, areas areas are blue, this is these small areas are blue, this is a hint at some places could get down to freezing. a cool start to saturday but for the vast majority we are going to see a lot of sunshine, even eastern england, which has been pretty cloudy. northern scotland keeping the cloud, very small chance for the odd shower over high ground in scotland. the highest temperatures up to 22 or 23 degrees. on sunday it is more of the same. the one subtle difference, more low cloud rolling across north—east scotland and threatening to get in across the eastern side of england. similartemperatures, 16 to 22 degrees. i am going to run this pressure chart right through five days, all the way through next week. because this area of high pressure is just because this area of high pressure isjust going to because this area of high pressure is just going to stick with us, things really are not changing quickly. the one small change you might see towards the end of next week is temperatures actually starting to climb. maybe up to 2a or

25 degrees. lots of dry weather, some sunshine and very little rain in the forecast. of what he says were untruths and tries to change the narrative about his relationship with a younger colleague. what are the questions now for itv? the mother of caroline flack, an itv presenter who took her own life during intense media scrutiny three years ago, tells this programme itv haven't

learned the lessons since then. they treat them as commodities. and i know it's a lovelyjob, and i know that you earn money, but also, the television stations earn money from them. but they're not commodities, they're people. we ask a former sky and itv executive and a former culture minster what questions they want itv to answer now. also tonight: ahead of the inauguration of president erdogan of turkey tomorrow, we'll ask what that means for the rest of the world. and this... matilda composer, actor and lyricist tim minchin on his next musical groundhog day. he talks about rejection, his mental health and the policing of language. my my super progressive lefty friends who say, there is no such thing as cancel culture, itsjust who say, there is no such thing as cancel culture, its just powerful people getting what they deserve. i

mean, that is gaslightingly naive. good evening. it's been a week since phillip schofield issued a statement confirming a relationship — "unwise", he said, but "not but "not illegal" — with a junior colleague at this morning and resigned from itv. seven days on, when the bbc broadcast its full interview with him this morning, the former presenter appeared to many to wear the visible scars of a man who has confronted a new reality. admitting in full detail the extent of the lies he said he told to his family, friends, colleagues, agents and bosses, phillip schofield denied grooming the young man he first encountered aged just 15, but acknowledged his conduct meant his career was now over. he talked too of the pressure he's felt amidst the glare of publicity as the scandal has unfolded. and referencing the suicide of caroline flack, a fellow former itv star who had faced her own difficulties, he said it was the love of his daughters that had kept him from the same fate. we'll hear in a moment from caroline flack�*s mother and discuss the lasting implications of this episode for itv,

whose boss has been summoned to face questions from mps over the scandal. are you feeling ok to do this? are you feeling strong enough to do this interview? yeah, i have to. it is relentless, and this is day after day after day after day. and if you do that... if you don't think that that is going to have the most catastrophic effect on someone's mind... an interview that was essentially a plea for mercy. and an unreserved apology for the inappropriate sexual relationship he admitted to when, he says, the young man was 20. now, obviously, iwill... regret foreverfor him and for me, mostly him. but it... that happened maybe four or five times over the next few months. and i know it's unforgivable.

but on the most damaging allegation of grooming the other person while he was a minor, he gave a flat denial. it was a totally innocent picture, a totally innocent twitter follow, and then it was a completely innocent backwards and forwards over a period of time about a job, about careers. you know, you do that... what's wrong with that? on this morning, his former colleagues reacted. i remember what my mum said. my mum always said, you know, use your bible as your satnav in life, al, and in the bible, it says, "he without sin cast the first stone." phillip schofield spoke of what can happen when, as he puts it, the coverage becomes utterly relentless and out of control. he pointed to the suicide in 2020 of the former itv presenter caroline flack. how much do you want a man to take? and are you truly only happy when he's dead?

and this is how caroline flack felt, and it didn't stop. and i know i've done something wrong. i know i've done something wrong, and i've owned up to doing something wrong. you can watch the full interview phillip schofield did with amol rajan on iplayer. i've been talking to the mum of tv star caroline flack. caroline was facing prosecution for assaulting her boyfriend when she killed herself in february 2020. she'd been a presenter on itv�*s love island. christine flack says she believes the broadcaster hasn't learned the lessons since her daughter's death. i first asked her what she thought as the situation with phillip schofield played out. it worries me, because it'sjust... it's relentless on him. ifeel like, you know, i do feel worried for him. he actually talked about your daughter caroline in his interview. he said, and i'll quote it for you, "it is day after day after day after day.

