borisjohnson claims boris johnson claims his borisjohnson claims his issues are all someone else�*s fault but it's his apparent inability that has led him into trouble. his his apparent inability that has led him into trouble.— him into trouble. his response to chuck angry _ him into trouble. his response to chuck angry rocks _ him into trouble. his response to chuck angry rocks at _ him into trouble. his response to chuck angry rocks at parliament, | chuck angry rocks at parliament, move seems to embarrass and enrage

yet i need to have his allies have followed him to the exit. maybe it's not so much a master or an epic strop. that fan all five, boris johnson has defined our times. a man with an enormous ability to create and to destroy. his enemies can never truly be sure he is gone. so what his does his decision to walk me now for the conservatives? and does really matter to the country any? grant shapps is live with us along with labours david lammy who wants boris's old job as foreign secretary. we hear also with nigel barrage who pushed the tories further and further on brexit and ourfirst big interview further and further on brexit and our first big interview with the first minister of scotland after a

rocky start in charge. and who make sense of this bout of madness? alan cumming performer and presenter of the new smash hit who swapped broadway for our big desk. michael howard once sacked boris johnson for lying. morning to all of you. you are very welcome to be with us. we were chatting about allen's show and we will talk about that later in the programme but first of the papers. most of the front pages feature boris johnson the papers. most of the front pages feature borisjohnson with different takes. the sunday mirror says that

the labour leader is demanding a general election. the sunday time says that allies are abandoning a tory mutiny. what's going on this morning? tory mutiny. what's going on this mornin: ? , tory mutiny. what's going on this morninu? , . tory mutiny. what's going on this mornin ? , ., ., tory mutiny. what's going on this mornin. ? , . . i” morning? isabel, what are you hearin: ? morning? isabel, what are you hearing? it's — morning? isabel, what are you hearing? it's a _ morning? isabel, what are you hearing? it's a toxic— morning? isabel, what are you hearing? it's a toxic cesspool. morning? isabel, what are you | hearing? it's a toxic cesspool of claim and counterclaim this morning. what is clear is that borisjohnson and his allies believe that they have been systematically misled, lied to again and again by downing street about that list of nominations for peerages. they allege very strongly, obviously they're not going on record with it that several of the names they have been assured were on that list were put forward the nominations committee that has the power to say yes or no, were actually removed from the list without their knowledge and never actually made it

through the process and for all these months they have been duped by number ten. that is staunchly denied. james forsyth used to be, his wife, played a key role in the party gate scandal taking the fall for that. ., , ., ., , for that. people might not have seen the good wife _ for that. people might not have seen the good wife you _ for that. people might not have seen the good wife you played _ for that. people might not have seen the good wife you played eli - for that. people might not have seen the good wife you played eli gold, . the good wife you played eli gold, the good wife you played eli gold, the dastardly spin doctor. what do you make of this? i the dastardly spin doctor. what do you make of this?— you make of this? i think what eli would do is _ you make of this? i think what eli would do is what _ you make of this? i think what eli would do is what a _ you make of this? i think what eli would do is what a lot _ you make of this? i think what eli would do is what a lot of- you make of this? i think what eli would do is what a lot of the - you make of this? i think what eli l would do is what a lot of the tories are doing _ would do is what a lot of the tories are doing which is to back away from the toxic_ are doing which is to back away from the toxic cesspit. there is nothing to he _ the toxic cesspit. there is nothing to he done — the toxic cesspit. there is nothing to be done. it seems that boris has reached _ to be done. it seems that boris has reached the — to be done. it seems that boris has reached the end of the line and when you see _ reached the end of the line and when you see them eating their own then

you see them eating their own then you know_ you see them eating their own then you know they've reached the end of the line _ you know they've reached the end of the line. ~ ., ., i. you know they've reached the end of the line. ~ ., ., ,, ., ~ ., you know they've reached the end of the line. ~ ., ., .,~ ., the line. what do you make of it? the government _ the line. what do you make of it? the government is _ the line. what do you make of it? the government is full _ the line. what do you make of it? the government is full of - the line. what do you make of it? the government is full of bumpsl the line. what do you make of it? | the government is full of bumps in the road. it’s the government is full of bumps in the road. 3 ., the government is full of bumps in the road. �* , ., , the government is full of bumps in the road. �*, ., , ., the government is full of bumps in the road. �* , ., , ., ., the government is full of bumps in the road. �*, ., , ., ., ., the road. it's a bit more than that, isn't it? there _ the road. it's a bit more than that, isn't it? there have _ the road. it's a bit more than that, isn't it? there have been - the road. it's a bit more than that, isn't it? there have been all- the road. it's a bit more than that, isn't it? there have been all kinds| isn't it? there have been all kinds of events and _ isn't it? there have been all kinds of events and i _ isn't it? there have been all kinds of events and i would _ isn't it? there have been all kinds of events and i would urge - of events and i would urge conservative members of parliament to remember that there is an election one year away and they have a choice between uniting behind the prime minister, doing everything they can to win the election or facing the fact that the country will be led by someone who at the last election urged everyone to make jeremy corbyn our prime minister. but people say of borisjohnson that he's the person connecting with voters, do you think it's a loss for the party for him to walk away however messy is?— the party for him to walk away however messy is? boris had many achievements _ however messy is? boris had many achievements to _ however messy is? boris had many achievements to his _ however messy is? boris had many achievements to his credit - however messy is? boris had many achievements to his credit there i however messy is? boris had many

achievements to his credit there is | achievements to his credit there is no doubt about that but it's his decision to walk away. it's his decision to walk away. it's his decision to walk away. it's his decision to leave the house of commons and he will have to face the consequences of that. irate commons and he will have to face the consequences of that.— consequences of that. we need to talk about the _ consequences of that. we need to talk about the fact _ consequences of that. we need to talk about the fact that _ consequences of that. we need to talk about the fact that he - consequences of that. we need to talk about the fact that he just - talk about the fact that he just lies constantly. that victory is based — lies constantly. that victory is based on _ lies constantly. that victory is based on lies, brexit is based on lies based on lies, brexit is based on ties that — based on lies, brexit is based on ties that he — based on lies, brexit is based on lies that he is told. you've got to he more — lies that he is told. you've got to be more frank about this that this person— be more frank about this that this person is— be more frank about this that this person is a — be more frank about this that this person is a compulsive liar leading our country— person is a compulsive liar leading our country for years. this person is a compulsive liar leading our country for years.— our country for years. this is more than a bump _ our country for years. this is more than a bump in — our country for years. this is more than a bump in the _ our country for years. this is more than a bump in the right. - our country for years. this is more than a bump in the right. the - our country for years. this is more than a bump in the right. the ideal than a bump in the right. the idea that boris— than a bump in the right. the idea that borisjohnson— than a bump in the right. the idea that borisjohnson is— than a bump in the right. the idea that borisjohnson is going - than a bump in the right. the idea that borisjohnson is going to- that borisjohnson is going to shuffle — that borisjohnson is going to shuffle off, _ that borisjohnson is going to shuffle off, go— that borisjohnson is going to shuffle off, go and _ that borisjohnson is going to shuffle off, go and be - that borisjohnson is going to shuffle off, go and be a - that borisjohnson is going to shuffle off, go and be a dad, | shuffle off, go and be a dad, changing _ shuffle off, go and be a dad, changing nappies _ shuffle off, go and be a dad, changing nappies for- shuffle off, go and be a dad, changing nappies for the - shuffle off, go and be a dad, l changing nappies for the next shuffle off, go and be a dad, - changing nappies for the next few years. _ changing nappies for the next few years. that's _ changing nappies for the next few years. that's an— changing nappies for the next few years, that's an absolute - changing nappies for the next few years, that's an absolute fantasy, changing nappies for the next few. years, that's an absolute fantasy, i am afraid — years, that's an absolute fantasy, i am afraid. they're _ years, that's an absolute fantasy, i am afraid. they're are _ years, that's an absolute fantasy, i am afraid. they're are big - years, that's an absolute fantasy, i i am afraid. they're are big showdowns to come _ am afraid. they're are big showdowns to come over— am afraid. they're are big showdowns to come over whether— am afraid. they're are big showdowns to come over whether or— am afraid. they're are big showdowns to come over whether or not - am afraid. they're are big showdowns to come over whether or not he - am afraid. they're are big showdowns to come over whether or not he triesl to come over whether or not he tries to come over whether or not he tries to get— to come over whether or not he tries to get back— to come over whether or not he tries to get back into— to come over whether or not he tries to get back into parliament. - to come over whether or not he tries to get back into parliament. does. to get back into parliament. does the party— to get back into parliament. does the party machine _ to get back into parliament. does the party machine try— to get back into parliament. does the party machine try to - to get back into parliament. does the party machine try to stop - to get back into parliament. doesi the party machine try to stop that happening? — the party machine try to stop that happening? inte— the party machine try to stop that happening?— the party machine try to stop that haueninu? ~ . ~ ., ., happening? we will talk about that with grant shapps _ happening? we will talk about that with grant shapps and _ happening? we will talk about that with grant shapps and boris - happening? we will talk about that. with grant shapps and boris johnson with grant shapps and borisjohnson has always said that he has told the truth. it's worth saying that we did

invite boris johnson truth. it's worth saying that we did invite borisjohnson to come and explain his exit this morning but neither he nor his well—known backers wanted to account for what's going on. one minister in response described them as cowardly piglets unwilling to defend their actions. one of borisjohnson sparv—mac holds backers talks about this. that erson backers talks about this. that person cannot _ backers talks about this. that person cannot be _ backers talks about this. that person cannot be me. - backers talks about this. that person cannot be me. i - backers talks about this. trust person cannot be me. i and we backers talks about this. trust person cannot be me. land we will person cannot be me. i and we will never take your support for granted. i must give the british people are very simple instruction, you must stay at home. i have been repeatedly assured since these allegations emerged that there was no party hand

on heart that i did not lie to the house. i want you to know how sad i am to be giving up the bestjob in the world. but then the brakes. then the world. but then the brakes. then the brakes- — the world. but then the brakes. then the brakes. now— the world. but then the brakes. then the brakes. now the _ the world. but then the brakes. then the brakes. now the tories have to face those breaks with three by—elections with a likelihood with a fort in scotland before too long. let's talk to grant shapps now. borisjohnson claimed on friday that he been found guilty by what he called a kangaroo court in his explosive statement, leaving parliament. do you agree that the committee looking at him was a kangaroo court?— kangaroo court? first of all, i haven't seen _ kangaroo court? first of all, i haven't seen the _ kangaroo court? first of all, i haven't seen the report - kangaroo court? first of all, i haven't seen the report and . kangaroo court? first of all, i l haven't seen the report and nor kangaroo court? first of all, i - haven't seen the report and nor have other mps. only boris seen that because he's was sent an advance copy of it. it's important to respect the institutions of parliament. this is not the government. this is parliament itself coming to a decision. 50 government. this is parliament itself coming to a decision. so it's not a kangaroo — itself coming to a decision. so it's not a kangaroo court? _ itself coming to a decision. so it's not a kangaroo court? i _ itself coming to a decision. so it's not a kangaroo court? i have - itself coming to a decision. so it's not a kangaroo court? i have not. not a kangaroo court? i have not seen what _ not a kangaroo court? i have not seen what they _ not a kangaroo court? i have not seen what they have _ not a kangaroo court? i have not seen what they have written -

not a kangaroo court? i have not seen what they have written but | not a kangaroo court? i have not| seen what they have written but i not a kangaroo court? i have not- seen what they have written but i do not have any reason to think that is the case. these committees are made up the case. these committees are made up of a balance of parties, so conservatives on that.- up of a balance of parties, so conservatives on that. boris johnson has claimed — conservatives on that. boris johnson has claimed that _ conservatives on that. boris johnson has claimed that he _ conservatives on that. boris johnson has claimed that he is _ conservatives on that. boris johnson has claimed that he is a _ conservatives on that. boris johnson has claimed that he is a victim - conservatives on that. boris johnson has claimed that he is a victim of. conservatives on that. boris johnson has claimed that he is a victim of a . has claimed that he is a victim of a witchhunt which is pretty dramatic. is he? i don't think that's true. i really like boris and i worked closely with him and i thought he had many qualities, brexit is completely stuck and he got through that, the pandemic, the vaccines, ukraine, many qualities but people looking at the conservative party from the outside do not miss the drama. what we've got with rishi sunak in downing street is a getting on with the job, downing street under new management. [30 on with the job, downing street under new management. do you think boris under new management. do you think itoris johnson — under new management. do you think boris johnson is _ under new management. do you think boris johnson is a _ under new management. do you think boris johnson is a victim? _ under new management. do you think boris johnson is a victim? he's - boris johnson is a victim? he's decided to _ boris johnson is a victim? he's decided to step _ boris johnson is a victim? he's decided to step down - boris johnson is a victim? he's decided to step down and - borisjohnson is a victim? he�*s decided to step down and that it borisjohnson is a victim? fl2�*3 decided to step down and that it is own decision. so he isn't a victim? i read what he said very carefully. he made that decision. he was

