this is bbc news. the headlines... at least 30 people are dead after an express train came off the tracks in southern pakistan. the train was heading for karachi when several carriages overturned. the country's railway minister says at least 1,000 people were on board. a deadline set by west african leaders for the military junta in niger to step down and reinstate the country's president is fast approaching. they've threatened potential military action if their demands are not met. (00v) president zelensky says a russian guided missile has hit a blood transfusion center in northeast ukraine — he described the attack as a war crime and said there were reports of dead and injured. and sweden make it through to the women's world cup quarterfinals after they knock out the defending champions the usa in a match decided by penalties.

now on bbc news, this cultural life: whoopi goldberg. whoopi goldberg is one of the very few people to have won all four of america's big entertainment awards... whoopi goldberg! ..emmy, grammy, 0scarand tony, for her work in film, theatre and television. lovely to meet you. thank you. please take a seat. brought up by a single mother in a new york housing project, she first made her name with a solo comedy show onstage before turning to dramatic acting roles, starting with her movie debut in the color purple. until you do right by me, everything you think about is going to crumble. since then, she's made around 100 films, including ghost and sister act. she's hosted the academy awards several times and has forged a career as an outspoken and controversial television personality.

the craziness of what's going on in this country at the moment. let's mic you up. in this episode of this cultural life, the radio 4 programme, she reveals herformative influences and experiences. just come on under the shirt. yeah, you sure? babe...i've been doing this a long time. if you're an old lady, you don't mind. you're like, "thank you." whoopi goldberg, welcome to this cultural life. thank you. on this cultural life, i ask my guests to reflect on the most significant influences and experiences that have shaped their own creativity.

you were born and raised in chelsea in new york city in the late �*50s and the �*60s? yes. what are your earliest cultural memories as a child? you're talking about a little kid, i'm a little kid? the most important thing to me was that the people around me, again, the people around me never said, "you can't do this." so you want to know what the inspiration was? it was my mother. cos my mother said, "if that's what you want to do, "sure, let's find out how to do it." what about school? what sort of pupil were you? i was not a great pupil. i was dyslexic. i am dyslexic... but didn't know at the time? at the time, no. they just thought i was just being lazy. my mom didn't think i wasjust being lazy, shejust didn't... she said, "i don't know what it is, but, you know, it's ok." and so she didn't allow people to call me stupid or any of the words that lots of people had to deal with. i know i'm talking a lot

about my mom, but i... i was very blessed to have the woman that i had as a mother because she was just odd enough to recognise the oddity in her child. and that was kind of groovy. i read that you left school very early, before you were supposed to... yes. ..so how were you educated? i was educated all over the place. i made a deal because i couldn't take high school. i couldn't do it, it was really hard. and my mother said, "listen, you cannot run in the streets, "but what i will do with you is, we will together find the places "where you can go, to the museums, you can go to a lecture. "we will find these places together. "and when i come from work and i say to you, �*what did you learn today? "�*where did your mind go?', �*you have to tell me.”' "and i was lucky enough because i... "you need to show me things, i don't... "i'm not a great reader. you have to show me, you have to tell me.

and then i can sort of go wherever i need to go. and so for me, my interest in learning was lit by her saying, "you can'tjust do nothing." how did it inspire you? and what...? it inspired me to ask questions, to say, "i don't understand, "can you help me understand?" 0r, "what's the most interesting thing i need to know about this?" and, you know, in the �*60s, you could do stuff like that. things were free. public lectures? public lectures on all kinds of crazy stuff. so you were mixing with adults a lot during the daytime when, ordinarily, you would be at school. some. you were later known as a comic storyteller on stage. yes. were you drawing on some of those people that you met on the streets, on the people around you, in the community? just people i passed, you know? i would love to tell you it was as organised as you're... ..as you're talking about it, but it wasn't. i was lucky enough to have been

around a lot of different people. and when i decided that i needed to create characters, ijust kind of thought back to people i'd met, or people i'd seen, because, you know, i wanted to... i wanted to be in theatres and stuff. and if you weren't, you know, a good auditioner, or you were not as sharp as some, but there were things you could do, i had to find a way to show what i was able to do. you say you went to a lot of free public projects, lectures, museums, but what about theatre, which is not free? well, it wasn't free, no, you're right. but it was free sometimes in the evenings, becausejoe papp used to have a travelling theatre company that went around new york city and did all the great shakespeare plays. new york shakespeare festival mobile theater is here tonight at 8pm at madison and ralph street.

