following warnings that al could lead to humanity's demise, an ai pioneer tells the bbc he feels lost about his life's work hello, i'm lewis vaughanjones, welcome to verified live, three hours of breaking stories and checking out the truth behind them. we start with the war in ukraine. in a minute, we'll speak live to the head of the un's nuclear watchdog. he has laid out proposals to ensure the safety of ukraine's zaporizhzhia nuclear plant. but first, an exclusive bbc interview with the former us military chief general david petraeus. he's in kyiv now and has met president zelensky. he says the ukraine upcoming counteroffensive could be, quote,

very impressive and says russia's operations over the winter largely failed. the us general petraeus commanded forces in iraq and afghanistan. he spoke to our diplomatic correspondent james landale. i believe we will see the results of true combined—arms effect, so tanks protected by infantry against anti—tank guided missiles, artillery keeping heads down, engineers reducing the obstacles, breaching the fortifications that the russians have established, air defence keeping the russians off the ukrainians, electronic warfare jamming the russians�* already inadequate command and control, all orchestrated by very good ukrainian command and control, and using drones over the russians to attack them in depth with the precision munitions that the us and uk and others have provided.

and this is going to break, i think, the front lines. where they will do this attack, i'm not going to speculate, although the ukrainians have said that their objective is to sever the ground lines of communications that enables the russians to go along the south—east coast into crimea. we achieved combined arms effect during the fight to baghdad, and it is terrifying for the enemy, and the difference this time from kharkiv last fall, where the ukrainians did carry out a very successful attack, is that when the lead elements culminate, after 72, 96 hours, as far as you can physically go, there are follow—on forces that will capitalise and exploit the momentum and continue this. and then i think you get the battlefield, you make it dynamic, the russians have to react, they have to move to re—establish

a defensive line somewhere in the rear of where they are, and where they were. and noting that on the russian side, this is a force that has been battered, that many of these units have been in constant combat for well over a year, they are not pulling units offline and reconstituting them, in other words replacing the losses of people and equipment, they arejust adding people to the front lines. that is not the way you produce a cohesive, coherent, well disciplined organisation, and i think therefore that is why they are going to crack, crumble and perhaps actually collapse. and then if you can get the russian defences really moving, then i think there are opportunities even more broadly. former us military chief general david petraeus. let's now turn to zaporizhzhia, and warnings about the risks to the nuclear power plant there, the largest in europe. the head of the un's nuclear watchdog, the iaea, says the security sitation around the plant is extremely fragile

because of continued military activity in the region. our reporter courtney bembridge is in the newsroom to talk us through the concerns. this is europe's biggest nuclear power plant, occupied by russia for more than a year, both sides accusing the other of repeatedly shelling it. before the more, it provided about 20% of ukraine's electricity and it was still operational until september last year, when power production was stopped. there are now concerned that heavy fighting around the plant could lead to a soviet nuclear accident, and his picture was published earlier this month by a local ukrainian official who said it shows people leaving the nearby towns. he said russia had caused a mad panic by telling people that they needed to evacuate. well, shelling is one concern, but the other is about overheating nuclear fuel, which would happen if the

power that drives the cooling systems here is cut off, and we have already seen that happen several times. in those instances, the plant was able to rely on back—up diesel generators, but if they were to fail, it could be disastrous. this is the warning from the head of the international atomic energy in to take a rafael grossi. there have been seven occasions when the site lost all off—site power and had to rely on lost all off-site power and had to rel y ., , lost all off-site power and had to rel y ., _ , lost all off-site power and had to rely on emergency diesel generators, which is, rely on emergency diesel generators, which is. as — rely on emergency diesel generators, which is. as you _ rely on emergency diesel generators, which is, as you know, _ rely on emergency diesel generators, which is, as you know, the _ rely on emergency diesel generators, which is, as you know, the last - rely on emergency diesel generators, which is, as you know, the last line . which is, as you know, the last line of defence against a nuclear accident, to provide essential cooling of the reactor and spent fuel. the last one, the seventh, occurred just one week ago. we are fortunate that a nuclear accident has not yet happened.— has not yet happened. another concern is _ has not yet happened. another concern is lack _ has not yet happened. another concern is lack of _ has not yet happened. another concern is lack of staff. - has not yet happened. another concern is lack of staff. before | has not yet happened. another . concern is lack of staff. before the more, there were around 11,000 people working at the plant. it is

