back to you, tim, we are just coming back to you, tim, we are hearing there from the police that they will not be pursuing this further. does the bbc still have questions to ask? of course they do. this entire scandal from the very beginning has been marked by an absence of facts. we heard allegations reported by one of our most popular and successful newspapers about criticism for the sun for breaking that story, but it's from one side, which is person perfectly reasonable. but no dates have we heard the side from the presenter we now know to be huw edwards. it is very common for people with very high profiles to be targeted by people who might wish to extract some kind of return for any

connection we have with that person. whilst i'm making no allegations whatsoever against any of the individuals and this must be investigated with rigour and fairness, the absence of any criminal charges is very, very significant. so the bbc must investigate, and must investigate whether huw broke any of the editorial guidelines or any of the principles of the bbc�*s employment contracts under which he works. i hope the bbc will do that thoroughly and rigorously and i hope they will also do it quickly. what it does now begin to suggest that what we've got here is a much more nuanced situation that originally appeared to be this case what might others have done wrong in order trying to extract things for him? �* , ., order trying to extract things for him? �*, ., ., ., ., him? let's re'oin laura trant in the

newsroom. — the sun made a statement in the past hour. as the sun made a statement in the past hour. �* , ,, ., the sun made a statement in the past hour. �* ,,4~ ,, 4 the sun made a statement in the past hour. �* ,, 4 ,, hour. a spokesperson from the sun newsa er hour. a spokesperson from the sun newsnaper says _ hour. a spokesperson from the sun newspaper says the _ hour. a spokesperson from the sun newspaper says the sun _ hour. a spokesperson from the sun newspaper says the sun has - hour. a spokesperson from the sun newspaper says the sun has no - hour. a spokesperson from the sun i newspaper says the sun has no plans to publish any further allegations of huw edwards and will cooperate with the bbc investigation process. the sun also added from the outset, they have reported about two very concerned and frustrated parents who made a complaint to the bbc. we reported that the parents had already been to the police who said they couldn't help. it is now for they couldn't help. it is now for the bbc to properly investigate. that is what the sun newspaper has said in a statement. and that is what the sun newspaper has said in a statement.— said in a statement. and laura, 'ust thinkin: said in a statement. and laura, 'ust thinking about�* said in a statement. and laura, 'ust thinking about the i said in a statement. and laura, 'ust thinking about the staff i said in a statement. and laura, 'ust thinking about the staff here i said in a statement. and laura, just thinking about the staff here in the l thinking about the staff here in the bbc, obviously the last five days, this has been such a focus. every time you walked into your

broadcasting house, there were cameras outside —— new —— new broadcasting house. tim davie address some of the main concerns. yes, i have the e—mail right here. we heard from tim davie this evening. he said that he wanted to write to all staff in reference to what is taking place over the last five days, which is affecting staff, but also the families involved. it's been an incredibly difficult time. it's been shocking. he's referred to the statement from his huw edwards's wife vicki the -- vicki flind.

—— vicki flind. he said this will no doubt be a difficult time after i challenging few days. he says their immediate concern is their duty of care to all those involved. he refers to the metropolitan police and south wales police. it would be taking no further action and assessment what's going on. bearing in mind all of the evidence, they said there are no criminal offences. tim davie also said they were asked to pause in theirfact—finding investigations. that has now concluded. he has told staff this evening that's important the bbc continues. ., ., evening that's important the bbc continues. . ., ., ~ evening that's important the bbc continues. . . ., ~ , continues. laura, thank you very much.

continues. laura, thank you very much- liz _ continues. laura, thank you very much. liz howell— continues. laura, thank you very much. liz howell is _ continues. laura, thank you very much. liz howell is a _ continues. laura, thank you very much. liz howell is a managing. much. liz howell is a managing editor formerly much. liz howell is a managing editorformerly at sky much. liz howell is a managing editor formerly at sky news and director broadcasting at hidey university london. she gave me her reaction to the day's developments. for the laws, it would have been difficult for anyone to name the presenter. have to come either from the presenter or someone who represented him. it's been unbelievably brave. it must be incredibly difficult for her. i'm sure that the best thing that this is now common and there will be an enormous amount of concern for huw. there's so many big events. but i think a lot of love and support will be with him right now. just because is not legal doesn't mean it's all fine and dandy. other people

