we may not be too defensive to that. if certain things are not resolved, we will become a failed state. but we are notjourneying towards that direction. but the reality is that if you are a young south african reaching adulthood today, you only have a one—in—two chance of actually finding a job. 50% of young people are out of work. a state should be able to provide work for its people, should ensure that the economy functions. we have a south africa today where 60% of your people are living under the poverty line. people living under the poverty line is a reflection of the state of the economy that has been battered, both informed by global

features of the economy that is fluctuating at an international level, which has had an impact on our own economy, but also partly some of our own weaknesses in terms of managing the economy well. we are under recovery. and objectively, the covid—19 messed up a lot of countries. the ukraine/russia war in itself has shattered most economies in the world and it has brought a high level of cost of living and a number of challenges that have affected adversely the developing nations. so some of the features that we see in terms of the economy of south africa are not immune to us only. if you look at the state of unemployment in europe, in some of the advanced economies, it is ea rth—shattering. yes, nothing like it is here, though. and, mr secretary general, we have to face one simple fact.

your party, the anc, has been in powerfor 29 years, and you quite literally cannot even keep the lights on in this country. we have been in power for less than 30 years. and in that... three decades, and you can't keep the lights on. from 300 years of depravation and a mismanaged country and economy. we have been able to cushion our people from the worst in these 30 years, and we still regard ourselves as a young democracy. i can tell you, for an example, we have connected more of our people to the grid like never before and small businesses in this country, where even people in the deep rural have never had an opportunity to have a taste of what is it to live

with an electricity. but what they are living with today across this country... it's a load shedding that we are going to crush and defeat... yes, you call it load shedding. it basically means the power is out. where we are sitting in headquarters right now, the power was out until literally five minutes ago. it's going to go out again late this afternoon for another two and a half hours. people in your country are going to go home from work tonight, they're going to sit in their homes and they are going to sit in candlelight with no power. are you not ashamed that after three decades in power, controlling eskom, the power company, which is a state—owned enterprise, are you not ashamed that this is the reality? can i explain to you, the problem of south africa's load shedding is a challenge of demand and supply. we did so much for this country connecting businesses and our people to the power grid, and we did not balance

that with infrastructure development as the long—term strategy, and that has actually affected us. but it doesn't mean that we will not get out of it. yeah. the former president, thabo mbeki, has said that for years and years and years, eskom, which is a state—owned enterprise, told the anc government that without massive investment in the energy sector, they would not be able to provide enough power for this country. at the time, mbeki says the anc refused to listen. he said recently, "eskom was right. we in the anc were wrong." you have to own this crisis. what i'm saying to you, it might not be sufficient for you to understand when i talk about an imbalance in terms of energy supply and demand that did not balance with the roll—out of

infrastructure development. we have built power utilities, but we did not refurbish some, and that coincided with our plans in terms of addressing the just transition. decommissioning some of the utilities also has affected the progress that we seek to make to maintain the lights on. but all of that has now been addressed and has been attended to. yeah, you say this is all being addressed. south africans would only wish that were true. the acting ceo of eskom said the risk of stage eight outages this winter is extremely high unless things change, and right now they don't look as though they're going to change. what they have said to us and the plan that they are implementing to address the surge of winter power failures, they will stabilise that through diesel. but we're not looking at short—term measures.

we're looking at the totality of things that we need to do to solve this problem of load shedding. the renewables. how do we deal with that? but how do we also deal with the capacity which we've got of nuclear? and then how do we deal with the question of maintenance and refurbishment of our plants? and that is what is important. mr secretary general, you're not being straight with the south african people. you said just hours ago... i am very straight. ..that this problem will be solved by the end of the year. there is not one person inside eskom, inside the energy sector, who believes that to be true. indeed, the chair of eskom said just a few months ago this will continue for the next two years. we have given, government and all our ministers, that not even before the end of the year, everything must be done to do away with load shedding. that's what we have said.

