for us. get in touch, 08085 909693. the presenter, what next? the bbc is in the spotlight, the sun is in the spotlight and be presented thus far is still in the twilight. the sun has a long list of questions for the bbc, the bbc and others have a long list of questions for the sun. journalism is at the heart of this, ethical or otherwise. the bbc director—general tim davie is presenting the annual report it today, he will face questions from the price. i wonder what they will ask you?! will cash at the attic be recommissioned? i don't think so. it might be recommissioned, i do not think that is one of the questions. get in touch. what do you reckon? what an extraordinary turn of events in this extraordinary saga.

the presenter — what next? here is the news from bethan holmes. the bbc director—general — tim davie — is to face questions for the first time since an unnamed bbc presenter was accused by the sun newspaper of paying tens of thousands of pounds to a teenager for explicit photos. mr davie will answer questions at the unveiling of the corporation's yearly report. a lawyer representing the now 20—year—old at the centre of the story says the allegations are "rubbish" — but the sun says it's seen evidence to back the claims made by the young person's mum. mortgage costs have hit their highest level for 15 years after the rate on a twp—year fixed deal surpassed the peak in the aftermath of the mini budget. the average rate on such a deal is now over 6.6% — a level not seen since august 2008

and the financial crisis. mps are to vote on changes to the illegal migration bill. amendments put forward by ministers include limits on the detention of unaccompanied children — who will be granted immigration bail after eight days instead of 28. uk wages were 7.3% higher in the three months to may compared with the same time last year. but adjusted for inflation in real terms, pay fell by 0.8%. it has the makings of a bit of a media war, the bbc has to adhere to much sterner and stricter

accountability than the sun newspaper. we have 0fcom to answer to, the sun has advertisers to answer too and they can take a stand. we are operating in different regulatory universes. journalism is now at the heart of the story, the dos and don'ts, the rights and wrongs. loads of questions to ask, not all of them we are able to answer, obviously and for obvious reasons. professor lis howell, a former itv and sky news executive, director of broadcasting at the university of london, hello. neil wallis, former deputy editor of the sun. neil has been around the block are few times, how are you doing? hi. ~ , ,., ~ are few times, how are you doing? hi. ~ , ., are few times, how are you doing? hi. we spoke to kelvin mackenzie a little bit earlier, _ hi. we spoke to kelvin mackenzie a little bit earlier, it _ hi. we spoke to kelvin mackenzie a little bit earlier, it is _ hi. we spoke to kelvin mackenzie a little bit earlier, it is probably - little bit earlier, it is probably worthwhile hearing what the former editor of the sun, a man well known

to both of you and specifically to your good self, neil, i had a conversation with him just before coming on air, this is the sun, a man well known to both of you and specifically to your good self, neil, i had a conversation with him just before coming on air, this is some of it. just before coming on air, this is some of it— just before coming on air, this is some of it. ,, ~ ., , , ~ ., some of it. the sun knows, they know lots of other — some of it. the sun knows, they know lots of other things, _ some of it. the sun knows, they know lots of other things, they _ some of it. the sun knows, they know lots of other things, they know - lots of other things, they know about— lots of other things, they know about the — lots of other things, they know about the bank account and other stuff, _ about the bank account and other stuff, they— about the bank account and other stuff, they have lots of evidence. in a court — stuff, they have lots of evidence. in a court of— stuff, they have lots of evidence. in a court of law, which they may well end — in a court of law, which they may well end up— in a court of law, which they may well end up one way or another in a court _ well end up one way or another in a court of— well end up one way or another in a court of law, — well end up one way or another in a court of law, i have absolutely no doubts _ court of law, i have absolutely no doubts where the balance will lie. however. — doubts where the balance will lie. however, then you have the other thing _ however, then you have the other thing where the young person sends a whatsapp _ thing where the young person sends a whatsapp late on a friday night and says. _ whatsapp late on a friday night and says. this _ whatsapp late on a friday night and says. this is — whatsapp late on a friday night and says, this is all untrue. so there are two— says, this is all untrue. so there are two different factions here. one, _ are two different factions here. one, caring parents worried about 0ne, caring parents worried about their— 0ne, caring parents worried about their child's — 0ne, caring parents worried about their child's future and getting caught— their child's future and getting caught up in drugs and various other things. _

caught up in drugs and various other things, caught up in this... i don't know— things, caught up in this... i don't know if— things, caught up in this... i don't know if it — things, caught up in this... i don't know if it is — things, caught up in this... i don't know if it is a _ things, caught up in this... i don't know if it is a relationship or not. on the _ know if it is a relationship or not. on the other— know if it is a relationship or not. on the other side you have a 0n the other side you have a whatsapp out of nowhere saying it is all cobblers, late at night. there is no _ all cobblers, late at night. there is no doubt — all cobblers, late at night. there is no doubt at all, it is not about journalism, _ is no doubt at all, it is not about journalism, it is the balance whether— journalism, it is the balance whether you should bother to cover it or not. _ whether you should bother to cover it or not. i— whether you should bother to cover it or not, i think that is perfectly fair~ _ it or not, i think that is perfectly fair. �* ., ., , , , fair. being reasonable it surely sa s ou fair. being reasonable it surely says you out — fair. being reasonable it surely says you out the _ fair. being reasonable it surely says you put the young - fair. being reasonable it surely says you put the young person | fair. being reasonable it surely - says you put the young person puts my comment into the article. timer;r my comment into the article. they have been trying — my comment into the article. they have been trying to _ my comment into the article. they have been trying to contact the kids for ages— have been trying to contact the kids for ages and in the end suddenly the young _ for ages and in the end suddenly the young person comes out of the woodwork and says it is all untrue. funniiy— woodwork and says it is all untrue. funnily enough, replicates those statements some 48 hours later by paying. _ statements some 48 hours later by paying. or — statements some 48 hours later by paying, or somebody paid expensive lawyers _ paying, or somebody paid expensive

lawyers a _ paying, or somebody paid expensive lawyers a lot of money to issue a statement — lawyers a lot of money to issue a statement on their behalf. i would be more _ statement on their behalf. i would be more interested in who paid the lawyers _ be more interested in who paid the lawyers' bills in this rather complicated scenario. it is lawyers' bills in this rather complicated scenario. it is on my list of questions _ complicated scenario. it is on my list of questions for _ complicated scenario. it is on my list of questions for discussion. l complicated scenario. it is on my| list of questions for discussion. it is indeed an interesting aspect of all of this. this presenter, you think they will be identified, because there is some talk now that that name may never come out. i because there is some talk now that that name may never come out. i have never believed — that name may never come out. i have never believed that _ that name may never come out. i have never believed that the _ that name may never come out. i have never believed that the presenter - never believed that the presenter will be _ never believed that the presenter will be identified now. once that statement was made it ended the chance. _ statement was made it ended the chance, and there was clearly not a chance. _ chance, and there was clearly not a chance. we — chance, and there was clearly not a chance, we did not know that, nobody knew. _ chance, we did not know that, nobody knew. of— chance, we did not know that, nobody knew. of a _ chance, we did not know that, nobody knew, of a court action, somebody being _ knew, of a court action, somebody being charged one way or the other. the young _ being charged one way or the other. the young person had said nothing inappropriate or unlawful happened

therefore _ inappropriate or unlawful happened therefore there is no evidence or witness. — therefore there is no evidence or witness, that is the end of that. that— witness, that is the end of that. that now— witness, that is the end of that. that now leads the presenter with an issue _ that now leads the presenter with an issue the _ that now leads the presenter with an issue. the presenter says i have not done _ issue. the presenter says i have not done anything wrong, therefore i want _ done anything wrong, therefore i want my— done anything wrong, therefore i want myjob back. they won't get their— want myjob back. they won't get theiriob — want myjob back. they won't get theirjob back but what will even be worse _ theirjob back but what will even be worse for— theirjob back but what will even be worse for the corporation and tim davie _ worse for the corporation and tim davie and — worse for the corporation and tim davie and his management is the idea that they— davie and his management is the idea that they will get severance, and that they will get severance, and that i_ that they will get severance, and that i see — that they will get severance, and that i see is the biggest problem looming — that i see is the biggest problem looming on this story that eventually the star presenter eventually the star presenter eventually receives licence fee payers' — eventually receives licence fee payers' money to go away. what an extraordinary — payers' money to go away. what an extraordinary moment _ payers' money to go away. what an extraordinary moment that - payers' money to go away. what an extraordinary moment that would l payers' money to go away. what an l extraordinary moment that would be. former editor of the sun, kelvin mckenzie. neil, you know kelvin well. moving on from the ethic of this, if you were the editor, and you have been a deputy editor and editor of massive circulation newspapers, would you have taken the

boy's account into account? i had boy's account into account? i had said before _ boy's account into account? i had said before that _ boy's account into account? i had said before that the _ boy's account into account? i had said before that the bbc- boy's account into account? i had said before that the bbc is - boy's account into account? i had said before that the bbc is in - boy's account into account? i had said before that the bbc is in a i said before that the bbc is in a very, very precarious position. with the greatest respect, you and i have known each other for a very long time, trying to move this into a story about media ethics is the way forward, nor is it good for the bbc brand. bbc has awful lot to consider here. if you simply look at it in theissue here. if you simply look at it in the issue of shirt a very, very famous bbc presenter —— should to a very, very famous bbc presenter who has been accused of playing very large sums of money to a young person, allegedly according to the caring parent i7

person, allegedly according to the caring parent 17 years old originally, that is what the story is. —— accused of paying very large sums of money. newsnight last night instantly started crowing this is the sun being exposed itself. you don't want to go there. the bbc does not want to try to do a jimmy savile on this. and either ignore it or cover it up. there is a straightforward problem for the bbc. for instance, the police element is a complete destruction. the idea of trying to get the police involved in what is enormously complicated and would take forever, what you cannot get away from is two caring parents who are not being page, who came to the bbc to try to stop money being

funnelled to what they say is a crack addicted teenager, young person —— two caring parents who are not being paid. there was no action from the bbc, for the bbc to try now to turn this onto the sun, i think, is misguided. the to turn this onto the sun, i think, is misguided-— to turn this onto the sun, i think, is misguided. the bbc is a massive organisation _ is misguided. the bbc is a massive organisation and _ is misguided. the bbc is a massive organisation and the _ is misguided. the bbc is a massive organisation and the bbc _ is misguided. the bbc is a massive organisation and the bbc coverage| is misguided. the bbc is a massive l organisation and the bbc coverage of this story has been comprehensive and honest. there is the bizarre situation, as you well know, when there is a major bbc story, right on there is a major bbc story, right on the front foot when it comes to doing doorstepping and digging is the bbc. i think that is something we should cherish.— the bbc. i think that is something we should cherish. absolutely, and i think ou we should cherish. absolutely, and i think you have _ we should cherish. absolutely, and i think you have been _ we should cherish. absolutely, and i think you have been impeccable - we should cherish. absolutely, and i | think you have been impeccable until that statement came out last night, and i'm just worried about this this morning. what you can't get away from, as kelvin asked you, child and

child are a massive property lawyer company based in belgravia, who is paying for that. company based in belgravia, who is paying for that-— paying for that. human kesely exoensive- — paying for that. human kesely expensive. we _ paying for that. human kesely expensive. we are _ paying for that. human kesely expensive. we are talking - paying for that. human kesely - expensive. we are talking something like £1500 an hour. —— humongous in their expense. truth? like £1500 an hour. -- humongous in their exoense-_ their expense. why has the latter not been published? _ their expense. why has the latter not been published? there - their expense. why has the latter not been published? there is - their expense. why has the latter not been published? there is no. not been published? there is no specific addressing of this —— other issues. it pictures exist? were they transferred between these two people? was money paid? was an attempt to stop at a mate by the bbc when they first made it known? were the parents properly treated? they have not received any money from the media. according to ben, and there

was nobody i'm aware of, not least the bbc, suggesting they are acting in any other way than as a caring parent —— according to then. i genuinely believe it is a distraction. i genuinely believe it is a distraction.— genuinely believe it is a distraction. . ., , , genuinely believe it is a distraction. . , ., distraction. i am absolutely hearing ou, neil, distraction. i am absolutely hearing you. neil. but— distraction. i am absolutely hearing you, neil, but we _ distraction. i am absolutely hearing you, neil, but we do _ distraction. i am absolutely hearing you, neil, but we do not _ distraction. i am absolutely hearing you, neil, but we do not know- distraction. i am absolutely hearing you, neil, but we do not know the. you, neil, but we do not know the nature of the initial complaint. there are lots of known unknowns and unknown unknowns. we do not know the nature of the original complaint. had it had nothing to do with the bbc, merely something concerning two adults, their private life, whatever, whatever, whatever, that is nothing to do with the bbc, it is to do with the young person and the presenter and their own family. nicky, i'm amazed at how great your

hair is considering the number of years you have been doing this job. —— i'm amazed at how un—grey your hair is. with a star of this magnitude it is notjust about that individual, it is about how any allegation would impact the bbc. the bbc has to look at its overall corporate image and has to investigate allegations like this. you were quite right at the top of the show when you said that when tim davie stanton he will not be asked for once about your salary or whether rooms at the attic or whatever it is called will be renewed, he will not be asked about streaming, he will be asked about this —— when tim davie stand up later. the topic of discussion on the streets is this. in my local pub last night, what were they talking about? the really worrying thing is

about? the really worrying thing is about 60% of the people i spoke to knew the name that has been widely bandied about. but there were other people who were saying no, it is somebody else. tell people who were saying no, it is somebody else.— people who were saying no, it is somebody else. tell me about it! that is a big _ somebody else. tell me about it! that is a big issue. _ somebody else. tell me about it! that is a big issue. i _ somebody else. tell me about it! that is a big issue. i think- somebody else. tell me about it! that is a big issue. i think we - somebody else. tell me about it! | that is a big issue. i think we have ossibl that is a big issue. i think we have possibly moved — that is a big issue. i think we have possibly moved on _ that is a big issue. i think we have possibly moved on from _ that is a big issue. i think we have possibly moved on from that - that is a big issue. i think we have i possibly moved on from that because the presenter has been suspended and there are lots of presenters on the air who can kind of be counted out. what happens if you are on holiday?! jon kay, who is completely innocent, great guy, greatjournalist, he said, i'm off on holiday, which is enough. lots of people are talking about this, talking about the bbc, talking about the sun. if somebody had come to the bbc or in fact other newspapers with this story and then

the young person had come to them with a slightly alternative account, saying there was nothing illegal or inappropriate, they would have been morally bound, duty—bound, to have put that in the article. without naming them, but so—and—so denies the story, the young person is saying this. that is part of proper reporting, isn't it?— reporting, isn't it? yes, ithink so. i reporting, isn't it? yes, ithink so- idont— reporting, isn't it? yes, ithink so. i don't know _ reporting, isn't it? yes, ithink so. i don't know the _ reporting, isn't it? yes, i think- so. i don't know the circumstances of how that happened on the night, i have to say. maybe it is something that the sun should mention. it is now known, their business letter, it is out there. what i think we have to be careful about is to avoid turning this down the alley by the

bbc to distract. this is a serious issue and it needs to be addressed seriously in a way that for instance on itv they did not do with phillip schofield at the beginning, did they? the way they handled that made it much worse. i would just hope the bbc keep very focused on getting to the bottom of really what happened here and don't get tempted into the kneejerk, let's shoot the messenger. i'll have a word, but we are beholden to do that by the nature of the bbc, with transparency. neil —— lis, you have heard the former editor of the people, i think it is? and the news of the world. lis

howell, what do you make with what neil said? howell, what do you make with what neilsaid? 0r howell, what do you make with what neilsaid? or could i disagree howell, what do you make with what neil said? or could i disagree with him on one hand, i think itv behaved pretty reasonably in the phillip schofield case and pretty reasonably in the phillip schofield cas— pretty reasonably in the phillip schofield case and in their rent master stroke _ schofield case and in their rent master stroke is _ schofield case and in their rent master stroke is bringing - schofield case and in their rent master stroke is bringing in - schofield case and in their rent master stroke is bringing in an| master stroke is bringing in an objective — master stroke is bringing in an objective barrister— master stroke is bringing in an objective barrister to - master stroke is bringing in an. objective barrister to investigate and this— objective barrister to investigate and this nray— objective barrister to investigate and this may be _ objective barrister to investigate and this may be the _ objective barrister to investigate and this may be the way- objective barrister to investigate and this may be the way that. objective barrister to investigate | and this may be the way that the objective barrister to investigate - and this may be the way that the bbc has to— and this may be the way that the bbc has to go _ and this may be the way that the bbc has to go there _ and this may be the way that the bbc has to go. there is— and this may be the way that the bbc has to go. there is a _ and this may be the way that the bbc has to go. there is a question - and this may be the way that the bbc has to go. there is a question of- has to go. there is a question of whether— has to go. there is a question of whether or— has to go. there is a question of whether or not _ has to go. there is a question of whether or not the _ has to go. there is a question of whether or not the sun - has to go. there is a question of whether or not the sun should . has to go. there is a question of. whether or not the sun should have used a _ whether or not the sun should have used a comment— whether or not the sun should have used a comment from _ whether or not the sun should have used a comment from the - whether or not the sun should have used a comment from the young i whether or not the sun should have - used a comment from the young person who allegedly _ used a comment from the young person who allegedly got — used a comment from the young person who allegedly got in _ used a comment from the young person who allegedly got in touch _ used a comment from the young person who allegedly got in touch with - used a comment from the young person who allegedly got in touch with them i who allegedly got in touch with them on friday— who allegedly got in touch with them on friday night— who allegedly got in touch with them on friday night via _ who allegedly got in touch with them on friday night via whatsapp, - who allegedly got in touch with them on friday night via whatsapp, that. on friday night via whatsapp, that is difficult. — on friday night via whatsapp, that is difficult, the — on friday night via whatsapp, that is difficult, the more _ on friday night via whatsapp, that is difficult, the more sources- on friday night via whatsapp, that is difficult, the more sources you i is difficult, the more sources you have _ is difficult, the more sources you have on— is difficult, the more sources you have on a — is difficult, the more sources you have on a story— is difficult, the more sources you have on a story the _ is difficult, the more sources you have on a story the better, - is difficult, the more sources you have on a story the better, but. is difficult, the more sources you have on a story the better, but if| have on a story the better, but if you really— have on a story the better, but if you really believe _ have on a story the better, but if you really believe your _ have on a story the better, but if you really believe your main - have on a story the better, but if. you really believe your main source and you _ you really believe your main source and you are — you really believe your main source and you are really _ you really believe your main source and you are really going _ you really believe your main source and you are really going to - you really believe your main source and you are really going to risk - you really believe your main source and you are really going to risk a i and you are really going to risk a very— and you are really going to risk a very big — and you are really going to risk a very big possible _ and you are really going to risk a very big possible defamation- and you are really going to risk a l very big possible defamation case and you are really going to risk a - very big possible defamation case by --oin very big possible defamation case by going with _ very big possible defamation case by going with them. _ very big possible defamation case by going with them, then _ very big possible defamation case by going with them, then a whatsapp l very big possible defamation case byl going with them, then a whatsapp on a friday— going with them, then a whatsapp on a friday night— going with them, then a whatsapp on a friday night from _ going with them, then a whatsapp on a friday night from somebody - going with them, then a whatsapp on a friday night from somebody that. a friday night from somebody that perhaps— a friday night from somebody that perhaps you — a friday night from somebody that perhaps you heard _ a friday night from somebody that perhaps you heard about - a friday night from somebody that perhaps you heard about from - a friday night from somebody that perhaps you heard about from the | perhaps you heard about from the parents _ perhaps you heard about from the parents has — perhaps you heard about from the parents has issues _ perhaps you heard about from the parents has issues and _ perhaps you heard about from the parents has issues and so - perhaps you heard about from the parents has issues and so on, - perhaps you heard about from the parents has issues and so on, it. perhaps you heard about from the . parents has issues and so on, it may not be _ parents has issues and so on, it may not be the _ parents has issues and so on, it may not be the most _ parents has issues and so on, it may not be the most overwhelming - not be the most overwhelming evidence. _ not be the most overwhelming evidence. i_ not be the most overwhelming evidence. ithink— not be the most overwhelming evidence. i think it _ not be the most overwhelming

