will be on the minds of many public sector workers. those recommendations will be subject to negotiation and i don't helpful for me to wade into that. flat negotiation and i don't helpful for me to wade into that.— negotiation and i don't helpful for me to wade into that. not saying yes or no to his — me to wade into that. not saying yes or no to his rivals' _ me to wade into that. not saying yes or no to his rivals' attempt _ me to wade into that. not saying yes or no to his rivals' attempt to - me to wade into that. not saying yes or no to his rivals' attempt to end - or no to his rivals' attempt to end public sector strikes.— or no to his rivals' attempt to end public sector strikes. today's offer is final. public sector strikes. today's offer is final- we _ public sector strikes. today's offer is final. we will _ public sector strikes. today's offer is final. we will not _ public sector strikes. today's offer is final. we will not negotiate - is final. we will not negotiate again— is final. we will not negotiate again on_ is final. we will not negotiate again on this year's settlements and no amount_ again on this year's settlements and no amount of strikes will change our decision _ no amount of strikes will change our decision. ., ,., ., no amount of strikes will change our decision. ., ., , ., , decision. labour will not promise noodies decision. labour will not promise goodies for— decision. labour will not promise goodies for all. _ decision. labour will not promise goodies for all. nothing - decision. labour will not promise goodies for all. nothing tighter l goodies for all. nothing tighter than his grip on the cheque book. instead, he promises change. as he joins us this morning, what does keir starmer mean by reform or bust? he is here for ourfinal big interview before the summer break. keir starmer is life. the trade secretary who also wanted to be the prime minister kemi badenochjoins us from new zealand where she's just signed us up to one of the biggest trading blocs in the world. and forget wimbledon — what about the women's football world cup?

we'll talk to a matilda, sarah walsh, former football star and a host of the tournament. morning — for the last time this summer, welcome to you and to my panel. dame sharon white, chair ofjohn lewis, oli dugmore, from social media publisher politics joe, and dame andrea leadsom, former conservative cabinet minister. why have one game if you could have two? let's start with what is making the news. the papers have different takes. the sunday express has £12 trillion brexit trade boost. the mail on sunday says george can skip stint in armed forces. the sunday times reports

on defence secretary ben wallace saying he won't stand at the next election and warning of war on three fronts. and the observer has starmer telling the labour party, we can't spend our way back to power. andrea, let's start with you on ben wallace. he's a very well respected minister in the conservative party, it's not a great vote of confidence in rishi sunak. he a great vote of confidence in rishi sunak. �* , ., , ., sunak. he said, he's had several ears in sunak. he said, he's had several years in the _ sunak. he said, he's had several years in the job. _ sunak. he said, he's had several years in the job, he _ sunak. he said, he's had several years in the job, he is _ sunak. he said, he's had several years in the job, he is one - sunak. he said, he's had several years in the job, he is one of- sunak. he said, he's had several years in the job, he is one of thej years in thejob, he is one of the longest serving people in thatjob as secretary of state for defence and he feels his time is up. that's completely reasonable and we owe him a debt of gratitude. he's done a greatjob at a very, very difficult time. he's really demonstrated on behalf of the government a real commitment to supporting ukraine. and actually, when you look back, it isn't a no—brainer but we are

supporting ukraine and helping them to fight back the russians. there is a world in which russia did invade ukraine and then what would have be next? i think uk determination to get the rest of the world, europe and the us to really support ukraine is in small part due to ben's determination.— is in small part due to ben's determination. happy politicians don't walk away _ determination. happy politicians don't walk away from _ determination. happy politicians don't walk away from big - determination. happy politicians don't walk away from big jobs i determination. happy politicians. don't walk away from big jobs and there are more than a0 mps who say they are leaving at the next election. it gives a sense that people are looking at what's on offer and don't want a part of it any more. i offer and don't want a part of it any more-— offer and don't want a part of it an more. ., �* , ~ any more. i don't quite see it like that. it any more. i don't quite see it like that- it is — any more. i don't quite see it like that. it is exhausting. _ any more. i don't quite see it like that. it is exhausting. i've - any more. i don't quite see it like that. it is exhausting. i've been l any more. i don't quite see it like| that. it is exhausting. i've been an mp for 13 years now and actually things have changed a lot. the harassment on social media for example, the vitriol in the press. people do get tired of it and i think a lot of the colleagues walking away now are just thinking, i want to do something else with my life. ~ . i want to do something else with my life. . ., ., i want to do something else with my life. ~ ., ., ., ., ~ ., life. we are about to talk to keir starmer. sharon _ life. we are about to talk to keir starmer. sharon white, - life. we are about to talk to keir starmer. sharon white, you've l life. we are about to talk to keir - starmer. sharon white, you've done many big jobs and were seen at the treasury for some time. he is clear

labour isn't going to be a party of big spending, is that right? i think what's interesting _ big spending, is that right? i think what's interesting is _ big spending, is that right? i think what's interesting is spending - big spending, is that right? i think what's interesting is spending is l what's interesting is spending is going _ what's interesting is spending is going to — what's interesting is spending is going to be tight whoever is in government over the next couple of years _ government over the next couple of years but _ government over the next couple of years but i— government over the next couple of years but i think there is still scope — years but i think there is still scope for— years but i think there is still scope for some big and bold action on whether— scope for some big and bold action on whether it's housing, planning, education — on whether it's housing, planning, education i— on whether it's housing, planning, education. i think what i would be looking _ education. i think what i would be looking for— education. i think what i would be looking for is to see a government thais— looking for is to see a government that's hold. — looking for is to see a government that's bold, decisive action for many— that's bold, decisive action for many people up and down the country, the big _ many people up and down the country, the big issue _ many people up and down the country, the big issue is cost of living, hills— the big issue is cost of living, bills going up and that has to be addressed. bills going up and that has to be addressed-— addressed. your audience, your website caters _ addressed. your audience, your website caters a _ addressed. your audience, your website caters a lot _ addressed. your audience, your website caters a lot to - addressed. your audience, your website caters a lot to young i website caters a lot to young people. what would be the number one thing you think your audience would like to hearfrom keir starmer today? like to hear from keir starmer toda ? ., , ., , , in what today? housing, to be brief. in what wa ? today? housing, to be brief. in what way? building _ today? housing, to be brief. in what way? building them. _ today? housing, to be brief. in what way? building them. let's _ today? housing, to be brief. in what way? building them. let's see - today? housing, to be brief. in what way? building them. let's see 1 - way? building them. let's see1 million a year _ way? building them. let's see1 million a year for _ way? building them. let's see1 million a year for the _ way? building them. let's see1 million a year for the first - way? building them. let's see1 million a year for the first term | way? building them. let's see 1 l million a year for the first term of a labour— million a year for the first term of a labour government. _ million a year for the first term of a labour government.— a labour government. using taxoayers — a labour government. using taxpayers' money? - a labour government. using taxpayers' money? could i a labour government. using | taxpayers' money? could do, a labour government. using i taxpayers' money? could do, could borrow as well. _

taxpayers' money? could do, could borrow as well. rowing _ taxpayers' money? could do, could borrow as well. rowing has - taxpayers' money? could do, could borrow as well. rowing has been . borrow as well. rowing has been higher— borrow as well. rowing has been higher than— borrow as well. rowing has been higher than recently— borrow as well. rowing has been higher than recently but - higher than recently but historically— higher than recently but historically its _ higher than recently but historically its low - higher than recently but historically its low and i higher than recently but i historically its low and the higher than recently but - historically its low and the social good _ historically its low and the social good from — historically its low and the social good from something _ historically its low and the social good from something like - good from something like house—building _ good from something like house—building as - good from something like house—building as well. good from something like house—building as well asj good from something like - house—building as well as many good from something like _ house—building as well as many other reforms _ house—building as well as many other reforms he _ house—building as well as many other reforms he could _ house—building as well as many other reforms he could the _ house—building as well as many other reforms he could the social— house—building as well as many other reforms he could the social good i reforms he could the social good outweighs — reforms he could the social good outweighs the _ reforms he could the social good outweighs the finances. - we'll hear from we'll hearfrom keir we'll hear from keir starmer we'll hearfrom keir starmer in we'll hear from keir starmer in a second. now, cast your mind back three years. labour had been hammered at the election, and a fresh—faced keir starmer�*s firstjob was to pull the party back from the brink. winning next time seemed impossible. but now, with a strong and sustained lead in the polls, it looks like he mightjust do it. but so much has changed since then — believe it or not, winning might be the easy part. here's a reminder of some of the problems piling up. ifeel anxious on behalf of our patients and their families around the delays to care. and that's a cumulative effect of the strikes. the last 6—12 months have been more challenging than i've ever known in the time i've worked here. the cost of living has gone up. so much, people are going to be struggling with mortgages. i can't downsize any smaller unless i lived in a shoe box.

it's gas bills and electric bills, it'sjust too hard. they're getting stopped and brought and then i getting taken wherever, _ to hotels, and everything like that. and there's people here i on the breadline that don't have any money to eat. if we don't act now, this world will not be the world which we would wish anyone to live in. well, he is here. welcome to the studio. are you sure you want the job? studio. are you sure you want the “ob? ~ studio. are you sure you want the 'ob? . ., ., 4' studio. are you sure you want the “ob? ~ ., ., ,, , ., ~ job? well, looking up that i think it's a list of— job? well, looking up that i think it's a list of the _ job? well, looking up that i think it's a list of the failures _ job? well, looking up that i think it's a list of the failures of - job? well, looking up that i think it's a list of the failures of the i it's a list of the failures of the last 13 years. all of those very human stories show the impact of a failure to grow our economy, our economy hasn't grown significantly over the last 13 years. of course then we had the kamikaze budget last year that did even more harm and its working people who pay the price of

this tory chaos. working people who pay the price of this tory chaos-— this tory chaos. does the situation called for someone _ this tory chaos. does the situation called for someone to _ this tory chaos. does the situation called for someone to do - this tory chaos. does the situation called for someone to do things i called for someone to do things really differently, very differently?— really differently, very differentl ? , ~ . really differently, very differentl? , . ., ., ., ., differently? yes. we have to have a comlete differently? yes. we have to have a complete change — differently? yes. we have to have a complete change in _ differently? yes. we have to have a complete change in the _ differently? yes. we have to have a complete change in the way - differently? yes. we have to have a complete change in the way we i complete change in the way we govern. and that's why since we last sat here i had set out labour's five missions the government, the big things we want to achieve, the change that we want to see under a labour government. what i've concentrated on is not the sticking plaster, dealing with the immediate problem, but actually fixing the fundamentals. whether that's growing the economy. we want the highest sustained growth in the g7. whether that's the nhs notjust back on its feet but fit for the future. breaking the class ceiling when it comes to education, making sure that no longer are children and young people, theirfuture no longer are children and young people, their future determined no longer are children and young people, theirfuture determined by the earnings and income of their parents. dealing with safer streets. and of course making sure that we have clean power by 2030, which will make a massive difference to not

