tv The Briefing BBC News July 2, 2023 4:30pm-5:00pm BST
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2,500 soldiers and guards. and the defence minister, the wagner mutineers wanted sacked. having survived it a time to say thank you. translation: you have _ saved our motherland from upheaval. the lives, security, and the freedom of our citizens. in fact, you have stopped a civil war. in fact, the reality was rather different. the wagner soldiers, who had been cheered on the streets of rostov, had only stopped the rebellion out of the kremlin did a deal promising not to press charges against them and their leader yevgeny prigozhin. still, kremlin spin is present in this is a triumph for their leader. the mutiny by mercenaries was a major challenge to vladimir putin's authority, but, the uprising is
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over. and now, the kremlin is trying to change the optics to reframe what happened as a victory for the president, and for russia. translation: but where is yevgeny prigozhin? under his deal with the kremlin, he agreed to leave russia for belarus. today, the leader of belarus, alexander lukashenko, said yes, he is here, but in exile, could mr prigozhin still be a threat to the kremlin? not if vladimir putin could help it. he is now suggesting that investigators wagner wagner group's finances. a less than subtle hint to the wagner chief not to make trouble. the last few days have put him under huge pressure. now president putin is determined to show he is in control.
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here in the ukrainian capital, i have spent most of the day talking to senior members of president zelenskyy�*s of president zelensky�*s administration to see the mimic of the current situation. there has to be major pinch of salt when they are fighting what they believe it is a life—and—death struggle for the independence of this country, but it is interesting nonetheless to get their opinions. and all of them said they believed that president putin was effectively finished, that the countdown on his future. and they also said that there were, they believed, groups within moscow who were waiting to take their chance to push their preferred candidate for the succession when it ended. i emphasise this is the opinion of the leadership here,
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so you have to accept that, that they are looking at it from a certain angle. one more thing, too, i asked about the progress of the ukrainian offensive, and one of the senior advisers said to me, look, the mutiny did not make much difference on the battlefield, because it did not last very long. and another one said, when i ask about progress, he made a face and did something like that, as of today, it is going slowly and they have not got all that far, although he was of course hopeful that things were going to get better from their point of perspective. and what i think they are trying to do is manage expectations, in case any of their western allies get overexcited, because despite everything that has happened in moscow, the russian army is still a formidable foe for the ukrainians.
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in nanterre... thousands gathered to mark the void left by one local teenager and the rate that flowed in to fill it. and the rage that flowed in to fill it. the violence here last night still mapped onto the surrounding streets in ash and debris. nahel�*s mother within a chance of police, assassins. nahel�*s mother leading a chant of "police, assassins." evan came from a suburb on the other side of paris, but he said the problems there were just the same. translation: we do not have jobs. we do not get hired if we do not lie on lcd. if we do not lie on cvs. there is nothing for us, and on top of that, we get attacked
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by the people who are supposed to protect us. this is enough. this is one offence too many. the march ended this afternoon in a different kind of protest, burning cars, tear gas, clashes with police. one local resident told us her own teenage son had been mistreated by police, and that the violence following nahel�*s death was justified. translation: | would not be - surprised of the trouble continues as long as there are no consequences for this police officer. i am not in the heads of the young people here, but what is happening here is justified _ but what is happening here is justified. parents are not... the officer is now in custody and fitting it onto voluntary homicide. the french interior minister said it was time for the violence to stop. translation: last night's riots and burning a school, _ a town hall, a social centre, that has nothing to do with what happened. those responsible for the trouble should now go home. but nobody we spoke to thought the anger he had run its course. there is anger at french president emmanuel macron and his government, there is anger at politics
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in general, but there's also a deep disappointment with the french state and the broken promises that people feel it makes to them. and the government is worried that that deep disappointment might fuel a pattern of nightly riots, and so it is trying to curb the unrest, really on two different ways, and it is working something of a tight rope between them. on the one hand, it wants to show that it understands the anger people feel towards the police actions that led to nahel�*s death. on the other, to sticking an increase tough policing approach violence on the streets, and the atmosphere here today was pretty tense at times, and i think there are many people here in paris tonight watching very carefully what tonight will bring.
