my guest is france's europe minister, laurence boone. does president macron have a strategy to heal the rifts in france, and to what extent have they diminished his global standing? minister laurence boone, welcome to hardtalk. thank you, zeinab. why have the authorities decided to ban the use of fireworks during thejuly 14th bastille day celebrations this year? so, you know, after the riots last week, things have calmed down.

it has been a huge drama and obviously people were really moved. and there's also been some riot that are absolutely unacceptable. the tension has softened and it's gone away and we think the situation is under control. but usually bastille day is the opportunity of fireworks, celebration and sometimes obviously some incidents. so, given how close we are to the time of the riots, it was better to calm things down and avoid this. as well, you know, in some areas of france, there has been drought, and with fireworks, we better be careful. all right. does the government have a clear strategy to deal with this latest crisis? yeah, very much so. i mean, as you know, this is not a french specificity. it happened here in the uk exactly a year before the olympic games as well. it happened in sweden. it happened in denmark. there are pockets of

inequalities in our society with difficult situation. and when there is a drama such as the death of nahel, then things erupt. now there are three times. there has been a time for emotion and obviously to mourn the death of nehal. there is a time for calming things down and a time forjustice, and there is the time for more structural measures, which is coming along. would you describe what's been happening in france as pockets of problems? it sounds like you're minimising a problem which is actually much more substantial than that and really warrants a clear, long—term strategy. and i put it to you that your government does not have that. no, i am not trying to minimise it. i'm trying to be very factual. it is true that the images that you've seen of tv have been in circumscribed area, but throughout the territory.

they are areas where there is more social inequality than in others, where the government actually has been putting a lot of effort over the last six years in terms of money for urban planning, in terms of public services, in terms of support to families and kids. it's obviously not enough, we have to go further, but it is not a widespread movement across france, and most of france is actually quiet and calm. 0k. a lot of the focus is on the banlieues, the suburbs, and the poorest neighbourhoods where about five million immigrants and many more of their descendants live. it is very clear that there is rampant poverty there. 57% of the population live in poverty compared to 21% in the population at large. and this is a very specific problem which successive french governments

have failed to tackle. unemployment is so much higher in these neighbourhoods. so, there are things which are exactly what you have said, like youth unemployment is higher in this area and we need to absolutely address that. there's been a lot of measures to favour entrepreneurship, to boost entrepreneurship in these area. it's quite the case that when people succeed, they leave, but we are still trying to help those people succeed. that's true. one thing which is, i think not quite exact is, you know, 90% of the people who have been arrested are french. they are not foreigners. isaid immigrants and their descendants. i didn't say that they were immigrants. the original immigrants who came from north africa, and i'm making it very clear that we're talking about third— and fourth—generation french people whose roots may have been in north africa. i put to you what former president francois hollande said. you were an adviser to him. president macron was also

a ministerfor him. in 2017, president macron commissioned the banlieues report, which was looking into what to do about the banlieues. recommended that 48 billion euros be invested in infrastructure in these neighbourhoods. former president hollande says it was abandoned. he says under macron, urban regeneration has been limited to just the renovation of a few certain sites. what you are not doing is investing in people. you don't have enough teachers who are properly trained. you don't have enough educational resources, training forjobs and so on. that's where your government is lacking. no, i cannot let you say that, for a couple of reasons. the first one is, as you very rightly said earlier, this has been a long—term problem. and where president macron stepped in, it was not only about money. i think a lot of the solution in the past have been focusing on money, but we have been doing

a lot more than that. i'll give you some examples. we have put in place public service houses, 460 of them, modelled on the canada house of servicing. so, they help people, a bit like what the uk government did following the 2011 riots, they help people with the police, with the school, with healthcare, with all social venues, with holidays for the kids. we have been training a lot of these people. apprenticeship in france has been rising superfast over the past six years. it is a deeply entrenched problem which we are solving little by little. it's not only about money. i think we need to be very clear about this. yeah, but it's not only about money. let me tell you what emile chabal, who's currently at edinburgh university, says. he says a feeling... there is a feeling that there has been a form of window—dressing — buildings, fancy buildings, shiny trams that have brought no real results, nor tackled structural issues that residents face every day,

eg, racism and access to the labour market. so, there is no systemic racism in france. i think we also need to be very clear about this. that is not true. simply. there are social... why is it not true? because you will find some people sometimes being racist, but the vast majority of the population is not. we have a third of the population who's from different accents are not necessarily french. we are a mixed, diverse society, living together side by side in a very good way. i invite you to come to... i've been to france many times, but that's the thing. do you actually count who your ethnic minorities are in france? because that's. .. you've been citing britain, but that's a big difference between the uk and france. in france, you have this idea that... some people say it's a pretence that everyone is french and that racial differences should not be officially acknowledged. here in the uk they do. there are census which ask

