so, the national phone—in, the nation's phone—in, here we go. the ashes, australia, did they play fair? that is the question we're asking. what a game, what a row, bad winners, bad losers, bad asking. what a game, what a row, bad winners, bad losers, had blood. bairstow winners, bad losers, bad blood. bairstow was stumped, three of the mcc members suspended, telling the aussies how they feel, so against the spirit of the game, how dare they conform to that stereotype? but this transcends the game, it's about the morality word, fairness, and it's about character. upholding the best standards of behaviour. you

might say, though, what a load of... it is not cricket. except it was cricket. it's not whether you win or lose, but how you play the game. if that's the case, why bother keeping the score? good luck to them, he was out, england would have done last the same. spare us the sentiment. so what do you think? i keep changing my mind on this one. did the australians play fair? that's what were discussing. and here is the news from deena campbell. thanks, nikki. a firefighter has died in france

trying to extinguish a burning vehicle set alight by rioters outside paris. around 150 arrests were made last night — down from 700 the night before. it's hoped that violence sparked by the fatal shooting of a teenager by police is now calming down. a group of backbench conservative mps has warned the government it could lose public trust if it doesn't cut net migration — which currently stands at 606,000 people each year. the new conservatives want to lower that figure to below 226,000. israel has launched a huge military operation in the occupied west bank. the israeli army says at least seven palestinians have been killed. 0vernight, israeli forces used a drone to attack a flat in the centre ofjenin s refugee camp, which it said was being used as a command centre by various militant groups. the islamist group hamas has called the attacks "barbaric aggression" the head of the international energy agency says gas prices could rise again this winter. fatih birol said a harsh winter and a strengthening chinese economy

could lead to higher energy bills. we're up and off and running. and you know what, i am not the world's greatest cricket fan, but this was terribly interesting, extremely engaging. because it does transcend this particular sport of cricket, it's about life, isn't it? we're always being told that cricket is about life as well. pivotal moment in the match, which the aussies went on to win and take a 2—0 series lead. there is that. but there is this. was it within the spirit of the game? many say absolutely not. and then, the aussie players were barracked in the famous long room. surely that's against the spirit of

the game. stuart broad said to the man whose stump bairstow, alex carey, that is all you will be remembered for. australia's captain, later booed on the podium after the game. 08085 909 693, 85058, i think we can perhaps, if somebody can confirm to me in my headphones, we can see it, we can hear it, this is what happened. commentator: �* , ., , what happened. commentator: y ., commentator: it's the last ball of the over- -- _ commentator: it's the last ball of the over... 0h! _ commentator: it's the last ball of the over... oh! so, _ commentator: it's the last ball of the over... oh! so, we _ commentator: it's the last ball of the over... oh! so, we are - commentator: it's the last ball of the over... oh! so, we are in - commentator: it's the last ball of the over... oh! so, we are in that. the over... oh! so, we are in that passage of... oh, hang on, now this is interesting. bairstow has walked out of his crease thinking it was the end of the over. carrie has flung his stumps down from long—range. i must admit i was about to hand over to long—range. i must admit i was about to hand overtojim, long—range. i must admit i was about to hand over tojim, it felt like the end of the over to me, which is what bairstow is going to say. there is no doubt he was out of his ground

because he was coming up to the pitch and talk to ben stokes. this might not be very well received if it is given out, i be honest. he looks up at the bowler, scraped at his ground, walks out and the stumps are thrown down behind him. this will be ugly. it are thrown down behind him. this will be ugly-— will be ugly. it depends on when the call will be ugly. it depends on when they call over. _ will be ugly. it depends on when they call over. he _ will be ugly. it depends on when they call over. he is _ will be ugly. it depends on when they call over. he is going - will be ugly. it depends on when they call over. he is going to - will be ugly. it depends on when they call over. he is going to be | they call over. he is going to be aiven, they call over. he is going to be given. he _ they call over. he is going to be given. he is _ they call over. he is going to be given, he is out. _ they call over. he is going to be given, he is out. that _ they call over. he is going to be given, he is out. that is - they call over. he is going to be given, he is out. that is going l they call over. he is going to be | given, he is out. that is going to go down really badly. booing. bairstow stalks off, he has had a word with the australians, they could have withdrawn the appeal and they have chosen not to. jonny bairstow has seen that as the over and has walked out of his ground. was the ball dead? if the ball isn't dadm _ was the ball dead? if the ball isn't dadm is _ was the ball dead? if the ball isn't dadm is it— was the ball dead? if the ball isn't dad... is it lack of game awareness and just— dad... is it lack of game awareness and just a _ dad... is it lack of game awareness and just a little bit of laziness from — and just a little bit of laziness from bairstow that has cost him? by the letter _ from bairstow that has cost him? by the letter of the law, if that ball is not _ the letter of the law, if that ball is not dead, then that has to be given— is not dead, then that has to be given out — is not dead, then that has to be given out. he is not dead, then that has to be given out-— given out. he will always be remembered _ given out. he will always be remembered for _ given out. he will always be remembered for this, - given out. he will always be remembered for this, alex l given out. he will always be -

remembered for this, alex carey, according to stuart broad. so... what is this spirit of the game stuff, what is this village green preservation society stuff? surely it's about winning? cricket commentator, tms legend, career comedian andy zaltzman, i heard you talking about the ethics of the game and how cricket is an example are sport when it comes to... and virtue and morality unfairness. and what a load of googlies, some might say, what did you make of it? i’m load of googlies, some might say, what did you make of it?— what did you make of it? i'm not sure i what did you make of it? i'm not sure i said. _ what did you make of it? i'm not sure i said. i— what did you make of it? i'm not sure i said, ithink— what did you make of it? i'm not sure i said, ithink i _ what did you make of it? i'm not sure i said, i thinki said - what did you make of it? i'm not sure i said, i thinki said it- what did you make of it? i'm not sure i said, i thinki said it could| sure i said, i think i said it could teach you about all those things, i'm not sure it sets an example contest the spirit of cricket is such a nebulous concept and generally it is invoked when it suits you and ignored when it

doesn't. and everyone has been looking at the bizarre preamble to the laws of cricket that refer to this spirit of cricket mad i don't know when it was written but it is a relic from a bygone age. clearly you want all sports to be played with a level of what used to be called sportsmanship. within the laws of whatever game that is. amongst the things in the spirit of cricket, respect your captain, teammates, opponents and the authority of the umpires. you might think that is relevant in this case except the umpires decision, your own conduct, the mcc fell down a little bit on that given that they are the custodians of the game, show self—discipline even when things go against you. so it is a strange thing that is sometimes applied, sometimes not. in terms of this incident in itself, i don't think the australians did anything wrong, i don't think they had any compulsion to withdraw the appeal, i

think it was an error by bairstow, he walked out of his crease too soon. i think what was probably happening was that he was so caught up happening was that he was so caught up in the moment, he is an incredibly competitive, determined player, we saw the extraordinary things you did last year in fourth innings chase is for england, i got the feeling that he was in a sort of bubble of focus on the game and that made him forget a basic that you are taught as a child which is the over is not over until the umpire has said over. kerry threw down the stumps pretty much instantaneously, i don't think there was i don't think there subterfuge stumps pretty much instantaneously, i don't think there subterfuge in it and i don't think there was a duty for comments to withdraw the appeal. he might have done so, that was up to him but it was essentially a bit of a cricketing errorfrom bairstow. why it is so unsatisfying is that a key moment in the game was decided by something that wasn't really part of the contest between the bowling side and the batting side, or even through fielding, other than the fact that it was a neat little

underarm throw by kerry, and you want the cricket to be decided by cricket, whether that is brilliant play or errors or a combination of both. this was a bit of a technicality but i really don't think australia did anything wrong and the outrage about it, given that... it wasn't like carey had waited until he had left his crease, they had obviously noticed him doing it, he threw it straightaway, he had the ball for less than a second in his gloves, the umpire hadn't called over, so i didn't really see anything wrong with it. but in sport we love to get angry about stuff and perceived injustices and remember those for decades and decades and decades. stand those for decades and decades and decades. �* ~ , ., decades. and we will. alison mitchell, _ decades. and we will. alison mitchell, commentator, - decades. and we will. alison mitchell, commentator, you| decades. and we will. alison - mitchell, commentator, you were commentating at lord's, brilliant alison mitchell. there is this stuff about, my dad was a massive cricket fan, and i kind of got it from him,

it was about fairness and integrity and responsibility in respect for personal honour and character and virtue, is that, forgive me the virtue, is that, forgive me the virtue signalling, but this was not that, alison? surely there has to be a lesson in life, this is all important, and cricket has never been under the spotlight like it is now, alison? been under the spotlight like it is now. alison?— now, alison? yep, this is a high rofile now, alison? yep, this is a high profile dismissal, _ now, alison? yep, this is a high profile dismissal, good - now, alison? yep, this is a high| profile dismissal, good morning, everyone. andy zaltzman was sitting in the commentary box right alongside me for test match special when that incident happened, jonathan agnew described it and then i then immediately pipped up commentary for the start of the next over. and i am a bit of a stickler for the laws i suppose and i did not have an issue with australia appealing in line with the laws of the game, and effecting the dismissal. pat cummins has said that

alex carey may have noted that bairstow was stepping out of his crease if you like early, at the end of each ball, and of an over. i have heard some people say, bairstow tapped his toe behind the crease, thatis tapped his toe behind the crease, that is his signal to say, i am in, that is his signal to say, i am in, thatis that is his signal to say, i am in, that is the end of the over, but it is not the batter who decides, it is the umpire. and as andy zaltzman also rightly pointed out, the ball had gone through to carrie and i observed this immediately at the time, he immediately threw it back into the stumps. there have been some instances in the past where a wicket—keeper has taken the ball and held it over the stumps, waited and waited for the batter to slightly stepped out of their ground and then take the bails off. it was not like that, i would have more of an issue like that because that implies some sense of deception. i do understand that some people think, in this kind of instance, i think they get het up about it because we don't see it very often, similar to a bowler

running out a batter at the non—striker�*s end, which is a dismissal which invokes similar levels of emotion. fir dismissal which invokes similar levels of emotion. or underarm bowlinu. levels of emotion. or underarm bowling- well. _ levels of emotion. or underarm bowling. well, that _ levels of emotion. or underarm bowling. well, that is _ levels of emotion. or underarm bowling. well, that is against i levels of emotion. or underarm i bowling. well, that is against the law, but bowling. well, that is against the law. but this _ bowling. well, that is against the law, but this one _ bowling. well, that is against the law, but this one is _ bowling. well, that is against the law, but this one is within - bowling. well, that is against the law, but this one is within the - bowling. well, that is against the l law, but this one is within the laws of the game, should i8 law, but this one is within the laws of the game, should 18 be given a warning, should a batter be given a warning? say carey had noticed him walking out of his ground, should he have pointed it out to him and say if you do that again then we are going to try to run you out? well if thatis going to try to run you out? well if that is the case then i think it should be written into the laws. because there is nebulous and spirit of the game, it will never be applied consistently. so i think rather than this, lobby the lawmakers and get them to phrase the lawmakers and get them to phrase the law differently. but lawmakers and get them to phrase the law differently-— law differently. but bad sportsmanship - law differently. but bad sportsmanship begets i law differently. but bad i sportsmanship begets bad sportsmanship. i can't wait till we come to our callers. you know, we had, same old aussies, always

cheating. we have those characters in the long room, the long room came to resemble a pub at closing time. let's see a bit of that appalling scene in the long room, i think we can... is the aussie players walking into their dressing room, and the members, some of whom are expressing their views in a very colourful way. and there we have the anger, there we have the passion, there we have the indignation, and we've got an e—mail, just let me read this e—mail if i can, which hasjust reached me. and let's get your texts as well.

all that is going on the world, and what is your selection, cricket, 22 fellas playing bat and ball, appalling! switched off. that is from roger. roger, you will miss our debate about climate change ten o'clock. pete in pageant and nathan in seaton in devon, what do you think? ., in seaton in devon, what do you think? . . , ,, , , ., think? hi,, i am in west sussex near chichester, — think? hi,, i am in west sussex near chichester, i — think? hi,, i am in west sussex near chichester, i was _ think? hi,, i am in west sussex near chichester, i was a _ think? hi,, i am in west sussex near chichester, i was a bit _ think? hi,, i am in west sussex near chichester, i was a bit surprised - chichester, i was a bit surprised that bairstow wasn't given out on the field of play. i was an umpire for a few seasons in the worcestershire and sussex league for a few seasons, and also before that i was a wicket—keeper in club cricket around here. and looking at it, basically, jonny bairstow was a little bit careless because although

he scratched his ground and sort of said in as we used to do as kids, and walked towards stokes, what he didn't do was what a batsman should do isjust to didn't do was what a batsman should do is just to look over his shoulder and see what the wicket—keeper was doing, and carey had the ball, and normally the wicket—keeper just passes the ball to the select or another fielder to send it back, the ball is dead. so, the ball was still live. but what surprised me... i get all that, i am _ live. but what surprised me... i get all that, i am interested _ live. but what surprised me... i get all that, i am interested in - live. but what surprised me... i get allthat, lam interested in your all that, i am interested in your expertise... i all that, i am interested in your exnertise---_ all that, i am interested in your exertise... ., , , expertise... i don't have expertise, but... there is _ expertise... i don't have expertise, but... there is a _ expertise... i don't have expertise, but... there is a lot _ expertise. .. i don't have expertise, but... there is a lot of— expertise... i don't have expertise, but... there is a lot of expertise. i but... there is a lot of expertise. but the burning _ but... there is a lot of expertise. but the burning question, - but... there is a lot of expertise. but the burning question, was i but... there is a lot of expertise. l but the burning question, was this bad sportsmanship or is all fair in love and war and sport and it's about winning? it love and war and sport and it's about winning?— love and war and sport and it's about winnin: ? .,, . . , ., ,., about winning? it was clearly about winnin: , about winning? it was clearly about winning, because _ about winning? it was clearly about winning, because of _ about winning? it was clearly about winning, because of the _ about winning? it was clearly about winning, because of the nature - about winning? it was clearly about winning, because of the nature of. winning, because of the nature of the game. and he took his opportunity to do it, and we can look back on it and say, would he do it again? i don't know. but if you

look back at the new zealand game a few years ago when the player bumped into the english bowler and fell over and collingwood was given the opportunity to reverse his appeal but didn't i don't think pat cummins was offered that chance. but i was surprised that the square leg umpire didn't give it immediately because that would have been easy then, maybe he had turned away thinking it was dead, although the ball wasn't called dead. let was dead, although the ball wasn't called dead-— was dead, although the ball wasn't called dead. _, ., ., ., called dead. let me come to nathan in seaton. and _ called dead. let me come to nathan in seaton. and chris _ called dead. let me come to nathan in seaton. and chris in _ called dead. let me come to nathan in seaton. and chris in brisbane - called dead. let me come to nathan in seaton. and chris in brisbane andj in seaton. and chris in brisbane and is an aussie fan. good morning all of you. nathan, what did you think of you. nathan, what did you think of it and what example does it set? i am so angry. because i was sitting there _ i am so angry. because i was sitting there with _ i am so angry. because i was sitting there with my 12—year—old son, i am a club _ there with my 12—year—old son, i am a club cricketer, plays reasonable

tevet— a club cricketer, plays reasonable level at _ a club cricketer, plays reasonable level at club cricket, i was a wicket—keeper for many, many years, i wicket—keeper for many, many years, i have _ wicket—keeper for many, many years, i have captain — wicket—keeper for many, many years, i have captain decides, i've never seen _ i have captain decides, i've never seen that— i have captain decides, i've never seen that happen. i heard jonathan agnew— seen that happen. i heard jonathan agnew sav— seen that happen. i heard jonathan agnew say that would have happened up agnew say that would have happened up and _ agnew say that would have happened up and down the country, that is one, _ up and down the country, that is one. not— up and down the country, that is one. not in— up and down the country, that is one, not in my opinion. i've never seen _ one, not in my opinion. i've never seen that— one, not in my opinion. i've never seen that happen, it isjust not done — seen that happen, it isjust not done this _ seen that happen, it isjust not done. this is what i am trying to reclaim — done. this is what i am trying to reclaim to— done. this is what i am trying to reclaim to my son. it's notjust the rules, _ reclaim to my son. it's notjust the rules, cricket— reclaim to my son. it's notjust the rules, cricket is also the spirit of cricket _ rules, cricket is also the spirit of cricket and — rules, cricket is also the spirit of cricket and we've heard a lot about that already but that is the way to game _ that already but that is the way to game is _ that already but that is the way to game is played. we don't look for technicalities to get people out, we -et technicalities to get people out, we get people out fair and square. i've never— get people out fair and square. i've never done — get people out fair and square. i've never done that in my life or even think— never done that in my life or even think of— never done that in my life or even think of doing it. he never done that in my life or even think of doing it.— think of doing it. he was out fair and square- _ think of doing it. he was out fair and square. technically - think of doing it. he was out fair and square. technically but - think of doing it. he was out fair| and square. technically but there think of doing it. he was out fair. and square. technically but there is more to the — and square. technically but there is more to the game _ and square. technically but there is more to the game than _ and square. technically but there is more to the game than that, - and square. technically but there is more to the game than that, you i more to the game than that, you don't _ more to the game than that, you don't do — more to the game than that, you don't do that kind of thing, it's 'ust don't do that kind of thing, it's just never— don't do that kind of thing, it's just never done.— don't do that kind of thing, it's 'ust never done. ~ . ., , ., . just never done. what do you mean? how many thousands _ just never done. what do you mean? how many thousands of _ just never done. what do you mean? how many thousands of games i've l how many thousands of games i've played, _ how many thousands of games i've played, i've never seen a wicket—keeper do that because he is not attempting to go for a run. it isjust— not attempting to go for a run. it isjust am — not attempting to go for a run. it isjust a... and also if you look at the speed — isjust a... and also if you look at the speed of— isjust a... and also if you look at the speed of carey throwing it, there _

the speed of carey throwing it, there is— the speed of carey throwing it, there is a — the speed of carey throwing it, there is a lot of talk in the game about— there is a lot of talk in the game about the — there is a lot of talk in the game about the overweight being slow, it is the _ about the overweight being slow, it is the wicket—keeper's duty to get that ball— is the wicket—keeper's duty to get that ball back to the bowler as possible. _ that ball back to the bowler as possible, so he's taking the ball, taking _ possible, so he's taking the ball, taking an — possible, so he's taking the ball, taking an awful lot of bubbles because — taking an awful lot of bubbles because they were bowling short, he's fielding the ball and going back— he's fielding the ball and going back quick to get it back to the bowler— back quick to get it back to the bowler really quickly, and one time he goes. _ bowler really quickly, and one time he goes, no, i've noticed him going a little _ he goes, no, i've noticed him going a little bit _ he goes, no, i've noticed him going a little bit early, it is a skulduggery, that's what it is. skulduggery, that's what it is. skulduggery, that's what it is. skulduggery cash can it is! a skulduggery, that's what it is. skulduggery cash can it is! a you've used the phrase _ skulduggery cash can it is! a you've used the phrase an _ skulduggery cash can it is! a you've used the phrase an awful _ skulduggery cash can it is! a you've used the phrase an awful lot i skulduggery cash can it is! a you've used the phrase an awful lot of- used the phrase an awful lot of balls, — used the phrase an awful lot of balls, and _ used the phrase an awful lot of balls, and some people might be echoing — balls, and some people might be echoing that listening to you. matik. — echoing that listening to you. malik, speak to nathan, he echoing that listening to you. malik, speakto nathan, he is malik, speak to nathan, he is outraged, carry on.— malik, speak to nathan, he is outraged, carry on. bairstow does this all the — outraged, carry on. bairstow does this all the time, _ outraged, carry on. bairstow does this all the time, frequently i outraged, carry on. bairstow does this all the time, frequently does | this all the time, frequently does not tap his back down, he is well known for it, forjust not tap his back down, he is well known for it, for just saunters not tap his back down, he is well known for it, forjust saunters out, he doesn't tap in, he doesn't tap out. hejust thinks i amjonny bairstow i willjust walk down the

pitch whenever i want. and before you start launching into this defence of him, last year against new zealand, they ran someone out, bairstow was behind the stumps, poke the stumps down, and broad was bowling, ifound this the stumps down, and broad was bowling, i found this very difficult to get wound up about. filth. bowling, i found this very difficult to get wound up about.— to get wound up about. ok, i understand — to get wound up about. ok, i understand that, _ to get wound up about. ok, i understand that, that - to get wound up about. ok, i understand that, that is i to get wound up about. ok, i understand that, that is fair i understand that, that is fair enough _ understand that, that is fair enough i_ understand that, that is fair enough. i don't remember that colin de grandhomme incident.— enough. i don't remember that colin de grandhomme incident. coming from nottinghamshire _ de grandhomme incident. coming from nottinghamshire you _ de grandhomme incident. coming from nottinghamshire you are _ de grandhomme incident. coming from nottinghamshire you are probably i de grandhomme incident. coming from nottinghamshire you are probably a i nottinghamshire you are probably a big stuart broad fan? i am nottinghamshire you are probably a big stuart broad fan?— big stuart broad fan? i am from derbi, mh! _ big stuart broad fan? i am from derbi, mh! you're _ big stuart broad fan? i am from derbi, mh! you're probably- big stuart broad fan? i am from derbi, mh! you're probably not| big stuart broad fan? i am from | derbi, mh! you're probably not a big stuart broad fan? i am from i derbi, mh! you're probably not a big stuart broad — derbi, mh! you're probably not a big stuart broad fan! _ derbi, mh! you're probably not a big stuart broad fan! stuart _ derbi, mh! you're probably not a big stuart broad fan! stuart broad i stuart broad fan! stuart broad yesterday... stuart broad fan! stuart broad yesterdav- - -— stuart broad fan! stuart broad yesterday. . . stuart broad fan! stuart broad esterda ., ., , stuart broad fan! stuart broad esterda... ., ., , . yesterday... two wrongs don't make a riaht, do yesterday... two wrongs don't make a right. do they? _ yesterday... two wrongs don't make a right. do they? you — yesterday... two wrongs don't make a right, do they? you know, _ yesterday... two wrongs don't make a right, do they? you know, what i'm i right, do they? you know, what i'm saying _ right, do they? you know, what i'm saying is, _ right, do they? you know, what i'm saying is, we — right, do they? you know, what i'm saying is, we have these standards in cricket, — saying is, we have these standards in cricket, golf is similar in a way, — in cricket, golf is similar in a way. very— in cricket, golf is similar in a way, very heavily regulated. but we

have this _ way, very heavily regulated. but we have this corinthian spirit, this is wherem — have this corinthian spirit, this is where... .. . have this corinthian spirit, this is where... ., . , , �* where... corinthian spirit! i'm lookin: where... corinthian spirit! i'm looking at— where... corinthian spirit! i'm looking at the _ where... corinthian spirit! i'm looking at the texts, - where... corinthian spirit! i'm looking at the texts, malik, . where... corinthian spirit! i'm i looking at the texts, malik, what do you think? people think it is absolutely fine, but some, my goodness me they will be getting vertigo from the moral high ground here, malik. the vertigo from the moral high ground here, malik.— vertigo from the moral high ground here, malik. the moral high ground as well from — here, malik. the moral high ground as well from brendon _ here, malik. the moral high ground as well from brendon mccullum, i here, malik. the moral high ground. as well from brendon mccullum, this is a man who in 2006, when miller left the room was playing with sangakkara, sangakkara hit a second innings hundred, motherly walked out of his ground to congratulate him and mccullum took the bails off. so he has done it himself, and then ten years later he turns up at lord's for the mcc spirit of cricket lecture and says ten years later, i feel shameful for what i did. lecture and says ten years later, i feel shamefulfor what i did. bit late then, isn't it? this is a guy who coaches the team, and he is just as bad. who coaches the team, and he is 'ust as bad. , . ., ..

