all for now. for some of us. that's all for now. thank you. in a moment it's time for the news where you are. let's return to the england women's success against australia at the world cup, which has seen them through to sunday's final against spain. tonight, wembley�*s arch has been lit up in red and white in tribute to the lionesses. after today's success, everyone will be hoping they bring the world cup home. good night. # where it began... great play.

friends, collaborating on art projects with other students. what i actually got. was an online degree delivered in my bedroom. hi, good evening. tonight — who'd be

a student in 2023? ahead of a—level results, btecs and other exams in england, wales and northern ireland tomorrow, we devote our programme tonight to finding out whether the class of 2023 — sixth formers and those doing degrees and graduating this summer — are perhaps the unluckiest group of students for a generation. if you have a relevant experience, wherever you are in the country, then do whatsapp me on 07977 701980. if you're a student, you'll know about the pretty tough time you've had over the last few years, with covid and teaching strikes disrupting your education, a cost of living crisis, and when you graduate, leaving with about £45,000 of debt, which in many cases you will repay earlier and for longer. and yet despite all that, a record 320,00018—year—olds appplied for uni last year, and most students will graduate as normal with their degree awarded to them,

this summer, despite the marking boycott. for a—level students in england, wales and northern irleand, your results tomorrow will be back to pre—covid 2019 grades, after those teacher—assessed grades during the pandemic inflated results last summer and the one before. according to england's education secretary, that means around 100,000 fewer a* and a grades this year. so, how are some of our guests here tonight feeling about all of that? welcome, all of you. jayden, you get your a—level results tomorrow, how are you feeling? i’m your a-level results tomorrow, how are you feeling?— your a-level results tomorrow, how are you feeling? i'm feeling nervous about it. are you feeling? i'm feeling nervous about it- it's — are you feeling? i'm feeling nervous about it. it's mostly _ are you feeling? i'm feeling nervous about it. it's mostly about _ are you feeling? i'm feeling nervous about it. it's mostly about the - about it. it's mostly about the uncertainty. i've put in quite a lot of work but i don't know if that's paid off or not. as you said, the grade deflation that's going to be happening this year, there's going to be so many fewer a* and as, will i be a part of that? do to be so many fewer a" and as, will i be a part of that?— i be a part of that? do you think it is fair that — i be a part of that? do you think it is fair that the _ i be a part of that? do you think it is fair that the exam _ i be a part of that? do you think it is fair that the exam boards - i be a part of that? do you think it is fair that the exam boards have l is fair that the exam boards have been told by the government to bring

the grades back to 2019 standards even though you were affected by covid? ., . . , even though you were affected by covid? ., ., ., , ., covid? not at all, these are the first set of _ covid? not at all, these are the first set of real _ covid? not at all, these are the first set of real exams - covid? not at all, these are the first set of real exams that - covid? not at all, these are the first set of real exams that my l first set of real exams that my cohort have sat. 0ur gcses were in the school and teacher assessed and if people got co—vertebrae were given predicted grades. yeah, we haven't had preparation the way that other year groups have. —— and if people got covid, they were given predicted grades. in scotland and elsewhere they had advanced information.— elsewhere they had advanced i information._ their information. that's right. their . rade information. that's right. their grade boundaries _ information. that's right. their grade boundaries maybe - information. that's right. their grade boundaries maybe going| information. that's right. their - grade boundaries maybe going back to 2019, they had the extra support on top, where we didn't.— top, where we didn't. sure, thank ou. top, where we didn't. sure, thank yom crown. _ top, where we didn't. sure, thank you. crown, how— top, where we didn't. sure, thank you. crown, how are _ top, where we didn't. sure, thank you. crown, how are you - top, where we didn't. sure, thank you. crown, how are you feeling l you. crown, how are you feeling about your results tomorrow? it is

very nerve—racking considering what i've very nerve—racking considering what i've been_ very nerve—racking considering what i've been hearing. i'm ready to get my results — i've been hearing. i'm ready to get my results i— i've been hearing. i'm ready to get my results. i want to have a positive _ my results. i want to have a positive outlook. i've worked so hard _ positive outlook. i've worked so hard over— positive outlook. i've worked so hard over the last two years and hapefuiiy — hard over the last two years and hopefully it shows and if not, well, i hopefully it shows and if not, well, i have _ hopefully it shows and if not, well, i have another plan and it is what it is _ i have another plan and it is what it is. . �* i have another plan and it is what itis. . �* .,. , i have another plan and it is what itis. . �* , ., it is. plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is- joe. — it is. plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is- joe. you _ it is. plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is- joe. you are _ it is. plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. joe, you are in _ it is. plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. joe, you are in a _ it is. plan b, pragmatic, it is what it is. joe, you are in a different. it is. joe, you are in a different scenario, you are part way through a degree as a mature student. i’m a degree as a mature student. i'm a second year _ degree as a mature student. i'm a second year law — degree as a mature student. i'm a second year law student _ degree as a mature student. i'm a second year law student at - degree as a mature student. i'm a second year law student at the - second year law student at the university— second year law student at the university of— second year law student at the university of back _ second year law student at the university of back and - second year law student at the university of back and i - second year law student at the university of back and i felt. second year law student at thel university of back and i felt the impact — university of back and i felt the impact of— university of back and i felt the impact of the _ university of back and i felt the impact of the marking - university of back and i felt the impact of the marking boycott. impact of the marking boycott and the interference _ impact of the marking boycott and the interference with absorbing i impact of the marking boycott andl the interference with absorbing the information— the interference with absorbing the information on— the interference with absorbing the information on the _ the interference with absorbing the information on the course - the interference with absorbing the information on the course —— - the interference with absorbing the information on the course —— the l information on the course —— the university— information on the course —— the university of— information on the course —— the university of quebec. _ information on the course —— the university of quebec. i— information on the course —— the university of quebec. i think - information on the course —— the university of quebec. i think it'sl university of quebec. i think it's really— university of quebec. i think it's really been _ university of quebec. i think it's really been a _ university of quebec. i think it's really been a taffy_ university of quebec. i think it's really been a taffy year- university of quebec. i think it's really been a taffy year for- university of quebec. i think it's really been a taffy year for a - university of quebec. i think it's really been a taffy year for a lot| really been a taffy year for a lot of peppie _ really been a taffy year for a lot of people-— of people. forgive me for interrupting. _ of people. forgive me for interrupting. -- - of people. forgive me for interrupting. -- it - of people. forgive me for interrupting. -- it has - of people. forgive me for l interrupting. -- it has been of people. forgive me for - interrupting. -- it has been a difficult year. _ interrupting. -- it has been a difficult year. how _ interrupting. -- it has been a difficult year. how has - interrupting. -- it has been a difficult year. how has the i interrupting. -- it has been a - difficult year. how has the boycott affected you? _ difficult year. how has the boycott affected you? you _ difficult year. how has the boycott affected you? you must _ difficult year. how has the boycott affected you? you must wait - difficult year. how has the boycott affected you? you must wait for i difficult year. how has the boycott i affected you? you must wait for your grades to arrive for your modules and if you are a parent learner like