involved feel they've been wrong. as the bbc most people feel the processes were there, but perhaps not as soon as they were that i love it... it has got everything to a head and no more on this accusation, and people can move on and perhaps make some good out of this. so the speculation — make some good out of this. so the speculation can _ make some good out of this. so the speculation can go _ make some good out of this. so the speculation can go away _ make some good out of this. so the speculation can go away now, - make some good out of this. so the speculation can go away now, but i speculation can go away now, but there are still questions about why there are still questions about why the story was published with these details being left out. we the story was published with these details being left out.— the story was published with these details being left out. we know why details being left out. we know why details were — details being left out. we know why details were left _ details being left out. we know why details were left out. _ details being left out. we know why details were left out. that's - details were left out. that's because of the privacy laws in this country. they're very complex and probably still developing and would prevent both the bbc and the sun newspaper identifying the person. that made it worse in a way because it racked up allegations and people

went wild on social media. the people who used social media have a lot to answer for. but for the time being, i think things can move on and we can take a deep breath. it's good that the metropolitan police have said there's no criminality involved, butjust because there's no criminality, doesn't mean the right things were done all the time. we'll see how it goes from here, but i think the main thing people want to say tonight is to his wife, you've done a wonderful thing and you're incredibly brave and so many people will be praying and thinking about you tonight. just people will be praying and thinking about you tonight.— about you tonight. just reflecting on the past _ about you tonight. just reflecting on the past few _ about you tonight. just reflecting on the past few days, _ about you tonight. just reflecting on the past few days, of - about you tonight. just reflecting on the past few days, of course l about you tonight. just reflecting i on the past few days, of course the amount of speculation. the lengths some other presenter is about to go through to say that it wasn't them. have we learned anything from the way that social media and of the media engages with issues of privacy and defamation? i media engages with issues of privacy and defamation?— and defamation? i think we have, i think we're — and defamation? i think we have, i think we're at _ and defamation? i think we have, i think we're at a _ and defamation? i think we have, i think we're at a crisis _ and defamation? i think we have, i think we're at a crisis point. - think we're at a crisis point.

social media isn't a publisher. it thinks of itself as the telephone company. you can say whatever you like on the telephone, they are just the facilitator, the technical facilitator. but it's not like that with social media. people are using it to spread deep unpleasantness about many cases. it's a bit like the poison letters of the past going mad times i the poison letters of the past going mad timesi million. if there's mad times i million. if there's a question whether it should be cast as a publisher. it's getting easier because of cyber security and investigations. the problem is what do you do when you find defamation... the genie is out of the bottle with social media and this has to be dealt with. i’m the bottle with social media and this has to be dealt with. i'm 'ust lookin: at this has to be dealt with. i'm 'ust iooioing at a fi this has to be dealt with. i'm 'ust looking at a tweet i this has to be dealt with. i'm 'ust looking at a tweet from i this has to be dealt with. i'm 'ust looking at a tweet from jon h this has to be dealt with. i'm justl looking at a tweet from jon sopel, who was talking about this being an

awful and shocking episode, but perhaps a complicated private life that doesn't feel very private now. that's quite a difficult thing, being a very public persona trying to have a private life. the problem is broadcast _ to have a private life. the problem is broadcast journalism _ to have a private life. the problem is broadcast journalism means - to have a private life. the problem| is broadcast journalism means that is broadcastjournalism means that the presenter is integral to the story, and you will know that yourself. your tone of voice, the way you look — all of that is start of the —— part of the story you're communicating. if there's a distraction like a private life. that means it's going to affect the way people listen to you. it's a very complicated thing. of course presenters are entitled to a private life as long as it stays private. the cat is out of the bad, and i'm afraid it's the will —— it affects the way we look at the presenter.

