tv Newsnight BBC News July 4, 2023 10:30pm-11:10pm BST
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ladies and gentlemen, play suspended. - on went the covers and they never came off. but, even on this dreariest of days, for a few fans, it was still worth it. andy swiss, bbc news, wimbledon. time for a look at the weather. here's stav da naos. for the tennis fans out there, things are looking a lot better for the rest of the week. maybe a few interruptions tomorrow with a few showers but after that it will turn warmer and sunnier but maybe thunderstorms at the weekend, although that is a long way off. you will enjoy a play on the outdoor courts in the next few days. we have had some pretty heavy showers and thunderstorms in northern england and south in scotland, rain totals mounting up, but most of the showers will fade away and the wet and windy weather will be confined to the far
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south—east of england where we could have 50 mph gales in norfolk and suffolk. in the early hours. elsewhere, net of dry weather and clear skies. temperatures 7—9. we are in between weather systems so the low pressure system to the north west of scotland will enhance the showers so some of them could be heavy and merged together but elsewhere it is a much better picture in the south, sunshine and showers, some areas may stay dry but showers, some areas may stay dry but showers can emerge pretty much anywhere. temperatures, a bit more sunshine around, up to 21, but it is the high teens further north. we have changes as we move into thursday, roma is �*drunk with power�* and determined to �*destroy�* the left.
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in an exclusive interview with newsnight, john mcdonnell warns there'll be consequences for keir starmer if he remains intent on �*purging' the party's left wing. i think what he's allowed to happen is a right—wing faction become drunk with power and use devices within the party almost on a search and destroy of the left. meanwhile, can rishi sunak achieve his five key pledges that he set out six months ago? today he had to answer that question multiple times — and couldn't say — yes, he would hit his targets. we have a packed line up of politicians and experts to address the challenges and opportunities for
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both party leaders — they they are in the newsnight green room — and by popular demand, the return of the much—loved newsnight whiteboard. also tonight. could russia really be about to risk a nuclear incident by attacking the power plant in zaporizhzhia? we'll speak live to ukraine's ambassador to the un's atomic agency. and caitlin moran on whether it's time for a ministerfor men. if you are a 15—year—old boy growing up if you are a 15—year—old boy growing up in the last 15 years it seems unfair and if you up in the last 15 years it seems unfairand if you had up in the last 15 years it seems unfair and if you had an equalities minister maybe you would stop calling us at femnazi. good evening. we open tonight with new details of the scale of what seems to be a rapidly escalating civil war inside the labour party. for weeks there have been growing
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grumbles behind the scenes from some of those on the left about what they see as the overzealous targetting of some of their colleagues by a leadership making moves to do what it sees as necessary to professionalise the party. tonight the tensions are bursting into public asjohn mcdonnell, the former shadow chancellor and labour's most seniorfigure on the left, tells this programme that he believes sir keir has allowed those around him to become �*drunk with power�* — that they're now more interested in wiping out labour's left than winning the next election. even tony blair, he told nick, found space in the party for those on the left. we'll discuss in a moment whether the labour leadership�*s actions leave them exposed to accusations of factionalism. or whether a public falling out with some of those closest to the suspended former leader jeremy corbyn, might provide a further boost in the polls. first here's nick with his exclusive report. brothers in arms once. now
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adversaries as the formerjunior partner breaks with the old regime. shouting slogans or changing lives conference. .. shouting slogans or changing lives conference-— conference. facing down failure, sa s the conference. facing down failure, says the leadership, _ conference. facing down failure, says the leadership, to - conference. facing down failure, says the leadership, to take - conference. facing down failure, i says the leadership, to take labour from its worst defeat in almost a century to the prospect of power. there is a right—wing faction that got into fairly senior positions and seem to be waging some purge against the left. �* . ., , seem to be waging some purge against the left. ~ . ., , . ., seem to be waging some purge against the left. n ., , . ., seem to be waging some purge against theleft. n .,, . ., , the left. actions that go way beyond an hinu b the left. actions that go way beyond anything by any _ the left. actions that go way beyond anything by any other— the left. actions that go way beyond anything by any other modern - the left. actions that go way beyond | anything by any other modern labour party leader says a talisman of the left who believes that they are being purged. no place for us on the approved list say some aspiring mps. mass resignations in copeland after a local councillor failed to mass resignations in copeland after a local councillorfailed to make the cuts. sitting mps say they are losing out in selections for new seats where there is a success for
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others. a sitting labour mayor was excluded from standing as the party's mayor for the new north east mayoralty after refusing to apologise for sharing a platform with the filmmaker ken loach. neil lawson, a stalwart of the soft left, is facing the threat of expulsion over old tweets expressing support for the greens. there have been criticisms and skirmishes. all within reasonable boundaries. tonight, that's no longer the case. there is factionalism that has broken out on a scale that we've not seen before. fix, broken out on a scale that we've not seen before-— seen before. a key figure from the jerem seen before. a key figure from the jeremy corbyn _ seen before. a key figure from the jeremy corbyn era _ seen before. a key figure from the jeremy corbyn era has _ seen before. a key figure from the jeremy corbyn era has written - seen before. a key figure from the jeremy corbyn era has written to i jeremy corbyn era has written to keir starmer to complain about the treatment of the left. what keir starmer to complain about the treatment of the left.— treatment of the left. what i'm sa in: is treatment of the left. what i'm saying is what _ treatment of the left. what i'm saying is what he _ treatment of the left. what i'm saying is what he has _ treatment of the left. what i'm saying is what he has allowed l treatment of the left. what i'm l saying is what he has allowed to