myself and youth have to think about childcare arrangements —— you have to think about childcare arrangements.- to think about childcare arrangements. to think about childcare arranrements. . ._ , arrangements. there are days when the are arrangements. there are days when they are delivered _ arrangements. there are days when they are delivered and _ arrangements. there are days when they are delivered and childcare - they are delivered and childcare must _ they are delivered and childcare must be — they are delivered and childcare must be in _ they are delivered and childcare must be in place _ they are delivered and childcare must be in place to— they are delivered and childcare must be in place to support - they are delivered and childcare. must be in place to support that. additionaity— must be in place to support that. additionally we _ must be in place to support that. additionally we are _ must be in place to support that. additionally we are making - additionally we are making applications— additionally we are making applications for— additionally we are making applications for pupillage l additionally we are making | applications for pupillage is additionally we are making - applications for pupillage is and prospects — applications for pupillage is and prospects beyond _ applications for pupillage is and prospects beyond the _ applications for pupillage is and prospects beyond the law- applications for pupillage is and. prospects beyond the law degree applications for pupillage is and - prospects beyond the law degree and you want— prospects beyond the law degree and you want to _ prospects beyond the law degree and you want to know _ prospects beyond the law degree and you want to know what _ prospects beyond the law degree and you want to know what you _ prospects beyond the law degree and you want to know what you are - prospects beyond the law degree and you want to know what you are in - you want to know what you are in line for. — you want to know what you are in line for. so — you want to know what you are in line for, so what _ you want to know what you are in line for, so what your _ you want to know what you are in line for, so what your expected . you want to know what you are in . line for, so what your expected rate will be _ line for, so what your expected rate will be and — line for, so what your expected rate will be and we — line for, so what your expected rate will be and we don't _ line for, so what your expected rate will be and we don't have _ will be and we don't have that information— will be and we don't have that information so— will be and we don't have that information so it's _ will be and we don't have that information so it's difficult - will be and we don't have that information so it's difficult tol information so it's difficult to navigate _ information so it's difficult to navirate. . ., information so it's difficult to navirate. . . . ~ information so it's difficult to navirate. . ., ., ., navigate. charlie, a quick word from ou. how navigate. charlie, a quick word from you- how are _ navigate. charlie, a quick word from you- how are you — navigate. charlie, a quick word from you. how are you feeling? - navigate. charlie, a quick word from you. how are you feeling? you - navigate. charlie, a quick word from you. how are you feeling? you justl you. how are you feeling? you just graduated, congratulations. did you get a degree? fist graduated, congratulations. did you get a degree?— get a degree? at the moment it is bein: left get a degree? at the moment it is being left as _ get a degree? at the moment it is being left as a _ get a degree? at the moment it is being left as a pending _ get a degree? at the moment it is being left as a pending degree, i being left as a pending degree, waiting on further results. hagar being left as a pending degree, waiting on further results. how do ou feel waiting on further results. how do you feel about _ waiting on further results. how do you feel about that? _ waiting on further results. how do you feel about that? pretty - you feel about that? pretty disappointed, _ you feel about that? pretty disappointed, spent - you feel about that? pretty disappointed, spent hours| you feel about that? pretty i disappointed, spent hours and you feel about that? pretty - disappointed, spent hours and hours working and my work hasn't been looked at, it doesn't take into account the tens of thousands are spent. not a great situation to be in and i'm not the only one, there are thousands of students like me who are in a bad situation. ltrul’e’iiii

who are in a bad situation. we'll hear more _ who are in a bad situation. we'll hear more from _ who are in a bad situation. we'll hear more from you. _ who are in a bad situation. we'll hear more from you. thank i who are in a bad situation. we'll hear more from you. thank you | who are in a bad situation. we'll hear more from you. thank you for being here. ok, let's talk about the state of university finances, because that impacts current students, those who are due to start uni this autumn, staff and the future of the sector, and that will feed into a conversation about the industrial action already mentioned, by academics and university staff over pay and conditions which has led to, it's estimated, around 13,000 students not graduating with a degree — not yet. to put that into some sort of context, though 570,00 students are set to graduate this summer. it is true to say that some universities really are in financial trouble. the number running a deficit has gone up dramatically, from 14% in 2015/16 to 27% in 2020/21. here's ben with the facts. let's dig into the price of higher education. what's actually going on with the finances of the university sector in the uk? why is it all apparently in such a mess? and what can be done about it?

universities were protected from the austerity that hit most of the rest of the government—funded sector in 2010, as the tory—lib dem coalition allowed the sector to introduce a historic increase in tuition fees. yet that financial protection has since worn off. and the situation has worsened markedly since the pandemic. the proportion of uk higher education providers with an in—year deficit has increased from 14% in 2015/16 to 27% in 2021/22. the tuition fees system has been reformed recently. the income threshold when a graduate must start paying off a loan is now lower than previously, and debts will only be written off after a0 years, not 30. this effectively reduces the public subsidy and puts more of the financial burden on students themselves. yet importantly, universities are not getting any financial benefit from the reform. though it's lower in northern ireland and slightly lower in wales, the cap on tuition fees in england and scotland has been frozen

at £9,250 since 2017/18, which means a 30% decline in the actual value of fees to institutions after allowing for inflation. and this is one of the reasons university bosses say they cannot meet the demands of lecturers for higher pay. the lecturers, though, dispute this. we'll come back to that debate. in the meantime, there's another crucial element to the picture on university finances, which is their growing reliance on foreign students. here's what england and northern ireland universities collectively lose on domestic students — almost £1 billion. here's what they make on foreign students — £2.7 billion. and here's what the lose on research — £41; billion. what this means is that the income from foreign students is effectively cross—subsidising everything else the university sector does. the threat of a dwindling flow of foreign students, like in this derby university promo video, is heightening a sense of financial vulnerability in the sector.

some institutions could go bust, but experts say a greater risk is a deterioration in teaching and value for money for students. the universities will try to survive on whatever money they've got, and so if they get given less money for teaching and learning, the experience for students will be less good. in the 1980s and 1990s, the number of students doubled, but the amount of money spent on our education didn't go up at all. lectures got bigger and bigger and bigger. the staff—student ratio got worse and worse and worse and the university estates got tattier and tattier and tattier, and eventually, tony blair took the bold decision to bring in tuition fees to try and reverse all of that. so what are the possible solutions? well, more money is the usual argument. but from where? there's no appetite for more public subsidy from the uk government —

and the same goes for the devolved administrations. should students pay more through higherfees? students are unsurprisingly opposed. so, infact, are university lecturers. what about welcoming more lucrative foreign students? there's not much government appetite for that either. in fact, the opposite, as concerns about record migration rates increase. at this point, it's worth recognising that not all universities are financially equal. some, such as the elite russell group, are in much better financial health than others, and inflated teacher—assessed a—level grades in the pandemic meant more students were able to go to these higher—ranked universities, penalising lower—ranked institutions who lost fee income. this gives an indication of the financial inequality in the system. these are all the 250+ english institutions, ranked by essentially how much cash they hold. you can see there are some that have substantial cash reserves relative to their outgoings. but some — shown here on the left — are pretty deep in the red. so could redistribution from wealthier institutions to struggling ones be a solution?

