well, i think in education, where we've seen a 6.5%| pay award, a properly funded pay. award, certainly our teaching unions will be recommending to their members that they accept the government's proposals. and if that is the case, then i think that we . will see the end of- the strikes in education. welcome back. a pay rise here in the uk for more than a million public sector workers. but the government says that extra money will be funded through existing departmental budgets. is the prime minister robbing peter to pay paul. we will discuss that tonight, with our panel lord peter ricketts, former chair of the joint intelligence committee, and the republican strategist, doug heye. i am sure both will have a view on a report today from an intelligence committee here in the uk, that concluded china's spies

have now infiltrated every sector of british society. and lights, camera, picket line. the actors join the writers at the barricades, after negotiations with the studios collapse. but first, to the pay award. over a million public sector workers, including teachers and doctors, will get a rise in this financial year of up to 7%. rishi sunak has agreed to honour the recommendations of the independent, pay review bodies. the deal covers 45% of the public sector. and on top of that pay award, the government has committed additional funding for schools above what was proposed in march and in addition to the £2 billion already given to schools in the autumn statement. the four teaching unions said that was a basis to call off strike action. which will be welcomed by parents up and down the land. however the junior doctors, who went on strike today, say it is not enough. their continued absence will make

it almost impossible for the pm to meet his promise of cutting waiting lists. the other concern is where this money comes from, the prime minister has already told us it will not be funded through borrowing. this will you acknowledge specifically that a consequence of your decision will be cuts in magic to some key public services? your decision will be cuts in budgets to some key public services? this is a significant pay award, one of the most significant we have had in decades, and it is costing billions of pounds more than the government had budgeted for. and that has consequences. if we are going to prioritise paying public sector workers, then that money has to come from somewhere else. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. lord peter workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. lord peter ricketts, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. lord peter ricketts, some workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. lord peter ricketts, some positivity workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. lord peter ricketts, some positivity today. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. lord peter ricketts, some positivity today. teachers workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. lord peter ricketts, some positivity toda. , workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. lord peter ricketts, some positivity toda. , today. teachers calling off their strike, children _ workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. today. .. , .. ., ' strike, children havin: their strike, children having their education and workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. strike, children having their education and interrupted by covid and workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. education and interrupted by covid and then workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. education and interrupted by covid and then strikes last workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. education and interrupted by covid and then strikes last year. the

doctor workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. and then strikes last year. the doctor started workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. and then strikes last year. the doctor started off by workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. and then strikes last year. the doctor started off by askin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. and then strikes last year. the doctor started off by askin- for doctor started off by asking for 35%, which workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. doctor started off by asking for 35%, which is of workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. doctor started off by asking for 35%, which is of course workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. doctor started off by asking for 35%, which is of course not workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. doctor started off by asking for 35%, which is of course not at all reasonable, but workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 35%, which is of course not at all reasonable, but is workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 35%, which is of course not at all reasonable, but is tryin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 35%, which is of course not at all reasonable, but is tryin- to make workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 35%, which is of course not at all reasonable, but is tryin- to make up reasonable, but is trying to make up for workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. reasonable, but is trying to make up for years workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. reasonable, but is trying to make up for years of salary workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. reasonable, but is trying to make up for years of salary erosion amon- for years of salary erosion among younger workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. for years of salary erosion among youn-er doctors. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. for years of salary erosion among youn-er doctors. and, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. for years of salary erosion among youn-er doctors. and, the younger doctors. and, the prime minister workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. younger doctors. and, the prime minister is between workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. younger doctors. and, the prime minister is between a workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. younger doctors. and, the prime minister is between a rock workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. younger doctors. and, the prime minister is between a rock and hard place. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. minister is between a rock and hard place. he honestly workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. minister is between a rock and hard place. he honestly wants workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. minister is between a rock and hard place. he honestly wants to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. minister is between a rock and hard place. he honestly wants to head off another workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. place. he honestly wants to head off another dama--in year workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. place. he honestly wants to head off another dama--in year of strikes, another damaging year of strikes, equally, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. another damaging year of strikes, equally, we now workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. another damaging year of strikes, equally, we now have an workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. another damaging year of strikes, equally, we now have an inflation figure workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. equally, we now have an inflation fi-ure of 8.7%. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. equally, we now have an inflation fi-ure of 8.7%. i see workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. equally, we now have an inflation fi-ure of 8.7%. i see it has figure of 8.7%. i see it has gone down workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. figure of 8.7%. i see it has gone down to 3% workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. figure of 8.7%. i see it has gone down to 3% in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. figure of 8.7%. i see it has gone down to 3% in the us, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. figure of 8.7%. i see it has gone down to 3% in the us, and therefore, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. down to 3% in the us, and therefore, any more workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. down to 3% in the us, and therefore, any more borrowin- risks workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. down to 3% in the us, and therefore, any more borrowin- risks puttin- any more borrowing risks putting more workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. any more borrowing risks putting more upward workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. any more borrowing risks putting more upward pressure on workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. any more borrowing risks putting more upward pressure on inflation. he workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. more upward pressure on inflation. he is workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. more upward pressure on inflation. he is desperate to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. more upward pressure on inflation. he is desperate to -et workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. more upward pressure on inflation. he is desperate to -et inflation he is desperate to get inflation down as workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. he is desperate to get inflation down as well. reconcilin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. he is desperate to get inflation down as well. reconcilin- all of down as well. reconciling all of thatis workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. down as well. reconciling all of that is --oin to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. down as well. reconciling all of that is --oin to be very workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. down as well. reconciling all of that is --oin to be very difficult, that is going to be very difficult, as your workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. that is going to be very difficult, as your clip workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. that is going to be very difficult, as your clip said, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. that is going to be very difficult, as your clip said, it is workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. that is going to be very difficult, as your clip said, it is bound to mean cuts workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. as your clip said, it is bound to mean cuts in some workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. as your clip said, it is bound to mean cuts in some public services workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. as your clip said, it is bound to mean cuts in some public services to fun workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. mean cuts in some public services to fun these pay workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. mean cuts in some public services to fun these pay settlements. time workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. mean cuts in some public services to fun these pay settlements. time is not workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. fun these pay settlements. time is not on workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. fun these pay settlements. time is not on his workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. fun these pay settlements. time is not on his side, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. fun these pay settlements. time is not on his side, one of workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. fun these pay settlements. time is not on his side, one of his workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. fun these pay settlements. time is not on his side, one of his pa-es not on his side, one of his pages is to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. not on his side, one of his pages is to brin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. not on his side, one of his pages is to brin- down workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. not on his side, one of his pages is to brin- down the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. not on his side, one of his pages is to brin- down the waitin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. not on his side, one of his pages is to brin- down the waitin- lists workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. not on his side, one of his pages is to brin- down the waitin- lists at to bring down the waiting lists at nhs hospitals. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to bring down the waiting lists at nhs hospitals. today, a report without workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. nhs hospitals. today, a report workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. nhs hospitals. today, a report without sayin- waitin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. nhs hospitals. today, a report without sayin- waitin- lists, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. nhs hospitals. today, a report without sayin- waitin- lists, the without saying waiting lists, the number workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. without saying waiting lists, the number of workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. without saying waiting lists, the number of people workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. without saying waiting lists, the number of people on workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. without saying waiting lists, the number of people on those, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. without saying waiting lists, the number of people on those, has gone from workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. number of people on those, has gone from 7.2 workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. number of people on those, has gone from 7.2 alien to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. number of people on those, has gone from 7.2 alien to 7.47 in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. number of people on those, has gone from 7.2 alien to 7.47 in may.

workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. number of people on those, has gone from 7.2 alien to 7.47 in may. it has got workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. from 7.2 alien to 7.47 in may. it has -ot worse and workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. from 7.2 alien to 7.47 in may. it has -ot worse and will -et workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. from 7.2 alien to 7.47 in may. it has -ot worse and will -et worse if has got worse and will get worse if thejunior workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. has -ot worse and will -et worse if workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. has got worse and will get worse if the 'unior doctors do workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. has got worse and will get worse if the 'unior doctors do not -o workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. has got worse and will get worse if the 'unior doctors do not -o back workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. has got worse and will get worse if the 'unior doctors do not -o back to the junior doctors do not go back to work full workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the junior doctors do not go back to work full stop workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the junior doctors do not go back to work full stop it workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the junior doctors do not go back to work full stop it will et workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the junior doctors do not go back to work full sto_ ., , ~ , work full stop it will get worse. as other public _ workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. work full sto ., , ~ , other ublic sector workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. work full sto ., , ~ , other ublic sector is settled, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. work full sto ., , ~ , other ublic sector is settled, i other public sector is settled, i wonder workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. other public sector is settled, i wonder how lon- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. other public sector is settled, i wonder how lon- the 'unior wonder how long the junior doctors will workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. wonder how long the junior doctors will feel they workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. wonder how long the junior doctors will feel they can workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. wonder how long the junior doctors will feel they can keep this workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. wonder how long the junior doctors will feel they can keep this up. the premise that workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. will feel they can keep this up. the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. will feel they can keep this up. the premise that is not workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. will feel they can keep this up. the premise that is not --oin to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. will feel they can keep this up. the premise that is not --oin to too premise that is not going to too well workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. premise that is not going to too well with his workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. premise that is not going to too well with his pled-es, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. premise that is not going to too well with his pled-es, another workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. premise that is not going to too well with his pled-es, another was well with his pledges, another was to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. well with his pledges, another was to have workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. well with his pledges, another was to have inflation, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. well with his pledges, another was to have inflation, another otherwise workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to have inflation, another otherwise to stop workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to have inflation, another otherwise to stop the small workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to have inflation, another otherwise to stop the small -oats or workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to have inflation, another otherwise to stop the small -oats or boats to stop the small goats or boats coming workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to stop the small goats or boats comin- across workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to stop the small goats or boats comin- across the channel. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to stop the small goats or boats comin- across the channel. these are coming across the channel. these are becoming workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. comin- across the channel. these are workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. coming across the channel. these are becomin- extremely difficult, becoming extremely difficult, the waiting workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. becoming extremely difficult, the waitin- list workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. becoming extremely difficult, the waitin- list perhaps the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. becoming extremely difficult, the waitin- list perhaps the most waiting list perhaps the most difficult of workers more, then that money has to come from 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that money has to come from somewhere else. collectors essence 11's spending. basin- public debt workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. collectors essence 11's spending. basin- public debt could soar basing public debt could soar over the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. basing public debt could soar over the lon- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. basing public debt could soar over the lon- term. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. basing public debt could soar over the lon- term. 2017 workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. basing public debt could soar over the lon- term. 2017 to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. basing public debt could soar over the lon- term. 2017 to the very the long term. 2017 to the very distant future. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the long term. 2017 to the very distant future. they workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the long term. 2017 to the very distant future. they fla- -ed workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the long term. 2017 to the very distant future. they fla- -ed this distant future. they flagged this decade workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. distant future. they flagged this decade as the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. distant future. they flagged this decade as the most precarious. they have workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. decade as the most precarious. they have determined workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. decade as the most precarious. they have determined the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. decade as the most precarious. they have determined the government's attempts workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. have determined the government's attempts to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. have determined the government's attempts to cut workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. have determined the government's attempts to cut debt workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. have determined the government's attempts to cut debt in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. have determined the government's attempts to cut debt in this decade are workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. attempts to cut debt in this decade are modest. but workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. attempts to cut debt in this decade are modest. but does that sound familiar? workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. are modest. but does that sound workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. are modest. but does that sound familiar? on your workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. are modest. but does that sound familiar? on your side? workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. are modest. but does that sound familiar? on your side? one of the most workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. familiar? on your side? one of the most amazin- thin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. familiar? on your side? one of the most amazin- thin- we often workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. familiar? on your side? one of the most amazin- thin- we often see in most amazing thing we often see in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. most amazing thing we often see in the united workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. most amazing thing we often see in the united states workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. most amazing thing we often see in the united states and workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. most amazing thing we often see in the united states and united workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else.

