thank you very much, good evening. there was a promise for something warmerfor all there was a promise for something warmer for all of there was a promise for something warmerfor all of us by there was a promise for something warmer for all of us by the end of the week, before we reached that point, the next couple of days look a bit disappointing for the south of the country, better further north. the very deep area of low pressure you can see over scandinavia is causing all sorts of problems. flash flooding, very heavy rainfall, strong and damaging wind. difference moving in across the south of the country tonight and tomorrow, nothing as severe. just bringing some patchy rain and drizzle, some low cloud, mist and fog for parts of south—west england and wales. further north, the clearer skies, it will turn quite chilly. double figures further south. a north and south divide tomorrow. drizzly rain pushing eastwards and we will continue to have some sea fog and low cloud across south—western areas of wales. further north, northern england, scotland, northern ireland,

a brighter day for you, with sunny spells. a few showers, but very windy across the far north—east and into the northern isles, where it will be quite chilly for lerwick. for wednesday, will be quite chilly for lerwick. forwednesday, not will be quite chilly for lerwick. for wednesday, not a bad day stop we will start to see some sunshine around. some may stand murkiness and western areas, with some trend in the south—east, after 2a degrees. low 20s further north. it will turn increasingly humid. towards the end of the week we start to tap into some warmth in the near continent. it will be turning dry and warm for many of us. this is a short lived speu many of us. this is a short lived spell of warm weather. see temperatures up to the mid 20s across scotland, may be the high 20s for england and wales. good spells of sunshine. it doesn't last long, low pressure out in the atlantic starts to sweep in during friday and that will bring showers and longer spells of rain to northern and western areas. the temperatures fall back again. quite fine for the weekend across southern and eastern parts. see you later. more analysis of course on newsnight with

victoria derbyshire, just getting underway on bbc two. but the news continues here on bbc one, as we join our colleagues for the news where you are. bye for now. 15 asylum seekers are spending their first night on a controversial barge in dorset. the asylum backlog is 173,000. tonight we ask, what's gone wrong with the asylum system?

the bibby stockholm barge isjust one part of the government's asylum plan. tonight, we look at the whole system. we'll hear from conservative mp and former immigration minister sir robert goodwill. as well as labour peer lord dubs. also tonight — instability in west africa. after coup leaders in niger closed the country's airspace until further notice in response to an ultimatum from regional powers to restore the ousted president, how much could the situation escalate across the region? there could be changes to how young people with gender dysphoria are treated by health care professionals. nhs england is looking at whether to refer i7 and 18—year—olds directly to adult gender services. we'll ask one 16—year—old in the process of transitioning what he thinks about that. and professional cage fighter teddy stringer is here to give his assessement of zuckerberg v musk — as the two social media tycoons get

a step closer to going head—to—head in the ring. the uk asylum system is broken — that's the government's word, by the way. since 2010, it's regularly talked about fixing it while also pledging to deter illegal migrants from coming here. david cameron back in 2014 warned illegal migrants that the government would find them and "send them back to the country they came from". under theresa may, "go home" vans drove around london. another tory prime minister, boris johnson, said brexit would mean "taking back control of our borders". under his premiership, it brought in the nationality and borders act — then home secretary priti patel said it would "deter illegal entry into the uk...and it will remove more easily from the uk those with no right to be here". less than a year after that became law, another tory pm introduced the rwanda plan, with the illegal migration bill, now law. so far, no one has been removed to rwanda because the policy is stuck in the courts. perhaps that's why a couple

of conservative—supporting newspapers were briefed today about the resuscitation of ascension island in the south atlantic as a place for outsourcing the processing of migrants, despite it reportedly being rejected several years ago by this government because of cost. and today, 15 asylum seekers moved onto the barge stationed in portland in dorset. in a moment, we'll ask if the system is "broken" because of or despite the conservatives having been in charge of it for the last 13 years? first, here's ben with numbers and facts and context. there have been plenty of headlines and heated arguments about the government's asylum policies and more today with the first asylum seekers being housed on a barge off the dorset coast. but what we want to do tonight is dig into what the numbers show us about how the government is faring when it comes to delivering on its own asylum pledges. let's start with rishi sunak�*s central pledge to stop the boats, though small boat channel crossings whose occupants mostly go on to claim asylum. the pm made this pledge injanuary.