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george birnbaum may be one of the most influential people in the world you have never heard of, a sought—after political consultant who has helped a string of world leaders to power. benjamin netanyahu, viktor orban, as well as a serbian president, an austrian chancellor, and prime ministers in romania, the czech republic, and even the mayor of kyiv, vitali klitschko. politically conservative with a strong sense of hisjewish identity, hejoined forces with arthur finkelstein in the 1990s. finkelstein was famous for making liberal a dirty word for many in america. a brilliant mathematician who liked to crunch electoral numbers. while george birnbaum worked on the campaign strategy. their first big joint success was benjamin netanyahu's surprise victory in israel in 1996 against the strong favourite. how did you help
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benjamin netanyahu win? that is a fascinating case. when we came in... we took the system, a different system then, many people in the west may realise. your tv time is limited by the government. we came in and the idea of repetition. we would repeat the same advert several times in a four—minute block. the message was about jerusalem, i think? there were... two main messages there, but the main one was that paris would dividejerusalem, and peace through security. in israel, there is a dividing line, and has been for many years, between the right on the left. the left by and large, this goes to the line language of messaging.
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want peace at almost any cost, whereas the right side, we want security first, then peace. so part of the language we used was benjamin netanyahu. your piece, we took the language of the left and the rate of the left and the right and put them together, because back then, the other dividing line was people who identified first as a jew versus people who identified first as an israeli. they were very different in the way they acted and the way the voters. they acted and the way they voters. so we needed to make sure that the people who self—identified asjews, tend to vote more right of centre than left of centre, turned out to vote, and we had to use the one which of both camps, the palace will dividejerusalem was really meant to drive out the voters right of centre, and identified as jews first. was it true? would he have divided jerusalem? it is hard to say. whether there would be a line down jerusalem, i don't think so, but things will be given to the palestinian authority as part of a peace deal. finkelstein and birnbaum taught benjamin netanyahu the art
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of reducing his campaign to a few simple slogans and then repeating them until enough people believe him. he fell from power in 1999, spent ten years in opposition before coming back, then remained israel's prime minister for the next 12 years. he finally lost in 2021, but bounced back last year for his sixth term as prime minister. mr netanyahu spoke of the need to reinvent yourself as the leader of the disenfranchised masses, face—to—face with a mythical elite. was that you and arthur finkelstein�*s idea, too? i will say this — any country anywhere in the world were people anywhere in the world where people feel disenfranchised, they are not getting the opportunity that others get, and some unease represent their choice. and i will say that in most
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elections, people vote from the heart not the head, but hoping the strongest emotion in elections. so what that means is different to every individual. could be a betterjob, a better education for their child, a better car, who knows what that means to someone? when you come in to help politicians plan a political campaign, is that looking for, helping them to find ways to represent the disenfranchised masses? it is not the disenfranchised, i will tell you this, the most important aspect a politician running for office can have, the most important attribute, is that if a voter looks at them and says, he or she is one of us. they understand my problems, they understand what i go through every day. so i think it is an exaggeration to say we pray on the desires of the disenfranchised. no. we talk to average people, to real people, and let them know, we understand what you're going through, we understand what your challenges are. we are going to make those challenges easier and better
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for you, we are going to give you a better tomorrow. that was ronald reagan's message, that was donald trump's message in his first election. benjamin netanyahu introduced the finkelstein birnbaum duo to hungarian politician viktor orban in 1998. then in opposition, orban and his party won the 2010 election and have stayed in power ever since, using the techniques they taught him. it is not just it is notjust a way of simplifying your own message, but identifying an enemy, one that the public is told they ought to fear. first a suitable candidate needs to be found, one that cannot fight back. george birnbaum once said that viktor orban and benjamin netanyahu were their best pupils. he won in 2010 with a landslide, then he faced a problem, he had annihilated the opposition. you helped him find a new opponent, george soros.
