on five live and watch on can listen on five live and watch on bbc and the news channel. in my dressing room one day something happened, he said i kissed someone in the workplace which led to a little bit more, very different accounts coming from elsewhere of course. yes, this is about one of the biggest stars in the tv firmament over the last a0 years but also about workplace culture and accusations of grooming and manipulation, the inevitable question, who is being manipulated now? what is appropriate and what isn't? phillip schofield says nothing ahead of me now but blackness, sadness, regret, remorse and guilt. that is what we are discussing this morning. phillip schofield, your reaction. 08085 909693, the phone number. 85058, on the text. you can tweet us as well.

phillip schofield has told the bbc he's lost everything and does not see a future for his career. he says his affair with a younger colleague was consensual and that it was his fault. he's spoken for the first time since resigning from itv last week and has denied claims he'd groomed him. scientists say they're excited by the results of a trial of a blood test which can detect 50 different types of cancer. a study led by oxford university found it was able to correctly identify two thirds of cancers among 5,000 people. but researchers say it's not yet accurate enough to be rolled out.

science minister george freeman says the government is likely to lose its legal challenge against the covid inquiry. it's after the government said it would seek a judicial review over the inquiry�*s demand to submit borisjohnson�*s unredacted whatsapp messages. another rail strike is taking place today involving around 20,000 members of the rmt union. 0nly around half of normal services will run. england is worst hit but services running into scotland and wales are also affected. rail companies and the government say they've made fair pay offers. let us get straight into some of it right now. the bbc�*s amol rajan and phillip schofield, have a listen. you had quite the week.

how are you? um... ithink... ..i understand how caroline flack felt. last week, if my daughters hadn't been there, then i wouldn't be here. and they've guarded me... ..and won't let me out their sight. it's like a weird numbness. i know that's a selfish point of view. but you come to a point where you just think,

how much are you supposed to take? if all of those people write all of that stuff, do they ever think that there is actually a person at the other end? and so... ..here|am... yeah. are you feeling 0k to do this? are you feeling strong enough to do this interview? yeah, i have to. why? why do you want to do this interview? because there is an innocent person here, who didn't do anything wrong, who is vulnerable and probably feels like i do.

and ijust have to say, "stop with him. "ok with me, but stop with him. "leave him alone now." let me say, you know, a lot of my questions are going to be uncomfortable, and, let's face it, intrusive, but you've chosen this opportunity to tell your side of the story, and there are questions that your viewers, all the people who have supported you over the years, including your family, will want answers to. also of course lots of questions for itv in all this. you mentioned this young man, and at the centre of recent events is a young man who, together with many others in the media, we are not going to name. you know, under article eight of the human rights act, he has a right to privacy. and he's not here today to give his own account of events. when did you last speak to him? as i engaged the lawyer for him. so, he needed independent support, and so that was the last time. how concerned are you about his welfare right now? massively.

massively concerned. when did you first meet this young man in question? what were the circumstances? i was invited by a friend of mine to go to open a drama school. and that's where the picture was taken. whether it was immediately or sometime after, he said, "will you follow him on twitter?" because he's fan. so i said, sure, no problem. which i did. and he was, what, 15 at the time? yeah. and this is over a decade ago. but i follow... i follow 11,300 people, and in allthe time i've been on twitter, there has never been any whiff of impropriety. and how often were you in touch with him? hardly ever, hardly at all. he then said that he was interested in television. ok, you know, good luck, good luck. anything i can do to help, probably, is what i normally say.

and that was it for a while. and then he asked if he could visit the studios, work experience—type of thing. i said, come down, have a look, for sure. which he did. how old was he when he first said to you, i'm interested in television? was he 18 by that point? 19, 19 i would think. he was 19 by then. when you look back now, if you were to look back at those messages now, is there any sense in which you were flirting with him? no. i've been ai years in television. you know, nothing like this before. no accusations. this is all, you know, accusations. and then when you met him in person, was there a little moment of sexual attraction then, even? absolutely not. 0k. so, to be absolutely clear, how old was this young man when you first had any kind of sexual contact with him? 20.

i mean, this is obviously the nub of it, and for the record, and to put speculation to rest, let me ask you directly, did you have any kind of sexual relationship or sex with him when he was underage? no. god, no. i think that is, you know... in my statement, it says, you know, consensual relationship, fully legal. i mean, that was approved by both sides, you know? no, no. he'd been working at the show for... ..for a few months. and we'd become mates. we were mates, and around the studios, you hang out together, you know, you chat with each other, that sort of stuff. and then in my dressing room one day... ..something happened. which, you know, obviously, i will regret for ever,

for him and for me. mostly him. but that happened maybe four or five times over the next few months. and i know it's unforgivable. but we weren't boyfriends. we weren't in a relationship. i was really in a mess with my own sexuality at the time. and it just happened. how old was he at this stage? 20, 21. who knew on the team? nobody. to my knowledge. i mean, somebody has to know something for there to be a rumour later on.

i didn't believe that anybody knew. and did you ever tell holly willoughby? no. god, no. that's a bigger question, because we have... 0ur make—up room was like a sanctuary. has always been a sanctuary. so you tell everything in that room. holly knows everything about me, i know everything about holly. holly did not know. nobody knew. and you never told her? no, i didn't tell anybody. the reason this matters is because it is about potential abuse of power. i understand that, and that is a very, very valid question to put to me. and people would say, the circumstances are as follows here. you met someone who was a child. you were in a position of power over them. you used your power eventually to give them something they craved, which was a shot at a job in the media. you nurtured a relationship and then that relationship became sexual. and they might ask, what's the difference between that and grooming?

well, i would say that the initial list of things was not right anyway. tell me, why? because it was a totally innocent picture, a totally innocent twitter follow, of which i follow 11,400 people. and then it was a completely innocent backwards and forwards over a period of time about a job, about careers. what's wrong with talking to someone, no matter, you know, what age they are? does that mean if you are following anyone on twitter that you absolutely don't talk to anybody else, or you don't give advice? so i disagree with the summation that you just gave. because that does paint a very grave picture. do you know if he has signed an nda, a nondisclosure agreement, preventing him from speaking? no. you don't know? i don't know if he has. no.

did i make him sign an nda? no, absolutely not. there is a question whether or not he was, as it were, paid off. no. in effect, if he was paid off. no. was he paid for his silence? no, god, no. no. so is he free to speak if he wants to? yeah. yes. i mean, what he wants is for all of this to go away. he wants a quiet life. and just on a couple of points of information, just to be clear, you are currently, on an ongoing basis, you are paying for his legal advice and support? mm. has there ever been, or is there, an injunction or any sort of nda preventing media coverage of your relationship with him? no. why is all this coming out now, phillip? what was the catalyst? what changed ? it got too big. the lie got too big for both of us. it just got enormous. it was growing and growing and growing, and it crossed over from online to mainstream news. itv�*s position is that they, and they've only put out one statement about all of this, they say they investigated allegations of an improper relationship and they were told by both you and the young man that there was no relationship. in retrospect, was that investigation a sham

because it clearly didn't get to the truth, did it? i think if you have two people who are lying, then what can you do? what did that investigation amount to? was itjust a phone call to you and a phone call to the young man? was it a proper independent... i think he was asked quite a bit. i was asked a couple of times. and so... and it wasn't formal. is this the tip of the iceberg? are there more allegations and revelations to come, or as far as you're concerned is that all there is? it's my biggest, my biggest, sorriest secret. well, it has a very big story, many aspects to this to explore. just wanted to set out from the beginning we are not going to name the young man at the centre of events under article 8 of the human rights act, he has a right to privacy. he is not here to give his account of events. i want to make that clear. i know you know that. just to some people,

if you name the young man, problematic for us, extremely so for you. the bbc�*s amol rajan, hello. how are you? i you. the bbc's amol ra'an, hello. how wt you. the bbc's amol ra'an, hello. how are you? i am fine. extremely uncomfortable, _ how are you? i am fine. extremely uncomfortable, this, _ how are you? i am fine. extremely uncomfortable, this, but _ how are you? i am fine. extremely uncomfortable, this, but it - how are you? i am fine. extremely uncomfortable, this, but it is - how are you? i am fine. extremely uncomfortable, this, but it is a - uncomfortable, this, but it is a significant story. did he approach us or did we approach him? i called him last week _ us or did we approach him? i called him last week and _ us or did we approach him? i called him last week and other _ us or did we approach him? i called him last week and other people - us or did we approach him? i called him last week and other people at l him last week and other people at the bbc were in touch with people he knows and other people who i work with at the bbc were aware he was increasingly minded to do an interview, one with a tabloid newspaper, newspapers, one with broadcasters, so he did one with the sun, the front page today, and he did bbc news yesterday. i called him asking him, before i knew there was contact, i called him as a jobbing journalist to see if he would do it last week, but we had contact from

elsewhere within bbc news from people around him, so when people around him were saying, he might do this, the people i work with said, let's do this. bid this, the people i work with said, let's do thie— this, the people i work with said, let's do this-_ this, the people i work with said, let's do this. did you at any stage in the interview _ let's do this. did you at any stage in the interview especially - let's do this. did you at any stage in the interview especially when l let's do this. did you at any stage l in the interview especially when he drew the analogy with caroline flack and what happened to her, people have just heard that and seen that, if it wasn't for his daughters, he wouldn't be here, you said, to be fair, are you 0k to do this? did you feel at any time in the interview, i should not be doing this? i feel at any time in the interview, i should not be doing this?- should not be doing this? i didn't feel at any _ should not be doing this? i didn't feel at any point _ should not be doing this? i didn't feel at any point i _ should not be doing this? i didn't feel at any point i should - should not be doing this? i didn't feel at any point i should not - should not be doing this? i didn't feel at any point i should not be l feel at any point i should not be doing this, but the man who presented himself yesterday was in such an emotionally charged and agitated state, as we thought he would be, and actually when he turned up, he was significantly even more agitated than we expected, that really did weigh extremely heavily on the entire editorial approach we

took. no point at which we thought we shouldn't do it. you have spoken more sensitively and so graciously about mental health, but on specific aspects of mental health, we need to tread so carefully because of the way these things are covered. there were areas where it is true he spoke obsessively about mental health and as we had a bit of there the state of mind he is in and there were times when i was very mindful, as i have been for 15 years in the straight, of the reporting restrictions and guidance. that weighed very heavily but at no point did i think we shouldn't do this because for reasons you have explained yourself, this story does matter, it is about much more than celebrity gossip. to matter, it is about much more than celebrity gossip-— celebrity gossip. to be fair, i have the utmost _ celebrity gossip. to be fair, i have the utmost professional _ celebrity gossip. to be fair, i have the utmost professional respect . celebrity gossip. to be fair, i have l the utmost professional respect for you, you get it very sensitively, ask the right questions, just to reiterate, this is something he felt he needed to do, something he felt was necessary to do. you need a

heart of stone not to feel some measure of sympathy for a human being who is suffering so much. there are a lot of questions to answer. you will have seen many of the clips going around social media and that appearance at the national television awards, clearly very close to phillip schofield, up on the stage with the executives and the stage with the executives and the stars, also had a very prominent role, this young man, on screen, as we know. many of these questions will be answered in the days and weeks to come. when we do these interviews, that is chat of screen beforehand, during when we take a break, afterwards as well, what was that like? what was his demeanour then? was he communicating with you on any kind of level different from in the interview? i on any kind of level different from in the interview?—

in the interview? i don't know phillip schofield, _ in the interview? i don't know phillip schofield, not - in the interview? i don't know| phillip schofield, not someone in the interview? i don't know l phillip schofield, not someone i have come across before. when i spoke to him last week, very brief quite cursory but pleasant conversation, but that was the first time i spoke to him. i don't know him. i was keen to have time knowing he would be any charged state, to have time in advance to establish a rapport, get to know someone, put them a bit at ease, establish eye contact. the guy who turned up yesterday was a ghostly figure, extremely sunken says he hasn't eaten for a very long time, looked extremely gaunt, visibly shaken, not communicative, couldn't really talk. for people to understand, he had two interviews, emotional wrench, for people to understand, he had two interviews, emotionalwrench, he had just had the interview, probably quite exhausted, he knew he would face tough questions for me, not in a good way. thought about this for

decades, we have, to be frank, open, there is a tension, on the one hand, a very serious duty of care, for people listening and watching, but the bbc takes it in creatively seriously, we have multiple conversations in advance —— incredibly seriously. we have a duty of care which we observe to an interviewee but also a duty to the truth which mean sometimes asking really tough questions, as you heard, and there is a balance to be struck so hopefully if you get the tone right you can ask tough questions to get to the truth while not dipping someone in the direction thatis not dipping someone in the direction that is not where they should be. he said something happened between him and the young man, i will let you go in a second, you have to go, i appreciate you coming on at the beginning of our discussion, he said there were five, six occasions in there were five, six occasions in the interview when something happened with the young man. there are very different accounts from

eamon who i know too who worked on friday but no longer, he and ruth were removed, he has been giving a very different account of thursday clayton and car's for ferrying the young man between the studio and philip's flat —— thursday play time. something i want to ask you about, something that came up in the interview, philip mentioned there were double standards, that is the inference from what he said, in terms of if this had been a heterosexual relationship, there would not be the furore about it, the age gap and the nature. he mentioned leonardo dicaprio, for example. he mentioned there was something homophobic about this. tell us a little bit more about what he said. ., ~ tell us a little bit more about what he said. . ,, .,, ., he said. taking those in turn, on time is, i — he said. taking those in turn, on time is, i could _ he said. taking those in turn, on time is, i could talk— he said. taking those in turn, on time is, i could talk to _ he said. taking those in turn, on time is, i could talk to you - he said. taking those in turn, on time is, i could talk to you for. time is, i could talk to you for hours, the perils of half term,

childcare and half term and work, heady combination. 0n the homophobia, interesting we had a conversation in advance where that would be one of the questions i asked him, do you think... phillip schofield, married to a woman for many years, 2020 he came out as gay. something that caused him a lot of torment over the years. i was thinking i should raise this with him, a question may be slightly uncomfortable, he came out with hip, straight up, very early, repeated it strongly and came back to it at the end, his view emphatically strongly was that because the young man with whom he had had an extramarital affair was a whom he had had an extramarital affairwas a man, whom he had had an extramarital affair was a man, there was this huge seediness mayor salacious nurse that the way that it was being written, people can make up their own mind. his view was very strongly, raised of his own

volition, this isjust not... would not have this level of aggression and toxicity and frankly abuse on social media if it had been a heterosexual relationship and he says a clear sign in 2023 we have huge issues with homophobia. interesting, he made the point there is a difference between homophobia and the law, and at the level of cultural innuendo, if you like, at the level of what is not said, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, implied. i responded by saying there are legitimate questions which he accepts about the fact he met a young man when the young man was 15. his view was strongly there is a homophobic tent to the coverage. can i make one other point, if you have time? on eamon holmes and some of the claims, one of the reasons phillip schofield would do an interview like this is because he has deleted apps on his phone,

people messaging him, he has his daughters, aware of some of the stories and he was keen to correct some stories, really important people know and i am mindful of this, this is phillip schofield's account of events at this moment in time and on a number of issues, whether the man had signed an nda, whether the man had signed an nda, whether itv moved him to another programme, taxis paid for by itv, he offered a counterpoint to the views and factual analysis of people like eamon holmes, he did not want to get into a swinging match —— slinging match with eamon holmes, but i did put some morejuicy match with eamon holmes, but i did put some more juicy quotes to him. he wanted to correct the record and itv are doing an independent investigation and it will uncover more evidence and eventually we might get to the truth.— more evidence and eventually we might get to the truth. thank you. 0k. back might get to the truth. thank you. 0k- back to _ might get to the truth. thank you. 0k. back to childcare. _ might get to the truth. thank you. 0k. back to childcare. thank - might get to the truth. thank you. 0k. back to childcare. thank you i might get to the truth. thank you. l 0k. back to childcare. thank you for coming on. really, really appreciate it. he will be able to hear and see

more of the interview of course on iplayer —— you will. as amol said, so many issues raised by this relevant to so many of us, workplace culture, accusations of grooming, manipulation, my goodness me, hundreds of texts. i want to speak to a couple of listeners and then we will go to ali phillips, presenter and showbizjournalist. and also lucy, a psychotherapist who was an agony aunt on this morning. good morning tojulie. and laura in hackney. laura, good morning. what would you like to say to this? the first time i _ would you like to say to this? the first time i have _ would you like to say to this? iie: first time i have been would you like to say to this? "iie: first time i have been on would you like to say to this? ii2 first time i have been on the would you like to say to this? i““i2 first time i have been on the radio, thank you for having me. ijust think it is so early days in phillip schofield situation, a lot more

stuff that will come out, materialise. forall we stuff that will come out, materialise. for all we know for sure, all he has done at the moment is broken the work rules and the man seems to be very close to the edge and ijust have caroline flack in my mind. , ., ., ., i. mind. first time on the radio, you made a very _ mind. first time on the radio, you made a very clear, _ mind. first time on the radio, you made a very clear, concise, - mind. first time on the radio, you made a very clear, concise, petty| made a very clear, concise, petty point, thank you. julie, what would you like to say? —— pithy point. what would you like to say? he you like to say? -- pithy point. what would you like to say? he needs riva like what would you like to say? he needs privacy like everyone _ what would you like to say? he needs privacy like everyone else _ what would you like to say? he needs privacy like everyone else and - what would you like to say? he needs privacy like everyone else and some i privacy like everyone else and some private _ privacy like everyone else and some private life — privacy like everyone else and some private life. this privacy like everyone else and some rivate life. , , privacy like everyone else and some private life-— private life. this is excellent, eo - le private life. this is excellent, people coming _ private life. this is excellent, people coming on _ private life. this is excellent, people coming on and - private life. this is excellent, | people coming on and making private life. this is excellent, - people coming on and making points that we can dwell on and really think deeply about. very concisely. that is great. lucy beresford, is it anyone else's business?— anyone else's business? well, in truth it really _ anyone else's business? well, in truth it really isn't. _ anyone else's business? well, in truth it really isn't. but - anyone else's business? well, in truth it really isn't. but if - anyone else's business? well, in truth it really isn't. but if you - truth it really isn't. but if you are a public—

