and in sport, carlos alcaraz leads novak djokovic 2—sets—to—1 on centre court in the wimbledon men's singles final. now on bbc news — talking business. hello, everybody. a very warm welcome to talking business weekly. let's have a look at what is on the show. the risk and rewards of artificial intelligence. in business, it is already being talked about as a generational game changer across—the—board, from farming to finance and from construction to customer service. some say it is going to destroy jobs, kill industries and could even blow up the world. others say it could help cure disease, create new high paying jobs and even help solve global warning. where should we be opening our arms to aland where

should we be keeping it at arm's—length and who should be making those decisions? i am going to find out from these two. kriti sharma, one of the founders of ai for good and dame wendy hall, one of the world's leading computer who has helped shape the official uk strategy. also on the show a legend from the advertising world, sir martin sorrell. he built the world's biggest ad company. he talks about how this technology is changing his industry already. wherever you arejoining me from around the world, once again, a big hello and a warm welcome to the show. have you heard about a little thing called ai? unless you have been

living under a rock, you cannot have failed to have noticed the phenomenon that is being called the new tech revolution. artificial intelligence itself has been around for years but since the launch of the latest large language model processes, your chat gpt, your google bard, for example, we have all begun to take notice and the reaction has been huge. it has sparked a gold rush in the tech world and a new global dash for a piece of the cake. the ability for computers to create humanlike responses to complex problems offers huge potential, to alter the way that we live and work. i'm sure you will also be made aware of the potential pitfalls. from veiled warning sirens being sounded by front line workers sounded, worried about theirjobs to democracies fear the power of misinformation and deep fakes and some of the most distinguished people building the tech voicing their fears. with the likes of the ai

godfather geoffrey hinton and leaders of the major ai labs, including sam altman of openai, the people behind chat gpt and demis hassabis of google all signing a letter stating that... that certainly makes you think. all part of the reason why people and countries are approaching ai with a mixture of fear and excitement. optimism and concern put into numbers in one recent survey of workers, with over a third saying that they thought their jobs were likely to be eliminated by artificial intelligence. front line workers are surprisingly more negative about the impact of machine learning than managers. and international differences also showed up. the most optimistic, brazil, india and the middle east. and the least optimistic, the united states, the netherlands and japan.

kriti sharma, a real pleasure having you on the programme. we have looked at how different countries are approaching ai. i am wondering, are using different regions embracing the tech and others that are not? we are seeing pretty much a race to being the first in al, the leader in al around the world. the approach however is different. some countries are taking more thoughtful approaches to building it safely, taking a cleaner... clearer view on the risk this technology poses, we're seeing regulation is emerging in a similar way. european commission is putting this forward. there are others who are more out to be faster in adopting and implementing ai across the board. the approach is different.

but the application is pretty global at this point. as is the talent that is involved in developing it. and how have you seen the reaction from developing economies? i have done a lot of work in building ai solutions for communities around the world in supporting them, using these tools to get access to services, such as helping them understand the law, or issues around mental health, in many communities around the world. i have done a lot of work in south africa, india, and so on. and what we are seeing is the impact of this technology is so much more scalable in communities where there are access issues from the get go. it is not a replacement of human skills, it is an augmentation where we just don't have critical infrastructure at a fast enough pace. to give you an example, in communities where front line workers are overworked, exhausted, do not have

the right tools, this technology can help people take that first step a little bit easier and connect to the right services. this is about augmentation in those communities. what we are not seeing being solved with al though is the lack of digital infrastructure, where conductivity is already an issue, it does not... it limits the use of ai in many ways. i would say there is a real need to improve the underlying infrastructure, so we can start using and reaping the benefits of ai for everyone. where do you see the most potential, from a development angle, for al to be used? i see the most potential in areas where there is a lot of knowledge and information already available but the applications of it have not really fully come to fruition, so one example is in the world of law. where we have huge amounts

of information available around the law and how it works and historical knowledge that has been created by people who are professionals in this field. but accessing it often is difficult. we are all quite familiar with the law firm associate who has to work until 2am to get information passed the deadline. but we are now seeing applications such as creating a new draft, a first draft, using artificial intelligence will topic can help you do that within minutes, work that would previously take days. this information access of knowledge that already exist, information that exist, but is not available in a trusted way at your fingertips, is now being solved with artificial intelligence. if we can use ai for social impact, social good, making knowledge available for everybody, for giving trusted information, solving real—world challenges