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happen i think is a right—wing faction becoming drunk with power and using devices within the party almost on a search and destroy of the left. they seem more interested in destroying the presence of the left in the party than getting a labour government. we all want a broad church party and we want to build enthusiasm before the election but we need commitment when times get rough in government. that is when you draw upon all elements of the party, you cannot let one element dominate.— the party, you cannot let one element dominate. you talk about bein: in element dominate. you talk about being in government _ element dominate. you talk about being in government because - element dominate. you talk about being in government because you | element dominate. you talk about - being in government because you were elected when tony blair came in and he tolerated you i seem to remember and he tolerated jeremy corbyn and had quite a good relationship with dennis skinner.— had quite a good relationship with dennis skinner. under tony blair we did not have — dennis skinner. under tony blair we did not have miles, _ dennis skinner. under tony blair we did not have miles, mass— dennis skinner. under tony blair we j did not have miles, mass expulsions like this or that the withdrawal of the whip unless it was something very extreme. there was an
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atmosphere of tolerance and respect as well. in atmosphere of tolerance and respect as well. ., ,, . ., as well. in the former shadow chancellor _ as well. in the former shadow chancellor has _ as well. in the former shadow chancellor has a _ as well. in the former shadow chancellor has a warning - as well. in the former shadow chancellor has a warning for. as well. in the former shadow i chancellor has a warning for keir starmer. , . . . ., starmer. there is a faction here that actually — starmer. there is a faction here that actually are _ starmer. there is a faction here that actually are so _ starmer. there is a faction here that actually are so intolerant . starmer. there is a faction here i that actually are so intolerant that they are removing people that will weaken the party and i said to him if you stumble these other people that will come for you.— if you stumble these other people that will come for you. short shrift to that from _ that will come for you. short shrift to that from a _ that will come for you. short shrift to that from a starmer _ that will come for you. short shrift to that from a starmer supporter. | that will come for you. short shrift| to that from a starmer supporter. i do not think it is right to describe what _ do not think it is right to describe what is _ do not think it is right to describe what is happening is a purge. i think— what is happening is a purge. i think two— what is happening is a purge. i think two things are going on, the first is— think two things are going on, the first is that — think two things are going on, the first is that keir starmer is building _ first is that keir starmer is building a labour party that is capable — building a labour party that is capable and equipped to govern this country— capable and equipped to govern this country and transform it and ultimately to do what it is supposed to do— ultimately to do what it is supposed to do which is to serve the british people _ to do which is to serve the british people. that means getting people with talent, energy and commitment into parliament to do that. the second — into parliament to do that. the second thing i think is going on is that keir— second thing i think is going on is that keir starmer is implementing the equalities and human rights commission recommendations in full. and if—
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commission recommendations in full. and if there _ commission recommendations in full. and if there are people who have treated _ and if there are people who have treated things, shared things on facebook, engaged with toasts that full file _ facebook, engaged with toasts that full file of those recommendations, those _ full file of those recommendations, those people are and should be blocked — those people are and should be blocked from being part of the labour — blocked from being part of the labour party leadership in the future — labour party leadership in the future. . , , , labour party leadership in the future. . ,, , , labour party leadership in the future. . , , , , . future. happier times but a definitive _ future. happier times but a definitive split _ future. happier times but a definitive split as _ future. happier times but a definitive split as keir- future. happier times but a i definitive split as keir starmer charts a new course. we asked the labour frontbech for an interview but no one was available. and we asked numerous labour mps and peers supportive of keir starmer. let's talk now to neal lawson, a labour party member for 44 years and who has worked for or closely with tony blair, gordon brown and ed milliband, but now finds himself under investigation by the party. doesjohn mcdonnell have a point? i think it is worrying when it reaches the kind of soft left mainstream elements of the labour party. clearly a party needs discipline and the people are acting around the
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anti—semitism issue than those things must be dealt with. but i am a pluralist and i like working with people across the whole party and outside of the labour party to build a better country. and if they come for me then i'm not quite sure who is safe. you cannot go to government wanting to change the country if you mps are scared and your activists are scared. they should be a feeling of hope and optimism and desire to build a different country and everyone at the moment is looking over their shoulder.— over their shoulder. having been a labour over their shoulder. having been a labour party _ over their shoulder. having been a labour party member _ over their shoulder. having been a labour party member for - over their shoulder. having been a labour party member for 40 i over their shoulder. having been a labour party member for 40 yearsj labour party member for a0 years what does that mean that you are being investigated for potentially breaking the rules? let being investigated for potentially breaking the rules?— being investigated for potentially breaking the rules? let me be clear that i have not _ breaking the rules? let me be clear that i have not broken _ breaking the rules? let me be clear that i have not broken any - breaking the rules? let me be clear that i have not broken any rules, i that i have not broken any rules, accusations have been made about me supporting the green party which i have not done. i merely abdicated cross party working. let have not done. i merely abdicated cross party working.— have not done. i merely abdicated cross party working. let me explain to the audience, _
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cross party working. let me explain to the audience, in _ cross party working. let me explain to the audience, in may _ cross party working. let me explain to the audience, in may 2021 i cross party working. let me explain to the audience, in may 2021 you i to the audience, in may 2021 you tweeted a post from the lib dems layla moran which she was encouraging lib dems to vote for the green party and you added your view saying that this is progressive politics. except in this case the progressive politics that you were talking about was about removing labour councillors in that ward. bill labour councillors in that ward. all that labour councillors in that ward. fill that i was quoting the tweet for was the act of progressive parties working together. to be honest i did not know what was going on in the place and then i found out that this was a deal done in 2017 to get layla moran who is a very good liberal democrat mp over the line against the conservative mp. 50 democrat mp over the line against the conservative mp.— democrat mp over the line against the conservative mp. so you did not know what was _ the conservative mp. so you did not know what was going _ the conservative mp. so you did not know what was going on _ the conservative mp. so you did not know what was going on and - the conservative mp. so you did not know what was going on and did i know what was going on and did not make an effort to find out so potentially you've broken the rules.