you what your ethnic minority is. put to you what nora hamadi, a journalist whose roots are in north africa, who holds workshops in the suburbs, says. "liberty, equality and fraternity — "they know this does not apply to them." colour—blindness in france is a problem. so, there are two... first, i mean, the issue of inequality. france is probably the country with the least inequality of outcome. then when it comes about, the, what you're saying, the statistics, it is true that we are not computing the statistics. it's... we have this independent authority of protection of private life. my personal view, we need to have more transparency on this just because it will put a lot of pressure out of when we can deliberate, when we can have debate about these things in a peaceful way, with data. you know, a lot of the myths that people are hearing will go away.

yeah. 0k. so you say you don't have a problem. let's just look at your policing methods, because in 2022, 13 french people of african and north african origin were shot dead by police for a traffic offence compared to one in germany in the last decade and probably none in the uk in the last decade. there's only one death in police custody, which was very ambiguous. this is an indictment, and it goes against what you say that france does not have a problem with racism. again, it's not because 1% may be racist that all of them are racist. i don't think that's true. and when they read it... 13 dead? when they read that... shot dead by the police for a traffic offence? when these things happen, the people are arrested, whether they're policemen or ordinary citizen, they are arrested, investigated and judged. france is a state of law. and there is no complacency about this. i can perfectly assure you about that. but somebody can be shot

dead forfailing... actually, what i should say is this — failing to comply with a traffic stop saw 13 people... no, no, no. ..dead last year. it's, as you very well know, zeinab, it's not about this. it's very... there's a huge frame about the use of weapons by the police. and it's not because you don't stop at a red light. there is a process. they have cameras. and if they have deviated, and it may be the case, i'm not the justice in the 13 cases you've mentioned, they arejudged, they are put injail, they are treated exactly, the policemen, exactly as in the other citizens. let me give you another statistic, then. how would you deal with this one? in france, a non—white male is 20 times more likely to be stopped by the police than a male in the uk, six times more likely. huge difference. if you look at the... it depends what you mean by stopped or arrested. checked or...

stopped, yeah, checked, you know. the police stop you. 20 times more likely if you're not white, in france. you cannot compare the uk and france on processes because in the uk you don't have... you were doing that a while ago in this interview, you were comparing the uk with france. but anyway. no, no, that's very different. what i'm saying is in france we've been looking at other countries who had issues just to see how they've done it, how they've assessed it, how they've restored order, and what lessons we can draw from what others have been doing. that's a positive comparison. all right. but, you know, it's not me who's putting these criticisms to you. the united nations human rights office based in geneva, a spokesperson said, and i quote, "france needs to address deep issues of racism and discrimination in law enforcement." council of europe, independent human rights watchdog, not part of the eu, published a commission against racism and intolerance injune 2022, highlighted little progress in france on curtailing the use of ethnic profiling by law enforcement officers.

this is a bit awkward to push that forward and on the basis of a few cases, like you have highlighted yourself, 13 in a few years, saying that it's systemic. in one year, actually. but anyway, go on. it is not systemic. and i want to repeat it again and again. there is no systemic issue. when there is an issue, when there is a racism issue, people, whether they're citizens or policemen, arrested, investigated and jailed. if that's the case. 0k. not a race issue, you say, what about a law, a legal issue? because the 2017 law, not introduced by president macron's government, expanded the use of the potential for a policeman to use firearms, even if his or her life was not threatened. and this is something which the left—wing alliance in parliament, the new alliance, say they want it repealed. they say it's a licence to kill. is the government looking to repeal this law?

so, let me talk about this new alliance. right? they've been blowing fire... never mind about them. i knew you would say that and try and vote. let me just ask you a very simple question, then. this 2017 law has been criticised, notjust by the left—wing alliance. is the government going to look at it and say perhaps it's too generous in its interpretation of when a police officer can use a firearm? there is no generosity of interpretation whatsoever. you've heard our interior minister this morning, gerald darmanin, saying... ..the police or the head of the police saying they were strengthening the use of cameras to make sure that things could be followed. let me tell you, i don't think this is the law. it's about the process. this process is being reviewed regularly. it will be reviewed again in the wake of this violence. but once again, i want to stress here, these violences are not a typical feature of my country. and let me give you a couple of examples. there has been no... ..no decrease in the rate of tourism, no cancellation of tourism.