what's happened since then? well, here's the numbers detected making small boat crossings in 2020 , 2022, around 115,000 over the course of the year, up to the end ofjuly this year, the total was running around 10% lower than at the same stage last year, so slightly lower, but by no means stopped. another pledge made by rishi sunak last december was to clear the uk's long and expensive backlog of asylum claims by the end of 2023. this referred to those claims submitted beforejune 2022. the number of those claims has reduced from around 100,000 to around 77,000 by april. the pace of processing has increased, but there are still doubts about whether the pace is sufficient to eradicate this backlog by the end of this year. moreover, as you can see, the total number of asylum claims awaiting a decision, so this includes those made

sincejune 2022 has barely fallen from its peak. and then there's the government's flagship legislation designed to effectively make it illegal for people to travel to the uk to claim asylum, as opposed to them being invited via safe routes, and also to deport people to rwanda if they attempt to come. the illegal migration bill, which places a legal duty on the government to detain and remove those arriving in the uk illegally, either to rwanda or another safe third country was finally passed by parliament injuly. yet, injune, the appeal court ruled deficiencies in rwanda's own asylum system meant the plan was illegal. the government is appealing that decision at the supreme court. yet, if that appeal fails, then the rwanda plan would seem to be over and the government would have to look for somewhere else to deport people to. the home office had expected that by april 2023 it would be removing 250 people each month to third countries for processing of their asylum claims, notjust rwanda.

zero have so far been removed in this way. it's worth bearing in mind that one of the goals of the rwanda plan and the illegal migration bill and indeed all of the government's suite of asylum policies, has been to serve as a powerful disincentive for people to travel to the uk to claim asylum in the first place. is there any evidence that it's had that effect? i haven't seen any. there is some evidence on whether deterrence policies more generally work, and it's tended to find that deterrence policies have a relatively small impact. there's one caveat, though, which is that the available evidence is based on policy in countries, notjust the uk but other countries too, and those policies have been less restrictive, less radical than what the government has pursued with the illegal migration act and the rwanda policy. so that remains, i think, an open question as to whether this policy and the government's whole deterrence approach more broadly, whether it will have the impact

that the government is hoping it will do. so it's too soon to say definitively that the government's asylum policy has failed on its own terms, but the evidence so far is not encouraging. in a moment, we'll speak to the labour peer lord dubs, but first let's speak to conservative mp and former immigration minister sir robert goodwill. thank you for talking to us. it doesn't seem to matter whether it's david cameron, theresa may, boris johnson or rishi sunak, whatever the government tries to do, it failed, doesn't it?— doesn't it? well, we have seen tremendous — doesn't it? well, we have seen tremendous pressure - doesn't it? well, we have seen tremendous pressure from - doesn't it? well, we have seen - tremendous pressure from criminal gangs _ tremendous pressure from criminal gangs bringing people to this country— gangs bringing people to this country to strip some of them are people _ country to strip some of them are people seeking to make a better life, people seeking to make a better life. they — people seeking to make a better life, they are economic migrants, and the _ life, they are economic migrants, and the system is so many coming that we've — and the system is so many coming that we've been unable to continue with policies like david cameron's, where _ with policies like david cameron's, where we — with policies like david cameron's, where we were taking people from the camps _ where we were taking people from the camps surrounding syria. we are making _ camps surrounding syria. we are making progress in an increasing

number— making progress in an increasing number of— making progress in an increasing number of people processing claims and we _ number of people processing claims and we hope to clear the backlog by the end _ and we hope to clear the backlog by the end of— and we hope to clear the backlog by the end of the year but, in the meantime, there is tremendous pressure — meantime, there is tremendous pressure on accommodation, particularly hotels, so i think the accommodation we have seen be put in service _ accommodation we have seen be put in service today, similar to accommodation used in places like holland _ accommodation used in places like holland and belgium, and similar to accommodation used in scotland for ukrainians... but accommodation used in scotland for ukrainians. . ._ ukrainians... but the cup and says the asylum — ukrainians... but the cup and says the asylum system _ ukrainians... but the cup and says the asylum system is _ ukrainians... but the cup and says the asylum system is broken. - ukrainians... but the cup and says the asylum system is broken. you | ukrainians... but the cup and says . the asylum system is broken. you are in charge. you have been for 13 years. you have broken the system, haven't you? nick we've been fought on every front by the labour party. you've been in charge for 13 years had know you said the system is broken first up is at your door. we've been fighting against the illegal— we've been fighting against the illegal migration, what with the french, — illegal migration, what with the french, trying to prevent boats being _ french, trying to prevent boats being lodged. french, trying to prevent boats being lodged-— french, trying to prevent boats bein: lodued. ~ ., , being lodged. who has broken the s stem? being lodged. who has broken the system? the _ being lodged. who has broken the system? the system _ being lodged. who has broken the system? the system is _ being lodged. who has broken the system? the system is being - being lodged. who has broken the i system? the system is being broken b the system? the system is being broken by the criminal— system? the system is being broken by the criminal gangs _ system? the system is being broken by the criminal gangs who _ system? the system is being broken by the criminal gangs who are - by the criminal gangs who are bringing — by the criminal gangs who are bringing people to this country who shouldn't— bringing people to this country who shouldn't be here. you