evidence. i think it is - not be the most overwhelming i evidence. i think it is interesting as a media — evidence. i think it is interesting as a media story— evidence. i think it is interesting as a media story so _ evidence. i think it is interesting as a media story so i— evidence. i think it is interesting as a media story so i slightly- as a media story so i slightly disagree _ as a media story so i slightly disagree with— as a media story so i slightly disagree with neil, - as a media story so i slightly disagree with neil, the - as a media story so i slightlyl disagree with neil, the battle as a media story so i slightly- disagree with neil, the battle has been _ disagree with neil, the battle has been drawn— disagree with neil, the battle has been drawn up— disagree with neil, the battle has been drawn up between- disagree with neil, the battle has been drawn up between the - disagree with neil, the battle has been drawn up between the sun i disagree with neil, the battle has i been drawn up between the sun the bbc, been drawn up between the sun the bbc. to— been drawn up between the sun the bbc. to see — been drawn up between the sun the bbc, to see what _ been drawn up between the sun the bbc, to see what happens - been drawn up between the sun the bbc, to see what happens will - been drawn up between the sun the bbc, to see what happens will be i bbc, to see what happens will be very interesting. _ bbc, to see what happens will be very interesting. the _ bbc, to see what happens will be very interesting. the other- bbc, to see what happens will be very interesting. the other pointl bbc, to see what happens will be | very interesting. the other point i will for— very interesting. the other point i will for your— very interesting. the other point i will for your listeners— very interesting. the other point i will for your listeners is _ very interesting. the other point i will for your listeners is the - very interesting. the other point i will for your listeners is the sun l will for your listeners is the sun is a commercial— will for your listeners is the sun is a commercial newspaper - will for your listeners is the sun. is a commercial newspaper which absolutely— is a commercial newspaper which absolutely rely _ is a commercial newspaper which absolutely rely for— is a commercial newspaper which absolutely rely for advertising - is a commercial newspaper whichl absolutely rely for advertising and selling _ absolutely rely for advertising and selling copies. _ absolutely rely for advertising and selling copies. the _ absolutely rely for advertising and selling copies. the bbc— absolutely rely for advertising and selling copies. the bbc is- absolutely rely for advertising and selling copies. the bbc is huge i absolutely rely for advertising and i selling copies. the bbc is huge and publicly— selling copies. the bbc is huge and publicly funded _ selling copies. the bbc is huge and publicly funded and _ selling copies. the bbc is huge and publicly funded and the _ selling copies. the bbc is huge and publicly funded and the price - selling copies. the bbc is huge and publicly funded and the price the i publicly funded and the price the bbc pays— publicly funded and the price the bbc pays for— publicly funded and the price the bbc pays for not _ publicly funded and the price the bbc pays for not being _ publicly funded and the price the bbc pays for not being in - publicly funded and the price the bbc pays for not being in the - bbc pays for not being in the commercial— bbc pays for not being in the commercial world _ bbc pays for not being in the commercial world as- bbc pays for not being in the commercial world as it - bbc pays for not being in the commercial world as it has . bbc pays for not being in the | commercial world as it has to bbc pays for not being in the . commercial world as it has to be impartial. — commercial world as it has to be impartial, held _ commercial world as it has to be impartial, held to— commercial world as it has to be impartial, held to account - commercial world as it has to be impartial, held to account and l commercial world as it has to be . impartial, held to account and very transparent. — impartial, held to account and very transparent. furthermore, - impartial, held to account and very transparent. furthermore, i- impartial, held to account and very transparent. furthermore, i think. transparent. furthermore, ithink the legalities _ transparent. furthermore, ithink the legalities on _ transparent. furthermore, ithink the legalities on this _ transparent. furthermore, ithink the legalities on this are - transparent. furthermore, ithink the legalities on this are very- the legalities on this are very important _ the legalities on this are very important but _ the legalities on this are very important but if— the legalities on this are very important but if money- the legalities on this are very important but if money has l the legalities on this are very- important but if money has changed hands. _ important but if money has changed hands. even — important but if money has changed hands. even if— important but if money has changed hands, even if perhaps— important but if money has changed hands, even if perhaps nothing - hands, even if perhaps nothing obviously— hands, even if perhaps nothing obviously illegal— hands, even if perhaps nothing obviously illegal has _ hands, even if perhaps nothingl obviously illegal has happened, there _ obviously illegal has happened, there is— obviously illegal has happened, there is something _ obviously illegal has happened, there is something tawdry- obviously illegal has happened, i there is something tawdry about obviously illegal has happened, - there is something tawdry about this story that _ there is something tawdry about this story that needs— there is something tawdry about this story that needs to _ there is something tawdry about this story that needs to be _ there is something tawdry about this story that needs to be investigated l story that needs to be investigated and which — story that needs to be investigated and which of— story that needs to be investigated and which of these _ story that needs to be investigated and which of these allegations - story that needs to be investigated and which of these allegations arei and which of these allegations are proved _ and which of these allegations are proved in— and which of these allegations are proved in part _ and which of these allegations are proved in part or— and which of these allegations are proved in part or wholly, - and which of these allegations are proved in part or wholly, will- and which of these allegations are proved in part or wholly, will have a negative — proved in part or wholly, will have a negative effect _ proved in part or wholly, will have a negative effect initially- proved in part or wholly, will have a negative effect initially on- proved in part or wholly, will have a negative effect initially on the l a negative effect initially on the bbc and — a negative effect initially on the bbc and the _ a negative effect initially on the bbc and the bbc _ a negative effect initially on the

bbc and the bbc has _ a negative effect initially on the bbc and the bbc has to - a negative effect initially on the bbc and the bbc has to be - a negative effect initially on thel bbc and the bbc has to be ready a negative effect initially on the - bbc and the bbc has to be ready for that. i— bbc and the bbc has to be ready for that. .. bbc and the bbc has to be ready for that. ., ., that. i disagree with neil again... i don't that. i disagree with neil again... i don't quite _ that. i disagree with neil again... i don't quite understand - that. i disagree with neil again... i don't quite understand that - i don't quite understand that particular point, lis. something about the story is tawdry, that may well be so, but if there is any tawdry notes, why would it be any business of the bbc if nothing illegal or inappropriate has happened —— why would any tawdriness. inappropriate, not appropriate in certain circumstances and we do not know the circumstances. i do not quite understand what you are saying about even so it is a problem for the bbc. i understand exactly what you are saying. _ i understand exactly what you are saying. if— i understand exactly what you are saying. if it — i understand exactly what you are saying. if it is _ i understand exactly what you are saying, if it is not _ i understand exactly what you are saying, if it is not illegal- i understand exactly what you are saying, if it is not illegal it - i understand exactly what you are saying, if it is not illegal it is - saying, if it is not illegal it is ok. — saying, if it is not illegal it is 0k. in— saying, if it is not illegal it is 0k. in many— saying, if it is not illegal it is ok, in many cases _ saying, if it is not illegal it is ok, in many cases that - saying, if it is not illegal it is ok, in many cases that is. saying, if it is not illegal it is . 0k, in many cases that is true, saying, if it is not illegal it is - 0k, in many cases that is true, but if you _ 0k, in many cases that is true, but if you had — 0k, in many cases that is true, but if you had somebody _ 0k, in many cases that is true, but if you had somebody of _ 0k, in many cases that is true, but if you had somebody of enormous i if you had somebody of enormous weight— if you had somebody of enormous weight and — if you had somebody of enormous weight and influence _ if you had somebody of enormous weight and influence involved - if you had somebody of enormous weight and influence involved in. if you had somebody of enormous weight and influence involved in aj weight and influence involved in a story— weight and influence involved in a story like — weight and influence involved in a story like this _ weight and influence involved in a story like this then _ weight and influence involved in a story like this then it _ weight and influence involved in a story like this then it will - weight and influence involved in a story like this then it will affect i story like this then it will affect whatever— story like this then it will affect whatever the _ story like this then it will affect whatever the legalities, - story like this then it will affect whatever the legalities, the - whatever the legalities, the policies _ whatever the legalities, the policies and _ whatever the legalities, the policies and due _ whatever the legalities, the policies and due process, . whatever the legalities, the policies and due process, it| whatever the legalities, the - policies and due process, it will have _ policies and due process, it will have an — policies and due process, it will have an effect _ policies and due process, it will have an effect on _

policies and due process, it will have an effect on the _ policies and due process, it will have an effect on the bbc - policies and due process, it will have an effect on the bbc and i have an effect on the bbc and therefore _ have an effect on the bbc and therefore the _ have an effect on the bbc and therefore the bbc _ have an effect on the bbc and therefore the bbc has - have an effect on the bbc and therefore the bbc has to - have an effect on the bbc and therefore the bbc has to take | therefore the bbc has to take action. — therefore the bbc has to take action. it _ therefore the bbc has to take action. it is— therefore the bbc has to take action, it isjust_ therefore the bbc has to take action, it isjust human - therefore the bbc has to take i action, it isjust human beings. therefore the bbc has to take - action, it isjust human beings. it will action, it isjust human beings. will not have an effect if the action, it isjust human beings.- will not have an effect if the name never comes out? it will not have an effect if the name never comes out?— never comes out? it will be worse because the _ never comes out? it will be worse because the name _ never comes out? it will be worse because the name will— never comes out? it will be worse because the name will go - never comes out? it will be worse because the name will go round i never comes out? it will be worse l because the name will go round and round _ because the name will go round and round until— because the name will go round and round until something _ because the name will go round and round until something does - because the name will go round and round until something does come i because the name will go round and . round until something does come out. let's break... — round until something does come out. let's break... i— round until something does come out. let's break... i don't— round until something does come out. let's break... idon't mean— round until something does come out. let's break... i don't mean break, - let's break... i don't mean break, let's ramp it up with a couple of calls. media law expert david banks will be with us, we have neil wallis, we have neil wallisranjana and we have set in newcastle. you're considered, cautious and careful view? —— and we have ranjana in newcastle. i view? -- and we have ran'ana in newcastle.— view? -- and we have ran'ana in newcastle. . , , . ., , newcastle. i had spent much of my life fighting — newcastle. i had spent much of my life fighting for _ newcastle. i had spent much of my life fighting for people's _ newcastle. i had spent much of my life fighting for people's rights, - life fighting for people's rights, justice and fairness. this case shows that if we could recognise the absolute tragedy that happened when

names are put out before they have been found guilty of anything, it destroys them, it destroys family. if we can afford it to this presenter, it should be afforded to anybody who is accused and no name should be put out before they are found guilty of something. as far as i am concerned, i'm not interested in who the presenter is or who the victims may be, but the victims have a right to be protected, as we found out with this particular victim putting out their own statements. as far as i am concerned, if we can't follow that principle then we should do it for everyone else. you follow that principle then we should do it for everyone else.— do it for everyone else. you could arr ue do it for everyone else. you could argue that — do it for everyone else. you could argue that the — do it for everyone else. you could argue that the parents _ do it for everyone else. you could argue that the parents by - argue that the parents by association and by perhaps familial complexity, possibly, are victims too. they have a right to be heard. i am not disputing the fact that it has to be dealt with, but that is a

private matter between the family, the victim and in this case the bbc. we have trial by media going on all the time and there seems to be an insatiable need to buy the public to know every detail of everybody else's lives and business and people are so judgmental and else's lives and business and people are sojudgmental and it is else's lives and business and people are so judgmental and it is so damaging. ithink are so judgmental and it is so damaging. i think we should all shut up damaging. i think we should all shut up and stop demanding to know the detail of this. let the bbc get on with it and do what they have to do and protect everybody.— with it and do what they have to do and protect everybody. wisdom. colin in dover? i agree _ and protect everybody. wisdom. colin in dover? i agree with _ and protect everybody. wisdom. colin in dover? i agree with that _ and protect everybody. wisdom. colin in dover? i agree with that previous i in dover? i agree with that previous lad . i in dover? i agree with that previous lady- i was — in dover? i agree with that previous lady- i was going — in dover? i agree with that previous lady. i was going to _ in dover? i agree with that previous lady. i was going to say _ in dover? i agree with that previous lady. i was going to say all- in dover? i agree with that previous lady. i was going to say all of- lady. i was going to say all of those — lady. i was going to say all of those things. the thing i could add to it. _ those things. the thing i could add to it. that— those things. the thing i could add to it, that the sun being a right—wing leaning paper, i wonder

whether— right—wing leaning paper, i wonder whether it — right—wing leaning paper, i wonder whether it was all part of undermining the bbc again. they tend to politicise events like this and itjust _ to politicise events like this and itjust brings down to politicise events like this and it just brings down the to politicise events like this and itjust brings down the name of the bbc. �* ., , itjust brings down the name of the sac. �* ., , , ,., itjust brings down the name of the sac. �* ., , , ., itjust brings down the name of the ssc.�* ., ,. bbc. i've got the very person to put that excellent _ bbc. i've got the very person to put that excellent question _ bbc. i've got the very person to put that excellent question two, - bbc. i've got the very person to put that excellent question two, david l that excellent question two, david banks, media law expert.- that excellent question two, david banks, media law expert. hello. is there some — banks, media law expert. hello. is there some proxy _ banks, media law expert. hello. is there some proxy here _ banks, media law expert. hello. is there some proxy here between i banks, media law expert. hello. is there some proxy here between the sun and the bbc agendas, different journalistic expectations? there sun and the bbc agendas, different journalistic expectations?— journalistic expectations? there is alwa s journalistic expectations? there is always agendas — journalistic expectations? there is always agendas going _ journalistic expectations? there is always agendas going on - journalistic expectations? there is always agendas going on and - journalistic expectations? there is| always agendas going on and there are lots— always agendas going on and there are lots of— always agendas going on and there are lots of rumours _ always agendas going on and there are lots of rumours flying - always agendas going on and there are lots of rumours flying around . are lots of rumours flying around social— are lots of rumours flying around social media _ are lots of rumours flying around social media talking _ are lots of rumours flying around social media talking about - are lots of rumours flying around social media talking about dead. are lots of rumours flying around . social media talking about dead cats distracting _ social media talking about dead cats distracting us — social media talking about dead cats distracting us from _ social media talking about dead cats distracting us from this, _ social media talking about dead cats distracting us from this, that - social media talking about dead cats distracting us from this, that and . distracting us from this, that and the other. — distracting us from this, that and the other. i— distracting us from this, that and the other. i had _ distracting us from this, that and the other. i had spent _ distracting us from this, that and the other. i had spent 30 - distracting us from this, that and the other. i had spent 30 or- distracting us from this, that and the other. i had spent 30 or so. the other. i had spent 30 or so years— the other. i had spent 30 or so years in— the other. i had spent 30 or so years in the _ the other. i had spent 30 or so years in the business, - the other. i had spent 30 or so| years in the business, probably the other. i had spent 30 or so- years in the business, probablyjust a little _ years in the business, probablyjust a little bit _ years in the business, probablyjust a little bit less _

years in the business, probablyjust a little bit less than _ years in the business, probablyjust a little bit less than meal. - years in the business, probablyjust a little bit less than meal. i- years in the business, probablyjust a little bit less than meal. i am - a little bit less than meal. i am not sure — a little bit less than meal. i am not sure things _ a little bit less than meal. i am not sure things are _ a little bit less than meal. i am not sure things are that - not sure things are that well—organised. - not sure things are that well—organised. the - not sure things are that - well—organised. the political not sure things are that _ well—organised. the political views and stances — well—organised. the political views and stances play _ well—organised. the political views and stances play into _ well—organised. the political views and stances play into this - well—organised. the political views and stances play into this and - well—organised. the political viewsl and stances play into this and there has always— and stances play into this and there has always been— and stances play into this and there has always been an _ and stances play into this and there has always been an issue _ and stances play into this and there has always been an issue between. has always been an issue between printed _ has always been an issue between printed press— has always been an issue between printed press and _ has always been an issue between printed press and there _ has always been an issue between printed press and there are - has always been an issue between printed press and there are like i printed press and there are like presences— printed press and there are like presences and _ printed press and there are like presences and the _ printed press and there are like presences and the bbc- printed press and there are like presences and the bbc for- printed press and there are likei presences and the bbc for years printed press and there are like - presences and the bbc for years now as the _ presences and the bbc for years now as the bbc_ presences and the bbc for years now as the bbc has— presences and the bbc for years now as the bbc has moved _ presences and the bbc for years now as the bbc has moved online - presences and the bbc for years now as the bbc has moved online —— - as the bbc has moved online —— between — as the bbc has moved online —— between printed _ as the bbc has moved online —— between printed presses- as the bbc has moved online —— between printed presses and . as the bbc has moved online —— . between printed presses and their online _ between printed presses and their online presences. _ between printed presses and their online presences. it— between printed presses and their online presences. it is— between printed presses and their online presences. it is sort- between printed presses and their online presences. it is sort of- online presences. it is sort of threatening _ online presences. it is sort of threatening taking _ online presences. it is sort of threatening taking business i online presences. it is sort of- threatening taking business away from news — threatening taking business away from news organisations, - threatening taking business away from news organisations, so- threatening taking business awayl from news organisations, so there threatening taking business away . from news organisations, so there is that rivalry _ from news organisations, so there is that rivalry and — from news organisations, so there is that rivalry and sometimes - from news organisations, so there is that rivalry and sometimes no - from news organisations, so there is that rivalry and sometimes no lost . that rivalry and sometimes no lost between _ that rivalry and sometimes no lost between the — that rivalry and sometimes no lost between the bbc _ that rivalry and sometimes no lost between the bbc and _ that rivalry and sometimes no lost between the bbc and a _ that rivalry and sometimes no lost between the bbc and a licence - that rivalry and sometimes no lost between the bbc and a licence fee funded _ between the bbc and a licence fee funded organisation _ between the bbc and a licence fee funded organisation and _ between the bbc and a licence fee funded organisation and the - funded organisation and the commercial— funded organisation and the commercial demands - funded organisation and the | commercial demands placed funded organisation and the . commercial demands placed on funded organisation and the - commercial demands placed on the price. _ commercial demands placed on the price. do _ commercial demands placed on the rice. ,, ~' commercial demands placed on the .rice. i. ~ , commercial demands placed on the rice. i. ~ , ., price. do you think this will all fizzle out and _ price. do you think this will all fizzle out and it _ price. do you think this will all fizzle out and it will _ price. do you think this will all fizzle out and it will be - price. do you think this will all fizzle out and it will be back. price. do you think this will allj fizzle out and it will be back to work, back to business, move on? itaste work, back to business, move on? we alwa s work, back to business, move on? we always eventually move on. these

things _ always eventually move on. these things seem — always eventually move on. these things seem like _ always eventually move on. these things seem like a _ always eventually move on. these things seem like a massive - always eventually move on. these things seem like a massive crisis. always eventually move on. thesel things seem like a massive crisis at the time. _ things seem like a massive crisis at the time. but— things seem like a massive crisis at the time. but other— things seem like a massive crisis at the time. but other things- things seem like a massive crisis at the time. but other things happen, j the time. but other things happen, news happens. _ the time. but other things happen, news happens, other— the time. but other things happen, news happens, other events - the time. but other things happen, | news happens, other events happen the time. but other things happen, - news happens, other events happen to take our— news happens, other events happen to take our attention. _ news happens, other events happen to take ourattention. i— news happens, other events happen to take our attention. idon't— news happens, other events happen to take our attention. idon't think- news happens, other events happen to take our attention. idon't think it- take our attention. i don't think it willjust_ take our attention. i don't think it willjust disappear, _ take our attention. i don't think it willjust disappear, i— take our attention. idon't think it willjust disappear, i think- take our attention. i don't think itl willjust disappear, i think the bbc inquiry— willjust disappear, i think the bbc inquiry will— willjust disappear, i think the bbc inquiry will no _ willjust disappear, i think the bbc inquiry will no doubt _ willjust disappear, i think the bbc inquiry will no doubt continue - willjust disappear, i think the bbc inquiry will no doubt continue and i inquiry will no doubt continue and reach _ inquiry will no doubt continue and reach some — inquiry will no doubt continue and reach some sort _ inquiry will no doubt continue and reach some sort of— inquiry will no doubt continue and reach some sort of conclusion. i inquiry will no doubt continue and i reach some sort of conclusion. you have _ reach some sort of conclusion. you have to _ reach some sort of conclusion. you have to see — reach some sort of conclusion. you have to see what _ reach some sort of conclusion. you have to see what if— reach some sort of conclusion. you have to see what if anything - reach some sort of conclusion. you have to see what if anything the i have to see what if anything the metropolitan _ have to see what if anything the metropolitan police _ have to see what if anything the metropolitan police do - have to see what if anything the metropolitan police do with - have to see what if anything the metropolitan police do with the| metropolitan police do with the matter. — metropolitan police do with the matter. they— metropolitan police do with the matter, they are _ metropolitan police do with the matter, they are currently- metropolitan police do with the - matter, they are currently examining it to see _ matter, they are currently examining it to see whether _ matter, they are currently examining it to see whether there _ matter, they are currently examining it to see whether there will— matter, they are currently examining it to see whether there will be - matter, they are currently examining it to see whether there will be any. it to see whether there will be any further— it to see whether there will be any further investigation _ it to see whether there will be any further investigation so _ it to see whether there will be any further investigation so those - further investigation so those things— further investigation so those things had _ further investigation so those things had to _ further investigation so those things had to play— further investigation so those things had to play out. - further investigation so those things had to play out. i- further investigation so those j things had to play out. i think further investigation so those - things had to play out. i think we haven't_ things had to play out. i think we haven't heard _ things had to play out. i think we haven't heard all— things had to play out. i think we haven't heard all sides _ things had to play out. i think we haven't heard all sides of- things had to play out. i think we haven't heard all sides of the - haven't heard all sides of the story. — haven't heard all sides of the story. we _ haven't heard all sides of the story. we got _ haven't heard all sides of the story. we got a _ haven't heard all sides of the story. we got a hint- haven't heard all sides of the story. we got a hint of- haven't heard all sides of the story. we got a hint of it - haven't heard all sides of the - story. we got a hint of it yesterday from _ story. we got a hint of it yesterday from the _ story. we got a hint of it yesterday from the young _ story. we got a hint of it yesterday from the young person _ story. we got a hint of it yesterday from the young person and - story. we got a hint of it yesterday from the young person and the - from the young person and the statement _ from the young person and the statement issued _ from the young person and the statement issued but - from the young person and the statement issued but we - from the young person and the statement issued but we havel from the young person and the i statement issued but we have not heard _ statement issued but we have not heard from — statement issued but we have not heard from them, _ statement issued but we have not heard from them, as _ statement issued but we have not heard from them, as far- statement issued but we have not heard from them, as far as - statement issued but we have not heard from them, as far as i - statement issued but we have not heard from them, as far as i am l heard from them, as far as i am aware— heard from them, as far as i am aware they— heard from them, as far as i am aware they have _ heard from them, as far as i am aware they have not _ heard from them, as far as i am aware they have not been - heard from them, as far as i am - aware they have not been interviewed by any _ aware they have not been interviewed by any media — aware they have not been interviewed by any media as — aware they have not been interviewed by any media as yet _ aware they have not been interviewed by any media as yet and _ aware they have not been interviewed by any media as yet and clearly - aware they have not been interviewed by any media as yet and clearly they. by any media as yet and clearly they might— by any media as yet and clearly they might want— by any media as yet and clearly they might want to — by any media as yet and clearly they might want to do _ by any media as yet and clearly they might want to do that _ by any media as yet and clearly they

might want to do that under- might want to do that under conditions _ might want to do that under conditions of— might want to do that under conditions of anonymity. - might want to do that under- conditions of anonymity. crucially we have _ conditions of anonymity. crucially we have not— conditions of anonymity. crucially we have not heard _ conditions of anonymity. crucially we have not heard from - conditions of anonymity. crucially we have not heard from the - conditions of anonymity. crucially we have not heard from the bbc. we have not heard from the bbc presenter— we have not heard from the bbc presenter and _ we have not heard from the bbc presenter and they— we have not heard from the bbc presenter and they might - we have not heard from the bbc presenter and they might feel. we have not heard from the bbc. presenter and they might feel that if there _ presenter and they might feel that if there is— presenter and they might feel that if there is nothing _ presenter and they might feel that if there is nothing to _ presenter and they might feel that if there is nothing to this - presenter and they might feel that if there is nothing to this story, i if there is nothing to this story, why should _ if there is nothing to this story, why should they— if there is nothing to this story, why should they respond - if there is nothing to this story, why should they respond and l why should they respond and be forced _ why should they respond and be forced to— why should they respond and be forced to expose _ why should they respond and be forced to expose themselves . why should they respond and be forced to expose themselves to| why should they respond and be - forced to expose themselves to this. so there _ forced to expose themselves to this. so there are — forced to expose themselves to this. so there are lots _ forced to expose themselves to this. so there are lots of _ forced to expose themselves to this. so there are lots of things _ forced to expose themselves to this. so there are lots of things we - forced to expose themselves to this. so there are lots of things we don't i so there are lots of things we don't know— so there are lots of things we don't know in— so there are lots of things we don't know in this — so there are lots of things we don't know in this story. _ so there are lots of things we don't know in this story. lis _ so there are lots of things we don't know in this story.— know in this story. lis howell, former tv _ know in this story. lis howell, former tv executive, - know in this story. lis howell, former tv executive, if - know in this story. lis howell, former tv executive, if you i know in this story. lis howell, i former tv executive, if you were advising the presenter, what would you be saying to them right now? this is just my personal view, you be saying to them right now? this isjust my personal view, i think my advice would be to do the opposite of what david says that to actually come out and talk about it. if there is no case to answer and explain the situation. sorry? i think that would be the best thing

