tv The Context BBC News June 28, 2023 8:00pm-8:30pm BST
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hello, a very warm welcome to the programme. days after putin's hold on power was put into question, russia has hit ukraine hard, with deadly strikes on civilians in kramatorsk. also on the programme tonight: i have been speaking to the president of iraq in his first english—speaking tv interview. he tells me that after years of fighting and corruption, iraq is now a stable country that is open for new investment and partnerships. the first parts of the tourist submersible that imploded on a deep dive to the titanic have been seen for the first time since the incident. thames water is in urgent funding talks to avoid collapse.
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the uk's biggest water firm services over a quarter of the country but has fallen billions of pounds into debt. and a bbc investigation finds paedophiles are using artificial intelligence technology to create and sell life—like child sexual abuse material. we'll talk to a child safety expert about what they want to see done. but we start with the situation in ukraine and the horrifying details of a russian missile attack on a restaurant in kramatorsk. 11 people were killed and rescue workers have spent most of the day, going through the rubble, looking for any survivors. kramatorsk is in ukraine's eastern donetsk region. it's under ukrainian control but close to parts of the country occupied by russia. this was the scene after the attack. it was a popular, busy restaurant, with many families eating out before the nightly curfew. dozens of people were injured the missile also damaged nearby apartment buildings and shops.
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among the dead were two 14—year—old twins, yulia and anna aksenchenko. president zelensky said the attack showed russia deserved defeat. our correspondent andrew harding has the latest from the scene in kramatorsk. i'm in the centre of kramatorsk, where the missiles hit. and the blast area around it is huge, there are buildings all around me, hundreds of metres away, that were damaged. right behind me is the place that took what seems to be the hardest hit, a restaurant popular with locals, with soldiers, with journalists and aid workers. i went there a lot myself. and we understand that rescue workers are still looking for many survivors who may still be trapped underneath the concrete. we have heard saws and other lifting equipment as those workers try to dig through the rubble. why this particular spot was targeted? we don't know if it was deliberately targeted by two russian missiles,
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but it is clearly a popular area in the centre of town, and whatever the russians may or may not have been trying to target, it was clear that this was a big city and a busy time of the evening with many, many civilians around. and as we've seen so often in this conflict, many civilian casualties. the strikes come just days after a weekend of instability in russia, where the wagner mercenary group staged a rebellion against the country's military leadership. in the end, that mutiny proved short—lived, coming to a halt when wagner leader yevgeny prigozhin told his troops to stand down, just hundreds of kilometres away from russia's capital moscow. on tuesday, belarus�*s leader aleksandr lukashenko revealed that the wagner chief flew to the belarus capital, minsk, but there's uncertainty now over the wagner leader's exact current location after his plane was seen flying back to st petersburg.
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and there are concerns in poland about what prigozhin�*s rival in minsk means for their security. the polish government has said they will be strengthening the border with belarus, to protect against any wagner trip that might now move to the country. we can speak now to kristine berzina, the german marshall fund, a non—partisan think tank. she focuses on geostrategic analysis within europe. thank you so much forjoining us here on bbc news. let me ask you, first of all, how has prigozhin and what's happened over the weekend changed the status quote in russia, especially in terms of putin and his power? especially in terms of putin and his ower? , ., , especially in terms of putin and his ower? , .,, ., ., ., especially in terms of putin and his ower? , ., ., ., , .,~ , especially in terms of putin and his ower? , w, , , ., power? this was a ma'or shake-up for the putin regime. — power? this was a ma'or shake-up for the putin regime. if_ power? this was a major shake-up for the putin regime. if there _ power? this was a major shake-up for the putin regime. if there is _ power? this was a major shake-up for the putin regime. if there is one - the putin regime. if there is one thing that most took for granted, both in europe and the us, as well as in beijing, it was a sense that there is stability and longevity in russia, in moscow with the regime. you like it or not, he is going to
