it is immoral for oil and it is immoralfor oil and gas companies to be making record profits from this energy crisis on the back of the poorest people and communities, and at a massive cost of the climate. the communities, and at a massive cost of the climate.— of the climate. the reality is the ener: of the climate. the reality is the energy system _ of the climate. the reality is the energy system of— of the climate. the reality is the energy system of today - of the climate. the reality is the l energy system of today continues of the climate. the reality is the - energy system of today continues to desperately use only oil and gas and before _ desperately use only oil and gas and before we _ desperately use only oil and gas and before we are able to let go of that we need _ before we are able to let go of that we need to— before we are able to let go of that we need to make sure that we have developed — we need to make sure that we have developed a new energy systems of the future — good evening, welcome back to the programme. should we drill for more oil and gas? the un security general, antonio guterres, says that would be "economic and moral madness". the chair of shell has told the bbc that scaling back fossil fuel production would be dangerous and irresponsible. joining me on the panel tonight is brian taylor,

also on the programme... pretty sure we know which sidejoe biden is on. he is in south carolina this hour, pitching more money into solar and renewables. how does science respond? we will talk about the role of ai in all that. and whether uk scientists will have a seat at the biggest table. speculation today that britain might be ready to rejoing europe's multi—billion dollar horizon project. brian taylor, former political editor of bbc scotland. he is pro—indepence. maura gillespie, former deputy chief of staff and communications director for congressman adam kinzinger and former adviser to speaker of the house of representatives, john boehner. lets that with this debate over oil and gas production. the boss of energy giant shell says we need to continue to keep on dreaming. in an interview one speaker suggested we still need to discuss because we are not moving fast enough towards

renewable energy. the reality is that the energy system of today continues to desperately need only oil and gas. and before we are able to let go of that, we need to make sure that we have developed a new energy system of the future. and we are not yet, collectively, moving at a pace that requires that to happen. the chief of the un said that it is economic and moral madness to continue to look for new oil and gas. what would you say to him? i disagree with him, respectfully. i think what would be dangerous and irresponsible is actually cutting out the oil and gas production so that the cost of living, as we sawjust last year, starts to shoot up again. not to mention the fact that many countries last year, countries like bangladesh, countries like pakistan, because europe could afford to import lng they took away that lng from those countries and children had to work out a study on the light of candles. i think if we are going to have a transition it needs to be a just transition that doesn't work for one part of the world but needs

to be a globally responsible transition and therefore the voices of all countries needs to count, not just the voices of the few. shell's original plan was to cut their oil production by one to two % every year up to 2030. but they have sold off assets in texas which means they have essentially met that target in one fell swoop. so their new plan is to keep oil production flat until 2030, that's i and half million barrels a day — while at the same time increasing gas production, particularly lng, which of course became much sought after, following the invasion of ukraine. currently shell spends four times more on fossil fuel production than on low carbon technology. so, moura, are they getting the balance right? he says, look, if we could oil and gas production we are going to see a spike in prices for the winter that we saw last year and that will have a devastating effect on worldwide economies. here that will have a devastating effect on worldwide economies.- that will have a devastating effect on worldwide economies. here in the

us, i on worldwide economies. here in the us, i would — on worldwide economies. here in the us. i would say _ on worldwide economies. here in the us, i would say oil— on worldwide economies. here in the us, i would say oil and _ on worldwide economies. here in the us, i would say oil and gas _ us, i would say oil and gas production is still up, it is still booming _ production is still up, it is still booming. we have also balance that out with _ booming. we have also balance that out with solar and wind tax credits that have — out with solar and wind tax credits that have been a boon to our green energy— that have been a boon to our green energy economy. so there is definitely a balance to be struck here _ definitely a balance to be struck here and — definitely a balance to be struck here and i'm not sure if that is entirely— here and i'm not sure if that is entirely what the plan that was put out by _ entirely what the plan that was put out by shell is going to achieve. but i _ out by shell is going to achieve. but i think— out by shell is going to achieve. but i think it is also important to remember— but i think it is also important to remember that not every country in the world _ remember that not every country in the world has the infrastructure to 'ust the world has the infrastructure to just dive _ the world has the infrastructure to just dive right into green energy and energy—efficient programmes. so we need _ and energy—efficient programmes. so we need to— and energy—efficient programmes. so we need to be conscious of that as he had _ we need to be conscious of that as he had mentioned.— we need to be conscious of that as he had mentioned. what he doesn't seak he had mentioned. what he doesn't speak about — he had mentioned. what he doesn't speak about in _ he had mentioned. what he doesn't speak about in this _ he had mentioned. what he doesn't speak about in this interview - he had mentioned. what he doesn't speak about in this interview is - he had mentioned. what he doesn't speak about in this interview is the | speak about in this interview is the risk of producing far more oil and gas then we can actually earn, given the neck to see rare targets. so there have been reports that already there have been reports that already there is something like $14 trillion of infrastructure property investment, what they call stranded assets, whether values have fallen so steeply that it is going to have to be written off. so why would you

