what will rishi sunak want to promote? we what will rishi sunak want to promote?— what will rishi sunak want to romote? ~ ~ a, , promote? we know he has his five ledues, promote? we know he has his five pledges. his _ promote? we know he has his five pledges, his priorities _ promote? we know he has his five pledges, his priorities that - promote? we know he has his five pledges, his priorities that he - pledges, his priorities that he keeps talking about, reducing inflation, of course, is key amongst that. that is something we will quite likely here about because he is going to be questioned about the cost of living, the pressures on peoples budgets, the issue right there at the forefront today, which is mortgage rates, borrowers are paying to banks when they take loans to buy houses. topped 6% for a five year mortgage. we to buy houses. topped 696 for a five year mortgage-— to buy houses. topped 696 for a five year mortgage. we are going to have to wra u- year mortgage. we are going to have to wrap up with _ year mortgage. we are going to have to wrap up with you _ year mortgage. we are going to have to wrap up with you there, _ year mortgage. we are going to have to wrap up with you there, the - to wrap up with you there, the committee hearing is starting now, let's cross live to hear what is happening. fin let's cross live to hear what is happening-— let's cross live to hear what is haueninu. ., ., 9,51: , let's cross live to hear what is haueninu. ., ., g; ,~,::, happening. on the dot of 3:30pm, you are usually very _ happening. on the dot of 3:30pm, you are usually very generous _ happening. on the dot of 3:30pm, you are usually very generous with - happening. on the dot of 3:30pm, you are usually very generous with extra i are usually very generous with extra time but _ are usually very generous with extra time but we — are usually very generous with extra time but we will let you off to dave — time but we will let you off to dave we _ time but we will let you off to dave. we have slightly altered the order— dave. we have slightly altered the order because sir bob neil has to

-et order because sir bob neil has to get to— order because sir bob neil has to get to a _ order because sir bob neil has to get to a debate so we will take on first _ get to a debate so we will take on first he _ get to a debate so we will take on first. he will refer to the fact that— first. he will refer to the fact that there is an inquiry launched to explore _ that there is an inquiry launched to explore select committee scrutiny of strategic _ explore select committee scrutiny of strategic thinking across government, with which i can assure you the _ government, with which i can assure you the civii— government, with which i can assure you the civil service and ministers are atready— you the civil service and ministers are already well engaged and we look forward _ are already well engaged and we look forward to— are already well engaged and we look forward to that being a positive inquiry — forward to that being a positive inquiry. sir bob neil.— forward to that being a positive inquiry. sir bob neil. thank you very much. _ inquiry. sir bob neil. thank you very much. sir— inquiry. sir bob neil. thank you very much, sir bernard. - inquiry. sir bob neil. thank you very much, sir bernard. prime l very much, sir bernard. prime minister, opening the bowling is perhaps not the appropriate start for today. we attempt to coordinate the activity of all the select committees. the purpose of the inquiry is to look at the way government seeks to coordinate policy and decisions and action across government departments. do you recognise that there is a

problem with uk government activities being very silent? i activities being very silent? i think that has historically been a concern of government, i saw that as chancellor, actually. —— being very siloed. the things that are important to them focused on and some areas possibly less developed than you might like. i can certainly see why the perception is there. and i saw that as chancellor. flan see why the perception is there. and i saw that as chancellor. can i see why the perception is there. and i saw that as chancellor.— i saw that as chancellor. can i draw the ministry — i saw that as chancellor. can i draw the ministry of _ i saw that as chancellor. can i draw the ministry ofjustice _ i saw that as chancellor. can i draw the ministry ofjustice to _ i saw that as chancellor. can i draw the ministry ofjustice to your - the ministry ofjustice to your attention, a department not protected in financial terms, frequently under pressure because of failures in other parts, for example people end up in thejustice

failures in other parts, for example people end up in the justice system because they have had chaotic lifestyles, they have been failed by social services, failed by school, tjy social services, failed by school, by drug testing programmes, what is the means where government can take into account the pressures placed upon that downstream, recipient of the pressures elsewhere? ianthem upon that downstream, recipient of the pressures elsewhere?— upon that downstream, recipient of the pressures elsewhere? when i was chancellor, the pressures elsewhere? when i was chancellor. we _ the pressures elsewhere? when i was chancellor, we establish _ the pressures elsewhere? when i was chancellor, we establish something i chancellor, we establish something called the shared outcomes fund which funded departments to do exactly this, to work together, particularly where they could tackle some of the problems, upstream or downstream, needing intervention depending on your perspective. the supporting families programme, which used to become the troubled families programme, is a good example of that work was done to evaluate the benefit of that programme on

