offer we are trying to reinvent the offer and i_ we are trying to reinvent the offer and i think— we are trying to reinvent the offer and i think in the past i have read the baroness's points on left behind people _ the baroness's points on left behind people and people who may not be engaging _ people and people who may not be engaging with the bbc at the level we would want them to be engaged. one of— we would want them to be engaged. one of the _ we would want them to be engaged. one of the ways of getting there is not a _ one of the ways of getting there is not a top _ one of the ways of getting there is not a top down, we think you will like this, — not a top down, we think you will like this, but a sort of knowledge of an— like this, but a sort of knowledge of an offer— like this, but a sort of knowledge of an offer that will through the algorithm is making come back for more _ algorithm is making come back for more that — algorithm is making come back for more. that is the sweeter way of doing _ more. that is the sweeter way of doing it — more. that is the sweeter way of doing it. however, underpinning all that must— doing it. however, underpinning all that must be the principles because if we get _ that must be the principles because if we get drawn intojust that must be the principles because if we get drawn into just a volume game, _ if we get drawn into just a volume game, then we are not the bbc that we are _ game, then we are not the bbc that we are for— game, then we are not the bbc that we are. for me, the funding, forgive me, we are. for me, the funding, forgive me. for— we are. for me, the funding, forgive me, for taking we are. for me, the funding, forgive me, fortaking a bit we are. for me, the funding, forgive me, for taking a bit of time, the me, fortaking a bit of time, the funding— me, for taking a bit of time, the funding follows what you are trying

to do _ funding follows what you are trying to do if— funding follows what you are trying to do. if what you plan to do is to remain— to do. if what you plan to do is to remain universal, so that everybody has something from this, then it follows— has something from this, then it follows that a funding model also has to— follows that a funding model also has to bring us together in some way rather— has to bring us together in some way rather than _ has to bring us together in some way rather than splitting us apart. i would — rather than splitting us apart. i would say— rather than splitting us apart. i would say let's do the function of the bbc, — would say let's do the function of the bbc, the way we see ourselves in the bbc, the way we see ourselves in the future, _ the bbc, the way we see ourselves in the future, which we will be coming back and _ the future, which we will be coming back and publicising and sharing with everybody. and then to see what niodel_ with everybody. and then to see what model and _ with everybody. and then to see what model and what level of finance that requires _ model and what level of finance that re . uires. ., , model and what level of finance that reauires. . , , ., model and what level of finance that reauires. ., , , ., . requires. certainly you are preaching _ requires. certainly you are preaching to _ requires. certainly you are preaching to the _ requires. certainly you are preaching to the acquire . requires. certainly you are| preaching to the acquire to requires. certainly you are - preaching to the acquire to this committee, we wanted in our report to encourage you to set out what that plan should be, in order to inform the funding discussions rather than the other way around. i am encouraged to hear that. can i

take it that you will be publishing a strategy or plan by christmas? yes. . . , . . a strategy or plan by christmas? yes. . . . . ., yes. fantastic. can i ask one clarifying _ yes. fantastic. can i ask one clarifying question _ yes. fantastic. can i ask one clarifying question and - yes. fantastic. can i ask one clarifying question and then l yes. fantastic. can i ask one i clarifying question and then my colleague is going to follow up on those points. it was probably at the royal television society in the autumn last year, you talked about the bbc becoming a digitally layered public service media company. i would say that is a subtly different role than it may be the bbc of a hundred years ago. and yet you haven't used any of those words in the last five minutes. i wonder if you could join up that big vision speech you gave nearly a year ago with what you have described which sounds a bit more tactical. that seech sounds a bit more tactical. that speech was _ sounds a bit more tactical. that speech was broadly _ sounds a bit more tactical. twat speech was broadly that we do not

look backward as public service broadcasters, and i say that as plural looking at the market, and almost entrenching into this, and this is such a difficult game. i do enjoy it but it is a really difficult game in terms of how we ensure we bring people along but also repurchasing an organisation whose funding has been cut by 30% in the previous decade and now another 400 million based on inflation. we have big questions, how do you do that unlimited funding? i think we are pulling it off. what i was trying to do there, and i forgive the language not being there, it is utterly linked, which is what i was trying to say was the purposes, and i think we need to do more on this, what has happened in the intervening months as we begin to see how technology is both a threat but a huge opportunity in terms of what that digitally led organisation is.