and suddenly a truck would arrive, it would open itself up, and there were six or seven actors, you know, doing midsummer's night dream, and you're just kind of like, wow! and your whole neighbourhood is watching. what dreadful dole is here? eyes, do you see? how can it be? these were the things that happened when i was a kid. theatre was happening on the streets. people were doing things in the parks. the learning was there. it was there for the picking. was it also aspiration as well? did you look at those actors and think, "that's what i want to do?" no, i always knew i was going to do it. i always knew that was what i wanted. you knew anyway? yeah, i never thought i was going to be a famous movie person, but i always knew i was going to be a character actor. that was never a question. it was in my soul. itjust was... it was just part of me. in the late 1970s, you moved to california to pursue these acting ambitions... no, no, i wish that were true. you went there for other reasons?

yes, i went there for a guy. and ijust happened to fall into... ..all the folks at the san diego rep. sure. he worked with them. and later, in 1984, you met the oscar—winning director mike nichols, who made the graduate and who's afraid of virginia woolf? and this is the next significant moment that we're going to discuss. how did you meet him? i was invited to do a series of monologues, and the first night, there were maybe four people in the audience, because nobody knew who i was, and then someone wrote a wonderful review about me in the new york times... right. ..which shocked me. but it was like, "wow, great." and then suddenly, the houses were full. and one day, my mother said to me — �*cos we would walk over to the theatre, cos it was in the old neighbourhood — and she said, "i don't ever want to tell you what i know, "but..." i said, "what?"

she said, "i think mike nichols is going to be in the audience." and i said, "wait, mike nichols, like the graduate guy?" she said, "yes." isaid, "well, what makes you think that?" she said, "well, i think maybe i saw his name on a list. "i'm not sure." i said, "ok." because i had no idea what he looked like, it didn't freak me out at all, but she was very excited and i was happy. and i did my show and... ..i went to change my clothes and there was a knock, and i opened the door and my mother went... she gasps and i went, "hi." and he said, "hello, miss goldberg, "i'm mike nichols." and i was like, "hi! "hello." and he said, "i have to tell you that i've been weeping "because the story you did about fontaine," who was the first character that you meet, he's a junkie. she laughs. rosanna cu—tay! looking good, my name is fontaine. and love is my game.

and when i kiss the girls, hey, they all aflame. come on, let me kiss your hand. no, the one with the diamonds on it. laughter and he ends up going across to europe - and ends up in amsterdam, at the anne frank house. and i ran to the door, but i got stopped by a big sign...that said, "in spite of everything, i still believe "people are good at heart." i say, "what? !" i mean, who put this up? why would they put it in this room, huh? i just couldn't understand it, you know? so i copped am attitude, decided to write a letter to the author of the quote so i got up close enough to see the author's name and myjaw dropped cos it said, "anne frank." and i thought, "this is too childish forwords, man." and as soon as i said that, it made perfect sense. of course anne frank could say that. she was a child, she was a kid. and, you know, no matter what you do to children, they are always able to still see

some good in you. mike nichols, he says, "i was on the last boat out of germany..." as a refugee? as a refugee. .."and so that story knocked me out. "would you ever want to do... "..this show for broadway?" i thought he was kidding orjust being nice. and i said, "absolutely, absolutely." so when we got home, my mother said, "i think he was asking if you wanted to work with him." isaid, "no, no, he would have said that. "he would have said that." so a month after i get home, my phone rings in berkeley, where i live. and he says, "ms goldberg," and his voice was very distinctive, so you always knew who it was. and i said, "hey, hey, mike nichols, how are you?" you know, he said, "i'm well." he said, "i've found a theatre." i said, "you found a theatre? "great." he says, "you don't know what i'm