truth it really isn't. but if you are a public figure _ truth it really isn't. but if you are a public figure and - truth it really isn't. but if you are a public figure and you i truth it really isn't. but if you i are a public figure and you have truth it really isn't. but if you - are a public figure and you have got several— are a public figure and you have got several other— are a public figure and you have got several other people _ are a public figure and you have got several other people coming - are a public figure and you have got several other people coming out. are a public figure and you have gotl several other people coming out and giving _ several other people coming out and giving their— several other people coming out and giving their version— several other people coming out and giving their version of— several other people coming out and giving their version of events, - several other people coming out and giving their version of events, it - giving their version of events, it is a very— giving their version of events, it is a very natural— giving their version of events, it is a very natural human - giving their version of events, itj is a very natural human reaction giving their version of events, it i is a very natural human reaction to want _ is a very natural human reaction to want to— is a very natural human reaction to want to tell— is a very natural human reaction to want to tell your— is a very natural human reaction to want to tell your story. _ is a very natural human reaction to want to tell your story. all - is a very natural human reaction to want to tell your story. all humanl want to tell your story. all human beings _ want to tell your story. all human beings around _ want to tell your story. all human beings around the _ want to tell your story. all human beings around the world - want to tell your story. all human beings around the world simply. want to tell your story. all human i beings around the world simply want to feel— beings around the world simply want to feel heard — beings around the world simply want to feel heard in _ beings around the world simply want to feel heard in life. _ beings around the world simply want to feel heard in life. and _ beings around the world simply want to feel heard in life. and for- beings around the world simply want to feel heard in life. and for those i to feel heard in life. and for those feelings— to feel heard in life. and for those feelings and — to feel heard in life. and for those feelings and emotions _ to feel heard in life. and for those feelings and emotions to - to feel heard in life. and for those feelings and emotions to be - feelings and emotions to be validated _ feelings and emotions to be validated in— feelings and emotions to be validated in some _ feelings and emotions to be validated in some way. - feelings and emotions to be validated in some way. i- feelings and emotions to be validated in some way. i am feelings and emotions to be - validated in some way. i am not surprised — validated in some way. i am not surprised he _ validated in some way. i am not surprised he has— validated in some way. i am not surprised he has gone _ validated in some way. i am not surprised he has gone so- validated in some way. i am not| surprised he has gone so public, despite — surprised he has gone so public, despite the _ surprised he has gone so public, despite the fact _ surprised he has gone so public, despite the fact is _ surprised he has gone so public, despite the fact is trauma, - surprised he has gone so public, despite the fact is trauma, and i surprised he has gone so public, . despite the fact is trauma, and you can see _ despite the fact is trauma, and you can see if— despite the fact is trauma, and you can see if you — despite the fact is trauma, and you can see if you have _ despite the fact is trauma, and you can see if you have seen _ despite the fact is trauma, and you can see if you have seen the - can see if you have seen the interview— can see if you have seen the interview physically- can see if you have seen the interview physically as - can see if you have seen the interview physically as amolj can see if you have seen the - interview physically as amol says, he is _ interview physically as amol says, he is a _ interview physically as amol says, he is a shrunken _ interview physically as amol says, he is a shrunken man, _ interview physically as amol says, he is a shrunken man, just - interview physically as amol says, l he is a shrunken man, just hearing his voice. — he is a shrunken man, just hearing his voice, hearing _ he is a shrunken man, just hearing his voice, hearing the _ he is a shrunken man, just hearing his voice, hearing the silences, - he is a shrunken man, just hearing| his voice, hearing the silences, the silences _ his voice, hearing the silences, the silences at — his voice, hearing the silences, the silences at the _ his voice, hearing the silences, the silences at the end _ his voice, hearing the silences, the silences at the end of— his voice, hearing the silences, the silences at the end of the - his voice, hearing the silences, the silences at the end of the first - silences at the end of the first question. _ silences at the end of the first question. it— silences at the end of the first question, it speaks _ silences at the end of the first question, it speaks volumes. i silences at the end of the firstl question, it speaks volumes. a silences at the end of the first - question, it speaks volumes. a man who is— question, it speaks volumes. a man who is very— question, it speaks volumes. a man who is very broken. _ question, it speaks volumes. a man who is very broken. for— question, it speaks volumes. a man who is very broken. for that - question, it speaks volumes. a manj who is very broken. for that reason, probably— who is very broken. for that reason, probably needs _ who is very broken. for that reason, probably needs more _ who is very broken. for that reason, probably needs more time _ who is very broken. for that reason, probably needs more time away - who is very broken. for that reason, probably needs more time away and j probably needs more time away and coming _ probably needs more time away and coming out — probably needs more time away and coming out in — probably needs more time away and coming out in public, _ probably needs more time away and coming out in public, but _ probably needs more time away and coming out in public, but we - probably needs more time away and coming out in public, but we can- coming out in public, but we can understand _ coming out in public, but we can understand from _ coming out in public, but we can understand from a _ coming out in public, but we can understand from a news - coming out in public, but we can understand from a news cycle i understand from a news cycle perspective _ understand from a news cycle perspective while _ understand from a news cycle perspective while he - understand from a news cycle perspective while he felt - understand from a news cycle perspective while he felt he l understand from a news cycle - perspective while he felt he needed to tell— perspective while he felt he needed to tell his— perspective while he felt he needed to tell his story _ perspective while he felt he needed to tell his story right _ perspective while he felt he needed to tell his story right now. - perspective while he felt he needed to tell his story right now. i- perspective while he felt he needed to tell his story right now.— to tell his story right now. i have known him _ to tell his story right now. i have known him for _ to tell his story right now. i have known him for a _ to tell his story right now. i have known him for a long _ to tell his story right now. i have known him for a long time, -

to tell his story right now. i have known him for a long time, but l to tell his story right now. i have i known him for a long time, but not at all well. one of those things. what a professional he is, great presenter. not one of those it would be easy to have banter with. quite a steely professional exterior. what were your impressions of him, working with him and around him? its, working with him and around him? a very warm and very generous professional— very warm and very generous professional person. - very warm and very generous professional person. when i. very warm and very generous - professional person. when i went on set and _ professional person. when i went on set and there — professional person. when i went on set and there is— professional person. when i went on set and there is clearly— professional person. when i went on set and there is clearly a _ professional person. when i went on set and there is clearly a this - set and there is clearly a this morning _ set and there is clearly a this morning family, _ set and there is clearly a this morning family, i— set and there is clearly a this morning family, i was- set and there is clearly a this i morning family, i was welcomed set and there is clearly a this - morning family, i was welcomed into the family— morning family, i was welcomed into the family as — morning family, i was welcomed into the family as if— morning family, i was welcomed into the family as if i _ morning family, i was welcomed into the family as if i was _ morning family, i was welcomed into the family as if i was part— morning family, i was welcomed into the family as if i was part of- morning family, i was welcomed into the family as if i was part of and - the family as if i was part of and that is— the family as if i was part of and that is partly— the family as if i was part of and that is partly filip _ the family as if i was part of and that is partly filip and _ the family as if i was part of and that is partly filip and partly- that is partly filip and partly wholly — that is partly filip and partly wholly and _ that is partly filip and partly wholly and partly _ that is partly filip and partly wholly and partly the - that is partly filip and partly wholly and partly the team i that is partly filip and partly- wholly and partly the team around them, _ wholly and partly the team around them, but — wholly and partly the team around them, but i — wholly and partly the team around them, but i would _ wholly and partly the team around them, but i would say— wholly and partly the team around them, but i would say more - wholly and partly the team around them, but i would say more than i wholly and partly the team around i them, but i would say more than that as a viewer, — them, but i would say more than that as a viewer, as— them, but i would say more than that as a viewer, as you _ them, but i would say more than that as a viewer, as you say, _ them, but i would say more than that as a viewer, as you say, you - them, but i would say more than that as a viewer, as you say, you get- as a viewer, as you say, you get someone — as a viewer, as you say, you get someone who— as a viewer, as you say, you get someone who is _ as a viewer, as you say, you get someone who is very _ as a viewer, as you say, you get. someone who is very professional as a viewer, as you say, you get- someone who is very professional and very much— someone who is very professional and very much someone _ someone who is very professional and very much someone who _ someone who is very professional and very much someone who knows - someone who is very professional and very much someone who knows how. someone who is very professional andl very much someone who knows how to be a very— very much someone who knows how to be a very good — very much someone who knows how to be a very good person _ very much someone who knows how to be a very good person at _ very much someone who knows how to be a very good person at his _ very much someone who knows how to be a very good person at his job - very much someone who knows how to be a very good person at his job and i be a very good person at his job and that is—

be a very good person at his job and that is what— be a very good person at his job and that is what we _ be a very good person at his job and that is what we need _ be a very good person at his job and that is what we need to _ be a very good person at his job and that is what we need to remember, | that is what we need to remember, there _ that is what we need to remember, there is— that is what we need to remember, there is a _ that is what we need to remember, there is a difference _ that is what we need to remember, there is a difference between- that is what we need to remember, there is a difference between the l there is a difference between the person— there is a difference between the person who — there is a difference between the person who is _ there is a difference between the person who is the _ there is a difference between the person who is the personality- there is a difference between the person who is the personality on| there is a difference between the i person who is the personality on her and plays— person who is the personality on her and plays that — person who is the personality on her and plays that role, _ person who is the personality on her and plays that role, in _ person who is the personality on her and plays that role, in a _ person who is the personality on her and plays that role, in a way, - person who is the personality on her and plays that role, in a way, and i person who is the personality on her and plays that role, in a way, and a i and plays that role, in a way, and a private _ and plays that role, in a way, and a private person— and plays that role, in a way, and a private person behind—the—scenesl and plays that role, in a way, and a l private person behind—the—scenes —— on air~ _ private person behind—the—scenes —— on air~ and _ private person behind—the—scenes —— on air~ and the— private person behind—the—scenes —— on air. and the person _ private person behind—the—scenes —— on air. and the person now— private person behind—the—scenes —— on air. and the person now feeling i on air. and the person now feeling so vulnerable. _ on air. and the person now feeling so vulnerable, so _ on air. and the person now feeling so vulnerable, so hurt, _ on air. and the person now feeling so vulnerable, so hurt, feels - on air. and the person now feeling so vulnerable, so hurt, feels the l so vulnerable, so hurt, feels the only— so vulnerable, so hurt, feels the only people _ so vulnerable, so hurt, feels the only people propping _ so vulnerable, so hurt, feels the only people propping him - so vulnerable, so hurt, feels the only people propping him up- so vulnerable, so hurt, feels the only people propping him up at. so vulnerable, so hurt, feels the i only people propping him up at the moment— only people propping him up at the moment are — only people propping him up at the moment are his _ only people propping him up at the moment are his daughters, - only people propping him up at the moment are his daughters, that i only people propping him up at the moment are his daughters, that is| moment are his daughters, that is what _ moment are his daughters, that is what we _ moment are his daughters, that is what we have _ moment are his daughters, that is what we have got _ moment are his daughters, that is what we have got to _ moment are his daughters, that is what we have got to remember. . moment are his daughters, that is i what we have got to remember. yes, we can— what we have got to remember. yes, we can have — what we have got to remember. yes, we can have discussions _ what we have got to remember. yes, we can have discussions about- what we have got to remember. yes, we can have discussions about the i we can have discussions about the impact _ we can have discussions about the impact on — we can have discussions about the impact on itv— we can have discussions about the impact on itv share _ we can have discussions about the impact on itv share price, - we can have discussions about the impact on itv share price, what. we can have discussions about the . impact on itv share price, what they knew, _ impact on itv share price, what they knew. who _ impact on itv share price, what they knew. who is — impact on itv share price, what they knew, who is telling _ impact on itv share price, what they knew, who is telling the _ impact on itv share price, what they knew, who is telling the truth, - impact on itv share price, what they knew, who is telling the truth, what| knew, who is telling the truth, what is going _ knew, who is telling the truth, what is going to _ knew, who is telling the truth, what is going to come _ knew, who is telling the truth, what is going to come out _ knew, who is telling the truth, what is going to come out of— knew, who is telling the truth, what is going to come out of all- knew, who is telling the truth, what is going to come out of all of - knew, who is telling the truth, what is going to come out of all of this, l is going to come out of all of this, but in _ is going to come out of all of this, but in essence, _ is going to come out of all of this, but in essence, we _ is going to come out of all of this, but in essence, we are _ is going to come out of all of this, but in essence, we are talking - is going to come out of all of this, . but in essence, we are talking about two people — but in essence, we are talking about two people here, _ but in essence, we are talking about two people here, to— but in essence, we are talking about two people here, to people - but in essence, we are talking about two people here, to people whose . two people here, to people whose lives have — two people here, to people whose lives have been— two people here, to people whose lives have been upended - two people here, to people whose lives have been upended and - two people here, to people whose i lives have been upended and perhaps in a way— lives have been upended and perhaps in a way the _ lives have been upended and perhaps in a way the fallout _ lives have been upended and perhaps in a way the fallout of— lives have been upended and perhaps in a way the fallout of that _ lives have been upended and perhaps in a way the fallout of that is - in a way the fallout of that is other— in a way the fallout of that is other people _ in a way the fallout of that is other people around - in a way the fallout of that is other people around them, i in a way the fallout of that is i other people around them, and in a way the fallout of that is - other people around them, and that should _ other people around them, and that should be _ other people around them, and that should be our— other people around them, and that should be our focus. _ other people around them, and that should be our focus. our— other people around them, and that should be our focus. our primary. should be our focus. our primary concern — should be our focus. our primary concern should _ should be our focus. our primary concern should be _ should be our focus. our primary concern should be the _ should be our focus. our primary concern should be the mental. concern should be the mental well-being _ concern should be the mental well-being of— concern should be the mental well—being of the _ concern should be the mental well—being of the people - concern should be the mental well—being of the people at l concern should be the mental. well—being of the people at the heart _ well—being of the people at the heart of— well—being of the people at the heart of the _ well—being of the people at the heart of the story— well—being of the people at the heart of the story and - well—being of the people at the heart of the story and making i well—being of the people at the i heart of the story and making sure whatever_ heart of the story and making sure whatever we — heart of the story and making sure whatever we might _ heart of the story and making sure whatever we might think— heart of the story and making sure whatever we might think about. heart of the story and making sure whatever we might think about it i whatever we might think about it that we _ whatever we might think about it that we are — whatever we might think about it that we are mindful— whatever we might think about it that we are mindful of— whatever we might think about it that we are mindful of the - whatever we might think about it that we are mindful of the fact i whatever we might think about it. that we are mindful of the fact they are going _ that we are mindful of the fact they are going through— that we are mindful of the fact they are going through trauma, - that we are mindful of the fact they are going through trauma, they- that we are mindful of the fact they are going through trauma, they are going _

are going through trauma, they are going through — are going through trauma, they are going through loss, _ are going through trauma, they are going through loss, massive - are going through trauma, they are going through loss, massive series| going through loss, massive series of endings, — going through loss, massive series ofehdihgs, hot— going through loss, massive series of endings, not just _ going through loss, massive series of endings, not just the _ going through loss, massive series of endings, not just the ending - going through loss, massive series of endings, notjust the ending of. of endings, notjust the ending of the relationship, _ of endings, notjust the ending of the relationship, not _ of endings, notjust the ending of the relationship, notjust- of endings, notjust the ending of the relationship, not just the - the relationship, notjust the ending — the relationship, notjust the ending of— the relationship, notjust the ending of a _ the relationship, notjust the ending of a job, _ the relationship, notjust the ending of a job, the - the relationship, notjust the ending of a job, the ending l the relationship, not just the - ending of a job, the ending perhaps ending ofajob, the ending perhaps of ending of a job, the ending perhaps of friendships, _ ending of a job, the ending perhaps of friendships, the _ ending of a job, the ending perhaps of friendships, the ending - ending of a job, the ending perhaps of friendships, the ending of- ending ofajob, the ending perhaps of friendships, the ending of a - of friendships, the ending of a sense — of friendships, the ending of a sense of— of friendships, the ending of a sense of who _ of friendships, the ending of a sense of who am _ of friendships, the ending of a sense of who am i, _ of friendships, the ending of a sense of who am i, what - of friendships, the ending of a sense of who am i, what is - of friendships, the ending of aj sense of who am i, what is my identity? — sense of who am i, what is my identity? i_ sense of who am i, what is my identity? i used _ sense of who am i, what is my identity? i used to— sense of who am i, what is my identity? i used to be - sense of who am i, what is my identity? i used to be this - identity? i used to be this presenter, _ identity? i used to be this presenter, what - identity? i used to be this presenter, what am - identity? i used to be this presenter, what am i- identity? i used to be this. presenter, what am i now? identity? i used to be this - presenter, what am i now? all of that is_ presenter, what am i now? all of that is mixed _ presenter, what am i now? all of that is mixed up _ presenter, what am i now? all of that is mixed up in _ presenter, what am i now? all of that is mixed up in the _ presenter, what am i now? all of that is mixed up in the turmoil. presenter, what am i now? all of. that is mixed up in the turmoil and we need _ that is mixed up in the turmoil and we need to— that is mixed up in the turmoil and we need to give _ that is mixed up in the turmoil and we need to give this _ that is mixed up in the turmoil and we need to give this person- that is mixed up in the turmoil andi we need to give this person respect for that _ we need to give this person respect for that he— we need to give this person respect for that. ., , , we need to give this person respect for that. . , , ., we need to give this person respect for that. . , , . , , for that. he has been a presenter for that. he has been a presenter for decades- _ for that. he has been a presenter for decades. probably _ for that. he has been a presenter for decades. probably didn't - for that. he has been a presenter. for decades. probably didn't express it very well when i said i have known him for a long time, steely exterior. not cold butjust such professional, i think self—control is what i would say and this has... it has torn it up into shreds and he has shown that vulnerability. he has always been warm, charming, just want to emphasise that. finally, he texted holly willoughby and she didn't reply and they met much of their closeness and friendship over

