live from london, this is bbc news. india's railways minister says the cause and those responsible for the country's worst train crash in decades have been identified. the governor of the russian border region belgorod has urged citizens to evacuate to avoid shelling as the area continues to come under bombardment. and the bbc understands the cost of detaining and deporting illegal migrants in the uk could reach £6 billion in two years. thousands of people are on the streets of warsaw protesting against a new law against russian influence, which critics say could target opposition politicans.

a signalling fault looks to be the most likely cause of india's deadliest train crash in more than a generation. at least 275 people were killed. hundreds of families are still scouring hospitals and morgues for missing relatives and authorities are struggling to identify the bodies. it happened when three trains collided near balasore, in the eastern state of odisha, as our india correspondent, archana shukla reports from the scene. hours have passed but not the pain. more injured brought in, but the struggle to find those missing continues. this is the last picture lilavati has of her 21—year—old son, taken when he boarded the ill—fated train. the 30—hour journey to reach the accident site has yielded nothing. translation: we have looked in all hospitals and morgues . here but can't find him.

at the morgue we even asked to see the photos of dead bodies over and over. he's not there. eight other members of lilavati's family on the same train were found. but with still no sign of her son, she breaks down. many others are shuttling between centres, scanning photos, hoping to get some news. amidst the sweltering heat and limited resources to manage the dead here in balasore, the administration has shifted all the dead bodies to the capital city of bhubaneswar. it's a five—hour drive from the train accident site. now that's added to the ordeal, as many families of the passengers are still trying to make their way into the city of balasore close to the accident site, considering train services are still not fully up and running. the wreckage is still being cleared. track inspections are on along some stretches, but what led to the disaster is not yet clear. what we have found is that there

is probability of some kind of signalling... not even... i wouldn't even call it a failure. signalling interference. pressure is mounting on the government, whose flagship programme has been increased railway connectivity and more high—speed trains. but for now, these families are looking for different answers. archana shukla, bbc news, balasore. that was reporting from the scene of the crash. i am nowjoined by subrat kumar pati, a freelance journalist, who is currently in the odisha's state capital, bhubaneswar. thank you very much forjoining us. lots of conclusion there, a lot of chaos in terms of identification of victims. what is the situation now?

the secretary said the same thing, this is the biggest challenge for the administration, to identify the dead bodies and to hand over the dead bodies and to hand over the dead bodies and to hand over the dead bodies to the families. only 100 deceased persons has been identified, and about 175 dead bodies remain unidentified. a huge number of bodies of their which has not been identified. this is a challenge. for balasore, the dead bodies have been transferred to bhubaneswar, the state capital of odisha. the dead bodies of their

with a refrigeration system. they can be stored for a week at least. again, this is an issue, how long the body can survive, because it was huge temperatures for two days in balasore. i huge temperatures for two days in balasore. . ., ., ,~' huge temperatures for two days in balasore. . ., ., ., balasore. i wanted to ask you about that, about — balasore. i wanted to ask you about that, about the _ balasore. i wanted to ask you about that, about the logistics. _ balasore. i wanted to ask you about that, about the logistics. as - balasore. i wanted to ask you about that, about the logistics. as you - that, about the logistics. as you say, bodies are being transferred to where you are, the capital of the state, bhubaneswar, that is about five hours away from the crash, and the weather is warm and hot, so how long can dead body survive in that temperature, and also in terms of identification, that makes the process a lot more challenging? i was in balasore, where the accident occurred a couple of days back. i was there for two days, and i've seen the dead bodies that are being recovered. they have started decomposing. in balasore, as it is a

small town, there is no proper facility of storing the dead bodies, there is no proper mark and refrigeration system. all those bodies have been transferred to the state capital in bhubaneswar, where hospitals are there, and the biggest hospitals are there, and the biggest hospital of medical sciences there, and some private hospitals or there, were dead bodies have been stored. the families of the deceased, they are coming to balasore and trying to find the dead bodies and identify them. many of the family members, they are not able to identify the dead bodies because they have been transferred to bhubaneswar. thank ou for transferred to bhubaneswar. thank

you for giving _ transferred to bhubaneswar. thank you for giving us — transferred to bhubaneswar. thank you for giving us that _ transferred to bhubaneswar. thank you for giving us that update, - transferred to bhubaneswar. thank you for giving us that update, and incredibly distressing situation thatis incredibly distressing situation that is unfolding in the state of odisha, just 2a hours after a fatal crash happened on the railways. let's turn to russia now. officials in russia's belgorod region have urged those living in towns and villages along the ukrainian border to evacuate to avoid cross—border shelling. the governor says more than 4,000 people have already been relocated to temporary accommodation in the region, which borders ukraine to its south and west. belgorod has come under heavy fire in recent days and its governor says last night saw more heavy shelling. on saturday, shelling reportedly killed two women in russian border villages. translation: i urged the villagers, first the shebekino district _ that has been shelled, to listen to the position of the authorities and leave — temporarily leave — their homes in order to safeguard what is important — your life and the lives of your loved ones. today we have more than 4,000 people

