has the russian mercenary wagner group just declared war on the kremlin?

tonight, chaos and confusion in russia as the leader of the wagner group accuses the military leadship of doing evil and fabricating the justification for the war in ukraine. what does this apparent escalation of infighting in russia mean for the war, and for putin? mark has been trying to make sense of the chaotic signals from russian media sources. also tonight, remember this? a nation of homeowners will be self—reliant, independent and able to do what they want with their own lives in their own homes. 39 years on — how's that going? we'll be hearing from ben

as thousands who've just had their mortgages hiked hear they might get some temporary relief from the banks? we'll speak to the ceo of a food distribution charity which is overwhelmed, and the chief economist at bloomberg. and a bit of glastonbury... #my # my bed is made of feathers... five times grammy winner jacob collier makes his glastonbury debut tomorrow, we'll be asking him what's in store. good evening. there are potentially big developments in russia tonight which could have consequences not just for the war in ukraine, but for the kremlin itself. there are reports that the leader of the wagner mercenary group yevgeny prigozhin has gone further than ever before, attacking russia's defence minister sergei shoigu and russia's top general — for the war in ukraine. in an audio clip released on telegram, prigozhin appears to dismiss russia's key justification for invading ukraine — "we are bathing in our own blood" he says. "this evil leadership must be stopped." however we cannot verify the audio

you are about to hear. and just over an hour ago state media in russia said a case had been opened against prigozin accusing him of calling for an armed mutiny. i'm joined by mark. mark, what is going on? this is either going — mark, what is going on? this is either going to _ mark, what is going on? this is either going to prove _ mark, what is going on? this is either going to prove to - mark, what is going on? this is either going to prove to be - mark, what is going on? this is either going to prove to be the | mark, what is going on? this is . either going to prove to be the day that yevgeny prigozhin, this mercenary leader who has commanded tens of thousands of troops in the kremlin�*s war of melted down and effectively signed his own death warrant, or it is the beginning of some kind of attempt to seize power. how this turns out we will find out over the coming hours, but essentially he began the day with a message on the telegram channel. he has been doing a lot of these with trenchant criticism and he seemed to take it up a notch. the targets of his criticism, defence minister sarah gay sure you and the chief of the army staff, but he went further

and started talking about the reason for the invasion being a sham and the military leadership and leader of the intelligence service as plundering the donbas, this kind of thing, very inflammatory and russian terms. that led to all kinds of questions in moscow and eventually president putin's spokesman said we are aware, action is being taken, then on audio, a direct challenge for power by prigozhin, let's listen.

now, even that extraordinary message, he tried to draw a line between the military leadership and defence leadership, not directly blaming putin. he had gone too far. we then saw an official russian news media saying that a criminal complaint, probe, had been opened into prigozhin for inciting armed insurrection. so basically now, the fsb is on to him and is going to close him down unless he manages to move first to galvanise this march you heard about at the beginning of the programme, eight march towards moscow, we present. 50 the programme, eight march towards moscow, we present.— the programme, eight march towards moscow, we present. so he has shoigu in his siahts moscow, we present. so he has shoigu in his sights but _ moscow, we present. so he has shoigu in his sights but what _ moscow, we present. so he has shoigu in his sights but what about _ moscow, we present. so he has shoigu in his sights but what about putin, - in his sights but what about putin, and as putin still running the show? i think we have to assume president putin is still in charge and for

whatever reasons he was tolerating prigozhin�*s previous outbursts and that mayjust be weakness on his part, but for whatever reason he has now gone too far and we have heard about troops being deployed on the streets of moscow and some southern cities. it is so hard right now to work out what is going on because it would appear some tv and radio stations in the south of russia are being hacked and prigozhin�*s message being hacked and prigozhin�*s message being put out direct over those channels. we know in the past ukrainian military intelligence has hacked into those tv stations in the southern russia, so are they involved? is prigozhin somehow in cahoots with the ukrainians are is this all just cahoots with the ukrainians are is this alljust his own personal crisis playing out in this extraordinary way? he crisis playing out in this extraordinary way? he said very clearl , extraordinary way? he said very clearly. the _ extraordinary way? he said very clearly, the trips _ extraordinary way? he said very clearly, the trips are _ extraordinary way? he said very clearly, the trips are nothing . extraordinary way? he said very clearly, the trips are nothing to | extraordinary way? he said very i clearly, the trips are nothing to do with this, and what you think his level of support is in the wider military? he level of support is in the wider milita ? , . ., , level of support is in the wider milita ? , . . , ., military? he is claiming they are all behind him _ military? he is claiming they are all behind him but _ military? he is claiming they are all behind him but during - military? he is claiming they are all behind him but during the - military? he is claiming they are | all behind him but during the long fight in back when his wagner group