welcome to stay, a man of many qualities, but a calmer period is what the country wants and what it is getting with rishi sunak in downing street, as well. he also imlies downing street, as well. he also implies that _ downing street, as well. he also implies that the _ downing street, as well. he also implies that the government - downing street, as well. he also implies that the government is . downing street, as well. he also l implies that the government is not downing street, as well. he also - implies that the government is not a proper conservative one. you said he's not a victim. you said it's not a kangaroo court. is he's not a victim. you said it's not a kangaroo court.— a kangaroo court. is this a conservative _ a kangaroo court. is this a| conservative government? a kangaroo court. is this a - conservative government? we are doing a proper conservative things. the vast majority of this country wants to see us do. i won't list the prior prime minister's priorities. for example stopping the small boats. it's a conservative thing to do against the labour party who votes against all the policies to stop this. votes against all the policies to sto this. �* ~ ., �*, stop this. but i think what's interesting _ stop this. but i think what's interesting is _ stop this. but i think what's interesting is that _ stop this. but i think what's interesting is that words - stop this. but i think what's - interesting is that words matter and what you've said that the things borisjohnson claimed in his statement on friday aren't true. i think he's referring to a particular

set of circumstances in which he was involved which is going on for a very long time with the various different circumstances that we've all lived through. i think the country really wants to move on and they've got that with the priorities... they've got that with the priorities. . ._ they've got that with the priorities... they've got that with the riorities... , �* , ., , priorities... doesn't beat country actually want _ priorities... doesn't beat country actually want to _ priorities... doesn't beat country actually want to hear _ priorities... doesn't beat country actually want to hear politicians | priorities... doesn't beat country i actually want to hear politicians be straight with them in a way that borisjohnson was not. as you've basically said this morning in your answer is that what borisjohnson said on friday was not true, can you just say that?— just say that? you are asking me do i think just say that? you are asking me do i think that's — just say that? you are asking me do i think that's true? _ just say that? you are asking me do i think that's true? no, _ just say that? you are asking me do ithinkthat's true? no, |_ just say that? you are asking me do i think that's true? no, i don't - i think that's true? no, i don't think that's true. we following a fundamentally conservative approach to the world. if that labour government get in then... find to the world. if that labour government get in then... and we will be talking _ government get in then... and we will be talking to _ government get in then... and we will be talking to the _ government get in then... and we will be talking to the labour - government get in then... and we will be talking to the labour party| will be talking to the labour party in a few minutes. so you don't think what he said on friday was true. what about something else been said this morning, so his allies claim

all over the newspapers this morning and isabel oakeshott has reported to us and i've also been told this morning by other sources that rishi sunak remove names from the list of honours for the house of lords. i; that true? that list that came to him was a list that went to the house of lords commission which looks at this. just to be clear here, it went to that committee. the committee would have to say if the prime minister removed anyone. he's followed the very long—standing conventions that prime ministers follow who just take the list and pass it on. follow who 'ust take the list and pass it on.— follow who 'ust take the list and ass it on. , ., �* ., pass it on. our viewers aren't daft. my question _ pass it on. our viewers aren't daft. my question was — pass it on. our viewers aren't daft. my question was did _ pass it on. our viewers aren't daft. my question was did the _ pass it on. our viewers aren't daft. my question was did the prime - my question was did the prime minister buzz team remove names from the list some months ago, before it arrived with the prime minister in

the last few days? is arrived with the prime minister in the last few days?— arrived with the prime minister in the last few days? is that true? no. the process — the last few days? is that true? no. the process is _ the last few days? is that true? no. the process is that _ the last few days? is that true? no. the process is that the _ the last few days? is that true? no. the process is that the list - the last few days? is that true? no. the process is that the list comes i the process is that the list comes the prime minister and goes to the house of lords commission. they then make the recommendation. you are asking me if upfront that names were removed. no, he has followed the convention. i’m removed. no, he has followed the convention-— removed. no, he has followed the convention. �* . ., , convention. i'm asking you about his team. is it true _ convention. i'm asking you about his team. is it true that _ convention. i'm asking you about his team. is it true that a _ convention. i'm asking you about his team. is it true that a member - convention. i'm asking you about his team. is it true that a member of. team. is it true that a member of the prime minister's team took several names off borisjohnson's list of people he wanted to send to the house of lords some months ago. ijust want to the house of lords some months ago. i just want to get this on record. my i just want to get this on record. my understanding is no. so that is untrue? as far as i know it went to the commission who makes these decisions, including, they are the ones who do the betting, as well and both the list have been published by number ten today and this commission

would need to say if the prime minister had changed anything. thank ou for minister had changed anything. thank you for responding — minister had changed anything. thank you for responding to _ minister had changed anything. thank you for responding to that _ minister had changed anything. thank you for responding to that specific claim on record. if borisjohnson wanted to stand again as a conservative mp should he be allowed to do so? i conservative mp should he be allowed to do so? ., ., ., to do so? i would never want to assume- _ to do so? i would never want to assume- the — to do so? i would never want to assume. the party _ to do so? i would never want to assume. the party has - to do so? i would never want to assume. the party has a - to do so? i would never want to assume. the party has a clear . assume. the party has a clear process in place for anyone who wants to stand for the party. it would be entirely a matter for the party itself. aha, would be entirely a matter for the party itself-— would be entirely a matter for the -a itself. �* , ., , , party itself. a senior party member, cabinet member? _ party itself. a senior party member, cabinet member? i— party itself. a senior party member, cabinet member? i think _ party itself. a senior party member, cabinet member? i think it's - party itself. a senior party member, cabinet member? i think it's a - cabinet member? i think it's a hypothetical— cabinet member? i think it's a hypothetical point _ cabinet member? i think it's a hypothetical point at - cabinet member? i think it's a hypothetical point at the - cabinet member? i think it's a i hypothetical point at the moment because i do not think he is in the mindset to do that and the party would have to go through the usual process they would with anyone. same process they would with anyone. some of his colleagues, _ process they would with anyone. some of his colleagues, jacob _ process they would with anyone. some of his colleagues, jacob rees—mogg for example, says the party must allow to stand again or else they will be civil war? $5 allow to stand again or else they will be civil war?— allow to stand again or else they will be civil war? as far as i know, he's 'ust will be civil war? as far as i know, he'sjust resigned. _ will be civil war? as far as i know, he'sjust resigned. there - will be civil war? as far as i know, he'sjust resigned. there is - will be civil war? as far as i know, he'sjust resigned. there is no - he'sjust resigned. there is no chance of him coming back right now and saying i'm going to stand again.

there is no chance of him coming back? mr; there is no chance of him coming back? ~ , , ., , there is no chance of him coming back? ~ , , . , ., back? my understanding is he would not want to do _ back? my understanding is he would not want to do that _ back? my understanding is he would not want to do that so _ back? my understanding is he would not want to do that so that's - not want to do that so that's hypothetical. directly to you? know, not directly to me. it’s hypothetical. directly to you? know, not directly to me.— not directly to me. it's an important _ not directly to me. it's an important question - not directly to me. it's an i important question because not directly to me. it's an - important question because there not directly to me. it's an _ important question because there are people in the conservative party who would dearly love borisjohnson to stand again. he himself very carefully in his statement has said i'm leaving parliament for now. so in point of principle, should a prime minister who's been booted out ljy prime minister who's been booted out by his party, who was fined by police and it looks like a committee of mps are going to say he didn't tell the truth, be allowed to stand for the conservative party?- tell the truth, be allowed to stand for the conservative party? there is a arocess for the conservative party? there is a process by — for the conservative party? there is a process by which _ for the conservative party? there is a process by which the _ for the conservative party? there is a process by which the party - for the conservative party? there is a process by which the party hq - a process by which the party hq would decide on the same way as they do with any other candidate, exactly the same process as anyone else. we are rather in the realms of speculation here and it would be up to the party to make that decision.

not to the prime minister, not the parliament but the party. [30 not to the prime minister, not the parliament but the party.- parliament but the party. do you think more _ parliament but the party. do you think more mps _ parliament but the party. do you think more mps will— parliament but the party. do you think more mps will quit - parliament but the party. do you i think more mps will quit prez-mac think more mps will quit prez—mac it's very hard to predict the future but what i do know is that people do not miss the drama. i but what i do know is that people do not miss the drama.— not miss the drama. i think number ten under new— not miss the drama. i think number ten under new management - not miss the drama. i think number ten under new management is - not miss the drama. i think number i ten under new management is getting on with the priorities. while we see the euro zone in recession... so ou're the euro zone in recession... so you're not standing by for a big exodus? �*, you're not standing by for a big exodus? �* , , ., ., , ., exodus? it's very dangerous to -redict exodus? it's very dangerous to predict the _ exodus? it's very dangerous to predict the future. _ exodus? it's very dangerous to predict the future. i _ exodus? it's very dangerous to predict the future. i was - exodus? it's very dangerous to predict the future. i was partyl predict the future. i was party general in 2014 and it was the eve of the 2015 election and we have members of parliament switching parties with by—elections that we didn't win. we were still able to win the 2015 election and you do that by doing what rishi sunak is doing stopping the boats and growing economy and that is where we will be

entirely focused. d0 economy and that is where we will be entirely focused.— entirely focused. do you expect to lose seats in _ entirely focused. do you expect to lose seats in the _ entirely focused. do you expect to lose seats in the by-elections? i lose seats in the by—elections? again, you are asking me to pre—empt the electorate. d0 again, you are asking me to pre-empt the electorate-— the electorate. do you think there's any reason — the electorate. do you think there's any reason people _ the electorate. do you think there's any reason people would _ the electorate. do you think there's any reason people would vote i the electorate. do you think there's any reason people would vote for i the electorate. do you think there's . any reason people would vote for you right now when a lot of people consider this chaos.— right now when a lot of people consider this chaos. labour say that the are consider this chaos. labour say that they are or— consider this chaos. labour say that they are or are _ consider this chaos. labour say that they are or are not _ consider this chaos. labour say that they are or are not in _ consider this chaos. labour say that they are or are not in favour - consider this chaos. labour say that they are or are not in favour or- they are or are not in favour or taxing £28 million to do with their... ~ ., , ., their... were not focusing on them at the moment. _ their... were not focusing on them at the moment. we're _ their... were not focusing on them at the moment. we're focusing i their... were not focusing on them at the moment. we're focusing on | at the moment. we're focusing on our at the moment. we're focusing on your party- _ at the moment. we're focusing on your party- it _ at the moment. we're focusing on your party. it would _ at the moment. we're focusing on your party. it would add _ at the moment. we're focusing on your party. it would add £1000 i at the moment. we're focusing on your party. it would add £1000 of| your party. it would add £1000 of their energy bill. they are following the adjuster oil approach to energy security in this country and we ask about these by—elections, we will be saying to people, look at what a labour government would do. they'd follow just stop what a labour government would do. they'd followjust stop oil... i just want to ask your final question. why should our viewers have faith in the honours system that gives out gongs, send people to the house of lords to make them

lawmakers when there are people who have been implicated in the party gate scandal, some of them are the prime ministers friends and liz truss seems to be keen to send her friends to the house of lords. why should our viewers look at that and think that's any way to run a system? think that's any way to run a s stem? , ., think that's any way to run a system?— think that's any way to run a s stem? , ., . , think that's any way to run a s stem? , ., ., , ., system? first of all, there is an important _ system? first of all, there is an important question _ system? first of all, there is an important question here, i system? first of all, there is an | important question here, there's vetting, i'm surprised that after a series of general election wins over many years and 56% conservative mps in the commons, in the house of lords, we only have about one third of conservative so even after all these years, we do not have a majority in the house of lords. by contrast, gordon brown in his resignation list appointed 50 new people to the house of lords. we've seen the very small list from this current. i think the system is a bit too slow to reflect these realities