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tell me about that. i have a problem with any leader in any country staying in powerfor too long. the other thing that i have come to learn over all of these years of working around the world is... i also have a real problem with outside money influencing elections. where there are it is a foreign national going into another country or... in the united states, you have a large donor in michigan putting money into a race in california. i have a real problem with money influencing elections from the outside. and george soros, although he is hungarian, i will say this, i am the son and grandson of holocaust survivors. george soros is a survivor. he has built an empire. i have enormous respect, especially as a jew,
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for what george soros has been able to do post—world war ii, post—holocaust. i have a real problem with george soros' ideology and using his wealth to project that i do the world. george soros set up an open society foundation in hungary in the late 1980s, supporting young democrats including, at that time, viktor orban. but viktor orban's growing interest in an illiberal democracy increasing democracy increasingly clashed with soros' vision of a liberal one. but soros, like george birnbaum and arthur finkelstein, wasjewish. identifying soros as an enemy from a country in which more than half a millionjews were deported and murdered in the second world war risked replacing the demons of the past with the demons of the present. the new threat, according to viktor orban, came from muslim immigrants, brought into europe,
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however implausably, by another outsider, by a jew. although george birnbaum stopped working for viktor orban in 2015, and arthur finkelstein died in 2017, viktor orban continued to vilify george soros. the duo had given viktor orban one of the accused is remarkable electoral success. in may 2017, giant billboards went up around the country selling george soros with the slogan: do not let him have the last laugh. it was around the country and seemed to repeat a trope people saw in the 1930s of the grinning jew, the laughing financier exploiting the public, having a malign effect. what do you think of that campaign? i do not see it as an anti—semitic trope. i think it was seen as this extravagant kind of secretive multi—billionaire spreading his influence. which is, of course, what the nazis accused
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thejews of in the 1930s. sure, but in a very different way, i think to compare the maligning of an entire people to him is very different, very unfair. and the fact he wasjewish, was that of a discussed between you and viktor orban or his advisers? never once came up. never once. did it cross your mind? not at any point. in 2017, my 1a son was playing football, and whenever one of the kids shouted stop, another kid shouted soros. is that not the danger of powerful political messaging, and it goes very deep in the society and actually divides that society even more than it was before? it is interesting, political campaigns are all based on one thing, advertising, and winning any advertising campaign
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whether you are coca—cola or a politician is getting people to remember and repeat the message. that is the most critical thing. we call it message penetration. if you turn one politician into a hero, do you have to demonise his or her opponent? you don't always have to demonise the opponent. but it can help? what is that? but it can help? it depends, it depends on where the votes are. it is good to have an enemy, and very rarely... not in a way that again, i would never run a campaign attacking somebody based on their heritage. but it is valid? on their ideology, you can absolutely demonise someone.
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i have no problem with that, elections are about ideologies and people choosing a set of policies that they think will make their lives better. this polarisation, eroding the centre, getting rid of the centre where everyone used to feel comfortable, aren't you one of the prophets, as it were, of polarisation in order to win elections? no, i think in fact that is very wrong. if you polarise too many people, you will not get to a majority of votes. i think polarisation is very dangerous. in fact, it is the opposite. i think you need to find the majority of voices in order to win an election, not the small wing of the party. that works in primaries, we have in the united states primary elections, and in order to win a primary, usually the person, on the democrat and republican side, whoever takes the most extreme position wins the primary. because, at the end of the day, elections are about to on election day. and the ones who turn out are the ones who are most energised to
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turn out. and the one who aren't the most energised to turn out are the extremists. part of the problem of polarisation i think is forcing people who normally would make good candidates for office stay out of the electoral process altogether, because they do not want to be a part of what is going on. so, i think polarisation, the sense that it exists today, in the sense that it exists today, at least in the us and some other countries, is very dangerous for democracy. i am not in favour of that at all. if trump wins the republican nomination, would you work for him? no. why not? first of all, i have no desire to work in american politics, and i also do not know that... i learned this from arthur finkelstein. electing a president of the united states is a very serious business, it affects millions of people. but, it also affects billions of people. arthur said, i really have to believe 100% and love deeply
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person i am working for to be president of the united states, and he had many offers to work for different people over the years, and he said no. i feel that way about donald trump. ijust don't have the deep feeling that i would want to work for a donald trump. quite frankly, you ask me who i would want to work for me the states elections, i do not know the answer. so, the short answer is no. the long answer is, it is a very serious intellect a present of the united states, and i have to be fully behind that individual. to collect a president. the constant use of service to collect our personal data is combined with deep learning algorithms to monitor our online habits. political parties gain a remarkably accurate database of the gender, age, and personalities of the voters, and the tools to target them with new messages in real—time. donald trump and joe biden in the us, the brexit leave campaign in the uk, and viktor orban in hungary,
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learned how to create a wave of public opinion, then how to surf it. the modern campaign tools, social media, algorithms, appear to be creating an atmosphere of hatred, even mutual hatred. how worried are you by that? i am terrified by it, completely terrified. i grew up in an era where, although ideological differences, people put their country first. ronald reagan sat down with tip o'neill, bill clinton sat down with newt gingrich, put the country first. that does not exist today, and that terrifies me, because at the end of the day whether you are electing a president, senator, it is about putting the country first, people first. we have put political power first, that to be as dangerous and could mean the end of democracy in the long run, because as long as we go down this path,
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focusing on ideologies, hatred, on scaring one another, on putting power before people, we are in a lot of trouble as a society, and that's where are headed. let's talk about ukraine and russia. please. you are an adviser to vitali klitschko, mayor of kyiv. how are you helping the image of ukraine in the world? when the war started, i was very concerned. i was very concerned for ukraine, because i've been working in ukraine for many years, my wife is ukrainian, and i saw the beauty of ukrainian culture and history. but i saw from a political point of view, that by and large comedy people by and large the people did not feel that they had an identity, it ukrainian identity. an identity, a ukrainian identity.
