there has been much speculation that an indictment over trump's alleged interference in the 2020 presidential election and his role in the january 6 riot is imminent. no other sitting orformer us president has ever been indicted on criminal charges. for donald trump, this is potentially his third time. he's already due to stand trial next year in two separate cases. all the while, according to opinion polls, he remains the outstanding favourite to win the republican nomination for the 2024 presidential election and he has repeatedly said he will run for the white house even if convicted and jailed. live now to former republican national committee official doug heye. you have been following all the latest development with us here, and we are seeing there's a lot happening in the courtroom here in washington at the moment. the latest we are hearing is the grand jury has just returned a sealed indictment of the judge has approved the summons of an unnamed individual to appear in court, butjust take us through

what we're expecting see here. we are what we're expecting see here. - are expecting to see the department ofjustice in die donald trump, this is now another indictment, it seems they're stacking up on them, and what we saw with the statement is that he says it is a fake indictment. 0bviously that he says it is a fake indictment. obviously the indictment is a very real thing. we'll find out if he is innocent or guilty if he is charged, but the indictment is very real. it increases the legal pressure the donald trump finds himself, but in the short term, does not bizarrely increase the political pressure that he feels himself under. he is the one who told us this was going to happen. he released a statement earlier today on his platform through social —— truth social. essentially so he could get out events of this and as he has done very well on this raise money and shore up his republican base. very bizarre things that that happened. typically when a politician is indicted, they are in big trouble politically and legally. with trump he is at least in the short—term suspending some of the political loss gravity here.

short-term suspending some of the political loss gravity here.— political loss gravity here. doug, “ust to political loss gravity here. doug, just to remind _ political loss gravity here. doug, just to remind our _ political loss gravity here. doug, just to remind our viewers, - political loss gravity here. doug, just to remind our viewers, thisl political loss gravity here. doug, | just to remind our viewers, this is a link to the federal investigation into efforts to undermine the 2020 election results. remind us of exactly what jack smith the special counsel and his office had been looking at?— counsel and his office had been lookin: at? , ., ., looking at? first and foremost jack smith is a special— looking at? first and foremost jack smith is a special counsel, - looking at? first and foremost jack smith is a special counsel, so - looking at? first and foremost jack smith is a special counsel, so he . smith is a special counsel, so he has been appointed specifically to look into these events that surrounded donald trump's try to overturn the election. he is not a biden administration employee, he is not the attorney general, for instance, this is an independent investigation that it looks like has concluded that donald trump broke the law. typically if you are a special counsel or a prosecutor, you don't file a charge unless you think you have a very good chance of finding that person has committed a crime and will be found guilty, and so what they have done is they have talked to seemingly every person that they could in the administration in the state of georgia, for instance, as well who have had conversations with donald

trump on trying to overturn the election and on the events surrounding january 6. that includes former vice president pens, his former vice president pens, his former chief of staff mark meadows and on down the line of anybody who was privy to donald trump's words, actions or thoughts in those days. 0k, doug, iwant you actions or thoughts in those days. 0k, doug, i want you to stay right there. we are going to talk about some of those other investigations, but i want to bring in our correspondent nomia iqbal, who is standing right in for the courthouse in washington, dc, covering all this for us. i understand we havejust received the indictment. is that correct? , ., , . correct? yes, we have 'ust received it. i am correct? yes, we have 'ust received it- i am just — correct? yes, we have 'ust received it. i amjust looking _ correct? yes, we have 'ust received it. i am just looking at _ correct? yes, we have just received it. i am just looking at it _ correct? yes, we have just received it. i am just looking at it now. - it. i am just looking at it now. this— it. i am just looking at it now. this is— it. i am just looking at it now. this is through the united states of america _ this is through the united states of america versus donaldj this is through the united states of america versus donald] trump, and on it, _ america versus donald] trump, and on it. we _ america versus donald] trump, and on it, we have got four counts that he has _ on it, we have got four counts that he has been — on it, we have got four counts that he has been charged with. just to confirm, donald trump has been indicted — confirm, donald trump has been indicted for the third time. so the count_ indicted for the third time. so the count one — indicted for the third time. so the count one is conspiracy to defraud the united — count one is conspiracy to defraud

the united states. witness tampering and conspiracy against citizens. these _ and conspiracy against citizens. these are — and conspiracy against citizens. these are the charges that he was predicted — these are the charges that he was predicted to be facing. but let me 'ust predicted to be facing. but let me just quickly explained what they mean _ just quickly explained what they mean. this is the biggest case, first— mean. this is the biggest case, first of— mean. this is the biggest case, first of all. _ mean. this is the biggest case, first of all, against donald trump by the _ first of all, against donald trump by the department ofjustice. they're — by the department ofjustice. they're investigating a variety of plots _ they're investigating a variety of plots in — they're investigating a variety of plots in connection to the attack on the capital— plots in connection to the attack on the capital onjeanmarie six, 2021, and the _ the capital onjeanmarie six, 2021, and the attack itself, and there's a few blots — and the attack itself, and there's a few plots they are looking into, but the charges themselves, obstruction, the charges themselves, obstruction, the conspiracy to defraud the united states. _ the conspiracy to defraud the united states, this is likely to relate to schemes— states, this is likely to relate to schemes like the fall select source plot, _ schemes like the fall select source blot, so _ schemes like the fall select source plot, so this was an accusation that donald _ plot, so this was an accusation that donald trump is accused of devising with his _ donald trump is accused of devising with his lawyers and advisers to try and overturn the election —— all selectors — and overturn the election —— all selectors. the other charge here is witness _ selectors. the other charge here is witness tampering. we will have to id witness tampering. we will have to go through the document a few that

make _ go through the document a few that make it _ go through the document a few that make it more carefully, to understand exec with the context is of that _ understand exec with the context is of that. this is based on several rights _ of that. this is based on several rights statute. it was passed during the reconstruction era to protect the reconstruction era to protect the voting — the reconstruction era to protect the voting rights of former enslaved people. _ the voting rights of former enslaved people, black people, in the south, so that— people, black people, in the south, so that is— people, black people, in the south, so that is an — people, black people, in the south, so that is an interesting one. but, look, _ so that is an interesting one. but, look, overall, let mejust so that is an interesting one. but, look, overall, let me just read this coming _ look, overall, let me just read this coming from the indictment, these claims _ coming from the indictment, these claims of— coming from the indictment, these claims of election fraud were false and he _ claims of election fraud were false and he defendant knew that they were false, _ and he defendant knew that they were false, so _ and he defendant knew that they were false, so this is the case that the department ofjustice laying out against — department ofjustice laying out against donald trump. just to remind, — against donald trump. just to remind, this is the biggest case against — remind, this is the biggest case against donald trump by that department ofjustice, it is argued be the _ department ofjustice, it is argued be the most serious indictment yet. if be the most serious indictment yet. if yotr're _ be the most serious indictment yet. if yotr're in — be the most serious indictment yet. if you're in for the first indictment in new york, allegations of falsifying business documents, that was— of falsifying business documents, that was to do with before he became president— that was to do with before he became president of the second lightning back in_ president of the second lightning back injune, just last month, in july, _ back injune, just last month, in july, this— back injune, just last month, in july, this was to do with classified

documents. —— the second indictment. this was— documents. —— the second indictment. this was after— documents. —— the second indictment. this was after he left the white house — this was after he left the white house. this indictment, the third one, _ house. this indictment, the third one. is— house. this indictment, the third one, is related to what he did when he was _ one, is related to what he did when he was president. we know that donald — he was president. we know that donald trump has already been reacting. — donald trump has already been reacting, he reacted before this was handed _ reacting, he reacted before this was handed down. exactly what he said in the last— handed down. exactly what he said in the last two— handed down. exactly what he said in the last two indictments, that this was a _ the last two indictments, that this was a political witch hunt, this was it department ofjustice which has been _ it department ofjustice which has been weapon eyes by president biden to stop _ been weapon eyes by president biden to stop him from running for the white _ to stop him from running for the white house, and of course on trip is innocent — white house, and of course on trip is innocent until proven guilty. those — is innocent until proven guilty. those are _ is innocent until proven guilty. those are his rights. it is exhorting their that the former president of the usa intentionally, —— extraordinary that the former president. — —— extraordinary that the former president, potentially the future, has been — president, potentially the future, has been excited again.— has been excited again. nomia, i want ou has been excited again. nomia, i want you to _ has been excited again. nomia, i want you to have _ has been excited again. nomia, i want you to have time _ has been excited again. nomia, i want you to have time to - has been excited again. nomia, i want you to have time to pour. want you to have time to pour through this indictment, we've all just received a, but give us an idea, as you are standing outside this courthouse, we've been waiting for the last he can have in two weeks, eversince for the last he can have in two weeks, ever since the four president said he received this target letter indicated he was the target of an

indictment in this investigation, leaving when you see what the grand jury leaving when you see what the grand jury does here for some what has been there today? we only know about these imminent indictments because of donald trump. he does this twice before, tries to get ahead of the narrative, control the narrative to work it in front of his favour. it works in his favour with republican voters and his base. when he announced there's lives target letter that he received, he told us he received it on a tuesday but he told us about it on his social network site on tuesday, and this target letter is usually send people investigated, incentive for them to give evidence to the jury. he was invited to give evidence in which _ he was invited to give evidence in which he — he was invited to give evidence in which he declined to, and he declined _ which he declined to, and he declined that in the last indictment as woelfel tub usually those target letters _ as woelfel tub usually those target letters are sent to defendants to