now thought the number could be as low as 3500, and these are the people who maintain the back—up generators that are essential to preventing a full meltdown. all of this adds to concerns about the plant and adding to calls for it to be demilitarised immediately. you saw rafael grossi, the director—general of the international atomic energy agency, and i'm pleased to say that we can speak to him now, thank you very much for coming on the programme. thank you for coming on the programme, how worried are you right now? the programme, how worried are you riaht now? ~ ., , right now? well, we have been worried for— right now? well, we have been worried for more _ right now? well, we have been worried for more than - right now? well, we have been worried for more than a - right now? well, we have been worried for more than a year, | worried for more than a year, actually, but as you were describing, as you're reporting shows, the situation is not improving, now we are in the midst of what has been announced as a counteroffensive or preparations thereof, and this is what prompted me to multiply my diplomatic consultations, and i was yesterday, as i think was just shown,

consultations, and i was yesterday, as i think wasjust shown, in new york at the security council, where i explained the situation, and out laid out five basic principles that should be observed by all to avoid a nuclear accident.— nuclear accident. well, let's look at some of those principles - at some of those principles now. we may not get to all of them, but let's look at some of them now, we can show the first couple on screen now, the first one is no attack against the plant or launched from the plant. i don't think we need to elaborate on that, that is pretty self—explanatory and pretty self—expla natory and pretty worrying. self—explanatory and pretty worrying. the plant should not be used for the storage of heavy weapons is one of your principles. talk to me about that. is it your opinion that russia, which is of course in control of the plant, is a storing weapons there? hat course in control of the plant, is a storing weapons there?— course in control of the plant, is a storing weapons there? not that we have seen it. _ storing weapons there? not that we have seen it, but _ storing weapons there? not that we have seen it, but there _ storing weapons there? not that we have seen it, but there has - storing weapons there? not that we have seen it, but there has been - storing weapons there? not that we have seen it, but there has been a l have seen it, but there has been a lot of speculation about that, and of course with this possibility of

major military operations, i thought it was very important to establish clearly that a nuclear power plant should never be a place where you would put these systems to project force was seen from the other side, could make a military target of it. so the principles, as you have seen, are very clear, crystal clear. we are very clear, crystal clear. we are not, you know, into nice words, we are exactly describing what needs to be avoided. this is why i included it as one of the main thing is to avoid. i included it as one of the main thing is to avoid-— is to avoid. i say, let's take a look at a _ is to avoid. i say, let's take a look at a couple _ is to avoid. i say, let's take a look at a couple more - is to avoid. i say, let's take a look at a couple more things| is to avoid. i say, let's take a - look at a couple more things that you mentioned. power to the plant should not be put at risk, and that is what our reporter was just

describing as well, there must be reliable communication with the regulator and others. so let's pick up regulator and others. so let's pick up on a couple of those, this idea of power to the plant itself. why is that so important?— of power to the plant itself. why is that so important? exactly, it is an interestin: that so important? exactly, it is an interesting point, _ that so important? exactly, it is an interesting point, because - that so important? exactly, it is an interesting point, because some i interesting point, because some people think about nuclear power plants as places where you produce energy and put it on a grid, and why is it so important to receive power? well, this is crucial, because you have a very important cooling function. you know, nuclear reactors, when the nuclear reaction is produced, they are producing energy, they are operating at hundreds of degrees, they need to be cooled constantly, and when you lose this cooling function, then it is basically what happened in fukushima, where you lose the cooling, and then of course you have