people are coming. they haven't modified their trip. they know, and there are many tourists in paris and the rest of france now that in most of the country you are living a perfectly normal life. we have an issue with this area. we will address this issue. we will continue the work of the government. and this government is the first one who has actually seized the problem at its root, which is, as you rightly mentioned, education and integration... i don't know whether you have said at its roots. i just want to tell you very quickly a quote from sebastian roche, a french sociologist specialising in police practices, says there have been six times more fatal police shootings since the 2017 law than before, he says the law is the principal problem, so the solution must be to change it. ijust put to you again, i mean, there's a problem with this law. i would say something. perhaps there has been a rise in violence, perhaps there has been a rise in excess violence as well. i think, this time, when we look specifically at this time, there has been this traumatic event with nahel. but in the three days where 700

policemen and firemen were injured, some of them gravely in hospital, 3,000 arrested, there has not been another terrible incident. all this has left president macron and his government very preoccupied domestically. i mean, we saw him at the end ofjune leave an eu summit in brussels early. it was discussing ukraine. he cancelled a visit to germany, which would have been the first state visit by a french leader in 23 years. we saw the official visit by king charles to france — would have been his first one as king — also cancelled. i mean, how far are you worried that this is going to lead to a diminution in his standing? it comes after the gilets jaunes in 2018 protests and also the ones that we saw this year about the pension reforms. this german state visit, which has been cancelled, i went to participate in the event that the german president had kept following the cancellation.

first, the german president completely understood the president. the french president talked to him. they had a discussion. not only did he understand, but we had a thorough discussion, the german president and myself, about what we are observing throughout democratic countries, western countries, i should say, which is effectively the rise of violence, and especially in very young people, who will have difficulties with their future, and how this is spreading through europe, not only continental, but europe, the us, and what can we do, we politicians, to actually unrail this, address it and make sure that it decreases? and i think we all have to work together on this because this is the future of our society. all right. so you don't accept that he is so preoccupied with what's going on in the country that he's...? not at all.

he was at the nato summit. everybody was. i was there. he was there early. they managed to put the communique and the french response was really high. he's made announcements. he's talked to everyone. and he also, if you allow me to add this, france has been at the forefront of the support to ukraine, including on enlarging the eu, to the surprise of some some of our partners. let's pick up — you bring up enlarging the eu. where do you stand on this? because we have heard president macron in slovakia injune hint again at the previously raised idea of a multi—speed europe with some new countries. there are about eight countries, orten, including ukraine, who want tojoin. but he's suggesting that some countries could join with different status and rights rather than the ones that the historic members enjoy. is that something which is going to be put on the table again? so, it's quite different. it's just about... let me explain.

being a bit more pragmatic, which i know may surprise coming from our country. but it is the case. the first and very important thing is that france has been the first country to really support ukraine's accession to the eu, and with ukraine, moldova, and with them saying we must not forget the western balkans. so, the geopolitical situation, the rising tension across the globe, the security of the continent, the first step is enlarging the eu. all right. but could a multi—speed europe be on the table, because president macron's speech in slovakia injune hinted at this? what were his exact words? his exact words were that we have to review the policies of the eu, we have to review the budget, and we have to review the governance, which makes sense. if you're 35, you don't do the same thing that if you're 27. and from there, we will look at all the options. i mean, people have discussed

whether you have majority voting or whether you have unanimity and so on. but specifically, you know, this idea has been mooted before, that some countries have a more kind of advanced historic membership. and a lot of people don't like that the polish prime minister, for example, mateusz morawiecki, of course poland is a member of the eu, but he says we do not want a union of two speeds. we do not agree to europe being divided into better ones and worse ones, where stronger nations are favoured. that is not right. let me be very clear. the same president you are quoting has himself said, been saying, in a speech that i'm sure you have read... the prime minister, yeah. sorry, yes. the european commission had too many competences and he wanted to review that. he wants to review, not to expand it. he wants to review to bring it down. that is not what the french president has said, but this is what the polish prime minister has said. can i just ask you very simply, then, could a multi—speed europe be on the table? it could be an option.

all right. 0k. i want to also ask you something you have said when giorgia meloni in italy came to power, a far—right party, a lot of people were very, very concerned in october when she became prime minister. and you said, "we want to work with rome, but we will monitor "respect for rights and freedoms." giorgia meloni criticised this as "an unacceptable threat "of interference against a sovereign state, a member of the european union." are you still standing by your words? yes, because this sentence has been cut. and i was saying, like we do for any single of the 27 countries of the eu, of the european union, as you very well know, every year, there is a report from the commission about the rule of law in every single of the member countries of the european union. and now we are working perfectly well with giorgia meloni and italy and her government on all the issues related to the european union and also on bilateral issues. as you know, we have a treaty with them precisely to do that.