outcomes in education, the criminal justice system, so government over all can understand the programme, all can understand the programme, all these departments were benefiting one where are another that programme. that is the thinking and there was clear evidence it was having a beneficial impact on the criminaljustice having a beneficial impact on the criminal justice system. having a beneficial impact on the criminaljustice system. the having a beneficial impact on the criminaljustice system. criminal 'ustice system. the home office, criminaljustice system. the home office, government _ criminaljustice system. the home office, government policy - criminaljustice system. the home office, government policy to - criminaljustice system. the home. office, government policy to recruit 20,000 extra 0ffice, government policy to recruit 20,000 extra police officers, what steps are being taken to promptly fund the ministry ofjustice for the extra court time that will be taken up extra court time that will be taken up ljy extra court time that will be taken up by hopefully those police officers capturing more offenders and potential prison time? at the moment, they are not covered to pick up moment, they are not covered to pick up the cost for the extra police officers doing theirjob. mr; officers doing their 'ob. my recollection fl officers doing theirjob. my recollection as chancellor at the time was the funding for that being put in place, the downstream of that 20,000 police officers were

calculated and funded as part of the original settlement for all those departments to deliver on the 20,000 police officers commitment. i was chancellor at the time and i distinctly remember those conversations and that modelling happening with particular focus on the downstream cost. you are absolutely right, we cannot focus just on the cost of police officers, that has an impact elsewhere. my recollection is that was funded as part of the settlement at the time for the 20,000 police officers uplift programme. to for the 20,000 police officers uplift programme.— for the 20,000 police officers uplift programme. for the 20,000 police officers ulift rorramme. ., , ., ., , uplift programme. to try and 'oin up matters within fl uplift programme. to try and 'oin up matters within the i uplift programme. to try and 'oin up matters within the criminal _ uplift programme. to try and join up matters within the criminaljustice . matters within the criminaljustice world at least, there was a criminal justice forum established in 2015, hasn't met since 2021, still appears on the government website in existence. could you perhaps assist to get the criminaljustice bought up to get the criminaljustice bought up and operating again? this is a real concern and a lack ofjoined up across the sectors. i’m real concern and a lack of 'oined up across the sectorsh across the sectors. i'm happy to make sure _ across the sectors. i'm happy to make sure they _ across the sectors. i'm happy to make sure they join _ across the sectors. i'm happy to make sure they join up - across the sectors. i'm happy to make sure they join up is - across the sectors. i'm happy to - make sure they join up is happening make sure theyjoin up is happening and actually i for example, on

tackling illegal migration, that is something where i regularly use different apartments, particularly home office and ministry ofjustice because it requires a cross government cooperation. i will look at making sure we are coordinated and joined up. at making sure we are coordinated andjoined up. it at making sure we are coordinated and joined up. it is to the benefit of the individuals... you and joined up. it is to the benefit of the individuals. . ._ of the individuals... you have recognised — of the individuals... you have recognised in _ of the individuals... you have recognised in the _ of the individuals... you have recognised in the past, - of the individuals... you have j recognised in the past, prime minister, the importance... in october, england and wales will have 0ctober, england and wales will have its first woman chief justice, will you make a point of making an opportunity to meet with her when she takes up her appointment so you

can learn first hand the real pressures on the course. a small business having a money claim that will have all the difference to the survival of the business. i have actually met already with the previous lord chiefjustice, i think a couple of different times, i fully expect i will continue those meetings and engagement with the new lord chiefjustice and we are focused very hard on reducing the court backlog, obviously more funding has gone into it as the committee will be aware but also we have removed the limit on sitting daysin have removed the limit on sitting days in the crown court, continue to use the 19 court rooms and raised the statutory retirement age for officeholders, expanding initial capacity to get through the backlogs. i capacity to get through the backlots. ., ., ~' capacity to get through the backlogs-— backlogs. i look forward to discussing _ backlogs. i look forward to discussing that _ backlogs. i look forward to discussing that with -