and if that in terms of our projection could happen before the end of the year, we are happy about that. this load shedding has just made a mess of our country and projected us as something else. it's costing you, according to your reserve bank, it's costing you at least 2% of gdp. absolutely. you can't afford that. we can't, we can't afford that. and that is why we are focused in terms of dealing with it. it is an achilles heel. and i can't tell you tonight or any time that this is an easy matter for our government. surely, after covid—i9, this is the biggest challenge that has actually faced us internally. it's very candid of you to say this is an achilles heel, because achilles heels tend to bring people down, and if this continues, it will bring the anc down, won't it? it will affect the fortunes of the anc to reduce

the outright majority. it will, if ever it is not dealt with decisive, it will affect, but it will not take anc totally out of power. mr secretary general, isn't the truth that this load shedding crisis is going to have such a damaging impact on the anc because it not only reveals strategic incompetence going back decades, but it also reveals systemic corruption? andre de ruyter, the former ceo of eskom, he has said that organised criminal cartels have been operating inside the state—owned energy company. he says that the anc knows about it. 0ne senior minister acknowledged it to him and said, to paraphrase him, that the comrades have to eat. and another senior figure inside the ruling party, according to mr de ruyter, was actively involved in the systemic corruption.

the less said about de ruyter, the better. because... because it's too embarrassing. no, he should be telling us that these are the steps he has taken. the minister is not the minister of the maintenance of law and order and the maintenance of justice in this country. but if he reports systemic criminality linked to the anc, don't you want to know about it? all he could do that is best in terms of dealing with the challenges that are facing eskom was to write a book which is not conclusive, all in all, including giving us... that is why i've taken him to court and i'm suing him, not for money, but for saying to him, bring what you say to the fore, because you failed as an agent of the law. the position that you occupied to take that matter to law, because there are laws in this country that require him as a chief executive officer not to seek permission

from a politician, but to take it to law enforcement ministers. he told ministers, he certainly told mr pravin gordhan, public enterprise minister... minister gordhan is not the minister of police or even commissioner of police. he is a minister. and if minister gordhan could be implicated in corruption or any other minister, why will the writer go and report him to a politician and not report to his counterparts, everybody, and say, "help me, there is corru ption" ? you just mentioned... that's what i'm saying. on behalf of the anc. and you... i'm not interested in his shenanigans about posturing and all of that. all right. it doesn't matter. the basic point that the south african people are interested in is who is on the take, who is corrupt

inside the government. and what we know, not from mr de ruyter, but what we know from the zondo commission, which has been painstakingly looking at this so—called state capture, where money from... ..that should go to help the people of this country build a better country is being siphoned off by criminals and their partners in government. what we know is that 14 billion rand of eskom contracts went to state capture, to criminality. we know that 41 billion rand was looted from transnet, the main transport state—owned enterprise by state capture. this is not for discussion. the zondo commission has investigated and that's what it found. who established the zondo commission? it's the anc. asa mea... you expect credit... you expect credit for that? ..as a measure of fighting corruption. i don't expect credit for that. i'm saying do not be economic with your projection

of the past as though it was not dealt with. that's the problem you people are all about. "there was zondo commission, it simply fell from the sky. it happened on its own. the anc was just folded arms and allowed corruption to deal with." can a failed state do that? to establish a commission to fight corruption and learn from it? so you tell me... let me tell you. ..senior figures inside the anc... the figures... ..who have been brought to justice. have you been... have you been told... i can't give you now the numbers. how many billions have been covered through forfeiture units, which has been beefed up in the fight against state capture and getting money that has been stolen as a result of corruption in this country. as we speak, you're not emphasising that. correctly so, the report of the zondo commission does say those things. but who established the zondo commission? it's the anc.