took such heavy casualties there was lots of bad blood between them, the airborne forces, other elements of the regular military. i am not sure how many would follow him on the situation particularly now they know the fsb and the full panoply of state power is on to prigozhin. thanks very much indeed. and now i am joined by sir lawrence freedman, who is an emeritus professor of war studies at king's college london and from washington stephen blank a senior fellow at the foreign policy research institute. thank you very much both of you for joining us. first of all, what is your take on what prigozhin is doing and what you might achieve? i and what you might achieve? i don't know what he _ and what you might achieve? i don't know what he might _ and what you might achieve? i don't know what he might achieve, - and what you might achieve? i don't know what he might achieve, but. and what you might achieve? i don't know what he might achieve, but i l know what he might achieve, but i think he has moved during the day to a coup. what seems to have happened as he got wind of a move by the russian authorities against him, he has reported that his base has been

shelled, there are now all sorts of rumours going on, but the kremlin appears to be in anti—coup mode, so this is very serious. there are even reports of wagner units moving towards rostov. so a lot of room around which makes it so difficult in these situations, but something big is going on. in these situations, but something big is going om— in these situations, but something big is going on-_ big is going on. stephen, do you think putin _ big is going on. stephen, do you think putin has _ big is going on. stephen, do you think putin has got _ big is going on. stephen, do you think putin has got a _ big is going on. stephen, do you think putin has got a grip - big is going on. stephen, do you think putin has got a grip on - big is going on. stephen, do you | think putin has got a grip on this? it would look like that superficially, but the very fact that these kind of developments are taking _ that these kind of developments are taking place indicates to me the beginning or at least the early stages — beginning or at least the early stages of an unravelling of state powen — stages of an unravelling of state power. even if they put down prigozhin, it is clear that this is not going — prigozhin, it is clear that this is not going to be an isolated incident _ not going to be an isolated incident. this invokes the kind of

things— incident. this invokes the kind of things we — incident. this invokes the kind of things we were seeing in1915, 16 incident. this invokes the kind of things we were seeing in 1915, 16 in things we were seeing in1915, 16 in world war— things we were seeing in 1915, 16 in world war i, when there are many conspiracies against or under behalf of these are awed by various personsm _ of these are awed by various persons... the tsar,. what we have is a lot— persons... the tsar,. what we have is a lot of— persons... the tsar,. what we have is a lot of rumours and unconfirmed reports _ is a lot of rumours and unconfirmed reports but— is a lot of rumours and unconfirmed re orts. �* , reports. but it definitely destabilises _ reports. but it definitely destabilises and - reports. but it definitely| destabilises and changes the dynamics of what is going on in ukraine. do you think, the defence minister shoigu could be a fall guy for the war, that putin could sacrifice him in order to try and reclaim some of the momentum? many of my colleagues _ reclaim some of the momentum? many of my colleagues have _ reclaim some of the momentum? many of my colleagues have suggested just that, that _ of my colleagues have suggested just that, that if prigozhin was able to do these — that, that if prigozhin was able to do these kinds of things and make these _ do these kinds of things and make these charges for several weeks in order— these charges for several weeks in order to _

these charges for several weeks in order tojeopardise shoigu's position _ order tojeopardise shoigu's position. the problem is once you start— position. the problem is once you start throwing people overboard, it indicates _ start throwing people overboard, it indicates that the ship is listing and out — indicates that the ship is listing and out of control. and again, even if putin— and out of control. and again, even if putin comes through this crisis unscathed. — if putin comes through this crisis unscathed, it indicates to me a fundamental weakness in the russian state _ fundamental weakness in the russian state. but— fundamental weakness in the russian state. �* ., . fundamental weakness in the russian state. �* . . ., , state. but lawrence freedman, 'ust talkin: a state. but lawrence freedman, 'ust talking a bit — state. but lawrence freedman, 'ust talking a bit more i state. but lawrence freedman, 'ust talking a bit more about i state. but lawrence freedman, just talking a bit more about prigozhin, | talking a bit more about prigozhin, is prigozhin in i sense a way to channel the anger of the russians? you said quite clearly you thought this is an attempted coup? it has turned into _ this is an attempted coup? it has turned into one _ this is an attempted coup? it has turned into one and _ this is an attempted coup? it has turned into one and he _ this is an attempted coup? it has turned into one and he is - this is an attempted coup? it has turned into one and he is callingl turned into one and he is calling for others tojoin him, and saying that they will then have a proper fight against the ukrainians, but it goes beyond that. there is a lot of anger amongst those at the front. many of them feel let down, a lot of the mobilised troops have been poor lay looked after and thrown into impossible positions and taking

