tv Nicky Campbell BBC News July 7, 2023 9:00am-11:00am BST
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good morning and welcome to the nation's phone in this friday. at ten o'clock, isjust nation's phone in this friday. at ten o'clock, is just stopping sport 0k? right now it is men and muscles, your stories. a bbc investigation has found dangerous muscle—building supplements available online and in shops across the uk. we often focus on fret properly on female body image but male body image less so, it's a rather underreported topic and the often legal and drug fuelled quest for the so—called perfect body, a kind of caricature of masculinity. there is much talk about twitter and threads and social media platforms over the last few days. some of those and others do platform a certain type of male body and certain insidious
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seeds of self—esteem. it is a familiar story, seeds of self—esteem. it is a familiarstory, it seeds of self—esteem. it is a familiar story, it becomes the ideal. it wasn't like this in my day, so what happened? you have the ultra toned love island torso. and massive in young men, proteins, proteins. a lot of men take it forward impulsively and effectively and with dangerous chemical assistance as well. let's hear from you, have you been there, done it, do you do it? tell us about your brother, son, friend. men and muscles, get in touch. and here is the news with richard foster. teachers in england are walking out for the second time this week.
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many schools will be closed because of the strike by members of the national education union over pgy- the school teachers review body is reported to have recommended a rise of 6.5%. police are still questioning a woman about a car crash at a school in wimbledon in which an eight—year—old girl was killed. it happened as pupils at the study preparatory school were holding a garden party to celebrate the end of term. a bbc investigation has found that muscle—building supplements are being sold illegally. they're called selective androgen receptor modulators — or sarms — and are similar to steroids, with dangerous side effects. twitter is considering legal action against meta because of its new app, threads. twitter has accused meta of the "unlawful misappropriation" of its "trade secrets". good morning. these particular drugs we are talking about from this bbc
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investigation, we are broadening the issue to the whole kind of philosophical examination of what is this all about and why do some men have this dangerous quest sometimes? these body enhancing drugs, sarms, selective androgen receptor modulators, mimicking the effects of anabolic steroids which in themselves have to be used with great caution, increasing muscle mass and muscle strength. doctors say they can cause erectile dysfunction, mood swings, liver problems. the whole self—esteem thing and body dysmorphia and male body image, with survey after survey saying, there is one here that says almost three in ten adult men feel anxious because of body image issues. it's about physical health and mental health as well. on the subject of this investigation, these muscle building drugs, known as sarms, they are not approved for
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human consumption. the bbc�*s kash jones carried out undercover filming and found them for sale in shops around the country. the response from three of the stores now. inevitably there is the andrew tate effect as well, no pain, no gain, you are weak and unattractive if you don't muscle up. and like much else, the more extreme it gets the more distance between what you see are and what others see as well. a
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professor is with us, a social psychologist and professor at goldsmiths london. good morning. likewise, doctor francis dasilva, gp and body—builder. his own experience of weight loss, the situation can become an epidemic. and thorrun govind, a spokesperson for the royal pharmaceutical society. a good line—up and it will be better for having you on with your experiences, what you see and think about this. maybe you take these enhancements, so tell us why, what is it all about? tell us about a loved one you might be concerned about as well. doctor francis dasilva, what do you make of the whole phenomenon of people risking a heck of a lot in taking these chemicals to get where they want to get?— they want to get? good morning. thanks for— they want to get? good morning. thanks for having _ they want to get? good morning. thanks for having me. _ they want to get? good morning. thanks for having me. i - they want to get? good morning. thanks for having me. i think-
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they want to get? good morning. thanks for having me. i think it's| they want to get? good morning. | thanks for having me. i think it's a really dangerous situation we are coming across. it's a potential epidemic for the future. we are seeing the early seeds of it being sown now. it is a combination of lots of things. we are seeing young men and men in general online and on social media, it can distort our perception of what is normal, what we think is normal and how it isn't normal. i know it is slightly hypocritical of me because i have done body—building competitions, but they were done from a different mindset. they were to help me get out of a place of mental depression and anxiety and they would help me focus on something, so i had something to achieve and to show to myself i could achieve something. but it was a long process. i think now a lot of people are looking for a quick answer to things. and with quick answers, like steroids and sarms, there is a big side effects and potential risks for the future. it's interesting what you say about
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you having a different mindset. the inevitable questions to be asked about social media, but there has been a bit of a cultural shift here in what young men are aiming for, and aiming at, trying to achieve. why has that happened? i and aiming at, trying to achieve. why has that happened?- and aiming at, trying to achieve. why has that happened? i think it is 'ust the why has that happened? i think it is just the volume _ why has that happened? i think it is just the volume of _ why has that happened? i think it is just the volume of what _ why has that happened? i think it is just the volume of what we - why has that happened? i think it is just the volume of what we see. - why has that happened? i think it is| just the volume of what we see. like you were saying, did it exist in past eras? we had arnold schwarzenegger, sylvester stallone, hollywood icons who were quite muscular in their physique and had the ideal physique then but we were not bombarded with it. you didn't pick up your phone and see image after image of model like physiques going online. and being told this can be achieved in a couple of months with certain things. it gives everyone the opinion that it is achievable when sometimes you have to look at reality and think,
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sometimes things are not fully achievable and certainly not in that timeframe. �* , ., , ., timeframe. let's throw this to professor _ timeframe. let's throw this to professor west. _ timeframe. let's throw this to professor west. it's _ timeframe. let's throw this to professor west. it's an - timeframe. let's throw this to - professor west. it's an interesting avenue to explore.— avenue to explore. thank you for havin: avenue to explore. thank you for having me- _ avenue to explore. thank you for having me. great— avenue to explore. thank you for having me. great to _ avenue to explore. thank you for having me. great to have - avenue to explore. thank you for having me. great to have you - avenue to explore. thank you for l having me. great to have you won. avenue to explore. thank you for i having me. great to have you won. i don't know — having me. great to have you won. i don't know how _ having me. great to have you won. i don't know how far _ having me. great to have you won. i don't know how far you _ having me. great to have you won. i don't know how far you go _ having me. great to have you won. i don't know how far you go back- having me. great to have you won. i don't know how far you go back butl don't know how far you go back but i'm thinking of something francis said there about going back to arnold schwarzenegger and sylvester stallone. sorry to take people back through the mists of time but when i was growing up we wanted to be more than anything david bowie or elvis costello. we are not talking about schwarzenegger or stallone there. jarvis cocker and damon albarn. it is different now so what happened? i have to agree with some of the things— have to agree with some of the things you said, it is different now, _ things you said, it is different now. and _ things you said, it is different now, and things have changed in a way that— now, and things have changed in a way that is worse for men. you mention— way that is worse for men. you mention social media, which has shown_
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mention social media, which has shown to — mention social media, which has shown to be an important influence on men _ shown to be an important influence on men we — shown to be an important influence on men. we had schwarzenegger as far by get _ on men. we had schwarzenegger as far by get at _ on men. we had schwarzenegger as far by get at least the 80s, schwarzenegger is the terminator, walking _ schwarzenegger is the terminator, walking around naked and muscling. but schwarzenegger was an aberration. what has changed now as we have _ aberration. what has changed now as we have a _ aberration. what has changed now as we have a constant barrage of exposure _ we have a constant barrage of exposure to very different and very pumped _ exposure to very different and very pumped up muscular idealised images and it's_ pumped up muscular idealised images and it's not— pumped up muscular idealised images and it's notjust on a big cinema screen — and it's notjust on a big cinema screen or— and it's notjust on a big cinema screen or on— and it's notjust on a big cinema screen or on the television at home. it is screen or on the television at home. it is everyday — screen or on the television at home. it is everyday that we can spend as much _ it is everyday that we can spend as much as— it is everyday that we can spend as much as six— it is everyday that we can spend as much as six hours on our phones. research— much as six hours on our phones. research shows that the more we look at things— research shows that the more we look at things like social media the less we like _ at things like social media the less we like ourselves. it used to be very— we like ourselves. it used to be very much— we like ourselves. it used to be very much a woman's issue. women were _ very much a woman's issue. women were much— very much a woman's issue. women were much worse off than men in terms _ were much worse off than men in terms of— were much worse off than men in terms of body image and body dysmorphia, and they still are. men generally— dysmorphia, and they still are. men generally like their bodies more than women, but we are catching up to them _ than women, but we are catching up to them and — than women, but we are catching up to them and as these things get worse _ to them and as these things get worse and more prevalent, our attitudes— worse and more prevalent, our attitudes towards ourselves get worse _ attitudes towards ourselves get worse as— attitudes towards ourselves get worse as well which is why we are seeing _ worse as well which is why we are seeing a — worse as well which is why we are seeing a rise this issue. to take
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one example, forget about schwarzenegger, take a look at hugh jackman _ schwarzenegger, take a look at hugh jackman. i think he is the poster board _ jackman. i think he is the poster board for— jackman. i think he is the poster board for the way we think men are sunbosed _ board for the way we think men are supposed to look. looking at the early _ supposed to look. looking at the early x—men movies, he is a muscle young _ early x—men movies, he is a muscle young good — early x—men movies, he is a muscle young good looking man, no one can deny _ young good looking man, no one can deny but— young good looking man, no one can deny. but by— young good looking man, no one can deny. but by the later x—men movies, he is covered — deny. but by the later x—men movies, he is covered in veins, constantly oily and _ he is covered in veins, constantly oily and rippling, a super muscular mess _ oily and rippling, a super muscular mess~ he — oily and rippling, a super muscular mess. he looks much better, good for him, mess. he looks much better, good for him. but _ mess. he looks much better, good for him. but it_ mess. he looks much better, good for him. but it is— mess. he looks much better, good for him, but it is clearly less attainable, between the first x—men and last— attainable, between the first x—men and last x—men movie, and he got older— and last x—men movie, and he got older in_ and last x—men movie, and he got older in the — and last x—men movie, and he got older in the middle, so how do we keep— older in the middle, so how do we keep up— older in the middle, so how do we keep up with this kind of change? thats— keep up with this kind of change? that's it — keep up with this kind of change? that's it it— keep up with this kind of change? that's it. it is less attainable or perhaps unattainable or only attainable with chemical assistance. throwing it back to you, francis dasilva, all things in this arena are subjective, but a lot of people will say this is a caricature. you hinted at this already. this is a caricature and it doesn't look
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normal, it doesn't look right, and some people say it might look ridiculous. but that is not what the people who are doing it and taking it to this extreme level think. so there is that dissidents. i it to this extreme level think. so there is that dissidents.- there is that dissidents. i think attractiveness _ there is that dissidents. i think attractiveness is _ there is that dissidents. i think| attractiveness is very subjective and always will be. people find different things attractive. —— so there is that dissidents. arnold made a massive career out of it, became a massive movie star and successful politician and is well renowned now. people look at arnold as a pin—up and example of what can be achieved but as the professor was saying, he is a one in a billion character. achieving that is not likely. descendants. there is also a form of dysmorphia where people don't feel big enough. if arnold
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competed today in body—building he would not be successful. you look at him and think, if he not big enough, how does the average man feel? we would not feel we are muscular or good—looking enough to make that comparison. it is good-looking enough to make that comparison-— comparison. it is all relative. lookinu comparison. it is all relative. looking at — comparison. it is all relative. looking at arnold _ comparison. it is all relative. looking at arnold is - comparison. it is all relative. looking at arnold is now. - comparison. it is all relative. looking at arnold is now. at| comparison. it is all relative. i looking at arnold is now. at the time he seemed to be extraordinary. a text, my partner takes steroids. it is great to hear from you on this. it is a profoundly interesting issue. my partner takes steroids, he issue. my partner takes steroids, he is a pro body—builder. all sorts of medications, cancerand is a pro body—builder. all sorts of medications, cancer and parkinson to control the side effects of the drugs. i'm a medicalstudent control the side effects of the drugs. i'm a medical student and it is scary to watch as i learn about how these drugs function. even scarier is seeing how many very young men take these drugs from 15 years old. girls and boys, or should i say boys and girls, body—building is enormous and the sport and
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culture are getting bigger and bigger. there needs to be regulation. i'm already exposed to many young patients where the side effects are really taking hold. the thoughts and comments we need this morning. thorrun govind, good morning, a community pharmacist. tell us about these drugs.- morning, a community pharmacist. tell us about these drugs. these are a substitute — tell us about these drugs. these are a substitute almost _ tell us about these drugs. these are a substitute almost four _ tell us about these drugs. these are a substitute almost four steroids, i a substitute almost four steroids, people _ a substitute almost four steroids, people are — a substitute almost four steroids, people are using _ a substitute almost four steroids, people are using them _ a substitute almost four steroids, people are using them like - a substitute almost four steroids, people are using them like this. l a substitute almost four steroids, . people are using them like this. but we have _ people are using them like this. but we have heard — people are using them like this. but we have heard of— people are using them like this. but we have heard of the _ people are using them like this. but we have heard of the lengths- people are using them like this. but| we have heard of the lengths people are going _ we have heard of the lengths people are going to— we have heard of the lengths people are going to to — we have heard of the lengths people are going to to achieve _ we have heard of the lengths people are going to to achieve that - we have heard of the lengths people are going to to achieve that perfect. are going to to achieve that perfect body but _ are going to to achieve that perfect body but it— are going to to achieve that perfect body but it doesn't _ are going to to achieve that perfect body but it doesn't come _ are going to to achieve that perfect body but it doesn't come without . body but it doesn't come without risks _ body but it doesn't come without risks you — body but it doesn't come without risks you can— body but it doesn't come without risks. you can end _ body but it doesn't come without risks. you can end up _ body but it doesn't come without risks. you can end up if- body but it doesn't come without risks. you can end up if you - body but it doesn't come without risks. you can end up if you take| risks. you can end up if you take these _ risks. you can end up if you take these with— risks. you can end up if you take these with hormone _ risks. you can end up if you takej these with hormone imbalances, risks. you can end up if you take - these with hormone imbalances, mood swings. _ these with hormone imbalances, mood swings. reduced— these with hormone imbalances, mood swings, reduced libido _ these with hormone imbalances, mood swings, reduced libido stub— these with hormone imbalances, mood swings, reduced libido stub you - swings, reduced libido stub you could _ swings, reduced libido stub you could end — swings, reduced libido stub you could end up _ swings, reduced libido stub you could end up with _ swings, reduced libido stub you could end up with a _ swings, reduced libido stub you could end up with a toxicity, - could end up with a toxicity, testosterone _ could end up with a toxicity, testosterone suppression, l could end up with a toxicity, - testosterone suppression, fertility issues _ testosterone suppression, fertility issues they— testosterone suppression, fertility issues. they increase _ testosterone suppression, fertility issues. they increase bad - issues. they increase bad cholesterol _ issues. they increase bad cholesterol and _ issues. they increase bad cholesterol and decrease | issues. they increase bad - cholesterol and decrease good cholesterol, _ cholesterol and decrease good cholesterol, causing _ cholesterol and decrease good cholesterol, causing an - cholesterol and decrease good i cholesterol, causing an increased risk of— cholesterol, causing an increased risk of cardiovascular— cholesterol, causing an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. - risk of cardiovascular disease. those — risk of cardiovascular disease. those are _ risk of cardiovascular disease. those are just _ risk of cardiovascular disease. those are just the _ risk of cardiovascular disease. those are just the top - risk of cardiovascular disease. those are just the top line - those are just the top line side—effects _
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those are just the top line side—effects that- those are just the top line side—effects that i- those are just the top line side—effects that i could . those are just the top line . side—effects that i could talk about — side—effects that i could talk about we _ side—effects that i could talk about. we could _ side—effects that i could talk about. we could go- side—effects that i could talk about. we could go into - side—effects that i could talk i about. we could go into acne, increased _ about. we could go into acne, increased aggression, - about. we could go into acne, increased aggression, sleep . increased aggression, sleep disturbances. _ increased aggression, sleep disturbances. coming - increased aggression, sleep disturbances. coming back. increased aggression, sleep. disturbances. coming back to increased aggression, sleep - disturbances. coming back to what we have just _ disturbances. coming back to what we have just discussed, _ disturbances. coming back to what we have just discussed, the _ disturbances. coming back to what we have just discussed, the rise - disturbances. coming back to what we have just discussed, the rise of- have just discussed, the rise of social— have just discussed, the rise of social media _ have just discussed, the rise of social media means _ have just discussed, the rise of social media means you - have just discussed, the rise of social media means you are - social media means you are constantly— social media means you are constantly bombarded - social media means you are constantly bombarded with| social media means you are - constantly bombarded with images of what you _ constantly bombarded with images of what you should _ constantly bombarded with images of what you should look _ constantly bombarded with images of what you should look like, _ constantly bombarded with images of what you should look like, what - constantly bombarded with images of what you should look like, what you i what you should look like, what you think— what you should look like, what you think you _ what you should look like, what you think you should _ what you should look like, what you think you should look— what you should look like, what you think you should look like. - what you should look like, what you think you should look like. i- what you should look like, what you think you should look like. i think. think you should look like. i think even _ think you should look like. i think even today— think you should look like. i think even today we _ think you should look like. i think even today we have _ think you should look like. i think even today we have the - think you should look like. i think even today we have the launch i think you should look like. i think even today we have the launch ofj think you should look like. i think. even today we have the launch of a new social — even today we have the launch of a new social media _ even today we have the launch of a new social media network- even today we have the launch of a new social media network lay - even today we have the launch of a new social media network lay slat i new social media network lay slat fittets _ new social media network lay slat fittets -- — new social media network lay slat fittets -- tate _ new social media network lay slat fillets —— late last _ new social media network lay slat fillets —— late last night _ new social media network lay slat fillets —— late last night and - new social media network lay slat fillets —— late last night and this. fillets —— late last night and this morning. — fillets —— late last night and this morning, threads. _ fillets —— late last night and this morning, threads. it's - fillets —— late last night and this morning, threads. it's anotherl fillets —— late last night and this- morning, threads. it's another place for people _ morning, threads. it's another place for people to — morning, threads. it's another place for people to go _ morning, threads. it's another place for people to go i_ morning, threads. it's another place for people to go. i heard _ morning, threads. it's another place for people to go. i heard about - morning, threads. it's another place for people to go. i heard about the l for people to go. i heard about the launch— for people to go. i heard about the launch of— for people to go. i heard about the launch of threads _ for people to go. i heard about the launch of threads i— for people to go. i heard about the launch of threads i was _ for people to go. i heard about the launch of threads i was a - for people to go. i heard about the launch of threads i was a bit - launch of threads i was a bit exhausted _ launch of threads i was a bit exhausted by— launch of threads i was a bit exhausted by the _ launch of threads i was a bit exhausted by the launch - launch of threads i was a bit exhausted by the launch of. launch of threads i was a bit i exhausted by the launch of an additional— exhausted by the launch of an additional social— exhausted by the launch of an additional social media - exhausted by the launch of an . additional social media network. i've additional social media network. i've actually— additional social media network. i've actuallyjoined _ additional social media network. i've actuallyjoined it _ additional social media network. i've actuallyjoined it and - additional social media network. i've actuallyjoined it and it - additional social media network. i've actuallyjoined it and it is. i've actuallyjoined it and it is quite gentle at the moment. it is. it's onl quite gentle at the moment. it is. it's only a — quite gentle at the moment. it is. it's only a matter _ quite gentle at the moment. it is. it's only a matter of _ quite gentle at the moment. it is. it's only a matter of time - quite gentle at the moment. it is. it's only a matter of time before the toxicity seeps in. i it's only a matter of time before the toxicity seeps in.— it's only a matter of time before the toxicity seeps in. i have done it myself. — the toxicity seeps in. i have done it myself. i _ the toxicity seeps in. i have done it myself, i have _ the toxicity seeps in. i have done it myself, i have joined _ the toxicity seeps in. i have done it myself, i have joined and - the toxicity seeps in. i have done it myself, i have joined and it - it myself, i have joined and it seems — it myself, i have joined and it seems early— it myself, i have joined and it seems early days, _ it myself, i have joined and it seems early days, like - it myself, i have joined and it seems early days, like the i it myself, i have joined and it. seems early days, like the early days _ seems early days, like the early days of— seems early days, like the early days of twitter _ seems early days, like the early days of twitter at _ seems early days, like the early days of twitter at the _ seems early days, like the early days of twitter at the moment, | seems early days, like the early. days of twitter at the moment, but how long _ days of twitter at the moment, but how long will — days of twitter at the moment, but how long will it _ days of twitter at the moment, but how long will it be _ days of twitter at the moment, but how long will it be before - days of twitter at the moment, but how long will it be before we - days of twitter at the moment, but how long will it be before we get. days of twitter at the moment, butj how long will it be before we get to the stage _
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how long will it be before we get to the stage of— how long will it be before we get to the stage of being _ how long will it be before we get to the stage of being bombarded - how long will it be before we get to the stage of being bombarded with| the stage of being bombarded with images? _ the stage of being bombarded with images? there _ the stage of being bombarded with images? there is— the stage of being bombarded with images? there is another- the stage of being bombarded with images? there is another point, i the stage of being bombarded with| images? there is another point, we are also— images? there is another point, we are also seeing _ images? there is another point, we are also seeing people _ images? there is another point, we are also seeing people obtaining... | are also seeing people obtaining... sarms— are also seeing people obtaining... sarms are — are also seeing people obtaining... sarms are not _ are also seeing people obtaining... sarms are not medication, - are also seeing people obtaining... sarms are not medication, they. are also seeing people obtaining... l sarms are not medication, they are not for— sarms are not medication, they are not for human — sarms are not medication, they are not for human consumption, - sarms are not medication, they are not for human consumption, you - not for human consumption, you shouldn't— not for human consumption, you shouldn't have _ not for human consumption, you shouldn't have them _ not for human consumption, you shouldn't have them and - not for human consumption, you shouldn't have them and if- not for human consumption, you shouldn't have them and if you l shouldn't have them and if you supply— shouldn't have them and if you supply them _ shouldn't have them and if you supply them for— shouldn't have them and if you supply them for human - shouldn't have them and if you - supply them for human consumption it is illegal _ supply them for human consumption it is illegal we _ supply them for human consumption it is illegal. we also _ supply them for human consumption it is illegal. we also know— supply them for human consumption it is illegal. we also know people - supply them for human consumption it is illegal. we also know people are - is illegal. we also know people are going _ is illegal. we also know people are going onto — is illegal. we also know people are going onto platforms _ is illegal. we also know people are going onto platforms like - is illegal. we also know people arel going onto platforms like instagram and even _ going onto platforms like instagram and even ebay— going onto platforms like instagram and even ebay where _ going onto platforms like instagram and even ebay where people - going onto platforms like instagram and even ebay where people are - and even ebay where people are selling _ and even ebay where people are selling medication. _ and even ebay where people are selling medication. these - selling medication. these organisations— selling medication. these organisations are - selling medication. these organisations are trying . selling medication. these| organisations are trying to selling medication. these - organisations are trying to take them _ organisations are trying to take them down _ organisations are trying to take them down but _ organisations are trying to take them down but sometimes - organisations are trying to take | them down but sometimes they organisations are trying to take - them down but sometimes they can't take them _ them down but sometimes they can't take them down— them down but sometimes they can't take them down quick— them down but sometimes they can't take them down quick enough. - them down but sometimes they can't take them down quick enough. we i them down but sometimes they can't i take them down quick enough. we know if you obtain— take them down quick enough. we know if you obtain medication _ take them down quick enough. we know if you obtain medication from _ take them down quick enough. we know if you obtain medication from an - if you obtain medication from an unregulated _ if you obtain medication from an unregulated sauce _ if you obtain medication from an unregulated sauce and - if you obtain medication from an unregulated sauce and sarms. if you obtain medication from an unregulated sauce and sarms is if you obtain medication from an - unregulated sauce and sarms is not a medication _ unregulated sauce and sarms is not a medication but — unregulated sauce and sarms is not a medication but if— unregulated sauce and sarms is not a medication but if you _ unregulated sauce and sarms is not a medication but if you obtain— unregulated sauce and sarms is not a medication but if you obtain regular. medication but if you obtain regular prescription — medication but if you obtain regular prescription medication _ medication but if you obtain regular prescription medication from - medication but if you obtain regular prescription medication from an - prescription medication from an unregulated _ prescription medication from an unregulated source, you - prescription medication from an unregulated source, you don't i prescription medication from an - unregulated source, you don't know what's _ unregulated source, you don't know what's in _ unregulated source, you don't know what's in there _ unregulated source, you don't know what's in there. it's _ unregulated source, you don't know what's in there. it's part— unregulated source, you don't know what's in there. it's part of- unregulated source, you don't know what's in there. it's part of a - what's in there. it's part of a wider— what's in there. it's part of a wider issue _ what's in there. it's part of a wider issue of— what's in there. it's part of a wider issue of we _ what's in there. it's part of a wider issue of we need - what's in there. it's part of a wider issue of we need to i what's in there. it's part of aj wider issue of we need to be what's in there. it's part of a - wider issue of we need to be more vigilant— wider issue of we need to be more vigilant as — wider issue of we need to be more vigilant as to— wider issue of we need to be more vigilant as to what _ wider issue of we need to be more vigilant as to what we _ wider issue of we need to be more vigilant as to what we are - wider issue of we need to be more. vigilant as to what we are assessing when _ vigilant as to what we are assessing when we _ vigilant as to what we are assessing when we obtain— vigilant as to what we are assessing when we obtain information - vigilant as to what we are assessing when we obtain information and - vigilant as to what we are assessing i when we obtain information and also where _ when we obtain information and also where we _ when we obtain information and also where we are — when we obtain information and also where we are getting _ when we obtain information and also where we are getting products - when we obtain information and also where we are getting products froml where we are getting products from as well _ where we are getting products from as well i_ where we are getting products from as well i have _ where we are getting products from as well. i have certainly— where we are getting products from as well. i have certainly seen - where we are getting products from as well. i have certainly seen an - as well. i have certainly seen an increase — as well. i have certainly seen an increase on— as well. i have certainly seen an increase on tiktok, _ as well. i have certainly seen an increase on tiktok, here - as well. i have certainly seen an increase on tiktok, here is - as well. i have certainly seen an increase on tiktok, here is a - increase on tiktok, here is a cleaning _ increase on tiktok, here is a cleaning idea. _ increase on tiktok, here is a cleaning idea, have - increase on tiktok, here is a cleaning idea, have a - increase on tiktok, here is a cleaning idea, have a go- increase on tiktok, here is a cleaning idea, have a go at. increase on tiktok, here is a . cleaning idea, have a go at this. increase on tiktok, here is a - cleaning idea, have a go at this. in the comments _
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cleaning idea, have a go at this. in the comments you _ cleaning idea, have a go at this. in the comments you see _ cleaning idea, have a go at this. in the comments you see the - cleaning idea, have a go at this. in the comments you see the peoplel cleaning idea, have a go at this. in - the comments you see the people who have tried _ the comments you see the people who have tried it— the comments you see the people who have tried it and — the comments you see the people who have tried it and now _ the comments you see the people who have tried it and now have _ the comments you see the people who have tried it and now have problems i have tried it and now have problems and have _ have tried it and now have problems and have to — have tried it and now have problems and have to call _ have tried it and now have problems and have to call a _ have tried it and now have problems and have to call a plumber. - have tried it and now have problems and have to call a plumber. as- have tried it and now have problems and have to call a plumber. as a - and have to call a plumber. as a society— and have to call a plumber. as a society we — and have to call a plumber. as a society we need _ and have to call a plumber. as a society we need to _ and have to call a plumber. as a society we need to be _ and have to call a plumber. as a society we need to be more - and have to call a plumber. as a - society we need to be more engaged with each— society we need to be more engaged with each other — society we need to be more engaged with each other about _ society we need to be more engaged with each other about where - society we need to be more engaged with each other about where we - society we need to be more engaged with each other about where we getl with each other about where we get information— with each other about where we get information and _ with each other about where we get information and products _ with each other about where we get information and products from. - with each other about where we get information and products from. thej information and products from. the more it is information and products from. more it is disseminated the more information and products from.- more it is disseminated the more it proliferates and more people see it as something that is if not the norm, more and more the norm. russell in bangor, thank you for getting in touch.— russell in bangor, thank you for getting in touch. good morning, i have appreciated _ getting in touch. good morning, i have appreciated your _ getting in touch. good morning, i have appreciated your career - getting in touch. good morning, i have appreciated your career and | have appreciated your career and thank you for all you do. unnecessary but very kind! what about this issue. it's good to have you on. i about this issue. it's good to have ou on. . . about this issue. it's good to have ou on. ., , , ., you on. i was telling your researcher— you on. i was telling your researcher when - you on. i was telling your researcher when i - you on. i was telling your researcher when i called| you on. i was telling your. researcher when i called in, you on. i was telling your- researcher when i called in, there is a bigger issue here. i know the lady has rightly identified things like tiktok and influences but that is a sticking plaster part of the equation. the bigger story and my story started around a decade ago. i was 2! stone, i would look in the