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no because i was not talking about that particular place but about the issue and the principal. ida that particular place but about the issue and the principal.— that particular place but about the issue and the principal. no one knew when ou issue and the principal. no one knew when you tweeted _ issue and the principal. no one knew when you tweeted that. _ issue and the principal. no one knew when you tweeted that. i'm - when you tweeted that. i'm explaining _ when you tweeted that. i'm explaining i _ when you tweeted that. i'm explaining i did _ when you tweeted that. i“n explaining i did not know what was going on and this was about the principle of cooperative politics which the labour party has always done every time it has been successful, it has worked with the lib dems and other parties and must do again if we are to change the country. do again if we are to change the count . ~ , . ,., do again if we are to change the count . ~ , . , country. well it is labour party oli country. well it is labour party policy that _ country. well it is labour party policy that labour _ country. well it is labour party policy that labour will - country. well it is labour party policy that labour will stand i country. well it is labour party policy that labour will stand at j policy that labour will stand at every seat but when did you realise you had made a mistake? it is every seat but when did you realise you had made a mistake?— every seat but when did you realise you had made a mistake? it is not a mistake to — you had made a mistake? it is not a mistake to say _ you had made a mistake? it is not a mistake to say i _ you had made a mistake? it is not a mistake to say i believe _ you had made a mistake? it is not a mistake to say i believe in - mistake to say i believe in progressives who agree with so much together working together. in 19a5 the labour party and liberal democrats work together and in 1997 and in the future to solve the climate we have to work together. but it was a mistake and you did not make it clear that you would not
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talk about the place. i make it clear that you would not talk about the place.— talk about the place. i was 'ust talkin: talk about the place. i was 'ust talking about i talk about the place. i was 'ust talking about the i talk about the place. i wasjust| talking about the principle. but talk about the place. i was just i talking about the principle. but you did not make that clear. you would not say that this is about the principle of cooperation, i said that they were cooperating and i think that progressives just as people do in all walks of life they cooperate to make good things happen and we have to do that in politics. have you had support with people within the labour party? i’zre have you had support with people within the labour party?— within the labour party? i've had amazin: within the labour party? i've had amazing support _ within the labour party? i've had amazing support from _ within the labour party? i've had l amazing support from everywhere. within the labour party? i've had i amazing support from everywhere. how senior? towards the very top of the party, i've had messages directly and through third parties. the shadow cabinet? yes. how many? four orfive people from shadow cabinet? yes. how many? four or five people from the shadow cabinet have contacted me directly or indirectly and said they think this is an absurd thing to do. if what you say is right then what does that tell us about the party at the moment? i that tell us about the party at the moment? ~ .
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that tell us about the party at the moment? ~' . , ., , ., moment? i think there are people who are worried about _ moment? i think there are people who are worried about winning _ moment? i think there are people who are worried about winning the - moment? i think there are people who are worried about winning the next i are worried about winning the next election and taking too much of a bureaucratic position on it. you win elections through ideas, culture and help and i think that the party should be talking about that stuff just as they did in 1997 when you had this energetic wave wanting a new britain. that is what we should now be generating because the country wants a new britain and a new politics and they do not want this old crunching down on people and not having any debate. ii sir and not having any debate. if sir keir starmer _ and not having any debate. if sir keir starmer and _ and not having any debate. if sir keir starmer and the _ and not having any debate. if sir keir starmer and the party machine do not that people properly then when you are in the money into a general election if the labour party is not betting its own people than the tories definitely will be. i am all for being _ the tories definitely will be. i —n all for being professional. i was part of the new labour machine and i'm all for that kind of professional approach but it has to be the politics of hope for a better country. if it is just a machine it is not good enough. country. if it isjust a machine it is not good enough.—
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from questions about the opposition, to questions about the government. at the start of the year, rishi sunak made his five promises — to halve inflation by the end of this year, grow the economy, reduce national debt, cut nhs waiting lists and stop the boats. it was an attempt to reset the agenda and move on from partygate. how's that going? today the met are re—opening their investigation into breaches of covid regulations at a christmas party at conservative party hq - that's thejingle and mingle do. and they're also now looking into an event in parliament in decemmber 2020, allegedly involving backbencher sir bernard jenkin. there are questions now also around mr sunak�*s five pledges — it's six months exactly since he set them out. so how's he doing? tonight we're going to assess what progress — or otherwise — he is making and whether his targets are achieveable at all before the next election? this is what mr sunak said onjanuary ath. they are your government's
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priorities, and we will either have achieved them, or not. no tricks, no ambiguity. we are either delivering for you, or we're not. today the prime minister appeared before poweful liaison committee, made up of select committee chairs. he was asked by labour's dame diana johnson about his promise to stop the boats and conservative mp harriet baldwin pressed him on his target to halve inflation. do you think you will be able to fulfil your pledge to stop the small boats? obviously the court will have to determine its own ruling, and that is outside of the government's hands. and you want to half inflation this year and how is that going, what probability would you assign to you achieving that by the end of the year? i will leave that to the forecasters, but we remain committed to bringing inflation down. and halfway is a step on it going back down to the inflation target, which is obviously even lower than that. and that is clearly inflation proving more persistent
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than people anticipated. so what percentage would you put on achieving your goal of halving inflation? i don't have one for you, and working 100% to deliver it, and we will keep doing that. let's talk to our newsnight panel about what goals are achievable and if they're not, then what? fraser nelson is editor of the spectator magazine. tim montgomerie was special adviser to prime minister borisjohnson in 2019 and founded the conservative home site. and ayesha hazarika is a former political adviser to the labour party and now presents on times radio. so fraser w the five pledges, will he reach them? is he going to fail? this talk of halving inflation. it looked achievable. now the winds are blowing the wrong way and he will miss that pledge of halving inflation. he said he would grow the economy. it is a rare prime minister who doesn't grow the economy, people