"if you do that, if you don't think that is going to have the most "catastrophic effect on someone's mind... "do you want me to die? i have lost everything. "my girls saved my life. "if my girls hadn't been there, i wouldn't be here, "because i don't see a future. how much do you want a man to take? "and are you truly only happy when he's dead? "and this is how caroline felt, and it didn't stop." that's exactly how she felt. every day, she'd try and be a bit stronger, which i should imagine philip is, but you get more and more thrown at you, and, you know, it's not only him, it is his daughters, and luckily, he's got them there for support, but it's his family. why do you think he referenced caroline? he knew caroline, and i must say, when she died, he was very upset, and i think he's now realising even more what she went through.

but until it happens to you, you feel sad, but you don't understand. do you think itv have learned enough after the death of your daughter when it comes to a duty of care, both of phillip schofield and also both to phillip schofield and also the young man involved as well? no. no, they haven't learnt anything. they haven't. they treat them as commodities. and i know it's a lovelyjob, and i know that you earn money, but also, the television stations earn money from them. but they're not commodities, they're people, and they're employed. if my employer didn't take care of me, there'd be all hell to pay. and there's not. you know, they'rejust sidelined and not protected. and what would your message be tonight to the media

what would be your message tonight, if you have one, to the young man and to phillip schofield? i hate thought that philip and this young man are going through such an awful time. it's bad enough when you're... it's in private, but when it's in every single paper, let's hope for the best, and, you know, i send my regards to philip and the young lad, and hope they get over this, and they will. they will. don't do anything silly, or... you've got your daughters, you've got your friends. and i hope the young lad's got someone as well that they can talk to. christine flack. and if you need an orgnaisation to contact to help with any of the conversations we're having, please do contact the bbc�*s action line, the details of which are on your screen now. in response to christine flack�*s interview with us, an itv spokesperson said:

let's talk now to former culture minister lord vaizey and us howell, former head of news in an itv region and managing editor of sky news and now professor emeritus ofjournalism at city university. welcome to you both. phillip schofield has given his side of the story. does it raise further questions for itv? i story. does it raise further questions for itv?- story. does it raise further questions for itv? story. does it raise further cuestions for itv? ~ , , questions for itv? i think the best thin i questions for itv? i think the best thing i would _ questions for itv? i think the best thing i would like _ questions for itv? i think the best thing i would like to _ questions for itv? i think the best thing i would like to say _ questions for itv? i think the best thing i would like to say is, - questions for itv? i think the best thing i would like to say is, this i thing i would like to say is, this is notjust an itv issue, and itv is really getting it in the neck. people who go into the entertainment business know it is a high—risk, high reward business, a difficult business. there are always going to be problems. there was going to be envy, difficulty, people whose careers rise and fall. to pretend or assert that it is just a problem at itv is, i think, to be disingenuous.