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mirror and hate myself. ifelt fat and ugly. i am happily married with and ugly. i am happily married with a wonderful wife but the big issue here is that it's a bit like many things when it comes to men. the big lie here is that body image is a female problem, that women don't like the way they look so they spend their lives trying to be more thin or grooming themselves in a way that makes them feel better about themselves with make—up and clothing and that sort of stuff. but men are just as bothered, i was just as bothered about my body image. i was just as depressed about it and had to do something. i lost six stone, i am now 15 stone, and i did it in two years. that's because i was tired of looking at myself in the mirror and hating myself. i am not a body—builder, i havejust lost body—builder, i have just lost weight body—builder, i havejust lost weight and got fit by running, i havejust come off weight and got fit by running, i have just come off the beach in bangor with my dog, walking him. it's like many things with men, we
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need to start getting into the dialogue of men, men arejust need to start getting into the dialogue of men, men are just as bothered by this stuff as women. that's what we are doing this morning. i that's what we are doing this morninu. ~' ., that's what we are doing this morninu. ~ ., i. that's what we are doing this morninu. ~ ., y., ., that's what we are doing this morninu. ~ ., ., ., ~ morning. i know you are, thank you. it is so important. _ morning. i know you are, thank you. it is so important. what _ morning. i know you are, thank you. it is so important. what about - morning. i know you are, thank you. it is so important. what about this i it is so important. what about this quest to be ripped, do you get that? i do. you watch the avengers movies, any hollywood movie, and as people have mentioned, you see stuff in the papers, some of the right—wing press in this country are obsessed by who is wearing what and what they look like and what their body is like. there is a dialogue going on in the media that perpetuates the lie. and i can see especially why young men think this is the thing to do. it is partly a fashion thing, like tattoos and piercings. one of the big fashion things these days is to get ripped and have a six pack. it has gone from a few who are like mr
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atlas in the gym to the general populace now. it is a fashion and thenit populace now. it is a fashion and then it creates the worst kind of lie, which is that there is a short cut. there is no short cut. everybody said to me when i lost my weight, what was the one thing you did? it wasn't one thing, it was a thousand tiny decisions, and apple instead of a mars bar. or i would park in a further spot away from the supermarket so i could walk further to the car. it took me a lot of very small decisions to do it, and the lie is with everything, whether it's the lie about becoming a youtube star or pop star, that there is a magic trick that if you take it you can be there quicker and that's why people are buying into this latest trend of using these drugs they shouldn't be using.— trend of using these drugs they shouldn't be using. and at one end of it there is _ shouldn't be using. and at one end of it there is the _ shouldn't be using. and at one end of it there is the love _ shouldn't be using. and at one end of it there is the love island, - shouldn't be using. and at one end of it there is the love island, the i of it there is the love island, the geordie shore, the only way is essex. the guys in that are
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generally speaking pretty ripped. these are great points. we can go to angela in wales. tell us your story. my angela in wales. tell us your story. my daughter had a boyfriend who was on steroids _ my daughter had a boyfriend who was on steroids who died of a heart attack — on steroids who died of a heart attack i— on steroids who died of a heart attack. i think he was 30. gosh. terrible. this _ attack. i think he was 30. gosh. terrible. this that's _ attack. i think he was 30. gosh. i terrible. this that's heartbreaking. it's not terrible. this that's heartbreaking. it's not worth _ terrible. this that's heartbreaking. it's not worth it, _ terrible. this that's heartbreaking. it's not worth it, you _ terrible. this that's heartbreaking. it's not worth it, you only - terrible. this that's heartbreaking. it's not worth it, you only have - terrible. this that's heartbreaking. j it's not worth it, you only have one life, it's not worth it, you only have one life. make — it's not worth it, you only have one life, make the most of what you have -ot. life, make the most of what you have got all _ life, make the most of what you have got all this— life, make the most of what you have got. all this competitive thing, it's about — got. all this competitive thing, it's about this. can got. all this competitive thing, it's about this.— it's about this. can you tell us something — it's about this. can you tell us something about _ it's about this. can you tell us something about him - it's about this. can you tell us something about him and - it's about this. can you tell us something about him and his| it's about this. can you tell us - something about him and his quest and what he was trying to achieve and what he was trying to achieve and why he was taking such risks in so doing? i and why he was taking such risks in so doinu ? ., �* ~ ., ., , so doing? i don't know, really. he was a big bloke — so doing? i don't know, really. he was a big bloke anyway. _ so doing? i don't know, really. he was a big bloke anyway. i-
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so doing? i don't know, really. hej was a big bloke anyway. i suppose so doing? i don't know, really. he i was a big bloke anyway. i suppose he 'ust was a big bloke anyway. i suppose he just wanted _ was a big bloke anyway. i suppose he just wanted to get thinner. i really don't _ just wanted to get thinner. i really don't know — just wanted to get thinner. i really don't know— don't know. how did the steroids affect him costa _ don't know. how did the steroids affect him costa people - don't know. how did the steroids affect him costa people talk - don't know. how did the steroids. affect him costa people talk about the roid rage and did it affect your daughter? i the roid rage and did it affect your dau:hter? .. the roid rage and did it affect your dau:hter? ~ ., , the roid rage and did it affect your dau:hter? ~' ., , ., daughter? i think he was all right mentall . daughter? i think he was all right mentally- l _ daughter? i think he was all right mentally. i didn't _ daughter? i think he was all right mentally. i didn't know _ daughter? i think he was all right mentally. i didn't know him - daughter? i think he was all right mentally. i didn't know him very| mentally. i didn't know him very well anyway. mentally. i didn't know him very wellanyway. he mentally. i didn't know him very well anyway. he was with my daughter briefly _ well anyway. he was with my daughter briefly. then she went off and changed — briefly. then she went off and changed her boyfriend. then it was later on— changed her boyfriend. then it was later on we — changed her boyfriend. then it was later on we heard he had died. it is such— later on we heard he had died. it is such a _ later on we heard he had died. it is such a waste. 30 is so young. | such a waste. 30 is so young. know. and such a waste. 30 is so young. i know. and this has been happening for years. know. and this has been happening foryears. it know. and this has been happening for years. it is reaching extreme levels now. thank you, angelo. we can go to andy in preston. good morning. what do you think about
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this? it morning. what do you think about this? . ., . , ., morning. what do you think about this? . , ., ., ., this? it concerns me that i have two ounu this? it concerns me that i have two young sons- — this? it concerns me that i have two young sons- l _ this? it concerns me that i have two young sons. i spoke _ this? it concerns me that i have two young sons. i spoke to _ this? it concerns me that i have two young sons. i spoke to you - this? it concerns me that i have two young sons. i spoke to you a - this? it concerns me that i have two young sons. i spoke to you a while i young sons. i spoke to you a while a-o young sons. i spoke to you a while ago regarding _ young sons. i spoke to you a while ago regarding my— young sons. i spoke to you a while ago regarding my boy— young sons. i spoke to you a while ago regarding my boy is _ young sons. i spoke to you a while ago regarding my boy is being - young sons. i spoke to you a while ago regarding my boy is being letl young sons. i spoke to you a while l ago regarding my boy is being let go from a _ ago regarding my boy is being let go from a football— ago regarding my boy is being let go from a football academy. _ ago regarding my boy is being let go from a football academy. i _ ago regarding my boy is being let go from a football academy. i have - ago regarding my boy is being let go from a football academy. i have two| from a football academy. i have two young _ from a football academy. i have two young boys — from a football academy. i have two young boys at — from a football academy. i have two young boys at 12 _ from a football academy. i have two young boys at 12 and _ from a football academy. i have two young boys at 12 and 14. _ from a football academy. i have two young boys at 12 and 14. i _ from a football academy. i have two young boys at 12 and 14. i was - from a football academy. i have two| young boys at 12 and 14. i was aware of the _ young boys at 12 and 14. i was aware of the pressure _ young boys at 12 and 14. i was aware of the pressure when _ young boys at 12 and 14. i was aware of the pressure when i _ young boys at 12 and 14. i was aware of the pressure when i was - young boys at 12 and 14. i was aware of the pressure when i was growing i of the pressure when i was growing up, of the pressure when i was growing up. if— of the pressure when i was growing up. if you _ of the pressure when i was growing up. if you didn't— of the pressure when i was growing up, if you didn't have _ of the pressure when i was growing up, if you didn't have the _ of the pressure when i was growing up, if you didn't have the fantasticl up, if you didn't have the fantastic body— up, if you didn't have the fantastic body then— up, if you didn't have the fantastic body then you _ up, if you didn't have the fantastic body then you had _ up, if you didn't have the fantastic body then you had to _ up, if you didn't have the fantastic body then you had to go _ up, if you didn't have the fantastic body then you had to go to - up, if you didn't have the fantastic body then you had to go to the - up, if you didn't have the fantastic. body then you had to go to the gym. ifyou _ body then you had to go to the gym. ifyou are _ body then you had to go to the gym. ifyou are not— body then you had to go to the gym. if you are not slim _ body then you had to go to the gym. if you are not slim like _ body then you had to go to the gym. if you are not slim like i— body then you had to go to the gym. if you are not slim like i was- body then you had to go to the gym. if you are not slim like i was it - if you are not slim like i was it was _ if you are not slim like i was it was incredibly— if you are not slim like i was it was incredibly hard _ if you are not slim like i was it was incredibly hard to - if you are not slim like i was it was incredibly hard to put - if you are not slim like i was it i was incredibly hard to put muscle on. was incredibly hard to put muscle on you _ was incredibly hard to put muscle on you had — was incredibly hard to put muscle on you had to _ was incredibly hard to put muscle on. you had to live _ was incredibly hard to put muscle on. you had to live it _ was incredibly hard to put muscle on. you had to live it religiously. | on. you had to live it religiously. years _ on. you had to live it religiously. years and — on. you had to live it religiously. years and years. _ on. you had to live it religiously. years and years. now— on. you had to live it religiously. years and years. now in- on. you had to live it religiously. years and years. now in this i on. you had to live it religiously. years and years. now in this age on. you had to live it religiously. i years and years. now in this age the young _ years and years. now in this age the young lads. — years and years. now in this age the young lads. social— years and years. now in this age the young lads, social media, _ years and years. now in this age the young lads, social media, they- years and years. now in this age the young lads, social media, they are l young lads, social media, they are bombarded — young lads, social media, they are bombarded with— young lads, social media, they are bombarded with it. _ young lads, social media, they are bombarded with it. that's - young lads, social media, they are bombarded with it. that's how- young lads, social media, they are bombarded with it. that's how you have _ bombarded with it. that's how you have to _ bombarded with it. that's how you have to be — bombarded with it. that's how you have to be. these _ bombarded with it. that's how you have to be. these awful _ bombarded with it. that's how you have to be. these awful tv - have to be. these awful tv programmes— have to be. these awful tv programmes that - have to be. these awful tv programmes that are i have to be. these awful tv programmes that are on, l have to be. these awful tv i programmes that are on, love have to be. these awful tv _ programmes that are on, love island, i programmes that are on, love island, i mean. _ programmes that are on, love island, i mean. just— programmes that are on, love island, i mean, just baffles _ programmes that are on, love island, i mean, just baffles me _ programmes that are on, love island, i mean, just baffles me how— programmes that are on, love island, i mean, just baffles me how that- i mean, just baffles me how that programme _ i mean, just baffles me how that programme is _ i mean, just baffles me how that programme is allowed _ i mean, just baffles me how that programme is allowed to - i mean, just baffles me how that programme is allowed to be i i mean, just baffles me how that programme is allowed to be on. i mean, just baffles me how that. programme is allowed to be on tv i mean, just baffles me how that- programme is allowed to be on tv in this day— programme is allowed to be on tv in this day and — programme is allowed to be on tv in
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this day and age _ programme is allowed to be on tv in this day and age. about _ programme is allowed to be on tv in this day and age. about one - programme is allowed to be on tv in this day and age. about one or- programme is allowed to be on tv in this day and age. about one or 2%i programme is allowed to be on tv in this day and age. about one or 2% of the population— this day and age. about one or 2% of the population actually— this day and age. about one or 2% of the population actually look- this day and age. about one or 2% of the population actually look like i the population actually look like that _ the population actually look like that. �* . the population actually look like that. �* , the population actually look like that. , , ., that. and i remember your brilliant call when we _ that. and i remember your brilliant call when we were _ that. and i remember your brilliant call when we were talking - that. and i remember your brilliant call when we were talking about i call when we were talking about young footballers and how bruising that particular business can be. i remember you talking about your lads and thank you for coming back to us. when we talk about love island it is quite easy to be po—faced about it and say it's a disgrace, it's nonsense and it's rubbish. but my daughters watch it and they watch it in a certain spirit. when they started watching a few years ago, they are young adults now but when they are young adults now but when they were teenagers they started to watch it. i used to say, you know this is ridiculous? they said, of course we do. they watch it... hopefully young people don't take it seriously but some do. {guild hopefully young people don't take it seriously but some do.— hopefully young people don't take it seriously but some do. could i come back to respond _ seriously but some do. could i come back to respond to _ seriously but some do. could i come back to respond to that _ seriously but some do. could i come back to respond to that question i back to respond to that question might certainly, but let's talk to
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andy first. i might certainly, but let's talk to and first. .. .. . might certainly, but let's talk to and first. ~ ~ , ., might certainly, but let's talk to andy first-— andy first. i think kids of a certain age. _ andy first. i think kids of a certain age, and _ andy first. i think kids of a certain age, and a - andy first. i think kids of a certain age, and a bit- andy first. i think kids of a i certain age, and a bit younger as mine— certain age, and a bit younger as mine are. — certain age, and a bit younger as mine are, 12—year—old _ certain age, and a bit younger as mine are, 12—year—old has- certain age, and a bit younger as mine are, 12—year—old has no. mine are,12—year—old has no interest— mine are, 12—year—old has no interest but _ mine are, 12—year—old has no interest but the _ mine are, 12—year—old has no interest but the 14—year—old i mine are, 12—year—old has no. interest but the 14—year—old has friends — interest but the 14—year—old has friends who _ interest but the 14—year—old has friends who watch _ interest but the 14—year—old has friends who watch it. _ interest but the 14—year—old has friends who watch it. there i interest but the 14—year—old has friends who watch it. there is i interest but the 14—year—old has friends who watch it. there is a i friends who watch it. there is a reason — friends who watch it. there is a reason why— friends who watch it. there is a reason why the _ friends who watch it. there is a reason why the contestants i friends who watch it. there is a l reason why the contestants look friends who watch it. there is a i reason why the contestants look the way they _ reason why the contestants look the way they d0~ — reason why the contestants look the way they do. we _ reason why the contestants look the way they do. we can't _ reason why the contestants look the way they do. we can't get _ reason why the contestants look the way they do. we can't get away - reason why the contestants look the | way they do. we can't get away from that _ way they do. we can't get away from that but _ way they do. we can't get away from that but if_ way they do. we can't get away from that but if you — way they do. we can't get away from that. but if you walk _ way they do. we can't get away from that. but if you walk around - way they do. we can't get away from that. but if you walk around where l way they do. we can't get away from that. but if you walk around where i i that. but if you walk around where i live or _ that. but if you walk around where i live or you _ that. but if you walk around where i live or you live, _ that. but if you walk around where i live or you live, you _ that. but if you walk around where i live or you live, you don't— that. but if you walk around where i live or you live, you don't see - live or you live, you don't see those — live or you live, you don't see those types _ live or you live, you don't see those types of _ live or you live, you don't see those types of people - live or you live, you don't seei those types of people walking live or you live, you don't see - those types of people walking around every day _ those types of people walking around every day. normat— those types of people walking around every day. normal people _ those types of people walking around every day. normal people like - those types of people walking around every day. normal people like me - those types of people walking aroundi every day. normal people like me and you. every day. normal people like me and you thats— every day. normal people like me and you that's a — every day. normal people like me and you. that's a very _ every day. normal people like me and you. that's a very tiny— every day. normal people like me and you. that's a very tiny percentage - you. that's a very tiny percentage of the _ you. that's a very tiny percentage of the population _ you. that's a very tiny percentage of the population that _ you. that's a very tiny percentage of the population that are - of the population that are hand—picked. _ of the population that are hand—picked. but- of the population that are hand—picked. but that - of the population that are hand—picked. but that isi of the population that are - hand—picked. but that is sending of the population that are _ hand—picked. but that is sending an image _ hand—picked. but that is sending an image over — hand—picked. but that is sending an image over it— hand—picked. but that is sending an image over. it sends _ hand—picked. but that is sending an image over. it sends the _ hand—picked. but that is sending an image over. it sends the image - hand—picked. but that is sending an| image over. it sends the image over that if_ image over. it sends the image over that ifyou _ image over. it sends the image over that if you don't _ image over. it sends the image over that if you don't have _ image over. it sends the image over that if you don't have a _ image over. it sends the image over that if you don't have a body- image over. it sends the image over that if you don't have a body like - image over. it sends the image over that if you don't have a body like a l that if you don't have a body like a greek— that if you don't have a body like a greek god. — that if you don't have a body like a greek god. and _ that if you don't have a body like a greek god, and it's— that if you don't have a body like a greek god, and it's the _ that if you don't have a body like a greek god, and it's the same - that if you don't have a body like a greek god, and it's the same for. that if you don't have a body like a l greek god, and it's the same for the women, _ greek god, and it's the same for the women, then— greek god, and it's the same for the women, then you _ greek god, and it's the same for the women, then you don't _ greek god, and it's the same for the women, then you don't get - greek god, and it's the same for the women, then you don't get on - greek god, and it's the same for the women, then you don't get on in - women, then you don't get on in life _ women, then you don't get on in life you — women, then you don't get on in life you will _ women, then you don't get on in life. you will not _ women, then you don't get on in life. you will not get _ women, then you don't get on in life. you will not get anywhere . women, then you don't get on in| life. you will not get anywhere in life. you will not get anywhere in life these — life. you will not get anywhere in life. these people _ life. you will not get anywhere in life. these people come - life. you will not get anywhere in life. these people come out- life. you will not get anywhere in life. these people come out of. life. you will not get anywhere in i life. these people come out of love tstahd _ life. these people come out of love island and _ life. these people come out of love island and they _ life. these people come out of love island and they are _ life. these people come out of love island and they are all— life. these people come out of love island and they are all over - life. these people come out of love island and they are all over social. island and they are all over social media _ island and they are all over social media and — island and they are all over social media and things. _ island and they are all over social media and things. it— island and they are all over social media and things. it is— island and they are all over social media and things. it is sending. island and they are all over social media and things. it is sending a| media and things. it is sending a message — media and things. it is sending a message to _ media and things. it is sending a message to young _ media and things. it is sending a message to young people - media and things. it is sending a message to young people and i media and things. it is sending a i message to young people and kids that it— message to young people and kids that ifyou —
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message to young people and kids that if you don't _ message to young people and kids that if you don't have _ message to young people and kids that if you don't have that - message to young people and kids that if you don't have that body, . that if you don't have that body, you dont— that if you don't have that body, you don't have _ that if you don't have that body, you don't have that— that if you don't have that body, you don't have that look... - that if you don't have that body, you don't have that look... he. you don't have that look... he russell? _ you don't have that look... he russell? if — you don't have that look... he russell? if i _ you don't have that look... russell? if i walked my dog you don't have that look...- russell? if i walked my dog across the common and i saw someone like that i would think they are like love island, wow, there is a strange looking fella! this love island, wow, there is a strange looking fella!— looking fella! this is it. the point is, that if looking fella! this is it. the point is. that if we _ looking fella! this is it. the point is, that if we walk _ looking fella! this is it. the point is, that if we walk down - looking fella! this is it. the point is, that if we walk down the - looking fella! this is it. the pointl is, that if we walk down the street today and saw somebody from one of those programmes we would think they looked out of place and not normal, which is really odd. it's interesting you said your daughters can watch it with the spirit of it being a bit of fun. i have daughters in their 205 being a bit of fun. i have daughters in their205 and being a bit of fun. i have daughters in their 205 and they watch it and laugh and think it is a bit silly. but there are a a significant number of people who will watch it and think it is real. they will think it is attainable and that's what you i5 attainable and that's what you should look is attainable and that's what you should look like. i think these kinds of shows should carry a health warning at the start like others
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shows carry a warning about violence or cigarettes. these should stay at the start, i'm not sure what it would say and people might laugh at me saying this, but they need to say, these are not normal people, this is a microcosm of a world that isn't a representation of the whole of society. but isn't a representation of the whole of socie . �* . , ., . of society. but what is normal? exactl , of society. but what is normal? exactly. that's _ of society. but what is normal? exactly, that's the _ of society. but what is normal? exactly, that's the point. - of society. but what is normal? exactly, that's the point. you i of society. but what is normal? i exactly, that's the point. you have hit the nail on the head. but kids are being told this is how they are supposed to look.— are being told this is how they are supposed to look. could i put a bit of ho -e supposed to look. could i put a bit of hope into _ supposed to look. could i put a bit of hope into the _ supposed to look. could i put a bit of hope into the situation? - supposed to look. could i put a bit of hope into the situation? peoplei of hope into the situation? people are all— of hope into the situation? people are all very— of hope into the situation? people are all very upset about love istamt — are all very upset about love island. this is professor keon west. island. this is professor keon west. i was _ island. this is professor keon west. i was about— island. this is professor keon west. i was about to come to you! can you address that point and i want to say as a social psychologist, what is the cost benefit analysis that's going on in their heads about what they will achieve from this but also they will achieve from this but also the possible dangers from it? i the possible dangers from it? i would start with a warning, since
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you asked~ — would start with a warning, since you asked. the cost benefit analysis, _ you asked. the cost benefit analysis, i don't think people are doing _ analysis, i don't think people are doing anything quite so rational. even _ doing anything quite so rational. even with— doing anything quite so rational. even with your daughters who watch it and _ even with your daughters who watch it and see _ even with your daughters who watch it and see it — even with your daughters who watch it and see it as a bit of a laugh, i think— it and see it as a bit of a laugh, i think people don't often realise how quickly— think people don't often realise how quickly these ideas implicitly embed themselves in people's mines. even afteriust_ themselves in people's mines. even afteriust 15— themselves in people's mines. even afterjust 15 minutes of looking at afterjust 15 minutes of looking at a show— afterjust 15 minutes of looking at a show like that, your idea of what a show like that, your idea of what a normal— a show like that, your idea of what a normal person looks like has now shifted _ a normal person looks like has now shifted. not very much necessarily, but it— shifted. not very much necessarily, but it has— shifted. not very much necessarily, but it has shifted. it's notjust a matter— but it has shifted. it's notjust a matter of— but it has shifted. it's notjust a matter of what is attainable but what _ matter of what is attainable but what is — matter of what is attainable but what is normal and how closely you approximate the normal and that can be quite _ approximate the normal and that can be quite difficult. the thing i say about— be quite difficult. the thing i say about hope, we have created this problem. — about hope, we have created this problem, we invented television, love _ problem, we invented television, love island and instagram. it is problem — love island and instagram. it is problem we could destroy or reverse. it is problem we could destroy or reverse. it is up _ problem we could destroy or reverse. it is up to— problem we could destroy or reverse. it is up to us — problem we could destroy or reverse. it is up to us. research has shown that in— it is up to us. research has shown that iniust — it is up to us. research has shown that iniust a — it is up to us. research has shown that injust a few minutes, doesn't have _ that injust a few minutes, doesn't have to _ that injust a few minutes, doesn't have to be — that injust a few minutes, doesn't have to be a — that injust a few minutes, doesn't have to be a big song and dance, if you leave _ have to be a big song and dance, if you leave out a few magazines with slightly— you leave out a few magazines with slightly larger or more normal
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tooking — slightly larger or more normal looking people, leave them out on a table and _ looking people, leave them out on a table and let people pick them up and leave — table and let people pick them up and leave them casually without paying _ and leave them casually without paying too much attention, after a few minutes of that, their idea of what _ few minutes of that, their idea of what is _ few minutes of that, their idea of what is normal shifts in the other direction — what is normal shifts in the other direction. you can change this and you can _ direction. you can change this and you can change it relatively straightforwardly. we just have to make _ straightforwardly. we just have to make the — straightforwardly. we just have to make the decision to change it. | make the decision to change it. wanted to make the decision to change it. i wanted to be like david bowley. —— david bowie. wanted to be like david bowley. -- david bowie-— wanted to be like david bowley. -- david bowie. you bring up pop stars is a aood david bowie. you bring up pop stars is a good example. _ david bowie. you bring up pop stars is a good example. a _ david bowie. you bring up pop stars is a good example. a great - david bowie. you bring up pop stars is a good example. a great source l david bowie. you bring up pop stars| is a good example. a great source of hope is lewis capaldi. he doesn't look like what people think a pop star should look like but he is an absolute rock star. after watching what happened at glastonbury, the empathy that came towards him. people realised he was struggling with mental health, body image. there is a great show on netflix about him as well. lewis capaldi gives me hope. it shows that normal people, quote unquote, if we want to use that normal time, but let's use
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it because it is a touchstone for us, but it shows normal people can be like that and lewis capaldi gives me great hope. be like that and lewis capaldi gives me great hope-— be like that and lewis capaldi gives me great hope. yeah, i find what you said suite me great hope. yeah, i find what you said quite moving. _ me great hope. yeah, i find what you said quite moving. i— me great hope. yeah, i find what you said quite moving. iwas— me great hope. yeah, i find what you said quite moving. i was thinking - said quite moving. i was thinking about the whole lewis capaldi thing. it's something i have been focusing on. what a brilliant role model he is. . on. what a brilliant role model he is. , , ., on. what a brilliant role model he is. . , . we on. what a brilliant role model he is-_ we can _ on. what a brilliant role model he is-_ we can go - on. what a brilliant role model he is._ we can go to - on. what a brilliant role model he is._ we can go to sam on. what a brilliant role model he i is._ we can go to sam in is. he is, yeah. we can go to sam in maidstone- — is. he is, yeah. we can go to sam in maidstone- i— is. he is, yeah. we can go to sam in maidstone. i have _ is. he is, yeah. we can go to sam in maidstone. i have it _ is. he is, yeah. we can go to sam in maidstone. i have it written - is. he is, yeah. we can go to sam in maidstone. i have it written down i maidstone. i have it written down here you are considering taking sarms until you saw the story this morning. 50, welcome and good morning. 50, welcome and good morning. why were you on that road? the answer to that question, to be honest. _ the answer to that question, to be honest. they— the answer to that question, to be honest. they are _ the answer to that question, to be honest, they are so _ the answer to that question, to be honest, they are so widely - the answer to that question, to be i honest, they are so widely available and so _ honest, they are so widely available and so heavily— honest, they are so widely available and so heavily promoted _ honest, they are so widely available and so heavily promoted to - honest, they are so widely available and so heavily promoted to anyone i and so heavily promoted to anyone who regularly— and so heavily promoted to anyone who regularly goes _ and so heavily promoted to anyone who regularly goes to _ and so heavily promoted to anyone who regularly goes to the - and so heavily promoted to anyone who regularly goes to the gym - and so heavily promoted to anyone who regularly goes to the gym and | who regularly goes to the gym and visits— who regularly goes to the gym and visits websites _ who regularly goes to the gym and visits websites where _ who regularly goes to the gym and visits websites where they- who regularly goes to the gym and visits websites where they sell- visits websites where they sell protein — visits websites where they sell protein powders _ visits websites where they sell protein powders and _ visits websites where they sell protein powders and stuff. - visits websites where they sell protein powders and stuff. i. visits websites where they sell. protein powders and stuff. i had visits websites where they sell- protein powders and stuff. i had no idea they— protein powders and stuff. i had no idea they were _ protein powders and stuff. i had no idea they were illegal _ protein powders and stuff. i had no idea they were illegal and - protein powders and stuff. i had no idea they were illegal and not - idea they were illegal and not tested — idea they were illegal and not tested property— idea they were illegal and not tested properly for— idea they were illegal and not tested properly for human - tested properly for human consumption. _ tested properly for human consumption. i— tested properly for human consumption. i genuinelyl tested properly for human i consumption. i genuinely had tested properly for human -
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consumption. i genuinely had no idea _ consumption. i genuinely had no idea. . , . consumption. i genuinely had no idea. ., , ., ., , consumption. i genuinely had no idea. . . , ., idea. yeah, they are actually for preventing _ idea. yeah, they are actually for preventing osteoporosis. - idea. yeah, they are actually for preventing osteoporosis. that's| idea. yeah, they are actually for - preventing osteoporosis. that's why they were developed, and muscle loss, reducing the risks of undesirable conditions like prostate cancer. but you can get erectile dysfunction, disrupted hormone levels, liver problems, breast tissue development. but you had no idea. do you have friends who take this? not necessarily friends but i definitely— not necessarily friends but i definitely know _ not necessarily friends but i definitely know people - not necessarily friends but i definitely know people who| not necessarily friends but i. definitely know people who do not necessarily friends but i- definitely know people who do take it, definitely know people who do take it. yes _ definitely know people who do take it. yes and — definitely know people who do take it. yes and i— definitely know people who do take it, yes. and i would _ definitely know people who do take it, yes. and i would say— definitely know people who do take it, yes. and i would say it- definitely know people who do take it, yes. and i would say it is- it, yes. and i would say it is actively— it, yes. and i would say it is actively encouraged. - it, yes. and i would say it is actively encouraged. i- it, yes. and i would say it is. actively encouraged. i mean... it, yes. and i would say it is- actively encouraged. i mean... i would _ actively encouraged. i mean... i would love— actively encouraged. i mean... i would love to _ actively encouraged. i mean... i would love to say _ actively encouraged. i mean... i would love to say it _ actively encouraged. i mean... i would love to say it is _ actively encouraged. i mean... i would love to say it is an - actively encouraged. i mean... i would love to say it is an open l would love to say it is an open secret — would love to say it is an open secret but _ would love to say it is an open secret but it _ would love to say it is an open secret but it is _ would love to say it is an open secret but it is no _ would love to say it is an open secret but it is no secret- would love to say it is an open secret but it is no secret at - would love to say it is an open| secret but it is no secret at all. no secret — secret but it is no secret at all. no secret at _ secret but it is no secret at all. no secret at all. _ secret but it is no secret at all. no secret at all.— no secret at all. no, it is incredibly _ no secret at all. no, it is incredibly popular- no secret at all. no, it is incredibly popular in - no secret at all. no, it is incredibly popular in the | no secret at all. no, it is _ incredibly popular in the community, and i incredibly popular in the community, and i know— incredibly popular in the community, and i know because _ incredibly popular in the community, and i know because i— incredibly popular in the community, and i know because i am _ incredibly popular in the community, and i know because i am a _ incredibly popular in the community, and i know because i am a personal. and i know because i am a personal trainer— and i know because i am a personal trainer myself— and i know because i am a personal trainer myseif and _ and i know because i am a personal trainer myself and i— and i know because i am a personal trainer myself and i know _ and i know because i am a personal trainer myself and i know other- trainer myself and i know other trainers — trainer myself and i know other trainers themselves— trainer myself and i know other trainers themselves have - trainer myself and i know other- trainers themselves have recommended it to clients, _ trainers themselves have recommended it to clients, it _ trainers themselves have recommended it to clients, it is— trainers themselves have recommended it to clients, it is so— trainers themselves have recommended it to clients, it is so ingrained _ trainers themselves have recommended it to clients, it is so ingrained in - it to clients, it is so ingrained in the culture _ it to clients, it is so ingrained in the culture that _ it to clients, it is so ingrained in