bringing people to this country who shouldn't be here.— shouldn't be here. you have had 13 ears to shouldn't be here. you have had 13 years to solve _ shouldn't be here. you have had 13 years to solve that. _ shouldn't be here. you have had 13 years to solve that. i _ shouldn't be here. you have had 13 years to solve that. i think- shouldn't be here. you have had 13 years to solve that. i think the - years to solve that. i think the rwanda system _ years to solve that. i think the rwanda system would - years to solve that. i think the rwanda system would provide i years to solve that. i think the i rwanda system would provide a years to solve that. i think the - rwanda system would provide a real deterrent _ rwanda system would provide a real deterrent. with australia, where they processed people in the cook islands, _ they processed people in the cook islands, their numbers evaporated almost _ islands, their numbers evaporated almost overnight we very much have to push— almost overnight we very much have to push for— almost overnight we very much have to push for the rwanda policy and -et to push for the rwanda policy and get through this supreme court decision— get through this supreme court decision is adopted by the way, it was a _ decision is adopted by the way, it was a 2-i — decision is adopted by the way, it was a 2—1 decision on the court of appeal— was a 2—1 decision on the court of appeal and — was a 2—1 decision on the court of appeal and the problem was to do with the _ appeal and the problem was to do with the fact that they sit rundle is a safe — with the fact that they sit rundle is a safe country but they were not sure people couldn't then be deported elsewhere. well, rwanda don't actually have an agreement with other— don't actually have an agreement with other countries around the world, — with other countries around the world, so— with other countries around the world, so i_ with other countries around the world, so i think it might be possible _ world, so i think it might be possible to reassure people that rwanda — possible to reassure people that rwanda will not be a place where people _ rwanda will not be a place where people can then be further moved to other— people can then be further moved to other unsafe countries. two people can then be further moved to other unsafe countries.— other unsafe countries. two out of three appeal _ other unsafe countries. two out of three appeal court _ other unsafe countries. two out of three appeal court judges - other unsafe countries. two out of three appeal courtjudges ruled i other unsafe countries. two out of three appeal courtjudges ruled it| three appeal courtjudges ruled it was unlawful because they couldn't be sure rwanda would remove people back to their original country, their country of origin, where they

might be at risk. that's quite a big hurdle, isn't it? you say the driver of the number of applications and the backlog is the criminal gangs who are bringing people here, but not according to the home affairs select committee, who said the slow processing of applications has been a big driver to the backlog and increase in the number of applications. nick that is why we have been recruiting more decision makings. have been recruiting more decision makinus. ~ ., ., . ,, ., ., have been recruiting more decision makinus. ~ ., ., ., ., makings. were on track to have about 2500 decision — makings. were on track to have about 2500 decision makers _ makings. were on track to have about 2500 decision makers of _ makings. were on track to have about 2500 decision makers of the - makings. were on track to have about 2500 decision makers of the year. - makings. were on track to have about 2500 decision makers of the year. i i 2500 decision makers of the year. i don't 2500 decision makers of the year. don't think 2500 decision makers of the year. i don't think that's right, sorry. nick these are figures from the immigration minister and they say they are increasing the productivity.— they are increasing the productivity. they are increasing the roductivi. ., ., , productivity. the last two months, productivity _ productivity. the last two months, productivity has — productivity. the last two months, productivity has been _ productivity. the last two months, productivity has been much - productivity. the last two months, | productivity has been much better. click according to the nao, the home office _ click according to the nao, the home office is— click according to the nao, the home office is going to have to make an office is going to have to make average of office is going to have to make an average of 2200 decisions every week between now and december in order to meet mr sue neck�*s pledge to clear

