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tv   HAR Dtalk  BBC News  June 14, 2023 4:30am-5:00am BST

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a vigil has been held in nottingham and and a 31—year—old has been arrested. this student says he belief before the arrest. i heard the police say to them and get out of the car and then proceeded by the sound of a gunshot. some other stories now. it is the first day of hearings for the covid enquiry. this is looking at how ready the uk was for pandemic. no—one will be found guilty but the point is to learn lessons for the future. and next, ladies, have you ever felt conscious about your boobs being different sizes? it turns out you are not alone because women in dorset have been speaking about these and it actually affects up to 94% of us! and a woman who doctors thought was dead was actually found breathing in a coffin in ecuador. her family opened it to change her clothes before the funeral and she gasped for air. time now for 10 seconds
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of football fun. we all have a mate who takes it too far on a night out and that was man city players last night as they celebrated winning the treble. can you really blame them, though? that is very good work, lads! you are all caught up now. bye! this is bbc news. we will have the headlines and all the main news stories for you at the top of the hour, straight after this programme. welcome to hardtalk from manchester. i'm stephen sackur. this city styles itself the capital of the north of england, but with the pride there is also some resentment of the degree of centralisation in england, the dominance of london, and the lack of regional autonomy.
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my guest today is the mayor of this city, andy burnham. he quit westminster politics to come here and he is committed to a radical vision — a decentralised, united kingdom. but is own party, let alone the country as a whole, ready for his brand of radicalism? andy burnham, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much. now, mr mayor, you have had six years in thisjob and you came to it with very big ambitions. do you think you have made a difference? i hope so. i think manchester today in 2023 is different
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from the city i came to in 2017. you just need to look at the skyline of manchester city centre to see that difference. the city is growing in stature, physically, but i think also in terms of its reputation, both in the uk and around the world. this was, obviously the home of industry, going back a couple of centuries. hit a decline in the second part of the 20th century, but manchester is most definitely back. and i think there is a lot of energy flowing around the city right now. but i guess we have to measure your performance against promises and you made some key promises. one was on tackling the manchester housing problems but in particular tackling the number of people sleeping rough on the streets, the number of homeless people in the city. sure. if you look at the latest report
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from the respected housing charity shelter, they say that the number sleeping rough have gone up in the last year, that manchester's rate of homelessness is far worse than the national average, and that, as they put it, it is the most problematic city in the north—west of england? so, you have failed? no, i don't accept that. when you are a successful city that brings extra pressures and extra challenges, but, no, the commitment i made was on rough sleeping and on rough sleeping, we do a count every month, we are holding the numbers, in the high double figures, that position has been maintained through the cost of living crisis. we thought the numbers would go up but they have not and the reason why they have not is as mayor i came in and said i wanted to offer everybody forced to sleep rough the chance of a bed every
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night so we have that scheme in place. it supports around 600 people every night in the city region. and the point is this, i cannot stop people going onto the street because those are circumstances beyond my control, but i can look you in the eye and say everybody who goes on the street currently, we can offer them accommodation on the same day. and i believe that honours the commitment i made. the bigger question of homelessness and housing shortages is something again that i do not have the full means to deliver, but on rough sleeping we have made a real difference. that phrase you used "i don't have the full means to deliver", that's a very interesting phrase. does that apply to your promises to clean up manchester's air, if you look at manchester today, again, its record over the last six years is poor and the scheme that was supposed to be put in place this year, a clean air zone, has basically been suspended? this because the pandemic changed things. so we were required by the government to put in place a scheme to clean up the air across our ten boroughs
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because all ten boroughs received a legal direction to act from the government, and we worked with the government in good faith. but what we found was, through the pandemic, the cost of vehicles shot up, the order books became full so people could not buy vehicles, and what we would not do here is hit people with the tax they could not avoid. so we went back to the government said, look, this scheme and cannot proceed now because the world has changed, post pandemic, and we are currently in that position where the scheme is under review. you are in a crazy position. where you have signs across manchester telling people there is going to be a clear zone and the need to be aware if they are driving a commercial vehicle of a certain age they will get a charge and those signs are completely redundant now because the scheme is not happening. you are the mayor, you have these excuses but the people of manchester will think this guy has failed? they are not excuses, to be honest. we were required to take measures to clean up