talking about, do you?" isaid, "no." he said, "i want you to bring your show to new york "and i want to produce it." and i said, "wait, wait a minute, are you sure? "because, you know, i'm not always good, "you saw me on a good night." i said, "i'm not sure." he said, "well, think about it, think about it." and i said, "what if i'm terrible?" he said, "have you been terrible before?" isaid, "oh, yeah, many times." he said, "then you'll be terrible again. "here are the dates, i would like to do this." and i said, "ok," and hung up, called my mother and said, "i think mike nicholsjust invited me to come back to new york." she said, "i told you." and so i went back, and... ..there is no greater experience than having someone like mike... ..sit and listen, because he would say... ..in the theatre for rehearsal,

he would say, i'd be onstage and i'd be doing it, and you'd hear... deep sigh and i'd say, "are you 0k?" he said, "yes, i'm fine." "is there an end to this story or are you just talking?" and i said, "well, no, there is an end." he said, "good, because i heard it about seven minutes ago. "and you're not listening to yourself." and i thought, "oh, this is an adult, 0k. "no more fooling around, this is what it is. "this is how you do it." so he helped refine the show... and me! ..and to hone it. and also, just to be clear, what you were doing with the show, �*cos it's a series of characters. yes. you have the junkie burglar, you have a sort of valley girl surfer. there's a jamaican guy and there's a woman with a disability. there's all these different people. and they were monologues, and you were going from one

character to another. but he was telling me i needed to pay attention to the monologue i was doing. he was editing you, then? yes, he was. and he was saying, "if you're not going to pay attention, "they're not going to pay attention, so get here." it was like, "0k." and i never made that mistake again. how old are you? 35. i'm going to be seven on wednesday. yeah, thank you. i'm big for my age cos we live near a nuclear reactor. laughter and applause this is a life—changing moment because he's putting you on the broadway stage. yes! before that, you're playing the clubs, the small theatres, small crowds. ijust thought, "look at how lucky i am". "i mean, my god, it's mike nichols. "he could have had a headache rather than come and see my show." what would have happened then if he hadn't come? would it have still happened? would this have... who knows? but luck had it that he came. i mean, your comedy has been controversial over the years, hasn't it? do you look back at any of it... apparently!

do you regret any of the sketches, the routines? not one thing, no. any of the gags? well, because i'm not a gag person. right. but the things that i've done, there've been a reason. you know, there was a reason i wanted to show thatjust because someone visually looks different or physically looks different doesn't mean they're not entitled to the same loves, the same heartbreak, the same everything as the rest of us. and all of my work, all of my work has been aboutjust ..think about this. it may not be your experience, but just think about it cos you may find somebody whose experience it becomes. your stage show in new york, which ran in 1984 and 1985, won a grammy award for best comedy album — the recording of the show. yes, yes. hi, whoopi. how are you feeling today? pretty good. how are you doing?

they're all upstairs waiting for you. all right, see you later. see you now. and it was around this time that steven spielberg... yes. ..saw the show, and your life changed again. yeah. when did you first meet him? when he said, "i can't come to see your show because i'm "here in la. "are you coming back to la at any point? "would you mind letting me see the show?" and i was like, "sure," cos i wanted to be in, you know, raiders of the lost ark and, you know, et, if it came back. so i said, "sure!" and so, i was on my way back to berkeley, california, and i stopped and he said, "i've just built the stage "here at amblin" — which was his company — and, "would you mind doing the show here?" i was like, "sure!" he says, "i want to talk to you. "i'm making a movie." now, during all of this — before everything, before i went to broadway — i had listened to a reading of the color purple on npr. and my daughter and i were in

the car and we pulled over our van to listen to this reading, and we made a decision that instead of maybe buying two pairs of shoes for my daughter, we'd get a book and a pair of shoes. and so, the color purple was one that she and i listened to together. and so, when i got to los angeles and i met steve and he said, "oh, and i'm making this movie". i said, "what are you making?" he said, "color purple". i said, "oh, cool — i wrote alice walker a letter." he said, "i know," and he pulled it out. she had sent it to him. why had you written to alice walker? well, i — because i thought the book was magnificent. and i said, "if they ever make a movie, i would like to play dirt "on the floor," and she's like, "0k!" she wrote to quinchones and wrote to steven spielberg and wrote back to me saying, you know, "they may be making a movie. "i'll keep you posted."