people _ letters are sent to defendants to people when the investigation wrapping up so we knew some thing was coming, and has been a lot of activity— was coming, and has been a lot of activity in the court the last week or so. _ activity in the court the last week or so. the — activity in the court the last week or so, the grandjury activity in the court the last week or so, the grand jury coming activity in the court the last week or so, the grandjury coming in or so, the grand jury coming in and out. or so, the grand jury coming in and out they— or so, the grand jury coming in and out. they left early, but the foreperson so there has been this real kind — foreperson so there has been this real kind of— foreperson so there has been this real kind of sense that this indictment was coming up as i mentioned, because donald trump has been very— mentioned, because donald trump has been very open about it, it is almost — been very open about it, it is almost telling us when this is coming. _ almost telling us when this is coming, we have now confirmed, and i would _ coming, we have now confirmed, and i would say. _ coming, we have now confirmed, and i would say. it— coming, we have now confirmed, and i would say, it has come a lot sooner, because _ would say, it has come a lot sooner, because last — would say, it has come a lot sooner, because last time donald trump announced he was being indicted it came _ announced he was being indicted it came the _ announced he was being indicted it came the next day. today, he said he heard _ came the next day. today, he said he heard he _ came the next day. today, he said he heard he was— came the next day. today, he said he heard he was being indicted and within— heard he was being indicted and within an — heard he was being indicted and within an hour or two, we got that confirmation from the special counsel— confirmation from the special counseljack smith that he is going to be _ counseljack smith that he is going to be indicted for the third time. as i to be indicted for the third time. as i said — to be indicted for the third time. as i said arguably the most serious case against donald trump yet. indeed. — case against donald trump yet. indeed, and we're dissing information coming into us, nomia, that the arraignment will be in washington, dc this thursday at lipm,

so we can imaginejust washington, dc this thursday at lipm, so we can imagine just what kind of arrangements washington itself have to make in preparation for this arraignment, similar to what we saw in miami forthe arraignment, similar to what we saw in miami for the previous federal indictment and also in new york for the indictment there as well. but i think we have some images of the actual indictments that we can bring up. of course this is a lot to read through and we will not be able to pour through thisjust on through and we will not be able to pour through this just on the screen here, butjust interesting to look at. four charges the former president is facing here, these four charges that you will see on your screen here, conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of an attempt to obstruction of an attempt to obstruct an official proceeding and conspiracy against rights. and i want to bring back doug heye, because we were just talking before we learned the news of this and i'm in so i want to get llori actionable we've actually seen come down. i think we knew that this was coming. —— get your reaction.

think we knew that this was coming. -- get your reaction.— -- get your reaction. trump started the timeframe _ -- get your reaction. trump started the timeframe on _ -- get your reaction. trump started the timeframe on when _ -- get your reaction. trump started the timeframe on when we - -- get your reaction. trump started the timeframe on when we could i the timeframe on when we could expect this, but what ever it has been keeping their eyes on for weeks now, there was a real sentiment in washington this is going to happen last week. now it has happened we now know on thursday that we will see the arraignment, and we use the word unprecedented when it comes to donald trump so often, but this may be the most unprecedented that we have. we've never seen this in the united states where a former president has been tried with a crime, certainly not a felony, from the department ofjustice, and so but we are going to see at the courthouse on thursday, we talk about prominent trials, a circus atmosphere around them, around a lot of things that donald trump says and does, that will be never more true than what we see on thursday. we'll see them leaving to go to washington, we will see him arriving in whichever airport he flies into around washington, you will see them going to the courtroom, and these are images we have never seen in the

united states before. irate are images we have never seen in the united states before.— united states before. we are 'ust learnin: united states before. we are 'ust learning more �* united states before. we are 'ust learning more about i united states before. we are 'ust learning more about that i learning more about that arraignment. he has been summoned to appear in washington, dc court on thursday, as i said, 4pm local time, to appear before a judge, and that will happen on thursday, so getting this indictments today and we will see how that happens, but as you said, doug, we have seen this now into cases already full to give us an idea of how significant, we know it is historic, but how significant this is for trump himself and what he is facing in this investigation. there are two different directions on this. one is the legal and one of the political. 0n the legal issue of and full disclosure i am not a lawyer, this is a very difficult place for donald trump to be. and obviously we have seen this now happen in multiplejurisdictions. 0n happen in multiplejurisdictions. on a state level and on a federal level as well. the simple fact is, if he is found guilty donald trump to go to jail and go is found guilty donald trump to go to jailand go to jail is found guilty donald trump to go to jail and go to jailfor is found guilty donald trump to go to jailand go to jailfora is found guilty donald trump to go to jail and go to jailfor a long time. and as could other people who have been indicted around him. then

you have the political issue on this and that is where it gets very murky and very fascinating stubble we have seen is there is an immediate term, a short term and a long—term full to the immediate term which is what we sell is donald trump's stamann on truth social, earlier today. sell is donald trump's stamann on truth social, earliertoday. he announces it, he raises money off it. that is the short—term. what we see in the political primary so far. his opponents, unlike anything we've seenin his opponents, unlike anything we've seen in politics, back him up, reinforce some of his messaging about a two—tiered system of government and things like that. typically in politics in any country, in any race for any office, when your opponent is indicted for a great thing for you and the republican primary we have seen her public and candidates very hesitant to go after donald trump on this. notjust say he has done something wrong but that there is just a lot of chaos and drama around him. then there is a long-term. _ of chaos and drama around him. then there is a long-term. your— of chaos and drama around him. then there is a long-term. your summit i there is a long-term. your summit ou voted there is a long-term. your summit you voted for _ there is a long-term. your summit you voted for donald _ there is a long-term. your summit you voted for donald trump - there is a long-term. your summit you voted for donald trump an - you voted for donald trump an independent voter or soft republican, some of you voted for

donald up in 2016 but did not in 2020, this is very damaging. admix is much harderfor donald trump to win those voters over in part because they fled donald trump in 2020 because there was too much drama, there was too much chaos and corruption, this certainly adds to this, makes it harderfor him to be elected president even if it makes it somewhat easier for him at least in this viewpoint at this point to be nominated.— be nominated. those are really interesting _ be nominated. those are really interesting points _ be nominated. those are really interesting points and - be nominated. those are really interesting points and i - be nominated. those are really interesting points and i just - be nominated. those are really i interesting points and i just want interesting points and ijust want to alert our viewers that we are awaiting a statement from the special counseljack smith. he is scheduled to speak in about 20 minutes' time, but 50 minutes, rather, but isaac we havejoe marino, formerfederal rather, but isaac we havejoe marino, former federal prosecutor with us, as we wanted to look at the legal aspects of this. great to see you. we wanted to pick apart the legal aspect of it, so really great for to have you on, wejust for to have you on, we just received this indictment. i know you have not had a whole lot of time to look through it but these four counts, what you make of this? ihi. through it but these four counts, what you make of this?— through it but these four counts, what you make of this? hi. yes, i have not had _

what you make of this? hi. yes, i have not had a _ what you make of this? hi. yes, i have not had a chance _ what you make of this? hi. yes, i have not had a chance really - what you make of this? hi. yes, i. have not had a chance really digest it, have not had a chance really digest it. not _ have not had a chance really digest it, not surprisingly, _ have not had a chance really digest it, not surprisingly, it— have not had a chance really digest it, not surprisingly, it does- have not had a chance really digest it, not surprisingly, it does not- it, not surprisingly, it does not appear that _ it, not surprisingly, it does not appear that donald _ it, not surprisingly, it does not appear that donald trump - it, not surprisingly, it does not appear that donald trump will| it, not surprisingly, it does not. appear that donald trump will be tied with — appear that donald trump will be tied with anything _ appear that donald trump will be tied with anything relating - appear that donald trump will be tied with anything relating to - appear that donald trump will be tied with anything relating to the| tied with anything relating to the violence — tied with anything relating to the violence of— tied with anything relating to the violence ofjanuary_ tied with anything relating to the violence ofjanuary 6. _ tied with anything relating to the violence ofjanuary 6. we - tied with anything relating to the violence ofjanuary 6. we alwaysj violence ofjanuary 6. we always knew _ violence ofjanuary 6. we always knew that — violence ofjanuary 6. we always knew that was _ violence ofjanuary 6. we always knew that was going _ violence ofjanuary 6. we always knew that was going to - violence ofjanuary 6. we always knew that was going to be - violence ofjanuary 6. we always i knew that was going to be difficult. people _ knew that was going to be difficult. people who— knew that was going to be difficult. people who think _ knew that was going to be difficult. people who think you _ knew that was going to be difficult. people who think you should - knew that was going to be difficult. people who think you should be - people who think you should be legally— people who think you should be legally responsible _ people who think you should be legally responsible for - people who think you should be legally responsible for the - legally responsible for the insurrection, _ legally responsible for the insurrection, the - legally responsible for the j insurrection, the seditious conspiracy— insurrection, the seditious conspiracy type _ insurrection, the seditious conspiracy type crimes, i insurrection, the seditious i conspiracy type crimes, that insurrection, the seditious - conspiracy type crimes, that is tough — conspiracy type crimes, that is tough because _ conspiracy type crimes, that is tough because you _ conspiracy type crimes, that is tough because you have - conspiracy type crimes, that is tough because you have to - conspiracy type crimes, that is. tough because you have to show legally— tough because you have to show legally beyond _ tough because you have to show legally beyond reasonable - tough because you have to show legally beyond reasonable doubt tough because you have to show - legally beyond reasonable doubt that trump _ legally beyond reasonable doubt that trump intended — legally beyond reasonable doubt that trump intended for— legally beyond reasonable doubt that trump intended for to _ legally beyond reasonable doubt that trump intended for to occur. - legally beyond reasonable doubt that trump intended for to occur. what i legally beyond reasonable doubt that trump intended for to occur. what it| trump intended for to occur. what it seems _ trump intended for to occur. what it seems like _ trump intended for to occur. what it seems like instead _ trump intended for to occur. what it seems like instead we _ trump intended for to occur. what it seems like instead we are _ trump intended for to occur. what it seems like instead we are looking i trump intended for to occur. what it seems like instead we are looking at is a more _ seems like instead we are looking at is a more complicated _ seems like instead we are looking at is a more complicated legal- seems like instead we are looking at is a more complicated legal theory. is a more complicated legal theory that he _ is a more complicated legal theory that he took— is a more complicated legal theory that he took actions _ is a more complicated legal theory that he took actions starting - is a more complicated legal theory that he took actions starting with i that he took actions starting with election— that he took actions starting with election day. _ that he took actions starting with election day, 2020, _ that he took actions starting with election day, 2020, through i that he took actions starting with election day, 2020, through and| election day, 2020, through and continuing — election day, 2020, through and continuing to _ election day, 2020, through and continuing to january— election day, 2020, through and continuing to january 6, - election day, 2020, through and continuing to january 6, where l election day, 2020, through andl continuing to january 6, where he took— continuing to january 6, where he took steps — continuing to january 6, where he took steps to _ continuing to january 6, where he took steps to basically— continuing to january 6, where he took steps to basically impede i continuing to january 6, where hel took steps to basically impede the ratification — took steps to basically impede the ratification of— took steps to basically impede the ratification of the _ took steps to basically impede the ratification of the election, - took steps to basically impede the ratification of the election, to i ratification of the election, to stop— ratification of the election, to stop congress. _ ratification of the election, to stop congress, both - ratification of the election, to stop congress, both at - ratification of the election, to stop congress, both at the i ratification of the election, to i stop congress, both at the state level— stop congress, both at the state level and — stop congress, both at the state level and the _ stop congress, both at the state level and the federal— stop congress, both at the state level and the federal level, i stop congress, both at the state j level and the federal level, from validating — level and the federal level, from validating the _ level and the federal level, from validating the accurate _ level and the federal level, from validating the accurate results i level and the federal level, from j validating the accurate results of the election _ validating the accurate results of the election. that— validating the accurate results of the election. that is— validating the accurate results of the election. that is what- validating the accurate results of the election. that is what it i validating the accurate results of l the election. that is what it seems like. _ the election. that is what it seems like, accommodation _ the election. that is what it seems like, accommodation of _ the election. that is what it seems like, accommodation of fraud i the election. that is what it seems like, accommodation of fraud andl like, accommodation of fraud and perhaps— like, accommodation of fraud and perhaps civil _ like, accommodation of fraud and perhaps civil rights _ like, accommodation of fraud and perhaps civil rights laws, - like, accommodation of fraud and perhaps civil rights laws, the i perhaps civil rights laws, the theory — perhaps civil rights laws, the

