competitor to twitter. meanwhile twitter considers legal action, accusing the company of stealing its trade secrets. i'm helena humphrey, good to have you with us. but first tonight, allegations have emerged in a newspaper about a bbc presenter. our culture and media editor katie razzall has more. hello. there has been in the queues of serious misconduct with a teenager which began when the teenager was as seven ten years old. the presenter, who has not been named paid the teenager tens of thousands of pounds of sexually explicit images stop we understand the

bbc is looking into the allegations which are clearly variably serious and some claim the well—known presenter paid more than 30,000 pounds in returns those explicit images. the individual�*s family is reported to have complained to the bbc on may 19 this year and begged them to make the man stopped sending cash because the mother claims her child, who is now 20, had gone from a happy—go—lucky youngster to a ghostlike crack addict in three years because it is claimed the money is being used to fund a drug habit. the bbc statement said we treat any allegation very seriously and have processes in place to proactively deal with them. as part of that if they will receive information that requires further investigation and examination they will take steps to do that including actively attempt to speak to the people who contacted us in order to seek further detail and understanding of the situation. the son has reported

that the male presenter has been taken off there and we do understand that he is not scheduled to appear in the coming days. the new social media platform threads by instagram launched this this week. an historic 70 million downloads by friday. threads — meta's and mark zuckerberg's challenger to twitter launched on wednesday night to much fa nfa re. and the new app is on pace to break download records. threads is linked to meta's already popular instagram app — allowing instagram's existing two billion monthly active users to seamlessly transition to the new platform to share text, videos and photos. zuckerberg said his goal for threads is to have "a public conversations app "with over one billion people on it." "twitter has had the opportunity to do this "but hasn't nailed it. "hopefully we will." threads debuts at a time when twitter has continued to see a rise in hate speech and some users

have expressed fustration with elon musk�*s changes since his takeover in october. so, how do twitter and threads stack up against one another? twitter allows non—twitter blue subscribers to write posts up to 280 characters — while threads allows up to 500 characters per post. both allow users to post links, photos and videos on their apps but twitter limits video to two minutes and 20 seconds and threads allows videos of up to five minutes in length. well, perhaps most consequentially, verification carries over from instagram to threads users, but for twitter you have to be subscribed to twitter blue to get the blue tick. and for the time being twitter is the only platform where you can experience direct messaging, trend stories and hashtags. to discuss all of this now, i am joined by mike isaac, new york times technology reporter and carl tobias, university of richmond school of law.

welcome to you both and it is great to have you with us. mike, beginning with you, what we see right now is that it seems threads is on track to become the most rapidly downloaded app ever. why do you think that is? the downloaded app ever. why do you think that is?— think that is? the numbers are staggering- — think that is? the numbers are staggering- we _ think that is? the numbers are staggering. we have _ think that is? the numbers are staggering. we have not - think that is? the numbers are staggering. we have not seenl staggering. we have not seen anything like this since, potentially, chatterjee pt, the ai bot uses signups over the course of two months which broke 100 million users so it is crazy. i think it represents the desire that people want to basically have a twitter that is not owned by elon musk, that they can use and i think it is spent the past nine months or so under the ownership of elon musk dealing with a bunch of strong changes and erratic changes and it has turned off a lot of the long—time users who were used to how the original twitter works. that means they

are open to new possibility. iii are open to new possibility. if you take a look at the numbers they are, according to an sec finding from 2013 it took twitter four years to build the same number of users that threads gained in one day so quite some staggering numbers there. why do you think it is seen such a quick uptake? mike is ritht. i seen such a quick uptake? mike is right. ithink— seen such a quick uptake? mike is right. i think it _ seen such a quick uptake? mike is right. i think it is _ is right. i think it is dissatisfaction with twitter perhaps pre— mask but since mask— perhaps pre— mask but since mask i— perhaps pre— mask but since mask i think it has intensified. a lot of specific restrictions and limitations and — restrictions and limitations and they cut stuff substantially. so all of that together makes threads look even — together makes threads look even more appealing to many pe0ple~ — even more appealing to many --eole. �* ., even more appealing to many --eole. �* . ., even more appealing to many --eole. �* ., ., people. and with all of those issues in _ people. and with all of those issues in hand _ people. and with all of those issues in hand would - people. and with all of those issues in hand would you - people. and with all of those i issues in hand would you just mention their, mike, i guess one of the questions is looking forward what does this mean for

