tv BBC News BBC News June 11, 2023 5:00pm-5:30pm BST
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a senior british cabinet minister says it time to move on. both in the conservative party and outside, don't miss the drama of it all. what we have got now is rishi sunak and downing street is getting on with the job. ukraine says its troops have recaptured a village from the russians in the donetsk region — the first liberated settlement to be claimed since launching its counter— offensive. and — in the last hour manchester city team touched down at manchester airport after winning their first european champions league title. hello, i'm nancy kacungira. we start in scotland where the former first minister
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nicola sturgeon has been arrested in connection with an ongoing investigation into the scottish national party's finances. a statement said nicola sturgeon, who resigned in march after nine years in office, was in custody and being questioned. her arrest comes two months after her husband and former party chief executive, peter murrell, was arrested and released without charge pending further investigations. their home was searched at the time. two weeks later the former party treasurer, colin beattie was also questioned and released without charge. live now to our scotland correspondent, lorna gordon. this investigation has been going on sometime quietly but now a very high—profile arrest. an high-profile arrest. an investigation - high—profile arrest. in investigation that has been running for the past two years, mostly in the background but today the most high—profile arrest and what the police have titled operation branch form. mid afternoon came the news that nicola sturgeon, the former
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first minister of scotland the longest—serving first minister had been arrested by police. this was by arrangement, we are told from a spokesperson from nicola sturgeon that she arranged with police scotland attended an interview where she was arrested and questioned in relation to this ongoing investigation into the funding and finances of the snp. so the news broke mid afternoon but we do not know exactly when the arrest took place. but when that arrest happened, in effect a clock starts ticking and the police have 12 hours from that point in which two either charge a person or release them pending further in, without charge pending further in, without charge pending further in, without charge pending further inquiries. we are limited in what we can say because of contempt of court laws here in scotland which limit what you can say see don't prejudice any
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potential further trial but it is important to save no one has been charged with any alleged offences at this point. but there have been three high—profile arrests from the very top of the snp and the rest of the former first minister, nicola sturgeon, a very high—profile politician, and accomplished operator politically. it is the most high—profile arrest thus far in this investigation. figs high-profile arrest thus far in this investigation.— investigation. as you say, at this oint not investigation. as you say, at this point not much _ investigation. as you say, at this point not much can _ investigation. as you say, at this point not much can be _ investigation. as you say, at this point not much can be said - investigation. as you say, at this| point not much can be said about investigation. as you say, at this - point not much can be said about the case in the investigation itself. but undoubtably this has implications for the snp. it but undoubtably this has implications for the snp. it really does what we _ implications for the snp. it really does what we do _ implications for the snp. it really does what we do know _ implications for the snp. it really does what we do know about - implications for the snp. it really does what we do know about the | does what we do know about the investigation of course is that it is into funding that was raised by activists for a second referendum campaign it was meant to be ring fencedit campaign it was meant to be ring fenced it was around £600,000 intonation by activists and police had complaints raised about this
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money. with help of other agencies including the national crime agencies that is what we know they are in investigating. they are keen to exercise the chief constable of police scotland a few weeks ago said that this is completely independent of politics, this investigation process must and will be followed at all within whatever timescales are necessary and he said he emphasised that the timescales were set by investigative considerations not political ones. that set the timing of this while the arrest perhaps not questioning entirely unsurprising there were a lot of rumours and speculation in political circles for the past few weeks and months because of course nicola sturgeon was the third cigna tree of the snp accountants the other two individuals had been arrested in terms of an investigation —— signatory. but on a sunday afternoon i think it has taken on everyone by
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a surprise. but it does point to difficulties to the snp, humza yousaf the new leader of the snp the relatively new first minister has been trying to get out from under the shadow of nicola sturgeon. he is been trying to reset his government policies. he shelved and delayed a couple of policies that were quite high—profile ones under nicola sturgeon governing and her time as first minister. he has the lead the deposit return scheme, the that gender recognition for four build up in court so he has been struggling politically and today did a major interview on the bbc on if deal where he's trying to relaunch himself heat there has been this arrest of his predecessor. so not a pleasant time in terms of snp politicians and a difficult times in terms of the politics and how they move on from this long—running investigation that the police say is going to take as long as it takes.