theory here~ _ perhaps civil rights laws, the theory here. if— perhaps civil rights laws, the theory here-— perhaps civil rights laws, the theo here. ., ., theory here. if we dig down into these accounts, _ theory here. if we dig down into these accounts, can _ theory here. if we dig down into these accounts, can you - theory here. if we dig down into these accounts, can you tell- theory here. if we dig down into these accounts, can you tell us| these accounts, can you tell us where you think the evidence is that we might see? because we know that the general recess committee in the house of representatives, the select committee looking into the riot, they they laid out a whole body of evidence —— the january 6 committee. they had no legal ramifications but they had suggestions for the department ofjustice. do you think the special counsel had to evidence that they could present? thea;r the special counsel had to evidence that they could present? they might. the had that they could present? they might. they had quite _ that they could present? they might. they had quite a _ that they could present? they might. they had quite a bit _ that they could present? they might. they had quite a bit of— that they could present? they might. they had quite a bit of time - that they could present? they might. they had quite a bit of time to - they had quite a bit of time to review— they had quite a bit of time to review and _ they had quite a bit of time to review and investigate - they had quite a bit of time to review and investigate and i they had quite a bit of time to i review and investigate and pressure test the _ review and investigate and pressure test the evidence _ review and investigate and pressure test the evidence that _ review and investigate and pressure test the evidence that was - review and investigate and pressure test the evidence that was broughtl test the evidence that was brought forward _ test the evidence that was brought forward by— test the evidence that was brought forward by the _ test the evidence that was brought forward by the january— test the evidence that was brought forward by the january 6 _ test the evidence that was brought i forward by the january 6 commission. of forward by the january 6 commission. of course _ forward by the january 6 commission. of course but — forward by the january 6 commission. of course but was _ forward by the january 6 commission. of course but was not _ forward by the january 6 commission. of course but was not present - forward by the january 6 commission. of course but was not present duringl of course but was not present during those _ of course but was not present during those committee _ of course but was not present during those committee hearings _ of course but was not present during those committee hearings was - of course but was not present during those committee hearings was a i those committee hearings was a defence — those committee hearings was a defence counsel, _ those committee hearings was a defence counsel, and _ those committee hearings was a defence counsel, and so- those committee hearings was a . defence counsel, and so whenever prosecutors — defence counsel, and so whenever prosecutors decide _ defence counsel, and so whenever prosecutors decide whether- defence counsel, and so whenever prosecutors decide whether to i defence counsel, and so whenever. prosecutors decide whether to bring charges. _ prosecutors decide whether to bring charges. they— prosecutors decide whether to bring charges, they have _ prosecutors decide whether to bring charges, they have to _ prosecutors decide whether to bring charges, they have to realise - prosecutors decide whether to bring charges, they have to realise it i prosecutors decide whether to bring charges, they have to realise it is i charges, they have to realise it is never _ charges, they have to realise it is never a _ charges, they have to realise it is never a one—sided _ charges, they have to realise it is never a one—sided show, - charges, they have to realise it is never a one—sided show, there i charges, they have to realise it is never a one—sided show, there isj never a one—sided show, there is going _ never a one—sided show, there is going to — never a one—sided show, there is going to be — never a one—sided show, there is going to be an— never a one—sided show, there is going to be an opposite - never a one—sided show, there is going to be an opposite party- never a one—sided show, there is| going to be an opposite party that is poking — going to be an opposite party that is poking holes— going to be an opposite party that is poking holes in— going to be an opposite party that is poking holes in your— going to be an opposite party that is poking holes in your theory, i going to be an opposite party thati is poking holes in your theory, and so while _ is poking holes in your theory, and so while the — is poking holes in your theory, and so while the january— is poking holes in your theory, and so while the january 6 _ is poking holes in your theory, and so while the january 6 commissionj so while the january 6 commission was very— so while the january 6 commission was very well— so while the january 6 commission was very well presented, - so while the january 6 commission was very well presented, very- so while the january 6 commission

was very well presented, very well staged. _ was very well presented, very well staged. there _ was very well presented, very well staged, there was— was very well presented, very well staged, there was no— was very well presented, very well staged, there was no trump- was very well presented, very well. staged, there was no trump defence lawyer— staged, there was no trump defence lawyer there — staged, there was no trump defence lawyer there punching _ staged, there was no trump defence lawyer there punching back- staged, there was no trump defence lawyer there punching back and i staged, there was no trump defence lawyer there punching back and so . staged, there was no trump defence lawyer there punching back and so ii lawyer there punching back and so i am sure _ lawyer there punching back and so i am sure when— lawyer there punching back and so i am sure when the _ lawyer there punching back and so i am sure when the prosecutors i lawyer there punching back and so i i am sure when the prosecutors thought it through. _ am sure when the prosecutors thought it through. they— am sure when the prosecutors thought it through, they want _ am sure when the prosecutors thought it through, they want to _ am sure when the prosecutors thought it through, they want to move - it through, they want to move forward — it through, they want to move forward with— it through, they want to move forward with four— it through, they want to move forward with four charges i it through, they want to move forward with four charges that it through, they want to move i forward with four charges that they feel they— forward with four charges that they feel they can — forward with four charges that they feel they can prove _ forward with four charges that they feel they can prove beyond - forward with four charges that they feel they can prove beyond a - feel they can prove beyond a reasonable _ feel they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt _ feel they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt before - feel they can prove beyond a reasonable doubt before a l feel they can prove beyond a l reasonable doubt before a jury feel they can prove beyond a - reasonable doubt before a jury and with a _ reasonable doubt before a jury and with a defence _ reasonable doubt before a jury and with a defence by— reasonable doubt before a jury and with a defence by the _ reasonable doubt before a jury and with a defence by the other- reasonable doubt before a jury and with a defence by the other side. l with a defence by the other side. one thing — with a defence by the other side. one thing we _ with a defence by the other side. one thing we saw— with a defence by the other side. one thing we saw the _ with a defence by the other side. one thing we saw the former- one thing we saw the former president mentioned in one of his posts was the question of why did they not do this to end a half years ago? what about the fact that this took a little bit longer to actually bring these charges against the former president? 50. bring these charges against the former president?— bring these charges against the former president? so, look, federal investigations, _ former president? so, look, federal investigations, prosecutions, - former president? so, look, federal investigations, prosecutions, are i investigations, prosecutions, are never— investigations, prosecutions, are never speedy? _ investigations, prosecutions, are never speedy? we _ investigations, prosecutions, are never speedy? we are _ investigations, prosecutions, are never speedy? we are never- investigations, prosecutions, are - never speedy? we are never accused of being _ never speedy? we are never accused of being fast — never speedy? we are never accused of being fast and— never speedy? we are never accused of being fast and what _ never speedy? we are never accused of being fast and what we _ never speedy? we are never accused of being fast and what we do - never speedy? we are never accused of being fast and what we do and - of being fast and what we do and some _ of being fast and what we do and some think— of being fast and what we do and some think of _ of being fast and what we do and some think of this _ of being fast and what we do and some think of this magnitude - some think of this magnitude involving _ some think of this magnitude involving a _ some think of this magnitude involving a person _ some think of this magnitude involving a person of- some think of this magnitude involving a person of such - involving a person of such prominence _ involving a person of such prominence is— involving a person of such prominence is going - involving a person of such prominence is going to. involving a person of such l prominence is going to take involving a person of such - prominence is going to take a wild to get— prominence is going to take a wild to get it _ prominence is going to take a wild to get it right _ prominence is going to take a wild to get it right. the _ prominence is going to take a wild to get it right. the downside - prominence is going to take a wild to get it right. the downside of. to get it right. the downside of course — to get it right. the downside of course to— to get it right. the downside of course to the _ to get it right. the downside of course to the timing _ to get it right. the downside of course to the timing here - to get it right. the downside of course to the timing here is - to get it right. the downside ofi course to the timing here is that president — course to the timing here is that president trump _ course to the timing here is that president trump is _ course to the timing here is that president trump is now- course to the timing here is that president trump is now going i course to the timing here is that president trump is now going to course to the timing here is that - president trump is now going to say this is— president trump is now going to say this is a _ president trump is now going to say this is a political— president trump is now going to say this is a political move _ president trump is now going to say this is a political move that - president trump is now going to say this is a political move that date - this is a political move that date set on— this is a political move that date set on this — this is a political move that date sat on this for _ this is a political move that date sat on this for two _ this is a political move that date