who coaches the team, and he is 'ust as bad. , . ., ., . .. as bad. there is a lot of micro here but there is — as bad. there is a lot of micro here but there is a _ as bad. there is a lot of micro here but there is a macro _ as bad. there is a lot of micro here but there is a macro issue, - as bad. there is a lot of micro here but there is a macro issue, which l but there is a macro issue, which is... there is morality, ethics and the spirit of the game, because of all of the games, surely this is the game that adheres to those traditions, and the best aspects of the human condition. then in nottingham, david and manchester, you go first, david, was this fair? hi, are you 0k? you go first, david, was this fair? hi, are you ok? i you go first, david, was this fair? hi, are you 0k? ijust want to say that ben stokes is a bit contradictory with what, 2019, when they played new zealand in the final of the work, when the ball hit the back of his back and he stopped it from hitting the stumps and it went four, and then he ended up winning the tournament. that was unfair play as well. people are forgetting about things like that.— as well. people are forgetting about things like that._ and i things like that. selective. and the are things like that. selective. and they are doing _ things like that. selective. and they are doing it _ things like that. selective. and they are doing it there - things like that. selective. and they are doing it there is i things like that. selective. and they are doing it there is no . things like that. selective. and l they are doing it there is no such thing as that spirit in the game, the last caller is right, he's

wandering around the stumps and then he didn't run someone out like that, bairstow. also these people in the pavilion who were having a go at these top australian players, these pompous people have never probably even played the game, but others have played it day in, day out. that is really interesting. _ have played it day in, day out. that is really interesting. chris in brisbane, what do you think about what you're hearing? it’s brisbane, what do you think about what you're hearing?— what you're hearing? it's really interesting- — what you're hearing? it's really interesting. i'm _ what you're hearing? it's really interesting. i'm actually - what you're hearing? it's really interesting. i'm actually livingl what you're hearing? it's really| interesting. i'm actually living in the uk, brisbane is my hometown so i am just back here for a visit. i stayed up late into the night watching it, i have to say my first reaction was, that is not really fair. but actuallyjust like the catch which wasn't a catch, i thought it was a cat, in both cases when you look at the rules, the rules say that the catch wasn't a catch and that the stomping was a stumping. so it is what it is but i have to say first time i didn't think it looks fair but it really is what has happened many times before.

even as was said by bairstow himself. i can understand people getting wound up. that is the fun of sport, to get wound up a bit but not too much. so, treat it as entertainment but not like war. it is just entertainment but not like war. it isjust fun. entertainment but not like war. it isiust fun-— entertainment but not like war. it is 'ust fun. , �* ., ., , is 'ust fun. james in bradford, glen in isjust fun. james in bradford, glen in nottingham. _ isjust fun. james in bradford, glen in nottingham, you _ isjust fun. james in bradford, glen in nottingham, you go, _ isjust fun. james in bradford, glen in nottingham, you go, just - isjust fun. james in bradford, glen in nottingham, you go, just a - isjust fun. james in bradford, glen in nottingham, you go, just a bit . in nottingham, you go, just a bit fun...? {lit in nottingham, you go, 'ust a bit fun...? u, , in nottingham, you go, 'ust a bit fun...? _, , , in nottingham, you go, 'ust a bit fun...? , , ., ., fun...? of course it is! come down, glenn country _ fun...? of course it is! come down, glenn country come _ fun...? of course it is! come down, glenn country come down _ fun...? of course it is! come down, glenn country come down country i | glenn country come down country i live in— glenn country come down country i live in trent — glenn country come down country i live in trent bridge, i see plenty of cricket — live in trent bridge, i see plenty of cricket. let's put it this way, they— of cricket. let's put it this way, they have — of cricket. let's put it this way, they have got form, haven't they? when _ they have got form, haven't they? when somebody hasjust they have got form, haven't they? when somebody has just said that bairstow_ when somebody has just said that bairstow does this all the time... the opening batsman for australia, kaleidzic, _ the opening batsman for australia, kalajdzic, backs up so far down the wicket, _ kalajdzic, backs up so far down the wicket, i'm — kalajdzic, backs up so far down the

wicket, i'mjust hoping kalajdzic, backs up so far down the wicket, i'm just hoping that the first hatt— wicket, i'm just hoping that the first ball that england bowl, they 'ust first ball that england bowl, they just take — first ball that england bowl, they just take the bails off, don't warn him, _ just take the bails off, don't warn him, because this is the law of the game _ him, because this is the law of the game and — him, because this is the law of the game. and if it is the law is that youhe _ game. and if it is the law is that you're sticking to, then that's fine — you're sticking to, then that's fine. ungentlemanly conduct, terrible. — fine. ungentlemanly conduct, terrible, disgraceful, but it is in the law — terrible, disgraceful, but it is in the law. talking about the same australians who bowled underarm to the new _ australians who bowled underarm to the new zealanders. yes, australians who bowled underarm to the new zealanders.— australians who bowled underarm to the new zealanders. yes, a few years aro. the new zealanders. yes, a few years auo. as i the new zealanders. yes, a few years age as i say. — the new zealanders. yes, a few years ago. as i say, they've _ the new zealanders. yes, a few years ago. as i say, they've got form my i ago. as i say, they've got form my rochemback. _ ago. as i say, they've got form my rochemback, chris? _ ago. as i say, they've got form my rochemback, chris? i— ago. as i say, they've got form my rochemback, chris? i mean, - ago. as i say, they've got form my rochemback, chris? i mean, so, l ago. as i say, they've got form my i rochemback, chris? i mean, so, you could say that _ rochemback, chris? i mean, so, you could say that is _ rochemback, chris? i mean, so, you could say that is why _ rochemback, chris? i mean, so, you could say that is why carey _ rochemback, chris? i mean, so, you could say that is why carey managed | could say that is why carey managed to get the stumps, he threw it underarm as well, but seriously, that underarm incident, when greg chapel asked his brother to bowl underarm, that, pretty much all australians i know felt that that was absolutely not fair, and i think was, australians were very uncomfortable with the. it happened

auainst new uncomfortable with the. it happened against new zealand _ uncomfortable with the. it happened against new zealand is _ uncomfortable with the. it happened against new zealand is that - uncomfortable with the. it happened against new zealand is that why? it | against new zealand is that why? doesn't against new zealand is that why? ut doesn't matter who it was against, that was something that was in the law, and so... it was something that no—one had done before. whereas you have all given examples of cases where the various people on the english side, whether on the coaching staff or bairstow himself, has done something similar, and so i take back what i said, of course he does not do it all the time but he has done it before, bairstow, i am told, and so that is what has happened this time. sol told, and so that is what has happened this time. so i think to be fair it is notjust australians doing that, it is other side doing that as well, very some of the things. that as well, very some of the thins. , . , �* ., ., that as well, very some of the thins. , m, ., ~ things. james in bradford, swat niuht things. james in bradford, swat ni . ht in things. james in bradford, swat night in henley, _ things. james in bradford, swat night in henley, on _ things. james in bradford, swat night in henley, on you - things. james in bradford, swat night in henley, on you go, - things. james in bradford, swat night in henley, on you go, how| things. james in bradford, swat. night in henley, on you go, how do you feel about this, did they play fair? br; you feel about this, did they play fair? �* , . , , you feel about this, did they play fair? �* , ., , , , you feel about this, did they play fair? ., i, . fair? by law, yes, it is correct, i completely _ fair? by law, yes, it is correct, i completely understand - fair? by law, yes, it is correct, i completely understand that, - fair? by law, yes, it is correct, i completely understand that, a l fair? by law, yes, it is correct, i. completely understand that, a bit fair? by law, yes, it is correct, i- completely understand that, a bit of background. — completely understand that, a bit of background. i— completely understand that, a bit of background, i am _ completely understand that, a bit of background, i am a _ completely understand that, a bit of background, i am a teacher- completely understand that, a bit of background, i am a teacher by- background, i am a teacher by profession— background, i am a teacher by profession and _ background, i am a teacher by profession and i— background, i am a teacher by profession and i am _ background, i am a teacher by profession and i am also - background, i am a teacher by profession and i am also a - background, i am a teacher by. profession and i am also a cricket umpire _ profession and i am also a cricket umpire and — profession and i am also a cricket

umpire and i_ profession and i am also a cricket umpire and i stand _ profession and i am also a cricket umpire and i stand with - profession and i am also a cricket umpire and i stand with focal- profession and i am also a cricket umpire and i stand with focal andj umpire and i stand with focal and women's — umpire and i stand with focal and women's team _ umpire and i stand with focal and women's team is _ umpire and i stand with focal and women's team is who _ umpire and i stand with focal and women's team is who i _ umpire and i stand with focal and women's team is who i stood - umpire and i stand with focal and| women's team is who i stood with yesterday— women's team is who i stood with yesterday versus _ women's team is who i stood with yesterday versus oxford - women's team is who i stood with yesterday versus oxford women l women's team is who i stood with . yesterday versus oxford women and something _ yesterday versus oxford women and something similar— yesterday versus oxford women and something similar happened - yesterday versus oxford women and something similar happened and - yesterday versus oxford women and something similar happened and a l something similar happened and a -irl, something similar happened and a girl, the _ something similar happened and a girl, the wicket—keeper, _ something similar happened and a girl, the wicket—keeper, poppy, . something similar happened and a i girl, the wicket—keeper, poppy, she had the _ girl, the wicket—keeper, poppy, she had the hall— girl, the wicket—keeper, poppy, she had the hall in— girl, the wicket—keeper, poppy, she had the ball in her— girl, the wicket—keeper, poppy, she had the ball in her hand, _ girl, the wicket—keeper, poppy, she had the ball in her hand, she - girl, the wicket—keeper, poppy, she had the ball in her hand, she was. had the ball in her hand, she was stood _ had the ball in her hand, she was stood over— had the ball in her hand, she was stood over the _ had the ball in her hand, she was stood over the wicket, _ had the ball in her hand, she was stood over the wicket, over- had the ball in her hand, she was stood over the wicket, over the l stood over the wicket, over the stumps. — stood over the wicket, over the stumps. and _ stood over the wicket, over the stumps, and the _ stood over the wicket, over the stumps, and the player- stood over the wicket, over the stumps, and the player from i stood over the wicket, over the. stumps, and the player from the opposite — stumps, and the player from the opposite team, _ stumps, and the player from the opposite team, she _ stumps, and the player from the opposite team, she turned - stumps, and the player from the . opposite team, she turned around, stumps, and the player from the - opposite team, she turned around, i was standing — opposite team, she turned around, i was standing at _ opposite team, she turned around, i was standing at the _ opposite team, she turned around, i was standing at the bowler's - opposite team, she turned around, i was standing at the bowler's end, i was standing at the bowler's end, the ttatter— was standing at the bowler's end, the batter said, _ was standing at the bowler's end, the batter said, we _ was standing at the bowler's end, the batter said, we are _ was standing at the bowler's end, the batter said, we are not - was standing at the bowler's end, . the batter said, we are not running, so the _ the batter said, we are not running, so the other— the batter said, we are not running, so the other batter, _ the batter said, we are not running, so the other batter, who _ the batter said, we are not running, so the other batter, who was - the batter said, we are not running, so the other batter, who was in - the batter said, we are not running, so the other batter, who was in the | so the other batter, who was in the middle _ so the other batter, who was in the middle of— so the other batter, who was in the middle of the — so the other batter, who was in the middle of the pitch _ so the other batter, who was in the middle of the pitch when _ so the other batter, who was in the middle of the pitch when she - so the other batter, who was in the middle of the pitch when she had . so the other batter, who was in the i middle of the pitch when she had run and she _ middle of the pitch when she had run and she was— middle of the pitch when she had run and she was in— middle of the pitch when she had run and she was in the _ middle of the pitch when she had run and she was in the middle _ middle of the pitch when she had run and she was in the middle of- middle of the pitch when she had run and she was in the middle of the - and she was in the middle of the wicket, — and she was in the middle of the wicket, she _ and she was in the middle of the wicket, she turned _ and she was in the middle of the wicket, she turned around, - and she was in the middle of the . wicket, she turned around, slipped, fell, wicket, she turned around, slipped, felt, there _ wicket, she turned around, slipped, felt, there was— wicket, she turned around, slipped, fell, there was no— wicket, she turned around, slipped, fell, there was no way— wicket, she turned around, slipped, fell, there was no way she - wicket, she turned around, slipped, fell, there was no way she was - wicket, she turned around, slipped, i fell, there was no way she was going to get— fell, there was no way she was going to get and _ fell, there was no way she was going to get and go— fell, there was no way she was going to get and go and _ fell, there was no way she was going to get and go and reach _ fell, there was no way she was going to get and go and reach the - fell, there was no way she was going to get and go and reach the stumps. | to get and go and reach the stumps. this wicket—keeper— to get and go and reach the stumps. this wicket—keeper was— to get and go and reach the stumps. this wicket—keeper was standing - this wicket—keeper was standing on top of— this wicket—keeper was standing on top of the _ this wicket—keeper was standing on top of the stumps _ this wicket—keeper was standing on top of the stumps with _ this wicket—keeper was standing on top of the stumps with the - this wicket—keeper was standing on top of the stumps with the ball - this wicket—keeper was standing on top of the stumps with the ball in l top of the stumps with the ball in her handm — top of the stumps with the ball in her handm ls— top of the stumps with the ball in her hand- - -_ top of the stumps with the ball in her hand. . ._ yes, | her hand... is that poppy? yes, .0 . . _ her hand... is that poppy? yes, poppy- and _ her hand... is that poppy? yes, poppy- and everybody - her hand... is that poppy? yes, poppy. and everybody on - her hand... is that poppy? yes, poppy. and everybody on the i her hand... is that poppy? yes, . poppy. and everybody on the field, including _ poppy. and everybody on the field, including myself, _ poppy. and everybody on the field, including myself, for— poppy. and everybody on the field, including myself, for a _ poppy. and everybody on the field, including myself, for a minute - poppy. and everybody on the field, including myself, for a minute i- including myself, for a minute i forgot — including myself, for a minute i forgot that— including myself, fora minute i forgot that i_ including myself, for a minute i forgot that i was _ including myself, for a minute i forgot that i was an _ including myself, for a minute i forgot that i was an umpire, . including myself, for a minute i forgot that i was an umpire, i i forgot that i was an umpire, i became — forgot that i was an umpire, i became a _ forgot that i was an umpire, i became a spectator, - forgot that i was an umpire, i became a spectator, and - forgot that i was an umpire, i | became a spectator, and even forgot that i was an umpire, i i became a spectator, and even i almost — became a spectator, and even i almost gestured, _ became a spectator, and even i almost gestured, go _ became a spectator, and even i almost gestured, go on, - became a spectator, and even i almost gestured, go on, then, i became a spectator, and even i- almost gestured, go on, then, take the hit. _ almost gestured, go on, then, take the hit. and — almost gestured, go on, then, take the hit. and she _ almost gestured, go on, then, take the hit, and she didn't. _ almost gestured, go on, then, take the hit, and she didn't. and - almost gestured, go on, then, take the hit, and she didn't. and let- almost gestured, go on, then, take the hit, and she didn't. and let mel the hit, and she didn't. and let me tell you. _ the hit, and she didn't. and let me tell you. i— the hit, and she didn't. and let me tell you, i would _

the hit, and she didn't. and let me tell you, i would have _ the hit, and she didn't. and let me tell you, i would have taken - the hit, and she didn't. and let me tell you, i would have taken the i tell you, i would have taken the hit, tell you, i would have taken the hit. 0k? — tell you, i would have taken the hit, ok? stood— tell you, i would have taken the hit, ok? stood there _ tell you, i would have taken the hit, ok? stood there with- tell you, i would have taken the hit, ok? stood there with the l tell you, i would have taken the . hit, ok? stood there with the ball in her_ hit, ok? stood there with the ball in her hand — hit, ok? stood there with the ball in her hand saying _ hit, ok? stood there with the ball in her hand saying to— hit, ok? stood there with the ball in her hand saying to a _ hit, ok? stood there with the ball| in her hand saying to a teammate, i'm not— in her hand saying to a teammate, i'm not taking— in her hand saying to a teammate, i'm not taking it. _ in her hand saying to a teammate, i'm not taking it, she _ in her hand saying to a teammate, i'm not taking it, she has- in her hand saying to a teammate, i'm not taking it, she has fallen. i'm not taking it, she has fallen down~ — i'm not taking it, she has fallen down she _ i'm not taking it, she has fallen down she is _ i'm not taking it, she has fallen down. she is on _ i'm not taking it, she has fallen down. she is on the _ i'm not taking it, she has fallen down. she is on the ground, i i'm not taking it, she has fallen. down. she is on the ground, that i'm not taking it, she has fallen- down. she is on the ground, that is not fair~ _ down. she is on the ground, that is not fair~ and — down. she is on the ground, that is not fair. and she _ down. she is on the ground, that is not fair. and she stood _ down. she is on the ground, that is not fair. and she stood there, - down. she is on the ground, that is not fair. and she stood there, thisl not fair. and she stood there, this is a 16-year-old _ not fair. and she stood there, this is a 16—year—old kid. _ not fair. and she stood there, this is a 16—year—old kid. and - not fair. and she stood there, this is a 16—year—old kid. and she - not fair. and she stood there, this is a 16—year—old kid. and she hadi not fair. and she stood there, this. is a 16—year—old kid. and she had to make _ is a 16—year—old kid. and she had to make that _ is a 16—year—old kid. and she had to make that split—second _ is a 16—year—old kid. and she had to make that split—second decision - is a 16—year—old kid. and she had to| make that split—second decision and she rose _ make that split—second decision and she rose above _ make that split—second decision and she rose above the _ make that split—second decision and she rose above the rest _ make that split—second decision and she rose above the rest of _ make that split—second decision and she rose above the rest of us, - she rose above the rest of us, respected _ she rose above the rest of us, respected everybody - she rose above the rest of us, respected everybody on - she rose above the rest of us, respected everybody on the l she rose above the rest of us, i respected everybody on the team she rose above the rest of us, - respected everybody on the team and the umpires. — respected everybody on the team and the umpires. she _ respected everybody on the team and the umpires, she rose _ respected everybody on the team and the umpires, she rose above, - respected everybody on the team and the umpires, she rose above, you - the umpires, she rose above, you seer _ the umpires, she rose above, you see. that — the umpires, she rose above, you see. that is — the umpires, she rose above, you see, that is the _ the umpires, she rose above, you see, that is the spirit _ the umpires, she rose above, you see, that is the spirit of— the umpires, she rose above, you see, that is the spirit of the - the umpires, she rose above, you| see, that is the spirit of the game. and as _ see, that is the spirit of the game. and as a _ see, that is the spirit of the game. and as a teacher— see, that is the spirit of the game. and as a teacher at _ see, that is the spirit of the game. and as a teacher at the _ see, that is the spirit of the game. and as a teacher at the henley- and as a teacher at the henley college. — and as a teacher at the henley college. i_ and as a teacher at the henley college. i am _ and as a teacher at the henley college, i am in _ and as a teacher at the henley college, i am in the _ and as a teacher at the henley college, i am in the college i and as a teacher at the henley. college, i am in the college right now. _ college, i am in the college right now. we — college, i am in the college right now. we our— college, i am in the college right now, we our students— college, i am in the college right now, we our students to - college, i am in the college right now, we our students to be - college, i am in the college right now, we our students to be fair, | college, i am in the college right. now, we our students to be fair, to be gentle. — now, we our students to be fair, to be gentle. to— now, we our students to be fair, to be gentle. to he _ now, we our students to be fair, to be gentle, to be respect for, - now, we our students to be fair, to be gentle, to be respect for, to - be gentle, to be respect for, to be nice _ be gentle, to be respect for, to be nice and — be gentle, to be respect for, to be nice. and these _ be gentle, to be respect for, to be nice. and these grown— be gentle, to be respect for, to be nice. and these grown men, - be gentle, to be respect for, to be nice. and these grown men, and i be gentle, to be respect for, to be| nice. and these grown men, and as your cricket — nice. and these grown men, and as your cricket commentator— nice. and these grown men, and as your cricket commentator said - your cricket commentator said earlier— your cricket commentator said earlier in— your cricket commentator said earlier in the _ your cricket commentator said earlier in the previous - your cricket commentator said - earlier in the previous programme, he said. _ earlier in the previous programme, he said. it — earlier in the previous programme, he said, it wasn't _ earlier in the previous programme, he said, it wasn't that _ earlier in the previous programme, he said, it wasn't that he _ earlier in the previous programme, he said, it wasn't that he took- earlier in the previous programme, he said, it wasn't that he took the. he said, it wasn't that he took the opportunity. — he said, it wasn't that he took the opportunity. of— he said, it wasn't that he took the opportunity, of course _ he said, it wasn't that he took the opportunity, of course the - opportunity, of course the opportunity— opportunity, of course the opportunity is _ opportunity, of course the opportunity is there - opportunity, of course the opportunity is there to - opportunity, of course the opportunity is there to be | opportunity, of course the - opportunity is there to be taken some _ opportunity is there to be taken some might _ opportunity is there to be taken some might say— opportunity is there to be taken some might say well— opportunity is there to be taken some might say well heated - opportunity is there to be taken - some might say well heated actually turn around — some might say well heated actually turn around and _ some might say well heated actually turn around and put _ some might say well heated actually turn around and put his— some might say well heated actually turn around and put his back- some might say well heated actually turn around and put his back in - some might say well heated actually turn around and put his back in the i turn around and put his back in the crease _ turn around and put his back in the crease and — turn around and put his back in the crease and their— turn around and put his back in the crease and their four— turn around and put his back in the crease and their four he _ turn around and put his back in the crease and their four he was - turn around and put his back in the crease and their four he was in. .

crease and their four he was in. but it is what— crease and their four he was in. but it is what happened _ crease and their four he was in. but it is what happened afterwards - crease and their four he was in. but it is what happened afterwards in. it is what happened afterwards in the circle. — it is what happened afterwards in the circle. at _ it is what happened afterwards in the circle, at least _ it is what happened afterwards in the circle, at least one _ it is what happened afterwards in the circle, at least one of- it is what happened afterwards in the circle, at least one of them i the circle, at least one of them should — the circle, at least one of them should have _ the circle, at least one of them should have said, _ the circle, at least one of them should have said, come - the circle, at least one of them should have said, come on, - the circle, at least one of them i should have said, come on, guys, lets— should have said, come on, guys, let's play— should have said, come on, guys, let's play this _ should have said, come on, guys, let's play this fair, _ should have said, come on, guys, let's play this fair, that _ should have said, come on, guys, let's play this fair, that is - should have said, come on, guys, let's play this fair, that is the - let's play this fair, that is the spirit — let's play this fair, that is the spirit of— let's play this fair, that is the spirit of the _ let's play this fair, that is the spirit of the game, _ let's play this fair, that is the spirit of the game, and - let's play this fair, that is the spirit of the game, and it- let's play this fair, that is the spirit of the game, and it is. let's play this fair, that is the i spirit of the game, and it is the biggest — spirit of the game, and it is the biggest showcase _ spirit of the game, and it is the biggest showcase for— spirit of the game, and it is the biggest showcase for british . spirit of the game, and it is thel biggest showcase for british and spirit of the game, and it is the - biggest showcase for british and for all the _ biggest showcase for british and for all the kids — biggest showcase for british and for all the kids. for— biggest showcase for british and for all the kids. ., ~ . biggest showcase for british and for all the kids. ., ~ , , all the kids. for the kids, exactly. i love this. _ all the kids. for the kids, exactly. i love this, this _ all the kids. for the kids, exactly. i love this, this is _ all the kids. for the kids, exactly. i love this, this is a _ all the kids. for the kids, exactly. i love this, this is a great - all the kids. for the kids, exactly. i love this, this is a great call, - i love this, this is a great call, and all hail poppy. so, she is from falklands women's team and i have stood with them, and what i have noticed, they were at the bottom of the league and now they are at the top of their league, top of the home counties premier league cricket, and these girls are fantastic on the field, william dollars. but above eve hinu field, william dollars. but above everything else. _ field, william dollars. but above everything else, they _ field, william dollars. but above everything else, they are - field, william dollars. but above everything else, they are good i everything else, they are good sportspeopie _ everything else, they are good sportspeopie -- _ everything else, they are good sportspeopie. —— brilliant- everything else, they are good - sportspeopie. —— brilliant bowlers. let sportspeople. —— brilliant bowlers. let me— sportspeople. —— brilliant bowlers. let me play— sportspeopie. —— brilliant bowlers. let me play that _ sportspeopie. —— brilliant bowlers. let me play that one _ sportspeopie. —— brilliant bowlers. let me play that one again, - sportspeopie. —— brilliant bowlers. let me play that one again, andy. let me play that one again, andy zatlzman, all hail poppy. yes.

let me play that one again, andy zatlzman, all hail poppy. yes, but i do think it's — zatlzman, all hail poppy. yes, but i do think it's rather... _ zatlzman, all hail poppy. yes, but i do think it's rather... it _ zatlzman, all hail poppy. yes, but i do think it's rather... it is - zatlzman, all hail poppy. yes, but i do think it's rather... it is rather. do think it's rather... it is rather different in high level sport. tie. different in high level sport. no, it's not me _ different in high level sport. no, it's not me that _ different in high level sport. no, it's not me that i _ different in high level sport. no, it's not me that i would argue that it's not me that i would argue that it is because i don't think australia did anything wrong, i don't think they were seeking to gain an unfair advantage. your carlow said he has never seen it in club cricket, i think i have seen some of the when i saw village cricket but the reason it doesn't happen in club cricket is because batter is don't leave that off until they hear the umpire say over. if you look at the laws of cricket, unfair play, the laws include intimidator rebuilding, attempts to intimidate batters through short—pitched bowling. we saw loads of that from both teams, even allowing for the skill of the players. you're missing the point. why are you missing the point? you're missing the point because it's about the example being set to young people. that is the point, isn't it? ., _, young people. that is the point, isn't it? ., . ,, ., young people. that is the point, isn't it? ., ., ., isn't it? can i come back on that? you no isn't it? can i come back on that? you go on. _ isn't it? can i come back on that?