just bills but energy security. you've done your equivalent of rishi sunak�*s five pledges and the things you want to fix that the long—term. you say you need to do things differently, let's test what you might do differently because there is an immediate problem at the moment with public sector pay. rishi sunak is offering doctor 6%, they say no. he says no more talking. what would you do? this say no. he says no more talking. what would you do?— what would you do? this is the government's _ what would you do? this is the government's problem. - what would you do? this is the government's problem. they i what would you do? this is the l government's problem. they are what would you do? this is the i government's problem. they are as good as break our public services, they've created a situation where wages have been stagnant. what they've created a situation where wages have been stagnant. what would ou do wages have been stagnant. what would you do differently _ wages have been stagnant. what would you do differently in _ wages have been stagnant. what would you do differently in that _ you do differently in that situation?— you do differently in that situation? , ., ,., ., situation? they need to sort out this mess- _ situation? they need to sort out this mess- i— situation? they need to sort out this mess. i would _ situation? they need to sort out this mess. i would do _ situation? they need to sort out this mess. i would do this i this mess. i would do this differently by growing the economy. we have to grow, grow, grow our economy. if we have to grow, grow, grow our econom . we have to grow, grow, grow our economy-— we have to grow, grow, grow our econom . ~ , economy. if he were prime minister riaht now, economy. if he were prime minister right now. this _ economy. if he were prime minister right now, this is _ economy. if he were prime minister right now, this is exactly _ economy. if he were prime minister right now, this is exactly the - economy. if he were prime minister right now, this is exactly the kind i right now, this is exactly the kind of problem that might face you, a pay dispute with a powerful union, the doctor say they won't accept it, rishi sunak says no more negotiating, what would you do you back to junior doctors or the prime minister? ~ ., , ., ., minister? well, we would be around the table negotiating _

minister? well, we would be around the table negotiating and _ minister? well, we would be around the table negotiating and we - minister? well, we would be around the table negotiating and we would l the table negotiating and we would settle this dispute. i think many people would say why has it taken this long even to have one step towards progress? many people have had operations cancelled, many people have been deeply affected. under the last labour government we settle disputes. take the nursing dispute, you didn't have a national nursing dispute under the last labour government, what you did have was lower waiting lists and higher confidence in the nhs. but was lower waiting lists and higher confidence in the nhs.— was lower waiting lists and higher confidence in the nhs. but you would keep negotiating _ confidence in the nhs. but you would keep negotiating and _ confidence in the nhs. but you would keep negotiating and the _ confidence in the nhs. but you would keep negotiating and the implicationl keep negotiating and the implication is you would offer more?— is you would offer more? laura, look, the _ is you would offer more? laura, look, the election _ is you would offer more? laura, look, the election will— is you would offer more? laura, look, the election will be - is you would offer more? laura, i look, the election will be sometime next year, we will inherit whatever situation we inherit. you next year, we will inherit whatever situation we inherit.— next year, we will inherit whatever situation we inherit. you want to be prime minister, _ situation we inherit. you want to be prime minister, this _ situation we inherit. you want to be prime minister, this is _ situation we inherit. you want to be prime minister, this is exactly i situation we inherit. you want to be prime minister, this is exactly the l prime minister, this is exactly the kind of thing that might face you. doctors will not accept a 6%, you say the government to keep negotiating. the implication is they should offer more than 6%? this negotiating. the implication is they should offer more than 6%?- should offer more than 6%? this is the government's _ should offer more than 6%? this is the government's mess _ should offer more than 6%? this is the government's mess and - should offer more than 6%? this is the government's mess and it's i should offer more than 6%? this is the government's mess and it's forj the government's mess and it's for them to sort it out. i’m the government's mess and it's for them to sort it out.— the government's mess and it's for them to sort it out. i'm asking what ou do. them to sort it out. i'm asking what you do- what _ them to sort it out. i'm asking what you do- what i _ them to sort it out. i'm asking what you do. what i do _ them to sort it out. i'm asking what you do. what i do is _ them to sort it out. i'm asking what you do. what i do is i _ them to sort it out. i'm asking what you do. what i do is i would - them to sort it out. i'm asking what you do. what i do is i would be i you do. what i do is i would be laser focused _ you do. what i do is i would be

laser focused on _ you do. what i do is i would be laser focused on growing i you do. what i do is i would be laser focused on growing the i you do. what i do is i would be - laser focused on growing the economy with a plan for growing the economy. i would also be laser focused on reforming our public services to make sure that we take the weight off then. d0 make sure that we take the weight off then. ,., ., ,, make sure that we take the weight off then. ,., ., ~ ,., ., make sure that we take the weight off then. ., ~ ,., ., ., off then. do not think some of our viewers might _ off then. do not think some of our viewers might hear— off then. do not think some of our viewers might hear when - off then. do not think some of our viewers might hear when you i off then. do not think some of our viewers might hear when you say| off then. do not think some of ourj viewers might hear when you say i don't want to wade in, they can, keir starmer is trying to persuade me he wants to be prime minister, he would be different and get things done and you say you don't want to wade in? ihla done and you say you don't want to wade in? ., ., ., ., , ,.,, ., wade in? no leader of the opposition is auoin to wade in? no leader of the opposition is going to sit — wade in? no leader of the opposition is going to sit on _ wade in? no leader of the opposition is going to sit on a _ wade in? no leader of the opposition is going to sit on a tv _ wade in? no leader of the opposition is going to sit on a tv studio - is going to sit on a tv studio saying the percentage that they would agree on a hypothetical discussion. i'm not even in the room for these negotiations. what i would do is approach this very, very differently in government. we would negotiate. but the most important thing is to get to the root cause. the root cause is the economic failure of the last 13 years. we've got to turn it around.— got to turn it around. let's talk about reform, _ got to turn it around. let's talk about reform, public _ got to turn it around. let's talk about reform, public sector i got to turn it around. let's talk i about reform, public sector reform. he said this morning when it comes to public services it's not about money, it is reform or bust. can you

explain what that actually means in practice? politics like to use that word reform a lot but it's sometimes hard to understand what it means. the first thing is economic responsibility and stability. anybody who saw what happened to our economy last autumn with the kamikaze mini budget knows the first rule of politics of government has to be responsible economics. so, we will start from that place. and we will start from that place. and we will reform. the responsible economic skits of the foundation, the platform on which to build but we reform as well. we need to reform as well for a number of reasons. first, the failure to reform over the last 13 years that has caused a lot of the problems. secondly, reform means we can move forward at pace, taking advantage of technology and having a better outcome. i've always been a reformer. i run the cps for five years and i knew that we had to reform and when i arrived at the cps i went out to offices,

this was in the first month, and etched on my memory is witnessing a van turn up at one of our offices to take the paperfiles van turn up at one of our offices to take the paper files from my staff to court over the mountains in south wales and i thought this was utterly ridiculous and we need to have a digitalfile. we then ridiculous and we need to have a digital file. we then set about reforming the cps. we need to do that with all our public services. and why do, so that we can actually make the case for the future. fin and why do, so that we can actually make the case for the future. on the roblems make the case for the future. on the problems in — make the case for the future. on the problems in many — make the case for the future. on the problems in many of— make the case for the future. on the problems in many of our— make the case for the future. on the problems in many of our public- problems in many of our public services much deeper than having paper? people who work in the public sector might think reform doesn't fix a roof that might be about to fall in in a hospital. we've seen examples of that here. reform doesn't take asbestos out of classrooms. what does is money, spending money. do you believe that public services in this country need more money if they are going to improve? let more money if they are going to im - rove? more money if they are going to imrove? . ~ more money if they are going to

imrove? ., ,, i. ., , improve? let me take your example, there will always _ improve? let me take your example, there will always be _ improve? let me take your example, there will always be issues _ improve? let me take your example, there will always be issues that i there will always be issues that need to be resolved, i absolutely get that. but if all we ever do, if our horizon and focus is only on the immediate problems, we will never fix the fundamentals. the nhs is a classic example. every year we have an nhs crisis, every year we put a sticking plaster on it injanuary or february, get in the middle of the year and then breathe because less people are using the health service in the summerand people are using the health service in the summer and then we go back into another health crisis. we need to break out of that. the reform we need to make will make a massive difference. you can have bold reforming. difference. you can have bold reforming-— difference. you can have bold reforming. difference. you can have bold reformina. ., w , ., reforming. reform takes time and i don't think anybody _ reforming. reform takes time and i don't think anybody watching i reforming. reform takes time and i don't think anybody watching will i don't think anybody watching will think you should do things the same way forever and ever but reform takes time and right now, in many situations in parts of the public services there are problems that are immediate and real and costly to fix. do you think public services in

this country need more money if they are to improve? aha, this country need more money if they are to improve?— this country need more money if they are to improve? a labour government will alwa s are to improve? a labour government will always invest _ are to improve? a labour government will always invest in _ are to improve? a labour government will always invest in our _ are to improve? a labour government will always invest in our public - will always invest in our public services. ~ ., ., ., services. with a labour government to send services. with a labour government to spend more _ services. with a labour government to spend more money _ services. with a labour government to spend more money on _ services. with a labour government to spend more money on public i to spend more money on public services? , ., ._ , , services? they will always invest in a ublic services? they will always invest in a public services. _ services? they will always invest in a public services. one _ services? they will always invest in a public services. one of _ services? they will always invest in a public services. one of the i services? they will always invest in a public services. one of the big i a public services. one of the big problems of the last 13 years is there hasn't been any long—term thinking. there hasn't been the reform to go with it. take the nhs. the strains on the nhs are very different to the strain 75 years ago so we have to reform and change it so we have to reform and change it so it sticks to the future. if all we do is simply patch up and keep going, then we won't fix the fundamentals. that's why reform is so important. would a labour government spend more money on public services? do you believe, after years of saying austerity has damaged the public

sector, do you believe part of the answer has to be more money? the labour answer has to be more money? tue: labour government answer has to be more money? tte: labour government will answer has to be more money? t'te: labour government will always answer has to be more money? tte: labour government will always want to invest in its public services. that is not an answer to my question. that is not an answer to my question-— that is not an answer to my cuestion. ., , , ., ., ., question. the answer is to grow our econom . question. the answer is to grow our economy- we _ question. the answer is to grow our economy. we have _ question. the answer is to grow our economy. we have now _ question. the answer is to grow our economy. we have now had - question. the answer is to grow our economy. we have now had 13 i question. the answer is to grow our| economy. we have now had 13 years question. the answer is to grow our i economy. we have now had 13 years of this government more or less, in fact 13 years for the last labour government, which grow the economy and had tens of millions of pounds more to spend on our public services. that's what i want to replicate so we have that yield to put into our public services but that has to start with responsible economics and it has to be coupled with reform. there are so many things that need reform. earlier in the discussion, two of the panellists saying housing, well we have got to reform. we have got to be tough enough to deal with planning which is holding back housing. we are prepared to be tough and planning to make sure we get the houses we need. you and planning to make sure we get the houses we need.— houses we need. you raise that examle houses we need. you raise that example and — houses we need. you raise that example and your _ houses we need. you raise that example and your shadow i houses we need. you raise that i example and your shadow chancellor