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the air and have a clean air zone, but we went back and said, we cannot do this without punishing people who are already struggling in a cost of living crisis. it was myjob to stand up for the people of greater manchester and i did in that going back to the government saying, look, not now, and actually we think the right way to net zero is not to hit people with a big stick and hit them with taxes they cannot avoid, the best way to do it is to do it via incentives, support people who want to make the change to make the change. more broadly there is a big point there, if as the uk or as a world community, we try and punish people to net zero with taxes or say, no, you cannot do that thing, like doing any more, then i think we may not get the level of pace on this journey that we need. i believe in an incentives based approach. it depends how you look at a problem like environmental clean—up. isn't the biggest punishment for the people of manchester they are breathing an unacceptably
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dirty, polluted air? you are implying we're doing nothing and that is not true, in greater manchester we are just away from the start of it, the biggest transformation of public transport in england outside of london, in three decades. i have already taken the decision, i am the first mayor in england, outside of london, to take the decision to put buses back back under public control and as it stands today, i am purchasing electric buses, in large numbers because they will come in to a reform system that starts in this september called the b network. and my officials tell me the buses in our ten boroughs are the biggest cause of polluted air and those buses will be changing dramatically later this year.
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are you these days seeing yourselves as much more of the mayor of manchester, committed and driven by that sense of commitment to place, than you see yourself as andy burnham, the senior labour party politician, in other words is political partisan politics less important to you now, and this commitment to manchester, fundamentally what drives you? that is perceptive, absolutely, that's the way i do see myself. when i came to the end of my 16—yearjourney in westminster, i tried to advocate for the north of england, within that system and perhaps people may remember, some people may remember alongside others, i worked to have the truth told about the hillsborough disaster. the very fact that an entire english city was crying injustice for 20 years, tells, and nobody at whitehall as far as i could tell was listening, tells you that the north does not get heard in the same way in the westminster system as other parts of the country.
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the very fact that an entire english city was crying injustice for 20 years, tells, and nobody at whitehall as far as i could tell was listening, tells you that the north does not get heard in the same way in the westminster system the very fact that an entire english city was crying injustice for 20 years, tells, and nobody at whitehall as far as i could tell was listening, tells you that the north does not get heard in the same way in the westminster system as other parts of the country. it's interesting to me that while you have been in power in manchester, the conservative party, the enemy, as far as you are concerned in terms of partisan political colours, have made commitments to levelling up, to the northern powerhouse, political program as they call it. when michael gove uses his power to try to get things done, it is a pleasure to work with him. so you are now giving this conservative government quite a lot of credit? i will always give credit where it is due. when i left westminster i took a vow that i would notjust play the usual point scoring game. i said publicly, where the government gets it right, i will say so. but when they do not, i will call them out with all of my
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political sort of experience and knowledge. and i did that during the pandemic, when they tried to treat greater manchester citizens as second—class citizens. i will never stand for that and i called them out as loudly as i could. no, where they get it right, i will do that. i learnt in my time in westminster and i have talked about the experience of working on hillborough. when i reached across the house and worked with theresa may, that was when progress gets made. and my experience in politics has shown me that. when i came into this role, i decided it was time to do something different. there was no point repeating the point scoring of westminster through these new devolved structures, so i decided to take a place first rather than party first approach. when you speak with a place first perspective you can get authority in what you're saying because you are speaking for everybody here, the way the vast majority of people here feel,
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however they vote. and i'm conscious the two elections i have stood to be mayor of greater manchester, people beyond my own party have given me their support. so i am ever conscious of that when i speak for this city region. but i think that gives the voice more, if you like, more authority because of that place first approach. what you did say earlier this year which was interesting in terms of this debate about partisanship and how it works is, earlier this year you said "i do not think any of the parties", you meant the two main parties, labour and conservative, "i don't think either of them are cutting "through to the extent that is needed to give "true voice to the feelings of that people "have at the moment." you said that early this year do you still think that is true, that your party, the labour party is not truly, truly cutting through and giving voice to the feelings of the people of the northwest? i think it was a reflection of where we where last year, and the part of the cycle we are in, the mid—term cycle. always oppositions will say more and more the closer we get to a general election.