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take that to mean serious growth. instead we are seeing incomes decline at their fastest rate for decades and we will note gossamer growth. and it will feel to people like a promise that was not kept. debt falling, it was never going to fall. ~ , _ debt falling, it was never going to fall. ~ , , debt falling, it was never going to fall-— because i debt falling, it was never going to l fall._ because he fall. why did he say it? because he meant rising. _ fall. why did he say it? because he meant rising, but _ fall. why did he say it? because he meant rising, but not _ fall. why did he say it? because he meant rising, but not quite - fall. why did he say it? because he meant rising, but not quite as i fall. why did he say it? because he meant rising, but not quite as fast| meant rising, but not quite as fast as the economy. in other words the ratio would be falling. but even the ratio would be falling. but even the ratio will go up, the official forecasts show this pledge will be failed as well. then there is waiting lists, it seemed in october they were stagnating and now the nhs has been given orders to get the waiting lists down, but the doctors' strikes have made that harder and waiting lists are going up. i think
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we will see waiting lists up. so the pledge failed. that leaves us with the most audacious pledge, to stop the most audacious pledge, to stop the small boats. i reckon that might have been at a push achievable had he got the rwanda plan up. we saw arrivals from albania fall by 99%. now the courts have found against the rwanda plan and when it comes to stopping the small boats, another fail. so five pledges and it looks like five failures. idols? fail. so five pledges and it looks like five failures.— like five failures. now let's do a swap with _ like five failures. now let's do a swap with tim. _ like five failures. now let's do a swap with tim. where - like five failures. now let's do a swap with tim. where are i like five failures. now let's do a swap with tim. where are you | like five failures. now let's do a l swap with tim. where are you on like five failures. now let's do a i swap with tim. where are you on the pledges? swap with tim. where are you on the ledaes? �* . swap with tim. where are you on the ”ledes? �* ., ., ., pledges? after that gloom, i will t and be pledges? after that gloom, i will try and be more _ pledges? after that gloom, i will try and be more optimistic. i pledges? after that gloom, i will try and be more optimistic. we l pledges? after that gloom, i will. try and be more optimistic. we have had a bad six months on inflation, but we should just about hit rishi sunak�*s target. 50 but we should just about hit rishi sunak's target.— sunak's target. so prices are still risin but sunak's target. so prices are still rising but not _ sunak's target. so prices are still rising but not as _ sunak's target. so prices are still rising but not as fast? _ sunak's target. so prices are still rising but not as fast? yes. i sunak's target. so prices are still. rising but not as fast? yes. whether that will feel. _ rising but not as fast? yes. whether that will feel, fraser's _
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rising but not as fast? yes. whether that will feel, fraser's point - rising but not as fast? yes. whether that will feel, fraser's point about . that will feel, fraser's point about whether it feels for people will things have changed is another question. but i think he will hit the target on the economy growing. meaningful growth? no, but we have avoided recession. rishi sunak can bag that. partly because of something that annoys tory mps, the increase in income tax there is enough there for him to say he has technically hit the target. technically with a lot of heavy lifting. technically with a lot of heavy liftini. �* ., �* lifting. although i'm giving him ireen on lifting. although i'm giving him green on these _ lifting. although i'm giving him green on these things, - lifting. although i'm giving him| green on these things, whether people will feel the competence of the tory party has been recovered, that was the intention, to show the conservative party could deliver things. that is not another question. on whether he can say by the letter of the pledge he has met them, i think he will be able to do that on waiting lists. but it will be more about reducing the very long
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lists, ratherthan be more about reducing the very long lists, rather than the number of people on waiting lists. this is the most controversial one. he won't stop the small boats, but he will reduce the number. the stop the small boats, but he will reduce the number. the promise was to sto- the reduce the number. the promise was to stop the boats? _ reduce the number. the promise was to stop the boats? it _ reduce the number. the promise was to stop the boats? it was _ reduce the number. the promise was to stop the boats? it was in - reduce the number. the promise was to stop the boats? it was in the i to stop the boats? it was in the s-eech, to stop the boats? it was in the speech. but _ to stop the boats? it was in the speech. but if— to stop the boats? it was in the speech, but if you _ to stop the boats? it was in the speech, but if you watched i to stop the boats? it was in the speech, but if you watched the | speech, but if you watched the speech, but if you watched the speech, journalist after journalist sought clarification and he would then only say reducing the number. thank you, but he did say stop the boats twice in that speech. ayesha hazarika where are you on these pledges? iflat hazarika where are you on these iliedes? ., . , �* pledges? not great news, i'm in agreement _ pledges? not great news, i'm in agreement with _ pledges? not great news, i'm in agreement with fraser, - pledges? not great news, i'm in agreement with fraser, which i pledges? not great news, i'm in agreement with fraser, which is| pledges? not great news, i'm in i agreement with fraser, which is an odd thing. halving inflation is problematic, because inflation is proving more sticky than he thought. we don't know what is happening and lyle energy prices will come down, food prices are high and there is a lag between inflation going down and people feeling it. soing so i think
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that will be a fail. because inflation is so high, interest rates have gone up. this will harm the economy. in order to cool down the economy, which is what the bank of england has had to do by putting up interest rate there is could be a recession. this won'tjust be really difficult for all of us, it will be difficult for all of us, it will be difficult for all of us, it will be difficult for businesses as well. of course related to the economy, debt falling, it is not going to fall. as fraser said, falling, it is not going to fall. as frasersaid, it falling, it is not going to fall. as fraser said, it is already had to go up fraser said, it is already had to go up for some very worthy causes, including furlough, when rishi sunak was chancellor, they had to put more money into the nhs. but that means that debt is going up. the interest is going up to service the debt. so there is no way that the debt�*s going to fall. waiting lists, next to the cost—of—living crisis, waiting lists are the no 2 issues for most people and while some good work has gone into the nhs workforce plan. it is like putting water into
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a bath and you haven't got the plug in it. there are so many people leaving the nhs, strikes, so all of that will have a problem for waiting lists. finally, stop the boats, i disagree with tim, i think he made stopping the boats the central plank. that is what people remember. that is not happening. the numbers are getting higher and higher. fake are getting higher and higher. fake a seat. are getting higher and higher. fake a seat- thank— are getting higher and higher. fake a seat. thank you. _ are getting higher and higher. fake a seat. thank you. -- _ are getting higherand higher. fake a seat. thank you. —— take a sheet. thank you. well those are the predictions, let's return to our panel at the sofa. tim, you are a conservative supporter and nelson you have different views on the pledges. the siectator different views on the pledges. iia: spectator is different views on the pledges. "iia: spectator is data—led different views on the pledges. i““ia: spectator is data—led and different views on the pledges. iia: spectator is data—led and rishi sunak gave us these pledges. lathe? sunak gave us these pledges. why? because he wanted _ sunak gave us these pledges. why? because he wanted to _ sunak gave us these pledges. why? because he wanted to show - sunak gave us these pledges. why? because he wanted to show i - sunak gave us these pledges. why? because he wanted to show i may not be charismatic, but i am a man who