most amazing thing we often see in the united states and united kin-dom the united states and united kingdom to sit workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the united states and united kingdom to sit different countries workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the united states and united kingdom to sit different countries separated by workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to sit different countries separated by a common workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to sit different countries separated by a common lan--uae. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to sit different countries separated by a common lan--uae. when workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to sit different countries separated by a common lan--uae. when you workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to sit different countries separated by a common lan--uae. when you look by a common language. when you look at our— workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. by a common language. when you look at our politics, the similarities are workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. at our politics, the similarities are stark. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. at our politics, the similarities are stark. a bi- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. at our politics, the similarities are stark. a bi- part workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. at our politics, the similarities are stark. a bi- part of the are stark. a big part of the conversation workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. are stark. a big part of the conversation con-ress workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. are stark. a big part of the conversation con-ress is workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. are stark. a big part of the conversation con-ress is havin-, not conversation congress is having, not just a _ workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. conversation congress is having, not 'ust a day, i workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. conversation congress is having, not 'ust a day, i don't 'ust workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. conversation congress is having, not 'ust a day, i don't 'ust mean in just a day, i don'tjust mean in these general workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. just a day, i don'tjust mean in these -eneraltimes, i workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. just a day, i don'tjust mean in these -eneraltimes, i mean on workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. just a day, i don'tjust mean in these -eneraltimes, i mean on this these general times, i mean on this very workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere 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from somewhere else. at a time when, fortunately for the us, we are seein- inflation drop. us, we are seeing inflation drop. when _ workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. us, we are seeing inflation drop. when i had workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. us, we are seeing inflation drop. when i had these numbers, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. us, we are seeing inflation drop. when i had these numbers, my first workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. when i had these numbers, my first thou-ht was workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. when i had these numbers, my first thou-ht was on workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. when i had these numbers, my first thou-ht was on the prime workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. when i had these numbers, my first thou-ht was on the prime minister is thought was on the prime minister is solving _ workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. thought was on the prime minister is solvin- one workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. thought was on the prime minister is solvin- one problem workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. thought was on the prime minister is solvin- one problem that workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. thought was on the prime minister is solvin- one problem that potentially solving one problem that potentially may face _ workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. solving one problem that potentially may face another with workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. solving one problem that potentially may face another with increased inflation — workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. may face another with increased inflation. as lord workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. may face another with increased inflation. as lord ricketts says, he is workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. inflation. as lord ricketts says, he is exactly ri-ht workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. inflation. as lord ricketts says, he is exactly ri-ht here. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. inflation. as lord ricketts says, he is exactly ri-ht here. lo-ic workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. inflation. as lord ricketts says, he is exactly ri-ht here. lo-ic it is is exactly right here. logic it is exactly right. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. is exactly right here. logic it is exactly ri-ht. if you workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. is exactly right here. logic it is exactly ri-ht. if you look workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. is exactly right here. logic it is exactl riuht. ,. ., ., ~ 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figures, doug heye, uk economy has been flatlinin- all the way back to been flatlining all the way back to 2019. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. been flatlining all the way back to 2019. in fact, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. been flatlining all the way back to 2019. in fact, numbers workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. been flatlining all the way back to 2019. in fact, numbers from workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. been flatlining all the way back to 2019. in fact, numbers from today show workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 2019. in fact, numbers from today show in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 2019. in fact, numbers from today show in may, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 2019. in fact, numbers from today show in may, it workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 2019. in fact, numbers from today show in may, it contracted. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 2019. in fact, numbers from today show in may, it contracted. at workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 2019. in fact, numbers from today show in may, it contracted. at least in the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. show in may, it contracted. at least in the united states workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. show in may, it contracted. at least in the united states you have some growth. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. in the united states you have some -rowth. we workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. in the united states you have some -rowth. we have workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. in the united states you have some urowth. ~ ., ., workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. in the united states you have some urowth. ~ ., ., ., ., growth. we have growth and our inflation workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. growth. ~ ., ., ., ., inflation has fallen. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. growth. ~ ., ., ., ., inflation has fallen. it is workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else.

growth. ~ ., ., ., ., inflation has fallen. it is at a rate — workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. inflation has fallen. it is at a rate which workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. inflation has fallen. it is at a rate which is almost reasonable. those _ workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rate which is almost reasonable. those prices are workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rate which is almost reasonable. those prices are not workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rate which is almost reasonable. those prices are not --oin workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rate which is almost reasonable. those prices are not --oin down, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rate which is almost reasonable. those prices are not --oin down, but those prices are not going down, but the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. those prices are not going down, but the increase is workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. those prices are not going down, but the increase is fallin-. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. those prices are not going down, but the increase is fallin-. this is the increase is falling. this is part— workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the increase is falling. this is part of the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the increase is falling. this is part of the difficulty workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the increase is falling. this is part of the difficulty that not just we workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. part of the difficulty that not just we face, but workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. part of the difficulty that not just we face, but the united kingdom faces— workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. we face, but the united kingdom faces as workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. we face, but the united kingdom faces as well, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. we face, but the united kingdom faces as well, with a more existential workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. faces as well, with a more existential problem, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. faces as well, with a more existential problem, a matter striking. having workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. existential problem, a matter strikin-. havin- beena workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. existential problem, a matter strikin-. havin- been a victim of striking. having been a victim of uk rail workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. striking. having been a victim of uk rail strikes, i workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. striking. having been a victim of uk rail strikes, i know the frustration that workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rail strikes, i know the frustration workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rail strikes, i know the frustration that people have workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rail strikes, i know the frustration that people have with workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rail strikes, i know the frustration that people have with them, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rail strikes, i know the frustration that people have with them, and workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. rail strikes, i know the frustration that people have with them, and that out of— workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. that people have with them, and that out of these --oin workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. that people have with them, and that out of these --oin into workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. that people have with them, and that out of these --oin into next workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. that people have with them, and that out of these --oin into next year out of these going into next year is something — workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. out of these going into next year is somethin- that workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. out of these going into next year is somethin- that obviously workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. out of these going into next year is somethin- that obviously the prime something that obviously the prime minister_ workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. something that obviously the prime minister wants workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. something that obviously the prime minister wants to deal workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. something that obviously the prime minister wants to deal with a-ain. minister wants to deal with again. we workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. minister wants to deal with again. we are workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. minister wants to deal with again. we are solvin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. minister wants to deal with again. we are solvin- potentially workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. minister wants to deal with again. we are solvin- potentially one we are solving potentially one problem, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. we are solving potentially one problem, but workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. we are solving potentially one problem, but there are other problems workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. problem, but there are other problems comin- down workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. problem, but there are other problems comin- down the road. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. problem, but there are other problems comin- down the road. for problems coming down the road. for the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. problems comin- down the road. for workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. problems coming down the road. for the opposition, if workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. problems coming down the road. for the opposition, if they were co—coming to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the opposition, if they were co—comin- to -overnments, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. the opposition, if they were co—comin- to -overnments, lord co—coming to governments, lord ricketts, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. co—coming to governments, lord ricketts, they workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. co—coming to governments, lord ricketts, they said workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. co—coming to governments, lord ricketts, they said they workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. co—coming to governments, lord ricketts, they said they wouldn't borrow workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. ricketts, they said they wouldn't workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. ricketts, they said they wouldn't borrow either. the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. ricketts, they said they wouldn't borrow either. the abi says workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. ricketts, they said they wouldn't borrow either. the abi says if we workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. borrow either. the abi says if we maintain the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. borrow either. the abi says if we maintain the standard of public services workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. maintain the standard of public services that workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. maintain the standard of public services that we workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. maintain the standard of public services that we have now workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. maintain the standard of public services that we have now into the future, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. services that we have now into the future, then workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. services that we have now into the future, then public workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. services that we have now into the future, then public debt workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. services that we have now into the future, then public debt will be 300% gdp workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. future, then public debt will be 300% gdp rather workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. future, then public debt will be 300% gdp rather than workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. future, then public debt will be 300% gdp rather than the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. future, then public debt will be 300% gdp rather than the 100% workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. future, then public debt will be 300% gdp rather than the 100% it is now. but, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 300% gdp rather than the 100% it is now. but, there workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 300% gdp rather than the 100% it is now. but, there is no workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 300% gdp rather than the 100% it is now. but, there is no one in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. 300% gdp rather than the 100% it is now. but, there is no one in this country workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. now. but, there is no one in this country who workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. now. but, there is no one in this country who wants a workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. now. but, there is no one in this country who wants a conversation about reducing workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. country who wants a conversation about reducin- services workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. country who wants a conversation about reducin- services at the about reducing services at the front

line. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. about reducing services at the front line. no, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. about reducing services at the front line. ., workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. about reducing services at the front line. ., ., workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. about reducing services at the front line. ., ., workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. about reducing services at the front line. ., ., ., ., ,., line. no, indeed, and we are also sufferin: workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. line. ., ., ., ., ,., sufferin: from workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. line. ., ., ., ., ,., sufferin: from decades of suffering from decades of underinvestment workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. suffering from decades of underinvestment in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. suffering from decades of underinvestment in our public infrastructure, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. underinvestment in our public infrastructure, so we workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. underinvestment in our public infrastructure, so we can workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. underinvestment in our public infrastructure, so we can see that workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. infrastructure, so we can see that in the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. infrastructure, so we can see that in the water workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. infrastructure, so we can see that in the water industry, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. infrastructure, so we can see that in the water industry, problems with sewage, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. in the water industry, problems with sewa-e, in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. in the water industry, problems with sewa-e, in all workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. in the water industry, problems with sewa-e, in all sorts workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. in the water industry, problems with sewa-e, in all sorts of workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. in the water industry, problems with sewa-e, in all sorts of different sewage, in all sorts of different areas, we workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. sewage, in all sorts of different areas, we need public workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. sewage, in all sorts of different areas, we need public investment. and workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. areas, we need public investment. and yet, the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. areas, we need public investment. and yet, the finances workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. areas, we need public investment. and yet, the finances are very tight. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. and yet, the finances are very workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. and yet, the finances are very ti-ht. at this workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. and yet, the finances are very ti-ht. at this point in tight. at this point in our electoral workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. tight. at this point in our electoral cycle, workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. tight. at this point in our electoral cycle, the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. tight. at this point in our electoral cycle, the opposition have no interest workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. electoral cycle, the opposition have no interest in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. electoral cycle, the opposition have no interest in settin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. electoral cycle, the opposition have no interest in settin- out their no interest in setting out their detailed workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. no interest in setting out their detailed economic plans, particularly not workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. detailed economic plans, particularly not how workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. detailed economic plans, particularly not how they are going to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. particularly not how they are going to raise the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. particularly not how they are going to raise the money workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. particularly not how they are going to raise the money to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. particularly not how they are going to raise the money to pay workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. particularly not how they are going to raise the money to pay for their extra workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to raise the money to pay for their extra spendin- workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to raise the money to pay for their extra spendin- pled-es. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to raise the money to pay for their extra spendin- pled-es. it workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. to raise the money to pay for their extra spendin- pled-es. it can extra spending pledges. it can only be workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. extra spending pledges. it can only be done throu-h workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. extra spending pledges. it can only be done throu-h tax if workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. extra spending pledges. it can only be done throu-h tax if it workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. extra spending pledges. it can only be done throu-h tax if it cannot be done through tax if it cannot be done workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. be done through tax if it cannot be done to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. be done through tax if it cannot be done to -rowth workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. be done through tax if it cannot be done to -rowth in workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. be done through tax if it cannot be done to -rowth in the economy, done to growth in the economy, but no workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. done to growth in the economy, but no one is workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. done to growth in the economy, but no one is --oin to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. done to growth in the economy, but no one is --oin to say this workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. done to growth in the economy, but no one is --oin to say this at this no one is going to say this at this point. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. no one is going to say this at this point. ok, we workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. no one is going to say this at this oint. ., workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. no one is going to say this at this oint. ., ., . point. ok, we will move on. we will talk workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. talk about the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. talk about the nato workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. talk about the nato summit this week. president workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. talk about the nato summit this week. president biden workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. talk about the nato summit this week. president biden in his five—day workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. week. president biden in his workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. week. president biden in his five—day visit to workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. week. president biden in his five—day visit to europe finished with a workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. five—day visit to europe finished with a short stop workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. five—day visit to europe finished with a short stop in helsinki workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. five—day visit to europe finished with a short stop in helsinki today meeting with workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. with a short stop in helsinki today meetin- with the nordic workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. with a short stop in helsinki today meetin- with the nordic leaders. in april finland became the 31st member of the workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. alliance, after decades of military non ali-nment. the finns share a border with russia that is 800 miles long. workers more, then that money has to come from somewhere else. were ukraine to join the alliance nato's border with russia would extend another 1,200 miles.

let's think about that expanding board and set it in a historical context. before the second world war, france built a vast and extensive fortifications along its border with germany, which became known. those who study that period will know it was not very effective. the german blitz went through luxembourg, belgium, into france, going around the line and rending the defences useless. our next guest anja manuel hinks nato is in danger of making a similar mistake. she is the executive director of the aspen security forum, a bipartisan foreign policy conference a bipartisan foreign policy conference. welcome to the programme. surely, we are much more mobile these days within nato than those static defences that were on the french line? ' :: :: , , ., ., defences that were on the french line? in , ., ., ., line? 100%. first of all, happy to be here line? 10096. first of all, happy to be here with _ line? 10096. first of all, happy to be here with you _ line? 10096. first of all, happy to