backlogs. i look forward to discussing that with the i backlogs. i look forward to i discussing that with the new backlogs. i look forward to - discussing that with the new lord chiefjustice in due course. thank ou ve chiefjustice in due course. thank you very much- — chiefjustice in due course. thank you very much. we _ chiefjustice in due course. thank you very much. we now - chiefjustice in due course. thank you very much. we now move - chiefjustice in due course. thank you very much. we now move on| chiefjustice in due course. thank l you very much. we now move on to chiefjustice in due course. thank - you very much. we now move on to the important _ you very much. we now move on to the important subject of the russian aggression in ukraine and other associated security issues with the chair _ associated security issues with the chair of _ associated security issues with the chair of the — associated security issues with the chair of the foreign affairs committee.— chair of the foreign affairs committee. ~ , committee. prime minister, ifeelwe are on the cusp _ committee. prime minister, ifeelwe are on the cusp of _ committee. prime minister, ifeelwe are on the cusp of the _ committee. prime minister, ifeelwe are on the cusp of the crisis - committee. prime minister, ifeelwe are on the cusp of the crisis of - are on the cusp of the crisis of 2023 in gaza. how will we shedding light on what is taking place but also what outcomes be achieved? what also what outcomes be achieved? what are ou also what outcomes be achieved? what are you referring _ also what outcomes be achieved? what are you referring specifically to? the gazza crisis, palestine, and whatever task foreign civil servants to achieve? its, whatever task foreign civil servants to achieve? �* .., , whatever task foreign civil servants to achieve?— to achieve? a couple of different thints, to achieve? a couple of different things. with _ to achieve? a couple of different things, with regard _ to achieve? a couple of different things, with regard to _ to achieve? a couple of different things, with regard to the - to achieve? a couple of different| things, with regard to the current situation in israel, of course we support israel's right to self—defence and have condemned the recent terrorist attacks, protection

of civilians must be prioritised in any military operation. important for all parties to avoid further escalation in the west bank and gaza particularly in the days ahead. and use necessity and push —— proportionality. with regard to the security council and our actions there, i would security council and our actions there, iwould imagine security council and our actions there, i would imagine we will continue to focus on highlighting what is happening in ukraine and russia's illegal invasion. 0ne what is happening in ukraine and russia's illegal invasion. one thing we have helped play a leading role then i think is ensuring broad support of the un condemning russian action, over140 support of the un condemning russian action, over 140 different countries have signed resolutions and that will continue i would imagine to be a focus in the coming weeks and months. and i think recent events in russia highlight from others the

illegality of russia's invasion and hopefully other countries are recognising that and will continue to use the un as a platform to highlight that. in to use the un as a platform to highlight that.— to use the un as a platform to hitthlihtthat. ,. ,, ., , highlight that. in your discussions with benjamin _ highlight that. in your discussions with benjamin netanyahu, - highlight that. in your discussions with benjamin netanyahu, will. highlight that. in your discussionsj with benjamin netanyahu, will we highlight that. in your discussions - with benjamin netanyahu, will we see dart settlements are illegal under international law, we have said it is an obstacle to peace, threaten the physical viability of a two state solution, we have engaged consistently with benjamin netanyahu and we make it clear that we oppose settlement expansions. its, and we make it clear that we oppose settlement expansions.— settlement expansions. a coalition ofthe settlement expansions. a coalition of the willing _ settlement expansions. a coalition of the willing will _ settlement expansions. a coalition of the willing will bring _ settlement expansions. a coalition of the willing will bring forward - settlement expansions. a coalition of the willing will bring forward in i of the willing will bring forward in ukraine _ of the willing will bring forward in ukraine some sort of security support— ukraine some sort of security support package, security agreement for ukraine, can you set out for me what _ for ukraine, can you set out for me what your— for ukraine, can you set out for me what your vision would be for such a

security— what your vision would be for such a security agreement for ukraine? not wantint security agreement for ukraine? wanting to security agreement for ukraine? idrrt wanting to pre—empt the conversation is already happening in private what i have said is that i think it would be beneficial for ukraine and the conflict further to be a multilateral declaration of support for ukraine into the long term. there are different shapes and forms that can tape, those conversations are happening, the purpose of that declaration can be something that gathers broad support is to demonstrate that support for ukraine will be in place for the long term and that will send a strong signal to vladimir putin that his efforts are in vain and ultimately he should recognise that the coalition are willing to defend the un charter, territorial integrity principles and we will continue to give ukraine support and the means to defend itself against future aggression.