we do not have to chase the market, we can choose to use ai we do not have to chase the market, we can choose to use aland algorithms and look at verification, look at what we did on the story with the greek migrant boat with new technology and fantastic rmd capability to understand what is going on in this story. that is a digitally led organisation but it is working against its purposes. what i was trying to do in that speech was try to jolt us all and say look, over time, try to jolt us all and say look, overtime, i knowl try to jolt us all and say look, over time, i know i spoke to people slightly on the digital switchover site, overtime slightly on the digital switchover site, over time people are moving to an on demand media habits. i think 65 - an on demand media habits. i think 65 — 74—year—olds main source of news is online. main source of local news is online. main source of local news is online. we are moving. i wanted to make sure the bbc is not

confusing its purposes with the means of delivery, and having an organisation that is there it set up to fill broadcast slots. what we will set out in the autumn is linked to that. i take the point on the language, we have to make sure that bridge is clear. language, we have to make sure that bridge is clear-— bridge is clear. thank you. lord foster. bridge is clear. thank you. lord foster- it _ bridge is clear. thank you. lord foster. it is _ bridge is clear. thank you. lord foster. it is perfectly _ bridge is clear. thank you. lord foster. it is perfectly possible l bridge is clear. thank you. lord | foster. it is perfectly possible to consider funding _ foster. it is perfectly possible to consider funding models - foster. it is perfectly possible to consider funding models without having _ consider funding models without having decided what the bbc is for and any— having decided what the bbc is for and any sense our report did that because — and any sense our report did that because we did look and say that basically— because we did look and say that basically i — because we did look and say that basically i saw the advertising nrodel— basically i saw the advertising model would not work, wouldn't bring in enough _ model would not work, wouldn't bring in enough money. we said that subscription was not really viable and it _ subscription was not really viable and it leads to access problems for people. _ and it leads to access problems for people, but a fundamental point was, as has— people, but a fundamental point was, as has treen— people, but a fundamental point was, as has been said, very clear, that if you _ as has been said, very clear, that if you are — as has been said, very clear, that if you are going to make final decisions, _ if you are going to make final decisions, you need to be absolutely clear. _ decisions, you need to be absolutely clear. not— decisions, you need to be absolutely clear, not only what the bbc is for but also _ clear, not only what the bbc is for but also how it is going to deliver that vision — but also how it is going to deliver that vision. and you have been very clear— that vision. and you have been very clear that _ that vision. and you have been very clear that you are going to work on

that, _ clear that you are going to work on that, i_ clear that you are going to work on that, ithink— clear that you are going to work on that, i think i would share a degree of disappointment that we are having to wait— of disappointment that we are having to wait so— of disappointment that we are having to wait so long for it but you have explained — to wait so long for it but you have explained the other pressures you are under — explained the other pressures you are under. my first very quick question— are under. my first very quick question is given all these media stories— question is given all these media stories that the government is going to conduct— stories that the government is going to conduct their own review into funding, — to conduct their own review into funding, do you think they should be advised _ funding, do you think they should be advised to— funding, do you think they should be advised to wait until after your report— advised to wait until after your report has been produced? not necessarily _ report has been produced? iirrt necessarily because i think this work is going to take some time. i don't think we are unclear about what... it is a bit like you are saying about your report, which i think there are some things and it relates to the chair�*s point about the overall purposes of the bbc, which mean you may be debating funding levels to a point, but you cannot break the funding mechanic

from the editorial vision of a organisation. advertising lead in a different direction and subscription needs in a different direction. we have said outside clear principles which may or may not have seen in terms of what we see as a funding mechanic in any circumstances has to deliver. does it deliver the mission of the bbc? we have a mission through our charter. does it deliver that? does it safeguard our impartiality independence as some funding models do not do that. does it provide a sustainable financial model? we have seen around the world, and i really think one of the things most people should do is go and have a look at public service broadcasters and travel outside the uk and see how precious what we have is and how fragile public service broadcasting is and free media around the world. with respect, we are in our bubble. we have got major problems around the world in terms of the free press and public service

