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tv   Verified Live  BBC News  June 26, 2023 5:00pm-5:30pm BST

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new evidence of china's spy balloon programme, including flights over japan and taiwan has been uncovered. and sir eltonjohn closes the glastonbury festival in the final uk show of his farewell tour. hello, i'm matthew amroliwala. welcome to verified live, three hours of breaking stories, and checking out the truth behind them. we start in russia — and the news that the wagner group head yevgeny prigozhin has issued his first audio message since leading the weekend's mutiny. he said he was not seeking to topple the russian government in moscow,
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and had called off the rebellion because he did not want to shed russian blood. mr prigozhin went on to say that his actions had revealed serious security issues across russia. and — he said — wagner commanders had refused to accept russian government requests to sign contracts with the ministry of defence. he gave no indication of where he currently is, nor about his future plans. lets hear some of that audio message first of all. translation: �* , ., translation: after 'ust one day, we onl had translation: after 'ust one day, we only had zoo _ translation: afterjust one day, we only had 200 kilometres _ translation: afterjust one day, we only had 200 kilometres left - translation: afterjust one day, we only had 200 kilometres left to - only had 200 kilometres left to moscow. we entered the city of rostov, and we took it fully under our control. it was peaceful, and the civilians were happy to see us. we showed a demonstration, a masterclass for the 24th of february of 2022 should have looked like. we did not aim to overthrow the existing regime, northe did not aim to overthrow the existing regime, nor the legitimate power. we said that many times, and we turned back, so that we would not spill the blood of russian soldiers.
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more on that in just a moment or two. first of all, let's hearfrom russia's foreign minister sergei lovegrove, who has been asked about the events of the weekend. he said this about the wagner group's role in africa and russia's standing in the world. translation:, the world. translation: , the the world. translation:, the governance of the central african republic and mali have contracts with our government, and several thousand members are working as instructors, and this working as instructors, and this work will continue. will there be any changes to relations with partners and friends, no. as to the other is, frankly, i don't care. the uk foreign secretaryjames other is, frankly, i don't care. the uk foreign secretary james cleverly has been talking in the house of commons. here is what he had to say about the events of the weekend, saying the cracks in the redeem are beginning to appear. everyone should note that one
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of putin's proteges had publicly destroyed his case for the war in ukraine. prigozhin said on friday that there was nothing out of the ordinary before the 24th of february, 2022. the situation was frozen, with exchanges of military action and vicious looting by the russians. he also said that russia's defence ministry is trying to deceive both the president and the nation that there was incredible aggression from the ukrainian side, with nato support ready to attack russia. the russian government's lies have been exposed by one of president putin's own henchmen. the full story of this weekend's events, and the long—term effects will take some time to become clear, and it is not helpful to speculate. but prigozhin�*s rebellion is an unprecedented challenge to president putin's authority, and it is clear that cracks are emerging in the russian support for the war. i, of course, hold no candle
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for prigozhin or his forces. they have committed atrocities in ukraine and elsewhere. but he said out loud what we have believed since the start of russia's full scale invasion, that this invasion was both unjustified and unprovoked. the events of this weekend are an unprecedented challenge to putin's authority, with an armoured column approaching his own capital city. that was james cleverly. live now to warsaw to speak to sarah rainsford — our eastern europe correspondent. that 11 minute audio message from prigozhin. it cuts strictly lines you have seen. —— the key lines. i think the key one was that he you have seen. —— the key lines. i think the key one was that he was never intending to essentially, without saying it, challenge vladimir putin. he said there was no intent to overthrow four elected authorities in russia, and this was all a fight for survival, as he described it between the wagner group and the russian military. he
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talked about the fact there were attempts to get a group to disband, which they didn't want to do, and he said the triggerfor the which they didn't want to do, and he said the trigger for the march on moscow was supposedly an attack on wagner positions in ukraine, an attack which has never been confirmed or verified, but it is said to me but he is describing is the reason he set off on this march. he said it showed how poor the security situation is inside russia, that his troops were able to head off unimpeded right up to moscow, and he essentially claims that he is ultimately a man of peace, because when he got to 200 kilometres outside of moscow, he decided they would turn round, because they didn't want to spill russian soldiers blood. take what you want from this, and make of it what you will, it is an extraordinary account. i think it is important that it does kind of reflect some of the official russian talking points on this. the claims from the russian parity is that this was not a challenge to vladimir putin, that he is not weakened by it. i think he is trying to agree with that kind of