that face us today, i will be very happy, but we can only do this if we use ai in a safe way, if we build ai in a trusted way and if we can get this regulation right globally. briefly, do you think that will happen? do you think we will get mankind... as humans, will we get it right? a lot of time, we get things wrong. i think we have a lot of global support at this point and there is a lot of awareness around what this technology is about to do for humanity. i think we have to do this safely. safeguard against some of the challenges where we might not be able to get it right completely and this is where regulation comes in. i also think, i fundamentally believe, that we have the one area where we need the most work, we have not done yet, is skills and newjob creation. there will be a lot of new technology opportunities, just in a way the digital era did. i would encourage policymakers, global leaders, business

leaders, to take an active well thought through proactive approach to skills development and newjob creation. let me ask you this, because ai uses plain language, whether it is english, french, spanish, italian, etc, not coding language, does that open the door for nontechnical, like myself? to be able to, i don't know, do anything with al? i think that the potential for people from many different backgrounds, including language, linguistics, to come and be part of the ai creation is really, really exciting and interesting. for example, we have the model of instead of writing code, we write prose, we talk to machines, i spend more time talking to machines and humans. ——talking to machines than humans. and this is an interesting time in how we can bring human curiosity to train the machines

to do better things and it is now commonly said the newest programming language is playing human language. absolutely, this goes to the point of creating new skills and new roles that are going to be generated and may be one of those will be a ai conversation designer. a real pleasure having you on the show. thank you for your time and we will talk to you soon. i look forward to talking to you again you and machines have a happy friendship. the fears about the possibilities of this technology are massive as well, leaving governments around the world or scrabbling to catch up and regulate it. i sat down with my next guest, who has been helping shape the uk ai strategy. she is one of the leading global academics in the field. a real pleasure having you on the show. let's start with this, because there seems to be a great deal...

to be a great deal of the fear of missing out. everybody rushing in and it does feel like a rush. is the technology that is there now, is it ready for all of this? no. well, i mean, if we are talking about al, then ai has been around a long time and we all use in our every day lives, facial recognition, predictive text, all the things we use on our phones, it is all driven by ai, different types of technologies that have been involved in research labs for a long time. i am beginning to think that if you remember back in the 1990s when the world wide web first came along, and built on top of the internet, and everyone piled in to suddenly use this web, which was free to use, ring a bell? like chat gpt, free to use? business models were not there and the technology was not ready. the underlying infrastructure was not ready for the mass use of the world wide web. if you remember, we used

a quality worldwide weight a quality worldwide wait because do you render how long it is to take to download a picture? and then it would time out because we had modems. i am just beginning to think that we might be in that place with generative ai today because i think the investors will pile in now. it looks like they are already doing it. but the technology, i don't think, is ready. and so for mass use, in a way that companies can make money out of it. if you remember, with the internet, we had to learn how to make money out of it. that is where the advertising came along. the investors are there that the technology is just not ready. it might not be ready. i just think that we are going to see some attempts to make money in this area, to create commercial companies, which is what we want to see because this is fabulous technology. it is going to help us a huge amount to do things we could not do before. but i am just not quite sure that... i think the investment might be

again ahead of the curve in terms of the technology. how much of a threat do you seeing things like deep fakes for example? ai having the ability to mimic human content, how do we safeguard against that? it easily difficult and i think at the moment what i am saying is to people that there might be an existential threat down the line, it is a long way away, we need to learn to regulate the use of ai and how people... companies use it. but the immediate threats are the deep fakes, this disinformation we have a number of major democratic elections coming up next week, the us president, the uk, spain, the eu, they all have democratic elections and i think the idea of how we are going to control the fakes, the disinformation,

is much more a clear and present danger than any other threat. what about the opportunities? what has got you excited about this? the top answer is always health care. we are beginning to see ai, the image processing piece of ai can analyse scans of tumours, potential tumours, and check them faster and more accurately than a human being. but the other one i am excited about is education. when chat gpt came out, everyone said, we cannot have the kids using this. it will help them write essays. it is like when you had the calculator came out. i remember that at school. you might want to learn how to do long division but you don't have to do it in your daily life. my father was an accountant and he used to divide pounds, shillings and pence by pounds, shillings and pence, by hand. all those jobs have gone now but there are more jobs in the finance industry than you could ever imagine because of the creative things we have learnt to do,

