we will discuss nation's phone in. we will discuss mortgages, 5% and you, at ten o'clock, but on the next hour, think about this. is it time to stop exploring the titanic? thoughts with the friends and families of those who lost their lives on the titan, and the tragic irony. we have a maritime tragedy because of an enduring fascination with the maritime tragedy. the titanic�*s hold on the popular imagination and shows. think of the story, the casualty of the collision with an iceberg, social class, opulence, they said it was unsinkable. as a species we believe there is no such thing as a final frontier, but should we think on that? we will reflect on the last week's coverage, we will reflect on the last five days and we will reflect on the last

111 years. our starting question, titanic, time to stop exploring? get in touch. here is the news from karishma patel. the co—founder of the company that built the titan submersible has rejected some of the criticisms over safety and certification. guillermo sohnlein says the sub was iii years in development and went through rigorous safety checks. banks and building societies are meeting the chancellor, jeremy hunt, this morning to discuss the upheaval in the mortgage market. the government and lenders are under pressure to do more to help those struggling with rising mortgage rates. a man has been charged with three counts of attempted murder in connection with a stabbing at central middlesex hospital in west london on wednesday.

matteo bottarelli, who's 43, will appear before magistrates this morning. bbc figures show that 20 councils across england are getting rid of pay and display parking machines, meaning people will have to use an app instead. councils say the change reduces the risk of theft and saves money on machine maintenance. good morning. let's hearfrom you, 08085 909693, 85058. reading about the titanic this morning, you are mesmerised by some of the photographs and the images and some of the tales, and you can understand why there is this enduring

fascination. ifound why there is this enduring fascination. i found this quote on the titanic story, at a basic level it has something to do with the hubris involved, something with human failing. you realise this is the apex of the elegant life and then you are on your way to the ocean bottom. very much an aspect of the human condition, as is the need to explore, the need to endeavour, the need to go beyond the final frontiers. should we think specifically about the titanic, is it somewhat ghoulish and lacking in respect or is it a story that needs to be told and thinks we still need to be told and thinks we still need to find out? so many human stories this week. jonathan amos as our science correspondent. what a week you have had. we will be with you in a second but first let's hear the us coast guard which broke the news of the sad loss of life and what had happened at a press conference in boston at around 8pm last night. a rear admiral said that a robot had

discovered a tail cone of the tyton submersible on the sea floor. this submersible on the seafloor. this mornin: a submersible on the seafloor. ti 3 morning a remote operated vehicle from the vessel horizon arctic discovered the tail cone of the tyton submersible approximately 1600 feet from the power of the titanic on the sea floor. the rov subsequently found additional debris. in consultation with experts from within the unified command, the debris is consistent with a catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber. upon this determination, we immediately notified the families. on behalf of the united states coastguard and the entire unified command, i offer my deepest condolences to the families. i can

only imagine what this has been like for them, and i only imagine what this has been like forthem, and i hope only imagine what this has been like for them, and i hope this discovery provides some solace during this difficult time. 50 provides some solace during this difficult time.— the hollywood film directorjames cameron, who made the 1997 movie titanic, has told the bbc he felt the loss of the titan submersible "in his bones." you have probably seen that film, most people have. he himself has completed 33 dives to the wreck. the columns were lost and navigation was lost, and i said instantly you can't lose comms and navigation without a highly energetic catastrophic events. the first thing that popped in my mind was

implosion. ifelt in my bones that popped in my mind was implosion. i felt in my bones what had happened. the reason for that is the tracking transponder is on its own separate pressure housing and its battery operated so for the electronics and communication system of the sub to fail, the tracking transponder simultaneously, the sub is gone. i called around the community and i got reports that various acoustic networks in operation around the atlantic had heard very loud, impulsive event. for me there was no doubt, this entire week has felt like a prolonged, nightmarish charade where people are running around, talking about banging noises and talking about banging noises and talking about oxygen and all those other stuff and the coastguard is out with

aeroplanes. i knew the sub was sitting exactly underneath its last known depth and position and that is exactly where they founded. there was no search, when they finally got an rov down that could make the depth, they found it within hours, within minutes. there are valid... hearing from james cameron there are important questions that i know many of you have been expressing by text and through social media about the validity of this story. just as original story has, this one has an incredible fascination. it is a talking point up and down the nation. jonathan amos has been covering it all week. whatever you say about the coverage, whatever you say about the coverage, whatever you

say about the coverage, whatever you say about news value and whatever the media concentrates on, there are so many parallels between the maritime tragedies. and in the fascination of why we do this and those who do do it, the danger they put themselves in.— put themselves in. yes, and when i think about — put themselves in. yes, and when i think about the _ put themselves in. yes, and when i think about the loss _ put themselves in. yes, and when i think about the loss of _ put themselves in. yes, and when i think about the loss of the - put themselves in. yes, and when i think about the loss of the great. think about the loss of the great ship the titanic in the early 19005, but was an inflection point for big ships on the ocean, they went away and thought, we need to think about how we operate, and many of the regulations and procedures that international shipping follows on stems directly from that incident and this deep submersible industry, this extreme tourism, because we are seeing more and more extreme tourism

and this is quite a white topic when you think of it, it includes those people who go to the top of everest, who want to go on a trek through the deepestjungle —— quite a wide topic. deepest “ungle -- quite a wide toic. . , , ., , ., topic. that is us, that is what we are, it is what _ topic. that is us, that is what we are, it is what we _ topic. that is us, that is what we are, it is what we do. _ topic. that is us, that is what we are, it is what we do. it - topic. that is us, that is what we are, it is what we do. it is - topic. that is us, that is what we are, it is what we do. it is ok, i topic. that is us, that is what we l are, it is what we do. it is ok, but we need to _ are, it is what we do. it is ok, but we need to do _ are, it is what we do. it is ok, but we need to do it _ are, it is what we do. it is ok, but we need to do it in _ are, it is what we do. it is ok, but we need to do it in a _ are, it is what we do. it is ok, but we need to do it in a sensible - are, it is what we do. it is ok, but we need to do it in a sensible way| we need to do it in a sensible way and what has stemmed from this accident is was it done in a sensible way? there is absolutely risk in life, if we could not accept that we would not get out of bed in the morning, but the question is whether there is an unnecessary risk, and how are we protected from making stupid mistakes? some risk, and how are we protected from making stupid mistakes?— making stupid mistakes? some are aruauin making stupid mistakes? some are arguing that _ making stupid mistakes? some are arguing that going _ making stupid mistakes? some are arguing that going down _ making stupid mistakes? some are arguing that going down there - making stupid mistakes? some are arguing that going down there in i making stupid mistakes? some are l arguing that going down there in the first place, and there have been many expeditions, is intrinsically a breach of taste. you make a really good point about the push to be bigger, the push to be better, the push to be shinier, the push to be ahead. in the edwardian era there

was very much a race between companies to build a bigger, better, more luxurious ship, look at this one, look at the titanic, it is indestructible. people like musk and others who build rockets to the moon. i others who build rockets to the moon. ., , others who build rockets to the moon. .,, ., ~' others who build rockets to the moon. ., ., ~ ., , moon. i was talking about this with moon. i was talking about this with m wife moon. i was talking about this with my wife the — moon. i was talking about this with my wife the other _ moon. i was talking about this with my wife the other day, _ moon. i was talking about this with my wife the other day, there - moon. i was talking about this with my wife the other day, there is - moon. i was talking about this with my wife the other day, there is a i my wife the other day, there is a hotel in this country called titanic hotel, you walk into it, walk into your bedroom and it is playing the celine dion music and all the rest of it. my wife said to me, that is pretty distasteful. i said, what do you mean? and she said, when i'll we going to stay at the 9/11 hotel? thousands of people died when the titanic went down. should we have hotels and museums? is titanic went down. should we have hotels and museums?— titanic went down. should we have hotels and museums? is very decent eriod of hotels and museums? is very decent period of time? _ hotels and museums? is very decent period of time? is _ hotels and museums? is very decent period of time? is very _ hotels and museums? is very decent period of time? is very decent - period of time? is very decent eriod? period of time? is very decent period? i _ period of time? is very decent period? i know _ period of time? is very decent period? i know that _ period of time? is very decent period? i know that was - period of time? is very decent period? i know that was an i period of time? is very decent - period? i know that was an extreme statement but you see the point

being made by her.— statement but you see the point being made by her. absolutely, and it is a point — being made by her. absolutely, and it is a point being _ being made by her. absolutely, and it is a point being made _ being made by her. absolutely, and it is a point being made by - being made by her. absolutely, and it is a point being made by many . it is a point being made by many listeners and viewers. so much to get into, get in touch and tell us exactly what you think, it is what we are here full. this tragic episode over the last five or six days, our thoughts go out, profound condolences to those people who love to those who died on the titan. it is just terrible. what do we know? what happened? they discovered debris on the sea floor about 500 metres —— 400 metres from the bow of the titanic. we realise that was the expected place to find the debris. when you go to see the titanic you are asked to approach from the bow against the current so you are not driven on to the wreck of the titanic. this submersible on sunday would have been going down, probably

got to about 3000 metres, not quite at the titanic. then it appears it suffered a catastrophic implosion. the enormous found some flaw in the structure of this vessel and just pushed it inwards very rapidly with extreme energy. like an explosion in reverse, if you like. everything goes inwards rapidly and then it all shatters and falls apart and fell directly down onto the sea floor right in front of the titanic, that famous bow that we have all seen pictures of. they have identified bits and pieces, they have identified the two titanium end caps, these are very strong structures, and they have identified this tale: that the submersible had, and then the landing gear. this is a structure on the bottom which allows it to sit on a flat surface like the

jack of a ship, and they will now be looking at all of the debris they can see and they will be photographing it, they will be looking at the orientation on the sea floor, wanting to know where the bits and pieces are in relation to each other, because the smart engineers who do accident investigations will then be able to reverse engineer what happened. they may be able to tell, for example, where on the submersible the initial failure occurred. the expectation, speak to the experts, is it is the centre part of this sub that was the weak points, the carbon fibre tube that separated these two titanium engines. and i am sure they will focusing on where the carbon fibre join the titanium at either end. was this web flaw was, without the flaw the pressure exploited. find

this web flaw was, without the flaw the pressure exploited.— the pressure exploited. and they ruestion the pressure exploited. and they question to _ the pressure exploited. and they question to about _ the pressure exploited. and they question to about regulation? i the pressure exploited. and they| question to about regulation? we the pressure exploited. and they - question to about regulation? we are in international— question to about regulation? we are in internationalwaters, _ question to about regulation? we are in international waters, beyond - question to about regulation? we are in international waters, beyond the l in international waters, beyond the economic territories of the united states and canada. this is the international scene, so to speak, so any investigation that has picked up... whenever they have an event like this the americans use the slightly awkward phrase called a mishap inquiry. you would think it is a little bit more than a mishap but that is the phraseology they use. but it is not clear who will take up such an inquiry because we are out in international waters, because this is such an unusual event, because the craft was not certified by any of the international shipping societies that certify ships. the crew was international too, you have american, brits and a frenchman on board. the french, british and

american governments are probably going to want to have a say in all of this. somebody needs to be appointed to pick up a formal inquiry so that lessons are learned. let's go to our callers and other guests in a moment. this noise was detected on sunday by the coastguard.— detected on sunday by the coastruard. ,, ., , , coastguard. the us navy picked it u -. the coastguard. the us navy picked it up- the us _ coastguard. the us navy picked it up- the us navy. _ coastguard. the us navy picked it up. the us navy, sorry. _ coastguard. the us navy picked it up. the us navy, sorry. it- coastguard. the us navy picked it up. the us navy, sorry. it was. coastguard. the us navy picked it| up. the us navy, sorry. it was not verifiably an — verifiably an implosion but they notice that is what it was. why would people not notified on sunday? the us coast guard was, but that information was not shared with the general public. um? information was not shared with the general public— information was not shared with the general public._ we - information was not shared with the general public._ we have l general public. why not? we have talked about _ general public. why not? we have talked about this, _ general public. why not? we have talked about this, i _ general public. why not? we have talked about this, i told _ general public. why not? we have talked about this, i told you - general public. why not? we have talked about this, i told you about the argentinian naval submarine lost in 27. they knew it had imploded because an underwater microphone actually on the other side of the

atlantic to wear that submarine was lost picked up an acoustic anomaly —— the argentinian naval submarine lost in 2007. there are a network of underwater microphones across the globe, part of a process of enforcing... globe, part of a process of enforcing. . ._ globe, part of a process of enforcinu... ~ . , globe, part of a process of enforcinu...~ . , enforcing... whales communicate vast distances. sound _ enforcing... whales communicate vast distances. sound travels _ enforcing... whales communicate vast distances. sound travels enormous - distances. sound travels enormous distances. sound travels enormous distances very _ distances. sound travels enormous distances very fast, _ distances. sound travels enormous distances very fast, these - distances. sound travels enormous distances very fast, these hydro i distances very fast, these hydro phones are bad for research purposes, but think about whether titanic is, it is in that region where all the submarine cables bringing the global internets, across from europe into north america —— these hydro phones are there for research purposes. global communication is dependent on those cables so they are geo— strategically placed. you would expect the us navy to have hydro phones because they will be listening for russian serbs. they told the us coast guard they had an

acoustic anomaly on their underwater microphones around about the time the sub went missing. —— they will have hydro phones because they will be listening for russian subs. like ou to be listening for russian subs. like you to our — be listening for russian subs. like you to our science _ be listening for russian subs. like you to our science correspondent, jonathan amos. rosie in glasgow and phoenix in ellesmere port are our callers. it morning. phoenix? goad callers. it morning. phoenix? good morninu. callers. it morning. phoenix? good morning- for— callers. it morning. phoenix? good morning- for a _ callers. it morning. phoenix? good morning. for a start, _ callers. it morning. phoenix? (emf. morning. fora start, condolences callers. it morning. phoenix? (emf. morning. for a start, condolences to all of the families out there. it is obviously a hard time for them. but the guy has to answer for this because he was clearly told his submersible did not meet standards to go 4000 metres deep into the water. , to go 4000 metres deep into the water, , , to go 4000 metres deep into the

water. , , ., to go 4000 metres deep into the water-_ there - to go 4000 metres deep into the water._ there are | water. sorry, carry on. there are onl ten water. sorry, carry on. there are only ten rovs — water. sorry, carry on. there are only ten rovs in _ water. sorry, carry on. there are only ten rovs in the _ water. sorry, carry on. there are only ten rovs in the world - water. sorry, carry on. there are only ten rovs in the world that l water. sorry, carry on. there are i only ten rovs in the world that can go that deep, and the titanic should have been left well alone. it is not an amusement park there for enjoyment, it is a mass grave site. it went down in 1912, 1500 people lost their lives that night. people are just going down therefore enjoyment, paying 200 grants, it is not on. —— going down there, for enjoyment, paying 200 grants. i still feel slightly conflicted when they find bodies in siberia of men who died 40,000 years ago and i them and say that is fine, but these were people. interesting texts coming in on the subject of taste, is it any different to traipsing over the normandy beaches asks andy in christchurch. rosie in glasgow, your