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but would you accept that in politics what you need especially as an opposition party after the enemy has been in powerfor a number of years, what you need is a big, a galvanising idea? do you think the labour party today has that big, galvanising idea? yes, i do, but what is that about, i will come onto it. i also believe people are going back to labour. the polls show that. people are ready to, well, people want change, i think. the next election is going to be a change election. i think the galvanising idea is around more devolution, that has been a very... really? that is a galvanising idea? more power for people and places to improve the things that they care about. i think that is a galvanising idea. there is a lot of unhappiness and we saw this with the brexit
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referendum. that revealed a sense of alienation, neglect in large parts of the country. i think the idea of giving more places and the people who live in those places more power to change things, i think can be a galvanising idea. i do not think you can run the world top—down in the way it used to be run, that was a very 20th—century idea. i think in the 21st century, it's cities like this one we are sitting in now that are leading the way in bringing forward the new ideas and new thinking. the more you empower these places, the more they will do. and actually, that will mean a resurgent north of england, and people do get excited about that. you know american politics quite well. look atjoe biden — joe biden, a moderate — a centrist democrat, has committed $400 billion to his inflation reduction programme, which essentially is mostly about investment
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in green technologies. where's keir starmer�*s equivalent of such a big idea? you mentioned it, i think the whole drive to a green economy? but it's been delayed! but that's to be credible, hasn't it? but it has been delayed by a couple of years. is that a great slogan to put on the next labour election card? "we've got a big idea "but by the way, we're not to do it for a while." it's a balance, you have to have a big idea that is deliverable, and i think that is just the reality of it. but if you think about that issue and what it could mean for the north of england, if you were to really proceed with that change, it could reindustrialise the north of england in a way that brings jobs that will last the rest of this century. now, that is a very big prize. and it's only the labour party that is talking seriously on a biden—like scale, if you like, as to how that is actually done. there's other big proposals out there. there's a commitment from the labour
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party to renationalise the railways — that is a very welcome commitment as well. that is a pretty big idea, but there was a much bigger idea in the last labour party manifesto, which wasn't just to nationalise the rail industry, but to nationalise key utilities as well. kier starmer has walked away from that. but he has walked away from it. the problem being, that manifesto, to make my point, had good things, but too many things and it, therefore, lacked credibility with some people. butjust to be clear — you still support the idea, do you not, of actually putting back into public ownership key utilities, energy provisioners, water as well? in a realistic way. because, as i said before, i think we sold off control of the basics in this country. as i say, we deregulated buses, we privatised trains, energy systems, and people are paying high prices for energy now because there isn't enough public control over prices. take another example, though.
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water, where, again, privatised without the necessary regulatory control. we have reached a position in britain today where people can't afford buses, can't afford trains, can't afford energy, and we see raw sewage pumped into our rivers and in our seas, and tell me that that is a good place to have ended up. we need more public ownership and more public control of essentials. let's just briefly talk about brexit. you are a remainer, keir starmer was a remainer. recently he has said that he is not interested in reopening notjust the debate about whether britain should one day go back into the eu, but he is not even interested in opening up a debate about whether britain should try to get a deal, a bit like norway or switzerland, where it's in an economic area with the eu, where itjoins the customs union, the single market. he doesn't want to discuss any of that.