to do. it would be tough and difficult but this will hang around over this person's head and i think a better route would be to talk about it. . . ., a better route would be to talk about it. , ~ ., ., ., ., about it. get amol ra'an on the blower and h about it. get amol ra'an on the blower and sort _ about it. get amol ra'an on the blower and sort it _ about it. get amol rajan on the blower and sort it out? - about it. get amol rajan on the blower and sort it out? that - about it. get amol rajan on the blower and sort it out? that is i about it. get amol rajan on the . blower and sort it out? that is one wa , and blower and sort it out? that is one way. and it — blower and sort it out? that is one way, and it glances _ blower and sort it out? that is one way, and it glances the _ blower and sort it out? that is one way, and it glances the boil, - blower and sort it out? that is one way, and it glances the boil, to - way, and it glances the boil, to some extent?— way, and it glances the boil, to some extent? . ., ., ., . some extent? would that lance the boil, neil? some extent? would that lance the boil. neil? i— some extent? would that lance the boil, neil? ithink— some extent? would that lance the boil, neil? | think it _ some extent? would that lance the boil, neil? ! think it is probably- boil, neil? ithink it is probably the only real — boil, neil? ithink it is probably the only real way _ boil, neil? ithink it is probably the only real way forward. - boil, neil? ithink it is probably| the only real way forward. what boil, neil? i think it is probably- the only real way forward. what you can't _ the only real way forward. what you can't get _ the only real way forward. what you can't get away from, you touched on it before. _ can't get away from, you touched on it before, what is appropriate might notjust— it before, what is appropriate might notjust be — it before, what is appropriate might notjust be about it before, what is appropriate might not just be about what is legal but the appropriate behaviour of someone in that— the appropriate behaviour of someone in that position. can we just remember the basics? concerns parents. — remember the basics? concerns parents, crack addict teenager. allegedly. they allege. interestingly in the statement from the very— interestingly in the statement from the very expensive company of lawyers. — the very expensive company of lawyers, they do not deny that, they

do not _ lawyers, they do not deny that, they do not deny, as i expected, but 55.000 — do not deny, as i expected, but £35,000 has been channelled to a troubled _ £35,000 has been channelled to a troubled young person and that has been used. — troubled young person and that has been used, according to his concerned parents, for wrongful means. — concerned parents, for wrongful means. �* , ., , means. but if they are consenting adults, whatever _ means. but if they are consenting adults, whatever the _ means. but if they are consenting adults, whatever the situation - means. but if they are consenting | adults, whatever the situation may be, there are countless examples of age. if consenting adults are involved, what business is it of hours? if involved, what business is it of hours? , ., . involved, what business is it of hours? . . involved, what business is it of hours? ., ., , , hours? if you are a tv presenter, depending _ hours? if you are a tv presenter, depending on _ hours? if you are a tv presenter, depending on the _ hours? if you are a tv presenter, depending on the type _ hours? if you are a tv presenter, depending on the type of - hours? if you are a tv presenter, - depending on the type of programme you present, your credibility, how you present, your credibility, how you come — you present, your credibility, how you come across and your apparent position— you come across and your apparent position in— you come across and your apparent position in life really matters. if you are — position in life really matters. if you are presenting gardeners' world, you are presenting gardeners' world, you need _ you are presenting gardeners' world, you need to _ you are presenting gardeners' world, you need to be an expert can be seen to be _ you need to be an expert can be seen to be a _ you need to be an expert can be seen to be a reliable expert on

gardening. —— and be seen to be a reliable _ gardening. —— and be seen to be a reliable expert. that goes across the whole — reliable expert. that goes across the whole piece, whether it was all those _ the whole piece, whether it was all those people loudly rob lee brought into this. _ those people loudly rob lee brought into this. -- — those people loudly rob lee brought into this, —— all of those people incorrectly— into this, —— all of those people incorrectly brought into the search asjeremy— incorrectly brought into the search asjeremy vine and incorrectly brought into the search as jeremy vine and yourself, you have _ as jeremy vine and yourself, you have a _ as jeremy vine and yourself, you have a position and that is part of what _ have a position and that is part of what the — have a position and that is part of what the bbc is paying you for. if there _ what the bbc is paying you for. if there is— what the bbc is paying you for. if there is a — what the bbc is paying you for. if there is a great dichotomy between that on—screen appearance and events like the _ that on—screen appearance and events like the allegations made, then i think— like the allegations made, then i think that — like the allegations made, then i think that is of significance. but let us— think that is of significance. but let us please not forget the parents who have _ let us please not forget the parents who have acted, they would say, we had seen _ who have acted, they would say, we had seen no — who have acted, they would say, we had seen no evidence to the country, to defend _ had seen no evidence to the country, to defend their child. it is very sanctimonious to say nobody should be identified before final proof. life is _

be identified before final proof. life is not — be identified before final proof. life is not as black and white as that. _ life is not as black and white as that. ~ . , ., ., life is not as black and white as that. ~ . ., , ., �* that. whatever you do, shouldn't you be entitled. — that. whatever you do, shouldn't you be entitled, people _ that. whatever you do, shouldn't you be entitled, people are _ that. whatever you do, shouldn't you be entitled, people are arguing - that. whatever you do, shouldn't you be entitled, people are arguing it - be entitled, people are arguing it is completely irrelevant to what you do behind closed doors to what you do behind closed doors to what you do professionally? you can dress up as a penguin and go around the house singing opera. we will come to that. here are some texts. the sun story, suez and cuba were crises, this is not a crisis. stop feeding the sun narrative, says eric. the bbc is a publicly funded body, licence fee payers are entitled to know what is going on here that the recent record and not the recent record of the scandals and cover—ups. people would contend, in response to that. former editors and sub—editors talking about ethics, i heard it all now. we can talk about what matters, the nato summit, cluster munitions, mortgage rates, car, mortgage rates. the big mortgage lenders are

appearing before the treasury select committee later on and we will be hearing some of it and getting your views. this one, i enjoy the show, i think the presenter should come out and face the music if he has done nothing wrong. do you get in touch. the bbc presenter: what next? that is the question, looking forward to hearing from you. tim davie — the bbc director—general will face questions later for the first time — since an un—named bbc presenter was accused by the sun newspaper of paying tens of thousands of pounds to a teenager for explicit photos. the allegations — first reported by the sun — are expected to dominate an event to publish the bbc�*s yearly report.

a lawyer representing the young person says the claims are "rubbish" — but the sun says the persons family are standing by their account. mortgage rates have reached their highest level for 15—years. the average 2—year fixed rate has risen to 6.66 per cent — surpassing the level reached in the aftermath of liz truss's mini—budget. mps are to vote on changes to the illegal migration bill. amendments put forward by ministers include limiting detention periods for children and pregnant women. uk wages have risen at a record yearly rate fuelling fears inflation will stay higherfor longer. pay was 7.3% higher in the three months to may compared with the same time last year. but if you look at inflation in real terms — pay fell by 0.8%. novak djokovic will be in action on centre court later for the third day in a row at wimbledon.

the defending champion takes on andry rublev in the quarterfinals. after his fourth round match was interrupted by the 11pm curfew djokovic has urged wimbledon to rethink the start times on the show courts. also today — world number one iga swiatek, takes on ukraine's elina svitolina, who won a superb three—setter against victoria azarenka. britain-s — jonathan broom—edwards shared high jump gold with a polish rival at the para athletics world championships in paris. ashley young has agreed to join everton subject to a medical carried out today... the former manchester utd captain and england winger was a free agent after leaving aston villa this summer. and tottenham manager ange postecoglou says he will present his "vision" for the club to striker harry kane, when he returns for pre—season training later this week... kane's future is very much in the air, with bayern munich reportedly bidding for the england captain. kane is out of contract at the end of the forthcoming season.

good morning. judging from a loss of your text, this has actually morphed into a discussion on journalistic ethics. the bbc presenter: what next? conversation. it is a conversation... are former editor is absolutely right, it conversation happening all over the land and that is what we seek to reflect on this programme. what you're talking about... something else so many of you talking about. mortgages.

mortgage bosses: your reaction? this morning mortgage costs hit their highest level for 15 years. the average rate on a two year fixed deal is now 6.66% — a level not seen since august 2008 and the financial crisis. this has surpassed the peak hit in the aftermath of the mini budget in october last year when liz truss was pm. around quarter past ten this morning bank and building society bosses will face mps on the treasury committee. be interesting to hear what they have to say about the stress home owners are under and what they're doing to help. we'll bring you some of that live. bank and building bosses will face mps today. we'll bring you that live. we request you have a listen and respond to. mortgage bosses: your reaction?

cera in liverpool coming on, not a big fan of the sun. neil, former deputy editor of the sun, are you there? this is not a bbc setup. what would you like to say to neil, former deputy editor of the sun, making some interesting points about attacks on the sun, the bbc he says rather changing their tone and going on the front foot and all that stuff. what do you reckon? the bbc should be totally _ stuff. what do you reckon? the bbc should be totally transparent - stuff. what do you reckon? the bbc should be totally transparent down | should be totally transparent down the line and more to the point keep the line and more to the point keep the moral high ground, make sure everything is out there, what they

are doing, revealing no names of course, but yes, we are doing this, yes, we are doing that, yes it has been referred to whatever body, yes, we have done this that and the other all the way down the line just to make sure everyone knows what's going on. and when the results about the investigation has been revealed, then you can say something. but i know people will say, oh, i live in liverpool and of course i'm not going to like the sun, but i will be perfectly honest, having seen... right up until the second inquest into the hillsborough victims�* death, a bill that it was unlawful killing, i can safely say that i... no one in the city as much time for the sun and by extension news

international because of the way they behaved towards the victims and also by extension the city and also liverpool football club. i will be the first to admit that they were pretty hostile, to say the least. what about... pretty hostile, to say the least. what about. . ._ pretty hostile, to say the least. what about... ~ . ., , , ., what about... what about this story? some of the — what about... what about this story? some of the most _ what about... what about this story? some of the most memorable - what about... what about this story? . some of the most memorable phone-ins some of the most memorable phone—ins that i will never forget as long as i live were about that, devastating and heartbreaking. what about this particular issue? the guest of the heart and ethics ofjournalism? what do you think? to heart and ethics of “ournalism? what do you think?— do you think? to be perfectly honest, do you think? to be perfectly honest. as — do you think? to be perfectly honest. as l _ do you think? to be perfectly honest, as i say, _ do you think? to be perfectly honest, as i say, i— do you think? to be perfectly honest, as i say, i am - do you think? to be perfectly honest, as i say, i am not. do you think? to be perfectly i honest, as i say, i am not overly cut a big fan of the red top. you have said _ cut a big fan of the red top. you have said that. _ cut a big fan of the red top. you have said that. what did the sunday wrong in your opinion? element to be perfectly honest, i�*m

wrong in your opinion? element to be perfectly honest, ...— perfectly honest, i'm trying to kee- perfectly honest, i'm trying to kee it perfectly honest, i'm trying to keep it polite. — perfectly honest, i'm trying to keep it polite. if _ perfectly honest, i'm trying to keep it polite, if you _ perfectly honest, i'm trying to keep it polite, if you want - perfectly honest, i'm trying to keep it polite, if you want to i perfectly honest, i'm trying to| keep it polite, if you want to know the truth. i think the problem is... did they double—check their sources? let me put that to neil? it�*s a good one, double checking sources. neil, as an editor, would this have happened?— as an editor, would this have ha-oened? , , ., , ., , happened? this story will have been checked and — happened? this story will have been checked and checked _ happened? this story will have been checked and checked and _ happened? this story will have been checked and checked and checked . checked and checked and checked again— checked and checked and checked again and — checked and checked and checked again and we are any different media nowas— again and we are any different media now as you _ again and we are any different media now as you well know from the events of even _ now as you well know from the events of even just _ now as you well know from the events of even just 20 years ago. the idea that you _ of even just 20 years ago. the idea that you can— of even just 20 years ago. the idea that you canjust of even just 20 years ago. the idea that you can just whack a story in the paper— that you can just whack a story in the paper now isjust that you can just whack a story in the paper now is just far—fetched, 'ust the paper now is just far—fetched, just does— the paper now is just far—fetched, just does not happen because, frankly. — just does not happen because, frankly. it _ just does not happen because, frankly, it is too dangerous, it is too easy— frankly, it is too dangerous, it is too easy to _ frankly, it is too dangerous, it is too easy to get legal redress against you. it is too easy to be

silenced. — against you. it is too easy to be silenced. the press are usually hit by privacy— silenced. the press are usually hit by privacy injunctions about stories that once _ by privacy injunctions about stories that once were commonplace, so what i do that once were commonplace, so what i do know— that once were commonplace, so what i do know about the story is that these _ i do know about the story is that these people went, these parents went to _ these people went, these parents went to the sun in desperation after not getting any satisfaction about going _ not getting any satisfaction about going to — not getting any satisfaction about going to the bbc and making a very serious _ going to the bbc and making a very serious complaint. to going to the bbc and making a very serious complaint.— serious complaint. to go to the sun... serious complaint. to go to the sun- -- maybe _ serious complaint. to go to the sun... maybe they _ serious complaint. to go to the sun... maybe they are - serious complaint. to go to the sun... maybe they are sun i serious complaint. to go to the i sun... maybe they are sun readers, sim-le as sun... maybe they are sun readers, simple as that- _ sun... maybe they are sun readers, simple as that. and _ sun... maybe they are sun readers, simple as that. and maybe - sun... maybe they are sun readers, simple as that. and maybe because sun... maybe they are sun readers, l simple as that. and maybe because it is still— simple as that. and maybe because it is still probably the best—known paper— is still probably the best—known paper in— is still probably the best—known paper in fleet street. but the vital point _ paper in fleet street. but the vital point as— paper in fleet street. but the vital point as you well know, they have never _ point as you well know, they have never asked nor been paid any money whatsoever. _ never asked nor been paid any money whatsoever. this was about a way, they say. _ whatsoever. this was about a way, they say, and no one has yet then said this. — they say, and no one has yet then said this. to— they say, and no one has yet then said this, to protect their child

from _ said this, to protect their child from an— said this, to protect their child from an intolerable situation. i do not believe — from an intolerable situation. i do not believe for one second that they will have _ not believe for one second that they will have done anything other than given— will have done anything other than given this — will have done anything other than given this the most rigorous legal scrutiny— given this the most rigorous legal scrutiny because frankly it is too dangerous — scrutiny because frankly it is too dangerous not to.— dangerous not to. things have chanced, dangerous not to. things have changed, haven't _ dangerous not to. things have changed, haven't they? - dangerous not to. things have changed, haven't they? when| dangerous not to. things have i changed, haven't they? when we dangerous not to. things have - changed, haven't they? when we were changed, haven�*t they? when we were a lot younger, we remember people were named with abandon, weren�*t they? when they arrested, i�*m not making any comparisons about the risks that they take or take back then, when they arrested peter sutcliffe, the so—called yorkshire ripper, it was a front page of his picture, got him! it was outrageous then, and he may be had not been charged at that point but it was very prejudicial. and now you regularly get... show business and

sport, people werejust regularly get... show business and sport, people were just name then that you regularly get top footballer, silhouette, top actor, silhouette. so what has changed? the demand silhouette. so what has changed? tie: demand for silhouette. so what has changed? tte: demand for privacy is changed and the realisation of how damaging these claims can be in the paper has made people react and fight more for privacy and also the legal professions take more of an interest, so no privacy is big business and protecting people is big business. 0n the downside sometimes injunctions have taken anything afterwards that was the rich asserting their privilege, but on the good side it does protect people from deformation, which has to be right. the landscape has changed and we are very clear about that, everybody knows that. in the old days the attitudes to be, is it true? well the super smack and if they do, can we afford it? and that they do, can we afford it? and that the saudi newspapers operated. if you put on and off circulation to pay the cost of the deformation action was worth it. also there is

less circulation, less cash coming from the reader and more from advertisers and advertisers are vital, the advertisers are less interested in being involved with or tacky sleaze stories and so the purpose of sort of cleaned up their act because that is another source of the income so it has really changed a great deal, yes. and journalism itself has changed. it used to be a sort of slightly rough neck hack, sort of guys out there smoking lots and having lots of drinks and making lots of allegations and so on, and it has changed. journalists and media exchange itself. one thing we have not mentioned, the elephant in the room, a social media. social media has been a big part of that, you know this because you have social media over the story, privacy and defamation and so on, it is being undone by the horrendous mess of social media, and the trouble with

social media, and the trouble with social media, and the trouble with social media is technically of course you can be done for defamation if you say something terrible and wrong about somebody in social media, but you cannot be found. it is the same as the doe person in private eye, they have a tag that means nothing and can be found. t tag that means nothing and can be found. . , .., tag that means nothing and can be found-_ now - tag that means nothing and can be found._ now with i found. i hear they can. now with ber found. i hear they can. now with cyber intelligence _ found. i hear they can. now with cyber intelligence is _ found. i hear they can. now with cyber intelligence is getting i found. i hear they can. now with cyber intelligence is getting a i found. i hear they can. now with j cyber intelligence is getting a lot better, it�*s a big dealfinding them, expense of finding them and when you do they may not have the money to pay a defamation action, so something is going to have to break. the platforms are going to have to take more responsibility. fine the platforms are going to have to take more responsibility.— the platforms are going to have to take more responsibility. one of the thins take more responsibility. one of the thin . s that take more responsibility. one of the things that are _ take more responsibility. one of the things that are interesting _ take more responsibility. one of the things that are interesting as - take more responsibility. one of the things that are interesting as one i things that are interesting as one discovers as one was about one�*s one of the first things a libel lawyer will check is whether whether they own the property. will check is whether whether they own the property-—

will check is whether whether they own the property. yes, so they can -a off. own the property. yes, so they can pay off- so — own the property. yes, so they can pay off- so they — own the property. yes, so they can pay off- so they can _ own the property. yes, so they can pay off. so they can sell it. - own the property. yes, so they can pay off. so they can sell it. i - pay off. so they can sell it. i don't want _ pay off. so they can sell it. i don't want to _ pay off. so they can sell it. i don't want to sound - pay off. so they can sell it. i don't want to sound too i pay off. so they can sell it. i i don't want to sound too cynical, pay off. so they can sell it. i - don't want to sound too cynical, but don�*t want to sound too cynical, but one of the reasons this is important is because there�*s big money on it, and the geisha back to the question of the lawyers involved with the young person. i don�*t know why we are not naming the lawyer but we are not naming the lawyer. fine are not naming the lawyer but we are not naming the lawyer.— are not naming the lawyer but we are not naming the lawyer. one they must orotect that not naming the lawyer. one they must protect that we — not naming the lawyer. one they must protect that we don't _ not naming the lawyer. one they must protect that we don't know _ not naming the lawyer. one they must protect that we don't know the - not naming the lawyer. one they must protect that we don't know the name i protect that we don�*t know the name of the lawyer, we know that that lawyer comes at a pretty price. neil, these are all interesting points and cliff richard, the bbc behaved despicably, that was a real turning point, wasn�*t it? yes. behaved despicably, that was a real turning point, wasn't it?— turning point, wasn't it? yes, it was. it turning point, wasn't it? yes, it was- it was— turning point, wasn't it? yes, it was. it was huge _ turning point, wasn't it? yes, it was. it was huge because i turning point, wasn't it? yes, it was. it was huge because the i turning point, wasn't it? yes, it. was. it was huge because the bbc turning point, wasn't it? yes, it- was. it was huge because the bbc at that time _ was. it was huge because the bbc at that time basically had a brain meltdown, unfortunately. but that does have, continues to have

ripples. — does have, continues to have ripples, effects, and the reason that this — ripples, effects, and the reason that this presenter has not been named _ that this presenter has not been named is— that this presenter has not been named is largely because of richard. that's— named is largely because of richard. that's totally understandable. you look at _ that's totally understandable. you look at what happened to him and it was a _ look at what happened to him and it was a disgraceful abuse. then again, do you _ was a disgraceful abuse. then again, do you remember all those five people — do you remember all those five people who were accused of child abuse _ people who were accused of child abuse by— people who were accused of child abuse by carl beech, i think his name _ abuse by carl beech, i think his name was. _ abuse by carl beech, i think his name was, and he was named in parliament. _ name was, and he was named in parliament. tom watson, an mp at the time. _ parliament. tom watson, an mp at the time. who— parliament. tom watson, an mp at the time, who hear starmer has since promoted — time, who hear starmer has since promoted to the lords, he abused parliamentary privilege, named a whole _ parliamentary privilege, named a whole group of very famous people, it them _ whole group of very famous people, it them of— whole group of very famous people, it them of child abuse, who have all since _ it them of child abuse, who have all since been — it them of child abuse, who have all since been cleared, except most of them _ since been cleared, except most of them are _ since been cleared, except most of them are dead, so they went to their graves _ them are dead, so they went to their graves besmirched. things have changed. — graves besmirched. things have changed, and that is good. it is a

very— changed, and that is good. it is a very difficult path that the bbc have _ very difficult path that the bbc have to — very difficult path that the bbc have to walk year, and i think that what _ have to walk year, and i think that what they— have to walk year, and i think that what they have to do is be very careful. — what they have to do is be very careful. in— what they have to do is be very careful, in this whole scenario they need _ careful, in this whole scenario they need to— careful, in this whole scenario they need to keep at the back of their minds _ need to keep at the back of their minds the — need to keep at the back of their minds the words ofjimmy savile, because _ minds the words ofjimmy savile, because how the initially handled jimmy— because how the initially handled jimmy savile, not comparing the allegations made against both but the way— allegations made against both but the way they handled jimmy savile was protect and the protected of themselves for doing what was right, and so _ themselves for doing what was right, and so they— themselves for doing what was right, and so they need to tread a very fine line — and so they need to tread a very fine line here, most of this coverage _ fine line here, most of this coverage in the bbc seem to me has been simply excellent. why might we have somebody who wants to talk about _ have somebody who wants to talk about that very thing you spoke about. — about that very thing you spoke about, years to come when the tone was written — about, years to come when the tone was written about the history of the bbc, was written about the history of the bbc. the _