in temporary accommodation centres. all necessary assistance is provided. that was the governor of the region that has been evacuated in russia. sergey goryashko from our bbc russian service gave me this update. as mentioned by the governor, there were heavy shellings during the last 2a hours, as well as for the whole week or even months. border villages of the south eastern part of belgorod region are under heavy bombardment, but those shellings became more often in the last weeks. so now the authorities are evacuating people from the border villages. they are either now placed at the belgorod arena stadium, in the centre of the region, or some are staying with their relatives and friends in the more secure areas.

sergei, do we know who is actually behind the shelling at the moment? ukrainian authorities do not recognise responsibility, neither for the shellings nor for the offensives on the border. as we know, just weeks ago a group of militants entered the russian border villages in belgorod region, but ukraine did not take responsibility for that. they said these are anti—kremlin units which consist of russian citizens. still they apparently have access ukrainian munition and vehicles of the ukrainian army, as they are using western supplied weapons and machineries during those attacks. however, it is not still recognised officially, and russian authorities are saying that these

are terrorist attacks. that was an update about what is going on in belgorod in russia, and you can read more about that on our website, bbc news. the bbc understands that the cost of detaining and deporting people arriving in the uk on small boats — under proposals in the government's illegal migration bill — could reach £6 billion over the next 2 years. the immigration minister, robertjenrick, defended the government's approach, saying britain couldn't be a "soft touch." here's our political correspondent, aruna iyengar. stop these boats now. turn back the boats. time to tackle the small boats. stop the boats. it's one of the government's top priorities. 115,000 people arrived in small boats across the english channel last year, but the cost of the new proposals could reach £6 billion over the next two years.

ministers so far have not discussed these costs but say they believe the measures will be a deterrent to illegal entry. we will never put the interests of migrants above those of the british public. we also cannot allow the uk to be perceived to be a soft touch and i have spent the last week visiting european countries like france and italy and those further upstream in north africa and all european countries are grappling with the same challenge. the illegal migration bill, if it passes legal hurdles, will mean anyone arriving illegally by boat will be detained and removed to their home country, or other country deemed to be safe such as rwanda. then there is the cost of actually accommodating the people, providing them with food and health care and all the other things, and potentially also the cost associated with paying other countries to process claims as well. it is presently costing the government £6 million a day to house asylum seekers in the uk. many are put up in hotels. there is a huge backlog in processing cases, leading to greater accommodation costs. only in the last week,

a0 migrants in a hotel in central london protested against having to share rooms. the government wants to cut costs by reducing the need for hotels and to have three to four single men sharing a room. it is right we get good value for money for the taxpayer. so if single adult males can share a room and it is legal to do so, which will obviously depend on the size of accommodation, we will ask people to do that. i think that is a completely fair and reasonable approach. labour says the government has lost control of immigration and there's no guarantee the plans will get through parliament. the former uk prime minister, borisjohnson, has been warned that he could lose legal funding, if he undermines the coronavirus inquiry set up by the government. in extracts of a cabinet office letter published by the sunday times, mrjohnson is told he will have to submit any statements to officials so redactions can be applied.

the government has begun legal action to challenge the inquiry�*s demand to see all of the former prime minister's unredacted whatsapp messages and notebooks. he says he'll give them to the investigation directly. a 33—year—old man has been charged after being arrested during the fa cup final yesterday at wembley stadium. james white was charged with displaying threatening or abusive writing likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress. the met police say he was wearing a shirt with an offensive reference to the hillsborough tragedy, that's the 1989 football stadium crush that killed 97 people. you are watching bbc news. few people know the power of television testimony like phillip schofield. for more than a0 years, he has been central to our national life. but last week, he left his job on this morning on itv amid a blaze

of headlines and allegations. in response to newspaper enquiries, schofield has now admitted that he had an unwise but not illegal relationship with a younger member of staff on this morning. the younger man was 15 when they met, but 20, schofield says, when the relationship became sexual. in the past week, there has been an avalanche of newspaper stories and social media speculation and abuse. now, phillip schofield wants to tell his side of the story, and i want to ask him some questions on your behalf. phillip, thank you for speaking to me and to the bbc. you've had quite the week. how are you? um... it's like a weird... ..numbness.