those conversations are ongoing. what sort of level of confidence that we will see a path to nato membership for ukraine are set out and agreed?— membership for ukraine are set out and areed? ., , ., and agreed? those conversations are onttoin , and agreed? those conversations are ongoing. as — and agreed? those conversations are ongoing. as you _ and agreed? those conversations are ongoing. as you all— and agreed? those conversations are ongoing, as you all know _ and agreed? those conversations are ongoing, as you all know nato - and agreed? those conversations are ongoing, as you all know nato is - and agreed? those conversations are ongoing, as you all know nato is a i ongoing, as you all know nato is a consensus organisation and so we are having those conversations with our partners. i have said previously in the past that ukraine's rightful place as nato but the alliance works by consensus so we will have to work together with our allies. there are things we are already doing that will help ukraine on thatjourney, notably increasing the interoperability of capabilities, the training of ukrainian troops to nato standards and the provision of nato standards and the provision of nato standards and the provision of nato standard equipment, all are examples of that type of support that will help ukraine notjust now but on that longer term journey as well. but on that longer term 'ourney as well. ., ., but on that longer term 'ourney as well. ., «i , ., ., ., well. thank you, moving to the balkans, there _ well. thank you, moving to the balkans, there has _ well. thank you, moving to the balkans, there has been - well. thank you, moving to the balkans, there has been an - balkans, there has been an international theory of deterrence

when it comes to the western balkans, the us and eu response... as prime minister will you commit that we rejoin what turkey and chile are members of. and allow kosovo to deal with illegal arms being brought across from serbia, belgrade funded? when the government fully support bosnia and herzegovina territorial integrity and sovereignty for that will continue to take measures against those who threaten that. particular concerned about the situation in the north of kosovo which will be familiar with and very much condemned the attacks by the protesters on k4 personnel. the foreign secretary has already told the prime ministers of kosovo and

serbia that leaders in belgrade to have a responsibility to prevent further violence and tension. and moving back to facilitated dialogue. we see it as vital for peace in bosnia and herzegovina... we are going to continue to explore opportunities to widen cooperation. i would urge the government to look closely. israeland i would urge the government to look closely. israel and palestine, yes or no, will you have a special envoy for the middle east peace process? i for the middle east peace process? i know the... we will be open to that at a time where we think it will be beneficial to the peace process. i

beneficial to the peace process. i will take that as a yes but subject announcement, hopefully. i am will take that as a yes but sub'ect announcement, hopefully. i am not usint m announcement, hopefully. i am not using my time _ announcement, hopefully. i am not using my time in — announcement, hopefully. i am not using my time in the _ announcement, hopefully. i am not using my time in the session - announcement, hopefully. i am not using my time in the session for. announcement, hopefully. i am not| using my time in the session for the benefit _ using my time in the session for the benefit of— using my time in the session for the benefit of others but two supplementary is very briefly, we are confronting russian aggression in ukraine — are confronting russian aggression in ukraine very vociferously and clearly — in ukraine very vociferously and clearly. how confident are you that the international community is not appeasing — the international community is not appeasing proxy russian aggression in the _ appeasing proxy russian aggression in the balkans? | appeasing proxy russian aggression in the balkans?— in the balkans? i don't believe we are. as in the balkans? i don't believe we are- as we _ in the balkans? i don't believe we are. as we have _ in the balkans? i don't believe we are. as we have heard _ in the balkans? i don't believe we are. as we have heard from - in the balkans? i don't believe we are. as we have heard from my i are. as we have heard from my answers to alessia, we are continuing to take quite a robust stance against proxies, notjust in that region were previously in africa as well with wagner, where we see threats to territorial integrity we do our best to stand up for them and that is what we are doing. the war in ukraine will last as long as the friends— war in ukraine will last as long as the friends of democracy around the