was written about the history of the bbc, the savile affair will be at least _ bbc, the savile affair will be at least a — bbc, the savile affair will be at least a chapter. i bbc, the savile affair will be at least a chapter.— bbc, the savile affair will be at least a chapter. i was one of the women who _ least a chapter. i was one of the women who exposed _ least a chapter. i was one of the women who exposed jimmy i least a chapter. i was one of the i women who exposed jimmy savile. i think women who exposed jimmy savile. think you are incredibly brave and it must have been, when you saw him on the television being f ted and lauded for all his charitable works, you must have been raging. filth. lauded for all his charitable works, you must have been raging. oh, yes, we were absolutely _ you must have been raging. oh, yes, we were absolutely raging, _ you must have been raging. oh, yes, we were absolutely raging, i - you must have been raging. oh, yes, we were absolutely raging, i was i you must have been raging. oh, yes, we were absolutely raging, i was not| we were absolutely raging, i was not the only— we were absolutely raging, i was not the only person _ we were absolutely raging, i was not the only person. most _ we were absolutely raging, i was not the only person. most of _ we were absolutely raging, i was not the only person. most of the - we were absolutely raging, i was not the only person. most of the girls. the only person. most of the girls wear— the only person. most of the girls wear and — the only person. most of the girls wear and because _ the only person. most of the girls wear and because of— the only person. most of the girls wear and because of his - the only person. most of the girls wear and because of his actions, i wear and because of his actions, yes, _ wear and because of his actions, yes, we — wear and because of his actions, yes, we did _ wear and because of his actions, yes, we did go— wear and because of his actions, yes, we did go to— wear and because of his actions, yes, we did go to the _ wear and because of his actions, yes, we did go to the police - wear and because of his actions, i yes, we did go to the police first, and i_ yes, we did go to the police first, and i think— yes, we did go to the police first, and i think i— yes, we did go to the police first, and i think i must— yes, we did go to the police first, and i think i must have _ yes, we did go to the police first, and i think i must have spent - yes, we did go to the police first, l and i think i must have spent about 20 years— and i think i must have spent about 20 years of— and i think i must have spent about 20 years of my _ and i think i must have spent about 20 years of my life _ and i think i must have spent about 20 years of my life trying _ and i think i must have spent about 20 years of my life trying to - and i think i must have spent about} 20 years of my life trying to expose this man _ 20 years of my life trying to expose this man and — 20 years of my life trying to expose this man and nobody _ 20 years of my life trying to expose this man and nobody would - 20 years of my life trying to expose this man and nobody would listen l 20 years of my life trying to exposel this man and nobody would listen to us. this man and nobody would listen to us and _ this man and nobody would listen to us and it— this man and nobody would listen to us and it wasn't— this man and nobody would listen to us. and it wasn't until— this man and nobody would listen to us. and it wasn't until the _ this man and nobody would listen to us. and it wasn't until the bbc- us. and it wasn't until the bbc actually— us. and it wasn't until the bbc actually did _ us. and it wasn't until the bbc actually did approaches, - us. and it wasn't until the bbc actually did approaches, i- us. and it wasn't until the bbci actually did approaches, i think us. and it wasn't until the bbc- actually did approaches, i think his name _ actually did approaches, i think his name was — actually did approaches, i think his name was mero _ actually did approaches, i think his name was merojones, _ actually did approaches, i think his name was merojones, for- actually did approaches, i think his -

name was merojones, for newsnight, they were _ name was merojones, for newsnight, they were going — name was merojones, for newsnight, they were going to _ name was merojones, for newsnight, they were going to do _ name was merojones, for newsnight, they were going to do a _ name was merojones, for newsnight, they were going to do a ten _ name was merojones, for newsnight, they were going to do a ten minute . they were going to do a ten minute segment— they were going to do a ten minute segment on— they were going to do a ten minute segment onjimmy_ they were going to do a ten minute segment on jimmy savile _ they were going to do a ten minute segment on jimmy savile and - they were going to do a ten minute . segment on jimmy savile and expose him but _ segment on jimmy savile and expose him but then— segment on jimmy savile and expose him but then the _ segment on jimmy savile and expose him but then the bbc— segment on jimmy savile and expose him but then the bbc came _ segment on jimmy savile and expose him but then the bbc came out - segment on jimmy savile and expose him but then the bbc came out with. him but then the bbc came out with their christmas— him but then the bbc came out with their christmas schedules _ him but then the bbc came out with their christmas schedules and - him but then the bbc came out with their christmas schedules and what| their christmas schedules and what happened. — their christmas schedules and what happened. i— their christmas schedules and what happened. i really— their christmas schedules and what happened, i really don't _ their christmas schedules and what happened, i really don't know, - their christmas schedules and what happened, i really don't know, and| their christmas schedules and whatl happened, i really don't know, and i don't _ happened, i really don't know, and i don't care _ happened, i really don't know, and i don't care that — happened, i really don't know, and i don't care that much _ happened, i really don't know, and i don't care that much about, - happened, i really don't know, and i don't care that much about, what i don't care that much about, what does _ don't care that much about, what does bother— don't care that much about, what does bother me _ don't care that much about, what does bother me a _ don't care that much about, what does bother me a little _ don't care that much about, what does bother me a little bit- don't care that much about, what does bother me a little bit now. don't care that much about, what does bother me a little bit now is don't care that much about, what. does bother me a little bit now is i think— does bother me a little bit now is i think the _ does bother me a little bit now is i think the bbc_ does bother me a little bit now is i think the bbc is— does bother me a little bit now is i think the bbc is walking _ does bother me a little bit now is i think the bbc is walking on - does bother me a little bit now is i think the bbc is walking on egg. think the bbc is walking on egg shetts _ think the bbc is walking on egg shells because _ think the bbc is walking on egg shells because they _ think the bbc is walking on egg shells because they are - think the bbc is walking on egg shells because they are very i shells because they are very concerned _ shells because they are very concerned that— shells because they are very concerned that they - shells because they are very concerned that they don't i shells because they are very . concerned that they don't want shells because they are very - concerned that they don't want this to happen — concerned that they don't want this to happen again _ concerned that they don't want this to happen again. but _ concerned that they don't want this to happen again. but when - concerned that they don't want this to happen again. but when we - to happen again. but when we comptained _ to happen again. but when we complained to _ to happen again. but when we complained to the _ to happen again. but when we complained to the bbc- to happen again. but when we complained to the bbc it - to happen again. but when we complained to the bbc it wasi to happen again. but when we - complained to the bbc it was made very clear— complained to the bbc it was made very clear to — complained to the bbc it was made very clear to us _ complained to the bbc it was made very clear to us that _ complained to the bbc it was made very clear to us that the _ complained to the bbc it was made very clear to us that the actual- very clear to us that the actual person— very clear to us that the actual person would _ very clear to us that the actual person would not _ very clear to us that the actual person would not be _ very clear to us that the actual person would not be named i very clear to us that the actual. person would not be named and i think— person would not be named and i think it _ person would not be named and i think it is — person would not be named and i think it is quite _ person would not be named and i think it is quite correct _ person would not be named and i think it is quite correct now- person would not be named and i think it is quite correct now that i think it is quite correct now that the person— think it is quite correct now that the person is— think it is quite correct now that the person is not— think it is quite correct now that the person is not named. - think it is quite correct now that l the person is not named. because think it is quite correct now that - the person is not named. because she hasn't _ the person is not named. because she hasn't committed _ the person is not named. because she hasn't committed or— the person is not named. because she hasn't committed or they _ the person is not named. because she hasn't committed or they haven't - hasn't committed or they haven't committed — hasn't committed or they haven't committed a _ hasn't committed or they haven't committed a criminal— hasn't committed or they haven't committed a criminal offence - hasn't committed or they haven't committed a criminal offence at. hasn't committed or they haven't i committed a criminal offence at all, and if— committed a criminal offence at all, and if this— committed a criminal offence at all, and if this is— committed a criminal offence at all, and if this is what _ committed a criminal offence at all, and if this is what they _ committed a criminal offence at all, and if this is what they choose - committed a criminal offence at all, and if this is what they choose to i and if this is what they choose to do in _ and if this is what they choose to do in their— and if this is what they choose to do in their personal— and if this is what they choose to do in their personal life, - and if this is what they choose to do in their personal life, that - and if this is what they choose to do in their personal life, that is i do in their personal life, that is fine lry— do in their personal life, that is fine try me _ do in their personal life, that is fine try me. they— do in their personal life, that is fine by me. they are _ do in their personal life, that is fine by me. they are not - do in their personal life, that is . fine by me. they are not affecting me, fine by me. they are not affecting me. and _ fine by me. they are not affecting me. and i— fine by me. they are not affecting

me, and i think— fine by me. they are not affecting me, and i think the _ fine by me. they are not affecting me, and i think the bbc— fine by me. they are not affecting me, and i think the bbc is - fine by me. they are not affecting me, and i think the bbc is very. me, and i think the bbc is very concerned _ me, and i think the bbc is very concerned after— me, and i think the bbc is very concerned after other- me, and i think the bbc is very. concerned after other presenters me, and i think the bbc is very- concerned after other presenters and people _ concerned after other presenters and people were — concerned after other presenters and people were named. _ concerned after other presenters and people were named. i— concerned after other presenters and people were named, ithink- concerned after other presenters and people were named, i think it- concerned after other presenters and people were named, i think it was. people were named, i think it was operation — people were named, i think it was operation you _ people were named, i think it was operation you tree, _ people were named, i think it was operation you tree, anti—to - people were named, i think it was operation you tree, anti—to me i people were named, i think it was| operation you tree, anti—to me are turned _ operation you tree, anti—to me are turned into— operation you tree, anti—to me are turned into a — operation you tree, anti—to me are turned into a little _ operation you tree, anti—to me are turned into a little bit— operation you tree, anti—to me are turned into a little bit of— operation you tree, anti—to me are turned into a little bit of a - turned into a little bit of a witchhunt. _ turned into a little bit of a witchhunt, if _ turned into a little bit of a witchhunt, if i'm - turned into a little bit of a witchhunt, if i'm honest. i turned into a little bit of a . witchhunt, if i'm honest. and turned into a little bit of a - witchhunt, if i'm honest. and when we finally— witchhunt, if i'm honest. and when we finally did — witchhunt, if i'm honest. and when we finally did manage _ witchhunt, if i'm honest. and when we finally did manage to _ witchhunt, if i'm honest. and when we finally did manage to expose i we finally did manage to expose jimmy— we finally did manage to expose jimmy sav— we finally did manage to expose jimmy sav on _ we finally did manage to expose jimmy sav on 2012, _ we finally did manage to expose jimmy sav on 2012, yes, - we finally did manage to expose jimmy sav on 2012, yes, he - we finally did manage to expose jimmy sav on 2012, yes, he was| we finally did manage to expose - jimmy sav on 2012, yes, he was dead, but i thought — jimmy sav on 2012, yes, he was dead, but i thought it — jimmy sav on 2012, yes, he was dead, but i thought it would _ jimmy sav on 2012, yes, he was dead, but i thought it would be _ jimmy sav on 2012, yes, he was dead, but i thought it would be tomorrow's i but i thought it would be tomorrow's fish and _ but i thought it would be tomorrow's fish and chip— but i thought it would be tomorrow's fish and chip wrappers _ but i thought it would be tomorrow's fish and chip wrappers if _ but i thought it would be tomorrow's fish and chip wrappers if i'm - fish and chip wrappers if i'm honest. _ fish and chip wrappers if i'm honest. the _ fish and chip wrappers if i'm honest, the programme - fish and chip wrappers if i'm. honest, the programme went fish and chip wrappers if i'm - honest, the programme went out at something _ honest, the programme went out at something like _ honest, the programme went out at something like 11:15— honest, the programme went out at something like 11:15 at _ honest, the programme went out at something like 11:15 at night, - honest, the programme went out at something like 11:15 at night, i- something like 11:15 at night, i didn't— something like 11:15 at night, i didn't expect _ something like 11:15 at night, i didn't expect anybody - something like 11:15 at night, i didn't expect anybody to - something like 11:15 at night, i| didn't expect anybody to watch something like 11:15 at night, i- didn't expect anybody to watch it, and for— didn't expect anybody to watch it, and for nearly— didn't expect anybody to watch it, and for nearly a _ didn't expect anybody to watch it, and for nearly a month _ didn't expect anybody to watch it, and for nearly a month it- didn't expect anybody to watch it, and for nearly a month it was - didn't expect anybody to watch it, and for nearly a month it was on i didn't expect anybody to watch it, i and for nearly a month it was on all the newspapers _ and for nearly a month it was on all the newspapers and _ and for nearly a month it was on all the newspapers and the _ and for nearly a month it was on all the newspapers and the front - and for nearly a month it was on all| the newspapers and the front pages and everything _ the newspapers and the front pages and everything like _ the newspapers and the front pages and everything like this, _ the newspapers and the front pages and everything like this, how- the newspapers and the front pages and everything like this, how did . and everything like this, how did they miss — and everything like this, how did they miss this? _ and everything like this, how did they miss this? and _ and everything like this, how did they miss this? and he - and everything like this, how did they miss this? and he was - and everything like this, how did i they miss this? and he was hiding and everything like this, how did - they miss this? and he was hiding in plain sight— they miss this? and he was hiding in plain sight and — they miss this? and he was hiding in plain sight and how— they miss this? and he was hiding in plain sight and how everybody - they miss this? and he was hiding in} plain sight and how everybody knew. if everybody — plain sight and how everybody knew. if everybody knew, _ plain sight and how everybody knew. if everybody knew, why— plain sight and how everybody knew. if everybody knew, why didn't - if everybody knew, why didn't somebody— if everybody knew, why didn't somebody do _ if everybody knew, why didn't somebody do something - if everybody knew, why didn'tl somebody do something about if everybody knew, why didn't i somebody do something about it before? — somebody do something about it before? i— somebody do something about it before? ithink— somebody do something about it before? i think it— somebody do something about it before? i think it was _ somebody do something about it before? i think it was because i somebody do something about it . before? i think it was because they were _ before? i think it was because they were too— before? i think it was because they were too scared _ before? i think it was because they were too scared to, _ before? i think it was because they were too scared to, because - before? i think it was because they were too scared to, because of - before? i think it was because they|

were too scared to, because of who he was _ were too scared to, because of who he was and — were too scared to, because of who he was and the _ were too scared to, because of who he was and the laws _ were too scared to, because of who he was and the laws of _ were too scared to, because of who he was and the laws of libel- were too scared to, because of who he was and the laws of libel and - he was and the laws of libel and everything — he was and the laws of libel and everything like _ he was and the laws of libel and everything like that, _ he was and the laws of libel and everything like that, but- he was and the laws of libel and everything like that, but if- he was and the laws of libel and everything like that, but if we . everything like that, but if we could — everything like that, but if we could not— everything like that, but if we could not expose _ everything like that, but if we could not expose jimmy - everything like that, but if wei could not expose jimmy savile everything like that, but if we - could not expose jimmy savile all those _ could not expose jimmy savile all those years — could not expose jimmy savile all those years ago _ could not expose jimmy savile all those years ago and _ could not expose jimmy savile all those years ago and the - could not expose jimmy savile all those years ago and the jimmy. could not expose jimmy savile all. those years ago and the jimmy savile did commit— those years ago and the jimmy savile did commit a — those years ago and the jimmy savile did commit a criminal— those years ago and the jimmy savile did commit a criminal offence, - those years ago and the jimmy savile did commit a criminal offence, this. did commit a criminal offence, this person— did commit a criminal offence, this person has— did commit a criminal offence, this person has not— did commit a criminal offence, this person has not committed - did commit a criminal offence, this person has not committed as - did commit a criminal offence, this person has not committed as far. did commit a criminal offence, this| person has not committed as far as we know— person has not committed as far as we know a — person has not committed as far as we know a criminal— person has not committed as far as we know a criminal offence, - person has not committed as far as we know a criminal offence, and i. we know a criminal offence, and i have _ we know a criminal offence, and i have to _ we know a criminal offence, and i have to question _ we know a criminal offence, and i have to question the _ we know a criminal offence, and i have to question the fact - we know a criminal offence, and i have to question the fact of - we know a criminal offence, and i. have to question the fact of comedy first place _ have to question the fact of comedy first place we — have to question the fact of comedy first place we went _ have to question the fact of comedy first place we went was _ have to question the fact of comedy first place we went was the - have to question the fact of comedy first place we went was the police, i first place we went was the police, so why— first place we went was the police, so why did — first place we went was the police, so why did these _ first place we went was the police, so why did these people _ first place we went was the police, so why did these people choose i first place we went was the police, l so why did these people choose the newspapers — so why did these people choose the newspapers or— so why did these people choose the newspapers or his _ so why did these people choose the newspapers or his employer- so why did these people choose the newspapers or his employer or- newspapers or his employer or whatever? _ newspapers or his employer or whatever? why— newspapers or his employer or whatever? why did _ newspapers or his employer or whatever? why did they - newspapers or his employer or whatever? why did they not i newspapers or his employer or| whatever? why did they not go newspapers or his employer or. whatever? why did they not go to newspapers or his employer or- whatever? why did they not go to the police _ whatever? why did they not go to the police first? _ whatever? why did they not go to the police first? to — whatever? why did they not go to the police first? to me _ whatever? why did they not go to the police first? to me it _ whatever? why did they not go to the police first? to me it is _ whatever? why did they not go to the police first? to me it is all— whatever? why did they not go to the police first? to me it is all very- police first? to me it is all very strange — police first? to me it is all very strange and _ police first? to me it is all very strange and i— police first? to me it is all very strange and i hate _ police first? to me it is all very strange and i hate to— police first? to me it is all very strange and i hate to say, - police first? to me it is all very strange and i hate to say, but ii strange and i hate to say, but i think— strange and i hate to say, but i think it's — strange and i hate to say, but i think it's a _ strange and i hate to say, but i think it's a bit _ strange and i hate to say, but i think it's a bit of— strange and i hate to say, but i think it's a bit of a _ strange and i hate to say, but i think it's a bit of a storm - strange and i hate to say, but i think it's a bit of a storm in - strange and i hate to say, but i think it's a bit of a storm in a l think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup. — think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup, because _ think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup, because i— think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup, because i feel- think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup, because i feel the i think it's a bit of a storm in a l teacup, because i feel the the think it's a bit of a storm in a - teacup, because i feel the the way we were _ teacup, because i feel the the way we were treated _ teacup, because i feel the the way we were treated all _ teacup, because i feel the the way we were treated all those - teacup, because i feel the the way we were treated all those years i teacup, because i feel the the way. we were treated all those years ago and people — we were treated all those years ago and peopte are _ we were treated all those years ago and people are now— we were treated all those years ago and people are now saying - we were treated all those years ago and people are now saying that - we were treated all those years ago and people are now saying that wasi and people are now saying that was wrong, _ and people are now saying that was wrong, they— and people are now saying that was wrong, they should _ and people are now saying that was wrong, they should have _ and people are now saying that was wrong, they should have listened . and people are now saying that was| wrong, they should have listened to you or _ wrong, they should have listened to you or whatever, _ wrong, they should have listened to you or whatever, that _ wrong, they should have listened to you or whatever, that was _ wrong, they should have listened to you or whatever, that was the - wrong, they should have listened to you or whatever, that was the way i you or whatever, that was the way things— you or whatever, that was the way things were — you or whatever, that was the way things were a— you or whatever, that was the way things were a pat— you or whatever, that was the way things were. a pat on— you or whatever, that was the way things were. a pat on the - you or whatever, that was the way

things were. a pat on the bum - you or whatever, that was the way| things were. a pat on the bum was acceptable — things were. a pat on the bum was acceptable back— things were. a pat on the bum was acceptable back in _ things were. a pat on the bum was acceptable back in the _ things were. a pat on the bum was acceptable back in the 70s - things were. a pat on the bum was acceptable back in the 70s and - things were. a pat on the bum was. acceptable back in the 70s and 80s, it is totally— acceptable back in the 70s and 80s, it is totally unacceptable _ acceptable back in the 70s and 80s, it is totally unacceptable now, - acceptable back in the 70s and 80s, it is totally unacceptable now, so i it is totally unacceptable now, so things— it is totally unacceptable now, so things change _ it is totally unacceptable now, so things change in— it is totally unacceptable now, so things change in society, - it is totally unacceptable now, so things change in society, but - it is totally unacceptable now, so things change in society, but i i things change in society, but i don't — things change in society, but i don't understand _ things change in society, but i don't understand why - things change in society, but i don't understand why this - things change in society, but i don't understand why this has| things change in society, but i - don't understand why this has blown up don't understand why this has blown up into— don't understand why this has blown up into some — don't understand why this has blown up into some great _ don't understand why this has blown up into some great big _ don't understand why this has blown up into some great big who - don't understand why this has blown up into some great big who have. i don't understand why this has blown| up into some great big who have. so what if— up into some great big who have. so what if somebody— up into some great big who have. so what if somebody has _ up into some great big who have. so what if somebody has done - what if somebody has done sonrething~~~ _ what if somebody has done something. . .— what if somebody has done something. . .- yeah, | what if somebody has done - something. . .- yeah, that the something... legal. yeah, that the oint. is something... legal. yeah, that the point- is it — something. .. legal. yeah, that the point. is it illegal— something... legal. yeah, that the point. is it illegal what _ something... legal. yeah, that the point. is it illegal what he - something... legal. yeah, that the point. is it illegalwhat he has - point. is it illegal what he has done? — point. is it illegal what he has done? they— point. is it illegal what he has done? they are _ point. is it illegal what he has done? they are seeing - point. is it illegal what he has done? they are seeing this. point. is it illegal what he has - done? they are seeing this person was 17 _ done? they are seeing this person was 17 when — done? they are seeing this person was 17 when it _ done? they are seeing this person was 17 when it first _ done? they are seeing this person was 17 when it first started, - done? they are seeing this person was 17 when it first started, well, i was 17 when it first started, well, it is not— was 17 when it first started, well, it is not as — was 17 when it first started, well, it is not as if— was 17 when it first started, well, it is not as if they— was 17 when it first started, well, it is not as if they were _ was 17 when it first started, well, it is not as if they were a - was 17 when it first started, well, it is not as if they were a child. . it is not as if they were a child. and _ it is not as if they were a child. and why— it is not as if they were a child. and why have _ it is not as if they were a child. and why have the _ it is not as if they were a child. and why have the parents - it is not as if they were a child. - and why have the parents suddenly chosen _ and why have the parents suddenly chosen to _ and why have the parents suddenly chosen to speak— and why have the parents suddenly chosen to speak out _ and why have the parents suddenly chosen to speak out now? - and why have the parents suddenly chosen to speak out now? why- and why have the parents suddenly chosen to speak out now? why go. and why have the parents suddenly. chosen to speak out now? why go to the employer? — chosen to speak out now? why go to the employer? why— chosen to speak out now? why go to the employer? why go _ chosen to speak out now? why go to the employer? why go to _ chosen to speak out now? why go to the employer? why go to the - the employer? why go to the newspapers? _ the employer? why go to the newspapers? why— the employer? why go to the newspapers? why did - the employer? why go to the newspapers? why did they. the employer? why go to the. newspapers? why did they not the employer? why go to the - newspapers? why did they not go to the police? — newspapers? why did they not go to the police? i— newspapers? why did they not go to the police? i do _ newspapers? why did they not go to the police? i do have _ newspapers? why did they not go to the police? i do have a _ newspapers? why did they not go to the police? i do have a problem - newspapers? why did they not go toi the police? i do have a problem with the police? i do have a problem with the amount— the police? i do have a problem with the amount of— the police? i do have a problem with the amount of time _ the police? i do have a problem with the amount of time that _ the police? i do have a problem with the amount of time that is _ the police? i do have a problem with the amount of time that is being - the amount of time that is being placed _ the amount of time that is being placed on— the amount of time that is being ptaced on this _ the amount of time that is being placed on this one _ the amount of time that is being placed on this one case, - the amount of time that is being placed on this one case, the - the amount of time that is being - placed on this one case, the amount