that's difficult when the system is decentralised and not publicly owned. or should there be a contraction and consolidation in the sector? that's institutionally tricky and politically difficult. so, tough exam questions when it comes to university finances, and sadly, no easy answers. thank you for your messages. this is from barbara on the wirral, she says her daughter applied for and was accepted for a place at leeds university but must withdraw because her student maintenance loan won't be enough even with parental help. michelle wilson says her son has graduated from durham, going through the ceremony and doesn't know if he has a degree yet. he hasn't had face—to—face lectures for the entire time. he can't choose to do his masters because he doesn't know his grade and doesn't apply forjobs.

lily says she is going into her finalfull lily says she is going into her final full year as lily says she is going into her finalfull year as a lily says she is going into her final full year as a student midwife and in the first year there were many online lectures. she spent a lot of time thinking how can she do practical things online and how can she deliver a baby online? thank you for those and keep your messages coming in. let's speak to the vice chancellor of the university of hertfordshire, prof quintin mckellar, jo grady, general secretary of the university and college union, representing academics and university staff taking part in the marking boycott, from the labour party, mp apsana begum, who sits on the education select committee, and from the conservatives, tory peer lord willetts, who was universities minister during the coalition government from 2010 when tuition fees in england and wales went up from just over £3,000 to £9,000 per year. 0bviously, they are now £9,250 in england, £4,710 in northern ireland, £9,000 still in wales, and in scotland, if you live there, the government pays your tuition fees.

we did ask for the education secretary or universities minister, but they weren't available. professor mckellar, york university isn't one of those running a deficit at the moment but how challenging is it for institutions like yours? —— your university. it for institutions like yours? -- your university-— it for institutions like yours? -- your university. thank you, your colleague _ your university. thank you, your colleague summarised - your university. thank you, your colleague summarised the i your university. thank you, your i colleague summarised the situation incredibly well and some of the prospective students have also indicated their concerns. perhaps i can begin by saying, some reassuring remarks because my understanding is the vast majority of students, prospective students, will get their first choice of university place which is terrific and there is a substantial and sophisticated clearing system which will allow them to apply for and acquire places if they don't get their first choice, which i think is terrific. what are the universities having to do to alleviate the dire financial situation? ., . ., ., ,., situation? your colleague pointed out the main _

situation? your colleague pointed out the main thing _ situation? your colleague pointed out the main thing which - situation? your colleague pointed out the main thing which has i situation? your colleague pointed| out the main thing which has been helpful for many universities which is the attraction of many overseas students because they have unregulated fees and we are utilising a lot of the surplus we are getting to supplement the funding of undergraduates, especially those expensive courses, laboratory —based courses, health courses. laboratory -based courses, health courses. �* , , ~' laboratory -based courses, health courses. ~ , , ~ courses. and universities like east an . lia courses. and universities like east analia are courses. and universities like east anglia are actually _ courses. and universities like east anglia are actually closing - courses. and universities like east anglia are actually closing down . anglia are actually closing down some humanities courses and bringing on more commuter science and business degrees because they know it will attract overseas students. 0ther it will attract overseas students. other universities like brighton are making dozens of redundancies because things are really tough at the moment. jo grady, you know how tough it is for the universities yet you rejected this pay offer from the employers of between 5% and 8%. why? i will answer, but i think it's important _ i will answer, but i think it's important to pick up on something you just _ important to pick up on something you just said, because speaking about— you just said, because speaking about redundancies and that

automatically because there are financial— automatically because there are financial difficulties, we need to look at — financial difficulties, we need to look at their universities are spending _ look at their universities are spending money, ratherthanjust spending money, rather than just assuming — spending money, ratherthanjust assuming there is a financial black hole and _ assuming there is a financial black hole and therefore this must happen. what we _ hole and therefore this must happen. what we would argue is that frequently, and partly it is because of the _ frequently, and partly it is because of the fees — frequently, and partly it is because of the fees regime we have, that the sector, _ of the fees regime we have, that the sector, ratherthan of the fees regime we have, that the sector, rather than supporting telecom — sector, rather than supporting telecom is chasing students for competition. —— ratherthan competition. —— rather than competition. —— ratherthan supporting each other. regards to when _ supporting each other. regards to when regarding our pay offer, we believe _ when regarding our pay offer, we believe the sector can afford more. we have _ believe the sector can afford more. we have a — believe the sector can afford more. we have a bargaining sector in the uk there _ we have a bargaining sector in the uk there are institutions that are struggling, they can open their books — struggling, they can open their books and show us why and we can potentially — books and show us why and we can potentially arrange a different payment scheme for them to give their staff— payment scheme for them to give their staff increases. the employer is not _ their staff increases. the employer is not doing that. what they did during — is not doing that. what they did during our— is not doing that. what they did during our negotiations back in the spring _ during our negotiations back in the spring was— during our negotiations back in the spring was imposed something, and i think any— spring was imposed something, and i think any of— spring was imposed something, and i think any of the students on this panel— think any of the students on this panel or— think any of the students on this panel or anybody watching, negotiation does not work when you impose _ negotiation does not work when you impose on— negotiation does not work when you impose on when you tell people how it is going _ impose on when you tell people how it is going to be, so we have got this long—running dispute and we have _ this long—running dispute and we

have got— this long—running dispute and we have got it — this long—running dispute and we have got it because people such as yourself _ have got it because people such as yourself and the representative body that represents employers haven't wanted _ that represents employers haven't wanted to — that represents employers haven't wanted to solve it. we warned a year a-o. wanted to solve it. we warned a year ago is _ wanted to solve it. we warned a year alo, , ., wanted to solve it. we warned a year auo. , . , ., wanted to solve it. we warned a year auo. , ., ., �* ago. is that true, you haven't wanted to — ago. is that true, you haven't wanted to solve _ ago. is that true, you haven't wanted to solve it? _ ago. is that true, you haven't wanted to solve it? no, i i ago. is that true, you haven't. wanted to solve it? no, i think ago. is that true, you haven't i wanted to solve it? no, i think that in particular. _ wanted to solve it? no, i think that in particular, ucu _ wanted to solve it? no, i think that in particular, ucu working - wanted to solve it? no, i think that in particular, ucu working on i wanted to solve it? no, i think that| in particular, ucu working on behalf of the sector have striven to resolve the issue, they have made theissue resolve the issue, they have made the issue 5—8%, which is now being embraced by our colleagues. —— they have made the offer of 5—8%. i believe that is a fair offer given the constraints on universities at the constraints on universities at the present time. do the constraints on universities at the present time.— the constraints on universities at the present time. do you want to resond? the present time. do you want to respond? lt _ the present time. do you want to respond? it was _ the present time. do you want to respond? it was rejected - the present time. do you want to respond? it was rejected by i the present time. do you want to respond? it was rejected by an i the present time. do you want to i respond? it was rejected by an 8096 respond? it was re'ected by an 80% mar: in respond? it was re'ected by an 8096 mar: in and respond? it was rejected by an 8096 margin and imposed. _ respond? it was rejected by an 8096 margin and imposed. i _ respond? it was rejected by an 8096 margin and imposed. ithink- respond? it was rejected by an 8096 margin and imposed. i think facts . margin and imposed. i think facts matter~ _ margin and imposed. i think facts matter~ i— margin and imposed. i think facts matter. i think the issue for everybody sat here is, the state of uk higher— everybody sat here is, the state of uk higher education and education in general— uk higher education and education in general is _ uk higher education and education in general is shocking, and if you won't — general is shocking, and if you won't apologise, and i have no idea if you _ won't apologise, and i have no idea if you will— won't apologise, and i have no idea