thoughts? christchurch. rosie in glasgow, your thou~hts? �* ., christchurch. rosie in glasgow, your thou~hts? �* . ., , christchurch. rosie in glasgow, your thou~hts? ., . , ., , thoughts? again, really, really sor for thoughts? again, really, really sorry for the — thoughts? again, really, really sorry for the families _ thoughts? again, really, really sorry for the families and - thoughts? again, really, really i sorry for the families and friends, it is such — sorry for the families and friends, it is such a — sorry for the families and friends, it is such a tragedy. i don't think they— it is such a tragedy. i don't think they will— it is such a tragedy. i don't think they will ever stop. to me, it is like _ they will ever stop. to me, it is like everest, people go up so many times_ like everest, people go up so many times a _ like everest, people go up so many times a year, pay all that money to try to _ times a year, pay all that money to try to get _ times a year, pay all that money to try to get to— times a year, pay all that money to try to get to the top and that is a mass _ try to get to the top and that is a mass grave — try to get to the top and that is a mass grave sites too, and it is stupid — mass grave sites too, and it is stupid amounts of money people are paying _ stupid amounts of money people are paying to _ stupid amounts of money people are paying to go down to the titanic and to go— paying to go down to the titanic and to go up— paying to go down to the titanic and to go up everest but people will continue — to go up everest but people will continue doing it whether we like it or not _ continue doing it whether we like it or not. it— continue doing it whether we like it or not. , , ., ., or not. it is 'ust what we do, whether — or not. it is 'ust what we do, whether it — or not. it isjust what we do, whether it be _ or not. it isjust what we do, whether it be hubris - or not. it isjust what we do, whether it be hubris or - or not. it isjust what we do, | whether it be hubris or noble endeavour. thank you so much, rosie. hello from ireland, how can we push the boundaries of knowledge, if we did not have the human trait of wanting to know more we would still be living in caves, that is from simon. huge global rescue response

forfive human beings, pitiful responsible 500 migrants who drowned off the greek coast two weeks ago. were the lives of less value? a sad reflection on our world. that point is being made again and again by many viewers and listeners. we have done many migrant phone—ins, we did a two hour special on the latest migration figures, we talk to mp5 about it regularly but the coverage on this, for the reasons you have highlighted a dillyn leyds edge, has been extensive. —— for the reasons you have highlighted and delineated. arif in blackburn? just you have highlighted and delineated. arif in blackburn?— arif in blackburn? just to do with the fact that _ arif in blackburn? just to do with the fact that i'm _ arif in blackburn? just to do with the fact that i'm very _ arif in blackburn? just to do with l the fact that i'm very disappointed in society, will government and the media that we do not see the names of the people that pass away in the

channel crossing, the creek channels, but these five billionaires have gone down at their own risk, they had signed waivers, they had said we might lose our life that we will do this, that and the other. but the media put these people front and centre because they are billionaires. can people front and centre because they are billionaires.— are billionaires. can you understand the fascination _ are billionaires. can you understand the fascination with _ are billionaires. can you understand the fascination with the _ are billionaires. can you understand the fascination with the human - the fascination with the human story. oh, my goodness, what might have happened? what might they be going through? it is a maritime tragedy because of a maritime tragedy, all of those aspects. it is like the pages of a novel, scenes from a film. can you understand that? ., , , from a film. can you understand that? ., i, that? each and every person crossing the channel — that? each and every person crossing the channel had _ that? each and every person crossing the channel had their— that? each and every person crossing the channel had their own _ that? each and every person crossing the channel had their own story, - the channel had their own story, their own background. our government had a big part to play in that in ourforeign policy. a movie could be made out of that too, just as much

as these guys who spend their money, their time and fascination going down to see the titanic. these people just wanted a better life. you answered that point brilliantly, thank you very much.— thank you very much. maxine in wimbledon? — thank you very much. maxine in wimbledon? good _ thank you very much. maxine in wimbledon? good morning. - thank you very much. maxine in wimbledon? good morning. i. thank you very much. maxine in . wimbledon? good morning. ithink thank you very much. maxine in - wimbledon? good morning. ithink it is very— wimbledon? good morning. ithink it is very sad _ wimbledon? good morning. ithink it is very sad that these people have this morbid curiosity to go down into these... to see the relics of the titanic _ into these... to see the relics of the titanic. my grandmother was due to sail— the titanic. my grandmother was due to sail on— the titanic. my grandmother was due to sail on the titanic, she was actually— to sail on the titanic, she was actually pregnant with my mum who was then— actually pregnant with my mum who was then born in august and at the last minute — was then born in august and at the last minute she changed her mind and didn't— last minute she changed her mind and didn't go _ last minute she changed her mind and didn't go. every time i hear anything _ didn't go. every time i hear anything about the titanic i get a tingle _ anything about the titanic i get a tingle in — anything about the titanic i get a tingle in my spine, my goodness, i may not— tingle in my spine, my goodness, i may not have been here because of that _ may not have been here because of that. �* ., . , ., that. and the titanic is about innocent souls _ that. and the titanic is about innocent souls who _ that. and the titanic is about innocent souls who each - that. and the titanic is about i innocent souls who each had... movies could have been made about all of their lives, arif�*s point,

the human stories, the poor who wanted a better life, wanted to go to new york, the huddled masses, as they put it. i will bring in dik barton, the first british man to dive to the wreckage of the titanic. good morning. the titanic story, for all those reasons, it is such a... i was going to say a rich story but it is quite the opposite, thinking about some of those on board. you are the first british man to drive to the wreckage of the titanic. you more than anyone understands the danger and the fascination? it is iconic in every _ danger and the fascination? it is iconic in every way, _ danger and the fascination? it 3 iconic in every way, she has been made to immortalise, mage romanticised through the years, the incident was not the single biggest

maritime disaster ever, of course. it is important to note that what we were doing as commercial maritime salvage researchers, deep sea operations, was very professional and professionally run, using purpose—built submersibles to go to those depths. oceangate were running tourist trips. probably not totally compliant, that will come out in the wash. sadly people were lost, it is tragic. my dearfriend wash. sadly people were lost, it is tragic. my dear friend was lost, and experience of mariner. hagar tragic. my dear friend was lost, and experience of mariner.— experience of mariner. how are you feelin: ? experience of mariner. how are you feeling? what _ experience of mariner. how are you feeling? what you _ experience of mariner. how are you feeling? what you do _ experience of mariner. how are you feeling? what you do and _ experience of mariner. how are you feeling? what you do and what - experience of mariner. how are you feeling? what you do and what you | feeling? what you do and what you have to is extraordinary. == feeling? what you do and what you have to is extraordinary.— feeling? what you do and what you have to is extraordinary. -- my dear friend was — have to is extraordinary. -- my dear friend was lost, _ have to is extraordinary. -- my dear friend was lost, and _ have to is extraordinary. -- my dear friend was lost, and experienced - friend was lost, and experienced sub—mariner. friend was lost, and experienced sub-mariner.— friend was lost, and experienced sub-mariner. what do you think of those who say _ sub-mariner. what do you think of those who say it _ sub-mariner. what do you think of those who say it is _ sub-mariner. what do you think of those who say it is ghoulish, - sub-mariner. what do you think of those who say it is ghoulish, a - those who say it is ghoulish, a graveyard, we should show more

respect, and also those who are saying they are billionaires who make their choices, not the young lad, obviously. what do you say to that? , ., , lad, obviously. what do you say to that? y ., , ., that? everyone is entitled to their 0 . inion. it that? everyone is entitled to their opinion- it has — that? everyone is entitled to their opinion. it has been _ that? everyone is entitled to their opinion. it has been categoricallyl opinion. it has been categorically proven there are no bodies lying on the site, there are remains in the site, people who stayed inside and opted not to go top i think the main issueis opted not to go top i think the main issue is what we were doing was taking the wreck to the public through artefact exhibitions, documentation, and watching the deterioration of the wreck. it is accelerating now and she could well be lost in not long as she started to oxidise and implode and fall apart. james cameron did an

extraordinaryjob, notjust the movie, which was romantic, but he has since done documentaries documenting the wreck. so working at depth and so on. there is a tremendous number of benefits to the whole operation. let tremendous number of benefits to the whole operation.— whole operation. let me ask you, and i want to go — whole operation. let me ask you, and i want to go to — whole operation. let me ask you, and i want to go to claes-goran _ i want to go to claes—goran wetterholm injust a i want to go to claes—goran wetterholm in just a second, a swedish maritime historian who has written a load of brilliant books on the titanic, what is it like down there and what did it feel like for you? there and what did it feel like for ou? �* ., . ., there and what did it feel like for you? apart from the cold, obviously there is no — you? apart from the cold, obviously there is no ambient _ you? apart from the cold, obviously there is no ambient light, _ you? apart from the cold, obviously there is no ambient light, i - you? apart from the cold, obviously there is no ambient light, i think- there is no ambient light, i think there is no ambient light, i think there are so many aspects, you are two and a half miles below the sea on the sea bed. there is no way out

unless you have systems and processes in form of the titan, it was very difficult to try to reconcile... was very difficult to try to reconcile. . ._ was very difficult to try to reconcile... ., , ., m reconcile... how did you get? we used purpose-built _ reconcile... how did you get? we used purpose-built deepwater . used purpose—built deepwater submersibles. pressure led straight lines, it is harderfor it to get into a rounded shape. —— pressure loves straight lines. into a rounded shape. -- pressure loves straight lines.— into a rounded shape. -- pressure loves straight lines. good morning, claes-goran _ loves straight lines. good morning, claes-goran wetterholm. - loves straight lines. good morning, claes-goran wetterholm. i - loves straight lines. good morning, claes-goran wetterholm. i know. loves straight lines. good morning, | claes-goran wetterholm. i know you claes—goran wetterholm. i know you were a friend of paul—henri nargeolet, who died, so my condolences to you and to all of his

friends and family and all of those on the titan. you have written several titanic books, what is the enduring fascination? iathiith several titanic books, what is the enduring fascination?— enduring fascination? with the titanic, of _ enduring fascination? with the titanic, of course, _ enduring fascination? with the titanic, of course, there - enduring fascination? with the titanic, of course, there is - enduring fascination? with the | titanic, of course, there is only one _ titanic, of course, there is only one titanic _ titanic, of course, there is only one titanic i_ titanic, of course, there is only one titanic. i think the story is compelling, the people that travelled with her and all these things — travelled with her and all these things i— travelled with her and all these things. i have been working with an exhibition _ things. i have been working with an exhibition currently in york, and that is— exhibition currently in york, and that is where i met paul—henri nargeolet, he came to the exhibition and we _ nargeolet, he came to the exhibition and we had _ nargeolet, he came to the exhibition and we had a great time together. i met him _ and we had a great time together. i met him for— and we had a great time together. i met him for the first time in over 30 years— met him for the first time in over 30 years ago and then we have met on all of these _ 30 years ago and then we have met on all of these expeditions i have partaken— all of these expeditions i have partaken in and he used to refer to me as _ partaken in and he used to refer to me as mr_ partaken in and he used to refer to me as mr why, because i kept asking him questions all the time. when i

read about— him questions all the time. when i read about the missing sub last sunday. — read about the missing sub last sunday, my first thought was, may he not have _ sunday, my first thought was, may he not have been there. in my second thought— not have been there. in my second thought was, they are gone. i listened — thought was, they are gone. i listened to what james cameron said this morning, he said the same thing — this morning, he said the same thing the _ this morning, he said the same thing. the connection was broken, they heard — thing. the connection was broken, they heard nothing, there was nothing — they heard nothing, there was nothing coming from the sub. something had happened. this was my first thought, thing has imploded. that is— first thought, thing has imploded. that is what i thought. it is very sad, _ that is what i thought. it is very sad, but — that is what i thought. it is very sad, but they never suffered. because _ sad, but they never suffered. because it is an instant implosion, it happened so swiftly that they haventm — it happened so swiftly that they haven't... this is actually what ph told me _ haven't... this is actually what ph told me once, if something happens you will— told me once, if something happens you will not— told me once, if something happens you will not even have time to think you will not even have time to think you are _ you will not even have time to think you are dead, itjust happens and you are dead, itjust happens and you are _ you are dead, itjust happens and you are gone. on the titanic itself, it is so, so

sad. it on the titanic itself, it is so, so sad. , ., ., ,, on the titanic itself, it is so, so sad. , ., ., ~ ., sad. it is, and i am thinking about paul henry _ sad. it is, and i am thinking about paul henry nargeolet, _ sad. it is, and i am thinking about paul henry nargeolet, i— sad. it is, and i am thinking about paul henry nargeolet, i guess - sad. it is, and i am thinking about paul henry nargeolet, i guess he | sad. it is, and i am thinking about. paul henry nargeolet, i guess he had a world record in diving to the titanic and he knew it well and it was fantastic to talk to him about the wreck, the titanic, because he had such incredible knowledge. and we could substitute each other because i was doing research into the very history and he came to our exhibition in york in november when i met him. we discussed a lot of things and we had decided he would become a consultant for the exhibition of the wreck. thank you, sir. we exhibition of the wreck. thank you, sir- we heard _ exhibition of the wreck. thank you, sir. we heard james _ exhibition of the wreck. thank you, sir. we heard james cameron, - exhibition of the wreck. thank you, | sir. we heard james cameron, there are so many parallels being drawn and i want to bring in maxine now in wimbledon. we will hear what you

have to say and then we will go to the news and sport. is it time to stop exploring the titanic? have another one, i believe you have already had a say! what is interesting, have you been on or not, i don't think you have? are you there? it is billy. let me just it is billy. let me 'ust establish... �* it is billy. let me just establish... maxine,| it is billy. let me just i establish... maxine, you it is billy. let me just _ establish... maxine, you there? she is not there! jimmy in south wales... is not there! jimmy in south wales- - -_ is not there! jimmy in south wales... ,., ., ., ., is not there! jimmy in south wales... ., ., ., ., wales... good morning. i am a former submariner— wales... good morning. i am a former submariner so — wales... good morning. i am a former submariner so i _ wales... good morning. i am a former submariner so i know— wales... good morning. i am a former submariner so i know how _ wales... good morning. i am a former submariner so i know how nasty - wales... good morning. i am a former submariner so i know how nasty ses. l submariner so i know how nasty ses. especially at depth, it is terrifying. my heart goes out to

these people, it is terrible, some of the comments you had about those people who have died, they have had a lot of airtime, these people wanted to do it, i wish they had spent money on pakistan and the poor people out there trying to improve their lives rather than doing what they are doing. we don't need to look at things and do stuff but that is stupid and the fact he made a statement, he did not want to use submariners and engineers to design a submarine wasjust submariners and engineers to design a submarine was just amazing to me. thank you very much. loads of strong points like that are being made and please keep expressing them. call us on 08085 909693, textus en 85085. it is 9:32am.