it is a problem across the entertainment sector. it is also a problem as regards the tabloid press. they are responsible, in many cases, for making people's lives a misery. so don't let's just pretend it's itv, because it is not. are it's itv, because it is not. are there further _ it's itv, because it is not. are there further questions now we have seen phillip schofield's interview for itv? , ~ . for itv? yes, i think there are. the fact is, this — for itv? yes, i think there are. the fact is, this week, _ for itv? yes, i think there are. the fact is, this week, it _ for itv? yes, i think there are. the fact is, this week, it is _ for itv? yes, i think there are. the fact is, this week, it is itv's - fact is, this week, it is itv's problem. _ fact is, this week, it is itv's problem, and ifi fact is, this week, it is itv's problem, and if ijust sat there, with_ problem, and if ijust sat there, with due — problem, and if ijust sat there, with due respect, and said it is not 'ust with due respect, and said it is not just the _ with due respect, and said it is not just the british parliament public a problem. — just the british parliament public a problem, it is the german and french parliaments' — problem, it is the german and french parliaments' problem, you would not -ive parliaments' problem, you would not give me _ parliaments' problem, you would not give me much shrift. itv has announced an inquiry, and we might wonder_ announced an inquiry, and we might wonder why— announced an inquiry, and we might wonder why politicians are getting involved. — wonder why politicians are getting involved, but itv wrote to their media — involved, but itv wrote to their media regulator ofcom, the secretary of state _ media regulator ofcom, the secretary of state lucy fraser too, to tell them _ of state lucy fraser too, to tell them about this inquiry, and they are appearing in front of a select committee, the reason is, there is a bil committee, the reason is, there is a big bill_ committee, the reason is, there is a big bill going through parliament, the capital media bill, and itv as a public— the capital media bill, and itv as a public service broadcaster, and it would _ public service broadcaster, and it would be bizarre if mps did not

question— would be bizarre if mps did not question itv about what has happened. at the heart of this lies what you _ happened. at the heart of this lies what you have talked about, the duty of care _ what you have talked about, the duty of care did _ what you have talked about, the duty of care. did itv exercise a duty of care _ of care. did itv exercise a duty of care over— of care. did itv exercise a duty of care over this programme? doesn't have robust— care over this programme? doesn't have robust procedures in place when something _ have robust procedures in place when something like this takes place? —— does _ something like this takes place? —— does it? _ something like this takes place? —— does it? and — something like this takes place? —— does it? and i think as well, your vat show— does it? and i think as well, your vat show that there is an element, a sort of— vat show that there is an element, a sort of pattern that itv has to address _ sort of pattern that itv has to address. so they have decided by themselves to have an inquiry, and have _ themselves to have an inquiry, and have therefore put this in a public policy— have therefore put this in a public policy arena, and it is important we move _ policy arena, and it is important we move forward with it. do _ move forward with it. do you _ move forward with it. do you accept that even though apparently they did to inquiries, what about the toxic culture, one about the relationship, and they have announced another, they have got something wrong in my coat there are new allegations from other people saying things, and i think it is important that people saying things, and i think it is importan— people saying things, and i think it is imhortan ., , .,, ., is important that people are looking at this. is important that people are looking at this- the — is important that people are looking at this. the chronology _ is important that people are looking at this. the chronology of _ is important that people are looking at this. the chronology of these - at this. the chronology of these complaints is rather odd. people say that we knew phillip schofield was having an affair, we took it to the bosses, but the same people were in

the with him congratulating him congratulating him on coming out. what point are you making? that there is a lot _ what point are you making? that there is a lot of _ what point are you making? twat there is a lot of hypocrisy here already, there are people who say they new things, say the they went to the bosses and are blaming the bosses for a cover—up, but i can't see quite how that squares with congratulating phillip schofield for his behaviour.— his behaviour. let's talk about the bosses. his behaviour. let's talk about the bosses- they _ his behaviour. let's talk about the bosses. they asked _ his behaviour. let's talk about the bosses. they asked the _ his behaviour. let's talk about the bosses. they asked the question, | bosses. they asked the question, they said phillip schofield lied. they did not ask enough, did they? it was an open secret on the programme. it it was an open secret on the programme-— it was an open secret on the programme. it was an open secret on the rouramme. i. ., ., ., , .,, programme. if you go and ask people and they say — programme. if you go and ask people and they say no. _ programme. if you go and ask people and they say no, what _ programme. if you go and ask people and they say no, what are _ programme. if you go and ask people and they say no, what are you - programme. if you go and ask people and they say no, what are you going l and they say no, what are you going to do? it's very difficult. are you going to follow them home, as somebody said to mike if you're doing an inquiry, you can only go on what is told to you, and i think we must respect that sometimes people lie, and also that people have to have their own lives. you can't have a situation when you are chasing around, following up people trying to work out he was sleeping with her. what are we going to have, a situation where you have guidelines that say, well, a producer can sleep with a reporter, but a report i can't sleep with an executive