twitter and what does this mean for its owner, elon musk? to carl's for its owner, elon musk? trr carl's point earlier, there has been dissatisfaction with twitter over the years but elon accelerated that and those changes that he made were in short order and make people more upset. so now as they are potentially bleeding users as people consider going to zuckerberg's version of twitter, elon should do some thinking around to a need to change my strategy, is making people pay $8 a month for features that are not really that much better or sensibly different than using twitter beforehand, is that the right strategy? 0r beforehand, is that the right strategy? or should we work on gaining back our advertisers, many of which have left the platform or at least paused

advertising because of the policy and content moderation changes. so i don't know, hopefully for his sake, i guess, is thinking about strategy and what he wants to do in the near term. i strategy and what he wants to do in the near term.— strategy and what he wants to do in the near term. i am sure is thinking _ do in the near term. i am sure is thinking about _ do in the near term. i am sure is thinking about strategy - do in the near term. i am sure is thinking about strategy but| is thinking about strategy but if he does not make those changes, some of these changes you just outlined their, carl, ultimately what do you think this means for the future of twitter? you outlined a plethora of perceived problems, do you think that, ultimately, the uptake of threads and issues we have seen it twitter could mean we are seeing the beginning of the end for twitter?— beginning of the end for twitter? , ., ., , ., , twitter? maybe that overstates it but we will— twitter? maybe that overstates it but we will see. _ twitter? maybe that overstates it but we will see. it _ twitter? maybe that overstates it but we will see. it does - it but we will see. it does look like a very quick start and i think that has been helped by the questions around elon musk and twitter�*s longer term going back performance but

we will see. a lot can be explained by what has happened since musk came and some dissatisfaction. so i don't think it is over yet but changes would probably be in order at twitter. we will see if threads is as effective as the number of people have come to it recently.— to it recently. carl, iwanted to it recently. carl, iwanted to ask you — to it recently. carl, iwanted to ask you more _ to it recently. carl, iwanted to ask you more about - to it recently. carl, iwanted to ask you more about that. j to it recently. carl, i wanted i to ask you more about that. do you think these issues are just with elon musk and his leadership at twitter since his takeover or could it also just be down to, you know, technical issues with twitter, user dissatisfaction that has grown over time?— dissatisfaction that has grown over time? , .,, , over time? there were problems before musk _ over time? there were problems before musk came, _ over time? there were problems before musk came, in _ over time? there were problems before musk came, in fairness, l before musk came, in fairness, and the — before musk came, in fairness, and the long—term outlook is unclear— and the long—term outlook is unclear but i think people may be help— unclear but i think people may be help full that wanting to

-et be help full that wanting to get over it would improve but it is not— get over it would improve but it is not clear that it has. so we wiii— it is not clear that it has. so we willjust have to see if meta _ we willjust have to see if meta can capitalise on that which _ meta can capitalise on that which i _ meta can capitalise on that which i think is what zuckerberg is trying to do. zuckerberg, coming in there at an opportune moment with this new platform ijust wonder, mike, what you thought about what carl had to say.- what carl had to say. totally. these are — what carl had to say. totally. these are early _ what carl had to say. totally. these are early days - what carl had to say. totally. these are early days and - what carl had to say. totally. these are early days and onej these are early days and one thing to watch is that a bunch of people willing to sign up, especially because instagram made it easy for people to sign up made it easy for people to sign up and you bring your flow list over two threads making it easier than using a different app easier than using a different app like blue sky or mustard and we have to build your list all over again the people may be too lazy to do over time, it takes a lot of time. but the

real question is what will the health and participation of the network be? carl was saying in the coming days we will get proof of that and that is what twitter has had, for all its problems and come planes, the company has been around for 18 years and users do stick to the platform and come back every day and we will see what the instagram version of twitter, if they have the same sensibility.— sensibility. quite an interesting - sensibility. quite an interesting point - sensibility. quite an| interesting point and sensibility. quite an l interesting point and i sensibility. quite an - interesting point and i cannot believe it has been 18 years. i think you made a lot of people watching feel very old. please stay with us, we do have more to talk about on this programme but earlier i spoke to the european consumer organisation on threads in the eu and, crucially, why the app has not launched there.