here is the news with karishma patel. family and friends of the five men who died on board the titan submersible have opened up about their grief. the five—day search for the sub ended yesterday — after debris was found on the sea bed. relatives of hamish harding said he'd "lived his life for his family, his business and for the next adventure". mortgage lenders are meeting with chancellor this morning. there's pressure on both the government and the banks to provide support to homeowners struggling with higher mortgage costs. the bank of england increased its main lending rate to 5% yesterday. the electoral commission says around 14,000 people weren't able to vote in last month's local elections in england. that's because they couldn't show an accepted form of photo id. this was the first time voters in great britain have had to show identification. the first full day of live music gets underway at glastonbury today. over 200,000 people are expected to attend over the weekend —

with more than 2,000 acts performing. now the sport with shourjo sarkar. good morning. australia will resume on 328 for 7 on day two of the women's ashes test at trent bridge this morning. spinner sophie ecclestone led england's fightback yesterday after a strong start by australia. the test is the first match in a multi—format series. england's footballers have got off to a winning start at the under—21 european championship in georgia. jacob ramsey and emil smith—rowe both scored as england beat the czech republic 2—0. england's next match is against israel on sunday. ireland's leona maguire is the best placed european golfer after round one of the women's pga championship in newjersey. maguire is three shots off the lead held by south africa's lee—ann pace on five under par. and in the nba, the 19—year—old french sensation, victorwembanyama, has joined san antonio spurs, as the number one overall pick in the 2023 draft. the teenager is regarded

as one of the biggest prospects in basketball, and is one of the most coveted picks since lebronjames in 2003. talking about the titanic, is it time to give it a rest so they may rest in peace? some texts, it is awful what happened people are in the titan but please, please, stop

these dives. scientists have an overview so let the titanic rest in peace, that is from wendy and worcestershire. let me see, the titanic as a graveyard, it is ghoulish to allow tourists to visit, filled with dead people who died in tragic circumstances, the sets should not be allowed by international law, like naval borax. we have some guests joining international law, like naval borax. we have some guestsjoining us. matt, are you there? it is all yours. matt, are you there? it is all ours. , ., �* , ., , yours. yes, i am here. it's not 'ust about the — yours. yes, i am here. it's not 'ust about the titanic, i yours. yes, i am here. it's not 'ust about the titanic, this is i yours. yes, i am here. it's not 'ust about the titanic, this is just h about the titanic, this is just selfish rich people to listen. people doing stuff to say they have done stuff, as loads of your caller said loads of this money could be

spent elsewhere. projects like this, add a huge environmental cost as well so what benefit to humanity armageddon from this and to say they are explorers might be controversial or mean but they are not really explorers. they are paying to drag the cartels of others and creating a high—risk environment for people to work in. strong stuff! it is but thatis work in. strong stuff! it is but that is how i feel. you think about the people who go down to beeswax, the people who go down to beeswax, the pilots, the people supporting, experiencing high risk events many times and it's only a matter of time before the risk becomes a consequence but the tourists got to do at once. we must understand when we do these high risk events unfold we do these high risk events unfold we do these high risk events unfold we do them and redo them sparingly and what other people put at risk just to say we have been somewhere and done something. i just to say we have been somewhere and done something.—

and done something. i would like to listen to simon _ and done something. i would like to listen to simon and _ and done something. i would like to listen to simon and maybe - and done something. i would like toj listen to simon and maybe respond. good morning. good morning. former professional maritime archaeologist. thank you for getting in touch. tell us about the fascination. we thank you for getting in touch. tell us about the fascination.— us about the fascination. we are interested _ us about the fascination. we are interested in _ us about the fascination. we are interested in history _ us about the fascination. we are interested in history and - interested in history and archaeology is on the tv schedule is archaeology is on the tv schedule is a huge _ archaeology is on the tv schedule is a huge amount and it is a fascination with history that compels us to go and visit these sites _ compels us to go and visit these sites we — compels us to go and visit these sites. we have people visiting shipwrecks, diving all over the world, — shipwrecks, diving all over the world, many shipwrecks around the uk. world, many shipwrecks around the uk people — world, many shipwrecks around the uk. people are fascinated by it and this is— uk. people are fascinated by it and this isjust — uk. people are fascinated by it and this isjust an extreme version, these _ this isjust an extreme version, these grave sites around the world. the mary— these grave sites around the world. the mary rose, amazing. i was these grave sites around the world. the mary rose, amazing.— the mary rose, amazing. i was too ounu the mary rose, amazing. i was too mm: to the mary rose, amazing. i was too young to go — the mary rose, amazing. i was too young to go on _ the mary rose, amazing. i was too young to go on the _ the mary rose, amazing. i was too young to go on the mary _ the mary rose, amazing. i was too young to go on the mary rose - the mary rose, amazing. i was too young to go on the mary rose butl the mary rose, amazing. i was too young to go on the mary rose but i have dived — young to go on the mary rose but i have dived in similar sites around the world —

have dived in similar sites around the world and it is fascinating. contacting our ancestors. those who went before. simon, i must say, as i was reading this morning, looking at some of the photographs on board the titanic, the opulence of the dining room, other parts of the ship, the grand staircase, the sheer extravagant opulence of the dining room for the first class passengers, it is spine tingling, it is so near but so far away. 111 years ago, it is a blink in the span of time and having photographs, it makes it seem so simon? it is not really archaeological. from — it is not really archaeological. from my— it is not really archaeological. from my perspective, the suitcases, the personal items found down there are far— the personal items found down there

are far more touching and resonate more _ are far more touching and resonate more with— are far more touching and resonate more with me, for sure.— more with me, for sure. likewise, for me was _ more with me, for sure. likewise, for me was seeing _ more with me, for sure. likewise, for me was seeing the _ more with me, for sure. likewise, for me was seeing the opulence i more with me, for sure. likewise, i for me was seeing the opulence and thinking about that particular contrast that you are drawing our attention to. absolutely. matt, do you get better? i do attention to. absolutely. matt, do you get better?— attention to. absolutely. matt, do you get better? i do not think that is the point _ you get better? i do not think that is the point i _ you get better? i do not think that is the point i raised. _ you get better? i do not think that is the point i raised. you - you get better? i do not think that is the point i raised. you can - you get better? i do not think that is the point i raised. you can get l is the point i raised. you can get that information through existing photographs, through archaeologists, through specialists. the people going on pushing the boundaries of human endeavour but when it comes to tourists it is different. what is the tourist going to get from visiting iraq or going in a deep submersible lacking out a window that they would not get from reading a book, talking to an archaeologist or seeing existing footage and documentaries? the difference is they have the money to say i have been able to go down and do that.

i'll be taking that risk for the right reasons and are they putting other people at risk for the right reasons? are they spending money which could be spent for the betterment of humanity, these journeys are woefully expensive, just to say they have been there rather than they have read or learnt about it? we can learn more about history through the right means rather than some rich people who want to call themselves explorers, going down in submersibles. we need to learn more about history and that is clearly important. the question is clearly important. the question is is it worth having rich people going down and doing this, having explorers who are not really explorers who are not really explorers doing this? simon. i totally understand _ explorers doing this? simon. i totally understand and - explorers doing this? simon. i totally understand and respect explorers doing this? simon. i - totally understand and respect the point _ totally understand and respect the point of— totally understand and respect the point of view. we live in a democracy. it would be very hard to create _ democracy. it would be very hard to create laws —

democracy. it would be very hard to create laws to stop this. | democracy. it would be very hard to create laws to stop this. i am democracy. it would be very hard to create laws to stop this.— create laws to stop this. i am not sa in: create laws to stop this. i am not saying we — create laws to stop this. i am not saying we should _ create laws to stop this. i am not saying we should create - create laws to stop this. i am not saying we should create laws - create laws to stop this. i am not saying we should create laws to l create laws to stop this. i am not. saying we should create laws to stop this taking place, i am saying we should share an honest opinion. mikey is, it is your money, you spend it how you want to, if you want to take the risk in this crazy economic environment for other people to take high risks, that is the way at the world but i do not think it is right. he the way at the world but i do not think it is right.— the way at the world but i do not think it is right. he draws a moral line but simon, _ think it is right. he draws a moral line but simon, you _ think it is right. he draws a moral line but simon, you are _ think it is right. he draws a moral line but simon, you are a - line but simon, you are a professional, do you see that? i can see it and understand _ professional, do you see that? i can see it and understand that but i have _ see it and understand that but i have been— see it and understand that but i have been on expeditions funded by very wealthy people. giving me the opportunity to go most people would never— opportunity to go most people would never go _ opportunity to go most people would never go to so we appreciate that input _ never go to so we appreciate that input and — never go to so we appreciate that input and it has given us opportunity and maybe not in this particular— opportunity and maybe not in this particular case, one of the owners of microsoft, he has funded vast expeditions around the world and has

pushed _ expeditions around the world and has pushed the _ expeditions around the world and has pushed the technology and pushed knowledge of these sites to greater levels _ knowledge of these sites to greater levels to _ knowledge of these sites to greater levels to do the philanthropy. jennifer— levels to do the philanthropy. jennifer and cambridge. levels to do the philanthropy. jenniferand cambridge. richard in rugby, top of the morning to you. paul, i think you are on, and jennifer, you might be interested in what he has to say. paul, good morning. should we be reading the books that you recommend or should we be paying a quarter of $1 million to go down and look? shes a we be paying a quarter of $1 million to go down and look? as a historian and someone _ to go down and look? as a historian and someone that _ to go down and look? as a historian and someone that has _ to go down and look? as a historian and someone that has been - to go down and look? as a historian and someone that has been writing | and someone that has been writing and someone that has been writing and researching the titanic since the 19605 you will find out on all the 19605 you will find out on all the more about mass migration and the more about mass migration and the history of the ocean liner in the history of the ocean liner in the library then you diving on it. what do you think about this of tourism? it

what do you think about this of tourism? , ., , , tourism? it is a terrible, terrible tra . ed tourism? it is a terrible, terrible tragedy and _ tourism? it is a terrible, terrible tragedy and it — tourism? it is a terrible, terrible tragedy and it is _ tourism? it is a terrible, terrible tragedy and it is a _ tourism? it is a terrible, terrible tragedy and it is a tragedy - tourism? it is a terrible, terrible tragedy and it is a tragedy that l tourism? it is a terrible, terrible i tragedy and it is a tragedy that has been waiting to happen. since the russian submersible mere was used, big questions raised about the conditions of the vessel. back in the 905, and it is no longer here because it is in such poor condition, people paying to dive on the titanic and even got married on the titanic and even got married on the titanic... i the titanic and even got married on the titanic- - -_ the titanic... i read about that, es! it the titanic... i read about that, yes! it throws _ the titanic... i read about that, yes! it throws into _ the titanic... i read about that, yes! it throws into question - the titanic... i read about that, yes! it throws into question the effica . yes! it throws into question the efficacy- as _ yes! it throws into question the efficacy- as a — yes! it throws into question the efficacy. as a historical- yes! it throws into question the efficacy. as a historical society | yes! it throws into question the i efficacy. as a historical society we have long argued their work should be left alone as a grave. there have been arguments about this over the past. one of the workers for rms titanic, salvaged a lot of stuff which we consider was grave robbing, there are no bodies on the titanic but the bodies are there and they are in the ship, the bodies to over

time. it is a grave, 1500 people died and it should be respected as a grave. you can go and visit a grave site, you can look but please don't touch. but because we have the technology to send people down, we do not need to go down ourselves. we can explore formal remotely than we can explore formal remotely than we can from a small submersible such as titan. ~ ., ., ,., , , can from a small submersible such as titan. ~ ., ., , , ., titan. what about the museums that have items retrieved _ titan. what about the museums that have items retrieved from _ titan. what about the museums that have items retrieved from the - have items retrieved from the titanic? 1993, 15 times by a team of american researchers retrieving 800 items, tickets, suitcases, medicine bottles, which tell a social story about the people on the boat. tell a story about social class at the time. ., , ., , time. that is the argument but i would say _ time. that is the argument but i would say what _ time. that is the argument but i would say what can _ time. that is the argument but i would say what can you - time. that is the argument but i would say what can you learn i time. that is the argument but i i would say what can you learn from time. that is the argument but i - would say what can you learn from a

suitcase? what can you learn from a glass eyeball? it is suitcase? what can you learn from a glass eyeball?— glass eyeball? it is incredibly touching- _ glass eyeball? it is incredibly touching. but _ glass eyeball? it is incredibly touching. but do _ glass eyeball? it is incredibly touching. but do not - glass eyeball? it is incredibly touching. but do not forget, | glass eyeball? it is incredibly - touching. but do not forget, titanic almost from _ touching. but do not forget, titanic almost from the _ touching. but do not forget, titanic almost from the moment _ touching. but do not forget, titanic almost from the moment the - touching. but do not forget, titanic| almost from the moment the waves closed over her, the myth and legend began. the first film made about the titanic was in 1912 called lost on the titanic which featured one of the titanic which featured one of the survivors. the myth and legend has grown over time. i live in northern ireland, i am a historian for titanic belfast, the visitor centre, we do not have any artefacts at the visitor centre recovered from the ship. the titanic as part of the national curriculum here in northern ireland and that is as it should be because it helps children to understand about their past and the development of shipbuilding and marine engineering in northern ireland, very important part of the history of this country but we do

not need to go down and pillage the ship, we do not need to conduct... pillage. that is what happened. if you are for example ballard, he has long argued the back effectively has been destroyed, it is covered in plaques, the most spurious messages have been left on the ship, it's almost like graveyard graffiti. there's so many landings made on the vessel itself, the bridge structure has collapsed. it is absolutely disgraceful what has been going on and because it is in international waters, it is like the wild west. i have been offered dives partly from rms titanic in order to shut me up and get me on side, to stop voicing against what they were doing and i refuse for a number of reasons. firstly i do not want to be involved

in that and the condition of the equipment using was bad even back in the 905 and now you have titan, this is just a tourist attraction. it's just for people to have bragging rights to dive on the titanic, that is all it is, it is not about research. is all it is, it is not about research-— is all it is, it is not about research. �* ., , research. and ditto those people doinu research. and ditto those people doing space _ research. and ditto those people doing space tourism. _ research. and ditto those people doing space tourism. it - research. and ditto those people doing space tourism. it is - research. and ditto those people doing space tourism. it is a - doing space tourism. it is a terrible thing _ doing space tourism. it is a terrible thing that - doing space tourism. it is a l terrible thing that happened, doing space tourism. it is a - terrible thing that happened, these people were led to believe they were paying money for something that is a very safe system involved... i am fascinated — very safe system involved... i am fascinated to _ very safe system involved... i am fascinated to know _ very safe system involved... i am fascinated to know what - very safe system involved... i am fascinated to know what jennifer has fascinated to know whatjennifer has to say, there is strong stuff, pillage, and that face what can we possibly learn by seeing and also case or a glass i? jennifer injust a second. concentrate your mind is and what is happening up to 10am, it is important to hearfrom you.

speaking while visiting an ikea distribution centre in dartford the prime minister said he stole 100% on it and the economy is going to be ok but do feel reassured? —— said he is still 100%. 5% interest rates, a hike of 0.5%, can you take the pain or should the banks take more pressure? how will it affect you, the impact, what do you think about it? they want to have a recession so we do not have a recession, they want to make us poorer so they can make us richer. 5% and you are coming up at10am. make us richer. 5% and you are coming up at 10am. jennifer right now. listening to paul. amazing, really strong stuff from paul louden brown, i had not heard that you expressed so forcefully. i brown, i had not heard that you expressed so forcefully.- expressed so forcefully. i quite auree. i

expressed so forcefully. i quite agree- i am — expressed so forcefully. i quite agree. i am 70 _ expressed so forcefully. i quite agree. i am 70 and _ expressed so forcefully. i quite agree. i am 70 and when - expressed so forcefully. i quite agree. i am 70 and when i - expressed so forcefully. i quite agree. i am 70 and when i was| expressed so forcefully. i quite l agree. i am 70 and when i was 17 expressed so forcefully. i quite i agree. i am 70 and when i was 17 i was agree. i am 70 and when i was 17 i wasa— agree. i am 70 and when i was 17 i wasa hairdresserand agree. i am 70 and when i was 17 i was a hairdresserand i agree. i am 70 and when i was 17 i was a hairdresser and i used to do a very sad _ was a hairdresser and i used to do a very sad elderly lady whose fiance died on _ very sad elderly lady whose fiance died on the titanic, she never remarried. _ died on the titanic, she never remarried, she wore black all the time, _ remarried, she wore black all the time, she — remarried, she wore black all the time, she was very sombre and sad and she _ time, she was very sombre and sad and she hoped and prayed that no one would _ and she hoped and prayed that no one would ever— and she hoped and prayed that no one would ever look for it and they would — would ever look for it and they would leave him there to rest in peace _ would leave him there to rest in peace and — would leave him there to rest in peace and doing her hair every week until she _ peace and doing her hair every week until she died, but stayed with me and made — until she died, but stayed with me and made me think it should be a grave. _ and made me think it should be a grave. love — and made me think it should be a grave, love it. those people... you know, _ grave, love it. those people... you know. they— grave, love it. those people... you know, they died in tragic circumstances and he was one of the workers. _ circumstances and he was one of the workers. not — circumstances and he was one of the workers, not one of the rich and she wanted _ workers, not one of the rich and she wanted him — workers, not one of the rich and she wanted him laughter. and i pass that onto my— wanted him laughter. and i pass that onto my family and my children, let them _ onto my family and my children, let them rest _ onto my family and my children, let them rest in — onto my family and my children, let them rest in peace. —— she wanted him left _ them rest in peace. —— she wanted him left there. so much damage done