the backlog by the end of the by april you up to about 1300 a week. the most recent figures from robert jenrick_ the most recent figures from robert jenrick is— the most recent figures from robert jenrick is they are now recruiting people. — jenrick is they are now recruiting people, productivity has improved and they— people, productivity has improved and they will be able to clear the backlog — and they will be able to clear the backlog by the end of the year philip — backlog by the end of the year philip i — backlog by the end of the year philip i got that from robert jenrick— philip i got that from robert jenrick today. do philip i got that from robert jenrick today.— philip i got that from robert jenrick today. philip i got that from robert jenrick toda . , ., , jenrick today. do you believe him? nick they are _ jenrick today. do you believe him? nick they are the _ jenrick today. do you believe him? nick they are the most _ jenrick today. do you believe him? nick they are the most up-to-datej nick they are the most up—to—date figures we have. we nick they are the most up-to-date figures we have.— figures we have. we really need to make progress _ figures we have. we really need to make progress in _ figures we have. we really need to make progress in processing - figures we have. we really need to| make progress in processing claims and break— make progress in processing claims and break the business model of these _ and break the business model of these criminal gangs, bringing people — these criminal gangs, bringing people here, many of whom disappear into the _ people here, many of whom disappear into the system when they get here because _ into the system when they get here because part of the deal isn'tjust the fee _ because part of the deal isn'tjust the fee they paid to get here but they are — the fee they paid to get here but they are forced into modern slavery, sometimes — they are forced into modern slavery, sometimes prostitution, to pay back the rest _ sometimes prostitution, to pay back the rest of— sometimes prostitution, to pay back the rest of the fee. we need to stop this trait _ the rest of the fee. we need to stop this trait. we the rest of the fee. we need to stop this trait. ~ ~' ., the rest of the fee. we need to stop this trait. ~ ~ ., ., , ., ,, this trait. we know what you think needs to be _ this trait. we know what you think needs to be done _ this trait. we know what you think needs to be done because - this trait. we know what you think needs to be done because you - this trait. we know what you think needs to be done because you tell this trait. we know what you think i needs to be done because you tell us that we need to stop this trait, but you have had 13 years to do that and haven't managed it, so why should anyone believe you will be able to do it now? we

anyone believe you will be able to do it now?— do it now? we have been under unprecedented _ do it now? we have been under unprecedented pressure. - do it now? we have been under unprecedented pressure. we i do it now? we have been under. unprecedented pressure. we have do it now? we have been under- unprecedented pressure. we have been working _ unprecedented pressure. we have been working with the french to try and deter— working with the french to try and deter people and have been arrests of criminal— deter people and have been arrests of criminal gangs and we got tough sentences — of criminal gangs and we got tough sentences. but we need to make further— sentences. but we need to make further progress. but getting the rwanda — further progress. but getting the rwanda deal over the line, getting the approval of the courts i think will be _ the approval of the courts i think will be a — the approval of the courts i think will be a seminal moment in this process — will be a seminal moment in this process i— will be a seminal moment in this process. i think people will not want _ process. i think people will not want to— process. i think people will not want to come here if they are going to be _ want to come here if they are going to be processed in rwanda. we want to come here if they are going to be processed in rwanda.- to be processed in rwanda. we will see what happens _ to be processed in rwanda. we will see what happens in _ to be processed in rwanda. we will see what happens in the _ to be processed in rwanda. we will see what happens in the supreme i see what happens in the supreme court. let's talk now to labour peer lord dubs, who is one of those who has campaigned against the illegal migration bill. thank you for speaking to us. if labour win the next election, your shadow immigration minister has said you would continue to use those barges to house migrants for a period of time to stop what do you think of that? i time to stop what do you think of that? ., �* 4' time to stop what do you think of that? ., �* ~ .., , that? i don't think we can 'ust stop thins that? i don't think we can 'ust stop things overnight. h that? i don't think we can 'ust stop things overnight. the _ that? i don't think we can just stop things overnight. the government | that? i don't think we can just stop . things overnight. the government had made such a mess of the policy and it would be sensible, as you have

just quoted, if we do continue for a short—term to house people, otherwise we would have nowhere to put them, but it is the sign of a complete failure of the government policy that we are in this position and you are asking this question. would labour repeal the illegal immigration act? i’m would labour repeal the illegal immigration act?— would labour repeal the illegal immigration act? i'm not on the front edge _ immigration act? i'm not on the front edge l'm _ immigration act? i'm not on the front edge i'm just _ immigration act? i'm not on the front edge i'm just a _ immigration act? i'm not on the front edge i'm just a humble - front edge i'm just a humble backbencher. what labour has said is we will have new legislation to cover the whole field of refugees and asylum seekers. new legislation to change the way it is going to everybody wants to stop the boats. there is no question about that. but the whole system is failing and we need new legislation to do that, and that will require looking at everything that's going on, so many things have gone wrong. we are not sending people back who have failed to claim asylum successfully. thank

