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tv   The Media Show  BBC News  July 16, 2023 11:30am-12:00pm BST

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than 1% to the uk's economy. and novak djokovic will face carlos alcaraz at wimbledon later today in what is one of the most anticipated finals of a generation. they've been two of the leading players this year and will battle it out to be the world number one. now on bbc news...the media show. hello. today, we are going to be taking a look at the unrest in france earlier this month and the issues forjournalists covering the story. president macron blamed video games and social media for inciting the violence and has even floated the idea of cutting off the likes of tiktok and snapchat in future times of crisis. meanwhile, fake news, false claims about what is going on, have been in abundance. journalists have been
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attacked and injured, so lots to discuss around the media's role. katya adler, the bbc�*s europe editor is with us. we have also gotjournalists who have been out reporting for french outlets. and we have got one of the bosses of agents france press, the big news agency. but before we get into that, i want to cross to new york and start with emma tucker, the editor in chief of the wall streetjournal. one of emma's reporters, evan gershkovich, has now been imprisoned in russia for more than 100 days. the authorities accuse evan of being a spy. charges that he, the us and the wall streetjournal all deny. he is the first western journalist to be detained in russia since the cold war. emma, welcome to the show. i will ask you for the latest on the situation in a moment but can you just take us back and remind people the circumstances of his arrest back in march? evan is an accredited journalist in russia. he had full accreditation from the russian foreign ministry and he was doing what he always does, he was out reporting from the ground.
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he was covering a story over in the east of russia and while he was out on this assignment, he failed to check with us. we have a system forjournalists operating in difficult territories, which i am sure the other journalists will recognise, whereby we asked people to check in twice a day. he missed his morning check in and then he missed again his afternoon check in and overnight, it was confirmed he had been picked up and arrested and taken back to moscow to be held there. and after the first... i am sure people will be interested in the check in system. were you very worried after the first non—check in? is it rare for people not to check in? it is unusual. and i did not like it, but i did not panic because, you know, people lose internet access, they lose their phones, they get tied up doing something, so i did not like it, but i did then panic...
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i did not panic, i did then start to really worry when in the afternoon i was told the second check in had been missed and at that point, we all started to worry. i went home, i went to bed, i left my phone on and i said, call me if it is bad and my phone went off at four o'clock in the morning. i get emotional thinking about it. it is so awful. he had been arrested. for espionage. absolutely. and you have been quite categoric that the charges he was arrested on are completely baseless. totally bogus. completely. everybody denies it. we denied, the us government denies it, his family is complete... complete rubbish. and he is a russian heritage journalist, whose family left russia before he was born, is that right? evan is american born and bred. his parents fled the soviet union. his parents are sovietjews who left the soviet union in the 1970s to start a new life in america. they took advantage of an opening
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that allowed waves ofjews to leave the soviet union. evan and his older sister danielle were both born in the us and were educated here. the thing about evan is he is bilingual and he was very interested in his heritage. they spoke russian at home with his parents and he was fascinated. his parents had taken him back there on holiday. he loved the country. and he really understood the country as well. and this is what makes him such a great reporter. and what do you know now about the conditions that he is being held in and what did you know early on? he was taken to this prison in moscow, which is notorious, it is a prison that has been around since the cold war, since long before that. it is where they tend to take political prisoners. one thing that we can report is he was finally granted consular access,
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the last time he got that was april 17. we have very limited information but he is in good health. and he is bearing up 0k. i think he is there, he is reading, he can receive letters from people and he can send letters out, all heavily censored, i think, everybody goes through the centre, but he is doing... years looking after himself as best he can. does he have access to a lawyer? yes, he has some wonderful russian lawyers. that is where we get most of our information. we cannot speak to him directly but we can contact him via the lawyers and he has a very good relationship with them and he is in regular contact with them. and the 100 day anniversary of his arrest, this friday, the 7th ofjuly, what more, if anything, can you tell us about this report
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about a possible prisoner swap? a kremlin spokesperson was quoted as saying there have been certain contacts on the subject but they must be carried out and continue complete silence. yes, we don't know what he was referring to. we can only speculate. we have no idea. we don't know anything. i mean, what i can say is that... i suppose the anticipation is that the normal course of events in cases like this is that once there has been a trial and evan has been found... convicted, then some sort of prisoner swap might take place but again, i stress, we have heard nothing official, just picked up on this quote from the kremlin spokesman, which again we don't know what he was referring to but he did say that. i wanted to bring infill.
