towards cloudy with more of a breeze towards the north sea coast. this area of high pressure continues to bring the drier weather. at north—easterly wind drag is the cloud off the north sea, and will continue to push west during the night. the cloud could be thick over a few spots of drizzle towards eastern counties of england. it will spread pretty much right across england and wales. scotland, northern ireland, north—west england see the best of the clear skies. it is here where will it will turn chilly. but no lower than seven or 10 degrees. it is the north—west corner that will see the best of the morning sunshine. mr clearing, and temperatures rising fast. the cloud will burn back towards the coast to apply today might linger across the midlands and eastern parts of england. it will feel quite cool there, with an onshore breeze, anywhere from shetland to the south—east, low to mid—teens. further west, the mid 20s, the central belt of scotland, low 20s

for northern ireland, the same across wales. as we head across thursday, a repeat performance. more cloud across northern and eastern areas. furtherwest, cloud across northern and eastern areas. further west, the best of the sunshine. again, the low 20s. we could see temperatures coming down a bit towards the end of the week. always out west we will see the high temperatures, most of the sunshine is we head through friday on the weekend. a little bit cooler and easier towards the east coast. take care. thanks, stav. and that's bbc news at ten — there's more analysis of the days main stories on newsnight with victoria derbyshire, which isjust getting underway on bbc two. the news continues here on bbc one — as now it's time to join our colleagues across the nations and regions for the news where you are. today's daytime strikes on kyiv mark a change of tactics — as does using so many missiles in recent days. there were a0 air launched

cruise missiles and 35 drones launched yesterday. there's speculation that they're trying to overhwelm ukraine's air defences — and there may be a political motive too, to remind ukrainians of russian power as they hope to re—conquer occupied lands in the south and east. the russian campaign definitely has military utility, because the volume of strikes that the russians are conducting risks exhausting ukrainian air defence missile systems, and that would open up opportunities for the russian air force to start operating in ukrainian skies. the ukrainian response so far i think is merely to point tout to russians we can do this to you too, so it is the russians launch a variety of weapons, from a variety of directions, each with their own characteristics. the ukrainians try to match each of them with the right defensive weapons. so ccruise missiles fired by russian

warships in the black sea, being relatively slow and low flying, can be intercepted by fighter planes and anti—aircraft gun defences. air launched missiles can also be of the cruise type, like those launched yesterday, or the very much faster kinzhal — several of which were fired at kyiv two weeks ago. these so—called hypersonic weapons have to be engaged by the most advanced defences the ukrainians have — the us patriot system, a battery of which is stationed near kyiv. there are suggestions that in recent days iranian made drones have been fired at kyiv simply to goad ukraine into using up its precious stock of patriots. that's not particularly likely, since these drones fly so low and slow that an advanced missile like that wouldn't be wasted on them — but it's all part of russia's attempts to fire different weapons

from many points of the compass, often coordinating the timings so they arrive near simultaneously over a target, trying to overwhelm ukraine's defences. how exactly ukraine manages to defend its airspace, prioritising these different threats with the mixture of soviet era and western equipment at their disposal is one of the great untold stories of this war. it is not a mystery to everyone, but i think it's a fairly sensitive topic in terms of how they integrate the capabilities but i would note that ukraine manufactured a lot of

systems themselves and they have many, many skilled air defenders but also engineers who understand radar, so their ability to plug and play with different radar systems is something their own defence industry was established at before and ukraine has also, apparently been responding in kind to attacks on its capital. yesterday, the head of ukrainian military intelligence warned "those who tired to intimidate us, dreaming it would bring some effect wll regret it very soon". in moscow this morning, a series of explosions, and apparent footage of drones being used to attack targets in russia's capital. as with the attack on the kremlin early this month, which american intelligence believes was carried out by ukraine, it's the symbolic value of striking the russian capital that counts for more than the actual explosive effect. but the real question now concerns the skies over ukraine, and whether the russians can maintain the current bombardment for longer than ukraine can defend against it — in other words who runs out of missiles first? as ukraine finally runs out of its main soviet—era missile systems, it will have to husband new, western supplied ones very carefully. so is this a change in the dynamic of the conflict?

let's discuss this further with a former foreign minster of russia, andrei kozyrev, and the conservative chair of the defence select committee tobias ellwood. thank you very much for talking to us, andrei kozyrev as a muscovite yourself, what did do you think help yourself, what did do you think help you saw the drone attack on the capital? i you saw the drone attack on the caital? ., ., ., , , capital? i am of two minds, i still think that capital? i am of two minds, i still thinkthat it— capital? i am of two minds, i still think that it is — capital? i am of two minds, i still think that it is possibly _ capital? i am of two minds, i still think that it is possibly just - capital? i am of two minds, i still think that it is possibly just a - think that it is possiblyjust a false flag operation, it is like fire, if you remember the history, thatis fire, if you remember the history, that is when there was a fire in rake stag, and then hitler used it to stir up the hysteria in germany and all that, so, —— in the reichstag. that is what they do,