i know that's a selfish point of view. but you come to a point... ..where you just think — how much are you supposed to take? if... ..all of those people that write all of that stuff... ..do they ever think... ..that there's actually... ..a person at the other end? and so... ..here i am. are you feeling 0k to do this? are you feeling strong enough to do this interview? yeah, i have to. why? why do you want to do this interview? because there is an innocent person here who didn't do anything wrong... ..who is vulnerable... ..and probably feels like i do. yeah, a lot of my questions

are going to be uncomfortable and, let's face it, intrusive, but you've chosen this opportunity to tell your side of the story, and there are questions that your viewers, all the people who supported you over the years, including yourfamily, will want answers to. there's also, of course, lots of questions for itv in all this. you mention this young man, and at the centre of recent events is a young man who, together with many others in the media, we're not going to name. you know, under article 8 of the human rights act, he has a right to privacy, and he's not here today to give his own account of events. when did you last speak to him? um... as i engaged the lawyerfor him. um, so he needed independent support. and so that was the last time. is that a few weeks ago now? yeah, a couple of weeks. 0k. when you say that you engaged his lawyer, do you mean you're paying for the independent legal advice that he's getting? 0k. when did you first meet this young man in question?

what were the circumstances? i was invited by a friend of mine to go to a school. something i've done thousands of times. whether it was immediately or some time after, he said, "will you follow him on twitter? because he's a fan." so i said, "yeah, sure. no problem." which i did. and... ..he probably came back saying, thanks for the follow. and he was, what, 15 at the time? i follow 11,300 people and, in all the time i've been on twitter, there has never been any whiff of impropriety. so he followed you on twitter, you followed him back. did you start having a sort of email exchange or direct message exchange of any kind? hardly, hardly at all. it was just, all the way through, just on and off and then... ..he asked if he could... ..visit the studios, work experience type of thing.

i said, "come down and have a look, for sure." which he did. how old was he when he made that first...? so, there's two stages there. how old was he when he first said to you, "i'm interested in television"? was he 18 by that point? 19 then, i'd think. 19 by then. and then when he said, "could i come and have work experience?" he would've been older than 19. well, just... more or less about the same time, cos i'd organised it. and what did he ask you for? so he asked you for work experience and you said, "sure, come and have a look"? i've done it all my life. i'm best friends with the people who got me into television. and i've always believed in paying it forward. and so... ..that was my... you know, ijust didn't think about it, you know, ijust did that. when you look back now, if you were to look back at those messages now, is there any sense in which you were flirting with him? no. i've been 41 years in television. you know, nothing like this before. you know, no accusations. i mean, this is, this is all, you know, accusations.

which is why i want to put them to you. and so, if you're honest now, getting brutally honest, if you think back to that — because a lot�*s happened since then, it's a long time ago — but if you think back to those initial interactions, was there any element of it which was sexual? no. so there's been a period of several years when you didn't meet him. yeah. yeah, i hadn't seen him. and then, when you met him in person, was there a little moment of sexual attraction then even? absolutely not. 0k. so, to be absolutely clear, how old was this young man when you first had any kind of sexual contact with him? 20. cos... i mean, this is obviously the nub of it. and, for the record, and to put speculation to rest, let me ask you directly — did you have any kind of sexual relationship or sex with him when he was underage? no. god, no.

i think that is, you know, in my statement, it says, you know, "consensual relationship, fully legal." i mean, that was approved by both sides, you know, that's... no, no. and then, when he got work experience at this morning, so he's then, he's 20 years old at this stage, he's someone who's come in. well, that was, i think by that stage, at 20, he'd done the... there was a... he came in for a visit, we went out for, cos he was going to be picked up, i was worried that he might be on his own, so i said, "well, we'll wait. let's go have a bite to eat." it wasn't a meal. it wasjust waiting for someone to pick him up. so it was, you know, "don't worry," you know, "don't go out there on your own," and be picked up. so, at that point, you weren't in any kind of a relationship? no. god, no. right, 0k. how long after it, after that, was it that you had the beginnings of a sexual relationship with him? he'd been working at the show for... ..a few months. and we'd become mates. we were mates.

and, you know, around the studios, you hang out together, you know, you chat to each other, that sort of stuff. erm... and then... ..in my dressing room one day... ..something happened. erm... ..which. .. ..you know, obviously, iwill... ..regret forever, for him and for me. mostly him. erm... but it... that happened maybe four or five times over the next few months. and... ..i know it's unforgivable. erm... but we weren't boyfriends. we weren't in a relationship.

i was really in a mess with my own sexuality at the time. and... ..itjust happened. how old was he at this stage? 20,21. and how else were you trying to help him? what else were you doing to help him with this morning? did you help him in terms of getting a showreel, or did you help him meet people because you had a lot of access...? i did a show... i helped him, and i think this might�*ve been before there'd been any contact. i helped him put his showreel together. so after he gets work experience at this morning... he's now got a job. so he was then given a job on his own merits because he was very good, erm, very good at his job. everybody loved him, erm, and... ..and worked very, very hard. yeah. i mean, it's clear from the testimony that lots of people have given him,

he's a hugely talented and capable young man. massively talented. yeah. just before we get into the relationship and what happened after that moment in the dressing room, if we go back, because you were very specific in your wording in your statement about how the relationship was "unwise but not illegal". and the question is — of legality — centres around your relationship with him before he was 18. just be really clear — your relationship between when you met him when he was 15 and then when he was 18 was occasional direct messages. no pictures of each other sent to each other? no. occasional direct messages, and you would say that that wasn't really flirtatious at all. just work—related, just, you know, career, careeradvice, career help. and no sort of sexual forwardness at all in any of that stuff? 0k. how long did you then have a relationship with him which was sexual in nature? as i said, it probably happened... ..five times, maybe six times, but nothing more than that. so when did your relationship with him end, and why?