you go on, please. _ iam i am passionate about cricket, i grew up in india, shouting at the television and all the rest. but as a teacher and mother, what i saw in that, and i'm telling you, i would have taken the hit. i would have stood there taking the hit. however, in that split second, she rose above the rest of us, and the captain and everyone else was like, yeah, that's good, let's move on.— everyone else was like, yeah, that's good, let's move on. andy zaltzman, i don't good, let's move on. andy zaltzman, i don't mean — good, let's move on. andy zaltzman, i don't mean any _ good, let's move on. andy zaltzman, i don't mean any disrespect - good, let's move on. andy zaltzman, i don't mean any disrespect by - i don't mean any disrespect by saying you are missing the point because your knowledge of cricket is infinite and miners on a pinprick. but the point is, if you were a young person watching poppy or a young person watching poppy or a young person watching the australians, which will have the best effect? it australians, which will have the best effect?— australians, which will have the best effect? , , ., ., best effect? it depends what you are watchinu. if best effect? it depends what you are watching- if you _ best effect? it depends what you are watching. if you watch _ best effect? it depends what you are watching. if you watch the _ best effect? it depends what you are watching. if you watch the whole - watching. if you watch the whole

game. _ watching. if you watch the whole game, and we have seen two games played _ game, and we have seen two games played at _ game, and we have seen two games played at high intensity with high skill and — played at high intensity with high skill and highly competitive, but fair. skill and highly competitive, but fair~ there — skill and highly competitive, but fair. there is this one incident which — fair. there is this one incident which you _ fair. there is this one incident which you can read in different ways morally _ which you can read in different ways morally. like i said, you could say that if— morally. like i said, you could say that if children are watching, the lesson— that if children are watching, the lesson is. — that if children are watching, the lesson is, rememberthe that if children are watching, the lesson is, remember the laws of the game _ lesson is, remember the laws of the game jonny— lesson is, remember the laws of the game. jonny bairstow didn't think of that at— game. jonny bairstow didn't think of that at the _ game. jonny bairstow didn't think of that at the time. i think he was in a competitive bubble marching out of the crease. _ a competitive bubble marching out of the crease, trying to own the space and you _ the crease, trying to own the space and you could argue that it is a cricketing _ and you could argue that it is a cricketing incident. ithink and you could argue that it is a cricketing incident. i think if you look— cricketing incident. i think if you look at — cricketing incident. i think if you look at this— cricketing incident. i think if you look at this one incident, it is not ideal— look at this one incident, it is not ideal but— look at this one incident, it is not ideal but i— look at this one incident, it is not ideal but i don't think there is any sense _ ideal but i don't think there is any sense there was subterfuge or a lack of fairness — sense there was subterfuge or a lack of fairness. it's a batting error and _ of fairness. it's a batting error and the — of fairness. it's a batting error and the fielding side took advantage. in terms of unfair play, there _ advantage. in terms of unfair play, there is— advantage. in terms of unfair play, there is a _ advantage. in terms of unfair play, there is a intimidator rebuilding, time _ there is a intimidator rebuilding, time wasting is part of on fair play and we _ time wasting is part of on fair play and we see — time wasting is part of on fair play and we see endemic dawdling in cricket _ and we see endemic dawdling in cricket from fielding sides to slow the game —

cricket from fielding sides to slow the game down. we focusing on this one incident, a split second moment. decency— one incident, a split second moment. decency for— one incident, a split second moment. decency for others and setting an example. t decency for others and setting an examle. , , ., example. i completely agree with and and example. i completely agree with andy and everything _ example. i completely agree with andy and everything he _ example. i completely agree with andy and everything he says. - andy and everything he says. everything?— andy and everything he says. eve hina? ~ , ., everything? absolutely. however, the oint i am everything? absolutely. however, the point i am making _ everything? absolutely. however, the point i am making is _ everything? absolutely. however, the point i am making is slightly - everything? absolutely. however, the point i am making is slightly more - point i am making is slightly more astute and different. absolutely 100% agree that bairstow should have waited for the umpire to call over. everything else, time wasting in cricket and bowling aggressively, it's rubbish and 100% correct. but it's rubbish and 100% correct. but it doesn't make what some of us are saying incorrect. the spirit of the game is also a part of the game. we saw it yesterday, after the over i went up to the wicketkeeper and shook her hand. the other umpire went and shook her hand. apparently many people on the boundary were saying she did good and others were saying, why didn't she take the hit?

andy is 100% correct, everything he saysis andy is 100% correct, everything he says is 100% correct.— says is 100% correct. moving on to some text messages, _ says is 100% correct. moving on to some text messages, it _ says is 100% correct. moving on to some text messages, it has - says is 100% correct. moving on to some text messages, it has boiled down to are you with poppy or carey. andy zaltzman, a privilege to have you on the programme. a couple of text messages. i was a wicketkeeper and did the same as alex carey in a game when i was iii. at the time it didn't feel right and i have regretted it ever since. i didn't have the chance to retract my actions. this one, in cricket, rules are rules, out is out. a lapse in concentration by bairstow, schoolboy error, should have tapped the crease with the bat first. another one, utterly disgusting with what the aussies did yesterday. akin to the underarm bowling scandal of 81. terrible form. same old aussie's, always cheating. that's from james

in north wales. 08085 909 693. more to come and we will be discussing climate change at ten o'clock. right now it's 9.33. a very good monday morning. here is deena campbell with the news. a group of conservative backbenchers is warning the government that it needs to take urgent action to cut immigration, or it risks losing public trust. the group — called the new conservatives — wants to bring annual net migration down from around 600,000 tojust over 200,000. a firefighter has died in paris while trying to douse vehicles that had been set on fire during riots, after a teenager was killed by a police officer. around 150 people were arrested across france last night compared with more than 700 the night before.

israel says it's killed at least seven militants in a large—scale military operation in the occupied west bank. army vehicles entered the city ofjenin, after air strikes on the refugee camp there overnight. israeli officials say they are targeting militant infrastructure. the islamist group, hamas, has called the attacks "barbaric aggression". the leader of the train drivers�* union aslef says he won't rule out further strikes. members of the union are refusing to work overtime until sunday, in a long—running dispute over pay and conditions. services on 15 train companies, based in england, are expected to be disrupted over the next six days. now, john bennett has the sport. australia have confirmed that their off—spinner nathan lyon will miss the rest of the ashes series against england with a calf injury. he suffered the problem on day 2 of the second test. australia lead the series 2—0 with three matches to play. as you've been hearing with nicky that controversial jonny bairstow dismissal

is still the major talking point. england coach brendon mccullum says they would've made a different decision on the stumping. wimbledon gets underway today without one of the big characters in tennis. last year's finalist nick kyrgios has withdrawn from wimbledon with a wrist injury. novak djokovic, iga swiatek and venus williams are in action later. coverage on 5 live gets underway at 12:30. manor solomon is set to become tottenham's latest signing. the israel international winger was on loan at fulham last season. and england under 21s coach lee carsley says they can take great confidence from their win over portugal at the european european championships. they're into the semifinals for the first time since 2017.

good morning. more on the cricket controversy, the controversy that transcends cricket, to come between now and ten o'clock. around 9.1i5 if you are watching on bbc two, wimbledon will be kicking off. at ten o'clock, bear this in mind, june, the last refuge of the lyricist without a rhyme for moon. june, the hottest on record. are you worried, depressed, is it a call to arms, another one? how many do we need? it meant unprecedented deaths of fish in rivers and disturbed insects and plants,

environment groups have warned. ecosystems a re ecosystems are being destroyed. the wildlife trust said: "nature is being pounded by extreme weather without a chance to recover". people also used more water with demand increasing by 25% at peak times in some areas, said water uk. the met office will say later today if the high temperatures were linked to climate change. but if so, is this a wake—up moment? we all know the planet is getting hotter, we know too that the uk has pledged to reduce its greenhouse gas emissions to net zero by 2050. we know the government are being heavily criticised from their own about watering down some of their pledges and using too much water. but are we doing enough and quickly enough? your thoughts please.

what about it? kevin in stalybridge, lorain in rochester, simon in pontefract and celia in walthamstow. yeah, celia, hello. was this play fair? , , , yeah, celia, hello. was this play fair? _ , yeah, celia, hello. was this play fair? , , fair? possibly, but it 'ust... it left me feeling _ fair? possibly, but itjust... it left me feeling deflated - fair? possibly, but itjust... it left me feeling deflated and l fair? possibly, but itjust... it. left me feeling deflated and sad. it's not all about winning. not everything is about winning. isn’t everything is about winning. isn't it? no. i passionately— everything is about winning. isn't it? no. i passionately love- everything is about winning. isn't| it? no. i passionately love cricket and would — it? no. i passionately love cricket and would desperately _ it? no. i passionately love cricket and would desperately love - it? no. i passionately love cricket and would desperately love to - it? no. i passionately love cricket. and would desperately love to beat the aussies but equally i can admire them when... 0h, what's his chops,

them when... 0h, what's his chops, the spin bowler, what's his name? came on yesterday?— the spin bowler, what's his name? came on yesterday? gideon haigh, the cricket writer- — came on yesterday? gideon haigh, the cricket writer. no, _ came on yesterday? gideon haigh, the cricket writer. no, nathan _ came on yesterday? gideon haigh, the cricket writer. no, nathan lyon. - came on yesterday? gideon haigh, the cricket writer. no, nathan lyon. i- cricket writer. no, nathan lyon. i know that — cricket writer. no, nathan lyon. i know that wasn't _ cricket writer. no, nathan lyon. i know that wasn't gideon - cricket writer. no, nathan lyon. i know that wasn't gideon haigh, i | cricket writer. no, nathan lyon. i- know that wasn't gideon haigh, i was trying to remember to bring gideon haigh into tell us. but listen, it's the ashes, not a village green match. it the ashes, not a village green match. ., , �* ., . match. it doesn't matter. when nathan lyon — match. it doesn't matter. when nathan lyon came _ match. it doesn't matter. when nathan lyon came on _ match. it doesn't matter. when nathan lyon came on yesterday match. it doesn't matter. when l nathan lyon came on yesterday i admired him. he played hard, he played fair. you know, one of your earlier callers was criticising ben stokes in 2019 when the ball went off his bat for the boundary. there was nothing he could do about that. in fact in yesterday's match, the ball did 08085 ping off him from labuschagne. we have to do set a

better example, like the lady before was saying. they have to set a better example to the people coming up better example to the people coming up through the ranks. eta? better example to the people coming up through the ranks.— up through the ranks. stay there. simon in pontefract, _ up through the ranks. stay there. simon in pontefract, we - up through the ranks. stay there. simon in pontefract, we have - up through the ranks. stay there. simon in pontefract, we have two up through the ranks. stay there. - simon in pontefract, we have two set a better example to people coming up the ranks, this was a disgrace. i the ranks, this was a disgrace. i have never heard such sanctimonious drivel— have never heard such sanctimonious drivel as— have never heard such sanctimonious drivel as i_ have never heard such sanctimonious drivel as i have this morning. you should have _ drivel as i have this morning. you should have been _ drivel as i have this morning. wm, should have been here last week. drivel as i have this morning. you i should have been here last week. if we are going back to 1981 and the underarm. — we are going back to 1981 and the underarm, we might as well go back to 1935 _ underarm, we might as well go back to 1933. england had to come up with a plan _ to 1933. england had to come up with a plan to— to 1933. england had to come up with a plan to stop don bradman and they came _ a plan to stop don bradman and they came up— a plan to stop don bradman and they came up with body—line. it was within— came up with body—line. it was within the _ came up with body—line. it was within the rules but was it cricket? you can— within the rules but was it cricket? you can have that debate forever. what _ you can have that debate forever. what australia did yesterday in my opinion— what australia did yesterday in my opinion is— what australia did yesterday in my opinion is fair cop. jonny bairstow has to— opinion is fair cop. jonny bairstow has to be — opinion is fair cop. jonny bairstow has to be aware of the rules at all times _ has to be aware of the rules at all times i_ has to be aware of the rules at all times. i have no problem with what they did _ times. i have no problem with what they did and would have no problem if we did _

they did and would have no problem if we did the same to them. the site of stuart _ if we did the same to them. the site of stuart broad on his high horse, and one _ of stuart broad on his high horse, and one or— of stuart broad on his high horse, and one or two people have already mentioned — and one or two people have already mentioned have mentioned, the same fans were _ mentioned have mentioned, the same fans were cheering him a few years back when— fans were cheering him a few years back when he refused to walk at trent _ back when he refused to walk at trent bridge despite obviously being out. trent bridge despite obviously being out~ all_ trent bridge despite obviously being out all is _ trent bridge despite obviously being out. all is fair in love and sport and _ out. all is fair in love and sport and cricket _ out. all is fair in love and sport and cricket. i thought it was a fair cop _ and cricket. i thought it was a fair co -. . and cricket. i thought it was a fair co 0 _ ., ., , ., and cricket. i thought it was a fair co. ., ., , ., ., and cricket. i thought it was a fair c0 l , ., ., , ., ., ., cop. celia, all is fair in love and sort cop. celia, all is fair in love and sport and _ cop. celia, all is fair in love and sport and cricket. _ cop. celia, all is fair in love and sport and cricket. i _ cop. celia, all is fair in love and sport and cricket. i very - sport and cricket. i very respectfully _ sport and cricket. i very respectfully disagree. i | sport and cricket. i very - respectfully disagree. i don't sport and cricket. i very _ respectfully disagree. i don't think it is. it's not that it's not fair, just, would you want to win like that? last year i was at the women's t20, england against india. india were winning most of the match and it looks like they would win easily. then charlie dean came in and puts on an onslaught. the match finished with her being bank added. i left

that match feeling so disappointed and deflated. —— the match ended with her being mankadded. haifa and deflated. -- the match ended with her being mankadded. how are ou feelin: with her being mankadded. how are you feeling about _ with her being mankadded. how are you feeling about this, _ with her being mankadded. how are you feeling about this, georgian - you feeling about this, georgian bolton? i you feeling about this, georgian bolton? ., ., ., bolton? i feel mortified about our behaviour to _ bolton? i feel mortified about our behaviour to the _ bolton? i feel mortified about our behaviour to the australians. - bolton? i feel mortified about our behaviour to the australians. we l behaviour to the australians. we screamed — behaviour to the australians. we screamed at _ behaviour to the australians. we screamed at them, _ behaviour to the australians. we screamed at them, were - behaviour to the australians. we screamed at them, were booingl behaviour to the australians. we - screamed at them, were booing them, we whinged _ screamed at them, were booing them, we whinged at — screamed at them, were booing them, we whinged at them _ screamed at them, were booing them, we whinged at them about _ screamed at them, were booing them, we whinged at them about the - we whinged at them about the mitchelt— we whinged at them about the mitchell starc _ we whinged at them about the mitchell starc catch _ we whinged at them about the mitchell starc catch and - we whinged at them about the i mitchell starc catch and whinged about _ mitchell starc catch and whinged about bairstow _ mitchell starc catch and whinged about bairstow getting _ mitchell starc catch and whinged about bairstow getting out. - mitchell starc catch and whinged about bairstow getting out. i- mitchell starc catch and whinged i about bairstow getting out. i think it was— about bairstow getting out. i think it was out— about bairstow getting out. i think it was out and _ about bairstow getting out. i think it was out and i— about bairstow getting out. i think it was out and i think _ about bairstow getting out. i think it was out and i think it— about bairstow getting out. i think it was out and i think it is- it was out and i think it is perfectly— it was out and i think it is perfectly legitimate - it was out and i think it is perfectly legitimate and i it was out and i think it is. perfectly legitimate and he it was out and i think it is- perfectly legitimate and he made a naive _ perfectly legitimate and he made a naive mistake. _ perfectly legitimate and he made a naive mistake. even— perfectly legitimate and he made a naive mistake. even if— perfectly legitimate and he made a naive mistake. even if you - perfectly legitimate and he made a naive mistake. even if you think. perfectly legitimate and he made a naive mistake. even if you think iti naive mistake. even if you think it is the _ naive mistake. even if you think it is the worst— naive mistake. even if you think it is the worst breach _ naive mistake. even if you think it is the worst breach of _ naive mistake. even if you think it is the worst breach of the - naive mistake. even if you think it is the worst breach of the spirit i naive mistake. even if you think it is the worst breach of the spirit of the game — is the worst breach of the spirit of the game ever. _ is the worst breach of the spirit of the game ever, don't— is the worst breach of the spirit of the game ever, don't scream - is the worst breach of the spirit of the game ever, don't scream at. is the worst breach of the spirit of. the game ever, don't scream at him. let the game ever, don't scream at him. let me _ the game ever, don't scream at him. let me come — the game ever, don't scream at him. let me come back— the game ever, don't scream at him. let me come back to— the game ever, don't scream at him. let me come back to you _ the game ever, don't scream at him. let me come back to you in - the game ever, don't scream at him. let me come back to you in a - the game ever, don't scream at him. i let me come back to you in a second. let me come back to you in a second. let me come back to you in a second. let me tell people, the conversation will continue on 5 live, bbc sounds and bbc news will stop if you are watching on bbc two, politics live

is next. you were saying, george. h is next. you were saying, george. i was saying it was disgraceful behaviour— was saying it was disgraceful behaviour by— was saying it was disgraceful behaviour by the _ was saying it was disgraceful behaviour by the english - was saying it was disgracefull behaviour by the english fans was saying it was disgraceful- behaviour by the english fans and particularly — behaviour by the english fans and particularly by _ behaviour by the english fans and particularly by the _ behaviour by the english fans and particularly by the mcc— behaviour by the english fans and particularly by the mcc membersl behaviour by the english fans and i particularly by the mcc members in the long _ particularly by the mcc members in the long room. _ particularly by the mcc members in the long room, who _ particularly by the mcc members in the long room, who must - particularly by the mcc members in| the long room, who must represent some _ the long room, who must represent some higher— the long room, who must represent some higher level. _ the long room, who must represent some higher level. it _ the long room, who must represent some higher level. it can— the long room, who must represent some higher level. it can take - the long room, who must represent some higher level. it can take 25. some higher level. it can take 25 years— some higher level. it can take 25 years for— some higher level. it can take 25 years for them _ some higher level. it can take 25 years for them to _ some higher level. it can take 25 years for them to join _ some higher level. it can take 25 years for them to join that - some higher level. it can take 25 years for them to join that club i some higher level. it can take 25. years for them to join that club and they have _ years for them to join that club and they have to— years for them to join that club and they have to be _ years for them to join that club and they have to be supported - years for them to join that club and they have to be supported by - years for them to join that club and| they have to be supported by seven senior— they have to be supported by seven senior members— they have to be supported by seven senior members and _ they have to be supported by seven senior members and they _ they have to be supported by seven senior members and they were - senior members and they were screaming _ senior members and they were screaming at _ senior members and they were screaming at the _ senior members and they were screaming at the australian - senior members and they were - screaming at the australian players. it screaming at the australian players. it was _ screaming at the australian players. it was appalling~ _ screaming at the australian players. it was appalling. whatever- screaming at the australian players. it was appalling. whatever you - screaming at the australian players. j it was appalling. whatever you think of the _ it was appalling. whatever you think of the bairstow— it was appalling. whatever you think of the bairstow decision, _ it was appalling. whatever you think of the bairstow decision, they- of the bairstow decision, they behaved — of the bairstow decision, they behaved offaly_ of the bairstow decision, they behaved offaly and _ of the bairstow decision, they behaved offaly and i- of the bairstow decision, they behaved offaly and i want - of the bairstow decision, they behaved offaly and i want to. behaved offaly and i want to apologise _ behaved offaly and i want to apologise to _ behaved offaly and i want to apologise to australia. - behaved offaly and i want to apologise to australia. gideon hai . h, apologise to australia. gideon haigh. has — apologise to australia. gideon haigh. hasiust _ apologise to australia. gideon haigh, hasjust released - apologise to australia. gideon haigh, hasjust released a - apologise to australia. gideon | haigh, hasjust released a new apologise to australia. gideon - haigh, hasjust released a new book, haigh, has just released a new book, on the ashes. on the money factory this will be in the next edition. is this will be in the next edition. is this a footnote or a chapter? i did this a footnote or a chapter? i did riaht this a footnote or a chapter? i did ri . ht at this a footnote or a chapter? i did right at the _ this a footnote or a chapter? i did right at the end _ this a footnote or a chapter? i did right at the end of _ this a footnote or a chapter? i did right at the end of the _ this a footnote or a chapter? i c c right at the end of the book, i heard 2023 would justify a new edition. i have been thrilled to bits by the first couple of test matches. it is almost a shame we are

talking about this issue when the cricket has been so good. yesterday's match was so dramatic. i some somehow think it is a bit unfair to ben stokes. anyone who loved cricket yesterday would have been ecstatic about the innings from ben stokes. i was lucky enough to see him at 2019 in headingley and this was every bit as good, maybe even better, because it was such a complex scenario for him to play. he had more runs to get, more wickets at his disposal. it was astonishingly good cricket but in the press box i swear there were some journalists who didn't see a single ball bowled, they were so busy writing about what happened with bairstow.— with bairstow. lorraine in rochester, _ with bairstow. lorraine in rochester, what - with bairstow. lorraine in rochester, what do - with bairstow. lorraine in rochester, what do you i with bairstow. lorraine in - rochester, what do you reckon? with bairstow. lorraine in _ rochester, what do you reckon? are you there, hello?— rochester, what do you reckon? are you there, hello?- what - rochester, what do you reckon? are you there, hello? hello. what do you think, is it you there, hello? hello. what do you

think. is it playing — you there, hello? hello. what do you think, is it playing fair, _ you there, hello? hello. what do you think, is it playing fair, where - you there, hello? hello. what do you think, is it playing fair, where are you? think, is it playing fair, where are ou? . ., think, is it playing fair, where are ou? , ., ., ., . you? listening to it and watching it, as i you? listening to it and watching it. as i said _ you? listening to it and watching it, as i said in _ you? listening to it and watching it, as i said in my _ you? listening to it and watching it, as i said in my message, - it, as i said in my message, everybody— it, as i said in my message, everybody at that stage, when the ball went — everybody at that stage, when the ball went past him, half the ground stood _ ball went past him, half the ground stood up _ ball went past him, half the ground stood up because they obviously thought — stood up because they obviously thought the ball was out of play and as soon— thought the ball was out of play and as soon as _ thought the ball was out of play and as soon as we saw it on the screen, he hadn't _ as soon as we saw it on the screen, he hadn't touched down his bat, why did he _ he hadn't touched down his bat, why did he wander off, it's as simple as that _ did he wander off, it's as simple as that. ., , ., ., ., . , that. yeah, should have touched his bat down. that. yeah, should have touched his hat down- it — that. yeah, should have touched his bat down. it did _ that. yeah, should have touched his bat down. it did get _ that. yeah, should have touched his bat down. it did get very _ that. yeah, should have touched his bat down. it did get very ugly - bat down. it did get very ugly around the — bat down. it did get very ugly around the ground. _ bat down. it did get very ugly around the ground. i - bat down. it did get very ugly around the ground. i made i bat down. it did get very ugly around the ground. i made a | bat down. it did get very ugly - around the ground. i made a little video— around the ground. i made a little video to _ around the ground. i made a little video to say— around the ground. i made a little video to say we were going off to lunch _ video to say we were going off to lunch it — video to say we were going off to lunch. it was obviously, you know, as you _ lunch. it was obviously, you know, as you would — lunch. it was obviously, you know, as you would expect, the constant booing _ as you would expect, the constant booing and — as you would expect, the constant booing and the same old aussie's, always— booing and the same old aussie's, always cheating, it became very tiresome. — always cheating, it became very tiresome, really. as the day went on. tiresome, really. as the day went on~ white — tiresome, really. as the day went on. white max george, how embarrassing was it? it on. white max george, how embarrassing was it?- embarrassing was it? it was terrible. for _ embarrassing was it? it was terrible. for the _ embarrassing was it? it was terrible. for the mcc - embarrassing was it? it was terrible. for the mcc to - embarrassing was it? it was i terrible. for the mcc to behave embarrassing was it? it was - terrible. for the mcc to behave like that in— terrible. for the mcc to behave like that in the —