continue to drill oil and gas in that environment?— continue to drill oil and gas in that environment? again, i think he is lookin: that environment? again, i think he is looking at — that environment? again, i think he is looking at countries _ that environment? again, i think he is looking at countries that - that environment? again, i think he is looking at countries that don't - is looking at countries that don't have the infrastructure and are still purchasing. a lot of it comes down to money. it is a very large moneymaking machine and it takes time to wean that off.— time to wean that off. obviously, factorin: time to wean that off. obviously, factoring into _ time to wean that off. obviously, factoring into this _ time to wean that off. obviously, factoring into this is _ time to wean that off. obviously, factoring into this is the - time to wean that off. obviously, factoring into this is the climate i factoring into this is the climate debate. we've got some of the hottest temperatures on record, the heat dome sitting of large parts of the united states at the moment, in fact, monday was the hottest day ever recorded globally. can we continue to burn oil and gas? it is a moral debate which the un wants us to engage with. a moral debate which the un wants us to engage with-— to engage with. yes, absolutely. we need to be looking _ to engage with. yes, absolutely. we need to be looking at _ to engage with. yes, absolutely. we need to be looking at clean - to engage with. yes, absolutely. we need to be looking at clean energy l need to be looking at clean energy sources and energy efficient means. again, i mention some of the solar and wind, there are other means to do so, and it is a very hot here in newjersey right now, i can tell you that. we saw with the canadian

wildfires that it will continue for the summer. these are all impacts of climate change and we need to get our heads around it because while it is not happening it is not doing us any favours and it is not helping our environment to hell. brute any favours and it is not helping our environment to hell. we have brian taylor _ our environment to hell. we have brian taylor who _ our environment to hell. we have brian taylor who is _ our environment to hell. we have brian taylor who is with _ our environment to hell. we have brian taylor who is with us. - our environment to hell. we have j brian taylor who is with us. there are implications from our economy in what the boss of shell is telling us, particularly since they are one of the biggest listed companies in the uk, but he is saying because we have changing windfall taxes, it is becoming harder and harder to invest in uk oil and gas and in fact he has threatened in this bbc interview to move the company is to new york. he is obviously making a very strong pay for— is obviously making a very strong pay for the — is obviously making a very strong pay for the maintenance of oil and -as pay for the maintenance of oil and gas in _ pay for the maintenance of oil and gas in the — pay for the maintenance of oil and gas in the short term. this is an incredibly— gas in the short term. this is an incredibly difficult conundrum and incredibly difficult conundrum and incredibly difficult conundrum and incredibly difficult dilemma for the uk and _ incredibly difficult dilemma for the uk and for many other countries that are to _ uk and for many other countries that are to some — uk and for many other countries that are to some extent dependent on oil and gas _ are to some extent dependent on oil and gas from the likes of russia and the middle _ and gas from the likes of russia and the middle east. 0n the one hand, there _ the middle east. 0n the one hand, there is— the middle east. 0n the one hand, there is a — the middle east. 0n the one hand, there is a dry for renewables for environmental reasons but there is

