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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  June 13, 2023 11:30pm-12:00am BST

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and a 31—year—old has been arrested. the student said he saw a police just before the arrest. i the student said he saw a police just before the arrest.— just before the arrest. i heard the oliceman just before the arrest. i heard the policeman showed _ just before the arrest. i heard the policeman showed to _ just before the arrest. i heard the policeman showed to the - just before the arrest. i heard the policeman showed to the guy - just before the arrest. i heard the policeman showed to the guy in i just before the arrest. i heard the i policeman showed to the guy in the van gets out and then proceeded by the sound of a gunshot. some other stories nova — the sound of a gunshot. some other stories now. it's _ the sound of a gunshot. some other stories now. it's the _ the sound of a gunshot. some other stories now. it's the first _ the sound of a gunshot. some other stories now. it's the first day - the sound of a gunshot. some other stories now. it's the first day of - stories now. it's the first day of hearings for the covert inquiry, this is looking at how ready the uk was for a pandemic. this is looking at how ready the uk was fora pandemic. no this is looking at how ready the uk was for a pandemic. no one would be found guilty here though, the point is to learn lessons for the future. and next, ladies have you everfelt conscious about your boots being different sizes? it's turns out you're not alone because women in dorset have been speaking about this. turns out it affects up to 94% of us. a woman who doctors thought was dealt, was actually found breathing in a coffin in ecuador. herfamily opened it breathing in a coffin in ecuador. her family opened it to change her clothes before the funeral and she gasped for air. time now for ten seconds of football fun. we all have
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a me to take it too far on a night out and that was main city players last night as a celebrated winning the trouble. can you really blame them, though? that is good work lads. you are all cut up now. goodbye. this is bbc news. we'll have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour as newsday continues, straight after hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk from manchester. i'm stephen sackur. this city styles itself the capital of the north of england, but with the pride there is also some resentment of the degree of centralisation in england, the dominance of london, and the lack of regional autonomy.
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my guest today is the mayor of this city, andy burnham. he quit westminster politics to come here and he is committed to a radical vision — a decentralised, united kingdom. but is his own party, let alone the country as a whole, ready for his brand of radicalism? andy burnham, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. now, mr mayor, you have had six years in thisjob and you came to it with very big ambitions. do you think you have made a difference? i hope so. i think manchester today, in 2023, is different from the city i came to in 2017.
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you just need to look at the skyline of manchester city centre to see that difference. the city is growing in stature, physically, but i think also in terms of its reputation, both in the uk and around the world. this was, obviously, the home of industry going back a couple of centuries. hit a decline in the second part of the 20th century, but manchester is most definitely back. and i think there is a lot of energy flowing around the city right now. but i guess we have to measure your performance against promises, and you made some key promises. one was on housing — tackling manchester's housing problems but, in particular, tackling the number of people sleeping rough on the streets, the number of homeless people in the city. sure. if you look at the latest report from the respected housing charity shelter, they say that the number sleeping rough have gone up in the last year, that manchester's rate of homelessness is far worse
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than the national average, and that, as they put it, it is the most problematic city in the north—west of england. so, you failed? no, i don't accept that. when you are a successful city that brings extra pressures and extra challenges, but, no, the commitment i made was on rough sleeping. and on rough sleeping, we do a count every month. we are holding the numbers, in the high double figures, that position has been maintained through the cost of living crisis. to be honest, we thought the numbers would go up but they have not and the reason why they have not is as mayor i came in and said i wanted to offer everybody forced to sleep rough the chance of a bed every night so we have that scheme in place. it supports around 600 people every night in our city region. and the point is this, i cannot stop people going onto the street because those are circumstances beyond my control, but what i can look you in the eye