of airtime _ placed on this one case, the amount ofairtime it— placed on this one case, the amount of airtime it is — placed on this one case, the amount of airtime it is getting, _ placed on this one case, the amount of airtime it is getting, the - placed on this one case, the amount of airtime it is getting, the amount i of airtime it is getting, the amount of airtime it is getting, the amount of columns — of airtime it is getting, the amount of columns in — of airtime it is getting, the amount of columns in the _ of airtime it is getting, the amount of columns in the newspaper, - of airtime it is getting, the amount of columns in the newspaper, i- of airtime it is getting, the amounti of columns in the newspaper, i see it on— of columns in the newspaper, i see it on my— of columns in the newspaper, i see it on my news _ of columns in the newspaper, i see it on my news and _ of columns in the newspaper, i see it on my news and i'm _ of columns in the newspaper, i see it on my news and i'm sat - of columns in the newspaper, i see it on my news and i'm sat there - it on my news and i'm sat there thinking, — it on my news and i'm sat there thinking, so_ it on my news and i'm sat there thinking, so what? _ it on my news and i'm sat there thinking, so what? i'm- it on my news and i'm sat there thinking, so what? i'm sorry, . it on my news and i'm sat there i thinking, so what? i'm sorry, but that is_ thinking, so what? i'm sorry, but that is the— thinking, so what? i'm sorry, but that is the way— thinking, so what? i'm sorry, but that is the way i— thinking, so what? i'm sorry, but that is the way i feel— thinking, so what? i'm sorry, but that is the way i feel about - thinking, so what? i'm sorry, but that is the way i feel about it. - thinking, so what? i'm sorry, butl that is the way i feel about it. and maybe _ that is the way i feel about it. and maybe pe0pte _ that is the way i feel about it. and maybe people think— that is the way i feel about it. and maybe people think i— that is the way i feel about it. and maybe people think i should - that is the way i feel about it. and maybe people think i should feel. maybe people think i should feel diffe re htty — maybe people think i should feel differently but _ maybe people think i should feel differently but i _ maybe people think i should feel differently but i don't. _ maybe people think i should feel differently but i don't. i- maybe people think i should feel differently but i don't. i feel- maybe people think i should feel differently but i don't. i feel thati differently but i don't. i feel that this person — differently but i don't. i feel that this person has _ differently but i don't. i feel that this person has not _ differently but i don't. i feel that this person has not committed l differently but i don't. i feel that this person has not committed ai this person has not committed a crime _ this person has not committed a crime and. — this person has not committed a crime and. sure. _ this person has not committed a crime and, sure, the _ this person has not committed a crime and, sure, the parents- this person has not committed a i crime and, sure, the parents want this person has not committed a - crime and, sure, the parents want to .et crime and, sure, the parents want to getiustice _ crime and, sure, the parents want to getjustice somehow, _ crime and, sure, the parents want to getjustice somehow, but— crime and, sure, the parents want to getjustice somehow, but i— crime and, sure, the parents want to getjustice somehow, but i also- crime and, sure, the parents want to getjustice somehow, but i also feeli getjustice somehow, but i also feel maybe _ getjustice somehow, but i also feel maybe they— getjustice somehow, but i also feel maybe they were _ getjustice somehow, but i also feel maybe they were given _ getjustice somehow, but i also feel maybe they were given a _ getjustice somehow, but i also feel maybe they were given a lot - getjustice somehow, but i also feel maybe they were given a lot of- getjustice somehow, but i also feel. maybe they were given a lot of money or whatever _ maybe they were given a lot of money or whatever for — maybe they were given a lot of money or whatever for indecent _ maybe they were given a lot of money or whatever for indecent images, - maybe they were given a lot of money or whatever for indecent images, buti or whatever for indecent images, but if these _ or whatever for indecent images, but if these so _ or whatever for indecent images, but if these so called _ or whatever for indecent images, but if these so called victim, _ or whatever for indecent images, but if these so called victim, and - or whatever for indecent images, but if these so called victim, and i- or whatever for indecent images, but if these so called victim, and i use i if these so called victim, and i use the term _ if these so called victim, and i use the term loosely, _ if these so called victim, and i use the term loosely, wanted - if these so called victim, and i use the term loosely, wanted to - if these so called victim, and i use the term loosely, wanted to put. if these so called victim, and i use the term loosely, wanted to put it| the term loosely, wanted to put it up the term loosely, wanted to put it up their— the term loosely, wanted to put it on their noses _ the term loosely, wanted to put it up their noses cocaine, _ the term loosely, wanted to put it up their noses cocaine, whether. the term loosely, wanted to put it i up their noses cocaine, whether they .ot up their noses cocaine, whether they got the _ up their noses cocaine, whether they got the money— up their noses cocaine, whether they got the money from _ up their noses cocaine, whether they got the money from this _ up their noses cocaine, whether they got the money from this person - up their noses cocaine, whether they got the money from this person or. got the money from this person or from _ got the money from this person or from elsewhere, _ got the money from this person or from elsewhere, does— got the money from this person or from elsewhere, does it _ got the money from this person or from elsewhere, does it really- from elsewhere, does it really matter? — from elsewhere, does it really matter? they— from elsewhere, does it really matter? they were _ from elsewhere, does it really matter? they were going - from elsewhere, does it really matter? they were going to l from elsewhere, does it really| matter? they were going to do from elsewhere, does it really. matter? they were going to do in from elsewhere, does it really- matter? they were going to do in any case _ matter? they were going to do in any case. , , i, �* p, matter? they were going to do in any case. , i case. yes, well, you're so much sunposition _ case. yes, well, you're so much supposition and _ case. yes, well, you're so much supposition and i _ case. yes, well, you're so much supposition and i guess - case. yes, well, you're so much supposition and i guess the - case. yes, well, you're so much - supposition and i guess the appetite for it anyway second is the mystery

of it all on the fact it is the bbc and people pay for their licence fee. i'mjust and people pay for their licence fee. i'm just reading your text, it is so well put, and you articulated all so it is something of a privilege that you got in touch with us because your experience is so specific to the issue which we are focusing on this morning of crisis handling, so can i thank you. you are very welcome. _ handling, so can i thank you. you are very welcome. i _ handling, so can i thank you. you are very welcome. i am just so sorry that it _ are very welcome. i am just so sorry that it has _ are very welcome. i am just so sorry that it has come _ are very welcome. i am just so sorry that it has come to— are very welcome. i am just so sorry that it has come to this. _ are very welcome. i am just so sorry that it has come to this. but- are very welcome. i am just so sorry that it has come to this. but thank. that it has come to this. but thank you very— that it has come to this. but thank you very much _ that it has come to this. but thank you very much-— that it has come to this. but thank you very much. thank you. and we have a police _ you very much. thank you. and we have a police officer, _ you very much. thank you. and we have a police officer, i _ you very much. thank you. and we have a police officer, i think. - have a police officer, i think. jackie in cornwall, ex—cop. low. hello, thanks for having me on. my point is, i am quite angry about the whole thing. i think the context

here is very important. the information that is being fed out to the general public is there to have this for the context in the context... anything of any value would not be allowed to be said in the public domain because it is under investigation and in all fairness the more the investigation goes, i should fairness the more the investigation goes, ishould imagine fairness the more the investigation goes, i should imagine would come out that in my opinion is there is no criminal offence you, and what has been put out to the public, but what it is doing is stirring people up what it is doing is stirring people up because what you have is loads of different beliefs in the public, you have loads of people who want to have loads of people who want to have a say and it may not be about the complete context. do you understand what in? i'm sorry, i put

so many things going in my head that i want to bring up. is so many things going in my head that i want to bring up.— i want to bring up. is that a budgie in the background _ i want to bring up. is that a budgie in the background i'm _ i want to bring up. is that a budgie in the background i'm hearing? - in the background i'm hearing? sorry, it is apparent. i in the background i'm hearing? sorry, it is apparent.— in the background i'm hearing? sorry, it is apparent. i love it. -- a parrot- — sorry, it is apparent. i love it. -- a parrot- my— sorry, it is apparent. i love it. -- a parrot. my main _ sorry, it is apparent. i love it. -- a parrot. my main thing - sorry, it is apparent. i love it. -- a parrot. my main thing is, - sorry, it is apparent. i love it. -- a parrot. my main thing is, in - sorry, it is apparent. i love it. --| a parrot. my main thing is, in this da and a parrot. my main thing is, in this day and age _ a parrot. my main thing is, in this day and age and _ a parrot. my main thing is, in this day and age and certainly - a parrot. my main thing is, in this day and age and certainly i - a parrot. my main thing is, in this day and age and certainly i have l day and age and certainly i have been out of the force now for 13 years, and certainly in my experience of the force, there were a lot of people out there, a lot of families out there who have got skeletons in their cupboard and are very grateful for having a degree of secrecy about it so they can deal with it within themselves. that they don't have the domain. the issue here is people are trying to get to the bbc. this per person behind this, i don't feel has actually done anything wrong. maybe you can argue

that they should have been a bit more intelligent about what they've done and you question their choices, but i think what they have done should be out in the public eye like this. i don't think...— this. i don't think... thank you. perfect, absolutely _ this. i don't think... thank you. perfect, absolutely perfect. - this. i don't think... thank you. perfect, absolutely perfect. i. this. i don't think... thank you. i perfect, absolutely perfect. i don't believe they _ perfect, absolutely perfect. i don't believe they should _ perfect, absolutely perfect. i don't believe they should come - perfect, absolutely perfect. i don't believe they should come out - perfect, absolutely perfect. i don't believe they should come out and | perfect, absolutely perfect. i don't i believe they should come out and say their name because it won't be about what they've done, it will be about people's protection.— what they've done, it will be about people's protection. other agendas. i will cive people's protection. other agendas. i will give nearly _ people's protection. other agendas. i will give nearly a _ people's protection. other agendas. i will give nearly a couple _ people's protection. other agendas. i will give nearly a couple of- i will give nearly a couple of minutes towards the top. thank you and take care. thanks for getting in touch. neil, you heard a lot, i'm sure you want to bite on.- touch. neil, you heard a lot, i'm sure you want to bite on. what i... i have sure you want to bite on. what i... l have grown _ sure you want to bite on. what i... i have grown from _ sure you want to bite on. what i... i have grown from increasingly - i have grown from increasingly concerned about the last few minutes is the _ concerned about the last few minutes is the sort _ concerned about the last few minutes is the sort of implicit attack on the integrity of the parents. can i 'ust the integrity of the parents. can i just say— the integrity of the parents. can i just say that i'm pretty sure i read that in— just say that i'm pretty sure i read

that in the — just say that i'm pretty sure i read that in the initial contact, the family— that in the initial contact, the family had been to the police but had been — family had been to the police but had been told that the police they spoke _ had been told that the police they spoke to— had been told that the police they spoke to said there was no offence, it was— spoke to said there was no offence, it was then — spoke to said there was no offence, it was then that they went to the bbc and — it was then that they went to the bbc and it— it was then that they went to the bbc and it was then that they again .ot bbc and it was then that they again got no _ bbc and it was then that they again got no satisfaction, they went to the sun — got no satisfaction, they went to the sun. let'sjust remember the context— the sun. let'sjust remember the context of— the sun. let'sjust remember the context of this. frightened, concerned parents, they have a young person _ concerned parents, they have a young person who _ concerned parents, they have a young person who they say they believe is getting _ person who they say they believe is getting into a serious drug addiction to crack cocaine that they fear is _ addiction to crack cocaine that they fear is being paid for by payments from _ fear is being paid for by payments from a _ fear is being paid for by payments from a very— fear is being paid for by payments from a very rich and famous bbc presenter— from a very rich and famous bbc presenter who is supplying that money— presenter who is supplying that money to— presenter who is supplying that money to this person, who they believe — money to this person, who they believe is — money to this person, who they believe is obtaining drugs with it. that is— believe is obtaining drugs with it. that is the — believe is obtaining drugs with it. that is the context of why this family— that is the context of why this family have spoken out. they met a blank— family have spoken out. they met a blank wall— family have spoken out. they met a blank wall initially going to the police, — blank wall initially going to the police, they got nowhere with the

bbc, _ police, they got nowhere with the bbc, and — police, they got nowhere with the bbc, and i— police, they got nowhere with the bbc, and i have read this you will have _ bbc, and i have read this you will have seen. — bbc, and i have read this you will have seen, myriad examples right across, _ have seen, myriad examples right across, including the bbc, about there _ across, including the bbc, about there are — across, including the bbc, about there are a — across, including the bbc, about there are a potential criminal issues, — there are a potential criminal issues, whether they get pursued or not is _ issues, whether they get pursued or not is a _ issues, whether they get pursued or not is a different thing. but please do not _ not is a different thing. but please do not malign the parents.- not is a different thing. but please do not malign the parents. thank you very much. — do not malign the parents. thank you very much. we _ do not malign the parents. thank you very much, we have _ do not malign the parents. thank you very much, we have no _ do not malign the parents. thank you very much, we have no evidence - do not malign the parents. thank you very much, we have no evidence that| very much, we have no evidence that the initially went to the police, the initially went to the police, the timeline of the 19th of may the complaint to the bbc about behaviour and presenters —— one of the presenters, the first time they did that, we don't know the nature of those complaints. thursday the 6th ofjuly new complaints emerge. thank you for those getting in touch. stand down, everyone. not so long

ago, the end ofjune, bank bosses were getting a grilling from jeremy hunt and the fca, mortgage buses will be in front of the commons treasury committee. the man from lloyds banking group, the man from santander, the man from paragon banking group, the woman from skipton building society and the man from nationwide. we will hear what they say and hear what you think too. get in touch. here is the news from bethan holmes. the director general of the bbc — tim davie — will face questions from the media for the first time since claims against an unnamed

bbc presenter emerged. mr davie will be publishing the coporations yearly report later. the sun newspaper accuses the presenter of paying a teenager for explicit photos. a lawyer representing the young person says the claims are "rubbish," but the sun says the person's family still stand by their account. mortgage rates have hit their highest level for 15 years. the average rate on a two—year fixed deal is now 6.66% — a level not seen since the financial crash in 2008. wages in the uk have risen at a record yearly rate. pay was 7.3% higher in the three months to may compared with the same time last year. but adjusted for inflation in real terms, pay fell by 0.8%. mps will vote on changes to the government's illegal migration bill today after the house of lords rejected parts of it. ministers will seek to reverse most of the lords' amendments — but they've also made a series of concessions — which will limit

detention period for children and pregnant women. mortgages, your views on this. i know from previous conversations we have had on this issue, you have fun, especially if you have a mortgage. mortgage costs have hit their highest level for 15 years. average rate on a two year fixed deal is 6.66%. there is a number, not been at that level since august 2008 and the financial crisis. we will be hearing at around about 10:15am, in about 12 minutes, the

aforementioned mortgage buses, building society bosses, bank bosses facing the mp5 on the treasury select committee. there will be interesting questions, pertinent answers. we will bring you some of out live, we want your reactions foot before and after. jasmine birtles is a personalfinance foot before and after. jasmine birtles is a personal finance expert from moneymagpie.com. we are being terribly cheerful but this is not cheerful news, it is pretty grim. many mortgage holders have a fixed rate mortgage, which is great, until it finishes. we are now beginning to see people finishing their mortgages and needing to remortgage, and for many people, as you had such a number of times, it means it is a massivejump from number of times, it means it is a massive jump from probably around

2%, maybe a little bit more, too as you say an average of 6.66% for a two yearfix. for you say an average of 6.66% for a two year fix. for many people that will simply not be possible. hoop will simply not be possible. how aenuine will simply not be possible. how genuine is _ will simply not be possible. how genuine is the _ will simply not be possible. how genuine is the fear... _ will simply not be possible. how genuine is the fear... well, this is going to happen, i hate to say it but how widespread will repossessions, people coming to a desperate situation be? i think there is more help from the banks and building societies than that perhaps has been before. absolutely, it is alwa s perhaps has been before. absolutely, it is always the _ perhaps has been before. absolutely, it is always the case _ perhaps has been before. absolutely, it is always the case that _ perhaps has been before. absolutely, it is always the case that lenders - it is always the case that lenders do not want to repossess people. it generally means a loss of money for them, particularly in a falling market. house prices at the moment are softening, as the estate agents say. it is not helpful for lenders to do that. also the government has been doing a lot of finger wagging

up been doing a lot of finger wagging up the lenders, saying, you won't to do this, will you? labour has said they should force the lenders to enable people to go on to an interest only mortgage or to extend the length of their mortgage. the tory government would not do that, i don't think that is the way they would work, but they would strongly encourage them to do this. many lenders would do that specifically so they didn't have to repossess where possible. but there are a number of situations where they probably will. number of situations where they probably will-— number of situations where they robabl will. ... ., ., probably will. good morning, david. good morning- _ probably will. good morning, david. good morning. how— probably will. good morning, david. good morning. how are _ probably will. good morning, david. good morning. how are you - probably will. good morning, david. j good morning. how are you coping? david chuckles — good morning. how are you coping? david chuckles dryly. _ good morning. how are you coping? david chuckles dryly. coping. - good morning. how are you coping? david chuckles dryly. coping. |t| david chuckles dryly. coping. it seems ridiculous _ david chuckles dryly. coping. it seems ridiculous to _ david chuckles dryly. coping. it seems ridiculous to expect -

david chuckles dryly. coping. it seems ridiculous to expect a - david chuckles dryly. coping. it seems ridiculous to expect a few i seems ridiculous to expect a few million _ seems ridiculous to expect a few million mortgage payers to correct the problem with inflation, which is what the _ the problem with inflation, which is what the bank of england seems to think should happen, and other people — think should happen, and other people borrowing to maybe grow their business _ people borrowing to maybe grow their business and help people with employment. if theyjust put one or two pennies per pound, i give a pound _ two pennies per pound, i give a pound away to the corner, one or two pennies— pound away to the corner, one or two pennies per— pound away to the corner, one or two pennies per pound on tax, they're asking _ pennies per pound on tax, they're asking are — pennies per pound on tax, they're asking are few million mortgage payers _ asking are few million mortgage payers to— asking are few million mortgage payers to fix it and my mortgage has .one payers to fix it and my mortgage has gone up _ payers to fix it and my mortgage has gone up by— payers to fix it and my mortgage has gone up by £6,000 per year. how much is that hitting — gone up by £6,000 per year. how much is that hitting you? _ gone up by £6,000 per year. how much is that hitting you? you _ gone up by £6,000 per year. how much is that hitting you? you know _ gone up by £6,000 per year. how much is that hitting you? you know what? - is that hitting you? you know what? we will manage _ is that hitting you? you know what? we will manage but _ is that hitting you? you know what? we will manage but something - is that hitting you? you know what? we will manage but something else| is that hitting you? you know what? | we will manage but something else i needed _ we will manage but something else i needed to— we will manage but something else i needed to do will not get done. perhaps — needed to do will not get done. perhaps in desperation i could have been _ perhaps in desperation i could have been a _ perhaps in desperation i could have been a replacement hip for my wife, something _ been a replacement hip for my wife, something my daughter needs,

something my daughter needs, something will not happen that we had planned, we will have to work out what — had planned, we will have to work out what we will not do to continue to maintain— out what we will not do to continue to maintain it, it seems we are being— to maintain it, it seems we are being asked to do this on the basis of government failings, financial ineptitude, the fact we have a terrible — ineptitude, the fact we have a terrible road and energy system, a terrible _ terrible road and energy system, a terrible water system, everything failing. _ terrible water system, everything failing, all the responsibility of government and you're asking a few million _ government and you're asking a few million mortgage payers to try to fix some — million mortgage payers to try to fix some of the stuff, like the inflation _ fix some of the stuff, like the inflation rate. it fix some of the stuff, like the inflation rate.— fix some of the stuff, like the inflation rate. , . ., , . inflation rate. it is ridiculous. we are listening _ inflation rate. it is ridiculous. we are listening to _ inflation rate. it is ridiculous. we are listening to you, _ inflation rate. it is ridiculous. we are listening to you, we - inflation rate. it is ridiculous. we are listening to you, we will - inflation rate. it is ridiculous. we are listening to you, we will be i are listening to you, we will be listening to the mortgage, bank and building society bosses in about seven minutes, fire or thereabouts, then we will get your reaction. thank you, david.— then we will get your reaction. thank you, david. frank in exeter? good morning- _ thank you, david. frank in exeter? good morning. i— thank you, david. frank in exeter? good morning. i was _ thank you, david. frank in exeter? good morning. i was tempted - thank you, david. frank in exeter? good morning. i was tempted to i thank you, david. frank in exeter? i good morning. i was tempted to ring in not about mortgages, i will come to that very quickly, i've just been given an automatic renewal for one

of the policies in my home which has put it up by 44%, which i think it slightly above inflation. that has happened with every single renewable policy i have and the ultimate, which i can't control at all, south west water are about to ask me to pay for their ineptitude and greed over the years. do i believe in anything to do with the financial system on the basis of what comes to my letterbox? no. ithink system on the basis of what comes to my letterbox? no. i think they are in it to make money, i think most of the people who comment on it will never have to face the results of their policies and their decisions at the poor person in the street without much power will have to fork out or lose their home, i think it is a complete disgrace. jasmine, can ou hear is a complete disgrace. jasmine, can you hear frank _ is a complete disgrace. jasmine, can you hear frank in _ is a complete disgrace. jasmine, can you hear frank in exeter? _ is a complete disgrace. jasmine, can you hear frank in exeter? |- is a complete disgrace. jasmine, can you hear frank in exeter? i agree, . you hear frank in exeter? i agree, personally- _ you hear frank in exeter? i agree, personally- i— you hear frank in exeter? i agree, personally. i was _ you hear frank in exeter? i agree,