also the _ environmental reasons but there is also the dry— environmental reasons but there is also the dry for the reasons of lessening _ also the dry for the reasons of lessening the dependence on russia for gas _ lessening the dependence on russia for gas and the middle east for oil. but at _ for gas and the middle east for oil. but at the — for gas and the middle east for oil. but at the same time, if you rush and make — but at the same time, if you rush and make that rush to quickly the possibility— and make that rush to quickly the possibility is that in the interim you will— possibility is that in the interim you will increase your problems because — you will increase your problems because you would have that transitional period. the counterargument to that from scientists and environmentalists and from others advocating change is that britain and the others have to drive _ that britain and the others have to drive towards renewables, otherwise there will— drive towards renewables, otherwise there will always be the tendency to slack and _ there will always be the tendency to slack and slightly go back. it is particularly poignant and relevant in scotland, with the north sea oil and gas _ in scotland, with the north sea oil and gas fields, there has been a very substantial debate in scotland. only today the scottish greens basically said that no new oil and a-s basically said that no new oil and gas fields — basically said that no new oil and gas fields. they said they would honour— gas fields. they said they would honour the existing ones and that is causing _ honour the existing ones and that is causing a _ honour the existing ones and that is causing a big political debate in

scotland — causing a big political debate in scotland. the snp used the trumpet that it _ scotland. the snp used the trumpet that it is _ scotland. the snp used the trumpet that it is scotland's oil. we are moving — that it is scotland's oil. we are moving railway of that and talking about _ moving railway of that and talking about a _ moving railway of that and talking about a climate crisis, moving towards — about a climate crisis, moving towards the idea of moving towards renewables. and looking for what they call— renewables. and looking for what they call a — renewables. and looking for what they call a just transition. the question— they call a just transition. the question is, how long is thatjust transition — question is, how long is thatjust transition going to be? i question is, how long is that 'ust transition going to be?�* question is, how long is that 'ust transition going to be? i was 'ust sa in: transition going to be? i was 'ust saying tomorrow i transition going to be? i was 'ust saying tomorrow that i transition going to be? i was 'ust saying tomorrow that shell h transition going to be? i wasjust i saying tomorrow that shell spends four times more drilling oil and gas thanit four times more drilling oil and gas than it spends on renewables. the trouble is that governments are going to have to get courageous, had there? here we have the chair shall saying that if you don't play by their rules they are going to move everything to new york. the campaigners will say that they should be taxed more so that they are forced to put more emphasis on renewals. . , are forced to put more emphasis on renewals. ., , ., ., _, renewals. that is another conundrum for the uk government. _ renewals. that is another conundrum for the uk government. it _ renewals. that is another conundrum for the uk government. it may - renewals. that is another conundrum for the uk government. it may be . for the uk government. it may be virtuous _ for the uk government. it may be virtuous but not yet. this debate has been — virtuous but not yet. this debate has been going on for quite some time _ has been going on for quite some time but — has been going on for quite some time but it— has been going on for quite some time but it is reaching a crisis because — time but it is reaching a crisis because there are the fields in the know— because there are the fields in the know sea — because there are the fields in the know sea that are still capable of being _ know sea that are still capable of being developed and they are becoming more and more imaginable and more _ becoming more and more imaginable and more and more difficult.

requiring more investment in terms of return _ requiring more investment in terms of return. as i say, in scotland with _ of return. as i say, in scotland with a — of return. as i say, in scotland with a scottish greens are saying to 'ust with a scottish greens are saying to just abandon it, leave the lot. that is fine _ just abandon it, leave the lot. that is fine and — just abandon it, leave the lot. that is fine and i— just abandon it, leave the lot. that is fine and i understand the perspective from an environmental perspective from an environmental perspective but if you are seeing in aberdeen— perspective but if you are seeing in aberdeen where there are thousands ofjobs _ aberdeen where there are thousands ofjobs dependent upon oil and gas, if you _ ofjobs dependent upon oil and gas, if you are _ ofjobs dependent upon oil and gas, if you are in — ofjobs dependent upon oil and gas, if you are in orkney or shetland, and it— if you are in orkney or shetland, and it doesn't seem such a smart idea _ and it doesn't seem such a smart idea. the snp are a little bit fence sitting _ idea. the snp are a little bit fence sitting on— idea. the snp are a little bit fence sitting on this one because of those jobs _ sitting on this one because of those jobs but— sitting on this one because of those jobs. but they are under the uk government, the uk parties recognise that if— government, the uk parties recognise that if you _ government, the uk parties recognise that if you are to have a drive towards — that if you are to have a drive towards renewables and one understands that politically and environmentally, then the issue there _ environmentally, then the issue there is— environmentally, then the issue there is a — environmentally, then the issue there is a batch transition. and if you look— there is a batch transition. and if you look at— there is a batch transition. and if you look at what they shall bossy saying. _ you look at what they shall bossy saying, he's actually talking about the transition. he is defending the interests _ the transition. he is defending the interests of his own company. he is defending _ interests of his own company. he is defending the interests of the uk and the _ defending the interests of the uk and the wider sense. those who criticise — and the wider sense. those who criticise that, the un secretary—general said we have to grasp— secretary—general said we have to grasp this — secretary—general said we have to grasp this and go for it. they are

