and buildings burned. the violence put the spotlight on deep—seated social, economic and racial tensions and led to calls for action to address inequality and prevent future flare—ups. my guest is france's europe minister, laurence boone. does president macron have a strategy to heal the rifts in france, and to what extent have they diminished his global standing? minister laurence boone, welcome to hardtalk. thank you, zeinab. why have the authorities decided to ban the use

of fireworks during the july 14th bastille day celebrations this year? so, you know, after the riots last week, things have calmed down. it has been a huge drama and obviously people were really moved. and there's also been some riot that are absolutely unacceptable. the tension has softened and it's gone away and we think the situation is under control. but usually bastille day is the opportunity of fireworks, celebration and sometimes obviously some incidents. so given how close we are to the time of the riots, it was better to calm things down and avoid this. as well, you know, in some areas of france, there has been drought, and with fireworks, we better be careful. all right. does the government have a clear strategy to deal with this latest crisis?

yeah, very much so. i mean, as you know, this is not a french specificity. it happened here in the uk exactly a year before the olympic games as well. it happened in sweden. it happened in denmark. there are pockets of inequalities in our society with difficult situation. and when there is a drama such as the death of nahel, then things erupt. now there are three times. there has been a time for emotion and obviously to mourn the death of nehal. there is a time for calming things down and a time forjustice, and there is the time for more structural measures, which is coming along. would you describe what's been happening in france as pockets of problems? it sounds like you're minimising a problem which is actually much more substantial than that and really warrants a clear, long—term strategy. and i put it to you that your government does not have that. no, iam not trying to minimise it. i'm trying to be very factual.

it is true that the images that you've seen of tv have been in circumscribed area, but throughout the territory. they are areas where there is more social inequality than in others, where the government actually has been putting a lot of effort over the last six years in terms of money for urban planning, in terms of public services, in terms of support to families and kids. it's obviously not enough, we have to go further, but it is not a widespread movement across france, and most of france is actually quiet and calm. 0k. a lot of the focus is on the banlieues, the suburbs, and the poorest neighbourhoods where about five million immigrants and many more of their descendants live. it is very clear that there is rampant poverty there. 57% of the population live

in poverty compared to 21% in the population at large. and this is a very specific problem which successive french governments have failed to tackle. unemployment is so much higher in these neighbourhoods. so there are things which are exactly what you have said, like youth unemployment is higher in this area and we need to absolutely address that. there's been a lot of measures to favour entrepreneurship, to boost entrepreneurship in these area. it's quite the case that when people succeed, they leave, but we are still trying to help those people succeed. that's true. one thing which is, i think not quite exact is, you know, 90% of the people who have been arrested are french. they are not foreigners. isaid immigrants and their descendants. i didn't say that they were immigrants. the original immigrants who came from north africa,

and i'm making it very clear that we're talking about third— and fourth—generation french people whose roots may have been in north africa. i put to you what former president francois hollande said. you were an adviser to him. president macron was also a ministerfor him. in 2017, president macron commissioned the banlieues report, which was looking into what to do about the banlieues. recommended that 48 billion euros be invested in infrastructure in these neighbourhoods. former president hollande says it was abandoned. he says under macron, urban regeneration has been limited to just the renovation of a few certain sites. what you are not doing is investing in people. you don't have enough teachers who are properly trained. you don't have enough educational resources, training forjobs and so on. that's where your government is lacking. no, i cannot let you say that, for a couple of reasons. the first one is, as you very rightly said earlier, this has been a long—term problem.

and where president macron stepped in, it was not only about money. i think a lot of the solution in the past have been focusing on money, but we have been doing a lot more than that. i'll give you some examples. we have put in place public service houses, 460 of them, modelled on the canada house of servicing. so they help people, a bit like what the uk government did following the 2011 riots, they help people with the police, with the school, with healthcare, with all social venues, with holidays for the kids. we have been training a lot of these people. apprenticeship in france has been rising super fast over the past six years. it is a deeply entrenched problem which we are solving little by little. it's not only about money. i think we need to be very clear about this. yeah, but it's not only about money. let me tell you what emile chabal, who's currently at edinburgh university, says. he says a feeling...

there is a feeling that there has been a form of window—dressing — buildings, fancy buildings, shiny trams that have brought no real results, nor tackled structural issues that residents face every day, eg, racism and access to the labour market. so there is no systemic racism in france. i think we also need to be very clear about this. that is not true. simply. there are social... why is it not true? because you will find some people sometimes being racist, but the vast majority of the population is not. we have a third of the population who's from different accents are not necessarily french. we are a mixed, diverse society, living together side by side in a very good way. i invite you to come to... i've been to france many times, but that's the thing. do you actually count who your ethnic minorities are in france? because that's. .. you've been citing britain, but that's a big difference between the uk and france.