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assessment, while continuing his very bitterfight assessment, while continuing his very bitter fight with the defence ministry itself. you very bitter fight with the defence ministry itself.— very bitter fight with the defence ministry itself. you said we wanted to hold accountable _ ministry itself. you said we wanted to hold accountable those - ministry itself. you said we wanted to hold accountable those who - ministry itself. you said we wanted i to hold accountable those who made mistakes during a special military operation. it is totally clear as we are talking, wherever there has been any sort of change or accountability. —— he said. any sort of change or accountability. -- he said. yes, let's say — accountability. -- he said. yes, let's say first — accountability. -- he said. yes, let's say first and _ accountability. -- he said. yes, let's say first and foremost - accountability. -- he said. yes, let's say first and foremost that sergei shoigu appears to still be in thisjob. this morning, the first div element on the story we got was that video of the defence minister, who had been visiting forward positions of the command points, down in southern russia for the war in ukraine, i think that was a measure is to say that sergei shoigu has survive this crisis and vladimir putin is still backing him. that was the first kind of part, i suppose, of this operation to recover vladimir putin's reputation. because whatever yevgeny prigozhin says in this 11 and a half minute statement, i think that mr putin has a most
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from this looking weaker, and even if vladimir putin wasn't the target of this march, that has been one of the constant threats. so this was a fight, if you'd between the defence ministry and a leader of the mercenary group that has exploded into a political problem for russia, and a political problem, whatever mr prigozhin says, for vladimir putin. it makes the point that whether his troops went on this march, he says they had the support in the various towns and villages, and of course, vladimir putin would seen those pictures. in terms of the things that we don't know here, there is no indication of where he currently is, is there? and this was an audio message, not a video message. yes. and in fact, — message, not a video message. yes. and in fact, i — message, not a video message. yes. and in fact, i think— message, not a video message. 133 and in fact, i think throughout this crisis, there were audio messages that yevgeny prigozhin was releasing. there was no video, apart from that one that he of course released from the headquarters in rostov, sitting side by side with senior russian generals. it was an
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audio message, and he said he was answering what he could of a whole, answering what he could of a whole, a huge number of messages and requests for comments that his press service had received. this is what you put out in response, but so much is still unanswered, including that key point of where he is. there are people looking for him, of course in belarus, where it is claimed he was heading. that is what the kremlin said would happen. there are some people who monitor security situations and things on the ground in belarus. they said they've seen no sign of him, and certainly no sign of large numbers of his fighters, of the wagner mercenaries crossing the border and heading into belarus. there have been some suggestions that perhaps he was allowed to go to belarus with some of his men, essentially. that they would go and set up there in some capacity. we don't think there has been any sign of that happening just yet. been any sign of that happening 'ust et. �* ., . ., , been any sign of that happening 'ust et. ., , ~ ., yet. and of course, we don't know, in terms of — yet. and of course, we don't know, in terms of the _ yet. and of course, we don't know, in terms of the wagner _ yet. and of course, we don't know, in terms of the wagner group, - in terms of the wagner group, whether they will return to the
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battlefield. so much unanswered, but thank you for taking us through some of those key lines that from that prigozhin ii of those key lines that from that prigozhin 11 minute audio message. a little early on the programme, i spoke to our international editor, jeremy bowen, and he told me how the events in russia would be viewed there in ukraine. i think a certain amount of satisfaction from the ukrainian side, clearly. chaos, disruption, rebellion, mutiny, coup, whatever you want to describe it, is something that they they like to see in the the ruling circles of their enemies now. the issue, though, is how that affects the wider war. and i think that it would be wrong to see an immediate translation into ukrainian territorial gains on the ground at the moment. while they have captured some villages, they've just been making what soldiers