saying _ grasp this and go for it. they are saying in— grasp this and go for it. they are saying in some ways that we are making — saying in some ways that we are making it — saying in some ways that we are making it tough for ourselves, make it tough— making it tough for ourselves, make it tough ourselves to force the move to renewables. i can adjust the final— to renewables. i can adjust the final point— to renewables. i can adjust the final point before we move on. as brian— final point before we move on. as brian says. — final point before we move on. as brian says, the final point before we move on. as brian says.— final point before we move on. as brian sa s, ,, . ., , , ., , brian says, the secretary general is sa in: we brian says, the secretary general is saying we need _ brian says, the secretary general is saying we need to _ brian says, the secretary general is saying we need to move _ brian says, the secretary general is saying we need to move on - brian says, the secretary general is saying we need to move on and - brian says, the secretary general is saying we need to move on and you could look at countries like pakistan or bangladesh were hit really hard by the rising price of gas last year and they were having to work by candlelight because they couldn't afford the supplies of lng. the irony here is that renewable energy is far cheaper than laying gas networks, and so there needs to be encouragement if collectively we need to go much quicker towards renewables, there needs to be more emphasis on helping developing nations to get there?— nations to get there? there certainly — nations to get there? there certainly needs _ nations to get there? there certainly needs to - nations to get there? there certainly needs to be - nations to get there? there certainly needs to be an - nations to get there? there - certainly needs to be an emphasis on renewable energy. when i worked for congressman king zynga, one of the things that we introduce as far as legislation was to encourage the eu to stop buying from russia but also notjust to stop buying from russia but also not just that, to stop buying from russia but also notjust that, but to stop buying from russia but also not just that, but to to stop buying from russia but also notjust that, but to have a security and a more diverse energy

independence. and i think that is one of the biggest issues here. it is the diversification of our energy sources. we is the diversification of our energy sources. ~ . is the diversification of our energy sources. . ., ., ., , sources. we are a global energy dependent _ sources. we are a global energy dependent world _ sources. we are a global energy dependent world and _ sources. we are a global energy dependent world and so - sources. we are a global energy| dependent world and so supplies sources. we are a global energy - dependent world and so supplies come from all different directions. we should talk then tonight about news from the gulf of oman because there is reports that iran's revolutionary guard has seized a commercial tank and it was going through the goal. iran does from time to time, intercept smaller tankers, those it suspects of smuggling oil, but just yesterday the us navy was forced to intervene, when iranian ships tried to seize two commercial oil tankers which were sailing in international waters. the us said the iranian ships had no reason to be there or approach the tankers except to seize them. the gulf of oman of course is an important route for global shipping. it does coincide this with calls from the uk and others for tighter sanctions on iran.