said last week they wouldn't spend taxpayers' money on building houses and lots of people think that has to be part of the answer. t and lots of people think that has to be part of the answer.— be part of the answer. i talked to lots of house-builders _ be part of the answer. i talked to lots of house-builders and i be part of the answer. i talked to lots of house-builders and asked j lots of house—builders and asked them, what's the problem with house—building? they say it's them, what's the problem with house—building? they say its two things. first, rishi sunak has taken down the targets for housing so house—building is likely to drop to the lowest level since the second world war, and secondly they say it's a planning problem. we can't get through the planning, it is too cumbersome. we have got to fix that and we are determined to carry out that sort of reform. equally on reform, and clean energy by 2030, and you put to me quite rightly the challenge of immediate problems people have to deal with. energy bills would be one of them. but insulating our homes has been something which we knew ten years ago we needed to do. the government stopped all that when david cameron said he wouldn't have any more green clap, and now people are paying more

money for their homes than they would have been if we got on with it. so if all we ever do is the sticking plaster, the short term, then we won't improve our country going forward. bhd then we won't improve our country going forward-— then we won't improve our country going forward. and you have made it clear ou going forward. and you have made it clear you want _ going forward. and you have made it clear you want to _ going forward. and you have made it clear you want to make _ going forward. and you have made it clear you want to make those - clear you want to make those short—term changes. ijust wonder, would you be relaxed about someone calling you a fiscal conservative? i am a responsible labour politician and i want a responsible labour government, so... if someone said keir starmer is very clear you have to grow the economy before you start spending money, that means he's a fiscal conservative, would you have a problem with that? t conservative, would you have a problem with that?— conservative, would you have a problem with that? i want to explain my position — problem with that? i want to explain my position which _ problem with that? i want to explain my position which is... _ problem with that? i want to explain my position which is... it's _ problem with that? i want to explain my position which is... it's an i my position which is... it's an interesting — my position which is... it's an interesting point _ my position which is... it's an interesting point because i my position which is... it's an interesting point because a i my position which is... it's an | interesting point because a lot my position which is... it's an i interesting point because a lot of people in the labour movement, sharon knight was very vocal over the weekend saying she wants you to be more ambitious. would you be relaxed about someone saying you are

a fiscal conservative? t relaxed about someone saying you are a fiscal conservative?— a fiscal conservative? i don't mind what label people _ a fiscal conservative? i don't mind what label people put _ a fiscal conservative? i don't mind what label people put on - a fiscal conservative? i don't mind what label people put on me i a fiscal conservative? i don't mind what label people put on me but l a fiscal conservative? i don't mind i what label people put on me but my argument is this, what was plain from last year's mini budget was if you lose control of the economy, it is working people who pay. back to your opening shots, the woman who said she had downsized so much she would be in a shoe box next. i spoke to a woman called alice with an 11—month—old baby, they havejust got the house they are going to move to near her parents for help with the baby—sitting. the mortgage rates went up, she can't afford it, she is now stuck. these are human stories, so i start with responsible economics because if you lose control of the economy, it is working people who pay the price. that doesn't mean we can't have a bold and reforming labour government. if we are prepared to take the tough decisions, decisions that haven't been taken for many years. 50 that haven't been taken for many ears, �* , ., that haven't been taken for many ears, �*, ., ., that haven't been taken for many

ears. �*, ., ., ~ ., ., years. so let's have a think about a few specific — years. so let's have a think about a few specific things _ years. so let's have a think about a few specific things the _ years. so let's have a think about a few specific things the labour i few specific things the labour government you want to form would do. if you have more than two children at the moment you don't get benefits, would that change? we children at the moment you don't get benefits, would that change?- benefits, would that change? we are not changing — benefits, would that change? we are not changing that _ benefits, would that change? we are not changing that policy. _ benefits, would that change? we are not changing that policy. housing - not changing that policy. housing benefit has _ not changing that policy. housing benefit has been _ not changing that policy. housing benefit has been frozen - not changing that policy. housing benefit has been frozen since - not changing that policy. housing | benefit has been frozen since 2010 while rent has gone up and up and up. would you unfreeze housing benefit? we up. would you unfreeze housing benefit? ~ ., , ., ., benefit? we would set that out closer to the _ benefit? we would set that out closer to the election _ benefit? we would set that out closer to the election when - benefit? we would set that out closer to the election when we | benefit? we would set that out. closer to the election when we set out cost and spend, i'm not committing that here. what a labour government — committing that here. what a labour government look _ committing that here. what a labour government look at _ committing that here. what a labour government look at the _ committing that here. what a labour government look at the inflation - government look at the inflation target of the bank of england? there have been some suggestions it should go have been some suggestions it should 9° up have been some suggestions it should go up to li%. that have been some suggestions it should go up to 496-— go up to 496. that is something we would address _ go up to 496. that is something we would address closer _ go up to 496. that is something we would address closer to _ go up to 496. that is something we would address closer to the - would address closer to the election. we have two or three fiscal events before the election and we need to wait and see what the state of the economy is. it and we need to wait and see what the state of the economy is.— state of the economy is. it could be on the table — state of the economy is. it could be on the table because _ state of the economy is. it could be on the table because many - state of the economy is. it could be . on the table because many economists are interested in whether the target might have to move. l’m are interested in whether the target might have to move.— are interested in whether the target might have to move. i'm not making oli in might have to move. i'm not making policy in the — might have to move. i'm not making policy in the studio, _ might have to move. i'm not making policy in the studio, you _ might have to move. i'm not making policy in the studio, you will - might have to move. i'm not making policy in the studio, you will have i policy in the studio, you will have to wait until all the fiscal events are there and clear and then we will

be transparent about what we will do. �* , ., ., ., be transparent about what we will do. �* ., ., ., do. and will you have a target buildin: do. and will you have a target building a _ do. and will you have a target building a million _ do. and will you have a target building a million homes- do. and will you have a target building a million homes a - do. and will you have a target. building a million homes a year do. and will you have a target - building a million homes a year to crack housing in this country once and for all? l’m crack housing in this country once and for all?— crack housing in this country once and for all? �* ., ., ., , ., and for all? i'm not going to put an arbitrary figure _ and for all? i'm not going to put an arbitrary figure on _ and for all? i'm not going to put an arbitrary figure on it _ and for all? i'm not going to put an arbitrary figure on it but _ and for all? i'm not going to put an arbitrary figure on it but we - and for all? i'm not going to put an arbitrary figure on it but we need . arbitrary figure on it but we need hundreds of thousands more houses, i don't shy away from that. the inhibitor there is the planning regulations and this government is not going to do anything about that. we will do, we will get housing building going on that will be doubly important, firstly for the aspirations of so many individuals, young people and their families, aspirations of so many individuals, young people and theirfamilies, the security of owning your own home really matters, but also its very good for the economy to build houses so we are determined to do that. when you run for leader, one of your ten pledges was there was no issue more important to our future than the climate emergency. do you still believe that?— believe that? yes, i believe it's robabl believe that? yes, i believe it's probably the — believe that? yes, i believe it's probably the single _ believe that? yes, i believe it's probably the single most - believe that? yes, i believe it's - probably the single most important issue. , ., ,

issue. our viewer elsa reynolds asks, issue. our viewer elsa reynolds asks. have _ issue. our viewer elsa reynolds asks. have you _ issue. our viewer elsa reynolds asks, have you seen _ issue. our viewer elsa reynolds asks, have you seen the - issue. our viewer elsa reynolds - asks, have you seen the temperatures in spain? have you seen what is happening? why are you delaying your green agenda to combat climate change when we haven't any time to lose? we change when we haven't any time to lose? ~ . r, change when we haven't any time to lose? ~ ., ., ., ,, change when we haven't any time to lose? l ., ., ., , , ., ., lose? we have a massive agenda when it comes to climate _ lose? we have a massive agenda when it comes to climate change. _ lose? we have a massive agenda when it comes to climate change. which - it comes to climate change. which ou are it comes to climate change. which you are delaying- _ it comes to climate change. which you are delaying. £28 _ it comes to climate change. which you are delaying. £28 billion - it comes to climate change. which you are delaying. £28 billion of. you are delaying. £28 billion of spending will be delayed. we will deliver cheaper _ spending will be delayed. we will deliver cheaper bills, _ spending will be delayed. we will deliver cheaper bills, security - spending will be delayed. we will deliver cheaper bills, security so | deliver cheaper bills, security so putin can't put his boot on our throat, and the next generation of jobs. throat, and the next generation of 'obs. ~ . , ., throat, and the next generation of 'obs. ~ ., in ., jobs. what you are delaying the sendin: jobs. what you are delaying the spending of _ jobs. what you are delaying the spending of the _ jobs. what you are delaying the spending of the 28 _ jobs. what you are delaying the spending of the 28 billion, - jobs. what you are delaying the spending of the 28 billion, you | jobs. what you are delaying the i spending of the 28 billion, you say that's because of the difficulties in the economy, but if you really believe it is the number one problem, why don't you just say let's get on with it and borrow what we need to borrow? what let's get on with it and borrow what we need to borrow?— let's get on with it and borrow what we need to borrow? what i would say is it's the outcome _ we need to borrow? what i would say is it's the outcome that _ we need to borrow? what i would say is it's the outcome that matters, - is it's the outcome that matters, that clean electricity, clean power by 2030. that is the outcome, that

hasn't been delayed. that is the commitment. as for the funding, it isn't the sole issue in spending the money. we have looked at the amount it costs to borrow, we are now in a different position because of the damage the tories have done to our economy, and we have also talked to those we will partner with about how effectively we can achieve that goal of 2030. at the suggestion the goal itself, which is what matters, can we get to clean power by 2030, that the goal has changed, it hasn't. that is going to be tough. if you look at the inflation reduction act in america, they are racing ahead with this. the eu is now responding. our government is sitting it out, saying we don't much like what's going on elsewhere and that means we won't be on the pitch, we won't win the race for the next generation of jobs. the race for the next generation of 'obs. . , the race for the next generation of 'obs. . . , ., the race for the next generation of 'obs. . , , ., ., the race for the next generation of 'obs. ., ., , jobs. critics in your own party would say _ jobs. critics in your own party would say you _ jobs. critics in your own party would say you had _ jobs. critics in your own party would say you had to - jobs. critics in your own party would say you had to get - jobs. critics in your own party would say you had to get on i jobs. critics in your own party i would say you had to get on with jobs. critics in your own party - would say you had to get on with it. did you say you hated tree huggers?