to it. him left there. so much damage done to it leave _ him left there. so much damage done to it. leave it, leave it alone. we cannot— to it. leave it, leave it alone. we cannot have _ to it. leave it, leave it alone. we cannot have any more people dying because _ cannot have any more people dying because of— cannot have any more people dying because of curiosity and greed and wanting _ because of curiosity and greed and wanting to — because of curiosity and greed and wanting to say i went down there and i did that _ wanting to say i went down there and i did that. so wanting to say i went down there and i did that. ., . ., ., i did that. so wrong. what about 2001 and paul— i did that. so wrong. what about 2001 and paul referred - i did that. so wrong. what about 2001 and paul referred to - i did that. so wrong. what about 2001 and paul referred to this? | 2001 and paul referred to this? daiba lubavitch and kimberly miller married a body submersible sat down on the bow of the titanic. i married a body submersible sat down on the bow of the titanic.— on the bow of the titanic. i think it's disgusting. _ on the bow of the titanic. i think it's disgusting. it _ on the bow of the titanic. i think it's disgusting. it should - on the bow of the titanic. i think it's disgusting. it should be - on the bow of the titanic. i think it's disgusting. it should be an i it's disgusting. it should be an abomination to human feelings. absolutely dreadful. it is supposed to be a _ absolutely dreadful. it is supposed to be a joyous occasion, not dancing on a grave — to be a joyous occasion, not dancing on a grave-— on a grave. jennifer, thank you. time to stop — on a grave. jennifer, thank you. time to stop exploring, - on a grave. jennifer, thank you. time to stop exploring, a - on a grave. jennifer, thank you. time to stop exploring, a mass| on a grave. jennifer, thank you. - time to stop exploring, a mass grave site, i am glad not survivors of the titanic were alive today to witness the scenes of the last five days because it would re—traumatise them. what it must be like for the families of the original victims who

stories will have been passed down and watching the media must have been haunting, that is a view from hannah. my father, an actor, lifelong titanic town but it is a graveyard and respect must be shown. the harlow and richard coming up. thank you to all of you. lucy, good morning. what a week of coverage it has been and there's lots to reflect upon. what about the exploring dander of the titanic, is it time to stop? i dander of the titanic, is it time to sto . ? ., , dander of the titanic, is it time to sto . ? ~ , , ., dander of the titanic, is it time to sto-? ~ , , ., , stop? i think it is. it should be left to rest. — stop? i think it is. it should be left to rest, we _ stop? i think it is. it should be left to rest, we know - stop? i think it is. it should be left to rest, we know what - stop? i think it is. it should be - left to rest, we know what happened to meet, we do not need to do any more trying to find out what happened. we know what happened. i understand want to keep an eye on it to see how it disintegrates over time but i do not think people should pay to go and see itjust to say they have seen it. to me, if we

had left the twin towers after that day when the accident happened and it was just a wreck site and people were offering tours to take people around to show them the wreckage and take them inside and charge them all that money, there will be a major uproar in that. it would never happen. it would not enter any one �*s mind to make money from that so how can that be the same for the titanic? i cannot see the justification. we know what happened, let it rest. is justification. we know what happened, let it rest. is there a suitable passage _ happened, let it rest. is there a suitable passage of _ happened, let it rest. is there a suitable passage of time? - happened, let it rest. is there a l suitable passage of time? plenty happened, let it rest. is there a - suitable passage of time? plenty of other suitable examples, 200, 300 years ago, back through the annals of time what we do this but it does not seem to be indecent so is it a matter of how recent it is? it could be but i think— matter of how recent it is? it could be but i think a _ matter of how recent it is? it could be but i think a lot _ matter of how recent it is? it could be but i think a lot of _ matter of how recent it is? it could be but i think a lot of it, _ matter of how recent it is? it could be but i think a lot of it, it - matter of how recent it is? it could be but i think a lot of it, it has - be but i think a lot of it, it has been glorified with the films.

everyone knows titanic because of the film, quite a lot of people would know that. there's a lot of stuff from history we do not know that has not been put into the film or glorified, the people are not that interested to go and look at it but i know people were comparing it to auschwitz. that was made a film and people go there now but people do not go there being happy, people go there to see what happened and have a completely different feeling. i do think it's because it has been romanticised, the titanic, that people want to go and see it and it is something that has happened 111 years ago. ijust do not think we should go there at all. years ago. i just do not think we should go there at all.— years ago. i just do not think we should go there at all. there are so man re should go there at all. there are so many grey areas — should go there at all. there are so many grey areas to _ should go there at all. there are so many grey areas to explore - should go there at all. there are so many grey areas to explore and - should go there at all. there are so l many grey areas to explore and katie has another point of view in west sussex. lucy, here is katie, katie,

there is lucy. katie, good morning, what do you think?— there is lucy. katie, good morning, what do you think? good morning. my feelin: is what do you think? good morning. my feeling is there _ what do you think? good morning. my feeling is there is _ what do you think? good morning. my feeling is there is the _ what do you think? good morning. my feeling is there is the titanic, - what do you think? good morning. my feeling is there is the titanic, it - feeling is there is the titanic, it is a fascinating story. and it is really— is a fascinating story. and it is really one _ is a fascinating story. and it is really one that in history will always — really one that in history will always be a fascinating story and i think— always be a fascinating story and i think as _ always be a fascinating story and i think as human beings we will always be interested in these types of tragedy— be interested in these types of tragedy and i suppose we teach history— tragedy and i suppose we teach history in— tragedy and i suppose we teach history in school. so we are encouraging our children to learn about— encouraging our children to learn about history and these stories and i about history and these stories and l have _ about history and these stories and l have just — about history and these stories and i have just recently, we have taken our children— i have just recently, we have taken our children to the mary rose experience. and yes, it was a massive — experience. and yes, it was a massive tragedy, there was a lot of loss of— massive tragedy, there was a lot of loss of life — massive tragedy, there was a lot of loss of life but at the same time,

my kids. — loss of life but at the same time, my kids, they were fascinated in the story— my kids, they were fascinated in the story of— my kids, they were fascinated in the story of the — my kids, they were fascinated in the story of the people on the ship and the woodcraft, the blacksmiths, the story of— the woodcraft, the blacksmiths, the story of henry viii, it is all... the _ story of henry viii, it is all... the same _ story of henry viii, it is all... the same for the titanic, you see the suitcase and it brings it to life. .,. , , the suitcase and it brings it to life. .. , , , ., the suitcase and it brings it to life. , , , ., ., , life. exactly. yes. it is an awful lot of tragedy _ life. exactly. yes. it is an awful lot of tragedy and _ life. exactly. yes. it is an awful lot of tragedy and i _ life. exactly. yes. it is an awful lot of tragedy and i get - life. exactly. yes. it is an awful lot of tragedy and i get that. i life. exactly. yes. it is an awful. lot of tragedy and i get that. but i think— lot of tragedy and i get that. but i think it's — lot of tragedy and i get that. but i think it's something that humans, we are interested in these stories and we always— are interested in these stories and we always will be.— we always will be. lastly, it is a aood we always will be. lastly, it is a good point? _ we always will be. lastly, it is a good point? i— we always will be. lastly, it is a good point? i get _ we always will be. lastly, it is a good point? i get that - we always will be. lastly, it is a good point? i get that but - we always will be. lastly, it is a good point? i get that but you | we always will be. lastly, it is a i good point? i get that but you can then sa if good point? i get that but you can then say if people _ good point? i get that but you can then say if people started - good point? i get that but you can then say if people started walking| then say if people started walking around the wreck of the twin towers, people have a morbid curiosity. would people not be an uproar that someone was walking around looking at people's... of the best passports

found, clothing, documents in all of the rubble. would that not have the same effect if you are walking around and you pick up something and 90, around and you pick up something and go, this was from someone killed inside those buildings? it was not allowed. people were not allowed near because it was dangerous. why have we not got the same mentality for the titanic? it is dangerous and no one should be going there. it is a completely _ no one should be going there. it is a completely different scenario, i completely agree, being at the bottom — completely agree, being at the bottom of the ocean. it is so difficult _ bottom of the ocean. it is so difficult knowing is there a certain length _ difficult knowing is there a certain length of— difficult knowing is there a certain length of time when it can suddenly click into _ length of time when it can suddenly click into it — length of time when it can suddenly click into it being something that is fascinating and we should teach our children? where is that line between — our children? where is that line between that and actually it is much too soon _ between that and actually it is much too soon and there are still people

affected _ too soon and there are still people affected by the story? it is a really — affected by the story? it is a really difficult one. but i can still— really difficult one. but i can still understand people's interest in it and — still understand people's interest in it and i— still understand people's interest in it and i certainly can understand the news — in it and i certainly can understand the news reports, the news coverage that we _ the news reports, the news coverage that we have had because of that, because _ that we have had because of that, because people are interested as a story _ because people are interested as a sto . �* ., ., because people are interested as a sto .�* ., ., "' story. i've got to say, the 9/11 memorial _ story. i've got to say, the 9/11 memorial museum _ story. i've got to say, the 9/11 memorial museum which - story. i've got to say, the 9/11 memorial museum which i - story. i've got to say, the 9/11 i memorial museum which i have story. i've got to say, the 9/11- memorial museum which i have not been too but i know people who have, respectfully, they have a crushed fire engine on display, they have certain artefacts because it highlights the humanity. these people were notjust statistics. somebody once said one death is a tragedy and a million deaths is a statistic, it was a light then and it is a lie now but we see that, we see that. we read those... when we look in those glass cabinets and we

see those artefacts.— see those artefacts. there's titanic lace ou see those artefacts. there's titanic place you can _ see those artefacts. there's titanic place you can go. _ see those artefacts. there's titanic place you can go, there _ see those artefacts. there's titanic place you can go, there is - see those artefacts. there's titanicj place you can go, there is artefacts from the titanic. when i was in school i was not taught about the titanic, i saw the film but i did not get taught about it in school, i read about it and that is how i understood it happened. but i think if we want to teach children, take them to the places, the museum is where it is safe, where people are not making lots of money by going to see it and being not making lots of money by going to see itand being in not making lots of money by going to see it and being in danger. these people that wanted to go down to seek more they could go to these places. seek more they could go to these laces. , . ., ., seek more they could go to these laces. , _, ., ., ,, i. ,., places. they could go. thank you so much. places. they could go. thank you so much- sorry — places. they could go. thank you so much- sorry to _ places. they could go. thank you so much. sorry to truncate _ places. they could go. thank you so much. sorry to truncate you, - places. they could go. thank you so much. sorry to truncate you, what l places. they could go. thank you so much. sorry to truncate you, what a j much. sorry to truncate you, what a great conversation.

full of brilliant points. i'm just full of brilliant points. i'm 'ust auoin to full of brilliant points. i'm 'ust gehg to do i full of brilliant points. i'm 'ust going to do one i full of brilliant points. i'm 'ust going to do one more i full of brilliant points. i'm 'ust going to do one more fork full of brilliant points. i'm just going to do one more for you, | full of brilliant points. i'm just. going to do one more for you, a full of brilliant points. i'm just - going to do one more for you, a very strong text came in just before we move to the next topic. "my irish granny was a cancelled passenger on the titanic, she was 19 and would have died as a third class passenger. she rarely talked about it, much to my annoyance, out of respect of the dead. the grave is —— the site is a mass grave, it should be left out of respect. that is from journalist sharon bell. may they rest in peace. we are talking about 5% now. lots of shock yesterday at the bank of england's decision to increase rates from 4.5% to 5% to tackle inflation. jeremy hunt is meeting with banks today, if you were there, would you scream and cry or would you say, keep on keeping on, no pain, no

gain? 5% and you, what does it mean? get in touch. here is karishma patel with the news. thank you, nicky. the co—founder of the company that built the titan submersible has rejected some of the criticisms over safety and certification. guillermo sohnlein says the sub was 14 years in development and went through rigorous safety checks. banks and building societies are meeting the chancellor, jeremy hunt, this morning. the government and lenders are under pressure to help those struggling with rising mortgage rates after the bank of england pushed the base rate of interest up to 5%. the electoral commission says around 14,000 people didn't vote in last month's local elections in england because they didn't have the right photo id. this is the first time voters in great britain

have had to show id. summer clothes and garden products pushed retail sales up in may. the office for national statistics says sales rose by 0.3%. i know lots of people have lots to say about this one, lots to think about, lots of shocks and worry. lots of shock yesterday at the bank of england's decision to increase rates from 4.5% to 5% to tackle inflation. we thought it was going to be 4.7 but 5%. the government has five pledges, you have 5%. the government and lenders are under pressure to do more to help those struggling.

chancellorjeremy hunt is meeting with banks and building societies at number 11 this morning. or maybe they have already met, but he is meeting this morning. speaking while visiting an ikea distribution centre in dartford yesterday, the prime minister rishi sunak said he's still "100% on it," and that the economy is going to be ok. but do you feel reassured? do you want the government to step in? bank of england governor andrew bailey admitted that the rise would cause "difficulty and pain." we have to get inflation back to target, you know? we have to have price stability. and we've raised interest rates to do that. we've seen strength in the economy. i think there is good news in this — the economy has been more resilient, it's been stronger, we've got very low unemployment — but it is leaving us with inflation looking much more persistent. we think inflation's going to come down markedly this year, but there are signs of it being more persistent, and ifelt it was right that we took this action — and decisive action — today. ladies and gentlemen, i give you the prime minister. i support the bank of england in

what they're doing and i point back to what i said earlier. what we're grappling with here as a country is something that many other countries are grappling with at the same time. so interest rates in america, in canada, in australia, in new zealand as i mentioned, all pretty similar to the interest rates here. interest rates in europe are at the highest they've been in 20 years, right — just to give you some context. and all central banks around the world are worried about the persistence of inflation and are taking steps to bring it down by raising interest rates. right. 08085 909693, and the text is 85058. linda yueh, oxford economist and author, great woman. hi. can you explain stuff? they are saying we might need a recession so we can avoid recession, and we all need to

be poorer so we are better off. iathihhztt be poorer so we are better off. what is that about? _ be poorer so we are better off. what is that about? how _ be poorer so we are better off. what is that about? how much _ be poorer so we are better off. thrust is that about? how much time do be poorer so we are better off. hs"isgt is that about? how much time do we have?! in a sense, the first thing to say is it is really hard to get inflation down, because as we know 80% of the inflation we are experiencing is actually from global factors, so that is rather out of the control of the government all the control of the government all the central bank, the bank of england. at the last time this happened in the 19705, when the fed, the us central bank, raised interest rates aggressively to bring inflation down, it's actually triggered a recession. so central banks today are treading a fine line, inflation at 8.7%, way above the 2% target, and the bank of england is raising interest rates to try to dampen demand, because if you

look at what is driving inflation it is things like the cost of air travel, recreational activities, so they are trying to dampen demand, which should bring prices down domestically, but if they do too much then just like domestically, but if they do too much thenjust like in domestically, but if they do too much then just like in the early 19805 it could take the economy into recession. it was only a couple of months ago that the forecasting proved, because we were facing a recession this year, but that a couple of months ago the forecast essentially said it would be stagnant but we would not face a recession, so it is pretty delicate and fragile and the central bank will find it really hard to find that interest rate thatjust dampens demand enough but does not tip the economy into recession.— economy into recession. people are sa in: it economy into recession. people are saying it could _ economy into recession. people are saying it could go — economy into recession. people are saying it could go to _ economy into recession. people are saying it could go to 696? _ economy into recession. people are saying it could go to 696? that - economy into recession. people are saying it could go to 696? that has. saying it could go to 696? that has chanced a saying it could go to 696? that has changed a lot. _ saying it could go to 696? that has changed a lot, i _ saying it could go to 696? that has changed a lot, i feel— saying it could go to 696? that has changed a lot, i feel like _ saying it could go to 696? that has changed a lot, i feel like every - changed a lot, i feel like every week the consensus goes, ok, now it is 5.75, now it is 5.5, i'm working