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the culture that i _ it to clients, it is so ingrained in the culture that i kind _ it to clients, it is so ingrained in the culture that i kind of- it to clients, it is so ingrained in the culture that i kind ofjust . the culture that i kind ofjust assumed _ the culture that i kind ofjust assumed it— the culture that i kind ofjust assumed if everyone - the culture that i kind ofjust assumed if everyone else . the culture that i kind ofjust assumed if everyone else isi the culture that i kind ofjust - assumed if everyone else is doing it surety— assumed if everyone else is doing it surely it— assumed if everyone else is doing it surely it must — assumed if everyone else is doing it surely it must be _ assumed if everyone else is doing it surely it must be safe. _ assumed if everyone else is doing it surely it must be safe. do— assumed if everyone else is doing it surely it must be safe.— surely it must be safe. do you take an hint ? surely it must be safe. do you take anything? no. _ surely it must be safe. do you take anything? no, personally- surely it must be safe. do you take anything? no, personally i - surely it must be safe. do you take anything? no, personally i don't, l anything? no, personally i don't, i've anything? no, personally i don't, i've always _ anything? no, personally i don't, i've always been _ anything? no, personally i don't, i've always been of _ anything? no, personally i don't, i've always been of the _ anything? no, personally i don't, i've always been of the opinion i anything? no, personally i don't, l i've always been of the opinion that supplementation _ i've always been of the opinion that supplementation isn't _ i've always been of the opinion that supplementation isn't really- i've always been of the opinion that supplementation isn't really the - supplementation isn't really the i’ili'it supplementation isn't really the right way— supplementation isn't really the right way to _ supplementation isn't really the right way to go _ supplementation isn't really the right way to go about _ supplementation isn't really the right way to go about it, - supplementation isn't really the right way to go about it, i - supplementation isn't really the right way to go about it, i kind i supplementation isn't really the l right way to go about it, i kind of view— right way to go about it, i kind of view it— right way to go about it, i kind of view it as — right way to go about it, i kind of view it as cheating _ right way to go about it, i kind of view it as cheating personally, i right way to go about it, i kind of| view it as cheating personally, so the others — view it as cheating personally, so the others i've _ view it as cheating personally, so the others i've ever— view it as cheating personally, so the others i've ever gone - view it as cheating personally, so the others i've ever gone is - view it as cheating personally, so the others i've ever gone isjusti the others i've ever gone isjust protein— the others i've ever gone isjust protein powder, _ the others i've ever gone isjust protein powder, but _ the others i've ever gone isjust protein powder, but certainly. the others i've ever gone isjust. protein powder, but certainly i've had a _ protein powder, but certainly i've had a lot— protein powder, but certainly i've had a lot of— protein powder, but certainly i've had a lot of people _ protein powder, but certainly i've had a lot of people ask— protein powder, but certainly i've had a lot of people ask me - protein powder, but certainly i've had a lot of people ask me about| protein powder, but certainly i've i had a lot of people ask me about it, let me _ had a lot of people ask me about it, let me tell— had a lot of people ask me about it, let me tell you. _ had a lot of people ask me about it, let me tell you, i'm _ had a lot of people ask me about it, let me tell you, i'm very— had a lot of people ask me about it, let me tell you, i'm very glad - had a lot of people ask me about it, let me tell you, i'm very glad now. let me tell you, i'm very glad now that i_ let me tell you, i'm very glad now that i have — let me tell you, i'm very glad now that i have never— let me tell you, i'm very glad now that i have never gone _ let me tell you, i'm very glad now that i have never gone down - let me tell you, i'm very glad now that i have never gone down thati that i have never gone down that road _ that i have never gone down that road. ~ ., ., . ., that i have never gone down that road. ~ ., ., . . , ,, . road. wow. doctor francis de silva, gp body-builder, _ road. wow. doctor francis de silva, gp body-builder, come _ road. wow. doctor francis de silva, gp body-builder, come back - road. wow. doctor francis de silva, gp body-builder, come back in, - road. wow. doctor francis de silva, gp body-builder, come back in, a l gp body—builder, come back in, a real subculture here, isn't there? element definitely. enjoyed listening to everybody because it's great we have this forum to speak about it. ~ ., ., _, about it. like one of the college ma'or, a about it. like one of the college major. a big _ about it. like one of the college major, a big thing _ about it. like one of the college major, a big thing with - about it. like one of the college major, a big thing with mental. major, a big thing with mental health and physical appearance and the lewis capaldi and ed sheeran of the lewis capaldi and ed sheeran of the world, we need more of that, talking about men, no matter your appearance, struggling, and that's why me, myself, i lost 35 kilograms
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in weight myself one quarter and although i looked physically different my mental health varies, my mental health as different as well. and you mention some points about the risk, benefit analysis people do, the attain ability of things people are trying to attain, i'd love to be able to play football like lionel messi and drive a formula! car like lionel messi and drive a formula 1 car like like lionel messi and drive a formula! car like lewis like lionel messi and drive a formula 1 car like lewis hamilton but it's not going to happen overnight, it's never going to happen for me, i don't have in my genetics, is hard and is determined as i can be, i can achieve that. whereas if you want a fantastic physique, you can go online and people will tell you you can achieve it by taking x, y, and z and doing x, y, and z instantly almost. fin x, y, and z instantly almost. on that point. _ x, y, and z instantly almost. on that point, the female gaze is a thing that has become very big on social media, and it was originally
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a feminist film—making making tea that holds that women find emotional intelligence, respect and social interaction attractive, and men that would be found attractive under the female gaze would be people like kiana reeves and tom hiddleston and harry styles, not super ripped but many describe themselves as feminists and have high levels of emotional intelligence put up just tell you that because that is a thing, apparently. james, you only gem, i'mjust thing, apparently. james, you only gem, i'm just telling everyone else, are you seeing a lot of this with young men?— are you seeing a lot of this with ouna men? , �* young men? yes, i've come across ounu young men? yes, i've come across young men — young men? yes, i've come across young men who — young men? yes, i've come across young men who are _ young men? yes, i've come across young men who are slim _ young men? yes, i've come across young men who are slim but - young men? yes, i've come across young men who are slim but they i young men who are slim but they think they are not slim and are convinced they need to get slimmer, or are fairly muscular but really believe they need to be more muscular and some have come from a different where a lot of the men are muscular, so if you're not muscular then you are deemed as an outcast and that is a terrible thing. but it
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can definitely affect people's mental health and have come across people that do take sarms, all sorts of things, i have also heard from some of the people who have been taking it for a long time and it can have serious health implications that you can traverse like blood complications, heart complications, and in my opinion i think why would you do it? why would you take that risk? i would only do it if someone said we are going to do a £20 million contract for you, we need you to get in shape in the next two weeks to this level, i would say thatis weeks to this level, i would say that is worth the risk, butjust to look good they a t—shirt in front of strangers, why risk your heart? great points this morning. much more to come. get in touch. you can get to come. get in touch. you can get to us on social media, this is the
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nation's phone in and we are on the news channel and bbc two, five live, bbc sounds and it is men and muscles, your stories. now for the news with richard. schools across england are expected to close because of a strike by teachers. members of the national education union are walking out again over pay. it's balloting for further action in the autumn. police are inspecting the land rover which crashed into a primary school in wimbledon, killing an eight year old girl. it was being driven by a woman in herforties, who's being held on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving. the bbc has discovered dangerous muscle—building drugs being sold illegally in shops around the uk. they're known as sarms, and doctors say they can cause erectile dysfunction, mood swings and liver problems.the halifax says house prices have fallen at their fastest rate in 12
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years, while mortgage rates continue to rise. the high street lender says the annual fall of 2.6% is equal to around £7,500 being wiped off the average value of a uk property. former england captain michael vaughan is predicting another "great contest" on day 2 of the third ashes test at headingley. england will resume on 68—3 this morning, trailing by 195 runs. mark wood took 5 wickets yesterday for england. mitchell marsh scored a century for australia. andy murray will be back on centre court in the second match of the day, to finish his delayed second—round tie with fifth seed stefanos tsitsipas, with the briton leading by two sets to one. after that it'll be what novak djokovic is calling "the duel of the veterans of the tour" when he faces old rival stan wawrinka. and following his shock win over casper ruud, liam broady is also in third round action today. meanwhile
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mark cavendish could make history today on stage 7 of the tour de france, which should end in a sprint finish. he's chasing a record breaking 35th stage win. and irish amateur aine donegan is one shot off the lead at the women's us open after her first round at a major. we are talking about men and muscles
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in the dangerous pharmaceutical places men will go and men will take. we are talking aboutjust oil... recently we've seen protesters disrupt wimbledon, the ashes and rugby union's premiership final. just stop 0il�*s lead funder dale vince has warned that more high—profile sport is on the organisation's target list... he says "the most effective protest is a disruptive one". but the boss of silverstone has warned campaigners that they are risking their lives if they trespass on to the track at the british grand prix this weekend. six protesters were convicted of causing a public nuisance afer the track was invaded last year. the policing minister chris philp says sports have been encouraged to hire more marshals and use injunctions to prevent protests. what do you think? is sport a legitimate target? does the climate crisis justify the tactics? do you approve of the message but not the medium?
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it isjust stopping sport ok? we are sleepwalking into a furnace, politicians reneging on promises. we are told rishi sunak is not interested, here starmer got the protest yesterday. in history, if we write a history book on this, on anything, we also thank god forjust anything, we also thank god forjust a boil, at least they tried. it is just stopping sport 0k? francis is still with us, gp and body—builder, who is sounding loads of cider and warnings on this, and sam in cheltenham, jane... good morning. what are you seeing? ilrrui’eiiii.
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morning. what are you seeing? well, i have had morning. what are you seeing? well, i have had two _ morning. what are you seeing? well, i have had two relatives _ morning. what are you seeing? well, i have had two relatives in _ morning. what are you seeing? j! i have had two relatives in the family affected by the body—building drugs that they take. the biggest thing with that is the change in personality as well as the body. one of them was on what they nicknamed the marriage breaker drug, which it did literally destroy his marriage. the thing with that is they do the body—building for self esteem quite a lot of the time, but of course taking the drugs can destroy the self—esteem anyway. so it is a bit of a double whammy. self-esteem anyway. so it is a bit of a double whammy.— self—esteem anyway. so it is a bit of a double whammy. yes. and the other one. — of a double whammy. yes. and the other one. he _ of a double whammy. yes. and the other one, he is _ of a double whammy. yes. and the other one, he is youngish, and literally a bit of a mess, to be fair. . . , ., , literally a bit of a mess, to be fair. . . , . , ~ ,, . fair. in what way? heavy cms at the moment? element _ fair. in what way? heavy cms at the moment? element he _ fair. in what way? heavy cms at the moment? element he is _ fair. in what way? heavy cms at the moment? element he is a _ fair. in what way? heavy cms at the moment? element he is a pd - fair. in what way? heavy cms at the i
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moment? element he is a pd trainer, so even though sometimes he tries to get away from it, he says it is rife in gems, posh hotels, gems that he has worked in. it is just very difficult to get away, the self—esteem is very low, the relationships break up. he has gone from someone that it was very skinny to someone very big. yeah. the marriage breaking drug, tell me a little bit more. i marriage breaking drug, tell me a little bit more.— little bit more. i don't really know the name of _ little bit more. i don't really know the name of it, _ little bit more. i don't really know the name of it, i— little bit more. i don't really know the name of it, i wished... - little bit more. i don't really know the name of it, i wished... is- the name of it, i wished... is erectile function what we are talking about or a change in personality?— talking about or a change in personality? talking about or a change in ersonali ? ., ., personality? no, he went the other wa and personality? no, he went the other way and became — personality? no, he went the other way and became very _ personality? no, he went the other way and became very macho - personality? no, he went the other way and became very macho and i personality? no, he went the other. way and became very macho and that led to other things, and personality
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changes. it has been a tough time for a few members of the family. what are they looking for or are trying to achieve? in what are they looking for or are trying to achieve?— trying to achieve? in one of the cases, i think _ trying to achieve? in one of the cases, i think it _ trying to achieve? in one of the cases, i think it is _ trying to achieve? in one of the cases, i think it is self - trying to achieve? in one of the cases, i think it is self esteem, j cases, i think it is self esteem, definitely from childhood he got bullied for being skinny. and the other one, growing older, i suppose wanting to get all maybe. i know people have different reasons, don't they? it is very difficult for my sister at the moment. she is having a very tough time of it.— a very tough time of it. awful, how much of it — a very tough time of it. awful, how much of it is _ a very tough time of it. awful, how much of it is to _ a very tough time of it. awful, how much of it is to do _ a very tough time of it. awful, how much of it is to do with _ a very tough time of it. awful, how much of it is to do with what - a very tough time of it. awful, how much of it is to do with what the i much of it is to do with what the sea and consume on social media?
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yeah, especially in the gym i think because of seeing other people built up, they want to look like it. and not everybody. like i say, everybody has different reasons, don't they, for why they want to be different. experiences of life, don't they, make you, sometimes you want to be somebody else. but it is easy for them,. . ~ somebody else. but it is easy for them,. . ,, somebody else. but it is easy for them,. . ~' , somebody else. but it is easy for them,. . ,, , . , them,. thank you very much. i wish ou well. them,. thank you very much. i wish you well. sarah, _ them,. thank you very much. i wish you well. sarah, that _ them,. thank you very much. i wish you well. sarah, that is _ them,. thank you very much. i wish you well. sarah, that is your - them,. thank you very much. i wish you well. sarah, that is your name i you well. sarah, that is your name for the purposes of this conversation. simon ackerman at the
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end of the programme so i've... i end of the programme so i've... i may have missed something, from my point of— may have missed something, from my point of view steroids cause problems for families. i have a young — problems for families. i have a young granddaughter currently going through— young granddaughter currently going through the court system to try and keep her— through the court system to try and keep her father away from her, a domestic— keep her father away from her, a domestic violence abuser, and obviously— domestic violence abuser, and obviously i am not a doctor, but he takes _ obviously i am not a doctor, but he takes drugs, — obviously i am not a doctor, but he takes drugs, steroids and he drinks so obviously they must be contributing factors. the police used _ contributing factors. the police used to— contributing factors. the police used to be called out to the house and since — used to be called out to the house and since then he has not seen his daughter— and since then he has not seen his daughter for four years. and since then he has not seen his daughterforfouryears. he is daughter for four years. he is continuing daughterforfouryears. he is continuing to choose drugs etc overseeing her. ithink continuing to choose drugs etc overseeing her. i think when these young _ overseeing her. i think when these young tads— overseeing her. i think when these young lads are in the gym and perfecting their body, etc, they don't _ perfecting their body, etc, they don't realise what will happen down the line _
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spent in court on drug testing in all sorts— spent in court on drug testing in all sorts of— spent in court on drug testing in all sorts of things, they become secretive, i wish we had never heard of them _ they are in the gems and get comments, comments of the family, you took— comments, comments of the family, you look great, fantastic, leads on, illegal— you look great, fantastic, leads on, illegal tanning injections,
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you look great, fantastic, leads on, illegaltanning injections, it you look great, fantastic, leads on, illegal tanning injections, it is all image, all the money doesn't go to his _ all image, all the money doesn't go to his daughter, she cares a little amounts — to his daughter, she cares a little amounts of— to his daughter, she cares a little amounts of it, becomes very secretive. _ amounts of it, becomes very secretive, says he is self—employed and won't _ secretive, says he is self—employed and won't reveal anything and this is all. _ and won't reveal anything and this is all. he — and won't reveal anything and this is all, he would prefer his tifestyte _ is all, he would prefer his lifestyle of the muscle—bound man to seeing _ lifestyle of the muscle—bound man to seeing his— lifestyle of the muscle—bound man to seeing his daughter. he should now be starting — seeing his daughter. he should now be starting to settle down the age that he _ be starting to settle down the age that he is— be starting to settle down the age that he is but he is choosing drugs, steroids _ that he is but he is choosing drugs, steroids and — that he is but he is choosing drugs, steroids and drink over her. this that he is but he is choosing drugs, steroids and drink over her.- steroids and drink over her. this is the addiction _ steroids and drink over her. this is the addiction thing, _ steroids and drink over her. this is the addiction thing, getting - the addiction thing, getting gambling addiction, you get it alcohol addiction, gambling addiction, you get it alcoholaddiction, drug... gambling addiction, you get it alcohol addiction, drug... that becomes the entire focus and priority of his life. it becomes the entire focus and priority of his life.— becomes the entire focus and priority of his life. it must be. what else _ priority of his life. it must be. what else can _ priority of his life. it must be. what else can it _ priority of his life. it must be. what else can it be? - priority of his life. it must be. what else can it be? why i priority of his life. it must be. l what else can it be? why would priority of his life. it must be. - what else can it be? why would you choose _ what else can it be? why would you choose synthetic drugs over a
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beautiful _ choose synthetic drugs over a beautiful little lothar? who can't understand. everybody is involved, court. _ understand. everybody is involved, court. social— understand. everybody is involved, court, social services get involved, your life _ court, social services get involved, your life is — court, social services get involved, your life is not your own. and there he is _ your life is not your own. and there he is still— your life is not your own. and there he is still going on holiday etc, exotic— he is still going on holiday etc, exotic holidays, we've not even been in a caravan — exotic holidays, we've not even been in a caravan with her, per girl has never— in a caravan with her, per girl has never had — in a caravan with her, per girl has never had a— in a caravan with her, per girl has never had a holiday in her life. my money— never had a holiday in her life. my money is — never had a holiday in her life. my money is running out, and his family 'ust money is running out, and his family just think— money is running out, and his family just think it — money is running out, and his family just think it is— money is running out, and his family just think it is a break—up of a relationship. yes, she broke up because — relationship. yes, she broke up because she found the steroids and obviously— because she found the steroids and obviously there was domestic violence _ obviously there was domestic violence and the police were coming out etc, _ violence and the police were coming out etc, and — violence and the police were coming out etc, and it is terrible. he is ex army— out etc, and it is terrible. he is ex army as _ out etc, and it is terrible. he is ex army as well, and the army seems to shut _ ex army as well, and the army seems to shut down — ex army as well, and the army seems to shut down on his records because they have _ to shut down on his records because they have been requested for this, because _ they have been requested for this, because i— they have been requested for this, because i believe he was discharged
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from the _ because i believe he was discharged from the army. | because i believe he was discharged from the army-— from the army. i don't want to go too far down _ from the army. i don't want to go too far down this _ from the army. i don't want to go too far down this road _ from the army. i don't want to go too far down this road unless - from the army. i don't want to go i too far down this road unless there is some kind of possibility —— in case there are some kind of buzz about the identification but please pick that up, this is classic addiction. pick that up, this is classic addiction-— pick that up, this is classic addiction. ~ . , ., , ., addiction. what is worrying for me is, i've addiction. what is worrying for me is. i've been _ addiction. what is worrying for me is. i've been a _ addiction. what is worrying for me is, i've been a doctor _ addiction. what is worrying for me is, i've been a doctor for - addiction. what is worrying for me is, i've been a doctor for over- addiction. what is worrying for me is, i've been a doctor for over ten | is, i've been a doctorfor over ten years now, when as a gp, when patients come to me and i'm prescribing medications, it is deciding whether it is beneficial to patients, a rest, all these medications interact with each other, and you hear of some of some of the things people in the 205 and teenagers are taking, they're prescription, notjust their prescription, notjust their prescription, notjust steroids, taking prescription medications that me and my colleagues would be thinking to these interact with each other? are they risky for an adult to take? but sometimes they are aimlessly just taking them to take? but sometimes they are aimlesslyjust taking them with the belief that they are going to achieve this physique, and that is just taking into account the physical impacts are good apples that we've heard so many stories
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today of how families have been broken, lives have been lost, lots of sad things have happened because of sad things have happened because of some of these drugs people are taking and smoking when it first came out, we never really talked about the effects of it when it first came out and only now in recent times the side—effects of smoking, the negative effects, have come about, and a0 and 50 times we will be —— a0 or 50 years we will be talking about the same negative effects of some of the steroids and drugs taken now. we need to stop before... families are being broken and it is sad to hear it is not improving because we are not talking... everything is being swept under the carpet and kept a secret. daniel, you have taken sarms. yes. daniel, you have taken sarms. yes, won't be for— daniel, you have taken sarms. yes, won't be for the _ daniel, you have taken sarms. yes,
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won't be for the last _ daniel, you have taken sarms. yes, won't be for the last seven _ daniel, you have taken sarms. yes, won't be for the last seven days, and i_ won't be for the last seven days, and i count— won't be for the last seven days, and i count myself— won't be for the last seven days, and i count myself as _ won't be for the last seven days, and i count myself as someone i won't be for the last seven days, i and i count myself as someone who won't be for the last seven days, - and i count myself as someone who is really— and i count myself as someone who is really responsible _ and i count myself as someone who is really responsible about _ and i count myself as someone who is really responsible about these - really responsible about these things. — really responsible about these things. be _ really responsible about these things. be going _ really responsible about these things, be going to— really responsible about these things, be going to the - really responsible about these things, be going to the gym i really responsible about these i things, be going to the gym for a few years. — things, be going to the gym for a few years, training _ things, be going to the gym for a few years, training to _ things, be going to the gym for a few years, training to be - things, be going to the gym for a few years, training to be a - things, be going to the gym for a few years, training to be a pg, i things, be going to the gym for aj few years, training to be a pg, at things, be going to the gym for a l few years, training to be a pg, at a lyiti few years, training to be a pg, at a gym in— few years, training to be a pg, at a gym in leeds, _ few years, training to be a pg, at a gym in leeds, could _ few years, training to be a pg, at a gym in leeds, could not _ few years, training to be a pg, at a gym in leeds, could not be - few years, training to be a pg, at a gym in leeds, could not be more l few years, training to be a pg, at ai gym in leeds, could not be more on the was _ gym in leeds, could not be more on the was a _ gym in leeds, could not be more on the was a positive _ gym in leeds, could not be more on the was a positive kind _ gym in leeds, could not be more on the was a positive kind of— gym in leeds, could not be more on the was a positive kind of trading i the was a positive kind of trading but i _ the was a positive kind of trading but i think— the was a positive kind of trading but i think for— the was a positive kind of trading but i think for me _ the was a positive kind of trading but i think for me it— the was a positive kind of trading but i think for me it definitely- but i think for me it definitely coincided _ but i think for me it definitely coincided with _ but i think for me it definitely coincided with it _ but i think for me it definitely coincided with it better- but i think for me it definitely coincided with it better be i but i think for me it definitely. coincided with it better be deaf but i think for me it definitely- coincided with it better be deaf and health. _ coincided with it better be deaf and health, definitely— coincided with it better be deaf and health, definitely being _ coincided with it better be deaf and health, definitely being part- coincided with it better be deaf and health, definitely being part of- coincided with it better be deaf and health, definitely being part of the| health, definitely being part of the queer— health, definitely being part of the queer community— health, definitely being part of the queer community where _ health, definitely being part of the queer community where body- health, definitely being part of the i queer community where body image, call the _ queer community where body image, call the guys — queer community where body image, call the guys are _ queer community where body image, call the guys are great. _ queer community where body image, call the guys are great. it _ queer community where body image, call the guys are great. it really- call the guys are great. it really -ot call the guys are great. it really got to— call the guys are great. it really got to me. _ call the guys are great. it really got to me, thanks _ call the guys are great. it really got to me, thanks to _ call the guys are great. it really got to me, thanks to the - call the guys are great. it really- got to me, thanks to the programme and the _ got to me, thanks to the programme and the article — got to me, thanks to the programme and the article on _ got to me, thanks to the programme and the article on the _ got to me, thanks to the programme and the article on the bbc— got to me, thanks to the programme and the article on the bbc i - got to me, thanks to the programme and the article on the bbc i have - and the article on the bbc i have 'ust and the article on the bbc i have just thrown— and the article on the bbc i have just thrown away— and the article on the bbc i have just thrown away the _ and the article on the bbc i have just thrown away the bottle - and the article on the bbc i have just thrown away the bottle and i and the article on the bbc i have i just thrown away the bottle and will not be _ just thrown away the bottle and will not be taking — just thrown away the bottle and will not be taking any— just thrown away the bottle and will not be taking any more, _ just thrown away the bottle and will not be taking any more, and - just thrown away the bottle and will not be taking any more, and luckily| not be taking any more, and luckily for me _ not be taking any more, and luckily for me which— not be taking any more, and luckily for me which is— not be taking any more, and luckily for me which is seven _ not be taking any more, and luckily for me which is seven days, - not be taking any more, and luckily for me which is seven days, but - not be taking any more, and luckilyj for me which is seven days, but the headaches — for me which is seven days, but the headaches have _ for me which is seven days, but the headaches have been— for me which is seven days, but the headaches have been wild - for me which is seven days, but the headaches have been wild without i for me which is seven days, but the . headaches have been wild without the programme, — headaches have been wild without the programme, and _ headaches have been wild without the programme, and i_ headaches have been wild without the programme, and i worry— headaches have been wild without the programme, and i worry about - headaches have been wild without the programme, and i worry about what l programme, and i worry about what would _ programme, and i worry about what would have — programme, and i worry about what
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would have happened. _ i felt like i was cheating on anything _ i felt like i was cheating on anything i_ i felt like i was cheating on anything i was _ i felt like i was cheating on anything i was doing - i felt like i was cheating on anything i was doing in- i felt like i was cheating on anything i was doing in thej i felt like i was cheating on- anything i was doing in the gym i was being — anything i was doing in the gym i was being a _ anything i was doing in the gym i was being a fraud. _ anything i was doing in the gym i was being a fraud. it— anything i was doing in the gym i was being a fraud. it actually- was being a fraud. it actually realty— was being a fraud. it actually realty got _ was being a fraud. it actually realty got to _ was being a fraud. it actually really got to me, _ was being a fraud. it actually really got to me, i _ was being a fraud. it actually really got to me, i did - was being a fraud. it actually really got to me, i did not. was being a fraud. it actually. really got to me, i did not feel was being a fraud. it actually- really got to me, i did not feel the emphasis — really got to me, i did not feel the emphasis att~ _ really got to me, i did not feel the emphasis all. and _ really got to me, i did not feel the emphasis all. and you _ really got to me, i did not feel the emphasis all. and you talk- really got to me, i did not feel the emphasis all. and you talk about i really got to me, i did not feel the . emphasis all. and you talk about the importance _ emphasis all. and you talk about the importance of— emphasis all. and you talk about the importance of body— emphasis all. and you talk about the importance of body image _ emphasis all. and you talk about the importance of body image and - emphasis all. and you talk about the i importance of body image and looking certainty~ _ importance of body image and looking certainly find — importance of body image and looking certainl . �* . . importance of body image and looking certainl. . . ,. .,, importance of body image and looking certainl. . . ,. ., certainly. and certain sections of the aueer certainly. and certain sections of the queer community. _ certainly. and certain sections of the queer community. in - certainly. and certain sections of the queer community. in that. the queer community. in that translates and relates to other communities, but where does that come from? we might a lot of it like previous collars of cider social media. just while i've been listening i have gone through my instagram, for example, and unfollowed all of these really toxic accou nts unfollowed all of these really toxic accounts where they look great but it is not real, regular bodies just
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don't look like that. if it is your full—time job and you're on every chemical under the sun, maybe it is attainable, achievable, but it is not real for normal people, in that series definitely when it comes from. make, what do you think about what you're hearing? —— mic. i am what you're hearing? -- mic. i am 58, left what you're hearing? -- mic. i am 58. left the _ what you're hearing? -- mic. i am 58, left the military _ what you're hearing? -- mic. i am 58, left the military police - what you're hearing? —— mic. i —n 58, left the military police when i was 21, became a body—builder. have been a body—builder for a was 21, became a body—builder. have been a body—builderfor a long time and given up now for about a year, so got a lot of experience both taking them, interestingly legally and illegally, 11 years ago i had a tumour that got cut out, can produce testosterone naturally any more, so also take it medically, so know
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everything about the effects both good and bad. sojust going back to why people do this. for me, arnold schwarzenegger, sylvester stallone, to remember all that stuff in the 805, body—building was a huge thing, but nowhere near as big as it is now. it has got completely out of control. for me and took me 45 minutes to get a gym, now i think i have six in my town. the whole world has completely changed. that have six in my town. the whole world has completely changed.— has completely changed. that is a aood has completely changed. that is a good thing. _ has completely changed. that is a good thing. lots — has completely changed. that is a good thing, lots of _ has completely changed. that is a good thing, lots of gems - has completely changed. that is a good thing, lots of gems are - has completely changed. that is a good thing, lots of gems are a - has completely changed. that is a l good thing, lots of gems are a good thing because people can go on and do normal exercise and normal physical activity, which is an obsessional, butjust keep fit and healthy. obsessional, but 'ust keep fit and health . ~ , , healthy. absolutely. the gym i was in, i train healthy. absolutely. the gym i was in. i train in — healthy. absolutely. the gym i was in. i train in a _ healthy. absolutely. the gym i was in, i train in a gym _ healthy. absolutely. the gym i was in, i train in a gym in _ healthy. absolutely. the gym i was in, i train in a gym in bracknell, - in, i train in a gym in bracknell, and it was in, i train in a gym in bracknell, and it wa5a in, i train in a gym in bracknell, and it was a proper spit and sawdust gem, people used to do squats and it taken an oxygen mask. it was that.