world _ the friends of democracy around the world allow— the friends of democracy around the world allow it to last, the more support— world allow it to last, the more support we can get the quicker it will end — support we can get the quicker it will end successfully for the ukrainians, what more could we be doing? _ ukrainians, what more could we be doing? i_ ukrainians, what more could we be doint ? ., , ., ukrainians, what more could we be doint ? ~ , ., , ukrainians, what more could we be doint? ~ , ., , ~ ., , doing? i think is a remedy knows we have provided _ doing? i think is a remedy knows we have provided or— doing? i think is a remedy knows we have provided or are _ doing? i think is a remedy knows we have provided or are providing - doing? i think is a remedy knows we have provided or are providing £2.3l have provided or are providing £2.3 billion in military support for ukraine matching what we gave last year which i believe puts us second only to the americans. as well as just the quantum of support it is the type of support where we have been consistently out in front in the type of capability that we are providing to the ukrainians and training them on, we saw that with the battle tanks, and then most recently with storm shadow long range weapons which are having a beneficial impact. 0n the current state of the conflict. we will continue to do that, look for opportunities to provide ukrainians

with support they need, the priority remains heavy artillery, long—range weapons, training, most recently combat air, we all play a part in an international coalition to provide combat capabilities and particularly training of pilots and we are starting that this summer. this is something i know ukrainians have warmly welcomed and we continue to talk to other countries about increasing their support for ukraine, both in quantum and capability and i think that is important at this stage because the priority is to ensure the counteroffensive can be as successful as we would all like it to be. ., ., successful as we would all like it to be. ., «i i. successful as we would all like it tobe. ., ~ , to be. thank you, prime minister. science and _ to be. thank you, prime minister. science and technology _ to be. thank you, prime minister. science and technology and - to be. thank you, prime minister. science and technology and ai. i to be. thank you, prime minister. science and technology and ai. al to be. thank you, prime minister. i science and technology and ai. a few da s ato science and technology and ai. a few days ago you — science and technology and ai. a few days ago you told _ science and technology and ai. a few days ago you told london _ science and technology and ai. fr days ago you told london tech week that the possibilities of ai are extraordinary, what do you see as the biggest positive impact of artificial intelligence? i the biggest positive impact of artificial intelligence?- artificial intelligence? i think 'ust in artificial intelligence? i think just in the — artificial intelligence? i think

just in the last _ artificial intelligence? i think just in the last few _ artificial intelligence? i think just in the last few weeks i artificial intelligence? i think just in the last few weeks in | artificial intelligence? i think. just in the last few weeks in the news reporting, you have seen some of the promise of ai, paralysed people being able to walk, the kind of cracking of the structure of almost every known protein and starting to build model reactions in nuclearfusion. that starting to build model reactions in nuclear fusion. that gives you a sense of the variety that is there. also when you combine that with the computational power of quantum i think you can imagine a future where incurable diseases like cancer or dementia or new ways to grow crops might be possible. i put it in a couple of different categories, straightforward on the economy side, interesting report from pwc recently that estimated a 10% gdp benefit over the coming decade, you are starting to see in the way that companies are using ai, a european ai hq being open chair and quality

of our research etc, that is on the economic side. i've spoken in the past about the promise of being a general purpose technology and that can lead to an effect on productivity that we are on the cusp of hopefully realising. in public services, i'd say health and education of the two areas where i am excited, particularly in health care, people are reasonably familiar with the opportunity to speed up diagnosis, overa with the opportunity to speed up diagnosis, over a range of different conditions. but also improve the productivity and accuracy of for example people with skin cancer, ai deployed in surgery, and education the opportunity to reduce workload for teachers, whether it be worth planning or marking but also provide personalised tuition for children, and academy is rolling out an ai chat bot which has enormous potential i think because we know

the more personalised approach to learning has huge benefits for children, particularly disadvantaged children, particularly disadvantaged children and tutoring in the physical senses how to scale but the technology allows us to provide that and i think that will be transformational.- and i think that will be transformational. ., , ., ,, , transformational. lots of upsides but in the speech _ transformational. lots of upsides but in the speech at _ transformational. lots of upsides but in the speech at london - transformational. lots of upsides but in the speech at london tech| but in the speech at london tech week we must do it safely, you said, so what is the danger? i week we must do it safely, you said, so what is the danger?— so what is the danger? i would categorise _ so what is the danger? i would categorise the _ so what is the danger? i would categorise the risks _ so what is the danger? i would categorise the risks into - so what is the danger? i would categorise the risks into a - so what is the danger? i would categorise the risks into a few| categorise the risks into a few different buckets. i think first there is the socio— economic risk from the large societal shifts the technology will bring. it is often what technology does, we must be cognizant of it and provide people with the skills they need to flourish in a world that is being changed by technology. i think the second is the risk of misuse, and thatis second is the risk of misuse, and that is whether it is open source models otherwise, that they can be used as tools to generate this information or identify and exploit

