climate protests on his own platform when keir starmer was talking about education and the economy. we do have to fix the fundamentals. we can't carry on just patching up. protests on the picket line, too, as the fight over teachers�* pay goes on. no ifs, no buts, no education cuts! no decisions are easy when it comes to bringing inflation down. but we have to do the things that are right for the long—term benefit of the country. protest at the most genteel location. climate activists at centre court. but the biggest shouts right now are about the serious squeeze on the economy. rate hikes, pricier government borrowing and the fastest fall in house prices in years. there is plenty of protest at the government's plans. but our main question this morning, what would labour do instead?

the woman who can tell us is rachel reeves who wants to be labour's next chancellor. how does the govt explain what's going wrong? treausry minister, victoria atkins joins us too. how much trouble is the bbc in, with a star presenter under fire? president biden will be touching down here in a few hours time, his climate envoy and friend john kerry is here first live. and you know us, it's sunday, so there'll be some star dust — james norton, of happy valley, and luke thompson of bridgerton — on their very different stage show, shortly to go to our cinema screens. morning morning, with all of us at the desk. david gauke, who sat in conservative cabinets for many years,

the editor of the daily mirror alison phillips, and former editor of itn now media commentator, stewart purvis. a very warm welcome to you all. lets look at what is on the front pages. no surprise, most of them are leading on the story about the bbc. we hope to look at them in a few seconds. they are not displaying for now. let's hear the very latest. 0h, now. let's hear the very latest. oh, there are the newspapers after all. they pretty much all lead on the bbc story. the front of the mail says the bbc is in crisis. the mirror says the bbc star parted with bosses after the complaint was made. the broadsheets also go with the story. the sunday times says there is a bbc

crisis. the telegraph says the bbc is under fire over an explicit picture scandal. let's speak to lizo mzimba. what do we know? well. picture scandal. let's speak to lizo mzimba. what do we know? well, these ve serious mzimba. what do we know? well, these very serious allegations _ mzimba. what do we know? well, these very serious allegations came _ mzimba. what do we know? well, these very serious allegations came out - mzimba. what do we know? well, these very serious allegations came out in - very serious allegations came out in the sun newspaper, someone of the newspaper describes as a top bbc style. the newspaper says the well known name are paid more than £35,000 to a young individual, in return for that individual sending sexually explicit photographs of themselves. it's something the newspaper began when the individual was 17 years old, and legally still a child. the presenter in question, we understand, is not due on air in the nearfuture. but we we understand, is not due on air in the near future. but we are not sure, and we have not been able to confirm, whether the bbc has formally suspended that presenter or

not. the bbc, of course, has some very serious questions to ask in this matter. the young individual�*s families say that they complained to the bbc back in may, but the presenter remained on air. the bbc says that it takes any allegations very seriously and it attempts to speak to those that have contacted them to get further details. but the bbc pointed out if it gets no reply or receive no further contact, that can limit its ability to progress things, but it does not mean that inquiries stop. all of this has the potential, and in all probability is already doing serious damage to the corporation's reputation. liza. corporation's reputation. lizo, thank you _ corporation's reputation. lizo, thank you very _ corporation's reputation. lizo, thank you very much - corporation's reputation. lizo, thank you very much indeed. l corporation's reputation. lizo, thank you very much indeed. alison, you and other newspaper editors have put this story very prominently. it's clearly very serious for those directly involved, but why do you think it matters to the wider country? i think it matters to the wider

count ? ~ �* �* , think it matters to the wider count ? ~' �* �* , ., country? i think the bbc is a national public _ country? i think the bbc is a national public broadcaster, | country? i think the bbc is a - national public broadcaster, and the whole relationship between the bbc and viewers is based on trust. if what we are seeing here is a breakdown of trust, both between the presenter and this individual, but also between the presenter and their bosses, and also between that whole relationship between viewer and broadcaster, that has huge applications, and i think news is entirely built on trust. if you don't believe the people bringing you the news, that is where so much breaks down, that is where we break down democracy. we breaks down, that is where we break down democracy.— down democracy. we are not speculative _ down democracy. we are not speculative at _ down democracy. we are not speculative at all _ down democracy. we are not speculative at all about - down democracy. we are not speculative at all about the l speculative at all about the identity of the person involved, the bbc is a huge organisation that does all sorts of different things, but, stewart, this is your world. you are still on the board of channel 4, you have advised lots of different broadcasters after a long career at itn. what you think the risks are for the bbc more broadly? i just for the bbc more broadly? i 'ust finished my fl for the bbc more broadly? i 'ust finished my stint i for the bbc more broadly? i 'ust finished my stint on i for the bbc more broadly? i 'ust finished my stint on the i for the bbc more broadly? ijust finished my stint on the channel 4 board, _ finished my stint on the channel 4 board, but— finished my stint on the channel 4 board, but i— finished my stint on the channel 4 board, but i was there for seven years _ board, but i was there for seven years. there are two issues that arise _

years. there are two issues that arise out— years. there are two issues that arise out of— years. there are two issues that arise out of this, about how does trust _ arise out of this, about how does trust applied? 0ne arise out of this, about how does trust applied? one is, can you trust the trust applied? 0ne is, can you trust the bbc_ trust applied? 0ne is, can you trust the bbc to— trust applied? one is, can you trust the bbc to follow up on allegations? you have _ the bbc to follow up on allegations? you have the sun this morning, the eight _ you have the sun this morning, the eight questions we ask the bbc, and they will_ eight questions we ask the bbc, and they will not answer any of them. some _ they will not answer any of them. some of— they will not answer any of them. some of them are quite basic questions. then you have the political— questions. then you have the political angle, questions. then you have the politicalangle, can questions. then you have the political angle, can you expect the bbc to— political angle, can you expect the bbc to he — political angle, can you expect the bbc to be honest with people about what they find? we don't know where this person _ what they find? we don't know where this person works, if it is news or somewhere — this person works, if it is news or somewhere else, so we can't be assuming — somewhere else, so we can't be assuming that they work in news. but we have _ assuming that they work in news. but we have to _ assuming that they work in news. but we have to say that the bbc has worked — we have to say that the bbc has worked incredibly hard in recent times— worked incredibly hard in recent times on— worked incredibly hard in recent times on trying to reinforce its position— times on trying to reinforce its position as the nation's broadcaster of trust _ position as the nation's broadcaster of trust. this does not help. if you were in the _ of trust. this does not help. if you were in the bbc— of trust. this does not help. if you were in the bbc right _ of trust. this does not help. if you were in the bbc right now, - of trust. this does not help. if you were in the bbc right now, what . were in the bbc right now, what would you be doing? how would you be trying to manage what the newspapers will say is a crisis, and many people will agree it is already? first of all, you have to gather round you people that know who they are —— what they are doing, you need

the bosses, you need to remember that every single e—mail you send each other is going to be the subject of review and will be public at some point. so the pressure on the top of the bbc at the moment is enormous, first of all to respond on the day, but also be aware of the long—term issues. we the day, but also be aware of the long-term issues.— the day, but also be aware of the long-term issues. we will talk about that more later. _ long-term issues. we will talk about that more later. rachel— long-term issues. we will talk about that more later. rachel reeves, - long-term issues. we will talk about that more later. rachel reeves, you| that more later. rachel reeves, you are a treasury minister at a difficult time of the credit crunch, is what they are facing now in the treasury and in the labour party worse or easier than what you had to deal with? it’s worse or easier than what you had to dealwith? v , , worse or easier than what you had to dealwith? �*, , , , . deal with? it's pretty difficult, let's ut deal with? it's pretty difficult, let's put it _ deal with? it's pretty difficult, let's put it that _ deal with? it's pretty difficult, let's put it that way. - deal with? it's pretty difficult, let's put it that way. whoever| deal with? it's pretty difficult, i let's put it that way. whoever is going _ let's put it that way. whoever is going to — let's put it that way. whoever is going to he _ let's put it that way. whoever is going to he in— let's put it that way. whoever is going to be in power— let's put it that way. whoever is going to be in power after- let's put it that way. whoever is going to be in power after the l let's put it that way. whoever is i going to be in power after the next generai— going to be in power after the next general election, _ going to be in power after the next general election, they— going to be in power after the next general election, they will - going to be in power after the next general election, they will face - general election, they will face real pressures _ general election, they will face real pressures on _ general election, they will face real pressures on public - general election, they will face i real pressures on public spending. it's real pressures on public spending. it's going — real pressures on public spending. it's going to — real pressures on public spending. it's going to face _ real pressures on public spending. it's going to face borrowing - real pressures on public spending. it's going to face borrowing levelsl it's going to face borrowing levels which _ it's going to face borrowing levels which are — it's going to face borrowing levels which are uncomfortably - it's going to face borrowing levels which are uncomfortably high. - it's going to face borrowing levels i which are uncomfortably high. we've -ot which are uncomfortably high. we've got tax _ which are uncomfortably high. we've got tax rates — which are uncomfortably high. we've got tax rates higher— which are uncomfortably high. we've got tax rates higher than _ which are uncomfortably high. we've got tax rates higher than we - which are uncomfortably high. we've got tax rates higher than we have . got tax rates higher than we have had for— got tax rates higher than we have had for 70 — got tax rates higher than we have had for 70 years. _ got tax rates higher than we have had for 70 years. that _ got tax rates higher than we have had for 70 years. that is - got tax rates higher than we have had for 70 years. that is the - got tax rates higher than we have had for 70 years. that is the sort| had for 70 years. that is the sort of combination— had for 70 years. that is the sort of combination of— had for 70 years. that is the sort of combination of factors - had for 70 years. that is the sort of combination of factors that. had for 70 years. that is the sort| of combination of factors that will be of combination of factors that will he really. — of combination of factors that will he really. really— of combination of factors that will be really, really tough. _ of combination of factors that will be really, really tough. there's . of combination of factors that will be really, really tough. there's a| be really, really tough. there's a sense _ be really, really tough. there's a sense that — be really, really tough. there's a sense that we _ be really, really tough. there's a sense that we are _ be really, really tough. there's a sense that we are not _ be really, really tough. there's a sense that we are not deliveringl sense that we are not delivering economic— sense that we are not delivering economic growth. _ sense that we are not delivering economic growth.— sense that we are not delivering economic growth. pretty grisly. we will talk about _