are people voting in a particular direction. , ., ,, ., ., ~ are people voting in a particular direction. , . ,, . , ,, . ~ direction. grant shapps, thank you ve much direction. grant shapps, thank you very much for— direction. grant shapps, thank you very much for coming _ direction. grant shapps, thank you very much for coming in. - direction. grant shapps, thank you very much for coming in. what i direction. grant shapps, thank you very much for coming in. what do | direction. grant shapps, thank you i very much for coming in. what do you think? we love to hear what you make of grant shapps's comments? you can use our social media or e—mail us. we will try and share some of the conversation with you later in the show and there's always tonnes on the bbc website which is there for you now. well, labour might be forgiven for lapping it all up but it's having problems of its own this week. david lammy is here, the shadow foreign stretchy. keir starmer is calling for election but if he thinks this is a fiasco, why is the lead between the labour party and the tories narrowing?— and the tories narrowing? what's ha-aened and the tories narrowing? what's happened over — and the tories narrowing? what's happened over the _ and the tories narrowing? what's happened over the last _ and the tories narrowing? what's happened over the last 48 - and the tories narrowing? what's happened over the last 48 hoursl and the tories narrowing? what'sl happened over the last 48 hours is unprecedented. we have a former prime minister crafting a letter

undermining the sitting prime minister and we've got three by—elections brought about, not in the usual way because an mp has passed away all day has been wrong doing that simply because these mps want to put pressure on the current government. in those circumstances, of course there should be a general election. we are having this conversation in extraordinarily serious times. inflation is running at 8.7%, there is a cost of living crisis squeezing people's weekly budget and we got war in europe. for all of those reason, our country needs certainty as we head forward over the next two years and that's why we are calling for a general election and we will put our case to the british people as you would expect. the british people as you would ex-ect. �* , , ., , expect. but my question is if everything — expect. but my question is if everything is _ expect. but my question is if everything is all _ expect. but my question is if everything is all so _ expect. but my question is if everything is all so terrible, | expect. but my question is if| everything is all so terrible, if they are doing such a terrible job, how do you then explained that in october the gap between labour and

conservatives is 30, then it was 20 now it's 15. conservatives is 30, then it was 20 now it's15. the trending is clear, the gap is narrowing so why do you claim it such a disaster?— the gap is narrowing so why do you claim it such a disaster? laura, you would be better— claim it such a disaster? laura, you would be better to _ claim it such a disaster? laura, you would be better to put _ claim it such a disaster? laura, you would be better to put that - claim it such a disaster? laura, you| would be better to put that question to a pollster. i'm not here to talk about polls. i'm here to talk about my day—to—day experience. when i speak to is voters, their rising inflation, then mortgages which have gone up which is a result of this government. they are raising the fact that they can't get a gp appointment and they are raising the big issues if they are waiting for cancer care in this country. those are the issues and for those reasons, of course, the labour party is ahead in the polls. but let us put our case to the british people and they can determine the direction of this country. d0 and they can determine the direction of this country-— of this country. do you think there is any chance _ of this country. do you think there is any chance of— of this country. do you think there is any chance of getting _ of this country. do you think there is any chance of getting a - of this country. do you think there is any chance of getting a general| is any chance of getting a general election? i've had as many hot dinners as i've heard an opposition leader say that. it's spin, isn't it? that keir starmer isn't gonna

get that? hate it? that keir starmer isn't gonna net that? ~ ., it? that keir starmer isn't gonna net that? . . , ., , , get that? we are in serious times. we need to _ get that? we are in serious times. we need to move _ get that? we are in serious times. we need to move forward - get that? we are in serious times. we need to move forward with i we need to move forward with purpose. we have got these terrible problems in people's everyday lives, war in europe and now we've got rishi sunak approving an honours list of people who believed and people who were involved in party gate. clearly week with a former prime minister doing his best to undermine him. let us have certainty move forward. i don't say this with glee, i say it because i genuinely believe in the interests of this country. believe in the interests of this count . ~ . ., , believe in the interests of this count . . . ., , �*, country. we need certainty. let's talk about _ country. we need certainty. let's talk about the _ country. we need certainty. let's talk about the honours _ country. we need certainty. let's talk about the honours system. . country. we need certainty. let's i talk about the honours system. you are clearly very unhappy with how the conservatives have been using this system. is it right in principle that prime minister should be able to send allies, former staffers tina house of lords? flit be able to send allies, former staffers tina house of lords? of the grenfell tower _

staffers tina house of lords? of the grenfell tower where _ staffers tina house of lords? of the grenfell tower where i _ staffers tina house of lords? of the grenfell tower where i lost - staffers tina house of lords? of the grenfell tower where i lost a - grenfell tower where i lost a friend, jacob rees—mogg said that the resident of that tower lacked common sense. i don't believe someone, he is someone who should have been rewarded. priti patel was found to be bullying in her department. i don't believe she should be rewarded and i don't believe that if the government sets rules for everybody else during the pandemic then it's right that those who encouraged parties in number ten should be rewarded. i’m who encouraged parties in number ten should be rewarded.— should be rewarded. i'm asking about the principle — should be rewarded. i'm asking about the principle here? _ should be rewarded. i'm asking about the principle here? you _ should be rewarded. i'm asking about the principle here? you don't- the principle here? you don't approve of those specifics but on a principle is it right that we have a system in this country whereby ministers can send their allies and friends to the house of lords or give them gongs for whatever reason it appears they fancy? the give them gongs for whatever reason it appears they fancy?— it appears they fancy? the principle is founded on _ it appears they fancy? the principle is founded on good _ it appears they fancy? the principle is founded on good faith _ it appears they fancy? the principle is founded on good faith and - it appears they fancy? the principle is founded on good faith and we'vel is founded on good faith and we've had prime ministers that have abided by that good faith. the problem is at the moment is that we have a lot of bad faith and that is why you put

the questions to grant shapps that you did. 50 the questions to grant shapps that ou did. ., ,., , the questions to grant shapps that ou did. ., , , , you did. so labours preserved the honour system — you did. so labours preserved the honour system as _ you did. so labours preserved the honour system as it _ you did. so labours preserved the honour system as it stands? i you did. so labours preserved the honour system as it stands? of. honour system as it stands? of course we honour system as it stands? oi course we would because in keir starmer you have a man of incredible integrity and i say that having known him for many, many years. let's get back to good faith politics. yes, we can work together and they can be consensus but we can address the big issues of our time. but i thought you wanted to get rid of the house of lords? ipupiith but i thought you wanted to get rid of the house of lords?— of the house of lords? with said the want of the house of lords? with said they want to _ of the house of lords? with said they want to preserve _ of the house of lords? with said they want to preserve the - of the house of lords? with said | they want to preserve the honour system that we do believe in this country and am thinking of ordinary people in communities like mine who were rewarded for the work they are doing for example for young people. but, yes, it's our intention in the first time to address the issues of the democratic deficit in the house of lords. 50 the democratic deficit in the house of lords. ,. ., , , the democratic deficit in the house of lords. ,. ., ,, ., , ., of lords. so scrapping the house of lords in the — of lords. so scrapping the house of lords in the first _ of lords. so scrapping the house of lords in the first term. _ of lords. so scrapping the house of lords in the first term. you've i of lords. so scrapping the house of lords in the first term. you've said | lords in the first term. you've said

that keir starmer is a man of integrity but this week labour has rather changed its word on what was meant to be one of your big flagship policies. rachel reeves has talked about the big green prosperity plan spending £28 billion on that moving to green energy, cleaning up factories, spending 28 billion except this week she kind of shifted it forward a bit. she's changed her mind. don't you want people to be able to trust you know that when you say something as a party you're going to stick to it?— going to stick to it? look, the british economy _ going to stick to it? look, the british economy can - going to stick to it? look, the british economy can succeed l going to stick to it? look, the | british economy can succeed if going to stick to it? look, the i british economy can succeed if we win the race the clean energy, leading to renewables, solar, wind, nuclear and jobs of the future. the japanese are spending 16 billion annually. the germans are spending 19 billion annually. we are not currently in the race but we are

absolutely clear that we've got to stick to our fiscal rules. rachel reeves set those out and we want to see a reduction in deficit on day—to—day spending that we want to see a reduction in our debt and of course we will only borrow to spend where we are investing in our economy. forthat where we are investing in our economy. for that reason, we will delay that 28 billion to spend until the second half of the year if we win the general election. but what ha-aens win the general election. but what ha ens if win the general election. but what happens if in _ win the general election. but what happens if in 2026-27 _ win the general election. but what happens if in 2026-27 the - win the general election. but what| happens if in 2026-27 the economy win the general election. but what i happens if in 2026-27 the economy is happens if in 2026—27 the economy is still in negative and you've set out those fiscal rules, will the green spending get delayed again? me’oe spending get delayed again? we've had 12 interest _ spending get delayed again? we've had 12 interest rate _ spending get delayed again? we've had 12 interest rate rises _ spending get delayed again? we've had 12 interest rate rises since i spending get delayed again? -- had 12 interest rate rises since we announced our green prosperity plans eight months ago. inflation is running at 8.7%. the government crashed the economy and mortgages have gone up. i hope they don't do that again but if they do do that we

will put this into our fiscal rules. david lammy, thank you. labour there, trying to maximise the tory�*s payne and grant shapps trying to move the conversation on. let's move to a panel. michael, what did you think of what mr schatz said? i think of what mr schatz said? i think he was trying to say that borisjohnson was not think he was trying to say that boris johnson was not telling think he was trying to say that borisjohnson was not telling the whole truth on friday in his explosive statement will stop did he manage? explosive statement will stop did he manare? ., ., ~' ~' explosive statement will stop did he manaue? ., ., ~ ~ . explosive statement will stop did he manale? 4' . ., manage? look, i think he did. we are all under a disadvantage _ manage? look, i think he did. we are all under a disadvantage because i all under a disadvantage because we've not seen the report from the committee. we do not know what it says and that's going to be a very important point. it affected many of the questions that you put to grant shapps but it affects for example whether boris johnson shapps but it affects for example whether borisjohnson could ever come back into the house of commons so we are all in the dark. we have not seen the report so we can't have a judgment on that. the

not seen the report so we can't have a judgment on that.— a judgment on that. the report says he didn't tell _ a judgment on that. the report says he didn't tell the _ a judgment on that. the report says he didn't tell the truth _ a judgment on that. the report says he didn't tell the truth wouldn't i he didn't tell the truth wouldn't have been this fiasco. that's certainly the direction of travel from the conversations i've had. do you think borisjohnson should be allowed to stand the conservative party again, if you think boris johnson should be allowed to stand the conservative party again, if he wanted him standing again in the immediate future but whatever happens after that will depend at least in part on what the report says. i least in part on what the report sa s. ., �* ~' ., least in part on what the report sa s. ., �* ~ ., ., least in part on what the report sas. ~ ., ., says. i don't know what it says. even you _ says. i don't know what it says. even you don't _ says. i don't know what it says. even you don't know _ says. i don't know what it says. even you don't know what i says. i don't know what it says. even you don't know what it i says. i don't know what it says. i even you don't know what it says. i don't know everything that everyone knows the direction of travel. i've put those pieces of reporting of yours, isabel, about borisjohnson's allies fury that rishi sunak has turned them over. grant shapps did deny that had happened. he is rather den in: it deny that had happened. he is rather denying it different _ deny that had happened. he is rather denying it different premise. - deny that had happened. he is rather denying it different premise. i - denying it different premise. i rather— denying it different premise. i rather don't think you understood that -- _ rather don't think you understood that —— think he understood, the