their closeness and friendship over the years, part of the chemistry. what do you make of that? maybe it was legal advice not to reply, who knows. what are your thoughts on that? i think we don't know the full picture — i think we don't know the full picture yet _ i think we don't know the full picture yet it— i think we don't know the full picture yet. it looks - i think we don't know the full picture yet. it looks on - i think we don't know the full| picture yet. it looks on phillip schofietd's _ picture yet. it looks on phillip schofield's side _ picture yet. it looks on phillip schofield's side as _ picture yet. it looks on phillip schofield's side as though - picture yet. it looks on phillip schofield's side as though he| picture yet. it looks on phillip . schofield's side as though he has reached — schofield's side as though he has reached out _ schofield's side as though he has reached out to _ schofield's side as though he has reached out to someone - schofield's side as though he has reached out to someone and - schofield's side as though he has reached out to someone and has| schofield's side as though he has - reached out to someone and has had sitehce _ reached out to someone and has had silence and _ reached out to someone and has had silence and that _ reached out to someone and has had silence and that might— reached out to someone and has had silence and that might feel— reached out to someone and has had silence and that might feel like - reached out to someone and has had silence and that might feel like a - silence and that might feel like a rejection. — silence and that might feel like a rejection. and _ silence and that might feel like a rejection, and in _ silence and that might feel like a rejection, and in addition - silence and that might feel like a rejection, and in addition to - silence and that might feel like a rejection, and in addition to all. rejection, and in addition to all the other— rejection, and in addition to all the other endings _ rejection, and in addition to all the other endings the - rejection, and in addition to all the other endings the panic- rejection, and in addition to all. the other endings the panic might rejection, and in addition to all- the other endings the panic might be that this _ the other endings the panic might be that this is _ the other endings the panic might be that this is another _ the other endings the panic might be that this is another relationship - that this is another relationship that this is another relationship that has— that this is another relationship that has ended _ that this is another relationship that has ended or— that this is another relationship that has ended or he _ that this is another relationship that has ended or he has- that this is another relationship that has ended or he has lost. that this is another relationship . that has ended or he has lost holly in some _ that has ended or he has lost holly in some way~ — that has ended or he has lost holly in some way~ but _ that has ended or he has lost holly in some way. but that _ that has ended or he has lost holly in some way. but that might - that has ended or he has lost holly in some way. but that might not. that has ended or he has lost holly| in some way. but that might not be the case _ in some way. but that might not be the case going _ in some way. but that might not be the case going forward _ in some way. but that might not be the case going forward and - in some way. but that might not be the case going forward and there i in some way. but that might not be . the case going forward and there may be other— the case going forward and there may be other channels _ the case going forward and there may be other channels of _ the case going forward and there may be other channels of communication. | be other channels of communication. we know— be other channels of communication. we know that — be other channels of communication. we know that might _ be other channels of communication. we know that might hurt— be other channels of communication. we know that might hurt for- be other channels of communication. we know that might hurt for him - be other channels of communication. we know that might hurt for him but| we know that might hurt for him but we don't _ we know that might hurt for him but we don't know— we know that might hurt for him but we don't know the _ we know that might hurt for him but we don't know the full— we know that might hurt for him but we don't know the full picture - we know that might hurt for him but we don't know the full picture as - we know that might hurt for him but we don't know the full picture as to. we don't know the full picture as to why she _ we don't know the full picture as to why she hasn't _ we don't know the full picture as to why she hasn't replied. _ we don't know the full picture as to why she hasn't replied. i— we don't know the full picture as to why she hasn't replied. i gather- we don't know the full picture as to| why she hasn't replied. i gather she might— why she hasn't replied. i gather she might be _ why she hasn't replied. i gather she might be overseas— why she hasn't replied. i gather she might be overseas so— why she hasn't replied. i gather she might be overseas so who - why she hasn't replied. i gather she might be overseas so who knows, l might be overseas so who knows, maybe _ might be overseas so who knows, maybe she — might be overseas so who knows, maybe she has _ might be overseas so who knows, maybe she has her— might be overseas so who knows, maybe she has her phone - might be overseas so who knows, l maybe she has her phone switched off. maybe she has her phone switched off but _ maybe she has her phone switched off. but yes. — maybe she has her phone switched off but yes, irr— maybe she has her phone switched off. but yes, in that _ maybe she has her phone switched off. but yes, in that situation - off. but yes, in that situation you're — off. but yes, in that situation you're going _ off. but yes, in that situation you're going to— off. but yes, in that situation you're going to be _ off. but yes, in that situation you're going to be very- off. but yes, in that situation - you're going to be very conscious of who is— you're going to be very conscious of who is there — you're going to be very conscious of who is there for— you're going to be very conscious of who is there for you _ you're going to be very conscious of who is there for you and _ you're going to be very conscious of who is there for you and who - you're going to be very conscious of who is there for you and who is - you're going to be very conscious of who is there for you and who is not| who is there for you and who is not there _ who is there for you and who is not there for— who is there for you and who is not there for you — who is there for you and who is not there for you and _ who is there for you and who is not there for you and that _ who is there for you and who is not

there for you and that can - who is there for you and who is not there for you and that can change. | there for you and that can change. some _ there for you and that can change. some people _ there for you and that can change. some peopte are _ there for you and that can change. some people are not— there for you and that can change. some people are not able - there for you and that can change. some people are not able to - there for you and that can change. some people are not able to be i there for you and that can change. i some people are not able to be there for us _ some people are not able to be there for us in _ some people are not able to be there for us in times— some people are not able to be there for us in times of— some people are not able to be there for us in times of great _ some people are not able to be there for us in times of great trauma - some people are not able to be there for us in times of great trauma and l for us in times of great trauma and sadness _ for us in times of great trauma and sadness peopte— for us in times of great trauma and sadness. people listening - for us in times of great trauma and sadness. people listening and - sadness. people listening and watching _ sadness. people listening and watching your _ sadness. people listening and watching your show— sadness. people listening and watching your show i'm - sadness. people listening and watching your show i'm sure i sadness. people listening and . watching your show i'm sure will have _ watching your show i'm sure will have treeh— watching your show i'm sure will have been through _ watching your show i'm sure will have been through their- watching your show i'm sure will have been through their own - watching your show i'm sure will - have been through their own endings, heartbreak, _ have been through their own endings, heartbreak, bereavement, _ have been through their own endings, heartbreak, bereavement, and - have been through their own endings, heartbreak, bereavement, and they. heartbreak, bereavement, and they can often— heartbreak, bereavement, and they can often took— heartbreak, bereavement, and they can often look back _ heartbreak, bereavement, and they can often look back and _ heartbreak, bereavement, and they can often look back and think, - heartbreak, bereavement, and they can often look back and think, i- heartbreak, bereavement, and they can often look back and think, i was very surprised — can often look back and think, i was very surprised that _ can often look back and think, i was very surprised that the _ can often look back and think, i was very surprised that the people - can often look back and think, i was very surprised that the people whoi very surprised that the people who were there — very surprised that the people who were there for _ very surprised that the people who were there for me _ very surprised that the people who were there for me and _ very surprised that the people who were there for me and the - very surprised that the people who were there for me and the people i very surprised that the people who - were there for me and the people who weren't _ were there for me and the people who weren't you _ were there for me and the people who weren't. you really— were there for me and the people who weren't. you really know— were there for me and the people who weren't. you really know who - were there for me and the people who weren't. you really know who your- weren't. you really know who your true friends — weren't. you really know who your true friends are. _ weren't. you really know who your true friends are. it _ weren't. you really know who your true friends are. it also _ weren't. you really know who your true friends are. it also means - weren't. you really know who your| true friends are. it also means you need _ true friends are. it also means you need to— true friends are. it also means you need to take — true friends are. it also means you need to take a _ true friends are. it also means you need to take a step— true friends are. it also means you need to take a step back— true friends are. it also means you need to take a step back and - need to take a step back and acknowledge _ need to take a step back and acknowledge the _ need to take a step back and acknowledge the fluidity, - need to take a step back and i acknowledge the fluidity, until need to take a step back and - acknowledge the fluidity, until the dust settles — acknowledge the fluidity, until the dust settles you _ acknowledge the fluidity, until the dust settles you can't _ acknowledge the fluidity, until the dust settles you can't draw - acknowledge the fluidity, until the dust settles you can't draw any - acknowledge the fluidity, until the i dust settles you can't draw any firm conclusions — dust settles you can't draw any firm conclusions about _ dust settles you can't draw any firm conclusions about who _ dust settles you can't draw any firm conclusions about who is _ dust settles you can't draw any firm conclusions about who is in - dust settles you can't draw any firm conclusions about who is in your- conclusions about who is in your life and — conclusions about who is in your life and who _ conclusions about who is in your life and who isn't _ conclusions about who is in your life and who isn't any _ conclusions about who is in your life and who isn't any longer. i conclusions about who is in your life and who isn't any longer. thank ou, ve life and who isn't any longer. thank you. very good _ life and who isn't any longer. thank you. very good to — life and who isn't any longer. thank you. very good to get _ life and who isn't any longer. thank you, very good to get your - life and who isn't any longer. thank you, very good to get your take - life and who isn't any longer. thank you, very good to get your take on | you, very good to get your take on all this given your knowledge of this morning and also how we tick. lucy beresford, psychotherapist and who was an agony aunt on this morning. let me tell you that details of organisations offering support with some of the issues raised by all this in that interview and in the programme today more broadly over the last few days are

available on the bbc action line website. the news is coming up. there are loads of texts and reactions to this. good morning, i have no sympathy with phillip schofield. he has brought this on himself, he has been caught lying and is trying to justify his actions. it's not about him being gay, its honesty and integrity. i'm disgusted with his comparison to caroline flack. from an angry listener. this one, the poor man, it is now a witch hunt. think of his mental health and family. i can't believe after all these years some people have turned on him this viciously. it was not news in the first place, just sensationalist twisting of his private life. he has been through enough. so many more important things are going on in the world. stop. that isjoe. two more. phillip schofield states his career is over. it's because it has been

made public, why now? why didn't he step down all those years ago for the sake of all those affected? that's andy in sheffield to stop and on the other side, leave him alone. if he had an affair with a woman, would there be a fuss? they are consenting adults, what is wrong with the uk? don't people have more to worry about? it's time for the news. it's time for the news with bethan holmes. phillip schofield says he's "lost everything" in an interview with the bbc. he expressed deep remorse for his relationship with a younger colleague at this morning and denied grooming him. he's apologised for lying about the relationship when itv tried to investigate it. researchers say a blood test for more than 50 types of cancer —

has shown real promise in a major nhs trial. it correctly revealed two out of every three cancers among 5,000 people who had visited their gp with suspected symptoms in england or wales. but it won't be rolled out yet as it's being called a "work in progress". science minister george freeman has admitted the government is likely to lose its legal challenge against the covid inquiry. yesterday the government announced it would seek a judicial review to try to block the release of borisjohnson's unredacted private messages and diaries. another rail strike is taking place today, involving around 20,000 members of the rmt union, because of an ongoing dispute about pay and conditions. rail companies and the government say they've made fair pay offers. those were the news headlines. now is nick hatton with the sport. leeds united have parted company with manager sam allardyce following their relegation from the premier league. allardyce took over with four games

remaining, taking just one point from a possible 12. the club say both parties have mutually agreed for allardyce spell at the club to come to an end, and that an announcement on a new leeds united head coach will be made in the coming weeks. manchester city striker erling haaland has told the bbc he "will do everything" to help the club achieve a historic treble. city take on rivals manchester united in the fa cup final this weekend, with a champions league final against inter to follow onjune 10th. the referees body, the pgmol, says it's "appalled" at "unjustified and abhorrent abuse" directed towards referee anthony taylor at budapest airport. videos on social media showed taylor and his family being attacked by fans following roma's defeat to sevilla in wednesday's europa league final in the city. england will resume this morning on 152—1 after a dominant first day at lord's in their one—off test against ireland. stuart broad took 5—51 as ireland were bowled out forjust 172. live ball—by—ball commentary on 5 sports extra, all the build up from 10:15.

more of your calls and loads of texts. i think i said that already but there is an overwhelming reaction to this and some really nuanced points coming from listeners and viewers. a fair bit of support for phillip schofield. we seek to reflect everything that's incoming. but karen in scarborough and tony in exeter. ellie, iwill but karen in scarborough and tony in exeter. ellie, i will be with you

soon, ellie phillips, showbiz journalist. karen, good morning to you. a quick thought. i journalist. karen, good morning to you. a quick thought.— you. a quick thought. i was a specialist _ you. a quick thought. i was a specialist in detective - you. a quick thought. i was a i specialist in detective constable you. a quick thought. i was a - specialist in detective constable in child abuse and then went on to manage sex offenders and paedophiles. when i first saw phillip schofield come out on live tv with holly willoughby i smelled a rat then. i thought, there's going to be more to this. it is concerning. it doesn't matter whether it is homosexual or heterosexual, at the end of the day heterosexual, at the end of the day he has groomed a child. professionals need to be looking into it more deeply. he professionals need to be looking into it more deeply.— professionals need to be looking into it more deeply. he clearly says into it more deeply. he clearly says in the interview _ into it more deeply. he clearly says in the interview that _ into it more deeply. he clearly says in the interview that wasn't - into it more deeply. he clearly says in the interview that wasn't the - in the interview that wasn't the case, that it wasn't a grooming situation. he went to open a theatre school at the request of her friend. this young man was there. 15 at the

time. he said he would love to get into television. he said, i can give you some advice, blah blah blah, and five years later something happened. he denies it, i have to say that. as you know, karen. the he denies it, i have to say that. as you know, karen.— you know, karen. the air, but, my oint, if you know, karen. the air, but, my point. if that— you know, karen. the air, but, my point, if that came _ you know, karen. the air, but, my point, if that came to _ you know, karen. the air, but, my point, if that came to me - you know, karen. the air, but, my point, if that came to me as - you know, karen. the air, but, my point, if that came to me as a - you know, karen. the air, but, my point, if that came to me as a job, i would be delving into it and looking back to those first meetings from when the boy was a child. and then take it further.— then take it further. thank you, karen. leave _ then take it further. thank you, karen. leave no _ then take it further. thank you, karen. leave no stone - then take it further. thank you, | karen. leave no stone unturned. professional _ karen. leave no stone unturned. professional expertise, - karen. leave no stone unturned. professional expertise, a - karen. leave no stone unturned. professional expertise, a former| professional expertise, a former police officer who dealt with child sexual abuse. tony, what do you think? ,., ., sexual abuse. tony, what do you think? ., . ~ sexual abuse. tony, what do you think? ., . ., think? good morning, thank you for caettin in think? good morning, thank you for getting in touch- — think? good morning, thank you for getting in touch. thank— think? good morning, thank you for getting in touch. thank you - think? good morning, thank you for getting in touch. thank you for - getting in touch. thank you for sendin: getting in touch. thank you for sending a _ getting in touch. thank you for sending a message. _ getting in touch. thank you for sending a message. this - getting in touch. thank you for sending a message. this guy l getting in touch. thank you for| sending a message. this guy is suffering. _ sending a message. this guy is suffering. he — sending a message. this guy is suffering, he says, _ sending a message. this guy is suffering, he says, he - sending a message. this guy is suffering, he says, he is- sending a message. this guy is i suffering, he says, he is broken. nicky. _ suffering, he says, he is broken. nicky. cry— suffering, he says, he is broken. nicky, cry me a river, for god's

site~ _ nicky, cry me a river, for god's site what _ nicky, cry me a river, for god's site what a _ nicky, cry me a river, for god's site. what a grandstanding drama queen— site. what a grandstanding drama queen this mendacious anomaly is. | queen this mendacious anomaly is. i think queen this mendacious anomaly is. think we queen this mendacious anomaly is. i think we have two picked our language with some sensitivity. qk. language with some sensitivity. ok. i think he language with some sensitivity. ok. i think he is — language with some sensitivity. ok. i think he is attention seeking. i think— i think he is attention seeking. i think very— i think he is attention seeking. i think very strongly this was a manipulative and self—indulgent overacting interview. he has done this for— overacting interview. he has done this for years, nicky. overacting interview. he has done this foryears, nicky. he has carefully— this foryears, nicky. he has carefully choreographed prepared statements on television and too and try to _ statements on television and too and try to sett— statements on television and too and try to sell this to the public as if he is _ try to sell this to the public as if he is sorry _ try to sell this to the public as if he is sorry. if you meet someone at 15, take _ he is sorry. if you meet someone at 15, take him — he is sorry. if you meet someone at 15, take him home for personal gratification over a period of years. — gratification over a period of years, that is grooming. from the are of years, that is grooming. from the age of 20- — years, that is grooming. from the age of 20- sorry- _ years, that is grooming. from the age of 20. sorry. from _ years, that is grooming. from the age of 20. sorry. from the - years, that is grooming. from the age of 20. sorry. from the age i years, that is grooming. from the age of 20. sorry. from the age of| age of 20. sorry. from the age of 20. age of 20. sorry. from the age of 20- that's — age of 20. sorry. from the age of 20. that's when _ age of 20. sorry. from the age of 20. that's when the _ age of 20. sorry. from the age of 20. that's when the relationship l 20. that's when the relationship started. that's when something happened, he said, in the dressing

room. i happened, he said, in the dressing room. ., room. i thought he met him when he was 15. he room. i thought he met him when he was 15- he met— room. i thought he met him when he was 15. he met him _ room. i thought he met him when he was 15. he met him when _ room. i thought he met him when he was 15. he met him when he - room. i thought he met him when he was 15. he met him when he was - room. i thought he met him when hel was 15. he met him when he was 15... if it had was 15. he met him when he was 15... if it had been — was 15. he met him when he was 15... if it had been a _ was 15. he met him when he was 15... if it had been a 15-year-old _ was 15. he met him when he was 15... if it had been a 15-year-old girl - was 15. he met him when he was 15... if it had been a 15-year-old girl he - if it had been a 15—year—old girl he would _ if it had been a 15—year—old girl he would be — if it had been a 15—year—old girl he would be in — if it had been a 15—year—old girl he would be in prison. if it had been a 15-year-old girl he would be in prison.— would be in prison. there is no suggestion _ would be in prison. there is no suggestion there _ would be in prison. there is no suggestion there was - would be in prison. there is no suggestion there was any - would be in prison. there is no i suggestion there was any sexual activity when he was a minor. tony, we hear you, wow. if we see your opinions, we get your opinions, we will put them on the air. it would be hypocritical not to hear all sides and all angles of this. you will potentially hear things you are uncomfortable with. that's the nature of it. ellie phillips, hello. this is such a minefield and there are so many sensitivities and sensibilities going on here. what do you make of it?— you make of it? there is so much to make of it- — you make of it? there is so much to make of it. the _ you make of it? there is so much to make of it. the first _ you make of it? there is so much to make of it. the first point _ you make of it? there is so much to make of it. the first point is - you make of it? there is so much to make of it. the first point is that. make of it. the first point is that people say, it is just salacious gossip and it is no one's business, it is his private life. he put it in

the public arena when he chose to come out as gay on the biggest television show in the country in 2020. no one made him do that, he said himself, he decided to share that part of himself and share his sexuality and that glimpse into his private life, with this huge audience knowing how far—reaching it would go. 1 audience knowing how far-reaching it would no. ' ., ' ., would go. 1 million, 1.5 million. exactl . would go. 1 million, 1.5 million. exactly- even — would go. 1 million, 1.5 million. exactly. even now _ would go. 1 million, 1.5 million. exactly. even now i _ would go. 1 million, 1.5 million. exactly. even nowi get - would go. 1 million, 1.5 million. exactly. even now i get he - would go. 1 million, 1.5 million. exactly. even now i get he once would go. 1 million, 1.5 million. i exactly. even now i get he once to respond to allegations and people's comments about his behaviour. choosing to do two interviews, one with the bbc and one with the sun. no one is forcing him to do those interviews. i think people need to realise that this is his choice, he has decided to do that and put it in the public domain. he has decided to put out a statement about the affair. no one made him do that.