media. does it provide a sustainable public service model? because you cannot plan yet year navigating the changes. does it help the creative economy grow? i have always been clear in myjob that i am not here to defend the bbc fully as an institution, that is not my sole job. myjob is to grow the creative industries, i am fiercely passionate about this. the bbc has to be part of a commercial thriving sector. if you talk to most of the commercial businesses, they see us as accretive to their businesses. not everyone. but overall we should be celebrating a wonderful sector that has outstripped the market, pulling jobs, and it is because we have a curious and wonderful blend of public intervention and private enterprise. any solution has to do that. the last is, does it deliver fair value for audiences? that. the last is, does it deliver fairvalue foraudiences? myjob that. the last is, does it deliver fair value for audiences? myjob is not to get the license be as high as

possible, it is to make sure we get the support for it and people want to pay it and think it is great value. i think that construct, with respect, will hold regardless of where we end up, in terms of where we focus this institution and i don't want to stop the work going on, and i think you proved in your analysis you could begin to fence out some of those arguments while we do our work. to reinforce, we have a good strategy in the bbc around value for all and you can track as against it, we are delivering pretty well versus competition in terms of the share of iplayer, a competitive performance on commercial. we are doing pretty well, we have got some threats like every media player. this is not a situation where we are on our knees. it is not simply we have had a bit of chopped and delayed doing this, we also want to get it right and take our time and set a proper course. it is very

important. set a proper course. it is very important-— set a proper course. it is very imortant. . , , , ., important. can i 'ust pursue one asect, important. can i 'ust pursue one aspect. and — important. can i 'ust pursue one aspect, and that— important. can ijust pursue one aspect, and that is _ important. can ijust pursue one aspect, and that is very - important. can ijust pursue one aspect, and that is very helpful. | aspect, and that is very helpful. one of— aspect, and that is very helpful. one of those was a fair value for audiences— one of those was a fair value for audiences and the question is who is your audience? and whether it is universal— your audience? and whether it is universal and so on. you may well recall— universal and so on. you may well recall that — universal and so on. you may well recall that when you last came before — recall that when you last came before us, _ recall that when you last came before us, we explored with you the whole _ before us, we explored with you the whole issue — before us, we explored with you the whole issue of universality and what it meant _ whole issue of universality and what it meant. you yourself emitted that you could _ it meant. you yourself emitted that you could probably go away and worked — you could probably go away and worked on your answer. you had over a year. _ worked on your answer. you had over a year. i_ worked on your answer. you had over a year, i wonder what your answer is now _ a year, i wonder what your answer is now i— a year, i wonder what your answer is now. ., u, , a year, i wonder what your answer is now. ., . . , . now. i do recall very well that vo ace now. i do recall very well that voyage into — now. i do recall very well that voyage into the _ now. i do recall very well that voyage into the topic - now. i do recall very well that voyage into the topic of - voyage into the topic of universality and its semantic challenges it provides. we have done some work and we think our definition of universality means that the work you are doing passes three thresholds. it is not single, it is not singular. let me explain.

we think those three things are it must be relevant to all audiences, the work you create, notjust the wealthy. there is a big thing here, which is notjust even before you start to measure what you are doing, what is your intent? are you trying to bring people in or are you trying to bring people in or are you trying to monetise an audience? part of universality is the editorial desire to be relevant to everybody. the second thing is are you accessible? can people get hold of your outfit and making sure everyone can access the bbc. we do not want to be closed off to individuals who, by definition, are cut away by the bbc and cannot get hold of it. that universal broadcast coverage is critical and we could talk, it would be a useful conversation to have around digital access and arable in that because i am worried about that

in terms of us moving through the next few years. the last thing is it is not enough in our views, that we make enough and are accessible but we are not being used or regularly engaging our audiences. we are not being used or regularly engaging ouraudiences. i we are not being used or regularly engaging our audiences. i think that lets us off the hook and doesn't allow us to deliver that value. a third test in universality is are regularly reaching and engaging everyone in the uk with our services. at the moment, seven out of ten adults are using us daily, nine out of ten are using us weekly and 96% are using us every month and i can tell you, i look at those numbers weekly with the board, assessing how we are doing because that at the end of the day is where the action is. that at the end of the day is where the action is— the action is. thank you, i would love to pursue — the action is. thank you, i would love to pursue more _ the action is. thank you, i would love to pursue more but - the action is. thank you, i would love to pursue more but i - the action is. thank you, i would love to pursue more but i know. the action is. thank you, i would - love to pursue more but i know other colleagues _ love to pursue more but i know other colleagues wanted to come in. i suspect— colleagues wanted to come in. i suspect baroness fraser might pursue your relevant to everyone claim. but that is _ your relevant to everyone claim. but that is for— your relevant to everyone claim. but that is for her later.—