heavy casualties. commanders have been absent, they have seen corruption. so there is a lot of unhappiness and in that sense you have the basis for a mutiny. what we don't know is whether wagner can channel that, because if he does and if he starts to get support, then this really does become a threat to the regime. if it can be squashed quickly which is undoubtedly what putin hopes will happen, then it is an indicator as stephen said of state weakness and they will be worried about it happening again, but wagner is by far the most likely candidate to leave something about this and if he fails, who else would do it? �* , , . ~ this and if he fails, who else would doit? ., ., do it? let's stick with that a minute. _ do it? let's stick with that a minute, prigozhin _ do it? let's stick with that a minute, prigozhin may- do it? let's stick with that a minute, prigozhin may be i do it? let's stick with that a i minute, prigozhin may be the do it? let's stick with that a - minute, prigozhin may be the leader of the coup but what would then subsequently happen? one school of thought is that prigozhin has been in a sense insulated up to now

because he has had support from the kremlin somewhere. if that goes then would prigozhin be a stalking horse for a complete change of the political system in russia? we honestl political system in russia? - honestly don't know. he has obviously got support within the kremlin. there is clearly a lot of unhappiness amongst the elite about the way this war has gone, about the costs to the economy, about the loss of military equipment and people, reputation, all of that is making people unhappy. whether they feel that this deserves what would be a massive instability at the heart of the country is quite another matter, so i suspect there are quite a lot of people just watching at the moment to see what will happen before coming down one way or the other. the next day or so is going to be very important.— to be very important. stephen, i su ose to be very important. stephen, i suppose what — to be very important. stephen, i suppose what we _ to be very important. stephen, i suppose what we do _ to be very important. stephen, i suppose what we do is _ to be very important. stephen, i suppose what we do is to - to be very important. stephen, i suppose what we do is to a - to be very important. stephen, i. suppose what we do is to a certain

extent we know about the dissent in russia and who is trying to escape to finland, who has been hiding in houses so they are not called up, but we don't know the true extent of the anger among the russian people about what is going on. do you think there could be a popularising? i doubt that and i think it is not among — doubt that and i think it is not among the russian military as much as the _ among the russian military as much as the russian people at the moment. and this _ as the russian people at the moment. and this is _ as the russian people at the moment. and this is why it is dangerous for shoigu, the high command has made a mess of this, and putin hasn't moved against them. so in that sense wagner speaks for others, but he has a loose cannon going on his own, so this is why i think people are watching very carefully, to see whether he can get support beyond his own group. flan whether he can get support beyond his own group-— his own group. can i 'ust finish with you. t his own group. can i 'ust finish with you, stephen. _ his own group. can ijust finish with you, stephen. these - his own group. can i just finish i

with you, stephen. these sources have told bbc russia the fsb are on alert in russia, on the road between moscow and rostov. where will the fsb be in all this? the moscow and rostov. where will the fsb be in all this?— fsb be in all this? the fsb will su- tort fsb be in all this? the fsb will support putin. _ fsb be in all this? the fsb will support putin, because - fsb be in all this? the fsb will. support putin, because prigozhin's charges _ support putin, because prigozhin's charges directly implicate them as well charges directly implicate them as weii as— charges directly implicate them as well as being the authors of this catastrophe. so they will support putin _ catastrophe. so they will support putin and — catastrophe. so they will support putin. and what's more, if they were to support _ putin. and what's more, if they were to support prigozhin they would be putting _ to support prigozhin they would be putting their own careers on the line and — putting their own careers on the line and i— putting their own careers on the line and i don't think those people are willing — line and i don't think those people are willing to do that. as lawrence said, _ are willing to do that. as lawrence said. this — are willing to do that. as lawrence said. this is — are willing to do that. as lawrence said, this is not going to be a popular— said, this is not going to be a popular uprising. revolutions in russia — popular uprising. revolutions in russia often come about ultimately due to _ russia often come about ultimately due to popular unrest, but there is first elite _ due to popular unrest, but there is first elite disaffection, and elite disaffection is clear, and prigozhin is only— disaffection is clear, and prigozhin is only the — disaffection is clear, and prigozhin is only the most vocal exponent of it. is only the most vocal exponent of it so _ is only the most vocal exponent of it so those — is only the most vocal exponent of it. so those people who are unhappy