they organise provocations, against themselves, and even if some property destroyed in russia or couple of russians, a lot of russians are get killed during a provocation like that, they don't, they don't bother, i mean, they have what is called the canon fodder, unlimited actually, so that is what they do on the front, and that is what they can do back there. but putin needs something to stir up the hysteria to mobilise because mobilisation needs with, it is not opposition, but a reluctance by many russians, to go to the front. they probably support under the propaganda pressure, the war, but they don't want to go into the

trenches. they don't want to go into the trenches-_ they don't want to go into the trenches-— they don't want to go into the trenches. , ., , ., , trenches. 0k. let me bring in tobias ellwood, to — trenches. 0k. let me bring in tobias ellwood. to see _ trenches. 0k. let me bring in tobias ellwood, to see if _ trenches. 0k. let me bring in tobias ellwood, to see if you _ trenches. 0k. let me bring in tobias ellwood, to see if you agree, - trenches. 0k. let me bring in tobias ellwood, to see if you agree, do - trenches. 0k. let me bring in tobias ellwood, to see if you agree, do you | ellwood, to see if you agree, do you believe it's a false flag operation by russia? believe it's a false flag operation b russia? ~ , , , believe it's a false flag operation by russia?— believe it's a false flag operation b russia? , _ ., �* ~ ., by russia? well we simply don't know if it is a false — by russia? well we simply don't know if it is a false flag _ by russia? well we simply don't know if it is a false flag operation, - by russia? well we simply don't know if it is a false flag operation, it - if it is a false flag operation, it is a sign — if it is a false flag operation, it is a sign of— if it is a false flag operation, it is a sign of desperation by putin, this war— is a sign of desperation by putin, this war has _ is a sign of desperation by putin, this war has not gone well for him, from _ this war has not gone well for him, from the _ this war has not gone well for him, from the initial invasion, everyone to this _ from the initial invasion, everyone to this point, he is losing about 500 casualties a day. it could also be a separatist movement, that is operating — be a separatist movement, that is operating in russia, that is also not good — operating in russia, that is also not good news for putin, and the third _ not good news for putin, and the third possibility is this was indeed an third possibility is this was indeed ah attack— third possibility is this was indeed an attack by ukraine, this is a 150 miles— an attack by ukraine, this is a 150 mites from — an attack by ukraine, this is a 150 miles from ukrainian border, which shows— miles from ukrainian border, which shows that — miles from ukrainian border, which shows that ukrainians are getting bolder. _ shows that ukrainians are getting bolder, more aterse sieve —— assertive. _ bolder, more aterse sieve —— assertive, confident to take on the third largest army in the world. it is all_ third largest army in the world. it is all leading to a kinetic crescendo, because the major counter offensive _ crescendo, because the major counter offensive is— crescendo, because the major counter offensive is taking place, if

ukraine _ offensive is taking place, if ukraine isn't able to show progress there _ ukraine isn't able to show progress there will— ukraine isn't able to show progress there will be voiced in the west, calling _ there will be voiced in the west, calling for— there will be voiced in the west, calling for talks to begin peace discussions to take place, that is what _ discussions to take place, that is what china — discussions to take place, that is what china would like, if it doesn't io what china would like, if it doesn't go weit— what china would like, if it doesn't go well for— what china would like, if it doesn't go well for putin, i expect he will take this — go well for putin, i expect he will take this war into darker places as it did _ take this war into darker places as it did in _ take this war into darker places as it did in syria, using chemical weapons, _ it did in syria, using chemical weapons, potentially attacking a nuclear— weapons, potentially attacking a nuclear power station as a false fla l nuclear power station as a false flag attack. nuclear power station as a false flag attack-— flag attack. andrei kozyrev, i wonder if _ flag attack. andrei kozyrev, i wonder if you _ flag attack. andrei kozyrev, i wonder if you think _ flag attack. andrei kozyrev, i wonder if you think what - flag attack. andrei kozyrev, i wonder if you think what has | wonder if you think what has happened in moscow might start to change the opinion of people who live there, because this really is the first time this is the, the war has been brought to their doorstep? no, no, no. putin has a firm grip on power, and don't pay much attention to the, there are people like this this guy, you know, it is to

understand the russian traditions and how they behave. they always set kind of shows, that is why i am very suspicious that it's, the self heating operation, so to say, a false flag operation but it could be also ukrainian, though ukrainian draws hardly —— drones can hardly fly this kind of altitude and this kind of distance, so, i still tend to believe that it is a false flag operation, like that show about their position and all that, real opposition like navelny, they are in jail, they are not on tv.— jail, they are not on tv. tobias ellwood the — jail, they are not on tv. tobias ellwood the white _ jail, they are not on tv. tobias ellwood the white house - jail, they are not on tv. tobias ellwood the white house as i jail, they are not on tv. tobias | ellwood the white house as you jail, they are not on tv. tobias - ellwood the white house as you know