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thank you very much, our correspondentjoining us from class let's now also i'm joined now by michael simmons, host of spectator of scotland podcast. how will you and i am sure you will do a podcast on this but how will you be presenting this? i do a podcast on this but how will you be presenting this?- you be presenting this? i think reall the you be presenting this? i think really the story _ you be presenting this? i think really the story here _ you be presenting this? i think really the story here because l you be presenting this? i think| really the story here because of you be presenting this? i think- really the story here because of the fact that we can not go into speculation on the case because of the content of court laws is about how this is going to affect the snp position in the polls and the first minister, humza yousaf ability to govern we have already seen in the initial arrest the snp is pulling in westminster and also holyrood elections are starting to dip in labour is picking up and it is possible that this could accelerate things. we will see that playing out in real life in a potential by election in margate which ferrier�*s see if she is to lose her position
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and we will really see if this is something that labour will be able to capitalise on.— to capitalise on. obviously this is an ongoing _ to capitalise on. obviously this is an ongoing investigation - to capitalise on. obviously this is an ongoing investigation no - to capitalise on. obviously this is an ongoing investigation no one. to capitalise on. obviously this is i an ongoing investigation no one has been charged or convicted. but what you say suggests that nevertheless there is a political impact. there are two things — there is a political impact. there are two things impacting - there is a political impact. there are two things impacting the - there is a political impact. ti” are two things impacting the pulling at the moment. there is a lot of the snp spend and messaging is that we are different from westminster. humza yousafjust are different from westminster. humza yousaf just a are different from westminster. humza yousafjust a day or two ago tweeted about the boris johnson humza yousafjust a day or two ago tweeted about the borisjohnson back in sick nation, that scotland needed to escape the sort of stupid it so popular in westminster —— resignation. things like this make it more difficult if not impossible for the snp to present that image. so dishonestly damaging for them from that respect. the other factor that has hit them in polls is of course the any sort of a referendum now looks less and less likely and i think there is a lot of snp voters whose natural home is really with
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labourjust independence but the do not think independence is likely they may return to labour and so these two—pronged effect is starting to hit the snp impulse. these two-pronged effect is starting to hit the snp impulse.— to hit the snp impulse. interesting what ou to hit the snp impulse. interesting what you say _ to hit the snp impulse. interesting what you say that _ to hit the snp impulse. interesting what you say that this _ to hit the snp impulse. interesting what you say that this could - to hit the snp impulse. interesting what you say that this could have l to hit the snp impulse. interesting | what you say that this could have on the impact of the independence question. nicola sturgeon was a prominent figure in that conversation so how will this affect that project regarding independence? i think there is always a sure fire base of independence i was a 30—35% diehards who will always be there regardless on what happens but it is that middle ground that may be thought the snp was a better governing party, a better way to governing party, a better way to govern that that kind of soft vote is not going to be harderfor them to get. i think it it also makes things more difficult for humza yousaf the fact that he was seen as nicola sturgeon's anointed successor
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he was certainly the continuity candidate. so anything that comes out about the regime that goes before, humza yousaf will be sort of associated with so i think it is bad news for him on a personal political level as well as just the general damage to that kind of soft, middle boat that both the unionist site in the nationalist side both constantly vying for. the the nationalist side both constantly in: for. ' . , ., ., vying for. the difficulty for humza yousaf, vying for. the difficulty for humza yousaf. book _ vying for. the difficulty for humza yousaf, book current _ vying for. the difficulty for humza yousaf, book current first - vying for. the difficulty for humza | yousaf, book current first minister is that this is all out of his hands there is nothing that he can do to move this case along. i there is nothing that he can do to move this case along.— there is nothing that he can do to move this case along. i suspect that there will be — move this case along. i suspect that there will be cause _ move this case along. i suspect that there will be cause for _ move this case along. i suspect that there will be cause for him - move this case along. i suspect that there will be cause for him to - move this case along. i suspect that there will be cause for him to do - there will be cause for him to do and i believe one westminster has already called for this is to suspend nicola sturgeon from the party. i think when alex image was initially investigated by police a few years ago he withdrew from the party —— alex salmon. so i think there will be cause for him to do that but i think it is a rock and a