terrible. for the mcc to behave like that in the long _ terrible. for the mcc to behave like that in the long room _ terrible. for the mcc to behave like that in the long room and - terrible. for the mcc to behave like that in the long room and shout, . terrible. for the mcc to behave like that in the long room and shout, it| that in the long room and shout, it was interesting~ _ that in the long room and shout, it was interesting. it— that in the long room and shout, it was interesting. it was _ that in the long room and shout, it was interesting. it was only - that in the long room and shout, it was interesting. it was only a - that in the long room and shout, it was interesting. it was only a few. was interesting. it was only a few days— was interesting. it was only a few days ago— was interesting. it was only a few days ago we _ was interesting. it was only a few days ago we had _ was interesting. it was only a few days ago we had a _ was interesting. it was only a few days ago we had a report - was interesting. it was only a few days ago we had a report about i days ago we had a report about elitism — days ago we had a report about elitism and _ days ago we had a report about elitism and exclusion _ days ago we had a report about elitism and exclusion in - days ago we had a report about elitism and exclusion in cricket| days ago we had a report about. elitism and exclusion in cricket and now the _ elitism and exclusion in cricket and now the one — elitism and exclusion in cricket and now the one player— elitism and exclusion in cricket and now the one player they _ elitism and exclusion in cricket and now the one player they seemed . elitism and exclusion in cricket and | now the one player they seemed to scream _ now the one player they seemed to scream at _ now the one player they seemed to scream at the — now the one player they seemed to scream at the most _ now the one player they seemed to scream at the most was _ now the one player they seemed to scream at the most was the - now the one player they seemed to scream at the most was the one . now the one player they seemed to i scream at the most was the one bame player— scream at the most was the one bame player in— scream at the most was the one bame player in the _ scream at the most was the one bame player in the australian _ scream at the most was the one bame player in the australian team. - scream at the most was the one bame player in the australian team. it - player in the australian team. it was a _ player in the australian team. it was a realm _ player in the australian team. it was a real... you _ player in the australian team. it was a real... you can't - player in the australian team. it was a real... you can'tjump- player in the australian team. it was a real... you can'tjump upl player in the australian team. it. was a real... you can'tjump up and down _ was a real... you can'tjump up and downand— was a real... you can'tjump up and down and scream _ was a real... you can'tjump up and down and scream and _ was a real... you can'tjump up and down and scream and shout - was a real... you can'tjump up and down and scream and shout about i down and scream and shout about cricket _ down and scream and shout about cricket if _ down and scream and shout about cricket if you — down and scream and shout about cricket if you are _ down and scream and shout about cricket if you are jumping - down and scream and shout about cricket if you are jumping up - down and scream and shout about cricket if you are jumping up and i cricket if you are jumping up and down _ cricket if you are jumping up and down and — cricket if you are jumping up and down and screaming... - cricket if you are jumping up and down and screaming... it's - cricket if you are jumping up and down and screaming. . ._ down and screaming... it's a fair comment. _ down and screaming... it's a fair comment, isn't _ down and screaming... it's a fair comment, isn't it, _ down and screaming... it's a fair comment, isn't it, gideon - down and screaming... it's a fair| comment, isn't it, gideon haigh? absolutely. george is totally on the money. the strange thing is that the marylebone members don't seem to understand the laws that their own club promulgates and they expect to play by. there are some ambiguous

statutes in cricket but the dead ball one is not. the ball basically remains live for as long as any player believes it to be live. and that belief has been communicated to the umpires will stop clearly the umpires believe the ball was live because they gave bairstow out. this recourse to the spirit of cricket, well, the spirit of cricket is now part of the preamble of the laws of the game 2000 code. two things that it says that i think are important to site. play hard and play fair, and accept the umpire's decision. that's obviously what england are not doing in this case. they are not accepting the umpire's decision. they say the umpires were out of place, out of kilter, at odds with the game. ifind place, out of kilter, at odds with the game. i find that very

disappointing from england's point of view. i think if the boot had been on the other foot, england fans would have taken absolute delight in such a crude and opportunistic gambit. such a crude and opportunistic ambit. . ~ such a crude and opportunistic ambit. ., ~ ., such a crude and opportunistic ambit. ., ,, ., ., , gambit. let me take that one up. i will be back— gambit. let me take that one up. i will be back with _ gambit. let me take that one up. i will be back with you _ gambit. let me take that one up. i will be back with you in _ gambit. let me take that one up. i will be back with you in a - gambit. let me take that one up. i will be back with you in a minute. l will be back with you in a minute. kevin in stalybridge. kevin, if the boot had been on the other foot, imagine we'd be having this conversation this morning about england's taking advantage of the situation, not in the spirit of the game but perfectly within the rules. and some of the people now who are complaining about it and whinging would be gloating. do we spy some double standards here? nigel in salisbury, what do you think? morning. jonny bairstow is a wicketkeeper and i think some of the critics— wicketkeeper and i think some of the critics have _ wicketkeeper and i think some of the critics have forgotten he is a specialist _ critics have forgotten he is a specialist wicketkeeper and therefore he knows that according to law 20 _ therefore he knows that according to law 20 players generally believe once the — law 20 players generally believe

once the ball has settled in the wicketkeeper's glover, at that moment— wicketkeeper's glover, at that moment the ball becomes dead. that is written _ moment the ball becomes dead. that is written down in law 20. on top of that he _ is written down in law 20. on top of that he has— is written down in law 20. on top of that he has also seen both umpires alter position, the bowling end umpire — alter position, the bowling end umpire has adjusted his position to -ive umpire has adjusted his position to give the _ umpire has adjusted his position to give the cap back to the bowler. the square _ give the cap back to the bowler. the square leg _ give the cap back to the bowler. the square leg umpire is beginning to move _ square leg umpire is beginning to move in— square leg umpire is beginning to move in so— square leg umpire is beginning to move in so all the indications are to bairstow— move in so all the indications are to bairstow that the ball is dead and over— to bairstow that the ball is dead and over has been called. i think in the circumstances i don't think he is naive. — the circumstances i don't think he is naive. he — the circumstances i don't think he is naive, he has acted honestly and ithink— is naive, he has acted honestly and i think his — is naive, he has acted honestly and i think his understanding of whether or not— i think his understanding of whether or not the _ i think his understanding of whether or not the ball was dead was exploited in a cynical fashion. it may— exploited in a cynical fashion. it may not— exploited in a cynical fashion. it may not have been strictly illegal but i may not have been strictly illegal but i think— may not have been strictly illegal but i think it was sporting. | may not have been strictly illegal but i think it was sporting.- but i think it was sporting. i love cricketologists _ but i think it was sporting. i love cricketologists when _ but i think it was sporting. i love cricketologists when you - but i think it was sporting. i love cricketologists when you get - but i think it was sporting. i love i cricketologists when you get them going! cricketologists when you get them a oin a ! ., , , ., cricketologists when you get them anoin! ., , �* going! clearly the ball wasn't settled in — going! clearly the ball wasn't settled in the _ going! clearly the ball wasn't settled in the gloves - going! clearly the ball wasn't settled in the gloves of- going! clearly the ball wasn't settled in the gloves of alex| going! clearly the ball wasn't - settled in the gloves of alex carey because he immediately threw it back towards the stumps. it's not as though alex carey held onto the ball

and tried to deceive bairstow into believing the ball was dead. the ball went into his gloves and he threw it straight back. as for the umpires and trying to read their body language, there is no mention of body language and the interpretation of their body language in the laws of the game. frankly, if the umpires believe the ball was dead then nothing prevented them from saying, we don't accept them from saying, we don't accept the appeal. the umpires have got off pretty lightly. l the appeal. the umpires have got off pretty lightly-— pretty lightly. i think bairstow has been misled _ pretty lightly. i think bairstow has been misled by _ pretty lightly. i think bairstow has been misled by the _ pretty lightly. i think bairstow has been misled by the context. - pretty lightly. i think bairstow has been misled by the context. he i pretty lightly. i think bairstow has been misled by the context. he is| been misled by the context. he is perfectly— been misled by the context. he is perfectly entitled to believe the ball is _ perfectly entitled to believe the ball is dead because firstly as a wicketkeeper himself he will know when _ wicketkeeper himself he will know when it— wicketkeeper himself he will know when it settles in the glove it is usually — when it settles in the glove it is usually regarded in most games as dead _ usually regarded in most games as dead. secondly, if the umpires are no longer— dead. secondly, if the umpires are no longer in — dead. secondly, if the umpires are no longer in position to watch the play because remember that the umpires— play because remember that the umpires had to refer it to the television match official. | umpires had to refer it to the television match official. i don't

know why they _ television match official. i don't know why they did _ television match official. i don't know why they did that. - television match official. i don't know why they did that. why - television match official. i don'tj know why they did that. why did television match official. i don't - know why they did that. why did they do it and why was it necessary? therefore if the umpires are not in a position— therefore if the umpires are not in a position to — therefore if the umpires are not in a position to clearly watch the play accurately— a position to clearly watch the play accurately then obviously the ball at that _ accurately then obviously the ball at that moment is dead and bairstow genuinely— at that moment is dead and bairstow genuinely thought by the context and circumstances that the ball was dead _ circumstances that the ball was dead. there is another thing that hasn't _ dead. there is another thing that hasn't been mentioned yet, which is the benefit — hasn't been mentioned yet, which is the benefit of the doubt. it has long _ the benefit of the doubt. it has long been accepted in cricket that in the _ long been accepted in cricket that in the event of any doubt the circumstances remain unchanged which basically— circumstances remain unchanged which basically means the not out batsman remains _ basically means the not out batsman remains not — basically means the not out batsman remains not out and i don't think there _ remains not out and i don't think there was— remains not out and i don't think there was any element of benefit of there was any element of benefit of the doubt _ there was any element of benefit of the doubt been given here.- the doubt been given here. benefit ofthe the doubt been given here. benefit of the doubt _ the doubt been given here. benefit of the doubt is _ the doubt been given here. benefit of the doubt is not _ the doubt been given here. benefit of the doubt is not in _ the doubt been given here. benefit of the doubt is not in the _ the doubt been given here. benefit of the doubt is not in the laws - the doubt been given here. benefit of the doubt is not in the laws of i of the doubt is not in the laws of cricket was that it is merely a convention and is honoured more often then breached these days will stop the benefit of the doubt goes to the umpire if anything. have you seen the footage of bairstow trying to do exactly the same thing to marnus labuschagne in the edgbaston test? l

marnus labuschagne in the edgbaston test? . �* . . marnus labuschagne in the edgbaston test?— marnus - test? i haven't seen that. marnus labuschagne _ test? i haven't seen that. marnus labuschagne strolled _ test? i haven't seen that. marnus labuschagne strolled out - test? i haven't seen that. marnus labuschagne strolled out of - test? i haven't seen that. marnus labuschagne strolled out of his i labuschagne strolled out of his ground and bairstow tried to do exactly the same. l ground and bairstow tried to do exactly the same.— ground and bairstow tried to do exactly the same. i am going to a eel for exactly the same. i am going to a peel for the _ exactly the same. i am going to a peel for the first _ exactly the same. i am going to a peel for the first time _ exactly the same. i am going to a peel for the first time in - exactly the same. i am going to a peel for the first time in my - exactly the same. i am going to a peel for the first time in my life. | peel for the first time in my life. i will appeal to another umpire, if only we had one. we do. everything crowthorne, a former first—class umpire in south africa. you hear nigel, george, celia, and the great gideon haigh, so what do you say? good morning. ithink gideon haigh, so what do you say? good morning. i think we need to look at _ good morning. i think we need to look at this— good morning. i think we need to look at this from _ good morning. i think we need to look at this from 40 _ good morning. i think we need to look at this from 40 years - good morning. i think we need to look at this from 40 years of - look at this from 40 years of umpiring. _ look at this from 40 years of umpiring. and _ look at this from 40 years of umpiring, and i— look at this from 40 years of umpiring, and i am - look at this from 40 years of umpiring, and i am still- look at this from 40 years of - umpiring, and i am still umpiring. the bottom— umpiring, and i am still umpiring. the bottom line _ umpiring, and i am still umpiring. the bottom line is, _ umpiring, and i am still umpiring. the bottom line is, as— umpiring, and i am still umpiring. the bottom line is, as an - umpiring, and i am still umpiring. the bottom line is, as an umpire, j the bottom line is, as an umpire, you watch— the bottom line is, as an umpire, you watch every— the bottom line is, as an umpire, you watch every single _ the bottom line is, as an umpire, you watch every single delivery i you watch every single delivery until— you watch every single delivery until it — you watch every single delivery until it is — you watch every single delivery until it is finally _ you watch every single delivery until it is finally settled - you watch every single delivery until it is finally settled in - you watch every single delivery until it is finally settled in the i until it is finally settled in the hands — until it is finally settled in the hands of— until it is finally settled in the hands of the _ until it is finally settled in the hands of the wicketkeeper. i until it is finally settled in the | hands of the wicketkeeper. as until it is finally settled in the - hands of the wicketkeeper. as the law says. — hands of the wicketkeeper. as the law says. the _ hands of the wicketkeeper. as the law says, the law— hands of the wicketkeeper. as the law says, the law says _ hands of the wicketkeeper. as the law says, the law says the - hands of the wicketkeeper. as the law says, the law says the ball- hands of the wicketkeeper. as the law says, the law says the ball is i law says, the law says the ball is dead _ law says, the law says the ball is dead when— law says, the law says the ball is dead when it _ law says, the law says the ball is dead when it has _ law says, the law says the ball is dead when it has finally - law says, the law says the ball is dead when it has finally settled i law says, the law says the ball is| dead when it has finally settled in the hands — dead when it has finally settled in the hands of— dead when it has finally settled in the hands of the _ dead when it has finally settled in the hands of the wicketkeeper. i dead when it has finally settled in i the hands of the wicketkeeper. the interpretation — the hands of the wicketkeeper. the interpretation of— the hands of the wicketkeeper. the interpretation of that, _ the hands of the wicketkeeper. the interpretation of that, and - the hands of the wicketkeeper. the interpretation of that, and has i the hands of the wicketkeeper. the | interpretation of that, and has been for many— interpretation of that, and has been for many years _

interpretation of that, and has been for many years at _ interpretation of that, and has been for many years at first—class - interpretation of that, and has been for many years at first—class level, i for many years at first—class level, was. _ for many years at first—class level, was. was _ for many years at first—class level, was. was there _ for many years at first—class level, was, was there any— for many years at first—class level, was, was there any intention i for many years at first—class level, was, was there any intention by. for many years at first—class level, l was, was there any intention by the wicketkeeper— was, was there any intention by the wicketkeeper to _ was, was there any intention by the wicketkeeper to want _ was, was there any intention by the wicketkeeper to want to _ was, was there any intention by the wicketkeeper to want to do - was, was there any intention by the | wicketkeeper to want to do anything further— wicketkeeper to want to do anything further with— wicketkeeper to want to do anything further with that _ wicketkeeper to want to do anything further with that ball— wicketkeeper to want to do anything further with that ball thinking - wicketkeeper to want to do anything further with that ball thinking that i further with that ball thinking that there _ further with that ball thinking that there was— further with that ball thinking that there was the _ further with that ball thinking that there was the possibility - further with that ball thinking that there was the possibility of - further with that ball thinking thati there was the possibility of running somebody— there was the possibility of running somebody out? _ there was the possibility of running somebody out? so _ there was the possibility of running somebody out? so you _ there was the possibility of running somebody out? so you as - there was the possibility of running somebody out? so you as an - there was the possibility of running i somebody out? so you as an umpire have to _ somebody out? so you as an umpire have to physically— somebody out? so you as an umpire have to physically watch _ somebody out? so you as an umpire have to physically watch the - somebody out? so you as an umpire have to physically watch the ball- somebody out? so you as an umpire have to physically watch the ball gol have to physically watch the ball go into his _ have to physically watch the ball go into his hands. _ have to physically watch the ball go into his hands. normally— have to physically watch the ball go into his hands. normally it- have to physically watch the ball go into his hands. normally it is- have to physically watch the ball go into his hands. normally it is sent i into his hands. normally it is sent to the _ into his hands. normally it is sent to the first — into his hands. normally it is sent to the first or— into his hands. normally it is sent to the first or second _ into his hands. normally it is sent to the first or second slip - into his hands. normally it is sent to the first or second slip and i into his hands. normally it is sent to the first or second slip and on i to the first or second slip and on we go _ to the first or second slip and on we go but— to the first or second slip and on we go but the _ to the first or second slip and on we go. but the moment - to the first or second slip and on we go. but the moment he i to the first or second slip and on i we go. but the moment he carries the ball on. _ we go. but the moment he carries the ball on. the _ we go. but the moment he carries the ball on, the ball— we go. but the moment he carries the ball on, the ball is _ we go. but the moment he carries the ball on, the ball is dead. _ we go. but the moment he carries the ball on, the ball is dead. in— we go. but the moment he carries the ball on, the ball is dead. in this - ball on, the ball is dead. in this situation. — ball on, the ball is dead. in this situation, look— ball on, the ball is dead. in this situation, look at _ ball on, the ball is dead. in this situation, look at the _ ball on, the ball is dead. in this i situation, look at the wicketkeeper, there _ situation, look at the wicketkeeper, there was— situation, look at the wicketkeeper, there was no— situation, look at the wicketkeeper, there was no intention _ situation, look at the wicketkeeper, there was no intention of— situation, look at the wicketkeeper, there was no intention of him - situation, look at the wicketkeeper, i there was no intention of him seeing bairstow— there was no intention of him seeing bairstow or— there was no intention of him seeing bairstow or knowing _ there was no intention of him seeing bairstow or knowing what _ there was no intention of him seeing bairstow or knowing what bairstow. bairstow or knowing what bairstow was doing~ — bairstow or knowing what bairstow was doing~ he _ bairstow or knowing what bairstow was doing. he was— bairstow or knowing what bairstow was doing. he was simply- was doing. he was simply instinctively— was doing. he was simply instinctively going - was doing. he was simply instinctively going to i was doing. he was simplyl instinctively going to catch was doing. he was simply- instinctively going to catch the ball and — instinctively going to catch the ball and roll— instinctively going to catch the ball and roll it _ instinctively going to catch the ball and roll it to _ instinctively going to catch the ball and roll it to the - instinctively going to catch the ball and roll it to the other. instinctively going to catch the i ball and roll it to the other side. it ball and roll it to the other side. it happened _ ball and roll it to the other side. it happened to _ ball and roll it to the other side. it happened to hit _ ball and roll it to the other side. it happened to hit the _ ball and roll it to the other side. it happened to hit the stumps i ball and roll it to the other side. i it happened to hit the stumps and in my opinion _ it happened to hit the stumps and in my opinion one _ it happened to hit the stumps and in my opinion one has _ it happened to hit the stumps and in my opinion one has to _ it happened to hit the stumps and in my opinion one has to look - it happened to hit the stumps and in my opinion one has to look at - it happened to hit the stumps and in my opinion one has to look at that, i my opinion one has to look at that, as well— my opinion one has to look at that, as well as — my opinion one has to look at that, as well as in — my opinion one has to look at that, as well as in the _ my opinion one has to look at that, as well as in the laws _ my opinion one has to look at that, as well as in the laws of _ my opinion one has to look at that, as well as in the laws of cricket i my opinion one has to look at that, as well as in the laws of cricket nol as well as in the laws of cricket no one law— as well as in the laws of cricket no one law covers _ as well as in the laws of cricket no one law covers everything - as well as in the laws of cricket no one law covers everything to i as well as in the laws of cricket no one law covers everything to stopl one law covers everything to stop you have — one law covers everything to stop you have to— one law covers everything to stop you have to look— one law covers everything to stop you have to look at _ one law covers everything to stop you have to look at unfair- one law covers everything to stop you have to look at unfair play, i one law covers everything to stop i you have to look at unfair play, you have _ you have to look at unfair play, you have to _ you have to look at unfair play, you have to look — you have to look at unfair play, you have to look at _ you have to look at unfair play, you have to look at the _ you have to look at unfair play, you have to look at the dead _ you have to look at unfair play, you have to look at the dead ball - you have to look at unfair play, you have to look at the dead ball rule. i have to look at the dead ball rule. at the _ have to look at the dead ball rule. at the end — have to look at the dead ball rule.

at the end of— have to look at the dead ball rule. at the end of the _ have to look at the dead ball rule. at the end of the day _ have to look at the dead ball rule. at the end of the day both - have to look at the dead ball rule. | at the end of the day both umpires should _ at the end of the day both umpires should have — at the end of the day both umpires should have got _ at the end of the day both umpires should have got together— at the end of the day both umpires should have got together and - at the end of the day both umpires . should have got together and discuss the situatioh — should have got together and discuss the situation. was— should have got together and discuss the situation. was this _ should have got together and discuss the situation. was this the _ should have got together and discuss the situation. was this the wilful - the situation. was this the wilful intehtioh— the situation. was this the wilful intention of— the situation. was this the wilful intention of trying _ the situation. was this the wilful intention of trying to _ the situation. was this the wilful intention of trying to steal - the situation. was this the wilful intention of trying to steal the l the situation. was this the wilful. intention of trying to steal the run of somebody. _ intention of trying to steal the run of somebody, and _ intention of trying to steal the run of somebody, and in— intention of trying to steal the run of somebody, and in my- intention of trying to steal the run of somebody, and in my humble i of somebody, and in my humble opinion— of somebody, and in my humble opinion what _ of somebody, and in my humble opinion what has _ of somebody, and in my humble opinion what has gone _ of somebody, and in my humble opinion what has gone out - of somebody, and in my humble opinion what has gone out of- of somebody, and in my humble - opinion what has gone out of cricket nowadays _ opinion what has gone out of cricket nowadays was — opinion what has gone out of cricket nowadays was the _ opinion what has gone out of cricket nowadays was the referral— opinion what has gone out of cricket nowadays was the referral system. i opinion what has gone out of cricket| nowadays was the referral system. if the field _ nowadays was the referral system. if the field umpires— nowadays was the referral system. if the field umpires don't— nowadays was the referral system. if the field umpires don't want - nowadays was the referral system. if the field umpires don't want to - nowadays was the referral system. if the field umpires don't want to get l the field umpires don't want to get involved _ the field umpires don't want to get involved they — the field umpires don't want to get involved they have _ the field umpires don't want to get involved they have a _ the field umpires don't want to get involved they have a system - the field umpires don't want to get involved they have a system now l the field umpires don't want to get| involved they have a system now to pass the _ involved they have a system now to pass the buck _ involved they have a system now to pass the buck. they— involved they have a system now to pass the buck. they will— involved they have a system now to pass the buck. they will pass - involved they have a system now to pass the buck. they will pass the l pass the buck. they will pass the buck _ pass the buck. they will pass the buck to _ pass the buck. they will pass the buck to the — pass the buck. they will pass the buck to the third _ pass the buck. they will pass the buck to the third umpire - pass the buck. they will pass the buck to the third umpire and - pass the buck. they will pass the i buck to the third umpire and don't -et buck to the third umpire and don't get involved — buck to the third umpire and don't get involved and _ buck to the third umpire and don't get involved and i— buck to the third umpire and don't get involved and i think— buck to the third umpire and don't get involved and i think that- buck to the third umpire and don't get involved and i think that is- get involved and i think that is nonsense _ get involved and i think that is nonsense-— get involved and i think that is nonsense. ., , ., , ., nonsense. your humble opinion is not humble, it is— nonsense. your humble opinion is not humble, it is based _ nonsense. your humble opinion is not humble, it is based on _ nonsense. your humble opinion is not humble, it is based on a _ nonsense. your humble opinion is not humble, it is based on a lot _ nonsense. your humble opinion is not humble, it is based on a lot of - humble, it is based on a lot of experience and knowledge. it is experience and knowledge. it is based on 40 — experience and knowledge. it is based on 40 years of experience. experience and knowledge. it is - based on 40 years of experience. tim in brighton. — based on 40 years of experience. in brighton, how long have you been an mcc member if i'm right in saying you are. an mcc member if i'm right in saying ou are. , . ., an mcc member if i'm right in saying ou are. , . . , you are. yes, i am. i have been nearly 15 _ you are. yes, i am. i have been nearly 15 years _ you are. yes, i am. i have been nearly 15 years now. _ you are. yes, i am. i have been nearly 15 years now. that - you are. yes, i am. i have been nearly 15 years now. that is - you are. yes, i am. i have been nearly 15 years now. that is a i you are. yes, i am. i have been. nearly 15 years now. that is a fair inninas. nearly 15 years now. that is a fair innings were — nearly 15 years now. that is a fair innings. were you _ nearly 15 years now. that is a fair innings. were you there - nearly 15 years now. that is a fair innings. were you there in - nearly 15 years now. that is a fair innings. were you there in the i nearly 15 years now. that is a fair. innings. were you there in the long room? i innings. were you there in the long room? . , innings. were you there in the long room? ,, . ,