in france, you have this idea that... some people say it's a pretence that everyone is french and that racial differences should not be officially acknowledged. here in the uk they do. there are census which ask you what your ethnic minority is. put to you what nora hamadi, a journalist whose roots are in north africa, who holds workshops in the suburbs, says. "liberty, equality and fraternity — "they know this does not apply to them." colour—blindness in france is a problem. so there are two... first, i mean, the issue of inequality. france is probably the country with the least inequality of outcome. then when it comes about, the, what you're saying, the statistics, it is true that we are not computing the statistics. it's... we have this independent authority of protection of private life. my personal view, we need to have more transparency on this just because it will put a lot of pressure out of when we can deliberate, when we can have debate

about these things in a peaceful way, with data. you know, a lot of the myths that people are hearing will go away. yeah. 0k. so you say you don't have a problem. let's just look at your policing methods, because in 2022, 13 french people of african and north african origin were shot dead by police for a traffic offence compared to one in germany in the last decade and probably none in the uk in the last decade. there's only one death in police custody, which was very ambiguous. this is an indictment, and it goes against what you say that france does not have a problem with racism. again, it's not because i% may be racist that all of them are racist. i don't think that's true. and when they read it... 13 dead? when they read that... shot dead by the police for a traffic offence? when these things happen, the people are arrested,

whether they're policemen or ordinary citizen, they are arrested, investigated and judged. france is a state of law. and there is no complacency about this. i can perfectly assure you about that. but somebody can be shot dead forfailing... actually, what i should say is this — failing to comply with a traffic stop saw 13 people... no, no, no. ..dead last year. it's, as you very well know, zeinab, it's not about this. it's very... there's a huge frame about the use of weapons by the police. and it's not because you don't stop at a red light. there is a process. they have cameras. and if they have deviated, and it may be the case, i'm not the justice in the 13 cases you've mentioned, they are judged, they are put in jail, they are treated exactly, the policemen, exactly as in the other citizens. let me give you another statistic, then. how would you deal with this one? in france, a non—white male is 20 times more likely to be stopped by the police than a male in the uk, six times more likely. huge difference.

if you look at the... it depends what you mean by stopped or arrested. checked or... stopped, yeah, checked, you know. the police stop you. 20 times more likely if you're not white, in france. you cannot compare the uk and france on processes because in the uk you don't have... you were doing that a while ago in this interview, you were comparing the uk with france. but anyway. no, no, that's very different. what i'm saying is in france we've been looking at other countries who had issuesjust to see how they've done it, how they've assessed it, how they've restored order, and what lessons we can draw from what others have been doing. that's a positive comparison. all right. but, you know, it's not me who's putting these criticisms to you. the united nations human rights office based in geneva, a spokesperson said, and i quote, "france needs to address deep issues of racism "and discrimination in law enforcement." council of europe, independent human rights watchdog, not part of the eu, published a commission against racism

and intolerance injune 2022, highlighted little progress in france on curtailing the use of ethnic profiling by law enforcement officers. this is a bit awkward to push that forward and on the basis of a few cases, like you have highlighted yourself, 13 in a few years, saying that it's systemic. in one year, actually. but anyway, go on. it is not systemic. and i want to repeat it again and again. there is no systemic issue. when there is an issue, when there is a racism issue, people, whether they're citizens or policemen, arrested, investigated and jailed. if that's the case. 0k. not a race issue, you say, what about a law, a legal issue? because the 2017 law, not introduced by president macron's government, expanded the use of the potential for a policeman to use firearms, even if his or her life was not threatened. and this is something which the left—wing alliance

in parliament, the new alliance, say they want it repealed. they say it's a licence to kill. is the government looking to repeal this law? so let me talk about this new alliance. right? they've been blowing fire... never mind about them. i knew you would say that and try and vote. let me just ask you a very simple question, then. this 2017 law has been criticised, notjust by the left—wing alliance. is the government going to look at it and say perhaps it's too generous in its interpretation of when a police officer can use a firearm? there is no generosity of interpretation whatsoever. you've heard our interior minister this morning, gerald darmanin, saying... ..the police or the head of the police saying they were strengthening the use of cameras to make sure that things could be followed. let me tell you, i don't think this is the law. it's about the process. this process is being reviewed regularly. it will be reviewed again in the wake of this violence. but once again, i want to stress here, these violences are not a typical feature of my country.