do you think this is a response to that? , ~ do you think this is a response to that? , ,, ., , ,., , ., that? yes. ithink, absolutely. iran is workin: that? yes. ithink, absolutely. iran is working hand-in-hand _ that? yes. ithink, absolutely. iran is working hand-in-hand with - that? yes. ithink, absolutely. iran i is working hand-in-hand with russia is working hand—in—hand with russia and again the tighter sanctions we put on russia, especially in terms of energy and oil and gas, that is a retaliation, a reaction because of that. they are close allies and to pretend otherwise would be naive. we've been here before, brian, a few years ago, the iranians were boarding tankers and it can get quite messy. it has real imprecations notjust for oil travel imprecations not just for oil travel through imprecations notjust for oil travel through the gulf but also for all sorts of other supplies? bond through the gulf but also for all sorts of other supplies? and it's also a political _ sorts of other supplies? and it's also a political dispute. - sorts of other supplies? and it's also a political dispute. there i sorts of other supplies? and it's also a political dispute. there isj sorts of other supplies? and it's i also a political dispute. there is a political— also a political dispute. there is a political discourse over what is the best way— political discourse over what is the best way to approach the issue of iran best way to approach the issue of iran and — best way to approach the issue of iran and the issue of russia, whether— iran and the issue of russia, whether sanctions are effective or whether— whether sanctions are effective or whether they are better targeted upon _ whether they are better targeted upon for— whether they are better targeted upon for example globally wealthy individuals rather than targeting the industries and therefore perhaps

affecting _ the industries and therefore perhaps affecting the population on the ground — affecting the population on the ground of iran and russia. it is an extremely— ground of iran and russia. it is an extremely difficult decision for the uk government and others to take. a decision— uk government and others to take. a decision in— uk government and others to take. a decision in regards to sanctions. when _ decision in regards to sanctions. when you — decision in regards to sanctions. when you have episodes like this, it seems _ when you have episodes like this, it seems to— when you have episodes like this, it seems to be — when you have episodes like this, it seems to be almost pulling the beard of the _ seems to be almost pulling the beard of the west, tweaking the nose of the west. — of the west, tweaking the nose of the west, and challenging some sort of response. the west, and challenging some sort of response-— of response. let's talk a little bit more about _ of response. let's talk a little bit more about renewables - of response. let's talk a little bit more about renewables because| of response. let's talk a little bit - more about renewables because there are quite a few senior figures in the uk economy who perceive a significant threat from joe biden's climate incentives. the latest warning has come from lord richard harrington who is leading a review for the chancellorjeremy hunt ahead of the autum budget — on how to boost foreign direct investment. that challenge that is posed byjoe biden's subsidy regime is on full view today, in the state of south carolina. the president in the past few hours has been setting out another $60 million in investment,

this time, in solar—energy which he says will create 1,800 newjobs across the us, including 600 jobs in south carolina. earlier we heard the leadership of enphase say that $60 million they are investing here. that is 1800 jobs across the country. that's 600 permanentjobs right here in south carolina, all the direct result of the so—called inflation reduction act that we wrote in the past. that's the legislation of the past, where so much money is coming in to make all of this happen. either way, parenthetically i want you to hear about the deficit... i cut the deficit 1.7 trillion dollars in two years, nobody has ever done that. i cut the debt 1.7... this generates income, it generates growth. enphase first commercialised

the component that converts solar energy into electricity. job creation is the centrepiece of joe biden's re—election campaign. his investment in green energy might be decried on the right in the united states but it is certainly feared within europe. that united states but it is certainly feared within europe. that seems to be the case- — feared within europe. that seems to be the case- l _ feared within europe. that seems to be the case. i think _ feared within europe. that seems to be the case. i think the _ feared within europe. that seems to be the case. i think the european i be the case. i think the european commissioner has certainly come around to realising the need to have around to realising the need to have a more robust green energy plan. but yes, the united states is ahead in that regard and the president is tallying his infrastructure deal that he signed last year. he has made some brilliant and important impacts that republicans are even touting, despite many of them not voting for it. my former boss did, but it certainly is going to be had on the uk and the eu to step up and beat us where we are. flan