thank you forjoining the programme. 70 million users for threads already but none of them in the eu. why is that? why is threads not open yet for business in the eu? that why is threads not open yet for business in the eu?— business in the eu? that is a question for _ business in the eu? that is a question for meta _ business in the eu? that is a question for meta to - business in the eu? that is a question for meta to answerl business in the eu? that is a i question for meta to answer but what i can tell you and many people have heard that they are not entering europe because of our regulatory rules. that is a misrepresentation. we have rules to ensure that people's data is secure and protected and to ensure that consumers rights have been respected and that markets remain open and competitive and from that point of view if meta is not entering europe for those reasons well, it says a lot about their services. it says a lot about their services-— it says a lot about their services. , . , ., , ., services. explain this to us a little bit- _

services. explain this to us a little bit. why _ services. explain this to us a little bit. why the _ services. explain this to us a little bit. why the caution i little bit. why the caution from meta? how do they think they may not be, you know, adhering to eu regulations with their platform?— their platform? over the last ears their platform? over the last years the _ their platform? over the last years the eu _ their platform? over the last years the eu has _ their platform? over the last years the eu has adopted - their platform? over the last years the eu has adopted a l years the eu has adopted a number of laws to ensure the people's personal data is protected and people remain in control of their data but also, recently, we have adopted new laws regarding social media and services provided by platforms that need to allow new entrants and new companies to offer services to consumers. this is the digital market site and the objective is to make markets more open and objective. of course, meta is entering with

users of instagram and that raises concerns from the point of view for eu rules because meta can take in vantage of the data of that customer base it holds in order to boost its own service to the detriment of others and that is a source of concern under european law. i also wanted to ask about consumer appetite in all of this as well because if we look at some of the reaction including in the uk, of course, which has recently left the eu, some politicians have been celebrating the fact that they have access to the app. do you think there is a world in which the eu could be too heavy—handed in regard to regulation? i heavy-handed in regard to regulation?— heavy-handed in regard to regulation? i don't think so. actually we _ regulation? i don't think so. actually we have _ regulation? i don't think so. actually we have taken - regulation? i don't think so. | actually we have taken many years for europe to start raining in big companies. for too long they have been let off the hook and now it is high time to start regulating these companies that affect so many

lives. you mention the uk, well, the uk is currently discussing its new rules that they will apply to digital platforms. so the fact that this app may be available in the uk, that is one thing but meta and other companies are now subject to similar rules that we have in europe. what about people _ that we have in europe. what about people who _ that we have in europe. what about people who just - that we have in europe. what about people who just want l that we have in europe. what| about people who just want to get onto the app? what about people want to take part in these conversations? whether meta will offer _ these conversations? whether meta will offer the _ these conversations? whether meta will offer the app - these conversations? whether meta will offer the app in - meta will offer the app in europe is not for the eu to decide which services are going to offer to consumers in europe. but what it is for the eu to say is under which conditions the services are to be offered here and that directly concerns the different rules and regulations that this platform needs to comply in order to ensure that people and

consumers can use these services in total confidence and security. so it is not about whether europe is being too tough on meta or not, it is about meta services entering europe in a way that complies with european standards. i 'ust want to ask fl with european standards. i 'ust want to ask about i with european standards. i 'ust want to ask about the i with european standards. ijust want to ask about the business model of these apps. do you think threads' failure to lodge in the european union could be a sign that these business models of vacuuming up large portions of data, but that kind of business model could actually be under threat? i think that could be a reason, and the fact that these companies, business models are based on collecting and processing huge amount of data which are then used mainly in advertising or markets, these business models are not legal

in europe. but what is legal in europe to collect and use personal data without respecting minimum standards —— illegal in europe. people need to give consent if their data is to be used for advertising. to ensure that these products are designed in a way that by default are respecting people's right, being personal protection or data protection. so from that perspective yes, these business models are at odds with the european standards, but here of course the fundamental question is we as a society, which type of services do we want to thrive in europe and abroad in the world. which type of platforms do we want to have on our phones, on our tablets? and thatis phones, on our tablets? and that is a question that is not for meta to answer but for us as a society and for our elected representatives.