one question we will be looking at, but without regard, knowing a little bit more than we did five days ago, what are your reflections on how this has been handled by the bbc? i think on the whole, it's not too bad. tim davie has been given a very long interview. this is not a gruesome cover—up going on for years. this is not somebody who's done something evil to lots and lots of people. i think by and large, it's been quiet when you can go over the process and see how they're dealt with. maybe people take a better call and somebody like the family of this comes along. you can make that perhaps a tighter process in a better process. but what happened last thursday onwards i think the bbc handled well. they've

got the right outcome in the end. looking here at a piece from the bbc�*s culture editor casey radical —— katie razzle, who said the name huge was a huge shop for bbc news. this is a man who has it valued bbc values. huw edwards is a such a luminary figure.— values. huw edwards is a such a luminary figure. he's the face of the bbc. absolutely. _ luminary figure. he's the face of the sac. absolutely. |_ luminary figure. he's the face of the bbc. absolutely. i don't- luminary figure. he's the face of. the bbc. absolutely. i don't think it's quite such a shock. i think the speculation has been so rampant. it's a shock that huw edwards is in this position, but the actual name is not a shock. i was a most of the people i've spoken to have had an educated guess in huw edwards for the past few days, so that's one we're looking at. it's shocking, but not... but he's very much loved. i

think that's one of the things that perhaps his family can take away tonight, that whatever he's done, he is very much loved and there will be a way through this for him. speaking thereto these _ a way through this for him. speaking thereto these howell, _ a way through this for him. speaking thereto these howell, former - thereto these howell, former managing editor at �*s sky news here's katie raddatz. the managing editor at 's sky news here's katie raddatz. the police decided there _ here's katie raddatz. the police decided there was _ here's katie raddatz. the police decided there was no _ here's katie raddatz. the police. decided there was no information here's katie raddatz. the police - decided there was no information to suggest criminality. the bbc responded saying they would continue their investigation. minutes after that, vickie flind named him as the bbc presenter at the centre of this story. it is worth thinking about the significance of this, pausing and thinking about that, because the news of this official knowing the name is very recent and will come as a shock to some people, even though there's been all sorts of media speculation and online mainly. huw

edwards is such a significant person notjust edwards is such a significant person not just for this edwards is such a significant person notjust for this programme, but for not just for this programme, but for viewers notjust for this programme, but for viewers watching at home. he has been the embodiment of bbc values, he is somebody who has held our hand through some of the most important moments in the nation's history. he was there to cover general elections, very important role royal moments, including announcing the queen �*s death. his reputation has been tarnished through this time, even though people didn't necessarily know who he was. there is so much speculation. now we have this very sad news from these wife that he is suffering from serious mental health issues. we've known before and have been in the public that he had suffered severe depression, but she in the past... she references that and says the events of the last few days have worsened matters. he suffered another serious episode and is now receiving inpatient hospital care, where she said he will stay for the

foreseeable future. there's a lot to take in for people, even though we in the bbc have known this for a bit. other viewers may have known it, but it will still be a profound shock. �* �* �* , ., it, but it will still be a profound shock. �* �* �* , 4 4 4 shock. the bbc's media editor katie razzall getting _ shock. the bbc's media editor katie razzall getting her _ shock. the bbc's media editor katie razzall getting her reaction. - shock. the bbc's media editor katie razzall getting her reaction. rogerl razzall getting her reaction. roger bolton is a former bbc executive and independent producer, and he gave me his reaction to the news that came out in the past few hours. i think it was foreseeable, a lot of this. the originalfamily i think it was foreseeable, a lot of this. the original family involved and the position of huw edwards and his family. i want to say i think we need to stop speculating. i think it's admirable the bbc has been reporting openly the news in this way, but now there's a danger of being obsessive about it. there are other major events happening in the world of much greater importance. which and i'll let the bbc investigation go ahead. —— we should

now let. anyone with any evidence should give it to the bbc and then the bbc should report openly to everyone about the situation. but there's far too much speculation. what there isn't is a proper investigation of the original journalism of the sun newspaper, the editor of whom has not giving any interviews. they have produced no evidence. always in these situations, you will see photographs, blurt out, bank accounts with money burned out. they produce none of this at all. their big questions to the sun going to answered. there are people like priti patel, nadine dorries, lee anderson who said publish the name. i hope a lot of them will... even in

opposition, the bbc should put its house in order. i think they need to reflect very much, as we journalists do, on the way we handle this and what we should stop doing is speculating. what we should stop doing is speculating-— what we should stop doing is s-ieculatin. 4 , ,4 4 4 speculating. earlier, i spoke to alastair campbell _ speculating. earlier, i spoke to alastair campbell about - speculating. earlier, i spoke to alastair campbell about this, l speculating. earlier, i spoke to i alastair campbell about this, and his opinion was that the media lost perspective on this. but obviously, there's a difference between what's in the public interest and what interests the public. how do you feel that tension has been managed so far when it comes to this story? it's very difficult, isn't it, because if there was a suggestion of a real culprit behind bbc, at the proper thing that should be investigated. but i don't think there ever was, to be honest. i think i've been highly critical of the bbc. it was clear from the beginning this was not the case