your relevant to everyone claim. but that is for her later._ i - that is for her later. thank you. i aware the _ that is for her later. thank you. i aware the catch _ that is for her later. thank you. i aware the catch you, _ that is for her later. thank you. i i aware the catch you, unforeseeable for you _ aware the catch you, unforeseeable for you or _ aware the catch you, unforeseeable for you or us, — aware the catch you, unforeseeable for you or us, at _ aware the catch you, unforeseeable foryou or us, at a _ aware the catch you, unforeseeable for you or us, at a time _ aware the catch you, unforeseeable for you or us, at a time when - aware the catch you, unforeseeable for you or us, at a time when you i for you or us, at a time when you are reeling — for you or us, at a time when you are reeling with _ for you or us, at a time when you are reeling with stuff— for you or us, at a time when you are reeling with stuff that - for you or us, at a time when you are reeling with stuff that has - for you or us, at a time when you l are reeling with stuff that has been thrown _ are reeling with stuff that has been thrown at _ are reeling with stuff that has been thrown at you — are reeling with stuff that has been thrown at you and _ are reeling with stuff that has been thrown at you and you _ are reeling with stuff that has been thrown at you and you have - are reeling with stuff that has been thrown at you and you have to - are reeling with stuff that has beenj thrown at you and you have to cope the best— thrown at you and you have to cope the best you — thrown at you and you have to cope the best you can _ thrown at you and you have to cope the best you can. and _ thrown at you and you have to cope the best you can. and you - thrown at you and you have to cope the best you can. and you are - thrown at you and you have to copel the best you can. and you are facing the best you can. and you are facing the expectations— the best you can. and you are facing the expectations of— the best you can. and you are facing the expectations of a _ the best you can. and you are facing the expectations of a committee - the best you can. and you are facing| the expectations of a committee like this that _ the expectations of a committee like this that has — the expectations of a committee like this that has challenged _ the expectations of a committee like this that has challenged you - the expectations of a committee like this that has challenged you to - this that has challenged you to embrace — this that has challenged you to embrace the _ this that has challenged you to embrace the future, _ this that has challenged you to embrace the future, to - this that has challenged you to embrace the future, to be - this that has challenged you to embrace the future, to be on i this that has challenged you to . embrace the future, to be on the front— embrace the future, to be on the front foot, — embrace the future, to be on the front foot, to _ embrace the future, to be on the front foot, to have _ embrace the future, to be on the front foot, to have a _ embrace the future, to be on the front foot, to have a vision - embrace the future, to be on the front foot, to have a vision and l embrace the future, to be on the l front foot, to have a vision and go for it. _ front foot, to have a vision and go for it. and — front foot, to have a vision and go for it. and i— front foot, to have a vision and go for it, and i feel— front foot, to have a vision and go for it, and i feel like _ front foot, to have a vision and go for it, and i feel like i— front foot, to have a vision and go for it, and i feel like i want - front foot, to have a vision and go for it, and i feel like i want to- for it, and i feel like i want to commend _ for it, and i feel like i want to commend what _ for it, and i feel like i want to commend what i _ for it, and i feel like i want to commend what i have - for it, and i feel like i want to commend what i have heard. for it, and i feel like i want to. commend what i have heard so for it, and i feel like i want to- commend what i have heard so far. my question— commend what i have heard so far. my question is— commend what i have heard so far. my question is simply— commend what i have heard so far. my question is simply that _ commend what i have heard so far. my question is simply that i _ commend what i have heard so far. my question is simply that i would - commend what i have heard so far. my question is simply that i would like - question is simply that i would like to hear— question is simply that i would like to hear the — question is simply that i would like to hear the third _ question is simply that i would like to hear the third voice. _ question is simply that i would like to hear the third voice. she - question is simply that i would like to hear the third voice. she has - to hear the third voice. she has been _ to hear the third voice. she has been mentioned _ to hear the third voice. she has been mentioned in— to hear the third voice. she has been mentioned in dispatches i to hear the third voice. she has - been mentioned in dispatches once but i been mentioned in dispatches once but i wondered _ been mentioned in dispatches once but i wondered if— been mentioned in dispatches once but i wondered if she _ been mentioned in dispatches once but i wondered if she would - been mentioned in dispatches once but i wondered if she would like . been mentioned in dispatches once but i wondered if she would like to| but i wondered if she would like to add from _ but i wondered if she would like to add from her— but i wondered if she would like to add from her point _ but i wondered if she would like to add from her point of— but i wondered if she would like to add from her point of view - but i wondered if she would like to add from her point of view as - but i wondered if she would like to add from her point of view as a - add from her point of view as a director— add from her point of view as a director of— add from her point of view as a director of policy— add from her point of view as a director of policy and _ add from her point of view as a director of policy and think- add from her point of view as a director of policy and think to i add from her point of view as a - director of policy and think to what we have _ director of policy and think to what we have heard _ director of policy and think to what we have heard so _ director of policy and think to what we have heard so far. _ director of policy and think to what we have heard so far.— we have heard so far. thank you, i thinkl we have heard so far. thank you, i think i would _ we have heard so far. thank you, i think i would like _ we have heard so far. thank you, i think i would like to _ we have heard so far. thank you, i think i would like to echo - we have heard so far. thank you, i think i would like to echo that -

