localised waves could bring localised disruption with ferries running with cancellations or delays. brighter weather for scotland. sunny spells and a few showers but temperatures staying below average for this time of year. beyond that, the area of low pressure works its way to the continent. the winds get stronger in northern ireland but will ease elsewhere for thursday. thursday is a day of sunshine and showers and that continues for the first week of august. the uk is now pumping up oil and gas in pursuit of what the prime minister called a proportionate transition to net zero, and the promise of energy security, but will the announcement achieve either?

we'll be asking the shadow leader of the commons and the scottish conservative energy spokesman — is the only certainty here that we are going to "max out" our oil and gas? also tonight... is a runaway train set about to be stopped dead in its tracks? after more than £25 billion already spent — or squandered, depending on your view — is hs2 really heading for the buffers? how the chinese government is putting pressure on uyghur human rights campaigners around the world, including here in the uk, by getting to their families in china. they took my family hostage, putting me through this ordeal, but i still refused to betray my nation on my conscience. and the taliban silences music in afghanistan.

we'll be speaking to one of the country's biggest music stars who fled for her life after the fall of kabul, and hearing traditional afghan music live in the studio. good evening. the prime minister announced an oil and gas bonanza in the north sea, including possibly the exploitation of the rosebank field — the largest untapped field in the uk, which ramps up our production of fossil fuels, and a new carbon capture and storage facility in the north west of scotland, which will trap the c02 emissions that are so damaging. the government view appears to be that these two things work in each other�*s favour. scotland's first minister, humza yousaf, said the licences demonstrated the uk government wasn't serious about tackling the climate emergency, but welcomed the carbon capture and storage plans. a key selling point for rishi sunak,

speaking in aberdeen today, was his claim that the deal would deliver energy security, defending the public against the disruption of global energy supplies — something the shadow climate change secretary ed miliband refuted. we'll discuss with the conservatives and labour in a moment — first here's kate. we've been getting oil and gas from the north sea since the 19705. today, even without politics, production is in decline. principally because the gap between what's been used and what's left has shrunk significantly. grant shapps, secretary of state for energy security and net zero, has said he wants to "max out" these small but symbolic reserves — including issuing hundreds of new oil and gas licences. one reason, he suggests, is energy bills. now, it can take decades between a licence being issued and fossilfuels being produced. but even then, the impact on household finances is likely negligible. oil and gas prices are set internationally. and all the uk reserves wouldn't be large enough to distort those global markets. here's conservative chairman greg hands saying exactly that last year when he

was energy minister. producing more fuel doesn't guarantee energy security either. storage can protect you from sudden low supply or high demand — but the uk still has some of the smallest in europe. only enough gas stored for around 12 days demand — france has more than 100 days. the last decade has also seen a fall in the uk's oil refining capacity. both mean we rely on some imports — neither are tackled in today's announcements. then ministers say the climate is part of the reason for further fossil fuels. grant shapps claims uk gas production has four times fewer emissions associated with it than imported gas. which might be true for liquefied natural gas from the us or qatar. but more than half of the uk's imported gas comes via pipeline, mainly from norway. that has over 2.5 times fewer associated emissions than uk gas. partly because they have much stricter regulations on flaring — burning gas during extraction. there are also, of course, legally binding uk carbon budgets which require us to rapidly reduce oil and gas use.

in 2050, the pathway to net zero suggests some oil and gas will still be used, but demand will have fallen by 85% and 70% respectively. that's 27 years away — when some of the oil and gas licences issued now mayjust be starting to produce fuel. let's turn then to the other half of the government's announcement, confirming two new projects to be part of a £20 billion, 20—yearfunding commitment for carbon capture and storage. ccs is a range of technologies which extract carbon. typically, eitherjust before orjust after a fuel is burnt. it means less carbon dioxide reaches the atmosphere and contributes to warming. instead, the gas is compressed and pumped into underground caverns. now, because of north sea oil and gas extraction, the uk has lots of empty underground spaces we can use to store carbon. and lots of people with expertise who could work in these industries. many see opportunities. but net zero is about balance. myself and other university colleagues have formulated what we

call a carbon take—back obligation which suggests the government should make a simple rule for all companies extracting carbon, fossil carbon that they should be mandated, enforced to store the equivalent amount of fossil carbon back on the ground. that suggestion has not happened. carbon capture has traditionally been expensive. consumers are unlikely to want to add it to their gas bills. without balance, some fear the technology's promise could be used to justify business as usual. so if we are trying to make a simple analogy, if we are trying to give up smoking in terms of using fossil fuel, it's very strange to go out and buy the whole truck full of cigarettes if you're trying to give up smoking. that's what we're trying do today. of course, there's a political argument behind today's news. the government can point to potentially higher tax receipts and the maintenance of a major industry. they say every licence will be subject to a climate compatibility test. but when it comes to net zero, environmental campaigners would argue the best way to give up smoking is to stop buying cigarettes and invest in other, cheaper, energy sources like renewables.