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and say everybody who goes on the street currently, we can offer them accommodation on the same day. and i believe that honours the commitment i made. obviously, the bigger question of homelessness and housing shortages is something, again, that i do not have the full means to deliver, but on rough sleeping we have made a real difference. that phrase you used "i don't have the full means to deliver", that's a very interesting phrase. does that apply, too, to your promises to clean up manchester's air? because if we look at manchester today, again, its record over the last six years is poor, and the scheme that was supposed to be put in place this year, a clean air zone, has basically been suspended. well it's because the pandemic changed things. so, we were required by the government to put in place a scheme to clean up the air across our ten boroughs because all ten boroughs received a legal direction to act from the government, and we worked with the government in good faith. but what we found was,
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through the pandemic, the cost of vehicles shot up, the order books became full so people could not buy vehicles, and what we would not do here is hit people with the tax they could not avoid. so we went back to the government said, look, this scheme can't proceed now because the world has changed, post pandemic, and we are currently in that position where the scheme is under review. you are in a crazy position. where you've got signs across manchester telling people there is going to be a clear zone and they need to be aware if they are driving a commercial vehicle of a certain age they will get a charge and those signs are completely redundant now because the scheme is not happening. you are the mayor, you have these excuses, but the people of manchester will think, "this guy, he's failed". they are not excuses, to be honest. we were required to take measures to clean up the air and have a clean air zone, but we went back and said,
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"we cannot do this without punishing people who are already struggling in a cost of living crisis". it was myjob to stand up for the people of greater manchester and i did in that going back to the government saying, "look, not now, and actually we think the right way to net zero is not to hit people with a big stick and hit them with taxes they cannot avoid, the best way to do it is to do it via incentives, support people who want to make the change to make the change". i think more broadly there is a big point there, if, as the uk or as a world community, we try and punish people to net zero with taxes or say, "no, you cannot do that thing, like doing any more", then i think we may not get the level of pace on this journey that we need. i believe in an incentives based approach, and that's what we're trying to do here. it depends how you look at a problem like environmental clean—up. isn't the biggest punishment for the people of manchester they are still breathing an unacceptably dirty, polluted air? you are implying we're doing nothing
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and that is not true. we are undertaking, in greater manchester, we are months away from the start of it, the biggest transformation of public transport in england outside of london in three decades. i have already taken the decision, i am the first mayor in england, outside of london, to take the decision to put buses back back under public control and as it stands today, i am purchasing electric buses in large numbers because they will come in to a reform system that starts in this september called the b network. and my officials tell me the buses in our ten boroughs are the biggest cause of polluted air and those buses will be changing dramatically later this year. are you, these days, seeing yourselves as much more of the mayor of manchester, committed and driven by that sense of commitment to place, than you see yourself as andy burnham, the senior
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labour party politician. in other words is political partisan politics less important to you now, and this commitment to manchester, fundamentally what drives you? that is perceptive, absolutely, that's the way i do see myself. when i came to the end of my 16—year journey in westminster, i tried to advocate for the north of england within that system and perhaps people may remember, some people may remember, that alongside others i worked to have the truth told about the hillsborough disaster. the very fact that an entire english city was crying injustice for 20 years, tells, and nobody at whitehall as far as i could tell was listening, tells you that the north does not get heard in the same way in the westminster system as other parts of the country. right. cos it's interesting to me that while you have been
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in power in manchester, the conservative party, the enemy as far as you are concerned in terms of your partisan political colours, the conservative party has made commitments to levelling up, to the northern powerhouse, political program as they call it. and there are people like michael gove in government whom you have said, "makes important things happen". "when michael uses his power to try to get things done, it is a pleasure to work with him". so you are now giving this conservative government quite a lot of credit? i will always give credit where it is due. when i left westminster i took a vow that i would notjust play the usual point scoring game. i said publicly that where the government gets it right, i will say so. but when they do not, i will call them out with all of my political, sort of, experience and knowledge. and i did that during the pandemic when they tried to treat greater manchester citizens as second—class citizens.