backwards obviously now because of the big rate increase yesterday to 5%, it is now shooting up to 6%. is 6% too high? this is very hard to know. before the 2008 banking crash, 5% was the average interest rate, i know it is a long time ago, but that is what the economy used to have as the basic cost of borrowing, but that was when the economy was growing at 2.5%. because growth has slowed down so much since the banking crash, what i call the neutral rate, the average rate, but does not depress the economy or stimulate prices, it is probably not 5% any more, it is probably closer to two or 3%, maybe 2.5%. in that context, 6% is very high because it suggests that by raising the cost of

borrowing the bank of england is trying to get it down just a bit, but it could be what tips the economy into recession. i but it could be what tips the economy into recession. i wonder how much is political. _ economy into recession. i wonder how much is political, because _ economy into recession. i wonder how much is political, because a _ economy into recession. i wonder how much is political, because a large - much is political, because a large proportion of the people with mortgages are swing voters, they are electoral gold dust, and the politicians must be acutely minded of that. i politicians must be acutely minded of that. ., , ., of that. i am sure with the general election looming, _ of that. i am sure with the general election looming, quite _ of that. i am sure with the general election looming, quite a - of that. i am sure with the general election looming, quite a lot - of that. i am sure with the general election looming, quite a lot of. election looming, quite a lot of focus... we know the prime minister has said housing inflation is what we should judge him on, so if inflation does not get down to around 5%, he will be quite worried. of the people who hold mortgages, they are among the most vulnerable to the increase in interest rates

and the cost of borrowing. we discussed with the bank of england —— we discuss what at the bank of england are trying to do, but it is also what the treasury can do. he used to get relief on mortgage interest payments, so the chancellor has ruled that out, he is meeting with the banks because the banks had agreed not to impose new affordability tests, or most of them have come on people who need to refinance fixed rate mortgages. so they are meant to be very careful in not repossessing homes. but a step further would be to say, listen, in places like the us and the uk, or a couple of decades, you actually got... you paid less tax because your mortgage interest payments was

upsetin your mortgage interest payments was upset in your taxes, and it is fiscal policy that would help the most vulnerable households and people. and i think as we face this, that may well be by the focus turns, and if that is politically helpful, great, it is more likely to happen, in my view. great, it is more likely to happen, in my view-— in my view. meanwhile, all those --eole in my view. meanwhile, all those people looking — in my view. meanwhile, all those people looking for _ in my view. meanwhile, all those people looking for wage - in my view. meanwhile, all those| people looking for wage increases because they were poorer than they were and understandably they feel they have historically been underpaid and want to catch up, they feel they are getting a terrible deal, and junior doctors in england, we are hearing, will strike for five days from july 13 in what is thought to be the longest single period of industrial action in the history of the health service, as described by the health service, as described by the british medical association. this isjunior doctors the british medical association. this is junior doctors striking for “p this is junior doctors striking for up to five days from july the 13th.

it is thought to be the longest single period of industrial action in the history of the health service. more on this on the bbc news website and on radio 5 live. an apposite story for what you are talking about. riz malik, mortgage adviser, in a second, and sophie erin bell per? 5% and you. —— sophie in belper. it erin bell per? 596 and you. -- sophie in bel-er. , . ., ., in belper. it is life changing for us, we in belper. it is life changing for us. we have — in belper. it is life changing for us, we have had _ in belper. it is life changing for us, we have had our— in belper. it is life changing for us, we have had our renewal. in belper. it is life changing for| us, we have had our renewalfor october with a fixed rate coming to an end, it is going up 500 and 50p a month, an obscene amount for normal working people. how can they expect people to afford that on top of everything else that has gone up in price? everything else that has gone up in hrice? ., , .,' . everything else that has gone up in hrice? ., , . everything else that has gone up in price?— telli price? how is it affecting you? tell me more- — price? how is it affecting you? tell me more- i'm _ price? how is it affecting you? tell me more. i'm currently— price? how is it affecting you? tell me more. i'm currently on - price? how is it affecting you? tell i me more. i'm currently on maternity

leave, i will have to finish maternity early to go back to work to fund it, then how on earth do we afford childcare? that is another argument. we will manage because you have two, but i don't know the answer, obviously inflation has to come down in some way but it is affecting everyday people who go to work and have worked hard to own their own homes. hots work and have worked hard to own their own homes.— work and have worked hard to own their own homes. how much will it be auoin u- a their own homes. how much will it be going up a month? — their own homes. how much will it be going up a month? £550. _ their own homes. how much will it be going up a month? £550. that - their own homes. how much will it be going up a month? £550. that is - their own homes. how much will it be going up a month? £550. that is like| going up a month? £550. that is like havin: a going up a month? £550. that is like having a holiday _ going up a month? £550. that is like having a holiday every _ going up a month? 555: that is like having a holiday every month, financially. the having a holiday every month, financially-— having a holiday every month, financiall . �* . ., ., ., financially. a life changing amount. the vice there _ financially. a life changing amount. the vice there are _ financially. a life changing amount. the vice there are all— financially. a life changing amount. the vice there are all these - financially. a life changing amount. i the vice there are all these murmurs that they are giving us a slight recession so we avoid a recession, we need to spend less and be a bit poorer, there is a lot in the paper from people who are speculating. andrew bailey has vehemently denied

they are trying to precipitate a recession, but meanwhile i wonder how many people on the monetary policy committee have a mortgage, there is the question. what do you think? do you think they are in touch? ., . . think? do you think they are in touch? ., ., ., , . , touch? not at all, effectively you had said this _ touch? not at all, effectively you had said this is _ touch? not at all, effectively you had said this is as _ touch? not at all, effectively you had said this is as a _ touch? not at all, effectively you had said this is as a result - touch? not at all, effectively you had said this is as a result of - had said this is as a result of people asking for pay rises, but how can people not to ask for pay rises when everything else is going up in price? all food shop, people have to earn more to pay for everything else thatis earn more to pay for everything else that is going up in price. it is a never—ending cycle. we had to pay and we had to ask for more money otherwise everyone will be poor. they are completely out of touch with reality because it does not affect them. with reality because it does not affect them-—

affect them. diane in bristol? before this — affect them. diane in bristol? before this craziness - affect them. diane in bristol? before this craziness of - affect them. diane in bristol? before this craziness of the i affect them. diane in bristol? l before this craziness of the cost affect them. diane in bristol? - before this craziness of the cost of living _ before this craziness of the cost of living crisis. — before this craziness of the cost of living crisis, our mortgage wasjust over £800, — living crisis, our mortgage wasjust over £800, now our mortgage has gone up over £800, now our mortgage has gone up too, _ over £800, now our mortgage has gone up too, before this increase, £1319. we are _ up too, before this increase, £1319. we are struggling to make that payment every month. i contacted the mortgage _ payment every month. i contacted the mortgage provider and asked for some help and _ mortgage provider and asked for some help and basically all they would do was for— help and basically all they would do was for two months let us pay £1000, but unfortunately our accounts would io but unfortunately our accounts would go into _ but unfortunately our accounts would go into arrears. i'm really worried that this — go into arrears. i'm really worried that this new rate that has gone up yesterday— that this new rate that has gone up yesterday will finish us. i don't yesterday will finish us. idon't know— yesterday will finish us. idon't know how— yesterday will finish us. i don't know how we will pay our mortgage next month. my husband is a builder,

as you _ next month. my husband is a builder, as you know. — next month. my husband is a builder, as you know, there is nothing going on in _ as you know, there is nothing going on in the _ as you know, there is nothing going on in the building trades, nothing for him _ on in the building trades, nothing for him to— on in the building trades, nothing for him to go and do. he has had literally— for him to go and do. he has had literally no — for him to go and do. he has had literally no work at all. it is really. _ literally no work at all. it is really, really worrying. when you sa finish really, really worrying. when you say finish you _ really, really worrying. when you say finish you off, _ really, really worrying. when you say finish you off, that _ really, really worrying. when you say finish you off, that is - really, really worrying. when you say finish you off, that is awful. i say finish you off, that is awful. selling the house, moving, what? the only thing we can do is sell our house. — only thing we can do is sell our house. but— only thing we can do is sell our house, but then we won't have enough money— house, but then we won't have enough money in _ house, but then we won't have enough money in the _ house, but then we won't have enough money in the equity to buy something else. money in the equity to buy something else i_ money in the equity to buy something else. i literally do not know what we are _ else. i literally do not know what we are going to do, it is scary. i suffer— we are going to do, it is scary. i suffer with _ we are going to do, it is scary. i suffer with my mental health, i have bipolar. _ suffer with my mental health, i have bipolar. this— suffer with my mental health, i have bipolar, this is pushing me into such— bipolar, this is pushing me into such a — bipolar, this is pushing me into such a low— bipolar, this is pushing me into such a low that i do not know howl will get _ such a low that i do not know howl will get out — such a low that i do not know howl will get out of it. riz such a low that i do not know how i will get out of it.— will get out of it. riz, riz malik, a mortgage _ will get out of it. riz, riz malik,

a mortgage adviser. _ will get out of it. riz, riz malik, a mortgage adviser. hi. - will get out of it. riz, riz malik, a mortgage adviser. hi. you i will get out of it. riz, riz malik, i a mortgage adviser. hi. you must will get out of it. riz, riz malik, - a mortgage adviser. hi. you must be hearing from lots of people like diane in bristol and sophie in belper. are they right to do this? you are a mortgage advisor but you have a great knowledge of economics, if inflation is coming down, do you think maybe they should have waited? two members of the monetary policy committee voted to keep it where it is, i wonder if this was the right decision? , , ., , decision? the issue we have is we understand _ decision? the issue we have is we understand there _ decision? the issue we have is we understand there is _ decision? the issue we have is we understand there is an _ decision? the issue we have is we| understand there is an inflationary problem in the united kingdom, nobody is disputing that, the problem is that previous interest rate rises have not fully impacted the uk economy. even for the mortgages i have done in the first part of the year, people whose payments are going up by up to £500 a month, for them to change their discretionary spending and for that to feed into the economy takes some

time, to these consecutive rate rises, all they will do in my opinion is compound the issue, so we will get to a very bad stage and all i can see going forward is this country tipping into recession, because economic output is not increasing or anything like that, it will come to a point where people will come to a point where people will be asking for wage increases and the companies are saying, sorry, business is not good at the moment, they will start reducing workforce, you will see a rise in unemployment and that will be a key barometer for interest rates to start coming down. linda yueh, economist, what is your opinion? someone from the conservatives was on channel 4 news last night and the conservative party ask them to go on to the news and talk about stuff like this, he

said the bank of england are asleep at the wheel and some ofjeremy hunt's advisors were quoted as criticising the bank of england for not going soon enough and then being too dovish, what do you think of this, is it buckpassing or is it valid? i this, is it buckpassing or is it valid? ., , this, is it buckpassing or is it valid? ~i , ,., valid? i think there is some validity and _ valid? i think there is some validity and i _ valid? i think there is some validity and i think - valid? i think there is some validity and i think the - valid? i think there is some i validity and i think the governor valid? i think there is some - validity and i think the governor of the bank of england andrew bailey has said himself that their forecasting models need to be re—examined, so one of the reasons why they were a bit slow to act and did not... halfa why they were a bit slow to act and did not... half a percentage point is a big increase, we have heard the on people in mortgages, it is astounding. other central banks went bigger earlier, the bank of england has been much more variable and even earlier on they were saying the reason is because they believe inflation was transitory, meaning it was temporary, it would not become sticky and embedded into the cost of

business. that isn't right, we know inflation is more persistent and thatis inflation is more persistent and that is what triggered the bigger rate increases. so some of the examination of what is guiding their decision is certainly important and is one of the things the bank of england does not do it as it does not actually tell you where they think interest rates should be, so the us central bank actually has every single member on an anonymous basis, they ask these rate setters, where do you think these rates will be? there is disagreement, you pointed out two external members of the mpc, both economics professors at the lse, wanted to hold rates. then we would have a clear picture as to the disagreement, that could help improve the process and forecasting, because forecasting is

tough. there is an old joke by a good economist, economic forecasting makes astrology look respectable. have you got any more jokes? we makes astrology look respectable. have you got any morejokes? we need jokes at the moment! you have you got any more 'okes? we need jokes at the moment!_ jokes at the moment! you laugh or ou c , jokes at the moment! you laugh or you cry. right? _ jokes at the moment! you laugh or you cry. right? the _ jokes at the moment! you laugh or you cry, right? the edinburgh - jokes at the moment! you laugh or. you cry, right? the edinburgh fringe is cominu you cry, right? the edinburgh fringe is coming up! _ you cry, right? the edinburgh fringe is coming up! ltut— you cry, right? the edinburgh fringe is coming up! but that _ you cry, right? the edinburgh fringe is coming up! but that says - you cry, right? the edinburgh fringe is coming up! but that says it - you cry, right? the edinburgh fringe is coming up! but that says it all, i is coming up! but that says it all, the astrology thing. richard at nottingham, and d in banbury, dawn in banwell and dave in kent, hello, everyone. dave, not your real name, hello. what is your take? i just hello. what is your take? i 'ust feel the banki hello. what is your take? i 'ust feel the bank of i hello. what is your take? i 'ust feel the bank of england i hello. what is your take? i just feel the bank of england and i hello. what is your take? ijust feel the bank of england and the people _ feel the bank of england and the people running it has no real concept _ people running it has no real concept of real life. i work three

jobs, _ concept of real life. i work three jobs. my— concept of real life. i work three jobs, my mortgage started 13 months a-o, jobs, my mortgage started 13 months ago, £1700, at the latest increase it went _ ago, £1700, at the latest increase it went up — ago, £1700, at the latest increase it went up to 2850. i dread to think what _ it went up to 2850. i dread to think what the _ it went up to 2850. i dread to think what the next one will be. i am just keeping _ what the next one will be. i am just keeping an— what the next one will be. i am just keeping an eye out for the postman and i_ keeping an eye out for the postman and i hope — keeping an eye out for the postman and i hope he walks past my house —— it went _ and i hope he walks past my house —— it went up _ and i hope he walks past my house —— it went up to— and i hope he walks past my house —— it went up to 2850. theyjust don't care _ it went up to 2850. theyjust don't care the — it went up to 2850. theyjust don't care. the mortgage company does not care _ care. the mortgage company does not care rishi _ care. the mortgage company does not care. rishi talks about all of these options. _ care. rishi talks about all of these options, we are trying to encourage the lenders— options, we are trying to encourage the lenders to give you options, there _ the lenders to give you options, there are — the lenders to give you options, there are no options. you are a prisoner— there are no options. you are a prisoner in _ there are no options. you are a prisoner in your own... ijust don't really— prisoner in your own... ijust don't really know— prisoner in your own... ijust don't really know what to say. you can't remortgage because they stress

tested _ remortgage because they stress tested you at your initial figure and if— tested you at your initial figure and if you _ tested you at your initial figure and if you went back to them now and said you _ and if you went back to them now and said you would like a mortgage at £2850 _ said you would like a mortgage at £2850 a _ said you would like a mortgage at £2850 a month, they would look at your earnings and laugh at you, so why do— your earnings and laugh at you, so why do they— your earnings and laugh at you, so why do they think it is acceptable to put— why do they think it is acceptable to put it — why do they think it is acceptable to put it up to that level and think you can _ to put it up to that level and think you can survive? plus utilities and council— you can survive? plus utilities and council tax. — you can survive? plus utilities and counciltax, plus you can survive? plus utilities and council tax, plus food has gone up by about— council tax, plus food has gone up by about 20%. my food bill has probably— by about 20%. my food bill has probably gone up by about £40 or £50 a week— probably gone up by about £40 or £50 a week for— probably gone up by about £40 or £50 a week for four of us. i don't know the answer~ — a week for four of us. i don't know the answer. lots of sound bites from the answer. lots of sound bites from the government, and rishi. i suffer from _ the government, and rishi. i suffer from mental health pretty badly, i listen _ from mental health pretty badly, i listen to— from mental health pretty badly, i listen to your show yesterday, maybe it is not _ listen to your show yesterday, maybe it is not a _ listen to your show yesterday, maybe it is not a good thing because it exacerbates my mental health state but i was _ exacerbates my mental health state but i was just crying.