vulnerabilities or create harmful content or child sexual abuse, that is another category. and foundation models being used to activate capabilities in the real world. the last category is what people would describe as capability overhangs, that trends into the area of more existential risk because there is a lack of understanding at this point about what the potential of these models might be. separate all of that there are national security risks which i'm sure the honourable gentleman would acknowledge i cannot say, but those for micro—categories is the right way to go about it. but is the right way to go about it. in international safety summit you is the right way to go about it. fish international safety summit you have convened, are you intending that to be a summit of like—minded countries like the us and japan, or is it for all countries, a bit like the international atomic energy authority which includes countries like china and russia, what you have

in mind? i like china and russia, what you have in mind? ., , in mind? i think in the first instance. _ in mind? i think in the first instance, mainly _ in mind? i think in the first instance, mainly what - in mind? i think in the first instance, mainly what we i in mind? i think in the first i instance, mainly what we are in mind? i think in the first - instance, mainly what we are trying to do is acknowledge that there is a global dimension to this challenge and ai doesn't respect national borders, countries are at varying stages of their thinking about how we can put guardrails in place to make sure that we can realise the benefits of ai in a way that is safe and secure. it scenes a sensible and reasonable step to bring some countries together to talk about these problems. —— it seems. there will need to be some coordination so it is quite early thinking, it is morejust about bringing it is quite early thinking, it is more just about bringing people together. bringing who together? people thinking about these things in a similarway people thinking about these things in a similar way to exchange ideas to exchange information, ai doesn't respect national borders and we will all benefit from talking to each other in a conversation with the businesses themselves, and i think thatis businesses themselves, and i think

that is really what this is about was that we are a long way from anyone establishing framework, that is long into the distance but in the first instance just talking with like—minded countries. you first instance just talking with like-minded countries. you have the summit, published _ like-minded countries. you have the summit, published a _ like-minded countries. you have the summit, published a white _ like-minded countries. you have the summit, published a white paper - like-minded countries. you have the summit, published a white paper in l summit, published a white paper in march, the last session of this parliament begins in november. will there be my do you expect to be, an ai bill in the king's speech? i will ai bill in the king's speech? i will not ai bill in the king's speech? i will rrot comment _ ai bill in the king's speech? i will not comment now, _ ai bill in the king's speech? i will not comment now, all _ ai bill in the king's speech? i will not comment now, all those - not comment now, all those conversations are happening and final decisions are being made. i think actually what we need to do, and i think probably we can do lots of this without legislation, is sitting down and figuring out, what are the safety features and guardrails we would like to put in place? i think we have a sense of what some of those might be, whether

it is watermarking, pre—release information sharing, recording and licensing of large training runs. whether it is pretraining or pre—deployment disclosure, transparency on the datasets that are used, those of the categories of things we need to spend time on which is why the foundation model task force has been set up and funded specifically in its early phase to focus on safety research. i think it is an area where the uk can lead. we have good capability on it so if we can develop that capability further in this growing field, it will mean that we will know what to do. and it might well be and so far the conversations with the three reading foundation model companies have been very cooperative. are they calling for legislation? i think what they want for governments to do is put in place the guardrails, and i think they are open about that and i think they are open about that and i think they are open about that and i think thus far they have been very