names— that —— think he understood, the names never reached the destination he was _ names never reached the destination he was talking about. we've got no clarity _ he was talking about. we've got no clarity on _ he was talking about. we've got no clarity on whether that is the case or not— clarity on whether that is the case or not the — clarity on whether that is the case or not the case. two things i took from _ or not the case. two things i took from his— or not the case. two things i took from his interview, he is not denying _ from his interview, he is not denying in— from his interview, he is not denying in that interview with you that the _ denying in that interview with you that the party would block boris johnson — that the party would block boris johnson from attempting to stand again _ johnson from attempting to stand again for— johnson from attempting to stand again. for example, ina johnson from attempting to stand again. for example, in a by—election orat— again. for example, in a by—election orat the— again. for example, in a by—election or at the next— again. for example, in a by—election or at the next election and secondly, he is claiming that boris doesn't _ secondly, he is claiming that boris doesn't want to come back. that is nonsense- — doesn't want to come back. that is nonsense. alan _ doesn't want to come back. that is nonsense. alan what _ doesn't want to come back. that is nonsense. alan what did _ doesn't want to come back. that is nonsense. alan what did you i doesn't want to come back. that is nonsense. alan what did you make doesn't want to come back. that is i nonsense. alan what did you make of that? the thing _ nonsense. alan what did you make of that? the thing i— nonsense. alan what did you make of that? the thing | took _ nonsense. alan what did you make of that? the thing i took away _ nonsense. alan what did you make of that? the thing i took away from i that? the thing i took away from that? the thing i took away from that is— that? the thing i took away from that is that — that? the thing i took away from that is that he _ that? the thing i took away from that is that he was _ that? the thing i took away from that is that he was rabbiting i that? the thing i took away from that is that he was rabbiting on i that is that he was rabbiting on about— that is that he was rabbiting on about the — that is that he was rabbiting on about the house _ that is that he was rabbiting on about the house of— that is that he was rabbiting on about the house of lords - that is that he was rabbiting on about the house of lords and l that is that he was rabbiting on i about the house of lords and these gifts _ about the house of lords and these gifts that's — about the house of lords and these gifts. that's politics— about the house of lords and these gifts. that's politics for— about the house of lords and these gifts. that's politics for you! - about the house of lords and these gifts. that's politics for you! yes, i gifts. that's politics for you! yes, i gifts. that's politics for you! yes, i know _ gifts. that's politics for you! yes, i know we — gifts. that's politics for you! yes, i know we are _ gifts. that's politics for you! yes, i know. we are talking _ gifts. that's politics for you! yes, i know. we are talking about i gifts. that's politics for you! yes, i know. we are talking about so l gifts. that's politics for you! yes, i i know. we are talking about so much of the _ i know. we are talking about so much of the conversation _ i know. we are talking about so much of the conversation whether- i know. we are talking about so much of the conversation whether someone was going _ of the conversation whether someone was going to — of the conversation whether someone was going to get _ of the conversation whether someone was going to get a _ of the conversation whether someone was going to get a nice _ of the conversation whether someone was going to get a nice gift _ of the conversation whether someone was going to get a nice gift like - was going to get a nice gift like giving — was going to get a nice gift like giving a — was going to get a nice gift like giving a tip _ was going to get a nice gift like giving a tip to— was going to get a nice gift like giving a tip to your— was going to get a nice gift like giving a tip to your weight i was going to get a nice gift like giving a tip to your weight at i was going to get a nice gift like i giving a tip to your weight at the end of— giving a tip to your weight at the end of your— giving a tip to your weight at the end of your meal. _ giving a tip to your weight at the end of your meal. it's _ giving a tip to your weight at the end of your meal. it's a - giving a tip to your weight at thel end of your meal. it's a peerage, not a _ end of your meal. it's a peerage, not a tip — end of your meal. it's a peerage, not a tip and _ end of your meal. it's a peerage, not a tip and someone _ end of your meal. it's a peerage, not a tip and someone is - end of your meal. it's a peerage, not a tip and someone is going i end of your meal. it's a peerage, | not a tip and someone is going to end of your meal. it's a peerage, i not a tip and someone is going to be control— not a tip and someone is going to be control of— not a tip and someone is going to be control of laws — not a tip and someone is going to be control of laws for— not a tip and someone is going to be control of laws for the _ not a tip and someone is going to be control of laws for the rest _ not a tip and someone is going to be control of laws for the rest of- control of laws for the rest of their— control of laws for the rest of their life _ control of laws for the rest of their life will _ control of laws for the rest of their life will affect _ control of laws for the rest of their life will affect the - control of laws for the rest ofi their life will affect the whole control of laws for the rest of. their life will affect the whole of their life will affect the whole of the british— their life will affect the whole of the british people. _ their life will affect the whole of the british people. that - their life will affect the whole of the british people. that to- their life will affect the whole of the british people. that to me i their life will affect the whole of- the british people. that to me seems

to be the _ the british people. that to me seems to be the problem, _ the british people. that to me seems to be the problem, an _ the british people. that to me seems to be the problem, an archaic- the british people. that to me seems to be the problem, an archaic system that we _ to be the problem, an archaic system that we have — to be the problem, an archaic system that we have i'm _ to be the problem, an archaic system that we have. i'm kind— to be the problem, an archaic system that we have. i'm kind of— to be the problem, an archaic system that we have. i'm kind of horrified i that we have. i'm kind of horrified that we have. i'm kind of horrified that labour— that we have. i'm kind of horrified that labour are _ that we have. i'm kind of horrified that labour are going _ that we have. i'm kind of horrified that labour are going to _ that we have. i'm kind of horrified that labour are going to do - that we have. i'm kind of horrified. that labour are going to do nothing to amend _ that labour are going to do nothing to amend that _ that labour are going to do nothing to amend that or— that labour are going to do nothing to amend that or to _ that labour are going to do nothing to amend that or to even— that labour are going to do nothing to amend that or to even take i that labour are going to do nothing| to amend that or to even take steps to amend that or to even take steps to change _ to amend that or to even take steps to change that _ to amend that or to even take steps to change that. [it's _ to amend that or to even take steps to change that-— to change that. it's labour policy to change that. it's labour policy to net rid to change that. it's labour policy to get rid of— to change that. it's labour policy to get rid of the _ to change that. it's labour policy to get rid of the house _ to change that. it's labour policy to get rid of the house of- to change that. it's labour policy to get rid of the house of lords i to change that. it's labour policy. to get rid of the house of lords or have a good old look at it but then he did say but we quite fancied keeping the honours system. this is a roblem keeping the honours system. this is a problem with _ keeping the honours system. this is a problem with british _ keeping the honours system. this is a problem with british politics, - a problem with british politics, you've — a problem with british politics, you've got _ a problem with british politics, you've got conservative - a problem with british politics, | you've got conservative politics a problem with british politics, - you've got conservative politics and then conservative _ you've got conservative politics and then conservative light _ you've got conservative politics and then conservative light with - you've got conservative politics and then conservative light with the - then conservative light with the labour — then conservative light with the labour party _ then conservative light with the labour party. where _ then conservative light with the labour party. where do - then conservative light with the labour party. where do the - then conservative light with the - labour party. where do the working people _ labour party. where do the working people of— labour party. where do the working people of this — labour party. where do the working people of this country _ labour party. where do the working people of this country who - labour party. where do the working people of this country who want - labour party. where do the working people of this country who want a l people of this country who want a little _ people of this country who want a little more — people of this country who want a little more left—wing. _ people of this country who want a little more left—wing. there - people of this country who want a little more left—wing. there is- people of this country who want a little more left—wing. there is no| little more left—wing. there is no option— little more left—wing. there is no option for— little more left—wing. there is no option for them _ little more left—wing. there is no option for them any— little more left—wing. there is no option for them any more - little more left—wing. there is no option for them any more and . little more left—wing. there is no. option for them any more and that little more left—wing. there is no- option for them any more and that to me is— option for them any more and that to me is the _ option for them any more and that to me is the gaping _ option for them any more and that to me is the gaping hole, _ option for them any more and that to me is the gaping hole, [— option for them any more and that to me is the gaping hole,— me is the gaping hole, i think corruption — me is the gaping hole, i think corruption in _ me is the gaping hole, i think corruption in the _ me is the gaping hole, i think corruption in the system - me is the gaping hole, i think corruption in the system is i me is the gaping hole, i think i corruption in the system is much worse _ corruption in the system is much worse than — corruption in the system is much worse than we realise. i was talking to a major— worse than we realise. i was talking to a major tory donor yesterday who told me _ to a major tory donor yesterday who told me in— to a major tory donor yesterday who told me in graphic terms how it is behind—the—scenes in these soirees they have _ behind—the—scenes in these soirees they have with big donors where they were quite _ they have with big donors where they were quite brazenly saying, i'll

give _ were quite brazenly saying, i'll give you — were quite brazenly saying, i'll give you a _ were quite brazenly saying, i'll give you a few million but you must -ive give you a few million but you must give a _ give you a few million but you must give a nomination to my daughter, my wife, _ give a nomination to my daughter, my wife, and _ give a nomination to my daughter, my wife, and so _ give a nomination to my daughter, my wife, and so on. absolutely shameless. is wife, and so on. absolutely shameless.— wife, and so on. absolutely i shameless._ know wife, and so on. absolutely - shameless._ know it's shameless. is that fair? know it's not. i shameless. is that fair? know it's not- i used _ shameless. is that fair? know it's not- i used to _ shameless. is that fair? know it's not. i used to be _ shameless. is that fair? know it's not. i used to be a _ shameless. is that fair? know it's not. i used to be a member- shameless. is that fair? know it's not. i used to be a member of. shameless. is that fair? know it's| not. i used to be a member of the appointments and no one can be appointed to a peerage unless they are approved and improved mac —— investigated. are approved and improved mac -- investigated-— investigated. some of the people auoin to investigated. some of the people going to thousand _ investigated. some of the people going to thousand lords - investigated. some of the people going to thousand lords are - investigated. some of the people l going to thousand lords are people who tied _ going to thousand lords are people who lied about _ going to thousand lords are people who lied about partygate. - going to thousand lords are people who lied about partygate. they - going to thousand lords are people who lied about partygate. they are| who lied about partygate. they are not peoptem — who lied about partygate. they are not people... are _ who lied about partygate. they are not peeple- - -_ who lied about partygate. they are not people... are not 'ust peerages. it's other things. _ not people... are not 'ust peerages. it's other things. 0k, — not people... are notjust peerages. it's other things. 0k, more - not people... are notjust peerages. it's other things. 0k, more from - not people... are notjust peerages. j it's other things. 0k, more from you in the moment— it's other things. 0k, more from you in the moment but _ it's other things. 0k, more from you in the moment but someone - it's other things. 0k, more from you in the moment but someone who - it's other things. 0k, more from you in the moment but someone who is l it's other things. 0k, more from you i in the moment but someone who is not going to the house of lords as far as we know it is nigel farage who it

is of course someone whose position on brexit pushed the conservatives further and further. whether you love him or hate him, there is no question that like borisjohnson, nigel farage has been a very influentialfigure. earlierthis morning i caught up with him and asked him what he thought of the conservatives latest bout of chaos. i think it's the end of boris johnson in the conservative party. whether he'll go for this or that seat. he is virtuallyjust gifted the seat. if you really want to be in politics, he will have to be part of some sort of centre—right realignment. it's been good but years ago, the referendum stopped it. the insurgency was getting such a level about this happening. someone who would want to be part of a new part break the mould of british politics i look at reform at

the moment but the gap for another insurgency. the moment but the gap for another insuruen . ~ ., ~' ., the moment but the gap for another insuruen . ~ ., ~ ., ., ~' the moment but the gap for another insuruen . ~ ., ~ ., ., ~ . ., insurgency. would like to work a to fill that gap? _ insurgency. would like to work a to fill that gap? there's _ insurgency. would like to work a to fill that gap? there's a _ insurgency. would like to work a to fill that gap? there's a difference l fill that gap? there's a difference between policy. _ fill that gap? there's a difference between policy, be _ fill that gap? there's a difference between policy, be it— fill that gap? there's a difference between policy, be it net-zero, l fill that gap? there's a difference l between policy, be it net-zero, his between policy, be it net—zero, his relaxed attitude towards net migration numbers, but on big issue but on the issue of brexit, we were on the same side.— but on the issue of brexit, we were on the same side. yes, you helped a lot in 2019- — on the same side. yes, you helped a lot in 2019. and — on the same side. yes, you helped a lot in 2019. and got _ on the same side. yes, you helped a lot in 2019. and got rid _ on the same side. yes, you helped a lot in 2019. and got rid of _ on the same side. yes, you helped a lot in 2019. and got rid of mrs - on the same side. yes, you helped a lot in 2019. and got rid of mrs may l lot in 2019. and got rid of mrs may because that's _ lot in 2019. and got rid of mrs may because that's what _ lot in 2019. and got rid of mrs may because that's what the _ lot in 2019. and got rid of mrs may because that's what the elections i because that's what the elections did. i wouldn't rule anything in but i don't know whether boris has the determination to go on. in i don't know whether boris has the determination to go on.— i don't know whether boris has the determination to go on. in terms of boris determination to go on. in terms of isoris johnson _ determination to go on. in terms of boris johnson in _ determination to go on. in terms of boris johnson in the _ determination to go on. in terms of boris johnson in the last _ determination to go on. in terms of boris johnson in the last few - determination to go on. in terms of boris johnson in the last few days. | borisjohnson in the last few days. you claim there is an establishment pot to reverse brexit. where's evidence for that?— pot to reverse brexit. where's evidence for that? that's been going on for seven — evidence for that? that's been going on for seven years. _ evidence for that? that's been going on for seven years. just _ evidence for that? that's been going on for seven years. just like - on for seven years. just like america, we've been through the