joining me now is the scottish conservative spokesperson for net zero, energy and transport, douglas lumsden msp, and shadow leader of the house, labour's thangam debbonaire. first, thank you very much for coming, douglas lumsden. you had a day, if you want to wean yourself off smoking, why buy a pack of cigarettes? if we are trying to wean ourselves off gas and oil, why is the common granting hundreds of new licences? ~ . ., ., , , licences? we are weaning ourselves off as and licences? we are weaning ourselves off gas and oil— licences? we are weaning ourselves off gas and oil but it _ licences? we are weaning ourselves off gas and oil but it does take - off gas and oil but it does take a long time. from what we heard from the perimeter today, by 2050, the uk will be a net zero country, but we will be a net zero country, but we will still have, we will still rely on oil and gas, 25% of our energy needs will still come from oil and gas by 2050. so surely it is better that we protect our own jobs in this country and produce it in this country, rather than to rely on

imports from places like russia or saudi arabia. surely that makes sense. ~ ., �* saudi arabia. surely that makes sense. ., , , sense. we don't actually bring in anything from — sense. we don't actually bring in anything from saudi _ sense. we don't actually bring in anything from saudi arabia, - sense. we don't actually bring in anything from saudi arabia, this| sense. we don't actually bring in i anything from saudi arabia, this is very much of this idea of energy security, will never .3% of our gas from russia, we don't at all, now we take gas and oil from the from russia, we don't at all, now we take gas and oilfrom the us, no and qatar, we pipeline it in from norway, which is by far the most efficient way of doing it. what hostile states do we actually get any fossil fuels from? 50. hostile states do we actually get any fossil fuels from? so, as our production is _ any fossil fuels from? so, as our production is declining, we - production is declining, we will have to rely on imports more and more. that could be from countries like russia or qatar in the future. so it is back to the energy security point. we think it is best we produce it in this country while we still have a demand for it in this country. i would like it if tomorrow we no longer needed oil and gas but

that's not realistic, we have to be pragmatic and we have to take the approach that we can print best protect our economy in this country and protect the jobs protect our economy in this country and protect thejobs in our protect our economy in this country and protect the jobs in our country by still producing it. while we still have a demand for it. but the thin is, still have a demand for it. but the thing is. we _ still have a demand for it. but the thing is, we have _ still have a demand for it. but the thing is, we have a _ still have a demand for it. but the thing is, we have a big _ still have a demand for it. but the thing is, we have a big problem . still have a demand for it. but thej thing is, we have a big problem in storage, there is no announcement about storage today, back compared with france, our storage capability is tiny. wouldn't it be better to increase the storage, to be able to buy in international markets when it's cheaper? that would be a much more future proof... that would still rely on _ more future proof. .. that would still rely on purchasing oil- more future proof... that would still rely on purchasing oil and i still rely on purchasing oil and gas in. ~ . , still rely on purchasing oil and gas in. we always have to purchase it in an international markets, _ in. we always have to purchase it in an international markets, it's not i an international markets, it's not just for us. an international markets, it's not just for u— just for us. but we could produce a bi chunk just for us. but we could produce a big chunk of _ just for us. but we could produce a big chunk of what _ just for us. but we could produce a big chunk of what we need - big chunk of what we need rather than rely on imports, and storing it, so it's best if we have it in this country, produce it in this country is better for ourjobs and our economy.

country is better for our “obs and economvfi our economy. let's quickly talk about shell. _ our economy. let's quickly talk about shell. they are - our economy. let's quickly talk about shell. they are going - our economy. let's quickly talk i about shell. they are going to get to develop these fields and there are also going to get to help... they are going to get carbon capture and storage. why don't they plough the profits from extracting oil into carbon capture and storage rather than taking twice the profit? meiji. than taking twice the profit? well, while much of _ than taking twice the profit? well, while much of our income - than taking twice the profit? -ii while much of our income from oil and gas is going to renewables and there will be looking to make a huge contributor to carbon capture and storage. this is public money there needs to get things started. we need to make big steps forward or we are going to fall behind. so i welcome the announcement that the carbon capture and storage facility near peterhead today was given the go—ahead. it is something we have been calling forfor a go—ahead. it is something we have been calling for for a long time up in scotland is really glad to see it... ., ~ in scotland is really glad to see it... . ~ ,, in scotland is really glad to see it... . ~ i. , in scotland is really glad to see