innings. were you there in the long room? .,, ,, ., , room? i was upstairs in the room above. i room? i was upstairs in the room above- iwas— room? i was upstairs in the room above. i was not _ room? i was upstairs in the room above. i was not in _ room? i was upstairs in the room above. i was not in the _ room? i was upstairs in the room above. i was not in the long - room? i was upstairs in the room | above. i was not in the long room, room? i was upstairs in the room i above. i was not in the long room, i coutdnt— above. i was not in the long room, i couldn't get — above. i was not in the long room, i couldn't get in— above. i was not in the long room, i couldn't get in because it was packed — couldn't get in because it was packed. let me tell you, when the austratian— packed. let me tell you, when the australian players walked back through — australian players walked back through and it was all kicking off, it was— through and it was all kicking off, it was disgraceful. i want to say how disappointed i am, there were three _ how disappointed i am, there were three members who lost their right and i_ three members who lost their right and i have — three members who lost their right and i have tarnished the rest of us with this _ and i have tarnished the rest of us with this brush of, i don't know what _ with this brush of, i don't know what they— with this brush of, i don't know what they were thinking. the crowd had their— what they were thinking. the crowd had their backs up. emotions were running _ had their backs up. emotions were running high. clearly they got completely caught up in it and i don't _ completely caught up in it and i don't know what they were thinking. can i don't know what they were thinking. can i say— don't know what they were thinking. can i say something on that? tiers; can i say something on that? very ruickl . can i say something on that? very quickly- from _ can i say something on that? very quickly. from an _ can i say something on that? very quickly. from an umpiring - quickly. from an umpiring persraective. _ quickly. from an umpiring perspective, we _ quickly. from an umpiring perspective, we are - quickly. from an umpiring perspective, we are not i quickly. from an umpiring - perspective, we are not interested in the _ perspective, we are not interested in the emotions _ perspective, we are not interested in the emotions of _ perspective, we are not interested in the emotions of the _ perspective, we are not interested in the emotions of the crowd - perspective, we are not interested in the emotions of the crowd and i in the emotions of the crowd and what _ in the emotions of the crowd and what is _ in the emotions of the crowd and what is happening. _ in the emotions of the crowd and what is happening. we _ in the emotions of the crowd and what is happening. we honestlyi in the emotions of the crowd and - what is happening. we honestly don't -ive what is happening. we honestly don't give a _ what is happening. we honestly don't give a damn — what is happening. we honestly don't give a damn you— what is happening. we honestly don't give a damn. you have _ what is happening. we honestly don't give a damn. you have to— what is happening. we honestly don't give a damn. you have to remain - give a damn. you have to remain absotutety — give a damn. you have to remain absolutely impartial. _ give a damn. you have to remain absolutely impartial. you - give a damn. you have to remain absolutely impartial. you put - give a damn. you have to remain absolutely impartial. you put the crowd _ absolutely impartial. you put the crowd out~ — absolutely impartial. you put the crowd out you _ absolutely impartial. you put the crowd out. you are _ absolutely impartial. you put the crowd out. you are not— absolutely impartial. you put the | crowd out. you are not interested absolutely impartial. you put the i crowd out. you are not interested in what's _ crowd out. you are not interested in what's going — crowd out. you are not interested in what's going on _ crowd out. you are not interested in what's going on it— crowd out. you are not interested in what's going on. [it is _ crowd out. you are not interested in what's going om— what's going on. it is a consequence, - what's going on. it is a consequence, the - what's going on. it is a l consequence, the crowd what's going on. it is a _ consequence, the crowd behaviour is

a consequence of a controversial decision. tim, you are disgusted with your fellow members. this is terrible. what possessed them? let me just say, i'll tell you what, part— me just say, i'll tell you what, part of— me just say, i'll tell you what, part of the _ me just say, i'll tell you what, part of the issue was, and at one point _ part of the issue was, and at one point in — part of the issue was, and at one point in one _ part of the issue was, and at one point in one of the stance we had labuschagne and warner come right up to the _ labuschagne and warner come right up to the boundary and baiting us. we were _ to the boundary and baiting us. we were booing, give us more. to put it in perspective, they were riling up the crowd — in perspective, they were riling up the crowd before the lunch break. i am not _ the crowd before the lunch break. i am not saying they are to blame but they were _ am not saying they are to blame but they were partly to blame because of this stupid _ they were partly to blame because of this stupid banter. | they were partly to blame because of this stupid banter.— this stupid banter. i heard a rumble in the jungle _ this stupid banter. i heard a rumble in the jungle from _ this stupid banter. i heard a rumble in the jungle from gideon _ this stupid banter. i heard a rumble in the jungle from gideon haigh. i in the jungle from gideon haigh. should they havejust in the jungle from gideon haigh. should they have just stood there and taken it from the crowd? tim? yeah, i and taken it from the crowd? tim? yeah. i mean. _ and taken it from the crowd? tim? yeah. i mean. i— and taken it from the crowd? tim? yeah, i mean, i don't— and taken it from the crowd? tim? yeah, i mean, i don't know. - and taken it from the crowd? tim? yeah, i mean, i don't know. the i yeah, i mean, i don't know. the whole _ yeah, i mean, i don't know. the whole thing _ yeah, i mean, i don't know. the whole thing was ridiculous. the

austratian— whole thing was ridiculous. the australian players in my book didn't play fair~ _ australian players in my book didn't play fair~ a — australian players in my book didn't play fair. a warning was what was needed — play fair. a warning was what was needed a— play fair. a warning was what was needed. �* . play fair. a warning was what was needed._ give - play fair. a warning was what was needed._ give a - play fair. a warning was what was - needed._ give a warning. needed. a warning?! give a warning. if ou are needed. a warning?! give a warning. if you are coming _ needed. a warning?! give a warning. if you are coming in, _ needed. a warning?! give a warning. if you are coming in, stepping - needed. a warning?! give a warning. if you are coming in, stepping over, l if you are coming in, stepping over, 'ust if you are coming in, stepping over, just give _ if you are coming in, stepping over, just give a _ if you are coming in, stepping over, just give a warning, tell him and go for it— just give a warning, tell him and go for it next— just give a warning, tell him and go for it next time. i think it is slightly— for it next time. i think it is slightly unfair. if we are sticking to the _ slightly unfair. if we are sticking to the rules, the rules are the rutes— to the rules, the rules are the rules and _ to the rules, the rules are the rules and he was out.- to the rules, the rules are the rules and he was out. calm down, everyone- — rules and he was out. calm down, everyone- i _ rules and he was out. calm down, everyone. ithink— rules and he was out. calm down, everyone. ithink i _ rules and he was out. calm down, everyone. i think! might - rules and he was out. calm down, everyone. i think i might have - rules and he was out. calm down, i everyone. i think! might have heard everyone. i think i might have heard a bad word along the way there. it's passion is. if you were offended by it we apologise. the heart can get stirred at times like this. stuart broad has been tweeting this morning. a great ashes battle. loved being out there with ben stokes in that mood. some controversial moments that will split opinions. that's sport. lord's, as loud and

animated as i have ever heard it. on to leeds we go. how will the members feel about that, tim? i to leeds we go. how will the members feel about that, tim?— feel about that, tim? i hope it all calms down- _ feel about that, tim? i hope it all calms down- i _ feel about that, tim? i hope it all calms down. i think— feel about that, tim? i hope it all calms down. i think the _ feel about that, tim? i hope it all calms down. i think the members feel about that, tim? i hope it all- calms down. i think the members will take time _ calms down. i think the members will take time to — calms down. i think the members will take time to reflect on this and already— take time to reflect on this and already the mcc has made moves to ban various— already the mcc has made moves to ban various members. i think it's all a _ ban various members. i think it's all a bit _ ban various members. i think it's all a bit of— ban various members. i think it's all a bit of pantomime and we need to calm _ all a bit of pantomime and we need to calm down and see what the crowd at headingley has got for the aussies _ at headingley has got for the aussies. a at headingley has got for the aussies. �* , ., ., �*, aussies. a bit of pantomime. it's behind you- _ aussies. a bit of pantomime. it's behind you. it's _ aussies. a bit of pantomime. it's behind you. it's behind _ aussies. a bit of pantomime. it's behind you. it's behind you! - aussies. a bit of pantomime. it's behind you. it's behind you! we l aussies. a bit of pantomime. it's - behind you. it's behind you! we move on. ., . ., behind you. it's behind you! we move on. someone tell that to jonny bairstow _ on. someone tell that to jonny bairstow. wow. _ on. someone tell that to jonny bairstow. wow. what - on. someone tell that to jonny bairstow. wow. what an - on. someone tell that to jonny bairstow. wow. what an hour. | bairstow. wow. what an hour. goodness _ bairstow. wow. what an hour. goodness me. _ bairstow. wow. what an hour. goodness me. i _ bairstow. wow. what an hour. goodness me. i was _ bairstow. wow. what an hour. goodness me. i was like - bairstow. wow. what an hour. goodness me. i was like a - bairstow. wow. what an hour. - goodness me. i was like a spectator with a unique window into another world. it was fascinating. i'm not a

non—fan, i kind of enjoy it. not like you guys. you are all professors. as you proceed through the day, keep it clean. the numbers... hottestjune — what should we do? last month then the hottestjune on record. it meant unprecedented deaths of fish in rivers and disturbed insects and plants, environment groups have warned. it is all a bit depressing but we have to face up to it, we have to do something, we can'tjust put our hands in the air and say a bad word. the wildlife trusts said... "nature is being pounded by extreme weather without a chance to recover." people also used more water

with demand increasing by 25% at peak times in some areas, said water uk. the met office will say later today if the high temperatures were linked to climate change. but if so, is this a wake—up moment? so, your reaction, let us know. what have you seen? perhaps you've seen evidence yourselves of the effect of the hot weather on our wildlife. hottestjune — what should we do? deena campbell with the 5live news. a firefighter has died in paris while trying to douse vehicles that

were set on fire during riots after a teenager was killed by a police officer. around 150 people were arrested across france last night compared with more than 700 the night before. a group of conservative backbenchers has warned the government that it needs to take urgent action to cut immigration or it risks losing public trust. the group called the new conservatives wants to bring annual net migration down from around 600,000 tojust over 200,000. palestinian officials say at least five people have been killed and nearly 30 injured after israel launched a large—scale military operation in the occupied west bank. israeli forces targeted a refugee camp in the city ofjenin which it says was being used as a command centre by various militant groups. the palestinian prime minister has condemned the attacks. the met office is expected to confirm that last month was the hottestjune ever recorded in the uk. environmental groups say the high temperatures caused the deaths of unprecedented numbers of fish in rivers and disturbed insects and plants.

the met office will later confirm if the high temperatures were linked to climate change. the hottestjune on record — what should we do? professor liz bentley, chief executive of the royal meteorological society. hello to you. good morning. rivertrust, grand union canal, seeing some depressing things, hello, john bennett. and hugh warwick, ecologist and author, specialises in hedgehogs, a big concern, insects, our precious british flora and fauna, our precious wildlife, the

government has been criticised from its own about its lack of action on climate change, blurring some of its commitments. and also on our precious animals. so, professor liz bentley, what the hell is going on? yeah, so, quite an exceptionaljune, record—breaking for the month as a whole, i think that will be confirmed later today by the met office and i think that is now very likely because temperatures were well above as we went into those last few days, high pressure dominated throughoutjune and dominated throughout june and temperatures dominated throughoutjune and temperatures typically above 25 degrees consistently for days on end and then that was replaced by some very hot and humid air at the end of the month with temperatures reaching over 32 degrees on a couple of days. so, that record has tumbled, yet another monthly record has tumbled, we have now had eight of our months during the year that have broken their all—time record, these records go back to the 18005 and it is

really a clear sign that our climate is changing. the really a clear sign that our climate is changing-— really a clear sign that our climate is chanauin. ., is changing. the government has said it wants to achieve _ is changing. the government has said it wants to achieve what _ is changing. the government has said it wants to achieve what is _ is changing. the government has said it wants to achieve what is known - is changing. the government has said it wants to achieve what is known as i it wants to achieve what is known as net zero by 2050, so the amount of greenhouse gases, carbon dioxide, methane, nitrous oxide, being released into the air, would be the same as the amount removed, if we do achieve that, liz what difference will it make?— achieve that, liz what difference will it make? yeah, so, yeah, we have a target _ will it make? yeah, so, yeah, we have a target set _ will it make? yeah, so, yeah, we have a target set by _ will it make? yeah, so, yeah, we have a target set by the - will it make? yeah, so, yeah, we have a target set by the paris - have a target set by the paris agreement which was set in 2015 to try and limit global average temperatures reaching above 1.5 celsius, and in order to do that, we need to get to net zero emissions by 2050, by the middle of the century. in order to get to net zero by the middle of the century we have to take action now, we can'tjust leave it for another decade and then try and sort it out in the last few days as we go up to 2050. up to 2030 we've really got to make some headway and get down to reducing those emissions by half during this

particular decade. but if we can limit things to 1.5, then it really does help to mitigate against real extreme climate change. i mean we are already seeing the impacts of climate change, we have got to learn to adapt and become much more resilient to it already, but if we go above 1.5, at the moment we are projected to get to three degrees or even 4 degrees warming, and that would be catastrophic, not only for plants and animals but for us as human beings.— plants and animals but for us as human beings. erm... i am your cheery chappie _ human beings. erm... i am your cheery chappie on _ human beings. erm... i am your cheery chappie on a _ human beings. erm... i am your cheery chappie on a happy - human beings. erm... i am your. cheery chappie on a happy monday. what is happening in china is really interesting because everyone says, what about china? but china is on course to hit its wind and solar power target five years ahead of time, it set a target of supplying a third of its power consumption through renewable sources by 2030, however it is currently expected to produce 1000 gigawatts of energy

from wind and solar by 2025, so that is reaching its 2030 goalfive from wind and solar by 2025, so that is reaching its 2030 goal five years earlier, and interestingly as i said there, as i intimated, it is very often seen as part of the problem of the biggest emitter of greenhouse gases accounting for half of the world's coal consumption but xi jinping the president pledged in 2020 to achieve peak co2 emissions before 2030, and i willjust, pardon me for going on but i willjust give you another couple of things, china's progress is due to a number of tactics, expanding its nonfossil energy services, generous subsidies, regulations to put pressure on local governments and energy companies. now i know that was a lot of reading but liz think that is really interesting and significant? yeah, and clearly it _ interesting and significant? yeah, and clearly it will _ interesting and significant? yeah, and clearly it will have _ interesting and significant? yeah, and clearly it will have a - interesting and significant? yeah, and clearly it will have a huge - and clearly it will have a huge impact, china is one of the biggest populations, one of the biggest polluters when it comes to emissions and part of this is driven by air pollution, so they have had significant problems without

pollution in cities and needed to resolve that because that has been effectively increasing mortality rates in china. but obviously it has a positive impact on addressing climate change. and i think the key message here, we have the solutions in order to make these reductions in fossil fuels, in order to make these reductions in fossilfuels, they in order to make these reductions in fossil fuels, they exist, in order to make these reductions in fossilfuels, they exist, theyjust need implementing on a wide scale, notjust across our nation but around the world as well, and particularly nations like ourselves that have contributed to greenhouse gas emissions over the last century and a half, if you think about carbon dioxide, it stays in the atmosphere for over 100 years so what we emitted in the middle of the last century is still up there in the atmosphere causing our climate to change and we have contributed a significant amount, as have other countries, so we have our part to play, as do countries like china. what have you seen, what do we do, over the weekend someone was critical about the fact that the

government are consulting on onshore wind and this plays into the perception that a lot of people having politics at the moment, significant amount of people, that they are rowing back on a number of things, keir starmer has been accused of similar, because that election is coming, and itjust, can we see beyond our noses on this one? john ellis, nationalfisheries manager at the canal and river trust. it is pretty depressing, this, isn't it? but it is a conversation we need to have again and again and again. what is happening? i and again and again. what is happening?— and again and again. what is ha henin? ., ~' ., ., and again and again. what is hanneninu? ., ~' ., happening? i can talk about what has ha-nened happening? i can talk about what has happened on — happening? i can talk about what has happened on the _ happening? i can talk about what has happened on the canal _ happening? i can talk about what has happened on the canal system - happening? i can talk about what has happened on the canal system in - happening? i can talk about what has happened on the canal system in the | happened on the canal system in the last month and we have had an unprecedented number of fish mortalities and fish in distress incidents. that has been caused by a combination of circumstances, we've certainly had hot temperatures which means that the water holds less

oxygen when the water temperature is high, the fish need more oxygen. normally they can cope, but what we had on top of that were severe thunderstorms associated with low pressure, that also takes oxygen out of the water, and then to cap it all because we had a dry spell leading up because we had a dry spell leading up to all of this, we had lots of algae growing on the water, and then when we had the thunderstorms with a lot of cold water and hailstones, that gets into the canals and it can actually kill the algae as well, and the bacteria feed on the algae and take more oxygen out of the water. so, all of those things combined have led to us having over 60 fish kill incidents on the canal network just injune, and that compares to six for the whole of last summer. so, it's pretty unprecedented what were dealing with at the moment. it

were dealing with at the moment. if you're watching this on bbc news, we're showing pictures of dead fish, and it'sjust we're showing pictures of dead fish, and it's just so depressing. you've never seen anything like this, john, never? ., ., , . . never? not on this scale. we get a small number— never? not on this scale. we get a small number of— never? not on this scale. we get a small number of incidents - never? not on this scale. we get a small number of incidents each - small number of incidents each summer, usually localised, but this was all the way from the river stored in the south—east right the way up into the wirral and south lancashire. we have had incidents all across the country, and it's been too much for us to be able to handle. �* ., _, , , handle. and of course, there is the sewa u e handle. and of course, there is the sewage as — handle. and of course, there is the sewage as well _ handle. and of course, there is the sewage as well but _ handle. and of course, there is the sewage as well but we _ handle. and of course, there is the sewage as well but we will - handle. and of course, there is the sewage as well but we will put - handle. and of course, there is the sewage as well but we will put that to one side for now. i will be with you, hugh warwick, but tony is in touch. very close to athens. hello, ton . touch. very close to athens. hello, tony- good — touch. very close to athens. hello, tony. good morning. _ touch. very close to athens. hello, tony. good morning. relatively - touch. very close to athens. hello, l tony. good morning. relatively close to athens, about one hour south. it

is pretty rural. we have week after week daytime temperatures well in excess of 30 degrees, bees and other insects are actually thriving. flying around in the local hillside, one sees colonies of beehives, bees are regularly in the garden, and all sorts of other insects. i think the difference between here and the uk, never mind the temperatures, is that the hillsides here are covered with wild herbs, there is oregano, there is thai... ., wild herbs, there is oregano, there isthai... ., , ., is thai... you can smell it. you can smell it, — is thai... you can smell it. you can smell it. most _ is thai... you can smell it. you can smell it, most definitely. - is thai... you can smell it. you can smell it, most definitely. the - is thai... you can smell it. you can| smell it, most definitely. the other thin is smell it, most definitely. the other thing is that — smell it, most definitely. the other thing is that people _ smell it, most definitely. the other thing is that people are _ smell it, most definitely. the other thing is that people are not - smell it, most definitely. the other thing is that people are not paving | thing is that people are not paving over their gardens, thing is that people are not paving overtheir gardens, in thing is that people are not paving over their gardens, in the uk more and more people have paved over their front gardens for car parking, where are the insects going? taste their front gardens for car parking, where are the insects going? we are one of the most _ where are the insects going? we are one of the most nature _ where are the insects going? we are one of the most nature depleted - one of the most nature depleted countries, and is it ourfault as well as individuals? what do you

think, tony, that is an interesting point, we don't... we kind of don't understand that by doing that, we are affecting nature, wejust understand that by doing that, we are affecting nature, we just do understand that by doing that, we are affecting nature, wejust do it? i think it is affecting nature and it is also— i think it is affecting nature and it is also encouraging localised ftooding — it is also encouraging localised flooding as well because there is nowhere — flooding as well because there is nowhere for heavy rain to run off. another— nowhere for heavy rain to run off. another thing i have noticed here is that because when it does rain in the summer, it really rains, and by a large, people don't have guttering on their houses, and we have a lot of house sparrows here because they have got ideal places to nest, there is no guttering stopping them going under the tiles. and every year there seems to be an increase in—house sparrows, the only predator they seem to have other magpies. hugh warwick, interesting points, as an ecologist, do you want to pick up on what tony is saying? it is on what tony is saying? it is fascinating _ on what tony is saying? it is fascinating to _ on what tony is saying? it is fascinating to hear - on what tony is saying? it is fascinating to hear that - on what tony is saying? it is fascinating to hear that description of an— fascinating to hear that description of an insect which landscape. the actuat— of an insect which landscape. the actual figures across industrialised agricultural landscapes of the

united — agricultural landscapes of the united kingdom and europe are actually— united kingdom and europe are actually terrifyingly in the other direction — actually terrifyingly in the other direction. we know that we have got these _ direction. we know that we have got these massive decreases in the biomass— these massive decreases in the biomass of insect life, disturbing studies _ biomass of insect life, disturbing studies from germany a few years ago chopping _ studies from germany a few years ago chopping that was something like a 75% decline over 25 years, and this is down _ 75% decline over 25 years, and this is down to— 75% decline over 25 years, and this is down to the fact that we, our farmers. — is down to the fact that we, our farmers. in— is down to the fact that we, our farmers, in an attempt to try and make— farmers, in an attempt to try and make a— farmers, in an attempt to try and make a profit, which is a reasonable thing _ make a profit, which is a reasonable thing for— make a profit, which is a reasonable thing for them to do, are trying to remove _ thing for them to do, are trying to remove competition, it isjust that the competition they are removing is also the _ the competition they are removing is also the food of hedgehogs, of bats, farmtand _ also the food of hedgehogs, of bats, farmland birds, amphibians and all of these _ farmland birds, amphibians and all of these other species, and so we need _ of these other species, and so we need to— of these other species, and so we need to start looking at, it is interesting, tony talks about we could _ interesting, tony talks about we could do— interesting, tony talks about we could do things with guttering, with not paving — could do things with guttering, with not paving over our gardens, all great _ not paving over our gardens, all great things but actually the bigger picture. _ great things but actually the bigger picture, we need some sort of political— picture, we need some sort of political coverage, at the moment i think— political coverage, at the moment i think lord — political coverage, at the moment i think lord devon was intimating when it came _ think lord devon was intimating when it came to— think lord devon was intimating when it came to climate change an absence of courage. _ it came to climate change an absence of courage, on the part of our

political— of courage, on the part of our political leaders, who basically haven't — political leaders, who basically haven't got the stomach for dealing with this _ haven't got the stomach for dealing with this problem, they are going to push it— with this problem, they are going to push it down the line, again, as they— push it down the line, again, as they have — push it down the line, again, as they have done for decades and decades— they have done for decades and decades and decades. for over 30 years— decades and decades. for over 30 years the — decades and decades. for over 30 years the scientists, people like liz bentley, have been saying this, this is— liz bentley, have been saying this, this is going to happen, it is going to be _ this is going to happen, it is going to be real, — this is going to happen, it is going to be real, it is happening, the impact — to be real, it is happening, the impact for— to be real, it is happening, the impact for humanity in terms of physical— impact for humanity in terms of physical damage from floods, from fires, _ physical damage from floods, from fires, are _ physical damage from floods, from fires, are enormous, but we tend to forget _ fires, are enormous, but we tend to forget the _ fires, are enormous, but we tend to forget the impacts that these dramatic changes in the environment have a _ dramatic changes in the environment have a our— dramatic changes in the environment have a our wildlife, and i am a spokesperson for the british hedgehog preservation society, i have my— hedgehog preservation society, i have my focus firmly on them and 'ust have my focus firmly on them and just the _ have my focus firmly on them and just the simple fact that they find it hard _ just the simple fact that they find it hard to — just the simple fact that they find it hard to find food and water now because _ it hard to find food and water now because of— it hard to find food and water now because of these hot, dry spells, it is crucial, _ because of these hot, dry spells, it is crucial, we — because of these hot, dry spells, it is crucial, we need to supplement what _ is crucial, we need to supplement what we've — is crucial, we need to supplement what we've got in our gardens to be able to— what we've got in our gardens to be able to give — what we've got in our gardens to be able to give them a chance, and so we have _ able to give them a chance, and so we have got— able to give them a chance, and so we have got these two different things. — we have got these two different things, we need political courage and we _ things, we need political courage and we need personal action. we are

wa too and we need personal action. we are way too anthropocentric, _ and we need personal action. we are way too anthropocentric, thinking - way too anthropocentric, thinking about ourselves, as you say, hedgehogs, it is their planet, too. ijust wonder hedgehogs, it is their planet, too. i just wonder what you think about, lord devon, lots of talk about lords this morning, notjust in the first hour, lord goldsmith his resignation, taking the politics out of it, the borisjohnson business, much contention about that, but he said, and he is very much committed to the environment, i have worked with him on the ivory ban and topping the wholesale slaughter of elephants in africa, so i know him a bit, and he's genuine about nature, he does care deeply about it and was doing pretty interesting stuff as environment minister, but he said, zac goldsmith, he said that rishi sunak is simply uninterested in the environment and the climate emergency. he said the tories would be punished by voters for the party tune is apathy in the face of the greatest challenge we have faced.