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hard place because lots of people say that she is the most successful leader and the other side saying the their needs be due process so why not do it in this case so beyond that there is not really much you will be able to do.— will be able to do. surely a conundrum _ will be able to do. surely a conundrum for _ will be able to do. surely a conundrum for him - will be able to do. surely a conundrum for him there. | will be able to do. surely a - conundrum for him there. thank you very much forjoining us. i'm joined now by political commentator, andy collier — he spent nearly 30 years working for, with and observing and writing about the snp. he's also a former speech writer for nicola sturgeon. you really have in some ways a front seat into all of this. can we start by getting your reaction to the news that nicola sturgeon was arrested today? i that nicola sturgeon was arrested toda ? ~ ., ~ , ~ , today? i think frankly i think it is robabl today? i think frankly i think it is probably the _ today? i think frankly i think it is probably the least _ today? i think frankly i think it is probably the least surprising - today? i think frankly i think it is l probably the least surprising event in scott's political history i think there has been a terminus amount of speculation that nicola sturgeon was going to be questioned by police. i
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think perhaps it is little surprising that it has taken as long as it has. i heard a couple of earlier commentators saying that it was perhaps unusual as well that it has happened on sunday. we do not know the reason for that and it would be perhaps dangerous to speculate given the very strong contempt of court laws. but she has now been arrested and being questioned and i mean there is no doubt this is something that the snp would not have chosen to see happen. but it has happened and it is something we will have to deal with and cope with as time goes on. you know the snp _ and cope with as time goes on. you know the snp and have spent time writing and observing them, how are they likely to respond to this conundrum? i they likely to respond to this conundrum?— they likely to respond to this conundrum? ~ , conundrum? i think they will let events take _ conundrum? i think they will let events take their _ conundrum? i think they will let events take their course, - conundrum? i think they will let events take their course, due i events take their course, due process, they have to do that. they cannot influence them and will not seem to and i think humza yousaf in particular will concentrate on what is a very difficultjob at the moment. being scottish first minister. there is a difficult by
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election potentially coming up. the seat that looks as which looks like it will turn into a by election which will be a problem in they will have to work very hard to hang onto it. we'll have to put a lot of effort into that if it comes down to that and i think it well. by the same token things are not as dreadful as for the snp as things are making it seem. certainly on the question of independence polls show that support is holding up very well and i think the support fairly recently showed that it is still sitting pretty much at that 50—50 level to its act consistently almost since the referendum in 2014. so there is a beast to be built on there. humza yousaf is still seeking to establish himself as first minister he has had a difficult first few weeks but he is now starting to bend in and now you will see more terms and policy, building
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trust in the party and he will hope in the people around him will hope more in terms of driving the independence message board. there was a suggestion _ independence message board. there was a suggestion for— independence message board. there was a suggestion for my _ independence message board. there was a suggestion for my previous guest that this could get to a place where humza yousaf might be called upon to decide on whether to suspend nicola sturgeon why this investigation goes on. do you think it is likely to get to that? i investigation goes on. do you think it is likely to get to that?— it is likely to get to that? i don't m self it is likely to get to that? i don't myself think— it is likely to get to that? i don't myself think it _ it is likely to get to that? i don't myself think it will. _ it is likely to get to that? i don't myself think it will. the - it is likely to get to that? i don't myself think it will. the snp is i myself think it will. the snp is very close party and let us not remember that the critical factor in all of this is that anybody who is questioned by police as nicola sturgeon as being at the moment, is innocent until proven guilty. she is innocent. so the driver to the suspend her, i do not necessarily see is there. she is also a critical figure in the party. she has led the party through more election victories than most people can count. she is a formidable clinical figure and she wishes to continue to play a role at least for now in the snp i think the snp will stay with