a meltdown, explosions et cetera. so what has happened is that this is one of the most dangerous things, it has happened seven times already, seven times, the last one only last week, where the plant lost all feed from the grid, and therefore it had to be cooled through emergency generators. to be cooled through emergency generators-— to be cooled through emergency generators. and presumably that cannot carry _ generators. and presumably that cannot carry on. _ generators. and presumably that cannot carry on, because - generators. and presumably that cannot carry on, because the - generators. and presumably that i cannot carry on, because the more times that happens, the higher the risk. w , times that happens, the higher the risk. . . , . . times that happens, the higher the risk. , ., ., , times that happens, the higher the risk. , . ., , risk. exactly, and that is the last line of defence, _ risk. exactly, and that is the last line of defence, you _ risk. exactly, and that is the last line of defence, you know, - risk. exactly, and that is the last line of defence, you know, it - risk. exactly, and that is the last line of defence, you know, it is i risk. exactly, and that is the last i line of defence, you know, it is the last resort that you have, and it is only as good as the amount of petrol or whatever, fuel, you put into those. so it is unstable, it is not sustainable, and it should never happen. sustainable, and it should never ha en. �* ., sustainable, and it should never ha en. �* . ., sustainable, and it should never hauen. �* ., ., ., ~ sustainable, and it should never ha en. �* ., ., ., " ., happen. and we have to talk about the staff, because _ happen. and we have to talk about the staff, because there _ happen. and we have to talk about the staff, because there are - happen. and we have to talk about the staff, because there are lots i happen. and we have to talk about j the staff, because there are lots of concerns about the numbers of staff

there operating it and the stress they are under. this there operating it and the stress they are under.— they are under. this is a place that, they are under. this is a place that. under— they are under. this is a place that, under normal— they are under. this is a place - that, under normal circumstances, would be operated by about 12,000 people. now we are reduced to a few thousand, between 2000 and 3000 people. the situation is more or less manageable because at the moment, because of the more on circumstances, the plant is not producing electricity for ukraine or russia. so this minimal level of staffing can only be acceptable in this circumstances, but we are walking on very thin ice here. what walking on very thin ice here. what is our walking on very thin ice here. what is your relationship _ walking on very thin ice here. what is your relationship with _ walking on very thin ice here. what is your relationship with russia like? ~ , ., ., ., like? well, it is a relation based on practical _ like? well, it is a relation based on practical need. _ like? well, it is a relation based on practical need. they - like? well, it is a relation based on practical need. they are - like? well, it is a relation based on practical need. they are in i on practical need. they are in charge, they are in control of the

operation there... find charge, they are in control of the operation there. . ._ operation there... and are they aaivin operation there... and are they giving you _ operation there. .. and are they giving you full— operation there... and are they giving you full information? - operation there... and are they. giving you full information? they are, the giving you full information? they are. they are. — giving you full information? they are, they are, we _ giving you full information? they are, they are, we are, _ giving you full information? they are, they are, we are, as- giving you full information? they are, they are, we are, as an - giving you full information? tue: are, they are, we are, as an agency of inspectors and experts, we are asking to see and check as much as we can sometimes we have issues, we try to resolve them, so it is not an easy situation, it is not a normal situation, in any way. tqm. easy situation, it is not a normal situation, in any way.— situation, in any way. 0k, 'ust before i let i situation, in any way. 0k, 'ust before i let you i situation, in any way. 0k, 'ust before i let you go, i situation, in any way. 0k, 'ust before i let you go, one h situation, in any way. 0k, just before i let you go, one last i before i let you go, one last question on a newsline that is just coming to us, i am reading it is for the first time as i read it to you, the first time as i read it to you, the iaea, which is your body, says iran's decision to stop implementing its commitments under the 2015 nuclear deal has seriously affected its verification and monitoring of iran's nuclear programme, estimating that the total enriched uranium stockpile has grown by 983 kilograms since february. this