if you will apologise, i will, for students — if you will apologise, i will, for students for the state of education in the _ students for the state of education in the uk — students for the state of education in the uk. 50 students for the state of education in the uk. ., .,, ., ., in the uk. so that was to lord willis, previous _ in the uk. so that was to lord willis, previous universities i willis, previous universities minister. why should he apologise for the state of university funding right now? for for the state of university funding riaht now? ., ., i. ., . right now? for anyone watching him is not aware. _ right now? for anyone watching him is not aware, if _ right now? for anyone watching him is not aware, if you _ right now? for anyone watching him is not aware, if you know _ right now? for anyone watching him is not aware, if you know that i right now? for anyone watching him is not aware, if you know that we i is not aware, if you know that we now have — is not aware, if you know that we now have the fees that we have, you were a _ now have the fees that we have, you were a key— now have the fees that we have, you were a key architect at the time, introducing — were a key architect at the time, introducing a system that even on its own _ introducing a system that even on its own merits does not work. it is a system — its own merits does not work. it is a system that now requires the exploitation of staff, the overworked staff, students as cash cows~ _ overworked staff, students as cash cows~ it _ overworked staff, students as cash cows. it doesn't work on any indicator. _ cows. it doesn't work on any indicator, and we now have a sector that is— indicator, and we now have a sector that is cannibalising itself and destroying its reputation. lord willits, universities _ destroying its reputation. lord willits, universities are - destroying its reputation. lord willits, universities are in i willits, universities are in financial trouble, quite a few. they get around 12% of their funding from central government. 0ur government spends significantly less per house student in germany, france, the us, canada, ireland. the government needs to put its hand in its pocket, doesn't it? ~ ., ., ., doesn't it? well, one solution would be to have higher— doesn't it? well, one solution would be to have higher public— doesn't it? well, one solution would

be to have higher public spending, l be to have higher public spending, but if you look at how british politicians of all parties have regarded education over the past 30 or 40 years, their priority has always been primary education, secondary education, early years, and one of the reasons why we did the fees, not because we loved it, we wanted to do it, but because if you look at the evidence, public expenditure for higher education has never been a priority. so you needed some other means of financing higher education. and i think that the fees, which of course, students do not pay upfront, there is an obligation to pay at a rate of above £25,000 of earnings, 9%, if graduates who are in better paid jobs pay for it, that does bring money to higher education, and the answer is, ten years ago, when we brought in those fees, though it was controversial, there was more money behind each individual student that enabled them to have the well equipped labs and enable them to have maintenance support, and what we are really describing now is the problem that has come from no

indexation or increase in fees in ten years, so the real resources shrinking and shrinking. it ten years, so the real resources shrinking and shrinking.- ten years, so the real resources shrinking and shrinking. it was a revious shrinking and shrinking. it was a previous labour— shrinking and shrinking. it was a previous labour government i shrinking and shrinking. it was al previous labour government that introduced fees, and you raise the cap. let me bring in apsana begum from labour. 0bviously, sir keir starmer has scrapped its previous pledge to get rid of tuition fees. are you cross about that? the first thin i are you cross about that? the first thing i want _ are you cross about that? the first thing i want to _ are you cross about that? the first thing i want to respond _ are you cross about that? the first thing i want to respond to - are you cross about that? the first thing i want to respond to is i are you cross about that? the first thing i want to respond to is what l thing i want to respond to is what lord willetts said.— thing i want to respond to is what lord willetts said. first, you cross about that? _ lord willetts said. first, you cross about that? l _ lord willetts said. first, you cross about that? i was _ lord willetts said. first, you cross about that? i was elected - lord willetts said. first, you cross about that? i was elected in i lord willetts said. first, you cross about that? i was elected in the i about that? i was elected in the constituency — about that? i was elected in the constituency on _ about that? i was elected in the constituency on a _ about that? i was elected in the constituency on a manifesto i about that? i was elected in the | constituency on a manifesto that pledged — constituency on a manifesto that pledged to scrap tuition fees. 30, pledged to scrap tuition fees. so, es, ou pledged to scrap tuition fees. so, yes. you are- _ pledged to scrap tuition fees. so, yes. you are- it — pledged to scrap tuition fees. so, yes, you are. it was _ pledged to scrap tuition fees. so, yes, you are. it was an _ pledged to scrap tuition fees. so, yes, you are. it was an incredible | yes, you are. it was an incredible --oular yes, you are. it was an incredible popular manifesto _ yes, you are. it was an incredible popular manifesto pledge, i yes, you are. it was an incredible popular manifesto pledge, and i yes, you are. it was an incredible i popular manifesto pledge, and they will heartily stand by it, because my constituents definitely wanted to see that _ my constituents definitely wanted to see that be delivered. —— i will heartily— see that be delivered. —— i will heartily stand by it. but i wanted to come — heartily stand by it. but i wanted to come back to what lord willetts said, _ to come back to what lord willetts said, because surely the idea of increasing — said, because surely the idea of increasing tuition fees was to help a struggling university finance sector~ — a struggling university finance sector. but then, why are university finance _ sector. but then, why are university finance is— sector. but then, why are university finance is still struggling many years— finance is still struggling many years on? _ finance is still struggling many years on? so something still isn't right _ years on? so something still isn't right i_ years on? so something still isn't right i am — years on? so something still isn't right. i am of the view that, i

think— right. i am of the view that, i think international students being attracted to the uk to study is a good _ attracted to the uk to study is a good thing. clearly, they are recognising that the quality of education here is good and very important — education here is good and very important and should be valued. but i important and should be valued. but ithink. _ important and should be valued. but ithink. i_ important and should be valued. but ithink. i do— important and should be valued. but i think, i do definitely have concerns— i think, i do definitely have concerns about the way in which the funding _ concerns about the way in which the funding model currently operates. i think there — funding model currently operates. i think there is a reliance on the international student group out there _ international student group out there to — international student group out there to finance the university sector, — there to finance the university sector, but i think it's also done in an— sector, but i think it's also done in an unfair— sector, but i think it's also done in an unfairway. sector, but i think it's also done in an unfair way. it's not really taking — in an unfair way. it's not really taking into _ in an unfair way. it's not really taking into account the international student experience i’ilht international student experience right now, as in —— as has been mentioned _ right now, as in —— as has been mentioned earlier, and the hostile environment. with the marking boycott, — environment. with the marking boycott, for example, where they can -et boycott, for example, where they can get the _ boycott, for example, where they can get the grades needed to renew their visas~ _ get the grades needed to renew their visas. �* . ., , ., , , get the grades needed to renew their visas. ~ . ., , ., , , ., get the grades needed to renew their visas. ~ . ., ,, ., visas. and that has happened to you, i think, because _ visas. and that has happened to you, i think, because of _ visas. and that has happened to you, i think, because of the _ visas. and that has happened to you, i think, because of the marking i i think, because of the marking boycott. ray, you are an international student. welcome to newsnight. briefly summarise how it has affected you?—