economic growth. pretty grisly. we will talk about both _ economic growth. pretty grisly. we will talk about both of _ economic growth. pretty grisly. we will talk about both of those - economic growth. pretty grisly. we will talk about both of those issues j will talk about both of those issues in more detail later in the show. through your emails and messages you tell us every week how tough times are when it comes to just making ends meet. for many months, polls have suggested that the public doesn't have much faith at all that the conservatives have the right ideas to change that. but what would labour really do differently, given it shares the desire not to let the nation's debt get out of hand? rachel reeves wants to be labour's woman in number 11 and she's here this morning. great to have you with us, as always. first of all, on the issue of the bbc, what should the bbc do this morning? i do of the bbc, what should the bbc do this morning?— this morning? i do feel that i often come on this _ this morning? i do feel that i often come on this programme - this morning? i do feel that i often come on this programme and - this morning? i do feel that i often come on this programme and we i this morning? i do feel that i often - come on this programme and we almost start with another crisis at the bbc. the bbc do need to speed up their processes. it looks like these issues were raised in may, we are now injuly on the presenter stayed on air. that is not good enough. the bbc needs to get their house in order, and give greater clarity to what on earth has gone on in this

case, and what they are doing to try to put it right. lets case, and what they are doing to try to put it right-— to put it right. lets talk about the 'ob ou to put it right. lets talk about the job you want _ to put it right. lets talk about the job you want to — to put it right. lets talk about the job you want to do. _ to put it right. lets talk about the job you want to do. this - to put it right. lets talk about the job you want to do. this morning | to put it right. lets talk about the i job you want to do. this morning you are talking about housing. if you become chancellor, will you spend taxpayer money on building houses? this isn't about spending taxpayer money, this is about unlocking the planning system, it's about offering some form of guarantor for people who are struggling to save a deposit, but can afford the monthly mortgage repayments. this government have blown it when it comes to home ownership. homeownership is now falling under a conservative government. it is clear that it is only labour now that can help people fulfil their dreams of owning their home, because it is only labour that will get a builder building again, in a way that we need to build those homes for people.— homes for people. there are 1.2 million people _ homes for people. there are 1.2 million people in _ homes for people. there are 1.2 million people in social - homes for people. there are 1.2 million people in social housing| million people in social housing waiting lists right now. if you are not going to spend taxpayer money on getting houses built, how are the things you're talking about really

going to make a difference to that? if you look at homeownership levels, they were once as high under the last labour government a 70%, 70% of people owning their own home. that has fallen to 64%. that people owning their own home. that has fallen to 6496.— has fallen to 6496. that is not my cuestion, has fallen to 6496. that is not my question. if— has fallen to 6496. that is not my question, if you're _ has fallen to 6496. that is not my question, if you're not _ has fallen to 6496. that is not my question, if you're not going - has fallen to 6496. that is not my question, if you're not going to i question, if you're not going to spend taxpayer money building houses, you have been clear about that, how can you guarantee to our viewers that there will be more homes to rent and buy? because builders want _ homes to rent and buy? because builders want to _ homes to rent and buy? because builders want to build, _ homes to rent and buy? because builders want to build, it - homes to rent and buy? because builders want to build, it is - homes to rent and buy? because builders want to build, it is just l builders want to build, it is just the planning system mitigates against that. the government got rid of the planning targets. local authorities have no obligation, no targets to build new homes. as a result, those homes aren't getting built. this has a real economic impact as well. if house—building falls in the way that is now expected, that is a £44 billion hit to the uk economy every single year. and many businesses as well say that they struggle to recruit people because people can't afford to live in the places where the jobs are being generated.

in the places where the 'obs are being generatedh in the places where the 'obs are being generated. everybody knows it is important- — being generated. everybody knows it is important- is _ being generated. everybody knows it is important. is incredibly _ is important. is incredibly important _ is important. is incredibly important that _ is important. is incredibly important that builders i is important. is incredibly i important that builders can is important. is incredibly - important that builders can build. but successive conservative government have said they will unblock the planning system, that is what we need to do, except that many experts in this sector think unless you're going to do something much bolder and bigger, something like perhaps spending taxpayer money to get things built, it's not going to make much difference. that get things built, it's not going to make much difference.— get things built, it's not going to make much difference. that is not what house-builders _ make much difference. that is not what house-builders are - make much difference. that is not what house-builders are saying, l make much difference. that is not. what house-builders are saying, they what house—builders are saying, they are not saying they need government money. what they are saying is that they want planning targets back, and they want planning targets back, and they want planning targets back, and they want the planning system unblocked. that is what labour offers in contrast to the conservatives.- offers in contrast to the conservatives. �* ., ., , conservatives. but do you really think ou conservatives. but do you really think you can — conservatives. but do you really think you can tell _ conservatives. but do you really think you can tell our _ conservatives. but do you really think you can tell our viewers i conservatives. but do you really i think you can tell our viewers that there is much difference to what you are saying? the conservative say they will work around the planning system. you say you are going to work around the planning system. the work around the planning system. tia: government is not saying that, rishi sunak caved in to his backbenchers at christmas last year, three days before christmas, caved in and said, you know what, we'lljust end these planning targets. so they are not

even trying. they've given up, they blown it. but even trying. they've given up, they blown it. �* , ., even trying. they've given up, they blown it. �* ., ., blown it. but you are confident that tinkerin: blown it. but you are confident that tinkering with _ blown it. but you are confident that tinkering with the _ blown it. but you are confident that tinkering with the planning - blown it. but you are confident that tinkering with the planning system| tinkering with the planning system will make a big difference to putting a roof over peoples heads? that is what builders are saying to us, unblock the system and we will build the homes, then young people and families who dream of homeownership will be able to fulfil that dream again. let me also say this, there are people that have managed to get on the housing ladder who are now seeing their dreams turning into nightmares because of the tory mortgage bombshell. but ou're not the tory mortgage bombshell. but you're not proposing giving their money to help. you're not proposing giving their money to help-— you're not proposing giving their money to help. you're not proposing giving their mone to hel, . ., ., , money to help. what we have said is that the scheme _ money to help. what we have said is that the scheme for _ money to help. what we have said is that the scheme for lenders - money to help. what we have said is that the scheme for lenders has - money to help. what we have said is that the scheme for lenders has got | that the scheme for lenders has got to be mandatory. at the moment, people are falling through the cracks because their lenders are not signing up. cracks because their lenders are not siuanin u. j cracks because their lenders are not siuanin u. .,�* ., cracks because their lenders are not silt-ninu. ., ., signing up. you're not proposing to live them signing up. you're not proposing to give them taxpayer _ signing up. you're not proposing to give them taxpayer cash. _ signing up. you're not proposing to give them taxpayer cash. the - give them taxpayer cash. the democrats are.— give them taxpayer cash. the democrats are. . .,~ , ., , , democrats are. that makes no sense at all. we democrats are. that makes no sense at all- we are — democrats are. that makes no sense at all. we are in _ democrats are. that makes no sense at all. we are in a _ democrats are. that makes no sense at all. we are in a high _ democrats are. that makes no sense at all. we are in a high inflation - at all. we are in a high inflation environment, and just an untargeted giveaway to people makes no sense at all. this is about practical things to keep people who are struggling in

their homes, and that is what labour's scheme would do. lets talk about one of — labour's scheme would do. lets talk about one of the _ labour's scheme would do. lets talk about one of the other— labour's scheme would do. lets talk about one of the other big _ labour's scheme would do. lets talk about one of the other big areas - labour's scheme would do. lets talk about one of the other big areas youj about one of the other big areas you really care about. last time you came on this programme you said you would be spending £28 billion per year on green projects. you said it was crucial, and you said it needed urgency. since you came on last, that has now been delayed. are you 100% committed to reaching that level of spending, £28 billion per year, by the end of the first parliament if you win the election? i can't overstate the damage the conservatives have done to the economy. but i'm not going to apologise for making sure that our sums add up. since i first announced labour's green prosperity plans, inflation is now 8.7%, this seems to be stuck there, it seems to be there for the last two months, i've been clear that all of our policies, including investing in the industries of the future on boosting energy security are subject to