think i would like to echo that strategically we are focusing on how do we evolve the bbc and one of the things that are striking when you talk to european public service broadcasters is that of course the bbc is the only psp that operates globally, nationally across the uk and locally. therefore we have quite and locally. therefore we have quite a special place in the heart of the uk posse through the world service, and some of the great british content we export in the world itself. if i may say so, the eyes of the european broadcasting union and other psp format are on us, but in terms of the approach we are taking, we're looking at those five tests tim set out and we are going back to some of the previous work we had done around over 75 is, where we looked at three main areas which reflect what we are talking about. when you think about fairness there are several elements to that among its value, which is at the core of the bbc strategy. the second, and

the bbc strategy. the second, and the committee have very helpful insight on, is the licence fee regressive tasks, should we do more on progression, are there things which look at supporting lower incomes? at the moment on over 75 four, we support over many households, to a combination of being linked to credit and designated care homes. there are some precedents for these things. interestingly, when you look at places like germany or even some of the other countries, most countries operate a flat fee. they are not really progressive unless you are linked to taxation or in the case of finland, as you know, a personal levy. the other thing we have to do in this debate sets best in a uk cultural context. the other issues we are looking at is the financial scale that tim talked about and some of these models increase the numbers of these models increase the numbers of households, universal levy potentially increases the number of households and other models

potentially change that picture. and finally, how do we operationalise these things? how do we put independence at the heart of the bbc but also how do we do this any feasible way? when we looked at the over 75 iss, that took us over two years to move around 4 million people from one system to another. we did that quite successfully and we moved nine out of ten people over that period and that was during covid, so that was quite a difficult period for the bbc. the other key element in this debate going forward as the government will do their review, which we will welcome and will engage with, it is perfectly possible that as part of that process or indeed on our own, the bbc, and i think you are challenging us to think about this, will need to put what we think and the assessment of work we have done. i've not got a timetable for that today and you can see the structure that probably the strategy would come first, but we are highly conscious that is what we have to do. there is a third,

possibly the most important element of this, which is the role of the public in our audiences. in all of the consultations around the bbc, they have always attracted over hundred thousand people so the last charter review from the government, i think the figure was hundred and 90,000. when the bbc consulted on over 75, 90,000. when the bbc consulted on over75, it 90,000. when the bbc consulted on over 75, it was hundred and 90,000. people care deeply about these things and we will need the public to inform us and what they think about the role of the bbc going for it and how it should be funded. ultimately this decision will rest with government and parliamentarians, and we are not saying, for example, we do not think we should have a careful look at the licence fee, just like the history of how the bbc has changed, the licence fee has changed with technology. most recently by 2016 with the iplayer and ensuring that was part of what your licence fee paid for. nothing is in aspic but all options need to be on the table,