i was, at the time... ..really in a...beginning to get into a very poor mental state with my own sexuality and... erm... and i thought that was bad — nothing like this. erm... and... ..i think it, you know, itjust sort of... ..drifted. i mean, we still stayed mates. we're still mates, you know, still stayed friendly. and i got him work, erm... because, obviously, you know, you're living in london, you're struggling and he... i got him runners�* jobs on other shows that i did because he was a very good runner and a mate and someone that, you know, someone that you know — it's always nice to have a team around you of people that you know. and did you ever tell holly willoughby? no. god, no.

and that's a bit of a bigger question, because we have... our make—up room was like a sanctuary, has always been a sanctuary, so you tell everything in that room. holly knows everything about me. i know everything about holly. all the team that are in there, when the door is closed, then that, you know, that's the sanctuary. and it is a wonderful, wonderful environment and something that i will miss deeply. and, erm... holly... i don't know whether holly ever asked me. she might have done, but i would have denied. holly did not know. nobody knew. and this has been the cataclysm of the lie, is that, you know, a lie... ..it starts in a denial. "no, no. gosh, no. no, not at all." and then the rumour came out. rumours started. and then you lie.

you know, you've had, you've had a workplace fling, then you lie about it. and a great many people would've had a workplace fling and lied about it. and i fully appreciate there is a massive age gap, but that happens in life as well. so you didn't tell anyone, but i wonder if people asked you... as you say, there'd been rumours for years and years and years about not only whether or not you were gay, but also about your relationship with this particular young man. so did anyone on the this morning team ask you whether you were gay or in a relationship with this young man? nobody ever asked me about being gay. but people asked you about being in a relationship with this young man? erm, i... when the rumour got bigger, then we were both asked. and people would say the circumstances are as follows here. you met someone who was a child, you were in a position of power over them. you used your power, eventually, to give them something they craved, which is a shot at a job in the media. you nurtured a relationship and then

that relationship became sexual. they might ask, what's the difference between that and grooming? well, i would say that your initial list of things was not right anyway. tell me why. because it was a totally innocent picture, a totally innocent twitter follow, of which i follow 11,400 people. and then it was a completely innocent backwards and forwards over a period of time about a job, about careers, you know? i mean, you do that, what's wrong with that? what's wrong with talking to someone, no matter what age they are? does that mean that, if you're following anyone on twitter, that you absolutely don't talk to anybody else or you don't give advice? so i disagree with the summation that you just gave, because that does paint a very grave picture. in which case, why do you say it was unwise? because you're clearly sensitive to the power differential and you're clearly mindful of the dangers of abuse of power. i don't... the brief communications backwards

and forwards up to the point that he came to work on this morning, erm, i think was just chat. erm... what was unwise was the fact that it happened. and that was a very, very grave error. now, it was consensual, but it was my fault. why? because i shouldn't have done it. i shouldn't have done it. it is entirely my... he is an innocent party here. and i appreciate, you know, how... ..you know, there is a moment. you have a moment. there'sjust a moment. but he is entirely and completely innocent, although it was consensual. i was older. i should've known better. i shouldn't...| shouldn't have done it. what specifically do you feel that you did that was wrong?

..kissed someone in the workplace, which led on to a little bit more. erm... and that... retrospectively, of course, you know, you think... my friends have said, "what the...? "what the hell were you thinking? you don't do that. "you've never done that." and i think there's no excuse. i'm not... i don't put any... there are no excuses here. i mean, i have... iam... erm... it's my fault, but... ..i think the fact that perhaps i was trying to come to terms with... ..who i was... ..what i was going to do about it, the effects that it would have... ..i think that's probably the reason.

and do you feel, just listening to how you talk about it, do you feel that what was morally wrong about it was that it involved an abuse of power because you were an older guy who had more power than him? that... obviously, that criticism has been levelled at me, but... well, i've never done that in my whole life. i've never abused my power anywhere. i'm not a bully. i don't... i mean, there are... god, you read the things that you're supposed to be. you know, we don't, i don't lord it around tv studios. everyone is a friend. i've gone through all of this time. most of the messages i've got are from people that i work with saying, "oh, my god, i can't believe they're saying this. "we love working with you." i don't... i snapped once, around about the time that i was coming out, i snapped at one of our producers. and after the meeting, i immediately got up, went to her and apologised. it's not me. i don't do that. i'm not rude on the studio floor. i don't bully people. i don't lord it around. we're all a very, very on—one—level team.