it... thank you, but i want to turn to thangam- _ it... thank you, but i want to turn to thangam. ed miliband - it... thank you, but i want to turn to thangam. ed miliband said - to thangam. ed miliband said today, this drives a coach and horses through climate commitments. if labour was to win the election, will you revoke the licences? tote labour was to win the election, will you revoke the licences?— you revoke the licences? we would rant no you revoke the licences? we would grant no new licences. _ you revoke the licences? we would grant no new licences. obviously i you revoke the licences? we would | grant no new licences. obviously oil and gas is _ grant no new licences. obviously oil and gas is going to form part of our transition _ and gas is going to form part of our transition to a fully clean, green energy market. but we need to make sure we _ energy market. but we need to make sure we are not going to grant any more. — sure we are not going to grant any more. the world is on fire. we are all hearing about that. rishi sunak is taking us— all hearing about that. rishi sunak is taking us backwards, sending bad signals to _ is taking us backwards, sending bad signals to business and consumers, and he's _ signals to business and consumers, and he's not — signals to business and consumers, and he's not dealing with the climate — and he's not dealing with the climate emergency as it really is. so in _ climate emergency as it really is. so in effect what you are saying is, he will not issue any new licences but actually, it is job done because this government is doing thatjob for you. this government is doing thatjob foryou. so this government is doing thatjob for you. so you accept that any licences in place when you come into office and by then there will be hundreds more licences, you are actually agreeing to this fossil fuel strategy.

actually agreeing to this fossil fuel strategy-— actually agreeing to this fossil fuel strategy. actually agreeing to this fossil fuel strate: . ., ., ., ., fuel strategy. no, what we want to see is a doubling _ fuel strategy. no, what we want to see is a doubling of _ fuel strategy. no, what we want to see is a doubling of onshore - fuel strategy. no, what we want to see is a doubling of onshore wind, | see is a doubling of onshore wind, tripling _ see is a doubling of onshore wind, tripling of solar, quadrupling of offshore — tripling of solar, quadrupling of offshore wind, investment in tidal and wave. — offshore wind, investment in tidal and wave, which are the great untapped _ and wave, which are the great untapped sources of power that surround — untapped sources of power that surround our island nation, and new nuclear, there is a radical and bold way of tackling climate change but it is the _ way of tackling climate change but it is the way we are going to get those greatjobs of it is the way we are going to get those great jobs of the future, bring — those great jobs of the future, bring down bills, protect our energy security— bring down bills, protect our energy security and tackle climate change at the same time... security and tackle climate change at the same time. . ._ at the same time... can i 'ust clari , at the same time... can i 'ust clarify, what you i at the same time... can i 'ust clarify, what you are i at the same time... can ijust clarify, what you are saying . at the same time... can ijust i clarify, what you are saying is, if you win the next election, you will not revoke the licences, so therefore, that production in the north sea will go ahead for both gas and oil, to the stain —— back to the same extent the conservative government wants it to go ahead savanna since you are saying exactly the same. ~ ,,., , ., _, the same. absolutely not. the come and have forgotten _ the same. absolutely not. the come and have forgotten that what - and have forgotten that what we really _ and have forgotten that what we really need to do is invest in renewables, which they are not doing — renewables, which they are not doing. consumers are on our site and this, _ doing. consumers are on our site and

this, they— doing. consumers are on our site and this, they want girls to come down, they have _ this, they want girls to come down, they have had to put up the tory cost—of—living crisis with mortgages and rents going sky high, we need to make _ and rents going sky high, we need to make sure that people can see hope for the _ make sure that people can see hope for the future with the great jobs that will— for the future with the great jobs that will come with the renewable industry— that will come with the renewable industry with that green transition we need _ industry with that green transition we need to make so urgently for the sake of our— we need to make so urgently for the sake of our planet but also for the sake _ sake of our planet but also for the sake of our— sake of our planet but also for the sake of our health and for the sake of our— sake of our health and for the sake of our economy. too often, tory politicians have presented us with a choice between either tackling climate — choice between either tackling climate change are growing the economy and the reality is we need to do both — economy and the reality is we need to do both. �* economy and the reality is we need to do both-— to do both. and part of that, as dou~las to do both. and part of that, as douglas says. is _ to do both. and part of that, as douglas says, is that there i to do both. and part of that, as douglas says, is that there was j to do both. and part of that, as i douglas says, is that there was to be a need for 25% of energy from fossil fuels by 2050, be a need for 25% of energy from fossilfuels by 2050, if be a need for 25% of energy from fossil fuels by 2050, if you end be a need for 25% of energy from fossilfuels by 2050, if you end oil in the north sea before that, you will lose the skills in terms of renewables. there's quite a lot of transference in renewables of those skills. if transference in renewables of those skills. ., , skills. if the tories were escalating _ skills. if the tories were escalating the _ skills. if the tories were i escalating the transition to renewables now we would already be seeing that transition from jobs at oil and gas — seeing that transition from jobs at oil and gas which are so valuable