using computers and we will do the same. when we have software that helps us write and absorb information in a form that is a natural language, we will be able to be much more creative around that and i am so excited about that and we will be able to have personalised tutoring, so that children... at the moment, the model of teaching is one person and a0 people in a class, 30 people in a class. we will be able to have personalised tutors for kids. my worry more is that making sure there is an equality of... a level playing field, so that all kids get the same opportunity. talking of a level playing field, one thing we seem to be hearing from the industry around the world is regulation. it feels like they are crying out for regulation. we know that you advise the uk government and you have certainly helped to shape the uk's ai strategy. what is it that you are telling them? we have to learn how to regulate and i think we have

got time to do that but we need to start now and it has to be done globally. there is no point... the eu are going straight to law about this but i personally think that will stifle innovation and it is a good start. that is the tricky part. regulation and not quashing innovation. the uk white paper released in march was much more about allowing for innovation and using all the things we have already to help us start on the regulation journey. all of these are possible. then you have got the fact that actually in the eu, we don't have any companies, they are in the us or china. we really, the us has got to be in line with this, because in the us, the companies are lobbying washington to get the laws that they want to help them grow as companies, but that does not mean they will take any notice of what we're doing in regulation here. and then we have to bring

china to the table. we have to learn how to get it right, if we rush to do it, we could well get it wrong and we could be regulating for the here and now but not for the future. let me end on this. as a cutting—edge computer scientist, get the crystal ball out, where is this technology in five years�* time? i would answer your question by saying, what was it like five years ago? chat gpt did not exist but everything else we have been talking about existed. we will see incremental advances. it will feel like big waves but if you think back, we did not have a world wide web, 30 years ahead, they will be huge advantage. there will be huge advances. but i am hoping that we will be able to put in place frameworks for regulating in the future that are flexible and agile enough to cope with new technologies that come along and we can work out how to manage them in the future.

even though we don't know what they are yet. you are scaring me in some ways, but i will end on that. a real pleasure having you on the show. thank you for your time. ok, so far in the show, we have beenjudging the risks and rewards of artificial intelligence and my next guest says companies that failed to capitalise on al tools will risk losing out. he should know, he created the worlds largest advertising company from a standing start. these days, he is using technology to disrupt the old ways of working at his new company. at his new company sa capital. martin, a real pleasure having on the show. let's start with this, because the show this week is all about balancing the positive and the negatives of ai. in advertising, your business, what are some of the positives and negatives, as you see them? just briefly, i think there are five big positives. the first is we are going to see an improvement in productivity on copywriting and visualisation. basically, we will be able

to produce copy and adverts far faster, two weeks down to two days. we will be able to personalise even more effectively. we are able to do that already but it is going to be super productive, instead of producing 1.5 million assets for a campaign, potentially, we can produce multi—million assets for a campaign. thirdly, media planning and buying, i presume will be revolutionised, we will no longer need 10,000 people around the world. you'll be able to do it algorithmically and the people will have very sophisticated data to base their planning decisions on. fourthly, we are going to be able to use al to processes, daily processes and be much more productive. and what i think is the most important positive is that we will be able to democratise information inside companies. they will become much flatter, much more effective and efficient because knowledge will be able to be disseminated around the company, almost

human bots, humans will be able to access information much more effectively. there are legal issues around ip, copywriting, infringements, of copy. that is an issue that has been worked out in the music industry and other industries as we speak. there will always be the bad actors that use these technologies in evil ways and that is something that through self—regulation i think companies have got to put pressure... the regulator is not going to be able to keep up. going to be able to keep up. and finally the issue around jobs. this is going to be a net addingjobs, ora net diminishing ofjobs? my own view personally, push me against the wall, it will be probably negative in terms of netjobs. ai can be used to create complete advertising campaigns but i am just wondering this, will consumers be able to see the difference between one crafted by advertising agencies or one that has been put

together by an algorithm? if i showed you an advert that was ai generated, let's say a year ago, you would see the joints. you would see that it was to some extent manufactured. if i showed you the same process today, a year on, you might not be able to see it. and going forward, i think you definitely won't be able to see it. you will not be able to determine what is manufactured algorithmically and what is done naturally. should advertising and marketing companies be clear with their clients where they use ai in their work? we have already taken a position for example that we will not alter pictures. let's say we had a white actor, not convert that white actor into a black actor or vice versa. we have already put in to place ethical protocols that we think are important.