on the uk and the eu to step up and beat us where we are.— on the uk and the eu to step up and beat us where we are. can zynga slur to lay spotted — beat us where we are. can zynga slur to lay spotted the _ beat us where we are. can zynga slur to lay spotted the climate _ beat us where we are. can zynga slur to lay spotted the climate challenge i to lay spotted the climate challenge and that they needed some talk in terms of renewables. does it have a plan for the future can be passed cutting taxes?— cutting taxes? cutting taxes is auoin to cutting taxes? cutting taxes is going to be — cutting taxes? cutting taxes is going to be a _ cutting taxes? cutting taxes is going to be a big _ cutting taxes? cutting taxes is going to be a big part - cutting taxes? cutting taxes is going to be a big part of - cutting taxes? cutting taxes is going to be a big part of it, - going to be a big part of it, obviously economy is their main focus and as we look to hedge fund 24, they are really focused on what is impacting manufacturers, what is impacting farmers and what is impacting farmers and what is impacting families and their pockets. with inflation issues and with rising gusts across the board, thatis with rising gusts across the board, that is really what they're focuses. i wouldn't be able to tell you honestly want their plan is to combat climate change. there is a lot about lord _ combat climate change. there is a lot about lord herrington's - combat climate change. there is a lot about lord herrington's plan i combat climate change. there is a lot about lord herrington's plan inj lot about lord herrington's plan in the financial times today. he thinks the financial times today. he thinks the should have an industrial strategy. what he says is that capitalism is involved in such a way that governments are getting actively involved in the sectors that they wish to develop, whether that they wish to develop, whether thatis that they wish to develop, whether that is creative industries, whether it is life sciences, whether it is

al, we can't ignore that many ai, we can't ignore that many governments around the world are now pumping subsidies into those fields, whichever field pumping subsidies into those fields, whicheverfield it pumping subsidies into those fields, whichever field it is, pumping subsidies into those fields, whicheverfield it is, in order to win the game. his whichever field it is, in order to win the game-— whichever field it is, in order to win the game. his background is in favour of intervention _ win the game. his background is in favour of intervention seen - win the game. his background is in favour of intervention seen as - favour of intervention seen as suspect— favour of intervention seen as suspect by those on the right. you are making — suspect by those on the right. you are making the point that he is and 'ust are making the point that he is and just arguing for an individual programme, he is arguing that capitalism itself has evolved into a different _ capitalism itself has evolved into a different phase where there will be a requirement for big intervention by big _ a requirement for big intervention by big government and he is arguing for an— by big government and he is arguing for an industrial strategy that matches _ for an industrial strategy that matches that. perhaps particularly aping _ matches that. perhaps particularly aping their proposals that are coming — aping their proposals that are coming from president biden. this is going _ coming from president biden. this is going to _ coming from president biden. this is going to be _ coming from president biden. this is going to be a really tough one for rishi _ going to be a really tough one for rishi sunak, if you go back to the admittedly very brief part on trust they were — admittedly very brief part on trust they were arguing for the opposite. they were — they were arguing for the opposite. they were arguing for non—intervention and freedom for their— non—intervention and freedom for their market to determine its own

approach — their market to determine its own approach. rishi sunak has to decide whether— approach. rishi sunak has to decide whether he... he probably is intuitively _ whether he... he probably is intuitively on that wing, if you like. — intuitively on that wing, if you like. of— intuitively on that wing, if you like, of the conservative party but there _ like, of the conservative party but there will— like, of the conservative party but there will be other arguments coming from the _ there will be other arguments coming from the other side. perhaps even coming _ from the other side. perhaps even coming from the chancellorjeremy hunt that— coming from the chancellorjeremy hunt that would move more towards an interventionist position. i would doubt _ interventionist position. i would doubt that he is very comfortable with grand strategies and grand designs— with grand strategies and grand designs that the prime minister that is... designs that the prime minister that is~~~ i_ designs that the prime minister that ism i would — designs that the prime minister that is... i would doubt he is very comfortable with it. but lord harrington is obliged and has been given— harrington is obliged and has been given the _ harrington is obliged and has been given the task of drawing up a review— given the task of drawing up a review of— given the task of drawing up a review of the existing industrial strategies and presenting that to the chancellor. how strategies and presenting that to the chancellor.— the chancellor. how do you do it anew unilaterally? _ the chancellor. how do you do it anew unilaterally? compare - the chancellor. how do you do it anew unilaterally? compare the| anew unilaterally? compare the figures, the 360 billion thatjoe biden his pumping into the inflation reduction act, the uk... look at labour... they had a green energy plan, 28 billion a year and they had to scale it back because the uk doesn't have the money. in a doesn't have the money. in a comparable _ doesn't have the money. in a comparable way _