personally. i was shouting - you hear frank in exeter? i agree, personally. i was shouting duringl personally. i was shouting during lockdown — personally. i was shouting during lockdown and earlier about printing money~ _ lockdown and earlier about printing money. printing money. i disagree with the— money. printing money. i disagree with the governor of the bank of england — with the governor of the bank of england who says printing money does not create _ england who says printing money does not create inflation, it does, as far as _ not create inflation, it does, as far as i — not create inflation, it does, as far as i am _ not create inflation, it does, as far as i am concerned. that is what created _ far as i am concerned. that is what created it — far as i am concerned. that is what created it. we the consumer are the ones _ created it. we the consumer are the ones who— created it. we the consumer are the ones who have to have the pain to bring _ ones who have to have the pain to bring it— ones who have to have the pain to bring it down. i was also saying two or three _ bring it down. i was also saying two or three years ago that we should raise _ or three years ago that we should raise interest rates then. we didn't — raise interest rates then. we didn't all— raise interest rates then. we didn't. all of the central banks waited — didn't. all of the central banks waited and waited and waited, i think— waited and waited and waited, i think entirely wrongly, we should have done — think entirely wrongly, we should have done it earlier and nowjeremy hunt says— have done it earlier and nowjeremy hunt says he is quite happy to raise interest— hunt says he is quite happy to raise interest rates, we may see mortgage rates going _ interest rates, we may see mortgage rates going up to 7.5%, 8%. he says even _ rates going up to 7.5%, 8%. he says even if— rates going up to 7.5%, 8%. he says even if it— rates going up to 7.5%, 8%. he says even if it puts — rates going up to 7.5%, 8%. he says even if it puts us into recession it is a good — even if it puts us into recession it is a good idea. i don't think so, personally _ is a good idea. i don't think so, personally. if is a good idea. i don't think so, personally-— is a good idea. i don't think so, ersonall . , . ., , ., personally. if they had rates than earlier, would _ personally. if they had rates than earlier, would they _ personally. if they had rates than earlier, would they be _ personally. if they had rates than earlier, would they be at this - earlier, would they be at this current rate? —— raised than

earlier? i current rate? -- raised than earlier? ., �* current rate? -- raised than earlier?— current rate? -- raised than earlier? ., �* ,, ,, earlier? i don't think so, i think we should _ earlier? i don't think so, i think we should have _ earlier? i don't think so, i think we should have had _ earlier? i don't think so, i think we should have had their- earlier? i don't think so, i think we should have had their much| we should have had their much earlier. — we should have had their much earlier. it — we should have had their much earlier, it would have been hard and very unpopular politically but i think— very unpopular politically but i think it — very unpopular politically but i think it would have been much better to do it _ think it would have been much better to do it then— think it would have been much better to do it then and start bringing them — to do it then and start bringing them down now. that is easy for me to say, _ them down now. that is easy for me to say, i— them down now. that is easy for me to say, i know, with hindsight, but i to say, i know, with hindsight, but i said _ to say, i know, with hindsight, but i said it _ to say, i know, with hindsight, but i said it at — to say, i know, with hindsight, but i said it at the time. if to say, i know, with hindsight, but i said it at the time.— i said it at the time. if you were on the treasury _ i said it at the time. if you were on the treasury select - i said it at the time. if you were i on the treasury select committee, jazzmen, and there will be a weight of opinion that you should be, what would questions be —— if you were on the treasury select committee, jasmine. i the treasury select committee, jasmine. ., �* ~' the treasury select committee, jasmine. ., �* ,, ., ., the treasury select committee, jasmine. ., �* ,, ., jasmine. i don't think the tool of raising interest _ jasmine. i don't think the tool of raising interest rates _ jasmine. i don't think the tool of raising interest rates isn't - jasmine. i don't think the tool of. raising interest rates isn't working any more — raising interest rates isn't working any more to bring down inflation. this is— any more to bring down inflation. this is the — any more to bring down inflation. this is the point of it, the point of putting — this is the point of it, the point of putting up interest rates as traditionally it has been the way to bring _ traditionally it has been the way to bring down inflation, the idea is you make —

bring down inflation, the idea is you make money more expensive to borrow _ you make money more expensive to borrow so _ you make money more expensive to borrow so people borrow life so they spend _ borrow so people borrow life so they spend less. — borrow so people borrow life so they spend less, that has worked. the idea of— spend less, that has worked. the idea of bringing down interest rates was to— idea of bringing down interest rates was to boost the economy. i am one of the _ was to boost the economy. i am one of the very— was to boost the economy. i am one of the very few people who was behind — of the very few people who was behind liz truss's idea of increasing growth, improving growth. ithink— increasing growth, improving growth. i think that _ increasing growth, improving growth. i think that would have helped. personally i'm more keen on improving growth and growing the economy. — improving growth and growing the economy, then you naturally get a higherm — economy, then you naturally get a hither...~ ., economy, then you naturally get a hither...~ . ., higher... what about financial credibility _ higher... what about financial credibility on _ higher... what about financial credibility on the _ higher... what about financial credibility on the markets? i l credibility on the markets? i disagree with the markets. credibility on the markets? i i disagree with the markets. you credibility on the markets? i - disagree with the markets. you can't disauree disagree with the markets. you can't disagree with — disagree with the markets. you can't disagree with the _ disagree with the markets. you can't disagree with the markets! - disagree with the markets. you can't disagree with the markets! james i disagree with the markets. you can't disagree with the markets! james in | disagree with the markets! james in cobham? i might have to break into your wisdom, we have another three minutes before they are scheduled to appear but on some days i have two waffle and on some days i had to

curtail. that morning, james. a mortgage broker. i curtail. that morning, james. a mortgage broker.— curtail. that morning, james. a mortgage broker. i have had lots of ainful mortgage broker. i have had lots of painful conversations _ mortgage broker. i have had lots of painful conversations with - mortgage broker. i have had lots of painful conversations with clients. i painful conversations with clients. it is probably bigger mortgages than you find at the north—west as we are in the you find at the north-west as we are in the . , , you find at the north-west as we are in the ,., .,, , ., in the south-east, but we are regularly _ in the south-east, but we are regularly having _ in the south-east, but we are | regularly having conversations in the south-east, but we are i regularly having conversations with clients who have to spend £1000 a month more on their mortgages, and they don't like it. the first time buyers are still out there and they still want to buy, you talk to them and rent has gone through the roof so they make a choice to buy. then they say, oh, it is more than i expected. i say, they say, oh, it is more than i expected. isay, the they say, oh, it is more than i expected. i say, the bank has already agreed. then they say, i like to have my bmw and my wife has an allergy and we have a gym

membership and coffees at costa and we eat out twice a week and we like to go to the mediterranean on holiday —— and my wife has a audi. i say, ok, that is fine. borrowing is at historic levels and now you have to make a choice. you can't have instant gratification, which is what the economy has basically been running on when we have had cheap borrowing under government throwing loads money at people with bounce back loans and fellow etc. i think the government and the bank of england have made their own bed and we are all lying in it. ads, england have made their own bed and we are all lying in it.— we are all lying in it. a bed of nails. jasmine, _ we are all lying in it. a bed of nails. jasmine, the _ we are all lying in it. a bed of nails. jasmine, the point i we are all lying in it. a bed of nails. jasmine, the point thatj we are all lying in it. a bed of. nails. jasmine, the point that we are living in a different world? absolutely. wasn't it edwina currie search, what are you worrying about? backin

search, what are you worrying about? back in the 805 we had 18% interest rates and i remember in the 905 having a mortgage, the end of the 905, the beginning of the noughties... 90s, the beginning of the noughties. . .— 90s, the beginning of the noughties. .. but that was a completely _ noughties. .. but that was a completely different - noughties. .. but that was a | completely different relative noughties. .. but that was a - completely different relative value one wages and house prices then. absolutely, and volume. this is the problem, we have had low interest rates for so long that a lot of people thought it was perfectly acceptable to borrow hundreds of thousands of pounds because they could afford it on 1%, you can afford it. as soon as it gets to 2% and certainly three, four, five, six, you are talking multiples of a 5ix, you are talking multiples of a huge amount and when i got my mortgage i think i got about £70,000, for the same property now i would have to get about £400,000. because it is in percentages,

interest rates work on percentages, it is a percentage of a much higher volume, greater volume of money than we were looking at when interest rates were insanely high.- rates were insanely high. edwina currie, rates were insanely high. edwina currie. what _ rates were insanely high. edwina currie, what a _ rates were insanely high. edwina currie, what a name _ rates were insanely high. edwina currie, what a name drop, she . rates were insanely high. edwina l currie, what a name drop, she was misguided to draw the comparison? yes, i think in that sense. there was an element of truth, interest rates were massively higher, but as you pointed out, relative to earnings the mortgages we took out were actually much smaller and the volume of money we have been borrowing. and when i say we, i'm particularly talking about first—time buyers who have come in in the 20105 when we have had historically low interest rates for an historically long amount of time. even though people like me would say

don't borrow too much, in reality be felt, i had to borrow as much as i can to get something before it goes up can to get something before it goes up even further. i think it is particularly hard on people who are relatively new buyers of properties. but then property prices might not planets but they are going down. they seem to be. as our mortgage broker said, there is still quite an appetite to buy property but they seem to be going down. it makes sense when interest rates are so high that it is very, very expensive to borrow. that works in terms of property inflation, i'm speaking about general inflation that i think will not really work on, but when it comes to property inflation, house price inflation, making it much more difficult to borrow money as a mortgage, it is certainly having an

effect. , . , ., effect. this tech says, i am extremely _ effect. this tech says, i am extremely worried - effect. this tech says, i am extremely worried about i effect. this tech says, i am | extremely worried about the effect. this tech says, i am - extremely worried about the future, i'm a young professional with a good job but i worry i will never be able to buy my own home. when my parents were my age they had their own house and they were starting their family. at this rate i will not be able to move out of my parents�* house until i'm in my 305, it has a massive impact on the rest of the lives of young people. future be this week for young people who want their own homes? will this ever be popularfor our generation? and this, forcing, our generation? and this, forcing, our mortgage is currently around £370,000. on a fix tojuly 2024, we are not affluent but currently 0k are not affluent but currently ok but will seriously not be if the rates do not come down next year. i agree with the caller frank about auto renewals. my car insurance

suddenlyjumped from £450 a year to 1500 talents on auto renewal. it took some shopping around to get it under £600, says brian in south—east london —— jumped from £450 a year to £1500. peter in colchester, i will be with you in a moment butjames, what are you smelling about the markets, dna mortgage broker? it markets, dna mortgage broker? it very slow. markets, dna mortgage broker? it very slow- -- _ markets, dna mortgage broker? it very slow. -- being _ markets, dna mortgage broker? it very slow. -- being a _ markets, dna mortgage broker? it very slow. -- being a mortgage i very slow. -- being a mortgage broker. very slow. -- being a mortgage broker- we _ very slow. -- being a mortgage broker. we are _ very slow. -- being a mortgage broker. we are not _ very slow. -- being a mortgage broker. we are not seeing i very slow. -- being a mortgage l broker. we are not seeing people lookin: to broker. we are not seeing people looking to trade _ broker. we are not seeing people looking to trade up, _ broker. we are not seeing people looking to trade up, they - broker. we are not seeing people looking to trade up, they are i broker. we are not seeing people looking to trade up, they are not | looking to trade up, they are not out there, they are sitting on my hands and waiting to see what happens with interest rates. —— sitting on their hands. first—time buyers are around, not in huge numbers but definitely around, and then we have conversations with the remortgaging clients. we look at

what is offered and what they can get elsewhere? what i call the hobbyist landlords, the people with two or three buy to let as a pension, those plans are not working and those people are going to sell, which is causing a huge lack of rental property which is putting a lot of pressure on renters. the whole thing is a nightmare whether you want to rent or buy. we have been here before and your colleagues jasmine was talking about the early days, i was around in the early days and the banks were happy to lend

people up to 45% of their disposable income with interest rates of 15% or 60%, those interest rates stayed stubbornly high in the 905 and that kick the housing market over. i think andrew bailey has to tread very carefully and not heaped more unto the interest rates, the pain is already being felt.— unto the interest rates, the pain is already being felt. thank you. let's cross to the — already being felt. thank you. let's cross to the commons _ already being felt. thank you. let's cross to the commons treasury i already being felt. thank you. let's i cross to the commons treasury select committee and we will hear the bosses of the big mortgage companies asking questions. the bosses of the big mortgage companies asking questions. th— asking questions. the charlotte harrison, interim _ asking questions. the charlotte harrison, interim ceo - asking questions. the charlotte harrison, interim ceo of - asking questions. the charlotte harrison, interim ceo of home| harrison, interim ceo of home financing for skipp to building society. financing for skipp to building socie . ., , . ., financing for skipp to building socie . ., , ., , society. homes director at lloyds bankinu society. homes director at lloyds banking gl’°“p- — society. homes director at lloyds banking group. henry _ society. homes director at lloyds banking group. henry jordan, i banking group. henry jordan, commercial— banking group. henry jordan, commercial director— banking group. henry jordan, commercial director for- banking group. henryjordan, commercial director for how l banking group. henryjordan, i commercial director for how much banking group. henryjordan, - commercial director for how much cut nationwide~ _ commercial director for how much cut nationwide~ iparit— commercial director for how much cut nationwide. ., ., , ., ~' commercial director for how much cut nationwide. ., ., , ., ,, ,. ., nationwide. part of my work is chair of outreach. — nationwide. part of my work is chair of outreach. l _ nationwide. part of my work is chair of outreach, i have _ nationwide. part of my work is chair

of outreach, i have had _ nationwide. part of my work is chair of outreach, i have had dinner i nationwide. part of my work is chair of outreach, i have had dinner with | of outreach, i have had dinner with the building societies association last week and i think there was a representative from nationwide, i am not sure whether anybody was there from skipton but i will set that out for the record. in terms of initial questions to each of you, it has obviously been a long period where lots of your customers have enjoyed very low rates on their mortgages and now have seen very, very sharp increases in mortgage rates. can you share with the committee what you are seeing in terms of the reaction from those borrowers affected and how that is affecting the quality of your mortgage book, pointing out any increases you might be seeing in arrears, a number of accounts you have in forbearance and whether you are seeing a sharp increase in terms of repossessions. i are seeing a sharp increase in terms of repossessions.— of repossessions. i will start with

hen .i of repossessions. i will start with henry- i agree — of repossessions. i will start with henry. i agree there _ of repossessions. i will start with henry. i agree there is _ of repossessions. i will start with henry. i agree there is a - henry. i agree there is a significant increase in rates for customers maturing off their original product. as contacts for our mortgage book it is around £235 per month increase, roughly about a third increase in their payment. that said, we have not really seen any real material movement in performance, certainly within our prime residential portfolio arrears are stable, we have seen that in a roughly one basis point increase over the last 12 months, on a three months in arrears measure. we have seen a slightly higher increase in early arrears, particularly on the buy to let boom, mainly because those customers are predominantly on interest only already and have fewer options available. in terms of

forbearance that is down slightly so i think customers are generally taking action, we had seen an increase in overpayment, in terms of extensions, no material increase in arrears yet. extensions, no material increase in arrears yet-— extensions, no material increase in arrears yet. nationwide has a pretty siunificant arrears yet. nationwide has a pretty significant market _ arrears yet. nationwide has a pretty significant market share, _ arrears yet. nationwide has a pretty significant market share, as - arrears yet. nationwide has a pretty significant market share, as does i significant market share, as does lloyds. do you recognise the picture we have heard from henry? uk finance data for the first quarter of this year showed a kick up in terms of mortgage arrears.— mortgage arrears. they are very similar in terms _ mortgage arrears. they are very similar in terms of— mortgage arrears. they are very similar in terms of cut _ mortgage arrears. they are very l similar in terms of cut nationwide. how are feeling the effect notjust of mortgage rates increasing but the wider cost of living crisis, but as we look at the impact on arrears and forbearance into repossessions, very similar to henry, we saw an uptick,

but arrears are low in an historical context and lower than pre—covid. skipton? ads, context and lower than pre-covid. skiton? �* , ., context and lower than pre-covid. skiton? . , ., , ., , , skipton? a similar story. in terms ofthe skipton? a similar story. in terms of the trend _ skipton? a similar story. in terms of the trend for _ skipton? a similar story. in terms of the trend for the _ skipton? a similar story. in terms of the trend for the percentage i skipton? a similar story. in terms of the trend for the percentage of| of the trend for the percentage of customers in arrears, that remains flat, customers in arrears, that remains flat. we _ customers in arrears, that remains flat. we have — customers in arrears, that remains flat, we have not seen any uplift. referring — flat, we have not seen any uplift. referring to your point on uk finance — referring to your point on uk finance data in 01 seeing a small uplift. _ finance data in 01 seeing a small uplift. we — finance data in 01 seeing a small uplift, we have seen some seasonality and trends in customers entering _ seasonality and trends in customers entering arrears, we saw a modest increase _ entering arrears, we saw a modest increase in— entering arrears, we saw a modest increase in 01 in arrears that had come _ increase in 01 in arrears that had come back— increase in 01 in arrears that had come back down since then, so some of those _ come back down since then, so some of those factors around seasonality of those factors around seasonality of the _ of those factors around seasonality of the holiday season, the christmas period. _ of the holiday season, the christmas period. we _ of the holiday season, the christmas period, we tend to see an uplift in january. _ period, we tend to see an uplift in january. we — period, we tend to see an uplift in january, we also had the short april month— january, we also had the short april month and — january, we also had the short april month and some of those factors will play into— month and some of those factors will play into arrears performance, but the trend — play into arrears performance, but the trend over the longer term it's a small— the trend over the longer term it's a small uplift, and that has come back—

a small uplift, and that has come back down — a small uplift, and that has come back down-— a small uplift, and that has come backdown. . ~ , ., , back down. santander? a small uptick in arrears but — back down. santander? a small uptick in arrears but 7096 _ back down. santander? a small uptick in arrears but 70% below _ back down. santander? a small uptick in arrears but 7096 below the - back down. santander? a small uptick in arrears but 7096 below the 2009 i in arrears but 70% below the 2009 post—financial crisis levels. customers are typically coming off 2.3% this year going on to an average rate of around 4.5% with a payment increase of over £200 a month. as interest rates increase, the payment increase can increase, so a broadly similar picture. one thing to point out, over the last ten or 12 years and for us at santander, 95% of the customers who had joined us as mortgage customers, we had stressed the affordability and whether they can afford the mortgage payment today but also in the future, we had stress tested at a higher interest rate, that might have been around 6%. at the time of application, stress at that time, we

understood customers can buy a higher interest rates and that seems to be bearing out at this moment. —— we understood customers can bear. paragon is mainly buy to let, is there a comment of your business thatis there a comment of your business that is not buy to let that you would like to comment on? taste that is not buy to let that you would like to comment on? we are uuite would like to comment on? we are quite active — would like to comment on? we are quite active in _ would like to comment on? we are quite active in financing _ quite active in financing house—builders, also small businesses too. 0ur house—builders, also small businesses too. our comments and observation — businesses too. our comments and observation is that we are seeing very stable arrears positions across all of _ very stable arrears positions across all of those — very stable arrears positions across all of those portfolios. if you would — all of those portfolios. if you would like me to comment on buy to let specifically... | would like me to comment on buy to let specifically. . .— let specifically... i think we will aet let specifically... i think we will net to let specifically... i think we will get to more _ let specifically... i think we will get to more detailed _ let specifically... i think we will get to more detailed questions| let specifically... i think we will i get to more detailed questions as we go down, it is very interesting. we are also doing an inquiry on small business lending. if i can start asking the question in a slightly

different way, which is around the provisioning you are likely to put in place in terms of your loan losses this year. we are coming up to reporting of second—quarter results, i appreciate you won't be able to share anything not out there in the public domain, but are you going to be provisioning to reflect what you have just told us about the quality of your mortgage book, bradley? i quality of your mortgage book, bradle ? ., �* ., quality of your mortgage book, bradle ? .,�* ., ,,.. bradley? i don't have specific numbers. _ bradley? i don't have specific numbers. we _ bradley? i don't have specific numbers, we are _ bradley? i don't have specific numbers, we are currently i bradley? i don't have specific numbers, we are currently in | bradley? i don't have specific. numbers, we are currently in a bradley? i don't have specific- numbers, we are currently in a close period. we would expect provisions to rise very slightly in line with arrears as customers move into different stages for reporting purposes, i do not have the figures but can happily share with the committee in writing once they are available. ., ., committee in writing once they are available-_ l _ committee in writing once they are available._ i would i committee in writing once they are available._ i would echo | available. charlotte? iwould echo bradle , available. charlotte? iwould echo bradley, provisioning _ available. charlotte? iwould echo bradley, provisioning will- available. charlotte? iwould echo bradley, provisioning will reflect l bradley, provisioning will reflect the quality of our book, a would increase — the quality of our book, a would increase a — the quality of our book, a would increase a small increase in that —— expect— increase a small increase in that —— expect a _

increase a small increase in that —— expect a small increase. it is reflected _ expect a small increase. it is reflected on various performers to date _ reflected on various performers to date. �* we reflected on various performers to date.- we reporting i reflected on various performers to date.- we reporting two i reflected on various performers to i date.- we reporting two weeks date. andrew? we reporting two weeks but the provision _ date. andrew? we reporting two weeks but the provision will _ date. andrew? we reporting two weeks but the provision will reflect _ date. andrew? we reporting two weeks but the provision will reflect the - but the provision will reflect the underlying — but the provision will reflect the underlying quality _ but the provision will reflect the underlying quality injury- but the provision will reflect the underlying quality injury as i but the provision will reflect the underlying quality injury as we i but the provision will reflect the i underlying quality injury as we are seeing _ underlying quality injury as we are seeing in — underlying quality injury as we are seeing in the _ underlying quality injury as we are seeing in the portfolio _ underlying quality injury as we are seeing in the portfolio —— - underlying quality injury as we are seeing in the portfolio —— we - underlying quality injury as we are. seeing in the portfolio —— we report in two _ seeing in the portfolio —— we report in two weeks — seeing in the portfolio -- we report in two weeks-— seeing in the portfolio -- we report in two weeks._ like i in two weeks. nationwide? like santander— in two weeks. nationwide? like santander our— in two weeks. nationwide? like santander our arrears _ in two weeks. nationwide? like santander our arrears rates i in two weeks. nationwide? like i santander our arrears rates remain below pre—pandemic levels, we have not seen material movement in arrears. we have applied some adjustments to reflect borrowing for affordability impacts, which increased provision in ourfour year results which will be published in april. our provision coverage ratios is 0.14%, more skewed towards buy to let than residential. in is 0.14%, more skewed towards buy to let than residential.— is 0.1496, more skewed towards buy to let than residential.— let than residential. in terms of the second _ let than residential. in terms of the second half— let than residential. in terms of the second half of _ let than residential. in terms of the second half of the - let than residential. in terms of the second half of the year, - let than residential. in terms of the second half of the year, it l let than residential. in terms of i the second half of the year, it has been reported there are lots of people who took out two year fixed