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stay there, and suddenly with this mad dash towards moscow that was stopped two hours away from moscow, there was a sense that there was instability possible in moscow, that the putin regime does not have to live as long as putin does, and there are other options, and right now, president putin is desperately trying to do clean—up, to change the narrative, to downplay what happened, the vulnerability of this past weekend, and yet the cracks are already there. are these fatal? are they not? it is unclear. i do not think we are going to know any time soon, but the option, the light coming through a crack, the possibility that there could be a different political future of any kind in russia, is something new. we don't know what that would look like. it does not necessarily mean peace, democracy, release of political prisoners and familiar,
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normal, democratic regime by any means, but there is an inherent object ability now in moscow that has massive implications dash make inherent unpredictable to. for russian people, for russia, but for everyone around russia as well. let's talk about the wagner group, because now we are assuming that some or many of the group are in belarus. what kind of an impact is that what you have on how the neto views the region? we have heard about pullen being worried about that border. —— poland being worried. that border. -- poland being worried. . . ., that border. -- poland being worried. , , ., , ., worried. this is an unusual developing- _ worried. this is an unusual developing. for— worried. this is an unusual developing. for the - worried. this is an unusual developing. for the most i worried. this is an unusual- developing. for the most part, lukashenko, the president of belarus, has not been an independent actor or a notable actor on the world stage. he has basically been a yes—man to putin, allowing russia to station troops and other equipment, to train troops in belarus, but now to train troops in belarus, but now to have a semi—autonomous figure like prigozhin in belarus makes lukashenko also seem more
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semi—autonomous, which means it is unclear who is calling all the shots, it is unclear what degree of agency or intentions lukashenko or putin or prigozhin have, but if there are a lot more troops, very skilled and worrisome troops, the wagner people have been accused of atrocities in africa, in syria, in ukraine, if you have these trips in belarus, so close that nato borders, this will make it incumbent upon nato to look very seriously at its borders and to make it unquestionable that any kind of testing of the nato border in the baltics or in poland would immediately fail, and that means sending troops like germany has decided to station 4000 permanent troops in with the way neo, that came after the prigozhin mutiny, the kind of strong signal but real fundamental support along the eastern flank, will be essential,
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because we don't know what comes next out of russia. we don't know the nature of belarus and prigozhin and lukashenko and we don't want to be caught off guard in any possible scenario. . be caught off guard in any possible scenario. , �* ., , scenario. kristine berzina, it is aood to scenario. kristine berzina, it is good to talk— scenario. kristine berzina, it is good to talk to _ scenario. kristine berzina, it is good to talk to you, _ scenario. kristine berzina, it is good to talk to you, as - scenario. kristine berzina, it isj good to talk to you, as always, scenario. kristine berzina, it is i good to talk to you, as always, to get your point of view and insight. i think you for your time. thank you very much. the wreckage of the titan submersible, which imploded while exploring the wreck of the titanic has been recovered and brought back to shore. five people died when the titan broke apart close to the sea floor, less than two hours after it had begun its dive. a crane was used to unload the debris from the horizon arctic ship in the harbour at the canadian port of stjohn�*s. canadian police have said they are investigating the fatalities. earlier, our science correspondent jonathan amos told me more about what was found. when all of the search and rescue ships left the scene, one vessel was
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left. that was horizon arctic, which had a deep—sea robot, and it was tasked with pulling up as much debris from the titan sub as possible, and that ship that brought that debris into date, ten days after this catastrophic accident on the bottom of the atlantic ocean, and we have got to see some of the items that it has been possible to pick up. just to remind you of the construction of the titan sub, it was essentially a cylinder, a carbon fibre cylinder, with two titanium and caps at either end. they have been able to recover those titanium and caps. we saw them being hoisted ashore. 0ne and caps. we saw them being hoisted ashore. one of them, the front cab, which would only have a porthole, a window, that window was missing. he could tell because the voiced tethers they were losing too lifted up tethers they were losing too lifted up were going through the hole where the porthole would have been. what has that meant? we don't know. we also know the landing frames,