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her. and in any case the labour party are saying that, the opposition would say that, wouldn't they? 1ng opposition would say that, wouldn't the ? �* , opposition would say that, wouldn't the ? m opposition would say that, wouldn't the ? a ., opposition would say that, wouldn't they? as you say nicola sturgeon is a hue they? as you say nicola sturgeon is a huge political _ they? as you say nicola sturgeon is a huge politicalfigure _ they? as you say nicola sturgeon is a huge politicalfigure and - they? as you say nicola sturgeon is a huge political figure and you - a huge politicalfigure and you started off this conversation by saying this was not surprising but for many people it will be because how they know her to be and what they think of her is not synonymous with the headline that they are seen today. with the headline that they are seen toda . a, , with the headline that they are seen toda. , ., , with the headline that they are seen toda. , .,, with the headline that they are seen toda. , ., , ., today. maybe not but as i said at the beginning — today. maybe not but as i said at the beginning of— today. maybe not but as i said at the beginning of our— today. maybe not but as i said at| the beginning of our conversation today. maybe not but as i said at i the beginning of our conversation is it is probably the least surprising political event in scotland in recent times. i think a lot of people have been expecting that something like this would happen. and there has been a lot of speculation about it certainly in scotland, loads and loads. so in that sense it is not surprising. perhaps if you are not in scotland and you are watching this from elsewhere in the uk or elsewhere in the world then you may indeed take a different view and it may come as something of a surprise to you that anyone close to this has speculated
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fairly rigorously over the course of last few weeks. but this would probably happen at some point. thank ou ve probably happen at some point. thank you very much. _ probably happen at some point. thank you very much. a _ probably happen at some point. thank you very much, a political— you very much, a political commentatorjoining us there. lesley riddoch is a columnist for the national and an independence campaigner. she gave us her reaction to the news. strange actually, it's a pretty shocking day weather—wise. not sure if you can see it here. yes. the very unusual summer weather in scotland has just broken in a pretty spectacular way. and so i suppose actually this political event kind of merged that. there was speculation, obviously, when her husband and chief executive peter murrell was arrested and then released without charge two months ago, along with colin beattie, the treasurer.
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the third signatory on the accounts, which was the pointed issue in the matter of spending £600,000 that was collected for the purpose of another independence referendum. the third signatory on that account was nicola sturgeon. so the speculation was that she would be the next person to be arrested. and then there was a very peculiar long period, two months where nothing sort of happened. so scots law is very, very particular about contempt of court. so itjust is not possible to speculate at all about what this now means or delays meant or anything like that. but for sure, i'm sure everybody is pretty shocked that this has moved to such a stage. but really the shock has already been built in with those initial arrests, with her resignation, with moving on with a leadership competition, with a new leader, and with the beginning of a new era. so it's not to say that nicola sturgeon is history. she's too big a figure for that. but the whole independence movement has had to move on and so has the snp government. there are still — the latest poll has 53% support for scottish independence. so the idea that everyone has gone off well, nicola has gone, that's it all over. that's not the way people
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are feeling at all. and that's not going to be easy at all, is it sort of moving past someone who has been such a prominent figure in scottish politics? it isn't easy, but i mean, there's nothing that is involved with scottish independence is easy, and yet it doesn't daunt people from continuing to have that as a goal. but it was when alex salmond stood down after 2014. there were many who thought nicola sturgeon couldn't possibly follow him. and these have been two of the most accomplished politicians in british history, never mind scottish. so there will have to be regrouping and the party will have to take cognisance of whatever comes out of this. but for the moment, it's not at all clear. it's not the feeling for most people that the snp is over or that independence is over. well, i'lljust put to you some comments from scottish labour who said, "for too long a culture of secrecy and cover up has been allowed to fester at the heart of the snp. the same culture that leads to police tents in front gardens
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created the deeply dysfunctional government that is currently failing scots." well, that's the view from scottish labour that this is an inherent problem within the snp. well, you know, to be honest that actually does really rather interfere with what is now a police investigation. there's nobody can apportion suspicion, motive or anything else once an arrest has been made. so that is a bit out of order, but perfectly all right for political opponents to take that risk. most of those who are commentators will not be doing that. but we don't know because this is the point. nobody knows how much there is a big cover up going on. whether money that was raised is essentially being used for the business of promoting independence by the snp or what's happened. there's nobody is clear yet about the scale of anything and humza yousaf cannot come clean, as it were, in the phrasing of the scottish labour party, because that too would also be contempt of court.