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delivered and he chose what looked easy. what prime minister hasn't grown the economy? he made a bet and the bet turned out the wrong way. the major bet was that the rwanda policy may work and that was the biggest fail he has had. he wanted to pose as the man who gets things done and now he will be judged by the yard sticks he asked us to judge him. the yard sticks he asked us to 'udge him. ., , ., the yard sticks he asked us to 'udge him. ., ,., , ., him. that is an opportunity for the labour him. that is an opportunity for the labour party. _ him. that is an opportunity for the labour party, notwithstanding i him. that is an opportunity for the l labour party, notwithstanding what we reported earlier. yes. labour party, notwithstanding what we reported earlier.— we reported earlier. yes, but i think to try — we reported earlier. yes, but i think to try and _ we reported earlier. yes, but i think to try and rise _ we reported earlier. yes, but i think to try and rise above i we reported earlier. yes, but i think to try and rise above it i we reported earlier. yes, but i think to try and rise above it itj think to try and rise above it it must — think to try and rise above it it must be — think to try and rise above it it must be good for the party but not for politics — must be good for the party but not for politics. you had rishi sunak coming — for politics. you had rishi sunak coming in — for politics. you had rishi sunak coming in after liz truss and he is trying _ coming in after liz truss and he is trying to— coming in after liz truss and he is trying to reassure the country that you can _ trying to reassure the country that you can believe in politicians and he will _ you can believe in politicians and he will fail— you can believe in politicians and he will fail on all of them. i think that will— he will fail on all of them. i think that will make people feel dismayed and the _ that will make people feel dismayed and the final thing on the, i understand why we have done the five
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pledges, _ understand why we have done the five pledges, that is what he said, the things— pledges, that is what he said, the things that your listeners and the countries — things that your listeners and the countries will feel, they will think about— countries will feel, they will think about two— countries will feel, they will think about two things — am i poorer now than _ about two things — am i poorer now than i _ about two things — am i poorer now than i was? — about two things — am i poorer now than i was? are my kids poorer? has my mortgage gone up? the second is the nhs _ my mortgage gone up? the second is the nhs and waiting lists. tim, what can rishi sunak— the nhs and waiting lists. tim, what can rishi sunak do _ the nhs and waiting lists. tim, what can rishi sunak do between - the nhs and waiting lists. tim, what can rishi sunak do between now- the nhs and waiting lists. tim, what can rishi sunak do between now and the election to try to achieve what he said he would? i the election to try to achieve what he said he would?— he said he would? i think despite the fact that _ he said he would? i think despite the fact that technically - he said he would? i think despite the fact that technically he i he said he would? i think despite the fact that technically he will i the fact that technically he will meet — the fact that technically he will meet the — the fact that technically he will meet the targets, _ the fact that technically he will meet the targets, i'm - the fact that technically he will meet the targets, i'm not i the fact that technically he will meet the targets, i'm not sure the fact that technically he will- meet the targets, i'm not sure they were _ meet the targets, i'm not sure they were the _ meet the targets, i'm not sure they were the wisest _ meet the targets, i'm not sure they were the wisest strategy. _ meet the targets, i'm not sure they were the wisest strategy. [5 - meet the targets, i'm not sure they were the wisest strategy.— were the wisest strategy. is there an hini were the wisest strategy. is there anything he _ were the wisest strategy. is there anything he can — were the wisest strategy. is there anything he can do. _ were the wisest strategy. is there anything he can do. we _ were the wisest strategy. is there anything he can do. we are i were the wisest strategy. is there j anything he can do. we are where were the wisest strategy. is there i anything he can do. we are where we are, he said them. you anything he can do. we are where we are, he said them.— are, he said them. you need to treat the electorate _ are, he said them. you need to treat the electorate more _ are, he said them. you need to treat the electorate more seriously. in - the electorate more seriously. [m what the electorate more seriously. what way? the electorate more seriously. in what way? there _ the electorate more seriously. in what way? there are _ the electorate more seriously. in what way? there are some - the electorate more seriously. in what way? there are some big . the electorate more seriously. in - what way? there are some big issues, low urowth what way? there are some big issues, low growth economy, _ what way? there are some big issues, low growth economy, something - what way? there are some big issues, low growth economy, something liz i low growth economy, something liz truss_ low growth economy, something liz truss focussed _ low growth economy, something liz truss focussed on. _ low growth economy, something liz truss focussed on. the _ low growth economy, something liz truss focussed on. the fact - low growth economy, something liz truss focussed on. the fact that - low growth economy, something liz truss focussed on. the fact that we| truss focussed on. the fact that we are not— truss focussed on. the fact that we are not building _ truss focussed on. the fact that we are not building houses, _ truss focussed on. the fact that we are not building houses, the - are not building houses, the problems— are not building houses, the problems in_ are not building houses, the problems in the _ are not building houses, the problems in the nhs. -
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are not building houses, the problems in the nhs. i- are not building houses, the�* problems in the nhs. i think are not building houses, the - problems in the nhs. i think the country— problems in the nhs. i think the country are _ problems in the nhs. i think the country are ready _ problems in the nhs. i think the country are ready not _ problems in the nhs. i think the country are ready not for - problems in the nhs. i think the country are ready not for little . country are ready not for little pledges — country are ready not for little pledges that _ country are ready not for little pledges that are met - country are ready not for little - pledges that are met technically or not. �* , , w the not. are they little pledges? they are not a big _ not. are they little pledges? they are not a big argument _ not. are they little pledges? they are not a big argument about - not. are they little pledges? they are not a big argument about the| are not a big argument about the direction — are not a big argument about the direction of — are not a big argument about the direction of the _ are not a big argument about the direction of the country. - are not a big argument about the direction of the country. he - are not a big argument about the direction of the country.