and she had already sent it all to steven, because alice walker lived in berkeley and she had seen my show. she'd come to see the show? she'd come and seen my show. but you had no idea. no! you know, because you don't really meet the audience necessarily, unless they come and say, "hello, i am so—and—so." so, you arrive at steven spielberg's private theatre, expecting just to entertain him. did you realise that this was an audition? no, nor did i realise he had other people sitting in the audience at the same time, you know? and he didn't tell me, which i'm ever gratefulfor, but i'm standing behind this curtain and i never — i never look. i generally don't care. but ijust was curious, cos i could hear people talking and i kind of looked through the curtain. i'm thinking, "oh, my god — is that michaeljackson? "is that ashford & simpson? "oh, my god, is that quinchones? !" and so now i'm like, "ok, so these people, "they're a regular old audience, i'm not going to think about it" but my agent — my newly minted agent — said to me, "now, look.

"just do your show. "don't do anything extra — just do the show". so, i do the show and they're laughing, they're having a great time, and i'm thinking, "oh, my god! "they think i'm good!" and it goes on and on, and they say, "more" and i think, "0h, this is not a good thing". isaid, "well, no, i don't really have any..." "oh, no — more, more." and i'm like, "oh, no!" i think, "ok, i have one more thing. "but they told me not to do it, so i don't really think i should "do it", and of course, that was the wrong thing to say. and they said, "you must do it now". it's like, "ah!" so i say, "it's called blee t." chuckles. and steven looks at me and i say, "yes. "it's what happens when et comes into a "black neighbourhood in the projects."

and so, now everybody�*s like, "oh!" so, i did it. it's me telling the story of the three kids. they find him and they take him and they take him into the projects. now, they're hiding him from everybody and they give him a gun. and he has a gun. and when his people come to get him, he doesn't recognise them because he's assimilated. and so, he mows them all down. and he can't phone home because none of the phones are working. so, i say, so the — the end all, be all of all of this is don't make people assimilate, let them share their experience with you. and steven stood up and started applauding. he said, 'i...'

he said, "i'd never thought of it that way". assimilation — someone coming from somewhere else and having to fit in. he said, "it's one of the best things i think i've ever heard "having to do with et". ironically, subverting the story of one of steven spielberg's best—loved films got you the role in his next movie. well, let's say it helped. celie, no! until you do right by me, everything you think about is going to crumble. don't do it, miss c. don't trade places with what i've been through. come on, miss celie. let's go to the car. he ain't worth it.

who you think you is? you can't cuss nobody. look at you. you're black, you're poor, i you're ugly, you're a woman, you're nothing at all! till you do right by me, everything you even think about gonna fail. you played celie in the color purple... yes. ..a story of struggle and survival set in the southern states... right. ..in the early part of the 20th century, and it got you an oscar nomination as well. your life must have changed — i mean, tangibly, you must have felt at that moment? well, are you a parent? yeah. 0k. you know your life doesn't change unless your kid's life changes. so, because you're really still that parent, you can't go out and go do all the stuff that, you know, young hollywood could do. no, i had to put my kid to bed, i had to take care of her, i had to do all of that. so, life changed in that there was more money and we could get a couple more pair of shoes. there was more ability

to do more things. i could do great things for my mom, who had done great things for me my whole life, and it helped me get the freedom to be myself and stay myself. and remember i said, had i not been brought in by mike and steven, i would not have had that ability. being brought in between two titans doesn't allow people to question your ability to do your gig. it was just like, "this is who i am". you have now made, i think, around 100 films, the latest of which is till. the body of emmett louis till has been found dead. i need to prepare you. can you bring emmett's black suit? it's how he'd like to be seen. bo's in no kind of shape to be seen by anyone. i he's injust the right shape. that smell is my son's body reeking of racial hatred. and it's the story of the struggle for justice. emmett till, the young

boy who was killed — brutally tortured and killed — in mississippi in 1955, and the mother campaigned forjustice, and you play emmett till�*s grandmother in this film and you've produced this film as well? yeah. what's wrong, mamie? we've never been apart this long. he's just going to see his cousins. it's not a bad thing for him to know where he comes from. chicago is all he needs to know. i don't want him seeing himself the way those people are seen down there. those people like me? even you left mississippi, mama. mamie, bo is growing up. you're going to have to let him go. this is a story which i know has been a long time in the making — or you've been wanting to make for a long time, at least?