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call tactical advances. they haven't had the strategic breakthroughs they will need to try to really change the course of the war. and that would mean getting through those very heavily developed hard russian defences, which they haven't really got close to yet and breaking through. so that is... if it's going to happen, it's a long way off. so i don't think the ukrainians are getting carried away. i think they're sticking to their plans, though of course they're hoping that disruption in russia is good news for them and may affect the morale of russian troops on the front line. jeremy, i'll come back to the battlefield in a moment. but of course, for vladimir putin, it is an obvious blow to his authority. but i heard you on the radio this morning talking about how within russia there has always been a loose agreement, because whatever the harshness of an authoritarian regime, it provides security. how much of that equation do you think has been breached? well, i think what's clear
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is that over the years that putin has been in charge, he's presented himself and the official media, which is controlled by him, has put over a very stark and simple message that he's a strong man, a reliable man, a man to be admired, a man who will deliver for his people, who will protect the country and ensure that it can prosper. but since the invasion, the full—scale invasion of ukraine in february of last year, of course, they've gone from one crisis to another. it didn't go the way... it wasn't the quick victory he was hoping for. it's turned into a series of military blunders. however, the russian military is still fighting. it has not collapsed. it is still a formidable enemy for the ukrainians. but now, after the events of the weekend, there are cracks in the edifice. he looks weak in a way that he didn't before.
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and that's something... if your major selling point is that you're strong and you're an authoritarian, and if you start looking weak, that's bad. i want to take you live to central london and show you the pictures there, because that is the uk defence secretary ben wallace, just addressing a conference they're organised by the defence and security think tank. he's just started, but any developments, we will bring you back and take you the latest. sir malcolm rifkind is a former british foreign secretary and served in the cabinets of margaret thatcher and john major — and hejoins us now. putin's grip has been total for so long, so how surprised were you when you watch those events over the weekend? i you watch those events over the weekend? . . . . you watch those events over the weekend?— you watch those events over the weekend? ., , weekend? i was as astonished as eve one weekend? i was as astonished as everyone else- — weekend? i was as astonished as everyone else. if _ weekend? i was as astonished as everyone else. if i _ weekend? i was as astonished as everyone else. if i go _ weekend? i was as astonished as everyone else. if i go straight - weekend? i was as astonished as everyone else. if i go straight to| everyone else. if i go straight to what bogosian has just been recorded as having said, i actually think
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what he has said was correct, he wasn't trying to over the russian government but demonstrate his own power. —— what bogosian has said. what he has done, i think he has done that well, and he is demonstrated an extraordinary way that blood may put in actually weak. to points i want to talk about. —— that vladimir putin is actually weak. he is able to enter and take control of rostov, a city ofi million, and move north towards voronezh, that shows the extraordinary incompetence of the russian armed forces, which vladimir putin is the ultimate commander of, but secondly, it also exposed, in the way that putin reacted in that speech he made in the kremlin to the
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people of russia, when he denounced prigozhin as traitor, and that treason had been committed, it would all be crushed with the total force of the russians. and within hours, without any explanation being given, certainly bogosian is pardoned, the fact that people read allowed to continue, not being absorbed into the russian army. —— certainly, prigozhin is pardoned. that does not demonstrate anything other then a leader, whose whole or robot is invincibility, that is no longer evidence to russian people. we have seen this from _ evidence to russian people. we have seen this from the _ evidence to russian people. we have seen this from the kremlin _ evidence to russian people. we have seen this from the kremlin today, . evidence to russian people. we have seen this from the kremlin today, it | seen this from the kremlin today, it is uncertain whether it is pictured today, but he makes absolutely no reference to the events over the weekend, which is again extraordinary, but do you share that assessment is that with authoritarian regimes, they can be brittle? they are there, until