sat on this for two years - this is a political move that date sat on this for two years and - this is a political move that date l sat on this for two years and now, only on the — sat on this for two years and now, only on the eve _ sat on this for two years and now, only on the eve of _ sat on this for two years and now, only on the eve of him _ sat on this for two years and now, only on the eve of him effectively| only on the eve of him effectively become _ only on the eve of him effectively become of— only on the eve of him effectively become of the _ only on the eve of him effectively become of the republican - only on the eve of him effectively i become of the republican nominee only on the eve of him effectively - become of the republican nominee in next year's _ become of the republican nominee in next year's election, _ become of the republican nominee in next year's election, are _ become of the republican nominee in next year's election, are they- next year's election, are they hitting — next year's election, are they hitting him _ next year's election, are they hitting him with _ next year's election, are they hitting him with these - next year's election, are they hitting him with these countsj next year's election, are they- hitting him with these counts and pushing _ hitting him with these counts and pushing for— hitting him with these counts and pushing for a _ hitting him with these counts and pushing for a trial. _ hitting him with these counts and pushing for a trial. those - hitting him with these counts and pushing for a trial. those are - pushing for a trial. those are political— pushing for a trial. those are political arguments, - pushing for a trial. those are political arguments, they- pushing for a trial. those are political arguments, they are pushing for a trial. those are - political arguments, they are not legal— political arguments, they are not legal ones. — political arguments, they are not legal ones. but _ political arguments, they are not legal ones, but you _ political arguments, they are not legal ones, but you can - political arguments, they are not legal ones, but you can bet - political arguments, they are not legal ones, but you can bet we . political arguments, they are not i legal ones, but you can bet we are going to _ legal ones, but you can bet we are going to be — legal ones, but you can bet we are going to be seeing _ legal ones, but you can bet we are going to be seeing a lot— legal ones, but you can bet we are going to be seeing a lot of- legal ones, but you can bet we are going to be seeing a lot of that - going to be seeing a lot of that from _ going to be seeing a lot of that from donald _ going to be seeing a lot of that from donald trump _ going to be seeing a lot of that from donald trump both- going to be seeing a lot of that from donald trump both on- going to be seeing a lot of that i from donald trump both on social media _ from donald trump both on social media and — from donald trump both on social media and traditional— from donald trump both on social media and traditional media - from donald trump both on social media and traditional media in- from donald trump both on social| media and traditional media in the conring _ media and traditional media in the conring weeks _ media and traditional media in the coming weeks and _ media and traditional media in the coming weeks and months. - media and traditional media in the coming weeks and months. ipith:- media and traditional media in the coming weeks and months. we have been of course _ coming weeks and months. we have been of course talk _ coming weeks and months. we have been of course talk about _ coming weeks and months. we have been of course talk about the - been of course talk about the previous indictment and trial dates are set for in 202a. right in the middle of the campaign. can you give us a sense of when we might see this case? we know the arraignment is set to take place in dc on thursday. when this case might possibly go to trial? . , , , ~ trial? the immediate steps, like indictment _ trial? the immediate steps, like indictment and _ trial? the immediate steps, like indictment and arraignment - trial? the immediate steps, like indictment and arraignment that trial? the immediate steps, like - indictment and arraignment that they can happen _ indictment and arraignment that they can happen in— indictment and arraignment that they can happen in quick— indictment and arraignment that they can happen in quick succession, - indictment and arraignment that they can happen in quick succession, but. can happen in quick succession, but after— can happen in quick succession, but after that— can happen in quick succession, but after that you — can happen in quick succession, but after that you can _ can happen in quick succession, but after that you can expect _ can happen in quick succession, but after that you can expect it - can happen in quick succession, but after that you can expect it is- after that you can expect it is going — after that you can expect it is going to _ after that you can expect it is going to be _ after that you can expect it is going to be a _ after that you can expect it is going to be a long _ after that you can expect it is going to be a long time. - after that you can expect it is| going to be a long time. even after that you can expect it is. going to be a long time. even if after that you can expect it is- going to be a long time. even if you did not— going to be a long time. even if you did not have — going to be a long time. even if you did not have an— going to be a long time. even if you did not have an election _ going to be a long time. even if you did not have an election next - going to be a long time. even if you did not have an election next year, i did not have an election next year, ithink— did not have an election next year, i think it _ did not have an election next year, i think it would — did not have an election next year, i think it would be _ did not have an election next year, i think it would be aggressive - did not have an election next year, i think it would be aggressive for l i think it would be aggressive for either— i think it would be aggressive for either the — i think it would be aggressive for either the mar—a—lago _ i think it would be aggressive for. either the mar—a—lago documents i think it would be aggressive for - either the mar—a—lago documents case or now— either the mar—a—lago documents case or now this— either the mar—a—lago documents case or now this januarv _ either the mar—a—lago documents case or now this january 6 _

either the mar—a—lago documents case or now this january 6 case _ either the mar—a—lago documents case or now this january 6 case to _ either the mar—a—lago documents case or now this january 6 case to go - either the mar—a—lago documents case or now this january 6 case to go to - or now this january 6 case to go to trial in— or now this january 6 case to go to trial in the — or now this january 6 case to go to trial in the course _ or now this january 6 case to go to trial in the course of— or now this january 6 case to go to trial in the course of 18 _ or now this january 6 case to go to trial in the course of 18 months. i do not _ trial in the course of 18 months. i do not think— trial in the course of 18 months. i do not think it — trial in the course of 18 months. i do not think it is _ trial in the course of 18 months. i do not think it is going _ trial in the course of 18 months. i do not think it is going to - trial in the course of 18 months. i do not think it is going to happenj do not think it is going to happen even _ do not think it is going to happen even under— do not think it is going to happen even under normal— do not think it is going to happen even under normal conditions. i do not think it is going to happen. even under normal conditions. with an election — even under normal conditions. with an election happening _ even under normal conditions. with an election happening in _ even under normal conditions. with an election happening in the - an election happening in the background. _ an election happening in the background, i— an election happening in the background, i cannot- an election happening in the i background, i cannot imagine an election happening in the - background, i cannot imagine that the judge — background, i cannot imagine that the judge is— background, i cannot imagine that the judge is responsible _ background, i cannot imagine that the judge is responsible for- background, i cannot imagine that the judge is responsible for these| the judge is responsible for these cases— the judge is responsible for these cases are — the judge is responsible for these cases are going _ the judge is responsible for these cases are going to _ the judge is responsible for these cases are going to want _ the judge is responsible for these cases are going to want to - the judge is responsible for these cases are going to want to drag . the judge is responsible for these i cases are going to want to drag the defendant— cases are going to want to drag the defendant in— cases are going to want to drag the defendant in from _ cases are going to want to drag the defendant in from the _ cases are going to want to drag the defendant in from the campaign. cases are going to want to drag the. defendant in from the campaign trail to sit for— defendant in from the campaign trail to sit for a _ defendant in from the campaign trail to sit for a trial. _ defendant in from the campaign trail to sit for a trial. a _ defendant in from the campaign trail to sit for a trial. a defendant - defendant in from the campaign trail to sit for a trial. a defendant has - to sit for a trial. a defendant has a right— to sit for a trial. a defendant has a right and — to sit for a trial. a defendant has a right and abilities _ to sit for a trial. a defendant has a right and abilities to _ to sit for a trial. a defendant has a right and abilities to ask- to sit for a trial. a defendant has a right and abilities to ask for- a right and abilities to ask for extensions. _ a right and abilities to ask for extensions, to— a right and abilities to ask for extensions, to ask _ a right and abilities to ask for extensions, to ask for - a right and abilities to ask for| extensions, to ask for delays, a right and abilities to ask for- extensions, to ask for delays, and so i extensions, to ask for delays, and so i think— extensions, to ask for delays, and so i think now— extensions, to ask for delays, and so i think now that _ extensions, to ask for delays, and so i think now that there - extensions, to ask for delays, and so i think now that there are - extensions, to ask for delays, and so i think now that there are two i so i think now that there are two cases against _ so i think now that there are two cases against donald _ so i think now that there are two cases against donald trump, - so i think now that there are two cases against donald trump, ati so i think now that there are two i cases against donald trump, at the federat— cases against donald trump, at the federal level— cases against donald trump, at the federal level and _ cases against donald trump, at the federal level and others _ cases against donald trump, at the federal level and others perhaps i cases against donald trump, at the federal level and others perhaps at| federal level and others perhaps at the state _ federal level and others perhaps at the state level, _ federal level and others perhaps at the state level, i— federal level and others perhaps at the state level, i do— federal level and others perhaps at the state level, i do not— federal level and others perhaps at the state level, i do not think- federal level and others perhaps at the state level, i do not think any. the state level, i do not think any of these — the state level, i do not think any of these go — the state level, i do not think any of these go to _ the state level, i do not think any of these go to trial _ the state level, i do not think any of these go to trial before - the state level, i do not think any. of these go to trial before november of these go to trial before november of next _ of these go to trial before november of next year — of these go to trial before november of next year-— of next year. coming back to these char: es, of next year. coming back to these charges. is — of next year. coming back to these charges. is a _ of next year. coming back to these charges, is a fairly _ of next year. coming back to these charges, is a fairly broad _ of next year. coming back to these charges, is a fairly broad statutes, | charges, is a fairly broad statutes, so what does this allow the prosecutors to do in trying this case? , . ., . ., prosecutors to do in trying this case? , ., ., ., ., _, prosecutors to do in trying this case? , . ., . ., _, , case? they are going have to come up with some interesting _ case? they are going have to come up with some interesting theories. - case? they are going have to come up with some interesting theories. and . with some interesting theories. and ithink— with some interesting theories. and i think when— with some interesting theories. and i think when the _ with some interesting theories. and i think when the next _ with some interesting theories. and i think when the next few _ with some interesting theories. and i think when the next few hours, - i think when the next few hours, once _ i think when the next few hours, once we — i think when the next few hours, once we are _ i think when the next few hours, once we are able _ i think when the next few hours, once we are able to _ i think when the next few hours, once we are able to absorb - i think when the next few hours, once we are able to absorb the l once we are able to absorb the indictment. _ once we are able to absorb the indictment, we _ once we are able to absorb the indictment, we will— once we are able to absorb the indictment, we will be - once we are able to absorb the indictment, we will be able - once we are able to absorb the indictment, we will be able toi indictment, we will be able to discern— indictment, we will be able to discern a _ indictment, we will be able to discern a little _ indictment, we will be able to discern a little more - indictment, we will be able to discern a little more about. indictment, we will be able to. discern a little more about what their— discern a little more about what their theories— discern a little more about what their theories are. _ discern a little more about what their theories are. it _ discern a little more about what their theories are. it sounds - discern a little more about what| their theories are. it sounds like they're —