and that's been the important thing for me in 41 years of television. i can see how extremely concerned you are for the welfare of this young man. did you love him? no, we were just mates. we were mates. do you know if he has signed an nda, a nondisclosure agreement, preventing him from speaking? no. you don't know if he has? no. at the time... i was asked that earlier on — did i make him sign an nda? no, absolutely not. but there's a question of whether or not he was, as it were, paid off. no. in effect, if he was paid off, was he paid for his silence? no. god, no. no. so, is he free to speak, if he wants to? yeah. yes. i mean, what he wants

is for all of this to go away. he wants a quiet life. he didn't want any of this to happen in the first place. and i'm sure he completely regrets it. it was my fault. so he has nothing to regret because it was my fault. has there ever been, or is there an injunction or any sort of nda preventing media coverage of your relationship with him? no, and that was... he clears his throat that was one of the things, when the rumour started and then when it came to light, and obviously both of us said, "what the hell is this?" erm... "i don't know. i don't know." i said, "well, it'll go away." you know... .."i'm sure it'll go away." and then it started to grow legs and it got bigger and bigger. it was said there was a super injunction. it was said... ..erm... ..i'd got him fired, or moved on. all completely untrue. you work in television, you know the way the process works. no, you can't have someone moved on without it going through a whole team of people, the line of command.

why would this happen? ..i actually spoke to him the night before, or texted, either the night before or the morning of i came out, and said, "i'm going to come out tomorrow." and he said, "oh, my god, amazing. god, that's brave. well done. "i hope it goes 0k." so he knew about, he knew about that. he was never going to...he was never going to out me. we were still mates. and i think, at the time, it was written that the sun were going to out me. well, a, they weren't and b, that's illegal. so all of these things started to grow. it got bigger and it got bigger and it got bigger. it's been said that the sun had a story. they were approached in, i think, november 19, 2019 by the journalist dan wootton, who said he had the story that you were in a relationship with this young man, or had been in a relationship with this young man, and the sun knew about it,

but there's a claim now, so i'll invite you to address, that the sun knew both things. they knew you were gay and they knew that you'd had a relationship with this young man, but they decided not to do the story about you and the young man in return for the exclusive about you coming out. oh, god, no. no. no, no, no. no, no. absolutely, categorically untrue. we had massive meetings about... i had a secret whatsapp group... well, it wasn't. .. i had a whatsapp group called the event, of which there were a handful of people — my management, the closest management, me and my... ..and a guy who was a sort of a media lawyer type of thing — trying to figure out the most elegant way to do this.

holly and i had lunch. and... ..we're trying to figure out what was the best date. and then i was advised... ..when you do it, obviously, this is going to be, it's going to be big news. you should really have an interview afterwards. and it was suggested to me that, you know, the sun would be the paper to go to. 0k. so let me put directly what dan wootton says so that you can debunk if you wish to. dan wootton said, he works for gb news, "a decision had been made for the newspaper to have "a closer relationship with itv, and as part of that closer relationship, "they were offered," the sun was offered, "ringside seats "and an exclusive interview for this coming—out announcement. "as a result, obviously, they, the sun, wouldn't run a story "about the young runner. it was prompted by phillip." that is categorically untrue. and i've got to say, there are a great many things... ..that have been said that are categorically untrue. now, i have, you know, i have nothing against dan. and now i've actually brought myself

down to a far, far greater degree than you could ever have done. i have brought myself down. i am done. erm... i have to talk about television in the past tense, which breaks my heart. erm... but it continues. and it is relentless. and it is day after day after day after day. and if you do that, if you don't think that that is going to have the most catastrophic effect on someone's mind... what do you...? do you want me to die? because that's where i am. i have lost... ..everything. my... ..girls... ..saved my life. they said... ..last week, they haven't left me for a moment,

they've been by my side every moment because they're scared to let me out of their sight. what is that like, for daughters to have to go through something like that? and they said to me, "don't you dare do this on our watch. "we're supposed to be looking after you." and if my girls hadn't been there, i wouldn't be here, because i don't see a future. and so, how much do you want a man to take? and are you truly only happy... ..when he's dead? and this is how caroline flack felt. and it didn't stop. and i know i've done something wrong. i know i've done something wrong. i've owned up to doing something wrong. but a constant... ..friends texting me this morning, saying, "mate, this is relentless. "when is it going to stop?