exacerbates my mental health state but i wasjust crying. i don't want to do— but i wasjust crying. i don't want to do it _ but i wasjust crying. i don't want to do it any— but i wasjust crying. i don't want to do it any more. where do we get the help? _ to do it any more. where do we get the help? it— to do it any more. where do we get the help? it is all right these guys chatting _ the help? it is all right these guys chatting to each other today, but what _ chatting to each other today, but what will — chatting to each other today, but what will happen next? probably nothing — what will happen next? probably nothinu. ., ,, ., , what will happen next? probably nothin.. ., ~' ., , ., nothing. yeah. i know exactly what ou mean nothing. yeah. i know exactly what you mean about — nothing. yeah. i know exactly what you mean about there _ nothing. yeah. i know exactly what you mean about there are - nothing. yeah. i know exactly what you mean about there are some i nothing. yeah. i know exactly what i you mean about there are some things that... news comes on and you think, let's turn over and watch the repair shop. you know what i mean? i just shop. you know what i mean? i 'ust find a way. — shop. you know what i mean? i 'ust find a way. like fl shop. you know what i mean? i 'ust find a way, like you i shop. you know what i mean? i 'ust find a way, like you said, i shop. you know what i mean? i 'ust find a way, like you said, try i shop. you know what i mean? ijust find a way, like you said, try to het find a way, like you said, try to get yourself out of that sense of reality— get yourself out of that sense of reality for— get yourself out of that sense of reality for a bit, but when you have escaped _ reality for a bit, but when you have escaped for— reality for a bit, but when you have escaped for a little bit it is the same — escaped for a little bit it is the same old _ escaped for a little bit it is the same old story the next day, whatever— same old story the next day, whatever you do. the house has been for sale _ whatever you do. the house has been for sale for—

whatever you do. the house has been for sale for six months, lots of viewing — for sale for six months, lots of viewing but people can't afford it, if you _ viewing but people can't afford it, if you keep putting the rates up, people _ if you keep putting the rates up, people can't afford it. we will end ”p people can't afford it. we will end up with— people can't afford it. we will end up with a — people can't afford it. we will end up with a recession, with a crash. we will— up with a recession, with a crash. we will end — up with a recession, with a crash. we will end up on the street. they don't _ we will end up on the street. they don't care — we will end up on the street. they don't care. white is rishi care? he didnt— don't care. white is rishi care? he didn't care — don't care. white is rishi care? he didn't care during covid when he left 8 _ didn't care during covid when he left 8 million directors by the wayside _ left 8 million directors by the wayside. very good sound bites but nothing _ wayside. very good sound bites but nothing ever happens, sadly. let me brina in nothing ever happens, sadly. let me bring injordan- _ nothing ever happens, sadly. let me bring in jordan. hello. _ nothing ever happens, sadly. let me bring in jordan. hello. what - nothing ever happens, sadly. let me bring in jordan. hello. what about i bring in jordan. hello. what about dave's call? _ bring in jordan. hello. what about dave's call? dave, _ bring in jordan. hello. what about dave's call? dave, i— bring in jordan. hello. what about dave's call? dave, ifeel_ bring in jordan. hello. what about dave's call? dave, i feel like - bring in jordan. hello. what about dave's call? dave, ifeel like if- bring in jordan. hello. what about dave's call? dave, ifeel like if i i dave's call? dave, ifeel like if! was there. _ dave's call? dave, ifeel like if! was there. i— dave's call? dave, ifeel like if! was there, i want _ dave's call? dave, ifeel like if! was there, i want to _ dave's call? dave, ifeel like if! was there, i want to give - dave's call? dave, ifeel like if! was there, i want to give you i dave's call? dave, ifeel like if! was there, i want to give you a | was there, i want to give you a great big hug, and i am sure everybody listening will want to do the same. there are millions of people in this country, everybody

who has a mortgage is affected by this right now and what the government is not digesting and the governor of the bank of england is not digesting is in the real world we do not earn the sort of money that he earns, and the only people that he earns, and the only people that seem to have a voice earn, so their take on this is extraordinarily difficult. we have a prime minister who is a billionaire, the governor of the bank of england and all of its people who sit on that board and make those decisions, none of them are sitting there with a £350,000 mortgage wondering how they will pay it next month, it is not affecting them in the same way. sorry, i'm sitting outside because i get a better signal, i live in the countryside outside bristol, we never get helicopters. go away! you

think they do _ never get helicopters. go away! you think they do not understand, they are not in the real world? thea;t are not in the realworld? they genuinely _ are not in the realworld? they genuinely don't _ are not in the real world? the: genuinely don't understand. are not in the real world? the genuinely don't understand. just are not in the real world? t"i21 genuinely don't understand. just a couple of points i want to make when the blasted helicopter is out of the way, firstly i think it was on question time last night, similar setup on the panel, a lovely, interesting group of individuals but one of the commentators there said it is only 5%, remember when it was 14%? yes, but mortgages back then were maybe £50,000, £70,000, maybe £100,000 if you were really wealthy and going for a house. mortgages today, my son is one of these, his mortgage is a few hundred thousand

pounds, which also means that every time the rates go up, they go up astronomically and it becomes incredibly difficult to afford. no wonder people are suffering more and more from mental health issues. i think it was rishi sunak who said interest rates all across europe and america, it is at a similar level, we are in this together. we are not. if you look at these other countries they are not trying to make money out of every person buying a house with a mortgage, if you look at holland, you will have a mortgage that might be for lots of money but your mortgage rate is not fixed in order to tempt you enhance rip you off and then completely fleece you because the government has rates that are way through the roof, their interest rates are for the lifetime of your mortgage so you knew of ——

you know every month you can budget for the rest of your life, and those rates are set very low at about 1.5% or 2%, rates are set very low at about 1.5% or2%, regardless rates are set very low at about 1.5% or 2%, regardless of what the banking system is doing. this country has it so wrong. there will be houses that will come up in what are called fire sales because people lose their homes, there will be repossessions. who will buy then? the wealthy people because they have the cash to buy at auction. loads the wealthy people because they have the cash to buy at auction.— the cash to buy at auction. loads in the, that the cash to buy at auction. loads in the. that was _ the cash to buy at auction. loads in the, that was very _ the cash to buy at auction. loads in the, that was very rich _ the cash to buy at auction. loads in the, that was very rich in _ the cash to buy at auction. loads in the, that was very rich in content, . the, that was very rich in content, can i say. we heard earlier about thejunior can i say. we heard earlier about the junior doctors strike, hugh can i say. we heard earlier about thejunior doctors strike, hugh pym is there to tell us more, our esteemed health editor. hello. more junior doctor strikes, this is a big one? , , ., ., ., one? this is in england, we have had three rounds — one? this is in england, we have had three rounds of _ one? this is in england, we have had three rounds ofjunior_ one? this is in england, we have had three rounds ofjunior doctors - three rounds of junior doctors strike — three rounds ofjunior doctors strike so— three rounds ofjunior doctors

strike so far, it is overpaid. you may— strike so far, it is overpaid. you may remember the arguments, the junior— may remember the arguments, the junior doctor said to be 135% phased in to compensate for the effect of inflation — in to compensate for the effect of inflation going back to 2008 —— the strike _ inflation going back to 2008 —— the strike is— inflation going back to 2008 —— the strike is over pay. health secretary steve _ strike is over pay. health secretary steve barclay said it was unaffordable and unacceptable, it went backwards and forwards and the bma said _ went backwards and forwards and the bma said we are not wedded to figures — bma said we are not wedded to figures but it has to be better than the 5% _ figures but it has to be better than the 5% of— figures but it has to be better than the 5% of the two other health unions — the 5% of the two other health unions. we had three rounds of strikes. — unions. we had three rounds of strikes, one of which was four days, coming _ strikes, one of which was four days, coming after — strikes, one of which was four days, coming after a bank holiday. the difference — coming after a bank holiday. the difference this time is it will be five days— difference this time is it will be five days and they say it is the longest — five days and they say it is the longest strike of its kind in the history— longest strike of its kind in the history of— longest strike of its kind in the history of the nhs, affecting all kinds _ history of the nhs, affecting all kinds of— history of the nhs, affecting all kinds of care from july the 13th. so an escalation of their action, there have _ an escalation of their action, there have not— an escalation of their action, there have not really been talks between the british medical association, the junior— the british medical association, the junior doctors union and the government for a little while. both

sides— government for a little while. both sides seem fairly certain that their positions — sides seem fairly certain that their hositions. , , ., ,., , positions. this is about, they claim, catching _ positions. this is about, they claim, catching up— positions. this is about, they claim, catching up on - positions. this is about, they claim, catching up on what i positions. this is about, they i claim, catching up on what they positions. this is about, they - claim, catching up on what they have fallen behind on in terms of pay? they call it restoration, they say if you _ they call it restoration, they say if you look— they call it restoration, they say if you look at pay going all the way back to _ if you look at pay going all the way back to 2008, it has fallen by a quarter— back to 2008, it has fallen by a quarter or— back to 2008, it has fallen by a quarter or more in real terms once you have _ quarter or more in real terms once you have accounted for inflation, they say— you have accounted for inflation, they sayjunior doctors are highly stressed. — they sayjunior doctors are highly stressed, it is a very difficult job at the _ stressed, it is a very difficult job at the moment, people are leaving, we need _ at the moment, people are leaving, we need to— at the moment, people are leaving, we need to doctors and therefore it needs— we need to doctors and therefore it needs something that says from the government that we value what you are doing _ government that we value what you are doing and will help cover some of the _ are doing and will help cover some of the impact of inflation. the government and steve backley's point of view _ government and steve backley's point of view is _ government and steve backley's point of view is it _ government and steve backley's point of view is it is a difficult time for public— of view is it is a difficult time for public finances, as health unions — for public finances, as health unions have accepted 5%, we will talk about— unions have accepted 5%, we will talk about it few other things on the fringes in terms of working conditions but going much above 5% if at all— conditions but going much above 5% if at all will — conditions but going much above 5% if at all will be really hard in the

current climate. interestingly the most _ current climate. interestingly the most senior doctors, the consultants, are balloting on industrial action too and we get the result— industrial action too and we get the result next— industrial action too and we get the result next week. and to add one more, _ result next week. and to add one more. the — result next week. and to add one more, the royal college of nursing has balloted again on strike action which _ has balloted again on strike action which may— has balloted again on strike action which may or may not get the yes vote and — which may or may not get the yes vote and we will learn about but early _ vote and we will learn about but early next — vote and we will learn about but early next week. like vote and we will learn about but early next week.— to mortgages, dave, are you still with us? you are an everyman, it is notjust with us? you are an everyman, it is not just you, with us? you are an everyman, it is notjust you, hundreds of with us? you are an everyman, it is not just you, hundreds of thousands of people, we have got our mortgage advisor as well. are you still with us? have we lost him? he has gone, he has gone! have you been to a mortgage adviser, have you spoken to the bank, your building society, dave and tom? have you reached out

to get advice? i dave and tom? have you reached out to get advice?— to get advice? i have indeed. even if ou to get advice? i have indeed. even if you wanted _ to get advice? i have indeed. even if you wanted to _ to get advice? i have indeed. even if you wanted to remortgage - to get advice? i have indeed. even if you wanted to remortgage them | if you wanted to remortgage them with my particular lender you have to, what is the word... do it as a brand—new application so you cannot change product. therefore they will look at every single part of your circumstances again and it will not take any of the boxes so you are literally a mortgage prisoner because she cannot do anything with your current lender because the situation you are in at the moment, you therefore cannot move on! you are stuck! you know? ijust don't see... the only way out is to sell but people are not coming through the door to buy your property and cannot afford to buy your property. you are literally stuck. it is just like banging your head against a brick wall, sadly.—

brick wall, sadly. yeah, it is a treat brick wall, sadly. yeah, it is a great call. — brick wall, sadly. yeah, it is a great call, dave. _ brick wall, sadly. yeah, it is a great call, dave. linda, - brick wall, sadly. yeah, it is a great call, dave. linda, are i brick wall, sadly. yeah, it is a i great call, dave. linda, are you there? i am! — great call, dave. linda, are you there? i am! rishi— great call, dave. linda, are you there? i am! rishi sunak- great call, dave. linda, are you there? i am! rishi sunak says i great call, dave. linda, are you| there? i am! rishi sunak says it great call, dave. linda, are you i there? i am! rishi sunak says it is there? i am! rishi sunak says it is the same all— there? i am! rishi sunak says it is the same all over— there? i am! rishi sunak says it is the same all over europe - there? i am! rishi sunak says it is the same all over europe but - there? i am! rishi sunak says it is the same all over europe but it i there? i am! rishi sunak says it is the same all over europe but it is| the same all over europe but it is not quite, is it?— not quite, is it? 8096 inflation is aloball not quite, is it? 8096 inflation is globally generated, _ not quite, is it? 8096 inflation is globally generated, that - not quite, is it? 8096 inflation is globally generated, that is - not quite, is it? 8096 inflation is. globally generated, that is higher than what it is for other major economies for a number of reasons. we import— economies for a number of reasons. we import more stuff but also because — we import more stuff but also because of the way our energy is dependent, the way our electricity is imported. the other thing to bear in mind _ is imported. the other thing to bear in mind is— is imported. the other thing to bear in mind is we — is imported. the other thing to bear in mind is we have had quite a lot of increase — in mind is we have had quite a lot of increase in core inflation so that— of increase in core inflation so that is— of increase in core inflation so that is the _ of increase in core inflation so that is the inflation, once you strip—

that is the inflation, once you strip out— that is the inflation, once you strip out energy and volatile things like food _ strip out energy and volatile things like food prices, energy, so of course — like food prices, energy, so of course those items really affect people's — course those items really affect people's cost of living but what the bank is _ people's cost of living but what the bank is looking at its core inflation _ bank is looking at its core inflation and this is the same thing the european central bank and the us central— the european central bank and the us central bank looks out. they are 'ust central bank looks out. they are just trying — central bank looks out. they are just trying to work out how much of the inflation has become in for instance — the inflation has become in for instance your airline ticket price and that— instance your airline ticket price and that is— instance your airline ticket price and that is what is causing the used k to see _ and that is what is causing the used k to see it— and that is what is causing the used k to see it is— and that is what is causing the used k to see it is similar to other countries _ k to see it is similar to other countries because all other countries because all other countries have that increase but in terms _ countries have that increase but in terms of _ countries have that increase but in terms of the cost of living crisis it is the — terms of the cost of living crisis it is the headline inflation rate staying — it is the headline inflation rate staying at 8.7%, that is not like the us— staying at 8.7%, that is not like the us and _ staying at 8.7%, that is not like the us and continental europe where headline _ the us and continental europe where headline inflation is coming down. when _ headline inflation is coming down. when politicians are selective with figures it is a hostage to fortune, some would argue, that is what is happening. linda, thank you. going to be calls, calls until 11. it is