- direction of the country. he has onl had direction of the country. he has only had 18 _ direction of the country. he has only had 18 months. _ direction of the country. he has only had 18 months. you - direction of the country. he has only had 18 months. you can i direction of the country. he has i only had 18 months. you can have a fireside chat — only had 18 months. you can have a fireside chat with _ only had 18 months. you can have a fireside chat with the _ only had 18 months. you can have a fireside chat with the nation - only had 18 months. you can have a fireside chat with the nation about i fireside chat with the nation about the lrig _ fireside chat with the nation about the big problems _ fireside chat with the nation about the big problems and _ fireside chat with the nation about the big problems and looking - fireside chat with the nation about the big problems and looking at. fireside chat with the nation about. the big problems and looking at the sacrifices _ the big problems and looking at the sacrifices that— the big problems and looking at the sacrifices that will— the big problems and looking at the sacrifices that will be _ the big problems and looking at the sacrifices that will be necessary. . sacrifices that will be necessary. do you _ sacrifices that will be necessary. do you think _ sacrifices that will be necessary. do you think the _ sacrifices that will be necessary. do you think the nation - sacrifices that will be necessary. do you think the nation do - sacrifices that will be necessary. do you think the nation- sacrifices that will be necessary. do you think the nation do you think the nation would _ do you think the nation do you think the nation would have _ do you think the nation do you think the nation would have been - do you think the nation do you think the nation would have been ready i do you think the nation do you think| the nation would have been ready for a fireside chat after liz truss and bodge? he a fireside chat after liz truss and bod . e? . , a fireside chat after liz truss and bod i e? ., , ., a fireside chat after liz truss and bodge?— and i a fireside chat after liz truss and i bodge?_ and boris bodge? he was having -- and boris johnson. bodge? he was having -- and boris johnson- he — bodge? he was having -- and boris johnson. he was _ bodge? he was having -- and boris johnson. he was having _ bodge? he was having -- and boris johnson. he was having a _ bodge? he was having -- and boris johnson. he was having a fireside i johnson. he was having a fireside chat and i think _ johnson. he was having a fireside chat and i think he _ johnson. he was having a fireside chat and i think he will _ johnson. he was having a fireside chat and i think he will regret - chat and i think he will regret that. he has run out of levers to pull. that. he has run out of levers to ull. . that. he has run out of levers to ull, ., , ., that. he has run out of levers to ull. . , ., ., pull. final question, who will win the general _ pull. final question, who will win the general election? _ pull. final question, who will win the general election? the - pull. final question, who will win the general election? the labour with keir starmer— the general election? the labour with keir starmer in _ the general election? the labour with keir starmer in a _ the general election? the labour with keir starmer in a majority i with keir starmer in a majority government. but hopefully tim will -et a government. but hopefully tim will get a tierage for that stun —— peerage _ get a tierage for that stun —— peerage for that stunning performance. the resignation honours~ _
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performance. the resignation honours. abs performance. the resignation honours. . ., ., ., , performance. the resignation| honours-— lt performance. the resignation honours. . ., ., , it looks honours. a labour ma'ority. it looks that wa , honours. a labour ma'ority. it looks that way. but— honours. a labour ma'ority. it looks that way. but we _ honours. a labour majority. it looks that way, but we have _ honours. a labour majority. it looks that way, but we have been - honours. a labour majority. it looks that way, but we have been wrong l honours. a labour majority. it looks| that way, but we have been wrong in predictions again. you remember 2015 everyone thought the tories would lose and they didn't.— what's going on at europe's largest nuclear power station — zaporizhzhia in ukraine? tonight the ukrainian army has posted on its telegram channel a warning of a possible attack on the plant which was taken over by russian soldiers in march last year. they say "foreign objects similar to explosive devices" have been placed on the roof of the plant. meanwhile a russian news agency has reported that tomorrow kyiv is going to attack the power plant with "high—precision weapons and kamikaze drones". according to ukrainian intelligence, russian workers have been told to leave the plant by wednesday. tomorrow. and tonight — president zelensky has warned russia that the world sees that moscow is the only source of danger and is ready to react. we'll get live reaction in a moment to the latest. first here's emir.
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europe's largest nuclear plant. on the banks on the dnipro river. on russian occupied land, technicians work at gun point. one is in touch with those inside.— with those inside. translation: there is about _ with those inside. translation: there is about 3,000 _ with those inside. translation: there is about 3,000 ukrainian l there is about 3,000 ukrainian workers and 200 russians. the conditions are difficult. the workers can't move around the plant freely. even to areas where they should be able to access. iartul’ith freely. even to areas where they should be able to access. with the totential should be able to access. with the potential to _ should be able to access. with the potential to leak _ should be able to access. with the potential to leak radioactive - should be able to access. with the| potential to leak radioactive waste, the plant has been a source of worry. now ukrainian authorities claim by tomorrow all russians will be evacuated from the plant, which they have mined.—
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they have mined. translation: russia must understand _ they have mined. translation: russia must understand the _ they have mined. translation: russia must understand the world _ they have mined. translation: russia must understand the world see - they have mined. translation: russia must understand the world see what - must understand the world see what is scenarios terrorists are preparing for. radiation is a threat to everyone and a nuclear power plant must be protected. fin to everyone and a nuclear power plant must be protected. on russian state tv an advisor— plant must be protected. on russian state tv an advisor accused - plant must be protected. on russian state tv an advisor accused kyiv - plant must be protected. on russian state tv an advisor accused kyiv of l state tv an advisor accused kyiv of planning an attack on the plant. translation: we received information that on— translation: we received information that onjuly 5th translation: we received information that on july 5th at night the ukrainian army will try to attack the zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant — the zaporizhzhia nuclear power lant, ~' ., ., the zaporizhzhia nuclear power lant. ~' ., ., . plant. ukrainian intelligence has been ritht plant. ukrainian intelligence has been right before, _ plant. ukrainian intelligence has been right before, they - plant. ukrainian intelligence has been right before, they were - plant. ukrainian intelligence has. been right before, they were right about— been right before, they were right about russia _ been right before, they were right about russia mining _ been right before, they were right about russia mining the dam - been right before, they were right about russia mining the dam and| been right before, they were right- about russia mining the dam and that was then— about russia mining the dam and that was then blown— about russia mining the dam and that was then blown up. _ about russia mining the dam and that was then blown up. it _ about russia mining the dam and that was then blown up. it is _ about russia mining the dam and that was then blown up. it is six _ about russia mining the dam and that was then blown up. it is six massive i was then blown up. it is six massive reactors, _ was then blown up. it is six massive reactors, they're _ was then blown up. it is six massive reactors, they're ticking _ was then blown up. it is six massive reactors, they're ticking over. - reactors, they're ticking over. messing — reactors, they're ticking over. messing around _ reactors, they're ticking over. messing around with - reactors, they're ticking over. messing around with a - reactors, they're ticking over. | messing around with a nuclear reactors, they're ticking over. - messing around with a nuclear power station _ messing around with a nuclear power station is _ messing around with a nuclear power station is not — messing around with a nuclear power station is not something _ messing around with a nuclear power station is not something you - messing around with a nuclear power station is not something you would i station is not something you would want to— station is not something you would want to happen _ station is not something you would want to happen. on _ station is not something you would want to happen-— station is not something you would want to happen. on the other side of the front line. _ want to happen. on the other side of the front line, thousands _ want to happen. on the other side of the front line, thousands of- the front line, thousands of ukrainians live in the area. they're