where are the big fish in the government and the anc who are currently behind bars for systemic corruption? the work in terms of this commission has just ended a year ago. law enforcement is... a lot of resources have been injected into law enforcement. special investigations to investigate this corruption have been undertaken. the guptas have run away from this country. we are still fighting the extradition from dubai. are you also aware of the degree to which overseas investors are now turning away from south africa? neal froneman, the ceo at sibanye—stillwater, which i think is the biggest employer in the mining sector in south africa, he says business investment in south africa is on strike. investors now are very negatively disposed to this country.

they've lost faith and they've lost trust. for outside investors, they look at the foreign policy, diplomatic orientation of south africa, they see that right now, you are locked in a tense dispute with the united states, because the us sees you as deeply sympathetic to vladimir putin's russia, despite the russian all—out invasion of ukraine. we have explained those issues. 0ur government is dealing with those matters with the united states of america. we are not locked in any dispute of any form, and we are non—aligned when it comes to the conflict in russia. and that is the line we're pursuing. well, for a start, the us ambassador here in south africa said that he had evidence that weapons had been loaded onto a russian... i met with him yesterday. he apologised for being overzealous and saying things that he shouldn't have said. yeah, you say he's apologised — we have not heard him himself issue an apology. well, i am saying to you he has apologised.

i met him right here in the revolutionary house yesterday. your government has launched an investigation about that alleged weapons shipment. correct, it is correct. can you categorically guarantee to me here and now, as the head of the anc, that no weapons were put on board that vessel? 0ur government has reassured the anc that there is nothing to the truth about weapons being exchanged between our country. i phrase my question carefully — can you now categorically say no weapons were put on board that russian ship? i—i've explained to you that... ..there is action that has been taken by our government in terms of investigating. south africa is a treaty member of the international criminal court. if putin comes here in august as planned, your government will be obliged to arrest him as head of the anc. do you believe your government

should, and indeed will arrest vladimir putin? if it was according to the anc, we will want president putin to be here even tomorrow. you would? to come to our country. but... you would welcome vladimir putin here, right now? of course we will. a man who is being investigated for war crimes by the international criminal court? we would welcome him to come here as part and parcel of brics, but we know that we are constrained by the icc in terms of doing that. putin is a head of state. do you think that a head of state can just be arrested anywhere? how many crimes have your country committed in iraq? how many crimes have everyone else who's so vocal today committed in iraq and afghanistan? have you arrested them? you know the impact that this stand of yours... you're making a lot of noise about putting a state of working for peace between ukraine and russia, and you failed to resolve the war. where are the weapons of mass destruction? tony blair went to iraq

and claimed that there were weapons of mass destruction. do you see anybody standing against that in the united kingdom and britain? more than, er, millions of people have died in iraq and afghanistan, and there were no weapons of mass destruction. we know what the war is about... mr secretary general. ..between russia and ukraine. we want peace, that's what is important, so that the world can thrive. and organs and institutions of the world that institute world peace must not be conspicuous by their silence in deciding decisively... we don't have much time left. ijust want to bring it back to domestic south african politics before we end. you acknowledged with me very candidly that the load shedding is causing real political damage to the anc — you called it an "achilles heel". you know the opinion polls show that the anc right now is sunk well below the 50% mark in terms of support,

which means in the 2024 election, it is highly likely you will not win a parliamentary majority. you're probably, if you can rule at all, going to have to rule by coalition. are you looking atjulius malema's economic freedom fighters as a partner for the anc after 202a? i've been heading anc elections now for over a decade. i've never gone to an election where the polls have been positive about the incumbent. because of the sense of incumbency, you will always be affected negatively by the polls. well, forgive me, but in previous elections, the anc has polled 60—70%. this time, you're at the low 40s. no, we didn't. we were favoured by the fortunes, ourfortunes in the elections, because we had a new president. but the anc polled below 50 in the last election, and even before that election.