and let me give you a couple of examples. there has been no... ..no decrease in the rate of tourism, no cancellation of tourism. people are coming. they haven't modified their trip. they know, and there are many tourists in paris and the rest of france now that in most of the country you are living a perfectly normal life. we have an issue with this area. we will address this issue. we will continue the work of the government. and this government is the first one who has actually seized the problem at its root, which is, as you rightly mentioned, education and integration... i don't know whether you have said at its roots. i just want to tell you very quickly a quote from sebastian roche, a french sociologist specialising in police practices, says there have been six times more fatal police shootings since the 2017 law than before, he says the law is the principal problem, so the solution must be to change it. ijust put to you again, i mean, there's a problem with this law. i would say something. perhaps there has been a rise in violence, perhaps there has been a rise in excess violence as well. i think, this time,

when we look specifically at this time, there has been this traumatic event with nahel. but in the three days where 700 policemen and firemen were injured, some of them gravely in hospital, 3,000 arrested, there has not been another terrible incident. all this has left president macron and his government very preoccupied domestically. i mean, we saw him at the end ofjune leave an eu summit in brussels early. it was discussing ukraine. he cancelled a visit to germany, which would have been the first state visit by a french leader in 23 years. we saw the official visit by king charles to france — would have been his first one as king — also cancelled. i mean, how far are you worried that this is going to lead toa diminution in his standing? it comes after the gilets jaunes in 2018 protests and also the ones that we saw this year about the pension reforms. this german state visit, which has been cancelled,

i went to participate in the event that the german president had kept following the cancellation. first, the german president completely understood the president. the french president talked to him. they had a discussion. not only did he understand, but we had a thorough discussion, the german president and myself, about what we are observing throughout democratic countries, western countries, i should say, which is effectively the rise of violence, and especially in very young people, who will have difficulties with their future, and how this is spreading through europe, not only continental, but europe, the us, and what can we do, we politicians, to actually unrail this, address it and make sure that it decreases? and i think we all have to work together on this because this is the future of our society. all right. so you don't accept that he is so preoccupied with what's going on in the country that he's...?

not at all. he was at the nato summit. everybody was. i was there. he was there early. they managed to put the communique and the french response was really high. he's made announcements. he's talked to everyone. and he also, if you allow me to add this, france has been at the forefront of the support to ukraine, including on enlarging the eu, to the surprise of some of our partners. let's pick up — you bring up enlarging the eu. where do you stand on this? because we have heard president macron in slovakia injune hint again at the previously raised idea of a multi—speed europe with some new countries. there are about eight countries, orten, including ukraine, who want to join. but he's suggesting that some countries could join with different status and rights rather than the ones that the historic members enjoy. is that something

which is going to be put on the table again? so it's quite different. it's just about... let me explain. being a bit more pragmatic, which i know may surprise coming from our country. but it is the case. the first and very important thing is that france has been the first country to really support ukraine's accession to the eu, and with ukraine, moldova, and with them saying we must not forget the western balkans. so the geopolitical situation, the rising tension across the globe, the security of the continent, the first step is enlarging the eu. all right. but could a multi—speed europe be on the table, because president macron's speech in slovakia injune hinted at this? what were his exact words? his exact words were that we have to review the policies of the eu, we have to review the budget, and we have to review the governance, which makes

sense. if you're 35, you don't do the same thing that if you're 27. and from there, we will look at all the options. i mean, people have discussed whether you have majority voting or whether you have unanimity and so on. but specifically, you know, this idea has been mooted before, that some countries have a more kind of advanced historic membership. and a lot of people don't like that the polish prime minister, for example, mateusz morawiecki, of course poland is a member of the eu, but he says we do not want a union of two speeds. we do not agree to europe being divided into better ones and worse ones, where stronger nations are favoured. that is not right. let me be very clear. the same president you are quoting has himself said, been saying, in a speech that i'm sure you have read... the prime minister, yeah. sorry, yes. the european commission had too many competences and he wanted to review that. he wants to review, not to expand it. he wants to review to bring it down. that is not what the french

president has said, but this is what the polish prime minister has said. can i just ask you very simply, then, could a multi—speed europe be on the table? it could be an option. all right. 0k. i want to also ask you something you have said when giorgia meloni in italy came to power, a far—right party, a lot of people were very, very concerned in october when she became prime minister. and you said, "we want to work with rome, but we will monitor "respect for rights and freedoms." giorgia meloni criticised this as "an unacceptable "threat of interference against a sovereign state, a member "of the european union." are you still standing by your words? yes, because this sentence has been cut. and i was saying, like we do for any single of the 27 countries of the eu, of the european union, as you very well know, every year, there is a report from the commission about the rule of law in every single of the member countries of the european union. and now we are working perfectly well with giorgia meloni and italy and her government on all the issues related to the european union and also on bilateral issues. as you know, we have a treaty