those _ oil and gas which are so valuable those people who have what those industries have given so much to keep— industries have given so much to keep us on— industries have given so much to keep us on energy for the last few decades but we need to make that transition — decades but we need to make that transition rapid. the labour party under— transition rapid. the labour party under keir— transition rapid. the labour party under keir starmer will move to net zero energy— under keir starmer will move to net zero energy by 2030. but that has to he done _ zero energy by 2030. but that has to be done by concerted effort which would _ be done by concerted effort which would bring in private finance, which will— would bring in private finance, which will involve our great british energy company. which will involve our great british energy company-— energy company. thank you both very much forioining _ energy company. thank you both very much forjoining us. _ later in the programme... as the taliban silences music in afghanistan, we hearfrom one of the country's biggest stars. hs2 was a grand project dreamed up by the labour government in 2009. the then prime minister gordon brown put it forward for debate, citing europe, america and asia, saying high speed rail was the future. there was talk of costs upwards of £30 billion. three years later it was green [it by the coalition govermment at an initial estimated cost of £33 billion. 11 years on, the department for transport�*s latest estimate is £71 billion

for a scaled back scheme. to date, government figures put the spend so far at almost £25 billion. now the ipa, the infrastructure projects authority, which advises the government on infrastructure and major construction projects, has raised a red flag on hs2, saying it is not achievable. here's sima. the route for hs2 was first put forward by a labour government in 2010. two years later, under the tory—lib dem coalition government, it was announced that a new high speed railway line to improve connectivity in england would be built in two phases. several years after that, the project was given royal assent, even though some living along the line were protesting. the plan is to provide high speed rail links between london and major cities in the midlands and the north of england. and here's how it's supposed to work. phase 1 will run from london to the west midlands. work has already started.

phase 2 will run from the west midlands, linking birmingham with manchester. phase 2 is split into two parts. phase 2a will run from birmingham to crewe, whilst phase 2b will extend the route from crewe to manchester and from the west midlands to east midlands parkway. but from the start, the project has been beset by delays and spiralling costs. the london to birmingham line was supposed to open in 2026, but now might not be operational until 2033, causing frustration among some advocates who want to reap the economic benefits they believe will come with shorter journey times. but yesterday, an official watchdog rated the railway line as unachievable. the transport secretary said the delay was down to significant inflationary pressure and increased project costs, meaning

the government re—phasing construction by two years. the second phase was due to open in 2032, but has been pushed back to between 2035 and 2040. in 2013, hs2 was expected to cost £37.5 billion. then, in 2015, that prediction went up to around £56 billion. four years later, the cost was expected to be between £72 billion and £98 billion but after the link between the east midlands and leeds was scrapped, the cost now is expected to be around the £71 billion mark. that is more than twice as much as originally anticipated. i think it could cost a lot more than that. we have seen a report that suggests it could be as much as £110 billion and from our experience, the project management has not been good. we pointed out issues in 2016 about the ground conditions here and,

you know, we are now seven years later and the environment agency are still not happy that hs2 know what they are doing about the aquifers in this area. the infrastructure and projects authority, which reports to the government, has now given the project's first two phases a red warning. according to its colour code, that means successful delivery of the project appears to be unachievable. their rating also means there are major issues with project definition, schedule, budget, quality and/or benefits delivery which at this stage do not appear to be manageable or resolvable. the government remains committed to delivering hs2. ministers believe economic benefits are great as well as environmental benefits by reducing the number of cars and lorries on the roads. if hs2 isn't built, then the economic impact in the long term for the country will be considerable.

you know, goods will not flow as smoothly as they do because it is important to remember hs2 is notjust about passengers, it is about free capacity on the network for freight trains, and if those benefits do not flow into the future, the economy will simply not grow at the speed that it would have done if we had an infrastructure in this country that is fit for purpose. but to its critics, the longer it takes, the more questions arise about its cost and efficiency, with some still wondering whether it will actually happen as billed. we did invite hs2 tojoin us, but they declined. i'm nowjoined by lord berkeley, who was appointed deputy chair of the government's oakervee review into high speed 2, and henri murison, chief executive at the northern powerhouse partnership. lord berkeley, you are a labour

peen lord berkeley, you are a labour peer, was this a misconception in the very first place by labour? i think it was a misconception that we did not start in the north with the construction and move south because the railways in the north are in a much worse state than around london and if we had started in the north, we could have brought improvements much sooner than will happen now. that is the first mistake. the second mistake is that you sit if the project will hit the buffers, there is no design for a station at euston which has buffers because eight years after the project started, the government still cannot decide how many platforms it wants etc etc. it’s decide how many platforms it wants etc etc. �* , , , ., decide how many platforms it wants etcetc. h , etc etc. it's interesting you say the words _ etc etc. it's interesting you say the words that _ etc etc. it's interesting you say the words that the _ etc etc. it's interesting you sayj the words that the government etc etc. it's interesting you say i the words that the government can't decide how many platforms it once but isn't that the problem? it was alluded to that project management has not been good so why is the