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i will never stand for that, and i called them out as loudly as i could. but, no, where they get it right, i will do that. i learnt in my time in westminster and i have talked about the experience of working on hillborough. when i reached across the house and worked with theresa may, that was when progress gets made. and my experience in politics has shown me that. when i came into this role, i decided it was time to do something different. there was no point repeating the point scoring of westminster through these new devolved structures, so i decided to take a place first rather than party first approach. when you speak with a place first perspective, i think you can get more authority, i guess, in what you're saying because you are speaking for everybody here, the way the vast majority of people here feel, however they vote. and i'm conscious the two elections i have stood to be mayor of greater manchester, people beyond my own party have given me their support. so i am ever conscious of that when i speak for this city region.
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but i think that gives the voice more, if you like, more authority because of that place first approach. what you did say earlier this year which was interesting in terms of this debate about partisanship and how it works is, earlier this year you said "i do not think any of the parties", you meant the two main parties, labour and conservative, "i don't think either of them are cutting through to the extent that is needed to give true voice to the feelings that people have at the moment." you said that early this year do you still think that is true? do you still think that your party, the labour party, is not truly, truly, cutting through and giving voice to the feelings of the people of the north—west, for example? i think it was a reflection of where we where last year, and the part of the cycle we are in, the mid—term cycle. always oppositions will say more and more the closer we get to a general election.
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but would you accept that in politics what you need especially as an opposition party after the enemy has been in power for a number of years, what you need is a big, a galvanising idea? do you think the labour party today has that big, galvanising, idea? yes, i do, and i will come onto it. i also believe people are going back to labour. the polls show that. people are ready to, well, people want change, i think. the next election is going to be a change election. i think the galvanising idea is around more devolution, that has been a very... really? that is the galvanising idea? more power for people and places to improve the things that they care about. i think that is a galvanising idea. i think there is a lot of unhappiness and we saw this with
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the brexit referendum. that, i think, revealed a sense of alienation, neglect in large parts of the country. i think the idea of giving more places and the people who live in those places more power to change things, i think can be a galvanising idea. i do not think you can run the world top—down in the way it used to be run, that was a very 20th—century idea. i think in the 21st century its cities we are sitting in now that are leading the way in bringing forward new ideas and new thinking. the more you empower these places, the more they will do. and, actually, that will mean a resurgent north of england, and people do get excited about that. you know american politics quite well. look atjoe biden. joe biden, a moderate and centrist democrat, has committed $400 billion to his inflation reduction programme, which essentially is mostly about investment in green technologies. where is keir starmer�*s
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equivalent of such a big idea? you mentioned it, i think the whole drive to a green economy. but it's been delayed! but that has to be credible, hasn't it? it has been delayed by a couple of years. is that a great slogan to put on the next labour election card? "we have a big idea but by the way, we're not to do it for a while." it's a balance, you have to have a big idea that is deliverable, and that is the reality of it. if you think about that issue and what it could mean for the north of england, if you were to really proceed with that change it could re— industrialise the north of england in a way that brings jobs that will last the rest of this century. now that is a very big prize. it is only the labour party that is talking seriously on a biden—like scale, as to how that is actually done. there's other big proposals out there, there is a commitment from the labour party to renationalise the railways, that is a very welcome commitment. that is a pretty big idea.