this comes back to the self—regulation point. it is hopeless for the regulator in my view to believe that he or she can keep up with this. what the governments have to do, regular to have to do, to do, regulators have to do, is to put pressure on the tech companies to behave in a totally responsible way. but having said that, there will always be bad actors. do i think that in next years presidential election, some nefarious people will be using al to generate fake images orfake adverts orfake interventions? yes, i think that will happen. are you also saying then that you don't believe that the world will be able to get together and globally regulate this technology? no, i think we have seen it for example the american regulator, it is trying to unravel a deal that google did ten years ago.

the regulator tends to always be reactive and looking backwards. they lack the resources to do that. if the government was prepared to pile infinite resources into it, in terms of people and knowledge and data and maybe they might be, but what they have to do is work with the industry. in a nutshell, who are the winners and losers in this ai battle? i think new models like our own, i'm obviously biased, but we are a 9,000 people motor torpedo boat, rather than 100,000 people aircraft carrier, so agility will be key. from the platforms, alphabet, meta, amazon, ali baba, tencent, tiktok, plus apple and microsoft, salesforce, adobe, 0racle, they are making

the picks and shovels if you like, the chips that are used for all the computing power, and i think only the larger companies will be able to do it at this sort of scale and this cost and i think inevitably, as they are forced to grow organically because of regulation, i think you will see them expand into it. i would say the six platforms would be western, eastern, press apple and microsoft will be the interesting ones. just briefly, five months were a year's time from now, what is the impact of al on advertising and marketing? i wish i knew. it is different, five minutes to five days, even five years was having said that, i think it will be a much more efficient, much more effective marketing model both bit will be algorithmically driven, the human creative side will be

increasingly important but in a different level. it will be those decisions and those views and those judgments will be made with much more effective data than we have ever had before and i think it will be a much more interesting actually environment because we will have much more data, we will have companies that are leaner, that are more efficient, that are flatter, and where people across the organisation are much more involved in decision—making and much more involved in... have much more access to information. information is power. it is going to democratise knowledge inside companies and going to make people much more productive and much more effective. always a pleasure seeing you. thank you for coming on the show. we will check in with you soon. thank you very much. that is it for this week.

i hope you enjoy the show but you can keep up with the latest on the bbc website and the smartphone app. you can also follow me on twitter. thank you for watching and i will see you soon. goodbye. hello there. the unsettled weather is set to continue with a strong jet stream propelling this low pressure system our way, this is the area of low pressure we saw yesterday moving eastwards and northwards bringing blustery winds across much of england and wales. here are the wind gusts gusting over 55 mph in a few spots. still blustery today especially for this time of year but the winds have eased a little and there will be scattered showers but also some sunny spells. here it is in a bit more detail for the rest of the afternoon. can't rule out the chance of a shower anywhere including some thunder. long spells of rain

in the north—west scotland, thunderstorms for north—east scotland and wind gusts over a0 mph across the pennines and lakes. temperatures in the high teens and low 20s for the south—east and east anglia in the best of the sunshine. this evening and overnight, we keep the cloud across much of scotland, some spells of rain for northern areas, further south should be largely dry and showers fading away and cooler than it was last night, temperatures under those spells dropping into high single figures. next week, not a lot is set to change, still got low pressure largely dominating, more showers through the day on monday and features pushing eastwards with possible thundery showers across parts of east anglia, lincolnshire and midlands in the afternoon. stays cloudy across scotland and some sunny spells at times. temperatures starting to ease across the south—east, 22 or 23. the winds here would be a little lighter. here is the next area of low pressure and that is approaching

western parts as we had three tuesday morning. rather wet across northern ireland, south—west of england and wales. still a sunny start across scotland and rain pushing further northwards and eastwards. winds are lighter on tuesday and temperatures in the south—east could peak at 23 or 2a celsius. the outlook through the rest of the week, temperatures will start to dip with the north—westerly wind and will feel cooler.

live from london. live from london. this is bbc news this is bbc news the british born actress the british born actress and singerjane birkin dies and singerjane birkin dies at the age of 76 in france. at the age of 76 in france. president macron has described her sir keir starmer has president macron has described her as a "complete artist". as a "complete artist". over 100 million americans 0ver100 million americans are facing extreme temperatures — are facing extreme temperatures — as the us joins southern europe as the us joins southern europe in the grip of a heatwave. in the grip of a heatwave.

in an interview with the bbc,