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no stranger to cry cease. and some have had no water since the dam was destroyed in june. have had no water since the dam was destroyed injune. how far are you from the zaporizhzhia power plant? it is about, the nuclear power plant is about 25 kilometres. i know that more than 20 or 30% of the city evacuated. but we have refugees from occupied territories. we have emergency bags. we have local news. and social media channels that inform us how to prepare. what should we collect. what should we arrange. we have air alarms, maybe every hour and now we are talking and the airalarm every hour and now we are talking and the air alarm is sounding out of my house. and we don't know what air alarm will be the last.—
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alarm will be the last. inside the alant, alarm will be the last. inside the plant. tension — alarm will be the last. inside the plant, tension among _ alarm will be the last. inside the plant, tension among workers i alarm will be the last. inside the plant, tension among workers is| alarm will be the last. inside the - plant, tension among workers isjust as high. plant, tension among workers is 'ust as hith. . ,, . , as high. translation: they live under constant _ as high. translation: they live under constant threat. _ as high. translation: they live under constant threat. i - as high. translation: they live under constant threat. i know - under constant threat. i know several— under constant threat. i know several people killed themselves because — several people killed themselves because they weren't able to live with the — because they weren't able to live with the stress. i'm in constant connection— with the stress. i'm in constant connection with personnel and they say there _ connection with personnel and they say there is— connection with personnel and they say there is no movement of russians from the _ say there is no movement of russians from the station. an say there is no movement of russians from the station.— from the station. an information war is under way. _ from the station. an information war is under way, but _ from the station. an information war is under way, but should _ from the station. an information war is under way, but should we - from the station. an information war is under way, but should we be - is under way, but should we be sceptical of hot air on both sides? entirely. the psychological operations _ entirely. the psychological operations as _ entirely. the psychological operations as we - entirely. the psychological operations as we call - entirely. the psychological operations as we call it, i entirely. the psychologicall operations as we call it, are entirely. the psychological. operations as we call it, are a entirely. the psychological- operations as we call it, are a key part of— operations as we call it, are a key part of warfare _ operations as we call it, are a key part of warfare and _ operations as we call it, are a key part of warfare and this. - operations as we call it, are a keyl part of warfare and this. however, if they— part of warfare and this. however, if they can — part of warfare and this. however, if they can use _ part of warfare and this. however, if they can use zaporizhzhia - part of warfare and this. however, if they can use zaporizhzhia to - part of warfare and this. however, if they can use zaporizhzhia to put| if they can use zaporizhzhia to put the counter — if they can use zaporizhzhia to put the counter offensive _ if they can use zaporizhzhia to put the counter offensive off - if they can use zaporizhzhia to put the counter offensive off kilter, i the counter offensive off kilter, i'm the counter offensive off kilter, l'm sure — the counter offensive off kilter, l'm sure they— the counter offensive off kilter, i'm sure they will— the counter offensive off kilter, i'm sure they will do _ the counter offensive off kilter, i'm sure they will do it. - the counter offensive off kilter, i'm sure they will do it. i- the counter offensive off kilter, | i'm sure they will do it. i cannot inragine — i'm sure they will do it. i cannot imagine anybody— i'm sure they will do it. i cannot imagine anybody be _ i'm sure they will do it. i cannot imagine anybody be so - i'm sure they will do it. i cannot imagine anybody be so evil - i'm sure they will do it. i cannot imagine anybody be so evil to i imagine anybody be so evil to actually — imagine anybody be so evil to actually blow _ imagine anybody be so evil to actually blow up _ imagine anybody be so evil to actually blow up a _ imagine anybody be so evil to actually blow up a nuclear - imagine anybody be so evil to i actually blow up a nuclear power station — actually blow up a nuclear power station but— actually blow up a nuclear power station. but you _ actually blow up a nuclear power station. but you know— actually blow up a nuclear power station. but you know the - actually blow up a nuclear power i station. but you know the russians and putin— station. but you know the russians and putin in— station. but you know the russians and putin in particular— station. but you know the russians and putin in particular keep- station. but you know the russians and putin in particular keep doing i and putin in particular keep doing things— and putin in particular keep doing things that — and putin in particular keep doing things that are _ and putin in particular keep doing things that are unbelievable. - and putin in particular keep doingl things that are unbelievable. until tomorrow, things that are unbelievable. until tomorrow. it _
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things that are unbelievable. until tomorrow, it remains _ things that are unbelievable. until tomorrow, it remains a _ things that are unbelievable. uinitiil tomorrow, it remains a war things that are unbelievable. tomorrow, it remains a war of things that are unbelievable- tomorrow, it remains a war of words, but accidents can happen and in this war, critical infrastructure have become fair game. let's speak now to ukraine's ambassador to the un nuclear watchdog the international atomic energy agency, yevhenii tsymbaliuk. how dangerous is the situation? the situation is very serious. our president is raising this issue in this context with all his partners, president biden, president macron, all of them. the parliament of ukrainejust all of them. the parliament of ukraine just recently adopted and appealed to the un to proceed to bring additional attention to the situation. if bring additional attention to the situation. ., ., , .,
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situation. if an attack happens than what are the _ situation. if an attack happens than what are the consequences? - situation. if an attack happens than | what are the consequences? i'm not situation. if an attack happens than i what are the consequences? i'm not a bit exert what are the consequences? i'm not a big expert in — what are the consequences? i'm not a big expert in radiation _ what are the consequences? i'm not a big expert in radiation or _ what are the consequences? i'm not a big expert in radiation or related - big expert in radiation or related fields but we do not need another chernobyl in europe. that is obvious. and if russia continues with the provocations it could be like this. we believe the international atomic energy agency agency should play its evaluate the situation on the ground and they should strongly be declaring the principles, the seven principles and the violation of russia of his principles and only with this international attention we will hopefully prevent the west development at zaporizhzhia. there have been threats _ development at zaporizhzhia. there have been threats and _ development at zaporizhzhia. there have been threats and concerns before not least when the russians took over the plant last march.