has affected you? yes, i am graduating _ has affected you? yes, i am graduating from _ has affected you? yes, i am graduating from my - has affected you? yes, i am graduating from my current | has affected you? yes, i am _ graduating from my current programme at cardiff university hopefully some day, but currently, nothing has been marked, and i don't know when i am going to graduate, which means that the programme i would like to enrol in in london that i wanted to enrol in in london that i wanted to enrol in basically said, unless we can't have you graduate, you can't come, and no graduation means no visa. and i am very lucky. i am one of the lucky ones. i am actually able to go to a different university in a different region of the uk. but i had to say no to a £6,500 scholarship, because it was too late for me to accept it, so i lost out on that, they have to fly home to the us to apply for my visa, which is more money, and a real stressful experience for me. do is more money, and a real stressful experience for me.— experience for me. do you take responsibility — experience for me. do you take responsibility for _ experience for me. do you take responsibility for that, - experience for me. do you take responsibility for that, for i experience for me. do you take responsibility for that, for your| responsibility for that, for your members�* responsibility for that, for your members' marking boycott which means that not only has she lost out on the scholarship, she has to fly back home to reapply for the visa again? why would staff in the uk higher education sector take responsibility for a visa _ education sector take responsibility for a visa and an immigration regime that

fora visa and an immigration regime that is_ for a visa and an immigration regime that is rinsing money out of people who want_ that is rinsing money out of people who want to come and study here? the fact you _ who want to come and study here? the fact you are _ who want to come and study here? the fact you are having to do that... the sorts— fact you are having to do that... the sorts of— fact you are having to do that... the sorts of fees that apply to international students are a racket and the _ international students are a racket and the scandal all the time. but if her work had _ and the scandal all the time. but if her work had been _ and the scandal all the time. but if her work had been marked, - and the scandal all the time. em f her work had been marked, she would be able to carry on as normal and get the scholarship. my be able to carry on as normal and get the scholarship.— be able to carry on as normal and get the scholarship. my question is, do ou get the scholarship. my question is, do you blame _ get the scholarship. my question is, do you blame staff? _ get the scholarship. my question is, do you blame staff? in _ get the scholarship. my question is, do you blame staff? in my - get the scholarship. my question is, do you blame staff? in my opinion, | do you blame staff? in my opinion, international tuition for my programme is currently £24,450, and can you imagine any other place in which a customer would pay that much money and be treated this badly? for me, in my opinion, i mean, it is unacceptable that universities have allowed this to happen. that's not ok, and i think about things like 0k, and i think about things like the fact that... i have read that your salary in 2022 was around £354,000, and that is a lot of money coming from tuition fees from students like me, international students, but also domestic students. how is it that you are not

helping us and taking care of us when we are supporting the university that you run? flan when we are supporting the university that you run? can i respond? _ university that you run? can i respond? of _ university that you run? can i respond? of course, - university that you run? can i respond? of course, please l university that you run? can i l respond? of course, please do. university that you run? can i - respond? of course, please do. my university is — respond? of course, please do. my university is not _ respond? of course, please do. my university is not in _ respond? of course, please do. my university is not in that _ respond? of course, please do. my university is not in that position, i university is not in that position, so we _ university is not in that position, so we are — university is not in that position, so we are very fortunate in that regard — so we are very fortunate in that reaard. �* . i. so we are very fortunate in that reaard. �* . , regard. but are you... i suppose the broader point _ regard. but are you... i suppose the broader point is, _ regard. but are you... i suppose the broader point is, if _ regard. but are you... i suppose the broader point is, if i _ regard. but are you... i suppose the broader point is, if i may, _ regard. but are you... i suppose the broader point is, if i may, there - broader point is, if i may, there has been criticism of vice chancellors' salaries, some on 400,000, 500,000, 700,000, and the accusation from academics and university staff is, those vice chancellors are out of touch. they are on these huge salaries, yet they are on these huge salaries, yet they are having another real terms pay cut offered to them after 25% real terms pay cut, adjusted for inflation, since 2009. well, different people _ inflation, since 2009. well, different people have - inflation, since 2009. well, i different people have different views about vice chancellors' salaries, but of course, they are running big businesses. the salaries you are talking about are for vice chancellors who have got billion pounds businesses which they have to look after, but if i can come back to the specific point, which relates

to the specific point, which relates to visas, i think it is important that universities do support students, particularly international students, particularly international students, where that situation arises, and it does arise, because if a student for one reason or another has to do a reset or something like that, it extends them over the period of what is called a cas, a certificate that allows them to stay in the uk, and they have to get recassed, and that is a visa issue, and university should support students around that. i will issue, and university should support students around that.— students around that. i will come back to you. _ students around that. i will come back to you, dominic, _ students around that. i will come back to you, dominic, in - students around that. i will come back to you, dominic, in terms . students around that. i will come | back to you, dominic, in terms of the business, but i want to bring in another short film. it is a short film, we have loads of time for you to talk. don't worry. we have talked about the finance side of the sector. what about the finances of individual undergraduates? well, the number of students with part—time jobs is at a record high, 55%, according to the higher education policy institute. ican i can see some people here nodding. they obviously have a part—time job as well. and even with that work,

the average student now leaves uni owing around £45,000, more than students in the us, canada and australia. it's worth remembering too that the department for education calculates that graduates will earn 20% more over their lifetime — that's around £100,000. here's yasminara on the student experience. the life of a student can be seen as enviable, with time to spend studying a subject that you hopefully love, making friends, often in a new location. but the last three years have seen a huge upheaval to the students' experience, with interruptions to study caused by the pandemic, lecturer strikes and more money worries for many, caused by the rising cost of living. so, my name is holly and i've just finished my first year graphic design. what's your experience been like, being a student here at sheffield hallam ? i came in through clearing and i actually didn't have a chance to visit the uni before i came here, so it was a bit nerve—racking. but it ended up being a really good choice for me. but it comes with a high

price tag, doesn't it? and how do you think that's going to impact you once you leave university? obviously concerns with debt. it's a big commitment to take on. and i'd recommend that everyone, any future students, would look into it, especially with the repayment terms, like, changing in each year. the percentage of is—year—olds going to university is expected to fall slightly this year. a lot of people have figured out that you don't have to start university at 18. it's not a written rule. so, i know a lot of people that are coming to start university that are just taking gap years. apprenticeships are becoming a big thing. there's a lot more different routes into apprenticeships. there's a lot more differentjobs you can get from apprenticeships. so typically a university degree, even though a few years ago was, like, the thing you need for a lot ofjobs, nowadays there's alternatives. this autumn, there will be yet more strikes affecting universities. i spoke to another student who's returning to sheffield hallam in the autumn after a year out.

he supports the lecturers, but says their action has affected him. because i support the strike, i refuse to cross the picket line anyway. so that means missing out on lectures, that means missing out on seminars. i think the real problem is, like, having all of these fees and having all of this debt means that students aren't really getting the value for money. and a lot of them feel like, yeah, they would be better off dropping out and not going to university. this has been a really difficult time for young people, a really difficult time for universities. professor sir chris husbands is standing down as sheffield hallam's vice chancellor after seven years in post. the percentage of is—year—olds going to university is expected to fall. what are the reasons behind this? we've got pretty good evidence here that the driver for that is the cost of living crisis, and it's the inadequacy of the maintenance offer to students that is driving, and particularly students from poorer families, not to go onto higher education.