no, i went to scunthorpe to the steelworks at there, and the workforce there are desperate to go green. what i said to the shadow cabinet and others is they are not tree huggers, they haven't got placards, but they are evangelists for green steel because they know all of their orders of the greens deal, they know theirjobs depend on going green and thejobs deal, they know theirjobs depend on going green and the jobs the next generation in steel, and they said what we need is one, a leader who understands this, we need a plan to go to electric furnaces which we can do in three years. we need some match funding, and then they added to this, they said in scunthorpe they thought they could get there by 2027 but the grid wouldn't then connect them until 2034 so that for me was a practical explanation of the change that an incoming government... i'm determined to get

to grips with the planning, with the green steel. 50 to grips with the planning, with the green steel-— to grips with the planning, with the ureen steel. , ., . . , ., green steel. so you have made your oint that green steel. so you have made your point that you _ green steel. so you have made your point that you don't _ green steel. so you have made your point that you don't hate _ green steel. so you have made your point that you don't hate tree - point that you don't hate tree huggers. point that you don't hate tree huu uers. , point that you don't hate tree huners. , ., ~' .,. point that you don't hate tree huners. , ., ~ .,. . huggers. this workforce imagine the scunthor - e huggers. this workforce imagine the scunthorpe steel _ huggers. this workforce imagine the scunthorpe steel workers, _ huggers. this workforce imagine the scunthorpe steel workers, they - huggers. this workforce imagine the scunthorpe steel workers, they are l scunthorpe steel workers, they are not tree huggers but they are very determined to go green. and not tree huggers but they are very determined to go green.— not tree huggers but they are very determined to go green. and you have said before also _ determined to go green. and you have said before also that _ determined to go green. and you have said before also that you don't - said before also that you don't approve of howjust stop while the protesters behave. ida. approve of howjust stop while the protesters behave.— approve of howjust stop while the i protesters behave._ why protesters behave. no, i don't. why then did someone _ protesters behave. no, i don't. why then did someone in _ protesters behave. no, i don't. why then did someone in your— protesters behave. no, i don't. why then did someone in your team - protesters behave. no, i don't. why| then did someone in your team meet and engage with them? thea;r then did someone in your team meet and engage with them?— and engage with them? they haven't been meeting _ and engage with them? they haven't been meeting and _ and engage with them? they haven't been meeting and engaging. - and engage with them? they haven't been meeting and engaging. there l and engage with them? they haven't i been meeting and engaging. there was some nonsense story in the mail today. it's a complete destruction. what they are doing is disruptive, it is interfering with the lives of many people, it is arrogant. i think the most single effective way to do what we need to do when it comes to the climate emergency is to have a labour government committed to clean power by 2030 and the other

commitments we have made. don’t power by 2030 and the other commitments we have made. don't some --eole have commitments we have made. don't some people have the — commitments we have made. don't some people have the right _ commitments we have made. don't some people have the right to _ commitments we have made. don't some people have the right to protest? - commitments we have made. don't some people have the right to protest? in - people have the right to protest? in the labour party some of your members of your party, some mps think you should be protesting. {iii think you should be protesting. of course there is the right to protest but it doesn't mean you can simply do what you like and say there is a right to protest. it's always been a balanced right, which means you have to bear in mind the impact on other people. and when you stand in a road or block a road when ambulances need to get their... my mum was very ill for most of her life, as you know, and had to travel in ambulances to hospital. many people watching this will have a similar experience. the idea you can arrogantly stand in front of an ambulance and stop it getting to hospital i think is wrong. so there is no absolute right to protest because anyone can say "because i'm protesting you can't touch me". that's never been the case. ., . . ,.,

touch me". that's never been the case. ., ., . , ., ., touch me". that's never been the case. ., . . ., case. you have ditched some of your ledaes case. you have ditched some of your pledges you — case. you have ditched some of your pledges you made — case. you have ditched some of your pledges you made when _ case. you have ditched some of your pledges you made when you - case. you have ditched some of your pledges you made when you are - pledges you made when you are running to be leader. some people in the labour party also feel they have been ditched. our viewer alec says, i'm not sure howl been ditched. our viewer alec says, i'm not sure how i will vote in the next election, it seems to me keir starmer is playing a political game which means abandoning some of the left—wing principles he held previously. what do you say to alex and people in the labour party like jamie driscoll, the mayor, i mean you are ditching people as well as policies, aren't you? i you are ditching people as well as policies, aren't you?— policies, aren't you? i re'ect that. i made a central h policies, aren't you? i re'ect that. i made a central policy _ policies, aren't you? i reject that. i made a central policy to - policies, aren't you? i reject that. i made a central policy to the - i made a central policy to the labour party when i stood to be leader which is, if you elect me in as leader of our party, i will change our party and i will make sure that we can head into the next election and we can win it. but we are electorally credible. that was my central promise, and every day i have been leader since then, i have been changing the labour party to put us into a position where we are

now credible contenders for the next election. ii now credible contenders for the next election. . , , now credible contenders for the next election. . ' , . , election. if that ruffles feathers, is it worth _ election. if that ruffles feathers, is it worth it _ election. if that ruffles feathers, is it worth it for _ election. if that ruffles feathers, is it worth it for you _ election. if that ruffles feathers, is it worth it for you in _ election. if that ruffles feathers, is it worth it for you in order - election. if that ruffles feathers, is it worth it for you in order to l is it worth it for you in order to have a chance to govern? {lit is it worth it for you in order to have a chance to govern? of course. the labour — have a chance to govern? of course. the labour party _ have a chance to govern? of course. the labour party was _ have a chance to govern? of course. the labour party was created - have a chance to govern? of course. the labour party was created to - have a chance to govern? of course. j the labour party was created to give working people notjust working people not just representation working people notjust representation in parliament but a government in parliament that can government in parliament that can govern on their behalf and change the lives of millions of people for the lives of millions of people for the better. the lives of millions of people for the better-— the better. and you have made significant _ the better. and you have made significant process. _ the better. and you have made significant process. when - the better. and you have made significant process. when you i the better. and you have made - significant process. when you became leader, many people believed the idf labour would be on course to win the election. , , ., ., ~' labour would be on course to win the election. , , ., ., ~ _ . election. they shook me by the hand and said good _ election. they shook me by the hand and said good luck _ election. they shook me by the hand and said good luck but _ election. they shook me by the hand and said good luck but you _ election. they shook me by the hand and said good luck but you will- and said good luck but you will never do it in five years. where are ou now never do it in five years. where are you now on — never do it in five years. where are you now on this _ never do it in five years. where are you now on this journey, _ never do it in five years. where are you now on this journey, and - never do it in five years. where are you now on this journey, and what| you now on this journey, and what might go wrong? you have been ahead for a long time, a solid and sustained lead. i for a long time, a solid and sustained lead.— for a long time, a solid and sustained lead. . . , , sustained lead. i have always seen this task in — sustained lead. i have always seen this task in sequential _ sustained lead. i have always seen this task in sequential steps. - sustained lead. i have always seen this task in sequential steps. the i this task in sequential steps. the first thing we need to do was change the labour party. if you lose as badly as we did in 2019 and you don't look at the electorate and say, what on earth were you doing? you look at your party and say that

you need to change. i had lots of people saying go faster, be bolder. people saying go faster, be holder. the second thing is we had to expose the government is not fit to govern, and we were ably assisted by the government itself. the next stage is if not the government, then why you? what is the case for change you are put into the country? and that is the mission i have set out since the beginning of the year, setting out the changes. at the moment i would say we are confident but not complacent and the biggest danger is complacency. whatever the polls say, i remind myself every day and i remind the shadow cabinet that to get from where we landed in 2019 to a one seat labour majority at the next election would be a bigger swing than tony blair got in 1997. that keeps us rooted which is why i say fight like you are 5% behind, no complacency. on the contrary, we

have all now got to be exceptional. thank you for coming in just before your summer break. what did you think of what keir starmer had to say? as ever you can e—mail me and we will share some of your views towards the end of the show or use the hashtag on social media if you are that way inclined. what did you make of that? i am head and hands. what did you make of that? i am head and hands- 0n — what did you make of that? i am head and hands. on just _ what did you make of that? i am head and hands. on just stop _ what did you make of that? i am head and hands. on just stop oil, - what did you make of that? i am head and hands. on just stop oil, keir - and hands. onjust stop oil, keir starmer is talking about how he totally rejects blah blah blah, but they voted against, time and time again in the house of commons, when we were trying to create new laws to enable the police to stop those people gluing themselves to the roads so his mum and others can get to hospital. it's saying one thing, doing another. it's this flip—flop thing. look at the green energy. what he's actually proposing is no

new oil and gas licences. what that does, unless he's putting all his bets in one area, you losejobs by doing that, you also create mass and energy and security during the transition, and you leave yourself vulnerable to gas imports from russia. where does he want us to get them from? and what he is not acknowledging is that it's the conservative government since 2010 that have led to us being half the world's offshore deployed wind. 99% of solar has come since... the government's _ of solar has come since... the government's own _ of solar has come since... the government's own climate change committee has said the uk has fallen behind some of the progress. it’s behind some of the progress. it's been behind some of the progress. it�*s been brilliant progress. we are ahead of the g20 with the exception of denmark in decarbonisation. what of denmark in decarbonisation. what did ou of denmark in decarbonisation. what did you make — of denmark in decarbonisation. what did you make of— of denmark in decarbonisation. what did you make of it? _ of denmark in decarbonisation. what did you make of it? interesting. - of denmark in decarbonisation. what did you make of it? interesting. i - did you make of it? interesting. i think your _ did you make of it? interesting. i think your first _ did you make of it? interesting. i think your first question, - did you make of it? interesting. i think your first question, you - did you make of it? interesting. i i think your first question, you asked him if— think your first question, you asked him if he _ think your first question, you asked him if he was going to be radical in government and answered yes but then

didn't connect much, did he? i also uncritical— didn't connect much, did he? i also uncritical for— didn't connect much, did he? i also uncritical for different reasons to andrea. — uncritical for different reasons to andrea. i— uncritical for different reasons to andrea, i suspect. the terms of the debate _ andrea, i suspect. the terms of the debate that— andrea, i suspect. the terms of the debate that gets framed around labour— debate that gets framed around labour is — debate that gets framed around labour is how you're going to pay for it _ labour is how you're going to pay for it i_ labour is how you're going to pay for it. i reject the terms of that debate — for it. i reject the terms of that debate pretty strongly because the conservative party is able to shake its magic _ conservative party is able to shake its magic money tree say 7 billion. none _ its magic money tree say 7 billion. none they— its magic money tree say 7 billion. none they can cut inheritance tax. by none they can cut inheritance tax. by historical standards it is cheaper— by historical standards it is cheaper to borrow money. the state the country — cheaper to borrow money. the state the country is in at the moment. andrea. — the country is in at the moment. andrea. i— the country is in at the moment. andrea, i listened to you, i would like it— andrea, i listened to you, i would like it if_ andrea, i listened to you, i would like it if you — andrea, i listened to you, i would like it if you listened to me as well — like it if you listened to me as well its— like it if you listened to me as well. it's cheap to borrow money. we have the _ well. it's cheap to borrow money. we have the biggest squeeze on living standards since the napoleonic wars. if you _ standards since the napoleonic wars. if you invest money in society, the social— if you invest money in society, the social good — if you invest money in society, the social good that will come out of it is extraordinary. we have so much to gain _ is extraordinary. we have so much to gain the _ is extraordinary. we have so much to gain. the calculation has to be the financial— gain. the calculation has to be the financial cost and what do we gain. if you _ financial cost and what do we gain. if you invest — financial cost and what do we gain. if you invest in building houses, you improve crime outcomes, health outcomes _ you improve crime outcomes, health outcomes. the benefit to society to make _