you're saying, of course, everybody was worried when the brothers of italy came to power because, you know, the far—right bloc and so on and so forth. and how far is she going to be in hock to them? so, it was said by you against that kind of background. it wasn't just a kind of matter of fact, business as usual, comment, was it? i'm certainly not a... i'm certainly not a far—right supporter and i'm not a very conservative right supporter either. we have political ideas now. we have some work to do with the eu. but, yeah, i'm not on this side of the political spectrum. all right. just going back quickly now to the position of president macron, you know, the fifth republic established by de gaulle in 1958 gave a lot of power to the french president, some at the expense of the legislature. you know, he's head of the armed forces, he can dissolve parliament, promulgate laws, even choose some members of the constitutional council and all the rest of it. and some people are saying this smacks of authoritarianism and erodes democracy. fair comment?

no. we saw how he used that law, didn't he, for the pension reforms? he rammed that through because he didn't have the majority. authoritarian? frankly, look at authoritarian countries in the world. right? the 49.3 is a constitutional instrument. by the way, it makes the parliament vote on the law. and if this does not go through, the government collapses. so that is democracy, right? the government is kicked out if it doesn't get through. all right. 0k. you talked about how tourists are still visiting france and, you know, don'tjust look at the riots and stay away. and we know it's the top tourist destination in the world. and, you know, the riots have cost at least 650 million euros and still counting. you've got the rugby world cup this autumn. you've got the olympics next year. how confident are you, as part of the government, that you can deliver safe and secure games? very much so. we have started working on this about more than... i mean, i have seen it since i've

joined the government, which is more than a year ago. every week, there's a monitoring, there's security, everything is being put in place. i can assure you that it will be extremely secure and quite spectacular. all right, laurence boone, minister of europe for france, thank you very much indeed for coming on hardtalk. thank you, zeinab. hello. no end in sight, really, to our unsettled run of weather, and so far thisjuly, there are parts of scotland that have already had 60% more rainfall than a typicaljuly. more of that to come, as well.

we've got this trough to our west, and with this we get areas of low pressure fired towards the uk, bringing outbreaks of rain. no change expected from that. but it's this ridge pattern across southern europe that's bringing the fierce heatwave, as air is forced down through the atmosphere with thatjet stream configuration, allowing extreme heat to be trapped near the earth's surface, butjust quite locally — 46 is not typical in sardinia, it'lljust be one or two areas. 46 likely in parts of sardinia and sicily, but for both, actually, that said, temperatures will continue to be a little below average for the time of yearfor most. now, for wednesday evening, those daytime showers will fade away, and we're left with clearing skies.

again, with those clear skies, the winds dropping out in many places, it turns quite chilly. some greens on the charts there, so temperatures getting well down into single figures — scotland, northern ireland, parts of northern england, wales, even rural areas in the south—west. so, a cool start to thursday. it is another day where we'll see a few showers popping up, but, on the whole, not many. most of the showers will be up into the north of scotland. elsewhere, you'll be quite unlucky to see a shower, a cool start to the day on thursday. it is another day where we will see a few showers popping up, but not many on the whole. elsewhere, you'll be quite unlucky to see a shower, so many of us will be dry for the day with temperatures around high teens to low 20s — nothing that special forjuly. into friday, into the weekend, we will see further low pushes underneath that trough in the jet stream. friday probably not

darting off too across england and wales, but rain quickly spread to northern ireland and scotland. some of that damp weather arriving into england and wales up towards the end of friday. temperatures ranging from around eckstein in glasgow, 21 in london —— 16 in glasgow. 0ne london —— 16 in glasgow. one of these areas will be crossing the uk, so we have outbreaks of rain, the heaviest across parts of northern england, perhaps southern scotland in the midlands. those temperatures really struggling underneath that cloud and rain band. highs of around 17 degrees for liverpool. that weather front is still trailing across parts of england and wales on sunday, so through the outbreaks of rain that affect parts of england and wales could be quite prolonged. something a bit brighter, but here, probably one or two passing showers.

take a look at the weather picture into next week, and you can see overall, little in the way of change. it stays unsettled with showers or longer spells of rain, and temperatures continue to be below average for the time of year. no change there.

welcome to newsday, reporting stranded at sea with his dog. live from singapore, i'm monica miller. i'm monica miller. the headlines.. the headlines.. an american soldier an american soldier named as travis king named as travis king is in custody in north korea — is in custody in north korea — after crossing into the country after crossing into the country without permission. without permission. in terms of my concern, in terms of my concern, i am absolutely foremost i am absolutely foremost concern about the welfare of our troops. wildfires rage and temperature records are broken across europe — as a global heatwave takes hold. workers at mcdonald's tell the bbc of a toxic culture at the company — including sexual assault and racist abuse. an australian sailor says he's grateful to be alive after surviving two months