their theories are. it sounds like they're using _ their theories are. it sounds like they're using broad _ their theories are. it sounds like they're using broad concepts - their theories are. it sounds like they're using broad concepts ofi they're using broad concepts of fraud, — they're using broad concepts of fraud, basically— they're using broad concepts of fraud, basically the _ they're using broad concepts of fraud, basically the donald - they're using broad concepts of. fraud, basically the donald trump knew— fraud, basically the donald trump knew he _ fraud, basically the donald trump knew he lost— fraud, basically the donald trump knew he lost the _ fraud, basically the donald trump knew he lost the election - fraud, basically the donald trump knew he lost the election and - knew he lost the election and despite — knew he lost the election and despite that _ knew he lost the election and despite that he _ knew he lost the election and despite that he deceitfully. knew he lost the election and i despite that he deceitfully took steps _ despite that he deceitfully took steps to— despite that he deceitfully took steps to get— despite that he deceitfully took steps to get the _ despite that he deceitfully took steps to get the election - despite that he deceitfully took . steps to get the election changed despite that he deceitfully took - steps to get the election changed in his favour~ — steps to get the election changed in his favour. that _ steps to get the election changed in his favour. that requires _ steps to get the election changed in his favour. that requires a - steps to get the election changed in his favour. that requires a few - his favour. that requires a few things — his favour. that requires a few things the _ his favour. that requires a few things. the prosecution - his favour. that requires a few things. the prosecution will. his favour. that requires a few . things. the prosecution will have his favour. that requires a few - things. the prosecution will have to show— things. the prosecution will have to show that— things. the prosecution will have to show that the — things. the prosecution will have to show that the fraud _ things. the prosecution will have to show that the fraud statute - things. the prosecution will have to show that the fraud statute apply i show that the fraud statute apply here and — show that the fraud statute apply here and there _ show that the fraud statute apply here and there are _ show that the fraud statute apply here and there are some - show that the fraud statute apply i here and there are some questions about— here and there are some questions about when— here and there are some questions about when the _ here and there are some questions about when the fraud, _ here and there are some questions about when the fraud, how- here and there are some questions about when the fraud, how the - here and there are some questions i about when the fraud, how the fraud statute. _ about when the fraud, how the fraud statute. can — about when the fraud, how the fraud statute. can be — about when the fraud, how the fraud statute, can be used, _ about when the fraud, how the fraud statute, can be used, they— about when the fraud, how the fraud statute, can be used, they also- about when the fraud, how the fraud statute, can be used, they also have to prove _ statute, can be used, they also have to prove that — statute, can be used, they also have to prove that donald _ statute, can be used, they also have to prove that donald trump - statute, can be used, they also have to prove that donald trump knew- statute, can be used, they also have to prove that donald trump knew he| to prove that donald trump knew he lost, and _ to prove that donald trump knew he lost, and we — to prove that donald trump knew he lost, and we can— to prove that donald trump knew he lost, and we can say— to prove that donald trump knew he lost, and we can say that based - to prove that donald trump knew he lost, and we can say that based not| lost, and we can say that based not all of— lost, and we can say that based not all of the _ lost, and we can say that based not all of the evidence _ lost, and we can say that based not all of the evidence that _ lost, and we can say that based not all of the evidence that we - lost, and we can say that based not all of the evidence that we have - all of the evidence that we have heard, — all of the evidence that we have heard, a — all of the evidence that we have heard, a rational— all of the evidence that we have heard, a rational person- all of the evidence that we have heard, a rational person should| all of the evidence that we have - heard, a rational person should have known _ heard, a rational person should have known he _ heard, a rational person should have known he lost — heard, a rational person should have known he lost the _ heard, a rational person should have known he lost the 2020 _ heard, a rational person should have known he lost the 2020 election, - heard, a rational person should have| known he lost the 2020 election, but it is not _ known he lost the 2020 election, but it is not what — known he lost the 2020 election, but it is not what a — known he lost the 2020 election, but it is not what a rational— known he lost the 2020 election, but it is not what a rational person - it is not what a rational person thought. — it is not what a rational person thought. it _ it is not what a rational person thought. it is— it is not what a rational person thought, it is what _ it is not what a rational person thought, it is what the - it is not what a rational person i thought, it is what the defendant thought. — thought, it is what the defendant thought. and _ thought, it is what the defendant thought, and donald _ thought, it is what the defendant thought, and donald trump, - thought, it is what the defendant thought, and donald trump, i. thought, it is what the defendant| thought, and donald trump, iam thought, it is what the defendant - thought, and donald trump, i am sure he is going _ thought, and donald trump, i am sure he is going to — thought, and donald trump, i am sure he is going to say— thought, and donald trump, i am sure he is going to say that _ thought, and donald trump, i am sure he is going to say that i— he is going to say that i really thought— he is going to say that i really thought i_ he is going to say that i really thought i won _ he is going to say that i really thought i won the _ he is going to say that i really thought i won the election - he is going to say that i really thought i won the election ini he is going to say that i really- thought i won the election in 2020 and therefore _ thought i won the election in 2020 and therefore i— thought i won the election in 2020 and therefore i am _ thought i won the election in 2020 and therefore i am not _ thought i won the election in 2020 and therefore i am not defrauding | and therefore i am not defrauding anvbodv — and therefore i am not defrauding anvbodv i— and therefore i am not defrauding anvbodv. iwas— and therefore i am not defrauding anybody. i was just _ and therefore i am not defrauding anybody. i was just fighting - and therefore i am not defrauding anybody. i was just fighting for. and therefore i am not defrauding | anybody. i was just fighting for my rights, _ anybody. i was just fighting for my rights, and — anybody. i was just fighting for my rights, and i— anybody. i was just fighting for my rights, and i can— anybody. i was just fighting for my rights, and i can see _ anybody. i was just fighting for my rights, and i can see that- rights, and i can see that playing out, _ rights, and i can see that playing out, and — rights, and i can see that playing out, and it— rights, and i can see that playing out, and it might— rights, and i can see that playing out, and it might sound - rights, and i can see that playing out, and it might sound a - rights, and i can see that playing out, and it might sound a little . out, and it might sound a little sittv. _ out, and it might sound a little silly. but— out, and it might sound a little silly, but legally _ out, and it might sound a little silly, but legally the _ out, and it might sound a little i silly, but legally the prosecution coutd _ silly, but legally the prosecution could have — silly, but legally the prosecution could have a _ silly, but legally the prosecution could have a struggle _ silly, but legally the prosecution could have a struggle on- silly, but legally the prosecution could have a struggle on their. silly, but legally the prosecution - could have a struggle on their hands

with this _ could have a struggle on their hands with this one — could have a struggle on their hands with this one-— with this one. interesting to note also that more _ with this one. interesting to note also that more than _ with this one. interesting to note also that more than 1100 - with this one. interesting to note also that more than 1100 riotersl also that more than 1100 rioters themselves have actually been charged for their actions onjerry six by the department ofjustice and in their statements many of them actually named the former president so let's see how that adds to the prosecution public evidence and the trial they put forth. stay right there, i wanted to get closer look at the man spearheading the special counsel behind the trump investigation, jackson is. he is an independent lawyer. he was appointed to oversee the us department ofjustice's criminal investigations into former president donald trump. he's a former new york prosecutor and most recently served as a chief prosecutor in the hague — where he investigated war crimes in kosovo. he was also named special counsel by attorney general merrick garland in november 2022, with garland saying at the time that it was in the public�*s interest to have a special counsel run the investigation and any prosecution. let's bring doug heye back in,

because we have seenjack smith under an immense amount of pressure here, haven't we? find under an immense amount of pressure here. haven't we?— here, haven't we? and pressure from all sides. here, haven't we? and pressure from all sides- we — here, haven't we? and pressure from all sides. we have _ here, haven't we? and pressure from all sides. we have also _ here, haven't we? and pressure from all sides. we have also seen - here, haven't we? and pressure from all sides. we have also seen this - all sides. we have also seen this from, aim to come at the departing ofjustice. if you talk from, aim to come at the departing of justice. if you talk to democrats, quite often they said merrick garland is moving too slothful if you talk to republicans, they say merrick garland is moving too fast. we are going to see an increase in its scrutiny, notjust on jack smith increase in its scrutiny, notjust onjack smith but on what the case ultimately is and what the evidence and just exactly right and just exactly right in what donald trump saysis exactly right in what donald trump says is going to really matter here and whether or not he says he believes that he won. whether or not he believes that he won is also a separate question from whether he says that. there is a famous line from the old show seinfeld where george can stanza tellsjerry, it is not a lie if you believe it, and thatis not a lie if you believe it, and that is certainly one of the ways that is certainly one of the ways that donald trump is publicly going to operate here and saying that he fully believes that he won even if he does not believe that internally