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that sort of crazy and there, and everyone was on them, i've lost friends, i've lost people through abusing steroids, so the difference now is it's really hard to get a hold of the soft back then, there is literally probably one guy in the area that could get it and it was in area that could get it and it was in a car park and now you canjust go on the internet by this stuff, so it is completely differently where you can get a hold of it and how accessible is, but two points i want to make, one is the effect it has on your mind, there is something that i didn't know existed, my therapist told me existed, big alexia, basically when you are continually looking at yourself in reflections and there is a new get used to being that begged and it is like anorexia, you don't actually see yourself as
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that big guy or big girl, so mentally you're never quite where you want to get a —— to. somebody sent me a picture on facebook yesterday of what used to look like, and i looked at that i thought, just what was i thinking? it took me about a year to get my head straight that actually i don't have to be a man, i don't have to be masculine, i don't need to be big in order to be who i am, and it took me about a yearto who i am, and it took me about a year to get through that process of actually understanding that you don't need to be massive, but i completely get why people do it, and i completely get the feeling it gives you as well. another point i want to make, if you are on proper steroids, made in a proper laboratory, you will get amazing... you will get the amazing feeling in the gym when you're on them, and you
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also get bigger a lot quicker the remember all the stuff people are bang on the internet, you have absolutely no idea where that is being manufactured. i have heard horror stories of people making in their bath, with olive oil. if you start injecting that stuff on your backside then you have no idea what process that has gone through to produce that stuff, you are literally dicing with death. i have also taken out, i had a proprietary trailer about 11 years ago i was diagnosed with not producing any testosterone —— tumour, i also ended up testosterone —— tumour, i also ended up having, going into the nurse and having an injection every eight weeks. and doing it naturally. and thatis weeks. and doing it naturally. and that is completely different from eating someone at the gym are buying of the internet and doing it yourself and thinking you are a doctor. it is a big difference. side effects. apart from the bigorexia
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part of it, i have also got mild cardiovascular disease, and just been told i have that. went to see the doctor, one of these side effects of taking steroids is that secondary blood, and increases your cholesterol. i've been into this for 35 years, no one ever told me that. whether or not that is cause for cardiovascular disease, it might not have done, but you have no idea unless you've got a doctor giving you the stuff you're doing improper courses, you have absolutely no idea what the stuff is doing to long term. i'mjust what the stuff is doing to long term. i'm just saying to everybody out there, it is not worth it. it is not worth it. you can be a man, you can be masculine, you can be an incredible human being without taking synthetic drugs. you just don't need it. but taking synthetic drugs. you 'ust don't need it.�* taking synthetic drugs. you 'ust don't need it. �* . . don't need it. but there are blurred edtes don't need it. but there are blurred edges between _
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don't need it. but there are blurred edges between motivation, - edges between motivation, inspiration and compulsion, and there? ~ , . inspiration and compulsion, and there? ~ ,~ , inspiration and compulsion, and there? ~ , there? absolutely and people say steroids are _ there? absolutely and people say steroids are not _ there? absolutely and people say steroids are not physically - steroids are not physically addictive, i tend to disagree with that, i think what you are addicted to is when you on a course, most people, i don't know if you know this most people, medically you today 6—8 week course and have the same time. that gives your body the chance to recover its natural testosterone levels, so that's how you should do it and that's how competitive body—builders to most of them are, they have a doctor looking at the receding levels and cholesterol levels and all of that, but within that eight weeks, you do feel a real high through it and get the pump and get bigger a lot quicker, so it is a few things, one is the feeling it gives you ofjust being a man and being manly and looking good among your peers.
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another one is, yeah, wejust have this built in thing and it goes back to the ancient greeks, and the guy if you come forward, one of the first body—builders, it all comes back to this image of the greek god and how you should look and actually what i've discovered in my life, now i am 58, as it does not matter, sure, stay in shape, absolutely, look after yourself, but you don't need to look like a greek god. you don't need — need to look like a greek god. you don't need to _ need to look like a greek god. you don't need to look like adonis. listen, this is a fantastic call, thank you very much indeed, a load of wisdom packed in. we'll be talking about men and mussels, that can't thank you enough. we could have put some more incredible calls on but did not time, i appreciate everyone getting in touch on that one, as ever.
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is just stopping sport 0k? we're talking aboutjust stop 0il. recently we've seen protesters disrupt wimbledon, the ashes and rugby union's premiership final. just stop 0il�*s lead funder dale vince has warned that more high—profile sport is on the organisation s target list. he says "the most effective protest is a disruptive one." but the boss of silverstone has warned campaigners that they are risking their lives if they trespass on to the track at the british grand prix this weekend. the policing minister chris philp says sports have been encouraged to hire more marshals and use injunctions to prevent protests. but the world is burning. recent science says it is out of control, climate change was that gary lineker has had some interesting things at a get—together, a conference, he said
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the just get—together, a conference, he said thejust stop 0il course is probably more important than disrupting a sport event. is just stopping sport 0k? what do you think? here is richard foster with the news. thousands of teachers in england are on strike for the second time this week in their dispute about pay. the independent pay review body is reported to have recommended a rise of 6.5%. the national education union says that might be enough to stop further walkouts. a woman in her 405 is still in custody following the death of an eight—year—old girl, who was hit when a car crashed into a school in wimbledon. she's being held on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving. a bbc investigation has found that illegal muscle—building supplements are being sold in shops across the uk.
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sarms aren't for human consumption but some of the shops selling them say they're confused about the regulations. house prices fell for the third month in a row injune, according to the mortgage lender the halifax. it says the annual fall of 2.6% is the largest drop for 12 years. is just stopping sport 0k? let's listen to the silverstone managing director stuart pringle talking on 5 live yesterday's. motorsport and formula 1 this weekend, compared with invading a flower show in chelsea or the outfield at lord's, there is a very high likelihood of serious injury or death. if you go and sit in front of a racing car that can do 200 miles
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an hour, it is a ridiculously reckless thing to put your own life and the drivers and spectators and marshalls�* lives at risk. this is not a place for people to behave in such a fashion. i would urge people not to be so stupid. the such a fashion. i would urge people not to be so stupid.— not to be so stupid. the just stop oil spokesperson _ not to be so stupid. the just stop oil spokesperson alex _ not to be so stupid. the just stop oil spokesperson alex to - not to be so stupid. the just stop oil spokesperson alex to koning l not to be so stupid. the just stop | oil spokesperson alex to koning is 0il spokesperson alex to koning is with us. oil spokesperson alex to koning is with us. ., . ~ oil spokesperson alex to koning is with us. ., . ,, , ., oil spokesperson alex to koning is with us. ., ., ~' ., oil spokesperson alex to koning is with us. ., . ,, , ., ., . with us. hello, thank you for having me on the show— with us. hello, thank you for having me on the show again. _ with us. hello, thank you for having me on the show again. i'm - with us. hello, thank you for having me on the show again. i'm a - with us. hello, thank you for having me on the show again. i'm a phd i me on the show again. i'm a phd climate scientist who called on monday and we had a good talk about it. i monday and we had a good talk about it. , ., . . it. i remember it well. you made a tellin: it. i remember it well. you made a telling contribution, _ it. i remember it well. you made a telling contribution, i _ it. i remember it well. you made a telling contribution, i seem - it. i remember it well. you made a telling contribution, i seem to - telling contribution, i seem to remember, colourfulat telling contribution, i seem to remember, colourful at one point! my remember, colourful at one point! iji apologies again. remember, colourful at one point! my apologies again. what _ remember, colourful at one point! my apologies again. what is _ remember, colourful at one point! my apologies again. what is planned - remember, colourful at one point! my apologies again. what is planned for i apologies again. what is planned for silverstone? — apologies again. what is planned for silverstone? i'm _ apologies again. what is planned for silverstone? i'm afraid _ apologies again. what is planned for silverstone? i'm afraid i _ apologies again. what is planned for silverstone? i'm afraid i don't - silverstone? i'm afraid i don't know. silverstone? i'm afraid i don't know- even — silverstone? i'm afraid i don't know. even if _ silverstone? i'm afraid i don't know. even if i _ silverstone? i'm afraid i don't know. even if i did _ silverstone? i'm afraid i don't know. even ifi did i— silverstone? i'm afraid i don't know. even ifi did i don't- silverstone? i'm afraid i don't. know. even ifi did i don't think silverstone? i'm afraid i don't i know. even ifi did i don't think| know. even if i did i don't think i would tell you, i'm afraid. i want to start off by saying that all our
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actions are well risk assessed, which is a lot more than can be said for the government licensing over 100 new oil and gas company licenses knowing full well what that means for crops, society and people. what for crops, society and people. what about the people _ for crops, society and people. what about the people who _ for crops, society and people. what about the people who say, i agree with this, i approve of the message. i am onside, i have read the science and know we have huge problems. but let me enjoy the sport at least? you are doing your cause irreparable harm. ~ i. are doing your cause irreparable harm. ~ . ., ., are doing your cause irreparable harm. . ., ., ., harm. we are not doing our cause irreparable _ harm. we are not doing our cause irreparable harm. _ harm. we are not doing our cause irreparable harm. it— harm. we are not doing our cause irreparable harm. it is— harm. we are not doing our cause irreparable harm. it is not - harm. we are not doing our cause irreparable harm. it is not fair- harm. we are not doing our cause irreparable harm. it is not fair to l irreparable harm. it is not fair to call it a cause, this is the survival of everyone. if people agree with the message but don't agree with the message but don't agree with the tactics, i mean, it's fabulous you agree with the message, please come and join a different group that does it differently, such as extinction rebellion, or the climate majority project, who don't
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take disruptive action. there is no excuse not to get involved in the fight. it involves everyone, everyone will be affected. if there were to be _ everyone will be affected. if there were to be a _ everyone will be affected. if there were to be a protest _ everyone will be affected. if there were to be a protest at _ everyone will be affected. if there i were to be a protest at silverstone, you would be all for it? yes. were to be a protest at silverstone, you would be all for it?— you would be all for it? yes. there was a protest _ you would be all for it? yes. there was a protest last _ you would be all for it? yes. there was a protest last year _ you would be all for it? yes. there was a protest last year at - was a protest last year at silverstone. it generated a lot of media output, which was fantastic. just a month before that we spent two weeks blocking all oil in the south—east of england, about 50% of all oil in the south—east of england, and that got nowhere near as much media coverage as when five people blocked silverstone for around seven seconds. what people blocked silverstone for around seven seconds. what do you sa to around seven seconds. what do you say to that. — around seven seconds. what do you say to that, graham _ around seven seconds. what do you say to that, graham benge, - around seven seconds. what do you say to that, graham benge, the - say to that, graham benge, the director of uk motor torque, a motorist helper information website. i think i would agree with the general— i think i would agree with the general aims i think i would agree with the generalaims of i think i would agree with the general aims of what is being proposed. i think is a motorsport
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fan and _ proposed. i think is a motorsport fan and motoring fan and so on, and the director— fan and motoring fan and so on, and the director of a website that is dealing — the director of a website that is dealing with motorists all the time, we all— dealing with motorists all the time, we all know we have got to go in a particular— we all know we have got to go in a particular direction, we all know that we — particular direction, we all know that we have to do reduce our reliance — that we have to do reduce our reliance upon oil, but i am particularly concerned that perhaps the people who come and the phrase risk assessment has already been used _ risk assessment has already been used by— risk assessment has already been used by the gentleman this morning, i am used by the gentleman this morning, i am not _ used by the gentleman this morning, i am not sure that possibly the people — i am not sure that possibly the people doing the risk assessment really— people doing the risk assessment really fully understand the potential dangers of a protest at silverstone. i have no problem with the protest — silverstone. i have no problem with the protest at silverstone and i don't _ the protest at silverstone and i don't think stuart pringle has. as lon- don't think stuart pringle has. as long as _ don't think stuart pringle has. as long as it— don't think stuart pringle has. as long as it doesn't involve crossing the track— long as it doesn't involve crossing the track or— long as it doesn't involve crossing the track or in some way disrupting the track or in some way disrupting the racing — the track or in some way disrupting the racing or the practice itself. i remember— the racing or the practice itself. i remember seeing many years ago, i think— remember seeing many years ago, i think it— remember seeing many years ago, i think it was — remember seeing many years ago, i think it was the early 805 at think it was the early 80s at silverstone, somebody did get over a trarrier— silverstone, somebody did get over a barrier and _ silverstone, somebody did get over a barrierand run silverstone, somebody did get over a barrier and run across in front of
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the cars — barrier and run across in front of the cars. they survived and they were _ the cars. they survived and they were very — the cars. they survived and they were very lucky because the marshall that chased them perhaps rather foolishly— that chased them perhaps rather foolishly also survived. that that chased them perhaps rather foolishly also survived.— that chased them perhaps rather foolishly also survived. that was a ro . ue foolishly also survived. that was a rogue catholic— foolishly also survived. that was a rogue catholic priest _ foolishly also survived. that was a rogue catholic priest many - foolishly also survived. that was a rogue catholic priest many years l rogue catholic priest many years ago, i think you're referring to. it was indeed. i don't remember the details. _ was indeed. i don't remember the details, sadly. but it was a very rash _ details, sadly. but it was a very rash act — details, sadly. but it was a very rash act and i am concerned that other— rash act and i am concerned that other people may be prepared to commit — other people may be prepared to commit such rash acts again. and it is not _ commit such rash acts again. and it is notjust— commit such rash acts again. and it is notjust the person concerned that might choose to run across the track _ that might choose to run across the track i_ that might choose to run across the track. i would that might choose to run across the track. iwould hope that might choose to run across the track. i would hope that the silverstone security would prevent that happening but nevertheless it's not impossible. so can they fully understand that a 200 mile an hour motor— understand that a 200 mile an hour motor doesn't stop instantlyjust motor doesn't stop instantly just because — motor doesn't stop instantlyjust because you are stood in front of it. because you are stood in front of it it _ because you are stood in front of
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it it will — because you are stood in front of it. it will take avoiding action. there — it. it will take avoiding action. there was— it. it will take avoiding action. there was a previous incident in italy— there was a previous incident in italy a _ there was a previous incident in italy a number of years ago, in the 70s i _ italy a number of years ago, in the 70s i think. — italy a number of years ago, in the 70s i think, where a driver was killed. — 70s i think, where a driver was killed. the _ 70s i think, where a driver was killed, the protester was killed, two marshals were killed and a couple — two marshals were killed and a couple of — two marshals were killed and a couple of members of the public, the viewing _ couple of members of the public, the viewing audience, were also killed. that sort— viewing audience, were also killed. that sort of— viewing audience, were also killed. that sort of action is so risky. i couldn't— that sort of action is so risky. i couldn't possibly countenance that. even though i do support their aims. and in— even though i do support their aims. and in conjunction with the rest of the industry it is very clear we have — the industry it is very clear we have to — the industry it is very clear we have to move away from oil. we have been _ have to move away from oil. we have been supporting as a website and across— been supporting as a website and across the — been supporting as a website and across the industry, we have been supporting — across the industry, we have been supporting electronic vehicles over the best— supporting electronic vehicles over the best part of the decades now, trying _ the best part of the decades now, trying to— the best part of the decades now, trying to show a way forward. that is the _ trying to show a way forward. that is the way — trying to show a way forward. that is the way the industry is going. let's _ is the way the industry is going. let's talk— is the way the industry is going. let's talk about the protests. martin on merseyside, hello. hello.