russia hoax that russia funded the campaign, that proved to be completely unfounded, repeated attempts in parliament to try to force a second referendum, now what we see, particularly now with this government was it was going to scrap thousands of eu laws and hasn't done it. �* , . �* ., it. but there is a brexit a prime minister. we _ it. but there is a brexit a prime minister. we have _ it. but there is a brexit a prime minister. we have left - it. but there is a brexit a prime minister. we have left the - it. but there is a brexit a prime - minister. we have left the european union. he was on that side of the live campaign. we have left the european union. there is the government for the majority he if they wanted, could go much further. they have chosen not to make that decision. but it is not credible, sick, to say that the actions of rishi sunak can reverse brexit? i’m rishi sunak can reverse brexit? i'm not sa in: rishi sunak can reverse brexit? i“n not saying that he can but the corporate media would love to reverse what happened with the brexit referendum. with rishi sunak

not diverging, it makes a very easy for keir starmer to sign us straight back up to the single market. and for keir starmer to sign us straight back up to the single market. and he has said repeatedly _ back up to the single market. and he has said repeatedly he _ back up to the single market. and he has said repeatedly he won't - back up to the single market. and he has said repeatedly he won't do - has said repeatedly he won't do that. but your talking about a gap in the press market. have conservatives talked about to say they're conservatives talked about to say they�* re interested? conservatives talked about to say they're interested?— they're interested? more than before. ithink— they're interested? more than before. i think there - they're interested? more than before. i think there are - they're interested? more than before. i think there are a - they're interested? more than before. i think there are a lot| they're interested? more than i before. i think there are a lot of conservative mps are now who know they won't keep their seats, running as conservatives, and if there wasn't a coming—together where the gap is, there will be more. potentially double figures would not be hard to see. you potentially double figures would not be hard to see.— be hard to see. you are suggesting that more than _ be hard to see. you are suggesting that more than ten _ be hard to see. you are suggesting that more than ten conservative i be hard to see. you are suggesting l that more than ten conservative mps might be in no mood to walk away and join some kind of outfit review? well i think it is to be more than just me. you can have one person leading a party in a european election or something like that but you're a general election, you have to have a range of talents. i don't

know. i don't know what boris johnson will do but i see a bigger gap for an insurgency today than i did before. abs, gap for an insurgency today than i did before. �* . gap for an insurgency today than i did before. �* , . , gap for an insurgency today than i did before-— did before. a bigger gap. what a fascinatin: did before. a bigger gap. what a fascinating prediction. _ did before. a bigger gap. what a fascinating prediction. we'll- did before. a bigger gap. what a fascinating prediction. we'll get | fascinating prediction. we'll get into that very second but for all use public quiz champions out there, you might have noticed already. gordon brown supposedly had a resignation honours list. in fact, he had a dissolution honours list which gave awards to members of all political parties. we like to make nerds happy on a sunday morning so that clarification is something you can entertain your friends and relatives were throughout the day. michael howard, you have been a participant and no doubt a contemporary historian of the conservative party is, lived and breathed it. nigel farage is predicting there could be some kind of new outfit along any minute. he says he has mps in double figures wanting tojoin. do says he has mps in double figures wanting to join. do you believe says he has mps in double figures wanting tojoin. do you believe in? he is making mischief which is very good at. the truth is we have an

election as i'm saying earlier, a year away and at the end of that election, we are either going to have a conservative government or a liberal government. —— labour government. the reason i am such a supporter of rishi sunak, the conservative party, the reason it's the most successful political party in the world and has lasted longer than any other is because it has always been to adapt its principles in a way to the challenges of the country of the moment. that is exactly what rishi sunak is doing. this is extraordinarily arrogant to be talking — this is extraordinarily arrogant to be talking about how the conservative party is the most successful in the world. if you look at the _ successful in the world. if you look at the state — successful in the world. if you look at the state of our country right now, _ at the state of our country right now. i— at the state of our country right now, i would take a she was saying also that— now, i would take a she was saying also that after the next election, there _ also that after the next election, there will— also that after the next election, there will be a conservative government or labour government. i think it's — government or labour government. i think it's very— government or labour government. i think it's very possible that there will actually be a hung parliament,

a coalition — will actually be a hung parliament, a coalition. and at that point, you are in— a coalition. and at that point, you are in very— a coalition. and at that point, you are in very interesting territory because — are in very interesting territory because the price of a coalition may well be _ because the price of a coalition may well be that whoever is leading the coalition— well be that whoever is leading the coalition must offer proportional representation and then we are going to break the mould and won't be in a situation _ to break the mould and won't be in a situation where people like you go on about— situation where people like you go on about how the conservative party is the _ on about how the conservative party is the most — on about how the conservative party is the most successful party in the world _ is the most successful party in the world. what do you think?- is the most successful party in the world. what do you think? well, the bit about the — world. what do you think? well, the bit about the conservative _ world. what do you think? well, the bit about the conservative party i bit about the conservative party being _ bit about the conservative party being the — bit about the conservative party being the best _ bit about the conservative party being the best part— bit about the conservative party being the best part of— bit about the conservative party being the best part of the - bit about the conservative party| being the best part of the world. cteartv _ being the best part of the world. cteartv that _ being the best part of the world. clearly that is fallacy. _ being the best part of the world. clearly that is fallacy. you - being the best part of the world. clearly that is fallacy.— clearly that is fallacy. you can look. success _ clearly that is fallacy. you can look. success were _ clearly that is fallacy. you can look. success were doing i clearly that is fallacy. you can | look. success were doing what clearly that is fallacy. you can i look. success were doing what most voters... crosstalk. on any measure you have failed on all the _ on any measure you have failed on all the key— on any measure you have failed on all the key things. look at the state — all the key things. look at the state of— all the key things. look at the state of migration. if all the key things. look at the state of migration.— all the key things. look at the state of migration. if you look at the challenges _ state of migration. if you look at the challenges of _ state of migration. if you look at the challenges of our _ state of migration. if you look at

the challenges of our country, i state of migration. if you look at l the challenges of our country, the nhs, we inherited an economy that has just nhs, we inherited an economy that hasjust come out nhs, we inherited an economy that has just come out of a financial crash. where the pandemic, we now have a war on the continent of europe. have a war on the continent of euro e. �* . . have a war on the continent of euroe. fl , have a war on the continent of euroe. v , [g . , europe. it's been 13 years and the conservative party _ europe. it's been 13 years and the conservative party looks - europe. it's been 13 years and the conservative party looks too i europe. it's been 13 years and the | conservative party looks too many people like alan like things are not looking very successful. you people like alan like things are not looking very successful.— looking very successful. you talk about the members _ looking very successful. you talk about the members perspective, looking very successful. you talk i about the members perspective, your perspective _ about the members perspective, your perspective i— about the members perspective, your perspective. i don't— about the members perspective, your perspective. i don't think _ about the members perspective, your perspective. i don't think that - about the members perspective, your perspective. i don't think that is - perspective. i don't think that is perspective _ perspective. i don't think that is perspective shared _ perspective. idon't think that is perspective shared by— perspective. i don't think that is perspective shared by the - perspective. i don't think that is i perspective shared by the majority of people — perspective shared by the majority of people in— perspective shared by the majority of people in this country _ perspective shared by the majority of people in this country right i perspective shared by the majority| of people in this country right now. at this _ of people in this country right now. at this moment. _ of people in this country right now. at this moment. one _ of people in this country right now. at this moment. one of the - of people in this country right now. at this moment. one of the things| at this moment. one of the things i'm at this moment. one of the things in taking — at this moment. one of the things in taking from _ at this moment. one of the things i'm taking from all— at this moment. one of the things i'm taking from all these - i'm taking from all these interviews is the _ i'm taking from all these interviews is the question— i'm taking from all these interviews is the question of— i'm taking from all these interviews is the question of brexit _ i'm taking from all these interviews is the question of brexit and - i'm taking from all these interviews is the question of brexit and abouti is the question of brexit and about how badm — is the question of brexit and about how bad... rishi _ is the question of brexit and about how bad... rishi sunak not - is the question of brexit and about how bad... rishi sunak not going i is the question of brexit and about. how bad... rishi sunak not going as far as _ how bad... rishi sunak not going as far as he _ how bad... rishi sunak not going as far as he could. _ how bad... rishi sunak not going as far as he could. i— how bad... rishi sunak not going as far as he could. i would _ how bad... rishi sunak not going as far as he could. i would just- how bad... rishi sunak not going as far as he could. i would just like i far as he could. i would just like someone — far as he could. i would just like someone and _ far as he could. i would just like someone and i— far as he could. i would just like someone and i was _ far as he could. i would just like someone and i was hoping that| far as he could. i would just like i someone and i was hoping that nigel would _ someone and i was hoping that nigel would be _ someone and i was hoping that nigel would be here in— someone and i was hoping that nigel would be here in real— someone and i was hoping that nigel would be here in real life _ someone and i was hoping that nigel would be here in real life are - someone and i was hoping that nigel would be here in real life are not i would be here in real life are not sneaking — would be here in real life are not sneaking in — would be here in real life are not sneaking in and _ would be here in real life are not sneaking in and the _ would be here in real life are not sneaking in and the dark- would be here in real life are not sneaking in and the dark for- would be here in real life are not sneaking in and the dark for us l would be here in real life are noti sneaking in and the dark for us to do this—

sneaking in and the dark for us to do this interview, _ sneaking in and the dark for us to do this interview, tell— sneaking in and the dark for us to do this interview, tell us - sneaking in and the dark for us to do this interview, tell us some i do this interview, tell us some positive — do this interview, tell us some positive things _ do this interview, tell us some positive things about - do this interview, tell us some positive things about brexit. . do this interview, tell us some i positive things about brexit. we must end positive things about brexit. must end our conversation positive things about brexit.“ must end our conversation about now because we have plenty more to get in the show. let's hear now from somebody else who has had an interesting couple of months. we went to see humza yousaf, the first minister of scotland, the snp leader of course too. he said after the last 211 hours that westminster is consumed with a third rate political soap opera. police investigation into the party snp party finances frustrates a members about whether they were into the mac achieve independence. we wanted to know with humza yousaf if you stick to nicola sturgeon's plan about whether it a

second referendum in all but name. given the fact we have a westminster government denying us our mandate, denying the scottish people their democratic choice, we will absolutely use the next general election to find the cause of independent. neverto election to find the cause of independent. never to be in any doubt that independence will be front and centre of our general election campaign. he front and centre of our general election campaign.— front and centre of our general election campaign. he said it was on the table but — election campaign. he said it was on the table but he _ election campaign. he said it was on the table but he pointed _ election campaign. he said it was on the table but he pointed out - election campaign. he said it was on the table but he pointed out there i the table but he pointed out there were disadvantages with that. fit were disadvantages with that. of course our preferred option remains the referendum. that legally binding referendum, the gold standard. there was an agreement between two governments diametrically opposed to theissue governments diametrically opposed to the issue of independence, every word able to express support for the proposition of independence through that legally binding referendum, we will do the general election to do that. 50 will do the general election to do that, , ., will do the general election to do that. , ., ., , will do the general election to do that. ., , , , that. so you will to be completely clear, that. so you will to be completely clear. treat _ that. so you will to be completely clear, treat the _ that. so you will to be completely clear, treat the referendum i that. so you will to be completely clear, treat the referendum as i that. so you will to be completely clear, treat the referendum as if. that. so you will to be completely| clear, treat the referendum as if it was a referendum on independence even though it will have no effect on law or enforce any uk government