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various superficial coverings, there was an opened and they also lift up and i was lifted ashore, and we also saw little bits and pieces, but nothing that was very easy to make out because of because all times, they were trained to cover things up. the question is can have they got enough now for people to re—construct what happened? to reconstruct what happened but also identify where the cause of the failure occurred for that catastrophic implosion. but we don't know is that there has been any signs of human remains, but i'm afraid because of the energy involved in that event ten days ago, it is unlikely any human remains would have ever be recovered. == would have ever be recovered. -- whatever would have ever be recovered. —— whatever be recovered. that is jonathan amos,
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that isjonathan amos, our science correspondent, on that story. the uk's biggest water supplier, thames water, is in trouble. there are reports that it could be on the brink of collapse. it's had a number of isses in recent years, with sewage spills and leaks, not to mention it's got around £14 billion of debt. now thames water is in talks to secure extra funding and the government says it is ready to act in a worst case scenario. what does that all mean? with me now is dr ewan mcgaughey, who is a reader in law at king's college london and specialises in public services and regulated industries. what does that mean, in terms of what scenarios could lie ahead for teams water?— teams water? that is a great question- — teams water? that is a great question. i am _ teams water? that is a great question. i am not _ teams water? that is a great question. i am not sure - teams water? that is a great question. i am not sure what teams water? that is a great - question. i am not sure what the government wants to do yet. it's level of failed to engage in trying to get proper water services to british bill payers has been incredible. i think it is worth stepping back and seeing that there's been £72 billion paid out to private water companies in england since privatisation. there lived up with £53 billion of debt. thames
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water has got an incredible 14 billion of that. one option is to go into a special administration, insolvency procedure, another option perhaps after that, perhaps without insolvency, is it could be taken into temporary public ownership, but i think it is really important to see that the shareholders who have profited so much cash, £i.4 billion in dividend since 2022, one million for "1.6 —— 1.6 million. the shareholders who run this company into the ground need to be held accountable, and also the creditors who are owed lots of debt, that is really big banks in britain and germany and america, they probably need to take a haircut as well, because all of this money is coming straight out of the pockets of londoners and people who live in the thames valley. they've seen water bills rise by 40% since privatisation, they're talking now
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about another 40% rise to pay for the investment that has been lacking, and so the government does not really have very many good options, and that is a real big policy failure privatisation. what policy failure privatisation. what would a public _ policy failure privatisation. what would a public ownership mean for people's bills? what would it mean for other issues we talk about a lot in the uk, in particular raw sewage being dumped into rivers in dc? —— rivers in the sea? a, being dumped into rivers in dc? -- rivers in the sea?— rivers in the sea? a great question for if ou rivers in the sea? a great question for if you go _ rivers in the sea? a great question for if you go to _ rivers in the sea? a great question for if you go to scotland, - rivers in the sea? a great question for if you go to scotland, scottish. for if you go to scotland, scottish water has roughly 10% lower bills than the average bills being paid for water in england, where everything is privatised, so we can see right around the world england is an extreme outlier in having privatised its water services. 90% of countries interested in a public water, and that is because we can see that water is and natural monopoly, bills will be lower in public ownership —— a natural monopoly for some it is absolutely right to point out that old—style
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nationalisation you just have a board of directors appointed, topped down by disinterested at whitehall, is not necessarily the white which you go. paris water, recently brought back into public ownership, they give a voice in the governing body for the staff who work at the utility of also service users, they have a voice, they can put down that play a part in governance, and that is what really modern public ownership and public governance ought to look like —— they can also play a part. all stakeholders involved. , ., play a part. all stakeholders involved. , . ~. , involved. 0k, dr ewan mcgaughey, it is aood to involved. ok, dr ewan mcgaughey, it is good to talk— involved. 0k, dr ewan mcgaughey, it is good to talk to _ involved. 0k, dr ewan mcgaughey, it is good to talk to you. _ involved. 0k, dr ewan mcgaughey, it is good to talk to you. thank - involved. 0k, dr ewan mcgaughey, it is good to talk to you. thank you - is good to talk to you. thank you forjoining us on bbc. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. let's look at some of the other stories making headlines today. conservative london mayoral hopeful daniel korski has pulled out of the contest, after being accused of groping novelist and tv producer daisy goodwin during a meeting at 10 downing street in 2013.