be here with you today. - line? 10096. first of all, happy to be here with you today. yes, - line? 10096. first of all, happy to be here with you today. yes, the | be here with you today. yes, the article published today is not about building static defences along made pass orders. what i was is, nato militaries, the us, uk, others, are really dependent on very exquisitely expensive platforms, aircraft carriers, fighterjets, precision carriers, fighter jets, precision missiles, carriers, fighterjets, precision missiles, long—range rocket launchers. and those similar to the french line in world war ii are very vulnerable to cheap inexpensive asymmetric threats. what you see in ukraine is that happening, the expensive munitions that the us have given ukrainians, russians have jammed gps almost all the way along the front, and so it is much harder to make those as precise and is targeted as they are to be. that is what i'm about with the new maginot

line. so what i'm about with the new maginot line, ., l, �* what i'm about with the new maginot line. ., �* , what i'm about with the new maginot line. . �* , ., line. so what you're saying is that no matter how _ line. so what you're saying is that no matter how much _ line. so what you're saying is that no matter how much we _ line. so what you're saying is that no matter how much we pack- line. so what you're saying is that no matter how much we pack and | line. so what you're saying is that - no matter how much we pack and ship ukraine, it is always going to meet acceptable to this cyber warfare? not just cyber acceptable to this cyber warfare? notjust cyber warfare, but it is natural that, notjust cyber warfare, but it is naturalthat, if notjust cyber warfare, but it is natural that, if you have an adversary, they are going to find the asymmetric holes in your defensive strategy. this was the germans going around the line by marching through luxembourg and belgium. and you see this, ec china and russia are really investing in anti—satellite capabilities, so imagine, the worst—case scenario, there was a war with china over taiwan. what might happen? us and nato communication satellites will be taken out, maybe even gps satellites. so, this is something thatis satellites. so, this is something that is a real worry, and that i know nato planners and american planners are working on but have not resolved yet. planners are working on but have not resolved yet-— planners are working on but have not resolved vet-— resolved yet. yeah. at the same time, resolved yet. yeah. at the same time. this _ resolved yet. yeah. at the same time, this has _ resolved yet. yeah. at the same time, this has been _ resolved yet. yeah. at the same time, this has been a _ resolved yet. yeah. at the same l time, this has been a conventional war. the russians have been bearing men, tanks, their entire arsenal weapons at ukraine, and still got

nowhere. is that perhaps in itself and the proof in the pudding, is what you're saying, that however conventional warfare is, you do not need to match it? conventionalwarfare is, you do not need to match it?— need to match it? what is amazing about this ukraine- _ need to match it? what is amazing about this ukraine- russia - need to match it? what is amazing about this ukraine- russia war - need to match it? what is amazing about this ukraine- russia war is i about this ukraine— russia war is that it about this ukraine— russia war is thatitis about this ukraine— russia war is that it is both a throwback to mid—20th—century trench warfare, and you know, the incredible courage of the ukrainians, people dying at much higher rates and they should, and also, very much a 21st—century war. one of the most amazing things i've heard from ukrainians on the front nine is at one of their most effective weapons is a toy drone, call the first person view drone. it is run by virtual reality goggles and it is meant to be a toy, but it is so fast that the russian radar cannot detect it. they better payload on the other one kilogram of explosives and they can take out anything on the russian side except anything on the russian side except a tank. so, it is both the throwback to warfare 80 years ago and also

something that looks more modern than anything we have ever seen. larger than anything we have ever seen. law three to ricketts, coming on this. i know you spend a lot of time speaking about nato. can you do without the heavy equipment, because, imagine a scenario, russia roll across ukraine's border, back in february, and there is nothing there to meet them, theyjust arrive in kyiv, you might have all of these technological equipments, but you still need the tanks and the troops and the missiles. i still need the tanks and the troops and the missiles.— and the missiles. i think that is a oint. and the missiles. i think that is a point- we _ and the missiles. i think that is a point. we have _ and the missiles. i think that is a point. we have to _ and the missiles. i think that is a point. we have to be _ and the missiles. i think that is a point. we have to be prepared i and the missiles. i think that is aj point. we have to be prepared to fight two different types of war, the sort of 1914 war, effectively, which is going on in ukraine at the moment, and also a potential high—tech war where the exquisite technologies of our militaries, for example, in the taiwan case, would become much more relevant. i think we should pause to say that western military equipment has performed extremely well on the battlefield in ukraine. if you think about the anti—tank missiles. the russian advance, the patriot missiles that

have been very effective in taking out russian missile attacks, i think the quality of western weapons has held up very well. nonetheless, the point is right. war is always an opportunity for innovation, trial and error, for developing new technologies at real speed, and this one has come up with some very surprising ones like cheap commercial drones, like the iranians drains that did so much damage in ukraine as well. and yes, we absolutely need to learn from that, but we shouldn't go away discouraged about the quality of western military kit, we just don't have enough of it, and we don't have enough of it, and we don't have enough of it cheap and cheerful, cheap and cheerful ways of attacking any ukraine war. i'd like another reason is doug heye the germans put us on the beach is because the cavalry and the war office... is there a danger we are talking about tanks and war office in a bannigan when we should be talking about some of the things anya set out? that

when we should be talking about some of the things anya set out?— of the things anya set out? that is one of the conversations _ of the things anya set out? that is one of the conversations being - of the things anya set out? that is| one of the conversations being had in washington right now. what are we going _ in washington right now. what are we going to _ in washington right now. what are we going to do. _ in washington right now. what are we going to do, and i mean nato and the united _ going to do, and i mean nato and the united states, moving forward? in congress _ united states, moving forward? in congress today, we are debating at the national house of representatives international defence organisations. basically, what _ defence organisations. basically, what we — defence organisations. basically, what we will spend in our defence. ukraine _ what we will spend in our defence. ukraine funding is a big part of that _ ukraine funding is a big part of that not — ukraine funding is a big part of that. notjust whether we ukraine funding is a big part of that. not just whether we will fund, which _ that. not just whether we will fund, which is _ that. not just whether we will fund, which is its — that. not just whether we will fund, which is its own existential discussion in congress sometimes, but also, _ discussion in congress sometimes, but also, what this funding go to weston— but also, what this funding go to weston wallaby sending to ukraine? there _ weston wallaby sending to ukraine? there are _ weston wallaby sending to ukraine? there are also questions moving forward — there are also questions moving forward to— there are also questions moving forward to some extent. can there are also questions moving forward to some extent. can you come back to that — forward to some extent. can you come back to that point _ forward to some extent. can you come back to that point i _ forward to some extent. can you come back to that point i mentioned - forward to some extent. can you come back to that point i mentioned at - back to that point i mentioned at the beginning? we have an extra 800 miles of finland, but angel extra 1200 miles of ukraine, i know nato has set out a new reform plan setting the territory into north, centre, and south, but is there a danger that without this technology, nato gets over stretched over a very