including looking at the current one and including looking at radical things as well. we are open for that and doing detailed work. we are not in a position to show that, but as i am sure you can appreciate, that is partly because we want to look at this from all the angles. thank you for the opportunity. b5 this from all the angles. thank you for the opportunity.— for the opportunity. as in over 75-year-old. _ for the opportunity. as in over 75-year-old. l— for the opportunity. as in over 75-year-old, i thought - for the opportunity. as in over 75-year-old, i thought i - for the opportunity. as in over i 75-year-old, i thought i needed for the opportunity. as in over - 75-year-old, i thought i needed to 75—year—old, i thought i needed to hear what — 75—year—old, i thought i needed to hear what he — 75—year—old, i thought i needed to hear what he would _ 75—year—old, i thought i needed to hear what he would say. _ 75—year—old, i thought i needed to hear what he would say. i- 75-year-old, i thought i needed to hear what he would say.— 75-year-old, i thought i needed to hear what he would say. i 'ust think that we have — hear what he would say. i 'ust think that we have all h hear what he would say. i 'ust think that we have all come _ hear what he would say. i 'ust think that we have all come all h hear what he would say. ijust think that we have all come all of - hear what he would say. ijust think that we have all come all of us - that we have all come all of us together have got to get this right. that is a platitude but let me just stay with it for a moment. we are going to project a form of bbc and a funding model for ten years, from april 2028. funding model for ten years, from april2028. in funding model for ten years, from april 2028. in view of the acceleration of change within our whole world, in fact i would almost

say a new industrial revolution that is on us, we have got to be as open—minded and intelligent and ambitious as we can be in order to put something in place in 2028 which will be flexible enough, open—ended enough, and interesting enough to take us through massive, massive change such as perhaps we haven't seenin change such as perhaps we haven't seen in our lifetime, although bullying my age, i think i have seen enormous change. —— being my age. this one is something of a different order. we have to get it right. i welcome everything you have done. you set out options for the public, i am glad the government is going to have a look again. i hope the public will take an interest, i hope there

is pressure groups will take an interest, i hope together we can come to a conclusion about what we want and how we are going to pay for it. ok, i'm going to move on but i know you have an opportunity to raise a question under the next... to want to hold it back? ibis. question under the next... to want to hold it back? no, because it relates to — to want to hold it back? no, because it relates to the _ to want to hold it back? no, because it relates to the statistics. _ to want to hold it back? no, because it relates to the statistics. you - it relates to the statistics. you gave _ it relates to the statistics. you gave us — it relates to the statistics. you gave us but you don't break it down into age _ gave us but you don't break it down into age demographics. do we think the younger generation, as we know, is key? _ the younger generation, as we know, is key? i_ the younger generation, as we know, is key? i am — the younger generation, as we know, is key? i am sure you have got those statistics~ _ is key? i am sure you have got those statistics. . ~' , ., is key? i am sure you have got those statistics. ., ,, , ., ., statistics. thank you for the question. — statistics. thank you for the question, the _ statistics. thank you for the question, the statistics - statistics. thank you for the question, the statistics thatj statistics. thank you for the l question, the statistics that i statistics. thank you for the - question, the statistics that i have given you is 95% of all adults and we bobbed around between 85. that number is not a massively lower amongst 16—34 —year—olds and young people, in terms of their overall reach once a month or a week to the bbc. because they will come in for

eurovision and a tennis match. the challenge for us management speak is habitual usage. how many times they are coming in a week and how many hours, we are definitely hitting them. we have the biggest revision service in the uk, it has had a very good couple of months. are reluctant to habitual users? i am hopeful many of you around the committee room have your habitual usage of something, whatever weight your pleasure is, however you are inclined. that is what locks value for the licence fee in. being very direct with you, the biggest challenge is making sure habitual usage is locked in. i think over time, we may have less time because thatis time, we may have less time because that is inevitable when there is infinite choice. 0ur importance is going to be as high as ever to know where the truth is, to understand

the what the community is doing as a whole, to get your local news, and i am optimistic that so—called young people will want that as well, and what we do need to do is make sure one of the biggest challenges, what we need to be clear about is how we get the capital and write funding to ensure we are defying gravity at the moment in terms of the outstanding work of people delivering the iplayer. we are in the game with massive us companies, with huge battles for engineering talent, for coding talent, i am paying significant discounts and that is sensitive even in itself. how do we ensure we are competitive in terms of digital product development, and all of that, so we can push through the wonders we do into that system? we have done a pretty good job but i think thejeopardy is we have done a pretty good job but i think the jeopardy is quite high and that relates to the strategy as well in terms of what we need to do to make sure products like iplayer and