stockpile has grown by 983 kilograms since february-— since february. this is part of this onauoin since february. this is part of this ongoing situation _ since february. this is part of this ongoing situation that _ since february. this is part of this ongoing situation that we - since february. this is part of this ongoing situation that we have, i ongoing situation that we have, which is again, very unstable, you know that there was an agreement, the so—called jcpoa, which the united states withdrew from, and iran retaliated by ceasing to observe all the obligations in it, so basically what we have is an empty shell. there have been efforts to revive it, so far those efforts have not proven successful, and so we have a situation where iran is moving on with its nuclear programme. the agency is present there, we are expecting as much as we can, but of course at a reduced level. 0ne we can, but of course at a reduced level. one of the important aspects of that agreement was that it was giving the agency higher degrees of

visibility and inspection commensurate with the dimension of the nuclear programme. now we have lost it, and that is what is leading to a situation which is less predictable than it was, and concerns around the world. we are working with iran, we are trying to make them be as cooperative as they possibly can. but it is not easy. rafael grossi, thank you very much for your time. rafael grossi, thank you very much foryourtime. mt; rafael grossi, thank you very much for your time-— for your time. my pleasure, thank ou ve for your time. my pleasure, thank you very much- — here in the uk, rail workers are out on strike again. members of the train drivers' union aslef are strking over pay and conditions. members of the rmt union will strike on friday. the uk government has accused the unions of co—ordinating the strike action to disrupt major events. 0ur correspondent helena wilkinson was at paddington station earlier and gave us an update on what's been happening.

this long—running dispute has been going on since the summer of last year, so passengers are quite used to endearing train strikes, train strikes today, as you mentioned, it is train drivers who are members of the aslef union, around 12,000 train drivers are striking today. we are at paddington station, one of the busiest train stations in the country. you can see passengers behind us here. there are some trains running here, about one an hour, but that is really limited compared to what we would normally see on a normal weekday. we have also got the heathrow express, that is running as normal, and the elizabeth line. but terms of thousands of passengers affected by this strike today, and as we heard in that clip there, there doesn't seem to be any immediate sign of any resolution to this long—running dispute. we understand that there is nothing in the diary for both sides to come together, to talk, to try and resolve this,

but both sides say they are willing to try and negotiate. but from the language we are hearing from aslef, the union, whose members are striking today, it is pretty clear that there could be more strikes on the way. but in terms of this week, we have the strike today, then on friday members of the rmt union will be on strike, and then on saturday there is going to be another strike by members of aslef, so lots more disruption ahead. and as we have seen in previous strikes, it is notjust on the days of the strike action taking place that passengers face disruption, it is also the days often before and after, trains not in the right place, for example, so a lot more disruption ahead, and really no sign that the dispute is going anywhere in terms of getting any kind of resolution. thanks to helena wilkinson. around the world and across

the uk, this is bbc news. some other stories now developing in the uk. a british man has died reportedly after being struck by lightning as he was paddleboarding in the sea off greece. scott seddon from liverpool was taking part in watersports off the island of rhodes when a strike hit on tuesday, according to local reports. the foreign office said it was supporting his family and was in contact with the local authorities. parents on universal credit in england, scotland and wales will be able to claim hundreds of pounds more to cover childcare costs from the end ofjune. the government says anyone receiving the benefit will be able to claim back £951 for one child and £1,630 for two or more children. that's a 47% increase. the president of the cbi is to step down earlier than planned as part of an overhaul of the leadership of the embattled business lobby group. brian mcbride is to start the search for his successor, with the handover due to take place in the new year. the organisation has been rocked by allegations of rape and sexual

assault against staff. you're live with bbc news. let's look at al now, artificial intelligence. one of the pioneers of the technology says he feels lost about his life's work. he is the latest top expert to warn about its potential dangers. he says he would have prioritised safety over usefulness if he'd realised the pace at which artificial intelligence would evolve. the us secretary of state antony blinken, seaking a short while ago at a european trade and technology summit in sweden, said that the discussions would have an important role to play in helping establish voluntary codes of conduct that would be open to all "like—minded countries." had a very intensive and i think a