rates and they will be coming to an end and they took out those rates when there was the stamp duty holiday to reflect the pandemic conditions. do you model what you have upcoming and do you think the picture you have painted for us today will change markedly if we see you again in six months? who wants to start? i you again in six months? who wants to start? . ., , _ ., , ., to start? i am happy to start. i think there _ to start? i am happy to start. i think there is _ to start? i am happy to start. i think there is a _ to start? i am happy to start. i think there is a few _ to start? i am happy to start. i think there is a few drivers - to start? i am happy to start. i- think there is a few drivers around the performance of book for customers entering financial difficulty. bradley has touched on some, we stress test customers at a higher interest rate environment, we stretch affordability to ensure we are future proofing as much as we can that the customers can maintain answer for those repayments. we can that the customers can maintain answerfor those repayments. we also know that for customers that will mature this year, whether from a two

year or five year fixed period, mature this year, whether from a two year orfive yearfixed period, for the most part they had been making capital repayment so the balance will have been reducing overtime. we also know we have just come out of double—digit house price growth and therefore while those customers have been repaying the capital balances on mortgages they have also benefited from movements in hpi and therefore afforded more equity in therefore afforded more equity in the properties. 50 i think what i expect to see over the next six months as we will see more customers with financial stress. i expect that to be relative to the market and i think there are options available for those customers as well and customers are experiencing financial difficulties so we can explore which forbearance measures may be appropriate or not. i would expect we see more financial stress than to

date but i also understand that will be spread quite differently across households and felt differently. studio: mortgage bosses speaking to the commons select committee. what do you think? tell us. in terms of the payment increase, it's important to recognise what that means for customers. currently mortgage _ that means for customers. currently mortgage rates are somewhere between, on the market, save 5.5 — 6.5, _ between, on the market, save 5.5 — 6.5, depending on the lender, at 6% the payment increase for customers coming _ the payment increase for customers coming up _ the payment increase for customers coming up a — the payment increase for customers coming up a rate of circa 2.3%... it is significant — coming up a rate of circa 2.3%... it is significant in more commerce this environment — is significant in more commerce this environment you would expect therefore to charlotte the's point you would expect customers are more customers— you would expect customers are more customers to have financial difficulty. its customers to have financial difficulty-— difficulty. a couple of bills, similar to _ difficulty. a couple of bills, similar to everyone - difficulty. a couple of bills, similar to everyone else i difficulty. a couple of bills, | similar to everyone else we difficulty. a couple of bills, - similar to everyone else we stressed his customers to make sure they can afford a much higher payment, than they would be paying today. we also

allow customers to lock into a rate six months ahead of their product maturing, and that gives them options to not onlyjust blocking a rate today but start planning for the higher rate six months ahead so it does give customers some opportunity to start planning if they have an increasing rate coming down the line. the other thing i would say is that historically mortgage arrears have been highly correlated with unemployment, and undoubtedly the financial cost of living crisis and inflation is really challenging but while unemployment is still low, that obviously provides people with options and finding different ways to manage their payments is challenging but they still have, unemployment is still low... that moves us — unemployment is still low... that moves us nicely _ unemployment is still low... that moves us nicely into _ unemployment is still low... that moves us nicely into the - unemployment is still low... trust moves us nicely into the subject of the mortgage charger. goad moves us nicely into the sub'ect of the mortgage charger. good morning and thank yom _

the mortgage charger. good morning and thank yom i _ the mortgage charger. good morning and thank you. i wondered _ the mortgage charger. good morning and thank you. i wondered if - the mortgage charger. good morning and thank you. i wondered if you - and thank you. i wondered if you could quickly run through how much of an impact you expect the mortgage charger to have? who would like to start? on the left.— start? on the left. soon i think is the honest— start? on the left. soon i think is the honest answer, _ start? on the left. soon i think is the honest answer, we _ start? on the left. soon i think is the honest answer, we saw- start? on the left. soon i think is the honest answer, we saw highl the honest answer, we saw high take—up of payment rates during the holiday, different options, different period, in context we saw over 25,000 people take a payment holiday in the first few days of the option being there in march 2020. 100,002 weeks and over 200,000 over the duration of the availability of those options, so that gives a bit of a benchmark, it is hard to say fully what he take—up rates will be, my personal view is it will be lower. i think the key change we are seeing, to put it into context, all the options in the mortgage charger

are available today, including the concession, for example. the key changes those options, particularly interest on the concessions, will be available without affordability assessment and without an impact on credit form so at the moment we see about 100 customers a month taking that option but we know the credit file impact as a barrier to people taking it up, so that gives you kind of the range that it could be, and i think the important component customers need to understand is that if they do take an interest only concession, six months, or the extent term, they will ultimately pay more interest. so that is something we are including within the application process for those options, and so probably the message for me will be only think these options if you need to because there will be a long—term cost. if

will be a long—term cost. if everyone else, if there are things you want to add to the point henry has made that would be helpful. andrew then charlotte? i has made that would be helpful. andrew then charlotte?- has made that would be helpful. andrew then charlotte? i think we welcome the _ andrew then charlotte? i think we welcome the mortgage _ andrew then charlotte? i think we welcome the mortgage charger, i andrew then charlotte? i think we | welcome the mortgage charger, we think it _ welcome the mortgage charger, we think it is _ welcome the mortgage charger, we think it is helpful for consumers and customers to have a clear idea of what _ and customers to have a clear idea of what banks will offer them and i think— of what banks will offer them and i think this — of what banks will offer them and i think this provides that —— one. we provide _ think this provides that —— one. we provide a _ think this provides that —— one. we provide a number of these options for customers already, the opportunity to fix six months before maturity. _ opportunity to fix six months before maturity, but it does provide consumers and customers with a deal of clarity— consumers and customers with a deal of clarity on _ consumers and customers with a deal of clarity on what they can do in can expect _ of clarity on what they can do in can expect from the lenders. it is a build on that _ can expect from the lenders. it is a build on that point, _ can expect from the lenders. it is a build on that point, i _ can expect from the lenders. it is a build on that point, i think - can expect from the lenders. it is a build on that point, i think in - build on that point, i think in terms — build on that point, i think in terms of— build on that point, i think in terms of level— build on that point, i think in terms of level of— build on that point, i think in terms of level of take—up, i build on that point, i think in i terms of level of take—up, and customers— terms of level of take—up, and customers seeking _ terms of level of take—up, and customers seeking those - terms of level of take—up, and . customers seeking those options, terms of level of take—up, and - customers seeking those options, it remains _ customers seeking those options, it remains to— customers seeking those options, it remains to he— customers seeking those options, it remains to be seen, _ customers seeking those options, it remains to be seen, and _ customers seeking those options, it remains to be seen, and to - customers seeking those options, it remains to be seen, and to henry'sl remains to be seen, and to henry's point, _ remains to be seen, and to henry's point, i_ remains to be seen, and to henry's point, i would _ remains to be seen, and to henry's point, i would expect— remains to be seen, and to henry's point, i would expect that - remains to be seen, and to henry's point, i would expect that would i remains to be seen, and to henry'sj point, i would expect that would be lower— point, i would expect that would be lower than— point, i would expect that would be lower than what _ point, i would expect that would be lower than what we _ point, i would expect that would be lower than what we saw— point, i would expect that would be lower than what we saw with - point, i would expect that would be . lower than what we saw with payment referrals _ lower than what we saw with payment referrals during — lower than what we saw with payment referrals during the _ lower than what we saw with payment referrals during the pandemic. - referrals during the pandemic. touching — referrals during the pandemic. touching on _ referrals during the pandemic. touching on your— referrals during the pandemic. touching on your points - referrals during the pandemic. touching on your points are i referrals during the pandemic. - touching on your points are customer

certainty. _ touching on your points are customer certainty. it— touching on your points are customer certainty. it is— touching on your points are customer certainty, it is a— touching on your points are customer certainty, it is a different _ certainty, it is a different environment _ certainty, it is a different environment we - certainty, it is a different environment we are - certainty, it is a different environment we are in. certainty, it is a different - environment we are in today. certainty, it is a different _ environment we are in today. there is very— environment we are in today. there is very little — environment we are in today. there is very little certainty— environment we are in today. there is very little certainty about - environment we are in today. there is very little certainty about what i is very little certainty about what it meant — is very little certainty about what it meant for _ is very little certainty about what it meant for employment - is very little certainty about what it meant for employment and - is very little certainty about what i it meant for employment and work is very little certainty about what - it meant for employment and work in what customers — it meant for employment and work in what customers understand - it meant for employment and work in what customers understand knows i it meant for employment and work in i what customers understand knows what the certainty— what customers understand knows what the certainty of— what customers understand knows what the certainty of pay _ what customers understand knows what the certainty of pay might _ what customers understand knows what the certainty of pay might look- what customers understand knows what the certainty of pay might look like - the certainty of pay might look like across _ the certainty of pay might look like across the — the certainty of pay might look like across the next _ the certainty of pay might look like across the next 12—24 _ the certainty of pay might look like across the next 12—24 months - the certainty of pay might look like across the next 12—24 months in. the certainty of pay might look likel across the next 12—24 months in the options _ across the next 12—24 months in the options available _ across the next 12—24 months in the options available so _ across the next 12—24 months in the options available so i _ across the next 12—24 months in the options available so i would - across the next 12—24 months in the options available so i would expectl options available so i would expect it to hem — options available so i would expect it to he... equally— options available so i would expect it to be... equally preparing - options available so i would expect it to be... equally preparing for. it to be... equally preparing for customer— it to be... equally preparing for customer inquiries _ it to be... equally preparing for customer inquiries coming - it to be... equally preparing for customer inquiries coming to l it to be... equally preparing for. customer inquiries coming to us. anything — customer inquiries coming to us. anything to — customer inquiries coming to us. anything to add _ customer inquiries coming to us. anything to add m _ customer inquiries coming to us. anything to add— customer inquiries coming to us. anything to add 1.2 add would be what we've _ anything to add 1.2 add would be what we've seen _ anything to add 1.2 add would be what we've seen most _ anything to add 1.2 add would be what we've seen most recently . anything to add 1.2 add would be what we've seen most recently is anything to add 1.2 add would be i what we've seen most recently is a point henry reyes, customers who have a mortgage product that is expiring over the last few months, less than li% of those customers are inquiring about a mortgage to charter type solution, a term extension or a conversion of their mortgage to help affordability so we would expect the numbers to be lower than the pandemic in terms of the payment holiday situation but... more likely to extend terms, the length of repayment? it

more likely to extend terms, the length of repayment?— more likely to extend terms, the length of repayment? it would depend on the customer's _ length of repayment? it would depend on the customer's circumstance - length of repayment? it would depend on the customer's circumstance and i on the customer's circumstance and what we would encourage them to do is to contact as lenders talk through those options and understand all the options before they decide because of a customer can afford the increase payments to longer term it's better for them because increase payments to longer term it's betterfor them because they pay less interest. it's better for them because they pay less interest.— pay less interest. from the treasury- _ pay less interest. from the treasury. lloyds _ pay less interest. from the treasury. lloyds banking i pay less interest. from the - treasury. lloyds banking group, santander, skipton building society, the chief executive of paragon banking group, your questions and points, their answers, coming banking group, your questions and points, theiranswers, coming up. the prime minister has said that allegations made in the sun newspaper about a bbc presenter "where shocking and concerning allegations". speaking to journalists while travelling to nato

rishi sunak said the government has been assured the bbc is investigating and the process being undertaken is rigorous and will be swift given the concerning nature of the allegations, it is right they are investigated swiftly and rigorously, and it's important we now let that carry on the prime minister reporting on the current scandal involving a bbc presenter, allegations printed in sun newspaper. your reaction to what you have heard thus far. from the treasury select committee, the big mortgage bosses, get in touch. a personal finance mortgage bosses, get in touch. a personalfinance expert mortgage bosses, get in touch. a personal finance expert still with us, and so more callers. a mortgage broker. sally, welcome. they were talking there about the mortgage charter, can you explain that? yes. charter, can you explain that? yes, basically a — charter, can you explain that? yes, basically a little _ charter, can you explain that? yes, basically a little while _ charter, can you explain that? yes, basically a little while ago - charter, can you explain that? ia: basically a little while ago some charter, can you explain that? is: basically a little while ago some of the very big lenders got together with the chancellor and came up with

a plan to help those who might be struggling with the increased rates on their mortgage, their fixed—rate mortgages. the reaction was positive overall, but as brokers we have yet to see the wheel nuts and bolts on basis of how it is going to be rolled out and how it is going to work. they are starting to announce to their customers and we are getting copied in on that, but although it's really helpful and i will,, it's a little bit like a sticking plaster on quite a big cut. sonia, good morning. you are in a bad stay at the moment, a new? i certainly am, absolutely furious

with santander, my mortgage has agreed _ with santander, my mortgage has agreed to— with santander, my mortgage has agreed to be interest only and i make _ agreed to be interest only and i make payments every month, almost every _ make payments every month, almost every month since liz truss went through— every month since liz truss went through the revolving door of downing _ through the revolving door of downing street my mortgage has gone up downing street my mortgage has gone up and _ downing street my mortgage has gone up and it— downing street my mortgage has gone up and it is— downing street my mortgage has gone up and it is close to double what it was before — up and it is close to double what it was before then, 70 something percent — was before then, 70 something percent more. i out of the blue received — percent more. i out of the blue received a _ percent more. i out of the blue received a letter in february from santander, — received a letter in february from santander, who said we are taking you to _ santander, who said we are taking you to court, and last week i got a letter— you to court, and last week i got a letter from — you to court, and last week i got a letter from the court saying that there _ letter from the court saying that there is — letter from the court saying that there is a — letter from the court saying that there is a court hearing on the 11th of august. — there is a court hearing on the 11th of august, so the likelihood is i will go — of august, so the likelihood is i will go to— of august, so the likelihood is i will go to court on the 11th of august— will go to court on the 11th of august and be told i've got 28 days to get— august and be told i've got 28 days to get out — august and be told i've got 28 days to get out of my house. the only help _ to get out of my house. the only help santander have offered since it is here _ help santander have offered since it is here is— help santander have offered since it is here is the phone number for shelter~ — is here is the phone number for shelter~ as— is here is the phone number for shelter. as you —— if you ring them as i shelter. as you —— if you ring them as l have _ shelter. as you —— if you ring them as l have been _ shelter. as you —— if you ring them as i have been doing almost everyday since i_ as i have been doing almost everyday since i got _

as i have been doing almost everyday since i got a — as i have been doing almost everyday since i got a hearing date, what you .et since i got a hearing date, what you get is _ since i got a hearing date, what you get is a _ since i got a hearing date, what you get is a recorded message you which button _ get is a recorded message you which button to— get is a recorded message you which button to press and then to wait and wait and _ button to press and then to wait and wait and wait until the amount of time _ wait and wait until the amount of time has — wait and wait until the amount of time has passed that they cut you off. time has passed that they cut you off that — time has passed that they cut you off that is— time has passed that they cut you off. that is the number of people who are — off. that is the number of people who are calling shelter at the moment— who are calling shelter at the moment because of this. or what you 'ust moment because of this. or what you just heard, _ moment because of this. or what you just heard, the big brass talking, they don't— just heard, the big brass talking, they don't care about ordinary people. — they don't care about ordinary people, they are not interested in what _ people, they are not interested in what is _ people, they are not interested in what is going on, where we are going to live _ what is going on, where we are going to live or— what is going on, where we are going to live or what is going to happen, they are _ to live or what is going to happen, they are just interested in getting a hold _ they are just interested in getting a hold of— they are just interested in getting a hold of our houses and selling them _ a hold of our houses and selling them on — a hold of our houses and selling them on. ., ,, a hold of our houses and selling them on. ., i. ,, a hold of our houses and selling them on. ., y., ,, ., them on. for you. shelter, that brinrs them on. for you. shelter, that brings home. — them on. for you. shelter, that brings home, doesn't _ them on. for you. shelter, that brings home, doesn't it? - them on. for you. shelter, that| brings home, doesn't it? things them on. for you. shelter, that - brings home, doesn't it? things like that don't happen _ brings home, doesn't it? things like that don't happen to _ brings home, doesn't it? things like that don't happen to people - brings home, doesn't it? things like that don't happen to people like - brings home, doesn't it? things like that don't happen to people like me| that don't happen to people like me but clearly— that don't happen to people like me but clearly they do. the bank actually — but clearly they do. the bank actually owns about what i —— they

own about — actually owns about what i —— they own about a — actually owns about what i —— they own about a fifth, they can come and take the _ own about a fifth, they can come and take the garage, they don't see a bit more — take the garage, they don't see a bit more for in this take the garage, they don't see a bit more for in— bit more for in this marty, who in their right _ bit more for in this marty, who in their right mind _ bit more for in this marty, who in their right mind wants _ bit more for in this marty, who in their right mind wants to - bit more for in this marty, who in their right mind wants to buy - bit more for in this marty, who in their right mind wants to buy a i their right mind wants to buy a house and take on a mortgage in this market. if you are young you are going to stay living with your parents. if you've got a place you can hardly afford as if you're not going to take on a bigger mortgage. santander would no doubt dispute what you have said and they are not here, i have to say that, we are hearing a story from you that more and more people will be encountering. i'm looking at the repossessions figures... thea;r encountering. i'm looking at the repossessions figures... they were sa inc , repossessions figures... they were saying. the — repossessions figures... they were saying. the big _ repossessions figures... they were saying, the big bosses _ repossessions figures... they were saying, the big bosses talking - repossessions figures... they were saying, the big bosses talking to i saying, the big bosses talking to people _ saying, the big bosses talking to people on the committee saying that

is going _ people on the committee saying that is going down, people are finding the money and paying more in going on to— the money and paying more in going on to interest only or whatever. i've got — on to interest only or whatever. i've got some stats here. a total of 1260 homes repossessed in the first three months this year due to mixed mortgage payments, a 50% increase from last quarter, but the increase is from a lady low basis historic cases are making their way through the courts. it is low, comparison, it is beginning to kick in. cera joins us in glasgow, what it's looking like for you? i joins us in glasgow, what it's looking like for you? i bought a ro -e looking like for you? i bought a property in _ looking like for you? i bought a property in 2020 _ looking like for you? i bought a property in 2020 and _ looking like for you? i bought a property in 2020 and i - looking like for you? i bought a property in 2020 and i suppose looking like for you? i bought a . property in 2020 and i suppose we got hit at that point with having to put down 20% due to the uncertainty.

over it, so we did that, that pretty much took all your savings and we went to a two—year fixed rate, we would at 2.1% on there we have went on to the, chosen to go on a tracker, 5% above the base rate so obviously that's going to fluctuate but when we made the decision a few weeks ago, that's what we are. the, obviously comes with more uncertainty and are not in the same position as sonia on the line just now, but it is about, roughly about £500 extra a month, in terms of what that means for us is you're trying to think about maternity leave in all these other factors that come into play, and we are in our 30s, it makes things a wee bit more challenging, luxuries you are not getting, but i suppose it's important to mention that there is

nowhere near as he position looking at repossessions on things but i just think, people need time, they need consistency and we are not really getting that from the governmentjust now unfortunately, government just now unfortunately, in governmentjust now unfortunately, in terms of the confidence input in as as young buyers. we bought when we were 25 without parental help and then we moved a bigger property in 2020, again, it is a challenging time to be a homeowner and to be dealing with this, especially when you are going and, and it will give you are going and, and it will give you warning at the bottom of the most aiming that the interest rate goes up, but you don't expect the levels that we are seeing just now. a perfect storm, a horrible son. sonia, do you want to come back? —— horrible storm. sonia, do you want to come back? -- horrible storm.— horrible storm. there isn't much more i can _ horrible storm. there isn't much more i can say — horrible storm. there isn't much more i can say about _ horrible storm. there isn't much more i can say about my - horrible storm. there isn't much i

more i can say about my situation. mortgage — more i can say about my situation. mortgage lenders seem to have lost the plot. _ mortgage lenders seem to have lost the plot, i'm in my 60s now, when i first took— the plot, i'm in my 60s now, when i first took out — the plot, i'm in my 60s now, when i first took out a mortgage myself and my boyfriend at the time were told you can _ my boyfriend at the time were told you can borrow 1.5 times the lower salary— you can borrow 1.5 times the lower salary and — you can borrow 1.5 times the lower salary and 2.5 times the higher salary. — salary and 2.5 times the higher salary, there are not many people who could — salary, there are not many people who could get a mortgage at all on those _ who could get a mortgage at all on those figures these days. my daughter lived in london, herand her husband had a mortgage, they can only afford _ her husband had a mortgage, they can only afford a _ her husband had a mortgage, they can only afford a two—bedroom flat, they have a _ only afford a two—bedroom flat, they have a child — only afford a two—bedroom flat, they have a child coming up for two now and would — have a child coming up for two now and would like to move to a house with a _ and would like to move to a house with a garden. she is a teacher, we all know— with a garden. she is a teacher, we all know how— with a garden. she is a teacher, we all know how they are paid, they cannot— all know how they are paid, they cannot afford to move. they are trapped — cannot afford to move. they are trapped in — cannot afford to move. they are trapped in a two—bedroom flat with a shared _ trapped in a two—bedroom flat with a shared garden, the key quadrangle shared _ shared garden, the key quadrangle shared for— shared garden, the key quadrangle shared for the whole block. this situation — shared for the whole block. this situation is _ shared for the whole block. this situation is untenable for the nation, — situation is untenable for the nation, we cannot carry on the way we are _ nation, we cannot carry on the way we are i'm — nation, we cannot carry on the way we are. i'm going to be outside the council— we are. i'm going to be outside the council office in a couple of months