various things are still in the game in ten years' time. {lilia various things are still in the game in ten years' time.— various things are still in the game in ten years' time. 0k, we are going to move on — in ten years' time. 0k, we are going to move on to _ in ten years' time. 0k, we are going to move on to some _ in ten years' time. 0k, we are going to move on to some of _ in ten years' time. 0k, we are going to move on to some of the - in ten years' time. 0k, we are going to move on to some of the more - to move on to some of the more contemporary decisions and challenges you face anyway. lord bishop? challenges you face anyway. lord bisho - ? ., , challenges you face anyway. lord bisho - ? . , ,., bishop? there have been some interesting _ bishop? there have been some interesting uses _ bishop? there have been some interesting uses of _ bishop? there have been some interesting uses of language, i bishop? there have been some i interesting uses of language, the new industrial revolution. i endorse this _ new industrial revolution. i endorse this the _ new industrial revolution. i endorse this. the thing about revolutions as they are _ this. the thing about revolutions as they are a _ this. the thing about revolutions as they are a process rather thanjust an event, — they are a process rather thanjust an event, and this means not everyone _ an event, and this means not everyone moves at the same pace. we have heard — everyone moves at the same pace. we have heard about fair value for audiences, without specifically saying — audiences, without specifically saying which audiences. one of the things— saying which audiences. one of the things that — saying which audiences. one of the things that you are facing in the bbc with— things that you are facing in the bbc with funding challenges and choices— bbc with funding challenges and choices such as digital first, which makes _ choices such as digital first, which makes perfect sense, is what about those _ makes perfect sense, is what about those audiences that are not moving at the _ those audiences that are not moving at the same — those audiences that are not moving at the same pace, the linear

audiences? fairvalue simply at the same pace, the linear audiences? fair value simply means we tick— audiences? fair value simply means we tick a _ audiences? fair value simply means we tick a box for the luddites, we have _ we tick a box for the luddites, we have got— we tick a box for the luddites, we have got to — we tick a box for the luddites, we have got to keep them on sight somehow, ratherthan have got to keep them on sight somehow, rather than that being substantial value in the broadcasting that you do, and secondly— broadcasting that you do, and secondly perhaps touching on what we may follow _ secondly perhaps touching on what we may follow up on the local radio,, you talked — may follow up on the local radio,, you talked about universality, but one of— you talked about universality, but one of the — you talked about universality, but one of the things we discovered during _ one of the things we discovered during covid was the importance of the local _ during covid was the importance of the local it — during covid was the importance of the local. it seems to me there might— the local. it seems to me there might be — the local. it seems to me there might be attention here in the direction — might be attention here in the direction of travel and in respect of your— direction of travel and in respect of your policy, your strategy, and what _ of your policy, your strategy, and what is _ of your policy, your strategy, and what is happening in wider society in relation — what is happening in wider society in relation to community. i wonder if especially — in relation to community. i wonder if especially mrs sumner and mr davey. — if especially mrs sumner and mr davey. if— if especially mrs sumner and mr davey, if you could respond to that. in davey, if you could respond to that. in terms— davey, if you could respond to that. in terms of— davey, if you could respond to that. in terms of the first points... studio: you join us here on bbc news. this sp bbc�*s top management,

namely director—general tim davie, the acting chairwoman and the policy director who are facing questions in parliament, primarily about the corporation's governance in relation to last week's controversy and those headlines concerning allegations against presenter hugh edwards, but also facing questions about the future funding of the bbc. do they know who their audience are? are they delivering? let us talk to stewart purvis, who is a former chief executive of itn hello. you have been following this along with myself, let's start with that first point and that is questions of governance of the bbc. i point and that is questions of governance of the bbc. i think it was very direct _ governance of the bbc. i think it was very direct anyway, - governance of the bbc. i think it was very direct anyway, which i governance of the bbc. i think it l was very direct anyway, which was basically asking the acting chair whether she had any role in the way the bbc management conducted itself

over the allegations made in the huw edwards affair and what she said was no, nobody seemed very interested in what i said. i think that missed the point and that is what the chair of the committee pointed out, should you not have been more visible when the story broke, that there was a role for the board and the board was acting on the behalf of the licence fee peer and not leaving it to the management? there is an issue there of what is the point of the bbc board at moments like this. also, in terms of reports _ board at moments like this. also, in terms of reports on _ board at moments like this. also, in terms of reports on current - board at moments like this. also, in terms of reports on current bbc- board at moments like this. also, in | terms of reports on current bbc work or activity, terms of reports on current bbc work oractivity, on terms of reports on current bbc work or activity, on the scandal itself, one of the points that was raised by tim davie, or one of the pieces of work as it was described, the first thing was i believe it was a fact—finding investigation, there was a view of protocols and procedures and also a quick look at a red flag in terms of consistency in the way the investigation was carried out and the procedures were