who we will work with in the election going forward, in terms of this country, we as the anc, we are not working to achieve the result of a coalition. and just one more question about malema. his manifesto commitments are quite clear. he'll tell south africans, if they vote for him, he is going to confiscate land without compensation. he's going to nationalise key industries, including the mines and the banks. if you are to do a deal with malema, you will have to consider whether you're prepared to take on his programme. we don't have dealings with anybody, and we aren't looking at deals in 202a. we are working very hard for our people, because we draw our mandate from our people. the dealings with anybody have not worked, in terms of the local government elections and the coalitions, and that is why we have

adopted the framework that must guide us. most of the coalitions in this country have collapsed, and that is why, as the anc, we have been working with the framework of stabilising the commission — i mean, the coalitions in the hung municipalities, and south africans can see for themselves that coalitions don't bear any fruit. i'm sure you'd agree with me that democracy is all about accountability. it gives people the right to hold their leaders to account. after 29 years with the state south africa is in today, where you literally can't even keep the lights on, do you think that you in the anc deserve — deserve — the continued support of your people? in those 30 years, we have connected our people to the grid. we have guaranteed and given our people social security.

we have given our people decent housing. we have faltered on electricity which is load shedding — our single biggest demand for our people and our economy, and we are going to solve it. undoing the misrule of 300 years, in 30 years, we have done so much. and yet, we are defined by one single issue. we will defeat that issue. as the african national congress, we are determined to ensure that load shedding is something of the past. it does not erode everything good that we have done. not that in that 30 years we did nothing wrong — we did falter, we made mistakes, we did veer away — we accept. and that is why we are determined to come back. we renew ourselves. we change things. we fight corruption. we fight even the possibility of degenerating

to a failed state. that's what we are determined to do as the anc. and we have to end there, but, fikile mbalula, i thank you very much for being on hardtalk. thank you. thank you very much. hello, there. some of you may have seen the fabulous halo effect around the sun on sunday evening. it was caused by thin, high cloud made up of ice crystals — and, just like a rainbow, you can get a double halo effect. there'll be some of that high cloud around on bank holiday monday. for much of the country it is going to be a dry and sunny day. but it'll be a chilly start

and there could be some cloud coming in off the north sea through the midlands and eastern parts of england. it'll break up through the day with some sunshine coming through. away from the far north of scotland, there will be a lot of sunshine. it's going to be strong sunshine, as well — high uv levels for many of us on monday — and that sun could be quite deceptive when it breaks through in the south—east because there'll be a cooler, stronger wind blowing in here, and it'll be windy through the english channel. maybe a bit cooler in the south—east, as well, but further north and west, it's going to be warming up — temperatures back up to 20 or 21 celsius in north—west england and scotland. and bank holiday monday will be dry because we've still got high pressure in charge. to the south of that high pressure, there's still some stronger winds across southern parts of england, and by tuesday there's more cloud in the north sea. with the wind off the north sea, we could see cloud lingering into the afternoon across some eastern parts of england. it's always going to be sunnierfurther west, it's always going to be warmer further west, as well — temperatures widely into the low 20s, perhaps 2a degrees in glasgow.

a quick look at wednesday because there are some changes. there's more low cloud around for england and wales — it could linger in some places all day, keeping it somewhat cooler. again it's more towards the north—west where we've got the sunshine and higher temperatures, and at long last, we could reach 25 degrees in scotland. very unusual not to hit 25 degrees in may — the last time that happened was way back in 2013, when we reached 25 celsius onjune 6th. there were some quite chilly springs in the �*80s — �*87 in particular — we didn't reach 25 degrees until very late in june. we could hit the mid—20s again through thursday and friday, more towards the south—west of the uk. if you're wondering where all the rain's gone, it's in southern parts of europe — not great if you're holidaying in the mediterranean — far better to be holidaying here in the uk. that high pressure�*s not going anywhere — all week it looks like it's going to be fine and dry with some warm sunshine and some cooler winds in the far south.

since the conquest of everest —

wins the run—off vote for another term as the country's president. doing a deal on the debt limit — democrats and republicans reach an agreement to avert possible economic disaster.

and marking 70 years hello, i'm victoria valentine.