i have the list of what yvette cooper has said i have the list of what yvette cooper has sai— i have the list of what yvette cooer has sai: ., ., ., ., cooper has said that labour would do if the won cooper has said that labour would do if they won the _ cooper has said that labour would do if they won the next _ cooper has said that labour would do if they won the next general - if they won the next general election. a cross—border police unit, faster decision—making, fast returns, and the use of hotel and you agree with france and other countries, redesigning existing resettlement claims to include a clear process for refugees with family commitments. desperate mailings here. none of that would stop the boats. l mailings here. none of that would stop the boats.— stop the boats. i think it would. if we had a better— stop the boats. i think it would. if we had a better agreement - stop the boats. i think it would. if we had a better agreement with l we had a better agreement with france, we really have everything agreement with france, a better agreement with france, a better agreement with france means that together we could catch the people traffickers, those vile people who are endangering lives in the channel, and i think what yvette cooper said would have the makings of a pretty good policy. we have to be able to send people back who don't succeed in claiming refugee status. we have to give a decent welcome to people who claim refugee status successfully. we need to hugh pym —— a proper human rights —based

positive step 13 years of complete failure, and the home secretary is not managing to get on top of the problem. labourwill do not managing to get on top of the problem. labour will do that. not managing to get on top of the problem. labourwill do that. i not managing to get on top of the problem. labour will do that. i have confidence yvette cooper would do it. thank you for talking to our audience. how much are the russian wagner group involved in the coup in niger? according to foreign office minister andrew mitchell, russian flags have been seen on the streets of the country. in the meantime, niger's coup leaders have closed the country's airspace until further notice, citing the threat of military intervention from their neighbours. following the coup last month, a group of countries in western africa had demanded niger's president be reinstated by sunday night, threatening intervention if their demands weren't met. the deadline passed without the release of president mohammed bazoum. so how did we get here?

president mohamed bazoum ate breakfast as normal, but something was amiss. his own guard laid siege to the presidential palace, president mohamed bazoum had been detained. the head of the presidential guard declared himself leader blaming the government for failing to secure the country against islamist insurgents. such reasoning was also behind recent coups in neighbouring burkina faso and mali whose military regime both

that will be seven. what those documents say is they are lowering the upper age limit from just before someone's 80th birthday 216, an immediate term at least. it's always been a feature of this really long waiting list that some young people will age out. though beyond that, under 18 service but now it's happening on mass for the nhs england having these documents that all 17—year—olds who are currently waiting and are new to the weightless will have to make a

decision of whether to pursue a referral to adult gender clinics. same will be the case for 16 who are on the waiting list but will hooch turn 17 by next march. that's more than 3000 million people. it's causing concern for some but for different reasons. on the one hand you've got young people seeking transition, some of who've been on the waiting list for years already. now being moved to another waiting list. they won'tjoin the bottom of it so the time they've spent waiting will be respected. the waiting list for gender identity clinics for adults are extremely long. it's unclear how long they will have to wait going forward. on the other hand, there is also significant concern that the 16 and 17—year—olds are going to access the same level of care that other children and young people have going forward in these new services. they are being

underpinned by the findings of the doctor leading the independent review of gender identity services. one of the things they are trying to tackle is what she called diagnostic overshadowing, which is where young people presented with gender —related stress, which is absolutely real also head of the difficulties at the same time. because they were seen by a gender services sometimes those other things get overlooked for the plants to stop that happening by having a more holistic approach fear 17—year—olds won't get that. what dr hilary cass notes is the aduu what dr hilary cass notes is the adult services are quite different, and she says "the move to adult services at age 17 to 18 could fall at a critical time in a young persons gender management. in contrast, young people with neurodiversity often remain under children services until 19 and some other clinical services continuing to 20s. further consideration will be needed regarding that." there is

a fear that isn't happening. thank ou, a fear that isn't happening. thank you. hannah- _ in a moment we're going to talk to a 16—year—old who's waiting for his first appointment with the children and young people service, and a 39—year—old who transitioned using adult services. first let's hear from anna castle, whose17—year—old daughter says she has gender dysphoria. what does anna think about this potential change? yeah, it's hard to determine who's going to end up where when they so many especially girls who aren't actively diagnosed with any kind of neurodiversity, given that, historically, they are underdiagnosed because of being set to the male presentation. i was diagnosed at 33... with what? with autism. right. and i see a lot of myself in a lot of these girls, and there's so many of them. and for me, i can only imagine. it's things like the sensory side of your body