into doing anything and you know very well that the conservatives wouldn't see it that way, the labour party wouldn't see that way, whether in scotland or the rest of the uk see it that way.— in scotland or the rest of the uk see it that way. again, i go back to the oint. see it that way. again, i go back to the point- the _ see it that way. again, i go back to the point. the point— see it that way. again, i go back to the point. the point is— see it that way. again, i go back to the point. the point is the - see it that way. again, i go back to the point. the point is the legally l the point. the point is the legally binding referendum. you the point. the point is the legally binding referendum.— the point. the point is the legally binding referendum. you know it's not oaian binding referendum. you know it's rrot going to _ binding referendum. you know it's not going to happen _ binding referendum. you know it's not going to happen so _ binding referendum. you know it's not going to happen so let's i binding referendum. you know it's not going to happen so let's put i not going to happen so let's put that aside for a second.- that aside for a second. there reason i mention _ that aside for a second. there reason i mention that, - that aside for a second. there reason i mention that, the i that aside for a second. there l reason i mention that, the only that aside for a second. there i reason i mention that, the only way to break that impasse you describe is by the power of the people. they can deny me all they want, the westminster government, they can deny a first minister all they want but they cannot continue to deny the people of scotland. that is why in the next electoral test, national general election taking place, a vote for the snp will be a vote for independence. but vote for the snp will be a vote for independence.— independence. but do accept snp voters who _ independence. but do accept snp voters who might _ independence. but do accept snp voters who might be _ independence. but do accept snp voters who might be just - independence. but do accept snp voters who might be just as i voters who might be just as frustrated as you are, do accept to them that a vote for independence in

them that a vote for independence in the context of a general election doesn't change anything? it will have no effect. i doesn't change anything? it will have no effect.— doesn't change anything? it will have no effect. i don't agree that westminster— have no effect. i don't agree that westminster parties _ have no effect. i don't agree that westminster parties continue, i have no effect. i don't agree that. westminster parties continue, can continue to ignore the scottish people. continue to ignore the scottish aeo . le. , continue to ignore the scottish a-eole. , a. continue to ignore the scottish neale, , ,y continue to ignore the scottish a-eole. , _ ., continue to ignore the scottish a-eole. , ,, ., ., continue to ignore the scottish n-eole. , ,, ., ., ., people. they can by law. you may not like it but they — people. they can by law. you may not like it but they can _ people. they can by law. you may not like it but they can by _ people. they can by law. you may not like it but they can by law. _ people. they can by law. you may not like it but they can by law. but - like it but they can by law. but what we will _ like it but they can by law. emit what we will seek to do is continue to break that logjam through the power of the people. let’s to break that logjam through the power of the people.— power of the people. let's talk about what _ power of the people. let's talk about what the _ power of the people. let's talk about what the people - power of the people. let's talk about what the people want. i power of the people. let's talk| about what the people want. do power of the people. let's talk i about what the people want. do you still believe there needs to be consistent majority for independence? before another referendum?— independence? before another referendum? yes. what does that translate into? _ referendum? yes. what does that translate into? for— referendum? yes what does that translate into? for some people referendum? 19:3 what does that translate into? for some people in your party it would be six months of backing for independence over 60%, but actually, support has been falling back. so how do you define a consistent majority for independence?- consistent majority for independence? consistent majority for inde rendence? .:, consistent majority for inde rendence? ,:, ,:_ consistent majority for inde rendence? ,:, _ :, independence? one poll will say that it's above 5096. _ independence? one poll will say that it's above 5096, the _ independence? one poll will say that it's above 5096, the poll— independence? one poll will say that it's above 5096, the poll the - independence? one poll will say that it's above 5096, the poll the next i it's above 50%, the poll the next able say is lower than 50%. so there or thereabouts in relation to

support for independence. i want to make sure that independence is in a consistent margin. it's pretty obvious at this point that independence is not the consistent settled well of the scottish people. so there's not majority support for independence? taste so there's not ma'ority support for independence?— so there's not ma'ority support for inde rendence? ~ . . . . independence? we have that mandate for independence. _ independence? we have that mandate for independence. you _ independence? we have that mandate for independence. you just _ independence? we have that mandate for independence. you just said i for independence. you 'ust said there m h for independence. you 'ust said there rsn-r a h for independence. you just said there isn't a consistent - for independence. you just said j there isn't a consistent majority for independence. taste there isn't a consistent ma'ority for independence.i there isn't a consistent ma'ority for independence. we are building that consistent _ for independence. we are building that consistent support _ for independence. we are building that consistent support for - that consistent support for independence and that is what i'm focused on. but independence and that is what i'm focused om— focused on. but in the last few minutes you — focused on. but in the last few minutes you said _ focused on. but in the last few minutes you said yes, - focused on. but in the last few minutes you said yes, there i focused on. but in the last few. minutes you said yes, there has focused on. but in the last few- minutes you said yes, there has to be consistent majority in order to have a referendum... in order to win a referendum. if there isn't, where is your case referendum? £31" a referendum. if there isn't, where is your case referendum? our cases because we — is your case referendum? our cases because we stood — is your case referendum? our cases because we stood in _ is your case referendum? our cases because we stood in election - is your case referendum? our cases because we stood in election after l because we stood in election after election, after election. saying we believe there should be another referendum on scottish independence. we have one election after election

on that mandate. you we have one election after election on that mandate.— on that mandate. you said recently it was realistic _ on that mandate. you said recently it was realistic that _ on that mandate. you said recently it was realistic that there _ on that mandate. you said recently it was realistic that there might i on that mandate. you said recently it was realistic that there might be | it was realistic that there might be independence in five years. is it realistic that there might be independence for more than five years? not if i have anything to do with it. why do you think people would be you, cut a recycling scheme, he had a row about tax—payers on the hook for a spans the conversation. so why would the snp when semi things are going wrong? we have negotiations, collaborative efforts with colleagues, the entire uk, the only party that has avoided a strike this winter. with reducing poverty, of

people trust us. young people from deprived backgrounds going into university education than ever before i can go on for another five to ten minutes.— to ten minutes. many people in scotland are — to ten minutes. many people in scotland are deeply _ to ten minutes. many people in scotland are deeply unhappy. l to ten minutes. many people in - scotland are deeply unhappy. whether thatis scotland are deeply unhappy. whether that is not be able to build ferries, stranding island communities, proposing a recycling scheme that businesses put red flags up scheme that businesses put red flags up about and it has now been delayed until 2025... up about and it has now been delayed until 2025- - -_ until 2025. .. let's take that de rosit until 2025. .. let's take that deposit return _ until 2025. .. let's take that deposit return scheme. i until 2025. .. let's take that | deposit return scheme. that's until 2025. .. let's take that - deposit return scheme. that'sjust deposit return scheme. that's just an example of how devolution is becoming unworkable. we have had regulations passed by the scottish parliament which included glass within our deposit return scheme, only at the 11th hour, parliament trying to sabotage that scheme. it's another demonstration on the part of —— pattern of behaviour trying to

undermine it. but -- pattern of behaviour trying to undermine it.— -- pattern of behaviour trying to undermine it. �* . , , undermine it. but many people saying it's not the undermine it. but many people saying it's rrot the uk — undermine it. but many people saying it's not the uk government _ it's not the uk government sabotaging it. tesco, one of the biggest companies in the country wanted a much morejoined up approach and the boss of the scottish retail sector said the scheme has been bedevilled by unachievable dates and in practical solutions. �* . unachievable dates and in practical solutions. �* , . , , ., unachievable dates and in practical solutions. �*, . ,, . solutions. let's address that point. we are asking _ solutions. let's address that point. we are asking the _ solutions. let's address that point. we are asking the polluters - solutions. let's address that point. we are asking the polluters to i solutions. let's address that point. j we are asking the polluters to pay. the polluter and producer to pay. not the tax—payer to pay for it. i can understand whether there would be some resistance for business. flare be some resistance for business. are ou oaain be some resistance for business. are you going to pay compensation for businesses who lost out spending billions for a scheme that won't happen? i billions for a scheme that won't harren? s�* billions for a scheme that won't ha- ren? :, �* ~' billions for a scheme that won't harren? :, �* ~ billions for a scheme that won't ha en? :, �* 1' :,, ., happen? i don't think there was a case for the _ happen? i don't think there was a case for the scottish _ happen? i don't think there was a case for the scottish government| happen? i don't think there was a i case for the scottish government to

compensate. it case for the scottish government to compensate-— compensate. it has been more than two months — compensate. it has been more than two months since _ compensate. it has been more than two months since nicola _ compensate. it has been more than two months since nicola sturgeon'sj two months since nicola sturgeon's home was searched. prosecutors have made any charges. i home was searched. prosecutors have made any charges-— home was searched. prosecutors have made any charges. i can't comment on this. i've made any charges. i can't comment on this- we got — made any charges. i can't comment on this- we got a — made any charges. i can't comment on this. i've got a really _ made any charges. i can't comment on this. i've got a really important - this. i've got a really important duty not to be seen to prejudice or interfere in a live investigation. i have no intention of doing so. but it's a political mess. you saw snp supporters who pander the payment for you... supporters who pander the payment for ou... ~ :. supporters who pander the payment for ou...~ . :, for you... what i can say to sopporters _ for you... what i can say to sopporters is _ for you... what i can say to sopporters is i _ for you. .. what i can say to supporters is i will- for you... what i can say to supporters is i will give i for you... what i can say to i supporters is i will give every ounce of effort and energy i have as leader of the party and in that they can be absolutely confident that despite having some of the most difficult weeks our party has faced in modern history, support for independence is still rock solid and a good base for us to build on. i have no doubt at all that i will be leader making sure scotland becomes an independent nation. but

politicians— an independent nation. but politicians around the uk have looked to the snp with some envy, this impressive fighting force. and now you're a party that has been falling in deep questions about the party's competence. however let this happen? i party's competence. however let this ha- ren? 1' ., party's competence. however let this ha- ren? ~ :, . . happen? i know the media might have written the snp _ happen? i know the media might have written the snp authority. _ happen? i know the media might have written the snp authority. they i happen? i know the media might have written the snp authority. they do i written the snp authority. they do that at their own peril. can written the snp authority. they do that at their own peril.— that at their own peril. can be s-oken that at their own peril. can be spoken to _ that at their own peril. can be spoken to nicola _ that at their own peril. can be spoken to nicola sturgeon i that at their own peril. can be - spoken to nicola sturgeon recently? spoken to nicole sturgeon recently? i have. spoken to nicola sturgeon recently? i have. ~, ~ spoken to nicola sturgeon recently? i have. i, ~ i, i, i, i have. ever talked about how what ou are i have. ever talked about how what you are doing? _ i have. ever talked about how what you are doing? issue _ i have. ever talked about how what you are doing? issue given - i have. ever talked about how what you are doing? issue given you - i have. ever talked about how what i you are doing? issue given you tips? we have caught up on a couple of occasions and i've been asking about her welfare, she mentioned the difficult and traumatic last few weeks. i5 difficult and traumatic last few weeks. , , difficult and traumatic last few weers-_ she's - difficult and traumatic last few weeks._ she's in - difficult and traumatic last few weeks._ she's in a l difficult and traumatic last few - weeks._ she's in a good weeks. is she 0k? she's in a good lace and weeks. is she 0k? she's in a good place and doing — weeks. is she 0k? she's in a good place and doing well— weeks. is she 0k? she's in a good place and doing well for— weeks. is she 0k? she's in a good place and doing well for sure. - weeks. is she 0k? she's in a good place and doing well for sure. but| place and doing well for sure. but why would i not want get advice from