are going _ it. so those people who are unhappy are going to continue to be unhappy and if— are going to continue to be unhappy and if prigozhin fails, they will not be — and if prigozhin fails, they will not be mollified butjust go underground until the situation becomes— underground until the situation becomes intolerable. on the other hand. _ becomes intolerable. on the other hand. the — becomes intolerable. on the other hand, the elite that is dependent on putin. _ hand, the elite that is dependent on putin. they— hand, the elite that is dependent on putin, they are in the same boat as mr putin _ putin, they are in the same boat as mr putin and — putin, they are in the same boat as mr putin and they will support him because _ mr putin and they will support him because they have nowhere else to lo. because they have nowhere else to to, ., ~' because they have nowhere else to to. ., " , ., because they have nowhere else to to. . y because they have nowhere else to to. . , . because they have nowhere else to go. thank you both very much for takint go. thank you both very much for taking part _ go. thank you both very much for taking part tonight. _ the prime minister has all but laid his political reputation on the line over halving inflation this year. but with it firmly stuck at 8.7%, he left it to the bank of england to try to unstick it with yesterday's interest rate rise that's going to hit people with a cost of living with more loans, mortgages and credit card debt straightaway. and then today, in something that looked like the chancellor trying to ride to the rescue of affected mortgage holders, and would be mortgage holders, he called in the banks to ask them to do something about it. sojeremy hunt wasn't staging an intervention — it's the banks that that are going to offer a degree

of temporary flexibility on their mortgage terms. however, evidence from the latest ipsos political monitor out today suggests that eight out of ten britons are disatisfied with how the government is running the country, and that rises to almost 9 out of 10 amongst those with mortgages. ben's here. thank you very much indeed. explain exactly whatjeremy hunt announced today and what he didn't announce. they are calling it a mortgage charter so this is an agreement with the private banks and the regulator to help people through the squeeze we have been talking about a week on newsnight and it includes things like a minimum 12 month period before someone who defaults, before their house can be repossessed by their house can be repossessed by the bank. it includes more flexibility about repayment terms, and that people can ask for support from the bank without incurring a negative impact on their own personal credit score.

how does that help mortgage holders? it doesn't have direct financial help for them in the weather some conservative mps were calling for. this chart effectively formalises the support that was already there. that is not necessarily a bad thing if it clarifies what people's options are and communicates it well. but the economic importance of what was announced today relative to those rises in interest rates should not be compared. but those rises in interest rates should not be compared.— not be compared. but it's different for tieole not be compared. but it's different for people with _ not be compared. but it's different for people with existing _ not be compared. but it's differentl for people with existing mortgages. no one is going to be helping people out who are trying to get mortgages for the first time. that out who are trying to get mortgages for the first time.— for the first time. that is right, rates have _ for the first time. that is right, rates have gone _ for the first time. that is right, rates have gone up _ for the first time. that is right, rates have gone up and - for the first time. that is right, rates have gone up and the - for the first time. that is right, i rates have gone up and the ability to get on the ladder is even harder thanit to get on the ladder is even harder than it was before. but to get on the ladder is even harder than it was before.— than it was before. but the banks are t int than it was before. but the banks are trying to _ than it was before. but the banks are trying to be — than it was before. but the banks are trying to be seen _ than it was before. but the banks are trying to be seen as - than it was before. but the banks are trying to be seen as the - than it was before. but the banks are trying to be seen as the good| are trying to be seen as the good guys. are trying to be seen as the good tu s. ., are trying to be seen as the good i u s, ., , ., , are trying to be seen as the good tu s. ., . ., , ., are trying to be seen as the good i u s, ., , ., , ., ., are trying to be seen as the good tu s, ., , ., , ., .,, guys. that is how they want to be seen. it guys. that is how they want to be seen- it is — guys. that is how they want to be seen. it is noticeable _ guys. that is how they want to be seen. it is noticeable that - guys. that is how they want to be seen. it is noticeable that as - guys. that is how they want to be l seen. it is noticeable that as these interest rates rise, the charge that they are profiteering at the expense of savers is multiplying. we heard that from the chair of the treasury

committee and martin lewis, the consumer champion. let's explain what the case is here against the banks. this blue line shows mortgage lending rates from banks. the red line shows the average rates that they are offering to save us. you can see that both have risen, but the blue line has gone up quite a bit more. the difference between these two lines is effectively the profits of the banks. there has always been a gap. i5 profits of the banks. there has always been a gap.— profits of the banks. there has always been a gap. is this level of .a . always been a gap. is this level of gapjustifiable? — always been a gap. is this level of gapjustifiable? let's _ always been a gap. is this level of gap justifiable? let's talk - always been a gap. is this level of gap justifiable? let's talk about . gap 'ustifiable? let's talk about it, gap justifiable? let's talk about it. because _ gap justifiable? let's talk about it, because this _ gap justifiable? let's talk about it, because this net _ gap justifiable? let's talk about it, because this net interest - it, because this net interest margin, the black line, is the difference. that has gone up, suggesting that the profits of the banks have been rising to more than 3%. it should be said that the banks say these are not the only interest rates that they have on offer. they insist that they are not profiteering, but watch this black line, the net interest margin, because if this stays high in the coming months and years, expect