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we have alex _ martin on merseyside, hello. hello. we have alex from _ martin on merseyside, hello. hello. we have alex from just _ martin on merseyside, hello. hello. we have alex from just stop - martin on merseyside, hello. hello. we have alex from just stop oil. - we have alex from just stop 0il. what do you say to him about the protests and the methods for getting the message across? you protests and the methods for getting the message across?— protests and the methods for getting the message across? you have stopped thins the message across? you have stopped thin t s such the message across? you have stopped things such as — the message across? you have stopped things such as the _ the message across? you have stopped things such as the ashes, _ the message across? you have stopped things such as the ashes, i _ the message across? you have stopped things such as the ashes, i say - the message across? you have stopped things such as the ashes, i say you - things such as the ashes, i say you have _ things such as the ashes, i say you have stopped — things such as the ashes, i say you have stopped them, _ things such as the ashes, i say you have stopped them, you _ things such as the ashes, i say you have stopped them, you have - have stopped them, you have disrupted _ have stopped them, you have disrupted them. _ have stopped them, you have disrupted them. you - have stopped them, you have disrupted them. you have - have stopped them, you have - disrupted them. you have disrupted the snooker — disrupted them. you have disrupted the snooker. you _ disrupted them. you have disrupted the snooker. you have _ disrupted them. you have disrupted the snooker. you have disrupted - disrupted them. you have disrupted| the snooker. you have disrupted the rugby— the snooker. you have disrupted the rugby union— the snooker. you have disrupted the rugby union championship. - the snooker. you have disrupted the rugby union championship. you - rugby union championship. you disrupted — rugby union championship. you disrupted football. _ rugby union championship. you disrupted football. i— rugby union championship. you disrupted football. i would - rugby union championship. you disrupted football. i would love| rugby union championship. you . disrupted football. i would love for you to _ disrupted football. i would love for you to try— disrupted football. i would love for you to try this _ disrupted football. i would love for you to try this at _ disrupted football. i would love for you to try this at the _ disrupted football. i would love for you to try this at the rugby - disrupted football. i would love for you to try this at the rugby league | you to try this at the rugby league grand _ you to try this at the rugby league grand final— you to try this at the rugby league grand final in _ you to try this at the rugby league grand final in 99 _ you to try this at the rugby league grand final in 99 days' _ you to try this at the rugby league grand final in 99 days' time. - you to try this at the rugby league grand final in 99 days' time. you i grand final in 99 days' time. you wouldn't — grand final in 99 days' time. you wouldn't survive _ grand final in 99 days' time. you wouldn't survive if _ grand final in 99 days' time. you wouldn't survive if you _ grand final in 99 days' time. you wouldn't survive if you did - grand final in 99 days' time. you wouldn't survive if you did it - wouldn't survive if you did it because _ wouldn't survive if you did it because the _ wouldn't survive if you did it because the crowd - wouldn't survive if you did it because the crowd would i wouldn't survive if you did it i because the crowd would turn on wouldn't survive if you did it - because the crowd would turn on you. of because the crowd would turn on you. of course, _ because the crowd would turn on you. of course, you — because the crowd would turn on you. of course, you probably _ because the crowd would turn on you. of course, you probably don't - because the crowd would turn on you. of course, you probably don't know. of course, you probably don't know that there — of course, you probably don't know that there is — of course, you probably don't know that there is a _ of course, you probably don't know that there is a rugby _ of course, you probably don't know that there is a rugby league - of course, you probably don't know that there is a rugby league code i that there is a rugby league code going _ that there is a rugby league code going on— that there is a rugby league code going on because _ that there is a rugby league code going on because it— that there is a rugby league code going on because it is— that there is a rugby league code going on because it is more i that there is a rugby league code i going on because it is more focused on union. _ going on because it is more focused on union. but— going on because it is more focused on union. but i_ going on because it is more focused on union, but i would _ going on because it is more focused on union, but i would love - going on because it is more focused on union, but i would love for- going on because it is more focused on union, but i would love for you . on union, but i would love for you to try— on union, but i would love for you to try and — on union, but i would love for you to try and stop— on union, but i would love for you to try and stop us. _ on union, but i would love for you to try and stop us. go _ on union, but i would love for you to try and stop us. go ahead i on union, but i would love for you to try and stop us. go ahead andi on union, but i would love for you i to try and stop us. go ahead and try it, to try and stop us. go ahead and try
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it. pal~ _ to try and stop us. go ahead and try it, al. i. i, it, pal. thanks for the recommendation. i. it, pal. thanks for the l recommendation. i will it, pal. thanks for the i recommendation. i will look it, pal. thanks for the _ recommendation. i will look into it. you wouldn't survive, a bunch of people _ you wouldn't survive, a bunch of people from _ you wouldn't survive, a bunch of people from northern _ you wouldn't survive, a bunch of people from northern england. i you wouldn't survive, a bunch of i people from northern england. can you wouldn't survive, a bunch of people from northern england. can we sto talkin people from northern england. can we stop talking about _ people from northern england. can we stop talking about hypotheticals. i people from northern england. can we stop talking about hypotheticals. 10 i stop talking about hypotheticals. 10 million people couldn't leave their homes in new york recently because of wildfires in canada. we are facing up to a0 degrees again this summer. 1700 people died last summer when we reached a0 celsius. if we compare that to the deaths from the afghanistan and iraq wars, 636, it doesn't compare at all. we need to prepare for the worst and take action on the climate crisis so we are not getting a0 degrees summers every year and we can't grow food. by every year and we can't grow food. by definition the protest is successful because the media are talking about it. martin, are the people in rugby league not concerned about their children in the future
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of the planet? let's go to stoke—on—trent and speak to ewan. are you there? stoke-on-trent and speak to ewan. are you there?— stoke-on-trent and speak to ewan. are you there?_ martin, i are you there? yes, i am. martin, should we — are you there? yes, i am. martin, should we not _ are you there? yes, i am. martin, should we not all— are you there? yes, i am. martin, should we not all care _ are you there? yes, i am. martin, should we not all care about i are you there? yes, i am. martin, should we not all care about this? | should we not all care about this? do you not say, it is disruptive, some people argue, but that's the point. we need to get the message across. we are in a desperate situation, martin.— across. we are in a desperate situation, martin. yeah, i get what ou sa , situation, martin. yeah, i get what you say. and _ situation, martin. yeah, i get what you say. and we — situation, martin. yeah, i get what you say, and we do _ situation, martin. yeah, i get what you say, and we do actually - situation, martin. yeah, i get what you say, and we do actually care i situation, martin. yeah, i get what| you say, and we do actually care for the people — you say, and we do actually care for the people of— you say, and we do actually care for the people of our— you say, and we do actually care for the people of our generation, - you say, and we do actually care for the people of our generation, the i the people of our generation, the next generation— the people of our generation, the next generation and _ the people of our generation, the next generation and what - the people of our generation, the next generation and what have i the people of our generation, the i next generation and what have you. i certainly _ next generation and what have you. i certainly do — next generation and what have you. i certainly do we _ next generation and what have you. i certainly do. i've got _ next generation and what have you. i certainly do. i've got a _ next generation and what have you. i certainly do. i've got a little - next generation and what have you. i certainly do. i've got a little boy. i certainly do. i've got a little boy. i certainly do. i've got a little boy. i want _ certainly do. i've got a little boy. i want him — certainly do. i've got a little boy. i want him to— certainly do. i've got a little boy. i want him to grow— certainly do. i've got a little boy. i want him to grow up _ certainly do. i've got a little boy. i want him to grow up to- certainly do. i've got a little boy. i want him to grow up to be i certainly do. i've got a little boy. i i want him to grow up to be happy. i'll i want him to grow up to be happy. i'll tell— i want him to grow up to be happy. i'll tell you — i want him to grow up to be happy. i'll tell you something _ i want him to grow up to be happy. i'll tell you something else, - i want him to grow up to be happy. i'll tell you something else, we i i'll tell you something else, we don't _ i'll tell you something else, we don't really~~~ _ i'll tell you something else, we don't reallym '— i'll tell you something else, we don't really... i say— i'll tell you something else, we don't really... i say we - i'll tell you something else, we don't really... i say we don't. i'll tell you something else, we i don't really... i say we don't care, we do. _ don't really... i say we don't care, we do. but — don't really... i say we don't care, we do. but we _ don't really... i say we don't care, we do, but we care _ don't really... i say we don't care, we do, but we care about - don't really... i say we don't care, we do, but we care about it- don't really... i say we don't care, we do, but we care about it in- don't really... i say we don't care, we do, but we care about it in our| we do, but we care about it in our own— we do, but we care about it in our own way — we do, but we care about it in our own way there _ we do, but we care about it in our own way. there are _ we do, but we care about it in our own way. there are some - we do, but we care about it in our own way. there are some wildfirej own way. there are some wildfire going _ own way. there are some wildfire going on— own way. there are some wildfire going on in— own way. there are some wildfire going on in canada. _ own way. there are some wildfire going on in canada. 0k, - own way. there are some wildfire going on in canada. ok, that's i going on in canada. ok, that's nothing — going on in canada. ok, that's nothing really— going on in canada. ok, that's nothing really to _ going on in canada. ok, that's nothing really to do _ going on in canada. ok, that's nothing really to do with - going on in canada. ok, that's nothing really to do with just i going on in canada. ok, that's i nothing really to do with just stop 0il, nothing really to do with just stop oil. is _ nothing really to do with just stop oil. is it? — nothing really to do with just stop oil, is it? that's— nothing really to do with just stop oil, is it? that's not— nothing really to do with just stop oil, is it? that's not the - nothing really to do with just stop oil, is it? that's not the oil- oil, is it? that's not the oil company's _ oil, is it? that's not the oil company's fault _ oil, is it? that's not the oil company's fault that - oil, is it? that's not the oil company's fault that it i oil, is it? that's not the oil company's fault that it is i oil, is it? that's not the oil- company's fault that it is going on. can i_
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company's fault that it is going on. can ii'ust _ company's fault that it is going on. can ijust interrupt— company's fault that it is going on. can ijust interrupt there, - company's fault that it is going on. can ijust interrupt there, please? | can ijust interrupt there, please? it is directly related to sub the more oil and gas that is burnt, the more oil and gas that is burnt, the more carbon dioxide is released so the warmer the higher earth gets, the warmer the higher earth gets, the land becomes drier and the more likelihood of wildfires. the wildfires in canada, if there wasn't climate crisis, the area burnt would have been about 12 times smaller thanit have been about 12 times smaller than it was and it would have been about 200 times less likely to happen. so yes, this is a direct result of the climate crisis. flan happen. so yes, this is a direct result of the climate crisis. can i ask this fella. _ result of the climate crisis. can i ask this fella, have _ result of the climate crisis. can i ask this fella, have you - result of the climate crisis. can i ask this fella, have you learned | result of the climate crisis. can i ask this fella, have you learned to drive? _ ask this fella, have you learned to drive? ., ask this fella, have you learned to drive? i, i, �* ask this fella, have you learned to drive? ., . �* ., �* , drive? no, i haven't. i don't see how that's _ drive? no, i haven't. i don't see how that's relevant. _ drive? no, i haven't. i don't see how that's relevant. it _ drive? no, i haven't. i don't see how that's relevant. it is - drive? no, i haven't. i don't see how that's relevant. it is a i drive? no, i haven't. i don't see how that's relevant. it is a casel how that's relevant. it is a case of, 'ust how that's relevant. it is a case of. just pp _ how that's relevant. it is a case of. just up the _ how that's relevant. it is a case of, just up the oil, _ how that's relevant. it is a case of, just up the oil, you - how that's relevant. it is a case of, just up the oil, you need i how that's relevant. it is a case of, just up the oil, you need to| of, just up the oil, you need to stop— of, just up the oil, you need to stop using _ of, just up the oil, you need to stop using every _ of, just up the oil, you need to stop using every form - of, just up the oil, you need to stop using every form of - of, just up the oil, you need to stop using every form of oil i of, just up the oil, you need to- stop using every form of oil going. we are _ stop using every form of oil going. we are talking _ stop using every form of oil going. we are talking about _ stop using every form of oil going. we are talking about crop - stop using every form of oil going. we are talking about crop failure. i we are talking about crop failure. it's just stop we are talking about crop failure. it'sjust stop oil, we are talking about crop failure. it's just stop oil, mate.
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we are talking about crop failure. it'sjust stop oil, mate. how we are talking about crop failure. it's just stop oil, mate. how is it'sjust stop oil, mate. how is crop _ it'sjust stop oil, mate. how is crop failure _ it'sjust stop oil, mate. how is crop failure and _ it'sjust stop oil, mate. how is crop failure and issue - it'sjust stop oil, mate. how is crop failure and issue to - it'sjust stop oil, mate. how is crop failure and issue to do i it'sjust stop oil, mate. how is. crop failure and issue to do with just stop— crop failure and issue to do with just stop oil? _ crop failure and issue to do with just stop oil? l— crop failure and issue to do with just stop oil?— crop failure and issue to do with just stop oil? i want to explore, and this is _ just stop oil? i want to explore, and this is at _ just stop oil? i want to explore, and this is at the _ just stop oil? i want to explore, and this is at the heart - just stop oil? i want to explore, and this is at the heart of- just stop oil? i want to explore, and this is at the heart of it, i i and this is at the heart of it, i want to explore the support for the protests, which are, as i said, by definition, successful to an extent in their room to get more publicity for it. is it counter—productive, will it turn people off the actual message because of their fury, will it turn people off the actual message because of theirfury, anger and feelings that their lives are being disrupted will trump things? and also some people might argue that it and also some people might argue thatitis and also some people might argue that it is a lot better that these kinds of things are happening than ambulances being blocked on the m25 or whatever. we want your views on this. �* . i. i . or whatever. we want your views on this. ,. . , ., or whatever. we want your views on this. ,. . , . , this. ambulances have never been blocked. this. ambulances have never been blocked- lf — this. ambulances have never been blocked. if you're _ this. ambulances have never been blocked. if you're watching - this. ambulances have never been blocked. if you're watching on i this. ambulances have never been} blocked. if you're watching on bbc two, blocked. if you're watching on bbc two. politics _ blocked. if you're watching on bbc two, politics live _ blocked. if you're watching on bbc two, politics live is _ blocked. if you're watching on bbc two, politics live is next _ blocked. if you're watching on bbc two, politics live is next and - blocked. if you're watching on bbc two, politics live is next and we i two, politics live is next and we will continue this conversation on bbc news, 5 live and bbc sounds. please get in touch with us. that's
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coming up. you made the point about the ambulance. some people say yes or no, it is a moot point. geoff in abergavenny. what do you think? i am abergavenny. what do you think? i am a bit amazed- — abergavenny. what do you think? i am a bit amazed- my _ abergavenny. what do you think? i am a bit amazed. my view, and i know it is shared _ a bit amazed. my view, and i know it is shared by— a bit amazed. my view, and i know it is shared by many of my friends, is that these — is shared by many of my friends, is that these actions are taken by a very elite — that these actions are taken by a very elite group of people. are they living _ very elite group of people. are they living in_ very elite group of people. are they living in the real world? we are a small_ living in the real world? we are a small country, fine, and we set an example _ small country, fine, and we set an example to — small country, fine, and we set an example to the rest of the world. however. — example to the rest of the world. however, there is a lot more pollution _ however, there is a lot more pollution going on in china and other— pollution going on in china and other big — pollution going on in china and other big countries, india. what these _ other big countries, india. what these people are doing, we don't all live in_ these people are doing, we don't all live in big _ these people are doing, we don't all live in big cities. people need
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vehicles — live in big cities. people need vehicles to get from a to b, to get to work_ vehicles to get from a to b, to get to work and — vehicles to get from a to b, to get to work and to do their shopping. and we _ to work and to do their shopping. and we all— to work and to do their shopping. and we all work, or have worked, and we'd like _ and we all work, or have worked, and we'd like to— and we all work, or have worked, and we'd like to go to leisure facilities, that is to say, the tennis. _ facilities, that is to say, the tennis, the snooker, football, rugby — tennis, the snooker, football, rugby. and all these people are doing _ rugby. and all these people are doing is— rugby. and all these people are doing is sort of disrupting it. there — doing is sort of disrupting it. there has— doing is sort of disrupting it. there has to be a different way of doing _ there has to be a different way of doing this — there has to be a different way of doing this. i hear now on your programme that they are thinking of going _ programme that they are thinking of going to _ programme that they are thinking of going to a _ programme that they are thinking of going to a grand prix. well, flipping _ going to a grand prix. well, flipping heck, as somebody has already— flipping heck, as somebody has already said, these cars are going out 200 _ already said, these cars are going out 200 miles an hour and they don't stop instantly if somebody steps in front of— stop instantly if somebody steps in front of them.— front of them. people will say that china is building _ front of them. people will say that china is building more _ front of them. people will say that china is building more wind - front of them. people will say that china is building more wind farms| china is building more wind farms than any other country. china is way ahead when it comes to building wind farms and we should surely lead by
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example. l farms and we should surely lead by examle. .. �* , example. i don't mind building wind farms, i example. i don't mind building wind farms. i don't _ example. i don't mind building wind farms, i don't have _ example. i don't mind building wind farms, i don't have a _ example. i don't mind building wind farms, i don't have a problem - example. i don't mind building wind farms, i don't have a problem with l farms, i don't have a problem with that _ farms, i don't have a problem with that. ~ ., farms, i don't have a problem with that. ~ . ., . , | farms, i don't have a problem with that-_ i do i that. we are global leaders. i do have a problem _ that. we are global leaders. i do have a problem with _ that. we are global leaders. i do have a problem with people - have a problem with people disrupting and stopping emergency vehicles _ disrupting and stopping emergency vehicles. my wife recently came out of hospital— vehicles. my wife recently came out of hospital and i know howl vehicles. my wife recently came out of hospital and i know how i rate i would _ of hospital and i know how i rate i would have — of hospital and i know how i rate i would have been if i had been on the m25 stuck— would have been if i had been on the m25 stuck in an ambulance waiting to -et m25 stuck in an ambulance waiting to get to— m25 stuck in an ambulance waiting to get to a _ m25 stuck in an ambulance waiting to get to a hospital. or waiting for somebody to attend to an emergency. i somebody to attend to an emergency. | -et somebody to attend to an emergency. i get it _ somebody to attend to an emergency. i get it. somebody said they wanted say something. come on in, ewan in stoke—on—trent. say something. come on in, ewan in stoke-on-trent._ say something. come on in, ewan in stoke-on-trent. negotiations between them and the — stoke-on-trent. negotiations between them and the oil _ stoke-on-trent. negotiations between them and the oil protesters, _ stoke-on-trent. negotiations between them and the oil protesters, the - them and the oil protesters, the authorities. _ them and the oil protesters, the authorities, it _ them and the oil protesters, the authorities, it has _ them and the oil protesters, the authorities, it has never- them and the oil protesters, the authorities, it has never been i authorities, it has never been tried. — authorities, it has never been tried. trut— authorities, it has never been tried. but a _ authorities, it has never been tried, but a negotiation - authorities, it has never been i tried, but a negotiation between authorities, it has never been - tried, but a negotiation between the two, tried, but a negotiation between the two. why— tried, but a negotiation between the two. why couldn't _ tried, but a negotiation between the two, why couldn't we _ tried, but a negotiation between the two, why couldn't we be _ tried, but a negotiation between the two, why couldn't we be letting - two, why couldn't we be letting ambulances _ two, why couldn't we be letting ambulances through _ two, why couldn't we be letting ambulances through thick - two, why couldn't we be letting ambulances through thick if - two, why couldn't we be letting ambulances through thick if it l two, why couldn't we be letting| ambulances through thick if it is that much— ambulances through thick if it is that much of— ambulances through thick if it is that much of an _ ambulances through thick if it is that much of an emergency? i ambulances through thick if it is - that much of an emergency? surely a bit of— that much of an emergency? surely a bit of common —
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that much of an emergency? surely a bit of common sense. _ that much of an emergency? surely a bit of common sense. this _ that much of an emergency? surely a bit of common sense. this chap - that much of an emergency? surely a bit of common sense. this chap will i bit of common sense. this chap will carry— bit of common sense. this chap will carry on— bit of common sense. this chap will carry on how— bit of common sense. this chap will carry on now regarding _ bit of common sense. this chap will carry on now regarding not - bit of common sense. this chap will carry on now regarding not letting l carry on now regarding not letting ambulances— carry on now regarding not letting ambulances through. _ carry on now regarding not letting ambulances through. it _ carry on now regarding not letting ambulances through. it is - carry on now regarding not letting ambulances through. it is a - ambulances through. it is a possibility— ambulances through. it is a possibility to _ ambulances through. it is a possibility to be _ ambulances through. it is al possibility to be negotiated. ambulances through. it is a possibility to be negotiated. alex? we don't block _ possibility to be negotiated. alex? we don't block ambulances. - possibility to be negotiated. alex? we don't block ambulances. we i possibility to be negotiated- we don't block ambulances. we did possibility to be negotiated— we don't block ambulances. we did a freedom of information request on london emergency services and no emergency service has been blocked for any meaningful amount of time. that is what the right—wing media is projecting. l that is what the right-wing media is -~ro'ectin. �* ~' .. that is what the right-wing media is -~ro'ectin. �* ,, ., . that is what the right-wing media is proiecting-_ lt - projecting. i didn't know that. it has been very — projecting. i didn't know that. it has been very disruptive - projecting. i didn't know that. it has been very disruptive for- has been very disruptive for people's lives as they go about trying to do their business. l people's lives as they go about trying to do their business. i don't doubt that- _ trying to do their business. i don't doubt that. all— trying to do their business. i don't doubt that. all we _ trying to do their business. i don't doubt that. all we are _ trying to do their business. i don't doubt that. all we are saying - trying to do their business. i don't doubt that. all we are saying is i doubt that. all we are saying is ma be doubt that. all we are saying is maybe peeple _ doubt that. all we are saying is maybe people should - doubt that. all we are saying is maybe people should be - doubt that. all we are saying is maybe people should be more| doubt that. all we are saying is - maybe people should be more relaxed about this because it is only a sporting event. that's one argument we are hearing, does not disrupting people's lives, it is a few moments of disruption in a sporting event. that's the argument i hear from some people. what will we hearfrom sarah in liverpool and joyce in glasgow? i
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can't wait. , , in liverpool and joyce in glasgow? i can't wait. , . .. .. in liverpool and joyce in glasgow? i can't wait. , . .. can't wait. joyce, good morning. hello, i can't wait. joyce, good morning. hello. i am _ can't wait. joyce, good morning. hello. i am a — can't wait. joyce, good morning. hello, i am a big _ can't wait. joyce, good morning. hello, i am a big admirer. - can't wait. joyce, good morning. j hello, i am a big admirer. that's nice. hello, i am a big admirer. that's nice- are — hello, i am a big admirer. that's nice- are you _ hello, i am a big admirer. that's nice. are you a _ hello, i am a big admirer. that's nice. are you a big _ hello, i am a big admirer. that's nice. are you a big admirer- hello, i am a big admirer. that's nice. are you a big admirer of. hello, i am a big admirer. that's| nice. are you a big admirer of the tactics ofjust stop oil? his. nice. are you a big admirer of the tactics ofjust stop oil?— nice. are you a big admirer of the tactics ofjust stop oil? no, i am a big admirer _ tactics ofjust stop oil? no, i am a big admirer of _ tactics ofjust stop oil? no, i am a big admirer of nicky _ tactics ofjust stop oil? no, i am a big admirer of nicky campbell. - tactics ofjust stop oil? no, i am a big admirer of nicky campbell. i i big admirer of nicky campbell. i despise — big admirer of nicky campbell. i despise just stop oil. he big admirer of nicky campbell. i despise just stop oil.— big admirer of nicky campbell. i despise just stop oil. he won't say that when your _ despise just stop oil. he won't say that when your grandkids - despise just stop oil. he won't say that when your grandkids are - despise just stop oil. he won't say l that when your grandkids are dying, will you? _ that when your grandkids are dying, will you? let— that when your grandkids are dying, will ou? _, that when your grandkids are dying, will ou? __. . that when your grandkids are dying, will ou? . will you? let joyce have her say first. as someone _ will you? let joyce have her say first. as someone who - will you? let joyce have her say first. as someone who has - will you? let joyce have her say i first. as someone who has studied cueolo , first. as someone who has studied geology. and _ first. as someone who has studied geology. and l _ first. as someone who has studied geology, and i continue _ first. as someone who has studied geology, and i continue to - first. as someone who has studied geology, and i continue to do - first. as someone who has studied geology, and i continue to do so, l geology, and i continue to do so, the fact— geology, and i continue to do so, the fact of— geology, and i continue to do so, the fact of the matter is the whole earth _ the fact of the matter is the whole earth has — the fact of the matter is the whole earth has been covered in ice at one point _ earth has been covered in ice at one point the _ earth has been covered in ice at one point. the whole earth has been very hot, point. the whole earth has been very hot. which _ point. the whole earth has been very hot. which is — point. the whole earth has been very hot, which is why we have fossil fuels _ hot, which is why we have fossil fuels in — hot, which is why we have fossil fuels in the _ hot, which is why we have fossil fuels in the first place. this is nature~ — fuels in the first place. this is nature. the fact of the matter is, those _ nature. the fact of the matter is, those of — nature. the fact of the matter is, those of us — nature. the fact of the matter is, those of us who are not very well off, and — those of us who are not very well off, and i— those of us who are not very well off, and i am on a very low income. when— off, and i am on a very low income. whenl— off, and i am on a very low income. when i save — off, and i am on a very low income. when i save up for three months to id when i save up for three months to go to— when i save up for three months to go to a _ when i save up for three months to go to a sporting event, like i did last year— go to a sporting event, like i did last year when i went to the davis cup. _ last year when i went to the davis cup. i— last year when i went to the davis cup. i got — last year when i went to the davis cup, i got to meet everybody except
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jamie _ cup, i got to meet everybody except jamie murray. that won't happen because — jamie murray. that won't happen because these just stop oil people are going — because these just stop oil people are going to put up all the prices because — are going to put up all the prices because of— are going to put up all the prices because of the extra security. we are not— because of the extra security. we are not going to get to meet our heroes— are not going to get to meet our heroes because of extra security, because — heroes because of extra security, because we all know security men are the most _ because we all know security men are the most lovable people in the world, — the most lovable people in the world, don't we?! they are not attacking — world, don't we?! they are not attacking the people who make the oil. attacking the people who make the oil they _ attacking the people who make the oil. they are cowardly. i believe they— oil. they are cowardly. i believe they are — oil. they are cowardly. i believe they are right—wing in their own way stop its _ they are right—wing in their own way stop it's awful, what they are doing. — stop it's awful, what they are doing. it _ stop it's awful, what they are doing, it really is, and it makes my blood _ doing, it really is, and it makes my blood boil — doing, it really is, and it makes my blood boil i— doing, it really is, and it makes my blood boil. lam doing, it really is, and it makes my blood boil. i am watching wimbledon...— blood boil. i am watching wimbledon... ., , , wimbledon... the world is burning, talkin: of wimbledon... the world is burning, talking of boiling. _ wimbledon... the world is burning, talking of boiling. that's _ wimbledon... the world is burning, talking of boiling. that's what - wimbledon... the world is burning, talking of boiling. that's what the i talking of boiling. that's what the scientists say. let's cut this one off at the pass. it's friday. there is massive, massive, reading the ipcc report, there is overwhelming political consensus that this is anthropogenic and this is happening to stop the argument you should be
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making, joyce, if i were your media advisor, would be the following. yes, it is happening, yes, it is terrifying, but you know what, don't do it at sporting events because it is a bit of escapism for us in this miserable context. we are worried about the cost of living. you turn on the news to get misery, misery, misery. you turn on the radio and depression, depression, depression. let's go to wimbledon, have a couple of hours of escapism and enjoy it. and we will engage. that should be your message, joyce, as your personal media adviser for stop when you come in and say it's not happening, it's not the case, it has always happened, there has always been ice, that's where we got fossils, you have lost the argument, joyce. i love you, joyce, but you have lost the argument. you joyce. i love you, joyce, but you have lost the argument. you have got to follow the — have lost the argument. you have got to follow the science. _ have lost the argument. you have got to follow the science. they _ have lost the argument. you have got to follow the science. they are - have lost the argument. you have got to follow the science. they are only . to follow the science. they are only attackin: to follow the science. they are only attacking us — to follow the science. they are only attacking us little _ to follow the science. they are only attacking us little people. - to follow the science. they are only attacking us little people. that's i attacking us little people. that's what's _ attacking us little people. that's what's annoying me.— what's annoying me. sarah in