arguably one of the best politicians, most impressive politicians, most impressive politicians europe has seen over the last couple of decades? if politicians europe has seen over the last couple of decades?— last couple of decades? if keir starmer find _ last couple of decades? if keir starmer find you _ last couple of decades? if keir starmer find you the - last couple of decades? if keir starmer find you the morning | last couple of decades? if keir- starmer find you the morning after the election and hadn't had an overall majority but was the biggest party, if he says, i need help, will you do a deal may? what would you say. i’d you do a deal may? what would you sa . �* , �* ., you do a deal may? what would you sa.�* �* ._, ., you do a deal may? what would you sa.�* my�* m,m, m, you do a deal may? what would you say. i'd say i'd do a deal with you, because i — say. i'd say i'd do a deal with you, because i want _ say. i'd say i'd do a deal with you, because i want to _ say. i'd say i'd do a deal with you, because i want to see _ say. i'd say i'd do a deal with you, because i want to see the - say. i'd say i'd do a deal with you, because i want to see the end - say. i'd say i'd do a deal with you, because i want to see the end of i say. i'd say i'd do a deal with you, i because i want to see the end of the tories. to see the back of the tories. to see the back of the tories. ~ . tories. to see the back of the tories. ~ m, m, , m , tories. what would the price be? the rice would tories. what would the price be? the price would be _ tories. what would the price be? the price would be an _ tories. what would the price be? the price would be an independent - price would be an independent referendum. 50 price would be an independent referendum.— referendum. so that'll be a deal-breaker? _ referendum. so that'll be a deal-breaker? you - referendum. so that'll be a | deal-breaker? you wouldn't referendum. so that'll be a - deal-breaker? you wouldn't support deal—breaker? you wouldn't support labour in a hung parliament unless keir starmer were to give you independence referendum? i keir starmer were to give you independence referendum? i don't thinkthat's — independence referendum? i don't think that's a _ independence referendum? i don't think that's a big _ independence referendum? i don't think that's a big surprise - independence referendum? i don't think that's a big surprise at - independence referendum? i don't think that's a big surprise at all, i think that's a big surprise at all, if we were to collaborate with libra, having —— labour, having that

referendum... i'm not going to argue with you for a ballot has been cast or date has been announced but. 50 labour or date has been announced but. so labour doesn't have to give you anything at all if you won't ever pf°p up anything at all if you won't ever prop up the tories? so you say you would prop up the labour party but you would never offer to prop up the tories. figs you would never offer to prop up the tories. �* , m, m, mm , tories. as someone who has been in government — tories. as someone who has been in government for _ tories. as someone who has been in government for a _ tories. as someone who has been in government for a long _ tories. as someone who has been in government for a long time, - tories. as someone who has been in government for a long time, what i tories. as someone who has been in | government for a long time, what you want is a government, especially if you're coming in fresh as a new government, you want stability and getting your budget through, your legislative agenda through. you don't want to be frustrated at every corner and turn. that's why it's worth it's weight in gold. we would never prop up our conservative government ever. you can underline that to put that in bold. but if labour do not want to co—operate

with us, it would make life very difficult for them.— with us, it would make life very difficult for them. what do you mean b that? difficult for them. what do you mean by that? just — difficult for them. what do you mean by that? just the _ difficult for them. what do you mean by that? just the processes - difficult for them. what do you mean by that? just the processes and - by that? just the processes and bud . ets by that? just the processes and budgets and — by that? just the processes and budgets and so _ by that? just the processes and budgets and so on. _ by that? just the processes and budgets and so on. would - by that? just the processes and budgets and so on. would you | budgets and so on. would you consider the _ budgets and so on. would you consider the idea _ budgets and so on. would you consider the idea of _ budgets and so on. would you consider the idea of an - budgets and so on. would you . consider the idea of an alliance... not in an election but why have an alliance when we are by far the largest independence vehicle, party in the country for some distance? are your kids proud or embarrassed that their dad has a big fancy new job? that their dad has a big fancy new 'ob? �* m, ~ y m, , that their dad has a big fancy new 'ob? ~y m, , that their dad has a big fancy new 'ob?, 'y m, job? both. my daughter is so proud to my 1�*t-year-old _ job? both. my daughter is so proud to my 14-year-old perhaps - job? both. my daughter is so proud to my 14-year-old perhaps is - job? both. my daughter is so proud to my 14-year-old perhaps is a - to my 14—year—old perhaps is a little more embarrassed at times. but they are so supportive and it's a tricky adjustment. share but they are so supportive and it's a tricky adjustment.— a tricky ad'ustment. are they slidin: a tricky adjustment. are they sliding down _ a tricky adjustment. are they sliding down the _ a tricky adjustment. are they sliding down the banister- a tricky adjustment. are they sliding down the banister is l a tricky adjustment. are they | sliding down the banister is in a tricky adjustment. are they - sliding down the banister is in the house? mr; sliding down the banister is in the house? ~y m, y m, m, sliding down the banister is in the house? y m, m, , house? my four-year-old stuck her head through _ house? my four-year-old stuck her head through the _ house? my four-year-old stuck her head through the banister- house? my four-year-old stuck her head through the banister on - house? my four-year-old stuck her head through the banister on her. head through the banister on her first day so they had to make some

adaptations to make its childproof. and my iii—year—old, i'm going to embarrass her now, she has slammed one or two doors in the house in the first few weeks. in one or two doors in the house in the first few weeks._ first few weeks. in the beautiful geora ian first few weeks. in the beautiful georgian house? _ first few weeks. in the beautiful georgian house? thank- first few weeks. in the beautiful georgian house? thank you - first few weeks. in the beautiful georgian house? thank you so l first few weeks. in the beautiful - georgian house? thank you so much for giving us your time today. it is good having you on the show. and i hope his teenage daughter isn't too modified about him confessing what has been going on. alan, i know you have been on supporter of independence. do you think the party a stag or deeper confident that you know what the planners? i confident that you know what the lanners? m, y confident that you know what the lanners? m, m y , planners? i do feelthe party is stuck, i planners? i do feelthe party is stuck. i feel— planners? i do feelthe party is stuck, i feel the _ planners? i do feelthe party is stuck, i feel the scottish - stuck, i feel the scottish parliament— stuck, i feel the scottish parliament is— stuck, i feel the scottish parliament is stuck. - stuck, i feel the scottish parliament is stuck. i. stuck, i feel the scottish i parliament is stuck. i would stuck, i feel the scottish - parliament is stuck. i would like to add to— parliament is stuck. i would like to add to what— parliament is stuck. i would like to add to what humza _ parliament is stuck. i would like to add to what humza yousaf - parliament is stuck. i would like to add to what humza yousaf said - parliament is stuck. i would like to i add to what humza yousaf said about the number— add to what humza yousaf said about the number of— add to what humza yousaf said about the number of laws _ add to what humza yousaf said about the number of laws that _ add to what humza yousaf said about the number of laws that are - add to what humza yousaf said about the number of laws that are being - the number of laws that are being passed _ the number of laws that are being passed by— the number of laws that are being passed by a — the number of laws that are being passed by a democratically - the number of laws that are beingl passed by a democratically elected government— passed by a democratically elected government unanimously- passed by a democratically elected government unanimously in - passed by a democratically elected government unanimously in the i government unanimously in the scottish— government unanimously in the scottish parliament _ government unanimously in the scottish parliament are - government unanimously in the scottish parliament are being i government unanimously in the - scottish parliament are being struck down _ scottish parliament are being struck down by— scottish parliament are being struck down by westminster. _ scottish parliament are being struck down by westminster. obviously, i scottish parliament are being struck. down by westminster. obviously, the trans-bill— down by westminster. obviously, the trans—bill before _ down by westminster. obviously, the

trans—bill before that, _ down by westminster. obviously, the trans—bill before that, the _ down by westminster. obviously, the trans—bill before that, the drs, - down by westminster. obviously, the trans—bill before that, the drs, so i trans—bill before that, the drs, so many— trans—bill before that, the drs, so many in _ trans—bill before that, the drs, so many in these _ trans—bill before that, the drs, so many in these brexit _ trans—bill before that, the drs, so many in these brexit power- trans—bill before that, the drs, so many in these brexit power grabs. | trans—bill before that, the drs, so i many in these brexit power grabs. if they are _ many in these brexit power grabs. if they are passed _ many in these brexit power grabs. if they are passed by— many in these brexit power grabs. if they are passed by westminster - they are passed by westminster unanimously, _ they are passed by westminster unanimously, another— they are passed by westminster unanimously, another struck - they are passed by westminster. unanimously, another struck down they are passed by westminster - unanimously, another struck down in the house _ unanimously, another struck down in the house of— unanimously, another struck down in the house of lords. _ unanimously, another struck down in the house of lords. do— unanimously, another struck down in the house of lords.— the house of lords. do you think he has a [an the house of lords. do you think he has a plan you _ the house of lords. do you think he has a plan you find _ the house of lords. do you think he has a plan you find credible - the house of lords. do you think he has a plan you find credible to - the house of lords. do you think he has a plan you find credible to get l has a plan you find credible to get independence? i has a plan you find credible to get independence?— has a plan you find credible to get independence? i do. they are going to a lot of trouble _ independence? i do. they are going to a lot of trouble and _ independence? i do. they are going to a lot of trouble and readjustment i’ilht to a lot of trouble and readjustment right now— to a lot of trouble and read'ustment riaht no ., �* , to a lot of trouble and read'ustment riaht no m, �*, m, to a lot of trouble and read'ustment riuhtno m, �*, m, m, to a lot of trouble and read'ustment riuhtno m, m, , right now that's one way of putting it. it is traumatic _ right now that's one way of putting it. it is traumatic for _ right now that's one way of putting it. it is traumatic for everybody, i it. it is traumatic for everybody, especially _ it. it is traumatic for everybody, especially the — it. it is traumatic for everybody, especially the people _ it. it is traumatic for everybody, especially the people of - it. it is traumatic for everybody, i especially the people of scotland. but the _ especially the people of scotland. but the plan — especially the people of scotland. but the plan for _ especially the people of scotland. but the plan for independence - especially the people of scotland. but the plan for independence is i but the plan for independence is based _ but the plan for independence is based on — but the plan for independence is based on westminster— but the plan for independence is i based on westminster government but the plan for independence is - based on westminster government of respecting _ based on westminster government of respecting the — based on westminster government of respecting the will— based on westminster government of respecting the will of— based on westminster government of respecting the will of the _ based on westminster government of respecting the will of the scottish - respecting the will of the scottish people. _ respecting the will of the scottish people. not— respecting the will of the scottish people. notjust— respecting the will of the scottish people, not just the _ respecting the will of the scottish people, not just the scottish - respecting the will of the scottish . people, notjust the scottish people but the _ people, notjust the scottish people but the scottish _ people, notjust the scottish people but the scottish devolved _ but the scottish devolved parliament _ but the scottish devolved parliament. the - but the scottish devolved parliament. the other. but the scottish devolved - parliament. the other polymers but the scottish devolved _ parliament. the other polymers are not being _ parliament. the other polymers are not being respected _ parliament. the other polymers are not being respected and _ parliament. the other polymers are not being respected and are - parliament. the other polymers are not being respected and are being i not being respected and are being derided _ not being respected and are being derided by— not being respected and are being derided by westminster. - not being respected and are being derided by westminster. this - not being respected and are being derided by westminster.— not being respected and are being derided by westminster. this is sure to be a big talking _ derided by westminster. this is sure to be a big talking point— derided by westminster. this is sure to be a big talking point as _ derided by westminster. this is sure to be a big talking point as we - derided by westminster. this is sure to be a big talking point as we get i to be a big talking point as we get closer to the election. lest great show. but first i want to show a clip.