government concerning itself with how many platforms there should be at euston? �* .., , how many platforms there should be at euston? �* .. , ., , at euston? because the government is in charre of at euston? because the government is in charge of this _ at euston? because the government is in charge of this project _ at euston? because the government is in charge of this project and _ at euston? because the government is in charge of this project and it - in charge of this project and it probably micromanaging most of the stuff hs2 does and my estimate of the budget now is about £186 billion. ., �* ., ., billion. you've got the bagatelle there, billion. you've got the bagatelle there. the _ billion. you've got the bagatelle there, the highest _ billion. you've got the bagatelle there, the highest estimate! i i billion. you've got the bagatelle i there, the highest estimate! i want to turn to henri murison and i will ask you why the government is deciding how many platforms there should be at euston pond are we just not able to do this stuff? i should be at euston pond are we 'ust not able to do this stuff?i not able to do this stuff? i think we are able _ not able to do this stuff? i think we are able to _ not able to do this stuff? i think we are able to do _ not able to do this stuff? i think we are able to do it. _ not able to do this stuff? i think we are able to do it. the - not able to do this stuff? i think we are able to do it. the reason not able to do this stuff? i think- we are able to do it. the reason why there _ we are able to do it. the reason why there were _ we are able to do it. the reason why there were these two reds on the assessment and they were reds for crossrail— assessment and they were reds for crossrail until the project was to turn around, because this assessment was based _ turn around, because this assessment was based on the fact the government had just— was based on the fact the government had just delete the programme in order— had just delete the programme in order to _ had just delete the programme in order to meet treasury rules and that obviously had thrown phase two a and _ that obviously had thrown phase two a and part— that obviously had thrown phase two a and part of phase one into a degree — a and part of phase one into a degree of— a and part of phase one into a degree of disarray. whether it is

delaying — degree of disarray. whether it is delaying the project to artificially reduce _ delaying the project to artificially reduce the cost in the short term but add _ reduce the cost in the short term but add half a billion in the long term _ but add half a billion in the long term or— but add half a billion in the long term or changing their minds on platforms, — term or changing their minds on platforms, the design work alone to id platforms, the design work alone to go from _ platforms, the design work alone to go from an— platforms, the design work alone to go from an 11 platform station to tent was — go from an 11 platform station to tent was putting £100 million worth of design _ tent was putting £100 million worth of design work in the bin, that we need _ of design work in the bin, that we need to— of design work in the bin, that we need to learn from because i'm not happy— need to learn from because i'm not happy at _ need to learn from because i'm not happy at the way the government government is running the project. previous _ government is running the project. previous transport secretaries have made _ previous transport secretaries have made a _ previous transport secretaries have made a number of misjudgments and that's— made a number of misjudgments and that's partly why the cost has gone up. that's partly why the cost has gone up lt— that's partly why the cost has gone u . _ , that's partly why the cost has gone u a . , ., ., ., , that's partly why the cost has gone up. it is extraordinary, as you heard from — up. it is extraordinary, as you heard from sima, _ up. it is extraordinary, as you heard from sima, london i up. it is extraordinary, as you heard from sima, london to i heard from sima, london to birmingham was due in 2026 and it's now to be at least 2033 and i might be wrong on this but it's fair to say that that is pretty remarkable visibly project in asia and indeed in europe. visibly pro'ect in asia and indeed in euroe. , ., �* in europe. exactly i don't disagree that the delaying _ in europe. exactly i don't disagree that the delaying of _ in europe. exactly i don't disagree that the delaying of the _ in europe. exactly i don't disagree that the delaying of the project, i that the delaying of the project, and the — that the delaying of the project, and the figures quoted in the package, they are partly based on simple _ package, they are partly based on simple inflation to part of the reason — simple inflation to part of the reason the cost of h52 has gone up is if you _ reason the cost of h52 has gone up is if you work out the prices at the start— is if you work out the prices at the start and — is if you work out the prices at the start and end of the decade, the one

certainty— start and end of the decade, the one certainty is _ start and end of the decade, the one certainty is whether you are building _ certainty is whether you are building hospitals, private sector infrastructure, a trainline paid for largely— infrastructure, a trainline paid for largely by— infrastructure, a trainline paid for largely by the public purse, the price _ largely by the public purse, the price over— largely by the public purse, the price over time will go up. at my reflection — price over time will go up. at my reflection and response really to lord berkeley's critique is that i agree _ lord berkeley's critique is that i agree we — lord berkeley's critique is that i agree we should have started in the north— agree we should have started in the north but— agree we should have started in the north but where we are now is that we need _ north but where we are now is that we need to— north but where we are now is that we need to finish euston, get the line to _ we need to finish euston, get the line to manchester and get a way to -et line to manchester and get a way to get trains— line to manchester and get a way to get trains running to where i'm sitting — get trains running to where i'm sitting here in leeds because that is how— sitting here in leeds because that is how to — sitting here in leeds because that is how to drive productivity along with building northern powerhouse rail. with building northern powerhouse rail to _ with building northern powerhouse rail. ., , . ., with building northern powerhouse rail. . ., ., ., rail. to be clear, as far as you are concerned. _ rail. to be clear, as far as you are concerned, there _ rail. to be clear, as far as you are concerned, there is _ rail. to be clear, as far as you are concerned, there is no _ rail. to be clear, as far as you are concerned, there is no way - rail. to be clear, as far as you are concerned, there is no way this i concerned, there is no way this should be canned? it concerned, there is no way this should be canned?— concerned, there is no way this should be canned? it should not be canned because _ should be canned? it should not be canned because what _ should be canned? it should not be canned because what the _ canned because what the infrastructure and projects authority is telling the government is that— authority is telling the government is that you — authority is telling the government is that you have delayed this project — is that you have delayed this project to meet your fiscal rules and that's— project to meet your fiscal rules and that's causing problems pond what _ and that's causing problems pond what the — and that's causing problems pond what the advice of the ipa essentially to the government is to not have _ essentially to the government is to not have silly fiscal rules that mean — not have silly fiscal rules that mean the _ not have silly fiscal rules that mean the cost of eight goes up by half a _ mean the cost of eight goes up by half a billion, get building quicker and keep— half a billion, get building quicker and keep the cost down because delaying — and keep the cost down because delaying the project is pleasing neither— delaying the project is pleasing neither meat nor its opponent in the