director of legal and economic affairs at the european consumer organisation, good to have you on, thank you. meanwhile, twitter chief elon musk is threatening to sue its fast growing rival. twitter�*s attorney sent a letter to meta accusing it of "systematic, wilful, and unlawful misappropriation "of twitter�*s trade secrets" — accusations meta representatives have denied. bbc technology editor zoe kleinman has more. the fact that this lender has been sent shows that musk is seriously rattled by his new rivals. as you said threads has had millions of people sign up to it since it launched really just over 21t hours ago, and it has really taken off. and i think the reason for that is because meta has mobilised its enormous community that is already on instagram. there are 2 billion people using instagram, and you have to have

an instagram login to get onto threads. 0nce an instagram login to get onto threads. once you've got that it's an incredibly easy process, three clicks and you've got a profile already. and you can select to follow everybody already that you follow on instagram so you have this ready—made community. and there are other textbased social networks that have sprung up already been around for a while, and suddenly people have discovered them because elon musk�*s leadership of twitter has proved to be quite controversial, he has made a lot of changes quite quickly without much mess —— explanation and some people have been really annoyed by that, and they have been looking for something else. starting a new social network is quite hard because you get there, you don't know anyone, there, you don't know anyone, the engagement is low and it can be quite a boring experience. that has not been the case so far with threads. and i think elon musk is that actually if he does have a serious rival now, this is it. and matter does have a wrap —— method does have a reputation in terms of carbon copying

certain platforms or aspects of other social media platforms. i think meta would say it is inspired by the social networks and absolutely we have seen it before. �* , . , before. and it very closely co - ied before. and it very closely copied tiktok _ before. and it very closely copied tiktok with - before. and it very closely i copied tiktok with instagram reels, it copied snapchat with facebook stories, both of which quite annoyingly i imagine for the original creators have done quite well for the platform, have proved to be very popular and i have worked. and threads appears to be going the same way, people seem to be voting with their feet and they seem to be enjoying this new social network. i think elon musk has got a lot to prove here, ifeel like this letter is a shot across the bow because fundamentally he has got to prove that meta has stolen trade secrets, ideas in themselves are not covered by us copyright law singled out his got to prove that something has actually been stolen. meta says nobody who worked at twitter has been working on threads. elon musk let go

thousands of employees last year, have some of them ended up year, have some of them ended up working for meta, it is quite possible, they are in the same sector in the same heart of silicon valley. but proving that will be something else. and here is another interesting thing— meta owns the patent for news feeds. this is an enormous theme, all social networks are based on news feeds, that's what you see when you go to a platform, it's the collection of stuff that is based on people you have interacted with, people you follow, things you are interested in. so if twitter wants to pursue legal action against meta, meta could easily turn around and say you know that newsfeed of yours, twitter, we have the patent on that. it is this interesting spat between these two enormous multibillion—dollar companies. back over to my panel, joining us this evening is mike isaac, new york times technology reporter and carl tobias from the university of richmond school of law. carl, iwant the university of richmond school of law. carl, i want to turn to you because we were talking about that legal case there, the attorney for twitter

threatening legal action. there are plenty of other twitter clones out there, do you think that elon musk has a case here? it is not clear now. the letter was very sharply worded, made a lot of allegations, but as zoe suggests we are not in a court of law, this isjust a letter. and we will see if litigation happens. but it may be that musk is quite threatened, and this lawyer who has written it is well respected, and represented musk in his acquisition when twitter sued musk at the time. and so they are both familiar with one another, and it is a strongly worded letter, but you have to prove it. and that is something we will have to see in the

future. and maybe musk is threatened and maybe this is a strong response. but if you are going to litigation, you have to make the prove of the facts and that may be quite difficult to do. ~ ~ . . , and that may be quite difficult todo. ~~' . ., , , to do. mike, it already is tuite to do. mike, it already is quite a _ to do. mike, it already is quite a crowded - to do. mike, it already is quite a crowded area - to do. mike, it already is - quite a crowded area anyway, the social media landscape. lots of platforms that were once big hits. what do you think it needs to happen for threads to avoid that fate? yeah, honestly the different approach that threads is taking compared to twitter�*s classic timeline view is, on twitter it is reverse chronological, meaning you're going to see pretty much everything that your followers, pretty much everything that yourfollowers, or that pretty much everything that your followers, or that people who you are following post. but threads' approach is similar to how facebook and instagram works, which means it's algorithmic, it is curated for you based on what facebook�*s system is basically think you