i suspect now it's happening at the right time. it is the story of a mother and a son. and this mother made sure that the world saw what these horrible people did to her son because of systemic racism, because they felt they could. they felt they had the right to do this because a 14—year—old — 14—year—old boys are dumb. theyjust are, they can't help it. they do stupid stuff. and he whistled at a white woman and it cost him his life. this story is the story of what can happen when people let systemic racism run amok and solidify. we've been looking back over decades of your life and you have done so much. what about the future? what drives you on creatively? i get bored easily. laughter. so, there are things that i, you know, that i really want to be able to get to do. directing? no! i always think, "yes,

i would like to direct that". you have to — you have to have a certain ability to work with groups of people. this is why i'm not married — i don't do well as a pair. i'm good on my own. yeah, i'm not a good director but i do like acting and so, i'd like to keep doing that. and i also want to do a horror movie. oh, yeah? yeah! i love horror. but you haven't done one? no! no—one will let me! and i keep saying to people, "who better than me? !" whoopi goldberg, keep on working — so you don't get bored, of course — and thank you so much for sharing your cultural life. thank you! voice-over: and for podcast episodes of this cultural life, _ go to bbc sounds or wherever you get your podcasts.

hello there. there have been some hefty showers around today, but on the whole it has been a drier, brighter and calmer day than yesterday was, because storm antoni, this swirl of cloud here, has been easing the way eastwards. clearer skies following on behind, albeit with a speckling of shower cloud. those showers fading as we go through the evening and the night. some will continue across parts of scotland, maybe coastal parts of northern ireland and north—west england, but otherwise dry it with clear skies, the odd mist patch, and actually quite a chilly night for the time of year, 6 degrees in aberdeen, nine in birmingham and cardiff in some spots in the countryside will get a little chillier than that. a fresh start to monday morning, but under this ridge of high pressure, a largely dry and bright start, some spells of sunshine around. we will see some showers popping up through the day, but they shouldn't be quite as many

as there have been today. but this weather system running in from the west will eventually bring more cloud into far south—west of england and the far south—west of wales, misty murky conditions developing and some rain very late in the day. temperatures 16—21 in most places. through monday night this frontal system pushes eastwards, taking cloud and some rain with it, not a huge amount of rain but there certainly will be submitted into murky conditions for coasts and hills, whereas for northern ireland and scotland, mainly dry, fine and sunny, albeit with cooler breeze in scotland, 13 for lerwick and even further south, 19 or 20. as we move into wednesday, some increasingly humid airspreading into wednesday, some increasingly humid air spreading from the west that will give rise to some sea fog, some fog over the hills as well, some fog over the hills as well, some areas of cloud, sunny spells, but temperatures beginning to climb, and that process will continue into thursday. high pressure will be to

the east of us, low pressure trying to come in from the west, and that will bring us a flow of wind from the south, bringing some warmer air across our shores. you can see the orange colours spreading across the temperature chart for thursday. quite widely we will be in the middle 20s celsius, some could get to 27 or 28. but it may not last that long, we will see more unsettled and cooler weather returning as we head towards the weekend.

live from london, this is bbc news. at least 30 people are dead after an express train derailed in southern pakistan. more than 100 others are reported injured. in niger, a deadline set by west african leaders for the militaryjunta to step down and reinstate the country's president is fast approaching. and sweden make it through to the women's world cup quarterfinals after they knock out the defending champions the usa in a match decided by penalties. hello. welcome to bbc news. at least 30 passengers have been killed after an express train derailed in southern pakistan. a police officer supervising the rescue operation said more than 100 people had been injured in the incident. the casualty figure

is expected to rise. the hazara express came off the rails near nawabshah in sindh