form of— neither meat nor its opponent in the form of lord — neither meat nor its opponent in the form of lord berkeley and it's not in the _ form of lord berkeley and it's not in the interest of taxpayers so that's— in the interest of taxpayers so that's why we need to carry on. putting — that's why we need to carry on. putting that to lord berkeley, do you want this to be the biggest white elephant, just to be stopped half way through? or do you think we are at the point of no going back and it's betterjust to finish it? the problem at the moment is that the government has stopped all investment by network rail in the regional railways, which the north and the midlands are so desperate to have, and the government will not provide any more money for this so you either have to carry on with this white elephant to london or you put some of the money into the regional railways. i say that is what should happen now. there is no point it going to euston pant who wants to go to euston when you can get out at old oak common? henri murison is shaking _ get out at old oak common? henri murison is shaking his _ get out at old oak common? henri murison is shaking his head vehemently.— murison is shaking his head

vehementl. ., , , , ., vehemently. tony has been misleading --eole all vehemently. tony has been misleading people all day — vehemently. tony has been misleading people all day on _ vehemently. tony has been misleading people all day on the _ vehemently. tony has been misleading people all day on the media. _ vehemently. tony has been misleading people all day on the media. there i people all day on the media. there is investment happening between here where _ is investment happening between here where i'm _ is investment happening between here where i'm sitting in manchester, upgrading — where i'm sitting in manchester, upgrading the 16 line between leeds and manchester in advance of a new line being _ and manchester in advance of a new line being built. tony creates a false _ line being built. tony creates a false choice between investing in new railway lines and upgrading existing — new railway lines and upgrading existing ones and he's been doing this since — existing ones and he's been doing this since he sat on the view but the other— this since he sat on the view but the other panel members disagreed with his _ the other panel members disagreed with his analysis because it is fundamentally spurious. you can and must _ fundamentally spurious. you can and must upgrade existing lines, that's what network rail has been funded to do and _ what network rail has been funded to do and you _ what network rail has been funded to do and you need to build newlines because _ do and you need to build newlines because we — do and you need to build newlines because we need both, the capacity, as was— because we need both, the capacity, as was said — because we need both, the capacity, as was said in the package, the capacity— as was said in the package, the capacity for freight, capacity for commuters, building new railway lines _ commuters, building new railway lines to— commuters, building new railway lines to take intercity trains of the victorian network which is the best the victorian network which is the hest way— the victorian network which is the best way to do that. xlif'ery the victorian network which is the best way to do that.— the victorian network which is the best way to do that. very quickly to both of you. _ best way to do that. very quickly to both of you, starting _ best way to do that. very quickly to both of you, starting with _ best way to do that. very quickly to both of you, starting with henri i both of you, starting with henri murison, you heard in the piece, basically project management has not been good and that needs to change so what is your top tip on project management? i

so what is your top tip on pro'ect managemenni so what is your top tip on pro'ect management? i think the new chief executive of — management? i think the new chief executive of h52 _ management? i think the new chief executive of h52 needs _ management? i think the new chief executive of h52 needs to - management? i think the new chief executive of h52 needs to be i management? i think the new chief executive of h52 needs to be given | management? i think the new chief. executive of h52 needs to be given a defined _ executive of h52 needs to be given a defined scope and be left to get on with it _ defined scope and be left to get on with it and — defined scope and be left to get on with it and those many hundreds of civil servant — with it and those many hundreds of civil servant to interfere in the project — civil servant to interfere in the project every day need to be dispensed with and we need to take the politics and politicians out of the politics and politicians out of the day—to—day management of the project _ the day—to—day management of the project do— the day-to-day management of the ro'ect. ,, ., the day-to-day management of the ro'ect. i. ., ., ,, project. do you agree, take the politicians _ project. do you agree, take the politicians out? _ project. do you agree, take the politicians out? to _ project. do you agree, take the politicians out? to a _ project. do you agree, take the politicians out? to a certain i project. do you agree, take the i politicians out? to a certain extent but i would — politicians out? to a certain extent but i would actually _ politicians out? to a certain extent but i would actually cancel - politicians out? to a certain extent but i would actually cancel the i but i would actually cancel the whole project apart from birmingham to london pond i think you've made that clear, thank you very much indeed. , ., hs2 is now hitting peak construction, with work intensifying . our priority is to maintain the fantastic momentum already underway to ensure the initial high speed services ? connecting old oak common and birmingham curzon street ? are operational by the current target of the early 20305. ? -- hsz —— hs2 said. uyghurs in china live under intense surveillance, and more than a million have allegedly been detained in internment camps. researchers at sheffield university say that china is pressuring uyghurs living abroad to spy on uyghur human rights campaigners, by threatening their own