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mr korski said he "categorically" denied the allegation against him. he said he was withdrawing from the race because of the pressure on his family and the difficulty now in having his campaign message heard. the hollywood actor kevin spacey has appeared in court in london accused of a string of sexual offences. the oscar—winning actor is facing a dozen charges. he denies the claims and has already pled not guilty. 0fcom has launched an investigation into telecoms company bt following a major disruption to 999 call services on sunday. emergency services across the country reported emergency calls were failing to connect, because of a technical fault. bt, which manages 999, has apologised for the problems. you're live with me on the context on bbc news. clashes are being reported in france
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as dumb after the shooting death of as dumb after the shooting death of a teenage boy by a police officer in a teenage boy by a police officer in a paris suburb on tuesday. —— after the shooting death. this is the second night of rioting. 31 people were arrested and 24 police were injured, in a night of disturbances. the teenager, named as nael m, died from bullet wounds to the chest and he's the second person in france to have been killed in a police shooting at a traffic stop this year. i am nowjoined by sebastien roche, sociologist and research director at the french national centre for scientific research, specialised in police violence. sebastian, before we talk about the ins and outs of what happened, do we have any more information about what exact we happened during what was supposed to be a routine traffic stop? supposed to be a routine traffic sto - ? ~ ., supposed to be a routine traffic sto . ? . ., ., supposed to be a routine traffic sto - ? ~ ., ., .,, supposed to be a routine traffic sto? . ., ., ., supposed to be a routine traffic sto-? ~ ., ., ., ., stop? we have two videos from two different angles, _ stop? we have two videos from two different angles, and _ stop? we have two videos from two different angles, and it _ stop? we have two videos from two different angles, and it is _ stop? we have two videos from two different angles, and it is clearly . different angles, and it is clearly seen on these videos that the car was stopped and did the police officer was on the side of the car and he was brandishing a gun towards
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the driver, and when the driver tried to drive away from the stop, he shot him. 50 tried to drive away from the stop, he shot him-— tried to drive away from the stop, he shot him. so after the shooting, we saw people _ he shot him. so after the shooting, we saw people taking _ he shot him. so after the shooting, we saw people taking to _ he shot him. so after the shooting, we saw people taking to the - he shot him. so after the shooting, l we saw people taking to the streets, people rioting. why is there so much anger over this particular event? 0r anger over this particular event? or is this anger targeted particular at the police, and if so, why? it is tarueted the police, and if so, why? it is targeted both _ the police, and if so, why? it is targeted both at _ the police, and if so, why? it is targeted both at the _ the police, and if so, why? it 3 targeted both at the police and at this very specific event. it is not an isolated event. there have been not two but three people shot dead by the police in france, as part of traffic stops, and there have been last year 13 people shot dead by the police in france, which makes friends the leading country for the number of people shot dead by the police in traffic stops, so it is quite a big issue —— makes france the leading country. in addition to
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that, the person shot dead today belongs to a minority group and therefore on top of police violence, therefore on top of police violence, there is the issue of police determination in —— police discrimination. determination in -- police discrimination.— determination in -- police discrimination. �*, ., discrimination. let's look at some ofthe discrimination. let's look at some of the anger _ discrimination. let's look at some of the anger that _ discrimination. let's look at some of the anger that is _ discrimination. let's look at some of the anger that is targeted - of the anger that is targeted towards police. you say there have been many of these kinds of shootings. what is the government now saying that it is going to do about this? the now saying that it is going to do about this?— now saying that it is going to do about this? ., ., about this? the government at the moment, about this? the government at the moment. the _ about this? the government at the moment, the president _ about this? the government at the moment, the president of - about this? the government at the moment, the president of the - about this? the government at the i moment, the president of the prime minister, the minister of interior, they have been a truly cautious in a public statement. usually, they tend to write a blank check to the police and the police did what they had to do, but this time given the videos, i think, they are extremely cautious in what they say and they try a rather more balanced approached to a