producer, and an executive producer can't have an affair with a runner, but i run i can have an affair with a... ? you know, it is ridiculous. is it ridiculous?— a... ? you know, it is ridiculous. is it ridiculous? well, i think that lis has something _ is it ridiculous? well, i think that lis has something of _ is it ridiculous? well, i think that lis has something of a _ is it ridiculous? well, i think that lis has something of a point - is it ridiculous? well, i think that lis has something of a point in i is it ridiculous? well, i think that l lis has something of a point in that this is_ lis has something of a point in that this is a _ lis has something of a point in that this is a nature issue, and should these _ this is a nature issue, and should these he — this is a nature issue, and should these be debated in parliament are considered by government departments? but considered by government departments?— considered by government departments? considered by government deartments? �* ., ., departments? but hang on. the management. — departments? but hang on. the management, it _ departments? but hang on. the management, it could _ departments? but hang on. the management, it could be - departments? but hang on. the i management, it could be argued, allowed and in equal power imbalance to become a problem. —— and unequal power balance. the management allow that. that is exec of the point i was going — that is exec of the point i was going to — that is exec of the point i was going to make. they are having this inquiry, _ going to make. they are having this inquiry, and — going to make. they are having this inquiry, and i was surprised at the tone _ inquiry, and i was surprised at the tone of— inquiry, and i was surprised at the tone of how— inquiry, and i was surprised at the tone of how itv are responding, because — tone of how itv are responding, because i— tone of how itv are responding, because i thought whether you thought— because i thought whether you thought it might be cynical or a pr ploy or— thought it might be cynical or a pr ploy or whatever, phillip schofield was very— ploy or whatever, phillip schofield was very powerful and made the point, _ was very powerful and made the point, which i think it is reinforced by lis,... by christine flack. yes, _ reinforced by lis,... by christine flack. yes, that _ reinforced by lis,... by christine flack. yes, that these _ reinforced by lis,... by christine flack. yes, that these are - reinforced by lis,... by christine| flack. yes, that these are human beinas, flack. yes, that these are human beings. and _ flack. yes, that these are human beings, and that _ flack. yes, that these are human beings, and that media _ flack. yes, that these are human beings, and that media pressure | flack. yes, that these are human i beings, and that media pressure can beings, and that media pressure can be utterly— beings, and that media pressure can be utterly relentless. i think there

is a feeling now that the spotlight has moved from phillip schofield, whatever— has moved from phillip schofield, whatever he did, however badly he did it. _ whatever he did, however badly he did it. to— whatever he did, however badly he did it, to saying, what are the procedures in place to look after people _ procedures in place to look after people who work on these programmes, and does _ people who work on these programmes, and does itv— people who work on these programmes, and does itv have robust procedures in place? _ and does itv have robust procedures in place? that may seem like a kind of gate _ in place? that may seem like a kind of gate char— in place? that may seem like a kind of gate char issue for a company, but it— of gate char issue for a company, but it is— of gate char issue for a company, but it is in— of gate char issue for a company, but it is in effective public policy _ but it is in effective public policy. -- _ but it is in effective public policy. —— and hr issue. but but it is in effective public policy. -- and hr issue. but if it is a public— policy. -- and hr issue. but if it is a public policy _ policy. -- and hr issue. but if it is a public policy issue, - policy. -- and hr issue. but if it is a public policy issue, it - policy. -- and hr issue. but if it is a public policy issue, it is - is a public policy issue, it is across a lot of platforms, and a lot of people must get involved in this. i would like to suggest that perhaps all media involved get together and talk about what can be done in the future to support people. as far as i know, itv is supporting the young man involved. the young man involved did not bring a complaint. so it seems to me that if itv is doing very much what they can do, but the industry as a whole could do more. let's stop blaming itv in this schadenfreude sort of way. it is all of the industry. let's get together and do something positive as a group. i think you make a very fair point.