says it does not support attacks inside russia, the uk foreign secretary has said today ukraine has the right to projects for beyond its borders in order to undermine russian attacks do you think, do you detect some nervous innocence the west? ., ~' ., detect some nervous innocence the west? ., ~ ., ., west? no, i think we need to remain resolute and — west? no, i think we need to remain resolute and determined _ west? no, i think we need to remain resolute and determined to - west? no, i think we need to remain resolute and determined to supportl resolute and determined to support ukraine, _ resolute and determined to support ukraine, if— resolute and determined to support ukraine, if russia is firing into ukraine — ukraine, if russia is firing into ukraine from russian territory then it is right _ ukraine from russian territory then it is right that ukraine should be able to— it is right that ukraine should be able to respond and hit those targets, _ able to respond and hit those targets, at range, what we are seeing _ targets, at range, what we are seeing is — targets, at range, what we are seeing is greater political determination, courage if you like, rekindling — determination, courage if you like, rekindling our cold war stay craft skills _ rekindling our cold war stay craft skills to — rekindling our cold war stay craft skills to look putin in the eye and not blink. — skills to look putin in the eye and not blink. it — skills to look putin in the eye and not blink, it has take an while nor us to— not blink, it has take an while nor us to get— not blink, it has take an while nor us to get there, i am pleased to see it is britain— us to get there, i am pleased to see it is britain that has led us there, firstly— it is britain that has led us there, firstlv with — it is britain that has led us there, firstly with the laws, and then the training _ firstly with the laws, and then the training of— firstly with the laws, and then the training of the ukrainians on salisbury— training of the ukrainians on salisbury plain and now the long range _

salisbury plain and now the long range storm silo missiles and the f—16, _ range storm silo missiles and the ho. this— range storm silo missiles and the f—16, this will lead to that important counter offensive but if i could _ important counter offensive but if i could just — important counter offensive but if i could just add it won't be over with one counter— could just add it won't be over with one counter offensive, what we need to see _ one counter offensive, what we need to see is _ one counter offensive, what we need to see is ukraine gain terrain, moving— to see is ukraine gain terrain, moving forward but it may take three or four— moving forward but it may take three or four offensive to flush russia out~ _ or four offensive to flush russia out. ., ., ., i. ., , out. how long do you imagine this conflict will _ out. how long do you imagine this conflict will go _ out. how long do you imagine this conflict will go on _ out. how long do you imagine this conflict will go on for, _ out. how long do you imagine this conflict will go on for, if _ out. how long do you imagine this conflict will go on for, if that - out. how long do you imagine this conflict will go on for, if that is - conflict will go on for, if that is the conclusion?— conflict will go on for, if that is the conclusion? yes, that is really u . the conclusion? yes, that is really u- to the the conclusion? yes, that is really up to the west. — the conclusion? yes, that is really up to the west, it _ the conclusion? yes, that is really up to the west, it is _ the conclusion? yes, that is really up to the west, it is the _ the conclusion? yes, that is really up to the west, it is the amount . the conclusion? yes, that is really| up to the west, it is the amount of weapon system, mark was speaking about how russia is trying to test the will of ukraine, drain it of its air defence missile system, we are plucking up the courage to give the necessary hard wear that is required for the job, necessary hard wear that is required for thejob, that necessary hard wear that is required for the job, that mustn't stop, don't forget that putin respects strength, he exploits weakness, if this fire isn't put out in ukraine as i have said, putin will wander in other parts of slavic europe and of course china will wade in, watching very carefully what is going on,

given what it has in its own interests in the south china sea as well. so there are precedents being set. the west must remain resolute in supporting ukraine and completing this, think we will see more of this determination, as nato meets for its annual summit.— determination, as nato meets for its annual summit. kinzhal, what do you annual summit. kinzhal, what do you any vladimir — annual summit. kinzhal, what do you any vladimir putin's _ annual summit. kinzhal, what do you any vladimir putin's game _ annual summit. kinzhal, what do you any vladimir putin's game plan - annual summit. kinzhal, what do you any vladimir putin's game plan will. any vladimir putin's game plan will be now. ., ., ., ., be now. the war of attrition, the war of terror. — be now. the war of attrition, the war of terror, and _ be now. the war of attrition, the war of terror, and i _ be now. the war of attrition, the war of terror, and i agree - be now. the war of attrition, the war of terror, and i agree with i be now. the war of attrition, the i war of terror, and i agree with what has been said before, absolutely, but the problem was that the west, nato, are losing this war, at this stage, because they are timid, they don't provide long range weapons, or except for the great britain and the deposition of the great britain,