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presumably when it comes to reporting in russia, this has a chilling effect. evan worked for afp before joining the wall streetjournal. how are you managing your moscow bureau in light of what has happened to him? it has been a really tough period for our team in moscow. obviously, an event like what has happened to evan passe cloud over everybody trying to do theirjob. in very difficult conditions will top i will reiterate what emma has said he is a terrific journalist, loved by the whole team. nothing but great things i can say about him as a journalist. and so obviously, it second guesses everybody who is there. some decide to leave, others cannot leave because they may be russian. and they try to do theirjob as best they can, not really knowing where the line is. that is what is so hard. and emma, what level... what kind of staffing do you currently have in russia for the wall streetjournal?
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we no longer have anyone in russia. it is too dangerous. we have talented reporters who are doing... covering this story from outside, they have contacts inside russia but it is a very dangerous place to keep a journalistic presence, as we have discovered we have a journalist in russia, hejust happens to be behind bars. we are talking in a bit about the unrest in france, one of the issues we will get to it is the level of mistrust people in france have ofjournalists, which is not dissimilar to hear in the uk. you were talking about the kind of issues facing journalists but do you think the public actually appreciates the genuine risk some journalists, reporters like evan, face in bringing then the news? i think yes and no. one thing that has been amazing is the level of support we have had from notjust otherjournalists right from the wider public. our own readers are really very
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supportive and outraged on our behalf and that has been very encouraging. but i think perhaps it is underappreciated, the risks thatjournalists take and the importance of what they do. in america where i am now, they do take independent journalism very seriously. i think that is party explaining the credible response we have had here. i don't know. i think we need to tell the world more often how dangerous and complicated it is, to maintain a network of foreign correspondent the amount of back work that goes into it, the visas, the security, the assessments you have to make on the ground, families, it is a complex and difficult business, keeping a foreign correspondent network going. emma tucker, editor in chief at the wall streetjournal, thank you so much for coming on the programme. we now turn to france where earlier this month the country was gripped by riots. the starting point was the fatal
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shooting of 17—year—old nahel m by a policeman in a suburb of paris. in the violence that followed, thousands were arrested and shops were looted and vehicle satellite. we are in a tourist hotspot and as you can see, right police are everywhere around. this is not the face of france that emmanuel macron wants you to see. the n60 reporters without borders says at least 18 journalists were attacked during the protest and rioting. a freelance covering protests in the city needed stitches after being hit with a crowbar. and hundreds of police had been injured. let's find out what it has been like for journalists.
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emma pearson is the editor. welcome to all of you, butlet me start with you, tell us what you are experiencing. your channel has been reporting nonstop on this story. yes, i covered the first full night of violence i in paris, the most violence. more than 3000 people i are injail after these riots. it started with the shooting of a 17—year—old boy. - police were mobilised. they are police that are normally
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fighting terrorist operations. - many fireworks were fired at the police. . many cars were set on fire. and lots of businesses and shops looted. - and police stations, the same. the mayor was attacked by two pe0ple~ - an incredible situation for it is very difficult . forjournalists in france to cover these riots. i let's have a listen to a clip of you reporting on tuesday the evening, the day that nahel m was killed.
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you are standing in front of a police van and talking about the violence that has started. just tell me a bit about what happened when you first tried to report from that scene because i understand... i understand people were telling you that you should leave. young people from the neighbourhood . tell us that the only way to appear . in the media is to burn everything. burning police stations, cars, - some people, and the police may recognise them and they think we don't tell the truth - and that we protect the police. young people asked us to leave this place. - it is very problematic to work.
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in paris, the same in toulouse. we are used to covering the protest in paris. - it is the same situation. since the yellowjackets. what does it mean you do in terms of staying safe? do you take a security card? what is the situation for you? for covering the riots, the protest in paris, . we have security, we are filming with the iphone, not _ bigger equipment. much smaller equipment, so you are much less obvious. yes, we cannot use normal cameras. because it is too dangerous for the journalist to- work in this situation.
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and safety is important for us. is it about a mistrust of the media, hatred ofjournalists, or is it because the kid is expensive and people might think it is worth robbing? i don't know that. i think the problem is mistrust of the press in france to date. j yes. lots of people don't believe... people think that the prices near to emmanuel macron. and is not independent. it is since yellowjackets, since four years ago. - what precautions have you had to take and what reaction have you had from people on the ground?