fiscal rules. that means paying for day—to—day spending through tax receipts and getting debt down as a share of our economy. white marker that explains the delay, but are you committed to spending £28 billion by the end of your first parliament if you win the election? we are confident we can get there. but are ou confident we can get there. but are you committed _ confident we can get there. but are you committed to _ confident we can get there. but are you committed to it? _ confident we can get there. but are you committed to it? we _ confident we can get there. but are you committed to it? we are - you committed to it? we are committed — you committed to it? we are committed to _ you committed to it? we are committed to it, _ you committed to it? we are committed to it, subject - you committed to it? we are committed to it, subject to i you committed to it? we are i committed to it, subject to our fiscal rules. that's really important to say that. your limits on spending. _ important to say that. your limits on spending, that _ important to say that. your limits on spending, that jargon? - important to say that. your limits on spending, that jargon? you i important to say that. your limits | on spending, that jargon? you pay on spending, that “argon? you pay for day-to-day — on spending, that jargon? you pay for day-to-day spending _ on spending, that jargon? you pay for day-to-day spending through i on spending, that jargon? you pay. for day-to-day spending through tax for day—to—day spending through tax receipts. david gauke made a good point, debt has tripled under the conservatives, it's the same size as our whole economy. we have to get a grip of that and all our plans will be consistent with the fiscal rules. the spending limits so you only borrow for big, long—term project at everything else is accounted for day—to—day. that is clearly, from what you have just said, at the very top of your list. 0ther what you have just said, at the very

top of your list. other things will have to wait? bill top of your list. other things will have to wait?— top of your list. other things will have to wait? all our plans will be built on a rock _ have to wait? all our plans will be built on a rock of _ have to wait? all our plans will be built on a rock of economic- have to wait? all our plans will be built on a rock of economic and i built on a rock of economic and fiscal responsibility. labour will not play fast and loose with public finances because the people who pay the price for that are the people who own their own homes, who wish to own their own homes, people running small businesses, who have been terribly affected by the turbulence in the economy, the increases in mortgage rates, the increases in prices in the shops, and we will never put family finances at risk in the way the conservatives have. does not mean that — the way the conservatives have. does not mean that your _ the way the conservatives have. does not mean that your £28 _ the way the conservatives have. does not mean that your £28 billion target, which i know you care about very deeply, that could still be vulnerable, that could be ditched if the numbers don't work? ii gee vulnerable, that could be ditched if the numbers don't work? if we look at the numbers _ the numbers don't work? if we look at the numbers in _ the numbers don't work? if we look at the numbers in the _ the numbers don't work? if we look at the numbers in the most - the numbers don't work? if we look at the numbers in the most recent. at the numbers in the most recent government forecasts, we can get to the total investment of £28 billion per year. the government are spending money themselves. you are not committing _ spending money themselves. you are not committing to _ spending money themselves. you are not committing to it? _ spending money themselves. you are not committing to it? everything - not committing to it? everything sub'ect to not committing to it? everything subject to the — not committing to it? everything subject to the fiscal _ not committing to it? everything subject to the fiscal rules. - not committing to it? everything subject to the fiscal rules. but i not committing to it? everything | subject to the fiscal rules. but the numbers we see currently, i'm confident that we can get there, but

the fiscal rules are non—negotiable, and we will never play fast and loose with public finances. the last time we had a government that said fiscal rules were at the top of the list, the way they dealt with that was to introduce austerity. you have said austerity starved the economy of investment and austerity failed. listening to you today, if spending limits, those fiscal rules are at the top of your list, but might make the same mistake? ., , , ., ,, mistake? no, this is nothing like what the conservatives _ mistake? no, this is nothing like what the conservatives did. - mistake? no, this is nothing like what the conservatives did. it. mistake? no, this is nothing like what the conservatives did. it is| what the conservatives did. it is why for example the borrowing to invest is different from borrowing to pay for day—to—day spending. investing in assets that can grow our economy is essential to break out of this doom loop of low growth. you said you can't afford to. isn't it the case, you're proud of being

disciplined on this, that discipline means going into the election, it is very likely that labour and the conservatives will basically be following the same tramlines on spending. i following the same tramlines on sendina. ., �* following the same tramlines on sendina. .,�* , ., spending. i don't accept that. if ou look spending. i don't accept that. if you look at— spending. i don't accept that. if you look at what _ spending. i don't accept that. if you look at what we _ spending. i don't accept that. if you look at what we have - spending. i don't accept that. if you look at what we have said i spending. i don't accept that. if - you look at what we have said about taxation of non—domes, if you make your home in britain you should pay your home in britain you should pay your tax here. you your home in britain you should pay your tax here-— your tax here. you know that is a small amount _ your tax here. you know that is a small amount of _ your tax here. you know that is a small amount of cash _ your tax here. you know that is a small amount of cash in - your tax here. you know that is a small amount of cash in the - your tax here. you know that is a small amount of cash in the over| your tax here. you know that is a i small amount of cash in the over all thing. i small amount of cash in the over all thin. ., �* ~' small amount of cash in the over all thing. i don't think £15 billion a ear is thing. i don't think £15 billion a year is marginal. _ thing. i don't think £15 billion a year is marginal. we _ thing. i don't think £15 billion a year is marginal. we would - thing. i don't think £15 billion a year is marginal. we would use| thing. i don't think £15 billion a - year is marginal. we would use that to invest in one of the biggest workforce expansions nhs. steve barclay said he had an nhs workforce plan, but he had no idea how it would be funded. we will fund it through that non—dom tax plans. i explain how our sums add up and i

close loopholes and use them for the priorities that we see the priorities that we see the priorities for the country. share priorities that we see the priorities for the country. are you dis - utin: priorities for the country. are you disputing a _ priorities for the country. are you disputing a report _ priorities for the country. are you disputing a report that _ priorities for the country. are you disputing a report that basically i disputing a report that basically you're spending plans on the same track as the conservatives? ila i track as the conservatives? no i have given _ track as the conservatives? no i have given you _ track as the conservatives? no i have given you one _ track as the conservatives? th? i have given you one example. i'm committed to fiscal discipline and i've no desire to see the tax burden increased. but it must be built on the rock of economic and fiscal stability, because if you put that at peril, you see what's happened in our economy these last few months with sky high interest rates and inflation that is very difficult to get under control. the inflation that is very difficult to get under control. the election may be a lona get under control. the election may be a long time _ get under control. the election may be a long time away, _ get under control. the election may be a long time away, but _ get under control. the election may be a long time away, but labour- get under control. the election may| be a long time away, but labour has beenin be a long time away, but labour has been in the polls way ahead for many months. and it is interesting some surveys have suggested you're starting to get the recognition of

somebody who is likely to be the next chancellor. you have built your argument today on being tough on spending and strict, do you think you will be a radical chancellor? is that what you would want to be? i want to be the chancellor that grows the economy and gives this country hope and its future back. i see huge potential, businesses with great ideas, universities with fantastic young people, with ideas to start new businesses and grow their businesses. family and young people who are excited about the future. but what we don't have is a government that matches that scale of ambition. it is why the plans we have set out, including the green prosperity plan to invest in gb energy, a publicly owned energy company, our modern industrial strategy, our plans to make britain the best place to start a business, this can transform the economy and build the security we need for

family finances is anti—inflationary and can help get bills down and bring to britain the jobs for the future. you havejohn kerry on the programme. in the us they are seizing these opportunities to grow the economy and other countries are stealing a march on britain. idot stealing a march on britain. not eve one stealing a march on britain. not everyone may — stealing a march on britain. not everyone may know this, but you were a champion chess player as a child, politics is sometimes talked of as a chess game, where do you think you have the conservatives, are you at check mate? idate have the conservatives, are you at check mate?— check mate? we are a rook ahead after about _ check mate? we are a rook ahead after about 30 _ check mate? we are a rook ahead after about 30 moves, _ check mate? we are a rook ahead after about 30 moves, but - check mate? we are a rook ahead after about 30 moves, but we - check mate? we are a rook ahead after about 30 moves, but we are j after about 30 moves, but we are playing an opponent who usually beats us. so it is not in the bag, but we are determined to offer to the country hope and the reassurance that our sums add up and we can make the change that our country needs. aha, the change that our country needs. a rook ahead, i will have to look that

up. thank you. what do you think? let us know email us at kuenssberg@bbc.co.uk or on social use the hashtag #bbclaurak and we'll try and share some of of the converation later in the show. the conversation later in the show. the headlines are on the bbc live page as it unfolds, the address is there for you now. if labour wanted evidence to back up its focus on climate there's plenty around. last week the temperature right around the world broke records. the general secretary of the united nations, antonio guterres said this. the situation we are witnessing now is the demonstration that climate change is out of control. john kerry, former us secretary of state is nowjoe biden's special climate envoy and i'm pleased to say he's landed, just before president biden — welcome. it is yourjob tho persuade people