families back home. it's a tactic that is is tearing uyghur communities apart. it's used most notably in turkey, which has one of the largest uyghur communities outside china. but it's being used in the uk too. a newsnight investigation has heard from a uyghur refugee living in the uk, who's told sam judah about his experience. a demonstration outside the foreign office with a dark twist. these uyghurs want the government to speak up about human rights abuses in china. but they face another problem, a threat that may be driving some away from their protests. someone has been asked to infiltrate their ranks, gather intelligence and send details to the chinese authorities. he's spoken to the bbc about his experience. we're concealing his identity because of the risk of reprisals against him and his family. we're calling him aleem. he's a refugee living in the uk.

and what happened? was it a phone call, a text message? it was an audio call through wechat. when they called me, i recorded it with my other phone. aleem has shared those recordings, a series of phone calls from someone he says works for chinese state security. we've adapted them and omitted details that may compromises anonymity. "we paid a visit to your family in xinjiang". "my colleague collected their details". "if you want to see them, i can set up a video call". he said he would help me unite with my family. so i was elated. here's how that call worked. a police officer in china made a video call to alim on one phone and he called his mother in xinjiang on another. he held the phones up like this

so the two could see each other just about. the officer was watching and remained in control. when i saw my mother, i couldn't contain my emotions. it had been six to seven years since i last saw her, and it was an incredibly heart wrenching moment. there was a price to pay. the officer wanted something in return. they took my family hostage, putting me through this ordeal. even though i may appear fine on the outside, on the inside i'm suffering. but i still refuse to betray my nation and my conscience.

i accepted the fact that they would harm my family. this is my life now. it's actually an official political manual... i a landmark report published this year says two thirds of the 400 uyghurs living in the uk have been approached directly by chinese police and asked to inform on their peers, cease advocacy work or stop speaking to the media. i this is about the way the chinese. government harasses and threatens uyghur people abroad and tries to control their daily activities i and their friendships. the headline of the report really | is that all uyghurs outside chinaj face some form of transnational repression, most face threats i and harassment from police and government officials. i but all experiencej family separation. they cannot return home to see their families. i and the impact of that repression is that uyghurs struggle - to settle into new societies, - and they worry that other members of the community could be spies.

uyghurs outside china offer a line to the international community. they can speak for those still in xinjiang, telling the world about its internment camps, where the un says more than a million people have been detained in the last few years. those who refuse to follow the party line would often flee to places like turkey, now home to 50,000 uyghurs and once a place of sanctuary. but david tobin's research suggests chinese repression is even more widespread here. he says four in every five uyghurs have been approached by the authorities in china. another aspect that was surprising was how open people were - about surveillance, i particularly in turkey, where restaurant owners i that we were not interviewing would discuss with us - how they were under pressure to inform on their customers.

that surprised us because we weren't seeking it out, and it shows- how widespread this form of surveillance is. - abderrahim parekh was an active member of the community, a spokesman at protests and a celebrated uyghur poet. translation: until 2019 - we lived together very freely. we had protests or talks to do with human rights. i was often invited to speak and read my poetry. today, things look very different. trust among the community is splintering. this week, a man has been accused of spying for the chinese government. —— this uyghur man. his confession filmed and posted to facebook as a warning to the community. abderrahim says now spies are everywhere. translation: it could be a political game by the chinese government i to set uyghur people against

each other, and the system. many patriotic uyghurs are leaving istanbul. many young people are no longer involved in the uyghur cause. people no longer trust one another. they run away from one another. china's plan is working in restaurants, in streets. i'm alone. i have no existence other than a solitary one. really focus on that. it's really emphasising... david says this isn't a coincidence. turkey is seen as having grown closer to china in recent years and questions have been raised about its commitment to protecting its uyghur community. the more dependent a country on investment from china, i the more likely it is to cooperate or turn a blind eye _ to transnational repression. but china isn't only targeting people in countries where it has economic supremacy. julie millsap is married to a chinese national. they lived in china for over ten years but decided they couldn't