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police homicide. qm. rather more balanced approached to a police homicide.— police homicide. 0k, well, thank you ve much police homicide. 0k, well, thank you very much indeed, _ police homicide. 0k, well, thank you very much indeed, sebastien, - police homicide. 0k, well, thank you very much indeed, sebastien, for - very much indeed, sebastien, for joining us and expend what has been happening in france, and of course, as always, there will be more on the bbc�*s website on this story. sebastian, thank you. a bbc investigation has found that paedophiles are using artificial intelligence and virtual reality technology to create and sell child sexual abuse material. they market the illegal content using accounts on mainstream platforms. responding to the bbc�*s investigation, the government says ai abuse is no different to other kinds and tech companies will also be required to identify and remove it. angus crawford reports. since ai—generated images became possible, there has been this huge flood. 0ctavia is a journalist who spent months researching this world where paedophiles use al to create and share images of child abuse. the volume is just huge,
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so people will say, "0h, we will aim to do at least 1,000 images a month." they've got thousands of followers, some of these people. but then it does get... we didn't pay to subscribe, and we didn't view any illegal material, but we could see the comments and hashtags. it's notjust very young girls. it's often, yeah, talking about toddlers and just the most awful stuff. you know, this one, we obviously couldn't read out. but, you know, ijust didn't even know words like that existed. it's really shocking. yeah. and often using the word "rape". the images are created using stable diffusion, and they're so lifelike, police now fear they won't be able to tell the difference between these and real ones. to identify where it is, where a actual child, wherever it is in the world, is being abused, as opposed to an artificial or synthetic child. that extra demand, then,
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can mean that it's more difficult for us to be identify where is it where a child absolutely needs to be safeguarded. i am nowjoined by deborah denis, the ceo of the lucy faithfull foundation, a child protection charity dedicated solely to preventing child sexual abuse. imean, i mean, this is really terrifying, isn't it remind people why this is in many ways as dangerous as the real thing. in many ways as dangerous as the realthing. first in many ways as dangerous as the real thing. first of all, there is no question it is as dangerous as the ., . no question it is as dangerous as the . , ., ., the real thing. in terms of what ha--ens the real thing. in terms of what happens when _ the real thing. in terms of what happens when people - the real thing. in terms of what happens when people are - the real thing. in terms of what happens when people are using the real thing. in terms of what - happens when people are using and giving sexual images of children, if it is a real image of a child or naia image of a child, that would be very harmfulfor the naia image of a child, that would be very harmful for the person using the images, so also may think it is harmless, they can justify it, for what they are doing, it is very
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harmful for them what they are doing, it is very harmfulfor them through what they are doing, it is very harmful for them through the viewing of the images. and what i mean by thatis of the images. and what i mean by that is many of the people who we work with who have offended online for the part of the addressing of their behaviour, so that they don't offend again, is that they have to stop engaging about fantasies about children and sexual fantasy about children and sexual fantasy about children can reinforce the things that lead to abuse, and ai images will do will is reinforced that. what can we do about this? it seems that we did a bit of wild west out there online when it comes to ai and vr, the way that it is used. and what is particular worrying about this is this are all on mainstream platforms. i this is this are all on mainstream latforms. ~ . this is this are all on mainstream platforms-— this is this are all on mainstream latforms. ~ , ~ ., , platforms. i think but we know his law-enforcement _ platforms. i think but we know his law-enforcement agencies - platforms. i think but we know his law-enforcement agencies are - law—enforcement agencies are operating in these spaces interests are being made. and what we know is that ourselves and other charities are looking into this. we also know academics and researchers are exploring the issue and the collaboration between us is exactly what we need. we need to understand the threat, the insights, and then we need to be able to take preventative measures. but really we