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the bbc... when you are known to go out into those kind of situations, with the bbc, you get riot training and also i worked in the middle east for many years and you get hostile environment training which is renewed every three years. and though sort of things are for insurance of course, from a bbc point of view but it is also to equip us with realising key things. for example nanterre, daytime, the housing estate where nahel lived, it can look quite calm during the day but in seconds it could change. you have one look, a whole people appear and you are threatened. that it happened to us on the thursday that we were there. things happen very fast. what happened when you did get threatened? several times we were
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threatened, we were... just by raising a mobile phone and filming. people were shouting at us, where were you before nahel? the press and authorities only look when something happens, that is a big question. many people we spoke to in those suburbs and from nahel�*s family, the cases getting so much attention from the press and the authorities responding is because it was filmed on mobile phones from several different angles, which means that the policeman who shot nahel initially he said he thought his life in the life of another police colleague was in danger. that was shown from phone footage to be absolutely not the case. but then in the suburbs, they will say to you, there are many nahels but their deaths, they discover nation, the racial profiling they say they face every single day is not recorded and read the press
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are not there and that leads to a lot of resentment. also from what we look like, we lead very different lives to the ones they experience in the suburbs and they object to being portrayed as... two big police unions in france put out a press free scoring them savage hordes, pests. and so what they fear is the press is there to portray them as such. so there is a deep, deep, deep distrust but also i have to say we face when we are going out with demonstrations of the far right in france as well, there you also have a deep distrust of... as you know, it is called mainstream media and we are not welcome that can also lead to us being pushed around and cameras being taken or damaged. and in terms of your approach to this story, if you are faced with unrest across an entire country, it started on the outskirts of paris, how do you decide...
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i don't mean what angle in a dodgy way in any sense, but how do you decide how you are going to cover it? the bbc is very lucky in that we have lots of talented reporters across europe and so with a story like that, so bay, you have such huge riots, across the country, shocking the country and france's allies across the world, it is important to show it is not just paris and so we are able to do that. it is important to get different voices on, clearly. whereas of course the people who live in those suburbs are the ones attracting attention, we made an effort to go and talk to a police union as well to get their perspective. i went to france's ministry of foreign events were macro affairs. i think for once, credibility, you really need always to have the different perspectives are the different voices and the young rioters,
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their mothers and fathers. it was so striking, i thought, that president macron had to leave the biggest emergency that europe is looking at right now, the invasion of ukraine, he was at an eu summit and he had to leave at the press conference he then gave was appealing to the parents, the mothers and fathers, of the young rioters, saying keep them at home, keep them off social media where there are messages circulating, asking them to gather on the streets and protest but it is also an indication of the fact that he has to ask then that he is aware that french authorities just do not have a foothold or any trust in the communities that they could reach believably and appeal for calm. that is a real indictment. we were talking earlier about the precautions journalist had to take and presumably when access to the scene of a story becomes
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an issue when journalists are being attacked potentially, i am assuming a newsagency like yours becomes even more useful to newspapers and tv channels because you can go out and try and provide the material that they may be less able to get, i don't. absolutely. what i would say for example is we have a full—time correspondent in nanterre. we have someone who works there everyday when there is not a riot or a crisis and so on, so therefore, knows people that you can then call on when you need to go in there in difficult times, so you can build trust and also we have a network of bureaus across france, of course, which means we can mobilise as and when different areas of unrest break—out. to react as things evolve. for clients such as the bbc, clients all over the world. and the levels of precaution that we were talking about, filming on iphones, security guards, is that also the kind of thing you would implement?