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liverpool- — what's annoying me. sarah in liverpool. save _ what's annoying me. sarah in liverpool. save me _ what's annoying me. sarah in liverpool. save me from i what's annoying me. sarah in i liverpool. save me from myself. what's annoying me. sarah in - liverpool. save me from myself. good morning. liverpool. save me from myself. good morninu. liverpool. save me from myself. good mornin., .. liverpool. save me from myself. good morninu. .. ., . , ., morning. good morning. contrary to what some people — morning. good morning. contrary to what some people think, _ morning. good morning. contrary to what some people think, we i morning. good morning. contrary to what some people think, we are i morning. good morning. contrary to what some people think, we are in l what some people think, we are in the climate — what some people think, we are in the climate crisis. _ what some people think, we are in the climate crisis. i— what some people think, we are in the climate crisis. i can _ what some people think, we are in the climate crisis. i can say- what some people think, we are in the climate crisis. i can say that. the climate crisis. i can say that without — the climate crisis. i can say that without fear _ the climate crisis. i can say that without fear or— the climate crisis. i can say that without fear or favour. - the climate crisis. i can say that without fear or favour. living i the climate crisis. i can say that- without fear or favour. living where i live, _ without fear or favour. living where i live, i_ without fear or favour. living where i live, i know — without fear or favour. living where i live, i know the _ without fear or favour. living where i live, i know the average _ i live, i know the average temperature, _ i live, i know the average temperature, when- i live, i know the average temperature, when it i i live, i know the average temperature, when it is i i live, i know the average i temperature, when it is hot in merseyside _ temperature, when it is hot in merseyside it _ temperature, when it is hot in merseyside it should - temperature, when it is hot in merseyside it should be i temperature, when it is hot in merseyside it should be about temperature, when it is hot in i merseyside it should be about 20 degrees — merseyside it should be about 20 degrees not— merseyside it should be about 20 degrees not 25_ merseyside it should be about 20 degrees. not 25 and _ merseyside it should be about 20 degrees. not 25 and 30, - merseyside it should be about 20 degrees. not 25 and 30, where i merseyside it should be about 20 l degrees. not 25 and 30, where you are seeing — degrees. not 25 and 30, where you are seeing the— degrees. not 25 and 30, where you are seeing the birds— degrees. not 25 and 30, where you are seeing the birds flying - degrees. not 25 and 30, where you are seeing the birds flying with- degrees. not 25 and 30, where you are seeing the birds flying with icel are seeing the birds flying with ice packs _ are seeing the birds flying with ice packs under— are seeing the birds flying with ice packs under one _ are seeing the birds flying with ice packs under one wing _ are seeing the birds flying with ice packs under one wing and - are seeing the birds flying with ice packs under one wing and an i are seeing the birds flying with ice i packs under one wing and an inhaler under— packs under one wing and an inhaler under the _ packs under one wing and an inhaler under the other— packs under one wing and an inhaler under the other because _ packs under one wing and an inhaler under the other because they- packs under one wing and an inhaler under the other because they can't i under the other because they can't breathe _ under the other because they can't breathe let's_ under the other because they can't breathe. let's get _ under the other because they can't breathe. let's get that _ under the other because they can't breathe. let's get that straight i under the other because they can't breathe. let's get that straight for| breathe. let's get that straight for stop and _ breathe. let's get that straight for stop and the — breathe. let's get that straight for stop and the locals _ breathe. let's get that straight for stop and the locals are _ breathe. let's get that straight for stop and the locals are not - breathe. let's get that straight for stop and the locals are not far- stop and the locals are not far behind — stop and the locals are not far behind. anything _ stop and the locals are not far behind. anything over- stop and the locals are not far behind. anything over 20, i stop and the locals are not far behind. anything over20, we| stop and the locals are not far- behind. anything over 20, we don't function _ behind. anything over 20, we don't function to — behind. anything over 20, we don't function to be _ behind. anything over 20, we don't function. to be honest, _ behind. anything over 20, we don't function. to be honest, that - behind. anything over 20, we don't function. to be honest, that goes i function. to be honest, that goes for britain — function. to be honest, that goes for britain and _ function. to be honest, that goes for britain and ireland, _ function. to be honest, that goes for britain and ireland, we - function. to be honest, that goes for britain and ireland, we don't. for britain and ireland, we don't cope _ for britain and ireland, we don't cope well— for britain and ireland, we don't cope well with _ for britain and ireland, we don't cope well with heat. _ for britain and ireland, we don't cope well with heat. and - for britain and ireland, we don'tj cope well with heat. and people don't _ cope well with heat. and people don't realise _ cope well with heat. and people don't realise that. _ cope well with heat. and people don't realise that. that's- cope well with heat. and people don't realise that. that's the i don't realise that. that's the entree _ don't realise that. that's the entree. here _ don't realise that. that's the entree. here is— don't realise that. that's the entree. here is the - don't realise that. that's the entree. here is the main- don't realise that. that's the i entree. here is the main course. i -et entree. here is the main course. i get what — entree. here is the main course. i get what just _ entree. here is the main course. i get what just stop _ entree. here is the main course. i get what just stop oil— entree. here is the main course. i get what just stop oil is _ entree. here is the main course. i get what just stop oil is doing i entree. here is the main course. i| get what just stop oil is doing and i know— get what just stop oil is doing and i know that — get what just stop oil is doing and
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i know that the _ get what just stop oil is doing and i know that the climate _ get what just stop oil is doing and i know that the climate change i get what just stop oil is doing and i know that the climate change is. get what just stop oil is doing and i i know that the climate change is an emergency, — i know that the climate change is an emergency, it— i know that the climate change is an emergency, it should _ i know that the climate change is an emergency, it should have - i know that the climate change is an emergency, it should have been. emergency, it should have been sorted _ emergency, it should have been sorted out — emergency, it should have been sorted out a _ emergency, it should have been sorted out a good _ emergency, it should have been sorted out a good ten _ emergency, it should have been sorted out a good ten years i emergency, it should have beenl sorted out a good ten years ago, emergency, it should have been- sorted out a good ten years ago, not now _ sorted out a good ten years ago, not now i_ sorted out a good ten years ago, not now i know — sorted out a good ten years ago, not now i know the _ sorted out a good ten years ago, not now. i know the tactics _ sorted out a good ten years ago, not now. i know the tactics they - sorted out a good ten years ago, not now. i know the tactics they are i now. i know the tactics they are using _ now. i know the tactics they are using come _ now. i know the tactics they are using come straight— now. i know the tactics they are using come straight out- now. i know the tactics they are using come straight out of- now. i know the tactics they are using come straight out of the i using come straight out of the suffragettes _ using come straight out of the suffragettes playbook, - using come straight out of the suffragettes playbook, i- using come straight out of the suffragettes playbook, i get. using come straight out of the i suffragettes playbook, i get that. but if _ suffragettes playbook, i get that. but if you — suffragettes playbook, i get that. but if you want _ suffragettes playbook, i get that. but if you want to _ suffragettes playbook, i get that. but if you want to get _ suffragettes playbook, i get that. but if you want to get people i but if you want to get people onside, — but if you want to get people onside, you _ but if you want to get people onside, you have _ but if you want to get people onside, you have to- but if you want to get people onside, you have to engage i but if you want to get people i onside, you have to engage with them _ onside, you have to engage with them i— onside, you have to engage with them i know— onside, you have to engage with them. i know that. _ onside, you have to engage with them. i know that. kicking i onside, you have to engage with them. i know that. kicking offi onside, you have to engage with i them. i know that. kicking off and going. _ them. i know that. kicking off and going. we — them. i know that. kicking off and going. we will— them. i know that. kicking off and going, we will disrupt _ them. i know that. kicking off and going, we will disrupt the - them. i know that. kicking off and going, we will disrupt the ashes, i going, we will disrupt the ashes, disrupting — going, we will disrupt the ashes, disrupting this _ going, we will disrupt the ashes, disrupting this and _ going, we will disrupt the ashes, disrupting this and that, - going, we will disrupt the ashes, disrupting this and that, variousl disrupting this and that, various sporting — disrupting this and that, various sporting events. _ disrupting this and that, various sporting events. i— disrupting this and that, various sporting events. i get _ disrupting this and that, various sporting events. i get what i disrupting this and that, various sporting events. i get what youl disrupting this and that, various i sporting events. i get what you are getting _ sporting events. i get what you are getting at— sporting events. i get what you are getting at and _ sporting events. i get what you are getting at and i_ sporting events. i get what you are getting at and i understand - sporting events. i get what you are getting at and i understand why- sporting events. i get what you are i getting at and i understand why you are doing _ getting at and i understand why you are doing it— getting at and i understand why you are doing it because _ getting at and i understand why you are doing it because this— getting at and i understand why you are doing it because this is- getting at and i understand why you are doing it because this is a - are doing it because this is a crisis — are doing it because this is a crisis. ~ ., are doing it because this is a crisis. ~ . , ., , are doing it because this is a crisis. . , ., , , ., crisis. what should they be doing and how should _ crisis. what should they be doing and how should they _ crisis. what should they be doing and how should they be - crisis. what should they be doing i and how should they be protesting? in order to protest, first and foremost, _ in order to protest, first and foremost, protesting, i in order to protest, first and foremost, protesting, we i in order to protest, first and i foremost, protesting, we have all done _ foremost, protesting, we have all done it— foremost, protesting, we have all done it since _ foremost, protesting, we have all done it since the _ foremost, protesting, we have all done it since the days _ foremost, protesting, we have all done it since the days of - foremost, protesting, we have all done it since the days of wat i foremost, protesting, we have all. done it since the days of wat tyler. we have _ done it since the days of wat tyler. we have a — done it since the days of wat tyler. we have a long _ done it since the days of wat tyler. we have a long history— done it since the days of wat tyler. we have a long history of— done it since the days of wat tyler. we have a long history of protest . done it since the days of wat tyler. i we have a long history of protest in this country — we have a long history of protest in this country. the _ we have a long history of protest in this country-— we have a long history of protest in this country._ the - this country. the levellers. the levellers and _ this country. the levellers. the levellers and chartists - this country. the levellers. the levellers and chartists and - levellers and chartists and everybody _ levellers and chartists and everybody else, _ levellers and chartists and everybody else, the - levellers and chartists andi everybody else, the whole levellers and chartists and - everybody else, the whole gang. levellers and chartists and _ everybody else, the whole gang. wait a minute, sarah. _
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everybody else, the whole gang. a minute, sarah. politicians, people are saying, they are reneging on their promises.— are saying, they are reneging on their promises._ they l are saying, they are reneging on l their promises._ they are their promises. they are. they are waterin: their promises. they are. they are watering down _ their promises. they are. they are watering down their _ their promises. they are. they are watering down their promises. - their promises. they are. they are l watering down their promises. they are decelerating our progress towards net zero.— are decelerating our progress . towards net zero._ they are decelerating our progress - towards net zero._ they are towards net zero. they are. they are tarnishin: towards net zero. they are. they are tarnishing our— towards net zero. they are. they are tarnishing our reputation _ towards net zero. they are. they are tarnishing our reputation as - towards net zero. they are. they are tarnishing our reputation as global. tarnishing our reputation as global leaders to the rest of the world as exemplars. how do you protest against them and what do you say and do? . . against them and what do you say and do? , . ., .,, against them and what do you say and do? , . ., against them and what do you say and do? , ., ., .,, y., ., do? first and foremost, if you are aroin to do? first and foremost, if you are going to protest. _ do? first and foremost, if you are going to protest, get _ do? first and foremost, if you are going to protest, get hold - do? first and foremost, if you are going to protest, get hold of- do? first and foremost, if you are going to protest, get hold of the i going to protest, get hold of the politicians, — going to protest, get hold of the politicians, do— going to protest, get hold of the politicians, do a _ going to protest, get hold of the politicians, do a two—pronged i going to protest, get hold of the - politicians, do a two—pronged thing. first off, _ politicians, do a two—pronged thing. first off, go— politicians, do a two—pronged thing. first off, go to — politicians, do a two—pronged thing. first off, go to parliament _ politicians, do a two—pronged thing. first off, go to parliament and - first off, go to parliament and protest — first off, go to parliament and protest to— first off, go to parliament and protest to them. _ first off, go to parliament and protest to them. then, - first off, go to parliament and protest to them. then, as - first off, go to parliament and protest to them. then, as we i first off, go to parliament and - protest to them. then, as we have always— protest to them. then, as we have always done — protest to them. then, as we have always done in— protest to them. then, as we have always done in the _ protest to them. then, as we have always done in the past, _ protest to them. then, as we have always done in the past, you - protest to them. then, as we have always done in the past, you get . protest to them. then, as we havel always done in the past, you get all your people — always done in the past, you get all your people who _ always done in the past, you get all your people who are _ always done in the past, you get all your people who are on _ always done in the past, you get all your people who are on your- always done in the past, you get all your people who are on your side i always done in the past, you get alli your people who are on your side to -et your people who are on your side to get hold _ your people who are on your side to get hold of— your people who are on your side to get hold of their— your people who are on your side to get hold of their mp _ your people who are on your side to get hold of their mp and _ your people who are on your side to get hold of their mp and buttonhole thern _ get hold of their mp and buttonhole thern that's — get hold of their mp and buttonhole them. that's what _ get hold of their mp and buttonhole them. that's what they— get hold of their mp and buttonhole them. that's what they are - them. that's what they are therefore _ them. that's what they are therefore. the _ them. that's what they are therefore. the more - them. that's what they are i therefore. the more pressure them. that's what they are - therefore. the more pressure you them. that's what they are _ therefore. the more pressure you put on, therefore. the more pressure you put on. everyone— therefore. the more pressure you put on. everyone does— therefore. the more pressure you put on, everyone does to _ therefore. the more pressure you put on, everyone does to their— therefore. the more pressure you put on, everyone does to their local - therefore. the more pressure you put on, everyone does to their local mp, i on, everyone does to their local mp, what atrout— on, everyone does to their local mp, what about this _ on, everyone does to their local mp, what about this climate _
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on, everyone does to their local mp, what about this climate crisis? - what about this climate crisis? thet's— what about this climate crisis? that's the _ what about this climate crisis? that's the famous _ what about this climate crisis? that's the famous thing, - what about this climate crisis? that's the famous thing, you l what about this climate crisis? - that's the famous thing, you should see my mailbox, i have lots of people saying this. you see my mailbox, i have lots of people saying this.— see my mailbox, i have lots of people saying this. you have to get at them and _ people saying this. you have to get at them and put — people saying this. you have to get at them and put the _ people saying this. you have to get at them and put the pressure - people saying this. you have to get at them and put the pressure on. i people saying this. you have to getl at them and put the pressure on. do what trade _ at them and put the pressure on. do what trade unions _ at them and put the pressure on. do what trade unions used _ at them and put the pressure on. do what trade unions used to _ at them and put the pressure on. do what trade unions used to do. - at them and put the pressure on. do what trade unions used to do. you're in in stoke-on-trent. _ what trade unions used to do. you're in in stoke-on-trent. i _ what trade unions used to do. you're in in stoke-on-trent. i have - in in stoke-on-trent. i have something _ in in stoke-on-trent. i have something to _ in in stoke-on-trent. i have something to say _ in in stoke-on-trent. i have something to say on - in in stoke-on-trent. i have something to say on this. i in in stoke-on-trent. i have i something to say on this. they should — something to say on this. they should embrace the young, get them onside _ should embrace the young, get them onside it— should embrace the young, get them onside it is— should embrace the young, get them onside. it is their future, get the young _ onside. it is their future, get the young onside. that's what they need. get them _ young onside. that's what they need. get them involved. it's not ours, it's theirs~ — get them involved. it's not ours, it's theirs-— it's theirs. alex will come in. rubin, it's theirs. alex will come in. rubin. who _ it's theirs. alex will come in. rubin, who is _ it's theirs. alex will come in. rubin, who is young, - it's theirs. alex will come in. rubin, who is young, in - it's theirs. alex will come in. rubin, who is young, in a - it's theirs. alex will come in. - rubin, who is young, in a second. let's embrace alex.— rubin, who is young, in a second. let's embrace alex. thank you. and thank ou let's embrace alex. thank you. and thank you for _ let's embrace alex. thank you. and thank you for your _ let's embrace alex. thank you. and thank you for your call, _ let's embrace alex. thank you. and thank you for your call, sarah, - let's embrace alex. thank you. and thank you for your call, sarah, i - thank you for your call, sarah, i appreciate it. extinction rebellion appreciate it. extinction rebellion a couple of months ago did exactly that, they went to the houses of parliament, there were about 90,000
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people, many people young, including me, but it got no media attention. it didn't change anything. 90,000 people, the biggest mass mobilisation event in climate activism history in this country and it did not get any media attention. that's why it's important to do a variety of tactics. there are people who are doing stuff like that for stop the climate emergency project. we need to raise the fire alarm, and when the alarm gets raised we can't sit in the building discussing tactics. we should go outside the building, stop pouring oil on the flames and start finding a fire extinguisher. i flames and start finding a fire extinguisher.— flames and start finding a fire extinguisher. i agree with you there, alex. _ extinguisher. i agree with you there, alex. wait _ extinguisher. i agree with you there, alex. wait a _ extinguisher. i agree with you there, alex. wait a minute, l extinguisher. i agree with you - there, alex. wait a minute, sarah. i know ou there, alex. wait a minute, sarah. i know you agree _ there, alex. wait a minute, sarah. i know you agree but _ there, alex. wait a minute, sarah. i know you agree but i _ there, alex. wait a minute, sarah. i know you agree but i want _ there, alex. wait a minute, sarah. i know you agree but i want to - there, alex. wait a minute, sarah. i know you agree but i want to say . know you agree but i want to say something to alex. raising the fire alarm, yes. but stick within the parameters of science. because you are getting a lot of flak in the media at the moment for appearing in another outlet, it is in the papers
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today. i know you and will say it is a right—wing paper, but when temperatures get so hot that the sweat doesn't cool you down, you literally boil in your own sweat. so you said to colleagues of ours, i think it wasjulia you said to colleagues of ours, i think it was julia hartley—brewer, you think it wasjulia hartley—brewer, you said, basically, this is think it was julia hartley—brewer, you said, basically, this is the inference, we will boil in our own sweat. i inference, we will boil in our own sweat. . ., , �* , . sweat. i said that on gb news and exlain, sweat. i said that on gb news and exotain. this _ sweat. i said that on gb news and exoiain. this is — sweat. i said that on gb news and explain, this is the _ sweat. i said that on gb news and explain, this is the wet _ sweat. i said that on gb news and explain, this is the wet bulb - explain, this is the wet bulb temperature. in countries where it is so humid that your sweat doesn't cool you down, your organs stop functioning within a matter of six hours. that's a scientific fact, yes. it's terrifying.— hours. that's a scientific fact, yes. it's terrifying. and will that ha en yes. it's terrifying. and will that happen to _ yes. it's terrifying. and will that happen to all — yes. it's terrifying. and will that happen to all of _ yes. it's terrifying. and will that happen to all of us? _ yes. it's terrifying. and will that happen to all of us? in - yes. it's terrifying. and will that happen to all of us? in the - yes. it's terrifying. and will that happen to all of us? in the uk, | yes. it's terrifying. and will that i happen to all of us? in the uk, the humid temperatures _ happen to all of us? in the uk, the humid temperatures are _ happen to all of us? in the uk, the humid temperatures are not - happen to all of us? in the uk, the humid temperatures are not much| happen to all of us? in the uk, the l humid temperatures are not much of happen to all of us? in the uk, the - humid temperatures are not much of a threat. but in india and a lot of other countries in southeast asia in particular, and africa, it is a terrifying thing that is going to happen, yes, unless we start taking climate action now.— climate action now. thank you for -auttin climate action now. thank you for putting that _ climate action now. thank you for putting that in — climate action now. thank you for putting that in context, _ climate action now. thank you for putting that in context, it's - climate action now. thank you for putting that in context, it's all. putting that in context, it's all over the papers today. we can go to
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rubin in redding.— over the papers today. we can go to rubin in redding. hello, how doing? i'm fine. rubin in redding. hello, how doing? im fine- and — rubin in redding. hello, how doing? i'm fine. and steve _ rubin in redding. hello, how doing? i'm fine. and steve as _ rubin in redding. hello, how doing? i'm fine. and steve as well. - rubin in redding. hello, how doing? i'm fine. and steve as well. hello. . i'm fine. and steve as well. hello. rubin, i'm fine. and steve as well. hello. rubin. what _ i'm fine. and steve as well. hello. rubin, what would _ i'm fine. and steve as well. hello. rubin, what would you _ i'm fine. and steve as well. hello. rubin, what would you like - i'm fine. and steve as well. hello. rubin, what would you like to - i'm fine. and steve as well. hello. | rubin, what would you like to say? just stopping sport, is it acceptable?— just stopping sport, is it acceptable? just stopping sport, is it accetable? ., , ., , , , acceptable? no, stopping sport, raettin acceptable? no, stopping sport, getting people — acceptable? no, stopping sport, getting people on _ acceptable? no, stopping sport, getting people on throwing - acceptable? no, stopping sport, getting people on throwing paint over paintings is a bit ridiculous. it is over paintings is a bit ridiculous. it is one — over paintings is a bit ridiculous. it is one of— over paintings is a bit ridiculous. it is one of those things, the whataboutism we have in this country. _ whataboutism we have in this country, whenever people turn around and say. _ country, whenever people turn around and say, took— country, whenever people turn around and say, look at china, look at indie — and say, look at china, look at indie i— and say, look at china, look at india. i have been to both countries and those _ india. i have been to both countries and those are places that are simply making _ and those are places that are simply making textiles to it export to the western _ making textiles to it export to the western world so we are creating a problem _ western world so we are creating a problem. when we were still developing things in the uk and exporting out we were creating that pollution _ exporting out we were creating that pollution. we have moved the problem to other— pollution. we have moved the problem to other places and developing countries — to other places and developing countries and now we are turning around _ countries and now we are turning around and — countries and now we are turning around and saying, look at them. it is our— around and saying, look at them. it is our consumerism causing this pollution — is our consumerism causing this pollution. those are not the people
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necessarily— pollution. those are not the people necessarily taking in those products. it is very disingenuous whenever— products. it is very disingenuous whenever we turn around and say, look whenever we turn around and say, took at _ whenever we turn around and say, took at what — whenever we turn around and say, look at what china is doing, look at india~ _ look at what china is doing, look at india~ they— look at what china is doing, look at india. they are doing it for a reason — india. they are doing it for a reason and that reason is our demand _ reason and that reason is our demand a— reason and that reason is our demand. �* . reason and that reason is our demand. �* , ., reason and that reason is our demand. . , ., ., reason and that reason is our demand. . , ., . , ., demand. a bit of greenwashing going on. that's exactly _ demand. a bit of greenwashing going on. that's exactly it. _ demand. a bit of greenwashing going on. that's exactly it. i _ demand. a bit of greenwashing going on. that's exactly it. i don't - demand. a bit of greenwashing going on. that's exactly it. i don't agree - on. that's exactly it. i don't agree with going — on. that's exactly it. i don't agree with going out _ on. that's exactly it. i don't agree with going out and _ on. that's exactly it. i don't agree with going out and stopping - on. that's exactly it. i don't agree | with going out and stopping traffic. ithink— with going out and stopping traffic. i think the — with going out and stopping traffic. i think the average british person 'ust i think the average british person just trying — i think the average british person just trying to get to work will get very upset by that and i don't blame them _ very upset by that and i don't blame them in _ very upset by that and i don't blame them in the — very upset by that and i don't blame them in the slightest. but turning around _ them in the slightest. but turning around and saying, this is not our issue. _ around and saying, this is not our issue. it's — around and saying, this is not our issue, it's happening at the other end of— issue, it's happening at the other end of the — issue, it's happening at the other end of the world, it's extreme e disingenuous.— end of the world, it's extreme e disingenuous. end of the world, it's extreme e disincenuous. . , ., , . , disingenuous. can you understand why --eole like disingenuous. can you understand why people like alex _ disingenuous. can you understand why people like alex and _ disingenuous. can you understand why people like alex and other _ disingenuous. can you understand why people like alex and other people - people like alex and other people who are concerned about the planet, all these pieces on the planet, the future of our children and grandchildren, do you have a scintilla of sympathy for getting on there and putting some orange powder on the crease? i there and putting some orange powder on the crease?— on the crease? i think a little part of me really _ on the crease? i think a little part of me really does, _ on the crease? i think a little part of me really does, if— on the crease? i think a little part of me really does, if you - on the crease? i think a little part of me really does, if you believe l of me really does, if you believe that strongly in something, and a lot of—
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that strongly in something, and a lot of the — that strongly in something, and a lot of the data and science behind it is valid — lot of the data and science behind it is valid. by no means i am not a scientist, — it is valid. by no means i am not a scientist, there is a reason i am cailing — scientist, there is a reason i am cailing you _ scientist, there is a reason i am calling you at 10.30 on a friday. but calling you at10.30 on a friday. but if— calling you at 10.30 on a friday. but if you — calling you at 10.30 on a friday. but if you do believe that strongly in something and time is ticking, you will— in something and time is ticking, you will go— in something and time is ticking, you will go to extreme lengths. someone — you will go to extreme lengths. someone earlier mentioned stealing tactics _ someone earlier mentioned stealing tactics from the suffragettes and that's— tactics from the suffragettes and that's what they are doing, they got their point— that's what they are doing, they got their point across and were able to make _ their point across and were able to make some — their point across and were able to make some monumental change. i think these people are trying to do the same _ these people are trying to do the same thing. whether that goes towards — same thing. whether that goes towards the modern british public that wants to get on and watch the football, _ that wants to get on and watch the football, tennis. they don't want to see it _ football, tennis. they don't want to see it interrupted by people going on. see it interrupted by people going on it— see it interrupted by people going on. it might be something that shining — on. it might be something that shining the light directly in the face of— shining the light directly in the face of the public, it's not something they necessarily like to see young they don't want to think about— see young they don't want to think about doom and gloom when they are watching _ about doom and gloom when they are watching someone win or lose. and the net watching someone win or lose. and they get angry _ watching someone win or lose. fific they get angry with just watching someone win or lose. 2:1c they get angry with just stop watching someone win or lose. 2.1c they get angry with just stop 0il. we can they get angry withjust stop 0il. we can go to anna in newcastle. they get angry with just stop 0il. we can go to anna in newcastle. goad we can go to anna in newcastle. good morninr. we can go to anna in newcastle. good morning- are — we can go to anna in newcastle. good morning- are you _ we can go to anna in newcastle. good morning. are you angry _ we can go to anna in newcastle. good morning. are you angry with _ we can go to anna in newcastle. good
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morning. are you angry with just - morning. are you angry with just sto- oil? morning. are you angry with just stop oil? no- — morning. are you angry with just stop oil? no. |_ morning. are you angry with just stop oil? no. i completely- morning. are you angry with just i stop oil? no. i completely support them. i stop oil? no. i completely support them- ifeel— stop oil? no. i completely support them- i feel a _ stop oil? no. i completely support them. i feel a bit _ stop oil? no. i completely support them. i feel a bit sorry _ stop oil? no. i completely support them. i feel a bit sorry for- stop oil? no. i completely support them. i feel a bit sorry for them. i | them. i feel a bit sorry for them. i don't _ them. i feel a bit sorry for them. i don't get — them. i feel a bit sorry for them. i don't get it — them. i feel a bit sorry for them. i don't get it. just _ them. i feel a bit sorry for them. i don't get it. just stop _ them. i feel a bit sorry for them. i don't get it. just stop 0il, - them. i feel a bit sorry for them. i don't get it. just stop oil, as - them. i feel a bit sorry for them. i don't get it. just stop oil, as alex| don't get it. just stop oil, as alex explained — don't get it. just stop oil, as alex explained earlier— don't get it. just stop oil, as alex explained earlier in— don't get it. just stop oil, as alex explained earlier in the _ don't get it. just stop oil, as alex explained earlier in the show, - don't get it. just stop oil, as alexl explained earlier in the show, they have tried — explained earlier in the show, they have tried everything, _ explained earlier in the show, they have tried everything, it— explained earlier in the show, they have tried everything, it seems. i have tried everything, it seems. they— have tried everything, it seems. they have — have tried everything, it seems. they have targeted _ have tried everything, it seems. they have targeted the - have tried everything, it seems. they have targeted the oil - have tried everything, it seems. - they have targeted the oil industry, they have _ they have targeted the oil industry, they have gone _ they have targeted the oil industry, they have gone to _ they have targeted the oil industry, they have gone to oil— they have targeted the oil industry, they have gone to oil terminals - they have gone to oil terminals across— they have gone to oil terminals across the _ they have gone to oil terminals across the country— they have gone to oil terminals across the country and - they have gone to oil terminals i across the country and protested outside — across the country and protested outside parliament. _ across the country and protested outside parliament. they- across the country and protested outside parliament. they have i across the country and protested - outside parliament. they have joined in community— outside parliament. they have joined in community building _ outside parliament. they have joined in community building events, - outside parliament. they have joined in community building events, like i in community building events, like extinction — in community building events, like extinction rebellion— in community building events, like extinction rebellion did. _ in community building events, like extinction rebellion did. people i in community building events, like. extinction rebellion did. people are still getting — extinction rebellion did. people are still getting angry— extinction rebellion did. people are still getting angry at _ extinction rebellion did. people are still getting angry at them - extinction rebellion did. people are still getting angry at them no - still getting angry at them no matter— still getting angry at them no matter what— still getting angry at them no matter what they— still getting angry at them no matter what they do. - still getting angry at them no matter what they do. i- still getting angry at them no matter what they do. i just i still getting angry at them no i matter what they do. ijust don't understand — matter what they do. ijust don't understand the _ matter what they do. ijust don't understand the logic _ matter what they do. ijust don't understand the logic of - matter what they do. ijust don't understand the logic of getting i understand the logic of getting angry— understand the logic of getting angry at— understand the logic of getting angry atjust_ understand the logic of getting angry at just stop _ understand the logic of getting angry atjust stop oil- understand the logic of getting angry at just stop oil and i understand the logic of getting i angry at just stop oil and they're not doing — angry at just stop oil and they're not doing anything _ angry at just stop oil and they're not doing anything themselves. i i'd like you to have a conversation here. ., . , here. hi, i would have been sympathetic— here. hi, i would have been sympathetic towards - here. hi, i would have been sympathetic towards the i here. hi, i would have been i sympathetic towards the cause, here. hi, i would have been - sympathetic towards the cause, but after they attacked pride and i do