what is going on in the minds of people in power, do you think, they must know this, hugh warwick? it’s must know this, hugh warwick? it's really interesting because this view that the _ really interesting because this view that the economy trumps everything, and when _ that the economy trumps everything, and when you have a government run by economists, which tends to be what _ by economists, which tends to be what we — by economists, which tends to be what we have, they are set with this minuscute _ what we have, they are set with this minuscule view of the state of the world, _ minuscule view of the state of the world, and — minuscule view of the state of the world, and the economy, a healthy economy, — world, and the economy, a healthy economy, is— world, and the economy, a healthy economy, isjust one small subset of a healthy— economy, isjust one small subset of a healthy ecosystem. the economy, our health— a healthy ecosystem. the economy, our health system, education, transport, _ our health system, education, transport, all of these things depend — transport, all of these things depend on a healthy ecosystem and i think the _ depend on a healthy ecosystem and i think the work of kate ray were, who has developed this doughnut economic theory. _ has developed this doughnut economic theory. is _ has developed this doughnut economic theory, is something which our government should be spending some time looking at, actually trying to see att— time looking at, actually trying to see all of— time looking at, actually trying to see all of these things as a subset of a healthy ecosystem. doughnuts, what does it — of a healthy ecosystem. doughnuts, what does it mean? _ of a healthy ecosystem. doughnuts, what does it mean? 0k, _ of a healthy ecosystem. doughnuts, what does it mean? ok, so - of a healthy ecosystem. doughnuts, what does it mean? ok, so this - of a healthy ecosystem. doughnuts, what does it mean? ok, so this is i what does it mean? ok, so this is like a doughnut _ what does it mean? ok, so this is like a doughnut with _ what does it mean? ok, so this is like a doughnut with a _ what does it mean? ok, so this is like a doughnut with a hole - what does it mean? ok, so this is like a doughnut with a hole in - what does it mean? ok, so this is like a doughnut with a hole in the| like a doughnut with a hole in the middle _ like a doughnut with a hole in the middle and what kate ray worth has said is— middle and what kate ray worth has

said is that — middle and what kate ray worth has said is that we want to be within the ftashy. — said is that we want to be within the flashy, nice, chunky, eating bit ofthe _ the flashy, nice, chunky, eating bit of the doughnut, if you fall into the hole — of the doughnut, if you fall into the hole in the middle, so, we don't have _ the hole in the middle, so, we don't have enough— the hole in the middle, so, we don't have enough food, water, we don't have _ have enough food, water, we don't have proper— have enough food, water, we don't have proper education systems, you are not— have proper education systems, you are not meeting people's needs, so you need _ are not meeting people's needs, so you need to — are not meeting people's needs, so you need to lift them out of the middle. — you need to lift them out of the middle, but you don't want to exceed the boundaries of the doughnut, you don't _ the boundaries of the doughnut, you don't want _ the boundaries of the doughnut, you don't want into get into the areas where _ don't want into get into the areas where you — don't want into get into the areas where you will be consuming too much energy. _ where you will be consuming too much energy. too _ where you will be consuming too much energy, too much land, you're destroying _ energy, too much land, you're destroying nature and wildlife, and so her _ destroying nature and wildlife, and so her idea — destroying nature and wildlife, and so her idea is simply that we can find a _ so her idea is simply that we can find a way— so her idea is simply that we can find a way of working within, to keep— find a way of working within, to keep us— find a way of working within, to keep us within this doughnut, and she has— keep us within this doughnut, and she has been f ted internationally now for— she has been f ted internationally now for this work, it has been pipped — now for this work, it has been pipped up _ now for this work, it has been pipped up by cities around the world, — pipped up by cities around the world, it's _ pipped up by cities around the world, it'sjust a case of having some _ world, it'sjust a case of having some politicians in this country with— some politicians in this country with a — some politicians in this country with a bit— some politicians in this country with a bit of courage, and yet there are very. _ with a bit of courage, and yet there are very, very few who are willing to do— are very, very few who are willing to do that — are very, very few who are willing to do that already electoral cycle. i to do that already electoral cycle. i am _ to do that already electoral cycle. i am an— to do that already electoral cycle. i am an interested doodle, i actually— i am an interested doodle, i actually did draw a doughnut when you are _ actually did draw a doughnut when you are talking there. alex actually did draw a doughnut when you are talking there.— you are talking there. alex in newcastle. — you are talking there. alex in newcastle, phd _ you are talking there. alex in newcastle, phd climate - you are talking there. alex in - newcastle, phd climate scientist, thank you for this, billy in durham,

alex, please make a contribution, given your considerable expertise? hi, thank you very much by having me on. yes, ithink hi, thank you very much by having me on. yes, i think the guy on previously was absolutely brilliant, i think we need to reframe how we talk about the climate crisis instead of talking about net zero by 2050 which i think anybody with a window can see that 2015 is too late, we need to talk notjust about 1.5 degrees to degrees, talk about what we can do right now. this is a climate emergency. just look at what is happening in new york. we need to be talking about food security, we need to be talking about how all these events are interconnected, talking about the solutions stop for example with renewables, we can massively reduce our energy bills, we can create far more jobs, these sorts of things are missing from the global conversation, the deaths from air pollution are missing from the global conversation. though i think we as a society and people in the media need to be speaking on terms

that everybody can understand as opposed to just, we will try and reach 1.5 but maybe it will take 20 years, maybe it will take two years, who knows... as an example when bbc news reports on the fact that we are going to pass this very critical 1.5 degrees target which scientists have been saying basically is the threshold where we are going to start having major catastrophes, when bbc reports on that that by 2027 we are going to pass that, with 98% certainty, they said there was going to be more rainfall between april and september. that is ridiculous. there is going to be wildfires, there is going to be crop failure, people are going to be struggling to eat, and that creates a war, it creates tensions, why aren't we talking about this size of the climate crisis and how we can deal with it?— the climate crisis and how we can dealwith it? ~ . . , .,, ., deal with it? what about people who sa we deal with it? what about people who say we have — deal with it? what about people who say we have more _ deal with it? what about people who say we have more immediate - deal with it? what about people who| say we have more immediate issues, we can't feed ourselves, we can't keep ourselves warm, and what are you talking about? that

keep ourselves warm, and what are you talking about?— you talking about? that relates to it. but it you talking about? that relates to it- but it is — you talking about? that relates to it. but it is all— you talking about? that relates to it. but it is all about _ you talking about? that relates to it. but it is all about the _ you talking about? that relates to it. but it is all about the here - you talking about? that relates to it. but it is all about the here and| it. but it is all about the here and now for people — it. but it is all about the here and now for people isn't _ it. but it is all about the here and now for people isn't it _ it. but it is all about the here and now for people isn't it given - it. but it is all about the here and now for people isn't it given what j now for people isn't it given what has happened here over the past few years? some people will say, hang on, alex, what are you calling for, a complete and utter overhaul of our system of society, of our economics? and when people say we are doomed, they tend to turn off. 50. and when people say we are doomed, they tend to turn off.— they tend to turn off. so, you've raised some _ they tend to turn off. so, you've raised some interesting - they tend to turn off. so, you've raised some interesting points. | raised some interesting points. first of all, the here and now, the climate crisis is here and now and it relates to a lot of things. the cost of living crisis, we can cut energy bills by 60% if we switch to renewables which can be built far faster than if we use oil and gas. we still subsidise the oil and gas industry with billions of pounds every single year, despite it being the most profitable industry, instead we should be using that money to help with the cost of living crisis right now. this all relates together. in terms of

complete overhaul, we are honestly facing the extinction of the human race, and there is so much suffering thatis race, and there is so much suffering that is going to come before that, so much suffering already right now in global south countries, africa, indonesia, the caribbean, so many others. so it's ridiculous to say it is too much effort to try and... how do ou is too much effort to try and... how do you stop — is too much effort to try and... how do you stop those _ is too much effort to try and... how do you stop those countries are scything through the rain to get the wood, to get the palm oil, so they can feed themselves in this time of crisis, it's terrible? 30,000 orangutan killed over the last ten years in gruesome circumstances. how do you stop them doing that? inlrni’eilii. do you stop them doing that? well, we need to — do you stop them doing that? well, we need to be _ do you stop them doing that? well, we need to be actual _ do you stop them doing that? well, we need to be actual climate - we need to be actual climate leaders, we need to stop oil and gas, as lord debdon said, we have to sort this out first. everyone says we are a small population, blah blah blah, but ultimately we are creating 15% of the global investment in new oil and gas. so,

15% of the global investment in new oiland gas. so, let's 15% of the global investment in new oil and gas. so, let's obviously take responsibility, let's stop doing that and let's start paving the way for other people to then follow. . . , ~ . , ., follow. paving the way. and also blah blah blah, — follow. paving the way. and also blah blah blah, the _ follow. paving the way. and also blah blah blah, the famous - follow. paving the way. and also - blah blah blah, the famous words of gratitude back. this is a brilliant contribution, alex. let's have charlotte, what would you like to say, charlotte in weymouth? hi. say, charlotte in weymouth? hi, there, say, charlotte in weymouth? hi, there. yeah. _ say, charlotte in weymouth? hi, there. yeah. i— say, charlotte in weymouth? hi, there, yeah, i believe, iam not sure _ there, yeah, i believe, iam not sure but— there, yeah, i believe, iam not sure but i— there, yeah, i believe, iam not sure but i think that climate change is involved — sure but i think that climate change is involved in the national curriculum. my daughter is utterly anxious— curriculum. my daughter is utterly anxious about it, like, completely, she is— anxious about it, like, completely, she is now— anxious about it, like, completely, she is now vegetarian, she is asking of when _ she is now vegetarian, she is asking of when we — she is now vegetarian, she is asking of when we are doing this, anything about— of when we are doing this, anything about it. _ of when we are doing this, anything about it, and it's horrible because i about it, and it's horrible because ican't _ about it, and it's horrible because i can't answer her questions because the government aren't doing anything, no—one is doing anything, she is. _ anything, no—one is doing anything, she is. like. — anything, no—one is doing anything, she is, like, mummy this is happening, she is watching the news and saying. — happening, she is watching the news and saying, rainforests are being cut down. — and saying, rainforests are being cut down, et cetera, and i am learning — cut down, et cetera, and i am learning about this at school, what about _ learning about this at school, what about animals, what about this? what

is happening about it? and i can't answer— is happening about it? and i can't answer her— is happening about it? and i can't answer her questions because the government aren't doing anything. and that _ government aren't doing anything. and that is — government aren't doing anything. and that is why people argue, the narrative about those who share the planet with us, our animals, very much needs to change. absolutely. but the thing _ much needs to change. absolutely. but the thing is _ much needs to change. absolutely. but the thing is if _ much needs to change. absolutely. but the thing is if the _ much needs to change. absolutely. but the thing is if the government i but the thing is if the government is including this in a national curriculum, why aren't they invotving _ curriculum, why aren't they involving any answers to those questions? if they are being taught this at— questions? if they are being taught this at school which i believe weight. _ this at school which i believe weight, why is there nothing to answer— weight, why is there nothing to answer those questions, why other children— answer those questions, why other children coming home and saying this is happening to the environment, that is— is happening to the environment, that is happening to the environment, what is happening? as parents _ environment, what is happening? as parents we _ environment, what is happening? as parents we can't answer that question. — parents we can't answer that question. because there is no answer from the _ question. because there is no answer from the government about that. all the government are doing are teaching — the government are doing are teaching that but not actually giving — teaching that but not actually giving any solutions. so it is causing _ giving any solutions. so it is causing an element of climate anxiety — causing an element of climate anxie . . ., , , , anxiety. 0h, completely. listen, because it _ anxiety. 0h, completely. listen, because it really _ anxiety. 0h, completely. listen, because it really hits _ anxiety. 0h, completely. listen, because it really hits me, - anxiety. 0h, completely. listen, because it really hits me, this i because it really hits me, this stuff. if i was at home, i wouldn't

be listening to this! it is monday... i be listening to this! it is monday- - -_ be listening to this! it is monday... be listening to this! it is monda . ., ., ., monday... i am not going to live, ou are monday... i am not going to live, you are just _ monday... i am not going to live, you are just on — monday... i am not going to live, you are just on my _ monday... i am not going to live, you are just on my tv _ monday... i am not going to live, you are just on my tv while - monday... i am not going to live, you are just on my tv while i'm l you are just on my tv while i'm making — you are just on my tv while i'm making breakfast. somebody found me and i picked up. ifi making breakfast. somebody found me and i picked un— and i picked up. if i was on a commercial— and i picked up. if i was on a commercial channel - and i picked up. if i was on a commercial channel and - and i picked up. if i was on aj commercial channel and said and i picked up. if i was on a - commercial channel and said that, they would show me the door! but it's true. kids are learning about this and — it's true. kids are learning about this and i— it's true. kids are learning about this and i do believe climate anxiety— this and i do believe climate anxiety is something that kids are learning _ anxiety is something that kids are learning about this and... are absolutely. and there is no answer to their— absolutely. and there is no answer to their concerns. so what do we do? so what _ to their concerns. so what do we do? so what do _ to their concerns. so what do we do? so what do we do?— so what do we do? what do we say? and billy in — so what do we do? what do we say? and billy in durham _ so what do we do? what do we say? and billy in durham has— so what do we do? what do we say? and billy in durham has a _ so what do we do? what do we say? and billy in durham has a good - and billy in durham has a good point, and alex can come back it on it as well. billy, good morning. hiya, nicky. as has probably been said before, my point is that we are a small country, we could be net

zero by 2030 and it wouldn't make any difference to this climate change. we've got to get the big polluters, the huge polluters, the mass polluters, on board. it is just, we are a tiny country, we are in a housing crisis, a mortgage crisis, you know, ayaar on about alternative energy, if you stop oil and gas, your £2000 that you are going to pay a year now with the price cap, it is going to be a real bargain because you are going to be paying 10—15 brandy year for your gas and electric. these renewables don't pay for themselves, they are not cheap, i don't know how much a windmill costs but they are not cheap and they take long time to build. we've got to get america, canada, china, india, saudi arabia, all these massive countries, on board. we can set targets, we're

crippling people, it'sjust horrible what's going on. and the rest of the world just doesn't seem to care. and we are just little england. world just doesn't seem to care. and we arejust little england. little scotland, little _ we arejust little england. little scotland, little wales... - we arejust little england. little scotland, little wales... little | scotland, little wales... little isle of man country we are willing in the wind, basically.— isle of man country we are willing in the wind, basically. yeah, we've ot to et in the wind, basically. yeah, we've got to get the _ in the wind, basically. yeah, we've got to get the big _ in the wind, basically. yeah, we've got to get the big countries - in the wind, basically. yeah, we've got to get the big countries to - got to get the big countries to start willing in the same pot, you know! ., . , , , , , know! you are expressing this very well and it is _ know! you are expressing this very well and it is what _ know! you are expressing this very well and it is what a _ know! you are expressing this very well and it is what a lot _ know! you are expressing this very well and it is what a lot of - know! you are expressing this very well and it is what a lot of people | well and it is what a lot of people express. alex, what would you say? yes, thank you for coming back to me _ yes, thank you for coming back to me let _ yes, thank you for coming back to me let me — yes, thank you for coming back to me. let me tell you what would happen— me. let me tell you what would happen if— me. let me tell you what would happen if we went to net zero by 2030 _ happen if we went to net zero by 2030 our— happen if we went to net zero by 2030. our energy bills would be significantly lower, we would have clear air— significantly lower, we would have clear air to— significantly lower, we would have clear air to breathe so less people would _ clear air to breathe so less people would die — clear air to breathe so less people would die from air pollution, we would _ would die from air pollution, we would have warmer homes because they would _ would have warmer homes because they would be _ would have warmer homes because they would be insulated, so people would die tess _ would be insulated, so people would die less from the cold during the

winter. — die less from the cold during the winter. we — die less from the cold during the winter, we would have cheaper public transport. _ winter, we would have cheaper public transport, we could get around more easily. _ transport, we could get around more easily. this— transport, we could get around more easily, this is not radical stuff. even _ easily, this is not radical stuff. even if— easily, this is not radical stuff. even if there wasn't a climate crisis. — even if there wasn't a climate crisis. this— even if there wasn't a climate crisis, this is all good things to happen — crisis, this is all good things to happen. why wouldn't we want that? i a-ree happen. why wouldn't we want that? agree with happen. why wouldn't we want that? i agree with what you're saying, but where is this narnia that you're... that you're talking about, this costs money, and basically we haven't got any money, the pot is empty. haven't got any money, the pot is em- . . haven't got any money, the pot is em n _ ., , haven't got any money, the pot is emn _ ., , ., haven't got any money, the pot is em- . . , ., ., . empty. that is not true, we do. can i come empty. that is not true, we do. can i come back— empty. that is not true, we do. can i come back on _ empty. that is not true, we do. can i come back on this? _ empty. that is not true, we do. can i come back on this? i _ empty. that is not true, we do. can i come back on this? i don't - empty. that is not true, we do. can i come back on this? i don't know. i come back on this? i don't know where _ i come back on this? i don't know where you — i come back on this? i don't know where you hear that gas and electricity and blah blah blah is all going — electricity and blah blah blah is all going to be so much more expensive, at the last uk government auction. _ expensive, at the last uk government auction, offshore wind was nine times— auction, offshore wind was nine times cheaper than gas. renewables are nine _ times cheaper than gas. renewables are nine times cheaper. obviously we should _ are nine times cheaper. obviously we should be _ are nine times cheaper. obviously we should be switching to that. and as i should be switching to that. and as i say. _ should be switching to that. and as i say. we _ should be switching to that. and as i say, we spend billions upon bittions — i say, we spend billions upon billions of pounds of subsidising the oil— billions of pounds of subsidising the oil and gas industry, giving them _ the oil and gas industry, giving them tax — the oil and gas industry, giving them tax breaks, trying to get north sea oit— them tax breaks, trying to get north sea oil and _ them tax breaks, trying to get north sea oil and gas which is not going to come _ sea oil and gas which is not going to come into power for decades, we

have that _ to come into power for decades, we have that money there, we just need to reinvest— have that money there, we just need to reinvest it — have that money there, we just need to reinvest it from fossil fuels, which — to reinvest it from fossil fuels, which is — to reinvest it from fossil fuels, which is dirty and killing people right— which is dirty and killing people right now, to clean, renewable energies. _ right now, to clean, renewable energies, and to subsidise public transport — energies, and to subsidise public transport. all of these things are investment but once you create solar power. _ investment but once you create solar power. wind — investment but once you create solar power, wind power, tidal power, hydroelectric, it's very, very cheap to offer— hydroelectric, it's very, very cheap to offer it. — hydroelectric, it's very, very cheap to offer it. it — hydroelectric, it's very, very cheap to offer it, it costs money to operate _ to offer it, it costs money to operate oil and gas, it doesn't cost money— operate oil and gas, it doesn't cost money to— operate oil and gas, it doesn't cost money to continue to operate renewables, it is investment, but it will make _ renewables, it is investment, but it will make a — renewables, it is investment, but it will make a better future, invest now before it is too late, why would you wait? _ now before it is too late, why would ou wait? ~' _ now before it is too late, why would ou wait? ~ , ~ you wait? like i say i think we should be _ you wait? like i say i think we should be doing _ you wait? like i say i think we should be doing as _ you wait? like i say i think we should be doing as much - you wait? like i say i think we should be doing as much as i you wait? like i say i think we | should be doing as much as we you wait? like i say i think we - should be doing as much as we can, but my main point is we have got to get these other countries, the major polluters, on board. taste get these other countries, the ma'or polluters, on board.�* polluters, on board. we are a ma'or nolluter. polluters, on board. we are a ma'or polluter. we — polluters, on board. we are a ma'or polluter. we are i polluters, on board. we are a ma'or polluter. we are probably �* polluters, on board. we are a ma'or polluter. we are probably 20th h polluters, on board. we are a major polluter. we are probably 20th in i polluter. we are probably 20th in the world- _ polluter. we are probably 20th in the world. so _ polluter. we are probably 20th in the world. so you've _ polluter. we are probably 20th in the world. so you've got - polluter. we are probably 20th in the world. so you've got 20 - polluter. we are probably 20th in j the world. so you've got 20 other countries that are polluting a lot more. . �* , .,

countries that are polluting a lot more. . �*, ., more. that's not true. if i can come back in on — more. that's not true. if i can come back in on this, _ more. that's not true. if i can come back in on this, you _ more. that's not true. if i can come back in on this, you said _ more. that's not true. if i can come back in on this, you said the - more. that's not true. if i can come back in on this, you said the other. back in on this, you said the other bil back in on this, you said the other big countries, right? per capita, per person. _ big countries, right? per capita, per person, we pollute far more than india per person, we pollute far more than india and _ per person, we pollute far more than india and a _ per person, we pollute far more than india and a lot of these other countries _ india and a lot of these other countries that you mention. if we're talking _ countries that you mention. if we're talking about economic, right? we invest— talking about economic, right? we invest far— talking about economic, right? we invest far more money in new oil and nas invest far more money in new oil and gas than _ invest far more money in new oil and gas than a _ invest far more money in new oil and gas than a tot— invest far more money in new oil and gas than a lot of these other big countries — gas than a lot of these other big countries. stop putting the blame on these _ countries. stop putting the blame on these big _ countries. stop putting the blame on these big countries, like, us is not doing _ these big countries, like, us is not doing anything so why should i do anything? — doing anything so why should i do anything? this is a global problem that is— anything? this is a global problem that is going to affect all of us. last _ that is going to affect all of us. last summer it was 40 degrees in the uk. last summer it was 40 degrees in the uk this _ last summer it was 40 degrees in the uk. this summer who knows it might be 45. _ uk. this summer who knows it might be 45. next— uk. this summer who knows it might be 45, next summer it might be 50, every— be 45, next summer it might be 50, every single — be 45, next summer it might be 50, every single year this is going to net every single year this is going to get worse. — every single year this is going to get worse, the climate crisis is here _ get worse, the climate crisis is here now. _ get worse, the climate crisis is here now, let's stop saying, let's worry— here now, let's stop saying, let's worry about _ here now, let's stop saying, let's worry about us and what before we do anything. _ worry about us and what before we do anything, all the people worry about us and what before we do anything, allthe people in worry about us and what before we do anything, all the people in africa are waiting for us to do things, and all the _ are waiting for us to do things, and all the people in all these are the gtobat— all the people in all these are the global south countries, they are not saying. _ global south countries, they are not saying. tike. — global south countries, they are not saying, like, let's not bother investing _ saying, like, let's not bother investing in renewables because the

uk is investing in oil and gas. they are doing _ uk is investing in oil and gas. they are doing it— uk is investing in oil and gas. they are doing it anyway, why aren't we doing _ are doing it anyway, why aren't we doing it _ are doing it anyway, why aren't we doing it anyway? the are doing it anyway, why aren't we doing it anyway?— are doing it anyway, why aren't we doing it anyway? the tory mp who has been very much _ doing it anyway? the tory mp who has been very much involved _ doing it anyway? the tory mp who has been very much involved with - doing it anyway? the tory mp who has been very much involved with this - been very much involved with this with the on the quest for net zero, chris skidmore, has written an interesting article, he has been talking about it over the weekend, and he says essentially, you know, here's his last paragraph, he says, we must not let the industries of the past dictate our future by saying no to the oilfield rosebank we will be giving a clear signal that the uk in the north sea is open as a centre of climate excellent and as a centre of climate excellent and a hub for new technologies and make sure we are at the front of the pack for driving at bisham globally. there are very many tory mp5 it appears extremely critical of their own government. the uk government, this is what they will be doing, we will regroup in a moment, 08085 909

693, we will regroup in a moment. the uk was the first country in the world to create a legally binding legislator. banning new petrol and diesel cars from 2030. that could have been our phone in this morning. installing 600,000 heat pumps by 2028 to replace gas boilers, using carbon capture to remove between 20 million and 30 million tons of co2 by 2034 top half of all urban journeys walked or cycled by 2030 of stop improve energy efficiency of 2.8 million homes and improving 1.5 million to e pcc standard by 2030 and committing £1 billion of public funds to capture carbon tech by 2025. i5 funds to capture carbon tech by 2025. is it enough? some say no. what do you say and what you see and feel? get in touch and we are here until 11 o'clock.