to do more, but the numbers suggest it is not working. i to do more, but the numbers suggest it is not working.— it is not working. i disagree, around the _ it is not working. i disagree, around the world _ it is not working. i disagree, around the world people - it is not working. i disagree, around the world people arej around the world people are captivated by the crisis and concerned by it. a 66—year—old gentleman going out in the middle of the wimbledon court and willing to be arrested. if you listen to the scientists, the last week they have described as terrifying, and as uncharted territory. when you see the risks of what is happening with global ice melt and challenges of fires and mud slides and heat, people dieing from the level of heat, the quality of air, people are dying around the world in the millions, about eight million a year die from that and it comes from one thing. it is not complicated. it is the way we have chosen to propel our vehicles, heat our homes, light our

factories and businesses, it is power, burning fossilfuel factories and businesses, it is power, burning fossil fuel without capturing the emissions. we have two choices. you capture the emissions or you don't create them in the first place and that is the challenge that we face now. ii first place and that is the challenge that we face now. if you think though _ challenge that we face now. if you think though of _ challenge that we face now. if you think though of what's _ challenge that we face now. if you think though of what's happening in countries like china, where coal mine production is still going up, india, countries that sometimes talk a good game, at big international gathers, the numbers are still going the wrong way. why are you failing to persuade people to take action? persuading people.— to persuade people to take action? j persuading people._ china to persuade people to take action? i persuading people._ china is persuading people. leaders? china is acount . persuading people. leaders? china is a country- a — persuading people. leaders? china is a country- a huge _ persuading people. leaders? china is a country. a huge country. _ persuading people. leaders? china is a country. a huge country. it - persuading people. leaders? china is a country. a huge country. it is - persuading people. leaders? china is a country. a huge country. it is the i a country. a huge country. it is the largest emitter in the world. we need china to co—operate and we need to co—operate with china. people are sort of in this stand off that we can't afford to be. why president biden hasjust had the can't afford to be. why president biden has just had the treasury secretary in china talking about economics and climate. and there will be other visits. what we are

trying to do is change the dynamic between our nations. we are the two largest economies in the world, we are the two largest emitters of greenhouse gas emissions. we need to work together in a co—operative way, i believe the chinese are now talking about it, thinking about how we can do that. we need that. president biden is deeply committed to this endeavour. tomorrow we are hosting, we grant shapps, the secretary of energy security, and net zero, and i are hosting an event with philanthropists and we will brief president biden and his majesty king charles after about how we can accelerate the deployment of trillions of dollars, because investment will accelerate this.

what about the uk, i know you take a close interest about the king's interest in climate change, but the uk until recently used to boast it was a leader on climate change. and yet recently its own independent adjudicator said now the uk was missing targets. are you disappointed that the uk seems to have softened its eagerness? brute disappointed that the uk seems to have softened its eagerness? we have a challenae have softened its eagerness? we have a challenge globally, _ have softened its eagerness? we have a challenge globally, including - have softened its eagerness? we have a challenge globally, including in - a challenge globally, including in the united states, to get people to move faster. were doing, president biden is trying everything possible, including the inflation policy that has raised hackles in europe. we are trying to excite the private sector to move faster. idistill trying to excite the private sector to move faster.— trying to excite the private sector to move faster. will you tell the uk to move faster. will you tell the uk to move faster. will you tell the uk to move faster? _ to move faster. will you tell the uk to move faster? we _ to move faster. will you tell the uk to move faster? we are _ to move faster. will you tell the uk to move faster? we are not - to move faster. will you tell the uk to move faster? we are not going i to move faster. will you tell the uk | to move faster? we are not going to tell --eole to move faster? we are not going to tell people things. _ to move faster? we are not going to tell people things. that _ to move faster? we are not going to tell people things. that is _ to move faster? we are not going to tell people things. that is kind - to move faster? we are not going to tell people things. that is kind of. tell people things. that is kind of diplomacy that doesn't work. president biden looks forward to having conversations and he will meet the prime minister and i'm sure

climate be a component of that conversation. because it has to be. if we don't do this, the disruption to all investment, the disruption to supply chains, the movement in migration of tens of millions of people, if you have food production imploding in africa, orthe people, if you have food production imploding in africa, or the heat that we are now seeing in parts of world, people can't work outdoors in that heat. we are seeing already in every aspect of life it is now being affected by the climate crisis. but again i say, this is not something where everybody says oh, my god, i don't want to do this, because it is scary, we will have a better quality of life. if you clean up the air, there will be less people getting cancer, less people with heart disease being affected. you will have incredible health benefits. you will have food production and security benefits. you will have obviously the quality of air and

climate, but equally important our economies will flourish. we are seeing unbelievable growth injobs. unbelievable movement in the job market. moving towards these new jobs, the fastest growing job in america was wind turbine technician. third fastest solar panels. fine america was wind turbine technician. third fastest solar panels.— third fastest solar panels. one area where we have _ third fastest solar panels. one area where we have seen _ third fastest solar panels. one area where we have seen the _ third fastest solar panels. one area j where we have seen the importance third fastest solar panels. one area i where we have seen the importance of energy and prices of course is what has been happening in the ukraine and this week, president biden announced the us would send cluster bombs to ukraine. you had expressed concern about the impact those weapons can have on civilians. aren't you worried about their use in this conflict? i aren't you worried about their use in this conflict?— in this conflict? i think everybody's _ in this conflict? i think everybody's always - in this conflict? i think i everybody's always going to in this conflict? i think - everybody's always going to be worried about how something is used and i know the president has described it as a very difficult decision. and he is putting

constraints on how that can be used. that is not my daily work now. i'm trying to build consensus around climate and i'm not getting involved in the political issues. d0 climate and i'm not getting involved in the political issues.— in the political issues. do you wish ou would in the political issues. do you wish you would say _ in the political issues. do you wish you would say say _ in the political issues. do you wish you would say say something? i in the political issues. do you wish you would say say something? no | in the political issues. do you wish i you would say say something? no i'm comfortable — you would say say something? no i'm comfortable concentrating _ you would say say something? no i'm comfortable concentrating on - you would say say something? no i'm comfortable concentrating on this. i i comfortable concentrating on this. i came from vienna, where i spoke to the osce, the european security group, there is a genuine focus on climate as a security issue. in every respect, health, food, economies, national security. every respect, health, food, economies, nationalsecurity. it economies, national security. it touches everything of course. john kerry a privilege to have you here. it will be interesting to see what happens when president biden arrives. you you can follow mr biden's visit across the bbc

through the day of course, but let's find out what david, stewart and alison reckoned to all of that, and remember, let us know what's on your mind too. david, rachel made the case that labour will be different, but some of the things she said about fiscal discipline do remind me of the things you and your colleagues used to say ten years ago. i'm sure she wouldn't thank me for saying that, that pride she has in talking about discipline? very true, there is a contradiction there, no getting away from it. i think she is right in terms of policy and the politics to send a clear signal that a labour government with here as chancellor would be cautious on public spending. the conservatives always want to attack labour for being profligate, for being prepared to run up more borrowing, and so she is trying to address that vulnerability and has made huge progress politically in doing that. but you are still left with the question, well, how are things going to be different, and how are they going to

get the economy to grow? she is placing a lot of weight on planning reform, and i think my former colleagues at the conservatives have given them an opportunity there, because they have dropped the national targets. because they have dropped the nationaltargets. but because they have dropped the national targets. but there's not that much else coming from labour, explaining why things are going to be different. explaining why things are going to be different-— explaining why things are going to be different. ~ ~ ., ., , be different. alison, mirror readers tend to be on _ be different. alison, mirror readers tend to be on the _ be different. alison, mirror readers tend to be on the left, _ be different. alison, mirror readers tend to be on the left, will - be different. alison, mirror readers tend to be on the left, will they i tend to be on the left, will they have heard things that will excite them and make them want to go to the ballot box? ~ . ., , , them and make them want to go to the ballot box? ~ . . , , ., ballot box? what i have seen is a very sensible _ ballot box? what i have seen is a very sensible woman _ ballot box? what i have seen is a very sensible woman who - ballot box? what i have seen is a very sensible woman who will i ballot box? what i have seen is a very sensible woman who will be | ballot box? what i have seen is a i very sensible woman who will be in charge _ very sensible woman who will be in charge of— very sensible woman who will be in charge of the finances, there's a lotto _ charge of the finances, there's a lotto be — charge of the finances, there's a lot to be said about that. she will not lend — lot to be said about that. she will not lend you a fiver if it would have — not lend you a fiver if it would have an — not lend you a fiver if it would have an effect on the working tax burden — have an effect on the working tax burden. that's an important plank to -et burden. that's an important plank to get down _ burden. that's an important plank to get down there. at the entry came to the point _ get down there. at the entry came to the point about hope, that is where excitement— the point about hope, that is where excitement comes, excitement and hope _ excitement comes, excitement and hope and — excitement comes, excitement and hope. and often they come with a price _ hope. and often they come with a price tag — hope. and often they come with a price tag. even when you are trying to push— price tag. even when you are trying to push her— price tag. even when you are trying to push her own the green commitments, will we see them towards — commitments, will we see them towards the end of parliament, there