here. it was clear the only thing the bbc was guilty of if anything was a relatively slow response to the initial complaint. mind you, we had 250 other complaints going on at the same time. but i think there was a concerted attack by people who hate the bbc to inflate the story. i think what social media takes over and once the bandwagon takes over, it runs off the rails. bbc news very properly and very well and honestly reported... i think you've done too much coverage. ukraine, the hottest day of the world has seen, to what's happening in health and so on to a whole... there are whole raft of things. i think we should all learn is don't speculate. don't speculate, give people time to investigate, and then hold them to account. but be

very careful here because there are real families involved. very careful here because there are realfamilies involved. there are realfamilies involved. there are real potential tragedies there, and if we get too self—obsessed in this, we will be responsible. and if we get too self-obsessed in this, we will be responsible.— if we get too self-obsessed in this, we will be responsible. and how much do ou we will be responsible. and how much do you think — we will be responsible. and how much do you think is — we will be responsible. and how much do you think is complicated _ we will be responsible. and how much do you think is complicated by - do you think is complicated by social media? because as you say, even in the absence of perhaps established publishers talking about this, the conversation would continue on social media. it well, and i think— continue on social media. it well, and i think people _ continue on social media. it well, and i think people don't - continue on social media. it well, and i think people don't realise i and i think people don't realise that when they publish, when they go on social media, they are publishing. there is a risk of defamation. why i think we should draw attention to is this situation because my going to get worse. we're now moving to the area of deep fake videos. —— a situation is going to. we therefore have got to make even more rigorous attempts to check allegations before he broadcast them. we've got ai coming along. i

think all of us need to be very aware of this and make sure that we tested the evidence before we go public. as well as understanding that personal consequences for the people involved in this. of course we have to hold people to account, and of course you in bbc news must be scrupulous in the way you report. i think you have been. let's make sure we're notjust airing allegations that nobody checked on. in the previous segment, you were talking about these allegations of inappropriate comments made by allegedly huw edwards. in the way which an older person talks to a younger person, there's a massive element of a confusing. i as an older person frankly i'm not sure often what words to use and what is appropriate. we're negotiating difficult territory here. it's clear

when people say really inappropriate things, but there's a contested area. we must be very careful because somebody�*s offended, it means there's been an offence. there might not have been. let's just dial it down. might not have been. let's 'ust dial it down. 4 v 4 , might not have been. let's 'ust dial it down. 4 �*, 4 , it down. that's an interesting point ou it down. that's an interesting point you make. — it down. that's an interesting point you make. and _ it down. that's an interesting point you make, and as— it down. that's an interesting point you make, and as you _ it down. that's an interesting point you make, and as you say, - it down. that's an interesting point you make, and as you say, one - it down. that's an interesting point you make, and as you say, one of. you make, and as you say, one of the difficulties here has been that there's been no access to any real facts. there has been a lot of speculation in that vacuum. ida. speculation in that vacuum. no, don't speculate. _ speculation in that vacuum. no, don't speculate. go _ speculation in that vacuum. iirr, don't speculate. go after the sun. stop speculating and on your own programme, there are plenty of stories that should be picked up, important stories in this country. do that. report thoroughly but stop speculating. do that. report thoroughly but stop s-ieculatin. ,,, ., 4 do that. report thoroughly but stop s-ieculatin. ,,, 4 4 4 speculating. speaking their former bbc executive _ speculating. speaking their former bbc executive roger _ speculating. speaking their former bbc executive roger bolton. - speculating. speaking their former bbc executive roger bolton. and i bbc executive roger bolton. and there is more reaction on our live page on the bbc website. reaction here from a former editor for the