as well as the cost of living, there's also the impact of industrial action by university staff. i absolutely understand the concern that salaries have decreased in real terms over the last decade. we've been clear that the offer that we have made is at the limit of affordability. we don't want to put ourselves in a position where we need to cut posts as a result of the pay settlement. is it still worth being a student these days? so, the evidence is pretty clear about that. being a student pays dividends in terms of lifetime earnings. it pays dividends in terms of wider experiences around the world. and what's the message from current students to those awaiting a—level results this thursday? there are so many other pathways that i could have chose, but i feel like university works for me, because ijust get this time to figure out exactly what i want to go into while i've

got something to work towards. the student experience has changed over the last decade and it seems the next generation are also likely to face further challenges. chloe field from the national union of studentsjoins me. and dominic macgregor, the founder of fearless adventures. you went to university in edinburgh and left in your second year. i'm going to ask your second year. i'm going to ask you about that off the back of this message from matt in hertfordshire, students who pay tuition fees are consumers and have rights. a class of 2023 haven't been given the services they paid for and clearly deserve a refund which should take the form of debt forgiveness, he says. do you agree? students nodding. those in favour? 0k. what do you want to say about the fact

that they are consumers who are paying for their education? is—year—old went to the bank and said give me £45,000 and i'll pay it back, they would say no, so we are putting a huge burden on young people who are having to make a huge decision. the money they pay goes to the universities and they expect a product which in future is going to help them and that comes across as a degree, experience and networking and if you don't get that from university, then of course you are right for a refund because the product hasn't been delivered and fulfilled by the university. is product hasn't been delivered and fulfilled by the university.- fulfilled by the university. is that fair, as a vice _ fulfilled by the university. is that fair, as a vice chancellor? - fulfilled by the university. is that fair, as a vice chancellor? is - fulfilled by the university. is that fair, as a vice chancellor? is it i fulfilled by the university. is that fair, as a vice chancellor? is it a | fair, as a vice chancellor? is it a fair, as a vice chancellor? is it a fair point? i fair, as a vice chancellor? is it a fair point?— fair point? i think i would refer back to chris _ fair point? i think i would refer back to chris husband - fair point? i think i would refer back to chris husband who i fair point? i think i would refer i back to chris husband who indicated clearly _ back to chris husband who indicated clearly there is an advantage for the majority of students who go to university — the majority of students who go to university and the advantage is both in terms _ university and the advantage is both in terms of— university and the advantage is both in terms of the experience they gain but also _ in terms of the experience they gain but also lifetime earnings.— but also lifetime earnings. chloe, as a representative _ but also lifetime earnings. chloe, as a representative of _ but also lifetime earnings. chloe, as a representative of students, i but also lifetime earnings. chloe, i as a representative of students, the

nus, the body set up to look out for their interests, how would you assess their experience at the moment? it assess their experience at the moment? . assess their experience at the moment?— assess their experience at the moment? , ., , ,., , moment? it is absolutely dire. the current system, _ moment? it is absolutely dire. the current system, we _ moment? it is absolutely dire. the current system, we talked - moment? it is absolutely dire. the current system, we talked about . moment? it is absolutely dire. the current system, we talked about it| current system, we talked about it and showing — current system, we talked about it and showing the _ current system, we talked about it and showing the evidence, - current system, we talked about it and showing the evidence, it- current system, we talked about it and showing the evidence, it is- and showing the evidence, it is broken — and showing the evidence, it is broken and _ and showing the evidence, it is broken and we _ and showing the evidence, it is broken and we can't _ and showing the evidence, it is broken and we can't keep- and showing the evidence, it is. broken and we can't keep putting sticky— broken and we can't keep putting sticky plasters _ broken and we can't keep putting sticky plasters over— broken and we can't keep putting sticky plasters over it. _ broken and we can't keep putting sticky plasters over it. the - broken and we can't keep putting. sticky plasters over it. the funding model. _ sticky plasters over it. the funding model. the — sticky plasters over it. the funding model, the market _ sticky plasters over it. the funding model, the market higher- sticky plasters over it. the funding model, the market higher systeml sticky plasters over it. the funding. model, the market higher system is 'ust model, the market higher system is just failing _ model, the market higher system is just failing everyone. _ model, the market higher system is just failing everyone. what - model, the market higher system is just failing everyone.— just failing everyone. what would ou just failing everyone. what would you change? _ just failing everyone. what would you change? firstly _ just failing everyone. what would you change? firstly we _ just failing everyone. what would you change? firstly we need i you change? firstly we need politicians — you change? firstly we need politicians who _ you change? firstly we need politicians who are _ you change? firstly we need politicians who are actually l politicians who are actually listening _ politicians who are actually listening to _ politicians who are actually listening to students. i politicians who are actually listening to students. what would ou listening to students. what would you change _ listening to students. what would you change in _ listening to students. what would you change in terms _ listening to students. what would you change in terms of— listening to students. what would you change in terms of the i listening to students. what would l you change in terms of the funding money? you change in terms of the funding mone ? . . ~ money? reduce the market element. meanin: money? reduce the market element. meaning taxoayers — money? reduce the market element. meaning taxpayers will _ money? reduce the market element. meaning taxpayers will pay? - meaning taxpayers will pay? education accessible for all. students _ education accessible for all. students are _ education accessible for all. students are being - education accessible for all. students are being treatedl education accessible for all. i students are being treated like consumers. _ students are being treated like consumers, they— students are being treated like consumers, they are _ students are being treated like consumers, they are treating l students are being treated like i consumers, they are treating higher education _ consumers, they are treating higher education as — consumers, they are treating higher education as if— consumers, they are treating higher education as if you _ consumers, they are treating higher education as if you have _ consumers, they are treating higher education as if you have a _ consumers, they are treating higher education as if you have a choice. i education as if you have a choice. but why— education as if you have a choice. but why is— education as if you have a choice. but why is it _ education as if you have a choice. but why is it fair— education as if you have a choice. but why is it fair for _ education as if you have a choice. but why is it fair for someone i education as if you have a choice. | but why is it fair for someone who doesn't go to university and might be on a low—income for their taxes to pay for you to go to university to pay for you to go to university to get a degree that over your lifetime will earn you £100,000 more than the person on a lower income