deena campbell has the 5 live news. a fireman has died while trying to put out fires caused by vehicles being set alight during riots outside paris. more than 150 people were arrested overnight. it's the sixth night of violence, triggered by a police officer shooting dead a teenager. 45,000 police were deployed to deal with the unrest. a group of conservative backbenchers has warned the government it needs to take urgent action to cut immigration, or lose public trust. the group, called the new conservatives, wants to bring annual net migration down from around 600,000 tojust over 200,000. they'll outline their plans this afternoon. palestinian officials say at least five people have been killed and several others injured after israel launched a large—scale military operation

in the occupied west bank. israeli forces targeted a refugee camp in the city ofjenin, which it said was being used as a command centre by various militant groups. the islamist group hamas has called the attacks "barbaric aggression". as you've been hearing, last month was the hottestjune recorded in the uk since 1940. it's not unusual for temperatures to be high injune but environmental groups say this year's consistently hot temperatures had a detrimental impact on our rivers and canals, contributing to thousands of fish deaths. the met office will later confirm if the high temperatures were linked to climate change. and time for your sport withjohn bennett. australia coach andrew mcdonald says that 22—year—old spinner todd murphy is well placed to step in for nathan lyon. it was confirmed this morning that lyon will miss the rest of the ashes series against england due to a calf injury. australia lead the series 2—0 with three matches to play. as you were been hearing in the first hour of nicky's show,

the controversialjonny bairstow dismissal is still the major talking point. australia captain pat cummins said he thought the bairstow incident was "fair play". novak djokovic will get the action on centre court way on the opening day of wimbledon later. he's up against pedro cachin from argentina. last year's finalist nick kyrgios has withdrawn from the tournament with a wrist injury. coverage on 5 live gets underway at 12:30. tottenham are set to make israel international winger manor solomon their fourth signing of the summer. he was on loan at fulham last season where he scored five times in 24 games and marco silva had been keen to keep him at craven cottage this season.

more on your climate calls, more of your climate calls, 08085 909 693 and text on 85058. we have got coming up for and text on 85058. we have got coming upforyour and text on 85058. we have got coming up for your enlightenment, a water policy manager at the wildlife trust. good morning. sarah in doncaster, michael in plymouth and beverley near chichester. some excellent calls this morning but some breaking news as well. a statement from the cabinet office minister and paymaster generaljeremy quinn this morning about sue gray and the former civil servant's

newjob with the labour party. it says she broke the civil service code. lone wells is our political correspondent. hello. no, it's not lone wells. who is there? it is lone wells, are you there? ione wells. who is there? it is lone wells, are you there?— lone wells. who is there? it is lone wells, are you there? yes, i'm here. wells, are you there? yes, i'm here. we have got — wells, are you there? yes, i'm here. we have got you. — wells, are you there? yes, i'm here. we have got you, sorry. _ wells, are you there? yes, i'm here. we have got you, sorry. the - we have got you, sorry. the statement — we have got you, sorry. the statement has _ we have got you, sorry. the statement has just - we have got you, sorry. tie: statement has just come we have got you, sorry. tte: statement hasjust come out we have got you, sorry. tt9 statement hasjust come out and it statement has just come out and it confirms basically what we knew on friday, that the cabinet office are saying that sue gray broke the civil service code, basically what happened was she was the top civil servant who had been investigating downing street parties during covid and published that report into downing street parties in may last year. in october last year she got a phone call from keir starmer offering her a job to be his chief offering her a job to be his chief of staff. she said she would consider it if she ever resigned from the civil service, which she later went on to do. it is now

confirmed she will be taking up that position later this year. that caused quite a lot of controversy at the time with some conservatives when this news came out were very unhappy saying it undermined her impartiality. the committee looking into this say they had no evidence that the approach she had from keir starmer could have undermined her impartiality or affected her ability to be impartial but we have seen the cabinet office ministerjeremy quin saying today that essentially the cabinet office feels it was a breach of the code for not declaring the phone call she had with keir starmer. . : . starmer. he talks much about the necessary ethics _ starmer. he talks much about the necessary ethics of _ starmer. he talks much about the necessary ethics of the _ starmer. he talks much about the necessary ethics of the code. - starmer. he talks much about the necessary ethics of the code. i'ml necessary ethics of the code. i'm just looking at the report and sue gray was given the opportunity to make representations but chose not to do so. the civil service code was found to be broken as a result of the undeclared contact between sue

gray and the leader of the opposition. what happens now? t opposition. what happens now? i don't think it will change very opposition. what happens now? t don't think it will change very much because both sue gray and labour were pretty clear they wanted to follow the official process, the advice on the parliamentary committee on appointments. they released their findings last week and found she was cleared to work for the labour party from september. she is still on course to be keir starmer�*s chief of staff from september. but i think today conservatives will be hoping to use this to land a blow on the labour leader's new chief of staff before she has even started the role. it is she has even started the role. it is not a good — she has even started the role. it is not a good look, _ she has even started the role. it is not a good look, is _ she has even started the role. it is not a good look, is it? it _ she has even started the role. it is not a good look, is it? it dependsl not a good look, is it? it depends on what side _ not a good look, is it? it depends on what side of _ not a good look, is it? it depends on what side of the _ not a good look, is it? it depends on what side of the argument - not a good look, is it? it depends on what side of the argument you call on. labourand sue on what side of the argument you call on. labour and sue gray feel like they have followed the rules because they say that they didn't

any conversation should have been declared and someone of the seniority of keir starmer approaching her, she should have declared that to some colleagues at the cabinet office at the time. i think this will be an issue that divides them both, both say they are right stop as i say, the official committee looking into this did say they didn't find any evidence or receive any evidence that her impartiality was compromised but as you say, there are people in the cabinet office and certainly in the government as well who are unhappy about the appointment. thank government as well who are unhappy about the appointment.— about the appointment. thank you, lone wells. — about the appointment. thank you, ione wells, political— about the appointment. thank you, | lone wells, political correspondent. from the here and now of politics to the what the hell is going to happen to our future? the water policy manager at the wildlife trust, i will come too soon, but first we can go to beverley near chichester. good morning.

go to beverley near chichester. good morninu. go to beverley near chichester. good morninu _ ,., :, :, go to beverley near chichester. good morning-_ what - go to beverley near chichester. good morning._ what about| morning. good morning. what about all this, morning. good morning. what about all this. it's — morning. good morning. what about all this, it's terrible, _ morning. good morning. what about all this, it's terrible, awful. - all this, it's terrible, awful. absolutely was that we are not a wealthy — absolutely was that we are not a wealthy family and we are doing our utmost— wealthy family and we are doing our utmost to _ wealthy family and we are doing our utmost to do what we can for the environment. we have water harvesting, when we have a bit of money— harvesting, when we have a bit of money we — harvesting, when we have a bit of money we will do a bit extra. this autumn— money we will do a bit extra. this autumn we — money we will do a bit extra. this autumn we will be re—cladding the front— autumn we will be re—cladding the front of— autumn we will be re—cladding the front of the house and back of the house _ front of the house and back of the house and — front of the house and back of the house. and also we have a wild patch where _ house. and also we have a wild patch where we _ house. and also we have a wild patch where we have three baby hedgehogs. three baby— where we have three baby hedgehogs. three baby hedgehogs. a where we have three baby hedgehogs. three baby hedgehogs.— three baby hedgehogs. a nest of three baby hedgehogs. _ three baby hedgehogs. a nest of three baby hedgehogs. where i three baby hedgehogs. a nest of three baby hedgehogs. where is| three baby hedgehogs. a nest of - three baby hedgehogs. where is their mother? she — three baby hedgehogs. where is their mother? she wonders _ three baby hedgehogs. where is their mother? she wonders about - three baby hedgehogs. where is their mother? she wonders about still. - three baby hedgehogs. where is their| mother? she wonders about still. one of my neighbours _ mother? she wonders about still. one of my neighbours saw _ mother? she wonders about still. one of my neighbours saw her _ mother? she wonders about still. one of my neighbours saw her in _ mother? she wonders about still. one of my neighbours saw her in their- of my neighbours saw her in their garden— of my neighbours saw her in their gardena— of my neighbours saw her in their garden a couple of days ago so she obviously— garden a couple of days ago so she obviously goes off foraging for food — obviously goes off foraging for food. we have holes in the fences. but one _ food. we have holes in the fences. but one of— food. we have holes in the fences. but one of the houses who recently moved _ but one of the houses who recently moved in _ but one of the houses who recently

moved in last summer, they literally whipped _ moved in last summer, they literally whipped out all of the mature hedges and replaced all the grass with plastic — and replaced all the grass with plastic. absolutely horrendous. it's 'ust plastic. absolutely horrendous. it's just laziness, they don't want to took— just laziness, they don't want to took after— just laziness, they don't want to look after the garden. but just laziness, they don't want to look after the garden.— just laziness, they don't want to look after the garden. but you are doing what _ look after the garden. but you are doing what you — look after the garden. but you are doing what you can, _ look after the garden. but you are doing what you can, and - look after the garden. but you are doing what you can, and you - look after the garden. but you are doing what you can, and you are l doing what you can, and you are benefiting from thatjoy. absolutely. our wild patch is 20 feet 101 — absolutely. our wild patch is 20 feet 10'. quite small, really. but ou look feet 10'. quite small, really. but you look out _ feet 10'. quite small, really. bit you look out every morning and you have a nest of baby hedgehogs and you are doing your thing. this is a very important point and we will throw it to the water policy manager at the wildlife trust. do you think we know enough of what we need to do and do we know enough about it or are we not doing enough? t and do we know enough about it or are we not doing enough?- and do we know enough about it or are we not doing enough? i think we nrobabl are we not doing enough? i think we probably do — are we not doing enough? i think we probably do know — are we not doing enough? i think we probably do know what _ are we not doing enough? i think we probably do know what we _ are we not doing enough? i think we probably do know what we need - are we not doing enough? i think we probably do know what we need to l are we not doing enough? i think we i probably do know what we need to do. i think it is a case of... d0 probably do know what we need to do.

i think it is a case of. . ._ i think it is a case of... do we? the people _ i think it is a case of... do we? the people who _ i think it is a case of... do we? the people who ripped - i think it is a case of... do we? the people who ripped it - i think it is a case of... do we? the people who ripped it up i i think it is a case of... do we? | the people who ripped it up and i think it is a case of... do we? i the people who ripped it up and put down plastic, do you think those people understood that it wasn't a great thing to do for the environment? that's what i'm saying. i see what you mean. in terms of the wider public having a fuller understanding of the nature and climate crises, that's probably not there for there is stilljob to do in terms of continuing to communicate these wider messages. we hear it more about the environment on the news and greasy programmes on the television like our wild aisles. there is information out there but there is more we can do because the kind of actions we want to see people taking does need that bit of support for people to understand what they could be doing extra to help wildlife and climate. itbihnzut what they could be doing extra to help wildlife and climate. what can ou do if help wildlife and climate. what can you do if you _ help wildlife and climate. what can you do if you are — help wildlife and climate. what can you do if you are living _ help wildlife and climate. what can you do if you are living in _ help wildlife and climate. what can you do if you are living in a - help wildlife and climate. what can you do if you are living in a normal| you do if you are living in a normal house, a semi in an average part of

britain, middle britain? if you are listening right now to the radio, listening right now to the radio, listening to beverley and her tales of hedges being ripped up. what can and should people be doing? the kind of thins and should people be doing? the kind of things beverley _ and should people be doing? the kind of things beverley was _ and should people be doing? the kind of things beverley was talking - and should people be doing? the kind of things beverley was talking about l of things beverley was talking about are absolutely perfect. what you can do in your own garden can make a huge difference for nature. if you think about the collective area that gardens occupy across the country, each person's patch is quite small but when you add it all together it is a vast area. the kinds of things you can do in your garden to help wildlife include not using pesticides, make sure we not putting poisons out into the environment unnecessarily. creating a space for water, whether is something tiny like a bowl of water for hedgehogs and visiting insects, or a bigger thing like a pond to provide for dragonflies and amphibians. you can grow your grass a bit longer, even

if you don't want to do it across the whole loan, you can leave wild patches and you will find those longer areas of grass will allow plants to flower and grasses can go to seed and grasses can survive dry weather better. you often see longer grass stay greener for longer than the areas you are mowing. it provides fantastic habitats for insects. and providing a variety for different micro—habitats in your garden. some areas of grass, may be a small patch of bramble or nettles. a lot of people might not welcome those things in their garden but a small corner where it is not detracting from the enjoyment of your garden but doing something for nature. if you have a variety of different kinds of plants and features in your garden, providing variety for all different types of

wildlife from the tiniest insects up to hedgehogs and birds that use the gardens and so on. t to hedgehogs and birds that use the gardens and so on.— gardens and so on. i have noticed that where _ gardens and so on. i have noticed that where i— gardens and so on. i have noticed that where i live _ gardens and so on. i have noticed that where i live in _ gardens and so on. i have noticed that where i live in south - gardens and so on. i have noticed that where i live in south london | gardens and so on. i have noticed i that where i live in south london on clapham common and wandsworth common where i walk the dogs, there are large patches of the comments that are not being mowed and have turned into wild areas with wildflowers. it drives me mad when i see people picking them, but it is good, and there seems to be some awareness of there seems to be some awareness of the need to do that and it makes for a great variety on the common as well. it makes them a more lovely place. tt well. it makes them a more lovely lace. :, , , . , place. it does, it can be really beautiful _ place. it does, it can be really beautiful to _ place. it does, it can be really beautiful to see _ place. it does, it can be really beautiful to see the _ place. it does, it can be really beautiful to see the wild i place. it does, it can be really. beautiful to see the wild flowers, beautiful to see the wildflowers, they will get a chance to flower and set seed and grow again next year. the variety of plants in those mixtures, there were things that will do well in those areas and species that do better in shorter

turf, so having a shorter section is good as well to have a variety of species and habitats. they are not only great for nature but really attractive for us to look at, spend time in and enjoy seeing the wildlife using them. time in and enjoy seeing the wildlife usin them. �* , . ,, wildlife using them. beverley, thank ou for wildlife using them. beverley, thank you for your — wildlife using them. beverley, thank you for your beautiful _ wildlife using them. beverley, thank you for your beautiful tales. - wildlife using them. beverley, thank you for your beautiful tales. can i i you for your beautiful tales. can i 'ust sa you for your beautiful tales. can i just say something _ you for your beautiful tales. can i just say something else - you for your beautiful tales. can i just say something else while i'm here _ just say something else while i'm here at— just say something else while i'm here. : :, , just say something else while i'm here. : :, . we just say something else while i'm here._ we have - just say something else while i'm here._ we have a i just say something else while i'm here._ we have a 1200| here. of course. we have a 1200 litre water _ here. of course. we have a 1200 litre water tank _ here. of course. we have a 1200 litre water tank which _ here. of course. we have a 1200 litre water tank which gets i here. of course. we have a 1200 litre water tank which gets all i here. of course. we have a 1200| litre water tank which gets all the water— litre water tank which gets all the water off— litre water tank which gets all the water off the roof and the next—door neighbour's — water off the roof and the next—door neighbour's roof. we are flushing our toitets — neighbour's roof. we are flushing our toilets with it. all it takes to fill it— our toilets with it. all it takes to fill it up. — our toilets with it. all it takes to fill it up. it— our toilets with it. all it takes to fill it up, it was quite low a couple _ fill it up, it was quite low a couple of— fill it up, it was quite low a couple of weeks ago because it has been _ couple of weeks ago because it has been so _ couple of weeks ago because it has been so dry, itjust took couple of weeks ago because it has been so dry, it just took one couple of weeks ago because it has been so dry, itjust took one deluge of water— been so dry, itjust took one deluge of water to— been so dry, itjust took one deluge of water to fill it up again and it fills up— of water to fill it up again and it fills up so— of water to fill it up again and it fills up so quickly. if everybody did that. — fills up so quickly. if everybody did that, you know, it would be reatiy— did that, you know, it would be really helpful. wright yeah, there needs— really helpful. wright yeah, there needs to — really helpful. wright yeah, there needs to be a better gauge- needs to be a better gauge yeah, there needs _ needs to be a better gauge yeah, there needs to _ needs to be a better gauge yeah, there needs to be _ needs to be a better gauge yeah,

there needs to be a _ needs to be a better gauge yeah, there needs to be a bit _ needs to be a better gauge yeah, there needs to be a bit of- there needs to be a bit of education.— there needs to be a bit of education. . . : :, :, education. regatta reduction from the water company _ education. regatta reduction from the water company on _ education. regatta reduction from the water company on our - education. regatta reduction from the water company on our bill i education. regatta reduction from the water company on our bill as l the water company on our bill as wett _ the water company on our bill as wett -- — the water company on our bill as wett -- we _ the water company on our bill as well. —— we get a. the water company on our bill as well. -- we get a.— well. -- we get a. sara, good morning- _ well. -- we get a. sara, good morning. good _ well. -- we get a. sara, good morning. good morning, i well. -- we get a. sara, good morning. good morning, howj well. -- we get a. sara, good i morning. good morning, how are well. -- we get a. sara, good - morning. good morning, how are you? alex is still with _ morning. good morning, how are you? alex is still with us, _ morning. good morning, how are you? alex is still with us, a _ morning. good morning, how are you? alex is still with us, a phd— morning. good morning, how are you? alex is still with us, a phd climate i alex is still with us, a phd climate scientist at newcastle. sarah, what would you like to say this morning on this massive issue? six. would you like to say this morning on this massive issue?— on this massive issue? six words. desalination _ on this massive issue? six words. desalination plants, _ on this massive issue? six words. desalination plants, we _ on this massive issue? six words. desalination plants, we need i on this massive issue? six words. | desalination plants, we need them now _ desalination plants, we need them now. . �* , :, . , desalination plants, we need them now. :, . , :, , desalination plants, we need them now. :, ., :, ,, now. that's more than six words, but i will let now. that's more than six words, but i will let you — now. that's more than six words, but i will let you off. _ now. that's more than six words, but i will let you off. no, _ now. that's more than six words, but i will let you off. no, it— now. that's more than six words, but i will let you off. no, it is— now. that's more than six words, but i will let you off. no, it is a _ now. that's more than six words, but i will let you off. no, it is a six! i i will let you off. no, it is a six! let's not get stuck on that. there are more important things to get stuck on. desalination plants, tell me more. :, . ~ stuck on. desalination plants, tell me more. :, .~ . stuck on. desalination plants, tell memore. :, . me more. you take salt water, sea water, me more. you take salt water, sea water. you — me more. you take salt water, sea

water, you remove _ me more. you take salt water, sea water, you remove the _ me more. you take salt water, sea water, you remove the salt - me more. you take salt water, sea water, you remove the salt and i me more. you take salt water, sea water, you remove the salt and it. water, you remove the salt and it turns— water, you remove the salt and it turns it _ water, you remove the salt and it turns it into — water, you remove the salt and it turns it into freshwater. - water, you remove the salt and it turns it into freshwater. i- water, you remove the salt and it turns it into freshwater. i do i turns it into freshwater. i do understand. _ turns it into freshwater. i do understand, it _ turns it into freshwater. i do understand, it takes - turns it into freshwater. i do| understand, it takes energy. turns it into freshwater. i do i understand, it takes energy. i turns it into freshwater. i do - understand, it takes energy. i have been _ understand, it takes energy. i have been listening _ understand, it takes energy. i have been listening for— understand, it takes energy. i have been listening for quite _ understand, it takes energy. i have been listening for quite a _ understand, it takes energy. i have been listening for quite a while i been listening for quite a while today— been listening for quite a while today and _ been listening for quite a while today and there _ been listening for quite a while today and there was _ been listening for quite a while today and there was another i been listening for quite a while i today and there was another chap been listening for quite a while - today and there was another chap who was having _ today and there was another chap who was having a _ today and there was another chap who was having a debate _ today and there was another chap who was having a debate with _ today and there was another chap who was having a debate with alex, - today and there was another chap who was having a debate with alex, i- was having a debate with alex, i believe — was having a debate with alex, i believe they— was having a debate with alex, i believe. they were _ was having a debate with alex, i believe. they were basically- believe. they were basically discussing _ believe. they were basically discussing renewable - believe. they were basically| discussing renewable energy believe. they were basically- discussing renewable energy and one was saying _ discussing renewable energy and one was saying how — discussing renewable energy and one was saying how we _ discussing renewable energy and one was saying how we need _ discussing renewable energy and one was saying how we need to _ discussing renewable energy and one was saying how we need to build i discussing renewable energy and one| was saying how we need to build with more _ was saying how we need to build with more renewables. _ was saying how we need to build with more renewables. i— was saying how we need to build with more renewables. i completely- was saying how we need to build with more renewables. i completely agree because _ more renewables. i completely agree because you — more renewables. i completely agree because you build _ more renewables. i completely agree because you build and _ more renewables. i completely agree because you build and loop _ more renewables. i completely agree because you build and loop more i because you build and loop more renewabte — because you build and loop more renewable sources _ because you build and loop more renewable sources of— because you build and loop more renewable sources of electric i because you build and loop more| renewable sources of electric like tidat. _ renewable sources of electric like tidat. in _ renewable sources of electric like tidal, in which— renewable sources of electric like tidal, in which case _ renewable sources of electric like tidal, in which case you _ renewable sources of electric like tidal, in which case you can - renewable sources of electric like tidal, in which case you can have| tidal, in which case you can have desatination _ tidal, in which case you can have desalination plants, _ tidal, in which case you can have desalination plants, in— tidal, in which case you can have desalination plants, in which i tidal, in which case you can havel desalination plants, in which case they can — desalination plants, in which case they can fill — desalination plants, in which case they can fill reservoirs _ desalination plants, in which case they can fill reservoirs down - desalination plants, in which case| they can fill reservoirs down south because _ they can fill reservoirs down south because they _ they can fill reservoirs down south because they are _ they can fill reservoirs down south because they are very _ they can fill reservoirs down south because they are very low. - they can fill reservoirs down south because they are very low. i- they can fill reservoirs down southl because they are very low. i mean, 0k, because they are very low. i mean, 0k. they— because they are very low. i mean, 0k. they might— because they are very low. i mean, 0k, they might still— because they are very low. i mean, 0k, they might still need _ because they are very low. i mean, 0k, they might still need a - because they are very low. i mean, i 0k, they might still need a hosepipe ban, 0k, they might still need a hosepipe ban. but _ 0k, they might still need a hosepipe ban. but at _ 0k, they might still need a hosepipe ban, but at least _ 0k, they might still need a hosepipe ban, but at least you'll _ 0k, they might still need a hosepipe ban, but at least you'll be _ 0k, they might still need a hosepipe ban, but at least you'll be saying i ban, but at least you'll be saying to people. — ban, but at least you'll be saying

to people. you _ ban, but at least you'll be saying to people, you must— ban, but at least you'll be saying to people, you must not- ban, but at least you'll be saying to people, you must not use i ban, but at least you'll be saying to people, you must not use anyj to people, you must not use any extra — to people, you must not use any extra water— to people, you must not use any extra water at— to people, you must not use any extra water at all— to people, you must not use any extra water at all because - to people, you must not use any extra water at all because it i to people, you must not use any extra water at all because it is i extra water at all because it is difficult — extra water at all because it is difficult. it's— extra water at all because it is difficult. it's a _ extra water at all because it is difficult. it's a very _ extra water at all because it is difficult. it's a very difficult i difficult. it's a very difficult situation _ difficult. it's a very difficult situation if— difficult. it's a very difficult situation if the _ difficult. it's a very difficult situation if the are - difficult. it's a very difficult situation if the are very i difficult. it's a very difficult| situation if the are very low because _ situation if the are very low because you _ situation if the are very low because you are _ situation if the are very low because you are pumping i situation if the are very lowj because you are pumping it situation if the are very low - because you are pumping it from another— because you are pumping it from another reservoir— because you are pumping it from another reservoir that— because you are pumping it from another reservoir that has - because you are pumping it from another reservoir that has got i because you are pumping it from i another reservoir that has got water but then— another reservoir that has got water but then you — another reservoir that has got water but then you don't _ another reservoir that has got water but then you don't get _ another reservoir that has got water but then you don't get any - another reservoir that has got water but then you don't get any rainfalli but then you don't get any rainfall for a _ but then you don't get any rainfall for a couple — but then you don't get any rainfall for a couple of— but then you don't get any rainfall for a couple of months _ but then you don't get any rainfall for a couple of months and - but then you don't get any rainfall for a couple of months and that i but then you don't get any rainfall. for a couple of months and that will net fora couple of months and that will get tower— for a couple of months and that will get tower so— for a couple of months and that will get tower so they _ for a couple of months and that will get lower so they have _ for a couple of months and that will get lower so they have to _ for a couple of months and that will get lower so they have to pump i for a couple of months and that will get lower so they have to pump it l get lower so they have to pump it from _ get lower so they have to pump it from another _ get lower so they have to pump it from another one. _ get lower so they have to pump it from another one. it _ get lower so they have to pump it from another one. it is _ get lower so they have to pump it from another one. it is a - get lower so they have to pump it from another one. it is a train i get lower so they have to pump it| from another one. it is a train and it keeps— from another one. it is a train and it keeps snowballing. _ from another one. it is a train and it keeps snowballing. it _ from another one. it is a train and it keeps snowballing. it is - it keeps snowballing. it is massivety _ it keeps snowballing. it is massively energy - it keeps snowballing. it is i massively energy inefficient, pumping _ massively energy inefficient, pumping from _ massively energy inefficient, pumping from one _ massively energy inefficient, pumping from one reservoiri massively energy inefficient, i pumping from one reservoir to another~ — pumping from one reservoir to another~ at _ pumping from one reservoir to another. at the _ pumping from one reservoir to another. at the end _ pumping from one reservoir to another. at the end of- pumping from one reservoir to another. at the end of the i pumping from one reservoir to another. at the end of the day| pumping from one reservoir to i another. at the end of the day the population— another. at the end of the day the population stilt— another. at the end of the day the population still needs _ another. at the end of the day the population still needs water. - population still needs water. desalination _ population still needs water. desalination plants- population still needs water. desalination plants are - population still needs water. i desalination plants are absolutely vital in other parts of the world. we need them now. six words. spot on. alex, can you respond to this point from west bromwich.