or maybe he does. that is part of the things we don't know about donald trump and schizo also of the things thatjoe talked about of which is the unprecedented nature of taking these things to trial —— and thatis taking these things to trial —— and that is also where. taking things on and off the campaign trail is another thing we've never seen in our american political or legal system. we have also not seen a sitting president be held accountable in a trial and if donald trump runs and wins and pulling today has him tied withjoe biden for the new york times, 43% each, which means donald trump could win, certainly we get into various questions about what moves forward in a legal sense. does donald trump pardon himself? and and anything thatis pardon himself? and and anything that is tried on him on a federal level? that does not apply on the state level. what happens on a state level and what happens if donald trump is found guilty? we've a lot more questions than we have answers and i think that is probably going

to continue over the coming months. those are the interesting points. we are just looking at live pictures of the courthouse here in dc as you been talking. we are at some point expecting to hear from the special counseljack smith, but, doug, just a bit more on the political implications of all this in the short—term, because you are talking about the fact that if you look at recent polling at the moment, donald trump really does have a commanding lead over all his republican rivals for the nomination for the presidency stopped he is also raised a whole off of this... he presidency stopped he is also raised a whole off of this. . ._ a whole off of this. .. he sure has. he's it raised _ a whole off of this. .. he sure has. he's it raised a _ a whole off of this. .. he sure has. he's it raised a lot of— a whole off of this. .. he sure has. he's it raised a lot of that - a whole off of this. .. he sure has. he's it raised a lot of that moneyl he's it raised a lot of that money to pay for the lawyers. you click or you write a check to donald trump's super pack in big parts paying his lawyers. donald trump has free legal advice in this case, but we have seen is every time there's been an indictment republic and opponents have short of donald trump's rhetoric on this and talking about it being political or talking about it being political or talking about it being political or talking about it being a two—tiered system of government or that donald trump is

an unfairvictim ora government or that donald trump is an unfair victim or a martyr in this case. typically in politics and this is stating the obvious, when your opponent is indicted, it is a very bad day for them, it is about event, and some thing that you can use to hammer your opponent. her publicans by and large are not doing that in this case. it is one of the reasons, this case. it is one of the reasons, this is a bit of a chicken and egg situation, one of the causes and one the reasons republican primary opponents of donald trump have been very hesitant to use these charges against him. taste very hesitant to use these charges against him-— very hesitant to use these charges auainst him. ~ . ,, ., . against him. we also know the white house and president _ against him. we also know the white house and president biden _ against him. we also know the white house and president biden himself i house and president biden himself have not commented and said he will not comment, that which onx pecked and he sort of formal statement. he did condemn the riot onjanuary 6 but he will not comment on this specific case stub see we can pull up... we are waiting there forjack smith, the special counsel. those are the images of that press conference we are expecting to take place. we understand it is going to

bejust a statement place. we understand it is going to be just a statement and that the special counsel likely is not going to be taking questions, so less of the press conference and more of a quick statement, which is exactly what we saw in the last indictment as well on the mishandling of classified documents. but let's see if we can bring up now once again the indictment, because i want to make sure that we can see what those charges are again. here they are. just to remind our viewers. donald trump indicted on this federal case, investigation into the generally six riot in efforts to subvert the election results. there they are... —— january ——january6 —— january 6 riot. let's bring joe marino back in for that legal perspective because how unprecedented are these specific charges that we saw the grand jury hand down? charges that we saw the grand “my hand down?— hand down? first off, i got to say, the fact that _ hand down? first off, i got to say, the fact that l _ hand down? first off, i got to say, the fact that i know _ hand down? first off, i got to say, the fact that i know the _

the fact that i know the seinfeld guote _ the fact that i know the seinfeld quote that— the fact that i know the seinfeld quote that doug _ the fact that i know the seinfeld quote that doug just _ the fact that i know the seinfeld quote that doug just made - the fact that i know the seinfeld quote that doug just made a - the fact that i know the seinfeld| quote that doug just made a few nrinutes— quote that doug just made a few minutes agom _ quote that doug just made a few minutes ago... it _ quote that doug just made a few minutes ago... it is _ quote that doug just made a few minutes ago... it is perfect - quote that doug just made a few minutes ago... it is perfect for. minutes ago... it is perfect for some — minutes ago... it is perfect for some it — minutes ago... it is perfect for some it is _ minutes ago... it is perfect for some it is spot— minutes ago... it is perfect for some it is spot on. _ minutes ago... it is perfect for some it is spot on. look, - minutes ago... it is perfect for some it is spot on. look, none minutes ago... it is perfect for. some it is spot on. look, none of this is— some it is spot on. look, none of this is precedented, _ some it is spot on. look, none of this is precedented, and - some it is spot on. look, none of this is precedented, and so- some it is spot on. look, none of this is precedented, and so it is i this is precedented, and so it is interesting _ this is precedented, and so it is interesting that— this is precedented, and so it is interesting that two _ this is precedented, and so it is interesting that two of- this is precedented, and so it is interesting that two of the - this is precedented, and so it is interesting that two of the four| interesting that two of the four counts — interesting that two of the four counts have _ interesting that two of the four counts have to _ interesting that two of the four counts have to do _ interesting that two of the four counts have to do with - interesting that two of the four counts have to do with fraud, i counts have to do with fraud, basically— counts have to do with fraud, basically defrauding - counts have to do with fraud, basically defrauding the - counts have to do with fraud, i basically defrauding the united states — basically defrauding the united states here _ basically defrauding the united states. here is _ basically defrauding the united states. here is why— basically defrauding the united states. here is why think - basically defrauding the united states. here is why think that. basically defrauding the united | states. here is why think that is potentially _ states. here is why think that is potentially problematic. - states. here is why think that is potentially problematic. the - states. here is why think that is - potentially problematic. the supreme court has _ potentially problematic. the supreme court has held — potentially problematic. the supreme court has held that _ potentially problematic. the supreme court has held that when _ potentially problematic. the supreme court has held that when you - potentially problematic. the supreme court has held that when you charge i court has held that when you charge fraud _ court has held that when you charge fraud it _ court has held that when you charge fraud it has — court has held that when you charge fraud it has to— court has held that when you charge fraud it has to be _ court has held that when you charge fraud it has to be financial— court has held that when you charge fraud it has to be financial fraud - fraud it has to be financial fraud or some — fraud it has to be financial fraud or some kind _ fraud it has to be financial fraud or some kind of— fraud it has to be financial fraud or some kind of property- fraud it has to be financial fraud or some kind of property fraud. | or some kind of property fraud. basically— or some kind of property fraud. basically you're _ or some kind of property fraud. basically you're stealing - or some kind of property fraud. basically you're stealing from l or some kind of property fraud. l basically you're stealing from the us government _ basically you're stealing from the us government something - basically you're stealing from the us government something of- basically you're stealing from the i us government something of value also they— us government something of value also they have _ us government something of value also they have not, _ us government something of value also they have not, the _ us government something of value also they have not, the supreme . also they have not, the supreme court _ also they have not, the supreme court has — also they have not, the supreme court has not _ also they have not, the supreme court has not been _ also they have not, the supreme court has not been very- also they have not, the supreme court has not been very open - also they have not, the supreme court has not been very open to| court has not been very open to prosecutor— court has not been very open to prosecutor stretching _ court has not been very open to prosecutor stretching that - prosecutor stretching that definition _ prosecutor stretching that definition of— prosecutor stretching that definition of fraud - prosecutor stretching that definition of fraud to - prosecutor stretching that - definition of fraud to something like this, — definition of fraud to something like this, defrauding _ definition of fraud to something like this, defrauding of- definition of fraud to something like this, defrauding of an - definition of fraud to something. like this, defrauding of an election results _ like this, defrauding of an election results of— like this, defrauding of an election results of the _ like this, defrauding of an election results of the along _ like this, defrauding of an election results of the along those - like this, defrauding of an election results of the along those lines . results of the along those lines comes— results of the along those lines comes right _ results of the along those lines comes right off— results of the along those lines comes right off the _ results of the along those lines comes right off the bat - results of the along those lines comes right off the bat i - results of the along those lines comes right off the bat i am i results of the along those lines i comes right off the bat i am really interest— comes right off the bat i am really interest you — comes right off the bat i am really interest you see _ comes right off the bat i am really interest you see how _ comes right off the bat i am really interest you see how the - comes right off the bat i am really. interest you see how the prosecution will put _ interest you see how the prosecution will put together— interest you see how the prosecution will put together their— interest you see how the prosecution will put together their legal - interest you see how the prosecution will put together their legal theory i will put together their legal theory —— | will put together their legal theory -- i am _ will put together their legal theory -- iam really— will put together their legal theory —— i am really interest— will put together their legal theory —— i am really interest to - will put together their legal theory —— i am really interest to see. - will put together their legal theory —— i am really interest to see. it. —— i am really interest to see. it might— —— i am really interest to see. it might be a— —— i am really interest to see. it might be a bit— —— i am really interest to see. it might be a bit of— —— i am really interest to see. it might be a bit of an _ —— i am really interest to see. it might be a bit of an uphill- —— i am really interest to see. iti might be a bit of an uphill battle. as doug — might be a bit of an uphill battle. as doug set _ might be a bit of an uphill battle. as doug set we've _ might be a bit of an uphill battle. as doug set we've never- might be a bit of an uphill battle. as doug set we've never seen- might be a bit of an uphill battle. - as doug set we've never seen charges against _ as doug set we've never seen charges against a — as doug set we've never seen charges against a former—