without one? it than the person on a lower income without one?— than the person on a lower income without one? it benefits everyone. i benefits everyone. _ without one? it benefits everyone. i benefits everyone. that _ without one? it benefits everyone. i benefits everyone. that individual i benefits everyone. that individual mi . ht benefits everyone. that individual miaht be benefits everyone. that individual might be thinking, _ benefits everyone. that individual might be thinking, how _ benefits everyone. that individual might be thinking, how did i benefits everyone. that individual might be thinking, how did you i might be thinking, how did you getting a degree benefit me? the individual would need to to go to hospital. — individual would need to to go to hospital. they— individual would need to to go to hospital, they may— individual would need to to go to hospital, they may have - individual would need to to go to hospital, they may have kids i individual would need to to go to| hospital, they may have kids who individual would need to to go to i hospital, they may have kids who are teachers. _ hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there _ hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there is— hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there is a _ hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there is a climate - hospital, they may have kids who are teachers, there is a climate crisis, i teachers, there is a climate crisis, research _ teachers, there is a climate crisis, research into _ teachers, there is a climate crisis, research into green _ teachers, there is a climate crisis, research into green energy - teachers, there is a climate crisis, research into green energy is i research into green energy is needed _ research into green energy is needed they— research into green energy is needed. they will— research into green energy is needed. they will benefit. i research into green energy is i needed. they will benefit. higher education — needed. they will benefit. higher education benefits— needed. they will benefit. higher education benefits all— needed. they will benefit. higher education benefits all of- needed. they will benefit. higher education benefits all of society. i education benefits all of society. if someone — education benefits all of society. if someone doesn't _ education benefits all of society. if someone doesn't want - education benefits all of society. if someone doesn't want to i education benefits all of society. if someone doesn't want to go . education benefits all of society. | if someone doesn't want to go to university. — if someone doesn't want to go to university, that's— if someone doesn't want to go to university, that's fine, _ if someone doesn't want to go to university, that's fine, we - if someone doesn't want to go to university, that's fine, we should other— university, that's fine, we should other offer— university, that's fine, we should other offer -- _ university, that's fine, we should other offer —— offer— university, that's fine, we should other offer —— offer other - university, that's fine, we shouldl other offer —— offer other options. it is a _ other offer —— offer other options. it is a choice — other offer —— offer other options. it is a choice and _ other offer —— offer other options. it is a choice and the _ other offer —— offer other options. it is a choice and the burden- other offer —— offer other options. i it is a choice and the burden should be on _ it is a choice and the burden should be on... ~ ,. ., it is a choice and the burden should be on... ~ _., . it is a choice and the burden should beon... _., . . , be on... why should you have... why should you — be on... why should you have... why should you have _ be on... why should you have... why should you have to _ be on... why should you have... why should you have to have _ be on... why should you have... why should you have to have to _ be on... why should you have... why should you have to have to have i be on... why should you have... why should you have to have to have the l should you have to have to have the money _ should you have to have to have the money to _ should you have to have to have the money to access _ should you have to have to have the money to access higher— should you have to have to have the money to access higher education? i money to access higher education? you don't _ money to access higher education? you don't have _ money to access higher education? you don't have to _ money to access higher education? you don't have to have _ money to access higher education? you don't have to have the - money to access higher education? you don't have to have the money. j you don't have to have the money. looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still— looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get— looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get loads _ looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get loads of _ looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get loads of debt - looking at rent, how hi it is now, you still get loads of debt you i looking at rent, how hi it is now, l you still get loads of debt you have to pay— you still get loads of debt you have to pay off — you still get loads of debt you have to pay off. the _ you still get loads of debt you have to pay off. the problem _ you still get loads of debt you have to pay off. the problem isn't- you still get loads of debt you havei to pay off. the problem isn't always paying _ to pay off. the problem isn't always paying the _ to pay off. the problem isn't always paying the tuition _ to pay off. the problem isn't always paying the tuition fees _ to pay off. the problem isn't always paying the tuition fees and - to pay off. the problem isn't always paying the tuition fees and debt, i to pay off. the problem isn't always paying the tuition fees and debt, it| paying the tuition fees and debt, it is the _ paying the tuition fees and debt, it is the whole — paying the tuition fees and debt, it

is the whole system. _ paying the tuition fees and debt, it is the whole system. putting - paying the tuition fees and debt, it| is the whole system. putting pound signs _ is the whole system. putting pound signs over — is the whole system. putting pound signs over students, _ is the whole system. putting pound signs over students, it— is the whole system. putting pound signs over students, it isn't- signs over students, it isn't working _ signs over students, it isn't working and _ signs over students, it isn't working and needs - signs over students, it isn't working and needs radical. signs over students, it isn't- working and needs radical change. i would working and needs radical change. would like to correct this working and needs radical change.“ would like to correct this dangerous idea that somehow debt is like a bank overdraft, money that students have to pay. it isn't like... so—called that is unlike credit card cat or a mortgage, it says if you are earning over £25,000 a year you will pay an additional rate. if you are earning £35,000 a year you are going to pay, about 75, £80 a month back. this is not like the american debt. ,, . ., . ., debt. sure, i want to hear from charlie. debt. sure, i want to hear from charlie- lt _ debt. sure, i want to hear from charlie. it is _ debt. sure, i want to hear from charlie. it is easy _ debt. sure, i want to hear from charlie. it is easy for _ debt. sure, i want to hear from charlie. it is easy for you i debt. sure, i want to hear from charlie. it is easy for you to i charlie. it is easy for you to lecture somebody - charlie. it is easy for you to lecture somebody when i charlie. it is easy for you to | lecture somebody when you charlie. it is easy for you to i lecture somebody when you didn't have to _ lecture somebody when you didn't have to go — lecture somebody when you didn't have to go through the exact system she's talking to you about. i think what _ she's talking to you about. i think what you — she's talking to you about. i think what you should do as someone who helped _ what you should do as someone who helped to _ what you should do as someone who helped to introduce the system that chloe _ helped to introduce the system that chloe says that it's putting off people — chloe says that it's putting off people from the working class about

studying _ people from the working class about studying is to listen to her and not to lecture — studying is to listen to her and not to lecture her. let studying is to listen to her and not to lecture her.— to lecture her. let me come back because of— to lecture her. let me come back because of course _ to lecture her. let me come back because of course i _ to lecture her. let me come back because of course i understand i to lecture her. let me come back. because of course i understand the point that is being made. let me reply to that. as a result of what we did we got mid—off the old controls on the number of students going to university. —— re—got rid of the old controls. there has been a big increase in the number of low income students going, it is great social progress. in the year i brought in those changes i wanted to... the disaster would have been if people from disadvantaged backgrounds thought they had to pay for the education and couldn't afford to go, that would have been a tragedy but it didn't happen. i completely agree, the pressure point isn't the fees and the so—called debt, the pressure point is the cash to live on at university. aha, debt, the pressure point is the cash to live on at university.— to live on at university. a quick word from _ to live on at university. a quick word from you, _ to live on at university. a quick word from you, roya, - to live on at university. a quick word from you, roya, how i to live on at university. a quick. word from you, roya, how would to live on at university. a quick- word from you, roya, how would you describe the student experience? fin