what's the agenda? "when is this going to stop?" someone said, "you're being treated like jack the ripper." and i haven't looked at a single thing. i haven't. .. that would be, that would be the final push. i haven't looked at a single newspaper item. i deleted all the apps. i took off all my notifications. i have not... ..erm, looked at my phone or looked at the news. but people, well—meaning people, come through to you and, "can't believe this has just been said. "can't believe you're being painted out to be this person. "we know you. we love you. "please love the person that we know you are." all of those things. but still it comes, still it is utterly relentless, uncontrolled... ..online. why is all this coming out now, phillip? what was the catalyst? what changed ? it got too big. the lie got too big for both of us.

itjust got enormous. it was growing and growing and growing. and it crossed over from online to... ..mainstream news, and that had to stop. for his mental health, it had to stop. itv�*s position is that they — and they've only put out one statement about all this — they say they investigated allegations of an improper relationship and they were told by both you and the young man that there was no relationship. in retrospect, was that investigation a sham? because it clearly didn't get to the truth, did it? i think if you have two people who are lying, then what, what can you do? but what did that investigation amount to? i mean, was itjust a phone call to you and a phone call to the young man? was it sort of a proper sort of independent...? i think he was asked, he was asked quite a bit. i was asked a couple of times. so, you know, it's... and it wasn't formal. erm... but, yeah, i mean, i... i—i think... ..bearing in mind that there were two people who were absolutely intransigent in their denial,

that it would've been pretty hard. and so, did you co—ordinate your responses together to make sure the lie didn't get out? no. no, no. he lied independently, you lied independently? it was just, it was that he didn't ever want his name out there. he just wanted it all to go away. but some people would say, some people are saying, have said, that it stretches credulity to suggest that people at the top of itv wouldn't have known about your relationship with this young man. it was pretty well—known that the two of you were close and people had specifically raised this with the bosses of itv, and people say it's a quite a short journey from that to saying they should've done a proper and more thorough investigation and they should've got to the truth. isn't that a reasonable thing for people to say, given we're talking about abuse of power, potentially? given we're talking about workplace culture in an era where workplace culture is under the spotlight as never before? yes. yeah. they should have? 0k. yeah. erm, yeah. and you've been very clear about something else which you want to correct, which is — let me ask you directly — did you speak to anyone,

anyone at all, at itv about moving this young man on to another programme? absolutely, categorically not. he was a really good... ..erm, colleague, erm, runner — like, very good. and so... and so he... ..applied to go to loose women and got the job entirely on his own merits. and i can remember him coming to me and saying, "mate, i'm going to loose women." and i said, "that's fantastic, "that's brilliant." so the suggestion that itv moved him to solve a problem that they had festering on this morning is untrue? i do not believe there is any truth in that at all. 0k. dame carolyn mccall — i don't know if you've seen, given you turned off all the apps on your phone — but she's told staff at itv they instructed a barrister to carry out an external review of the facts following your statement and departure. will you comply with that external review, if asked? yeah. yes. 0k. when, in february 2020,

itv investigated whether you were having a relationship, they failed to get to the truth. when dr ranj singh, who was a regular guest on the show for many, many years, made a complaint, a formal complaint to the bosses of itv about toxicity on this morning, which i know we should discuss, they appointed an external independent adviser to do a review who found, and i quote, "no evidence of bullying "and discrimination." what would you say to those people who say, given that record, it's quite hard to have confidence in this latest review from itv? you know, you just hope that it will be thorough. and i will also point out, erm, that i don't know... some people perhaps may be toxic and see toxicity everywhere because that's the lens that they're looking at the world. there is no toxicity. there is no bullying. there is no discrimination at this morning. you've said, and you said in your statement on instagram, that there is no toxicity

at this morning, and it's clear listening to you that something you really want, you're clearly very protective of a programme that you worked on for 20 years, and understandably so, because that programme's reputation has taken a very severe hit. if there is no toxicity at this morning, why would dr ranj singh have felt compelled to make a formal complaint at the highest levels of itv about some particular individuals' behaviour and, as he described it, the environment at this morning? why would former staffers be contacting eamonn holmes, who i know is not running to be president of your fan club at the moment, but why would former staffers be contacting him to say that they signed nondisclosure agreements to, and i quote, "cover up the bullying and power abuse"? i mean, that sounds pretty toxic. i mean, i am obviously unaware of any of that. i mean, all of that goes on elsewhere. all i see is angry people shouting about a show they're not on any more. so, why do you think...? you asked a moment ago what it is that people want to see. they're seeing you lose yourjob, they're watching you now suffer. why do you think lots of people do seem to have it in for you?

are you toxic to them? god, i hope not. i know exac. .. i know what the issues are with two principal people who i wish... you know, i don't like toxicity. you've said that, to the best of your knowledge, the young man you had a sexual relationship with wasn't moved to loose women on anything other than his own merits, he was moved there because of his... got a promotion. he applied and got a promotion, and that wasn't a cultural sort of cover—up by itv. you've also said that, to the best of your knowledge, he hasn't been paid for his silence. he hasn't signed a nondisclosure agreement or there hasn't been any sort of injunction. but i guess the other allegation or accusation that was made of itv — and they can respond next week, interested to know what you think — it's not just that they displayed poor management, but it's that they allowed a culture of toxicity to develop at this morning but didn't do anything about it because the presenters were untouchable. it was all about keeping holly and phil happy. i think it is utterly untrue.