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so i'm sorry that it's a bit boring for people who now want to know what's really going on. we don't know and we won't know until there has been charges levied and there hasn't been any yet. so that's where we are. well, what people were able to clearly see was a lot of the imagery that has come with this investigation, the tents in the garden, that sort of thing. i mean, that does create an atmosphere where people really are wondering what's going on. and that's a natural thing. it is, but that's where we all are. we're wondering what's going on. the point is simply that we just can't get further than that until there has been a proper process. and yes, you know, there's many people who felt that the police efforts in in the gardens of the sturgeon household seemed a bit over the top for what was likely to have come out of it. but again, you can't really even comment on that. so, sure.
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the general tenor of things has been that i've got to say westminster has been particularly riven with allegations of sleaze, corruption, you name it, and that scotland has relatively been pretty immune from that. so i think the shock that a party that seemed to be a bit above that now finds itself having to face questions and with arrests, which is dramatic, absolutely has come as a shock to people. but there were stuck. until we get some actual charges or none. i'm joined now by the labour member of the scottish parliament, michael marra. let's start by giving your reaction to the news that the former first minister has been arrested. it to the news that the former first minister has been arrested. it has felt probably _ minister has been arrested. it has felt probably inevitable _ minister has been arrested. it has felt probably inevitable as - minister has been arrested. it has felt probably inevitable as other i felt probably inevitable as other have commentators have said so far and other politicians that this was coming down the line. but i do not
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think it makes it any less shocking. i have been receiving text this afternoon from friends in america and in europe saying what on earth is going on. so i think this is perfect the consciousness far beyond the shores of scotland in nc the uk just in the way that it did when alex salmond was arrested as former first minister. that became international headlines. so a lot of people and scotland have been following this ongoing fiasco closely. and will not be surprised by the arrest this afternoon. but there are significant consequences, political consequences for the snp which we see in the opinion polls already. and actually i think your last connotative they're talking about essentially people people in the independence movement feeling let down and surprised by a party they thought were above this kind of thing that this fall from grace that it may be in the story that they
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have spun about themselves. so i think there are a lot of people that will feel let down and notjust by what has happened to date by a record of a government that's completely lost its way. i record of a government that's completely lost its way.- completely lost its way. i will oint completely lost its way. i will point you _ completely lost its way. i will point you to _ completely lost its way. i will point you to a _ completely lost its way. i will point you to a comment - completely lost its way. i will| point you to a comment made completely lost its way. i will. point you to a comment made by completely lost its way. i will point you to a comment made by one of my previous guests andy and he said actually the snp is actually in much better shape than people seem to be eluding it is. they still have very strong support and this is pretty much a blip on the radar. almost every opinion poll is showing significantly reduced support for the snp at the moment and we will clearly see that a lot of people are quite disillusioned and notjust with nicola sturgeon and her record and herfall from grace in the huge controversy around that, but from the first minister clearly believe is a significant downgrade on that person's political skills. but we also have a record coming on to roost. it is notjust £600,000 black
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hole in the snp finances. it is a £1.9 billion black hole in the scottish public finances that we are facing as a result of the mismanagement of our public finances by this snp government. record deaths in scotland huge issues across our public services one in seven people on waiting lists for operations. the nhs are stubborn and we cannot get improved results in long—term decline in terms of performance i think this is a real wake—up call for notjust the political parties but i think there is a moment of change here, i believe firmly that scottish labour can be that change. we have work to do to earn that trust. it is do to earn that trust. it is important _ do to earn that trust. it is important to _ do to earn that trust. it is important to remember l do to earn that trust. it is important to remember that no charges has have yet been brought even after nicola sturgeon's husband was arrested and colin beattie, the snp then treasurer were released without charge but is this having clinical applications despite the