there were all these rumours are swirling but he has chosen how to deal with that. he didn't put a statement out through lawyers and publicists. he even responded at one point on an instagram post, which i think was unwise. i think it sparked a lot of people asking, who is looking after him. i have said since day one of covering this, for a huge range of outlets, that your mental health is important. notjust his mental health but the mental health of the young runner whose life is essentially in tatters after this. we don't name him or say who he is, but social media is uncharted waters, in terms of it is not policed potentially effectively and it has nowhere near the same regulations that the press and media have in terms of respecting our rules and ethics. that is really troubling. i think what phillip schofield said in terms of what's out there and the reaction, i think people need to differentiate and

understand there is a huge difference between what the media reports and what is out there on social media and they are two different worlds altogether. i can speak on behalf of the media in the sense that reporting of this relationship with a younger person, i have reported many a time on leonardo dicaprio's relationships, and it has been the same reaction of, wow, this is a huge difference in age. of, wow, this is a huge difference in are. ~ . of, wow, this is a huge difference in a.e_~ ., ., of, wow, this is a huge difference inane.~ . , of, wow, this is a huge difference inarer ., , ., of, wow, this is a huge difference ina.e_. ., , ., ., in age. what about cheryl cole, who met liam payne _ in age. what about cheryl cole, who met liam payne of _ in age. what about cheryl cole, who met liam payne of one _ in age. what about cheryl cole, who met liam payne of one direction - in age. what about cheryl cole, who i met liam payne of one direction when he was 1a. met liam payne of one direction when he was 14. . . , ,., , met liam payne of one direction when hewas14. . . ,~ , he was 14. yeah, and everybody said the same thing- _ he was 14. yeah, and everybody said the same thing. i _ he was 14. yeah, and everybody said the same thing. ijust _ he was 14. yeah, and everybody said the same thing. ijust know- he was 14. yeah, and everybody said the same thing. ijust know from - he was 14. yeah, and everybody said the same thing. ijust know from myj the same thing. ijust know from my experience of covering all of these... ., experience of covering all of these... ,, �* , g, these... she hasn't been drummed out ofthe these... she hasn't been drummed out of the regiment- _ these... she hasn't been drummed out of the regiment. she _ these... she hasn't been drummed out of the regiment. she is _ these. .. she hasn't been drummed out of the regiment. she is still— these... she hasn't been drummed out of the regiment. she is still loved, - of the regiment. she is still loved, respected and up there doing what she does. ya. respected and up there doing what she does. . , , , ., she does. ya, i guess, but at the same time _ she does. ya, i guess, but at the same time there _ she does. ya, i guess, but at the same time there was _ she does. ya, i guess, but at the same time there was no - she does. ya, i guess, but at the same time there was no secret, l she does. ya, i guess, but at the| same time there was no secret, it wasn't hidden or hushed under, it wasn't hidden or hushed under, it wasn't a secret and it wasn't an affair. you are building on multiple layers here. it's notjust the fact

there was a relationship with a huge age gap, regardless of the sexes of the individuals and who was older, it's more the fact that it was on top of it it was secret. it was kept under wraps and people were lied to. investigations were done and that was lied about. there is a multilayer thing going on. it's not as simple as saying, i was dating someone younger and that is just seen as bad because we are both men. i think it is an irresponsible way of putting it for work because i know from a media perspective that the sex of an individual is irrelevant. it is more the abuse of power, the situation, the safeguarding of the younger person who you helped get a job. who you then befriended and then hid the relationship from other people, from your wife, colleagues and bosses. there are so many worrying elements to this and i think the sex of the individual is not even one of them. we have another couple of things to

ask you which i will do so in the fullness of time. janine in manchester, a quick thought, good morning. manchester, a quick thought, good morninu. manchester, a quick thought, good mornin., ., manchester, a quick thought, good morning-_ go - manchester, a quick thought, good morning._ go on. . manchester, a quick thought, good morning._ go on.- manchester, a quick thought, good morning._ go on. morning. good morning. go on. i 'ust wanted to pick— morning. good morning. go on. i 'ust wanted to pick out i morning. good morning. go on. i 'ust wanted to pick out on i morning. good morning. go on. i 'ust wanted to pick out on the i morning. good morning. go on. i 'ust wanted to pick out on the fact i morning. good morning. go on. ijust wanted to pick out on the fact that. wanted to pick out on the fact that when _ wanted to pick out on the fact that when i _ wanted to pick out on the fact that when i saw— wanted to pick out on the fact that when i saw that interview before with amot— when i saw that interview before with amol rajan and the fact phillip has raised — with amol rajan and the fact phillip has raised the point of the homophobia thing saying, you know, if it was— homophobia thing saying, you know, if it was the — homophobia thing saying, you know, if it was the other way round it wouldn't — if it was the other way round it wouldn't be a problem, and an older man with _ wouldn't be a problem, and an older man with a _ wouldn't be a problem, and an older man with a younger woman. i actually disagree _ man with a younger woman. i actually disagree with that to a degree. i think— disagree with that to a degree. i think men— disagree with that to a degree. i think men are notjust disagree with that to a degree. i think men are not just the disagree with that to a degree. i think men are notjust the same. they— think men are notjust the same. they get— think men are notjust the same. they get called dirty old men and if it was— they get called dirty old men and if it was the _ they get called dirty old men and if it was the same, a 20—year—old woman with a _ it was the same, a 20—year—old woman with a 55—year—old man. here it was the same, a 20-year-old woman with a 55-year-old man.— with a 55-year-old man. here is a text for you- _ with a 55-year-old man. here is a text for you. the _ with a 55-year-old man. here is a text for you. the public _ with a 55-year-old man. here is a text for you. the public lynching i with a 55-year-old man. here is al text for you. the public lynching of phillip schofield is appalling and it amounts to nothing more than

homophobia and is fuelled by hypocrites. that is a text. gosh, cosh. i hypocrites. that is a text. gosh, gosh- i think _ hypocrites. that is a text. gosh, gosh. i think that's _ hypocrites. that is a text. gosh, gosh. i think that's very - hypocrites. that is a text. gosh, gosh. i think that's very drastic. | gosh. i think that's very drastic. because — gosh. i think that's very drastic. because i— gosh. i think that's very drastic. because i do think that men always have had _ because i do think that men always have had the same hard time, haven't they? _ have had the same hard time, haven't they? they— have had the same hard time, haven't they? they get called dirty old men. to me _ they? they get called dirty old men. to me that's a bit drastic. i'm not saying _ to me that's a bit drastic. i'm not saying i'm — to me that's a bit drastic. i'm not saying i'm for the fact that, you know. _ saying i'm for the fact that, you know. he — saying i'm for the fact that, you know, he might be pulling out this homophobia card. i'm not saying that, _ homophobia card. i'm not saying that, trut— homophobia card. i'm not saying that, but i— homophobia card. i'm not saying that, but i still think, do you know what _ that, but i still think, do you know what i _ that, but i still think, do you know what i mean, ijust think, i'm not sure _ what i mean, ijust think, i'm not sure about — what i mean, ijust think, i'm not sure about that one. stay what i mean, ijust think, i'm not sure about that one.— what i mean, ijust think, i'm not sure about that one. stay there. we have heard — sure about that one. stay there. we have heard what _ sure about that one. stay there. we have heard what you _ sure about that one. stay there. we have heard what you think - sure about that one. stay there. we have heard what you think about. sure about that one. stay there. we | have heard what you think about the text. i wonder what you think about what you'll hear from erica. ngh. text. i wonder what you think about what you'll hearfrom erica. ngh. i what you'll hear from erica. ugh. i don't know— what you'll hear from erica. ugh. i don't know if— what you'll hear from erica. ugh. i don't know if you _ what you'll hear from erica. ugh. i don't know if you know each other. erica in kent. what do you think? i erica in kent. what do you think? i think it's really sad. he has done absolutely— think it's really sad. he has done absolutely nothing _ think it's really sad. he has done

absolutely nothing wrong. - think it's really sad. he has done absolutely nothing wrong. he - think it's really sad. he has done| absolutely nothing wrong. he has explained — absolutely nothing wrong. he has explained what _ absolutely nothing wrong. he has explained what has _ absolutely nothing wrong. he has explained what has happened. i absolutely nothing wrong. he has . explained what has happened. which he really— explained what has happened. which he really shouldn't _ explained what has happened. which he really shouldn't have _ explained what has happened. which he really shouldn't have had - explained what has happened. which he really shouldn't have had to - he really shouldn't have had to because — he really shouldn't have had to because it's _ he really shouldn't have had to because it's private _ he really shouldn't have had to because it's private between . he really shouldn't have had to . because it's private between him he really shouldn't have had to - because it's private between him and someone _ because it's private between him and someone else — because it's private between him and someone else he _ because it's private between him and someone else. he has— because it's private between him and someone else. he has explained - because it's private between him and someone else. he has explained it. someone else. he has explained it was between — someone else. he has explained it was between two _ someone else. he has explained it was between two consensual- someone else. he has explained it i was between two consensual adults. and why _ was between two consensual adults. and why he — was between two consensual adults. and why he has _ was between two consensual adults. and why he has had _ was between two consensual adults. and why he has had to— was between two consensual adults. and why he has had to explain- was between two consensual adults. and why he has had to explain his i and why he has had to explain his actions _ and why he has had to explain his actions is — and why he has had to explain his actions is beyond _ and why he has had to explain his actions is beyond me. _ and why he has had to explain his actions is beyond me. i— and why he has had to explain his actions is beyond me. ijust- and why he has had to explain his actions is beyond me. ijust feeli and why he has had to explain hisi actions is beyond me. ijust feel so very sorry— actions is beyond me. ijust feel so very sorry for — actions is beyond me. ijust feel so very sorry for him _ actions is beyond me. ijust feel so very sorry for him and _ actions is beyond me. ijust feel so very sorry for him and his - actions is beyond me. ijust feel so very sorry for him and his family i very sorry for him and his family and the — very sorry for him and his family and the other— very sorry for him and his family and the other person. _ very sorry for him and his family and the other person. it- very sorry for him and his family and the other person. it is- very sorry for him and his family i and the other person. it is shocking all this— and the other person. it is shocking all this attention _ and the other person. it is shocking all this attention has _ and the other person. it is shocking all this attention has been - and the other person. it is shockingj all this attention has been mounted on him _ all this attention has been mounted on him. thousands, _ all this attention has been mounted on him. thousands, millions- all this attention has been mounted on him. thousands, millions of- on him. thousands, millions of people — on him. thousands, millions of peopte have _ on him. thousands, millions of people have affairs _ on him. thousands, millions of people have affairs every i on him. thousands, millions of people have affairs every day. i on him. thousands, millions of| people have affairs every day. it on him. thousands, millions of. people have affairs every day. it is private. _ people have affairs every day. it is private. that's— people have affairs every day. it is private, that's why _ people have affairs every day. it is private, that's why it's _ people have affairs every day. it is private, that's why it's called i private, that's why it's called affairs — private, that's why it's called affairs it— private, that's why it's called affairs. it should _ private, that's why it's called affairs. it should be - private, that's why it's called. affairs. it should be consigned private, that's why it's called i affairs. it should be consigned to the memory— affairs. it should be consigned to the memory box. _ affairs. it should be consigned to the memory box. i— affairs. it should be consigned to the memory box. ithink- affairs. it should be consigned to the memory box. i think it's i affairs. it should be consigned to. the memory box. i think it's really sad _ the memory box. i think it's really sad its— the memory box. i think it's really sad. it's something _ the memory box. i think it's really sad. it's something people - the memory box. i think it's really sad. it's something people do, i the memory box. i think it's really. sad. it's something people do, they work through— sad. it's something people do, they work through it _ sad. it's something people do, they work through it and _ sad. it's something people do, they work through it and then _ sad. it's something people do, they work through it and then it - sad. it's something people do, they work through it and then it is - work through it and then it is finished _ work through it and then it is finished and _ work through it and then it is finished and done _ work through it and then it is finished and done with. i work through it and then it is finished and done with. andl work through it and then it is i finished and done with. and then it isjust— finished and done with. and then it isiust a _ finished and done with. and then it isiust a memory _ finished and done with. and then it isjust a memory. i— finished and done with. and then it isjust a memory. i think— finished and done with. and then it isjust a memory. i think it- finished and done with. and then it isjust a memory. i think it is- finished and done with. and then it isjust a memory. i think it is so. isjust a memory. i think it is so very— isjust a memory. i think it is so very sad — isjust a memory. i think it is so very sad because _ isjust a memory. i think it is so very sad because he _ isjust a memory. i think it is so very sad because he has - isjust a memory. i think it is so very sad because he has done i very sad because he has done absolutely— very sad because he has done absolutely nothing _ very sad because he has done absolutely nothing wrong. it i very sad because he has done| absolutely nothing wrong. it is shocking — absolutely nothing wrong. it is shocking and _ absolutely nothing wrong. it is shocking and i— absolutely nothing wrong. it is shocking and i will _ absolutely nothing wrong. it is shocking and i will miss - absolutely nothing wrong. it is shocking and i will miss him i absolutely nothing wrong. it is i shocking and i will miss him very much _ shocking and i will miss him very much because _ shocking and i will miss him very much because he _ shocking and i will miss him very much because he and _ shocking and i will miss him very much because he and holly- shocking and i will miss him very much because he and holly werej much because he and holly were brilliant — much because he and holly were brilliant together— much because he and holly were brilliant together on— much because he and holly were brilliant together on this - much because he and holly were i brilliant together on this morning. he is— brilliant together on this morning. he is a _ brilliant together on this morning. he is a brilliant— brilliant together on this morning. he is a brilliant presenter, - brilliant together on this morning. he is a brilliant presenter, no- he is a brilliant presenter, no doubt about that. a great

interviewer and brilliant presenter. it is no good assuming we know... what _ it is no good assuming we know... wha- . it is no good assuming we know... wha | ., ., , ., it is no good assuming we know... what what about the power differential, _ what what about the power differential, the _ what what about the power differential, the fact - what what about the power differential, the fact there l what what about the power i differential, the fact there was same age and power differential? i same age and power differential? i think you can apply that to any affair, — think you can apply that to any affair, any— think you can apply that to any affair, any situation, _ think you can apply that to any affair, any situation, there i think you can apply that to any affair, any situation, there is i think you can apply that to any affair, any situation, there is a difference _ affair, any situation, there is a difference of— affair, any situation, there is a difference of power— affair, any situation, there is a difference of power between . affair, any situation, there is a i difference of power between people but i difference of power between people but i think— difference of power between people but i think it — difference of power between people but i think it is _ difference of power between people but i think it is a — difference of power between people but i think it is a fact— difference of power between people but i think it is a fact of— difference of power between people but i think it is a fact of life. - difference of power between people but i think it is a fact of life. it- but i think it is a fact of life. it isjust— but i think it is a fact of life. it isjust something _ but i think it is a fact of life. it is just something people i but i think it is a fact of life. it isjust something people go. but i think it is a fact of life. it- isjust something people go through. i isjust something people go through. i don't _ isjust something people go through. idon't think— isjust something people go through. i don't think anything _ isjust something people go through. i don't think anything was _ isjust something people go through. i don't think anything was done i i don't think anything was done wrong — i don't think anything was done wrong here, _ i don't think anything was done wrong here, that's _ i don't think anything was done wrong here, that's what - i don't think anything was done wrong here, that's what i'm i i don't think anything was done i wrong here, that's what i'm trying to get— wrong here, that's what i'm trying to get over — wrong here, that's what i'm trying to get over i_ wrong here, that's what i'm trying to get over. i don't— wrong here, that's what i'm trying to get over. i don't think- wrong here, that's what i'm trying to get over. i don't think actuallyi to get over. i don't think actually anything — to get over. i don't think actually anything was _ to get over. i don't think actually anything was wrong. _ to get over. i don't think actually anything was wrong. they - to get over. i don't think actually anything was wrong. theyjust i to get over. i don't think actually i anything was wrong. theyjust want to be _ anything was wrong. theyjust want to be left— anything was wrong. theyjust want to be left alone _ anything was wrong. theyjust want to be left alone and _ anything was wrong. theyjust want to be left alone and recover- anything was wrong. theyjust want to be left alone and recover from i to be left alone and recover from this dreadful— to be left alone and recover from this dreadful trauma _ to be left alone and recover from this dreadful trauma they - to be left alone and recover from this dreadful trauma they are i to be left alone and recover from i this dreadful trauma they are now going _ this dreadful trauma they are now going through _ this dreadful trauma they are now going through age _ this dreadful trauma they are now going through. age difference, i this dreadful trauma they are now going through. age difference, so many— going through. age difference, so many people _ going through. age difference, so many peopte have _ going through. age difference, so many people have age _ going through. age difference, so many people have age difference i going through. age difference, so i many people have age difference and why are _ many people have age difference and why are we _ many people have age difference and why are we even _ many people have age difference and why are we even discussing _ many people have age difference and why are we even discussing that? i why are we even discussing that? thank— why are we even discussing that? thank you. — why are we even discussing that? thank you. eric _ why are we even discussing that? thank you, eric. janine. - why are we even discussing that? thank you, eric. janine. jake i thank you, eric. janine. jake kanter, former media correspondent at the times newspaper. why are we

discussing this and why is it a story? i discussing this and why is it a sto ? ~ . �* , . discussing this and why is it a sto ? ~ . �*, . story? i think that's a good question- _ story? i think that's a good question. for— story? i think that's a good question. for me - story? i think that's a good question. for me this - story? i think that's a good question. for me this all. story? i think that's a good - question. for me this all comes back to what is essentially potential abuse of power here. that is a hugely important topic particularly with regard to media companies and broadcasters like itv. if you think about this in the context of the me too movement and the harvey weinstein scandal, there are similar issues here. the relationships between powerful individuals in the media and young potentially vulnerable colleagues is no longer acceptable. and the duty to make sure that doesn't happen falls on the individuals involved and also on the individuals involved and also on the media companies. and there are

questions here, clearly questions for phillip schofield, which he has answered. he has given, i guess, his truth, in modern parlance, to amol rajan and the sun. and there is responsibility here on itv. and i think really interestingly his interview raises questions for itv that they will need to answer in the fullness of time as well. piers morn an fullness of time as well. piers morgan has — fullness of time as well. piers morgan has tweeted. - fullness of time as well. piers morgan has tweeted.. - fullness of time as well. piers morgan has tweeted.. unless| fullness of time as well. piers morgan has tweeted.. unless phillip schofield and his young lover contradict each other, it is time to stop the relentless persecution of a guy who looks on the edge for me. he has not committed any crime and he is not a government minister. it is is not a government minister. it is clear he is — is not a government minister. it 3 clear he is garnering a bit of support. piers morgan wasn't the only big name to offer their support