from my point of view, and i think holly would say exactly the same thing, that is utterly untrue. if there was toxicity between, you know, two members of a team that i was completely unaware of and they had beef with one another, then, you know, that's nothing to do with us. the programme that i love and the programme that i left... ..i have never seen that from my position — or heard it, in fact. when did you last speak to holly willoughby? i whatsapped her on the day that i put the statement up and i said to her... .."i know you can't reply. "you're probably not allowed to. "but please know that i am so desperately, desperately sorry." did she reply? no.

how would you characterise your relationship with her now? is it broken? i adore holly. i mean, i've always adored holly. she's my tv sister. erm, and i... from my point of view, no... ..i don't have a problem with holly at all. what would you say to her, given that she's doubtless listening to you now? what would you say to her about, maybe publicly that you've said privately, about how you'd like to apologise and your hopes for mending that relationship? i would say to everyone. erm... i would say to... ..myfamily... ..my friends, my work colleagues, the public, to itv, to my management company, to everyone that i lied to — i am... ..desperately, desperately sorry. but, principally, iwould like to apologise to him, because it may have been consensual,

it may have been fully legal, but i shouldn't have allowed it to happen. and that was a grave, grave error on my part. and i know that, because of that, an absolutely innocent person is being persecuted. on one particular point of fact, eamonn holmes has suggested that there were taxis from your apartment to the studio which this young man used, and that those were probably paid for by itv. did he frequently get taxis from your studio to...? he didn't frequently come to my flat. he came to the flat once. to my recollection, he didn't stay over. he said he was passing and he was going to come in for a beer. so the idea that he regularly got taxis from your home to your itv studios is... utterly, utterly untrue. and also, i don't have an itv car account. presenters don't get that.

when you came out as gay live on this morning, eamonn and his wife were there, as you say, they were kind, they hugged you, you hugged them. he now says he felt used. was that all fake? that's the implication of what he's saying, that there was this artifice to that day and that he was being used for a kind of reputational enhancement for you. you come out as gay as a reputational enhancement? i think that in itself speaks. when did you know you were gay? erm... i've spoke to my therapist about this because i had a wonderful marriage. have a wonderful marriage. er... not brilliant right now. erm... with an incredibly supportive wife and two beautiful children. who had the most amazing time as a family, us four is who we are.

and something started to trip me up and i couldn't figure out what it was. and my therapist had said, "you can, you know, "you can become aware. you can... "things change. things change." and... ..over a period of time, it was a kernel and it grew bigger and biggerand biggerand bigger until i was really mentally struggling and, like, deeply mentally struggling. and my relationship with my colleague coincided with that moment. i'm not... that is not an excuse. iam making... i make no excuses. do you mind me asking if that was your first gay relationship, or had you had gay flings or sexual experiences before then? i think this interview is not about other experiences. and it's obviously one of the hardest things that anyone who is gay can go through.

why did you come out when you did? you said nobody forced your hand, but why did you come out on the sofa when you did? because it had got to the point where i weighed 9.5 stone. erm... it was utterly torturing me. i couldn't sleep. i couldn't eat. erm... and... ..wanted to be brave. i'd spoke to, you know, i spoke through it with the family, who have all been incredible. let's come to some closing thoughts. do you feel, mindful as i am that you are very concerned about the welfare of one particular person, do you feel a victim in all this? no. i feel a victim of hate after the event. and i think probably that there will be a lot of people watching this, thinking, "how dare you?"

it would be easier for me to say i don't feel like a victim. what i feel a victim of is... ..spun areas of nonfactual information and gossip and nastiness. but i don't look any more. i've already told you how i feel. and i'm not in television any more. but you lived a lie, and with a lie, and you lived with a secret life for a long time, and they say the truth sets you free. so for all the stress that you've been living with, do you feel slightly liberated by speaking out today? i'm glad that it's not a lie any more. but i'm... if i could've taken the whole, full brunt of this without an innocent man being... ..hauled alongside... ..then fair play.