pressure to grow on politicians and regulators to investigate what's going on here and to put a stop it. thank you very much, ben. i am joined now by our guests, charlotte hill, the ceo of the felix project, which supplies food to food banks, and jamie rush, the bloomberg senior economist. charlotte, in straightforward terms, what is the impact this will have given the position you're in right now? that impact this will have given the position you're in right now? at the felix project. _ position you're in right now? at the felix project. we — position you're in right now? at the felix project, we rescue _ position you're in right now? at the felix project, we rescue surplus - felix project, we rescue surplus food and distribute it to 1000 community organisations like food banks in homeless shelters. those community organisations are already seeing hugely increased demand, we never saw anything like it, even during the pandemic. you can't cater for everybody. we have got 600 other organisations on our waiting list. the 1000 we already service are all asking for more food. of the 600 on our waiting list, we can't meet the demand because we don't have enough

food, funding or volunteers. of those 600, more than one third are primary schools who are asking for food so they can set up food banks in their playgrounds because children are coming to school hungry or with empty packed lunch boxes. said children are going to come to school and grow up thinking the main place they get their food is from a food bank in the playground? this is what we are — food bank in the playground? this is what we are seeing _ food bank in the playground? this is what we are seeing more _ food bank in the playground? this is what we are seeing more and - food bank in the playground? this is what we are seeing more and more. j food bank in the playground? t�*i 3 3 what we are seeing more and more. we did a survey of low—paid londoners. when we first set up the felix kitchen, we thought we would be feeding people who were homeless. increasingly, it is actually people who are in work, key workers, teaching assistants, cleaners and hospitals who have to put fuel in the car to get to work, who have to pay their rent or mortgage. the only bit of theirflexible pay their rent or mortgage. the only bit of their flexible outgoing is food. they are telling us they are having to skip meals so they can feed their children. and having to skip meals so they can feed their children.— having to skip meals so they can feed their children. and they are ttoin to feed their children. and they are going to be _ feed their children. and they are going to be paying _ feed their children. and they are going to be paying higher- feed their children. and they are i going to be paying higher mortgage rates. let's turn to mortgages now, jamie rush. today's announcement, no

repossession is a good ash that is something. the repossession is a good ash that is something-— repossession is a good ash that is something. the important thing is that no one _ something. the important thing is that no one likes _ something. the important thing is that no one likes repossessing - that no one likes repossessing houses — that no one likes repossessing houses. obviously not the person losing _ houses. obviously not the person losing their house, but the bank doesn't — losing their house, but the bank doesn't like repossessing houses either. _ doesn't like repossessing houses either. it— doesn't like repossessing houses either, it is a cost to business. so we would — either, it is a cost to business. so we would like to explore any flexibility so that the intentions are aligned for the person who is struggling and the bank. a lot of things— struggling and the bank. a lot of things being suggested today were iioii'i things being suggested today were going to _ things being suggested today were going to happen anyway because banks are not— going to happen anyway because banks are not stupid. they are not going to take _ are not stupid. they are not going to take away someone's house before they have _ to take away someone's house before they have explored all the options. but the _ they have explored all the options. but the chancellor is leaving it to the banks to do the heavy lifting. but this is only going to be temporary, delays on mortgage repayments, adding an extra year to your repayment plan. is that going to be enough?— your repayment plan. is that going to be enouth? ., , , ., ., . to be enough? economists do not have c stal to be enough? economists do not have crystal balls- — to be enough? economists do not have crystal balls. but _ to be enough? economists do not have crystal balls. but they _ to be enough? economists do not have crystal balls. but they are _ crystal balls. but they are expecting interest rates to stay hi-h expecting interest rates to stay high for— expecting interest rates to stay high for a — expecting interest rates to stay high for a long time. so whatever high fora long time. so whatever support— high for a long time. so whatever support you put in place is likely to be _ support you put in place is likely to be needed for a long time. so the