the sun newspaper. he edited the paper from 1998—2003 and he says that the sun inflicted terror on huw despite no evidence of offence. this is no longer a bbc crisis, it's a crisis for the paper. huw�*s privacy must now be respected. social media also needs a speedy reform. you'll remember that the sun said it has no plans to publish further allegations. earlier, ialso plans to publish further allegations. earlier, i also spoke to former times editor david edelstein, and he feels the bbc did not do enough to make sure that the story does not get blown out of proportion. story does not get blown out of proportion-— story does not get blown out of n-roortion. ~ ., �* �* proportion. well, i think the bbc has been at _ proportion. well, i think the bbc has been at fault, _ proportion. well, i think the bbc has been at fault, but _ proportion. well, i think the bbc has been at fault, but not - proportion. well, i think the bbc has been at fault, but not for - proportion. well, i think the bbc| has been at fault, but not for the reasons that have been advanced by other commentators. i think the bbc have allowed this to become a bbc story when it isn't a bbc story. tv

presenter does x or y or z, unwise, foolish or inappropriate, it's a story about the presenter. the bbc, by announcing it during an investigation and by revealing, which astonished me, that it had an internal investigation to use it, turned it into a story about the bbc. 4 turned it into a story about the sac. 4 ,_ turned it into a story about the sac. 4 4 ,, bbc. some would say that the sun turned it into _ bbc. some would say that the sun turned it into a _ bbc. some would say that the sun turned it into a story _ bbc. some would say that the sun turned it into a story about - bbc. some would say that the sun turned it into a story about the - turned it into a story about the bbc. , , , turned it into a story about the sac. , , , ,, ~ bbc. oh, yes, but the sun, like a lot of bbc— bbc. oh, yes, but the sun, like a lot of bbc bashing _ bbc. oh, yes, but the sun, like a lot of bbc bashing newspaper, i bbc. oh, yes, but the sun, like a| lot of bbc bashing newspaper, will they say it's a bbc scandal, not a tv scandal. you can probably resist that. unfortunately, the bbc walked straight into the elephant trap. i still don't understand what this investigation unit is therefore. is it prying into the private lives of its 22,000 employees? if you have an

hr issue, if huw edwards was harassing junior staff, that's for the hr department. if you have someone who's fiddling their expenses, that will be a finance department issue. but what is the investigation? the department issue. but what is the investigation?— department issue. but what is the investigation? the issue here, not the fact that _ investigation? the issue here, not the fact that the _ investigation? the issue here, not the fact that the parents _ investigation? the issue here, not the fact that the parents of - investigation? the issue here, not the fact that the parents of this i the fact that the parents of this young person approached the bbc and asked them to specifically look into this matter. but asked them to specifically look into this matter. �* 4 asked them to specifically look into this matter-— this matter. but what did they ex-ect this matter. but what did they exuect the _ this matter. but what did they expect the bbc _ this matter. but what did they expect the bbc to _ this matter. but what did they expect the bbc to do? - this matter. but what did they expect the bbc to do? the - this matter. but what did theyl expect the bbc to do? the bbc this matter. but what did they - expect the bbc to do? the bbc has got —— is not a police force. it doesn't have investigative powers. i cannot compel people to give evidence, i cannot arrest anyone. —— it cannot. all you can say is these people have phoned up, what can you say? that's not what i'd call it investigation and i think it's absurd to expect anyone outside the bbc to expect the bbc to become some

kind of fbi. that's not the bbc's job, nor is it a national health service, as somebody was saying earlier tonight that the bbc should be helping this young person who is alleged to be a cocaine addict to wean himself off cocaine. the bbc was able to _ wean himself off cocaine. the bbc was able to pass _ wean himself off cocaine. the bbc was able to pass on _ wean himself off cocaine. the bbc was able to pass on this _ wean himself off cocaine. the bbc i was able to pass on this information to the police, and now we have the results of that inquiry.— results of that inquiry. look, either as _ results of that inquiry. look, either as a — results of that inquiry. look, either as a criminal - results of that inquiry. look, either as a criminal offence i results of that inquiry. look, i either as a criminal offence and results of that inquiry. look, - either as a criminal offence and for the police to investigate, or it's not a criminal event �*s, and it's a personal issue. unless the person involved is going to say to his line manager, "i've got a lot of problems, i need six months off to deal with my recurring issues of mental health, and by the way i might be doing some unwise things with i7—year—olds," that's up to