outcomes. the benefit to society to make these changes. keir outcomes. the benefit to society to make these changes.— outcomes. the benefit to society to make these changes. keir starmer is clearl not make these changes. keir starmer is clearly not keen _ make these changes. keir starmer is clearly not keen to _ make these changes. keir starmer is clearly not keen to spend _ make these changes. keir starmer is clearly not keen to spend taxpayers'| clearly not keen to spend taxpayers' money on building houses. sharon, as an economist, is it possible right now, is it smart to borrow money to do the kinds of things keir starmer might want to do but at the moment thinks it's not like to spend money on? i thinks it's not like to spend money on? ~' , ., thinks it's not like to spend money on? ~' on? i think the space to spend significant _ on? i think the space to spend significant investment - on? i think the space to spend significant investment has - on? i think the space to spend significant investment has got| significant investment has got tighten — significant investment has got tighter. interest— significant investment has got tighter. interest rates- significant investment has got tighter. interest rates are - significant investment has got| tighter. interest rates are now significant investment has got. tighter. interest rates are now up to 6%, _ tighter. interest rates are now up to 6%, they— tighter. interest rates are now up to 6%. they were _ tighter. interest rates are now up to 6%, they were 2% _ tighter. interest rates are now up to 6%, they were 2% even - tighter. interest rates are now up to 6%, they were 2% even a - tighter. interest rates are now up to 6%, they were 2% even a yearl tighter. interest rates are now up - to 6%, they were 2% even a year ago. the space — to 6%, they were 2% even a year ago. the space is— to 6%, they were 2% even a year ago. the space is tighter. _ to 6%, they were 2% even a year ago. the space is tighter. at— to 6%, they were 2% even a year ago. the space is tighter. at the _ to 6%, they were 2% even a year ago. the space is tighter. at the same - the space is tighter. at the same time _ the space is tighter. at the same time that— the space is tighter. at the same time that a — the space is tighter. at the same time that a really— the space is tighter. at the same time that a really big _ the space is tighter. at the same time that a really big actions - the space is tighter. at the same time that a really big actions that any government _ time that a really big actions that any government can _ time that a really big actions that any government can take. - time that a really big actions that any government can take. one i time that a really big actions that any government can take. one of time that a really big actions that - any government can take. one of the things— any government can take. one of the things i_ any government can take. one of the things i was— any government can take. one of the things i was surprised _ any government can take. one of the things i was surprised not _ any government can take. one of the things i was surprised not to - any government can take. one of the things i was surprised not to hear- things i was surprised not to hear more _ things i was surprised not to hear more about— things i was surprised not to hear more about is— things i was surprised not to hear more about is crime. _ things i was surprised not to hear more about is crime. crime - things i was surprised not to hearl more about is crime. crime linked things i was surprised not to hear. more about is crime. crime linked to the cost _ more about is crime. crime linked to the cost of— more about is crime. crime linked to the cost of living. _ more about is crime. crime linked to the cost of living. the _ more about is crime. crime linked to the cost of living. the john— more about is crime. crime linked to the cost of living. the john lewis - the cost of living. the john lewis partnership. _ the cost of living. the john lewis partnership. we _ the cost of living. the john lewis partnership, we are _ the cost of living. the john lewis partnership, we are a _ the cost of living. the john lewis partnership, we are a big - the cost of living. the john lewisi partnership, we are a big retailer, 74.000 _ partnership, we are a big retailer, 74,000 employees. _ partnership, we are a big retailer, 74,000 employees. one - partnership, we are a big retailer, 74,000 employees. one of- partnership, we are a big retailer, 74,000 employees. one of the i partnership, we are a big retailer, | 74,000 employees. one of the big issues _ 74,000 employees. one of the big issues is _ 74,000 employees. one of the big issues is partner— 74,000 employees. one of the big issues is partner safety. _ issues is partner safety. shoplifting _ issues is partner safety. shoplifting has - issues is partner safety. shoplifting has gone - issues is partner safety. shoplifting has gone upl issues is partner safety. - shoplifting has gone up 26%. but issues is partner safety. _ shoplifting has gone up 26%. but in the last— shoplifting has gone up 26%. but in the last year~ — shoplifting has gone up 26%. but in the last year. it's _ shoplifting has gone up 26%. but in the last year. it's a _ shoplifting has gone up 26%. but in the last year. it's a crisis _ shoplifting has gone up 26%. but in the last year. it's a crisis hiding - the last year. it's a crisis hiding in plain—

the last year. it's a crisis hiding in plain sight _ the last year. it's a crisis hiding in plain sight. so, _ the last year. it's a crisis hiding in plain sight. so, absolutely. in plain sight. so, absolutely public— in plain sight. so, absolutely public service _ in plain sight. so, absolutely public service reform - in plain sight. so, absolutely public service reform but - in plain sight. so, absolutely. public service reform but crime, safety. — public service reform but crime, safety, particularly _ public service reform but crime, safety, particularly as _ public service reform but crime, safety, particularly as gangs - public service reform but crime, | safety, particularly as gangs and shoplifters — safety, particularly as gangs and shoplifters have _ safety, particularly as gangs and shoplifters have become - safety, particularly as gangs and shoplifters have become much. safety, particularly as gangs and - shoplifters have become much bolder, shoplifters have become much holder, to be frank— shoplifters have become much holder, to be frankand— shoplifters have become much holder, to be frank and given _ shoplifters have become much holder, to be frank and given some _ shoplifters have become much holder, to be frank and given some of- shoplifters have become much holder, to be frank and given some of the - to be frank and given some of the cost of— to be frank and given some of the cost of living _ to be frank and given some of the cost of living pressures. - to be frank and given some of the cost of living pressures. like - to be frank and given some of the cost of living pressures. like youl cost of living pressures. like you think— cost of living pressures. like you think that's — cost of living pressures. like you think that's happening _ cost of living pressures. like you think that's happening because l think that's happening because people — think that's happening because people are _ think that's happening because people are finding _ think that's happening because people are finding it _ think that's happening because people are finding it harder- think that's happening because people are finding it harder tol think that's happening because - people are finding it harder to make ends meet? — people are finding it harder to make ends meet? this— people are finding it harder to make ends meet? , , people are finding it harder to make ends meet?— ends meet? this is the point i'm talkin: ends meet? this is the point i'm talking about. _ ends meet? this is the point i'm talking about. i'm _ ends meet? this is the point i'm talking about. i'm sure - ends meet? this is the point i'm talking about. i'm sure we - ends meet? this is the point i'm talking about. i'm sure we can . ends meet? this is the point i'm| talking about. i'm sure we can all look— talking about. i'm sure we can all look at _ talking about. i'm sure we can all look at society around us and see that it _ look at society around us and see that it is — look at society around us and see that it is decaying. shoplifting is increasing, crime is through the root _ increasing, crime is through the root you — increasing, crime is through the roof. you can talk about serious sexual— roof. you can talk about serious sexual offences, the rape conviction rate is— sexual offences, the rape conviction rate is appalling. things aren't working — rate is appalling. things aren't working and we can either safe interest— working and we can either safe interest rates are high maybe we can't _ interest rates are high maybe we can't borrow enough, or we can have the conviction— can't borrow enough, or we can have the conviction to try and improve society— the conviction to try and improve society for— the conviction to try and improve society for the better. do you want to be _ society for the better. do you want to be a _ society for the better. do you want to be a political leader that leads or do— to be a political leader that leads or do you — to be a political leader that leads or do you want to triangulate and say can't — or do you want to triangulate and say can't really borrow? do or do you want to triangulate and say can't really borrow?— say can't really borrow? do you think the demographic - say can't really borrow? do you think the demographic you - say can't really borrow? do you - think the demographic you understand best looks at keir starmer and thinks, there is a leader? ila. thinks, there is a leader? no. sharon, thinks, there is a leader? no.

sharon. l— thinks, there is a leader? no. sharon, i want _ thinks, there is a leader? no. sharon, i want to _ thinks, there is a leader? no. sharon, i want to ask - thinks, there is a leader? no. sharon, i want to ask you about john sharon, i want to ask you aboutjohn lewis because we've used your expertise as an economist but your day job expertise as an economist but your dayjob is boss ofjohn lewis and it's been a bumper yearfor them. earlier in the year there was a suggestion you might change the structure, the famous partnership model and andy street said basically that would be a disaster. do you regret floating the idea of changing things there? 50. regret floating the idea of changing things there?— things there? so, there was never any question _ things there? so, there was never any question that _ things there? so, there was never any question that we _ things there? so, there was never any question that we were - things there? so, there was never any question that we were going i things there? so, there was never| any question that we were going to change _ any question that we were going to change the — any question that we were going to change the partnership _ any question that we were going to change the partnership model. - any question that we were going to change the partnership model. i. any question that we were going to. change the partnership model. i was 74.000 _ change the partnership model. i was 74.000 employees _ change the partnership model. i was 74,000 employees are _ change the partnership model. i was 74,000 employees are members . change the partnership model. i was 74,000 employees are members ofl change the partnership model. i was. 74,000 employees are members of the business _ 74,000 employees are members of the business and _ 74,000 employees are members of the business and that's _ 74,000 employees are members of the business and that's what _ 74,000 employees are members of the business and that's what makes - 74,000 employees are members of the business and that's what makes us - business and that's what makes us special, _ business and that's what makes us special, it's— business and that's what makes us special, it's the _ business and that's what makes us special, it's the reason _ business and that's what makes us special, it's the reason why - special, it's the reason why shoppers— special, it's the reason why shoppers love _ special, it's the reason why shoppers love shopping - special, it's the reason why shoppers love shopping ati special, it's the reason why - shoppers love shopping at waitrose and john— shoppers love shopping at waitrose and john lewis _ shoppers love shopping at waitrose and john lewis. the _ shoppers love shopping at waitrose and john lewis. the issue - shoppers love shopping at waitrose and john lewis. the issue for- shoppers love shopping at waitrose and john lewis. the issue for us - shoppers love shopping at waitrose and john lewis. the issue for us isi and john lewis. the issue for us is ten years— and john lewis. the issue for us is ten years ago— and john lewis. the issue for us is ten years ago in— and john lewis. the issue for us is ten years ago in the _ and john lewis. the issue for us is ten years ago in the 2000s, - and john lewis. the issue for us is ten years ago in the 2000s, the l ten years ago in the 2000s, the business — ten years ago in the 2000s, the business got _ ten years ago in the 2000s, the business got much _ ten years ago in the 2000s, the business got much bigger. - ten years ago in the 2000s, the business got much bigger. we l ten years ago in the 2000s, the - business got much bigger. we doubled the number— business got much bigger. we doubled the number of— business got much bigger. we doubled the number of stores, _ business got much bigger. we doubled the number of stores, we _ business got much bigger. we doubled the number of stores, we tripled - business got much bigger. we doubled the number of stores, we tripled the l the number of stores, we tripled the number— the number of stores, we tripled the number of— the number of stores, we tripled the number of waitrose stores. - the number of stores, we tripled the number of waitrose stores. we - the number of stores, we tripled the number of waitrose stores. we are i the number of stores, we tripled the j number of waitrose stores. we are a much _ number of waitrose stores. we are a much bigger— number of waitrose stores. we are a much bigger business— number of waitrose stores. we are a much bigger business without - number of waitrose stores. we are a much bigger business without access to e>