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also need the text companies to step up also need the text companies to step up here. you've seen on the open web how dangerous it can be for children, we have seen how offending can take place unchallenged on platforms, and what we have here is a little bit of an opportunity to get into these spaces in a way we did not do with the internet the first time around. internet 1.0 was not intended to be for child sexual abuse, but it is. these spaces are not you intended to be used for sexual abuse, not you intended to be used for sexualabuse, but not you intended to be used for sexual abuse, but they will be, and we have a window of opportunity where we need to come together and look at the threat and understand the problem and get the right measures in place as soon as possible. do measures in place as soon as possible-— measures in place as soon as ossible. , ., ~ , measures in place as soon as -ossible. ,., ~ , ., possible. do you think there is not enou:h possible. do you think there is not enough pooling — possible. do you think there is not enough pooling of _ possible. do you think there is not enough pooling of resources - possible. do you think there is not. enough pooling of resources between people who do research on this and the authorities? i people who do research on this and the authorities?— the authorities? i think we are t in: the authorities? i think we are trying really — the authorities? i think we are trying really hard, _ the authorities? i think we are trying really hard, actually. i the authorities? i think we are i trying really hard, actually. there are couple of working groups that are couple of working groups that are looking at this that include academics, include researchers, and we need to speed up the pace of that. there is a really serious
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challenge of the scale of the open web already for some young people and children, child sexual abuse images are circulating, children and young people are vulnerable and add risk on the open web. we have not solved that problem yet. so there competing priorities to address the problem we have and also think about and address the problem that is coming towards us rapidly now. {lilia coming towards us rapidly now. 0k, deborah denis, thank you very much indeed forjoining us here on the context on bbc news. it is important to talk about this, so i think you once again for your time. do stay with us here on the context on bbc news, because in a few minutes' time, we will be broadcasting an exclusive first interview in the english language between me and the president of iraq. we discussed many, many things, including to a degree iraq's current situation, the relative peace and stability and how the belief is that iraq is ready for business. we also discussed climate
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change. it is a big issue any country right now. there is a drought that is causing a lot of displacement among the iraqi people, so do stay tuned for that interview with the iraqi president in a few minutes' time. you are watching the context on bbc news. i am maryam moshiri. hello there. there has been a lot of cloud around today, cloudy skies at lord's for the test match. some parts of england, though, have seen some sunshine coming through. for example, here in hampshire, it's been very muggy and very warm across many parts of england. scotland and northern ireland will be turning cooler and fresher with some sunshine around, mind you. that sunshine followed the rain that we started the day with. and this band of rain has been quite heavy as it's pushed across scotland, had a few thunderstorms in northern england. the rain is becoming more fragmented. it's going to squeeze down through the midlands, head to the southeast of england
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and across east anglia later, and still a few heavy bursts of rain in there as well. clearer skies will continue to follow from the west. a few more showers along the west coast of scotland, but a chillier night for scotland and northern ireland. single figure temperatures here, much warmer and still quite humid across east anglia and the southeast because we've still got rain around first thing tomorrow on that weather front there. it does shuffle away, and then we'll introduce this westerly breeze that will bring cooler and fresher air for all of us tomorrow. but that rain will hang around into the morning across east anglia and the southeast, then it will clear away, and then it'll be sunny spells, a few showers for a while in northern ireland, pushing eastwards across scotland and the odd shower likely across england and wales, although many places here will probably be dry in the afternoon. temperature—wise not too impressive, despite the sunshine, it is cooler air. so 18—19 celsius quite widely, a bit below par, really, for this time of the year. weather�*s coming in from the atlantic, keeping this unsettled theme going. more weatherfronts bringing cloud
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and rain into friday, wrapped around that area of low pressure, that's going to hang around through the weekend. we'll look at that in a moment, but for the eastern areas of the uk, friday starts dry and bright with some sunshine. it does cloud over, though, from the west. a little bit of light rain or drizzle mainly over western hills and coast. the more persistent rain comes into scotland and northern ireland as the wind picks up, and look at the temperatures, only 16 celsius in glasgow, 21 celsius perhaps in london. that area of low pressure, i mentioned it, it's going to hang around to the north of scotland, and around that we're going to find some stronger winds, particularly for northern parts of the uk, touching gale force maybe in northern scotland. and that's where we're going to see most of the rain saturday and into sunday. some showers and a bit of sunshine for scotland and northern ireland, one or two showers for northern england. but further south, it should be dry.
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