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they're not. brittle? they are there, until they're not-— brittle? they are there, until they're not. brittle? they are there, until the 're not. , , ., ., ., they're not. this is more than an authoritarian _ they're not. this is more than an authoritarian regime, _ they're not. this is more than an authoritarian regime, this- they're not. this is more than an authoritarian regime, this is - they're not. this is more than an authoritarian regime, this is a i authoritarian regime, this is a one—man dictatorship. xijinping is start of a politburo. crucial was removed by the politburo. there is no politburo or equivalent in russia. you're taking about one man, and uneasy is the head that wears the crown. you needs the support of the crown. you needs the support of the armed forces and the intelligence agencies, and also, some of the oligarchs. that will now be freeing. that is what they are now discussing and very private discussions. remember one thing, there is a significant development that will happen in march of next year, every six years, there is a presidential election, and we know it is a full selection, not a genuine one, but the question is whether vladimir putin is now likely to be the candidates. because he can only be the candidate, you can win the election if he is the candidate, but he can only be the candidate if in fact the army, the intelligence agencies, the other parts of the
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elite do not withdraw their support from him. they are pretty hard—line people. they are not pleasant, agreeable people. they are not liberals, but they want to retain their privileges, and putin is now becoming a liability other than an asset. the question has to be whether it will make any difference to what happens in ukraine, if putin is eased out, and told it is time to retire to his dacha.— retire to his dacha. sorry to cross ou, i retire to his dacha. sorry to cross you. i was _ retire to his dacha. sorry to cross you, i was listening _ retire to his dacha. sorry to cross you, i was listening to _ retire to his dacha. sorry to cross you, i was listening to one - retire to his dacha. sorry to cross you, i was listening to one uk . you, i was listening to one uk former spy chief this morning saying he anticipated that russia would use all those distraction techniques, blaming the west to be behind what has happened in russia, and literally a matter of hours later, thatis literally a matter of hours later, that is exactly what has transpired. joe biden hasjust been talking in the last little while, just underlining and saying the us had made it clear they were not involved in any way in terms of what was going on in russia. we saw a similar
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thing there from james cleverly. in terms of the approach from the west, what should they be doing at this juncture? what should they be doing at this 'uncture? .. , ., , ., juncture? exactly what they are doinu. juncture? exactly what they are doing- they _ juncture? exactly what they are doing. they are _ juncture? exactly what they are doing. they are saying - juncture? exactly what they are doing. they are saying this - juncture? exactly what they are doing. they are saying this is l juncture? exactly what they are | doing. they are saying this is an internal matter within the russian federation, and that is a matter for the russians to decide, whether vladimir putin is gradually going to be eased out of power, and that is not what is to decide. but whatever does happen, has a profound impact on the wider world. let me explain one point that hasn't been mentioned enough. so often, we are told, it doesn't really matter putin is removed, he will be replaced with a whole other nightmare. it is almost true, but the hardliner who might replace him does not have personal responsibility for the humiliation of the russian government over the last 12 months, and the failure of the ukraine invasion. so whether how hard—line he might be, you will have opportunity to do what is crucially in the interest of the russian state, the russian people and russian economy, and to actually try
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to see if there is a way of ending the war, and that means compromise in a way that vladimir putin would never do. i would in a way that vladimir putin would never do. iwould never in a way that vladimir putin would never do. i would never relax, however hardliner the person might be he replaces vladimir putin in due course, —— i would never rule out. that doesn't mean they will continue the nonsense of an invasion that is meant to destroy ukraine, and is now manifested as united ukrainian nation. i manifested as united ukrainian nation. , , manifested as united ukrainian nation. , ., ., ., nation. i suppose another important international— nation. i suppose another important international dynamic _ nation. i suppose another important international dynamic is _ nation. i suppose another important international dynamic is what - international dynamic is what beijing does. with all the nuclear talk, they will be bound to be greater anxiety in the chinese capital. behind—the—scenes, publicly, even today, we've had the sort of comments you would expect instead with what has gone before, but behind—the—scenes, would you be anticipating any sort of departure, movement from the current position? the current position will not change, behind—the—scenes, if that's what you're asking, frankly, xi jinping has been embarrassed about