when _ i think you make a very fair point. wherit— i think you make a very fair point. when i was — i think you make a very fair point. when i was culture minister, got the broadcasters in a room to talk about diversity _ broadcasters in a room to talk about diversity. you might well say, what is a minister— diversity. you might well say, what is a minister telling people, as it were, _ is a minister telling people, as it were, or— is a minister telling people, as it were, orasking is a minister telling people, as it were, or asking people is a minister telling people, as it were, orasking people in the broadcasting industry is who they should _ broadcasting industry is who they should hire? but you can use your convening — should hire? but you can use your convening power, and i think that is a very— convening power, and i think that is a very good — convening power, and i think that is a very good point. maybe when the select— a very good point. maybe when the select committee here from itv, they should _ select committee here from itv, they should segue from that hearing to say, let's— should segue from that hearing to say, let's have a proper hearing into the — say, let's have a proper hearing into the kind of practices across all our— into the kind of practices across all our broadcasters and media organisations. in terms of safeguarding and protection. and the _ safeguarding and protection. and the tabloids. it is everyone has a problem. thank you both very much. the man who's dominated turkey's politics for two decades will be inaugurated tomorrow as he begins a third term. what decisions, what choices president erdogan makes in the next five years really matter notjust for turkey, but for nato members — turkey's a founder member of nato — and for whatever the outcome at the end of the war in ukraine. it's reported that one of the first world leaders to congratulate president erdogan on his latest victory was vladimir putin, addressing erdogan as "dear friend",

with french president macron and us presidentjoe biden following later. despite their dislike of mr erdogan's relationship with the kremlin, to them, turkey is a crucial ally of the west. here's our international correspondent nawal al—maghafi. it's been a bitter and polarising campaign, but president recep tayyip erdogan has won. after 20 years in power, he's about to embark on five more. tomorrow, he announces his cabinet. his allies will be watching closely, particularly the west, because for many reasons, what turkey does matters to them. firstly, they'll be keeping a close eye on how erdogan deals with putin. although turkey is a key member of nato and has provided military aid to ukraine in the past, in his campaign, he said that his "special relationship" put him in a good position to act

as a broker over the war in ukraine. but this week, erdogan pulled out of the european summits meeting in moldova, a country heavily impacted by russia's war in ukraine, sparking fears he could be preparing to shift closer to moscow. turkey's relationship with russia is also a factor of turkey's relationship with the west. at times when turkey has warmer relations with the west, the turkish—russian relationship cools down. when turkey feels excluded by the west, the turkey—russia relationship gets closer. so for the last five years or so, president erdogan felt excluded by the west. let's see if this changes. secondly, migration. turkey is the bridge between the middle east and europe and so it's key in stopping refugees from crossing the mediterranean. previously, erdogan has cooperated with the eu, but with the increasing number

of syrian refugees at home proving extremely unpopular, will this continue? the turkish president took a firm stance, despite it being popular, to say that the refugee return would be immediate. he did say that it's still not safe there and that there would be a road map for a voluntary return, but this would require infrastructure and residential investments in the area, and this return would be to areas of turkish influence. and finally, sweden's membership of nato. it's no secret that the white house has actively tried to persuade erdogan to approve it. we're continuing to work to complete the accession process for sweden, another very strong and capable partner, and we fully anticipate doing so by the time the leaders meet in vilnius. stockholm's membership would provide important baltic sea cover for the alliance against russia. but for erdogan, this issue is linked to blocked us arms sales

to turkey, something biden is actively trying to resolve but congressional leaders are blocking. the problem before the election was that the united states didn't want to have anything to do with this, because they had distanced themselves, disengaged from turkey, out of concern that engaging turkey before the election could mean interfering in turkish elections. now that the election is over, washington can be engaged. erdogan is unpredictable. he's an ally the west wishes it didn't have to deal with, now in power for another term. the west is set for a more transactional style of diplomacy that mr erdogan himself is a master of. let's talk to a member of the central decision—making board of the akp, president erdogan's party, harun armagan.