this morning. i saw a tweet from richard bacon last night to say it is time to stop piling on to this human being. is time to stop piling on to this human being-— is time to stop piling on to this human bein. �* . . ., , human being. and richard has been throu~h a human being. and richard has been through a similar _ human being. and richard has been through a similar thing _ human being. and richard has been through a similar thing when - human being. and richard has been through a similar thing when he - human being. and richard has beeni through a similar thing when he was a blue peter presenter and his cocaine scandal. i have spoken to richard about it and he said it was kind of hell. this richard about it and he said it was kind of hell-— kind of hell. this story has been rumblin: kind of hell. this story has been rumhling on _ kind of hell. this story has been rumbling on for— kind of hell. this story has been rumbling on for the _ kind of hell. this story has been rumbling on for the best - kind of hell. this story has been rumbling on for the best part i kind of hell. this story has been rumbling on for the best part of| kind of hell. this story has been l rumbling on for the best part of a fortnight. i think phillip schofield has tried to wrestle back some control of the narrative. this is a man who understands the optic of television, the theatre of television, the theatre of television, and he is telling his side of the story, his version, and it is clear that is working for some people. it is clear that is working for some eo - le. ., . it is clear that is working for some --eole. .. ., it is clear that is working for some n-eole. ., ., it is clear that is working for some ..eole. ., ., j, ., people. rachel! how are you doing? are ou people. rachel! how are you doing? are you there? _ people. rachel! how are you doing? are you there? yes, _ people. rachel! how are you doing? are you there? yes, i _ people. rachel! how are you doing? are you there? yes, i am. _ people. rachel! how are you doing? are you there? yes, i am. you - people. rachel! how are you doing? are you there? yes, i am. you can l are you there? yes, i am. you can now have _ are you there? yes, i am. you can now have your — are you there? yes, i am. you can now have your say _ are you there? yes, i am. you can now have your say and _ are you there? yes, i am. you can now have your say and tell - are you there? yes, i am. you can | now have your say and tell everyone else. ., ~ now have your say and tell everyone else. . ,, , ., now have your say and tell everyone else. ., ~' ,, ~' , else. thank you. i think phillip schofield has _ else. thank you. i think phillip schofield has done _ else. thank you. i think phillip schofield has done seeminglyl else. thank you. i think phillip - schofield has done seemingly what many— schofield has done seemingly what many people do. they have had a relationship and they have lied to

everyone — relationship and they have lied to everyone around them about it and that is_ everyone around them about it and that is something which sadly in our day and _ that is something which sadly in our day and age is commonplace. since time immemorial. _ day and age is commonplace. since time immemorial. yeah, _ day and age is commonplace. since time immemorial. yeah, exactly. i day and age is commonplace. since l time immemorial. yeah, exactly. but i'm ve time immemorial. yeah, exactly. but im very aware _ time immemorial. yeah, exactly. but im very aware of _ time immemorial. yeah, exactly. but i'm very aware of the _ time immemorial. yeah, exactly. but i'm very aware of the issues - time immemorial. yeah, exactly. but i'm very aware of the issues of - i'm very aware of the issues of safeguarding and holding power. and of course _ safeguarding and holding power. and of course that needs investigating, but it_ of course that needs investigating, but it has_ of course that needs investigating, but it has been done in the wrong way _ but it has been done in the wrong way it_ but it has been done in the wrong way. it should be done through the proper— way. it should be done through the proper channels and it shouldn't be done _ proper channels and it shouldn't be done by— proper channels and it shouldn't be done by the media in front of people like myseif— done by the media in front of people like myself and the television. it's something which has to be done, and i something which has to be done, and i said _ something which has to be done, and i said to _ something which has to be done, and i said to the _ something which has to be done, and i said to the person, i know they are in— i said to the person, i know they are in the — i said to the person, i know they are in the public role in people have _ are in the public role in people have to — are in the public role in people have to he _ are in the public role in people have to be investigated, and it is hard _ have to be investigated, and it is hard and — have to be investigated, and it is hard and painful but it should be done _ hard and painful but it should be done through proper channels and not through— done through proper channels and not through the media. i don't agree with the — through the media. i don't agree with the people who have said phillip — with the people who have said phillip schofield is nowjust trying to cover— phillip schofield is nowjust trying to cover his tracks. i have no idea. i to cover his tracks. i have no idea. i don't _ to cover his tracks. i have no idea. i don't know— to cover his tracks. i have no idea. i don't know the man. i think i feel as everybody does, but i don't know

the man— as everybody does, but i don't know the man and — as everybody does, but i don't know the man and it should be investigated but he needs to have the opportunity to answer the questions in the proper way and in a proper— questions in the proper way and in a proper place. he questions in the proper way and in a proper place-— questions in the proper way and in a proper place. he has done that. what is a --roer proper place. he has done that. what is a proper place. _ proper place. he has done that. what is a proper place, behind _ proper place. he has done that. what is a proper place, behind closed - is a proper place, behind closed doors with a barrister? hat is a proper place, behind closed doors with a barrister? not closed doors, doors with a barrister? not closed doors. no- — doors with a barrister? not closed doors. no- im _ doors with a barrister? not closed doors, no. i'm sure _ doors with a barrister? not closed doors, no. i'm sure the _ doors with a barrister? not closed doors, no. i'm sure the bbc- doors with a barrister? not closed doors, no. i'm sure the bbc and l doors with a barrister? not closed l doors, no. i'm sure the bbc and itv have _ doors, no. i'm sure the bbc and itv have got— doors, no. i'm sure the bbc and itv have got proper procedures for safeguarding. every organisation has to have _ safeguarding. every organisation has to have those in this day and age. they— to have those in this day and age. they should work through those proper— they should work through those proper procedures, not behind closed doors, _ proper procedures, not behind closed doors, but _ proper procedures, not behind closed doors, but out of the lamp light, so to speak, _ doors, but out of the lamp light, so to speak, of— doors, but out of the lamp light, so to speak, of everybody looking. yes, es. the to speak, of everybody looking. yes, yes- the lamp _ to speak, of everybody looking. yes, yes. the lamp light. _ to speak, of everybody looking. yes yes. the lamp light. very well put. can ijust come in. you yes. the lamp light. very well put. can ijust come in.— can i 'ust come in. you are back in the can ijust come in. you are back in the limelight. _ can ijust come in. you are back in the limelight, carry _ can ijust come in. you are back in the limelight, carry on, _ can ijust come in. you are back in the limelight, carry on, jake. - can ijust come in. you are back in the limelight, carry on, jake. i- the limelight, carry on, jake. i think that is a fair point. due process does need to be followed and

itv have hired the services of a barrister to conduct what is essentially a formal investigation. but i wanted to defend the media a little bit because without the media we wouldn't be having this discussion. none of this would have come to light. phillip schofield lied for years about this and it is only because of the fearless reporting from katie hind at the daily mail that he eventually issued a mea culpa and apologised. find daily mail that he eventually issued a mea culpa and apologised. and dan norton as well. _ a mea culpa and apologised. and dan norton as well. -- _ a mea culpa and apologised. and dan norton as well. -- dan _ a mea culpa and apologised. and dan norton as well. -- dan wootton - a mea culpa and apologised. and dan norton as well. -- dan wootton as i norton as well. —— dan wootton as well. who is now at gb news and was with the daily mail and was a contributor to this morning. i can read you the eamonn holmes version of events and some of the text. schofield has finally been caught out but he is not the only guilty party. four members of the itv management knew what sort of man he was. they never stopped him taking

action of his role of young people. this is for all my work mates over the years who were frightened for you and your controlling behaviour. that is ahead of eamonn holmes up is of the interview with dan wootton on bbc news. a couple more, schofield has put out a delusional statement, like holly. he puts it on instagram and there is no record after 2a hours. one more, ruth and i deceived and lied to. one day i will tell the story of a stop we have no issue with being gay, only support will stop what transpired took us for fools. the man told us complete lies and we unfortunately believed him. as you say, jake, they have different truths, in the modern parlance.

different truths, in the modern arlance. , . ., , different truths, in the modern arlance. , . . , . ., ., ,�* parlance. yes, clearly eamon holmes' interview with — parlance. yes, clearly eamon holmes' interview with gb _ parlance. yes, clearly eamon holmes' interview with gb news _ parlance. yes, clearly eamon holmes' interview with gb news and _ parlance. yes, clearly eamon holmes' interview with gb news and his - parlance. yes, clearly eamon holmes' interview with gb news and his own i interview with gb news and his own activity on social media has raised serious questions for phillip schofield. i can't help but feel there is an element of personal grudge match going on between the two of them. i think that has probably fanned the flames of the story. as far as itv is concerned, like i say, they have hired this barrister who will come in and ask the right people the right questions, hopefully. ithink the right people the right questions, hopefully. i think one of the really interesting things that came out of the interview with amol rajan is that he basically said the investigation that itv did in 2020 into all of this wasn't formal and that it was just involving some phone calls in which phillip schofield and the young man who he was involved with both denied any relationship. it doesn't sound like

itv did a particularly thorough job. hence the young man saying there was no investigation. that might be the grey area business. tina in northwich. have a quick say, a word in our ear. northwich. have a quick say, a word in our ear-— in our ear. good morning. i 'ust wanted to fl in our ear. good morning. i 'ust wanted to say. i in our ear. good morning. i 'ust wanted to say, i i in our ear. good morning. i 'ust wanted to say, i watched h in our ear. good morning. ijust wanted to say, i watched the i wanted to say, i watched the interview _ wanted to say, i watched the interview. he _ wanted to say, i watched the interview. he comes - wanted to say, i watched the interview. he comes across i wanted to say, i watched the. interview. he comes across to wanted to say, i watched the - interview. he comes across to me as though— interview. he comes across to me as though he _ interview. he comes across to me as though he is— interview. he comes across to me as though he is on— interview. he comes across to me as though he is on the _ interview. he comes across to me as though he is on the tt_ interview. he comes across to me as though he is on the tt park. - interview. he comes across to me as though he is on the tt park. he - interview. he comes across to me as though he is on the tt park. he is. though he is on the tt park. he is feeling _ though he is on the tt park. he is feeling very— though he is on the tt park. he is feeling very sorry _ though he is on the tt park. he is feeling very sorry for _ though he is on the tt park. he is feeling very sorry for himself. - though he is on the tt park. he is feeling very sorry for himself. hei feeling very sorry for himself. he is hringing — feeling very sorry for himself. he is hringing up— feeling very sorry for himself. he is bringing up other— feeling very sorry for himself. he is bringing up other people - feeling very sorry for himself. he is bringing up other people i- feeling very sorry for himself. hei is bringing up other people i don't think— is bringing up other people i don't think he _ is bringing up other people i don't think he should, _ is bringing up other people i don't think he should, like _ is bringing up other people i don't think he should, like a _ is bringing up other people i don't think he should, like a caroline i think he should, like a caroline flack — think he should, like a caroline flack she _ think he should, like a caroline flack. she was _ think he should, like a caroline flack. she was a _ think he should, like a caroline flack. she was a very- think he should, like a caroline flack. she was a very different| flack. she was a very different person. — flack. she was a very different person. a _ flack. she was a very different person, a different _ flack. she was a very different person, a different problem. l flack. she was a very different i person, a different problem. she flack. she was a very different - person, a different problem. she was treated _ person, a different problem. she was treated badiy— person, a different problem. she was treated badly try— person, a different problem. she was treated badly by tv _ person, a different problem. she was treated badly by tv and _ person, a different problem. she was treated badly by tv and media. - person, a different problem. she was treated badly by tv and media. for. treated badly by tv and media. for what she _ treated badly by tv and media. for what she did — treated badly by tv and media. for what she did. and _ treated badly by tv and media. for what she did. and got _ treated badly by tv and media. for what she did. and got sacked - treated badly by tv and media. for what she did. and got sacked and i treated badly by tv and media. for. what she did. and got sacked and so on. what she did. and got sacked and so on but— what she did. and got sacked and so on but what— what she did. and got sacked and so on but what i— what she did. and got sacked and so on. but what i wanted _ what she did. and got sacked and so on. but what i wanted to _ what she did. and got sacked and so on. but what i wanted to say - what she did. and got sacked and so on. but what i wanted to say was, i on. but what i wanted to say was, his own _ on. but what i wanted to say was, his own treatment _ on. but what i wanted to say was, his own treatment of— on. but what i wanted to say was, his own treatment of people, - on. but what i wanted to say was, his own treatment of people, for. his own treatment of people, for example — his own treatment of people, for example his _ his own treatment of people, for example his interview— his own treatment of people, for example his interview with - his own treatment of people, for example his interview with kerryj example his interview with kerry katona. — example his interview with kerry katona. he — example his interview with kerry katona, he was _ example his interview with kerry katona, he was actually - example his interview with kerry katona, he was actually very- example his interview with kerry.

katona, he was actually very cruel and buiiying — katona, he was actually very cruel and buiiying to— katona, he was actually very cruel and bullying to her. _ katona, he was actually very cruel and bullying to her. and _ katona, he was actually very cruel and bullying to her. and now- katona, he was actually very cruel and bullying to her. and now he i and bullying to her. and now he wants— and bullying to her. and now he wants us— and bullying to her. and now he wants us to _ and bullying to her. and now he wants us to all _ and bullying to her. and now he wants us to all feel— and bullying to her. and now he wants us to all feel sorry - and bullying to her. and now he wants us to all feel sorry for - and bullying to her. and now he. wants us to all feel sorry for him. and he _ wants us to all feel sorry for him. and he is— wants us to all feel sorry for him. and he is trying _ wants us to all feel sorry for him. and he is trying to _ wants us to all feel sorry for him. and he is trying to make - wants us to all feel sorry for him. and he is trying to make out- wants us to all feel sorry for him. i and he is trying to make out about his mentai— and he is trying to make out about his mental health _ and he is trying to make out about his mental health and _ and he is trying to make out about his mental health and blah - and he is trying to make out about his mental health and blah blah i his mental health and blah blah blah _ his mental health and blah blah blah. . �* , , . , , blah. that's when she was slurring and stuff like _ blah. that's when she was slurring and stuff like that, _ blah. that's when she was slurring and stuff like that, and _ blah. that's when she was slurring and stuff like that, and she - blah. that's when she was slurring and stuff like that, and she said i and stuff like that, and she said she hadn't taken her medication. they did make up after that. i she hadn't taken her medication. they did make up after that. i know they made up _ they did make up after that. i know they made up after— they did make up after that. i know they made up after but _ they did make up after that. i know they made up after but at _ they did make up after that. i know they made up after but at the - they did make up after that. i know they made up after but at the time | they made up after but at the time on tv, _ they made up after but at the time on tv, he — they made up after but at the time on tv, he had _ they made up after but at the time on tv, he had little _ they made up after but at the time on tv, he had little or— they made up after but at the time on tv, he had little or no - they made up after but at the time| on tv, he had little or no sympathy for her~ _ on tv, he had little or no sympathy for her~ so— on tv, he had little or no sympathy for her~ so why _ on tv, he had little or no sympathy for her. so why should _ on tv, he had little or no sympathy for her. so why should we - on tv, he had little or no sympathy for her. so why should we now - on tv, he had little or no sympathy for her. so why should we now feel| for her. so why should we now feel sympathy— for her. so why should we now feel sympathy for — for her. so why should we now feel sympathy for him? _ for her. so why should we now feel sympathy for him? it _ for her. so why should we now feel sympathy for him? it just - for her. so why should we now feel sympathy for him? it just feels - for her. so why should we now feelj sympathy for him? it just feels like he is on the — sympathy for him? it just feels like he is on the pity— sympathy for him? it just feels like he is on the pity pot. _ sympathy for him? it just feels like he is on the pity pot. the _ sympathy for him? it 'ust feels like he is on the pity pot.— he is on the pity pot. the pity pot, that's a phrase. _ he is on the pity pot. the pity pot, that's a phrase. thank _ he is on the pity pot. the pity pot, that's a phrase. thank you - he is on the pity pot. the pity pot, that's a phrase. thank you to - he is on the pity pot. the pity pot, that's a phrase. thank you to tina | that's a phrase. thank you to tina and everybody. it's about your opinion is. in fairness to eamon holmes and ruth langford, they have keptin holmes and ruth langford, they have kept in touch with the young men and are showing their own personal duty of care to him. i know ruth has been

very friendly to him over the years as well. more of your views to come, please. bbc news and bbc two will be leaving 5 live shortly and you will be able to see the entire interview with phillip schofield that is also on bbc iplayer. on 5 live we will continue to get your reaction over the next hour this friday morning. live from london. you're watching bbc news. as you've been hearing with nicky campbell, our media editor amol rajan has been speaking to former this morning presenter phillip schofield about the controversy over his departure from itv and his relationship with a young junior colleague. in the interview, phillip schofield has denied being a groomer and said he's lost everything and apologised for lying about the relationship when itv tried to investigate it. this is the full interview now. few people know the power of

television testimony like phillip schofield. for more than a0 years, he has been central to our national life. ., , ~' , he has been central to our national life. ., ~ , .,, ., life. last week he left his 'ob on this morning i life. last week he left his 'ob on this morning on i life. last week he left his 'ob on this morning on itv fl life. last week he left his 'ob on this morning on itv and h life. last week he left his job on this morning on itv and that. life. last week he left his job on this morning on itv and that a l life. last week he left his job on - this morning on itv and that a blaze of headlines and allegations. in response to newspaper inquiries, phillip schofield has now admitted he had an unwise and illegal relationship —— but not illegal relationship —— but not illegal relationship with the young man. phillip schofield says the young man was 20 when the relationship became sexual. there has been an avalanche of stories and social media speculation and abuse. now phillip schofield wants to tell his side of the story and i want to ask him some questions on your behalf. thank you for speaking to me on to the bbc, phillip. you've had quite the week. how are you? um...| think...

it's like a weird numbness. i know that's a selfish point of view. but you come to a point where you just think, how much are you supposed to take? if all of those people write all of that stuff, do they ever think that there is actually a person at the other end? and so... ..here|am... are you feeling ok to do this? are you feeling strong enough to do this interview? yeah, i have to. why? why do you want to do this interview? because there is an innocent person

here, who didn't do anything wrong, who is vulnerable and probably feels like i do. a lot of my questions are going to be uncomfortable, and, let's face it, intrusive, but you've chosen this opportunity to tell your side of the story, and there are questions that your viewers, all the people who have supported you over the years, including your family, will want answers to. also of course lots of questions for itv in all this. you mentioned this young man, and at the centre of recent events is a young man who, together with many others in the media, we are not going to name. you know, under article 8 of the human rights act, he has a right to privacy. and he's not here today to give his own account of events. when did you last speak to him? as i engaged the lawyerfor him. so, he needed independent support, and so that was the last time. is that a few weeks ago now?