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do you think that's a mistake? i don't think it is quite fair, though, if i am honest. there definitely has been a signalling of a different, less sabre—rattling tone. well, forgive me, but i'm going to give you a quote from starmer. "britain's future is outside the eu, "it is not in the single market. "it is not in the customs union, "it is not in a return to freedom of movement. "all of those arguments are in the past where they belong." well, i think... absolutely. we cannot keep rerunning this debate and ignore some of the other issues that need to be addressed. if britain does get into that position where we are just constantly debating, we are not going to move forward. but you mention those things, i think you can leap back to those things. they have been settled in this period that we are in, but you can have a different relationship with europe than the one that we have seen in recent times where it was all about kind of positioning against the french and
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kind of challenging the irish government, you know, unhelpful rhetoric when you sit in a position like i do where we want good relationships with ireland, a place that has strong bonds with the northwest of england or we do want to work with our colleagues in germany, as we do. i think we've got to move beyond that phase that we have been in where there is this pointless posturing in europe and get to a more practical space where we're getting arrangements that work better for people. before we end, let's talk about the way the labour party works. you are now looking at it from manchester, not from westminster. but what we see in london and in starmer�*s party headquarters is an obsession with discipline. jeremy corbyn, for example, the left of the labour party, the leader, who, as you just said, in 2019, led labour to a very significant defeat, he's been told he can't fight his constituency.
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and people who support him in the party, it seems, are being either rooted out or being told they can't stand for significant position. do you worry about a witch—hunt being led by starmer and his loyalists? i worry that things become too functional between left and right of the party and i have often felt in my political career that i have lived in the middle of those two groups! you know, i kind of came into politics as somebody who was, if you like, a loyal labour sort of background, and arrived in parliament and was a little surprised at times at the ferocity of the to—ing and fro—ing between, if you like, factions on both side of the party and i think the risk in this moment is that the party becomes trapped in that kind of situation and misses people
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in the middle who want to focus on what it is we need to do to answer the concerns that people here in greater manchester and beyond have. so i think the focus needs to kind of stop being internal, it needs to be relentlessly external and it needs to be about all sides of the labour movement starting to pull in the same direction towards, hopefully, a labour victory in 202a. do you think there's a degree of insecurity in the leader's office right now? not so long ago you appeared to be blaming unelected people in their 20s and 30s around keir starmer who think they know it all and think they're the bees knees. you said it would be nice to have support up here in manchester from the national office. well, i think what happens is, because i've been there, is that there is an anonymous briefing culture in westminster that is actually one of the most unattractive things about it. have you been briefed against? recently, yes. why do you think they do that?
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crosstalk i am not going to be so po—faced is to say did not happen in the past. it did happen in the brown and the blair governments, it happens, but it's not attractive because particularly where you have elected politicians out, trying to do a job, i made the point that i was out doing a positive thing on technical education, a big reform that we're bringing through here, ending the domination of english education by the university route and getting focused on technical education. when you are out there, it is hard to read some of the stuff in the papers. let's be blunt — do you think some people in the national labour leadership see you as something of a threat? you're a high—profile figure, you've got your own platform here in manchester and they see you as a threat. i don't think so. i said i am standing for a third term, and i am. i'm making preparations
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for the long term. you also said you remain interested in national office, and that if the time were right and the conditions were right, you would consider another run for the leadership. i think the difficult thing is people sometimes in westminster think that i am still talking in the same code the people in westminster. if i'm asked a direct question, i hope i've shown it in this interview, i try to answer it honestly, and i will not say that i will rule out going back there one day, but there is no intention right now. i am focusing on what i am doing here. i'm standing for a third term, and i don't know if it comes over, but i'm more energised, i'm happier than what i am doing than i have ever been because of the nature of devolution. sometimes i felt like a bit of an outsider in westminster, something of a fish out of water. as somebody from these parts, it wasn't kind of my natural habitat and, at times, i felt it hard to fit in and, in my later years, where i was wanting to pursue issues