with a _ council office in a couple of months with a couple of carrier bags saying can you _ with a couple of carrier bags saying can you find — with a couple of carrier bags saying can you find a hotel room for me or whatever~ — can you find a hotel room for me or whatever. and young people who have .ood whatever. and young people who have good jobs _ whatever. and young people who have good jobs can't find somewhere to live. good jobs can't find somewhere to live it _ good jobs can't find somewhere to live it is _ good jobs can't find somewhere to live it is a — good jobs can't find somewhere to live. it is a nightmare, for ordinary— live. it is a nightmare, for ordinary people, who don't earn the kind of— ordinary people, who don't earn the kind of money that people in government on both sides of the house. _ government on both sides of the house, actually, they have all been privately— house, actually, they have all been privately educated. the}r house, actually, they have all been privately educated.— house, actually, they have all been privately educated. they haven't all been, privately educated. they haven't all been. but--- _ privately educated. they haven't all been, but... ok, _ privately educated. they haven't all been, but... ok, but— privately educated. they haven't all been, but... ok, but a _ privately educated. they haven't all been, but... ok, but a large - privately educated. they haven't all. been, but... ok, but a large number. well, i been, but... ok, but a large number. well. i can — been, but... ok, but a large number. well, i can understand _ been, but... ok, but a large number. well, i can understand the _ been, but... ok, but a large number. well, i can understand the reason - well, i can understand the reason for your rhetoric. i well, i can understand the reason for your rhetoric.— for your rhetoric. i think people have had a _ for your rhetoric. i think people have had a very _ for your rhetoric. i think people have had a very easy _ for your rhetoric. i think people have had a very easy ride - for your rhetoric. i think people have had a very easy ride for i for your rhetoric. i think people l have had a very easy ride for the last 15-20 — have had a very easy ride for the last 15—20 years, _ have had a very easy ride for the last 15—20 years, as _ have had a very easy ride for the last 15—20 years, as a _ have had a very easy ride for the last 15—20 years, as a single - have had a very easy ride for the i last 15—20 years, as a single parent i paid _ last15—20 years, as a single parent i paid off— last15—20 years, as a single parent i paid off my— last 15—20 years, as a single parent i paid off my mortgage, _ last 15—20 years, as a single parent i paid off my mortgage, it - last 15—20 years, as a single parent i paid off my mortgage, it was - last 15—20 years, as a single parentl i paid off my mortgage, it was quite a struggle _

i paid off my mortgage, it was quite a struggle before _ i paid off my mortgage, it was quite a struggle before they— i paid off my mortgage, it was quite a struggle before they mortgage - a struggle before they mortgage rates _ a struggle before they mortgage rates were — a struggle before they mortgage rates were so— a struggle before they mortgage rates were so low— a struggle before they mortgage rates were so low i— a struggle before they mortgage rates were so low i managed - a struggle before they mortgage rates were so low i managed to| a struggle before they mortgage i rates were so low i managed to do that. _ rates were so low i managed to do that. but— rates were so low i managed to do that. but in— rates were so low i managed to do that. but in the— rates were so low i managed to do that, but in the time _ rates were so low i managed to do that, but in the time when- rates were so low i managed to do that, but in the time when i- rates were so low i managed to doi that, but in the time when i bought my first _ that, but in the time when i bought my first flat. — that, but in the time when i bought my first flat. i— that, but in the time when i bought my first flat, i was _ that, but in the time when i bought my first flat, i was paying - that, but in the time when i bought my first flat, i was paying over- that, but in the time when i bought my first flat, i was paying over 200j my first flat, i was paying over 200 a month— my first flat, i was paying over 200 a monthiust — my first flat, i was paying over 200 a monthiust in _ my first flat, i was paying over 200 a monthjust in interest— my first flat, i was paying over 200 a monthjust in interest charges, . my first flat, i was paying over 200 a monthjust in interest charges, ii a monthjust in interest charges, i couldn't— a monthjust in interest charges, i couldn't afford _ a monthjust in interest charges, i couldn't afford to _ a monthjust in interest charges, i couldn't afford to pay _ a monthjust in interest charges, i couldn't afford to pay off- a monthjust in interest charges, i couldn't afford to pay off the - couldn't afford to pay off the mortgage _ couldn't afford to pay off the mortgage as— couldn't afford to pay off the mortgage as well, _ couldn't afford to pay off the mortgage as well, but - couldn't afford to pay off the i mortgage as well, but people couldn't afford to pay off the - mortgage as well, but people these days have _ mortgage as well, but people these days have such— mortgage as well, but people these days have such a _ mortgage as well, but people these days have such a high— mortgage as well, but people these days have such a high expectation, i days have such a high expectation, they expect — days have such a high expectation, they expect more _ days have such a high expectation, they expect more than _ days have such a high expectation, they expect more than 1—2 - days have such a high expectation, they expect more than 1—2 — - days have such a high expectation, they expect more than 1—2 — threel they expect more than 1—2 — three casa _ they expect more than 1—2 — three casa family. — they expect more than 1—2 — three casa family. two _ they expect more than 1—2 — three casa family, two or— they expect more than 1—2 — three casa family, two or three - they expect more than 1—2 — three casa family, two or three foreign. casa family, two or three foreign holidays — casa family, two or three foreign holidays a — casa family, two or three foreign holidays a year. _ casa family, two or three foreign holidays a year, who _ casa family, two or three foreign holidays a year, who had - casa family, two or three foreign holidays a year, who had peoplel holidays a year, who had people plucking — holidays a year, who had people plucking at — holidays a year, who had people plucking at gatwick, _ holidays a year, who had people plucking at gatwick, they- holidays a year, who had people plucking at gatwick, they can i holidays a year, who had people . plucking at gatwick, they can afford to go _ plucking at gatwick, they can afford to go away? — plucking at gatwick, they can afford to go away? they— plucking at gatwick, they can afford to go away? they got _ plucking at gatwick, they can afford to go away? they got mortgages, i to go away? they got mortgages, plenty— to go away? they got mortgages, plenty of— to go away? they got mortgages, plenty of money. _ to go away? they got mortgages, plenty of money. the _ to go away? they got mortgages, | plenty of money. the government helps _ plenty of money. the government helps them — plenty of money. the government helps them out _ plenty of money. the government helps them out with _ plenty of money. the government helps them out with their - plenty of money. the government helps them out with their bills - plenty of money. the governmentj helps them out with their bills and they still— helps them out with their bills and they still have _ helps them out with their bills and they still have holiday— helps them out with their bills and they still have holiday money- helps them out with their bills and they still have holiday money and| they still have holiday money and other— they still have holiday money and other people _ they still have holiday money and other people have _ they still have holiday money and other people have their— they still have holiday money and other people have their nails - they still have holiday money and| other people have their nails done every— other people have their nails done every five — other people have their nails done every five minutes, _ other people have their nails done every five minutes, have - other people have their nails done every five minutes, have tatties, i every five minutes, have tatties, they— every five minutes, have tatties, they drink. — every five minutes, have tatties, they drink, smoke, _ every five minutes, have tatties, they drink, smoke, eat - every five minutes, have tatties, they drink, smoke, eat out, - every five minutes, have tatties, they drink, smoke, eat out, buyl every five minutes, have tatties, - they drink, smoke, eat out, buyjunk food. _ they drink, smoke, eat out, buyjunk food. why— they drink, smoke, eat out, buyjunk food. why don't — they drink, smoke, eat out, buyjunk food, why don't we _ they drink, smoke, eat out, buyjunk food, why don't we go _ they drink, smoke, eat out, buyjunk food, why don't we go back - they drink, smoke, eat out, buyjunk food, why don't we go back to - they drink, smoke, eat out, buyjunk food, why don't we go back to the i food, why don't we go back to the old values — food, why don't we go back to the old values were _ food, why don't we go back to the old values were people _ food, why don't we go back to the old values were people had - food, why don't we go back to the old values were people had to - old values were people had to actually — old values were people had to actually make _ old values were people had to actually make sacrifices - old values were people had to actually make sacrifices and i old values were people had to i actually make sacrifices and give their— actually make sacrifices and give their children _ actually make sacrifices and give their children ordinary— actually make sacrifices and give their children ordinary food - actually make sacrifices and give their children ordinary food and i their children ordinary food and then— their children ordinary food and then they— their children ordinary food and then they could _ their children ordinary food and then they could easily- their children ordinary food and then they could easily afford i their children ordinary food and then they could easily afford toj their children ordinary food and - then they could easily afford to pay their mortgage. _ then they could easily afford to pay

their mortgage, it _ then they could easily afford to pay their mortgage, it would _ then they could easily afford to pay their mortgage, it would not - then they could easily afford to pay their mortgage, it would not be - then they could easily afford to pay their mortgage, it would not be a l their mortgage, it would not be a problem — their mortgage, it would not be a problem at — their mortgage, it would not be a problem at all... _ their mortgage, it would not be a problem at all. . .— their mortgage, it would not be a problem at all... goodness me. i'm absorbin: problem at all... goodness me. i'm absorbing it- _ problem at all... goodness me. i'm absorbing it. where _ problem at all... goodness me. i'm absorbing it. where do _ problem at all... goodness me. i'm absorbing it. where do tatters - problem at all... goodness me. i'm| absorbing it. where do tatters come into it? —— tad twos. i absorbing it. where do tatters come into it? -- tad twos.— into it? -- tad twos. i don't have any myself. _ into it? -- tad twos. i don't have any myself. my _ into it? -- tad twos. i don't have any myself, my daughter - into it? -- tad twos. i don't have any myself, my daughter has - into it? -- tad twos. i don't have i any myself, my daughter has them into it? -- tad twos. i don't have - any myself, my daughter has them and she is— any myself, my daughter has them and she is a _ any myself, my daughter has them and she is a very— any myself, my daughter has them and she is a very hard — any myself, my daughter has them and she is a very hard worker— any myself, my daughter has them and she is a very hard worker but _ any myself, my daughter has them and she is a very hard worker but i- any myself, my daughter has them and she is a very hard worker but i feel- she is a very hard worker but i feel sorry— she is a very hard worker but i feel sorry for— she is a very hard worker but i feel sorry for the — she is a very hard worker but i feel sorry for the people _ she is a very hard worker but i feel sorry for the people who _ she is a very hard worker but i feel sorry for the people who rent. - she is a very hard worker but i feel sorry for the people who rent. myl sorry for the people who rent. my daughter— sorry for the people who rent. my daughter has _ sorry for the people who rent. my daughter has had _ sorry for the people who rent. my daughter has had to _ sorry for the people who rent. my daughter has had to move - sorry for the people who rent. my daughter has had to move back. sorry for the people who rent. my daughter has had to move back in with me _ daughter has had to move back in with me rather— daughter has had to move back in with me rather than _ daughter has had to move back in with me rather than pay- daughter has had to move back in| with me rather than pay exorbitant rent. _ with me rather than pay exorbitant rent. because— with me rather than pay exorbitant rent, because otherwise _ with me rather than pay exorbitant rent, because otherwise she - with me rather than pay exorbitantj rent, because otherwise she would with me rather than pay exorbitant. rent, because otherwise she would be paying _ rent, because otherwise she would be paying off _ rent, because otherwise she would be paying off someone _ rent, because otherwise she would be paying off someone miss _ rent, because otherwise she would be paying off someone miss mortgage. i rent, because otherwise she would be| paying off someone miss mortgage. it is all very— paying off someone miss mortgage. it is all very unbalanced, _ paying off someone miss mortgage. it is all very unbalanced, the _ paying off someone miss mortgage. it is all very unbalanced, the whole - is all very unbalanced, the whole damn _ is all very unbalanced, the whole damn thing _ is all very unbalanced, the whole damn thing. but _ is all very unbalanced, the whole damn thing. but i— is all very unbalanced, the whole damn thing. but i still— is all very unbalanced, the whole damn thing. but i still think- is all very unbalanced, the whole damn thing. but i still think that| damn thing. but i still think that mortgage — damn thing. but i still think that mortgage people. _ damn thing. but i still think that mortgage people, people - damn thing. but i still think that mortgage people, people have i damn thing. but i still think that - mortgage people, people have been on a mortgage _ mortgage people, people have been on a mortgage for— mortgage people, people have been on a mortgage for the _ mortgage people, people have been on a mortgage for the last— mortgage people, people have been on a mortgage for the last 15—20 _ mortgage people, people have been on a mortgage for the last 15—20 years - a mortgage for the last 15—20 years have been— a mortgage for the last 15—20 years have been living _ a mortgage for the last 15—20 years have been living in _ a mortgage for the last 15—20 years have been living in la _ a mortgage for the last 15—20 years have been living in la la _ a mortgage for the last 15—20 years have been living in la la land, - have been living in la la land, basically _ have been living in la la land, basicall . have been living in la la land, basically-— have been living in la la land, basicall . . ., ., ., basically. ok... we are going to take a few _ basically. ok... we are going to take a few moments _ basically. ok... we are going to take a few moments to - basically. ok... we are going to take a few moments to process | basically. ok... we are going to - take a few moments to process what you've just said, take a few moments to process what you'vejust said, it take a few moments to process what

you've just said, it was quite a list. it is what we are all about. we can process it while we listen to the following, the prime minister has just arrived for a nato summit, been asked about the stories we've been asked about the stories we've been covering this morning as well as nato. let's get a bit of what he said. it as nato. let's get a bit of what he said. . . as nato. let's get a bit of what he said. , ., ., , said. it is great to be here in lithuania _ said. it is great to be here in lithuania for _ said. it is great to be here in lithuania for the _ said. it is great to be here in lithuania for the nato - said. it is great to be here in i lithuania for the nato summit. said. it is great to be here in - lithuania for the nato summit. the last 500 days of vladimir putin's war in ukraine has reminded us of the enduring unity and importance of this very special military alliance, which the uk has been at the heart of for the entire time of its existence. priorities for the summer or to strengthen that alliance we can face the threats of the future, protect ourselves adequately against them, but also to continue supporting ukraine in the face of russian aggression so they can continue to fight for their freedom. soldiers do matter and the top ten rota nato said the uk is losing

influence could you lose influence due to the size of the army. are you happy that the army is small and getting smaller? i happy that the army is small and getting smaller?— getting smaller? i think the uk should be incredibly _ getting smaller? i think the uk should be incredibly proud - getting smaller? i think the uk should be incredibly proud of i getting smaller? i think the uk i should be incredibly proud of the leading role we play notjust a nato across the world and protecting security and ended investing in our armed forces. when i was chancellor house oversaw the largest increase in defence spending since the ends of the cold war, most recently in the budget billions more again for our armed forces, while? because of threats we face that is at the increasing and it is right we invest to protect ourselves against that and that is notjust investing in the army, but across all our armed forces, and shifting alliances with other countries —— strengthening alliances with countries around the world. we are building the next generation of fighterjets with the japanese and italians and it is not only good for our security but creating thousands ofjobs at home. across the united kingdom every corner of our country is benefiting from the investment in defence we're putting it on the jobs is creating.

if you questions on other topics, on the bbc, what would your reaction when you heard about the allegations against a certain bbc presenter? yellow like they are very serious and concerning allegations and that's why amply is the culture secretary spoke to the director—general over the weekend and this confidently bbc is investigating this both rigorously and rapidly. ithink investigating this both rigorously and rapidly. i think that is the right course of action.- and rapidly. i think that is the right course of action. what would ou sa to right course of action. what would you say to people _ right course of action. what would you say to people on _ right course of action. what would you say to people on social - right course of action. what would | you say to people on social media? we have an existing set of laws that govern free speech and privacy. it is importantly bbc conduct this investigation quickly and rigorously, given the concerning and serious nature of the allegations. while we were on the plane we had fixed—rate mortgages and are now at the highest level for 15 years, you came into power to sort out liz truss' mess, it seems things are getting worse under your watch. i

know things are very difficult for many families up and in the country with the cost of living in the uk is not alone in experiencing a rise in interest rates, very similar in america, australia, canada, new zealand for example. if the crucial thing we have to do is bring inflation down, that's how we're going to ease the burden on families, that's how we're going to stop the increase in interest rates and that's why my first priority is to half inflation. that is proving to half inflation. that is proving to be more persistent than people thought, but it does not mean the course of action is wrong, we have to stick to it, i'm determined to bring inflation down, that's the best way we can easily cost of living pressures families are facing and i am absolutely determined to stick to the course.— stick to the course. finally, mps debatin: stick to the course. finally, mps debating immigration _ stick to the course. finally, mps debating immigration bill- stick to the course. finally, mps debating immigration bill in - debating immigration bill in parliament, you have a pledge to stop the boats, let's be frank, what does that mean? does that mean by the time of the next election when you pace the british public again that no one will cross the english channel illegally? i that no one will cross the english channel illegally?— channel illegally? i set out that riori to channel illegally? i set out that priority to stop _ channel illegally? i set out that priority to stop the _ channel illegally? i set out that priority to stop the boats - channel illegally? i set out that priority to stop the boats at - channel illegally? i set out that priority to stop the boats at the beginning of this year, i was very clear then that won't be easy and we

won't be able to solve it overnight, but i am determined to do it. and thatis but i am determined to do it. and that is why the government are committed to making progress on every aspect of tackling this problem, whether making sure we find alternative accommodation to get people out of hotels, whether working through the backlog that we have cut by almost a bed, whether returning illegal migrants to albania where we have now returned almost 2000 illegal migrants to albania and crucially why we as a government are bringing forward the toughest laws to tackle this problem that any government has ever done, laws which by the way have been a pose every turn by the labour party. i don't think that's right because i think the country wants the government to grip this problem, determined to throw absolutely everything out and i won't stop. . the boat does not mean the lobos, ? it means across all the issues, it is concerning the labour party has blocked them at every turn, that is

what we are seeing, that's not the priority of the british people who want the stops, it requires new laws which i brought forward. that's not all we are doing, we want to get people out of hotels we are finding alternative sites, we want to return people to albania, that's what we have a new deal, and we want to cut through the asylum backlog which is almost standby for. i want people to know i'm absolutely determined to this problem and i'm throwing everything i've got at it. aha. this problem and i'm throwing everything i've got at it. a range of matters _ everything i've got at it. a range of matters they _ everything i've got at it. a range of matters they are _ everything i've got at it. a range of matters they are at _ everything i've got at it. a range of matters they are at the - everything i've got at it. a range of matters they are at the nato l of matters they are at the nato summit, did mention mortgages, we've been discussing mortgages, and sally, mortgage broker, no need to comment on the other stuff but we have to address the highest mortgage rate, the average 6.6%, a devilish rate, the average 6.6%, a devilish rate a lot of stuff if you are here five minutes ago, you may well have

heard a litany, literally, and the overall point, taking away the titres in the junk food and other stuff, the overall point is you knew what you are getting into, that is the essence of it.— the essence of it. yes, from the --eole the essence of it. yes, from the people that _ the essence of it. yes, from the people that are _ the essence of it. yes, from the people that are funding, - the essence of it. yes, from the people that are funding, in, - the essence of it. yes, from the i people that are funding, in, we're getting a whole range of experiences and opinions, should be interesting. from the really quite tragic up to those who think we should pull up our socks. those who think we should pull up oursocks. i those who think we should pull up our socks. i hear it quite a lot that it could not go on forever, you are enjoying the rates for a very long time, what did you think was going to happen? i do get that, but of course no one could foresee this perfect storm, this range of events that have caused our present state, and is not particularly helpful, i'm

sorry leslie, to say get on with the, because for very many people as impossible just to get on with it, they just don't impossible just to get on with it, theyjust don't have that extra disposable income to pay onto their mortgages, and they go up by 300, 500, £700 a month. and it has come as quite a shock. when people took their mortgages out in the last five years or three years with low rates, now they're coming to the end of their fixes, now they're coming to the end of theirfixes, they now they're coming to the end of their fixes, they were stressed at a certain level above the base rate to ensure that if there was an increase in the base rate then they could do the increased payments which was really fantastic, but the reality now is that that base rate is so very much higher that it has not all the calculations of the table and people are faced with a very difficult situation.—

people are faced with a very difficult situation. sonia, all the best to you. _ difficult situation. sonia, all the best to you, thank _ difficult situation. sonia, all the best to you, thank you - difficult situation. sonia, all the best to you, thank you for - difficult situation. sonia, all the. best to you, thank you for telling us about what is a precariously worrying situation. got to say, a lot of people agreeing with leslie, not all, but dawn won, i agree with you last call, if something is too good to be true it is probably not that well done to the lady who spoke, the first time i've heard that said publicly. there is a fear more, i have to say, have to be with you. march, hello.— more, i have to say, have to be with you. march, hello. hello. i'm 60 and the house i'm _ you. march, hello. hello. i'm 60 and the house i'm living _ you. march, hello. hello. i'm 60 and the house i'm living in _ you. march, hello. hello. i'm 60 and the house i'm living in now, - you. march, hello. hello. i'm 60 and the house i'm living in now, i - the house i'm living in now, i bought probably nearly 20 years ago, the house i'm living in now, i bought probably nearly 20 years ago, so i'm coming to the end of my so i'm coming to the end of my term... �* . ., i'm coming to the end of my so i'm coming to the end of my term... �* ., so i'm coming to the end of my term... �* ... ., ., so i'm coming to the end of my term... �* ., ., , term... i'm coming to the end of my time, term... i'm coming to the end of my time. ive — term... i'm coming to the end of my time. i've just _ term... i'm coming to the end of my term... i'm coming to the end of my time, term... i'm coming to the end of my time. ive — term... i'm coming to the end of my time. i've just _ term... i'm coming to the end of my time, i've just looked _ term... i'm coming to the end of my time, i've just looked at _ term... i'm coming to the end of my time, i've just looked at the - term... i'm coming to the end of my time, i've just looked at the clock. i time, i've just looked _ term... i'm coming to the end of my time, i've just looked at _ term... i'm coming to the end of my time, i've just looked at the - term... i'm coming to the end of my time, i've just looked at the clock. i time, i've just looked at the clock. my time, i've just looked at the clock. my fault completely. what would be time, i've just looked at the clock. my time, i've just looked at the clock. my fault completely. what would be your one question, if you're any your one question, if you're any

room by minister about this, what room by minister about this, what would you say?— room by minister about this, what teem b —¥ ngmb ministerabout |' $ teem b —% would you say? there should be... there should _ would you say? there should be... there should _ would you say? there should be... there should not _ would you say? there should be... there should not be _ would you say? there should be... would you say? there should be... there should not _ would you say? there should be... there should not be _ would you say? there should be... there should not be an _ would you say? there should be... there should not be an age - would you say? there should be... i there should not be an age problem. i'm not allowed to extend my term there should not be an _ would you say? there should be... there should not be an age - would you say? there should be... i there should not be an age problem. i'm not allowed to extend my term because of my age and i feel the because of my age and i feel the stress test by 20 p. fish stress test by 20 to pick up because of my age and i feel the stress test by 20 p. an important oint that stress test by 20 p. an important point that we _ stress test by 20 p. an important point that we will _ stress test by 20 p. an important point that we will have _ stress test by 20 p. an important point that we will have to - stress test by 20 p. an important point that we will have to pick - stress test by 20 p. an important point that we will have to pick up| point that we will have to pick up on another occasion. i lost the point that we will have to pick up on another occasion. i thank you clock therefore a second. thank you very much for watching and clock therefore a second. thank you very much for watching and contributing this morning, apologies contributing this morning, to mark. huge thanks to everybody very much for watching and contributing th thanks ing, very much for watching and contributing th thanks to , very much for watching and contributing th thanks to everybody else who listened, watched or to mark. huge thanks to everybody else who listened, watched contributed. see you tomorrow. live from london. this is bbc news. the nato summit is under way — with leaders divided on how to handle ukraine's bid tojoin the alliance. yes, to join the alliance. this summit got under way witi a yes, this summit got under way with a very positive start. sweden looks

set to join. in now,