10:35am. we have got the news now from karishma patel. nicky, thank you. junior doctors in england will strive for a five day since july to 13, thought to be the longest single period of industrial action from the health service. banks and building societies have been meeting with the chancellor. jeremy hunt is expected to ask about offering tailored support for those struggling. the co—founder of the company — that built the titan submersible — has rejected some of the criticisms over safety and certification. guillermo sohnlein says the sub was 14 years in development — and went through rigorous safety checks. experts have raised concerns about the vessels. the winners of the young games designers baftas had been announced. ideas announced

include an accessible game for those who are deaf or blind and another one with soap deemed super villains. now the sport with shourjo sarkar. the second day of the women's ashes test between england and australia is due to start at 11 o'clock. at trent bridge for us, is elly oldroyd. cloudy skies overhead but the weather is set fair, australia resuming on 328—7, england did really well building yesterday particularly with sophie ecclestone and laurent feiler making a terrific debut getting rid of key batters in the strong australian line—up but england will hope they can get the final three and if they do early this morning they will give themselves a great chance when it comes to batting later. we are under way at 11am. you can follow ball—by—ball commentary on sports extra. aston villa have announced that captainjohn mcginn has signed a new long—term contract with the club. the scotland midfielder has committed himself to villa

until 2027. victor wembanyama has targeted winning an nba championship ring after the san antonio spurs chose him as the number one overall pick in the 2023 draft. the french teenager is regarded as one of the biggest prospects in basketball. and in rugby league, the versatile forward jarrod o'connor has signed a new three—year contract with the leeds rhinos. 596

5% interest rates, this is 5% and you. 5% and richard in nottingham, samantha in the isle of wight, good morning to all of you, happy friday. vicki, 5% and you? it is an awful lot, something i cannot even indulge myself to think about at the moment. my myself to think about at the moment. my mortgage comes up for renewal about april time. you know, it actually gives me palpitations just discussing it and i have no confidence whatsoever injeremy hunt, rishi sunak. dare i say it, even the governor of the bank of england? ijust even the governor of the bank of england? i just feel even the governor of the bank of england? ijust feel it is outrageously out of touch, they cannot relate to anybody earning a meagre wage, ijust cannot relate to anybody earning a meagre wage, i just feel like cannot relate to anybody earning a meagre wage, ijust feel like it's not going to affect them, we are not even on the radio, they do not even see people like us properly. {bitten

see people like us properly. given that it gives _ see people like us properly. given that it gives you _ see people like us properly. given that it gives you palpitations - that it gives you palpitations talking about it, i completely get that, you are very brave to talk about it to millions of people so you are doing it! laughter. you are doing brilliantly, you are just talking to me! how is it affecting you, everything? everything has gone up massively, food, fuel, bills, you just take one month at a time. you live day to day. and you know, we are a family of people that got ourselves educated, my son who does not live here any more is a junior doctor. i would like to know where in the world it is ok for a junior doctor to earn £14 an hour so you know, in terms of embracing society, trying to do the right thing, getting an

education, working hard, that is enough. but really, where does it leave you unless you are looking constantly, trying to strive for betterment and achieve something over and above where you came from and in many cases, civil society are stacked against people like us, without wishing to sound too dramatic. the without wishing to sound too dramatic. �* ., , ., without wishing to sound too dramatic. ., , ., ., ., dramatic. a dampener on aspiration is a aood dramatic. a dampener on aspiration is a good talking — dramatic. a dampener on aspiration is a good talking point. _ dramatic. a dampener on aspiration is a good talking point. i _ dramatic. a dampener on aspiration is a good talking point. i am - dramatic. a dampener on aspiration is a good talking point. i am sorry i is a good talking point. i am sorry about that- _ is a good talking point. i am sorry about that- l— is a good talking point. i am sorry about that. i really _ is a good talking point. i am sorry about that. i really do _ is a good talking point. i am sorry about that. i really do think, - is a good talking point. i am sorry| about that. i really do think, yeah, i hope it will not always be this way, i hope it won't but my son is earning just over £14 an hour and expected to work long shifts, i know this is separate but he said to me,

i've got £100,000 worth of debt, i cannot ever see myself getting on the property ladder. at the other end of the extreme, privileged in some ways to have our foot on the ladder but coming up for renewal, again, it is such a troublesome time because you just sort of think, for there will be extra money come from? a5 previous people have said, it's as previous people have said, it's notjust as previous people have said, it's not just a as previous people have said, it's notjust a small increase, it's a huge, hundreds of pounds. don't not wor , we huge, hundreds of pounds. don't not worry. we will— huge, hundreds of pounds. don't not worry, we will come _ huge, hundreds of pounds. don't not worry, we will come to _ huge, hundreds of pounds. don't not worry, we will come to the _ huge, hundreds of pounds. don't not worry, we will come to the junior- worry, we will come to the junior doctors strike in days to come and we will be talking about that yet again because it is so important to do so. i would like to bring in samantha. then we will come to marcus and richard. samantha. iam hearing notjust frustration but desperation this morning. it is awful, what about you? i

desperation this morning. it is awful, what about you?- desperation this morning. it is awful, what about you? i am 57. i have worked _ awful, what about you? i am 57. i have worked all— awful, what about you? i am 57. i have worked all my _ awful, what about you? i am 57. i have worked all my life. - awful, what about you? i am 57. i have worked all my life. very i awful, what about you? i am 57. ii have worked all my life. very rarely took benefits — have worked all my life. very rarely took benefits or _ have worked all my life. very rarely took benefits or help _ have worked all my life. very rarely took benefits or help me _ have worked all my life. very rarely took benefits or help me and - have worked all my life. very rarely took benefits or help me and my. took benefits or help me and my partner, — took benefits or help me and my partner, we _ took benefits or help me and my partner, we worked _ took benefits or help me and my partner, we worked really- took benefits or help me and my partner, we worked really hard. i partner, we worked really hard. being _ partner, we worked really hard. being made _ partner, we worked really hard. being made redundant- partner, we worked really hard. being made redundant twice i partner, we worked really hard. being made redundant twice in| partner, we worked really hard. i being made redundant twice in the last five _ being made redundant twice in the last five years. _ being made redundant twice in the last five years, at _ being made redundant twice in the last five years, at my— being made redundant twice in the last five years, at my age, - being made redundant twice in the last five years, at my age, it - being made redundant twice in the last five years, at my age, it is - last five years, at my age, it is getting — last five years, at my age, it is getting harder_ last five years, at my age, it is getting harder and _ last five years, at my age, it is getting harder and harder- last five years, at my age, it is getting harderand harderto. last five years, at my age, it is l getting harder and harder to find work _ getting harder and harder to find work my— getting harder and harder to find work. my income _ getting harder and harder to find work. my income has— getting harder and harder to find work. my income has gone - getting harder and harder to find work. my income has gone downi getting harder and harder to find . work. my income has gone down in getting harder and harder to find - work. my income has gone down in the last work. my income has gone down in the test five _ work. my income has gone down in the test five years — work. my income has gone down in the last five years compared _ work. my income has gone down in the last five years compared to _ work. my income has gone down in the last five years compared to what - work. my income has gone down in the last five years compared to what i- last five years compared to what i used _ last five years compared to what i used to _ last five years compared to what i used to earn _ last five years compared to what i used to earn due _ last five years compared to what i used to earn due to— last five years compared to what i used to earn due to disability. - last five years compared to what i| used to earn due to disability. so, you know. — used to earn due to disability. so, you know. it— used to earn due to disability. so, you know. it is_ used to earn due to disability. so, you know, it is getting _ used to earn due to disability. so, you know, it is getting harder, - used to earn due to disability. so, you know, it is getting harder, i. you know, it is getting harder, i still you know, it is getting harder, i stilt had — you know, it is getting harder, i stilt had ten _ you know, it is getting harder, i still had ten years _ you know, it is getting harder, i still had ten years technically i still had ten years technically untit— still had ten years technically untit state _ still had ten years technically until state pension _ still had ten years technically until state pension age, - still had ten years technically until state pension age, i'm i still had ten years technically - until state pension age, i'm sorry. and i_ until state pension age, i'm sorry. and i have — until state pension age, i'm sorry. and i have ten _ until state pension age, i'm sorry. and i have ten more _ until state pension age, i'm sorry. and i have ten more years- until state pension age, i'm sorry. and i have ten more years payingi until state pension age, i'm sorry. l and i have ten more years paying a mortgage~ — and i have ten more years paying a mortgage~ my— and i have ten more years paying a mortgage. my mortgage _ and i have ten more years paying a mortgage. my mortgage is- and i have ten more years paying a mortgage. my mortgage is not- and i have ten more years paying a mortgage. my mortgage is not as i and i have ten more years paying a i mortgage. my mortgage is not as high as everyone _ mortgage. my mortgage is not as high as everyone else, _ mortgage. my mortgage is not as high as everyone else, granted, _ mortgage. my mortgage is not as high as everyone else, granted, but- mortgage. my mortgage is not as high as everyone else, granted, but it - as everyone else, granted, but it has stitt— as everyone else, granted, but it has stilt gone _ as everyone else, granted, but it has stilt gone up _ as everyone else, granted, but it has still gone up over— as everyone else, granted, but it has still gone up over £200 - as everyone else, granted, but it has still gone up over £200 in. as everyone else, granted, but it| has still gone up over £200 in the last has still gone up over £200 in the test couple — has still gone up over £200 in the test couple of— has still gone up over £200 in the last couple of years _ has still gone up over £200 in the last couple of years along - has still gone up over £200 in the last couple of years along with - last couple of years along with electric, — last couple of years along with electric, water, _ last couple of years along with electric, water, gas, _ last couple of years along with electric, water, gas, etc, - electric, water, gas, etc, everything _ electric, water, gas, etc, everything else, - electric, water, gas, etc, everything else, all- electric, water, gas, etc, everything else, all the l electric, water, gas, etc, - everything else, all the insurance. we are _ everything else, all the insurance. we are struggting _ everything else, all the insurance. we are struggling now. _

everything else, all the insurance. we are struggling now. i'm - everything else, all the insurance. we are struggling now. i'm life - we are struggling now. i'm life should — we are struggling now. i'm life should be _ we are struggling now. i'm life should be getting _ we are struggling now. i'm life should be getting easier- we are struggling now. i'm life should be getting easier as- we are struggling now. i'm life| should be getting easier as you we are struggling now. i'm life - should be getting easier as you get older. _ should be getting easier as you get older. not— should be getting easier as you get older, not harder. _ should be getting easier as you get older, not harder. i— should be getting easier as you get older, not harder. i have _ should be getting easier as you get older, not harder. i have got - should be getting easier as you get older, not harder. i have got my. older, not harder. i have got my 30-year-otd _ older, not harder. i have got my 30—year—old daughter— older, not harder. i have got my 30—year—old daughter and - older, not harder. i have got my 30—year—old daughter and her. older, not harder. i have got my- 30—year—old daughter and her partner that have _ 30—year—old daughter and her partner that have had — 30—year—old daughter and her partner that have had to _ 30—year—old daughter and her partner that have had to move _ 30—year—old daughter and her partner that have had to move in _ 30—year—old daughter and her partner that have had to move in with- 30—year—old daughter and her partner that have had to move in with us- 30—year—old daughter and her partner that have had to move in with us as i that have had to move in with us as well because — that have had to move in with us as well because they _ that have had to move in with us as well because they are _ that have had to move in with us as well because they are trying - that have had to move in with us as well because they are trying to - that have had to move in with us as well because they are trying to get| well because they are trying to get on the _ well because they are trying to get on the property— well because they are trying to get on the property ladder— well because they are trying to get on the property ladder and - well because they are trying to get on the property ladder and they. on the property ladder and they cannot — on the property ladder and they cannot they— on the property ladder and they cannot. they are _ on the property ladder and they cannot. they are doing - on the property ladder and they. cannot. they are doing everything possible _ cannot. they are doing everything possible to — cannot. they are doing everything possible to try— cannot. they are doing everything possible to try and _ cannot. they are doing everything possible to try and get _ cannot. they are doing everything possible to try and get a - cannot. they are doing everything| possible to try and get a mortgage but they— possible to try and get a mortgage but they cannot. _ possible to try and get a mortgage but they cannot. and _ possible to try and get a mortgage but they cannot. and if _ possible to try and get a mortgage but they cannot. and if they- possible to try and get a mortgage but they cannot. and if they do - possible to try and get a mortgage| but they cannot. and if they do get a nrortgage, — but they cannot. and if they do get a nrortgage, nry— but they cannot. and if they do get a mortgage, my concern _ but they cannot. and if they do get a mortgage, my concern is- but they cannot. and if they do get a mortgage, my concern is they i but they cannot. and if they do getl a mortgage, my concern is they will not be _ a mortgage, my concern is they will not be able — a mortgage, my concern is they will not be able to — a mortgage, my concern is they will not be able to pay— a mortgage, my concern is they will not be able to pay it _ a mortgage, my concern is they will not be able to pay it anyway. - a mortgage, my concern is they will not be able to pay it anyway. and i i not be able to pay it anyway. and i 'ust not be able to pay it anyway. and i just think. — not be able to pay it anyway. and i just think. you _ not be able to pay it anyway. and i just think, you know, _ not be able to pay it anyway. and i just think, you know, there - not be able to pay it anyway. and i just think, you know, there are - not be able to pay it anyway. and i i just think, you know, there are lots of people _ just think, you know, there are lots of people who — just think, you know, there are lots of people who work _ just think, you know, there are lots of people who work really - just think, you know, there are lots of people who work really hard - just think, you know, there are lots of people who work really hard and | of people who work really hard and it just _ of people who work really hard and it just feels — of people who work really hard and it just feels like _ of people who work really hard and it just feels like we _ of people who work really hard and it just feels like we are _ of people who work really hard and itjust feels like we are being, - of people who work really hard and itjust feels like we are being, noti itjust feels like we are being, not punished — itjust feels like we are being, not punished butm _ itjust feels like we are being, not punished but... it— itjust feels like we are being, not punished but... it is— itjust feels like we are being, not punished but... it is a _ itjust feels like we are being, not punished but... it is a crazy- itjust feels like we are being, not punished but... it is a crazy old i punished but... it is a crazy old world _ punished but... it is a crazy old world ever— punished but... it is a crazy old world ever since _ punished but... it is a crazy old world ever since the _ punished but... it is a crazy old world ever since the pandemic. punished but... it is a crazy old - world ever since the pandemic. here miss marcus. — world ever since the pandemic. here miss marcus, senior _ world ever since the pandemic. i—irzin; miss marcus, senior consultant world ever since the pandemic. miss marcus, senior consultant in the mission financial services. it desperate for people.— desperate for people. yes, i am heafina desperate for people. yes, i am hearing what — desperate for people. yes, i am hearing what samantha - desperate for people. yes, i am hearing what samantha said. i desperate for people. yes, i am | hearing what samantha said. the desperate for people. yes, i am - hearing what samantha said. the cost of living has gone up. gas,

electricity, telephone has gone up, fuel went up to £2 per litre. there is a margin of saving grace in that fuel is back down to £1.50 per litre but coupled with everything else that people have to pay an as tough times. 13 interest rate rises over the last 18 months. people on tracker rate mortgages which benefited from lower rates for a period of time, suddenly it has gathered momentum and they went up and up. fixed rate deals are coming up and up. fixed rate deals are coming up from 82, three and five year fix and people are moving from 0.5, 1.75, up to 2% mortgages, back up to 4.9%, 5.5%, even 6% and this is the cost of living crisis we have got. the main thing to know is where are we now and what is the landscape

like looking forward? and i think when we spoke to the economists in london with a big investment banks, they are expecting maybe two more interest rate rises, maybe 0.25%, each one, but topping out at about 6%. four orfive months ago each one, but topping out at about 6%. four or five months ago they said interest rates were top at 5% and we are there already. inflation is stuck at about 8.5%. that needs to come down. certain aspects of inflation are coming down, certain aspects are not, household staples and things like that but as soon as the inflation comes down, what people have got to remember is this will come to an end and they have got to find a way to get through this difficult period. you need to speak to an independent mortgage

adviser so they can assess your ability to pay the mortgage. you want repayment, interest only, should you consider putting some of it on to interest only for the foreseeable future, maybe put it all on interest only for the foreseeable future, a year or so but i think looking at one 32 three of next year, if inflation continues to fall and it is forecast at 0a, interest rates will come down. find and it is forecast at 04, interest rates will come down.— and it is forecast at 04, interest rates will come down. and we have a mortnae rates will come down. and we have a mortgage broker— rates will come down. and we have a mortgage broker called _ rates will come down. and we have a mortgage broker called steve - rates will come down. and we have a mortgage broker called steve who i rates will come down. and we have a. mortgage broker called steve who has called us. i promised to go to richard but let me read a text, it is a long one. let me brace myself. i work in mortgages at a make a major uk luggage mortgage lender and people crying down the phone at me or over indebted, living beyond their means for the last 10—15 years

while thinking the bank of england rate will remain at a historically low level. sympathy for these people when they have half a million equity on property. a woman crying down the phone for yesterday about her payments going up, she said it's modifying being rejected forfinance and a laptop atjohn lewis, a perfect example of not living within your means. time for these people to get a reality check and manage their finances properly. personally i am looking forward to these repossessions and fire sales, it means i will finally be able to get on the property ladder myself after years of desperately trying to save a deposit, i will get a cheap property. a lot of homes may become affordable for working—class people. this is now only big news all over the media because it's affecting the middle classes, these financial difficulties have always been in everyday part of life in the working classes, welcome to our world.