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like hillsborough and other issues, the way social care is provided, i kind of often found that i could not speak in interviews like this with my own voice in the way that i wanted to speak, and the way of toeing the line and voting in a certain way. i feel if you spend a long time in the westminster system, it can make you appear a different person than you actually are because you're always having to stick to a certain line or... the big theme in this interview has been how you best be a different maker in politics, and isn't the truth that despite all you are committed to achieving here in manchester, ultimately, if you want to make the biggest difference, you will have to go back to westminster... this is where everybody in the uk and outside needs to sort of focus here because implicit in the question is that westminster is the only show in town. that's implicit and that's the problem. that is the problem with the united kingdom because we have an overcentralisation of political power in one place, and that overcentralisation creates the unhealthy culture,
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the abuse of that power and the anonymous briefing. that is the problem, and i decided to leave that system with the mayor of liverpool city, we did it together, to create something new, to rebalance politics in this country, to give the regions of this country and particularly the north that's been long neglected, allowed a political voice than it's before, and that is the something new in british politics right now. the places that westminster has always liked to try and pat on the head are actually answering back. they don't like it particularly, but we are answering back, it will not change. 0ur voice is only going to get louder and that is actually the most interesting thing happening in british politics right now. and there we have to end, but, andy burnham, i thank you very much forjoining me on hardtalk. thank you very much.
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hello there. a number of places saw the temperature reach 30 celsius on tuesday. we saw 31 celsius in porthmadog in northwest wales, making it the warmest day of the year so far for wales. next few days, high pressure will continue to bring a lot of dry, sunny, warm weather, but we're losing the humidity, so we'll be a little bit fresher, more comfortable, certainly cool and fresher during the overnight periods. now, high pressure sitting towards scandinavia will bring a fine day for wednesday. light onshore breezes affecting eastern england — that will bring temperatures down somewhat. could just see an isolated shower, western scotland, perhaps northern ireland, but most places will be dry and we'll see those temperatures reaching the mid to upper 20 celsius. but always cooler along north sea coasts,
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20—22 or 23 degrees there. as we head through wednesday night, see a little bit of mist and fog develop once again. most places will be dry, any showers fading away and temperatures ranging from around 9 to 1a degrees. again, humidity will be lower, so a more comfortable night for sleeping. so, for thursday, then, we start off a little bit of mist and fog here and there. otherwise, it's another dry, sunny day with a little bit of fairweather cloud into the afternoon. again, just a chance of an isolated shower developing across some western areas. most places, though, will remain dry. and again, with that onshore breeze, a touch cooler along north sea coasts — 21 degrees there. it's the mid to high 20s. now, we start to see some changes as we push towards the end of the week, this area of low pressure starts to move into western areas. that could bring a few showers, but high pressure continues to bring fine and dry weather for most of the country for friday. we've lost the onshore breeze, so it will be warmer along north sea coasts. winds will be light across the board. lots of sunshine into the afternoon,
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but a chance of some showers or thunderstorms pushing into the far west later in the day. but again, those temperatures mid to high 20s for most of us — very pleasantly warm and less humid. as we head into the weekend, though, it does look like this area of low pressure becomes a bit more established across the western side of the country. a few showers could get towards the east as well, but it's always bumping up against that area of high pressure, so it could take its while to reach more southern and eastern areas. but you can see it's an unsettled theme for the weekend and indeed even into next week, but for the best part, it should stay on the warm side.
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live from london, this is bbc news. a defiant donald trump pleads not guilty to criminal charges over mishandling national security files. today we witnessed the most evil and heinous abuse of power in the history of our country. nottingham greves for the attacks in that city here in the uk. to japan, where at least two people have been have been shot
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dead at an army firing range.

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