it's one just about every award going. how did you get involved in this and what is it about? is going. how did you get involved in this and what is it about?- this and what is it about? is about that character there, _ this and what is it about? is about that character there, usher - this and what is it about? is about that character there, usher who i this and what is it about? is aboutj that character there, usher who is an usher— that character there, usher who is an usher at— that character there, usher who is an usher at the _ that character there, usher who is an usher at the lying _ that character there, usher who is an usher at the lying king - that character there, usher who is an usher at the lying king musical| an usher at the lying king musical about— an usher at the lying king musical about a _ an usher at the lying king musical about a man _ an usher at the lying king musical about a man called _ an usher at the lying king musical about a man called usher- an usher at the lying king musical about a man called usher who - an usher at the lying king musicall about a man called usher who was an usher at the lying king musical- about a man called usher who was an usher~ _ about a man called usher who was an usher~ so— about a man called usher who was an usher~ so you — about a man called usher who was an usher~ so you get _ about a man called usher who was an usher. so you get that. _ about a man called usher who was an usher. so you get that. the _ about a man called usher who was an usher. so you get that. the guy- about a man called usher who was an usher. so you get that. the guy whol usher. so you get that. the guy who originally— usher. so you get that. the guy who originally played _ usher. so you get that. the guy who originally played that _ usher. so you get that. the guy who originally played that role _ usher. so you get that. the guy who originally played that role in - originally played that role in broadway— originally played that role in broadway was _ originally played that role in broadway was a _ originally played that role in broadway was a performer i originally played that role ini broadway was a performer at originally played that role in - broadway was a performer at my cabaret — broadway was a performer at my cabaret club, _ broadway was a performer at my cabaret club, in _ broadway was a performer at my cabaret club, in new— broadway was a performer at my cabaret club, in new york. - broadway was a performer at my cabaret club, in new york. he i broadway was a performer at my. cabaret club, in new york. he was the original— cabaret club, in new york. he was the original usher— cabaret club, in new york. he was the original usher and _ cabaret club, in new york. he was the original usher and one - cabaret club, in new york. he was the original usher and one day- cabaret club, in new york. he was the original usher and one day i. the original usher and one day i went— the original usher and one day i went to — the original usher and one day i went to him _ the original usher and one day i went to him and _ the original usher and one day i went to him and asked - the original usher and one day i went to him and asked if- the original usher and one day i went to him and asked if he - the original usher and one day i| went to him and asked if he was the original usher and one day i. went to him and asked if he was on tonight— went to him and asked if he was on tonight and — went to him and asked if he was on tonight and they _ went to him and asked if he was on tonight and they said _ went to him and asked if he was on tonight and they said he's - went to him and asked if he was on tonight and they said he's got - went to him and asked if he was on tonight and they said he's got a - went to him and asked if he was on tonight and they said he's got a job in some _ tonight and they said he's got a job in some musical— tonight and they said he's got a job in some musical and _ tonight and they said he's got a job in some musical and won't - tonight and they said he's got a job in some musical and won't be - tonight and they said he's got a job in some musical and won't be here| in some musical and won't be here for a _ in some musical and won't be here for a few— in some musical and won't be here for a few weeks— in some musical and won't be here for a few weeks and _ in some musical and won't be here for a few weeks and i— in some musical and won't be here for a few weeks and i was - in some musical and won't be here| for a few weeks and i was annoyed. so went—

for a few weeks and i was annoyed. so went to — for a few weeks and i was annoyed. so went to see _ for a few weeks and i was annoyed. so went to see it _ for a few weeks and i was annoyed. so went to see it to _ for a few weeks and i was annoyed. so went to see it to support - for a few weeks and i was annoyed. so went to see it to support him . for a few weeks and i was annoyed. | so went to see it to support him and i so went to see it to support him and l was _ so went to see it to support him and l was blown — so went to see it to support him and l was blown away— so went to see it to support him and i was blown away by _ so went to see it to support him and i was blown away by it. _ so went to see it to support him and i was blown away by it. it's - i was blown away by it. it's absolutely _ i was blown away by it. it's absolutely brilliant, - i was blown away by it. it's absolutely brilliant, not. i was blown away by it. it'sl absolutely brilliant, notjust i was blown away by it. it's - absolutely brilliant, notjust me saying _ absolutely brilliant, notjust me saying that _ absolutely brilliant, notjust me saying that it's_ absolutely brilliant, notjust me saying that. it's a _ absolutely brilliant, notjust me saying that. it's a brilliant, - saying that. it's a brilliant, entertaining, _ saying that. it's a brilliant, entertaining, hilarious, - saying that. it's a brilliant, entertaining, hilarious, all| saying that. it's a brilliant, - entertaining, hilarious, allthose entertaining, hilarious, all those things— entertaining, hilarious, allthose things but— entertaining, hilarious, allthose things but also _ entertaining, hilarious, allthose things but also a _ entertaining, hilarious, allthose things but also a show— entertaining, hilarious, allthose things but also a show about. entertaining, hilarious, allthose things but also a show about the things— things but also a show about the things i— things but also a show about the things i didn't _ things but also a show about the things i didn't really— things but also a show about the things i didn't really understandl things i didn't really understand and was — things i didn't really understand and was so _ things i didn't really understand and was so delighted _ things i didn't really understand and was so delighted to - things i didn't really understand and was so delighted to find - things i didn't really understandj and was so delighted to find out about, _ and was so delighted to find out about, about _ and was so delighted to find out about, about blackness- and was so delighted to find out about, about blackness and - and was so delighted to find out - about, about blackness and queerness and the _ about, about blackness and queerness and the whole — about, about blackness and queerness and the whole black— about, about blackness and queerness and the whole black experience. - about, about blackness and queerness and the whole black experience. it's i and the whole black experience. it's genius _ and the whole black experience. it's uenius. ~ ., y m, and the whole black experience. it's uenius. ~ m, ., ., genius. what if you learnt about this? you're _ genius. what if you learnt about this? you're a _ genius. what if you learnt about this? you're a white _ genius. what if you learnt about this? you're a white man. - genius. what if you learnt about| this? you're a white man. that's genius. what if you learnt about - this? you're a white man. that's one ofthe this? you're a white man. that's one of the issues — this? you're a white man. that's one of the issues actually, _ this? you're a white man. that's one of the issues actually, but _ this? you're a white man. that's one of the issues actually, but i - this? you're a white man. that's one of the issues actually, but i came - of the issues actually, but i came on board — of the issues actually, but i came on board as — of the issues actually, but i came on board as an— of the issues actually, but i came on board as an investor— of the issues actually, but i came on board as an investor initially i on board as an investor initially and then— on board as an investor initially and then a _ on board as an investor initially and then a producer— on board as an investor initially and then a producer because i. on board as an investor initially i and then a producer because i feel that sadly. — and then a producer because i feel that sadly. one _ and then a producer because i feel that sadly, one of— and then a producer because i feel that sadly, one of the _ and then a producer because i feel that sadly, one of the things - and then a producer because i feel that sadly, one of the things on i and then a producer because i feell that sadly, one of the things on the back story— that sadly, one of the things on the back story with _ that sadly, one of the things on the back story with black _ that sadly, one of the things on the back story with black performers, i back story with black performers, the rest _ back story with black performers, the rest of — back story with black performers, the rest of us _ back story with black performers, the rest of us don't _ back story with black performers, the rest of us don't think- back story with black performers, the rest of us don't think that - back story with black performers, the rest of us don't think that is i the rest of us don't think that is for us — the rest of us don't think that is for us i— the rest of us don't think that is for us i am _ the rest of us don't think that is for us. i am here _ the rest of us don't think that is for us. i am here to— the rest of us don't think that is for us. i am here to say- the rest of us don't think that is for us. i am here to say that - the rest of us don't think that is i for us. i am here to say that more white _ for us. i am here to say that more white people _ for us. i am here to say that more white people need _ for us. i am here to say that more white people need to _ for us. i am here to say that more white people need to go - for us. i am here to say that more white people need to go to - for us. i am here to say that more white people need to go to thosel white people need to go to those shows— white people need to go to those shows and — white people need to go to those shows and learn _ white people need to go to those shows and learn and _ white people need to go to those shows and learn and support - white people need to go to those shows and learn and support and j shows and learn and support and advocate — shows and learn and support and advocate and _ shows and learn and support and advocate and be _ shows and learn and support and advocate and be an _ shows and learn and support and advocate and be an ally. - shows and learn and support and advocate and be an ally. but - shows and learn and support and advocate and be an ally. but forl shows and learn and support and - advocate and be an ally. but for me, i hope _ advocate and be an ally. but for me, i hope my— advocate and be an ally. but for me, i hope my involvement— advocate and be an ally. but for me, i hope my involvement and - advocate and be an ally. but for me, i hope my involvement and it - advocate and be an ally. but for me, i hope my involvement and it will. i hope my involvement and it will

broaden— i hope my involvement and it will broaden the _ i hope my involvement and it will broaden the demographic. - i hope my involvement and it will broaden the demographic. it- i hope my involvement and it will broaden the demographic. it sounds like it has changed _ broaden the demographic. it sounds like it has changed too. _ broaden the demographic. it sounds like it has changed too. it _ broaden the demographic. it sounds like it has changed too. it has - broaden the demographic. it sounds like it has changed too. it has and i like it has changed too. it has and i've learned _ like it has changed too. it has and i've learned a _ like it has changed too. it has and i've learned a lot _ like it has changed too. it has and i've learned a lot about _ like it has changed too. it has and i've learned a lot about the - i've learned a lot about the perception— i've learned a lot about the perception of— i've learned a lot about the perception of black - i've learned a lot about the perception of black peoplel i've learned a lot about the i perception of black people in i've learned a lot about the - perception of black people in our culture _ perception of black people in our culture and — perception of black people in our culture and there _ perception of black people in our culture and there are _ perception of black people in our culture and there are some - perception of black people in our. culture and there are some hilarious bits where _ culture and there are some hilarious bits where people _ culture and there are some hilarious bits where people are _ culture and there are some hilarious bits where people are roasted - culture and there are some hilarious bits where people are roasted aboutj bits where people are roasted about stereotypes — bits where people are roasted about stereotypes promoted _ bits where people are roasted about stereotypes promoted within - bits where people are roasted about stereotypes promoted within the - stereotypes promoted within the black— stereotypes promoted within the black community. _ stereotypes promoted within the black community. things - stereotypes promoted within the black community. things like - stereotypes promoted within the i black community. things like that, i had no _ black community. things like that, i had no idea — black community. things like that, i had no idea about _ black community. things like that, i had no idea about and _ black community. things like that, i had no idea about and it's— black community. things like that, i had no idea about and it's a - had no idea about and it's a brilliant _ had no idea about and it's a brilliant piece _ had no idea about and it's a brilliant piece of— had no idea about and it's a brilliant piece of work - had no idea about and it's a brilliant piece of work and i had no idea about and it's a i brilliant piece of work and the writer— brilliant piece of work and the writer is— brilliant piece of work and the writer is hilarious _ brilliant piece of work and the writer is hilarious and - brilliant piece of work and the writer is hilarious and his - writer is hilarious and his lnstagram _ writer is hilarious and his instagram handle - writer is hilarious and his instagram handle is- writer is hilarious and his instagram handle is the i writer is hilarious and his - instagram handle is the living michael— instagram handle is the living michaeljackson. _ instagram handle is the living michaeljackson. it's - instagram handle is the living michaeljackson. it's been - instagram handle is the living michaeljackson. it's been so| michaeljackson. it's been so personal— michaeljackson. it's been so personal and _ michaeljackson. it's been so personal and idiosyncratic. michaeljackson. it's been sol personal and idiosyncratic but michaeljackson. it's been so - personal and idiosyncratic but it's massive — personal and idiosyncratic but it's massive and _ personal and idiosyncratic but it's massive and huge _ personal and idiosyncratic but it's massive and huge and _ personal and idiosyncratic but it's massive and huge and talks - personal and idiosyncratic but it's| massive and huge and talks about personal and idiosyncratic but it's - massive and huge and talks about the political— massive and huge and talks about the political landscape. _ massive and huge and talks about the political landscape. part _ massive and huge and talks about the political landscape.— political landscape. part of that olitical political landscape. part of that political landscape _ political landscape. part of that political landscape is _ political landscape. part of that political landscape is people i political landscape is people getting a bit of a roasting every now and then. as a former leader of the tory party, i want to give a final word to you. if you had bet on it, would you see borisjohnson back in parliament in our lifetimes? i in parliament in our lifetimes? i

think in parliament in our lifetimes? i think it will be very difficult. thank you very much. thank you all forjoining us after a couple of days of huge political news. the title of alan's show, a strange look, might be exactly what tories are stuck in with borisjohnson leaving parliament. is it really the end? this week's drama might not make a blind bit of difference for who you will vote for next year but maybe you feel that if he has some great hero and another tragedy that perhaps rapid different type of conservative about arguments about him. or maybe if you deplored his conduct, his effect on the country, it's a tragedy of another sort. it does seem far—fetched right now but only a fool would ever say never when it comes to mrjohnson. maybe

it is hard to be a populist if the polls suggest you might not be very popular any more. thank you so much for being with us and it's a way such a pleasure to have your company. head to iplayerfor more if you want to watch anything again but if not, i look forward to seeing you next week in the same time and place. who knows what might have happened by then? goodbye. live from london, this is bbc news. the fallout from boris johnson's resignation intensifies as a former cabinet minster says he should not be blocked from standing as an mp again.

a senior cabinet minister says it is