all i want to say is basically we are moving too fast... sorry, we are not moving — are moving too fast... sorry, we are not moving too fast. what they are trying _ not moving too fast. what they are trying to _ not moving too fast. what they are trying to achieve, it is taking us 150 years— trying to achieve, it is taking us 150 years to get here. and all of a sudden. _ 150 years to get here. and all of a sudden. in — 150 years to get here. and all of a sudden, in 15 years they really think— sudden, in 15 years they really think that _ sudden, in 15 years they really think that everything in the garden will be _ think that everything in the garden will be rosie. it is like yourjust stop— will be rosie. it is like yourjust stop 0it— will be rosie. it is like yourjust stop oil people, where do they think the plastic— stop oil people, where do they think the plastic comes from that they use on their— the plastic comes from that they use on their phones when they are phoning — on their phones when they are phoning each other to go somewhere? i am phoning each other to go somewhere? i am a _ phoning each other to go somewhere? i am a gas _ phoning each other to go somewhere? i am a gas engineer and a plumber.

we've— i am a gas engineer and a plumber. we've had— i am a gas engineer and a plumber. we've had too little investment. someone — we've had too little investment. someone has sat there and gone, oh, yeah. _ someone has sat there and gone, oh, yeah. this _ someone has sat there and gone, oh, yeah. this is _ someone has sat there and gone, oh, yeah. this is a — someone has sat there and gone, oh, yeah, this is a great sound bite, we will put _ yeah, this is a great sound bite, we will put it— yeah, this is a great sound bite, we will put it into law, therefore we now have — will put it into law, therefore we now have to do it. the steel for the windmitts. — now have to do it. the steel for the windmills, they have to be smelted. coke needs— windmills, they have to be smelted. coke needs to be involved. all i'm saying. _ coke needs to be involved. all i'm saying. yes. — coke needs to be involved. all i'm saying, yes, we have to do something. but there are millions of houses. _ something. but there are millions of houses. we — something. but there are millions of houses, we have a massive gas infrastructure, and anybody who thinks _ infrastructure, and anybody who thinks that you can just pay £5,000 for a reverse fridge, which is what the air— for a reverse fridge, which is what the air source heat pump is, it is a backwards — the air source heat pump is, it is a backwards fridge, they are delusional. itjust can't be done. i

have _ delusional. itjust can't be done. i have been— delusional. itjust can't be done. i have been doing what i have been doing _ have been doing what i have been doing for— have been doing what i have been doing for 40 years. do they really think— doing for 40 years. do they really think att— doing for 40 years. do they really think all these new green jobs, doing for 40 years. do they really think all these new greenjobs, and i'm think all these new greenjobs, and i'm not— think all these new greenjobs, and i'm not knocking any of it because i think— i'm not knocking any of it because i think it _ i'm not knocking any of it because i think it is _ i'm not knocking any of it because i think it is right, but anybody who thinks _ think it is right, but anybody who thinks that's going to happen in the next five _ thinks that's going to happen in the next five years, six years, really does _ next five years, six years, really does not — next five years, six years, really does not know anything about industry _ does not know anything about indust . : . :, does not know anything about indust .: . :, . does not know anything about i industry-_ to industry. alex, what to that? to talk about _ industry. alex, what to that? to talk about desalination - industry. alex, what to that? to talk about desalination first... i industry. alex, what to that? to i talk about desalination first... can we refer to — talk about desalination first... can we refer to that _ talk about desalination first... can we refer to that point first, he has crystallised a strand of opinion. desalination is a good thing, by the way. desalination is a good thing, by the wa . �* , . . , ., desalination is a good thing, by the wa. , . :,. way. but putting that aside for a second. way. but putting that aside for a second- you _ way. but putting that aside for a second. you make _ way. but putting that aside for a second. you make some - way. but putting that aside for a second. you make some good i way. but putting that aside for a i second. you make some good points. obviously transitioning _

second. you make some good points. obviously transitioning in _ second. you make some good points. obviously transitioning in the - second. you make some good points. obviously transitioning in the next - obviously transitioning in the next year or two is not going to work, but we have enough oil and gas in reserve for the next seven years, which is enough time to transition. the intergovernmental panel on climate change report... we the intergovernmental panel on climate change report... if climate change report... no way. if ou let climate change report... no way. if you let me — climate change report... no way. if you let me finish, _ climate change report... no way. if you let me finish, it's _ climate change report... no way. if you let me finish, it's made - climate change report... no way. if you let me finish, it's made up - climate change report... no way. if you let me finish, it's made up of l you let me finish, it's made up of tens of thousands of scientists, signed up by many countries that line—up climate change solutions. demand for food will increase by 60% over the next 30 years while food production will go down by half. that means every single person is going to have less than half the amount of food they do right now on average. less than half. i don't know about you but i don't want to eat half as much food i am currently eating, when people are struggling food it creates wars and tension. we shouldn't be saying it's a matter of a few jobs, shouldn't be saying it's a matter of a fewjobs, this is a matter of life or death.

a few jobs, this is a matter of life or death. , ., a few jobs, this is a matter of life or death. ,., , ., a few jobs, this is a matter of life or death. , ., , .,, or death. one point is that people don't know _ or death. one point is that people don't know where _ or death. one point is that people don't know where plastic - or death. one point is that people don't know where plastic comes . or death. one point is that people - don't know where plastic comes from. yeah, yeah. it comes from hydrocarbons. it's oil. so when everybody _ hydrocarbons. it's oil. so when everybody is on their iphone or ipad or this, _ everybody is on their iphone or ipad or this, that— everybody is on their iphone or ipad or this, that and the other, screaming stop drilling this stuff, fair enough, screaming stop drilling this stuff, fairenough, i screaming stop drilling this stuff, fair enough, i sort of understand, but at _ fair enough, i sort of understand, but at the — fair enough, i sort of understand, but at the same time i'm thinking to myself, _ but at the same time i'm thinking to myself, well, what are you going to do, myself, well, what are you going to do. tight— myself, well, what are you going to do, tight onward?!— do, tight onward?! alex, the hypocrisy _ do, tight onward?! alex, the hypocrisy point. _ do, tight onward?! alex, the hypocrisy point. the - do, tight onward?! alex, the| hypocrisy point. the hypocrisy do, tight onward?! alex, the - hypocrisy point. the hypocrisy point aaain. i hypocrisy point. the hypocrisy point again- i see — hypocrisy point. the hypocrisy point again. i see what _ hypocrisy point. the hypocrisy point again. i see what you're _ hypocrisy point. the hypocrisy point again. i see what you're saying, - hypocrisy point. the hypocrisy point again. i see what you're saying, but it doesn't have to be that we solve every single detail right now the stop we are in an emergency. the oint i stop we are in an emergency. the point i am — stop we are in an emergency. the point i am making... can - stop we are in an emergency. the point i am making... can i- stop we are in an emergency. the point i am making... can i finish? i point i am making... can i finish? alex can respond. _ point i am making... can i finish? alex can respond. we _

point i am making... can i finish? alex can respond. we need - point i am making... can i finish? alex can respond. we need to - point i am making... can i finish? alex can respond. we need to be| alex can respond. we need to be actin: alex can respond. we need to be acting like _ alex can respond. we need to be acting like we — alex can respond. we need to be acting like we are _ alex can respond. we need to be acting like we are in _ alex can respond. we need to be acting like we are in an _ alex can respond. we need to be i acting like we are in an emergency. as a society we are in an amazing thing in an emergency. when we went to the moon we created so many (bleep) inventions... sorry for swearing. i (bleep) inventions... sorry for swearinu. . (bleep) inventions... sorry for swearing-— swearing. i am sorry about the bad language if you _ swearing. i am sorry about the bad language if you were _ swearing. i am sorry about the bad language if you were offended. - swearing. i am sorry about the bad. language if you were offended. alex apologised there as well. occasionally impassioned debates, it creeps in and if you were offended, i'm sorry it happened. alex, carry on and keep it clean, appropriate phrase to use when we talk about this. mi; phrase to use when we talk about this. g ., ., , ., this. my apologies. if we look at other kinds _ this. my apologies. if we look at other kinds of— this. my apologies. if we look at other kinds of emergencies, - this. my apologies. if we look at - other kinds of emergencies, looking at world war ii for example, the allies didn't say, it is too expensive to fight nazi germany, we haven't got the radar technology yet, we haven't got the tanks in order. they went on and built the bloody tanks and continued. lawrence in andover- -- —

bloody tanks and continued. lawrence in andover. .. with _ bloody tanks and continued. lawrence in andover. .. with coal— bloody tanks and continued. lawrence in andover. .. with coal and _ bloody tanks and continued. lawrence in andover. .. with coal and gas - bloody tanks and continued. lawrence in andover. .. with coal and gas and i in andover. .. with coal and gas and oil. i in andover. .. with coal and gas and oil- i have — in andover. .. with coal and gas and oil. i have thoroughly _ in andover. .. with coal and gas and oil. i have thoroughly enjoyed - in andover. .. with coal and gas and oil. i have thoroughly enjoyed both| oil. i have thoroughly en'oyed both of ou. oil. i have thoroughly en'oyed both of you. let-st oil. i have thoroughly en'oyed both of you. let-s go * oil. i have thoroughly en'oyed both of you. let's go to h oil. i have thoroughly enjoyed both of you. let's go to lawrence - oil. i have thoroughly enjoyed both of you. let's go to lawrence in - of you. let's go to lawrence in andover. what do you want to say? i have got to go but i would just like to say. _ have got to go but i would just like to say. i— have got to go but i would just like to say. i would _ have got to go but i would just like to say, i would definitely— have got to go but i would just like to say, i would definitely have - have got to go but i would just like to say, i would definitely have a i to say, i would definitely have a hromahce _ to say, i would definitely have a bromance-_ to say, i would definitely have a bromance. ~ ., ., ., ., bromance. when a man has to go, he has to no. bromance. when a man has to go, he has to go. lawrence, _ bromance. when a man has to go, he has to go. lawrence, what _ bromance. when a man has to go, he has to go. lawrence, what would - bromance. when a man has to go, he has to go. lawrence, what would you | has to go. lawrence, what would you like to say? i has to go. lawrence, what would you like to say?— like to say? i don't think i can compete _ like to say? i don't think i can compete with _ like to say? i don't think i can compete with that. _ like to say? i don't think i can compete with that. i - like to say? i don't think i can compete with that. i work- like to say? i don't think i can compete with that. i work as | like to say? i don't think i can| compete with that. i work as a consultern— compete with that. i work as a consultant and _ compete with that. i work as a consultant and i— compete with that. i work as a consultant and i visit - compete with that. i work as a i consultant and i visit companies compete with that. i work as a - consultant and i visit companies to look at _ consultant and i visit companies to look at refrigeration _ consultant and i visit companies to look at refrigeration efficiency. - look at refrigeration efficiency. one thing _ look at refrigeration efficiency. one thing we _ look at refrigeration efficiency. one thing we are _ look at refrigeration efficiency. one thing we are struggling. look at refrigeration efficiency. i one thing we are struggling with look at refrigeration efficiency. - one thing we are struggling with is there _ one thing we are struggling with is there is_ one thing we are struggling with is there is a _ one thing we are struggling with is there is a real— one thing we are struggling with is there is a real shortage _ one thing we are struggling with is there is a real shortage of- one thing we are struggling with is there is a real shortage of skills, . there is a real shortage of skills, there _ there is a real shortage of skills, there seenrs— there is a real shortage of skills, there seems to _ there is a real shortage of skills, there seems to be _ there is a real shortage of skills, there seems to be a _ there is a real shortage of skills, there seems to be a great - there is a real shortage of skills, there seems to be a great deal. there is a real shortage of skills, i there seems to be a great deal of focus _ there seems to be a great deal of focus on — there seems to be a great deal of focus on getting _ there seems to be a great deal of focus on getting people _ there seems to be a great deal of focus on getting people to - there seems to be a great deal of focus on getting people to go - there seems to be a great deal of focus on getting people to go to i focus on getting people to go to university — focus on getting people to go to university i_ focus on getting people to go to university. i don't— focus on getting people to go to university. idon't know- focus on getting people to go to university. i don't know why- focus on getting people to go to| university. i don't know why that is, but _ university. i don't know why that is, but we — university. i don't know why that is, but we are— university. i don't know why that is, but we are struggling - university. i don't know why that is, but we are struggling to- university. i don't know why that is, but we are struggling to get. is, but we are struggling to get people — is, but we are struggling to get people to — is, but we are struggling to get people to work _ is, but we are struggling to get people to work in _ is, but we are struggling to get people to work in the - is, but we are struggling to get. people to work in the refrigeration industry _ people to work in the refrigeration industry its— people to work in the refrigeration industry it's a _ people to work in the refrigeration industry. it's a big _ people to work in the refrigeration industry. it's a big problem - people to work in the refrigeration industry. it's a big problem and ii industry. it's a big problem and i see a _ industry. it's a big problem and i see a lot — industry. it's a big problem and i see a lot of— industry. it's a big problem and i see a lot of dirty— industry. it's a big problem and i see a lot of dirty condenser - industry. it's a big problem and i see a lot of dirty condenser coils| see a lot of dirty condenser coils

and poorly— see a lot of dirty condenser coils and poorly maintained _ see a lot of dirty condenser coils and poorly maintained systems. see a lot of dirty condenser coils i and poorly maintained systems and see a lot of dirty condenser coils - and poorly maintained systems and we need to— and poorly maintained systems and we need to get— and poorly maintained systems and we need to get people _ and poorly maintained systems and we need to get people out _ and poorly maintained systems and we need to get people out of _ and poorly maintained systems and we need to get people out of the - need to get people out of the boardroom _ need to get people out of the boardroom and _ need to get people out of the boardroom and away- need to get people out of the boardroom and away from - need to get people out of the l boardroom and away from their computers _ boardroom and away from their computers and _ boardroom and away from their computers and get _ boardroom and away from their computers and get in _ boardroom and away from their computers and get in the - boardroom and away from their computers and get in the plantl boardroom and away from their. computers and get in the plant and see what's— computers and get in the plant and see what's going _ computers and get in the plant and see what's going on. _ computers and get in the plant and see what's going on.— see what's going on. thank you for sa inc see what's going on. thank you for saying that — see what's going on. thank you for saying that without _ see what's going on. thank you for saying that without swearing! - see what's going on. thank you for| saying that without swearing! what see what's going on. thank you for i saying that without swearing! what i would say is, what do you see around you? do you think people get this and they are careful about refrigeration, switching their engines off and doing their bit? i think you only have to sit outside a school— think you only have to sit outside a school and — think you only have to sit outside a school and see _ think you only have to sit outside a school and see people _ think you only have to sit outside a school and see people parking - think you only have to sit outside a school and see people parking up i school and see people parking up with their— school and see people parking up with their engines— school and see people parking up with their engines running - school and see people parking up with their engines running to - school and see people parking up with their engines running to pick up with their engines running to pick up their— with their engines running to pick up their kids _ with their engines running to pick up their kids. we _ with their engines running to pick up their kids. we need _ with their engines running to pick up their kids. we need to - with their engines running to pick up their kids. we need to raise i with their engines running to pick. up their kids. we need to raise the issue _ up their kids. we need to raise the issue lrut— up their kids. we need to raise the issue but there _ up their kids. we need to raise the issue but there is _ up their kids. we need to raise the issue but there is definitely - up their kids. we need to raise the issue but there is definitely a - up their kids. we need to raise the issue but there is definitely a lot . issue but there is definitely a lot more _ issue but there is definitely a lot more that— issue but there is definitely a lot more that can _ issue but there is definitely a lot more that can be _ issue but there is definitely a lot more that can be done - issue but there is definitely a lot more that can be done within. more that can be done within existing _ more that can be done within existing systems. _ more that can be done within existing systems. some - more that can be done within existing systems. some of. more that can be done withinl existing systems. some of my colleagues _ existing systems. some of my colleagues look— existing systems. some of my colleagues look at _ existing systems. some of my colleagues look at buildings, i existing systems. some of my- colleagues look at buildings, public buildings, — colleagues look at buildings, public buildings, and _ colleagues look at buildings, public buildings, and it— colleagues look at buildings, public buildings, and it is— colleagues look at buildings, public buildings, and it is not— colleagues look at buildings, public buildings, and it is not unusual- colleagues look at buildings, public buildings, and it is not unusual to. buildings, and it is not unusual to see brokeh— buildings, and it is not unusual to see broken fan _ buildings, and it is not unusual to see broken fan belts _ buildings, and it is not unusual to see broken fan belts in _ buildings, and it is not unusual to see broken fan belts in public- see broken fan belts in public buildings, _ see broken fan belts in public buildings, which _ see broken fan belts in public buildings, which are - see broken fan belts in publicl buildings, which are supposed see broken fan belts in public. buildings, which are supposed to see broken fan belts in public- buildings, which are supposed to be getting _ buildings, which are supposed to be getting a _ buildings, which are supposed to be getting a change _ buildings, which are supposed to be getting a change of— buildings, which are supposed to be getting a change of air— buildings, which are supposed to be getting a change of air into- buildings, which are supposed to be getting a change of air into the - getting a change of air into the room — getting a change of air into the room that's _ getting a change of air into the room. that's not _ getting a change of air into the room. that's not happening. . getting a change of air into the - room. that's not happening. there is a lot more _ room. that's not happening. there is

a lot more to — room. that's not happening. there is a lot more to be _ room. that's not happening. there is a lot more to be done _ room. that's not happening. there is a lot more to be done and _ room. that's not happening. there is a lot more to be done and we - room. that's not happening. there is a lot more to be done and we really. a lot more to be done and we really have to _ a lot more to be done and we really have to look— a lot more to be done and we really have to look at _ a lot more to be done and we really have to look at just _ a lot more to be done and we really have to look at just not _ a lot more to be done and we really have to look at just not replacing i have to look at just not replacing all this— have to look at just not replacing all this equipment _ have to look at just not replacing all this equipment but _ have to look at just not replacing all this equipment but looking i have to look at just not replacing all this equipment but looking at| all this equipment but looking at how it _ all this equipment but looking at how it is — all this equipment but looking at how it is balrig— all this equipment but looking at how it is being serviced - all this equipment but looking at how it is being serviced and - how it is being serviced and maintained _ how it is being serviced and maintained and _ how it is being serviced and maintained and how- how it is being serviced and maintained and how much. how it is being serviced and - maintained and how much energy it how it is being serviced and _ maintained and how much energy it is using _ maintained and how much energy it is usina. ~ , , maintained and how much energy it is usin._ . , , using. where were the impetus come from, who using. where were the impetus come from. who will— using. where were the impetus come from, who will do _ using. where were the impetus come from, who will do it _ using. where were the impetus come from, who will do it and _ using. where were the impetus come from, who will do it and who - using. where were the impetus come from, who will do it and who will- from, who will do it and who will make sure it happens? i from, who will do it and who will make sure it happens?— from, who will do it and who will make sure it happens? i don't know, there seems — make sure it happens? i don't know, there seems to _ make sure it happens? i don't know, there seems to be _ make sure it happens? i don't know, there seems to be a _ make sure it happens? i don't know, there seems to be a focus _ make sure it happens? i don't know, there seems to be a focus on - make sure it happens? i don't know, there seems to be a focus on net - there seems to be a focus on net zero _ there seems to be a focus on net zero and — there seems to be a focus on net zero and 2050 _ there seems to be a focus on net zero and 2050 and _ there seems to be a focus on net zero and 2050 and i— there seems to be a focus on net zero and 2050 and i think- there seems to be a focus on net zero and 2050 and i think peoplei there seems to be a focus on net - zero and 2050 and i think people are taking _ zero and 2050 and i think people are taking their— zero and 2050 and i think people are taking their eye _ zero and 2050 and i think people are taking their eye off— zero and 2050 and i think people are taking their eye off the _ zero and 2050 and i think people are taking their eye off the ball. - zero and 2050 and i think people are taking their eye off the ball. i- taking their eye off the ball. i went— taking their eye off the ball. i went to — taking their eye off the ball. i went to a _ taking their eye off the ball. i went to a food _ taking their eye off the ball. i went to a food company - taking their eye off the ball. i. went to a food company recently taking their eye off the ball. i- went to a food company recently who paid me _ went to a food company recently who paid me to— went to a food company recently who paid me to do— went to a food company recently who paid me to do some _ went to a food company recently who paid me to do some work, _ went to a food company recently who paid me to do some work, and - went to a food company recently who paid me to do some work, and they. paid me to do some work, and they cleaned _ paid me to do some work, and they cleaned the — paid me to do some work, and they paid me to do some work, and they cleaned _ paid me to do some work, and they cleaned the — paid me to do some work, and they cleaned the condensing _ cleaned the condensing _ paid me to do some work, and they cleaned the condensing coils, - paid me to do some work, and they cleaned the condensing coils, - paid me to do some work, and they cleaned the condensing coils, and i cleaned the condensing coils, and their energy— paid me to do some work, and they cleaned the condensing coils, and i cleaned the condensing coils, and their energy— cleaned the condensing coils, and cleaned the condensing coils, and their energy efficiency _ their energy efficiency _ cleaned the condensing coils, and their energy efficiency improved i cleaned the condensing coils, and| their energy efficiency improved by 57%. , ., ., it cleaned the condensing coils, and their energy efficiency improved i cleaned the condensing coils, and| their energy efficiency improved by 57%. , ., ., it their energy efficiency improved by 57%-_ it can - their energy efficiency improved by 57%-_ it can be - their energy efficiency improved by their energy efficiency improved by 57%-_ it can - their energy efficiency improved by 57%-_ it can be - their energy efficiency improved by 57%._ it can be done | 57%. there you go. it can be done 57%._ it can be done | 57%. there you go. it can be done the. the. 57%. there you go. it can be done the- thank— 57%. there you go. it can be done the- thank you — 57%. there you go. it can be done the. thank you all _ 57%. there you go. it can be done the. thank you all very _ 57%. there you go. it can be done 57%. there you go. it can be done the- thank— 57%. there you go. it can be done the- thank you — 57%. there you go. it can be done the. thank you all _ 57%. there you go. it can be done the. thank you all very _ 57%. there you go. it can be done the. thank you all very much - the. thank you all very much - 57%. there you go. it can be done l the. thank you all very much indeed for some interesting _ 57%. there you go. it can be done l the. thank you all very much indeed for some interesting _ the. thank you all very much indeed the. thank you all very much indeed for some interesting and _ for some interesting and _ the. thank you all very much indeed for some interesting and colourful i for some interesting and colourful contributions. had a bit of an the. thank you all very much indeed for some interesting and colourful i for some interesting and colourful contributions. had a bit of an incident in both hours, we dropped incident in both hours, we dropped the f word, but there is another the f word, but there is one, the future. and climate change. incident in both hours, we dropped the fword, but and is

it's the present. we will address incident in both hours, we dropped the f word, but and climate change. one, the future. and climate change. it's the present. we will address that again and so we should. have a that again and so we should. have a good monday and see you tomorrow. live from london, this is bbc news. israel launches a large—scale military