changing and things like that that i don't think these clinics are even going to consider. well, that's the recommendation for children and young people — they will consider an individual holistically — but as you say, those kind of assessments don't happen in the adult services. i just want to ask you, though — aren't you actually an adult at 17, 18? no, your brain's not fully developed untilaround 25, so, i mean, i don't think it's fair to say that you are mature enough to know yourself or anything like that... but, i mean, you must acknowledge there are many 17 and 18—year—olds who are mature to acknowledge how they feel, and some people might conclude from what you're saying, you just don't want people to transition. no, it's not that. i think that, like ijust said with

my own experience of my daughter having been brought up to play with male and female stereotypical things, the clothes and everything, to then have her during lockdown expand her circles on discord and local schools kind of getting involved and then a lot of children from her school, her local school suddenly having a trans identity, i think there is something wrong there. and at her age she will have missed the benefits that could come out of the cass review and we will be back to square one with the adult services. . ~ be back to square one with the adult services. ., ,, , ., ., ., ,, ., services. thank you for talking to us. let's speak to 16—year—old will smyth, who is waiting for his first appointment with the gender identity service, and chay brown who is director of health care at the charity transactual — he began transitioning at the age of 31.

thank you for speaking to us on newsnight with your parents' permission. what do you think about this proposal to move 17 and 18—year—olds from the young people service to adult services? i think it's limiting things like, what at people can access. somebody like me who has autism or strains of mental health that might correlate with a shift or sense of identity that is more abstract than male or female or anything, that doesn't stop when they get referred to adult services. the transition from child to adult services has become fluid, almost. it has to be incorporating both holistic and medicinal support for children and adults alike. but adult services won't _ children and adults alike. but adult services won't have _ children and adults alike. but adult services won't have that _ children and adults alike. but adult services won't have that holistic. services won't have that holistic approach like there is going to be

going forward for children and young people. you want professionals to look at you in the round, to look at you as an individual with everything that's going on, don't you? yes, and i think that's going on, don't you? yes, and i think that's — that's going on, don't you? yes, and i think that's more _ that's going on, don't you? yes, and i think that's more important - that's going on, don't you? yes, and i think that's more important than i i think that's more important than just looking at trans specifically, because i exist as a trans person. i don't have a label, i am just transphobe i'm an autistic trans person. desperate i am just trans. i'm notjust a trans person to dip everything has to be taken into account. ~ , , ., ., everything has to be taken into account. , , ., account. why is it important to you? because it's — account. why is it important to you? because it's not _ account. why is it important to you? because it's not something - account. why is it important to you? because it's not something that - account. why is it important to you? because it's not something that is i because it's not something that is ever really going to leave me. we hear about things that happen in childhood that affect gender development. i had autism my whole life. i've been dealing with mental illness since was very young. this sort of stuff won't just leave me.

it will always have an effect on me so i need to be treated with that in mind. ~ ., ., ,, ~' so i need to be treated with that in mind. ~ ., ., ,, ., mind. what do you think about these thins? mind. what do you think about these things? nick— mind. what do you think about these things? nick l _ mind. what do you think about these things? nick i think _ mind. what do you think about these things? nick i think what _ mind. what do you think about these things? nick i think what will - mind. what do you think about these things? nick i think what will has - things? nick i think what will has said about those things never leave you, in relation to mental health, in relation to autism, and that's why adult gender identity clinics also really experienced in dealing with people with sometimes quite challenging mental health difficulties. are you saying from your experience the adult services didn't look at you in the round? that's not my understanding what they do. i think there are a few— understanding what they do. i think there are a few misconceptions. - understanding what they do. i think there are a few misconceptions. i i there are a few misconceptions. i would _ there are a few misconceptions. i would understand the mum from the vt document— would understand the mum from the vt document being worried about her child being rushed into something. plan, _ child being rushed into something. plan. she — child being rushed into something. plan, she didn't use those words, to be fair~ _ plan, she didn't use those words, to be fair~ in _ plan, she didn't use those words, to be fair. in reality, for adult