is a big _ towards the end of parliament, there is a big price tag on those. what you have — is a big price tag on those. what you have got to hope, what labour have _ you have got to hope, what labour have to _ you have got to hope, what labour have to hope, is that people have been _ have to hope, is that people have been patient for a couple of years, when _ been patient for a couple of years, when they— been patient for a couple of years, when they get things back in order, then they— when they get things back in order, then they started to see the fruits of hope _ then they started to see the fruits of hope and excitement. it interesting, it casts a certain canvas for the next election. everything could change, but it doesn't look like we will be in a traditional site where one party are saying we will spend all of money on this and milk and honey will flow out of the taps, the other party are saying that is terrible, they will waste it all, it might be quite a constrained affair. i waste it all, it might be quite a constrained affair.— constrained affair. i think both sides are quite _ constrained affair. i think both sides are quite offensive, i constrained affair. i think both. sides are quite offensive, partly because — sides are quite offensive, partly because that _ sides are quite offensive, partly because that is _ sides are quite offensive, partly because that is where _ sides are quite offensive, partly because that is where the - sides are quite offensive, partly- because that is where the economic conditions _ because that is where the economic conditions are, _ because that is where the economic conditions are, that _ because that is where the economic conditions are, that is _ because that is where the economic conditions are, that is the - conditions are, that is the situation _ conditions are, that is the situation. although- conditions are, that is the situation. although you i conditions are, that is the i situation. although you can conditions are, that is the - situation. although you can make a comparison — situation. although you can make a comparison with _ situation. although you can make a comparison with 1997, _ situation. although you can make a comparison with 1997, when - situation. although you can make a comparison with 1997, when tony i comparison with 1997, when tony blair— comparison with 1997, when tony blair and — comparison with 1997, when tony blair and gordon— comparison with 1997, when tony blair and gordon brown— comparison with 1997, when tony blair and gordon brown said i comparison with 1997, when tony blair and gordon brown said we i comparison with 1997, when tony i blair and gordon brown said we are going _ blair and gordon brown said we are going to _ blair and gordon brown said we are going to stick — blair and gordon brown said we are going to stick to _ blair and gordon brown said we are going to stick to the _ blair and gordon brown said we are going to stick to the conservative i going to stick to the conservative spending — going to stick to the conservative spending plans, _ going to stick to the conservative spending plans, providing- going to stick to the conservative spending plans, providing a i going to stick to the conservative spending plans, providing a lot . going to stick to the conservative| spending plans, providing a lot of reassurance, _ spending plans, providing a lot of reassurance, essentially- spending plans, providing a lot of reassurance, essentially the - spending plans, providing a lot of- reassurance, essentially the economy was strong, _ reassurance, essentially the economy was strong, and — reassurance, essentially the economy was strong, and the _ reassurance, essentially the economy was strong, and the public— reassurance, essentially the economy was strong, and the public finances . was strong, and the public finances were in_ was strong, and the public finances were in a _ was strong, and the public finances were in a very— was strong, and the public finances were in a very sound _ was strong, and the public finances were in a very sound footing. - was strong, and the public finances were in a very sound footing. it's i were in a very sound footing. it's not going — were in a very sound footing. it's not going to _ were in a very sound footing. it's not going to be _ were in a very sound footing. it's not going to be the _ were in a very sound footing. it's not going to be the case - were in a very sound footing. it's not going to be the case this- were in a very sound footing. it's i not going to be the case this time. accept— not going to be the case this time. accept there —

not going to be the case this time. accept there are _ not going to be the case this time. accept there are economists - not going to be the case this time. accept there are economists and l accept there are economists and politicians on the left of the labour party, and on the right of the conservative party, they would say all of this centrist stuff in the middle where everybody says let's be careful, it's not going to match the scale of the challenge. i match the scale of the challenge. i think a centrist answer might be one of the _ think a centrist answer might be one of the impediments _ think a centrist answer might be one of the impediments the _ think a centrist answer might be one of the impediments the uk - think a centrist answer might be one of the impediments the uk economy has, that— of the impediments the uk economy has, that it — of the impediments the uk economy has, that it is — of the impediments the uk economy has, that it is much _ of the impediments the uk economy has, that it is much harder— of the impediments the uk economy has, that it is much harder to - of the impediments the uk economy has, that it is much harder to trade. has, that it is much harder to trade with our— has, that it is much harder to trade with our biggest _ has, that it is much harder to trade with our biggest market, _ has, that it is much harder to trade with our biggest market, than - has, that it is much harder to trade with our biggest market, than was| with our biggest market, than was the case _ with our biggest market, than was the case untit— with our biggest market, than was the case until very— with our biggest market, than was the case until very recently. - with our biggest market, than was the case until very recently. and l with our biggest market, than was the case until very recently. and if labour— the case until very recently. and if labour reatty — the case until very recently. and if labour really want _ the case until very recently. and if labour really want to _ the case until very recently. and if labour really want to have - the case until very recently. and if labour really want to have a - labour really want to have a compelling _ labour really want to have a compelling economic- labour really want to have a i compelling economic narrative, labour really want to have a - compelling economic narrative, they could _ compelling economic narrative, they could be _ compelling economic narrative, they could be bolder— compelling economic narrative, they could be bolder on— compelling economic narrative, they could be bolder on brexit _ compelling economic narrative, they could be bolder on brexit than - compelling economic narrative, they could be bolder on brexit than they. could be bolder on brexit than they have treeh— could be bolder on brexit than they have been until— could be bolder on brexit than they have been until now. _ could be bolder on brexit than they have been until now. find - could be bolder on brexit than they have been until now.— could be bolder on brexit than they have been until now. and they don't want to talk — have been until now. and they don't want to talk about _ have been until now. and they don't want to talk about that. _ have been until now. and they don't want to talk about that. we - have been until now. and they don't want to talk about that. we had - want to talk about that. we had eo - le want to talk about that. we had peeple being — want to talk about that. we had people being promised - want to talk about that. we had people being promised milk- want to talk about that. we had | people being promised milk and want to talk about that. we had - people being promised milk and honey from people in charge, and people want someone they can trust. interesting, john kerry talking about civil disobedience and climate. i want to show a refined form of civil disobedience, somebody at the wedding of the former chancellor george osborne yesterday, throwing orange confetti over him and his new wife. david, do you think the conservatives are missing a trick on climate by appearing less

committed than they were under boris johnson? j committed than they were under boris johnson? ~ . committed than they were under boris johnson? ,, . . , , . , johnson? i think that has been a bit of a shift there. _ johnson? i think that has been a bit of a shift there. not _ johnson? i think that has been a bit of a shift there. not necessarily - johnson? i think that has been a bit of a shift there. not necessarily in l of a shift there. not necessarily in a good way, either. i do think that on things like onshore wind, for example, that should be a very easy win, it is a popular policy to allow onshore wind turbines. and yet government is not embracing that. it government is not embracing that. it is not popular with tory members. i know, i think they are on the wrong side of the argument there and they should shift. i side of the argument there and they should shift-— should shift. i have to ask if you were invited _ should shift. i have to ask if you were invited to _ should shift. i have to ask if you were invited to the _ should shift. i have to ask if you were invited to the wedding, - should shift. i have to ask if you were invited to the wedding, it | were invited to the wedding, it looks like the political event of the year? looks like the political event of the ear? , ., looks like the political event of the year?_ i - looks like the political event of the year?_ i didn't i looks like the political event of. the year?_ i didn't mean the year? sadly not. i didn't mean to intrude- — the year? sadly not. i didn't mean to intrude. stewart, _ the year? sadly not. i didn't mean to intrude. stewart, let's- the year? sadly not. i didn't mean to intrude. stewart, let's talk- to intrude. stewart, let's talk about the bbc. rachel reeves said, basically, get on with it, why is it taking so long?— taking so long? that is the basic cuestion. taking so long? that is the basic question- we — taking so long? that is the basic question. we know _ taking so long? that is the basic question. we know the - taking so long? that is the basic question. we know the parents. taking so long? that is the basic. question. we know the parents of taking so long? that is the basic - question. we know the parents of the teenager— question. we know the parents of the teenager contacted the bbc, she says. _ teenager contacted the bbc, she says. on— teenager contacted the bbc, she says, on may the 19th. the sun says this morning —