constructive, open and transparent with government and want to try and find a solution together, it is too early to pre—empt what that might look like. it requires us to get in there and do safety evaluations on there and do safety evaluations on the models and have access to them, and we have had announcements already from some of those foundation model companies that they will provide that access to the government to be able to do that on a priority basis, which i'm grateful for and i think it will help us get this right. we for and i think it will help us get this ritht. ~ ., for and i think it will help us get this ritht. . ., ., , this right. we are dragging behind, --eole this right. we are dragging behind, people have _ this right. we are dragging behind, people have to _ this right. we are dragging behind, people have to be _ this right. we are dragging behind, people have to be quicker. - this right. we are dragging behind, people have to be quicker. i - this right. we are dragging behind, people have to be quicker. i know. people have to be quicker. i know ou are people have to be quicker. i know you are appealing _ people have to be quicker. i know you are appealing the _ people have to be quicker. i know you are appealing the court - people have to be quicker. i know you are appealing the court of - you are appealing the court of appeal�*s ruling on the rwanda scheme, you have said this policy is an important part of your plan to tackle illegal migration and stop small boats. they have a plan for what you will do if the appeal fails? i

what you will do if the appeal fails? ., , ., , fails? i said our belief remains that the plan _ fails? i said our belief remains that the plan that _ fails? i said our belief remains that the plan that we - fails? i said our belief remains that the plan that we have - fails? i said our belief remains that the plan that we have is l fails? i said our belief remains - that the plan that we have is legal, compliant with all our obligations and we will be appealing it vigorously. 0n the ruling, i think what you will see is the lord chief justice in his opinion agree with the high court and with the government that the safeguards and reassurances that we have received from rwanda are sufficient, there is a very specific point of contention about the onward relocation potentially of people sent to rwanda, we believe the safeguards we have are sufficient so we will confidently and vigorously pursue our case. ., ., , , our case. you are betting everything on the rwanda _ our case. you are betting everything on the rwanda policy _ our case. you are betting everything on the rwanda policy being - our case. you are betting everything on the rwanda policy being upheld i our case. you are betting everything| on the rwanda policy being upheld in the spring court? that on the rwanda policy being upheld in the spring court?— the spring court? that is not a fair characterisation. _ the spring court? that is not a fair characterisation. it _ the spring court? that is not a fair characterisation. it is _ the spring court? that is not a fair characterisation. it is a _ the spring court? that is not a fair characterisation. it is a gamble, . characterisation. it is a gamble, isn't it? last— characterisation. it is a gamble, isn't it? last year _ characterisation. it is a gamble, isn't it? last year and _ characterisation. it is a gamble, isn't it? last year and this - characterisation. it is a gamble, isn't it? last year and this year| characterisation. it is a gamble, | isn't it? last year and this year i set out a — isn't it? last year and this year i set out a range _ isn't it? last year and this year i set out a range of— isn't it? last year and this year i set out a range of things - isn't it? last year and this year i set out a range of things we - isn't it? last year and this year i set out a range of things we are| set out a range of things we are doing to tackle this problem, so for example... j doing to tackle this problem, so for example- - -— example... i have some specific questions- _ example... i have some specific questions- as — example... i have some specific questions. as you _ example... i have some specific questions. as you asked - example... i have some specific

questions. as you asked the - questions. as you asked the question. — questions. as you asked the question, there _ questions. as you asked the question, there can - questions. as you asked the question, there can be - questions. as you asked the question, there can be a - questions. as you asked the - question, there can be a substantive addition piece is the new deal we have with albania. itirui’ith addition piece is the new deal we have with albania.— addition piece is the new deal we have with albania. with the greatest res-ect, have with albania. with the greatest respect. prime _ have with albania. with the greatest respect, prime minster, _ have with albania. with the greatest respect, prime minster, i— have with albania. with the greatest respect, prime minster, i have - respect, prime minster, i have little time. respect, prime minster, i have little time-— respect, prime minster, i have little time. ., ., ., , ., little time. you made a statement that we are _ little time. you made a statement that we are betting _ little time. you made a statement that we are betting the _ little time. you made a statement that we are betting the house - little time. you made a statement that we are betting the house on i little time. you made a statement i that we are betting the house on one thing, i think it is reasonable to say let me give you an example of something else significant. i say let me give you an example of something else significant.- something else significant. i have tuite a something else significant. i have quite a few _ something else significant. i have quite a few questions. _ something else significant. i have quite a few questions. you - something else significant. i have quite a few questions. you are i something else significant. i have i quite a few questions. you are clear you think rwanda is going to succeed. 0ne you think rwanda is going to succeed. one small boats, i think it is six months today such a major five promises to the british people including stopping the small boats. when all those in the supreme court, right know your plans around rwanda are on hold, so does that mean your attempt to stop the small boats, thatis attempt to stop the small boats, that is on hold at the moment? ihia. that is on hold at the moment? no, and a good — that is on hold at the moment? no, and a good example of why it is not on hold is our deal with albania, accounting for a third of the legal