government— to be needed for a long time. so the government is wary of doing anything on that _ government is wary of doing anything on that the — government is wary of doing anything on that. the other point is that if you try— on that. the other point is that if you try and — on that. the other point is that if you try and intervene, it makes the bank— you try and intervene, it makes the bank of— you try and intervene, it makes the bank of england'sjob harder because the bank— bank of england'sjob harder because the bank wants people to suffer to some _ the bank wants people to suffer to some extent so that the economy because _ some extent so that the economy because off and inflation starts to come _ because off and inflation starts to come back— because off and inflation starts to come back down. if you start intervening with that, the bank will have to _ intervening with that, the bank will have to put interest rates up highen _ have to put interest rates up highen |t— have to put interest rates up hither. . . . have to put interest rates up hither. , , , ., have to put interest rates up hither. ,, , ., , have to put interest rates up hiher. , , , . , ., have to put interest rates up hither. ,, , ., , ., higher. it is push and pull. you say the bank wants _ higher. it is push and pull. you say the bank wants people _ higher. it is push and pull. you say the bank wants people to - higher. it is push and pull. you say the bank wants people to have - higher. it is push and pull. you say i the bank wants people to have pain. you don't mean that they want people to suffer personally, but they are going to suffer. it helped getting to the right group?— going to suffer. it helped getting to the right group? well, banks do to the right group? well, banks do t and to the right group? well, banks do try and help. _ to the right group? well, banks do try and help. but _ to the right group? well, banks do try and help, but that _ to the right group? well, banks do try and help, but that is _ to the right group? well, banks do try and help, but that is not - to the right group? well, banks do try and help, but that is not going | try and help, but that is not going to make _ try and help, but that is not going to make much difference. there are people _ to make much difference. there are people who — to make much difference. there are people who don't have the option to downsize _ people who don't have the option to downsize who are really going to struggle — downsize who are really going to strut tle. downsize who are really going to struttle. , , , ., ., struggle. the emphasis is going to be on the have and _ struggle. the emphasis is going to be on the have and have _ struggle. the emphasis is going to

be on the have and have nots - struggle. the emphasis is going to | be on the have and have nots here, because saver rates are going to increase, but not by as much as people would like. so you are going to have people with money doing better, clearly, when people are trying to put food on the table. irate trying to put food on the table. we are trying to put food on the table. - are increasingly seeing more and more people who have never experienced food insecurity slipping into it, people who always thought they would be able to pay their mortgage and put food on the table. it isn't the usual suspects that people are seeing struggling. it is happening to people across the board. at the felix project, we are seeing very different people coming to us for support. pare seeing very different people coming to us for support-— to us for support. are you also able to us for support. are you also able to monitor— to us for support. are you also able to monitor the _ to us for support. are you also able to monitor the impact _ to us for support. are you also able to monitor the impact that - to us for support. are you also able to monitor the impact that lack - to us for support. are you also able to monitor the impact that lack of l to monitor the impact that lack of food is having? we have heard about children literally being smaller than in other countries. it is children literally being smaller than in other countries.- than in other countries. it is a real impact — than in other countries. it is a real impact on _ than in other countries. it is a real impact on health - than in other countries. it is a real impact on health and - real impact on health and well—being, a huge impact on mental health. we are seeing lots of knock—on support that people need because they are not getting enough

food, impact on children's education and their ability to focus at school, all sorts of other challenges.— school, all sorts of other challenges. school, all sorts of other challentes. ~ . ., challenges. which impact down the line in terms _ challenges. which impact down the line in terms of— challenges. which impact down the line in terms of the _ challenges. which impact down the line in terms of the workforce. - line in terms of the workforce. however, the bank had to do something to get a handle on inflation. but economists disagree over whether this is going to work. i think it is going to work. interest _ i think it is going to work. interest rates are already very high — interest rates are already very high the _ interest rates are already very high. the question is, how long do we need _ high. the question is, how long do we need for— high. the question is, how long do we need for inflation to come back down? _ we need for inflation to come back down? if_ we need for inflation to come back down? if you hold interest rates had even 45% _ down? if you hold interest rates had even 4.5% forever, it will eventually come down, but the bank is uncomfortable with the overshoot. it is uncomfortable with the overshoot. it fears _ is uncomfortable with the overshoot. it fears that — is uncomfortable with the overshoot. it fears that its credibility will be eroded if it doesn't come down faster. _ be eroded if it doesn't come down faster. so— be eroded if it doesn't come down faster, so that is why it is moving faster— faster, so that is why it is moving faster than— faster, so that is why it is moving faster than everyone expected. that was a half % — faster than everyone expected. that was a half % hike. _ faster than everyone expected. trust was a half % hike. you don't rule out a half % hike at the next meeting? it out a half % hike at the next meeting?— out a half % hike at the next meetint ? ., , ., meeting? it would depend on the tra'ecto meeting? it would depend on the trajectory of _ meeting? it would depend on the trajectory of inflation. _ meeting? it would depend on the trajectory of inflation. they - meeting? it would depend on the trajectory of inflation. they may i trajectory of inflation. they may feel the — trajectory of inflation. they may feel the pressure to do more. our best case — feel the pressure to do more. our best case is—