says, on may the 19th. the sun says this morning at the bbc investigator met the _ this morning at the bbc investigator met the parent on friday evening a document— met the parent on friday evening a document were handed over. if that is true, _ document were handed over. if that is true, that— document were handed over. if that is true, that a very long time to have _ is true, that a very long time to have sat — is true, that a very long time to have sat down. if this money was being _ have sat down. if this money was being transferred from the presenter's bank account to this young _ presenter's bank account to this young person, go straight to the trank— young person, go straight to the bank account. it should not take too tom} _ bank account. it should not take too tom} what — bank account. it should not take too long. what is the bbc's appetite for getting _ long. what is the bbc's appetite for getting to _ long. what is the bbc's appetite for getting to the truth, and what were the specifics? no getting to the truth, and what were the specifics?— getting to the truth, and what were the specifics? no doubt we will have olitical the specifics? no doubt we will have political debate _ the specifics? no doubt we will have political debate around _ the specifics? no doubt we will have political debate around this, - the specifics? no doubt we will have political debate around this, some i political debate around this, some mps have been on social media giving their views, mps have been on social media giving theirviews, priti mps have been on social media giving their views, priti patel, former home secretary, said the bbc response has been derisory. the bbc has become a faceless and unaccountable organisation. the former culture secretary nadine dorries said there should be no place to hide for broadcasters who attempt to cover—up the of behaviour. and the former chair of the culture committee in parliament has given a statement and said it is vital that tv companies have in

place the right systems. there is pressure on the bbc now to answer some questions. stewart, in the panoply of crises, rachel said she quite often get asked about the bbc in crisis, at this early stage, do you have a sense of how messy this could get? you have a sense of how messy this could let? ,., . , ~' could get? personally, i think the criticism you _ could get? personally, i think the criticism you raised _ could get? personally, i think the criticism you raised there - could get? personally, i think the criticism you raised there were i criticism you raised there were unjustified at this point, because, actually, the bbc has not expired itself. the question is, why hasn't itself. the question is, why hasn't it explained itself? one, comet is worried about the legal issues of any details that might lead to identity, ora any details that might lead to identity, or a potential offence. any details that might lead to identity, ora potential offence. it is trying to get through the process. the problem is, it looks evasive. it doesn't look transparent. the state that they issued yesterday, to me, it was almost pointing to the parent as the problem. it was sort of implying that the parent had not actually told them what they needed to know. the answer was, well, how quickly did you respond? cast your mind back

to 2012, thejimmy savile affair, 2016, the damejanet smith review, it listed five failings and said the bbc must improve on when these kind of allegations are made. i'd intrigued to know when this dies down whether the bbc followed the things it would do back in 2016. allison, briefly?— things it would do back in 2016. allison, briefly? when a complaint like this comes _ allison, briefly? when a complaint like this comes in, _ allison, briefly? when a complaint like this comes in, defer _ allison, briefly? when a complaint like this comes in, defer starting l like this comes in, defer starting point _ like this comes in, defer starting point is — like this comes in, defer starting point is that it has to be dealt with— point is that it has to be dealt with immediately. this is going to become _ with immediately. this is going to become public at some point, so we need _ become public at some point, so we need to— become public at some point, so we need to be _ become public at some point, so we need to be on the front foot with it. need to be on the front foot with it the _ need to be on the front foot with it the idea — need to be on the front foot with it. the idea we tried to engage with the family— it. the idea we tried to engage with the family and didn't hear back, that is— the family and didn't hear back, that is really poor, every moment of every— that is really poor, every moment of every day, _ that is really poor, every moment of every day, you have to be trying to create _ every day, you have to be trying to create a _ every day, you have to be trying to create a case to find out what is going _ create a case to find out what is going 0h — create a case to find out what is going on. that is where i think that abc has _ going on. that is where i think that abc has let— going on. that is where i think that abc has let itself down. we going on. that is where i think that abc has let itself down.— abc has let itself down. we should em - hasise abc has let itself down. we should emphasise there _ abc has let itself down. we should emphasise there is _ abc has let itself down. we should emphasise there is a _ abc has let itself down. we should emphasise there is a limit - abc has let itself down. we should emphasise there is a limit to - abc has let itself down. we should emphasise there is a limit to what| emphasise there is a limit to what we know and legal constraints around this debate. thank you for sharing your views. just as the country's balance sheet means labour doesn't want to be as generous as many of its mps,

and maybe voters might like with cash for public spending, the tories can't be as certain about those tax cuts they would love to promise and, have been dangling for a while. yesterday in fact the chancellor more or less said you can forget it. at least in the medium term. victoria atkins is one of his team, the finanical secretary, and she is with us for the first time today. welcome. the story dominating today as the bbc. briefly, what do you think the bbc. briefly, what do you think the bbc should do?— bbc should do? these are very serious allegations _ bbc should do? these are very serious allegations and - bbc should do? these are very serious allegations and the - bbc should do? these are very| serious allegations and the bbc needs to act swiftly, it needs to follow its procedure is that it says it has in place. i am a former ministerfor it has in place. i am a former minister for safeguarding and it has in place. i am a former ministerfor safeguarding and i minister for safeguarding and i worked ministerfor safeguarding and i worked for 20 years in the criminal justice system, and in all of this, and in our conversations about it, we have to remember that there is a person, a young person at the centre of this who will be feeling all sorts of emotions and will be feeling possibly very distressed. so we do need to keep that person in our minds as we discuss this. and our minds as we discuss this. and everybody — our minds as we discuss this. and everybody should take care in these

discussions, of course. let's talk about yourjob as discussions, of course. let's talk about your job as financial secretary to the treasury. we know the government market was committed to keeping a lid on pay. the government makos said that it would adhere to the regulations of independent pay bodies, whose job adhere to the regulations of independent pay bodies, whosejob it is to set pay. if they recommend increasing pay for public sector workers by 6%, as we expect, will workers by 6%, as we expect, will workers get it? the workers by 6%, as we expect, will workers aet it? u. . ., , workers get it? the recommendations have been received. _ workers get it? the recommendations have been received. of _ workers get it? the recommendations have been received. of course, - workers get it? the recommendations have been received. of course, we - have been received. of course, we are looking through them very carefully and we will announce our decision in due course. but this is against the backdrop, as you have already been talking about in today's programme, of the very, very strong inflationary currents we have around us. the number one enemy for us is inflation. it is hurting all of us, but particularly the poorest in society. that is why the prime minister has it as his number one priority, to tackle inflation. that way, we will all feel the benefit of wage packets. if way, we will all feel the benefit of wage packets-— wage packets. if you look at what the -a wage packets. if you look at what the pay review — wage packets. if you look at what the pay review bodies _ wage packets. if you look at what| the pay review bodies themselves wage packets. if you look at what - the pay review bodies themselves say about inflation, they say public sector wages are so far behind the

private sector that there is little risk of the government setting a precedent for more inflationary pay rises. 50 the pay review bodies themselves say that is not an argument here. sol themselves say that is not an argument here. so i ask you again, if the independent bodies set a 6%, will workers get 6%? i if the independent bodies set a 6%, will workers get 6%?— will workers get 6%? i haven't seen the reports. — will workers get 6%? i haven't seen the reports. they — will workers get 6%? i haven't seen the reports, they are _ will workers get 6%? i haven't seen the reports, they are being - the reports, they are being considered at the moment. on the wider issue of the jobs market, one of the pressures we have causing this very sticky inflation is precisely because we have such high employment rates. after 13 years of government, we are delighted that we have so many people in work, earning a salary, and all of the benefits that being employed means. what that does mean is that it has an impact on our inflation. so this is why we are having to be so very careful, to get a grip on inflation. that will help everyone across the country. the independent pay review bodies have said that inflation is not affected by public sector pay

increases, because it is so far behind. rishi sunak, we can show the quote, says the government was reasonable and fair, accepted the recommendations in full. the deputy minister says we want to take politics out of this, we have an independent process and we should adhere to that, and you yourself said, in the houses of parliament, pay for most front line workforces is settled through an independent pay review body process. listening to you this morning, it sounds like, actually, you are ready tojump to you this morning, it sounds like, actually, you are ready to jump that process. actually, you are ready to “ump that rocess. ., . . . . �* process. not at all. what i'm saying is that i'm process. not at all. what i'm saying is that i'm not _ process. not at all. what i'm saying is that i'm not involved, _ process. not at all. what i'm saying is that i'm not involved, and - process. not at all. what i'm saying is that i'm not involved, and the - is that i'm not involved, and the minister responsible for tax, i'm not involved in considerations about the pay review body. you not involved in considerations about the pay review body.— the pay review body. you are the financial secretary _ the pay review body. you are the financial secretary to _ the pay review body. you are the financial secretary to the - the pay review body. you are the l financial secretary to the treasury, you must have a view on whether or not it is worth ditching that principle, because the economy is in such difficulty. if that is your view, ourviewers such difficulty. if that is your view, our viewers would like to hear it. �* ., ., it. are not involved in those discussions _ it. are not involved in those discussions at _ it. are not involved in those discussions at the _ it. are not involved in those discussions at the moment, it. are not involved in those l discussions at the moment, it it. are not involved in those - discussions at the moment, it would be quite wrong for me to speculate