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being seen as readily putin's closest friend. there are two particularly important chinese dimensions to this. you mentioned the importance of nuclear threats and possible nuclear weapons, the reason why the chinese are distancing themselves on this issue, notjust instancing but are told bluntly putin he must not use nuclear weapons is not to help with ukraine, it is because the chinese are terrified that if nuclear blackmail was to be used by russia against ukraine, that is an invitation to japan, south korea, even taiwan to contemplate well, maybe if we had nuclear weapons, we would not be threatened by china. there is a second point as well, that china sees russia as the moment, my enemy's enemy is my friend, and it suits them to have the strategic alliance with russia, and makes a lot of sense in the short to medium term. but ultimately, if i was a russian, i would be more worried about china than by the united states or nato. america and europe to do not claim a
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single square inch of russian territory. most of the far east of russia, round about bloody bostock was part of the chinese empire until 1860, when they were forced to hand it over to the tsar. —— roundabout vladistock —— roundabout vladivostok. we know that traditionally, they believe that any part of the chinese empire should be part of the chinese empire should be part of the territory again. i'm not saying that is happening now, but i know that vladimir putin will be thinking about it, and it will influence however subtly, the actions he takes.— influence however subtly, the actions he takes. thank you for 'oinin: actions he takes. thank you for joining us- _ actions he takes. thank you for joining vs joe _ actions he takes. thank you for joining us. joe biden _ actions he takes. thank you for joining us. joe biden has- actions he takes. thank you for joining us. joe biden has beenl joining us. joe biden has been speaking in the last few moments, talking about the events of the weekend, and the help that us will continue to give ukraine. let's have a quick listen. the continue to give ukraine. let's have a quick listen-— a quick listen. the situation began
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and developed _ a quick listen. the situation began and developed as _ a quick listen. the situation began and developed as it _ a quick listen. the situation began and developed as it did. _ a quick listen. the situation began and developed as it did. i - a quick listen. the situation began and developed as it did. i directed| and developed as it did. i directed my national security team to monitor closely, and report to me hour by hour. i instructed them to prepare for a range of scenarios. i also convened our key allies on a zoom call, to make sure we are all on the same page. it is critical that we are coordinated in a response, and coordinated in what we anticipate. they agreed with me that we had to make sure we go vladimir putin no excuse. we emphasised, that we gave vladimir putin no excuse to blame this on the west or on nato. we made clear that we were not involved and we had nothing to do a bit. this was part of a struggle within the russian system. i also talked at length two presidents are lenski of ukraine, and we've been keeping in contact with him. —— talk to president zelensky. making sure we keeping on the same page. i told him that no matter what happened in
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russia, we are, the united states will continue to support ukraine's defence, sovereignty and territorial integrity. he and i agree to follow up integrity. he and i agree to follow up and stay in constant contact. i'm also in constant contact of our allies, to maintain our coordination. i'll be speaking with the head of state, right after this meeting today, and making sure we are in the same page. i didn't get the chance to speak to one head of state yesterday. we will keep assessing the full light of this we can's events and implications for russia and ukraine, but it is still too early to reach a definitive conclusion about where this is going. —— this we can's events. the ultimate outcome of all of this remains to be seen, but no matter what comes next, i will make sure that our allies and partners are closely aligned and how we are reading and responding to the situation, it is important we stay completely coordinated. to abiding s - eakin . completely coordinated. to abiding speakingjust_ completely coordinated. to abiding speaking just in _ completely coordinated. to abiding speaking just in the _ completely coordinated. to abiding speaking just in the last _ completely coordinated. to abiding speaking just in the last few - speaking just in the last few minutes from the white house. —— joe
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biden speaking. we have also heard from the foreign secretary, and the american presence making it clear that western capitals are absolutely coordinating in terms of watching events and coordinating. the us planning to announce as soon as tuesday a new military aid package for ukraine, with up to $5 million, including ground vehicles. that is coming from a variety of us officials, being reported by the reuters news agency. now, before we break, and really important story here. it was the uk's most notorious racist murder — and it prompted a storm of protest — about policing up and down the country. now, a new suspect in the killing of stephen lawrence, has been identified in a bbc investigation. he is matthew white, who died two years ago. he has never been publicly named before — and the bbc has found that the metropolitan police seriously mishandled key evidence related to him. stephen was 18 when he was murdered, in a racist attack, by a gang of