feel the pressure to do more. our best case is that they will do 25 basis _ best case is that they will do 25 basis points, but you are still looking — basis points, but you are still looking at rates which are going to be uncomfortable for a lot of people _ be uncomfortable for a lot of tieole. ., .. be uncomfortable for a lot of tieole. ., ,, ,, be uncomfortable for a lot of tieole. ., ,, , be uncomfortable for a lot of tieole. ., , . if you're watching us, you're not watching the arctic monkeys at glastonbury or perhaps you're watching us both. there's something for pretty much everyone at the festival this weekend, from seventies star cat stevens, to '80s band the saw doctors, to the dj, totally enormous extinct dinosaurs. but what if you are a five grammy—award winning artist that mixes classical with dubstep, that's never been asked to play, that's never, ever been to glastonbury, and you are now suddenly going to the ball? that is the fairytale forjacob collier and this is one of his songs. sleeping on my dreams. # my bed is made of feathers # i'll fall asleep, whatever now # 'cause i've been sleeping on my dreams, ah # and i can't remember what i mean to you # and everything is what it

seems, ah—ah, ah—ah # i've been sleeping on my dreams, ah—ah # 'cause i've been thinking 'bout some things, ah # and i do believe our many days are through # don't think i'm lost without your wings, ah—ah, ah—ah # i've been sleeping on my dreams, ah—ah # so i imagined we were playing a game # something like you could be an animal # all i had to do was be tame # i watched you flying around with nothing to lose # i thought that was the kinda levitation no person could ever abuse (i was wrong) # my boots were getting heavy and i jacobjoins us now jacob joins us now from jacobjoins us now from his hotel near glastonbury before he performs on the west holts stage at 5.30

tomorrow evening. thank you for taking some time tonight. how big a deal do you think this is for you? thanks, kirsty, it's lovely to be here. it's insanely exciting. we have been brought up in england where there is always this north star that shines for all musicians that hopefully, they can play on a stage at glastonbury. i have never been, so this is my first time and i can't wait. been, so this is my first time and i can't wait-— been, so this is my first time and i can't wait. ., ., . can't wait. you have never even been to glastonbury. _ can't wait. you have never even been to glastonbury, so _ can't wait. you have never even been to glastonbury, so it _ can't wait. you have never even been to glastonbury, so it will— can't wait. you have never even been to glastonbury, so it will be - can't wait. you have never even been to glastonbury, so it will be a - to glastonbury, so it will be a completely new experience? utterly new exoerience. _ completely new experience? utterly new experience, yeah. _ completely new experience? utterly new experience, yeah. so _ completely new experience? utterly new experience, yeah. so how- completely new experience? utterly new experience, yeah. so how are l completely new experience? utterly i new experience, yeah. so how are you ttoin to new experience, yeah. so how are you going to pitch — new experience, yeah. so how are you going to pitch your— new experience, yeah. so how are you going to pitch your set? _ new experience, yeah. so how are you going to pitch your set? you _ new experience, yeah. so how are you going to pitch your set? you are - going to pitch your set? you are well known for getting your audience to participate. we have seen your technique before a newsnight. what are you thinking of doing? meiji. are you thinking of doing? well, it's a bit of— are you thinking of doing? well, it's a bit of a _ are you thinking of doing? well, it's a bit of a new _ are you thinking of doing? well, it's a bit of a new frontier. - are you thinking of doing? well, it's a bit of a new frontier. i - are you thinking of doing? well, it's a bit of a new frontier. i love to split the audience into different groups without saying a word and get