as to what is going on with those discussions. as to what is going on with those discussions-— as to what is going on with those discussions. ., . . , _ ., discussions. you are quite happy to talk about it _ discussions. you are quite happy to talk about it in _ discussions. you are quite happy to talk about it in the _ discussions. you are quite happy to talk about it in the house _ discussions. you are quite happy to talk about it in the house of - talk about it in the house of commons, not so long ago. i talk about it in the house of commons, not so long ago. i find m self in commons, not so long ago. i find myself in media _ commons, not so long ago. i find myself in media rounds _ commons, not so long ago. i find myself in media rounds where - commons, not so long ago. i find myself in media rounds where i i commons, not so long ago. i f “if. myself in media rounds where i am quite rightly and understandably being asked questions about a process that is in the middle of being conducted, and so in a few weeks' time, whenever the recommendations, the responses are published, you will have your answer as to what the government view is. i have to focus, as financial secretary, on taxes on the impact of inflation. so i'm trying to set that overall context.— inflation. so i'm trying to set that overall context. understood, but the cuestion overall context. understood, but the question our— overall context. understood, but the question our viewers _ overall context. understood, but the question our viewers and _ overall context. understood, but the question our viewers and public- question our viewers and public sector workers watching will want to know is, do you, as a treasury minister, believe that things are so tough in terms of the public finances that it might be worth ditching that principle of following the independent pay review bodies? that is a question on principle, thatis that is a question on principle, that is not me asking you to divulge

all sorts of secret things. taste all sorts of secret things. we really value _ all sorts of secret things. we really value the _ all sorts of secret things. - really value the bodies, we have got their report, we are looking into it and the results will be announced soon. �* ., y ., and the results will be announced soon. �* ., i. . and the results will be announced soon. �* ., . . ., soon. but do you have a view on whether it _ soon. but do you have a view on whether it is _ soon. but do you have a view on whether it is time _ soon. but do you have a view on whether it is time to _ soon. but do you have a view on whether it is time to ditch - soon. but do you have a view on whether it is time to ditch the i whether it is time to ditch the principle? maybe it's completely unaffordable, and you could say that your viewers and people might understand or get angry. i your viewers and people might understand or get angry. i can't comment _ understand or get angry. i can't comment on — understand or get angry. i can't comment on something - understand or get angry. i can't comment on something i - understand or get angry. i can't comment on something i do - understand or get angry. i can't| comment on something i do not understand or get angry. i can't - comment on something i do not now. i'm not saying this because i'm trying to be awkward or avoid a question, i am trying to be awkward or avoid a question, lam not trying to be awkward or avoid a question, i am not involved, trying to be awkward or avoid a question, lam not involved, quite rightly, in that process, because my responsibility is our collection of tax, those others who are in government are looking at it incredibly carefully because we fully understand how important this is for people at home who are waiting for the results of those decisions. , . ~ waiting for the results of those decisions. , . ,, . . decisions. lets talk about tax, which is your— decisions. lets talk about tax, which is your responsibility. i which is your responsibility. clearly, there's not much money to spend. we know that is the treasury's thinking. your boss jeremy hunt indicated very strongly that either voters or your colleagues on the conservative backbenches hoping for tax cuts any time soon should forget it. yes.

backbenches hoping for tax cuts any time soon should forget it.- time soon should forget it. yes, we are conservatives, _ time soon should forget it. yes, we are conservatives, we _ time soon should forget it. yes, we| are conservatives, we fundamentally believe in lower taxes, i want people to be able to keep more of their hard earned earnings in their pockets and purses. but we are in a situation at the moment where because we were able to support people so well during the pandemic, in thanks, in part, to the previous ten years of conservative government, because of the hard work over that decade we were able to support people through the pandemic. you can remember things like the furlough scheme, we save millions of jobs. furlough scheme, we save millions of “obs. , . . . , furlough scheme, we save millions of “obs. . . . jobs. does that mean that people can foruet jobs. does that mean that people can forget about — jobs. does that mean that people can forget about any _ jobs. does that mean that people can forget about any tax _ jobs. does that mean that people can forget about any tax cuts _ jobs. does that mean that people can forget about any tax cuts before - jobs. does that mean that people can forget about any tax cuts before the i forget about any tax cuts before the next election? taste forget about any tax cuts before the next election?— next election? we have this money which we have _ next election? we have this money which we have rightly _ next election? we have this money which we have rightly spent, - which we have rightly spent, and labour was not arguing with us are spending this money to support people in the nhs, we have also spent £91; billion in cost of living support, which is incredibly important. ma; support, which is incredibly important-— support, which is incredibly imortant. g , ., , , ., important. my question is, should --eole important. my question is, should people forget _ important. my question is, should people forget tax _ important. my question is, should people forget tax cuts _ important. my question is, should people forget tax cuts before - important. my question is, should people forget tax cuts before the | people forget tax cuts before the next election? taste people forget tax cuts before the next election?— next election? we want to be fiscally responsible. - next election? we want to be fiscally responsible. the - next election? we want to be l fiscally responsible. the prime minister and chancellor have said as soon as we can, we will cut taxes.

but we do have to be fiscally responsible about this, which is why we had to make difficult decisions. i'm asking about the timing of what that might mean, your boss, jeremy hunt, seemed to indicate very clearly yesterday that people can absolutely forget about the idea of tax cuts in the autumn, the application being, you might not be able to promise them for the election. has able to promise them for the election. �* , , , able to promise them for the election. . _ , , ., election. as jeremy set out yesterday. _ election. as jeremy set out yesterday, our _ election. as jeremy set out yesterday, our priority - election. as jeremy set out yesterday, our priority has| election. as jeremy set out l yesterday, our priority has to election. as jeremy set out - yesterday, our priority has to be tackling inflation. that is the quickest way we can help people make their wage packets go further. and so this is why the prime minister, he was talking about this two years before anybody else, that is why he made it is never one priority out of his five priorities. but made it is never one priority out of his five priorities.— his five priorities. but i'm asking ou a his five priorities. but i'm asking you a different _ his five priorities. but i'm asking you a different question. - his five priorities. but i'm asking you a different question. should| you a different question. should people are listening this morning, your colleagues on the backbenches, people in government, should they hear from you and from your boss, jeremy hunt, that, you know what, things are so tough on the economy that tax cuts are simply off the agenda for the foreseeable future.

as the chancellor said yesterday, we are having to tackle inflation, that has to be the priority. we don't have the head room to look at tax cuts, but as soon as we can, as soon as we have taken the measures that we are taking to reduce inflation, then we will be able to have those conversations. is then we will be able to have those conversations.— then we will be able to have those conversations. is there any chance ofthat conversations. is there any chance of that happening _ conversations. is there any chance of that happening in _ conversations. is there any chance of that happening in the _ conversations. is there any chance of that happening in the autumn? | conversations. is there any chance i of that happening in the autumn? i'm of that happening in the autumn? i“n reminded of the fact in the autumn we introduced the energy price guarantee that not only helped people immediately with their energy bills, it has cut two percentage points off inflation. when we talk of the the pressure on the jobs market, because we have so many people in work, we unlocked ways to help get people back into the workforce, including the transformational child care package and we are also doing everything we can can to keep people in thejobs sector. that is why we made the pension changes. we are doing

practical things to improve the situation, but the only way to do this is by being responsible and not by borrowing £28 billion like labour suggested. by borrowing £28 billion like labour su: nested. . ~ by borrowing £28 billion like labour su: nested. . ,, i. that's more than enough politics for one morning, although you can of course, always go to iplayer for more. but listen up — you might have the book a little life on your shelf, one of the most controversial best sellers of recent years. or there's a high chance too you might have watched the actors james norton, in happy valley, or luke thomspon in bridgerton. you can see them together on stage in a theatre version of the book that has hardcore subject matter, abuse, recovery and redemption. and the performance has had intense reactions too — some audience members have passed out, and the stars' nudity has gone viral, after a spectator took a secret photo during the play, and posted it online.

yesterday i talked to the actors, and james norton opened up about his relattionship with the main character he plays, jude. he is a man who, in his early years experiences extreme trauma and abuse and then starts a journey of rehabilitation and healing and very quickly he meets these young men who become his very close friends and — not to give anything away — but willem and jude have a very particular relationship which grows into something much deeper. these people come around and they sort of love him out of his pain and so it really is a story about healing and their redemptive love. and the struggle of that, you know i think a lot is made of how extreme the suffering is, but actually — it sounds mad to say — but it is a relatable story, because it's about how hard it is, how suffering can define us and how hard it is to let go of one's suffering. and, actually, we hold our suffering close and it's quite hard to like let go of it.

but for people watching it here in the theatre and soon on cinema screens around the country, people are going to to be able to see it, it is will a real spectacle of self—harm, shouting, weeping, three hours of it, what's it like for you to do that every night? it's been the hardest thing i've done career or otherwise, but it's also been the most rewarding. i will look back on this moment in my life and i think it will have been a really important moment for me personally, for my career. i was terrified of this and i still am, most nights i still get a bout of nerves before i go on. but that's only a testament to how much i care and it's wonderful to care about a job. one of the things that also happens in this play that people are now very comfortable talking about is male nudity. do you feel you have been objectified in a way that female actors wouldn't be now?