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when the war broke out, suddenly ukraine found its identity, and so quite frankly, there's nothing i can do to help that image. that is something they did themselves, that is something when this war ends, the people of ukraine for generations should be very proud of. vladimir putin has said that liberalism has become obsolete. he depicts the world as a battle between a declining west, something that viktor orban speaks about, something that donald trump has spoken about as well. he wanted a divided europe. now he has a unified europe. he wanted a weakened nato. he now has a stronger nato. he wanted a weakened west. he now has a stronger west. he has reminded us why freedom matters, why democracy matters. i hope is that this war reminds us why we have to find ways of working together across political divides within democratic countries and not focus on the divisions. so, the ideas of liberal democracy, human rights, things which among others, george soros stands for, they are alive and kicking? notjust george soros, i think billions of people around the world stand for that. but george soros as well?
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he does, which is fantastic, and i appreciate that. there are a lot of things he stands for but i disagree with, from a political and ideological point of view, but there are places where we can always find common ground, and if that means liberal democracy and human rights is one of the places we can find common ground, i would be happy to have a coffee with him and talk to him about it. you have helped many politicians emerge as strong leaders. how should a leader in the 21st—century heal the divisions, reunify a country in a benign way? i think you need a leader who will talk to the commonality of human nature, someone who will be able to relate to what is important to everyone. it is not about ideology, it is about making sure people's hopes and dreams are realised, and that is the solution
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for diminishing this polarisation that exist today. george birnbaum, thank you very much for speaking to us today. thank you very much. hello. plenty of spells of sunshine through the rest of your sunday afternoon, into the evening too. we do have a few showers around, mainly across the northern half of the uk. so, further south, that is where you have the longer spells of dry and sunny weather, but a fairly bright and breezy sort of day. noticeable wind coming in from a west or north—westerly direction. and, it is blowing around this area of low pressure, which isjust drifting slowly across scandinavia. drawn in on that atlantic air, we are seeing a few showers, particularly affecting scotland and northern ireland in the day. a few for northern england and north wales, further south—east, you are likely to stay dry,
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some late sunshine around today. more persistent rain and cloud just lingering across the far north of scotland for the likes of caithness and sutherland and orkney, too, but overnight, most places are relatively dry and clear. so, temperatures getting down into single figures for many northern areas in particular, as we head into the early hours of monday morning. a fresh start in the day, but quite a bit of sunshine around. from the word go. it is not going to stick around everywhere, because we have more showers on the way. this system here just drifting in from the west. initially, that will bring rain across parts of wales, i think the middle part of the morning will drift further eastward into england, through the course of the day. it will tend to fragment and become showery as it does so. more rain to come across the north of scotland, with another weather front heading in there, too. sunny spells for many of us in between those showers. temperatures 13—20 degrees. a little bit below average for this stage injuly. monday is the first day of the championships at wimbledon. a lot of dry weather through the day, but as cloud
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thickens in the afternoon, there is a chance of some passing showers during the latter part of the afternoon. into tuesday, and it looks like the next area of low pressure will move and towards the southern parts of the uk. a little bit of uncertainty for tuesday on the detail of how far north any of that rain gets, perhaps south wales, much of southern england likely to see rain during the day on tuesday. sunshine and showers for the rest of the uk. so, an unsettled sort of day, and relatively cool for this stage in earlyjuly. 13—19 degrees our top temperatures on tuesday. a bit of a breeze around where you do see the showers as well. so, it is looking relatively cool and fairly unsettled over the next few days, but there is some drier and brighter weather, particularly further south. by the weekend, look at those temperatures, getting up to around 28 degrees in the london region. goodbye for now.
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live from london, this is bbc news. live from london, this is bbc news. after five makes of rioting across france, an appealfor after five makes of rioting across france, an appeal for calm after —— from the grandmother of the boy who was shot by police. two dead and 28 injured, following a mass shooting in baltimore. a search for the shooter is under way. seven new nhs gambling clinics to open in england — almost double the current number. hello, i'm gareth barlow. thank you forjoining us. the grandmother of the french teenager whose killing by police has sparked days of unrest in france has appealed for calm. speaking to french media, nahel�*s grandmother said she wants
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