to external finance. the question- to external finance. the question for us _ to external finance. the question for us now— to external finance. the question for us now is— to external finance. the question for us now is how— to external finance. the question for us now is how do _ to external finance. the question for us now is how do we - to external finance. the question for us now is how do we fund - to external finance. the question for us now is how do we fund the j for us now is how do we fund the growth _ for us now is how do we fund the growth that— for us now is how do we fund the growth that we _ for us now is how do we fund the growth that we know _ for us now is how do we fund the growth that we know is - for us now is how do we fund the growth that we know is there, i growth that we know is there, whether— growth that we know is there, whether that's _ growth that we know is there, whether that's doing - growth that we know is there, whether that's doing it - growth that we know is there, whether that's doing it in - growth that we know is there, whether that's doing it in a i whether that's doing it in a creative _ whether that's doing it in a creative way _ whether that's doing it in a creative way that _ whether that's doing it in a creative way that keeps - whether that's doing it in a - creative way that keeps partnership a partnership — creative way that keeps partnership a partnership. butt— creative way that keeps partnership a partnership-— a partnership. but can you give --eole a a partnership. but can you give people a 10096 _ a partnership. but can you give people a 10096 guarantee - a partnership. but can you give people a 10096 guarantee that| a partnership. but can you give i people a 10096 guarantee that the people a 100% guarantee that the business will be solely owned by employees always? it sounds like that's not what you're saying, they're still the possibility of cash coming in from elsewhere. i can rive a cash coming in from elsewhere. i can give a 10096 — cash coming in from elsewhere. i can give a 10096 guarantee _ cash coming in from elsewhere. i can give a 100% guarantee that the partnership— give a 100% guarantee that the partnership will— give a 100% guarantee that the partnership will always - give a 100% guarantee that the partnership will always be - give a 100% guarantee that the partnership will always be a - partnership will always be a partnership _ partnership will always be a partnership. we _ partnership will always be a partnership. we have - partnership will always be a l partnership. we have always partnership will always be a - partnership. we have always found creative _ partnership. we have always found creative ways — partnership. we have always found creative ways while _ partnership. we have always found creative ways while staying - partnership. we have always found creative ways while staying a - creative ways while staying a membership _ creative ways while staying a membership organisation - creative ways while staying a membership organisation to| creative ways while staying a - membership organisation to bring e>

homes. that has been funded by a great investment fund. no - homes. that has been funded by a great investment fund. no ifs, - homes. that has been funded by a great investment fund. no ifs, nol great investment fund. no ifs, no buts, _ great investment fund. no ifs, no buts. guarantee _ great investment fund. no ifs, no buts, guarantee that _ great investment fund. no ifs, no buts, guarantee that the - great investment fund. no ifs, no. buts, guarantee that the partnership will remain— buts, guarantee that the partnership will remain a — buts, guarantee that the partnership will remain a partnership. _ buts, guarantee that the partnership will remain a partnership. but- buts, guarantee that the partnership will remain a partnership.— will remain a partnership. but you miaht still will remain a partnership. but you might still have _ will remain a partnership. but you might still have money _ will remain a partnership. but you might still have money coming . will remain a partnership. but you might still have money coming in | might still have money coming in from outside. i want to show our view are some pictures of possibly the most politejust stop oil protest. there was a protest injohn lewis. what did you think of when you saw that? were you there? i wasn't there. we spoke to the amazing — wasn't there. we spoke to the amazing branch _ wasn't there. we spoke to the amazing branch manager- wasn't there. we spoke to the amazing branch manager in. wasn't there. we spoke to the - amazing branch manager in oxford street _ amazing branch manager in oxford street it _ amazing branch manager in oxford street it was _ amazing branch manager in oxford street it was a _ amazing branch manager in oxford street. it was a very— amazing branch manager in oxford street. it was a very polite - street. it was a very polite protest. _ street. it was a very polite protest. we _ street. it was a very polite protest, we had _ street. it was a very polite protest, we had about- street. it was a very polite protest, we had about 12 l street. it was a very polite - protest, we had about 12 protesters and a _ protest, we had about 12 protesters and a megaphone _ protest, we had about 12 protesters and a megaphone and _ protest, we had about 12 protesters and a megaphone and i— protest, we had about 12 protesters and a megaphone and i think- protest, we had about 12 protesters and a megaphone and i think at - protest, we had about 12 protesters l and a megaphone and i think at some stage _ and a megaphone and i think at some stage one _ and a megaphone and i think at some stage one of— and a megaphone and i think at some stage one of the _ and a megaphone and i think at some stage one of the partners _ and a megaphone and i think at some stage one of the partners or- stage one of the partners or customers— stage one of the partners or customers asked _ stage one of the partners or customers asked a - stage one of the partners or| customers asked a protester stage one of the partners or- customers asked a protester with the megaphone _ customers asked a protester with the megaphone to — customers asked a protester with the megaphone to stop _ customers asked a protester with the megaphone to stop blasting - customers asked a protester with the megaphone to stop blasting and - customers asked a protester with the megaphone to stop blasting and theyj megaphone to stop blasting and they stopped _ megaphone to stop blasting and they stopped i_ megaphone to stop blasting and they stopped. i think— megaphone to stop blasting and they stopped. i think most _ megaphone to stop blasting and they stopped. i think most customers - stopped. i think most customers continued — stopped. i think most customers continued in— stopped. i think most customers continued in quite _ stopped. i think most customers continued in quite a _ stopped. i think most customers continued in quite a blase... - stopped. i think most customers continued in quite a blase... it. stopped. i think most customers . continued in quite a blase... it was very british — continued in quite a blase. .. it was very lsritish-— very british. those aren't radical --eole very british. those aren't radical people disrupting, _ very british. those aren't radical people disrupting, they - very british. those aren't radical people disrupting, they are - very british. those aren't radical - people disrupting, they are standing quietly and john lewis.— quietly and john lewis. absolutely and i firmly _ quietly and john lewis. absolutely and i firmly believe _ quietly and john lewis. absolutely

and i firmly believe in _ quietly and john lewis. absolutely and i firmly believe in the - quietly and john lewis. absolutely and i firmly believe in the right. quietly and john lewis. absolutely and i firmly believe in the right to| and ifirmly believe in the right to protest but actually, what we've seenin protest but actually, what we've seen in recent years, as oli says, the age of courtesy and allowing other people to get on with their lives, it goes back to the fact of do you have the right to protest over and above someone else's right to go to work, to get to hospital, to go to work, to get to hospital, to go to work, to get to hospital, to go about their life? in my view the answer is no. but are quite protest like that, maybe. thea;r protest like that, maybe. they weren't even _ protest like that, maybe. they weren't even blocking - protest like that, maybe. they weren't even blocking people, just standing there very politely. we've just heard from someone who wants to be prime minister, this time last year, someone else fancied thatjob too. that was kemi badenoch, favourite among many tory party members — but she ended up as trade secretary and minister for equalities for rishi sunak — not so bad for someone who only became an mp in 2017. she joins us now from new zealand where she'sjust signed off our membership of one of the world's biggest trading blocs — the comprehensive and progressive agreement

for trans—pacific partnership — if you can get all of that out. thank you forjoining us. it's great to have you on the programme. if people are watching this morning, why should they care about the deal you've just done? thea;r why should they care about the deal you've just done?— you've 'ust done? they should care about you've just done? they should care about the deal. _ you've just done? they should care about the deal. it's _ you've just done? they should care about the deal. it's quite _ you've just done? they should care about the deal. it's quite a - about the deal. it's quite a momentous occasion and we are all here so proud and excited. it's been five years since the idea to join cprp, five years since the idea to join cptpp, as we call it, first started and now we had signed the agreement. this is the fastest growing region, asia pacific. it's going to be responsible for at least 50% of global growth that we are expecting between now and 2035 and countries have been queueing up tojoin between now and 2035 and countries have been queueing up to join this trading block. we've got there first, we've got a seat at the table and it is actually quite a momentous

thing for the uk. biggest radio we've signed since we left the eu and there's everything to play for —— the biggest trade deal we signed. the government assessment says it will only add 0.8% to gdp, will people feel any difference as a result of this?— result of this? they will if they use it. result of this? they will if they use it- and _ result of this? they will if they use it. and the _ result of this? they will if they use it. and the assessment. result of this? they will if they j use it. and the assessment we result of this? they will if they - use it. and the assessment we made, it was a scoping assessment, it's a very broadbrush static modelling. it doesn't look at so many things, it's not specifically about trade deals, we use it for all sorts of things. it doesn't look at future growth and it also doesn't look at how we utilise the agreement. this is why it's so important that i explain to people how significant it is. if we don't use it it will become a self fulfilling prophecy. this is a forecast that's only as good as the way that we utilise it and one of the things that we need to remember is that there are 11 countries in their who are making up about 500

million people. that is so much potential, that's where the middle classes coming from. you look at the countries that are up, the us was going tojoin until they had a change of administration, they are doing free trade agreements any more but we are. this is global britain, the world is our oyster and were not isolated, we are not insular.- isolated, we are not insular. should china be to — isolated, we are not insular. should china be to join? _ isolated, we are not insular. should china be to join? well, _ isolated, we are not insular. should china be to join? well, this - isolated, we are not insular. should china be to join? well, this is - isolated, we are not insular. should china be to join? well, this is one l china be to 'oin? well, this is one ofthe china be to join? well, this is one of the things _ china be to join? well, this is one of the things we've _ china be to join? well, this is one of the things we've been - china be to join? well, this is one i of the things we've been discussing. we finally had our seat at the table, one of the 12 countries talking about the principles for accession and what the block is doing is making sure that it's the countries that meet the high standards of the cptpp that will be allowed to join. that's something that needs to be assessed. as a country meet the high standards, is it ready, does it keep its commitment, its trading commitments, whether at the wto or elsewhere?