couple of weeks. what are you paying for the legal advice? ok. when did you first meet this young man in question? what were the circumstances? i was invited by a friend of mine to go to school, something i have done dozens of times. will you follow him on twitter, he is a fan? i said, no problem, so i did. and he was, what, 15 at the time? yeah. ifollow 11,300 people, and in all the time i've been on twitter, there has never been any whiff of impropriety. he followed you on twitter, you followed him back. did you have direct message exchange of any kind? hardly at all. just on and off. and

then he asked if he could visit the studios, work experience type of thing. i said, come down, have a look, for sure. which he did. how old was he when he first said to you, i'm interested in television? was he 18 by that point? i9, 19 i would think. he was 19 by then. when he said, could i have work experience, olderthan when he said, could i have work experience, older than 19? more or less the same _ experience, older than 19? more or less the same time. _ experience, older than 19? more or less the same time. you _ experience, older than 19? more or less the same time. you said, - experience, older than 19? more or| less the same time. you said, sure, come and have _ less the same time. you said, sure, come and have a _ less the same time. you said, sure, come and have a look? _ less the same time. you said, sure, come and have a look? i— less the same time. you said, sure, come and have a look? i have - less the same time. you said, sure, come and have a look? i have done | less the same time. you said, sure, l come and have a look? i have done it all my life- — come and have a look? i have done it all my life- i— come and have a look? i have done it all my the lam _ come and have a look? i have done it all my life. i am best _ come and have a look? i have done it all my life. i am best friends - come and have a look? i have done it all my life. i am best friends with - all my life. i am best friends with the people who got me into television. i have always believed in paying it forward. that was my... i didn't think about it. when you look back now, if you were to look back at those messages now, is there any sense in which you were flirting with him? no. i've been a1 years in television.

you know, nothing like this before. no accusations. this is all, you know, accusations. i want to put them to you. if you are brutally honest now, think back, are brutally honest now, think back, a lot has happened since then, a long time ago, if you think back to the initial interactions, was there any element of it which was sexual? no macrae. at, any element of it which was sexual? no macrae. �* , ., any element of it which was sexual? no macrae— any element of it which was sexual? no macrae. �* , ., ., , . , . , no macrae. a period of several years when ou no macrae. a period of several years when you didn't _ no macrae. a period of several years when you didn't meet _ no macrae. a period of several years when you didn't meet him? - no macrae. a period of several years when you didn't meet him? yeah, i l when you didn't meet him? yeah, i hadn't seen — when you didn't meet him? yeah, i hadn't seen him. _ when you didn't meet him? yeah, i hadn't seen him. when _ when you didn't meet him? yeah, i hadn't seen him. when you - when you didn't meet him? yeah, i hadn't seen him. when you met i when you didn't meet him? yeah, i | hadn't seen him. when you met him when you didn't meet him? yeah, i i hadn't seen him. when you met him in terson and hadn't seen him. when you met him in person and l— hadn't seen him. when you met him in person and l was— hadn't seen him. when you met him in person and i was there _ hadn't seen him. when you met him in person and i was there a _ hadn't seen him. when you met him in person and i was there a little - person and i was there a little moment of sexual attraction will then even? absolutely not. 0k. so, to be absolutely clear, how old was this young man when you first had any kind of sexual contact with him? 20. i mean, this is obviously the nub of it, and for the record, and to put speculation to rest,

let me ask you directly, did you have any kind of sexual relationship or sex with him when he was underage? no. god, no. i think that is, you know... in my statement, it says, you know, consensual relationship, fully legal. i mean, that was approved by both sides, you know? no, no. when he got work experience at this morning, 20 years old at this stage, someone who has come in... br; morning, 20 years old at this stage, someone who has come in... by that state, at someone who has come in... by that stage. at 20. — someone who has come in... by that stage. at 20. he _ someone who has come in... by that stage, at 20, he came _ someone who has come in... by that stage, at 20, he came in _ someone who has come in... by that stage, at 20, he came in for - someone who has come in... by that stage, at 20, he came in for a - stage, at 20, he came in for a visit, we went out, he was going to be picked up, i was worried he might be picked up, i was worried he might be on his own, i said, let's go out for a bite to eat. it wasn't a meal, waiting for someone to pick him up. don't worry, don't go out on your own, he picked up. that don't worry, don't go out on your own, be picked up.— don't worry, don't go out on your own, be picked up. at that point, ou want own, be picked up. at that point, you want in _ own, be picked up. at that point, you want in a _ own, be picked up. at that point, you want in a relationship? - own, be picked up. at that point, you want in a relationship? no, l own, be picked up. at that point, - you want in a relationship? no, god, no. how you want in a relationship? no, god, no- how long — you want in a relationship? no, god, no. how long after _ you want in a relationship? no, god, no. how long after that _ you want in a relationship? no, god, no. how long after that was - you want in a relationship? no, god, no. how long after that was it - you want in a relationship? no, god, no. how long after that was it you i no. how long after that was it you had the beginnings _ no. how long after that was it you had the beginnings of _ no. how long after that was it you had the beginnings of a _ no. how long after that was it you had the beginnings of a sexual- had the beginnings of a sexual relationship with him? he had the beginnings of a sexual relationship with him?- had the beginnings of a sexual relationship with him? he had been workint at

relationship with him? he had been working at the _ relationship with him? he had been working at the show _ relationship with him? he had been working at the show for _ relationship with him? he had been working at the show for a _ relationship with him? he had been working at the show for a few - working at the show for a few months. and we'd become mates. we were mates, and around the studios, you hang out together, you know, you chat with each other, that sort of stuff. and then in my dressing room one day... ..something happened. which, you know, obviously, i will regret for ever, for him and for me. mostly him. but that happened maybe four or five times over the next few months. and i know it's unforgivable.

but we weren't boyfriends. we weren't in a relationship. i was really in a mess with my own sexuality at the time. and it just happened. how old was he at this stage? 20,21. how else were you trying to help him? what else were you trying to do him? what else were you trying to do him with this morning? did you help him with this morning? did you help him with this morning? did you help him with a show reel? did you help him with a show reel? did you help him meet people? i him with a show reel? did you help him meet people?— him meet people? i helped him. i think this might _ him meet people? i helped him. i think this might have _ him meet people? i helped him. i think this might have been - him meet people? i helped him. i think this might have been beforej think this might have been before there had been any contact. i helped him put a show reel together. shatter him put a show reel together. after he tets him put a show reel together. after he gets experience _ him put a show reel together. after he gets experience at _ him put a show reel together. after he gets experience at this morning... he gets experience at this morning- - -_ he gets experience at this mornint... ., . he gets experience at this mornint . .. ., ., . .,, . morning... he now has a “ob, given a 'ob on his morning... he now has a “ob, given a job on his own * morning... he now has a “ob, given a job on his own merits — morning... he now has ajob, given a job on his own merits because - morning... he now has ajob, given a job on his own merits because he - morning... he now has ajob, given a| job on his own merits because he was very good at his job. everybody loved him. and worked very, very

hard. ., loved him. and worked very, very hard. . ., , ., , ., , hard. clear from the testimony lots of tteole hard. clear from the testimony lots of people have _ hard. clear from the testimony lots of people have given _ hard. clear from the testimony lots of people have given him, - hard. clear from the testimony lots of people have given him, hugely l of people have given him, hugely talented, capable. massively talented. what happened after the moment in the dressing room, before we go to that, you were very specific in your wording about how the relationship was unwise but not illegal, the question centres around the relationship with him before 18, be really clear, the relationship between 15 and 18, occasional direct messages, no pictures, occasional direct messages, you would say it wasn't really flirtatious at all? just work related, career advice, career help. just work related, career advice, career help-— just work related, career advice, career hel. ,, . ., . , , . career help. sexual forwardness at all in any of _ career help. sexual forwardness at all in any of that _ career help. sexual forwardness at all in any of that stuff? _ career help. sexual forwardness at all in any of that stuff? 0k. - career help. sexual forwardness at all in any of that stuff? 0k. how. all in any of that stuff? ok. how long did you have a relationship with him that was sexual in nature? it probably happened five times,

maybe six times. nothing more than that. ~ , ., maybe six times. nothing more than that. ~ . ., , , that. when did your relationship with him and — that. when did your relationship with him and and _ that. when did your relationship with him and and why? - that. when did your relationship with him and and why? i - that. when did your relationship with him and and why? i was i that. when did your relationship with him and and why? i was at| that. when did your relationship i with him and and why? i was at the time really — with him and and why? i was at the time really beginning _ with him and and why? i was at the time really beginning to _ with him and and why? i was at the time really beginning to get - with him and and why? i was at the time really beginning to get into i with him and and why? i was at the time really beginning to get into al time really beginning to get into a very poor mental state with my own sexuality. —— when did your relationship with him end? and i think itjust sort of... drifted. we still state mates, we are still mates, still stayed friendly and i got him work because obviously you are living in london, struggling, i got him run asjobs on other are living in london, struggling, i got him run as jobs on other shows are living in london, struggling, i got him run asjobs on other shows i did because he was a very good

runner and a mate and someone you know, always nice to have a team of people around you you know. and did you ever tell holly willoughby? no. god, no. that's a bigger question, because we have... our make—up room was like a sanctuary. has always been a sanctuary. so you tell everything in that room. holly knows everything about me, i know everything about holly. when the door is closed, that is the sanctuary. it is a wonderful, wonderful environment and something i will miss deeply. i don't know whether holly ever asked, she might have done, but i would have denied it. holly did not know. nobody knew. this has been the cataclysm of the lie. it starts in a denial. no, no.

not at all. and the rumour came out, the rumour started. and you lie. you have had a workplace fling, you lie about it. a great many people will have had a workplace fling and lied about it. ifully have had a workplace fling and lied about it. i fully appreciate that is about it. i fully appreciate that is a massive age gap but that happens in life as well. i wonder, there had been rumours for years not only about whether you were gay but also about whether you were gay but also about your relationship with this particular young man. did about your relationship with this particular young man. did anyone on the this morning _ particular young man. did anyone on the this morning team _ particular young man. did anyone on the this morning team ask— particular young man. did anyone on the this morning team ask you i the this morning team ask you whether you were gay or in a relationship with this young man? nobody ever asked me about being 9“- nobody ever asked me about being ta. ., , nobody ever asked me about being gay. people ask you about being in a relationship — gay. people ask you about being in a relationship with _ gay. people ask you about being in a relationship with this _ gay. people ask you about being in a relationship with this young - gay. people ask you about being in a relationship with this young man? i relationship with this young man? when the rumour got bigger, we were both asked. ., , ., _ both asked. people would say the circumstances _ both asked. people would say the circumstances are _ both asked. people would say the circumstances are as _ both asked. people would say the

circumstances are as follows. i you met someone who was a child. you were in a position of power over them. you used your power eventually to give them something they craved, which was a shot at a job in the media. you nurtured a relationship and then that relationship became sexual. and they might ask, what's the difference between that and grooming? well, i would say that the initial list of things was not right anyway. tell me, why? because it was a totally innocent picture, a totally innocent twitter follow, of which i follow 11,a00 people. and then it was a completely innocent backwards and forwards over a period of time about a job, about careers. what's wrong with talking to someone, no matter, you know, what age they are? does that mean if you are following anyone on twitter that you absolutely don't talk to anybody else or you don't give advice? so i disagree with the summation that you just gave. because that does paint a very grave picture.

why do you say it was unwise? you are clearly sensitive to the power differential and you are clearly mindful of the dangers of abuse. the brief mindful of the dangers of abuse. tue: brief communications mindful of the dangers of abuse. tts: brief communications backwards mindful of the dangers of abuse. t"t9: brief communications backwards and forwards up to the point that he came to work on this morning i think wasjust chat. what came to work on this morning i think was just chat. what was unwise was the fact that it happened. and that was a very, very grave error. it was consensual, but it was my fault. why? t consensual, but it was my fault. wh ? , :, :, :, :, why? i should not have done it, i shouldn't have _ why? i should not have done it, i shouldn't have done _ why? i should not have done it, i shouldn't have done it, _ why? i should not have done it, i shouldn't have done it, entirely l shouldn't have done it, entirely my... he is an innocent party. i appreciate how there was a moment, you have a moment, just the moment. but he is entirely and completely innocent. although it was consensual, i was older, i should have known better, i shouldn't have

done it. ~ :, have known better, i shouldn't have doneit. . ,,: ~, have known better, i shouldn't have doneit. :, ,,: , :, have known better, i shouldn't have doneit. . ,_ ..y done it. what specifically do you feel ou done it. what specifically do you feel you did _ done it. what specifically do you feel you did that _ done it. what specifically do you feel you did that was _ done it. what specifically do you feel you did that was wrong? i done it. what specifically do you | feel you did that was wrong? i... kissed someone _ feel you did that was wrong? i... kissed someone in _ feel you did that was wrong? t... kissed someone in the workplace which led onto a little bit more. and that retrospectively of course, you think, my friends have said, what the hell were you thinking? you don't do that. you've never done that. and i think there is no excuse. i don't put... there are no excuses here. i am... excuse. i don't put... there are no excuses here. iam... it excuse. i don't put... there are no excuses here. i am... it is my fault. but i think the fact that perhaps i was trying to come to terms with who i was, what i was going to do about it, the effects it

would have... ithink going to do about it, the effects it would have... i think that's probably the reason. find would have... i think that's probably the reason. and do you feel, 'ust probably the reason. and do you feel, just listening _ probably the reason. and do you feel, just listening to _ probably the reason. and do you feel, just listening to how- probably the reason. and do you feel, just listening to how you i probably the reason. and do you i feel, just listening to how you talk about it, do you feel that what was morally wrong about it was because it involved an abuse of power, you are an older guy who had more power? that criticism has been levelled at me, but i have never done that in my whole life, never abused my power anywhere, i am whole life, never abused my power anywhere, iam not whole life, never abused my power anywhere, i am not a bully, whole life, never abused my power anywhere, iam not a bully, i don't... you read the things you are supposed to be. i don't load it around tv studios, everyone is a friend, most of the messages i have got all people i have worked with same, my god, i can't believe they are saying this, we love working with you. i snapped once around the time i was coming out, i snapped at a producer and after the meeting i

immediately got up and went to her and apologised. it is not me, i don't do that, i am not rude on the studio floor, i don't bully people, we are all very on one level team and that has been the important thing for me in a1 years of television. t thing for me in 41 years of television.— thing for me in a1 years of television. .. , :, , television. i can see how extremely concerned you _ television. i can see how extremely concerned you are _ television. i can see how extremely concerned you are for _ television. i can see how extremely concerned you are for the _ television. i can see how extremely concerned you are for the welfare l television. i can see how extremely| concerned you are for the welfare of this young man. did you love him? no, we werejust this young man. did you love him? no, we were just mates. this young man. did you love him? no, we werejust mates. we this young man. did you love him? no, we were just mates. we were mates. d0 no, we were 'ust mates. we were mates. , :, no, we were 'ust mates. we were mates. i. ~ :, ., no, we were 'ust mates. we were mates. ~ :, , mates. do you know if he has signed a nondisclosure _ mates. do you know if he has signed a nondisclosure agreement - mates. do you know if he has signed i a nondisclosure agreement preventing him from speaking? the. t a nondisclosure agreement preventing him from speaking?— him from speaking? no. i was asked that earlier on. _ him from speaking? no. i was asked that earlier on. did _ him from speaking? no. i was asked that earlier on. did i _ him from speaking? no. i was asked that earlier on. did i make _ him from speaking? no. i was asked that earlier on. did i make him i him from speaking? no. i was asked that earlier on. did i make him signl that earlier on. did i make him sign an nda? ~ , :, ,. an nda? absolutely not. there is a tuestion an nda? absolutely not. there is a question whether _ an nda? absolutely not. there is a question whether he _ an nda? absolutely not. there is a question whether he was _ an nda? absolutely not. there is a question whether he was paid i an nda? absolutely not. there is a question whether he was paid off, l an nda? absolutely not. there is a. question whether he was paid off, in effect if he was paid off, paid for his silence?— effect if he was paid off, paid for his silence?- is - effect if he was paid off, paid for his silence?- is he i effect if he was paid off, paid for his silence?- is he free l effect if he was paid off, paid for| his silence?- is he free to his silence? god no. is he free to steak? his silence? god no. is he free to speak? yes- _ his silence? god no. is he free to speak? yes. what _ his silence? god no. is he free to speak? yes. what he _ his silence? god no. is he free to speak? yes. what he wants i his silence? god no. is he free to speak? yes. what he wants is i his silence? god no. is he free toj speak? yes. what he wants is for his silence? god no. is he free to i speak? yes. what he wants is for all of this to go — speak? yes. what he wants is for all

of this to go away. _ he wants a quiet life. he wants all of this to go away. has there ever been, or is there, an injunction or any sort of nda preventing media coverage of your relationship with him? no. when the rumours started and then it came to light and obviously both of us said, what the hell is this? i don't know, i don't know. i said, it will go away. you know, i am sure it will go away. you know, i am sure it will go away. and it started to grow legs and got bigger. it was said there was a super injunction, it was said i had got him fired. moved on. all completely untrue. you work in

television, you know the way the process works. you can't have someone moved on without it going through a whole team of people. the line of command. why would this happen? i actually spoke to him the night before, texted, the night before or the morning i came out and said, i am going to come out tomorrow. my god, amazing, that is brave, well done. i hope it goes ok. he knew about that. he was never going to out me. we were still mates. i think at the time it was written the sun with out me. it is illegal. all of these things started to grow, it got bigger and bigger and bigger. it to grow, it got bigger and bigger and bitter. ., to grow, it got bigger and bigger and bitter. :,, , to grow, it got bigger and bigger and bigger-— and bigger. it has been said that the sun had _ and bigger. it has been said that the sun had a — and bigger. it has been said that the sun had a story, _ and bigger. it has been said that the sun had a story, november. and bigger. it has been said that i the sun had a story, november 2019 approached by a journalist who said he had a story you were in a