him. but the bbc can't... what are they going to do? put spies outside his house to see what he's doing? the guardian media editor asked tim davie the other day whether the bbc had been inspected huw edwards's phone. seriously! the bbc should not be in that business. i've worked in lots of broadcasters, i've never come across such a thing. i'm sorry, it's really repellent.— it's really repellent. well, one of my previous _ it's really repellent. well, one of my previous guests _ it's really repellent. well, one of my previous guests was - it's really repellent. well, one of my previous guests was pointing | it's really repellent. well, one of. my previous guests was pointing out the fact that this has been a big story because it is such a big presenter who has such a big profile. huw edwards is seen as the face of bbc news and that's why there's been this level of attention.— there's been this level of attention. ., , , there's been this level of attention. ., , attention. look, huw edwards is a story whether _ attention. look, huw edwards is a story whether he's _ attention. look, huw edwards is a story whether he's working - attention. look, huw edwards is a story whether he's working for - attention. look, huw edwards is a | story whether he's working for itv, bbc or dd news. he's a big name with

the largest salary in the bbc's division. of course it would be news as soon as it broke. the only thing thatis as soon as it broke. the only thing that is surprising is that it's taken so many days for his name to become public. clearly, lots of people inside the bbc knew who he was. clearly, he must have been agonising with his wife, as we now realise, as with what to do, and she has taken the initiative in making sure he gets hospital treatment and puts out a statement. but the notion that somehow the bbc as an organisation should have been cajoling huw edwards into making a public statement or naming him as the perpetrator, it is not acceptable. that's not thejob the perpetrator, it is not acceptable. that's not the job of any employer, least of all one which is trying to enjoy a level of public

trust. is trying to en'oy a level of public trust. �* , , , 4 is trying to en'oy a level of public trust. �*, , , 4 , 4 is trying to en'oy a level of public trust. �*, , , .,~ trust. let's bring you some breaking news now. this _ trust. let's bring you some breaking news now. this from _ trust. let's bring you some breaking news now. this from her _ trust. let's bring you some breaking news now. this from her special - news now. this from her special correspondent losey manning. they receive suggestive messages from huw edwards —— lucy manning. describing a power dynamic with made the messages inappropriate, the employee called on bbc managers to look into the relationship dynamics between presenters and juniors. —— junior staff. they have huge salaries and great difference is shown to presenters. that's what the employees said. they were nevertheless proud to work for the bbc. the bbc said, "we always treat the concerns of staff with care and would urge anyone to speak to us if they have any concerns." "we have

clear processes from making complaints." in an e—mail to staff, director general tim davie said the bbc's fact—finding investigation would now continue. he also said that the aim must be to a navigate through this with care and consideration in line with the bbc values. the director general also urge anyone with concerns or information to come forward. so, thatis information to come forward. so, that is the latest line that we're hearing reported by lucy manning, bbc news special correspondent, saying even now as the bbc resumes i think the speculation has been so rampant for the bbc few days, its investigation into the huw i think the speculation has been so rampant for the bbc resumes, saying even now as the bbc resumes its investigation into the huw edwards row, it's facing fresh edwards row, it's facing fresh allegations of tonight of allegations of tonight of inappropriate behaviour by the inappropriate behaviour by the presenter. as was mentioned, this presenter. as was mentioned, this was because of an employee has told was told bbc news that they receive was because of an employee has told bbc news that they receive suggestive messages from huw edwards suggestive messages from huw edwards

and those messages it made them feel and those messages it made them feel uncomfortable. of course, we'll uncomfortable. of course, we'll bring you all the latest on this and bring you all the and bring you all the latest on this and you can find everything that we you can find everything that we reported so far on our website. reported so far on our website. there is a life page for the story there is a life page for the story where you can find every detail as where you can find every detail as it happens. just a search bbc news it happens. just a for and we'll have all the latest for so rampant for the last few days, you there. do stay with us here on and we'll have all the latest for you there. do stay with us here bbc news. i'm nancy kacungira. we've and we'll have all the latest for you there. i'm tay with us here and we'll have all the latest for you there. i'm nancy h us here and we'll have all the latest for got the ten o'clock news coming up. you there. i'm nancy kacungira. we've bbc news. i'm nancy kacungira. we've got the ten o'clock news coming up. don't go away. this is bbc news. don't go away. the news presenter huw edwards has been identified as the man at the centre of allegations over payments for sexually explicit images. a trusted face for millions, he is now in hospital receiving treatment for mental health issues. he's the face of the bbc in many ways — particularly in terms of news, absolutely. i don't think it's quite such a shock.

i think the speculation has been