sorry, just a moment. one of the things that's really important, when you joined the club, the very first thing you don't do is tell the other club members who should be or shouldn't be allowed to join. it's how we are going to make use of it that's going to be significant and yes, being the first at the table means we will have an influence but i'm not going to get into any specific country's merit, it's for all of us to do as a consensus team. it's worth our viewers knowing that some prominent conservatives like liz truss think you should make clear china would not be allowed to join in the future but you're not going to get into that this morning. this is the biggest deal we signed since brexit but there is no sign of that american trade deal that was promised. the trade deal with india seems to be stalled. that brexit promise, the buccaneering britain massively benefiting from trading around the world, thatjust has not come to pass, has it? around the world, that 'ust has not

come to pass, has it?_ come to pass, has it? that's absolutely — come to pass, has it? that's absolutely not _ come to pass, has it? that's absolutely not true. - come to pass, has it? that's absolutely not true. first, i come to pass, has it? that's - absolutely not true. first, remember backin absolutely not true. first, remember back in 2018-2019 absolutely not true. first, remember back in 2018—2019 people saying we wouldn't even be able to get the existing agreements we had in the eu, we got them. people laughed when we said we were going to join cptpp. the westminster bubble were laughing and not believing this could happen. we've done it. yes, you're right that we haven't had a free trade agreement with the us but that's been because there's been a change of administration in the us and they are not signing free trade agreements with anyone. they are not joining cptpp. we can't. other countries to do things that are different, they are sovereign countries just as we are. but different, they are sovereign countriesjust as we are. countries 'ust as we are. but that was a countriesjust as we are. but that was a promise — countriesjust as we are. but that was a promise made _ countriesjust as we are. but that was a promise made to _ countriesjust as we are. but that was a promise made to british i was a promise made to british voters. . . . . , . was a promise made to british voters. . . . . . voters. laura, that was an agreement that was had _ voters. laura, that was an agreement that was had with _ voters. laura, that was an agreement that was had with the _ voters. laura, that was an agreement that was had with the previous - that was had with the previous president, you cannot force countries tojoin president, you cannot force countries to join free trade agreements. 50 countries to 'oin free trade agreements_ countries to join free trade aureements. . , ., , agreements. so it was a promise you are never going _ agreements. so it was a promise you are never going to — agreements. so it was a promise you are never going to be _ agreements. so it was a promise you are never going to be able _ agreements. so it was a promise you are never going to be able to - agreements. so it was a promise you are never going to be able to keep? i are never going to be able to keep? please stop interrupting me, laura. user trade talks with india had stalled, that isn't true, the indian

trade minister gave an interview last week saying how well things were going. he was in the uk last week, these things take time. because if we get them wrong, you would accuse me of signing deals that were not worth the paper they were written on so i'm making the effort to get things right. it doesn't mean things have stalled. as for the us, we may not have an fta but we have other things going on. economic security arrangements, look at what the pm did with the atlantic declaration, the trade dialogues we are having, a lot of the things we are having, a lot of the things we are doing on security with five eyes around the world, there are so much you can do outside of an fta. we are making sure we continue to build a closer and stronger relationship with those countries. so that i think is what people can see now that we've left the eu. i think it's impossible to ignore the significance of cptpp, which is a great benefit of leaving the eu given that we still have an eu free trading agreement. that given that we still have an eu free trading agreement.— trading agreement. that is an important _ trading agreement. that is an important deal _ trading agreement. that is an important deal and _ trading agreement. that is an important deal and we - trading agreement. that is an important deal and we are - trading agreement. that is an - important deal and we are dealing with a delay on the line so we should just explain to our viewers

it's making communication slightly difficult. people can also see, the minister, that trade as a percentage of gdp has fallen at double the rate of gdp has fallen at double the rate of the other g7 countries. cptpp may be an important new deal but you have not been able to keep some of the promises that were made to the public, that american deal, that indian deal, those promises haven't been kept. we are still in the middle of the india free trade agreement. the british public _ india free trade agreement. tue: british public want a deal india free trade agreement. tue british public want a deal that will be of benefit to the uk. we won't just sign any free trade agreement, we will make sure it is something of benefit to our country. and yes, it was expected we would sign an fta with the us but that was with a different president. you cannot force a country to do something if its administration changes. let’s its administration changes. let's ask about something _ its administration changes. let's ask about something this - its administration changes. let's ask about something this government does have the power to do. many businesses are finding it harder to trade in this economic climate. the government is due to impose extra

charges, may be more than £40 on goods coming in from the eu from october. might you consider delaying that? or is it definitely going to happen? that? or is it definitely going to ha--en? , that? or is it definitely going to ha en? , , that? or is it definitely going to ha en? . . that? or is it definitely going to hauen? , , . happen? this is something we are lookin: at happen? this is something we are looking at in _ happen? this is something we are looking at in the _ happen? this is something we are looking at in the round. _ happen? this is something we are looking at in the round. we - happen? this is something we are looking at in the round. we need i happen? this is something we are i looking at in the round. we need to make sure we have a level playing field for our businesses, for our exporters, making sure they are not being undercut by other countries. we recognise this as being very difficult and we also recognise there is high inflation at the moment, there is a cost of living crisis, so we are not going to do anything to make things harderfor people. that is the guarantee. within the specifics of what's happening at the border, it's not something i can go into because we haven't finalised the arrangements but we are aware of concerns and we are taking them into account. what i want your viewers to know is that the government is making sure we are trying to lift the burdens of people and not put more on, and that means

making sure we are not undercutting our own producers from imports but also looking at prices for goods across the board. you also looking at prices for goods across the board.— also looking at prices for goods across the board. you are also the minister for _ across the board. you are also the minister for equalities _ across the board. you are also the minister for equalities and - across the board. you are also the minister for equalities and it's - minister for equalities and it's expected this week after some time that we will see the guidance for schools on how they should best support transit pupils, young people identifying as strands. —— as trans. we are producing guidance for schools in how to deal with children who are experiencing gender distress. i can't go into specifics in what will be in the guidance but your viewers can be reassured that we are doing everything we can to bring clarity. there is quite a lot of confusion about what the law says, and it is important that parents are aware of what is going on with their children and what's happening to them at school, so what we are doing is making sure we have

robust guidance that will be able to stand up to scrutiny, and that will be coming shortly. i5 stand up to scrutiny, and that will be coming shortly. is it stand up to scrutiny, and that will be coming shortly.— be coming shortly. is it possible thouah be coming shortly. is it possible though that _ be coming shortly. is it possible though that we _ be coming shortly. is it possible though that we have _ be coming shortly. is it possible though that we have a _ be coming shortly. is it possible though that we have a situation| though that we have a situation where trans pupils might feel teachers are outing them to their parents even against their wishes? i think we need to make sure we don't speculate too much on what's going to be in the guidance. it is best read in totality and within context. the fact is this is not a trivial thing, this is very different from sexual orientation, and what is right is that parents know what's going on with their children at school. it is not for teachers to parent, it is for parents to parent, and we are giving guidance to make sure everyone is getting the balance right. a, sure everyone is getting the balance riuht. : sure everyone is getting the balance riuht,: , , sure everyone is getting the balance riuht. , , , right. a report yesterday suggested the conservatives _ right. a report yesterday suggested the conservatives might _ right. a report yesterday suggested the conservatives might look - right. a report yesterday suggested the conservatives might look at - the conservatives might look at scrapping inheritance tax, would support that? i scrapping inheritance tax, would support that?— support that? i think this is the usual tax speculation. - support that? i think this is the usual tax speculation. there i support that? i think this is the |

usual tax speculation. there are always people who have suggestions about what we may do on taxes. the fact is it is the chancellor who makes those decisions, he will make a fiscal statement and i cannot comment on inheritance tax. what we are focusing on is bringing down inflation, that is the thing having the most impact on people's disposable income.- the most impact on people's disposable income. lastly we were talkin: to disposable income. lastly we were talking to keir— disposable income. lastly we were talking to keir starmer _ disposable income. lastly we were talking to keir starmer earlier i talking to keir starmer earlier about why he wants to be prime minister, and this time last year you wanted to be prime minister and you wanted to be prime minister and you are popular among conservative members. do they still tell you they would like to see you in number ten one day? would like to see you in number ten one da ? ., . would like to see you in number ten oneda ? ., . , , one day? no, what people tell me is the are one day? no, what people tell me is they are very — one day? no, what people tell me is they are very pleased _ one day? no, what people tell me is they are very pleased what - one day? no, what people tell me is they are very pleased what i'm i one day? no, what people tell me isj they are very pleased what i'm doing with my business and trade group and with my business and trade group and with the equalities brief as well, and i'm very happy being business and i'm very happy being business and trade secretary. that is 100% what my focus is on and making sure rishi sunak has all the support he needs to be able to deliver his priorities in this government. kemi badenoch, thank _

priorities in this government. kemi badenoch, thank you _ priorities in this government. kemi badenoch, thank you for _ priorities in this government. kemi badenoch, thank you forjoining us all the way from new zealand. it's great to have you on the programme for the first time. also down under, the lionesses are there — getting ready for the women's football world cup which is about to start in new zealand and australia. here they are training in queensland, hoping to repeat their amazing victory in last year's euros. so many of us got caught up in the women's game for the first time during the euros, fan or not — but did it change the status of the game for good as the lionesses hoped? sarah walsh, a former matilda, the aussie women's team, is one of the hosts in australia. we won the right to host this women's world cup in back in 2020. and it was always more than just delivering, you know, really good football on the park. it was always about leaving a legacy for our code here in australia. and, you know, we wanted this to be big. and hosting women's world cup really stacks up to what we delivered here in 2000. we hosted the sydney olympics here.