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thankfully nothing has come to pass but do you think that this is different this time? i but do you think that this is different this time?- different this time? i would say that we have — different this time? i would say that we have some _ different this time? i would say that we have some indications. different this time? i would say - that we have some indications aside from those mentioned in your programme, of information and other indications but also we have initially increased campaign of russian propaganda and manipulation. so we know from other cases that usually when they tried to accuse ukraine of doing something allegedly, they are usually preparing to do it themselves. so this is a very worrying thing and if you put together information from the ground and these indications in the ground and these indications in the mass media and social networks, it looks like they are really thinking about something. and only
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international attention and strong international attention and strong international reaction could help us. 50 international reaction could help us, ., international reaction could help us. so you mean leaders of the western world _ us. so you mean leaders of the western world saying _ us. so you mean leaders of the western world saying don't i us. so you mean leaders of the western world saying don't do | us. so you mean leaders of the - western world saying don't do this, president putin orjim in china and india sang hang on a minute please do not do this.— do not do this. absolutely right, it is not do not do this. absolutely right, it is rrot only — do not do this. absolutely right, it is not only those _ do not do this. absolutely right, it is not only those leaders - do not do this. absolutely right, it is not only those leaders who - do not do this. absolutely right, it i is not only those leaders who repeat this all the time but also china and also india. because a nuclear disaster is in the interests of their one or a radiological incident. their one or a radiological incident-— their one or a radiological incident. ., ~' , ., , . their one or a radiological incident. ., ,, , ., , . ., incident. thank you very much for talkint to incident. thank you very much for talking to us _ incident. thank you very much for talking to us this _ incident. thank you very much for talking to us this evening. - why are more boys excluded from school than girls? why do they do less well in exams? why are more men likely to be murdered than women? why is the rate of suicide in men much, much higher than in women. it's because of those questions that caitlin moran, journalist and one of the country's most high profile feminists has written a new book called
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'what about men?�* it's not she says, because she thinks all the concerns and issues women have, are fixed — of course not. but it's time to have a deeper, broader conversation about how men and boys are doing, and answer the question some are asking, has feminism gone too far? in a lot of liberal families that i know, good guardian reading, liberalfamilies, they had teenage boys who were really into andrew tate. and they were like, "i don't understand it. we brought him up to be a feminist. we're a very liberal family. how can this have happened?" and i was like, if you're a 15—year—old boy and you've grown up hearing that the only time that men and boys are talked about is when they're a problem, they're going to be angry, they're going to be scared, and they're going to start looking for the only person who's going, "actually, men are all right." and the only person who's stepped into that vacuum are people like andrew tate, who aren't giving good advice to boys. so i was like, i'm a mum, i'm concerned. i want from the teenage boys what we've given to teenage girls over the last couple of years, hope and positivity and honesty. and taking away shame and guilt and making you feel proud about being a boy.
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your book argues that feminism can help with some of the problems boys and men are facing. how? what's the sort of common ground? the whole point of feminism is it's supposed to be equality between the sexes. so if you look at what's happened in the last hundred and 50 years because of feminism, women's lives have changed immeasurably. 150 years ago, we couldn't own property. you know, we were the property of our fathers and then our husbands. we couldn't go into politics. we couldn't have a job. we couldn't have our own bank account. marital rape was still legal in this country until 1990. we don't doubt for a minute that our lives are better than our mothers and that our daughters' and granddaughters lives will be better than ours. we've taken all these supposedly masculine attributes like power and money and politics, but men haven't come and taken the female attributes, like emotional openness, closeness, being able to work together. but why do you think there isn't a brotherhood in the way that there is a sisterhood? i looked into this. i looked into the history of there were various men's movement that came up at the same time as the women's movements. and really interestingly, one of the things that completely stymied it was homophobia. when men started being open and hugging each other and forming some kind of like properly tender,
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open brotherhood, very often back then in the sixties and seventies, it would be just overturned by people just going, "well, that's a bit gay. i'm not going to touch men!" which is why it's really interesting that in the younger generations now, where boys are more open and do hug each other far more than they did in my generation, it's also a time when homophobia has notably declined. you argue that the patriarchy is screwing over men just as hard as it's screwing over women. who are the men who were screwing over other men? so someone like andrew tate, for instance, is saying that the only way that you can be a happy and secure man, and a successful man, is to be very physically strong and to be very wealthy. this is the only way that you will be respected. you must be ready to chop down a man with your bare hands. and the ladies must love you and you must have a harem of them. that patriarchal notion of what it is to be a man, and just the idea that the thing, that the only thing that can ultimately make you happy as a man is to have power, and power over women. whereas i think all those boys who are depressed and scared and anxious, who are looking to andrew tate
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as a role model, have confused power with empowerment. there are some indisputable facts surrounding men and boys right now, which you talk about in your book. more boys were excluded from school than girls in the latest figures. fewer boys went to uni last year than girls at the same age. the rate of suicide in men is much, much higher than in women. and so it goes on. and when you list those hard facts, is it any wonder that, you will have heard it, and i've heard it, some men and boys saying, you know, feminism's gone too far. look at all the stuff we're having to put up with. they are failing educationally. they are more likely to be prescribed drugs for medicating disruptive behaviour in school. the leading cause of death for men under the age of 50 is still suicide. like, that's a big quest. that's not boring. that's not a little life. the problem that boys and men face now are not little and boring things. that's real life, and that's what i want to try and go, this is the new quest. how can you be a happy, functioning boy and man? pornography is obviously pornography is obviously a massive issue for gen z, a massive issue for gen z, access to it on smartphones whenever access to it on smartphones whenever both boys and girls.
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they want it. they want it. and it's an issue for and it's an issue for both boys and girls. and you talked to a young man who became addicted to it. and i think this is perhaps a concern that so many parents have, accessing that pornography potentially is going to affect relationships in the real world. and that's what you found. the first thing that i learned is i think we think maybe as parents that we have the conversation about pornography when they go to secondary school at 11 or 12, and that still feels young. but you're like, i'm going to be on the front foot, you know, big school, big boys like big phones. they're looking for it at seven, eight, nine. your child's view of pornography is going to be absolutely predicated by the naughtiest kid in school.
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