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but there was a much bigger idea in the last labour party manifesto, which wasn'tjust to nationalise the rail industry but key utilities as well. kier starmer has walked away from that. the problem being, that manifesto, to make my point, had good things but too many things, and it therefore lacked credibility with some people. just to be clear you still support the idea, do you not, of putting back into public ownership key utilities, energy provision, water as well? in a realistic way. because i think we sold off control of the basics in this country. as i say we deregulated buses, we privatised trains, energy systems, and people are paying high prices for energy now because there is not enough public control over prices. take another example. water, where, again,
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privatised without the necessary regulatory control. we have reached a position in britain today where people cannot afford buses nor trains, cannot afford energy and we see raw sewage pumped into our rivers and in our seas and tell me that that is a good place to have ended up. we need more public ownership and more public control of essentials. let's briefly discuss brexit. you were a remainer as was keir starmer. recently kier starmer has said that he is not interested in reopening notjust the debate about whether britain should one day return to the eu but he is not even interested in opening up a debate about whether britain should try to get a deal, a bit like norway or switzerland, where it is in an economic area with the eu and joins the customs union, the single market. he does not want to
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discuss any of that. is that a mistake? i don't think it is quite fair, if i am honest. there definitely has been a signalling of a different, less sabre rattling tone. forgive me, but i will give you a quote from starmer. "britain's future is outside the eu, it is not in the single market. "it is not in the customs union, it is not in a return to freedom of movement. "all those arguments are in the past where they belong." absolutely. we cannot keep rerunning this debate and ignore some of the other issues that need to be addressed. if britain does get into a position where we are constantly debating, we will not move forward. but you mention those things, you can leap back to those things. they have been settled in this period that we are in, but you can have a different relationship with europe than the one we have seen in recent times where it was all about positioning against the french and challenging the irish government. unhelpful rhetoric when you sit
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in a position like i do where we want good relationships with ireland, a place that has strong bonds with the north—west of england. and we do want to work with our colleagues in germany, as we do. we need to move beyond that phase that we have been in where there is this pointless posturing in europe and get to a more practical space where we get arrangements that work better for people. before we end, let's talk about the way the labour party works. you are now looking at it from manchester, not from westminster. but what we see in london and in starmer�*s party headquarters is an obsession with discipline. jeremy corbyn, for example, the left of the labour party, the leader, as you said, in 2019, led labour to a significant defeat. he's been told he cannot
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fight his constituency. and people who support him in the party, it seems, are being either rooted out or being told they cannot stand for significant position. do you worry about a witch—hunt being led by starmer and his loyalists? i worry that things become too functional between left and right of the party and i have often felt in my political career that i have lived in the middle of those two groups. i came into politics as somebody who was, if you like, a loyal labour background and arrived in parliament and was a little surprised at times at the ferocity of the to—ing and fro—ing between, if you like, factions on both side of the party and i think the risk in this moment is that the party becomes trapped in that kind of situation and misses people in the middle who want to focus on what it is we need to do to answer the concerns that people
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here in greater manchester and beyond have. i think the focus needs to stop being internal and become relentlessly external, and it needs to be about all sides of the labour movement starting to pull in the same direction towards, hopefully, labour victory in 202a. do you think there a degree of insecurity in the leader's office right now? not so long ago you appeared to be blaming unelected people in their 20s and 30s around kier starmer who think they know it all and think they are the bees knees. you said it would be nice to have support here in manchester from the national office. i think what happens, because i've been there, is that there is an anonymous briefing culture in westminster that is one of the most unattractive things about it. have you been briefed against? recently, yes. why do you think they do that?
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i am not going to be so poker—faced as to say did not happen in the past. it did happen in the brown and the blair governments, it happens but it is not attractive particularly where you have elected politicians out and trying to do a job, i made the point that i was out doing a positive thing on technical education, a big reform we have bringing through here, ending the domination of english education by university route and getting focused on technical education. when you are out there it is hard to read some of the stuff in the papers. let's be blunt. do you think some people in the national labour leadership see you something of a threat? you are a very high profile figure with a platform here in manchester and they see you as a threat. i don't think so. i said i am standing for a third term and i am. i'm making preparations to be here for the long—term. you also said you remain interested
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in national office and that if the time was right, and conditions were right, you would consider another run for the leadership. the difficult thing is that people sometimes in westminster think that i am still talking in the same code the people in westminster. if i am asked a direct question, and i hope i have shown it in this interview, i try to answer it honestly and i will not say that i will rule out going back there one day but there is no intention right now. i am focusing on what i am doing here. i am standing for a third term and i do not know if it comes over but i am more energised and happier in what i am doing than i have ever been because of the nature of devolution. sometimes i felt like an outsider in westminster, something of a fish out of water. for somebody from these parts it was not my natural habitat and at times i felt it hard to fit in, and in my lateryears where i was wanting pursue issues like hillsborough and other issues, the way social care is provided,
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i often found that i could not speak in an interview like this with my own voice in the way that i wanted to speak in the way of toeing the line and voting in a certain way. i feel if you spend a long time in the westminster system, it can make you appear a different person than you actually are because you always have to stick to a certain line. the big theme in this interview has been how you best be a different maker in politics and isn't it the truth that despite all you are committed to achieving in manchester, ultimately if you want to make the biggest difference you will have to return to westminster. this is where everybody in the uk and outside needs to focus because implicit in the question is that westminster is the only show in town. that is implicit and that is the problem. that is the problem with the united kingdom because we have an over centralisation of political power in one place. and that over centralisation creates the unhealthy culture, the abuse of that power
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and the anonymous briefing. that is the problem. and i decided to leave that system with the mayor of liverpool city, we did it together, to create something new and to rebalance politics in this country, to give the regions of this country and particularly the north that has been long neglected, allowed a political voice than it has before and that is the something new in british politics right now. the places that westminster has always liked to try and pat on the head are answering back. they don't like it that we are answering back and it will not change. 0ur voice is only going to get louder and that is actually the most interesting thing happening in british politics right now. there we have to end but andy burnham, i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk.