in terms of how women footballers are treated differently, though, there's a curious thing recently — lots of female players are getting acl injuries, a particular injury, and there's some suggestion that that's partly because manufacturers aren't thinking through how women's bodies are different, the kind of boots that they need, that they're sort of not given the right appropriate treatment in the way that male players�* kit. should manufacturers have a harder think about the kind of kit and equipment that female players need? i think at the heart of the issue, it's not manufacturers, it's actually research. the real lack of research. the entire high performance environment is built around men, designed by men for men. you know, for a long time, women have been treated like little men. you know, i would have loved to have known if my menstrual cycle had have contributed to any one of my knee reconstructions, you know. and i think until we better understand, you know, how women's biology is different, how do we know that our hip structure isn't different and that we should be something different in our prehab,

and we haven't even scratched the surface. and it's 100 years' underinvestment in women's football has put us in this point where we've lost a number of different players for this world cup, which is a shame we won't get to see them. but yeah, it's something that we really need to invest in research. in terms of the tournament itself, so the lionesses and the matildas, the australian players, are not in the same group to start with, but of course they might meet further down. i've got to ask you, who would win? oh, look, i'm not going to speculate on that much. i'd love as a spectator watching the game, i think that'd be way too early for these two powerhouses to meet. and, you know, going off the previous match, i think that they learn a lot from that match. and, you know, if we do come up against them, i think fans would absolutely love it. and there is now going to be these matches on — some on itv and some on the bbc — but the time difference for our viewers in this country is quite tricky. if people might be thinking,

you know, "i'd just rather get my head down and stay in bed," why would you tell them to set the alarm to watch this tournament? it's a really fascinating place here with women's football, it's starting to break new ground and challenge the status quo. and you would have seen that with the other broadcast rights, fifa as a rights holder. you know, in many of the big markets in europe, they held their ground too, to really extract the right value, because if we continue to undersell these rights, you know, the ecosystem won't correct around it. and i think, you know, i think that's really interesting. we're in this moment where women's sport and these female athletes are breaking new ground. and i think there's other industries that will benefit from this change. sarah, thank you so much forjoining us this morning. enjoy the tournament very much. it's great to have you on the show. and we have had a few little gremlins with our sound talking to people down under on the other side of the world, but sarah walsh there. good luck to all the teams — the first game's on the bbc next saturday.

it's nearly ten o'clock and we started the programme asking what kind of prime minister keir starmer really wants to be. last labour government grew the economy and had tens of billions of pounds more to spend on our public services. that's what i want to replicate, to grow our economy so we have that yield to put into our public services but that has to start with responsible economics and it has to be coupled with reform. growth first, spending next was his message, so what did you think of it? james stephenson writes: "keir starmer has not got any answers to anything. the answer to the doctors strike today is not to grow the economy tomorrow." brian kirk says: "it's no good building houses if the people who need them cannot afford them. we need reform of the way people pay for the houses they want to buy." but colin says: "i don t want any more houses built near me — my town has grown by 30% in the last ten years."

sharon, kemi badenoch signed the uk up sharon, kemi badenoch signed the uk up to a big new trading bloc, will it make a difference to the economy? it's obviously a positive. as you said in your discussion, it's not going to be a substantive shift. what i would love to hear more as we sign new trade deals is what this is doing for british farmers, and we are ensuring we are not undercutting british farmers, not undercutting great animal welfare standards in this country, and i would love to hear more about that in future. $5 hear more about that in future. as someone who has a big food retailer as part of the business you run, is that an anxiety you have? waitrose as ou that an anxiety you have? waitrose as you know _ that an anxiety you have? waitrose as you know is _ that an anxiety you have? waitrose as you know is the _ that an anxiety you have? waitrose as you know is the highest - that an anxiety you have? waitrose as you know is the highest rated i as you know is the highest rated across the world for animal welfare standards so i would not want the uk to be signing up to deals that undercut the nutrition, the great sourcing and sustainability that matters to many people. but shoppers want lower bills, _ matters to many people. but shoppers want lower bills, at _ matters to many people. but shoppers want lower bills, at the _ matters to many people. but shoppers want lower bills, at the moment - want lower bills, at the moment people are struggling and waitrose is at the top end of the scale. it’s

is at the top end of the scale. it's interesting. _ is at the top end of the scale. it�*s interesting, our customers are also saying i actually want great quality as well. of course there is choice about value but i don't think we want coronated chicken. br; about value but i don't think we want coronated chicken.- about value but i don't think we want coronated chicken. by the time the politicians _ want coronated chicken. by the time the politicians come _ want coronated chicken. by the time the politicians come back _ want coronated chicken. by the time the politicians come back in - the politicians come back in september, do you think things will have changed much? ilat september, do you think things will have changed much? not necessarily. look have changed much? not necessarily. look around — have changed much? not necessarily. look around you. _ have changed much? not necessarily. look around you, has _ have changed much? not necessarily. look around you, has orthodoxy i have changed much? not necessarily. look around you, has orthodoxy got l look around you, has orthodoxy got you anywhere?— look around you, has orthodoxy got you anywhere? what do you mean by that? the language _ you anywhere? what do you mean by that? the language he _ you anywhere? what do you mean by that? the language he uses - you anywhere? what do you mean by that? the language he uses is - you anywhere? what do you mean by that? the language he uses is aping| that? the language he uses is aping the conservative _ that? the language he uses is aping the conservative party _ that? the language he uses is aping the conservative party and - that? the language he uses is aping the conservative party and the i the conservative party and the economic— the conservative party and the economic orthodoxy since post—thatcher, her economic settlement, i'm talking to the audience _ settlement, i'm talking to the audience here, does the country feel like something that is working? does it feel— like something that is working? does it feel like _ like something that is working? does it feel like you want to be here? is life better? — it feel like you want to be here? is life better? if not, does more of the same — life better? if not, does more of the same suit you? i would say no it doesn't _ the same suit you? i would say no it doesn't. ., , . . , ~ ., doesn't. the conservative party know that --eole doesn't. the conservative party know that people are _ doesn't. the conservative party know that people are not _ doesn't. the conservative party know that people are not happy _ doesn't. the conservative party know that people are not happy with - doesn't. the conservative party know that people are not happy with the i that people are not happy with the way things are in the country, what's your prediction of what the next couple of months will look

like? ~ . , next couple of months will look like? : . , . . next couple of months will look like? . _ . , like? what is certain is the prime minister is _ like? what is certain is the prime minister is focused _ like? what is certain is the prime minister is focused on _ like? what is certain is the prime minister is focused on his - like? what is certain is the prime minister is focused on his top i minister is focused on his top priorities— minister is focused on his top priorities which— minister is focused on his top priorities which is _ minister is focused on his top priorities which is reducing i minister is focused on his top i priorities which is reducing debt and stopping _ priorities which is reducing debt and stopping the _ priorities which is reducing debt and stopping the small- priorities which is reducing debt and stopping the small boats... priorities which is reducing deth and stopping the small boats... i was and stopping the small boats... was wondering if you are going and stopping the small boats...“ was wondering if you are going to talk about the five priorities! taste talk about the five priorities! we have faced the most extraordinary last few _ have faced the most extraordinary last few years _ have faced the most extraordinary last few years with _ have faced the most extraordinary last few years with the _ have faced the most extraordinary last few years with the covid - last few years with the covid pandemic— last few years with the covid pandemic and— last few years with the covid pandemic and with - last few years with the covid pandemic and with putin's i last few years with the covid - pandemic and with putin's invasion of ukraine. — pandemic and with putin's invasion of ukraine. and— pandemic and with putin's invasion of ukraine, and yet— pandemic and with putin's invasion of ukraine, and yet the _ pandemic and with putin's invasion of ukraine, and yet the uk- pandemic and with putin's invasion of ukraine, and yet the uk in- pandemic and with putin's invasion of ukraine, and yet the uk in real. of ukraine, and yet the uk in real gdpterms— of ukraine, and yet the uk in real gdp terms has— of ukraine, and yet the uk in real gdp terms has grown _ of ukraine, and yet the uk in real gdp terms has grown faster- of ukraine, and yet the uk in real gdp terms has grown faster since 2010 _ gdp terms has grown faster since 2010 than— gdp terms has grown faster since 2010 than any— gdp terms has grown faster since 2010 than any comparable - gdp terms has grown faster since 2010 than any comparable eu i gdp terms has grown faster since i 2010 than any comparable eu nation. france. _ 2010 than any comparable eu nation. france. spain. — 2010 than any comparable eu nation. france, spain, italy. _ 2010 than any comparable eu nation. france, spain, italy. 50— 2010 than any comparable eu nation. france, spain, italy. 50 we _ 2010 than any comparable eu nation. france, spain, italy. 50 we can- 2010 than any comparable eu nation. france, spain, italy. 50 we can be i france, spain, italy. 50 we can be proud _ france, spain, italy. 50 we can be proud of— france, spain, italy. 50 we can be proud of that— france, spain, italy. 50 we can be proud of that but _ france, spain, italy. 50 we can be proud of that but i— france, spain, italy. 50 we can be proud of that but i do— france, spain, italy. 50 we can be proud of that but i do think- france, spain, italy. 50 we can be proud of that but i do think ollie l proud of that but i do think ollie is right— proud of that but i do think ollie is right and _ proud of that but i do think ollie is right and there _ proud of that but i do think ollie is right and there is _ proud of that but i do think ollie is right and there is more - proud of that but i do think ollie is right and there is more to- is right and there is more to life than _ is right and there is more to life than simply— is right and there is more to life than simply looking _ is right and there is more to life than simply looking at - is right and there is more to life than simply looking at gdp- is right and there is more to life i than simply looking at gdp growth, so some _ than simply looking at gdp growth, so some of— than simply looking at gdp growth, so some of the _ than simply looking at gdp growth, so some of the reform _ than simply looking at gdp growth, so some of the reform ideas - than simply looking at gdp growth, so some of the reform ideas the i so some of the reform ideas the government— so some of the reform ideas the government is— so some of the reform ideas the government is looking - so some of the reform ideas the government is looking at, - so some of the reform ideas the government is looking at, the i so some of the reform ideas the i government is looking at, the net zero transition, _ government is looking at, the net zero transition, are _ government is looking at, the net zero transition, are absolutely- zero transition, are absolutely cruciat — zero transition, are absolutely crucial. ., , zero transition, are absolutely crucial. :, . ~' zero transition, are absolutely crucial. ., , ~ , zero transition, are absolutely crucial. ~ , ., , crucial. people like things to be cheerful about _ crucial. people like things to be cheerful about that _ crucial. people like things to be cheerful about that as - crucial. people like things to be cheerful about that as well i crucial. people like things to be cheerful about that as well so i crucial. people like things to be i cheerful about that as well so we did have a word about the women's world cup after a tough discussion about politics but it's been great

to have you with us. i don't think i have had two dames at the table with me before. thank you, andrea, oli and sharon. great to have you all, and thank you of course for watching, notjust this morning, but as we leave you for the summer break, for the last few months. for all your emails, and messages, and company every sunday morning. a spring and summer where the conservatives haven't been able to catch a break, and labour has stayed way out in front. the lib dems and the greens picked up momentum in those local elections not so long ago, but the snp has fallen into real trouble. more than anything else, though, the profound problems of the economy have been laid bare. the questions about who has the ideas to help the country make a living are only going to get louder. until september, there's tonnes you can watch back on iplayer — our encounter with arnold schwarzenegger, the prime minister, or keir starmerfrom this morning. we're back on the first sunday in september — stick it in the diary!

i'll see you same time, same place. take care, and goodbye till september.

good morning. it's sunday. it's 10 o'clock. welcome to politics north west. this week: what's the future for local sport and for the departing defence secretary? and much more.

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