obviously, there was one unfortunate moment when i was objectified and the photos were taken and it was put in the tabloid press. what was incredibly encouraging and sort of heart—warming about that experience was the way the community, the theatre community and the also the wider community, like society in general, i mean it wasn't that big a story, but people who were aware of it really came together and said, "this is just not appropriate at all." there was very little, it felt like from my point of view, there was very little sort of salivating around that story. if anything, it was outrage. and that was really a really encouraging reaction that was a moment of objectification. do you feel as a young actor you know most people watching this, will know you from bridgerton and you arrived on our screens and people, oh, goodness me, and you have legion of fans not least of whom share information, pictures of you on their phones. do you feel that is a particular pressure as an actor of your generation? maybe.

personally, not for me, because i'm not on social media, so i don't really care. as in like... ..it doesn't disturb me. i sort of think the whole idea of being an actor is you do want to live in people's imaginations in some kind of way. so, i encourage it, ijust don't want any, i don't want to have any part of it. people are welcome to do whatever they like, i don't really care. do you use social media, are you happy with the role it now has in the sort of, i suppose the world of celebrity really? i use it to promote work, which i'm proud of and i'm really happy to be able to promote this. and when we film this show i will be able to reach the followers i have and hopefully encourage them to watch this and i'm so proud of it and social media will be a way of reaching more and more people. so there are positives. i'm a diabetic, ifound incredible relationships through social media with other diabetics. i have masses of parents of diabetics, or diabetics themselves reaching out on instagram

just saying it is great to see you doing what you are doing. that is a particular challenge when it comes to how physically being on stage for so long? it is. i mean it's challenging in a play environment anyway, because, well, adrenaline affects sugar levels, the fact that i can't leave the stage apart from the interval for three and a half hours, i don't leave the stage and so i have to find kind of ingenious ways of working out what my sugar levels are doing and then mitigating against going hypoglycemic, which is the risky low, and that will then cause me to become disorientated and sweat and eventually faint. so i have to mitigate against that andist these glucose shots spread around the stage. there are bits of food which i have to eat and i have to eat more of it when i need the sugar and less when i don't. but so far it has been really encouraging. if you had asked me six months ago whether i would be able to do a three and half hour play nonstop as a diabetic, i would have

been really scared. and i'm so proud that i've proved to myself and to other type one diabetics that i'm able to do that. i'm sure that will mean a lot to a lot of people hearing you say that. i know we have to finish now, but i just want to ask you both, when you get too the end of this run, i think there's another four weeks, what will you remember from this extraordinary production, might there be a little bit of relief? there will be a little relief. i was saying to you yesterday i will miss sharing a stage with him. yeah, we have some really special up there, it's really unique and i think, yeah, something magic happens every night. i have never been part of play or a production, film or theatre, where every single night some moment of alchemy happens and we experience it together and the rest of the company experience it and the audience experience it. without being conceited at all, the fact that every single person in this auditorium stands at the end at the curtain call and cheers, i have never experienced it. every single night you see people

just covered in tears. i will miss that. but i will also look forward to a holiday, because it has been tough. well, maybe you can work together on something else. maybe james bond and q! you can have him, it's not my bag. thank you so much for speaking us today. thank you you. he was a bit coy about that. and that stage version of a little life will be screened in cinemas across the uk and selected european countries on the 28th of september. now, cast your minds back — making ends meet, as a country, as individuals, is top of the list right now. we spoke at the start of the programme to rachel reeves, who wants to be labour's chancellor, about her approach. all of our plans will be built on a rock of economic and fiscal responsibility. labour will not play fast and loose with the public finances, because the people who pay the price for that are people who own their own homes, who wish to own

their own homes, people running small businesses. taste their own homes, people running small businesses.— their own homes, people running small businesses. we have had a lot of e-mails- — small businesses. we have had a lot of e-mails. short _ small businesses. we have had a lot of e-mails. short shrift _ small businesses. we have had a lot of e-mails. short shrift for - small businesses. we have had a lot of e-mails. short shrift for both i of e—mails. short shrift for both parties. brian wells said: thank you for getting in touch. but what is our panel's closing verdict? you were financial secretary, how did you think victoria atkins did? is she in an impossible situation? i

is she in an impossible situation? i had a sense of nostalgia of being the treasury minister when the finances are in a difficult situation there is no good news to announce. i think the government is in a difficult position on public sector pay, having stated a position about backing the pay review bodies. backing the independents. then clearly questioning _ backing the independents. trien clearly questioning whether backing the independents. trie�*i clearly questioning whether they're going to follow through with that. i can understand where the government is coming from, in terms of the concern about inflation, particularly about the extra, how is this going to be paid for, if you borrow more, it is a big spending commitment that will make the fight against inflation harder. but we at the moment are place e placing so much weight on public sector pay and if you want good public services you need to retain staff. taste if you want good public services you need to retain staff.— need to retain staff. we know there are vacancies _ need to retain staff. we know there are vacancies that _ need to retain staff. we know there are vacancies that are _ need to retain staff. we know there are vacancies that are driving i need to retain staff. we know there are vacancies that are driving the i are vacancies that are driving the strikes. alison, do you think people

will have heard victoria atkins and thought, what? ? it is will have heard victoria atkins and thought, what? ? it is outrageous. the fact she _ thought, what? ? it is outrageous. the fact she won't _ thought, what? ? it is outrageous. the fact she won't commit - thought, what? ? it is outrageous. the fact she won't commit is i thought, what? ? it is outrageous. the fact she won't commit is more | the fact she won't commit is more waffle _ the fact she won't commit is more waffle that— the fact she won't commit is more waffle that people are sick of. also we are _ waffle that people are sick of. also we are talking about the people who .ot we are talking about the people who got us _ we are talking about the people who got us through the pandemic and after— got us through the pandemic and after months of say nothing, it is the independent pay review, oh, the pay review— the independent pay review, oh, the pay review is saying something we don't _ pay review is saying something we don't want — pay review is saying something we don't want to hear. it stinks. again it speaks— don't want to hear. it stinks. again it speaks to — don't want to hear. it stinks. again it speaks to that break down of trust — it speaks to that break down of trust. . , , . , it speaks to that break down of trust. . , , ., ., trust. finally, james norton was coy about whether _ trust. finally, james norton was coy about whether he _ trust. finally, james norton was coy about whether he might _ trust. finally, james norton was coy about whether he might be - trust. finally, james norton was coy about whether he might be the i trust. finally, james norton was coy about whether he might be the next| about whether he might be the next bond, who would your dream bond be? he needs to be macho and get into trouble _ he needs to be macho and get into trouble and — he needs to be macho and get into trouble and get _ he needs to be macho and get into trouble and get the _ he needs to be macho and get into trouble and get the nation - he needs to be macho and get into trouble and get the nation out i he needs to be macho and get into trouble and get the nation out of i trouble and get the nation out of trouble — trouble and get the nation out of trouble 50— trouble and get the nation out of trouble. so ben _ trouble and get the nation out of trouble. so ben stokes. - trouble and get the nation out of trouble. so ben stokes. [- trouble and get the nation out of trouble. so ben stokes. i wondered whether ltoris _ trouble. so ben stokes. i wondered whether boris johnson _ trouble. so ben stokes. i wondered whether boris johnson is _ trouble. so ben stokes. i wondered whether boris johnson is out - trouble. so ben stokes. i wondered whether boris johnson is out of- trouble. so ben stokes. i wondered whether boris johnson is out of a i whether boris johnson is out of a 'ob, whether boris johnson is out of a job, he _ whether boris johnson is out of a job, he keeps running, is he trying to get— job, he keeps running, is he trying to get into — job, he keeps running, is he trying

to get into state for it. do job, he keeps running, is he trying to get into state for it.— to get into state for it. do you back ltoris _ to get into state for it. do you back boris as _ to get into state for it. do you back boris as bond? - to get into state for it. do you back boris as bond? no, i to get into state for it. do you back boris as bond? no, that| to get into state for it. do you i back boris as bond? no, that would be a surprise _ back boris as bond? no, that would be a surprise for _ back boris as bond? no, that would be a surprise for so _ back boris as bond? no, that would be a surprise for so many _ back boris as bond? no, that would be a surprise for so many reasons. l be a surprise for so many reasons. ben stokes needs to keep on the cricket. ., huge thank you to stewart, to david, and to alison, to you for sharing your stories and views, and of course for watching. we've tried this morning to sketch out more of the real differences bewteen labour and the conservatives' approaches on the economy. they share the ethos that now is not the time to be offering huge tax cuts or huge new cheques for ordinary public spending, whatever economists say. but we know their instincts and ambitions are different. the task for the oppositon, perhaps, to persuade you what that means in practice, to translate a hefy poll lead into practical promises. thejob for the tories, in contrast, to try to grab back their traditional lead on being able to run the economy that years in power and months

of chaos have squandered. that's quite a to do list for both! as ever, thank you for company, you can check in on the bbc live page or iplayer — or i'll look forward to seeing you same time, same place next week.

live from london. this is bbc news an unnamed bbc presenter is facing fresh allegations in the sun newspaper, of being pictured in his underwear,

on a video call to a teenager he allegedly paid for