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hello there. a number of places saw the temperature reach 30 celsius on tuesday. we saw 31 celsius in porthmadog in northwest wales, making it the warmest day there so far for wales. next few days, high pressure will continue to bring a lot of dry, sunny, warm weather, but we are losing the humidity, so we'll be a little bit fresher, more comfortable and certainly cool and fresher during the overnight periods. now, high pressure sitting towards scandinavia will bring a fine day for wednesday. light onshore breezes affecting eastern england — that will bring temperatures down somewhat. could just see an isolated shower, western scotland, perhaps northern ireland. but most places will be dry and we'll see those temperatures reaching the mid to upper 20 celsius. but always cooler along north sea coast — 20—22 or 23 degrees there. as we head through wednesday night, see a little bit of mist and fog develop once again.
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most places will be dry, any showers fading away and temperatures ranging from around 19—14 degrees. again, humidity will be lower, so a more comfortable night for sleeping. so, for thursday, then, we start off a little bit of mist and fog here and there. otherwise, it's another dry, sunny day with a little bit of fairweather cloud into the afternoon. again, just a chance of an isolated shower developing across some western areas. most places, though, will remain dry. and again, with that onshore breeze, it's much cooler along north sea coasts — 21 degrees there. it's the mid to high 20s. elsewhere now, we start to see some changes as we push towards the end of the week, this area of low pressure starts to move into western areas. that could bring a few showers, but high pressure continues to bring fine and dry weather for most of the country for friday. we've lost the onshore breeze, so will be warmer along north sea coasts. winds will be light across the board. lots of sunshine into the afternoon, but a chance of some showers or thunderstorms pushing into the far west later in the day. but again, those temperatures mid
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to high 20s for most of us — very pleasantly warm and less humid. as we head into the weekend, though, it does look like this area of low pressure becomes a bit more established across the western side of the country. a few showers could get towards the east as well, but it's always bumping up against that area of high pressure, so it could take its while to reach more southern and eastern areas. but you can see it's an unsettled theme for the weekend and indeed even into next week, but for the best part, it should stay on the warm side.
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welcome to newsday. reporting live from singapore, i'm monica miller. the headlines. donald trump pleads not guilty to criminal charges over alleged mishandling over alleged mishandling of classified documents. of classified documents. i think it's going great. i think it's going great. i think it's i think it's a rigged deal here. a rigged deal here. we have a rigged country, we we have a rigged country, we have a country that's corrupt, have a country that's corrupt, that's got no borders, that's that's got no borders, that's got nothing but problems. got nothing but problems. we're a nation in decline. we're a nation in decline. two university students two university students are among three people are among three people found dead in nottingham. a man has been arrested on suspicion of murder. ukraine's counter—offensive gets under way. the bbc is given access
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to one of the areas its forces have just re—taken.

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