migrants that crossed last year, we looked at that as surprising and that albania is clearly a safe country and an ally, european nation and it is a signatory to those same treaties we are on those issues. which is why our new deal with albania in how we treat illegal migrants from albania... i’m albania in how we treat illegal migrants from albania... i'm keen to address the — migrants from albania... i'm keen to address the fact _ migrants from albania... i'm keen to address the fact that _ migrants from albania... i'm keen to address the fact that in _ migrants from albania... i'm keen to address the fact that in june. .. - migrants from albania... i'm keen to address the fact that in june. .. you i address the fact that in june. .. you asked for an _ address the fact that injune... you asked for an example of the committee continuing to stop the boats outside of the rwanda policy, this is an example of something, we have returned almost 2000 illegal migrants. have returned almost 2000 illegal mitrants. ., ., , migrants. none of the returns actually relate _ migrants. none of the returns actually relate to _ migrants. none of the returns actually relate to people - migrants. none of the returns actually relate to people who | actually relate to people who travelled on small boats last year, do they? travelled on small boats last year, do the ? �* .., , travelled on small boats last year, dothe? ,, .,~ travelled on small boats last year, dothe? , .,~ ., do they? because we work through the backlot of do they? because we work through the backlog of people _ do they? because we work through the backlog of people we've _ do they? because we work through the backlog of people we've got _ do they? because we work through the backlog of people we've got but - backlog of people we've got but because of the new deal we are now able to return people to albania as you can see the early benefit of that deterrence because recent data

shows the number of illegal migrants from albania have reduced significantly since we put the new deal in place. significantly since we put the new deal in place-— deal in place. let's move on from albania. deal in place. let's move on from albania- the _ deal in place. let's move on from albania. the largest _ deal in place. let's move on from albania. the largest number - deal in place. let's move on from albania. the largest number of i albania. the largest number of people who crossed the channel in small boats last year, the largest number in any of the records that have been capped over the last five years, 3824, the majority, a large chunk come from afghanistan. what i'm trying to get to is with the rate of progress you are making at the moment, when do you think we will be able to fulfil your pledge to stop the small boats? obviously the court will _ working to show people that if they do come th smalli't be able to go working to show people that if they do come th small boats? ile to go working to show people that if they do come th small boats?— to stop the small boats? obviously the court will _ to stop the small boats? obviously the court will have _ to stop the small boats? obviously the court will have to _ to stop the small boats? obviously the court will have to determine i to stop the small boats? obviously the court will have _ to stop the small boats? obviously the court will have to _ to stop the small boats? obviously the court will have to determine i to stop the small boats? obviouslyj the court will have to determine its own ruling and that is outside of to stop the small boats? obviouslyj the court will have to determine its own ruling and that is outside of the government's hands, the court the government's hands, the court will determine the timing of it, but will determine the timing of it, but in the meantime we can get on with a in the meantime we can get on with a range of other things, as i said, we range of other things, as i said, we have talked about the deal and have talked about the deal and albania. ., ., ., ,, ., albania. ., ., ., ,, ., have talked about the deal and albania. ., ., ., ~ ., ., albania. you have talked about that tuite a have talked about the deal and albania. ., ., ., ~ ., ., albania. you have talked about that tuite a albania. you have talked about that quite a lot- — albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one _ albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one of— albania. you have talked about that quite a lot- — albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one _ albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one of— albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one of the _ albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one of the other - albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one of the other things| quite a lot. one of the other things we're doing — albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one of the _ albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one of the other - albania. you have talked about that quite a lot. one of the other things| quite a lot. one of the other things we're doing — quite a lot. one of the other things we're doing is _ quite a lot. one of the other things we're doing is tackling _ quite a lot. one of the other things we're doing is _ quite a lot. one of the other things we're doing is tackling _ quite a lot. one of the other things we're doing is tackling illegal- we're doing is tackling illegal working to show people that if they quite a lot. one of the other things we're doing is tackling illegal- we're doing is tackling illegal working to show people that if they

do come they won't be able to go do come they won't be able to