unfortunately it is exclusive, it is, it is exemplary, but it is not the nato position, and it's small number of those long range missiles, so as long as this continues, that ukraine is denied the weapons to attack, becausejust remember, attack, because just remember, defence attack, becausejust remember, defence never leads to success in war, so there should be not only defensive weapons, but also kind of offensive weapons, not to bomb moscow, i doubt they want to bomb moscow, i doubt they want to bomb moscow, even in response to bombing of kyiv, but in order to hit where it comes from, you know, those drones, from russia, they are not

going from russia, itself, they are going from russia, itself, they are going mostly from the aeroplanes, and where the aeroplanes originate, they originate in sanctuary, the places far enough not to be hit, not to be stricken by to this ukrainian arsenal, so ukraine needs a long range weapons, and as long as topess are denied, the west is losing in ukraine. . ., are denied, the west is losing in ukraine. ., ,, , ., are denied, the west is losing in ukraine. . ~' , are denied, the west is losing in ukraine. ., , . i've been talking to the prime minister of estonia, which has a border with russia, kaja kallas, tipped by some as the next secretary general of nato. first i asked her about the attacks in moscow and kyiv. what is going on in kyiv is moscow's terror tactics that they do all the time to terrorise the people of ukraine and show

that they are not safe. and these are war crimes, meaning that targeting civilians is a war crime. what happens in moscow, of course, has to be investigated. what really happens in moscow. we have seen russia doing also false flag operations in order to justify their next steps. but we don't know. actually, we don't have enough information to say what is behind this. if president putin prevails in ukraine, would you expect your country, estonia, lithuania, latvia, poland, to be next? putin and kremlin has not changed its goals and the goals they have been very public about. first, ukraine and then further countries and further movement there.

but i must say that we are in nato and nato is a defence alliance. i mean, we have big allies like great britain who is our framework country here. and we are very grateful for all your support and work that you do here with a collective defence. we are part of nato and that's why i don't think that russia is taking this fight to really go to the war with nato. i think if we wouldn't be in nato we would be living through some really dark times right now. but we are. so you think that would stop president putin from any kind of incursion? they haven't changed their goals, not one single bit. what they are playing on is that the west will get tired and they understand that they are in this for the long haul and they are playing on us and our domestic problems kicking in first.

so that you have all the worries with high inflation, you have all the domestic worries that are coming in. so they are expecting that there will be some westerners who will offer them something. so, let's sit down. let's have some kind of peace talks. you know, ukraine should give away some territories. and if you think, then they actually win, because they have gained something that they didn't have before, and that means that aggression pays off. you walk away with more territories than you had before, and then it serves as an invitation to all the aggressors or would be aggressors in the world to use this, because it pays off, and we can't really have that option. but the west might get tired. i mean, that is a realistic prospect. we've got presidential elections in the us next year. no, absolutely. absolutely. that is why we really, really have to keep our unity

and we have to understand what is at stake here. if we get tired first and we let putin get his way, then there's going to be a pause of two years, three years, five years, but then it's going to continue in a much broader scale. so the price goes up with every hesitation, with every delay. and we have to keep this in mind all the time. i mean, a negotiated pause right now serves kremlin's interests. i want to ask you, finally, you must be one of the favourites along with uk defence secretary ben wallace, to be the next leader of nato. is that something you would want to do? well, it's highly unlikely that i would be offered such a job. i know that your defence secretary is one of the candidates, but we haven't really had those discussions yet. so what is important for us is that the next secretary general

comes from a country that that invests in defence, like the nato's defence pledge really says. i mean, ten years ago, 2014, every nato country agreed to spend at least 2% of its gdp on defence. and we are in 23 and there are few countries that have done it, and i think uk has done it. so this is something that is very important to us, because we are not talking about defence of, or helping ukraine, but we are also talking about building our own defence. and that's why every country has to take it very seriously. i mean, there are us elections coming. we don't know what happens after that. why do you say it would be very unlikely that you would be offered this? because... it is highly unlikely, i would say. foi’ many reasons.

and i think one of them is that i have been very vocal about these issues and i come from the eastern flank and although we have been in nato for 20 years, i think there are still some countries that are considered to be more eligible. but if you are offered it, you would obviously say yes? if i would be offered, then i would have to think about this. but so far there is no reason to get yourself sweaty over this! prime minister kallas, thank you very much for talking to newsnight. we appreciate your time. thank you. it's now two months since nicola sturgeon ended her eight years as scotland's first minister, the longest anyone has ever done thejob. for many people in her party it was a real shock. a decision they didn't see coming. but for some voters in particular, the change might feel bigger than for most.