carried out and the procedures were carried out. tim davie did make the point that some of that work is as you would expect in an organisation such as the bbc and others. you have been high—level management at itm, would anything have been done differently? itihl would anything have been done differently?— would anything have been done differentl ? ., ., ., , differently? itn did not and does not receive _ differently? itn did not and does not receive any _ differently? itn did not and does not receive any where _ differently? itn did not and does not receive any where near- differently? itn did not and does not receive any where near as . differently? itn did not and does i not receive any where near as many complaints as the bbc does, simply because of the scale and reach of the bbc. but the principle is the same, how does a complaint which raises significant issues get raised when the people who field the initial complaint up to the top of the organisation. that's why i can see tim davie does not want to wait two or three months to hear the answer, he wants an answer more quickly, just in case something else happens in the meantime. he wants to be clear that the people getting the first set of the complaints realises what he needs to know very soon. what you make of the timings? for some of it, we do not know but there was a hint we could see the best

outcome of some of these investigations come autumn, does that sound right to you?— that sound right to you? yeah, i have to say _ that sound right to you? yeah, i have to say dealing _ that sound right to you? yeah, i have to say dealing with - that sound right to you? yeah, i have to say dealing with large . have to say dealing with large corporations and the government, i am never sure autumn ends and begins, but it would have to be done by the end of the year, but exactly when i am sure the director—general doesn't want to pin himself down on unprecedented high himself down that. , w' , doesn't want to pin himself down on that. , w' , doesn't want to pin himself down on doesn't want to pin himself down on that. , , that. 0k, very quickly, people will be concerned _ that. , , that. 0k, very quickly, people will be concerned it _ that. 0k, very quickly, people will be concerned it is _ that. 0k, very quickly, people will be concerned it is their _ doesn't want to pin himself down on that-_ is their _ that. 0k, very quickly, people will be concerned it is their bbc - that. 0k, very quickly, people will be concerned it is their bbc and i be concerned it is their bbc and this is what they pay for. as it doesn't want to pin himself down on that._ is their ssc - doesn't want to pin himself down on that._ is their bbc and - be concerned it is their bbc and this is what they pay for. as it stands and in terms of what you have stands and in terms of have heard, the funding, we did hear that stands and in terms of what you have heard, the funding, we did hear that there was a distinction in terms of there was a distinction there was a distinction in terms of the purpose of the bbc and a heard, the funding, we did hear that the purpose distinction heard, the funding, we did hear that the purpose of tinction heard, the funding, we did hear that the purpose of the :ion heard, the funding, we did hear that the purpose of the bbc and a reinvention versus the reinvention reinvention versus the reinvention of this model in order to meet the of this the of this model in order to meet the local audience, what sort of shape local audience, what sort of shape do you think the bbc is in? do they do you think the bbc is in? know their audience and are they local audience, what sort of shape do you thir audiencei is in? local audience, what sort of shape do you thir audience and 1? local audience, what sort of shape do you thir audience and are they meeting all sections of society? know their audience and are they meeting all sections of society? there was a lot ofjargon talk. there was a lot ofjargon talk. let's remind ourselves, the bbc let's remind ourselves, the bbc charter has for years to run, so in charter has for years to run, so in

2028 there will be a new charter, 2028 there will be a new charter, what do we want the bbc to be in to be in 2028? tim davie is saying we're what do we want the bbc to be in 2028? tim davie is saying we're going to continue, the committee and the comments and say this is what the comments and say this is what the bbc thinks and people are asking, what rights and to read the licence payer get in that? starting probably before that is the process of how the licence fee is paid. there seems to be a common feeling that the way we play at the moment, which we all pay the same, is it right. that should be some way of people who are wealthy are paying more than people who are not wealthy. that is an issue that has to be resolved. taste wealthy. that is an issue that has to be resolved.— wealthy. that is an issue that has to be resolved. we were expecting some of the _ to be resolved. we were expecting some of the salaries _ to be resolved. we were expecting some of the salaries at _ to be resolved. we were expecting some of the salaries at the - to be resolved. we were expecting some of the salaries at the bbc. to be resolved. we were expecting some of the salaries at the bbc to | some of the salaries at the bbc to be raised but they weren't as far as we dipped in. this is bbc news. meat this is bbc news - nex- . , this is bbc news — the headlines...