long border? i nato gets over stretched over a very long border?— long border? i would say there is a lot of discussion _ long border? i would say there is a lot of discussion about _ long border? i would say there is a lot of discussion about whether - long border? i would say there is a lot of discussion about whether or| lot of discussion about whether or not ukraine — lot of discussion about whether or not ukraine gets _ lot of discussion about whether or not ukraine gets into— lot of discussion about whether or not ukraine gets into nato- lot of discussion about whether or not ukraine gets into nato now. l not ukraine gets into nato now. especially — not ukraine gets into nato now. especially in _ not ukraine gets into nato now. especially in the _ not ukraine gets into nato now. especially in the us _ not ukraine gets into nato now. especially in the us press. - not ukraine gets into nato now. especially in the us press. i- not ukraine gets into nato now. i especially in the us press. i think that is— especially in the us press. i think that is a — especially in the us press. i think that is a bit— especially in the us press. i think that is a bit of— especially in the us press. i think that is a bit of a _ especially in the us press. i think that is a bit of a red _ especially in the us press. i think that is a bit of a red herring. - that is a bit of a red herring. there — that is a bit of a red herring. there is— that is a bit of a red herring. there is no— that is a bit of a red herring. there is no way— that is a bit of a red herring. there is no way nato - that is a bit of a red herring. - there is no way nato could make ukraine — there is no way nato could make ukraine a — there is no way nato could make ukraine a member— there is no way nato could make ukraine a member right- there is no way nato could make ukraine a member right now. - there is no way nato could make l ukraine a member right now. then nato _ ukraine a member right now. then nato would — ukraine a member right now. then nato would be _ ukraine a member right now. then nato would be at _ ukraine a member right now. then nato would be at war— ukraine a member right now. then nato would be at war with - ukraine a member right now. then nato would be at war with russia. i nato would be at war with russia. that doesn't — nato would be at war with russia. that doesn't preclude _ nato would be at war with russia. that doesn't preclude ukraine - that doesn't preclude ukraine getting — that doesn't preclude ukraine getting nato— that doesn't preclude ukraine getting nato membership - that doesn't preclude ukraine i getting nato membership down that doesn't preclude ukraine - getting nato membership down the line. getting nato membership down the line yes. _ getting nato membership down the line yes. that— getting nato membership down the line. yes, that is— getting nato membership down the line. yes, that is a _ getting nato membership down the line. yes, that is a long _ getting nato membership down the line. yes, that is a long border- line. yes, that is a long border with— line. yes, that is a long border with russia _ line. yes, that is a long border with russia. hopefully, - line. yes, that is a long border with russia. hopefully, at- line. yes, that is a long border. with russia. hopefully, at some point _ with russia. hopefully, at some point you — with russia. hopefully, at some point you will— with russia. hopefully, at some point you will find _ with russia. hopefully, at some point you will find some - with russia. hopefully, at some| point you will find some stability here, _ point you will find some stability here, and — point you will find some stability here, and that _ point you will find some stability here, and that will— point you will find some stability here, and that will be _ point you will find some stability here, and that will be a - point you will find some stability here, and that will be a peaceful border— here, and that will be a peaceful border again _ here, and that will be a peaceful borderagain. but, _ here, and that will be a peaceful borderagain. but, i've- here, and that will be a peaceful borderagain. but, i've got- here, and that will be a peaceful border again. but, i've got to i here, and that will be a peacefuli border again. but, i've got to tell you, _ border again. but, i've got to tell you. i_ border again. but, i've got to tell you. iwas— border again. but, i've got to tell you. i was really— border again. but, i've got to tell you, i was really encouraged - border again. but, i've got to tell you, i was really encouraged by. border again. but, i've got to tell. you, i was really encouraged by this vilnius _ you, i was really encouraged by this vilnius summit. _ you, i was really encouraged by this vilnius summit. a— you, i was really encouraged by this vilnius summit. a lot _ you, i was really encouraged by this vilnius summit. a lot is _ you, i was really encouraged by this vilnius summit. a lot is happening. | vilnius summit. a lot is happening. nato, _ vilnius summit. a lot is happening. nato, if— vilnius summit. a lot is happening. nato, if putin— vilnius summit. a lot is happening. nato, if putin has— vilnius summit. a lot is happening. nato, if putin has done _ vilnius summit. a lot is happening. nato, if putin has done one - vilnius summit. a lot is happening. nato, if putin has done one thing, i nato, if putin has done one thing, it is to _ nato, if putin has done one thing, it is to bring — nato, if putin has done one thing, it is to bring nato, _ nato, if putin has done one thing, it is to bring nato, the _ it is to bring nato, the transatlantic, - it is to bring nato, the transatlantic, closer. it is to bring nato, the - transatlantic, closer together it is to bring nato, the _ transatlantic, closer together than ever before — transatlantic, closer together than ever before i_ transatlantic, closer together than ever before. i got— transatlantic, closer together than ever before. i got the _ transatlantic, closer together than ever before. i got the declarationi ever before. i got the declaration on a _ ever before. i got the declaration on a really— ever before. i got the declaration on a really moving _ ever before. i got the declaration on a really moving to _ ever before. i got the declaration on a really moving to 2% - ever before. i got the declaration on a really moving to 2% of- ever before. i got the declaration on a really moving to 2% of gdp. ever before. i got the declaration . on a really moving to 2% of gdp for defence _ on a really moving to 2% of gdp for defence spending _ on a really moving to 2% of gdp for defence spending is _ on a really moving to 2% of gdp for defence spending is positive. - on a really moving to 2% of gdp for defence spending is positive. my. defence spending is positive. my only admonition _ defence spending is positive. my only admonition was, _ defence spending is positive. my only admonition was, let's - defence spending is positive. my| only admonition was, let's spend defence spending is positive. my. only admonition was, let's spend it wisely. _ only admonition was, let's spend it wisely. and — only admonition was, let's spend it wisely. and peta _ only admonition was, let's spend it wisely, and peta has _ only admonition was, let's spend it wisely, and peta has exactly- only admonition was, let's spend it wisely, and peta has exactly the i wisely, and peta has exactly the right— wisely, and peta has exactly the right point _ wisely, and peta has exactly the right point it— wisely, and peta has exactly the right point. it isn't _ wisely, and peta has exactly the right point. it isn't that- wisely, and peta has exactly the right point. it isn't that you - wisely, and peta has exactly the|

right point. it isn't that you don't need _ right point. it isn't that you don't need to— right point. it isn't that you don't need to tanks. _ right point. it isn't that you don't need to tanks, aircraft, - right point. it isn't that you don'tl need to tanks, aircraft, precision, it isjust _ need to tanks, aircraft, precision, it is just that _ need to tanks, aircraft, precision, it is just that you _ need to tanks, aircraft, precision, it is just that you need _ need to tanks, aircraft, precision, it is just that you need to - need to tanks, aircraft, precision, it is just that you need to think i it is just that you need to think one step — it is just that you need to think one step ahead _ it is just that you need to think one step ahead of— it is just that you need to think one step ahead of your - it is just that you need to think . one step ahead of your adversary it is just that you need to think - one step ahead of your adversary to the inexpensive _ one step ahead of your adversary to the inexpensive new— one step ahead of your adversary to the inexpensive new things - one step ahead of your adversary to the inexpensive new things we - one step ahead of your adversary to l the inexpensive new things we should be doubling _ the inexpensive new things we should be doubling down— the inexpensive new things we should be doubling down on. _ the inexpensive new things we should be doubling down on. really- the inexpensive new things we should be doubling down on.— be doubling down on. really good to have ou be doubling down on. really good to have you on — be doubling down on. really good to have you on the _ be doubling down on. really good to have you on the programme. - be doubling down on. really good to have you on the programme. i - be doubling down on. really good to have you on the programme. i hope| have you on the programme. i hope you come back. have you on the programme. i hope you come back-— have you on the programme. i hope you come back._ you - have you on the programme. i hope you come back._ you are | you come back. thank you. you are watchin: you come back. thank you. you are watching bbc— you come back. thank you. you are watching bbc news. _ let's look at some of the other stories making headlines today. new figures suggest the uk economy shrank in may, but not by as much as economists had predicted. gdp fell by 0.1% compared with the month before; analysts had forecast a bigger drop because of the extra bank holiday in may, to mark the king's coronation. drivers are being urged to brace themselves for higher costs when dropping off friends and family at some of the uk's biggests airports this summer. the rac says charges for short stay visits have risen by almost a third. operators have defended the hikes, saying the extra revenue is reinvested into services. the royal veterinary college has

estimated that in 2021 more than 10% of puppies bought in the uk were illegally imported. that's more than double the figure from 2019. the rvc also says that animals brought into the uk illegally are also more at risk of having been exposed to infectious diseases abroad. the charity, says puppies brought in from abroad are more likely to be aggressive. you're live with bbc news. china has managed to "successfully penetrate every sector of the uk's economy". a report from the parliamentary, intelligence and security committee also concluded that the uk currenly has "no strategy" to deal with it which means we are "severely handicapped" because of a short termist approach. the report puts a lot of the blame for this on whitehall, where resources said the committee are completely inadequate to deal with the threat. they said the "slow speed" in acting left "a lot to be desired".

joining me now is charles parton, senior associate fellow at rusi he spent 22 years of his 37 year diplomatic career working in or on china, hong kong, and taiwan. thank you so much for being with us. this report that the committee has put out today has been sitting on a rishi sunak�*s desk 14 months, since maine. the conclusions are: we have been slow to act, so why has he been sitting it? been slow to act, so why has he been sittin: it? ~ , ., ., ., ., sitting it? well, you would have to ask rishi sunak _ sitting it? well, you would have to ask rishi sunak that. _ sitting it? well, you would have to ask rishi sunak that. but, - sitting it? well, you would have to ask rishi sunak that. but, i- sitting it? well, you would have to ask rishi sunak that. but, i think i ask rishi sunak that. but, i think nevertheless, it is in a sense a timely report. it has come out at a good time, and of course, we would like to have added earlier, that is an extraordinary topic. i hope it contributes to the discussion of the very wide that the chinese intelligence services and other departments are bringing to bear on our economic prosperity. more

broader than that too, normal political targets and our science and technology in particular. yes, it is late, but at least it is here. the reason i ask that about delaying, is that he says the committee has taken the bulk of its evidence from 2020, and since then, the government has strengthened its position. are you persuaded by that? that enough has been done? ho. i that enough has been done? no, i don't think— that enough has been done? no, i don't think enough _ that enough has been done? no, i don't think enough will— that enough has been done? no, i don't think enough will ever - that enough has been done? tic, i don't think enough will ever be done because there is a finite limit to resources. if you look back, to 2016, and george osborne, the golden era —— the riaz rather than one ever —— aurora the government has put in place a certain number of laws, national security investments. there were a number of them. but of

course, it is implementation of those and the speed of reaction and the ability of resources. expertise is pretty thin on the ground and the government. there is a lot where the committee is adding absolutely right to point the finger and be loud about, but at the same time, we are moving. about, but at the same time, we are movinr. , ., , , ., about, but at the same time, we are movinr. , .,, , ., moving. yes, to put this into some kind of context, _ moving. yes, to put this into some kind of context, they _ moving. yes, to put this into some kind of context, they have - moving. yes, to put this into some kind of context, they have the - kind of context, they have the biggest intelligence operation in the world. they are infiltrating universities, academic research, the tech sector, they are entry fearing in everyday life. we had a story the other day about a chinese agent trying to get into an invitation only earn alone drew meeting. it is only earn alone drew meeting. it is wron: to only earn alone drew meeting. it is wrong to think _ only earn alone drew meeting. it 3 wrong to think of it only in kgb terms. a few years ago, the times said that the chinese intelligence services don't act like the kgb. yes, they do. they have immense

resources. you are right to say, it is broader than that. it has a whole state approach. it means that there are a number of other organisations, chinese organisations, like the united front, but also, chinese, from the mainland, have put a lot of pressure on them under the national security laws. if the authorities ask them to help them with technology or putting pressure on chinese students or hong kong students working in the uk, infringing an effect on our academic freedoms and freedom of speech, they don't really have a great deal of choice, because they play pretty nasty at home. if you've got relatives back there, which you have, they may lose theirjobs or find their pensions being cut, or whatever they wish to bear. it is a very widespread gale problem, as you rightly say, but i think to me, the most important aspect of it is the