as doug set we've never seen charges against a former president _ as doug set we've never seen charges against a former president or- as doug set we've never seen charges against a former president or a - against a former president or a sitting — against a former president or a sitting president _ against a former president or a sitting president and _ against a former president or a sitting president and so - against a former president or a sitting president and so the - sitting president and so the political— sitting president and so the political calculus— sitting president and so the political calculus of- sitting president and so the political calculus of all- sitting president and so the political calculus of all of. sitting president and so the i political calculus of all of this will be — political calculus of all of this will be really _ political calculus of all of this will be really interesting - political calculus of all of this will be really interesting as l political calculus of all of this - will be really interesting as well. equally— will be really interesting as well. eguallv as— will be really interesting as well. equally as donald _ will be really interesting as well. equally as donald trump - will be really interesting as well. equally as donald trump is - equally as donald trump is multitasking _ equally as donald trump is multitasking and _ equally as donald trump is multitasking and preparing equally as donald trump is . multitasking and preparing his defence — multitasking and preparing his defence while _ multitasking and preparing his defence while he _ multitasking and preparing his defence while he is _ multitasking and preparing his defence while he is probably. multitasking and preparing his- defence while he is probably going to be _ defence while he is probably going to be out— defence while he is probably going to be out on— defence while he is probably going to be out on the _ defence while he is probably going to be out on the campaign- defence while he is probably going to be out on the campaign trail. i defence while he is probably goingl to be out on the campaign trail. we know to be out on the campaign trail. know that donald trump is in bedminster, newjersey today, at his golf club, so that is where he has been receiving this news. we saw the statement he put out on truth social and i believe there in further statements drawn up, but we also know as i mentioned earlier that he january 6 committee had spent all this time, 16 months, looking to what happened onjanuary 6 and efforts to subvert the election results. what do we know about how jack smith and the department of justice and about their investigation, what steps they took to gather evidence in this case? md; to gather evidence in this case? my as is to gather evidence in this case? my gas is they took every thing the generally— gas is they took every thing the generally six _ gas is they took every thing the generally six commission - gas is they took every thing the generally six commission had l gas is they took every thing the l generally six commission had but then also— generally six commission had but then also conducted _ generally six commission had but then also conducted their - generally six commission had but then also conducted their own - then also conducted their own investigation _ then also conducted their own investigation —— _ then also conducted their own investigation —— my— then also conducted their own investigation —— my guess - then also conducted their own investigation —— my guess is i then also conducted their own i investigation —— my guess is they took— investigation —— my guess is they took everything _ investigation —— my guess is they took everything the _ investigation —— my guess is they took everything the january- investigation —— my guess is they took everything the january 6 - took everything the january 6 mission — took everything the january 6

mission had. _ took everything the january 6 mission had. it— took everything the january 6 mission had. it would - took everything the january 6 mission had. it would not- took everything the january 6 - mission had. it would not surprise me if— mission had. it would not surprise me if they— mission had. it would not surprise me if they had _ mission had. it would not surprise me if they had more, _ mission had. it would not surprise me if they had more, because - mission had. it would not surprisel me if they had more, because they had quite _ me if they had more, because they had quite a — me if they had more, because they had quite a bit _ me if they had more, because they had quite a bit more _ me if they had more, because they had quite a bit more time - me if they had more, because they had quite a bit more time now- me if they had more, because they had quite a bit more time now and| had quite a bit more time now and also the _ had quite a bit more time now and also the resources _ had quite a bit more time now and also the resources that _ had quite a bit more time now and also the resources that the - had quite a bit more time now and also the resources that the fbi - also the resources that the fbi have, — also the resources that the fbi have, has— also the resources that the fbi have, has come _ also the resources that the fbi have, has come as _ also the resources that the fbi i have, has come as investigators also the resources that the fbi - have, has come as investigators is a bit broader— have, has come as investigators is a bit broader than _ have, has come as investigators is a bit broader than what _ have, has come as investigators is a bit broader than what congressional| bit broader than what congressional investigators — bit broader than what congressional investigators have. _ bit broader than what congressional investigators have. they— bit broader than what congressional investigators have. they operate i bit broader than what congressional investigators have. they operate in| investigators have. they operate in a bit of— investigators have. they operate in a bit of a _ investigators have. they operate in a bit of a different— investigators have. they operate in a bit of a different level. _ investigators have. they operate in a bit of a different level. my- investigators have. they operate in a bit of a different level. my guess| a bit of a different level. my guess is whatever— a bit of a different level. my guess is whatever the _ a bit of a different level. my guess is whatever the january— a bit of a different level. my guess is whatever the january 6 - a bit of a different level. my guess i is whatever the january 6 commission had come _ is whatever the january 6 commission had come it— is whatever the january 6 commission had come it is— is whatever the january 6 commission had come it is that _ is whatever the january 6 commission had come it is that and _ is whatever the january 6 commission had come it is that and then- is whatever the january 6 commission had come it is that and then some, i had come it is that and then some, some _ had come it is that and then some, some two— had come it is that and then some, some two years _ had come it is that and then some, some two years later. _ had come it is that and then some, some two years later. remember. had come it is that and then some, . some two years later. remember the january— some two years later. remember the january 6— some two years later. remember the january 6 commission _ some two years later. remember the january 6 commission were _ some two years later. remember the january 6 commission were preparingj january 6 commission were preparing for a political— january 6 commission were preparing for a political effect _ january 6 commission were preparing for a political effect prosecution - for a political effect prosecution the impeachment _ for a political effect prosecution the impeachment donald - for a political effect prosecution | the impeachment donald trump for a political effect prosecution - the impeachment donald trump was never— the impeachment donald trump was never successfully— the impeachment donald trump was never successfully convicted - the impeachment donald trump was never successfully convicted on - the impeachment donald trump was never successfully convicted on with| never successfully convicted on with your spec _ never successfully convicted on with your spec six — never successfully convicted on with your spec six issue~ _ never successfully convicted on with your spec six issue. —— _ never successfully convicted on with your spec six issue. —— with- never successfully convicted on with your spec six issue. —— with respect| your spec six issue. —— with respect to the _ your spec six issue. —— with respect to the january — your spec six issue. —— with respect to the january 6 _ your spec six issue. —— with respect to the january 6 issue. _ your spec six issue. —— with respect to the january 6 issue. they- your spec six issue. —— with respect to the january 6 issue. they have . your spec six issue. —— with respect| to the january 6 issue. they have to develop _ to the january 6 issue. they have to develop a _ to the january 6 issue. they have to develop a legal _ to the january 6 issue. they have to develop a legal series _ to the january 6 issue. they have to develop a legal series but _ develop a legal series but then prove — develop a legal series but then prove them _ develop a legal series but then prove them to _ develop a legal series but then prove them to a _ develop a legal series but then prove them to a unanimous - develop a legal series but theni prove them to a unanimousjury bevond — prove them to a unanimousjury beyond a — prove them to a unanimousjury beyond a reasonable _ prove them to a unanimousjury beyond a reasonable doubt. - prove them to a unanimousjury| beyond a reasonable doubt. and prove them to a unanimousjury- beyond a reasonable doubt. and that is a different— beyond a reasonable doubt. and that is a different standard. _ beyond a reasonable doubt. and that is a different standard. by— beyond a reasonable doubt. and that is a different standard. by taking - is a different standard. by taking the information— is a different standard. by taking the information from _ is a different standard. by taking the information from the - is a different standard. by taking the information from the january is a different standard. by taking l the information from the january 6 commission, — the information from the january 6 commission, that _ the information from the january 6 commission, that could _ the information from the january 6 commission, that could be - the information from the january 6 commission, that could be a - the information from the january 6 commission, that could be a good| commission, that could be a good start, _ commission, that could be a good start, but— commission, that could be a good start, but now— commission, that could be a good start, but now we _ commission, that could be a good start, but now we have _ commission, that could be a good start, but now we have it - commission, that could be a good start, but now we have it to- commission, that could be a good start, but now we have it to turn i start, but now we have it to turn that into — start, but now we have it to turn that into a — start, but now we have it to turn that into a real— start, but now we have it to turn that into a real legal— start, but now we have it to turnj that into a real legal prosecution and so _ that into a real legal prosecution

and so that— that into a real legal prosecution and so that will— that into a real legal prosecution and so that will be _ that into a real legal prosecution and so that will be what - that into a real legal prosecution and so that will be what is - and so that will be what is interesting, _ and so that will be what is interesting, what - and so that will be what is interesting, what i - and so that will be what is interesting, what i will- and so that will be what is interesting, what i will be| and so that will be what is - interesting, what i will be watching very closely — interesting, what i will be watching very closely in _ interesting, what i will be watching very closely in the _ interesting, what i will be watching very closely in the coming - interesting, what i will be watching very closely in the coming months. 0k, very closely in the coming months. 0k. we _ very closely in the coming months. 0k. we will— very closely in the coming months. 0k. we will be— very closely in the coming months. ok, we will be very— very closely in the coming months. ok, we will be very interested - very closely in the coming months. ok, we will be very interested to l ok, we will be very interested to watch and we are seeing those live pictures expecting the special counsel to come out in just a little bit for a statement there. this is bbc news. former us president donald trump has been indicted. he's been charged on four counts including conspiracy to defraud the united states and conspiracy against rights of citizens. he has called it a fake indictment and an attempt to interfere in the 2024 election campaign.