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absolutely. we would certainly film with iphones. since the yellow vests, which boris mentioned, we have seen that real anger towards the media on the streets, integrate television. i would say our text journalists and photographers have been able to work relatively easily on demonstrations. there is a huge sensitivity about tv and a huge sensitivity about live tv. that is really raising the stakes. what i would say over the last sort of week is it has really gone up a notch. it was that much higher. we had journalists injured. maybe it was the younger demographic. i think it was also linked to the fact there was a lot of criminality going on. there was a fear that the images would be used by police
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or someone later as evidence to bring criminal cases. text journalists could actually work, they were let through sometimes, whereas the image people were in trouble. and also saying about mistrust, emma pearson, has mistrust ever being this bad in the media in france? the latest report says france is one of the lowest scoring european countries for public trust in the news. just 30% trust it most the time. yes, i think as the other said, we certainly saw this a lot - since the yellow vests and city pandemic, like all countries, i there has been a real increase - in sort of distressing media but one thing i did notice this time - was this absolute avalanche of this information on social media about the riots in france . and they were crazy| stories going round. they seemed to me to be amplified l by english—language media accounts, the far right in the uk and the us, they were really amplifying it, - stories and sharing video clips that
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were not from france, _ from years ago, stills from movies, i the leader of the british far—right. party sharing a clip from one i of the fast and furious movies, claiming that people were pushing cards of multistorey car parks, - that it not happen. it seems to me that the i disinformation has kicked up a notch this time. president macron has been blaming social media and video games, he seems to be saying in future they will cut off social media. how do you think that will go down? i think maybe his comic might have been slightly exaggerated. - he said he had a meeting with a lot of mayors and this is reporting - what was said in the meeting. it is maybe not as quite as extreme i as it sounds i think there looking. to bring in some provisions. for a social media bill that is already going through parliament.
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ijust as we come towards the end, what would be your suggestion... what are your thoughts on the strategy president macron has employed over the last few days? he has tried to tread quite a tightrope in a very security obsessed country, where the far right is breathing down his neck in public opinion polls, to put a lot of extra security forces on the street but at the same time try to not inflame passions. he did not call for a state of emergency, which is what we saw the last time there were such huge riots in france, back in 2005. the difference then is that it was just in the suburbs and did not spread into mainstream france and that has been put down to social media that is why he is worried about it. i'm afraid that is all we have got time for this week. thank you so much to all my guests. thank you all some much for watching.
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goodbye. hello. sunshine between today's showers and hopefully fewer showers on balance. but it has been a disturbed weekend. this is the reason. it's an unusually deep area of low pressure for mid—july. it's taking its windiest weather across scotland and northern ireland today. lots of showers here as well. but yesterday, quite significant wind gusts for england and wales of 56 mile an hour gusts recorded in southampton, which is really unusual for mid—july. now, through the day ahead, still blustery winds not as strong in the south and hopefully less frequent showers. but it is still a blustery day with showers and so it'll feel quite cool. the showers will be more prevalent,
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in fact, longer spells of rain across parts of the north and northwest of scotland, some heavier downpours. northern ireland, northern england across wales, but hopefully some good breaks in the cloud and fewer showers further south and east. but you saw its a gusty day wind—wise and so it will feel cool. temperatures aren't too far away from average for the time of year, but with a northwesterly, i think we'll note that chill across parts of scotland where we'll continue with those showers. still some lively thundery downpours into the evening and overnight before they fade and we see lengthier clear spells and a fresher start as we head towards monday morning. so a drier, brighter start, less windy on monday, because this ridge of high pressure�*s starting to nudge its way into southern areas in particular, still quite a cluster of showers across scotland, not as many as today. similarly so for northern ireland, england and wales. lengthier dry spells, lighter winds and more sunshine, which means it'll feel more pleasant out and about. it'll feel warmer. temperatures into the mid to high
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teens, low 20s in southern england. into tuesday, however, and we have our next area of low pressure here. it is approaching off the atlantic and already we've had more than thejuly average rainfall across the uk. now it is much needed rainfall, a little bit of difficulty putting down the detail on this system. but it does look as if it'll bring another fairly significant outbreaks of rain, not as windy, probably showery to the north and largely dry and fine to the south and east. but yes, more unsettled weather is on the way. and following that, plenty more showers as we head through the rest of the week and into the weekend. as ever, you can keep up to date as ever, you can keep up to date with more on the website. with more on the website.
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live from london, this is bbc news. nearly a third of americans are nearly a third of americans are under extreme temperature warnings under extreme temperature warnings as the us joins southern europe as the us joins southern europe in the grip of a heatwave. in the grip of a heatwave. the uk becomes the latest the uk becomes the latest member of a trade bloc of countries member of a trade bloc of countries in asia and the pacific. some question its value — but the trade secretary says it's good news for britain. it is, it's quite a momentous occasion, and we are all here, so proud, so excited. and in sport — novak djokovic will face carlos alcaraz at wimbledon later, in what is one of the most anticipated finals of a generation.
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