bbc newsbeat�*s calum leslie has been looking at what young voters and activists make of the changed political landscape. this might not be the place where politics is really on anyone's mind. we are in the city that nearly nine years ago voted to make scotland an independent country by a bigger margin than anywhere else. dundee. 57% of voters here backed yes in 2014. it was nicknamed yes city by some campaigners, in a referendum where16 and 17 year olds were given the vote for the first time in the uk. and polls suggest people, like the fans here at the festival in their teens and early twenties, are most likely to back the idea now. not all of them by a long way, but whether they like it but whether they like her

or are glad to see her go, nicola sturgeon has been there since they were at school. if i asked you to name a scottish politician, who would you name? nicola sturgeon. nicola sturgeon is the only one i know. who would you name? humza yousaf! if i asked another scottish politician, who would you go for? well, i would have said nicola sturgeon, but i don't really know if that counts! it's a question luke won't struggle with. he's 18 and a member of the snp, who we've invited to be here. so when did you first become aware of nicola sturgeon? what's your first political memory of her? probably around brexit and the 2017 general election. she was down to earth and i think she actually understood what scottish people were thinking. i'd imagine when you think about the future and appealing to voters, after somebody that's been around for so long, having a police tent put up in the front garden, that's not in the plan, right? it's obviously not a great look. but the thing with the snp and with the yes movement is, you know, it's by the people, for the people. it's bigger than one person.

so far this year, 18 polls have asked about independence and broken down results for people under 24. they suggest support for a yes vote on average is about 20% higher among that age group. but others see an opportunity now to change those numbers. this is just down the coast at portobello in edinburgh, six in ten voters in this city voted no to independence back in 2014. amy lee works here for the labour party and even stood for election for them. for the labour party, for activists like you, how much do you sense an opportunity? i think there's a big opportunity because i feel like over the last couple of years we've got a lot of sort of personality politics. we've seen that with sturgeon, we've seen it with borisjohnson, and there's been a bit of a scramble for the next big personality. and i think it's been an opportunity for us to actually say, no, this isn't about personality, it's about values. it's about what you want to do with the country. i think that actually young people

are starting to see, well, actually, what does my future look like? what's my chance of getting a university? what experience have i had at school? is independence really the answer to that, or is there another way that we can go about it? but what about others on the no side? ewan's a conservative activist who used to be a councillor. do you think you appeal enough to those young voters, because it's a demographic that maybe your party's not always been associated with as much? yeah, i mean, ithink we've got a big task to do. i'm not going to pretend that lots and lots of young people at the moment are voting scottish conservative. we want more people to do that, and that's why we need to direct policies to young people that will benefit young people. what young people are looking for at the moment, many of them that i'm speaking to is they completely feel disenfranchised with all the political parties. back at big weekend are some of those voters. so what do they reckon? what would your priorities be? stuff that's going to benefit people our age. independence. independence, yes. independence. yeah. honestly, i can't tell you.

i want the best for scotland. for snp member luke, the answer to that is pretty simple. i think there's every reason to be confident going into the next general election, going into scottish elections. i think you can't take it for granted. you can't take votes for granted. but i think the snp is still in a really strong position going forward. and, you know, ithink humza's got what it takes. the president of uganda hasjust brought in some of the harshest anti—lgbtq laws in the world. same—sex relations were already illegal in the country but the new law goes further — now anyone convicted faces life imprisonment. the legislation also imposes the death penalty for so—called aggravated cases, which include having gay sex when infected with a life long illness including hiv, or with someone under the age of 18.

us presidentjoe biden described the passing of the law as a "tragic violation of universal human rights", urging uganda to repeal the legislation immediately. mr biden also said washington was considering "additional steps, including the application of sanctions and restriction of entry into the united states against anyone involved in serious human rights abuses or corruption". joining us now is fox 0doi, a former senior legal counsel to the president of uganda who was one of two mps from the governing party who voted against the law. tell our british audience what the effect will be on gay people in uganda of these new laws? in summary the anti-homosexuality _ uganda of these new laws? in summary the anti-homosexuality act _ uganda of these new laws? in summary the anti-homosexuality act 2023 - uganda of these new laws? in summary the anti-homosexuality act 2023 is - uganda of these new laws? in summary the anti-homosexuality act 2023 is a . the anti—homosexuality act 2023 is a blueprint for minority cleansing. it is a blueprint for genocide. it will be the most repressive and

oppressive piece of legislation ever passed in the world. it will drive the lgbt community underground and they will not be able to really access housing or education or public health. and probablyjust die out. it is the most discussing and repugnant piece of legislation. what repugnant piece of legislation. what do ou repugnant piece of legislation. what do you want — repugnant piece of legislation. what do you want for— repugnant piece of legislation. what do you want for example the uk to do, this country in 2021 gave £100 million in foreign aid to uganda, what you want the us to do? it is difficult to _ what you want the us to do? it is difficult to say _ what you want the us to do? it is difficult to say but _ what you want the us to do? it 3 difficult to say but my position is that the people who benefit from the financial assistance that we get from the uk or the us, the most vulnerable and probably deserving. so that assistance should continue.