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say it was an attack, because pride, i was involved in pride when it first started years ago in the 80s and we were fighting a lot of stuff ourselves. we are very sympathetic towards causes like that, they would have been able to have somewhere in the pride are at the parade to have a say, but they didn't, they interrupted it, and to say that they are not causing harm is not true, they are causing harm. they did not need to do that. they would have got a platform at pride to do something, so i don't understand why they needed to do that.— so i don't understand why they needed to do that. we needed to do that. which pride? we are talkin: needed to do that. which pride? we are talking about _ needed to do that. which pride? we are talking about london _ needed to do that. which pride? we are talking about london pride. i i are talking about london pride. i thought you might be talking about pride in your neck of the woods in
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0magh because that is a big thing there. anna, come back and watch steve for his side, counter—productive? steve for his side, counter-productive? steve for his side, counter- roductive? . , counter-productive? yeah, 'ust talkin: counter-productive? yeah, 'ust talking about i counter-productive? yeah, 'ust talking about pride i counter-productive? yeah, just talking about pride specifically, i'm talking about pride specifically, i'm gay— talking about pride specifically, i'm gay and _ talking about pride specifically, i'm gay and i_ talking about pride specifically, i'm gayand i was— talking about pride specifically, i'm gay and i was so— talking about pride specifically, i'm gay and i was so happy- talking about pride specifically, i'm gay and i was so happy to i talking about pride specifically, i i'm gay and i was so happy to see just stop— i'm gay and i was so happy to see just stop 0it— i'm gay and i was so happy to see just stop 0il disrupting _ i'm gay and i was so happy to see just stop 0il disrupting pride i just stop 0il disrupting pride because _ just stop 0il disrupting pride because it _ just stop 0il disrupting pride because it was _ just stop 0il disrupting pride because it was not _ just stop 0il disrupting pride because it was not an - just stop 0il disrupting pride | because it was not an attack, just stop 0il disrupting pride i because it was not an attack, and what _ because it was not an attack, and what sort — because it was not an attack, and what sort of— because it was not an attack, and what sort of an _ because it was not an attack, and what sort of an image _ because it was not an attack, and what sort of an image do - because it was not an attack, and what sort of an image do you i because it was not an attack, and. what sort of an image do you think it would _ what sort of an image do you think it would have — what sort of an image do you think it would have been _ what sort of an image do you think it would have been if— what sort of an image do you think it would have been ifjust - what sort of an image do you think it would have been ifjust stop- what sort of an image do you think it would have been ifjust stop 0il| it would have been ifjust stop 0il had been — it would have been ifjust stop 0il had been marching _ it would have been ifjust stop 0il had been marching along - it would have been ifjust stop 0il had been marching along in- it would have been ifjust stop 0il had been marching along in the i had been marching along in the parade — had been marching along in the parade happily— had been marching along in the parade happily behind - had been marching along in the i parade happily behind coca—cola, had been marching along in the - parade happily behind coca—cola, the biggest _ parade happily behind coca—cola, the biggest polluter— parade happily behind coca—cola, the biggest polluter in _ parade happily behind coca—cola, the biggest polluter in the _ parade happily behind coca—cola, the biggest polluter in the world? - parade happily behind coca—cola, the biggest polluter in the world? that i biggest polluter in the world? that is no kind — biggest polluter in the world? that is no kind of— biggest polluter in the world? that is no kind of platform. _ biggest polluter in the world? that is no kind of platform. i— biggest polluter in the world? that is no kind of platform. i think- biggest polluter in the world? that is no kind of platform. i think the i is no kind of platform. i think the only way— is no kind of platform. i think the only way they _ is no kind of platform. i think the only way they will _ is no kind of platform. i think the only way they will be _ is no kind of platform. i think the only way they will be able - is no kind of platform. i think the only way they will be able to i is no kind of platform. i think the| only way they will be able to raise awareness — only way they will be able to raise awareness and _ only way they will be able to raise awareness and get _ only way they will be able to raise awareness and get attention i only way they will be able to raise awareness and get attention to i only way they will be able to raise i awareness and get attention to the fact we _ awareness and get attention to the fact we are — awareness and get attention to the fact we are all _ awareness and get attention to the fact we are all going _ awareness and get attention to the fact we are all going to _ awareness and get attention to the fact we are all going to die - awareness and get attention to the fact we are all going to die from i fact we are all going to die from the climate _ fact we are all going to die from the climate crisis _ fact we are all going to die from the climate crisis in _ fact we are all going to die from the climate crisis in a _ fact we are all going to die from the climate crisis in a few- fact we are all going to die from i the climate crisis in a few decades is by— the climate crisis in a few decades is by disrupting _ the climate crisis in a few decades is by disrupting people, _ the climate crisis in a few decades is by disrupting people, because i the climate crisis in a few decades. is by disrupting people, because no one is— is by disrupting people, because no one is paying — is by disrupting people, because no one is paying attention— is by disrupting people, because no one is paying attention to _ is by disrupting people, because no one is paying attention to them i one is paying attention to them otherwise _ one is paying attention to them otherwise i_ one is paying attention to them otherwise. i honestly... - one is paying attention to them otherwise. i honestly. . .- one is paying attention to them otherwise. i honestly... pride is about respecting _ otherwise. i honestly... pride is about respecting each _ otherwise. i honestly... pride is about respecting each other, i about respecting each other, respecting... gray pride as a protest, began with the stonewall
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riots, would you have been angry at the store more routers for breaking the store more routers for breaking the law and throwing bricks at the please? the law and throwing bricks at the lease? . . . the law and throwing bricks at the lease? ., ., , , , the law and throwing bricks at the please?_ but i the law and throwing bricks at the | please?_ but it please? that was disrupted. but it is also about _ please? that was disrupted. but it is also about letting _ please? that was disrupted. but it is also about letting people - please? that was disrupted. but it is also about letting people say i is also about letting people say what they have to say.- is also about letting people say what they have to say. yeah, so why are ou what they have to say. yeah, so why are you not — what they have to say. yeah, so why are you not letting _ what they have to say. yeah, so why are you not letting just _ what they have to say. yeah, so why are you not letting just stop - what they have to say. yeah, so why are you not letting just stop oil- are you not letting just stop 0il say what — are you not letting just stop 0il say what they _ are you not letting just stop 0il say what they have _ are you not letting just stop 0il say what they have to - are you not letting just stop 0il say what they have to say? i are you not letting just stop 0il| say what they have to say? itrilt�*ell say what they have to say? well that's what _ say what they have to say? well that's what i'm _ say what they have to say? well that's what i'm trying _ say what they have to say? well that's what i'm trying to - say what they have to say? that's what i'm trying to say, say what they have to sawm that's what i'm trying to say, they could have said that on the parade, they could have had their platform. you know as well as i doubt they would _ you know as well as i doubt they would not — you know as well as i doubt they would not have _ you know as well as i doubt they would not have had _ you know as well as i doubt they would not have had nearly- you know as well as i doubt they. would not have had nearly enough attention — would not have had nearly enough attention. , , ., , would not have had nearly enough attention. , , .,, ., , attention. they stop someone else having a platform _ attention. they stop someone else having a platform so _ attention. they stop someone else having a platform so they - attention. they stop someone else having a platform so they can i attention. they stop someone else having a platform so they can havej attention. they stop someone else i having a platform so they can have a platform. having a platform so they can have a latform. ., ~' ., having a platform so they can have a latform. ., ~ ., . ., platform. you know what, i would much rather _ platform. you know what, i would much rather be _ platform. you know what, i would much rather be made _ platform. you know what, i would much rather be made 20 - platform. you know what, i would much rather be made 20 minutes| platform. you know what, i would i much rather be made 20 minutes half an hour— much rather be made 20 minutes half an hour late _ much rather be made 20 minutes half an hour late for— much rather be made 20 minutes half an hour late for work, _ much rather be made 20 minutes half an hour late for work, much— much rather be made 20 minutes half an hour late for work, much rather. an hour late for work, much rather have _ an hour late for work, much rather have sports— an hour late for work, much rather have sports events _ an hour late for work, much rather have sports events disrupted i- an hour late for work, much rather. have sports events disrupted i would much _ have sports events disrupted i would much rather— have sports events disrupted i would much rather have _ have sports events disrupted i would much rather have pride _ have sports events disrupted i would much rather have pride paused i have sports events disrupted i would much rather have pride paused for. have sports events disrupted i wouldj much rather have pride paused for 15 minutes— much rather have pride paused for 15 minutes if— much rather have pride paused for 15 minutes if it — much rather have pride paused for 15 minutes if it meant _ much rather have pride paused for 15 minutes if it meant we _ much rather have pride paused for 15 minutes if it meant we could - much rather have pride paused for 15 minutes if it meant we could stop i minutes if it meant we could stop this climate — minutes if it meant we could stop this climate crisis _ minutes if it meant we could stop this climate crisis that _ minutes if it meant we could stop this climate crisis that means i minutes if it meant we could stop| this climate crisis that means that my little _ this climate crisis that means that my little sisters _ this climate crisis that means that my little sisters are _ this climate crisis that means that my little sisters are not _ this climate crisis that means that my little sisters are not going i this climate crisis that means that my little sisters are not going to i my little sisters are not going to have _ my little sisters are not going to have a _
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my little sisters are not going to have a happy— my little sisters are not going to have a happy future. _ my little sisters are not going to have a happy future. so - my little sisters are not going to have a happy future.— my little sisters are not going to have a happy future. so we do what ou want? have a happy future. so we do what you want? well. — have a happy future. so we do what you want? well, no, _ have a happy future. so we do what you want? well, no, we _ have a happy future. so we do what you want? well, no, we raised i have a happy future. so we do what you want? well, no, we raised thel you want? well, no, we raised the alarm as alex _ you want? well, no, we raised the alarm as alex has _ you want? well, no, we raised the alarm as alex has put _ you want? well, no, we raised the alarm as alex has put it _ you want? well, no, we raised the alarm as alex has put it so - you want? well, no, we raised thej alarm as alex has put it so clearly. so we _ alarm as alex has put it so clearly. so we just — alarm as alex has put it so clearly. so we just do— alarm as alex has put it so clearly. so we just do what _ alarm as alex has put it so clearly. so we just do what you _ alarm as alex has put it so clearly. so we just do what you want? i alarm as alex has put it so clearly. so we just do what you want? 0k,| so we 'ust do what you want? 0k, what so we just do what you want? 0k, what just so we just do what you want? 0k, whatjust step _ so we just do what you want? 0k, whatjust stop oil wants is so we just do what you want? 0k, what just stop oil wants is a so we just do what you want? 0k, what just stop 0il wants is a better future _ what just stop 0il wants is a better future and — what just stop 0il wants is a better future and what _ what just stop 0il wants is a better future and what just _ what just stop 0il wants is a better future and what just stop - what just stop 0il wants is a better future and what just stop oil- whatjust stop 0il wants is a betterj future and what just stop 0il wants is clean _ future and what just stop 0il wants is clean air, — future and what just stop 0il wants is clean air, they _ future and what just stop 0il wants is clean air, they want _ future and what just stop 0il wants is clean air, they want affordable . is clean air, they want affordable energy— is clean air, they want affordable energy bills, _ is clean air, they want affordable energy bills, people _ is clean air, they want affordable energy bills, people to _ is clean air, they want affordable energy bills, people to be - is clean air, they want affordable energy bills, people to be able . is clean air, they want affordable | energy bills, people to be able to live happily. _ energy bills, people to be able to live happily. and _ energy bills, people to be able to live happily-— energy bills, people to be able to live hauil . �* t, l, ~' live happily. and what do you think pride wants? _ live happily. and what do you think pride wants? pride _ live happily. and what do you think pride wants? pride once _ live happily. and what do you think pride wants? pride once queer - live happily. and what do you think i pride wants? pride once queer people to have happy — pride wants? pride once queer people to have happy and _ pride wants? pride once queer people to have happy and safe _ pride wants? pride once queer people to have happy and safe futures - pride wants? pride once queer people to have happy and safe futures as - to have happy and safe futures as well _ to have happy and safe futures as well the — to have happy and safe futures as well. the demands _ to have happy and safe futures as well. the demands are _ to have happy and safe futures as well. the demands are the - to have happy and safe futures asj well. the demands are the same. to have happy and safe futures as - well. the demands are the same. yes, so why step — well. the demands are the same. yes, so why stop pride? _ well. the demands are the same. yes, so why stop pride? because _ well. the demands are the same. yes, so why stop pride? because pride - so why stop pride? because pride isn't doinu so why stop pride? because pride isn't doing enough. _ so why stop pride? because pride isn't doing enough. we _ so why stop pride? because pride isn't doing enough. we need - so why stop pride? because pride isn't doing enough. we need to i so why stop pride? because pride - isn't doing enough. we need to move the political — isn't doing enough. we need to move the political dial _ isn't doing enough. we need to move the political dial here _ isn't doing enough. we need to move the political dial here that _ the political dial here that politicians are reneging on their promises, keir starmer got a lot of flak yesterday from protesters, rishi sunak has been accused by lord goldsmith, whatever you think about
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lord goldsmith, he said of rishi sunak that he doesn't even care so if you are a claimant processor, what you can do? it is turning people off and making people look in another direction and bury their heads further in the sand. there we are, it's friday, get in touch. it isjust stopping sport are, it's friday, get in touch. it is just stopping sport 0k? the national education union says a 6.5% pay rise for teachers could be enough to prevent further strikes. the offer is reported to have been recommended by the independent pay review body. neu members have walked out for the second time this week. police are trying to work out if the driver of a car which crashed into a school in wimbledon had
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a "medical incident". an 8—year—old girl died in the incident — a woman in her 405 is being questioned. the father of ellie edwards, who was shot dead outside a pub on christmas eve, says his mission now is to stop gun violence on merseyside. ellie was killed by conor chapman who shot at rival gang members — he'll be sentenced later. elon musk has accused meta's new app, threads, of copying twitter, and says "competition is fine, cheating is not". he's considering taking legal action over its use of intellectual property. england will resume on 68—3 this morning on day 2 of the third ashes test, still trailing by 195 runs. so work to do for england's batsman starting with the local boys joe root and jonny bairstow. elly 0ldroyd is at headingley, where the sun's out today. a beautiful yorkshire morning here, a great _ a beautiful yorkshire morning here, a great day— a beautiful yorkshire morning here, a great day for — a beautiful yorkshire morning here, a great day for batting, _ a beautiful yorkshire morning here, a great day for batting, we -
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a beautiful yorkshire morning here, a great day for batting, we hope, i a great day for batting, we hope, and told — a great day for batting, we hope, and told it — a great day for batting, we hope, and told it will— a great day for batting, we hope, and told it will be _ a great day for batting, we hope, and told it will be doing - a great day for batting, we hope, and told it will be doing plenty i a great day for batting, we hope, and told it will be doing plenty ofj and told it will be doing plenty of it. and told it will be doing plenty of it they— and told it will be doing plenty of it they will— and told it will be doing plenty of it. they will resume _ and told it will be doing plenty of it. they will resume on _ and told it will be doing plenty of it. they will resume on one, i and told it will be doing plenty of it. they will resume on one, joel it. they will resume on one, joe root_ it. they will resume on one, joe root on— it. they will resume on one, joe root on 19 — it. they will resume on one, joe root on 19 and _ it. they will resume on one, joe root on 19 and they— it. they will resume on one, joe root on 19 and they want - it. they will resume on one, joe root on 19 and they want to i it. they will resume on one, joe root on 19 and they want to get| it. they will resume on one, joe i root on 19 and they want to get as close _ root on 19 and they want to get as close as _ root on 19 and they want to get as close as they— root on 19 and they want to get as close as they can _ root on 19 and they want to get as close as they can to _ root on 19 and they want to get as close as they can to the _ root on 19 and they want to get as close as they can to the australianj close as they can to the australian first innings — close as they can to the australian first innings score _ close as they can to the australian first innings score of— close as they can to the australian first innings score of 263, - close as they can to the australian first innings score of 263, a - close as they can to the australian first innings score of 263, a greati first innings score of 263, a great day with— first innings score of 263, a great day with the _ first innings score of 263, a great day with the ball _ first innings score of 263, a great day with the ball yesterday - first innings score of 263, a great day with the ball yesterday for i first innings score of 263, a great. day with the ball yesterday for mark would _ day with the ball yesterday for mark would on _ day with the ball yesterday for mark would on the — day with the ball yesterday for mark would on the back— day with the ball yesterday for mark would on the back for— day with the ball yesterday for mark would on the back for mitchell- would on the back for mitchell marsh, — would on the back for mitchell marsh, so— would on the back for mitchell marsh, so everything - would on the back for mitchell marsh, so everything is- would on the back for mitchell marsh, so everything is all- would on the back for mitchellj marsh, so everything is all set would on the back for mitchell- marsh, so everything is all set for another— marsh, so everything is all set for another excellent _ marsh, so everything is all set for another excellent day— marsh, so everything is all set for another excellent day of - marsh, so everything is all set for another excellent day of ashes i another excellent day of ashes cricket, — another excellent day of ashes cricket, could _ another excellent day of ashes cricket, could be _ another excellent day of ashes cricket, could be a _ another excellent day of ashes cricket, could be a defining i cricket, could be a defining session. _ cricket, could be a defining session, this _ cricket, could be a defining session, this one, - cricket, could be a defining session, this one, england| cricket, could be a defining - session, this one, england resume cricket, could be a defining _ session, this one, england resume on 68-5 _ elsewhere — andy murray's interrupted second round match will be second on centre court today. he leads stefanos tsitsipas by two sets to one. later novak djokovic meets 3—time grand slam winner stan wawrinka. and it's a day for the sprinters at the tour de france — so mark cavendish has a chance of a record breaking 35th stage win.
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get in touch. it is just stopping sport 0k? talking of sport, sporting icon, bbc icon, gary lineker has said anything he said this yesterday, just stop oil's causes more important than disrupting sports events, voiced his sympathy with campaigners. the paper of record, the telegraph, while hosting an environment panel at wimbledon
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protest was halted play by running onto the core, throwing a jigsaw puzzle onto the grass. i completely understand where they're coming from, disruptive protest the only one that gets any publicity. here we are. a lot of it recently in the sporting arenas. do you have sympathy, i wonder? sporting arenas. do you have sympathy, iwonder? let's hearfrom you, and i'm going to ask at why that question, from the athletic. narrator, a journalist, an observer, exports not, katie, do you have sympathy?— exports not, katie, do you have sympathy? exports not, katie, do you have smath ? ., ., , , sympathy? good morning. i do, yes. i think it is a — sympathy? good morning. i do, yes. i think it is a really _ sympathy? good morning. i do, yes. i think it is a really critical _ sympathy? good morning. i do, yes. i think it is a really critical issue - think it is a really critical issue and i think it is one that in the coverage we often read about how they are disrupting spore and causing trouble and the are manic in doing too much and we very rarely read kind of nuanced analysis of the climate crisis in the real point they are trying to make, so i have sympathy for their cause and i agree that we should not be investing in
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new fossil fuel is, the climate is in and the drastically shrinking window we have got to do something about it, so i do agree with what they are protesting for.- about it, so i do agree with what they are protesting for. harry, do ou they are protesting for. harry, do you agree? _ they are protesting for. harry, do you agree? l _ they are protesting for. harry, do you agree? i agree _ they are protesting for. harry, do you agree? i agree with - they are protesting for. harry, do you agree? i agree with the i you agree? i agree with the principles — you agree? i agree with the principles of _ you agree? i agree with the principles of what _ you agree? i agree with the principles of what they i you agree? i agree with the principles of what they are l you agree? i agree with the - principles of what they are standing for, principles of what they are standing for. but _ principles of what they are standing for, but not their tactics. disruptive, ruining the fun we should — disruptive, ruining the fun we should have in life, we've all gone too hard _ should have in life, we've all gone too hard enough periods of time with over and _ too hard enough periods of time with overand under too hard enough periods of time with over and under pressure with the economy, — over and under pressure with the economy, we don't need that. this is actually— economy, we don't need that. this is actually vandalism on these people should _ actually vandalism on these people should be _ actually vandalism on these people should be put in prison and kept in there _ should be put in prison and kept in there for— should be put in prison and kept in there for a — should be put in prison and kept in there for a long time because what they are _ there for a long time because what they are doing is disgusting, ruining — they are doing is disgusting, ruining our history, our arts, sports. — ruining our history, our arts, sports. a _ ruining our history, our arts, sports, a pleasure and the quality of life _ sports, a pleasure and the quality of life that — sports, a pleasure and the quality of life that we do have left after all this — of life that we do have left after all this covid rubbish, we need that freedom _ all this covid rubbish, we need that freedom to — all this covid rubbish, we need that freedom to enjoy ourselves as best we can, _ freedom to enjoy ourselves as best we can, let — freedom to enjoy ourselves as best we can, let alone have people extremists like this, that is all it
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is, doing — extremists like this, that is all it is, doing everything. if they think about— is, doing everything. if they think about what they are standing for, no oil, about what they are standing for, no oil. elderly— about what they are standing for, no oil, elderly people, anyone will die through— oil, elderly people, anyone will die through the winter if we don't have sufficient _ through the winter if we don't have sufficient heating and the wind technology, brilliant as it is, that also has — technology, brilliant as it is, that also has its — technology, brilliant as it is, that also has its limitations.— also has its limitations. there is that, but also has its limitations. there is that. butjust — also has its limitations. there is that, but just taking _ also has its limitations. there is that, but just taking away i also has its limitations. there is that, but just taking away from | also has its limitations. there is i that, butjust taking away from that particular aspect of the debate, we were discussing at the other day, do you not think, is there a part of you not think, is there a part of you that thinks, thanks ever so much for getting in touch, hugely appreciated, do you not think that there is a part of you fear or suspect that when the history books are written, if there is anyone to write them, we will say my goodness me, they were right, they were so right? me, they were right, they were so riuht? ~ , , ., right? well, the thing is, it is a simle right? well, the thing is, it is a simple thing — right? well, the thing is, it is a simple thing is, _ right? well, the thing is, it is a simple thing is, if _ right? well, the thing is, it is a simple thing is, if you - right? well, the thing is, it is a simple thing is, if you read i right? well, the thing is, it is a simple thing is, if you read on. right? well, the thing is, it is a i simple thing is, if you read on the history books here and the learning curve of wheat, maize, barley, green
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it needs wind to dry out, so if we use, the principle of those generating electricity is great but how about when you take away the wind power that is meant to cover our whole country and all are agriculture, you take away then the drying ability of our crops and therefore you will get mould on crops which will, you won't be able to eat of it, it will be poisonous. an existential threat to the planet though? harry, laura. you heard harry? i did, though? harry, laura. you heard harry? idid, i though? harry, laura. you heard harry? i did, i like to speak directly to listeners.- harry? i did, i like to speak directly to listeners. that might have the same _ directly to listeners. that might have the same opinion - directly to listeners. that might have the same opinion as i directly to listeners. that might have the same opinion as him. | directly to listeners. that might i have the same opinion as him. just stop 0il— have the same opinion as him. just stop oil is— have the same opinion as him. just stop oil is a — have the same opinion as him. just stop oil is a terrible name, it should — stop oil is a terrible name, it should have always been called... and the _ should have always been called... and the demands are very simple, no new oil— and the demands are very simple, no new oil and _ and the demands are very simple, no new oil and gas licensing. people talk about— new oil and gas licensing. people talk about china, currently the uk
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is 1%. _ talk about china, currently the uk is l%. has — talk about china, currently the uk is 1%, has proven, we don't include infrastructure, transportation, all of our— infrastructure, transportation, all of our goods and aviation under militarv. — of our goods and aviation under military, the uk government is planning — military, the uk government is planning to put 15% of all the world's— planning to put 15% of all the world's investment into new oil and -as, world's investment into new oil and gas, so _ world's investment into new oil and gas, so is _ world's investment into new oil and gas, so is the same with world leaders — gas, so is the same with world leaders and we are having to do that, _ leaders and we are having to do that, it — leaders and we are having to do that, it is — leaders and we are having to do that, it is a _ leaders and we are having to do that, it is a lie. when harry talks about— that, it is a lie. when harry talks about energy security and people dying _ about energy security and people dying in _ about energy security and people dying in their homes because of the cold, _ dying in their homes because of the cold, currently uk taxpayers pay 91% of all infrastructure in north sea oil and _ of all infrastructure in north sea oil and gas, of all infrastructure in north sea oiland gas, and of all infrastructure in north sea oil and gas, and that money, included _ oil and gas, and that money, included with the tax they don't pay. _ included with the tax they don't pay, is — included with the tax they don't pay, is £236 million every single week— pay, is £236 million every single week in— pay, is £236 million every single week in the uk, that money should be lloif'i week in the uk, that money should be going to _ week in the uk, that money should be going to affordable energy, to renewables, could people was back home _ renewables, could people was back home so— renewables, could people was back home so we don't have people dying every— home so we don't have people dying every year —
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home so we don't have people dying every year. —— in silly people's comms — every year. —— in silly people's comms. people dying every year because — comms. people dying every year because of the cold and we have oil and gas _ because of the cold and we have oil and as. ., because of the cold and we have oil and as. . i. because of the cold and we have oil and as. ., ,, , because of the cold and we have oil and as. . i. , ., because of the cold and we have oil and as. ., ,, , ., ., because of the cold and we have oil and as. ., , ., ., , ., , and gas. have you been on a protest? i have, i'll and gas. have you been on a protest? i have. i'lltell— and gas. have you been on a protest? i have, i'll tell you _ and gas. have you been on a protest? i have, i'll tell you why, _ and gas. have you been on a protest? i have, i'll tell you why, i'm _ and gas. have you been on a protest? i have, i'll tell you why, i'm a - i have, i'll tell you why, i'm a mother, _ i have, i'll tell you why, i'm a mother, i_ i have, i'll tell you why, i'm a mother, i have an incredible seven—year—old son, alex, is really creative. _ seven—year—old son, alex, is really creative, loves drawing, loves gaming. — creative, loves drawing, loves gaming, and he is always telling me what he _ gaming, and he is always telling me what he wants to be when he grows up, what he wants to be when he grows up. all _ what he wants to be when he grows up, all excited, and how can i look him in— up, all excited, and how can i look him in the — up, all excited, and how can i look him in the eyes, i have to smile and -et him in the eyes, i have to smile and get my— him in the eyes, i have to smile and get my teeth at him because i have looked _ get my teeth at him because i have looked at _ get my teeth at him because i have looked at the science, the united nations— looked at the science, the united nations are saying code red for humanitv~ _ nations are saying code red for humanity. already the climate crisis. — humanity. already the climate crisis. 40 _ humanity. already the climate crisis, 40 degrees heat last year in the uk, _ crisis, 40 degrees heat last year in the uk, 1700 people died because of the, and _ the uk, 1700 people died because of the, and on — the uk, 1700 people died because of the, and on gb news we've got journalists _ the, and on gb news we've got journalists in inverted commas hysterically laughing at 1700 people
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dyin- hysterically laughing at 1700 people dying in— hysterically laughing at 1700 people dying in the uk, that is a fact. we are any— dying in the uk, that is a fact. we are any climate crisis. we dying in the uk, that is a fact. we are any climate crisis.— dying in the uk, that is a fact. we | are any climate crisis.- we are any climate crisis. we are. we are any climate crisis. we are. we are so close _ are any climate crisis. we are. we are so close to _ are any climate crisis. we are. we are so close to not _ are any climate crisis. we are. we are so close to not being - are any climate crisis. we are. we are so close to not being able i are any climate crisis. we are. we are so close to not being able to l are so close to not being able to feed _ are so close to not being able to feed our— are so close to not being able to feed our children, we've already got crops— feed our children, we've already got crops failing, and if this continues, licensing new oil and gas. _ continues, licensing new oil and gas, even — continues, licensing new oil and gas, even though the industry knows it is killing _ gas, even though the industry knows it is killing people, scientists in the 70s — it is killing people, scientists in the 70s that projected what we are seeing _ the 70s that projected what we are seeing right now on the planet... still the — seeing right now on the planet... still the media is complicit with the lies — i have read the science, do you rightly point out today saying the climate change is out of control. i'm not happy about it, i've got to