relationship with this young man, had been in a relationship with this young man, and the sun knew about it but there is a claim now which i want to invite you to address that the sun knew both things, they knew you were gay and they knew you had a relationship with this young man, but they decided not to do the story about you and the young man in return for the exclusive about you coming out. return for the exclusive about you coming out-— return for the exclusive about you coming out. return for the exclusive about you comint out. :, :, :, :, :, coming out. god, no, no. no, no, no, absolutely _ coming out. god, no, no. no, no, no, absolutely categorically _ coming out. god, no, no. no, no, no, absolutely categorically untrue. i coming out. god, no, no. no, no, no, absolutely categorically untrue. we i absolutely categorically untrue. we had massive meetings about... i had a secret whatsapp group, i had a whatsapp group called the event of which there were a handful of people, my management, closest management, me, and a guy who was sort of a media lawyer type of thing. trying to figure out the most elegant way to do this. holly and i

had lunch and were trying to figure out what was the best date. and i was advised, when you do it, obviously, this is going to be big news, you should really have an interview afterwards. it was suggested to me that the sun would be the paper to go to. {lilia suggested to me that the sun would be the paper to go to.— be the paper to go to. 0k, let me tut be the paper to go to. 0k, let me put directly _ be the paper to go to. 0k, let me put directly what _ be the paper to go to. 0k, let me put directly what dan _ be the paper to go to. 0k, let me put directly what dan wootton i be the paper to go to. 0k, let me i put directly what dan wootton says, you can debunk if you wish to, he said, a decision had been made for the newspaper to have a close relationship with itv and as part of the close relationship they were offered ringside seats at an exclusive interview for the coming out announcement. as a result, the sun would not run a story about the young runner. prompted by phillip. categorically untrue. i have got to say there are a great number of things that have been said that our

categorically untrue. i have nothing against dan and i have brought myself down to a far greater degree and you could ever have done, i have brought myself down, i and done, i have to talk about television in the past tense which breaks my heart. but it continues. and it is relentless and it is day after day after day after day. if you don't think that it is going to have the most catastrophic effect on someone's mind, do you want me to die? because that is where i am. i have lost everything. my girls saved my life. they said last week, they

haven't left me for a moment, they haven't left me for a moment, they have been by my side of the moment because they are scared to let me out of their sight. what is that like four daughters to have to go through something like that? and they said to me, don't you dare do this on our watch. we are supposed to be looking after you. if my girls hadn't been there, i wouldn't be here. because i don't see a future. and so how much do you want a man to take? and are you truly only happy when he is dead? and this is how caroline flack felt and it didn't stop and i know i have done something wrong, i know i have done something wrong, i know i have done something wrong, i have owned up to doing something wrong. but a

constant... friends texted me this morning saying, mate, this is relentless, when is it going to stop? what is the agenda? when is this going to stop? someone said, you are being treated like jack the ripper. and i haven't looked at a single thing. that would be the final push. i haven't looked at a single newspaper article. i deleted all of the app clinic, deleted notifications. i have not looked at my phone, looked at the news, well—meaning people come through to you, can't believe, this hasjust been said, can't believe you are painted out to be this person, we know you, we love you, please love the person you know —— we know you are. still it comes, utterly relentless, uncontrolled, online. why is all this coming out? what was the catalyst? what changed?

it got too big. the lie got too big for both of us. itjust got enormous. it was growing and growing and growing, and it crossed over from online to mainstream news. that had to stop for his mental health, it had to stop. itv�*s position is that they, and they've only put out one statement about all of this, they say they investigated allegations of an improper relationship and they were told by both you and the young man that there was no relationship. in retrospect, was that investigation a sham because it clearly didn't get to the truth, did it? i think if you have two people who are lying, then what can you do? what did that investigation amount to? was itjust a phone call to you and a phone call to the young man? was it a proper independent... i think he was asked quite a bit. i was asked a couple of times. and so... and it wasn't formal.

yeah, ithink yeah, i think bearing in mind there were two people absolutely intransigent in their denial that it would have been pretty hard... did ou would have been pretty hard... did you coordinate your responses together to make sure that i didn't get out? together to make sure that i didn't tet out? :, together to make sure that i didn't get out? the. you and he lied get out? thu you and he lied independently? get out? no. you and he lied independently? he _ get out? no. you and he lied independently? he didn't i get out? no. you and he lied. independently? he didn't ever get out? no. you and he lied i independently? he didn't ever want his name out. _ independently? he didn't ever want his name out, he _ independently? he didn't ever want his name out, he wanted _ independently? he didn't ever want his name out, he wanted it - independently? he didn't ever want his name out, he wanted it to i independently? he didn't ever want his name out, he wanted it to go i his name out, he wanted it to go away. his name out, he wanted it to go awa . , :, , his name out, he wanted it to go awa. , :, away. some people would say, some tteole are away. some people would say, some people are saying. — away. some people would say, some people are saying, have _ away. some people would say, some people are saying, have said, - away. some people would say, some people are saying, have said, it i people are saying, have said, it stretches credulity to suggest people at the top of itv wouldn't have known about your relationship with this young man. pretty well known that two of you were close and people specifically raised this with bosses of itv and people say quite a short journey from that to saying they should have done a proper and thorough investigation and got to the truth, isn't that a reasonable thing for people to say given we are talking about potential abuse of power and workplace culture which is under the spotlight as ever before?

yeah. you have been very clear about something else which you want to correct which is did something else which you want to correct which i— correct which is did you speak to an one correct which is did you speak to anyone at _ correct which is did you speak to anyone at all— correct which is did you speak to anyone at all that _ correct which is did you speak to anyone at all that itv _ correct which is did you speak to anyone at all that itv about i correct which is did you speak to i anyone at all that itv about moving this young man onto another programme?— this young man onto another ttroramme? ~ , :, , programme? absolutely categorically not. he was programme? absolutely categorically not- he was a — programme? absolutely categorically not. he was a really _ programme? absolutely categorically not. he was a really good _ programme? absolutely categorically not. he was a really good colleague, | not. he was a really good colleague, runner, very good. and so he applied to go to loose women and he got the job entirely on his own merits and i remember him saying, mate, i am going to loose women fantastic. going to loose women i remember him saying, mate, i am going to loose women i do not believe there is any truth in that at all. t believe there is any truth in that at all. :, �* ~ :, . at all. i don't know if you have seen, at all. i don't know if you have seen. told _ at all. i don't know if you have seen, told staff _ at all. i don't know if you have seen, told staff at _ at all. i don't know if you have seen, told staff at itv - at all. i don't know if you have i seen, told staff at itv instructed a barrister to carry out an external review of the facts following your departure, will you comply with the

external review if asked? yes. february 2020 _ external review if asked? yes. february 2020 itv _ external review if asked? 193 february 2020 itv investigated whether you are having a relationship, when dr singh, a regular guest, made a formal complaint to the bosses of itv about toxicity on this morning they appointed an external independent adviser to do a review who found, i quote, no evidence of bullying and discrimination. what would you say to those people who say given the record, quite hard to have confidence in the latest review from itv? i confidence in the latest review from itv? , :, , , :, :, itv? i 'ust hope it will be thorough and i itv? ijust hope it will be thorough and i will itv? ijust hope it will be thorough and i will also _ itv? ijust hope it will be thorough and i will also point _ itv? ijust hope it will be thorough and i will also point out _ itv? ijust hope it will be thorough and i will also point out that i i and i will also point out that i don't know... some people perhaps may be toxic and see toxicity everywhere because that is the lens they are looking at the world, there is no toxicity, there is no bullion, there is no disk of a nation at this

morning. he there is no disk of a nation at this mornint. .. , ., there is no disk of a nation at this mornin.. i. , ., morning. he said in your statement there is no — morning. he said in your statement there is no toxicity _ morning. he said in your statement there is no toxicity at _ morning. he said in your statement there is no toxicity at this - there is no toxicity at this morning. it is clear listening to you, you are clearly very protective of the programme you worked on for 20 years and understandably so because its reputation has taken a very severe hit. is there is no toxicity, why would dr ranj singh have felt compelled to make a formal complaint at the highest levels of itv about particular individuals behaviour and the environment at this morning? why would former staffers be contacting eamon holmes who i know is not running to be president of yourfan who i know is not running to be president of your fan club, why would they be contacting him to say a signed nondisclosure agreements too, i quote, cover a signed nondisclosure agreements too, iquote, cover up a signed nondisclosure agreements too, i quote, cover up bullying and power abuse? too, i quote, cover up bullying and powerabuse? it too, i quote, cover up bullying and power abuse? it sounds pretty toxic. i am unaware of any of that. all that goes on elsewhere. all i see is angry people shouting about a show they are not on any more. you asked

a moment ago _ they are not on any more. you asked a moment ago what _ they are not on any more. you asked a moment ago what it _ they are not on any more. you asked a moment ago what it is _ they are not on any more. you asked a moment ago what it is people i they are not on any more. you asked a moment ago what it is people want to see. they are watching you lose yourjob to see. they are watching you lose your job and to see. they are watching you lose yourjob and now suffer. why do you think lots of people do seem to have it in for you? are you toxic to them a? , :, :, , :, it in for you? are you toxic to them a? god, i hope not. i know what the issues are — a? god, i hope not. i know what the issues are with _ a? god, i hope not. i know what the issues are with two _ a? god, i hope not. i know what the issues are with two principal- issues are with two principal people, who i wish... i don't like toxicity. what you said to the best of your knowledge, the young man you had a sexual relationship with was not moved to loose women on anything other than his own merits, he applied and got a promotion and that was not a cultural cover—up by itv. you also said to the best of your knowledge he has not been paid for his silence and has not signed a nondisclosure agreement or signed an injunction. i guess the other allegation or made of itv, and they can respond but i am interested to know what you think, it's notjust that they displayed poor management but they allowed a culture of

toxicity to develop at this morning but didn't do anything about it because the presenters were untouchable and it was all about keeping you and holly happy. i untouchable and it was all about keeping you and holly happy. i think that is utterly _ keeping you and holly happy. i think that is utterly untrue. _ keeping you and holly happy. i think that is utterly untrue. from - keeping you and holly happy. i think that is utterly untrue. from my i that is utterly untrue. from my point of view and i think hollywood say the same thing, that is utterly untrue. if was toxicity between two members of a team that i was completely unaware of and they had beef with one another, then that's nothing to do with us. the programme that i love and the programme that i left, i have never seen that. from my position, or heard it, in fact. when did you speak to holly willoughby? i when did you speak to holly willoughby?— when did you speak to holly willouahb ? , w ., x ,, when did you speak to holly willouahb ? , ._ ., x ,, ., willoughby? i sent her a whatsapp on the da i willoughby? i sent her a whatsapp on the day i put — willoughby? i sent her a whatsapp on the day i put out _ willoughby? i sent her a whatsapp on the day i put out the _ willoughby? i sent her a whatsapp on the day i put out the statement - willoughby? i sent her a whatsapp on the day i put out the statement and i the day i put out the statement and i said to her, i know you can't reply, you're probably not allowed to, but please know that i am so

desperately, desperately sorry. did she reply? ne- _ desperately, desperately sorry. did she reply? no. how— desperately, desperately sorry. did she reply? no. how would - desperately, desperately sorry. did she reply? no. how would you - she reply? iifx how would you characterise your relationship with her now? is it broken? i characterise your relationship with her now? is it broken?— her now? is it broken? i adore holl . i her now? is it broken? i adore holly- i have _ her now? is it broken? i adore holly. i have always _ her now? is it broken? i adore holly. i have always adored i her now? is it broken? i adore i holly. i have always adored her. her now? is it broken? i adore - holly. i have always adored her. she is my tv sister. from my point of view, no, idon't is my tv sister. from my point of view, no, i don't have a problem with holly at all.— view, no, i don't have a problem with holly at all. what would you sa to with holly at all. what would you say to her. _ with holly at all. what would you say to her, given _ with holly at all. what would you say to her, given she _ with holly at all. what would you say to her, given she is - with holly at all. what would you | say to her, given she is doubtless listening to you now. what would you say publicly about what you may be said privately, and apologising and your hopes for men during the relationship. i your hopes for men during the relationship.— relationship. i would say to everyone. _ relationship. i would say to everyone” _ relationship. i would say to everyone” i _ relationship. i would say to everyone,, i would - relationship. i would say to everyone,, i would say - relationship. i would say to everyone,, i would say to l relationship. i would say to l everyone,, i would say to my relationship. i would say to - everyone,, i would say to my family, my friends, my work colleagues, the public, to itv, to my management company, to everyone that i lied to,

i am desperately, desperately sorry. but principally i would like to apologise to him. because it may have being consensual, it may have been fully legal, but i shouldn't have allowed it to happen. and that was a grave, grave error on my part. and i know that because of that, and absolutely innocent person is being persecuted. absolutely innocent person is being ersecuted. ., ., . ., absolutely innocent person is being persecuted-— persecuted. onto a particular point of fact, persecuted. onto a particular point of fact. eamon _ persecuted. onto a particular point of fact, eamon holmes _ persecuted. onto a particular point of fact, eamon holmes has - persecuted. onto a particular point i of fact, eamon holmes has suggested there were taxis from your apartment to the studio that this young man used and they were probably paid for by itv. did he frequently get taxis from the studio... he by itv. did he frequently get taxis from the studio. . .— from the studio... he didn't frequently _ from the studio... he didn't frequently come _ from the studio... he didn't frequently come to - from the studio... he didn't frequently come to my - from the studio... he didn't frequently come to my flat. | from the studio... he didn't i frequently come to my flat. he from the studio... he didn't - frequently come to my flat. he came to my flat once. in my recollection he did not stay over, he said he was

passing and would come in for a drink. ., ., ., drink. the idea he got regular taxis... utterly _ drink. the idea he got regular taxis... utterly untrue. - drink. the idea he got regular taxis... utterly untrue. i- drink. the idea he got regular| taxis... utterly untrue. idon't have an itv — taxis... utterly untrue. idon't have an itv car— taxis... utterly untrue. idon't have an itv car account - taxis... utterly untrue. idon't| have an itv car account either. presenters don't have that. when you came out as — presenters don't have that. when you came out as gay _ presenters don't have that. when you came out as gay live _ presenters don't have that. when you came out as gay live on _ presenters don't have that. when you came out as gay live on this - came out as gay live on this morning, eamon holmes and his wife were there and supporting you. he says he felt used. what's that all fake? that the application of what he is saying, that there was artifice to the day and he was being used for a kind of reputational enhancement for you. you used for a kind of reputational enhancement for you. used for a kind of reputational enhancement for ou. ., _, ., ., , enhancement for you. you come out as a as enhancement for you. you come out as gay as reputatienal_ enhancement for you. you come out as gay as reputational enhancement? - enhancement for you. you come out as gay as reputational enhancement? i . gay as reputational enhancement? i think that in itself speaks... ishilnen think that in itself speaks... when did ou think that in itself speaks. .. when did you know— think that in itself speaks... when did you know you _ think that in itself speaks... when did you know you were _ think that in itself speaks... when did you know you were gay? - think that in itself speaks. .. when did you know you were gay? i - think that in itself speaks... when i did you know you were gay? i spoke to my therapist _ did you know you were gay? i spoke to my therapist about _ did you know you were gay? i spoke to my therapist about this _ did you know you were gay? i spoke to my therapist about this because l did you know you were gay? i spoke to my therapist about this because i had a wonderful marriage. have a wonderful marriage. not brilliant right now. with an incredibly

supportive wife and two beautiful children. who had the most amazing time as a family, us four, and something started to trip me up. and i couldn't figure out what it was. and my therapist has said, you can become aware. things change, things change. and over a period of time it was a kernel that grew bigger and bigger until i was really mentally struggling, deeply mentally struggling. and my relationship with my colleague coincided with that moment. that is not an excuse. i make no excuses.— moment. that is not an excuse. i make no excuses. can i ask if that was our make no excuses. can i ask if that was your first _ make no excuses. can i ask if that was your first gay _ make no excuses. can i ask if that was your first gay relationship, . make no excuses. can i ask if that

was your first gay relationship, or| was your first gay relationship, or how do you had flings or experiences before them? this how do you had flings or experiences before them?— before them? this interview is not about experiences _ before them? this interview is not about experiences like _ before them? this interview is not about experiences like that. - before them? this interview is not about experiences like that. why i before them? this interview is not l about experiences like that. why did ou come about experiences like that. why did you come out _ about experiences like that. why did you come out when _ about experiences like that. why did you come out when you _ about experiences like that. why did you come out when you did? - about experiences like that. why did | you come out when you did? nobody forced your hand, as you say. because it got to the point where i weighed nine and a half stone. it was utterly torturing me. i couldn't sleep, eat. and i wanted to be brave. i had spoken through it with the family, who have all been incredible.— the family, who have all been incredible. �* , _, ., incredible. let's come to some closin: incredible. let's come to some closing thoughts. _ incredible. let's come to some closing thoughts. do _ incredible. let's come to some closing thoughts. do you - incredible. let's come to some closing thoughts. do you feel, | closing thoughts. do you feel, mindful as i am you are very concerned about the welfare of one particular person, do you feel a victim in all this? ila. particular person, do you feel a victim in all this?— victim in all this? no. ifeela victim in all this? no. ifeela victim of— victim in all this? no. ifeela victim of hate _ victim in all this? no. ifeela victim of hate after— victim in all this? no. ifeela victim of hate after the - victim in all this? no. i feel a|

victim of hate after the event. victim in all this? no. i feel a - victim of hate after the event. and i think probably a lot of people watching this will be thinking, how dare you. it would be easier for me to say i don't feel like a victim. what i feel a victim of is spun areas of non—factual information. and gossip and nastiness. but i don't look any more. i have already told you how i feel. and i'm not in television any more. you told you how i feel. and i'm not in television any more.— told you how i feel. and i'm not in television any more. you lived a lie and ou television any more. you lived a lie and you lived _ television any more. you lived a lie and you lived a _ television any more. you lived a lie and you lived a secret _ television any more. you lived a lie and you lived a secret life - television any more. you lived a lie and you lived a secret life for - television any more. you lived a lie and you lived a secret life for a - and you lived a secret life for a long time. they say the truth sets you free. for all the stress that you free. for all the stress that you have lived with, do you feel at least slightly liberated by speaking out today? i’m least slightly liberated by speaking out toda ? �* ., , ., ., out today? i'm glad it is not a lie any more- _ out today? i'm glad it is not a lie any more- if _ out today? i'm glad it is not a lie any more- if i — out today? i'm glad it is not a lie any more. if i could _ out today? i'm glad it is not a lie any more. ifi could have - out today? i'm glad it is not a lie any more. if i could have taken l out today? i'm glad it is not a lie i any more. if i could have taken the whole full brunt of this without an

innocent man being hauled alongside then fair play. but the fact that an innocent man, his friends, his family, the association is questioned. everything has been questioned. everything has been questioned because you can say anything online.— questioned because you can say anything online. there are a load of lies on social _ anything online. there are a load of lies on social media. _ anything online. there are a load of lies on social media. there - anything online. there are a load of lies on social media. there are - anything online. there are a load of lies on social media. there are a i lies on social media. there are a load of lies about you. people might say, given he has lied in the past, why should we believe him today? only my friends and family need to worry about that. you don't have to worry about that. you don't have to worry about that. you don't have to worry about what i say any more. i willjust be that to the garden. have you been abandoned by a lot of people you were close to? yes. have you been abandoned by a lot of people you were close to?— people you were close to? yes. but interestingly _ people you were close to? yes. but interestingly i _ people you were close to? yes. but interestingly i have _ people you were close to? yes. but interestingly i have also... - people you were close to? yes. but interestingly i have also... its - interestingly i have also... its been a very fine mesh of friends.