in the past hour set we begin in the us, where there's been a key development hour set in the past hour over former president donald trump's role in the january 6th capitol hill riots. the capitol hill riots. most serious threat to him as he campaigns the most serious threat to him as he campaigns to return to the white house. special counseljack smith has been leading this investigation is expected to deliver a statement shortly. he has been charged with four counts in a 45 page indictment, those charges are... conspiracy to defraud the united states, conspiracy to obstruct an official proceeding, obstruction of and attempt to obstruct an official proceeding conspiracy against rights, of citizens. he has been

summoned to appear in a federal court on thursday and as we are waiting for that statement lets go to our correspondent. let's go live to washington and our north america correspondent nomia iqbal: a flurry of activity over the last hour tell us what has been going on. so we are waiting for special counsel, jack smith to release a statement, without expecting to take any questions of course i understand the minute you start speaking we will go to him. we were expecting an indictment, there has been a lot of activity notjust indictment, there has been a lot of activity not just today indictment, there has been a lot of activity notjust today but in the last week or so, in the last few weeks donald trump and said he received a special target letter which basically signals that you are the subject of an investigation, the investigation is wrapping up and you have been asked to give evidence to the grand jury which he declined. to recap, these four charges that he has been facing, this is the biggest case against him by the doj investigating a variety of plots in relation to the attack from a

capital onjanuary the relation to the attack from a capital on january the 6th, the relation to the attack from a capital onjanuary the 6th, the lead up capital onjanuary the 6th, the lead up to the attack itself, but of course we're still making her way through the indictment, 45 pages long but what struck me as the words that are being used in the indictment. so lies, dishonesty, fraud, deceit, false schemes —— floss claims, disenfranchising millions of floaters, knowingly false claims, deliberately disregarding the truth, the department ofjustice has really painted this picture of donald trump knowingly trying to, knowingly lying about election fraud and trying to defraud the united states which is one of the charges that he is facing. they have said again that these claims of election fraud or false in the defendant knew that they were false. of course with the department ofjustice has to do is prove intense and that is going to be the big thing for them, to prove that donald trump intended to do everything that they have accused him of and donald trump can easily

argue that that he generally believes that the election was stolen from him. the department of justice throughout the indictment, what i'm seeing so far, they have lots of quotes for many people that have contributed that have been witnesses, there are six co—conspirators who have been mentioned in the indictment, they have not the names but they are lawyers, justice department officials and a political consultant. donald trump of course has denied all of the allegations as you are laying out there as he has done with the previous two indictments as well. flan done with the previous two indictments as well. ., , ., indictments as well. can you remind us of what led _ indictments as well. can you remind us of what led up _ indictments as well. can you remind us of what led up to _ indictments as well. can you remind us of what led up to this _ indictments as well. can you remind us of what led up to this indictment | us of what led up to this indictment today. we know that the former president's lawyers for example were meeting with a special counsel, jack smith's office in the days leading up smith's office in the days leading up to this indictment. thea;r smith's office in the days leading up to this indictment.— smith's office in the days leading up to this indictment. they did and we knew that _ up to this indictment. they did and we knew that there _ up to this indictment. they did and we knew that there were _ up to this indictment. they did and we knew that there were a - up to this indictment. they did and we knew that there were a flurry i up to this indictment. they did and j we knew that there were a flurry of activity going on at the courthouse, that the grand jury were meeting on tuesdays and thursdays, last week there was an expectation that this indictment was coming but in fact what happened was there was some updated charges to the second

indictment, the classified documents case in miami which he was invited overin case in miami which he was invited over injuly. the lawyers were meeting with the department of justice, prosecutors, donald trump i put on his social media network site that has lawyers were saying that he had done nothing wrong. so what has happened throughout is donald trump has been really open on everything that has happened. he is the one trying to get ahead of the narrative trying to get ahead of the narrative trying to get ahead of the narrative trying to control the narrative of all of these indictments. he is not always got it right the first one, the second one we need the indictment was coming, but to recap, we have that indictment and we are waiting for the special counsel, jack smith to confirm... to give more detail. as you can imagine there so much media here and there are a few donald trump supporters gather in here who are kind of heckling at the media because of

course he still enjoys huge support from his base. none of these indictments will move the needle as far as his base goes and as far as many republican voters go. that leads into my — many republican voters go. that leads into my next _ many republican voters go. that leads into my next question is we are waiting for the statement from jack smith, i want to look ahead to thursday will be expecting the former president to appear for his arraignment at 4pm at that courthouse. what is going to go into preparing for that arena, given your past experience was mark it will be a spectacle because it always is. it a spectacle because it always is. it certainly was in miami at that courthouse when he was arraigned. it was in new york, we saw that. of course he is a former president which means he will have very tight security. you have secret service agents with him what we saw in miami was a lot of his supporters come out to back him. i imagine that it may be similar here as well, i can see right from me the capital there are

a lot of people that still come to the capital every now and again to protest the fact that many of those people that rioted on that day have been charged, many of them are in jail and donald trump believes that they are political prisoners and we have seen a lot of the republican party to defend a lot of those people that rioted that day so i imagine he will see at support again. we know that he gets a boost in the polls after the indictments, we saw in the first two. but we saw important to emphasise that is a boost with republican voters and the republican primaries. with the general american electorate think of this and whether or not this dense and we do not know. but remember next year, donald trump could potentially be facing multiple trials so we know he's going to be facing three criminal trials for the three indictments. we know that he has two civil cases to face. there

could also be potentially a fourth indictment coming from georgia. 50 we are looking at around six trials that the former president who's running to be the future president is facing in the matter of six months in heat of an election campaign. i almost think the word unprecedented is too small to use sometimes. we use it a lot, but as for the extraordinary what we will see play out in the us over the next year. see play out in the us over the next ear. ., ., ., , see play out in the us over the next ear. . ., . , ,, year. extraordinary indeed. stay there, year. extraordinary indeed. stay there. we _ year. extraordinary indeed. stay there, we will— year. extraordinary indeed. stay there, we will come _ year. extraordinary indeed. stay there, we will come to - year. extraordinary indeed. stay there, we will come to you - year. extraordinary indeed. stay there, we will come to you in i year. extraordinary indeed. stay there, we will come to you in al year. extraordinary indeed. stay. there, we will come to you in a bit, we are looking at those live pictures right now of this room where the special counsel, jack smith is expected to give a statement any moment now as we have received this breaking news tonight that a grand jury has indicted the former president on four counts on the investigation into the january six right in efforts to subvert the 2020 election results. as we are waiting for the statement i want to bring an our panel who had with us tonight to help us break down everything that we are seeing happening at the moment.

formerfederal former federal prosecutor and former mayor of baltimore, stephanie, to get your take first because we have not spoken about this with you yet, your reaction to this indictment. you mentioned you do not want to use the word, unprecedented, but my goodness, it is appropriate. i wish i could say this is uncharted territory, but we have been here before. i think this is the third indictment and what we know is the loyalists who will not care. that is such a poor reflection of our country right now. for those of us democrats, independents who are waiting for people to wake up, we await the time when they can see what is going on for what it is. we

have a former president, current candidates who is willing, for his own edification, ego, advantage, to subvert our democracy auntie has a lot to answerfor. subvert our democracy auntie has a lot to answer for. these charges, the indictment as we are hearing more on its, these are serious charges that are backed up by so many different witnesses.- charges that are backed up by so many different witnesses. doug, what ou think of many different witnesses. doug, what you think of what _ many different witnesses. doug, what you think of what stephanie _ many different witnesses. doug, what you think of what stephanie has - many different witnesses. doug, what you think of what stephanie has to - you think of what stephanie has to say? it you think of what stephanie has to sa ? . you think of what stephanie has to sa ? , ., , , you think of what stephanie has to sa ? , . , , . say? it is ultimately why we have the trial. say? it is ultimately why we have the trial- l _ say? it is ultimately why we have the trial. i say _ say? it is ultimately why we have the trial. i say this _ say? it is ultimately why we have the trial. i say this is _ say? it is ultimately why we have the trial. i say this is no - say? it is ultimately why we have the trial. i say this is no fan - say? it is ultimately why we have the trial. i say this is no fan of. the trial. i say this is no fan of donald trump, he starts with the presumption of innocence. at least legally _ presumption of innocence. at least legally. politically that is a different matter. donald trump, safe to say— different matter. donald trump, safe to say draws very extreme reactions from people, whether they like him, they really— from people, whether they like him, they really like him. if they do not like them, — they really like him. if they do not like them, they really don't like him _ like them, they really don't like him that — like them, they really don't like him. that is political prism that we will go _ him. that is political prism that we will go throughjust over him. that is political prism that we will go through just over the next year and — will go through just over the next year and a — will go through just over the next year and a half. and what we will see is, where do those independent voters _ see is, where do those independent voters fall~ — see is, where do those independent voters fall. the people who are not necessarily—

voters fall. the people who are not necessarily fans of donald trump per se but _ necessarily fans of donald trump per se but may— necessarily fans of donald trump per se but may have voted for him in 2016 _ se but may have voted for him in 2016 does — se but may have voted for him in 2016. does this drive him further away— 2016. does this drive him further away will— 2016. does this drive him further away will stop the pulling suggests i’i l ht away will stop the pulling suggests right now that if it were a donald trump _ right now that if it were a donald trump versus biden race it is neck and neck — trump versus biden race it is neck and neck a — trump versus biden race it is neck and neck. a new york times poll todaym — and neck. a new york times poll toda g . . and neck. a new york times poll toda... , , , , today... just 'umping in because looks like today... justjumping in because looks like the _ today... justjumping in because looks like the press _ today... justjumping in because looks like the press conference l today... justjumping in because| looks like the press conference is beginning. to looks like the press conference is benninnin. ., u, looks like the press conference is benninnin. ., _, ., looks like the press conference is benninnin. ., ., , beginning. to come to this podium and make a — beginning. to come to this podium and make a statement _ beginning. to come to this podium and make a statement of- beginning. to come to this podium and make a statement of about - beginning. to come to this podium | and make a statement of about two minutes in length. he will not take questions. if you have any questions after the press over please see me on the side. any questions right now? don't do it. all right, thank you. as we just heard their special counsel will be coming out, as expected, he will be delivering a statement, we purchased in two minutes in length and that he will leave without taking any questions.

i don't know how much time