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fact that there has not been any wrong doing found at this point? it is right that the police followed the rigorous process that i know that the the rigorous process that i know that th - , the rigorous process that i know that th �*- . , , , the rigorous process that i know thatth , ,, _ ., that the will be. it is pretty clear that the will be. it is pretty clear that nicola _ that the will be. it is pretty clear that nicola sturgeon _ that the will be. it is pretty clear that nicola sturgeon should - that the will be. it is pretty clear that nicola sturgeon should be l that nicola sturgeon should be suspended as alex salmond was suspended as alex salmond was suspended and various other politicians at the times i think thatis politicians at the times i think that is a step that the snp should take. but there are of course political consequences by think a lot about this is about a government thatis lot about this is about a government that is so distracted and cannot get on with a job with running the country and readjusting people and those of us who follow scottish politics very closely and participants in and see the collapse of the deposit return scheme just in the last week which has let scottish taxpayers open up a potential bill of tens of millions of pounds. just sheer incompetence on behalf of this snp government in this, nicola sturgeon, was a first minister admitted openly that she took her
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eye off of the ball on drug deaths in scotland which have become the highest in the developed world. so we have a government which i think it's at the end of its lords. now we just need to make that case were very significant change. the relevant by election coming up is a significant part of that but the general election in scotland, the opportunity to get rid of the tories is what we will be arguing for an scottish labour.— is what we will be arguing for an scottish labour. ., ,, , ., , . scottish labour. thank you very much for our scottish labour. thank you very much for your time — scottish labour. thank you very much for your time we _ scottish labour. thank you very much for your time we believe _ scottish labour. thank you very much for your time we believe that - scottish labour. thank you very much for your time we believe that there. i for your time we believe that there. i willjust let for your time we believe that there. i will just let you for your time we believe that there. i willjust let you know for your time we believe that there. i will just let you know that for your time we believe that there. i willjust let you know that novak djokovic has made tennis history. his become the first man to win 23 grand slam titles that happening in the last few minutes. stay with us on bbc news. it has been another hot and humid day but we are starting to see changes.
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he not as widespread as yesterday we have seen some stubborn client and charlie ran into scotland's sharper showers developing down into the south—west over the last few hours and you can see the first signs of those thunderstorms now starting to break out. i suspect over the next few hours those thunderstorms are likely once again to become more widespread particularly across england and wales to close out our sunday evening. probablyjust in time for an evening family barbecue, i am afraid. so we can also see more persistent rain moving out of dorset across gloucestershire and up into southwell. here we could have a couple of inches of rain fall on top of those thunderstorms as well to look out for. may well lead to some localised flooding in places. so that ring clearing slowly away from south wales stays misty and murky got to the south—west him bequeath in a crowd into northern scotland but also once again it is going to be another uncomfortable, humid night for trying to get a good night
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sleep with overnight lows in london of around 17—18 . the south—west starts cloudy and murky but lovely spells of sunshine again, another hot and humid affairfor most spells of sunshine again, another hot and humid affair for most of us. that once again with the humidity will spark off some potentially thundery downpours into the afternoon as you can see quite right spread the showers across england and wales on monday. northern england should be largely fine with just a few isolated showers a few isolated showers to the west of northern ireland. and there will be some drifting in making their way across scotland as well. in terms of the feel of the weather we are still going to keep that humidity for the early part of the week. so mid to high 20s quite widely across the country on monday and potentially into tuesday. that as we have had quite a hot beacon is the threshold for heat wave conditions and it is going to stay pretty warm through the night as well. indications of something just that little bit more comfortable as we head towards
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