productive discussion on artificial intelligence today, including generative ai. i think we share a conviction that we have an important role to play in helping to establish voluntary codes of conduct that would be open to all like—minded countries, particularly because there is almost always a gap in new technologies emerge between the time at which those technologies emerge and have an impact on people and the time it takes for governments and institutions to figure out how to legislate or regulate. live now to london and we are joined by professor nigel shadbolt, leading researcher in al. he's also chair of the open data institute, which he started with tim berners—lee, founder of the world wide web. thank you very much for coming on the programme. wejust heard talks gathering pace about regulation, regulation is not going to be easy, is it? ., , , ., is it? no, but it is something that i think a is it? no, but it is something that i think a lot _

is it? no, but it is something that i think a lot of _ is it? no, but it is something that i think a lot of people _ is it? no, but it is something that i think a lot of people are - i think a lot of people are exercised by. i mean, the letter that you referred to talking about al as an existential threat, that ai as an existential threat, that raises the stakes here, but it seems to me that this is always the case with technologies when they are dual use. so physics gave us wonderful developments, nuclear physics gave us about the ability to heat our homes and build an atomic bomb, biological science gave us biological science gave us biological weapons, chemistry gave us chemical weapons, and the danger is that al is weaponised by bad actors, which we should be properly fearful of. but i think what is different at the moment is this whole new explosion of interest around generative ai, these agents that seem to go beyond what we have seen before. saying that, we should recognise that there is lots of ai routinely deployed in our mobile phones, which recognises ourfaces and listens to our speech and can understand it, and that has become

unremarkable, although when it was first introduced, people were concerned about the various ethical and legal limits on what we could do without. i think we are at that place now with generative ai. that really interesting, _ place now with generative ai. that really interesting, in _ place now with generative ai. that really interesting, in terms of whether these warnings are being overblown, we have spoken to some people who think there is talk of existential threat to humanity, the chances are so small that it is not particularly worth bothering with. on the other side, people saying, 0n the other side, people saying, humanity was a bit slow when it came to climate change warnings, slow when it came to pandemic warnings, we need these warnings right now to take action. , ., ., ., take action. there is quite a lot of fud around. _ take action. there is quite a lot of fud around, fear, _ take action. there is quite a lot of fud around, fear, uncertainty - take action. there is quite a lot ofj fud around, fear, uncertainty and doubt, and there are real differences of opinion around the longer term threads. i think it is the immediate impact we should be looking at, which is why we are arguing at our institute in oxford,

and also at the open data institute, we are arguing for the promotion of data ethics and around the deployment of ai, notjust something for ethicists to think about, we have to be teaching these principles to computer scientists and people who designed the methods. we have to have a conversation with the wider public, big issues like this have got to have big conversations around them, and we are seeing that happen. they are happening in certain countries, sure, but we had a warning just in the last hour that china is, just as an example, hugely advanced when it comes to ai and there is no guarantee that if we think of the ethics and put in certain rules, that the same thing will be applied around the globe. no, but we shouldn't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. it is important that we try to get as wide a coalition as we can, that we think about what, in a certain sense, acceptable standards and guardrails might be that wouldn't necessarily be inimical to a whole range of