doesn't have the money. in a comparable way it _ doesn't have the money. in a comparable way it is - doesn't have the money. in a comparable way it is the support for other— comparable way it is the support for other nations facing problems with the move — other nations facing problems with the move towards renewables. there is some _ the move towards renewables. there is some speculation that the uk's contribution to that will be scaled down _ contribution to that will be scaled down or— contribution to that will be scaled down or even cut altogether and lord harrington _ down or even cut altogether and lord harrington is also saying that it is not the _ harrington is also saying that it is not the case that the uk would match pound _ not the case that the uk would match pound for— not the case that the uk would match pound for dollar with the us plan. but he _ pound for dollar with the us plan. but he is — pound for dollar with the us plan. but he is advocating is different sort of — but he is advocating is different sort of approach to the relationship between _ sort of approach to the relationship between government and the market economy, _ between government and the market economy, certainly different from liz truss. — economy, certainly different from liz truss, and probably also different _ liz truss, and probably also different from where the prime ministers — different from where the prime ministers would frankly be most comfortable. but that is of the proposal— comfortable. but that is of the proposal that will be put to the chancellor, i guess in the autumn. it chancellor, i guess in the autumn. it will— chancellor, i guess in the autumn. it will be _ chancellor, i guess in the autumn. it will be up — chancellor, i guess in the autumn. it will be up to the chancellor and of course — it will be up to the chancellor and of course the prime minister to decide — of course the prime minister to decide which where britain goes, although— decide which where britain goes, although you rightly say, it will be whatever— although you rightly say, it will be whatever happens it will be at a much _ whatever happens it will be at a much lower level than that being implemented by president biden. interesting thatjoe biden is in south carolina today because he has been pushing the dnc to put south carolina first in the presidential primary calendar, and we are a member the part that they played in

2020. around the world and across the uk, this is bbc news. let's look at some of the other stories making headlines today. an eight—year—old girl has been killed and 15 people injured when a land rover crashed into a primary school in wimbledon in south—west london. it's a girls�* school for children aged between 4—11. ten people were taken to hospital. a woman in her 40s has been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving. a man has been found guilty of murdering elle edwards, who was shot on christmas eve outside a pub in wirral, on merseyside. ms edwards was an innocent bystander when connor chapman opened fire with a sub—machine gun, as he targeted two men in the culmination of a gang feud. the beautician was enjoying a night out with friends. the labour leader, sir keir starmer, has set out plans to reform the education system, promising to smash what he called the "class ceiling". his speech in kent was briefly interrupted by environmental protesters. sir keir said primary schools would be funded to improve pupils�*

communication skills, and he promised to tackle the "snobbery" surrounding vocational training. there's been lots of speculation today that the uk has negotiated with brussels to join the eu research programme. britain formally left the scheme when it quit the eu in january of 2020 and left the scheme when it quit the eu injanuary of 2020 and in negotiations to re—associate as a third country stalled amid the bitter rally ever post—brexit trade rule in northern ireland. if he signs it then it is expected that that would be unveiled on tuesday when the pm is due to meet the european commission representative. will he sign it? the uk was working on plan b, an alternative to horizon europe called pioneer. £14.6 billion

spread over seven years. but the scientists have argued that it doesn't compare to the scale and ambition of horizon which has £85 billion at its disposal, calling for the country to return to the scheme. are you in the camp of rejoining horizon or do you think pioneer could have worked? i horizon or do you think pioneer could have worked?— horizon or do you think pioneer could have worked? i think almost eve one could have worked? i think almost everyone in _ could have worked? i think almost everyone in the — could have worked? i think almost everyone in the scientific - could have worked? i think almost l everyone in the scientific community wants to see the uk we associate. that doesn't mean that we can also do... pursue some of the good ideas that have been developed for the pioneer process for collaboration with other parts of the world but the opportunities that are afforded to us through horizon to collaborate with members of the european union are huge and currently they constitute as a block our largest group of collaborators. so we need ways of continuing that collaboration beyond us having left the eu. 60% of all scientific papers