want to see, and zuckerberg and the instagram had, adam mosseri has said they want threads to be a friendly alternative. so my guess is they will try and keep it light and nice and not be focused on news or political spats like twitter seems to be a form for all the time, but i'm curious if they can keep that for long enough to keep people to stick around. i have to sa i people to stick around. i have to say i am — people to stick around. i have to say i am curious _ people to stick around. i have to say i am curious about - people to stick around. i have to say i am curious about that as well, and we cannot ignore the timing of this, threads launching just a few months before a presidential election, both facebook, twitter, they have struggled to moderate misinformation during both 2016 and 2020. carl, any thoughts on how threads might handle that challenge? it how threads might handle that challente? .., , challenge? it could be difficult. _ challenge? it could be difficult. others - challenge? it could be difficult. others have l challenge? it could be i difficult. others have not challenge? it could be - difficult. others have not had much — difficult. others have not had much success. and we will have to see. — much success. and we will have to see. but _ much success. and we will have to see, but the timing is exquisite in some ways, and

musk— exquisite in some ways, and musk gave that timing really to zuckerberg and he is capitalising on it. at least in the short_ capitalising on it. at least in the short term. whether it will pay out — the short term. whether it will pay out in _ the short term. whether it will pay out in the long—term is less— pay out in the long—term is less clear, and litigation may 'ust less clear, and litigation may just cloud and inflame everyone without — just cloud and inflame everyone without much resolution, especially if it is protracted. mike. — especially if it is protracted. mike. i_ especially if it is protracted. mike, i want to raise something with you. echo chambers, that is something we spoke a lot mike, i want to raise something with you. echo chambers, that is something we about in 2016 and in 2020, conservative voices are already unhappy with content moderation on threads, elon musk had angered liberals with some of his policies, do you think, if you don't mind, briefly, that threads could end up dividing users even more? i’m threads could end up dividing users even more?— users even more? i'm very curious — users even more? i'm very curious to _ users even more? i'm very curious to see _ users even more? i'm very curious to see how - users even more? i'm very curious to see how they . curious to see how they implement duration across threads. conservatives in the united states at least had real concerns with how facebook operates for a long period of time, if folks are being

"suppressed", which facebook has adequately —— adamantly denied for years, you wonder if thatis denied for years, you wonder if that is going to be repeated with threads, or if we will start having the same sort of fights over again in public. but it really does depend on how they make this work, and zuckerberg himself said himself we had a ton of work to do, they are still planning and it is day one, so it is time to watch and wait to see if this thing sticks around.- watch and wait to see if this thing sticks around. early days indeed. mike _ thing sticks around. early days indeed. mike isaac, _ thing sticks around. early days indeed. mike isaac, the - thing sticks around. early days indeed. mike isaac, the new. indeed. mike isaac, the new york times' technology reporter and carl tobias from the university of richmond school of law, great to have your thoughts, we really appreciate you coming on the programme. you're watching bbc news. i am helena humphrey in washington, dc, thanks for your company, we have plenty more coming up at the top of the hour. hello there. we closed out our

working week on a hot and increasingly humid story, in fact many areas across the country see areas in the mid— high 20s, peaking in the southeast with 30 degrees as an afternoon hi. that means temperatures not falling very far at all, so the start of saturday morning is going to be quite an uncomfortable one, quite an uncomfortable one, quite an uncomfortable one, quite a muggy one, temperatures in london sitting at around 20 degrees already at 68 fahrenheit. with that humidity, unfortunately with this weather front pushing in from the south—west could trigger some sharp unburied downpours as we go through the start of the weekend. so dry unsettled sunny start for many, but here is the front and you can see the brighter colours denoting the intensity of that thundery rain. large hail not out of the question as well. it sweeps quite quickly north and east, so behind it there will be some sunshine and in actual fact across parts of east anglia we could see temperatures into the high 20s. but still some of these showers, quite

torrential, large how not out of the question and certainly the potential for a lot of rain in a short space of time. so as we move into scotland, temperatures into the mid— 20s, probably the rain not arriving in the far north and east of scotland until the end of the afternoon. into sunday we are still under the influence of low pressure, a bit more of a breeze driving the potential for some showers as we go through so for the second half of the weekend, some rain easing slowly away from the northeast of scotland, potential for some sharp potentialfor some sharp sunbury rain to move up from the near continent across east anglia and southeast england. we will have to keep a close —— close eye on that, some uncertainty in the forecast. top temperature is, 17—23 as our overall height. as we close out the weekend into next week, low pressure never too far away, it looks likely that as we see these areas of low pressure moving their way steadily eastwards we lose that south—westerly flow and drag in more of a north—westerly. so our week ahead looks quite

unsettled at times. they will be some sunny spells but temperatures have the potential to just be a little bit disappointing. so next week, a little bit tricky. it looks likely to be fresher with some sunny spells, but still the risk of some sharp, blustery showers. to raise