abide the reports they were hearing. while we weren't politically involved, we saw a lot of acquaintances and friends disappear, never to be heard from again. so it was sort of a wake up call again of where we were living. after moving to washington, dc, julie took a job as a uyghur rights activist, and she made a big decision to testify very publicly at the uga tribunal, an unofficial hearing set up to examine claims of human rights abuses in xinjiang. —— ad the regular tribunal. —— uyghur. it's been valuable advocacy wise, but also made them, i think, infuriated in a lot of ways. we certainly saw that the floodgates were opened in a sense, and i started to receive a lot of digital harassment, utilising photos that had clearly been taken from my previous chinese, wechat account that i wasn't using any more, and then being disseminated alongside photos of an individual that was not me

and to me fairly clearly was not me, but basically insinuating that i was having an affair, that i was an adulterer. julie can't prove the abuse was coming directly from the government, but she is sure of what happened next. recently they've actually been sending people to my mother—in—law who's very ill with cancer. they came to her house a few times and started to entreat her to tell us that we should make friends, that they would like to speak to us, and that they wanted to check on us. during a video call with her in—laws in china, a local policeman dropped by, allowing julie to capture the moment on camera and confront the officer face to face. i was able to directly communicate and just say that my mother—in—law is very sick and we don't want visits and we're not interested in making friends. and i made it very clear that i wasn't interested in any further communications.

and the gentleman in this video that you've recorded and sent to us, he himself says that he's a chinese police officer? yes, he did. the long arm of the chinese state appears to be extending, reaching uyghur communities wherever they are. alim rejected their approaches, saying he refused to betray his people. we're told the vast majority of uyghurs do the same. their goal, to preserve their culture in the face of pressure from beijing many miles from home. newsnight put the allegations about the repression of uyghurs living abroad to the chinese embassy in london. in a statement, the embassy told us some of those who made allegations against beijing had fabricated their stories. the statement added...

the taliban has killed music in afghanistan. first, injune, they imposed a strict ban on music in wedding halls, saying it contradicts the teaching of islam, and now they've forbidden music everywhere. according to the ministry for the propagation of virtue and the prevention of vice, promoting music causes moral corruption and playing it will cause the youth to go astray. pictures emerged this weekend of members of the taliban burning instruments on a bonfire in the western herat province. in a moment we'll have a live performance of traditional afghan music, played on the rubab by british afghan durri zahir, but first i'm joined from aryana sayeed, one of afghanistan's biggest pop stars and a women's rights activist, who was a judge on the country's version of the voice. she was evacuated during the fall

of kabul to the taliban. thank you very much forjoining us, aryana. how important his music in afghan culture, both traditional and p0p afghan culture, both traditional and pop music? afghan culture, both traditional and -0- music? , , ., , , pop music? greetings to you, kirsty. not many people might _ pop music? greetings to you, kirsty. not many people might know- pop music? greetings to you, kirsty. not many people might know this i pop music? greetings to you, kirsty. | not many people might know this but afghanistan has a history of over 5000 years and music has always been a big part of its culture. people actually love music in afghanistan, and they lived for it and in recent years since there has not been many means of entertainment inside afghanistan, many people have primarily found joy and a moment of happiness in music, so it's extremely important. what impact will the musical— extremely important. what impact will the musical silence are - will the musical silence are particularly on children? well, a recent survey — particularly on children? well, a recent survey revealed that i recent survey revealed that afghanistan is one of the saddest

countries on the planet. emergence soliciting a beautiful being removed from a country that is already suffering. music being banned will definitely impact the joy and happiness of people and quite honestly amazed by how a government would actually work so hard to bring sadness and misery to its people. [30 sadness and misery to its people. do you think people will risk the wrath of the taliban and play in secret? what you hearing? i of the taliban and play in secret? what you hearing?— what you hearing? i definitely believe so- — what you hearing? i definitely believe so. this happened i what you hearing? i definitely i believe so. this happened the last time as well in the taliban were in power. music is part of human life and the reality is that it would literally be impossible for the taliban to keep an eye on every single home in the country to make sure nobody plays music or listens to it. one example is when i recently released a couple of songs and music videos, when we look at the stats we can clearly see the

number one country where my songs and videos are watched is in afghanistan. so they are listening to at. ., ., ., , ., to at. you are “oining us from istanbul to — to at. you are joining us from istanbulto write, i _ to at. you are joining us from i istanbul to write, i understand you are in touch with physicians in the country, what are they saying? musicians are actually in very bad situation right now. are either hiding or being in a terrifying situation. living in fearfor their lives. and also the biggest problem apart from that is that now since the means of income used to come from music and now since it is banned, they have no means of income and their children are suffering

from poverty. and their children are suffering from poverty-— and their children are suffering from ove . . ~' , . from poverty. thank you very much indeed. aryana _ that's all for tonight. i'll be back tomorrow. before we go — music may be under threat in parts of afghanistan