them to sing the different parts that move up and down was that i have always drained of doing it in a festival environment. the only way to figure out how it's going to go is to give it a shot. this time tomorrow, i will be able to tell you how it went, but i can't wait. shthd how it went, but i can't wait. and am i how it went, but i can't wait. and am i right — how it went, but i can't wait. and am i right in _ how it went, but i can't wait. and am i right in saying _ how it went, but i can't wait. and am i right in saying you're going to perform some new songs that no one has heard? i perform some new songs that no one has heard? ._ ., ., . , has heard? i may do that, which is an exciting — has heard? i may do that, which is an exciting predicament _ has heard? i may do that, which is an exciting predicament if - has heard? i may do that, which is an exciting predicament if it - an exciting predicament if it happens. j an exciting predicament if it ha- ens. ., an exciting predicament if it hat-ens. ., ., an exciting predicament if it ha- tens. ., . , happens. i would almost say it is cavalier that _ happens. i would almost say it is cavalier that you _ happens. i would almost say it is cavalier that you are _ happens. i would almost say it is cavalier that you are heading - happens. i would almost say it is cavalier that you are heading off| happens. i would almost say it is l cavalier that you are heading off to glastonbury and you're not sure what you're going to play yet?— you're going to play yet? cavalier, terha s. you're going to play yet? cavalier, perhaps- i — you're going to play yet? cavalier, perhaps- i do _ you're going to play yet? cavalier, perhaps. i do like _ you're going to play yet? cavalier, perhaps. i do like to _ you're going to play yet? cavalier, perhaps. i do like to change - you're going to play yet? cavalier, | perhaps. i do like to change things at the last minute. as a musician in the 21st century, it can be healthy to have a dose of spontaneity. the show is filled with all sorts of random material. there are elements ofjazz random material. there are elements of jazz and random material. there are elements ofjazz and rock random material. there are elements of jazz and rock and random material. there are elements ofjazz and rock and roll and classical. it will be a hodgepodge of all sorts of material. and what an amazing stage to share that

music. �* ., ., , ., an amazing stage to share that music. �* ., ., ,~. , , ., , music. and who do you desperately want to see? _ music. and who do you desperately want to see? i _ music. and who do you desperately want to see? i have _ music. and who do you desperately want to see? i have seen _ music. and who do you desperately want to see? i have seen lizzo - want to see? i have seen lizzo terform want to see? i have seen lizzo want to see? i have seen lizzo terform want to see? i have seen lizzo perform a _ perform a _ want to see? i have seen lizzo perform a few _ want to see? i have seen lizzo perform a few times _ want to see? i have seen lizzo perform a few times and - want to see? i have seen lizzo perform a few _ want to see? i have seen lizzo perform a few times _ want to see? i have seen lizzo perform a few times and - want to see? i have seen lizzo perform a few times and she l want to see? i have seen lizzo| perform a few times and she is want to see? i have seen lizzo - perform a few times and she is such a force of nature. she and glasto want to see? i have seen lizzo perform a few times and she l want to see? i have seen lizzo| perform a few times and she is want to see? i have seen lizzo - perform a few times and she is such a force of nature. she and glasto are a match made in heaven. you have are a match made in heaven. you have worked with — worked with — are a match made in heaven. you have worked with stormzy _ are a match made in heaven. you have are a match made in heaven. you have worked with stormzy _ are a match made in heaven. you have worked with stormzy and _ are a match made in heaven. you have worked with stormzy and _ are a match made in heaven. you have worked with stormzy and lots - worked with stormzy and lots - are a match made in heaven. you have worked with stormzy and lots of - worked with stormzy and lots of people who do things different ways. are a match made in heaven. you have worked with stormzy and lots of - worked with stormzy and lots of people who do things different ways. have you got any riders? are you have you got any riders? are you wanting to have green smarties or a particular brand of water? filth. oi’ ora wanting to have green smarties or a particular brand of water? filth. particular brand of water? 0h, particular brand of water? 0h, crike . crike . particular brand of water? 0h, crikey- well. _ particular brand of water? 0h, particular brand of water? 0h, crikey- well. _ particular brand of water? 0h, crikey. well, it _ particular brand of water? 0h, crikey. well, it looks - particular brand of water? u crikey. well, it looks like particular brand of water? (31, crikey. well, it looks like a want to get a taste of _ crikey. well, it _ particular brand of water? 0h, crikey. well, it looks - particular brand of water? 01, crikey. well, it looks like a sunny particular brand of water? 01, crikey. well, it looks like a sunny day, so water, for sure. there is a day, so water, sure. there is a little car that i drive around on day, so water, for sure. there is a little car that i drive around on stage sometimes. so there is one of so there is one of those are my rider, which is like a stage sometimes. so there is one of those are my rider, which like a those are my rider, which is like a children's toy. i recommend that if children's toy. i recommend that if anyone is watching.— anyone is watching.— children's toy. i recommend that if anyone is watching. 5.30 tomorrow, so tomorrow — anyone is watching. 5.30 tomorrow, so tomorrow morning, _ anyone is watching. 5.30 tomorrow, so tomorrow morning, are - anyone is watching. 5.30 tomorrow, so tomorrow morning, are you - anyone is watching. 5.30 tomorrow, i so tomorrow morning, are you walking around glastonbury or are you staying put where you are? well, i

want to get _ staying put where you are? well, i want to get a _ staying put where you are? well, i want to get a taste _ staying put where you are? well, i