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young white men in south london in 1993. two of the original five prime suspects were jailed for the murder in 2012. the other three have not been convicted of the crime. our correspondent daniel de simone reports. stephen lawrence, the victim of the most notorious racist murder in british history. 30 years on, we reveal disastrous police failures and identify a key suspect for the first time. stephen was killed by a gang of young white men in eltham, south london, in 1993. the met police's handling of the case led to the force being branded institutionally racist. they had no intention of finding the people who killed my son. i've got no confidence in these people to do anything when it comes down to this case. there were five prime suspects. two were finally convicted a decade ago. but stephen's friend,
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duwayne brooks, who survived the attack, said there were six attackers. our investigation today identifies a new suspect for the first time, this man, matthew white, and reveals serious failings by the met. white's stepfather contacted the met after the murder, but the wrong name for him was put into a database and the lead was not pursued. a new investigator traced the right man 20 years later. i knocked on his door and said, "i'm coming to talk to you about stephen lawrence's murder", to which he said, "you're rushing this job, aren't you, officer?" he actually said that to me. the stepfather said white admitted to being present at the attack. it wasn'tjust him. another witness had given a statement to the met years before, in 2000, saying white told him he was part of the attack. and i've got surveillance photos from 1993, that show white looked
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like the unidentified lead attacker described by stephen's friend and eyewitnesses. white died in this bedsit in 2021, a year after the met stopped investigating stephen's murder. scotland yard told us matthew white was arrested and interviewed in 2000 and in 2013, and that prosecutors twice said there wasn't enough evidence to charge. the evidence relating to matthew white implicates the three prime suspects, who remain free. deputy assistant commissioner matt ward told us... "unfortunately, too many mistakes were made in the initial investigation, and the impact of them continues to be seen. on the 30th anniversary of stephen's murder, commissioner sir mark rowley apologised for our failings. and i repeat that apology today." after so many police failings, will there ever be fulljustice for stephen lawrence?
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daniel de simone, bbc news. more on that in a moment. you are watching bbc news. hello. after all of the heat and the humidity of the weekend, a fresher story to take us through the week ahead. many areas did see some heavy thunderstorms overnight sunday, but to the south of the uk, many spots are still staying stubbornly dry. the cracked ground here in hampshire and in terms of any meaningful rain for southernmost counties of england, perhaps later on this week. there is something to come. i'll show you that in a moment. here we are, though, this monday with high pressure to the south of the uk, low pressure pulling away to the northeast. a few showers to come through the remainder of the day across the northern half of the uk most of them fading out, though, once the sun begins to set. central and eastern areas staying clear overnight towards the west, a bit more cloud arriving,
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the breeze lifting a little. a cooler night than last night. in many spots last night, temperatures didn't get out of the mid—teens. they will be lower tonight, perhaps as low as six degrees somewhere in eastern scotland. and then through tuesday, an area of low pressure tries to approach from the atlantic, feeding in a lot of high cloud, turning sunshine, hazy, some rain into northern england, northern ireland and scotland as we go into the afternoon. to the south, bright skies. to the south, bright skies. highs of 21, 22 degrees, highs of 21, 22 degrees, 16 or 17 for northern scotland. 16 or 17 for northern scotland. and then overnight and into and then overnight and into wednesday, we really start to pull wednesday, we really start to pull in some humidity from the south. in some humidity from the south. again — tuesday night. again — tuesday night. and then for wednesday daytime, quite a lot of cloud around some heavier and more persistent rain heavier and more persistent rain getting into scotland, getting into scotland, northern england and then some showers potentially running across eastern england. they could at times be heavy and thunder. and you can see the temperatures here have come back up again up into the mid twenties, 25 degrees, 17, 18 across most of scotland and northern ireland.
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and then it's what this trailing weather front does on thursday. weather front does on thursday, that is the biggest question possibly in our forecast for the week ahead. will it stick around close to the southeast of the uk, bringing some much needed rain here or will it whisk away a little faster? current thinking has it perhaps bringing a decent amount of rain to the south east of england on thursday, 10—15 millimetres for some areas. but as we look at our forecast day on day, that is just changing a little. so we will firm that up close to the time for you. but as you can see, towards the end of the week, we move back to that fresher feeling air.

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