with them precisely to do that. you're saying, of course, everybody was worried when the brothers of italy came to power because, you know, the far—right bloc and so on and so forth. and how far is she going to be in hock to them? so it was said by you against that kind of background. it wasn'tjust a kind of matter of fact, business as usual, comment, was it? i'm certainly not a... i'm certainly not a far—right supporter and i'm not a very conservative right supporter either. we have political ideas now. we have some work to do with the eu. but, yeah, i'm not on this side of the political spectrum. all right. just going back quickly now to the position of president macron, you know, the fifth republic established by de gaulle in 1958 gave a lot of power to the french president, some at the expense of the legislature. you know, he's head of the armed forces, he can dissolve parliament, promulgate laws, even choose some members of the constitutional council

and all the rest of it. and some people are saying this smacks of authoritarianism and erodes democracy. fair comment? no. we saw how he used that law, didn't he, for the pension reforms? he rammed that through because he didn't have the majority. authoritarian? frankly, look at authoritarian countries in the world. right? the 49.3 is a constitutional instrument. by the way, it makes the parliament vote on the law. and if this does not go through, the government colla pses. so that is democracy, right? the government is kicked out if it doesn't get through. all right. 0k. you talked about how tourists are still visiting france and, you know, don'tjust look at the riots and stay away. and we know it's the top tourist destination in the world. and, you know, the riots have cost at least 650 million euros and still counting. you've got the rugby world cup this autumn. you've got the olympics next year. how confident are you, as part of the government, that you can deliver safe and secure games? very much so. we have started working on this about more than... i mean, i have seen it since i've joined the government,

which is more than a year ago. every week, there's a monitoring, there's security, everything is being put in place. i can assure you that it will be extremely secure and quite spectacular. all right, laurence boone, minister of europe for france, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. thank you, zeinab. hello.

thanks forjoining me. let's see what's happening on the weather front over the next ten days. and not an awful lot of change in the forecast. in fact, so farjuly has been relatively cool compared to june. it has certainly been a lot cooler right across the uk and the schematic shows what's been happening in thejet stream to the south of us which has allowed cool air to spread in from the north. balls of rain in places. some parts of the country have seen more than a month's worth of rainfall so far. while across a sunny, southern europe folks are enduring and intense heat wave and that is how it is going to stay for the foreseeable future. its focus on the heatwave. the temperatures will be pretty extreme. people be around tuesday across the central mediterranean, 46 celsius is not impossible and the bigger that here wave will be moving eastwards across the mediterranean and reaching greece by the end of the week and into the weekend. how does this compare to the records we have seen in recent years?

these temperatures are not unprecedented, the ones we are experiencing now, values average 47 celsius in the last couple of decades, but increase 48 degrees in athens, that is the official high, the maximum temperature reached on the european continent that was set in 1977. so don't think we will get those rallies across the central in this heatwave, but admitted here wears, 46, maybe 47, that is pretty extreme. let's look at the forecast for the early morning. rain spreading into western parts of the uk, the north and east, and also the southeast will wake to some sunshine. this area of low pressure moves in. it is quite a small area of low pressure but the rain will be relatively intense and quite persistent, particular from intense and quite persistent, particularfrom northern parts of wales through lancashire, the lake district, into southern parts of wales full top later in the day the weather will improve in northern ireland, there will be

some sunshine for where the cloud and rain is persistent will be a day, around 40 degrees also in some spots, warmer and sunny in the south around 23. tuesday night into wednesday the low pressure moves out of the way and the high does tend to build them. because of the shape of this area of high pressure the winds area of high pressure the winds are coming in out of the north—west so a relatively cool direction and any showers that develop will be across more northern and eastern areas of the uk. those temperatures, actually this is average for the time of year, around the high teens in north, 23 also in london. 0n high teens in north, 23 also in london. on thursday again, a relatively quiet day. there will be a fair amount of cloud spreading in on that north—westerly wind of the atlantic. places like scotland and northern ireland cloudy at times. the best of the somchai will be across central and southern areas of the uk. similar values as far as the temperature goes between 17 and 22 degrees. friday and then weekend turns unsettled. you

can see low pressure is lining up can see low pressure is lining up in the atlantic and pushing the weather fronts right across the weather fronts right across the uk stop at times it will be very blustery as well and relatively cool. let's have a look at the outlook, temperatures below the average for the time of year for some of us, down to 20 degrees in london. you can see a lot more rain icons than dry weather for the next few days. that's it from me. bye—bye.

live from london. live from london.

this is bbc news. extreme heat extreme heat intensifies in europe intensifies in europe as millions around the globe as millions around the globe face more record breaking face more record breaking temperatures temperatures and extreme weather. and extreme weather. the international community condems russia's decision to withdraw from the ukraine grain deal, raising fears over global food supplies. and the australian state of victoria cancels plans to host the 2026 commonwealth games. frankly, six to $7 billion for a 12—day sporting event, we're not doing that. that does not represent value for money. it's all cost and no benefit.