it's interesting to see who came through. and it's also interesting, the new friends i've made, because there are a lot of people who i have never really spoken to in my world, who have reached out and been amazing. and one very prominent public figure phoned me the other day and said, i wanted to check that you were ok. i have never seen such homophobia in my life. mira; you were ok. i have never seen such homophobia in my life.— homophobia in my life. why do you think this coverage _ homophobia in my life. why do you think this coverage has _ homophobia in my life. why do you think this coverage has been - think this coverage has been homophobic? ii it think this coverage has been homophobic?— think this coverage has been homohobic? .. , ., .. homophobic? if it was a heterosexual relationship. — homophobic? if it was a heterosexual relationship. it _ homophobic? if it was a heterosexual relationship, it would _ homophobic? if it was a heterosexual relationship, it would have _ homophobic? if it was a heterosexual relationship, it would have been - homophobic? if it was a heterosexual relationship, it would have been a - relationship, it would have been a bit of nudge nudge, wink wink. if it is a gay relationship, it suddenly raises eyebrows. it is wrong. people do find each other attractive and different age groups. it does happen. but it is the mere fact that it is so gigantic. and i appreciate

the work place, and the history, i get that. but it's the fact that it is so massive, is predominantly homophobia. is this the tip of the iceberg? are there more allegations and revelations to come, or as far as you're concerned is that all there is? that's all there is. it's my biggest, my biggest, sorriest secret. where do you think your career goes from here? ., where do you think your career goes from here?_ i _ where do you think your career goes from here?_ i had - where do you think your career goes from here?_ i had read - where do you think your career goes from here?_ i had read to i from here? nowhere. i had read to ou are from here? nowhere. i had read to you are separated, _ from here? nowhere. i had read to you are separated, you _ from here? nowhere. i had read to you are separated, you have - from here? nowhere. i had read to i you are separated, you have vanished your wedding ring. we you are separated, you have vanished your wedding ring-— your wedding ring. we are separated but we are very _ your wedding ring. we are separated but we are very much _ your wedding ring. we are separated but we are very much together. - your wedding ring. we are separated | but we are very much together. what would ou but we are very much together. what would you like _ but we are very much together. what would you like to _ but we are very much together. what would you like to say _ but we are very much together. what would you like to say to _ but we are very much together. what would you like to say to her? can - would you like to say to her? can ou would you like to say to her? can you imagine _ would you like to say to her? (can you imagine how difficult that conversation was.— you imagine how difficult that conversation was. perhaps this one is sli . htl conversation was. perhaps this one is slightly easier. _ conversation was. perhaps this one is slightly easier. she's _ conversation was. perhaps this one is slightly easier. she's not - conversation was. perhaps this one is slightly easier. she's not here. i is slightly easier. she's not here. no, i will never... let'sjust

is slightly easier. she's not here. no, i will never... let's just say that it was an incredibly difficult conversation, the most difficult conversation, the most difficult conversation i have ever had to have with her. and she is extremely disappointed because i lied to her as well. but she wished me well today. and so we'll see. band as well. but she wished me well today. and so we'll see. and what would you — today. and so we'll see. and what would you say _ today. and so we'll see. and what would you say right _ today. and so we'll see. and what would you say right now— today. and so we'll see. and what would you say right now publicly l today. and so we'll see. and what| would you say right now publicly to your daughters? mr; would you say right now publicly to your daughters?— would you say right now publicly to your daughters? would you say right now publicly to our dauuhters? g ., , your daughters? my daughters were, i called them and _ your daughters? my daughters were, i called them and said _ your daughters? my daughters were, i called them and said i _ your daughters? my daughters were, i called them and said i have _ called them and said i have something to tell you. they came out to see me. and were unbelievable. unbelievable. and i looked at them and thought, well, you got that right. and they don't think you are a bully and they don't think you are toxic, and they know the man you are. and they know you screwed up royally.

are. and they know you screwed up ro all . . , are. and they know you screwed up ro all . .. , ., ., are. and they know you screwed up ro all. ., , ., ., are. and they know you screwed up roall. ..y ., ., royally. finally, what would you say to the young _ royally. finally, what would you say to the young man — royally. finally, what would you say to the young man in _ royally. finally, what would you say to the young man in question. - royally. finally, what would you say to the young man in question. to i to the young man in question. to whom to the young man in question. tfr whom i am the most sorry. by getting involved with me, i have caused you so much pain. and again, i am... i will neverforgive so much pain. and again, i am... i will never forgive myself, so much pain. and again, i am... i will neverforgive myself, that so much pain. and again, i am... i will never forgive myself, that i made a bad judgment call. and if only you knew in one moment, it was one moment, thejudgment that i've had for 41 years, if i'd used it at that moment, then things would be very, very different for everybody. phillip schofield, thank you so much for your time. and if you're affected by any of the issues raised in that interview,

there is a list of organisations which can provide help. it's at the bbc action line website, at bbc.co.uk/actionline. the bbc�*s amol rajan who interviewed phillip schofield says his task was made significantly more delicate by schofield's clearly very highly charged emotional state. amol has been speaking to nicky campbell. the man who presented himself yesterday was in such an emotionally charged and agitated state, as we thought he would be, but then actually he turned out to be even more agitated than we expected. that really did weight extremely heavily on the entire editorial approach we took. there was no point at i thought we shouldn't do it. he spoke obsessively about mental health, as we heard a bit of there, and about the state of mind he's in. there were times when i was very mindful, as i have been for 15 years in this

trade, of the reporting restrictions and guidance around certain aspects of mental health, so that was weighing heavily on me but at no point did i think we shouldn't do it because for reasons you have explained, i think the story matters and it's much more than celebrity gossip. and it's much more than celebrity aossi -. ~ ., , and it's much more than celebrity ..ossi_ . ., , , gossip. when we do these interviews, there is chat — gossip. when we do these interviews, there is chat off _ gossip. when we do these interviews, there is chat off screen _ gossip. when we do these interviews, there is chat off screen before - there is chat off screen before hand. — there is chat off screen before hand, during, when we take a break, and afterwards as well. what was that like — and afterwards as well. what was that like and what was his demeanour then? _ that like and what was his demeanour then? was— that like and what was his demeanour then? was he communicating with you on any— then? was he communicating with you on any kind _ then? was he communicating with you on any kind of level different to during — on any kind of level different to during the interview? the on any kind of level different to during the interview?— on any kind of level different to during the interview? the guy who turned u- during the interview? the guy who turned up yesterday, _ during the interview? the guy who turned up yesterday, you - during the interview? the guy who turned up yesterday, you know, i during the interview? the guy who i turned up yesterday, you know, was during the interview? the guy who - turned up yesterday, you know, was a ghostly figure, basically. extremely sunken. he says he hasn't eaten in a long time. he looked extremely gaunt and was visibly shaking and was not communicative and couldn't really talk. he was not in a good way. we have thought about this for decades, nicky. you have to be frank and open and there is a tension between on

the one hand a serious duty of care. for people listening and watching now, the bbc takes incredibly seriously, and we have multiple conversations in advance, we have lots of people get involved and we make sure we have a duty of care that we observe to an interviewee. but also a duty to the truth and that means sometimes asking really tough questions, as you heard there. there is a balance to be struck so hopefully if you get the tone right you can ask those tough questions to get to the truth without tipping someone in the direction that's not where they should be.— where they should be. something i want to ask — where they should be. something i want to ask you — where they should be. something i want to ask you about _ where they should be. something i want to ask you about is _ where they should be. something i | want to ask you about is something that came — want to ask you about is something that came up in the interview. phillip — that came up in the interview. phillip mentioned there were double standards. that is the inference from _ standards. that is the inference from what — standards. that is the inference from what he said, in terms of if this had — from what he said, in terms of if this had been a heterosexual relationship, there would not be the furore _ relationship, there would not be the furore about it, the age gap and the nature _ furore about it, the age gap and the nature of— furore about it, the age gap and the nature of it — furore about it, the age gap and the nature of it. he mentioned leonardo dicaprio— nature of it. he mentioned leonardo dicaprio for— nature of it. he mentioned leonardo dicaprio for example. he mentioned there _ dicaprio for example. he mentioned there was— dicaprio for example. he mentioned there was something homophobic about

this. there was something homophobic about this tell— there was something homophobic about this tell us— there was something homophobic about this. tell us a little bit about what — this. tell us a little bit about what he _ this. tell us a little bit about what he said there. on this. tell us a little bit about what he said there.— what he said there. on the homophobia, _ what he said there. on the homophobia, it's - what he said there. on the i homophobia, it's interesting, what he said there. on the - homophobia, it's interesting, we what he said there. on the _ homophobia, it's interesting, we had a conversation in advance where that was going to be a question i asked him. i would say, do you think that there is a phillip schofield, and encase people don't know, he was married to a woman for many years, and in 2020 came out as gay on that caused him torment over the years. i was thinking i should raise this with and it's a question that is maybe slightly uncomfortable. he came out with it straight up, early in the interview and repeated it strongly and we came back to it towards the end. his view emphatically strongly was that because the young man with whom, the young colleague with whom he had an extramarital affair was a man, that there was a huge seediness or salacious nurse to the way it was being written that wouldn't apply if it was a young woman. that's his view and people can make up their own mind. but his view is strongly that he raised of his own volition and reiterated, his view was

strongly that this just wouldn't have this kind of level of aggression and toxicity and frankly abuse on social media if it had been abuse on social media if it had been a heterosexual relationship and he said it was a clear sign that in 2023 we still have clear issues with homophobia. he made the point that there is a difference between homophobia and law. we have equal marriage in this country but homophobia at the level of cultural, innuendo, and what is implied and nudge nudge, wink wink. i responded by saying, there are legitimate questions, which he accepts, by the fact he met the young man when the young man was 15. but his view strongly was that there was a homophobic tint to the coverage. and can i make one of the point, if you have time. on the eamonn holmes and some of the other claims coming out, one of the reasons that phillip schofield would do an interview like this, he has deleted apps from his phone but he is aware because people are messaging him and he has his

daughters with him, that there are some stories around and he was keen to correct them. it's really important that people know, and i am mindful of this, this is phillip schofield's account of events at this moment in time in the development of this story. a number of issues, whether the young men has signed an nda or not, whether or not itv moved him onto another programme, whether taxes were paid for by itv, he offered a counterpoint to the views and factual analysis of people like eamonn holmes. he did not want to get into a slanging match with eamonn holmes, as you can imagine, and i did put some of eamonn holmes's morejuicy and i did put some of eamonn holmes's more juicy quotes to him, but phillip schofield wanted to say these things, and itv are doing their own independent investigation that will hopefully get to the truth. that was the bbc�*s amol rajan. as we came on air, today's edition of this morning on itv addressed the claims and played a segment

of our interview with their former presenter phillip schofield. let's hear some of what the hosts had to say. finding it really painful because, honestly, i loved phillip schofield and it's weird because i still love phillip schofield. however, what he's done is wrong. he's admitted it, he's said sorry. but i'm really... as a family, we are all really struggling to process everything. i never know what to say, but i remember what my mum said. my mum always said, you know, "use your bible as your satnav in life," and in the bible it says, "he without sin cast the first stone." and i just don't want to... i don't want to say anything bad because obviously i'm in conflict. of course, i think so many of us are. it's a conflation here, giles, between, obviously, what phil has done is wrong, but at the same time... it's a human story. human being behind it. human story but with public implications. i the point is the public implications, to do . with broadcasting and to do with workplace rules, -

regulations, good behaviour, that is going to be dealt- with by the review and we will learn the consequences of that. - at the same time, we are dealing | with a human being that all of us| here have known and liked over many years. - it makes it difficult for us. really, what i'm saying - is the reaction to it has been in some ways disproportionate at the human level. _ that was gyles brandreth talking to alison hammond and dermot o'leary on this morning's edition of this morning. with more on this, i'm joined by our media and arts correspondent david sillito. you watched that 43 minute interview with phillip schofield. what was your reaction? the with phillip schofield. what was your reaction?— your reaction? the first thing is that this is _ your reaction? the first thing is that this is clearly _ your reaction? the first thing is that this is clearly a _ your reaction? the first thing is that this is clearly a man - your reaction? the first thing is that this is clearly a man in - your reaction? the first thing is that this is clearly a man in a i your reaction? the first thing is i that this is clearly a man in a very fragile mental state. his first reference was to caroline flack. and this was someone who looked as though he was very much on the edge

and it was uncomfortable to watch. then there was the second issue, which is the reason he was being interviewed, which is there are serious questions raised by this. itv bosses will be questioned by mps about this because of questions around safeguarding and a potential abuse of power. what we have is a very powerful older tv presenter who has a relationship with a much younger man. and he went through the story and he said it did begin with a visit to a drama school when this man was 15. he said nothing happened, it was merely a few interactions on twitter over the next few years, a bit of chat, talking about careers. and then he got a position at this morning, first work experience and then a job. the questions that will be

raised, he said itv knew nothing about this, they investigated in 2020 stop here and the man both denied it. he said they couldn't have done anything more. but there will be more questions about what actually did happen, how he got the job, what did people know at the time, was that investigation in 2020 thorough enough. because this is a relationship that began with an incident in a dressing room at itv. so there are certainly many questions and many people will be looking at the time line, looking at all the details and we await to see where else this now goes. to all the details and we await to see where else this now goes.- where else this now goes. to the interview was _ where else this now goes. to the interview was forensic _ where else this now goes. to the interview was forensic at - where else this now goes. to the interview was forensic at times. | where else this now goes. to the | interview was forensic at times. it was also highly emotional. phillip schofield started physically shaking whilst amol rajan asked the first question. he reference the fact that a lot of accusations and hearsay and claims have started online and when

they moved into the mainstream press, that's when phillip schofield felt he had to speak out. by speaking out, what do you think it will do and how will it impact the story and some of the false senses that have been propagated online —— the falsehoods that have been propagated. he the falsehoods that have been propagated-— the falsehoods that have been --roa~ated. , . ., , propagated. he was very clearly doinu propagated. he was very clearly doin: this propagated. he was very clearly doing this to — propagated. he was very clearly doing this to counter— propagated. he was very clearly doing this to counter what - propagated. he was very clearly doing this to counter what was i propagated. he was very clearly| doing this to counter what was a tsunami of falsehood and inaccuracy that has surrounded this. the central issue here is what is in his words and unwise but not a legal relationship with a much younger man. around this there have been week after week front page news stories about a toxic atmosphere at this morning, something he categorically denies, the idea that when he came out in public on this morning it was because of a threat of a news story being published. he said categorically untrue. he was here to put his side of the story.

he was also very much wanting to say, please, stop. what more do you want, i'm on the brink here. the question is, when you do a 46 minute interview that's broadcast, it is, well, it certainly doesn't make it go away. it certainly makes it headline news for a few days. certainly, and they will be people who say, he lied to itv, his wife and viewers. they might consider he has done so again now, that's for viewers to make up their own minds from the 43 minutes we have just watched. with regards to phillip schofield and itv, he says to amol rajan he considers his career over. is that your assessment and what will it do to itv?— is that your assessment and what will it do to itv? watch him for the first two minutes _ will it do to itv? watch him for the first two minutes of _ will it do to itv? watch him for the first two minutes of the _ will it do to itv? watch him for the first two minutes of the interview i first two minutes of the interview and you can't imagine him working again in television. from this particular position that he's in at the moment. he lied to his family. he lied to his employers. he lied to

his agents. the initial moment when he said, i'm going to step down from this morning, was because he said he had become the headline. but when he reveals the relationship with a much younger man, itv brought the relationship to an end. he will not be presenting the british soap awards, he will not present any more prime time tv programmes with them, he is probably accurate when he says that his tv career is over. it is hard to see where it comes back from now. but this is not over as a story. now. but this is not over as a sto . ., . . now. but this is not over as a sto. .,., story. no, and there is obviously the ongoing _ story. no, and there is obviously the ongoing investigation. - story. no, and there is obviously the ongoing investigation. itv i story. no, and there is obviously i the ongoing investigation. itv have brought in an independent barrister to look through the account and the facts of what has been going on. what do you think it might throw up and do you expect we might see more instances or issues arise that we were not previously aware of or do

you think we will find what we have pretty much already heard? itidi you think we will find what we have pretty much already heard? itv said the have pretty much already heard? itv said they have looked _ pretty much already heard? itv said they have looked at _ pretty much already heard? itv said they have looked at their _ pretty much already heard? itv said they have looked at their records . they have looked at their records and said at first that they were aware of anything late in 2019. they say there was an investigation and both people involved were questioned and both denied it. the question is, what more can you do in that situation if people are denying something. the question is, how broad was the investigation and how many other people did they speak to? certainly many have expressed concern about what is happening at this morning and two of them are former employees of itv. phillip schofield said, maybe they have an axe to grind. but there are certainly many questions about how thorough the investigation was given that this was a i9—year—old on work

experience who then, age, phillip schofield said, 20 or 21 when the relationship began, and he sort of sad, it wasjust relationship began, and he sort of sad, it was just five or six encounters. but whatever you want to say, it's past the age of consent, but still a very young and vulnerable member of staff in an organisation and there are questions to be asked. illur organisation and there are questions to be asked-— to be asked. our media and arts correspondent _ to be asked. our media and arts correspondent david _ to be asked. our media and arts correspondent david sillito. - to be asked. our media and arts i correspondent david sillito. thank you. and if you have been affected by any details from the story there is more advice and a list of organisations that can help on the bbc action line website. luxmy gopal will be here with more global headlines from 11 o'clock. thank you for watching.

live from london, this is bbc news boris this is bbc newsjohnson says he wants to send all borisjohnson says he wants to send all communications requested from the covid inquiry after the government appealed to a judge to halt it. the former tv star, phillip schofield, says he feels nothing but sadness and regret after admitting to lying about an affair with a younger colleague. cautious optimism amongst scientists, who say they're excited by a trial of a blood test, which can detect 50 different types of cancer. the us senate approves a bill to suspend the government debt limit, averting a potentially catastrophic default.

because of the good work of president biden