thank you very much for speaking to us. one of president erdogan's first decisions after being re—elected was not to go to that summit in moldova, can you understand why some people are disappointed with that? good evenin: are disappointed with that? good evening from _ are disappointed with that? good evening from a _ are disappointed with that? good evening from a beautiful- are disappointed with that? (limp. evening from a beautiful and warm evening from a beautiful and warm evening in turkey. we are looking forward to welcoming many of your viewers to turkey this summer and we are also looking forward to having a stronger and warmer relationship with britain over the next five years. the work has already started and we are very excited to focus on the economy, strengthening the economy, rebuilding the earthquake area and of course maintaining the security of the country. in our region and beyond why and security of the country. in our region and beyond why and what about not auoin to region and beyond why and what about not going to the _ region and beyond why and what about not going to the summit _ region and beyond why and what about not going to the summit in moldova, l not going to the summit in moldova, do you understand why some people felt disappointed by that? mew. felt disappointed by that? well, turke is felt disappointed by that? well, turkey is a _ felt disappointed by that? well, turkey is a very _ felt disappointed by that? well, turkey is a very strong - felt disappointed by that? well, turkey is a very strong leader. felt disappointed by that? well, turkey is a very strong leader in the region, and we know that we will be playing a key role again in the

region, so some of the most important crises in our region, like the russia ukraine war and turkey's position is now a lot more aborted because turkey was the only country that actually was able a lot more important, because turkey was the only country that could bring russia to the table. bud only country that could bring russia to the table-— to the table. and president putin described president _ to the table. and president putin described president erdogan - to the table. and president putin described president erdogan as l to the table. and president putin described president erdogan as a dearfriend. does your described president erdogan as a dear friend. does your president see vladimir putin as a dear friend? dear friend. does your president see vladimir putin as a dearfriend? it vladimir putin as a dear friend? it wasn'tjust president putin in, it wasn'tjust president putin in, it was actually many leaders. president biden, president macron and many other leaders around the world. i'm sure every president around the world that president erdogan was re—elected, because we are a key merger partner, where the second largest nato army, that will not change but at the same time, we have a strong power in diplomacy, with

ourforeign policy and a strong power in diplomacy, with our foreign policy and the a strong power in diplomacy, with ourforeign policy and the president erdogan to actually make things possible to solve some of the problems for diplomacy. perhaps the biggest achievement in diplomacy last year was the grain deal that president erdogan and the diplomacy team has been able to secure with russia, that allowed ukrainian partners to continue in farming. —— ukrainian farmers. in partners to continue in farming. -- ukrainian farmers.— ukrainian farmers. in that spirit, can we meet — ukrainian farmers. in that spirit, can we expect your— ukrainian farmers. in that spirit, can we expect your president - ukrainian farmers. in that spirit, can we expect your president to | ukrainian farmers. in that spirit, . can we expect your president to call for a ceasefire from russia in ukraine? ~ , for a ceasefire from russia in ukraine?— for a ceasefire from russia in ukraine? ~ , ., , . ukraine? will we try, of course. we are still doing _ ukraine? will we try, of course. we are still doing the _ ukraine? will we try, of course. we are still doing the best _ ukraine? will we try, of course. we are still doing the best efforts - ukraine? will we try, of course. we are still doing the best efforts to i are still doing the best efforts to do that. we were both ladies to actually come and sit down at the table as well, but that diplomacy will look like it will still continue.— will look like it will still continue. ., ., continue. right, so that calling for a ceasefire — continue. right, so that calling for a ceasefire is _ continue. right, so that calling for a ceasefire is going _ continue. right, so that calling for a ceasefire is going to _ continue. right, so that calling for a ceasefire is going to happen? i continue. right, so that calling for| a ceasefire is going to happen? we are a ceasefire is going to happen? - are trying to bring down both sides on the table, and of course the ceasefire is part of this but we