government institutions. they may get deployed in different ways, but it shouldn't stop us trying to build coalitions to see what can be achieved, and i think this is exactly what we have seen in large dual use technologies of the past, and of course it doesn't always work out perfectly, but we can begin to see momentum towards that, and i think is a very promising start that we are taking these issues seriously. we are taking these issues seriously-— we are taking these issues seriousl . �*, , .,~ seriously. let's 'ust take it right u . seriously. let's 'ust take it right u- to seriously. let's 'ust take it right up to date. — seriously. let's 'ust take it right up to date. |_ seriously. let'sjust take it right up to date, i suppose, - seriously. let'sjust take it right up to date, i suppose, we - seriously. let'sjust take it right up to date, i suppose, we have| up to date, i suppose, we have talked of the long—term potential threat, let's talk about the next six months, one year, two years. what... we will not hold you to this! but what, in your view, what... we will not hold you to this! but what, in yourview, is what... we will not hold you to this! but what, in your view, is the way we are going to notice it, ordinary, non—ai enthusiast, how will we notice it in the next couple of years? will we notice it in the next couple of ears? ~ ., will we notice it in the next couple of ears? . ., ., , of years? well, we are already exoeriencing — of years? well, we are already experiencing some _ of years? well, we are already experiencing some of - of years? well, we are already experiencing some of that - of years? well, we are already| experiencing some of that with chatgpt, the latest generative models have just been released chatgpt, the latest generative models havejust been released by the companies who have built them, not fully deployed yet, a system

called gpt—ii in fact, the next successor, there is a system from google which has just been released, and is a very powerful systems that are able to do a whole range of tasks, from summarisation to the most exquisite translation between languages and idioms, in languages that have also been underrepresented and underserved in the past. we will notice in our potential schools, and the way we teach and research, in the way we teach and research, in the way we do our daily tasks. are about to launch a co—pilot which is generative ai inside the tools that it uses in its microsoft products, and this will be helping to advise in meetings, helps adjust presentations, and actually advise on the content of your documents. and some of those particular developments will be welcomed by many people watching, i am sure. we have to leave it there, thank you very much for your time, thank you for coming on the programme. right,

stay with us, plenty more online, as always, but stay with us here, plenty more in the business news coming up as well. for the moment, though, thank you very much for your time. get me on social media, i am lewis vaughanjones, this is bbc news. bye—bye. we have got two types of weather across the uk today, and a tale of two beaches from our weather watcher pictures. barely a cloud in the sky in northern ireland, beautiful sunshine, but not like that further east, this is hornsea in east yorkshire, a lot of low cloud and feeling quite chilly. the satellite picture shows exactly where the cloud is at the moment, and i'm going to show you the winds 700 metres up in the atmosphere, blowing this cloud to you, you can see a lot more cloud still upstream in the north sea. the other thing is

the cloud is three times thicker than it was yesterday, that is important because it is much more likely to hang around. where you have sunshine heading into the afternoon, you will keep it all day, but the computers might be optimistic in breaking this thick cloud elsewhere across england, even parts of east wales might hang onto it all day, and in the midlands, 13—111, feeling chilly, but warm spots in the west of northern ireland, western scotland, 25 degrees, warm in the sunshine. heading into the night time, the cloud comes back in from the north sea, thickening as temperatures drop below 10 degrees, starting to get drizzle falling from the clouds, so again looking at a damp start to the day, probably quite extensive drizzle first thing in the morning. dry as we head through the morning and into the afternoon, most places will be dry, but keeping probably quite a bit of cloud across eastern coastal counties, a better chance of seeing the sunshine pop out further west, particularly for wales and the west midlands.

into friday, generally less cloud around, so more in the way of sunshine, and in thejune sunshine, that is a big impact on how the weather feels, looking at temperatures widely into the high teens or low 20s. what about the weekend weather prospects? high pressure is still there to the north—west of the uk, where it has been now for a large number of days, but feeding a lot of cloud from the north atlantic in the north sea, so something of an east—west split with western parts of the uk having the best of the sunshine, the highest temperatures, low to mid 20s in some spots, whereas further east you could see more cloud at times, and temperatures are more likely to stay generally into the teens. that is your latest weather, bye for now.

this is bbc news, the headlines. ukraine holding the front line against the kremlin's forces. a mother's love for her son, we speak to a ukrainian woman who crossed into russian occupied territory to save her child. and rail passengers across britain face fresh disruption and more than 12,000 train drivers go sport, and a full round—up from the bbc sport centre.