services, _ be fair. in reality, for adult services, the waiting list, a year, is long _ services, the waiting list, a year, is long you _ services, the waiting list, a year, is long. you go to your first appointment, you might be waiting a year. _ appointment, you might be waiting a year. 18_ appointment, you might be waiting a year, 18 months for your second one. it's year, 18 months for your second one. it's not _ year, 18 months for your second one. it's not a _ year, 18 months for your second one. it's not a quick process, it's slow. most— it's not a quick process, it's slow. most of— it's not a quick process, it's slow. most of the — it's not a quick process, it's slow. most of the gender clinics have counsellors as well as psychiatrists that do _ counsellors as well as psychiatrists that do the initial assessment and it's about — that do the initial assessment and it's about looking at the person as a whole _ it's about looking at the person as a whole person and, if anything, trans _ a whole person and, if anything, trans people sometimes wish they didn't— trans people sometimes wish they didn't have tojump through quite so many— didn't have tojump through quite so many hoops to get access to the care they know _ many hoops to get access to the care they know they need. you many hoops to get access to the care they know they need.— they know they need. you call it “uminu they know they need. you call it jumping through _ they know they need. you call it jumping through hoops, - they know they need. you call it jumping through hoops, but - they know they need. you call it jumping through hoops, but you they know they need. you call it - jumping through hoops, but you want another medical profession professions to be involved with it. yeah. professions to be involved with it. eah. �* . professions to be involved with it. eah. �* , , yeah. because either it will help ou yeah. because either it will help you transition _ yeah. because either it will help you transition or _ yeah. because either it will help you transition or lead _ yeah. because either it will help you transition or lead to - yeah. because either it will help you transition or lead to a - yeah. because either it will help i you transition or lead to a decision where you decide not to do that. it also provides more clarity in the sense that myself and my family know a lot more about what is going on with you mentally and can provide myself a more clear sense of my

identity. myself a more clear sense of my identi . . �* . myself a more clear sense of my identi . . �* , , identity. that's interesting. you think the identity. that's interesting. you thinkthe way— identity. that's interesting. you think the way they _ identity. that's interesting. you think the way they are - identity. that's interesting. you think the way they are going - identity. that's interesting. you think the way they are going to | think the way they are going to treat children and young people in future is going to help with the way your family cope with you either transition or not?— your family cope with you either transition or not? yes. when i was referred, transition or not? yes. when i was referred. the _ transition or not? yes. when i was referred, the main _ transition or not? yes. when i was referred, the main appeal - transition or not? yes. when i was referred, the main appeal of - transition or not? yes. when i was referred, the main appeal of it - transition or not? yes. when i was referred, the main appeal of it to i referred, the main appeal of it to my family was the counselling aspect and having to have my family be a part of it, and understand more what i was going through. now that that isn't going to happen and there is a chance i might be moved into adult services injanuary,... it’s chance i might be moved into adult services in january,..._ services in january, . .. it's likely to happen- _ services in january, . .. it's likely to happen. yes. _ services in january, . .. it's likely to happen. yes. it's _ services in january, . .. it's likely to happen. yes. it's a _ services in january, . .. it's likely to happen. yes. it's a worrying | to happen. yes. it's a worrying thou~ht to happen. yes. it's a worrying thought that — to happen. yes. it's a worrying thought that i _ to happen. yes. it's a worrying thought that i might _ to happen. yes. it's a worrying thought that i might not - to happen. yes. it's a worrying thought that i might not be - to happen. yes. it's a worrying i thought that i might not be able to happen. yes. it's a worrying - thought that i might not be able to access the care i've been knitting for years. access the care i've been knitting for ears. . . for years. 0k. getting this right would benefit _ for years. 0k. getting this right would benefit everybody, - for years. 0k. getting this right i would benefit everybody, wouldn't it? it would benefit people like will and others who choose not to

transition. but waiting lists are an issue in all sorts of care in the nhs. ~ , ,., , issue in all sorts of care in the nhs. ~ , ., issue in all sorts of care in the nhs. , ., ., ., nhs. absolutely, and transactual rarel talk nhs. absolutely, and transactual rarely talk about _ nhs. absolutely, and transactual rarely talk about waiting - nhs. absolutely, and transactual rarely talk about waiting list i nhs. absolutely, and transactual rarely talk about waiting list for i rarely talk about waiting list for transition —related care without saying — transition —related care without saying it — transition —related care without saying it is _ transition —related care without saying it is a wider issue. when we are talking — saying it is a wider issue. when we are talking about the waiting list, people _ are talking about the waiting list, people might be getting the impression that waiting lists aren't too long _ impression that waiting lists aren't too lonu. ~ �* , impression that waiting lists aren't toolon~.~ �*, , ., , impression that waiting lists aren't toolona. �*, , ., , ., too long. well, it's three years for ounu too long. well, it's three years for young people _ too long. well, it's three years for young people to — too long. well, it's three years for young people to nick— too long. well, it's three years for young people to nick they - too long. well, it's three years for young people to nick they would i too long. well, it's three years for i young people to nick they would have been waiting nearly three years before they are top of the waiting list before being seen and, realistically, 16 and 17—year—olds are not going to be seen until they are not going to be seen until they are 18 anyway. the thing i worry about is, if you are saying, for trans young people, they shouldn't be seen in adult services, to what extent are we in vandalising 18—year—olds, 19—year—olds, 20—year—old, and what are we saying about the autonomy of those people