want to make sure that this war is getting to the end, because it impacts the most countries, it impacts the most countries, it impacts the most countries, it impacts the whole region. thank you ve much impacts the whole region. thank you very much for— impacts the whole region. thank you very much for talking _ impacts the whole region. thank you very much for talking to _ impacts the whole region. thank you very much for talking to us _ very much for talking to us this evening, we appreciate your time. composer, writer, actor, lyricist, comedian tim minchin is back in london for his musical groundhog day, which has opened at the old vic theatre in london. it's based on the 1993 film which starred bill murray. i met tim minchin this afternoon and we talked about his writing, rejection, mental health and how he worries about being "cancelled". first he explained why a 30—year—old film is good materialfor a musical. there's not a lot of texts that can sort of hold the weight of a musical, if you're going to have characters break into song and tell you about how they feel. i mean, we all know it can be really sort of cheesy and a little bit, as australians say, daggy. and so i'm very interested in these sort of texts that ask big questions — like matilda, like how do you escape oppression

and how do you stand up to bullies and what do you do if you don't have love? where do you find love? what is family? if yourfamily is broken, where do you find a family? groundhog day, it opened here, i think i'm right in saying, in 2016 at the old vic, where we are, talking to you now. my favourite theatre in the world. it's stunning. you then took it to broadway. yeah, broadway. lovely, warm, cuddly broadway. well, that's interesting that you describe it like that, because some of the reviews were incredible. hollywood reporter described it like this — "groundhog day is a delirious reinvention with its own defiantly unique personality and relentless forward—backward spin that leaves you smiling, exhilarated and giddy." the new york times described

you as "insanely talented". and yet for various reasons, it closed early. what effect did that have on you? it's hard not to feel like you failed or that you've been rejected. probably it's more that, and broadway can make, especially outsiders, non—americans, it can really make you feel like... like you've been slapped down. it actually put a chip on my shoulder, i think. and it's the worst attribute in a person as lucky as me to be chippy. but i already have a bit of a chip because it took me until i was about 30 for anyone to employ me at all, which included every agent in australia, you know, saying no and, you know, and so i was already a bit like, you know, "i'm all right," you know, and then when you take a couple of hits and you lose a lot of time, it made me quite cross. but of course you're constantly going, "what are you cross about, you privileged dick?" you know. i mean, you've achieved

phenomenal success, but you are still driven. what is motivating you? well, i think it's just habit. so when when groundhog day closed on broadway, and not being dramatic about that effect, but it did make me feel sort of a bit, i don't know, like, more down than i'd felt for a while. are you happy right now? pretty good, yeah. really good. and actually, like... but is it hard to say that, "yeah, i'm happy"? well, it's hard to say it because it's 2023 and i'm a straight white dude. and what i meant to say and i feel it as well is i'm privileged, and there's certainly a sense of, like... you've got to choose your language. yeah, you don't want to say, "oh, that's just my upbringing." i mean, it feels smug to go, "yeah, no, you know..." and also i really believe in people being honest and there's nothing more sort of nauseating than a privileged, wealthy person going, "yeah, it's hard,"

and i don't think it's very hard, but i do think the human condition, and this is what groundhog day is about, is that happiness is not the natural state. i don't think it ever was in our evolution. i think it's a relative state. i want to ask you, you are obviously a master of, of... of what? words! words, the way you speak, the way you write. and and just a moment or two ago, you said, "oh, but i also have to say i'm privileged, i'm this and that." can i ask you what you think about the policing of language when it comes to writing lyrics, books, comedy? i think the main thing we all need to get better at is sitting in ambivalence. and part of the problem with how we police behaviour and language is it doesn't allow for much ambivalence. it's very... can be very... proscriptive. it could lead down the road

to you potentially being cancelled? is that what you're worried about? oh, yeah, i'm worried about being cancelled. the language is hopeless, though. so again, there has to be ambiguity. there has to be ambivalence in every conversation. my super progressive lefty friends who say there is no such thing as cancel culture, it's just powerful people getting what they deserve. and that is gaslightingly naive. that is... if you still think that, you're as bad as a climate denier. if you don't think there's a problem with call—out culture or public shaming, i prefer to talk about public shaming for all people, for women and people of colour. and it's not working the way you... if you think it's just working on old rich stale pale male dudes, you're not looking at the world. people are hurt by public shaming when they don't deserve to be. all day, every day. and it's grotesque and it's psychopathic. and it and it requires that you don't stand in another person's shoes.

i don't have any secrets.