but the fact that an innocent man, his friends, his family, erm, the association is questioned. everything has been questioned because you can say anything online. there are a lot of lies on social media and there are a lot of lies about you. but i've got to ask — there are people who'd say, given he lied and lied in the past, why should we believe him today? well, i... only my friends and family need to worry about that because i... you don't have to worry about what i say any more, do you? i'lljust be saying that to the garden. have you been abandoned by a lot of people that you were close to? yes. but, interestingly, i have also... it's been a very fine, fine mesh of friends and... ..it�*s interesting to see who came through. and it's also interesting the new friends i've made,

because there are a lot of people who i've never really spoken to in my world who have reached out and been amazing. and one very prominent public figure phoned me the other day and said, "i wanted to check that you were 0k. "i have never seen such homophobia in my life." why do you think this coverage has been homophobic? if it was a heterosexual relationship, then, you know, it would've been a bit of nudge, nudge, wink, wink. if it's a gay relationship, then suddenly it raises eyebrows. it's wrong. people do find each other attractive in different age groups. i mean, it does happen, you know, but it's the mere fact that this is so gigantic. and i appreciate the workplace and, you know, the history and i get that. but it's the fact that it's, you know, it's so massive...

..is predominantly homophobia. is this the tip of the iceberg? are there more allegations and revelations to come or, as far as you're concerned, it's all out? this was my biggest. this was my biggest, sorriest secret. where do you think your career goes from here? nowhere. you were brandishing your wedding ring and i'd read that you had separated. are you? we are separated, but we're very much together. what would you like to say to her? oh, my god. can you imagine how difficult that conversation was? well, perhaps this one's slightly easier. she's not here, so you can... no, i mean... i will never... you know, i... mm. let's just say that it was an incredibly difficult conversation, the most difficult conversation i've ever had to have

with her and she is extremely disappointed because i lied to her as well. erm... but she wished me well today. and so... ..we'll see. and what would you say right now, publicly, to your daughters? my daughters were... i called them and said, "i have something to tell you." and they came out to see me and were... ..unbelievable. unbelievable. and i looked at them and thought, "well, you got that right. "and they don't think you're a bully "and they don't think you're toxic "and they know the man you are. "and they know you screwed up royally." and, finally, what would you say to the young man in question? to whom i am the most sorry. by getting involved with me...

..ihave... ..caused you so much... ..pain. erm... and... ..again, iam... i'll never forgive myself that i made a bad judgment call. and if only you knew, in one moment, just one moment... ..the judgment that i've had for 41 years, ..if i'd used it at that moment, then things would be very, very different for everybody. phillip schofield, thank you so much for your time. if you or someone you know has been affected by any issues raised in this programme, head to bbc action line for information and support.

hello there. good afternoon. well, it's fine and dry for the vast majority of us again today, with plenty of blue sky and sunshine, including here in hastings in east sussex, although always breezier towards the south coast, particularly across parts of kent and essex, of course, with that onshore wind. lots of blue sky and sunshine again across northern ireland. it's here and in western wales where we could see some of the highest temperatures in the uk over the next couple of days or so. but we're still plagued by this north sea cloud, shown here on the satellite picture. it is slowly burning back towards the coast, really from lincolnshire northwards towards eastern coastal areas. it could linger for much of the day.

some convective cloud too this afternoon across the high ground of scotland, also cumbria and northern ireland, where we could possibly see one or two light showers develop, but otherwise dry. temperatures in the low 20s, maybe 23 or 24 degrees celsius out towards the west. don't forget, the sunshine is strong at this time of year. the uv levels are high and the pollen levels are also high and will remain so as we head through next week. now, overnight tonight, of course, that cloud towards the east has got a bit more of a head start, so it's going to be more extensive, pushing its way further westwards into eastern wales and across the south of the uk, across the central belt too into tomorrow morning. temperatures milder underneath that cloud, clearer skies further west. watch out for a few mist patches developing into the start of the new week. this is how we're kicking off monday morning. again, that cloud will slowly burn back towards the coast. it could linger perhaps across the wash and east anglia, the lincolnshire coastline for a while, where it's always going to be feeling cooler. highest temperatures, best of the sunshine out towards the west, 23 or 24 degrees. now there will be a few changes as we head through the middle of the week and the end of the week

with this depression just moving its way further northwards, could throw us more high cloud out towards the south west and maybe one or two showers later on, too. also, as the high pressure migrates further eastwards, we're drawing a south easterly wind, just pushing this warm continental air our way, particularly into the south east of england, where we could see temperatures rise by the time we get to friday and saturday, in the mid to the high 20s in celsius. remember, it has been quite cool here of late. so in summary then, it's a dry start to the week. it's always sunnier in the west, cloudier further east, but by the end of the week, temperatures could be rising, a few showers possible.

and that's been the important thing for me in 41 years of television. live from london. this is bbc news. after ordering the evacuation of all border villages in the russian region of belgorod, the governor offers to meet a group of paramilitaries who say they seized two russian soldiers soldiers from the region. india's railways minister says the cause and those responsible for the country's worst train crash in decades have been identified. and the bbc understands the cost of detaining and deporting illegal migrants in the uk could reach £6 billion in two years. and thousands of people are on the streets of warsaw protesting against a new law against russian influence, which critics say could target opposition politicans.

hello.