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say. it is scientific consensus, it is not something we need to be impartial about because it is not one of those issues. : come and speak to laura. talking about her beautiful boy and his future. what do you say to her?— beautiful boy and his future. what do you say to her? good morning. i fully appreciate _ do you say to her? good morning. i fully appreciate the _ do you say to her? good morning. i fully appreciate the cause, - do you say to her? good morning. i fully appreciate the cause, i - do you say to her? good morning. i fully appreciate the cause, i really i fully appreciate the cause, i really do, and is lots of people have alluded to today, there's different ways to get your point across. i think what we need to do is we need to stop giving airtime tojust stop 0il stop if they do feel the need to interrupt a sporting event, let's call it what it is and let's say the cricket match was interrupted by a group of criminals, but let's not publicise their cause. no one remembers the name of the horrible
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man that done the shooting in new zealand in the mosque because jacinda daren't refuse to speak his name, and if we simply refuse to give such protest... that name, and if we simply refuse to give such protest. . ._ name, and if we simply refuse to give such protest... that is quite a arallel. i give such protest... that is quite a parallel. i understand _ give such protest... that is quite a parallel. i understand that, - give such protest... that is quite a parallel. i understand that, but i give such protest... that is quite a parallel. i understand that, but if. parallel. i understand that, but if we stop giving — parallel. i understand that, but if we stop giving airtime _ parallel. i understand that, but if we stop giving airtime or- we stop giving airtime or publicising what the causes, there are ways to do it, they do need to lobby parliament by interrupting sporting events is just lobby parliament by interrupting sporting events isjust turning more and more people... i would sporting events isjust turning more and more people... iwould be sporting events isjust turning more and more people... i would be very sympathetic to the cause by becoming less and less sympathetic, the more disruption that it actually causes. but i think once we stop publicising it we will be any better place. flan it we will be any better place. can i come in there? _ it we will be any better place. can i come in there? yes. _ it we will be any better place. can i come in there? yes. just - it we will be any better place. can i come in there? yes. just to i it we will be any better place. can i i come in there? yes. just to remind eve one i come in there? yes. just to remind everyone that _ i come in there? yes. just to remind everyone that it _ i come in there? yes. just to remind everyone that it is _ i come in there? ya; just to remind everyone that it is not a i come in there? is; just to remind everyone that it is not a cause. we are not— everyone that it is not a cause. we are not talking about a cause, we are not talking about a cause, we are talking — are not talking about a cause, we are talking about the future of all humanity— are talking about the future of all humanity on the planet. and they will be _ humanity on the planet. and they will be no — humanity on the planet. and they will be no sporting events on a dead planet~ _ will be no sporting events on a dead planet. there will be no art on a dead _ planet. there will be no art on a dead planet. most importantly, there is no future _ dead planet. most importantly, there is no future for my child on a dead
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planet~ _ is no future for my child on a dead planet~ and — is no future for my child on a dead planet. and i do appreciate you have been really— planet. and i do appreciate you have been really great today, i'm definitely going to start listening to your— definitely going to start listening to your show, about bbc impartiality. bbc impartiality actually only came when after the extinction — actually only came when after the extinction rebellion protest of 2019 where _ extinction rebellion protest of 2019 where they got the government to declare _ where they got the government to declare that we were doing a climatem _ declare that we were doing a climate- - -— declare that we were doing a climate... ., .,, , ,., climate... no, it has been something that has happened _ climate. .. no, it has been something that has happened over— climate... no, it has been something that has happened over time - climate... no, it has been somethingj that has happened over time because of the scientific consensus, like evolution. we of the scientific consensus, like evolution-— evolution. we know that the scientific predictions - evolution. we know that the scientific predictions were i evolution. we know that the i scientific predictions were there in the 70s. _ scientific predictions were there in the 70s, what has happened is very like the _ the 70s, what has happened is very like the smoking industry, you have a scientist _ like the smoking industry, you have a scientist to talk about the climate _ a scientist to talk about the climate crisis and then alongside you to _ climate crisis and then alongside you to have someone that was actually — you to have someone that was actually a _ you to have someone that was actually a lobbyist for the oil industry— actually a lobbyist for the oil industry as a counterargument and
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that wasm — industry as a counterargument and that was... they don't do that any more _ that was... they don't do that any more. but — that was... they don't do that any more, but that decision to not have oil lobby— more, but that decision to not have oil lobby is — more, but that decision to not have oil lobby is to be the counterargument to a scientist, that decision— counterargument to a scientist, that decision unfortunately and quite crazily— decision unfortunately and quite crazily only came when after extinction rebellion protest. other outlets apart _ extinction rebellion protest. other outlets apart from _ extinction rebellion protest. other outlets apart from others - extinction rebellion protest. other outlets apart from others to - extinction rebellion protest. otis outlets apart from others to do that. listen...— outlets apart from others to do that. listen... you mention julie harley burley. — that. listen... you mention julie harley burley. l _ that. listen... you mention julie harley burley, i don't _ that. listen... you mention julie harley burley, i don't think- that. listen... you mention julie i harley burley, i don't think anyone in a harley burley, idon't think anyone in a rational— harley burley, i don't think anyone in a rational debate can ever use that _ in a rational debate can ever use that. ~ ., in a rational debate can ever use that. ~ . , ., in a rational debate can ever use that. ~ . i. in a rational debate can ever use that. ~ . ., in a rational debate can ever use that. . . ., that. whatever you say about julia, she has reviews _ that. whatever you say about julia, she has reviews and _ that. whatever you say about julia, she has reviews and she _ that. whatever you say about julia, she has reviews and she puts i that. whatever you say about julia, she has reviews and she puts themj she has reviews and she puts them out, if i'm broadcaster, isay she has reviews and she puts them out, if i'm broadcaster, i say that. wait a out, if i'm broadcaster, i say that. waita minute... it out, if i'm broadcaster, i say that. wait a minute... it is not about her. calling, you call these people criminals. , , ., criminals. yes, they are committing criminals. yes, they are committing criminal activity. _ criminals. yes, they are committing criminal activity. if— criminals. yes, they are committing criminal activity. if you _ criminals. yes, they are committing criminal activity. if you invade i criminals. yes, they are committing criminal activity. if you invade a i criminal activity. if you invade a football — criminal activity. if you invade a football pitch _ criminal activity. if you invade a football pitch it _ criminal activity. if you invade a football pitch it is _ criminal activity. if you invade a football pitch it is a _ criminal activity. if you invade a football pitch it is a criminal- football pitch it is a criminal offence _ football pitch it is a criminal offence and... _ football pitch it is a criminal offence and. . ._ football pitch it is a criminal offence and... ~ ., ., . ., , offence and... who are the criminals crime is like — offence and... who are the criminals crime is like really _ offence and... who are the criminals crime is like really are _ offence and... who are the criminals
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crime is like really are the _ crime is like really are the criminals your? you might be people who partake in these photos. i'm all for... gray for r organise process, contact the police. for. .. gray for r organise process, contact the police.— contact the police. lets have an organised _ contact the police. lets have an organised protest _ contact the police. lets have an organised protest and _ contact the police. lets have an organised protest and try i contact the police. lets have an organised protest and try and i contact the police. lets have an i organised protest and try and get some _ organised protest and try and get some publicity— organised protest and try and get some publicity for— organised protest and try and get some publicity for it, _ organised protest and try and get some publicity for it, but - organised protest and try and get some publicity for it, but hopping over a _ some publicity for it, but hopping over a fence _ some publicity for it, but hopping overa fence or— some publicity for it, but hopping over a fence or climbing - some publicity for it, but hopping over a fence or climbing over- some publicity for it, but hopping over a fence or climbing over a i over a fence or climbing over a wooden — over a fence or climbing over a wooden frame _ over a fence or climbing over a wooden frame at _ over a fence or climbing over a wooden frame at a _ over a fence or climbing over a wooden frame at a snooker- over a fence or climbing over a i wooden frame at a snooker match to -et wooden frame at a snooker match to get your— wooden frame at a snooker match to get your point — wooden frame at a snooker match to get your point across _ wooden frame at a snooker match to get your point across and _ wooden frame at a snooker match to get your point across and interrupts i get your point across and interrupts what many — get your point across and interrupts what many people _ get your point across and interrupts what many people have _ get your point across and interrupts what many people have worked i get your point across and interrupts i what many people have worked really hard to _ what many people have worked really hard to go _ what many people have worked really hard to go and — what many people have worked really hard to go and enjoy, _ what many people have worked really hard to go and enjoy, it— what many people have worked really hard to go and enjoy, it is— hard to go and enjoy, it is absolutely— hard to go and enjoy, it is absolutely ridiculous. i hard to go and enjoy, it is| absolutely ridiculous. why hard to go and enjoy, it is- absolutely ridiculous. why don't we io absolutely ridiculous. why don't we go to— absolutely ridiculous. why don't we go to saudi — absolutely ridiculous. why don't we go to saudi arabia _ absolutely ridiculous. why don't we go to saudi arabia and _ absolutely ridiculous. why don't we go to saudi arabia and make - absolutely ridiculous. why don't we go to saudi arabia and make our. absolutely ridiculous. why don't we i go to saudi arabia and make our case they are _ go to saudi arabia and make our case they are where — go to saudi arabia and make our case they are where we _ go to saudi arabia and make our case they are where we have _ go to saudi arabia and make our case they are where we have real - go to saudi arabia and make our case they are where we have real concerns around _ they are where we have real concerns around oil? _ they are where we have real concerns around oil? i— they are where we have real concerns around oil? i know— they are where we have real concerns around oil? i know why— they are where we have real concerns around oil? i know why we _ they are where we have real concerns around oil? i know why we won't i they are where we have real concerns around oil? i know why we won't do l around oil? i know why we won't do that, _ around oil? i know why we won't do that, because — around oil? i know why we won't do that, because of— around oil? i know why we won't do that, because of the _ around oil? i know why we won't do that, because of the regime. - around oil? i know why we won't do that, because of the regime. we i around oil? i know why we won't doi that, because of the regime. we are 'ust that, because of the regime. we are just too— that, because of the regime. we are just too soft — that, because of the regime. we are just too soft i — that, because of the regime. we are just too soft i think— that, because of the regime. we are just too soft i think all— that, because of the regime. we are just too soft i think all and _ that, because of the regime. we are just too soft i think all and all, - just too soft i think all and all, but we — just too soft i think all and all, but we need _ just too soft i think all and all, but we need to _ just too soft i think all and all, but we need to stop _ just too soft i think all and all, but we need to stop the - just too soft i think all and all, i but we need to stop the publicity for it. _ but we need to stop the publicity for it. let — but we need to stop the publicity for it. let it— but we need to stop the publicity for it, let it be _ but we need to stop the publicity for it, let it be a _ but we need to stop the publicity for it, let it be a protest- but we need to stop the publicity for it, let it be a protest about i for it, let it be a protest about something _ for it, let it be a protest about something. should _ for it, let it be a protest about something. should it - for it, let it be a protest about something. should it be - for it, let it be a protest about something. should it be just l for it, let it be a protest about. something. should it be just stop 0il something. should it be just stop oil or— something. should it be just stop oil oranimal_ something. should it be just stop 0il oranimal rights? _ something. should it be just stop oil or animal rights? let's- something. should it be just stop oil or animal rights? let'sjust i oil or animal rights? let's just call 0il or animal rights? let's just call it— oil or animal rights? let'sjust call it criminals _ oil or animal rights? let'sjust call it criminals interrupting i call it criminals interrupting sporting _ call it criminals interrupting sporting event _ call it criminals interrupting sporting event and - call it criminals interrupting sporting event and all - call it criminals interrupting sporting event and all of. call it criminals interrupting sporting event and all of a i call it criminals interrupting - sporting event and all of a sudden once the _ sporting event and all of a sudden once the publicity— sporting event and all of a sudden once the publicity is _ sporting event and all of a sudden once the publicity is there, - sporting event and all of a sudden once the publicity is there, i - sporting event and all of a sudden once the publicity is there, i think| once the publicity is there, i think we will— once the publicity is there, i think
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we will have — once the publicity is there, i think we will have a _ once the publicity is there, i think we will have a lot _ once the publicity is there, i think we will have a lot more _ once the publicity is there, i think we will have a lot more less - we will have a lot more less disruption _ we will have a lot more less disruption-_ we will have a lot more less disruption. we will have a lot more less disru tion. . _, . ~ m disruption. katie, come back. are ou disruption. katie, come back. are you asking _ disruption. katie, come back. are you asking me — disruption. katie, come back. are you asking me to _ disruption. katie, come back. are you asking me to respond - disruption. katie, come back. are you asking me to respond to - disruption. katie, come back. are| you asking me to respond to that? disruption. katie, come back. are i you asking me to respond to that? a passive way, i'm soaking it all up. there is a few things, the first caller harry when he was talking about what are people going to do in their homes at winter? that's the kind of misinformation and misunderstanding i think fuel is a lot of this. as laura was saying, it is no new oil and gas, no new fossil fuel licenses, it is about finding newer, safer, healthier ways are betterfor newer, safer, healthier ways are better for the plan and are newer, safer, healthier ways are betterfor the plan and are more sustainable to support our energy infrastructure in that way. i think that's kind of at the heart of a lot of the issues around just boil, and what has been really disheartening for me as a sports journalist is a lot of the coverage around it is people have ruined wimbledon, range cricket, it is very rare you see a direct response tojust stop oil
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thatis direct response tojust stop oil that is contextualising what they are actually doing in terms of sport, greenwashing and spore and water sport doing about the climate crisis? we know there are so many ways that sport is tied up with the climate crisis, whether you have gulf states are oil states involved in sport, or the logistics of flying, the women's world cup in football the summer, hundreds of players over to australia on the other side of the world, plastic bottles at games, whatever it is, we know there are huge issues with professional sport and the climate crisis. so it is really disappointing that we rarely see a kind of nuanced response to this. it is all the hysteria of these people are criminals and reigning are sporting events, rather than trying to get to the crux of the issue, which is how little time we have got to save the planet. it is which is how little time we have got to save the planet.— to save the planet. it is good to hear from _ to save the planet. it is good to hear from people, _ to save the planet. it is good to hear from people, though, - to save the planet. it is good to| hear from people, though, good to save the planet. it is good to . hear from people, though, good to hearfrom people, though, good to address other people's views. michael near preston, lorry driver, services near preston, good on you
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for phoning in. what would you like to say? tojust stop oil? yes. for phoning in. what would you like to say? to just stop oil?— to say? to just stop oil? yes, i've been listening _ to say? to just stop oil? yes, i've been listening to _ to say? to just stop oil? yes, i've been listening to what _ to say? to just stop oil? yes, i've been listening to what people - to say? to just stop oil? yes, i've been listening to what people had| been listening to what people had been listening to what people had been saying this morning about stopping the oil in the process and i think it is an absolute disgrace whatjust stop oil are doing to the country. notjust me, obviously as a lorry driver, but they are just totally ruining the country and it is making us a laughing stock of europe if we are not already... obviously i won't say the name of the company i work for but we have been targeted personally and it is horrendous, let's get the wagons of the road, let's do this, what a load of rubbish. theyjust don't think. the goods, how it's going to get supermarkets? how are the petrol going to get to the petrol station? etc. the protesters blocking the roads, come on. i have got a 44
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tonne wagon here. if one of them comes out in front of me, i'm not going to stop for them. obviously i would, but... ifi going to stop for them. obviously i would, but... if i have to breakfor them. would, but... ifi have to break for them. ., , it would, but... ifi have to break for them-_ it is— would, but... ifi have to break for them._ it is dangerous. them. dangerous. it is dangerous. what would _ them. dangerous. it is dangerous. what would happen _ them. dangerous. it is dangerous. what would happen if _ them. dangerous. it is dangerous. what would happen if god - them. dangerous. it is dangerous. what would happen if god forbid i them. dangerous. it is dangerous. i what would happen if god forbid one of them dies, it would be uproar, let's feel sorry for them. they are an absolute disgrace and what they are doing is wrong, absolutely wrong. are doing is wrong, absolutely wronu. . ., a . are doing is wrong, absolutely wron. . ., a . ., . ~ wrong. got another michael to talk to ou, wrong. got another michael to talk to you. my — wrong. got another michael to talk to you. my meet — wrong. got another michael to talk to you, my meet michael. - wrong. got another michael to talk to you, my meet michael. he - wrong. got another michael to talk to you, my meet michael. he says| to you, my meet michael. he says they are an absolute disgrace. i they are an absolute disgrace. i find it amazing, to be honest, the views— find it amazing, to be honest, the views that — find it amazing, to be honest, the views that some of the people are expressing today. what we are talking — expressing today. what we are talking about here is the end of life on— talking about here is the end of life on earth. any inconvenience that people feel, any inconvenience that people feel, any inconvenience that is— that people feel, any inconvenience that is created by the destruction
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to spore — that is created by the destruction to spore is, i genuinely get that it must _ to spore is, i genuinely get that it must be _ to spore is, i genuinely get that it must be frustrating, i genuinely get that it _ must be frustrating, i genuinely get that it must be irritating to people that it must be irritating to people that this _ that it must be irritating to people that this kind of stuff is going on, but let's— that this kind of stuff is going on, but let's be — that this kind of stuff is going on, but let's be honest, what is the protest — but let's be honest, what is the protest aboutis the nub of the thing here is— protest aboutis the nub of the thing here is that people are protesting because _ here is that people are protesting because the government and governments around the world are basically— governments around the world are basically ignoring all of the climate _ basically ignoring all of the climate science, they are proceeding as though _ climate science, they are proceeding as though it is business as usual, the current— as though it is business as usual, the current government is planning on opening — the current government is planning on opening oilfields, new oil fields in the _ on opening oilfields, new oil fields in the north sea, we are talking about— in the north sea, we are talking about the — in the north sea, we are talking about the end of life on earth. michael— about the end of life on earth. michael in _ about the end of life on earth. michael in preston... absolute rubbish. absolute _ michael in preston... absolute rubbish. absolute rubbish. - michael in preston... absolute i rubbish. absolute rubbish. what michael in preston... absolute - rubbish. absolute rubbish. what is our rubbish. absolute rubbish. what is your answer? _ rubbish. absolute rubbish. what is your answer? my— rubbish. absolute rubbish. what is your answer? my answer— rubbish. absolute rubbish. what is your answer? my answer is - rubbish. absolute rubbish. what is your answer? my answer is we - rubbish. absolute rubbish. what is| your answer? my answer is we have rubbish. absolute rubbish. what is - your answer? my answer is we have to transform _ your answer? my answer is we have to transform society. there is no other option— transform society. there is no other option here, — transform society. there is no other option here, it is going to be difficult, _ option here, it is going to be difficult, painful, it's going to be really— difficult, painful, it's going to be really awkward and going to result in people — really awkward and going to result in people having to massively change
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their lives _ in people having to massively change their lives i— in people having to massively change their lives. i would in people having to massively change their lives. iwould prefer we didn't— their lives. iwould prefer we didn't have to do it, don't get me wrong, _ didn't have to do it, don't get me wrong, but — didn't have to do it, don't get me wrong, but people talk about their lives being disrupted and how they find it— lives being disrupted and how they find it difficult to go shopping and do stuff, — find it difficult to go shopping and do stuff, i— find it difficult to go shopping and do stuff, i have a child, i... the ru:b do stuff, i have a child, i... the rugby final— do stuff, i have a child, i... iie: rugby final premiership do stuff, i have a child, i... tie: rugby final premiership pales do stuff, i have a child, i... t“i9 rugby final premiership pales into insignificance. michael, you said this is ruining the country. some would say it is ruining a lot more than that, what is happening to us at the moment.— than that, what is happening to us at the moment. what they are doing, a art from at the moment. what they are doing, apart from disrupting _ at the moment. what they are doing, apart from disrupting obvious - at the moment. what they are doing, apart from disrupting obvious the - apart from disrupting obvious the sporting — apart from disrupting obvious the sporting events, which spore, it doesn't — sporting events, which spore, it doesn't matter, don't get me wrong, i'm doesn't matter, don't get me wrong, i'm a _ doesn't matter, don't get me wrong, i'm a great— doesn't matter, don't get me wrong, i'm a great sports fan, but when they— i'm a great sports fan, but when they start — i'm a great sports fan, but when they start refuting landmarks and heritage — they start refuting landmarks and heritage are in the country, that is an absolute — heritage are in the country, that is an absolute disgrace and they are getting _ an absolute disgrace and they are getting locked up, slap on the wrist and a _ getting locked up, slap on the wrist and a few— getting locked up, slap on the wrist and a few later they are out again. somebody— and a few later they are out again. somebody said, one of your previous college _ somebody said, one of your previous college that they need to be locked up, college that they need to be locked up. they—
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college that they need to be locked up, they do. it is an absolute disgrace _ up, they do. it is an absolute disgrace-— up, they do. it is an absolute disurace. . :, up. they do. it is an absolute disurace. . :, disgrace. can i come on here? let the other michael— disgrace. can i come on here? let the other michael income - disgrace. can i come on here? let the other michael income and - the other michael income and iugghng the other michael income and juggling my the other michael income and juggling my michael's. tiara the other michael income and juggling my michael's. two great, i understand the _ juggling my michael's. two great, i understand the anger _ juggling my michael's. two great, i understand the anger that - juggling my michael's. two great, i understand the anger that some i understand the anger that some people feel about this. i understand that people are looking at this and going this is messing up my life, getting on my way, this is awkward, this is frustrating, these people are not criminals, they are heroes to be honest, they shine a matter on the actions of politicians who are sitting on their hands as if there is nothing for us to worry about. and this is going to result... we are possibly past the point where we could avert major ecological damage to the planet. the only planet that
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we know of that sustains life in the entire... and we might be past the point where we are able to avert that, but we are talking about the end of life on earth. if we get the planet to a point where no one can live on it because ecological positions are so awful... michael near preston. _ positions are so awful. .. michael near preston. i— positions are so awful... michael near preston. i was _ positions are so awful... michael near preston. i wasjust - positions are so awful... michael near preston. i wasjust going i positions are so awful... michael near preston. i wasjust going to j near preston. i was 'ust going to sa , one near preston. i was 'ust going to say. thing _ near preston. i was 'ust going to say. thing i— near preston. i wasjust going to say, one thing i don't _ near preston. i wasjust going to say, one thing i don't know - near preston. i wasjust going to say, one thing i don't know if. say, one thing i don't know if anyone — say, one thing i don't know if anyone else has mentioned it today, all the _ anyone else has mentioned it today, all the time — anyone else has mentioned it today, all the time on the hands that they have got, — all the time on the hands that they have got, none of them, do none of them _ have got, none of them, do none of them actually work? every time you see them _ them actually work? every time you see them they are doing this, chaining — see them they are doing this, chaining themselves to things, come on. chaining themselves to things, come on let's_ chaining themselves to things, come on. let's get a life. | chaining themselves to things, come on. let's get a life.— on. let's get a life. i work and i no to on. let's get a life. i work and i go to protest- _ on. let's get a life. i work and i go to protest. i _ on. let's get a life. i work and i go to protest. i work _ on. let's get a life. i work and i go to protest. i work and - on. let's get a life. i work and i go to protest. i work and i - on. let's get a life. i work and i go to protest. i work and i go i on. let's get a life. i work and i | go to protest. i work and i go to process. i take my children to school, i do the shopping, i go to work... , :, , i. work... sorry to interrupt, your shopping. _ work... sorry to interrupt, your shopping. there _ work... sorry to interrupt, your shopping, there is _ work... sorry to interrupt, your shopping, there is a _ work... sorry to interrupt, your shopping, there is a great - work... sorry to interrupt, your| shopping, there is a great thing about— shopping, there is a great thing about getting the wagons of the row,
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how would _ about getting the wagons of the row, how would you get your shopping at the supermarket if there is no wagons— the supermarket if there is no wagons on the request mac i�*m the supermarket if there is no wagons on the request mac i'm not sa in: wagons on the request mac i'm not saying there — wagons on the request mac i'm not saying there shouldn't _ wagons on the request mac i'm not saying there shouldn't be _ wagons on the request mac i'm not saying there shouldn't be any - wagons on the request mac i'm not i saying there shouldn't be any wagons on the road. what i'm saying is they shouldn't be using fossil fuels to power those wagons. those wagons have to be, we have to look at alternative technologies! taste have to be, we have to look at alternative technologies! we tried alternative technologies! we tried electric wagons _ electric wagons _ alternative technologies! we tried electric wagons in _ alternative technologies! we tried electric wagons in work, - alternative technologies! we tried electric wagons in work, we've - alternative technologies! we tried i electric wagons in work, we've tried them, _ electric wagons in work, we've tried alternative technologies! we tried electric wagons in _ alternative technologies! we tried electric wagons in work, - alternative technologies! we tried electric wagons in work, we've i alternative technologies! we tried i electric wagons in work, we've tried them, _ electric wagons in work, we've tried them, they— electric wagons in work, we've tried them, they don't work.— them, they— electric wagons in work, we've tried them, they don't work.— electric wagons in work, we've tried them, they don't work. where we need to work on the — electric wagons in work, we've tried them, they don't work. where we need to work on the — them, they don't work. where we need them, they don't work. where we need to work on the science _ them, they don't work. where we need to work on the science then _ them, they don't work. where we need to work on the science then because i to work on the science then because what we can't do is just carry on to work on the science _ them, they don't work. where we need to work on the science then _ them, they don't work. where we need to work on the science then because i to work on the science then because what we can't do is just carry on using fossil fuels. using fossil fuels. what we can't do is just carry on using fossilfuels. i’m what we can't do is 'ust carry on what we can't do is just carry on using fossilfuels. i’m what we can't do is 'ust carry on using fossil fuels._ using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want — using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want to _ using fossil fuels._ using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want — using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want to _ using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want to sound - using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want to sound rude i using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want to sound - using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want to sound rude i using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want to sound rude but| using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i- don't want to sound rude but you are using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i don't want to sound rude but| using fossilfuels. i'm sorry, i- don't want to sound rude but you are talking _ against russian forces. tried talking _ don't want to sound rude but you are talking absolute rubbish. no, don't want to sound rude but you are talking absolute rubbish.— talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm don't want to sound rude but you are talking absolute rubbish. no, don't want to sound rude but you are talking absolute rubbish.— talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is not. it is talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not- it is the _ talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is the end _ talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not- it is the _ talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is the end _ talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is the end of _ talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is the end of life _ talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is the end of life on - talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is the end of life on air. i not. it is the end of life on air. not. it is the end of _ talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is the end of life _ talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is the end of life on - talking absolute rubbish. no, i'm not. it is the end of life on air. i not. it is the end of life on air. thank you very much for listening, i thank you very much for listening, i hope you find interesting. have a hope you find interesting. have a wonderful weekend. wonderful weekend. live from london, live from london, this is bbc news. this is bbc news.
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ukraine calls for more ukraine calls for more long—range weapons — long—range weapons — to speed up it's counter—offensive to speed up it's counter—offensive against russian forces. we'll hear from the front line. japan's fukushima nuclear plant moves a step closer to releasing treated contaminated water into the pacific ocean.
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