in the uk are co—authored with international collaborators. it is a huge part of what makes science on the 21st century successful. our capacity to work with other colleagues in other groups around the world. so it is really important that we have the means to do it. that is what this is about. you would have — that is what this is about. you would have been _ that is what this is about. you would have been listening to our debate tonight about needing to collectively speed up the work on renewables, how difficult it is to work unilaterally on subsidies, gives an example of how science could benefit from joining a project of scale—like horizon? could benefit from joining a pro'ect of scale-like horizon?i could benefit from joining a pro'ect of scale-like horizon? well, horizon is the latest — of scale-like horizon? well, horizon is the latest iteration _ of scale-like horizon? well, horizon is the latest iteration of _ of scale-like horizon? well, horizon is the latest iteration of several - is the latest iteration of several decades of development of mechanisms to allow large groups of european scientists and countries outside the eu to work on joint projects. some of those are big infrastructure projects where it makes sense to

pool resources in order to invest in the big kit that is needed for certain types of science. in other areas it is a matter of linking up the knowledge and capability of multiple labs and multiple groups. we know also in the social sciences around europe to pursue particular problems. within mac to europe there are big challenges that have been identified around climate. all of the big challenges of the moment. it is a mechanism for getting scientist and researchers to work together effectively to tackle those problems. it is an accelerator for us to do the kinds of things that we want to do anyway and in many respects we have been doing even though we have not been associated, but he's been harder to do it without the mechanism in place. you seem to be — without the mechanism in place. you seem to be suggesting in what you are saying then that it would mean a sum of the leading scientists around the world coming here to uk, has brexit and being outside horizon, has not been a disincentive to many of them who might have come here for

research? the of them who might have come here for research? , ., , ., , research? the uk still has a very stron: research? the uk still has a very strong and _ research? the uk still has a very strong and attractive _ research? the uk still has a very strong and attractive research i research? the uk still has a very i strong and attractive research base. we have many leading universities so there is lots of reasons for scientists and researchers to come and collaborate with others and indeed to come and spend periods of their career working here. it is definitely becoming harder outside the eu programmes to do as much of that mobility with colleagues from other eu member states. and i think, yes, it has affected in some respects the attractiveness of the uk as a location for leading scientists who, with some of the european programmes, for example through the european research council cannot take those grants to the uk when they could have done so previously. they will be able to do so when we can associate. taste previously. they will be able to do so when we can associate.- previously. they will be able to do so when we can associate. we are for time. it is so when we can associate. we are for time- it is good _ so when we can associate. we are for time. it is good to _ so when we can associate. we are for time. it is good to talk _ so when we can associate. we are for time. it is good to talk to _ so when we can associate. we are for time. it is good to talk to and - so when we can associate. we are for time. it is good to talk to and we - time. it is good to talk to and we will see whether the premise decides that deal on tuesday. we will be right back, more to come. hello

there. thursday was a better player at wimbledon and for the test at headingley. there was a lot of cloud generally between did see temperatures peaking at 23 degrees. into friday we are tapping into heat and humidity and temperatures may well peak as high as 29 celsius. there were some cloud and rain around and you can see quite clearly where i am talking about on the satellite picture. highs of 29 celsius in one or two areas by the middle of the afternoon. so that means for the tennis at wimbledon that we could see temperatures as high as 27 degrees. it has the potential to be the best on the hottest day of this

season's championship. it will be a similar story as well for the men's ashes. thunderstorms perhaps threatening as we go through the weekend. as we go into friday evening it will be a relatively quiet one, during the early hours of saturday we have this friend pushing in from the south—west but temperatures will not be falling very far, it is going to be a humid night, an uncomfortable night for getting a good night's sleep, particularly in the south—east as temperatures are only as low as 18 or19 temperatures are only as low as 18 or 19 celsius. with that front continuing to move in from the south—west, bumping into that humid air, that has the potential to spark off some sharp thundery downpours. they will drift their way civilly north and east so saturday is not going to be a wash—out by any means, but if you do have outdoor plans it is worth bearing in mind that there could be interruptions with some sharp showers. tap temperatures as we go through saturday are still on the warm side at 20 to 24 degrees, maybe 27 across parts of east anglia and the south—east. we need to keep and the south—east. we need to keep a close eye on sunday, there is a risk of some really sharp thundery

downpours moving up from france, but just where they could appear is still subject to question so keep abreast of the forecast for the second half of the weekend. just to summarise them, come our weekend is going to start off on a humid note, there will be some decent sunny spells around from time to time but also the risk of some sharp and thundery downpours. take care.

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hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching