over the past decade, he's overseen a crumbling economy, hyperinflation, widespread hunger and the exodus of a quarter of venezuela's population — and yet, he is still in power, and the opposition�*s big idea, the creation of an alternative government, has foundered. next year, there's supposed to be a presidential election. my guest, maria corina machado, is currently frontrunner amongst opposition candidates — but does she have any realistic chance of toppling venezuela's strongman?

maria corina machado in caracas, venezuela, welcome to hardtalk. thank you very much, stephen. it's a pleasure. well, it's great to have you on the show. for years, you have argued that participating in democracy in venezuela under nicolas maduro�*s rule is a grave mistake because it ends up legitimising maduro. so, how come you've now decided to put your hat in the ring and seek the nomination from the opposition to fight in next year's presidential election? for years, we, the venezuelan people have been explaining to the world the way nicolas maduro has been rigging elections and the turning down, through control and repression, thejudiciary system, the national assembly, as well as the military and every single democratic institution.

we've reached a point in which we realise that maduro is willing to do anything to stay in power, and the only way through which we can confront and defeat him is building a huge, unprecedented, social movement, citizen movement, that is right now arousing and growing. finally, the world has to understand that this is a criminal system, much worse than a conventional dictatorship, and the only way we can stop migration, we can stop destabilisation of democratic systems and in other countries in the region is by a transition to democracy. that requires strength, certainly, as well as accompany and support from democratic nations throughout the world. right, but i'm still puzzled as to why you think it is going to be possible for you to run in an election while maduro

is still in power. you've just described what you see as all of the massive negatives about maduro�*s control of your country, so is your standing, seeking to be the opposition candidate, is that of purely symbolic value? do you believe this election will never happen, or what? oh, it's not symbolic, it's realistic, and it's growing in strength and support and hope — and we are certainly not the same, stephen, as we were years ago, we, the venezuelan people, and certainly the regime. it is important to understand that maduro has sacked the country. not only the oil enterprises as well as the rest of the economy has been destroyed. they have robbed every single resource and has our country totally indebted. debts that they cannot pay because no—one is going to invest in a country that is last — i mean, last — in every single index

of rule of law in the world. so they have, right now, a huge problem. they have arms, certainly, but even the support of the regime in the basis and middle ranks of the armed forces and police is melting down because people in the military and in other groups do have families — sisters, mothers, children — that are also starving. over nine million people in venezuela are under starvation right now. how... so, the regime is not the same. the world understands maduro is toxic. go ahead. how credible are you, though, as the woman to topple maduro when actually you've been banned from holding public office for 15 years? so, even if you were to win the nomination to represent the opposition later this year, under venezuela's current laws, you couldn't run for president.

well, the question would be, don't you think, that that's the proof of how much the regime fears facing us, facing me, in the next year election? because, actually, as you have said, what all the opposition forces have accepted is going to primary process. that has nothing to do with the regime or the institutions they control. it is a private process of democratic and citizen forces in which every single venezuelan inside our country or abroad can participate, and certainly that exercise will provide us of a huge legitimacy to have a single voice towards international community, around a strong and robust strategy, how to face the regime and start overcoming every single obstacle. believe me, trying to disqualify me is just one of a large list of very tough obstacles we need to face

and overcome in order to have a free and fair election in venezuela. we are 18 months away from that date, though, and we do have time to build strength. yeah, but one of the biggest obstacles you've got is actually sort of an act of self—harm, in that the opposition in venezuela has been deeply embarrassed and damaged by the failure of that political initiative launched byjuan guaido back in 2019 to offer up an alternative government, to say, "maduro�*s illegitimate. "i'm the real leader of venezuela." the americans backed that idea, many countries in the west and in latin america, but the whole thing ran out of steam. guaido is now politically finished and it embarrassed the entire venezuelan opposition because it made you look incoherent. would you acknowledge that?

let's say we have had several setbacks. that's true. you have to understand that we're facing a criminal regime that's willing to do anything to persecute, to blackmail, to go against families — and that's one of the reasons you see people who you used to trust in different sectors, not only politicians, that some...you know, somehow decide to abandon the fight, and it's tough, and i don't want tojudge anyone, but that's why venezuelan people had been, in the last month, somewhat, let's say... ..quieter or calmed or with a step back, but suddenly, with the whole idea of the primary process, venezuela has awakened. what we've seen in the last five months is impressive. i haven't seen this before. i've been fighting against this regime for over 20 years. but ms machado... i have problems throughout my country... i'm sorry. ..even driving my car... yeah. forgive me for interrupting,

ms machado, but when you talk about this... go ahead. ..new move and mood in venezuela, i'm thinking to myself, i've visited your country several times. in 2014, 2017, we saw mass protests on the streets, hundreds of thousands of venezuelans demanding political change and the end to maduro�*s regime. we don't see those crowds today. you in the opposition are not mobilising ordinary venezuelans today in the way that you did, let's say, nine years ago or seven years ago. actually, it's different. you are right. a lot of people believe that 2024 might be their last chance to have their families back together. the last chance not to lose whatever they have left in their small businesses or properties, and even the last chance to stay in venezuela. so this fight has turned beyond a political one, and this fight has turned

into a spiritual one, existential one. i've never seen something like this before, stephen — i've been in the streets for over 20 years, and you know that. so i do think the regime is worried because they know this is new. they are losing all their grip on society and social control through food stamps and, you know, money they give to people that behave well. they have lost their control on the base of the military. so i do think it's going to be tough. i think the primary process should be care — taken care of. i hope the international community understands that the only way we can stop migration and the destruction of venezuela is through giving back hope to our country that we do have a possibility, a way to pave out through a democratic and specific process, and i'm committed to that. right... and we will go all the way, regardless of what the regime does

to me and other people. right. we'll get to the international community and what you want to see from them injust a minute, butjust another question about the internal politics of venezuela. you've always been one of the most outspoken, one of the most radical or militant representatives of the opposition in that you've opposed dialogue with maduro. you want to see socialism completely dismantled. that's always been your position — but there are others who have a different position, and, for example, there are opposition leaders who agreed to go into a dialogue negotiating process with maduro�*s people in mexico at the end of last year. it's supposed to be continuing this year. right now it seems stuck — but there are those in the opposition who think the best way forward is to negotiate with maduro. do you think they're wrong? i did not discard a negotiation at some point, but i do want a negotiation in which we can force the regime to move forward

to a transition to democracy. i do not want a negotiation to have the status quo in place, which is what has happened in the last 15 initiatives of dialogue that have taken place in the last 20 years. i mean, we have to be very objective. what has been the outcome of these proceedings and dialogues? maduro has gained legitimacy, money, and they have...and time, which is, at the end, what they want. they don't care about venezuela being destroyed and people dying. so my point is, we need to gain strength and legitimacy to go into a true negotiation table in which the people of venezuela can be sitting at that table and in which not a few representatives of the democratic sector get what they want. so once again, i believe the primary process will be a unique opportunity to have that leadership legitimised so we can go into a new negotiation in which we will be in a relative position, stronger relative position, in order to have true

negotiations with the regime. you claim to speak for all venezuelans, but let us remember your background, ms machado. you come from an elite family, your father ran one of the biggest steel companies in venezuela before the socialist revolution, you were educated partly in the united states, you've travelled all over the world. most venezuelans right now are experiencing profound poverty, suffering real hunger. a quarter of the entire population has actually fled from venezuela. do you think you really understand ordinary venezuelans? particularly when you say that your solution for venezuela is a sort of thatcherite free market capitalism in which you even want to see the oil industry in your country completely privatised. do you think ordinary venezuelans really agree with you on that sort of thing? absolutely. over 20 years of socialism has

turned venezuela into a country that desires to have prosperity, to have open markets, respect for private property, and dignity, mainly dignity. that you can live and you can succeed with your work and live with dignity. that you can have employment that give you the possibility of living well. and that obsession of dividing our country into black and white, rich and poor, the past and the present has turned down. i mean, we are citizens. we all long the same. we want to have our families together. we want to have our kids back home. and we want to have a country we can live with respect and recognise each other and get plurality, which is essential to democracy. and this is beautiful because, for the first time in our history, yes, we are proposing a vision of development of venezuela that has the individual, the family in the centre and not

the state on top of us. and venezuela is more than willing to embrace this possibility, and very excited about it, especially the poor and the young. i do want to be a little personal with you because you've talked about it in the past — that is your own family. you have three children, i believe, and all of them are currently living outside of venezuela. ijust wonder, you know, when we talk about the millions of venezuelans who fled from the country, whether you, given that you're separated from your own children, whether you really think right now it is worth staying in venezuela and fighting maduro politically. it is absolutely worth it. and i'm sure that one day when we look back, we will agree with that. a few days ago, a woman in merida told me she told me, "you are the only instrument i have left to bring my kids back."

and i looked at her back and i say, "and you are the only one i have to bring my own." so this is very profound. this is very powerful. and even though i sometimes feel very guilty that i've not been with my children in very important moments of their lives, i've been banned from leaving venezuela for over ten years, i'm sure they realise we're doing this for them because i want them to all, as well as the rest of venezuelan young and children, in the future to live in a country they can feel proud of. earlier you said to me that you were looking to the international community for support in your fight to get free and fair elections, genuine democracy to venezuela. how disappointed are you that, right now, the tide seems to be running against you and in favour of nicolas maduro? particularly in your home region, latin america, with a host

of new leftist leaders in power in key governments across the region, and leaders who are expressing a much warmer, more sympathetic feeling towards maduro and his socialist government. well, we have to understand that nicolas maduro is not alone in this process. he has a wide range of relations with criminal networks, that go from drug cartels to guerrilla to terrorist groups in the middle east. hang on. i have to stop you. ms machado, i have to stop you, cos i'm not talking about shady characters and criminal networks — i'm talking about a new generation of democratically elected leaders across latin america. for example, just a month or two ago, president lula in brazil expressed his much warmerfeelings toward nicolas maduro. we've got the colombian president,

gustavo petro, who seems to be much less inclined to support the venezuelan opposition and much readier to do deals with nicolas maduro. all i'm saying is, the regional environment has changed and not in a way that favours you. let me get there, because that's how it looks right now. but it's important to understand that nicolas maduro�*s ties with russia, with putin, with iran are closer and more evident than ever. so those kind of, let's say, ideological supports that he might get from lula, petro, amlo, you know, start to be questioned. just see what the president of chile just did a few days ago and say, "no, no, there are democratic and human rights, huge violations in venezuela, which are a red line." so maduro is turning into a toxic ally. and lula's intent to embrace maduro backfired in his own country,

in his own congress. so i do think that there is a possibility that these, let's say, ideological closer presidents in the region will understand that it's in their own interest to push maduro into a kind of transition, such as the one that we represent, in which we are willing to do an orderly and sustainable transition, in which we will open to our whole society and we will go through a strong and serious negotiation process in which maduro will understand that it is the only opportunity he's got left and that his allies will support it as well... thing is... ..into having free and fair elections at the end of next year in venezuela. right. the thing is, you're trying to put a positive gloss on it and you want to believe that pressure is mounting, international pressure is mounting on maduro, but surely the biggest problem

you've got of all, in many ways, is in the united states, where it's quite clear that the era of so—called maximum pressure on venezuela has come to an end. the us, given its absolute preoccupation with the ukraine war, is looking to forge new energy ties, which may well include using venezuelan oil. but they also have indicated, and i'm quoting a us official here who spoke just a short time ago, he said, "the biden administration does not want to keep sanctions on venezuela in perpetuity." the new atmosphere in washington is really not helping you at all, is it? no, it's not helping. and perhaps the reason was they were very pessimistic because they weren't seeing the possibility of a true change and maduro being defeated. but that has changed dramatically in the last month, especially in the last weeks. no serious investment will come in a country where there is no rule of law. and the only way venezuela can turn into that energy hub of the americas

is with 0ur government, and that's precisely what we'll do. so we need to align the interests of all stakeholders and make them understand that it is the greatest opportunity for everyone — creditors, bondholders, investment, investors, and certainly the venezuelan people. so having this, chance this true chance to believe again there is a huge opportunity to defeat maduro next year, that this social movement is growing, that it will not be stopped, i hope and i believe that they will change the policies in certain countries that have lost faith in venezuela, and it will come from us, the people. we will not be stopped, we will not be disqualified, and we will not... and will not give up. we will fight until the end and we will bring back democracy and families back together in venezuela. right. well, we're almost at an end, but you've just used

a very interesting phrase. "we, the venezuelan people," you just said. are you sure your interests truly align with the ordinary people of venezuela? one last issue i want to put to you — sanctions, particularly the us, tough us sanctions on venezuela. you say they must be maintained. you do not want to see relaxation. many venezuelans say something very different — they are hurting ordinary venezuelans who are suffering terrible poverty anyway, and they would love to see a relaxation of sanctions again. are you sure that your particular interests, as an elite opposition leader, coincide with those of the venezuelan people? stephen, i am a venezuelan citizen. i do not divide people in any of those categories, which socialism does. unfortunately, this is something we all venezuelans share right now — i'm a venezuelan mother with my kids

very far, and i want to ensure that they all have the opportunity to grow in a great country that gives opportunity to all. and perhaps you should come soon and feel the magnitude of this energy growing. sanctions are the consequences of huge, you know, obscene violations of human rights, corruption and narcotrafficking, and should be used to pressure the regime to move forward into what we all venezuelans dream — to have a country where we can be back together, when we have respect, you havejustice, and, most of all, we have dignity and freedom. and that's what we represent today. so i am confident that, even though we have huge dangers in the face of us, huge challenges, we've been preparing for over two decades for a moment in which we can all put

all that talent and accumulated strength and experience, and the time has arrived, and this is the time. and we will do it right and we will go until the end. all right. we, unfortunately, have reached time on this interview. i have to end it there. but, maria corina machado, it's been a pleasure talking to you. thanks forjoining me from caracas. thank you very much. hello there. there's still no end in sight to the unsettled run of weather that we're in the middle of at the moment. we had a day of sunshine and showers on thursday, but we've got something wetter

and windier moving in for friday. it's this area of cloud, an area of low pressure that will continue to develop, continue to strengthen, through friday and saturday, and will ultimately bring some strong winds across many areas with gales for some. those winds strong enough to bring some localised disruption. now, the rain from that system has already started to arrive across the southwest of the uk. it's been a bit of damp weather as well for northern ireland and western scotland, so you might see a little bit of light rain here for the next few hours. mild start to the day friday, 111—15 degrees celsius, but it will be blustery as well with some of the strongest winds through the day across wales and south west england, where gusts into the 50s of miles an hour could be strong enough to bring down some tree branches, maybe one or two weak trees. and certainly there'll be large battering, dangerous, waves hitting the coastline. through the rest of the day, that area of rain extends across the whole of wales, the whole of england, reaching southern scotland and right across northern ireland where the rain looks particularly heavy through the course of the afternoon. northern scotland, a lot of cloud, a cool wind here, but at least the weather for a time will be a little bit drier, at least. temperatures across the board below average forjuly.

now, on into the weekend, the same area of low pressure, smack bang over the top of the uk. this time, though, the strongest winds will be working a little bit further eastwards. so we'll see those potentially disruptive gusts of wind reaching parts of eastern england as well. again, the winds strong enough to bring down a few tree branches. rather than the persistent outbreaks of rain that we have on friday, saturday, it's a slightly less grim day. not greatest of weather, really. it's a day of sunshine and showers. the showers really widespread, some of them heavy and thundery. i suppose one of the benefits of those strong winds is any individual shower won't stay overhead very long before it gets blown across the sky. but i think it is day where many areas will see several showers during the day. 0n sunday's forecast. again, it's another showery one, perhaps some longer spells of rain across northern scotland. still blustery, but those winds are starting to calm down a little bit. temperatures still below average for the time of year. any better next week weather—wise? well, not really. it stays unsettled. and that means we are going

to see further showers. of course, it won't be raining all the time. there will be some warm spells of sunshine between the showers, but it'll still be quite wet for the time of year.

welcome to newsday — welcome to newsday — reporting live from singapore — i'm mariko 0i. the headlines... reporting live from the show must not go on — thousands of hollywood actorsjoin writers on the picket line. a fierce heatwave is gripping parts of europe, temperatures reach more than a0 degrees celsius, as the world swelters through another el nino. a landmark trial in new zealand focusses on allegations of health and safety failures

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