richard, good morning. good morning. thank you for having me on. so, from my perspective, some people should be aware that there are possibilities to seek other mortgages before your term has actually finished. independent, i would say from the previous adviser, going to an independent mortgage adviser is essential regardless of how big your mortgage is because your current lender could be considerably different to others and to have someone that can help you shop around for the best rates is very important. if your mortgage is coming up in six months and you foresee the interest rates continue rising you can still secure another mortgage to another lender in advance of that and actually for the good foresight of my wife, we did do

that about six months ago, we came out of our mortgage almostjust under 12 months before the end and we had to pay the 1% penalty to do so but that 1% was only effectively interest in what was going for one year and if i interest in what was going for one yearand if i had interest in what was going for one year and if i had waited until august this year i would be looking at 7% compared to 3.7%. it’s august this year i would be looking at 7% compared to 3.7%.— at 7% compared to 3.7%. it's very lucky married — at 7% compared to 3.7%. it's very lucky married meg, _ at 7% compared to 3.7%. it's very lucky married meg, incredible! it| lucky married meg, incredible! it was quite predictable, the amount of rice is coming up. i personally do not think until we see interest rates having an effect and houses are repossessed, maybe we are into a proper recession, these interest rates will continue to rise. i do not think any economist, publicly speaking, everyone is saying it will level to stop the mayhem and panic but you speak to my parents generation, talking 15 years, very

small period of time, the highest in 15 but beyond 15 or 20 years ago mortgages were up at 14 or 15%. it could very easily double from now. it did not hit people like it now because of the ratio between the mortgage and the price of the property and what people are earning. {lit property and what people are earninu. u, , property and what people are earninu. u, , . earning. of course. the relative effect is probably _ earning. of course. the relative effect is probably still— earning. of course. the relative effect is probably still very - effect is probably still very similar. but nevertheless, until they start seeing the effects of an interest rate rise and they actually happen, this seems to be the only tool they are willing to use. i listened to another programme yesterday. only effort of properties in the actually have mortgages of which 10% of those have come up for renewal since the big hike in interest rates so we still have got another 20% of houses in the foreseeable that will have to come

up foreseeable that will have to come up to their renewables, 100,000 houses have in your mortgage every month apparently. therefore the effects of these interest rates has not really kicked in yet so until people start feeling the squeeze, they will carry on doing it because they will carry on doing it because the purpose of the rice is to stop people spending. unfortunately, a sad state of affairs but they want homeowners to not go out spending. to reduce prices. that is the aim. it is doing what they intended to do, it doesn't make good political headlines but they don't want a recession to lower inflation. andrew bailey denies _ recession to lower inflation. andrew bailey denies that _ recession to lower inflation. andrew bailey denies that but _ recession to lower inflation. andrew bailey denies that but lots - recession to lower inflation. andrew bailey denies that but lots of - bailey denies that but lots of people are saying it. let me read this. this is a text, this relates to the points you made, go for savers. just got an e—mail from my bank about interest on savings, if i have over 100,000 i can get 2.5%, or other amounts as between one and 2%.

the banks are making huge profits, we bailed them out when they were in trouble and they now need to help people struggling. personally i would nationalise them, that is what that text says, thank you ever so much richard. cara is in somerset. good morning. much richard. cara is in somerset. good morning-— much richard. cara is in somerset. good morninu. ., , ., good morning. good morning. 5%. for somebody like — good morning. good morning. 5%. for somebody like me _ good morning. good morning. 5%. for somebody like me who _ good morning. good morning. 5%. for somebody like me who is _ good morning. good morning. 5%. for somebody like me who is a _ good morning. good morning. 5%. for somebody like me who is a care - somebody like me who is a care worker, — somebody like me who is a care worker, on— somebody like me who is a care worker, on minimum wages, owning a house' _ worker, on minimum wages, owning a house. how— worker, on minimum wages, owning a house, how can we do that?— worker, on minimum wages, owning a house, how can we do that? yeah, how has it affected — house, how can we do that? yeah, how has it affected you? _ house, how can we do that? yeah, how has it affected you? i _ house, how can we do that? yeah, how has it affected you? i am _ house, how can we do that? yeah, how has it affected you? i am having - house, how can we do that? yeah, how has it affected you? i am having to - has it affected you? i am having to work 70 hours _ has it affected you? i am having to work 70 hours a _ has it affected you? i am having to work 70 hours a week. _ has it affected you? i am having to work 70 hours a week. 70? - has it affected you? i am having to work 70 hours a week. 70? how i has it affected you? i am having to | work 70 hours a week. 70? how big is our work 70 hours a week. 70? how big is your mortgage? _ work 70 hours a week. 70? how big is your mortgage? my — work 70 hours a week. 70? how big is your mortgage? my mortgage - work 70 hours a week. 70? how big is your mortgage? my mortgage is - work 70 hours a week. 70? how big is your mortgage? my mortgage is to i work 70 hours a week. 70? how big is your mortgage? my mortgage is to be £700, it's your mortgage? my mortgage is to be £700. it's not — your mortgage? my mortgage is to be £700, it's not nearly _ your mortgage? my mortgage is to be £700, it's not nearly 14. _ your mortgage? my mortgage is to be £700, it's not nearly 14. gone - your mortgage? my mortgage is to be £700, it's not nearly 14. gone from i £700, it's not nearly 14. gone from 700 up— £700, it's not nearly 14. gone from 700 up to _ £700, it's not nearly 14. gone from

700 up to 1400. you must be absolutely exhausted working 70 hours _ absolutely exhausted working 70 hours a _ absolutely exhausted working 70 hours a week. what is that doing to -et hours a week. what is that doing to get physically and mentally? | hours a week. what is that doing to get physically and mentally? i am out carin: get physically and mentally? i am out caring for— get physically and mentally? i am out caring for other _ get physically and mentally? i —n out caring for other people. i have done that through covid. where is the government helping us? if you were in the room with the chancellor and the banks, what would you say directly to them?— directly to them? they have to live in the real world. _ directly to them? they have to live in the real world. you _ directly to them? they have to live in the real world. you don't - directly to them? they have to live in the real world. you don't think l in the real world. you don't think the do? in the real world. you don't think they do? you _ in the real world. you don't think they do? you know, _ in the real world. you don't think they do? you know, we - in the real world. you don't think they do? you know, we take i in the real world. you don't think| they do? you know, we take care in the real world. you don't think i they do? you know, we take care of --eole, they do? you know, we take care of people. we — they do? you know, we take care of people. we try _ they do? you know, we take care of people. we try to — they do? you know, we take care of people. we try to pay _ they do? you know, we take care of people, we try to pay our— they do? you know, we take care of people, we try to pay our bills i they do? you know, we take care of people, we try to pay our bills and l people, we try to pay our bills and we are _ people, we try to pay our bills and we are still— people, we try to pay our bills and we are still being squeezed. karen, thank ou we are still being squeezed. karen, thank you so _

we are still being squeezed. karen, thank you so much _ we are still being squeezed. karen, thank you so much for— we are still being squeezed. karen, thank you so much for your - we are still being squeezed. karen, thank you so much for your call, i thank you so much for your call, such an important contribution. alex, that text said this is all about the middle classes, but it is not, it is really not.— about the middle classes, but it is not, it is really not. good morning. nic , not, it is really not. good morning. nicky. how — not, it is really not. good morning. nicky. how are _ not, it is really not. good morning. nicky, how are you? _ not, it is really not. good morning. nicky, how are you? that - not, it is really not. good morning. nicky, how are you? that is - not, it is really not. good morning. nicky, how are you? that is a i not, it is really not. good morning. | nicky, how are you? that is a lovely clear line, that's nice. ads, nicky, how are you? that is a lovely clear line, that's nice.— clear line, that's nice. a podcast microphone _ clear line, that's nice. a podcast microphone for _ clear line, that's nice. a podcast microphone for you. _ clear line, that's nice. a podcast microphone for you. 5%, - clear line, that's nice. a podcast microphone for you. 5%, like i clear line, that's nice. a podcast. microphone for you. 5%, like your previous caller, mortgage coming up in april. currently we are paying 1900 per month on the two—year fixed ends in april, we moved in in march. we have done a lot of work, we have borrowed on top of the mortgage, the previous caller is talking about being over leveraged and we are definitely leveraged so when it comes to april we will be looking at going from 1.5 up to 6%, worse case scenario looking like now 3700 per

month and that is going to hit us at the same time as paying for three days of child for an additional child due in two weeks under daughter. a total of £2800 additional on the monthly bill. is additional on the monthly bill. is that doable? the _ additional on the monthly bill. is that doable? the statistic- additional on the monthly bill. is that doable? the statistic that i that doable? the statistic that makes me _ that doable? the statistic that makes me chuckle _ that doable? the statistic that makes me chuckle is - that doable? the statistic that makes me chuckle is that i that doable? the statistic that makes me chuckle is that it i that doable? the statistic that l makes me chuckle is that it will reduce disposable income by 20%, i am pretty sure that will reduce disposable income by 100%. 1st disposable income by 100%. 1.4 million disposable income by100%.1.4 million people they said, disproportionately affecting those under 40. you reckon 20% is a conservative figure? i under 40. you reckon 20% is a conservative figure?— under 40. you reckon 20% is a conservative figure? i do. obviously it's an average _ conservative figure? i do. obviously it's an average but _ conservative figure? i do. obviously it's an average but i _ conservative figure? i do. obviously it's an average but i work _ conservative figure? i do. obviously it's an average but i work in - it's an average but i work in london, i live in the south—east, property prices are higher, a previous caller said relatively higher because of the higher numbers, looking at houses. we are

not quite at the point where we are eating potatoes and beans like my mum and dad would always tell me happened when mortgage rates were as high as they were but it definitely feels like this is our own version of that and you know, i budgeted for worst—case scenarios and it looks like it could go above that because it feels to me like the bank of england is playing catch up. quite a lot of politicians, _ england is playing catch up. quite a lot of politicians, i _ england is playing catch up. quite a lot of politicians, i have _ england is playing catch up. quite a lot of politicians, i have a _ england is playing catch up. quite a lot of politicians, i have a list i lot of politicians, i have a list here in my comments are saying they should have done it sooner. yeah. lots of people are saying get a mortgage broker, stephen southampton? get stephen southampton. yeah. i bet you are getting a lot of calls. the southampton. yeah. i bet you are getting a lot of calls.— getting a lot of calls. the text messa . e getting a lot of calls. the text message or — getting a lot of calls. the text message or read _ getting a lot of calls. the text message or read out - getting a lot of calls. the text message or read out earlier. getting a lot of calls. the text i message or read out earlier was pretty— message or read out earlier was pretty brutal and factual, unfortunately. it's notjust unfortunately. it's not just mortgages unfortunately. it's notjust

mortgages across the board, it's the amount— mortgages across the board, it's the amount of— mortgages across the board, it's the amount of unsecured debt that they have, _ amount of unsecured debt that they have, not— amount of unsecured debt that they have, not everyone, of course. but it was a brutal— have, not everyone, of course. but it was a brutal text, people have put their savings and their income into their dream home and they feel like they are being slapped in the face by people who do not have a mortgage. face by people who do not have a mortmae. �* , , ., mortgage. absolutely. i see it from a broader section _ mortgage. absolutely. i see it from a broader section of _ mortgage. absolutely. i see it from a broader section of society. - a broader section of society. corners _ a broader section of society. corners. nurses. care workers. there is a tremendous amount of uncertainty in the market, it feels like there — uncertainty in the market, it feels like there is a bit of a tsunami coming — like there is a bit of a tsunami cominr. ., . . ., ., coming. you are getting a lot of calls, coming. you are getting a lot of calls. are _ coming. you are getting a lot of calls. are you. _ coming. you are getting a lot of calls, are you, saying _ coming. you are getting a lot of calls, are you, saying can i coming. you are getting a lot of calls, are you, saying can you i coming. you are getting a lot of| calls, are you, saying can you fix this? ~ ., , , . calls, are you, saying can you fix this? ., , ,. ., ., this? we can only help a fraction of the --eole this? we can only help a fraction of the people we _ this? we can only help a fraction of the people we speak _ this? we can only help a fraction of the people we speak to _ this? we can only help a fraction of the people we speak to and - this? we can only help a fraction of the people we speak to and only i the people we speak to and only those _ the people we speak to and only those ones, the columns, the unsecured _ those ones, the columns, the unsecured loans, it is eye watering. that is— unsecured loans, it is eye watering. that is not — unsecured loans, it is eye watering.

that is not everyone. but most people — that is not everyone. but most people have got a decent amount of unsecured _ people have got a decent amount of unsecured debt. and i feel for them, realty _ unsecured debt. and i feel for them, really i_ unsecured debt. and i feel for them, realty ifeel— unsecured debt. and i feel for them, really. i feel like they maybe should — really. i feel like they maybe should have waited for these things to take _ should have waited for these things to take effect before putting up rates _ to take effect before putting up rates again. but i am not an economist. rates again. but i am not an economist-— rates again. but i am not an economist. �* . . ., . economist. but you are a mortgage broker so you — economist. but you are a mortgage broker so you have _ economist. but you are a mortgage broker so you have a _ economist. but you are a mortgage broker so you have a handle - economist. but you are a mortgage broker so you have a handle on i economist. but you are a mortgage broker so you have a handle on it. | broker so you have a handle on it. ifrh, i am going to radley have to cut you off but say briefly. i ifrh, i am going to radley have to cut you off but say briefly.- cut you off but say briefly. i was a nurse, i cut you off but say briefly. i was a nurse. i had _ cut you off but say briefly. i was a nurse. i had to — cut you off but say briefly. i was a nurse, i had to give _ cut you off but say briefly. i was a nurse, i had to give up— cut you off but say briefly. i was a nurse, i had to give up my - cut you off but say briefly. i was a nurse, i had to give up my job- cut you off but say briefly. i was a nurse, i had to give up my job to | nurse, i had to give up myjob to look after my children. it came to a stage we were using a saved up deposit to survive. it's not fair, all these landlords buying all of these houses, getting an income and

revenue from these tenants. we have been dreaming to get a house over the past ten years but that dream will never ever become a reality and we will never get that dream house. my we will never get that dream house. my goodness, you said so much. so concisely, thank you so much. have a good weekend, ifrh and blackburn and everybody else. have a good saturday and sunday and hopefully i will see you on monday, some great texts and calls this morning. live from london, this is bbc news. live from london, this is bbc news. the co—founder of the firm that the co—founder of the firm that developed the titan sub has rejected killed developed the titan sub has rejected claims that it cut corners. claims that it cut corners.

families pay tribute to the five families pay tribute to the five killed on board, the sub suffered a catastrophic implosion. uk bank bosses are summoned over mortgages after the bank of england