we intend to challenge this law in a different way. we are going to go to court and this money will fight this and i still think that we can internally and locally fight that piece of legislation. so internally and locally fight that piece of legislation. 50 if internally and locally fight that piece of legislation.— internally and locally fight that piece of legislation. so if you go to the constitutional— piece of legislation. so if you go to the constitutional court you | to the constitutional court you think you will have a chance of having it and old? this particular piece of legislation shocks the conscience of every reasonable person, and the court of appeal reasonable people, with can illustrate that several sections of the law are inconsistent with the constitution, they are inconsistent

with uganda's treaty obligation. i don't know if the parliamentary speaker would describe herself as a reasonable person, she says this law will protect the court of appeal reasonable people, with can illustrate that several sections of the law are inconsistent with the constitution, they are inconsistent with uganda's treaty obligation. i don't know if the parliamentary speaker would describe herself as a reasonable person, she says this law will protect the sanctity of the family. "we have stood strong to defend the culture, values and aspirations of our people." that aspirations of our people." ". that is a very shave _ aspirations of our people." ". that is a very shave notice _ aspirations of our people." trust is a very shave notice tick and homophobic position, to take. and that position is reflected in many sections of the law, doesn't make it right. they provision of the law founded on notions like protection of the family, protection of our culture, which are basically useless concepts. culture, which are basically useless conce ts. culture, which are basically useless concepts. 0k. they can't stand the test of scrutiny. thank _ concepts. 0k. they can't stand the test of scrutiny. thank you - concepts. 0k. they can't stand the test of scrutiny. thank you very - test of scrutiny. thank you very much for _ test of scrutiny. thank you very much for speaking _ test of scrutiny. thank you very much for speaking with - test of scrutiny. thank you very much for speaking with us - test of scrutiny. thank you very much for speaking with us this | much for speaking with us this evening. we i appreciate your time, thank you. evening. we i appreciate your time, thank ou. evening. we i appreciate your time, thank you._ thank i evening. we i appreciate your time, i thank you._ thank you.

thank you. the edinburgh comedy awards have been integral to the edinburgh festivalfor almost half a century. they've recognised comics who've gone on to become household names — frank skinner, jenny eclair, hugh laurie. but there's a problem this year — the sponsor has puled its funding and so its future is now in doubt. what do you call a comedy festival without a comedy award? for this year's edinburgh fringe, this may not be a joke. for four decades, the edinburgh comedy awards, formerly known as the perriers after a previous sponsor, have been the most highly prized accolade on the british comedy circuit. i read some more of your poems again last night. they're so rare, so fine, so absolutely fantastic. laughter. fantastic. absolutely fantastic. they launched the careers of stephen fry, emma thompson,

steve coogan, jenny eclair, harry hill, and so many others. why, my dear, you're becoming really quite famous. people... people? but in recent years, the awards have struggled to find sponsors. with tv channel dave now out of the picture, the awards organisers are appealing to new backers. hello. good to be here. i was hoping more people would come. the crisis for the awards comes as critics like richard herring say the festival no longer offers the opportunity to break into the industry that it did when he first started performing in the �*80s. so with many comedians now using social media to get the attention of agents and tv bookers, will comedians still head to the fringe if there are no comedy awards to be won? let us talk to. and nica is also

here. the award is not happening this year but that is what we are here for, to make sure they do happen, we keep the continuity, we keep the focus of the buzz of comedy in edinburgh because add the edinburgh festival comedy has its moment, it doesn't get that anywhere else in britain. why does it needs the awards, shows could still go on? it why does it needs the awards, shows could still go on?— could still go on? it brings it into a centre, could still go on? it brings it into a centre. it _ could still go on? it brings it into a centre, it gives _ could still go on? it brings it into a centre, it gives everyone - could still go on? it brings it into a centre, it gives everyone to - could still go on? it brings it into | a centre, it gives everyone to talk about, it spotlights people who might not get found, because we literally do see absolutely everyone who is eligible, and in 2019, that was 757 shows, and ourjudging team saw over 175051 shows, that is —— i751 saw over 175051 shows, that is —— 1751 show, that is a hell of a lot

inclusion, that is people in venues no—one has heard of, on the free fringe, searching for the complete ditalent, particularly the merging talents. eii ditalent, particularly the merging talents. , ., ., ., talents. elf elf you were nominated, what difference _ talents. elf elf you were nominated, what difference did _ talents. elf elf you were nominated, what difference did it _ talents. elf elf you were nominated, what difference did it make - talents. elf elf you were nominated, what difference did it make to - talents. elf elf you were nominated, what difference did it make to you. | what difference did it make to you. it's a beautiful experience to feel like your— it's a beautiful experience to feel like your work has been recognised especially— like your work has been recognised especially when you are doing million — especially when you are doing million more subversive or alternative, my set wouldn't have probably— alternative, my set wouldn't have probably worked on a club set. the ability— probably worked on a club set. the ability to— probably worked on a club set. the ability to tour internationally, that is— ability to tour internationally, that is an _ ability to tour internationally, that is an exciting thing about the comedy— that is an exciting thing about the comedy awards in that incentives are key and _ comedy awards in that incentives are key and comedy is a huge part of our creative _ key and comedy is a huge part of our creative sector in the uk, and unlike — creative sector in the uk, and unlike any— creative sector in the uk, and unlike any otherart creative sector in the uk, and unlike any other art form, especially live art forms comedy doesn't — especially live art forms comedy doesn't get any fund, it is hard as an artist, — doesn't get any fund, it is hard as an artist, comic to apply for funding, _ an artist, comic to apply for funding, so to have the edinburgh comedy— funding, so to have the edinburgh comedy award to be dominant and drawing _ comedy award to be dominant and drawing so— comedy award to be dominant and drawing so much attention to the comedy—

drawing so much attention to the comedy industry, is really important. but i would say because the festival is growing at such a huge _ the festival is growing at such a huge rate — the festival is growing at such a huge rate the numbers have changed and the _ huge rate the numbers have changed and the styles are changing, i think with that _ and the styles are changing, i think with that the awards also need to adapt _ with that the awards also need to ada t. ., ., with that the awards also need to adat. ., ., , , ., adapt. you mean because there are so man . you adapt. you mean because there are so many. you talked _ adapt. you mean because there are so many. you talked about _ adapt. you mean because there are so many. you talked about over- adapt. you mean because there are so many. you talked about over 1,000 i many. you talked about over 1,000 shows, that is too many are you saying? shows, that is too many are you sa in: ? ., , shows, that is too many are you sa inc? ., , , ., saying? no, when it first started ou have saying? no, when it first started you have your— saying? no, when it first started you have your idea _ saying? no, when it first started you have your idea about - saying? no, when it first started | you have your idea about straight sand up, improve, comedy, you have multimedia artist, you have clown, you have a huge array of alternative artist, straight, stand up, etc and for them to compete for the same awards can, as much as it is really important, think there is now time to adapt and show the great variety of artists that we have. so more awards is what i would argue is probably better forer the sake of artists so they don't feel like if they go edinburgh and don't get nominated they are somewhat not valid which can be be a problem. you are sa in: valid which can be be a problem. you are saying we — valid which can be be a problem. you are saying we want the awards, we

'ust are saying we want the awards, we just want— are saying we want the awards, we just want more of them, here we are after 40 _ just want more of them, here we are after 40 years last year, this is a great _ after 40 years last year, this is a great time — after 40 years last year, this is a great time to have these kind of debate, — great time to have these kind of debate, because we are trying to do for the _ debate, because we are trying to do for the future is to make sure that the next _ for the future is to make sure that the next 40 — for the future is to make sure that the next 40 years happen, by changing _ the next 40 years happen, by changing ourfunding the next 40 years happen, by changing our funding model from the traditional— changing our funding model from the traditional one we have had. 50 traditional one we have had. ’ir traditionally traditional one we have had. 5r traditionally you have had a sponsor for a period of time who gives you 200 grand or whatever per year. yes. 200 grand or whatever per year. yes, and i 200 grand or whatever per year. yes, and i think--- — 200 grand or whatever per year. yes, and i think... is— 200 grand or whatever per year. yes, and i think. .. is that how— 200 grand or whatever per year. yes, and i think... is that how much - 200 grand or whatever per year. yes, and i think... is that how much you i and i think... is that how much you need? yes. — and i think... is that how much you need? yes, that, _ and i think... is that how much you need? yes, that, those _ and i think... is that how much you need? yes, that, those days - and i think... is that how much you need? yes, that, those days are i and i think... is that how much you i need? yes, that, those days are sort of ast. need? yes, that, those days are sort of past. sponsorship _ need? yes, that, those days are sort of past. sponsorship post _ need? yes, that, those days are sort of past. sponsorship post covid, - need? yes, that, those days are sort of past. sponsorship post covid, and | of past. sponsorship post covid, and i of past. sponsorship post covid, and iiust, _ of past. sponsorship post covid, and ljust, think— of past. sponsorship post covid, and ijust, think that is an obsolete model. — ijust, think that is an obsolete model, and having struggling this year has — model, and having struggling this year has brought that to a head, so it has— year has brought that to a head, so it has made — year has brought that to a head, so it has made us rethink about how we shape _ it has made us rethink about how we shape reshape the awards and how we fund them _ shape reshape the awards and how we fund them going forward. are shape reshape the awards and how we fund them going forward.— fund them going forward. are you not callin: out fund them going forward. are you not calling out for— fund them going forward. are you not calling out for new _ fund them going forward. are you not calling out for new sponsors - fund them going forward. are you not calling out for new sponsors we - fund them going forward. are you not calling out for new sponsors we are. l calling out for new sponsors we are. how is this — calling out for new sponsors we are. how is this different? _ calling out for new sponsors we are. how is this different? instead - calling out for new sponsors we are. how is this different? instead of - how is this different? instead of havin: how is this different? instead of having one _ how is this different? instead of having one title _ how is this different? instead of having one title sponsor -

how is this different? instead of having one title sponsor we - how is this different? instead of having one title sponsor we are| having one title sponsor we are looking — having one title sponsor we are looking for a number with different possibility you might get people sponsoring each award, the presentation, but the idea that one person— presentation, but the idea that one person takes ownership and puts their— person takes ownership and puts their name on it, whether it is perrier— their name on it, whether it is perrier as _ their name on it, whether it is perrier as it— their name on it, whether it is perrier as it used to be or fosters or dave. — perrier as it used to be or fosters or dave, that i think is over, and instead, — or dave, that i think is over, and instead, we _ or dave, that i think is over, and instead, we are asking for smaller amount— instead, we are asking for smaller amount of— instead, we are asking for smaller amount of money, and people particularly from the industry, i think— particularly from the industry, i think who — particularly from the industry, i think who have benefit, to get together, to make sure that this happens. — together, to make sure that this happens, because this is for the comedians — happens, because this is for the comedians and for them, to, to open as many— comedians and for them, to, to open as many doors as possible and provide — as many doors as possible and provide opportunity to bring new people _ provide opportunity to bring new people to — provide opportunity to bring new people to the audiences notice. | people to the audiences notice. mean, people to the audiences notice. i mean, everybody has the platform now of tiktok, that is your opportunity as a new comedian, that is where i watch a lot of comedy.— as a new comedian, that is where i watch a lot of comedy. depends what -e of watch a lot of comedy. depends what type of artist. — watch a lot of comedy. depends what type of artist. you — watch a lot of comedy. depends what type of artist, you have _ watch a lot of comedy. depends what type of artist, you have live - type of artist, you have live comedians and ten you have tiktok comedian, it is like comparing a progressal swimmer to a footballer, it is a different muscle you are use, and i choose not do tiktok and

insta because it is not the way i enjoy making my work, and the same with tiktok comedian might not want to do live work, it is about their choice, that is what i think is important about the edinburgh festival. during august comedy is the dominant focus, it doesn't get that enwill months of year, you have best show and best nominee, does that represent the types of comedy you are getting, no. taste that represent the types of comedy you are getting, no.— you are getting, no. we try to, the nomination — you are getting, no. we try to, the nomination include _ you are getting, no. we try to, the nomination include a _ you are getting, no. we try to, the nomination include a lot _ you are getting, no. we try to, the nomination include a lot of- nomination include a lot of different genres are, so we are inclusive — different genres are, so we are inclusive about that and it is great to have _ inclusive about that and it is great to have a — inclusive about that and it is great to have a spread of things to offer the public, — to have a spread of things to offer the public, saying you don't like stand _ the public, saying you don't like stand up. — the public, saying you don't like stand up, to you like sketch comedy, as you _ stand up, to you like sketch comedy, as you did _ stand up, to you like sketch comedy, as you did clowning and offer off that, _ as you did clowning and offer off that, but— as you did clowning and offer off that, but you are still saying you would _ that, but you are still saying you would like — that, but you are still saying you would like more awards to focus on the different genres. it does invent vice. there is a focus throughout _ it does invent vice. there is a focus throughout the - it does invent vice. there is a focus throughout the year. i

it does invent vice. there is a i focus throughout the year. and it aives focus throughout the year. and it gives validity _ focus throughout the year. and it gives validity to _ focus throughout the year. and it gives validity to the _ focus throughout the year. and it gives validity to the art _ gives validity to the art form, people do care about it, what i worry about, around this is not necessarily anything to do with the awards is putting artists under great pressure to deliver a show when they are not ready and compete against each other in a way that might not be helpful. i was lucky and this is the beauty of the fringe, i have been coming since i was 18, i wasn't wear of the awards until later and i spent my time developing so when i did a one woman production of swan lake in french which is financially unviable, but that was the show that got acclaim, that was the show that got acclaim, thatis that was the show that got acclaim, that is because i took a creative risk and it was appreciated, but artists are making work being pushed into it too soon. the artists are making work being pushed into it too soon.— into it too soon. the festival is about taking — into it too soon. the festival is about taking cray _ into it too soon. the festival is about taking cray sieve - into it too soon. the festival is about taking cray sieve risk i into it too soon. the festival is | about taking cray sieve risk and what _ about taking cray sieve risk and what happens you go back and get better, _ what happens you go back and get better, the key is, it is all about doing _ better, the key is, it is all about doing it — better, the key is, it is all about doing it live _ better, the key is, it is all about doing it live and not doing it live for two — doing it live and not doing it live for two or— doing it live and not doing it live for two or three minutes as you would _ for two or three minutes as you would on — for two or three minutes as you would on tiktok but you having to do 50 minutes _ would on tiktok but you having to do 50 minutes which is a very long time

to sustain. _ 50 minutes which is a very long time to sustain, and when