ask trite attempt to get at important science and technology, which is going to do a lot of damage to our national security and long—term economic interests to our values, and to our data. i think you have got to really make a lot more efforts and we have been. it is efforts and we have been. it is serious stuff _ efforts and we have been. it is serious stuff this. _ efforts and we have been. it is serious stuff this. lord - efforts and we have been. it is serious stuff this. lord peter ricketts, you are on the joint intelligence committee, however it now sits in your old seat must decide what to do. where do you think the priorities are? it is decide what to do. where do you think the priorities are?- think the priorities are? it is a very essential _ think the priorities are? it is a very essential report. - think the priorities are? it is a very essential report. i've - think the priorities are? it is a very essential report. i've just been reading it. 200 pages. a great deal of detail. a lot of case studies about what went wrong. the basic message is that the chinese have adopted a whole state approach, mobilising all of their assets, including citizens, to spy on us, influences, penetrate our institutions, and we have not had a whole state response. it has been compartmental across a government,

not coherent, no real strategy, not enough resources. and it is really a wake—up call, you have been caught napping by this track that has developed, now you need a proper strategy, proper ownership in government, proper resources for the intelligence committee, so that we are properly aware of what is going on. and i think personally, that is a wake—up call be needed to have, we need whitehall to get a grip across the whole of the government, that is where the chinese are operating, and see this in the round. one last point, it also needs to be balanced with what rishi sunak is rightly trying to do, preserve the commercial relationship with china and a capacity to talk to shine about things like climate change. a very complex problem. stand about things like climate change. a very complex problem.— very complex problem. and other balancin: very complex problem. and other balancing act _ very complex problem. and other balancing act for _ very complex problem. and other balancing act for the _ very complex problem. and other balancing act for the prime - very complex problem. and other. balancing act for the prime minister to fulfil. doug heye, iwonder balancing act for the prime minister to fulfil. doug heye, i wonder how much of the detail in that report actually pertains to what is happening in the united states? i happening in the united states? i don't think we have much detail in the united — don't think we have much detail in the united states, but this is a

bipartisan _ the united states, but this is a bipartisan issue. whether you are republican or democrat, you basically— republican or democrat, you basically have permission to be as tough _ basically have permission to be as tough on — basically have permission to be as tough on china as you want to in your— tough on china as you want to in your rhetoric, and it is because, we see not— your rhetoric, and it is because, we see notjust — your rhetoric, and it is because, we see notjust what has been detailed already. _ see notjust what has been detailed already, but we see more and more examples _ already, but we see more and more examples of— already, but we see more and more examples of china infiltrating itself — examples of china infiltrating itself into everyday american life. two recent — itself into everyday american life. two recent examples: one, we found there _ two recent examples: one, we found there is— two recent examples: one, we found there is a _ two recent examples: one, we found there is a chinese police station in new york— there is a chinese police station in new york city, which is something that caught everyone by surprise. and the _ that caught everyone by surprise. and the other story we have seen this week, — and the other story we have seen this week, increased purchases of agricultural land by chinese interests, drawing a lot of concern from _ interests, drawing a lot of concern from the _ interests, drawing a lot of concern from the government. we are seeing both in— from the government. we are seeing both in a _ from the government. we are seeing both in a state and federal level, that is— both in a state and federal level, that is bills being brought forward to try— that is bills being brought forward to try to— that is bills being brought forward to try to get out that, which at into— to try to get out that, which at into some _ to try to get out that, which at into some problematic areas as well. it is into some problematic areas as well. it is very— into some problematic areas as well. it is very easy to identify some of these _ it is very easy to identify some of these problems here, the solutions are a _ these problems here, the solutions are a little — these problems here, the solutions are a little trickier.— are a little trickier. very quickly, i have are a little trickier. very quickly, i have 40 _ are a little trickier. very quickly, i have 40 seconds _ are a little trickier. very quickly, i have 40 seconds left, - are a little trickier. very quickly, i have 40 seconds left, china - are a little trickier. very quickly, i i have 40 seconds left, china pass top diplomat said today, the us must refrain from interfering in china pass internal affairs. that sounds a

bit of pot calling the kettle black. it always is. they consider as advocating for democracy as meddling. i can tell you, 2017, i was in _ meddling. i can tell you, 2017, i was in hong kong, and i saw a pro—democracy march. i remember thinking, _ pro—democracy march. i remember thinking, some of those people will be arrested. i bet at this point, some _ be arrested. i bet at this point, some of— be arrested. i bet at this point, some of them are completely gone. we are some of them are completely gone. we. are out some of them are completely gone. are out of some of them are completely gone. - are out of time. thank you for coming on to share your thoughts. we will be back after the break to talk about elon musk and his new ai company. hello there. it's been a familiar story again today. cool, some sunshine and some showers. the next few days, though, could be turning wet and windy. this area of cloud is a developing area of low pressure that will bring the wind and the rain up from the southwest. and ahead of that, whilst the showers that we had today will fade away, we've got a bit of thicker cloud bringing some patchy rain northwards across wales, north west england, northern ireland and southern scotland. and they're probably going to be

a lot of cloud around overnight. so a little bit warmer than last night away for northern scotland where we've got single figure temperatures. but let's focus on the southwest. this is where we've probably got the worst of the weather, i think, for friday. as well as the rain, we've got these strong, gusty winds, gusting 50 miles an hour perhaps, and some rough seas. and that rain is going to be with us for much of the day. before it does clear away later, it could turn heavy and thundery. that rain will push further north and eastwards across more of england and wales, up into northern ireland, maybe eventually into the south of scotland. something a bit drier for the north of the country. could be muggy for a while in the southeast, but if anything, those temperatures are likely to be even lower than they were today in the wind and the rain. and it's all due to that area of low pressure deepening as it heads across the uk. it's going to be sitting around into saturday, lots of isobars on the chart, an indication it's going to be unusually windy, really, for this time of the year. and the rain when it comes could be heavy and thundery. of course, it's going to stay on the cool side as well. focus on the winds, though, for saturday, and the strongest winds will be

across england and wales. it's in this area that we're more likely to have some impacts because of the strength of the wind, and the strongest winds could be along some southern coasts and over the hills, but particularly gusty when those showers arrive and it doesn't take long for them to set off. we've got a lot of downpours developing widely across england and wales where it's windy. not quite so windy for scotland and northern ireland, but again, some heavy and thundery rain is possible. all depressing the temperatures, of course. that area of low pressure still with us, then on saturday will continue to just drift northwards, could take the worst of the weather away with it as well. but, if anything, it may be a windier day for scotland to northern ireland, perhaps the north of england, not quite so windy on sunday further south. and there may well be some sunshine around, but still some heavy thundery showers, wetter weather in the north and the top temperatures 20—21 celsius.

hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. elon the context on bbc news. musk allowances the la| and elon musk allowances the launch of and x al to elon musk allowances the launch of and x alto understand reality.