to make their own decisions? what about the autonomy of those people to make their own decisions? what is our to make their own decisions? what is your answer— to make their own decisions? what is your answer to _ to make their own decisions? what is your answer to that _ to make their own decisions? what is your answer to that question? - to make their own decisions? what is your answer to that question? if i your answer to that question? if it was cancer— your answer to that question? if it was cancer care for those ages, we would _ was cancer care for those ages, we would not — was cancer care for those ages, we would not be to give, we want to hear _ would not be to give, we want to hear from — would not be to give, we want to hear from the medical professionals, they are _ hear from the medical professionals, they are the experts. 18 at 19-year-olds _ they are the experts. 18 at 19-year-olds are - they are the experts. 18 at 19-year-olds are rarely i they are the experts. 18 at i 19-year-olds are rarely going to 19—year—olds are rarely going to be treated in children services to stop you wouldn't put an 18 or 19—year—old in a better in hospital on a children sport for many reasons. fair enough. reasons. fairenou~h. . . reasons. fairenou:h. , . ., fair enough. granted, there are issues in lots _ fair enough. granted, there are issues in lots of _ fair enough. granted, there are issues in lots of cases, - fair enough. granted, there are issues in lots of cases, think i fair enough. granted, there are i issues in lots of cases, think about children— issues in lots of cases, think about children and — issues in lots of cases, think about children and young people mental health— children and young people mental health services, the transition from judging _ health services, the transition from judging young people services can be quite tricky for top there are lots of those — quite tricky for top there are lots of those things where it is not a trans _ of those things where it is not a trans thing, it's the overall nhs. thank— trans thing, it's the overall nhs. thank you both for coming into the i think you are in a bus for mosaic. i'm not an ambassador, ijust go. good luck with the gcses.

how plausible is it that two giants of the tech world and direct business rivals really will end up fighting in a cage? the proposed fight between elon musk who owns x formerly known as twitter, and mark zuckerberg who launched threads recently, currently has no definitive date — although today zuckerberg did suggest the end of august and both men seem serious in their training and their intent. joining us to discuss the likely outcome is professional cage fighter teddy stringer. but first, here's a short clip of mark zuckerberg in training. up up more! set up. tumble. trend role.

what do you think about that? well, it's interesting. _ what do you think about that? well, it's interesting. i _ what do you think about that? well, it's interesting. i didn't _ what do you think about that? -ii it's interesting. i didn't think i'd be sat here talking about elon musk potentially fighting mark zuckerberg but the world is a crazy place. what but the world is a crazy place. what did the training _ but the world is a crazy place. what did the training look _ but the world is a crazy place. what did the training look like? you are an expert. did the training look like? you are an exert. ., ., �* did the training look like? you are an exert. ., . �* , ~ an expert. from what i've seen, mark zuckerber: an expert. from what i've seen, mark zuckerberg looks _ an expert. from what i've seen, mark zuckerberg looks like _ an expert. from what i've seen, mark zuckerberg looks like he's _ zuckerberg looks like he's taking the training seriously. i've seen him train with ufc world champions and elon musk, i've seen him doing some bicep curls, so i think mark zuckerberg is taking this seriously. if they were to fight, i'd put my money on him. if they were to fight, i'd put my money on him-— if they were to fight, i'd put my money on him. what skills do you need to be _ money on him. what skills do you need to be a _ money on him. what skills do you need to be a winner _ money on him. what skills do you need to be a winner with - need to be a winner with cage fighting? need to be a winner with cage fiuuhtin? ~ ~�* . , need to be a winner with cage fiuuhtin? ~ ~~ , , ., ., fighting? mma is every martial art there is, fighting? mma is every martial art there is. so _ fighting? mma is every martial art there is, so they _ fighting? mma is every martial art there is, so they need _ fighting? mma is every martial art there is, so they need to - fighting? mma is every martial art there is, so they need to learn i fighting? mma is every martial art| there is, so they need to learn how to box, click wrestling, jujitsu. there are lots of different ways to win a fight. you can knock somebody out, get a submission, or it might be three rounds at the judges decide. there are a lot of skills

down era and if you think about