describe the student experience? on a personal level in terms of personal— a personal level in terms of personal development- a personal level in terms of personal development ed . a personal level in terms of l personal development ed has a personal level in terms of - personal development ed has been really— personal development ed has been really enriching _ personal development ed has been really enriching and _ personal development ed has been really enriching and i— personal development ed has been really enriching and i think - personal development ed has been really enriching and i think that's i really enriching and i think that's because — really enriching and i think that's because i— really enriching and i think that's because i had _ really enriching and i think that's because i had time _ really enriching and i think that's because i had time and - really enriching and i think that's because i had time and i- really enriching and i think that's because i had time and i worked| because i had time and i worked part-time — because i had time and i worked part—time through— because i had time and i worked part—time through unique - because i had time and i worked part—time through unique but. because i had time and i worked part—time through unique but i. part—time through unique but i didn't— part—time through unique but i didn't have _ part—time through unique but i didn't have to— part—time through unique but i didn't have to work— part—time through unique but i didn't have to work so - part—time through unique but i didn't have to work so much i part—time through unique but i. didn't have to work so much that i couldn't— didn't have to work so much that i couldn't get — didn't have to work so much that i couldn't get involved _ didn't have to work so much that i couldn't get involved in _ didn't have to work so much that i couldn't get involved in society. didn't have to work so much that i l couldn't get involved in society and that aspect — couldn't get involved in society and that aspect has _ couldn't get involved in society and that aspect has been _ couldn't get involved in society and that aspect has been enriching. i couldn't get involved in society and| that aspect has been enriching. but ithink— that aspect has been enriching. but i think on— that aspect has been enriching. but i think on an — that aspect has been enriching. but i think on an academic— that aspect has been enriching. but i think on an academic level - that aspect has been enriching. but i think on an academic level i - that aspect has been enriching. but i think on an academic level i don'tl i think on an academic level i don't think _ i think on an academic level i don't think i_ i think on an academic level i don't think ifeel— i think on an academic level i don't think... i feel disillusioned - i think on an academic level i don't think... i feel disillusioned with. think... i feel disillusioned with higher— think... i feel disillusioned with higher education. _ think... i feel disillusioned with higher education. i'm _ think... i feel disillusioned with higher education. i'm kind i think... i feel disillusioned with higher education. i'm kind of. think... i feel disillusioned with. higher education. i'm kind of tired as well~ _ higher education. i'm kind of tired as well~ i— higher education. i'm kind of tired as well~ istudy— higher education. i'm kind of tired as well. i study history— higher education. i'm kind of tired as well. i study history and - higher education. i'm kind of tiredl as well. i study history and spanish and i_ as well. i study history and spanish and i am _ as well. i study history and spanish and i am tired— as well. i study history and spanish and i am tired of— as well. i study history and spanish and i am tired of the _ as well. i study history and spanish and i am tired of the narrative i as well. i study history and spanish and i am tired of the narrative that| and i am tired of the narrative that degrees _ and i am tired of the narrative that degrees in — and i am tired of the narrative that degrees in the _ and i am tired of the narrative that degrees in the humanities - and i am tired of the narrative that degrees in the humanities or- degrees in the humanities or languages _ degrees in the humanities or languages aren't— degrees in the humanities or languages aren't really- degrees in the humanities or| languages aren't really worth anything _ languages aren't really worth an hina. l, �* , languages aren't really worth an him. i, �* , , anything. that's interesting. charlie, your _ anything. that's interesting. charlie, your experience? i anything. that's interesting. | charlie, your experience? i'm anything. that's interesting. - charlie, your experience? i'm going down the road _ charlie, your experience? i'm going down the road with _ charlie, your experience? i'm going down the road with lots _ charlie, your experience? i'm going down the road with lots of - charlie, your experience? i'm going down the road with lots of people i down the road with lots of people who don't want to listen to students again and it's important to askjo, you say you are sorry but what are you say you are sorry but what are you sorry for? people who have had mental health issues because of your union? because of my teaching not being completed? because people like

my sister who is going to university, she will go there and there will be no people to mark her work. what are you sorry for and if you were really sorry would you carry on striking? i you were really sorry would you carry on striking?— you were really sorry would you carry on striking? i said i'm sorry and it is worth _ carry on striking? i said i'm sorry and it is worth repeating, - carry on striking? i said i'm sorry and it is worth repeating, for - carry on striking? i said i'm sorry and it is worth repeating, for the i and it is worth repeating, for the state _ and it is worth repeating, for the state of— and it is worth repeating, for the state of education because it is what _ state of education because it is what has — state of education because it is what has let as to this path. you seem _ what has let as to this path. you seem to — what has let as to this path. you seem to be _ what has let as to this path. you seem to be talking about staff, right, _ seem to be talking about staff, right, saying they have no integrity. right, saying they have no integrity-— right, saying they have no inteuri . ., , , . . integrity. completely unfair. i have so much respect _ integrity. completely unfair. i have so much respect for _ integrity. completely unfair. i have so much respect for the _ integrity. completely unfair. i have so much respect for the lecturers l so much respect for the lecturers and you deserve a fairer deal but are you sorry? if you are sorry we wouldn't be sitting here now. let me answer your— wouldn't be sitting here now. let me answer your question. _ wouldn't be sitting here now. let me answer your question. i _ wouldn't be sitting here now. let me answer your question. i hear - wouldn't be sitting here now. let me answer your question. i hear you, i answer your question. i hear you, right _ answer your question. i hear you, right we — answer your question. i hear you, right we are _ answeryour question. i hearyou, right. we are taking action because we work— right. we are taking action because we work in — right. we are taking action because we work in a — right. we are taking action because we work in a system that systematically exploits us and if you respect your staff, which i believe — you respect your staff, which i believe you when you say you do, then _ believe you when you say you do, then you — believe you when you say you do, then you should respect and not having _ then you should respect and not having to — then you should respect and not having to work every weekend. you surety _ having to work every weekend. you surely respect them not having to have _ surely respect them not having to have things imposed on them.

everyone — have things imposed on them. everyone talks about an offer but it has been _ everyone talks about an offer but it has been imposed. you surely respect them _ has been imposed. you surely respect them when _ has been imposed. you surely respect them when they said to employers over year— them when they said to employers over year ago, them when they said to employers overyearago, if them when they said to employers over year ago, if you don't fix this, — over year ago, if you don't fix this, we — over year ago, if you don't fix this, we will end up in this situation _ this, we will end up in this situation. and we are here because they have _ situation. and we are here because they have not done those things. when _ they have not done those things. when you — they have not done those things. when you make an apology it should be directing it to this person not the people you say you respect who have genuinely tried every single other— have genuinely tried every single other way— have genuinely tried every single other way to resolve it. the people that charlie — other way to resolve it. the people that charlie is _ other way to resolve it. the people that charlie is saying _ other way to resolve it. the people that charlie is saying he _ other way to resolve it. the people that charlie is saying he respects i that charlie is saying he respects include professors who have a median salary of £80,000 a year, principal lecturers, 60,000, senior lecturers, 50,000. that's way above the average wage of this country. flan 50,000. that's way above the average wage of this country. cant 50,000. that's way above the average wage of this country.— wage of this country. can i answer that? i wage of this country. can i answer that? i know _ wage of this country. can i answer that? l know that _ wage of this country. can i answer that? i know that he _ wage of this country. can i answer that? i know that he is _ wage of this country. can i answer that? i know that he is at - wage of this country. can i answer that? i know that he is at bristol. that? i know that he is at bristol and he _ that? i know that he is at bristol and he witt— that? i know that he is at bristol and he will have been taught by a minimum — and he will have been taught by a minimum of one third of teaching staff on— minimum of one third of teaching staff on insecure contracts who are not on _ staff on insecure contracts who are not on what — staff on insecure contracts who are not on what you are talking about. they— not on what you are talking about. they earn — not on what you are talking about. they earn way less, they are using food hanks — they earn way less, they are using food banks. it they earn way less, they are using food banks—

food banks. it is true to say you are asking _ food banks. it is true to say you are asking for— food banks. it is true to say you are asking for the _ food banks. it is true to say you are asking for the 596 _ food banks. it is true to say you are asking for the 596 and - food banks. it is true to say you are asking for the 596 and 896 i food banks. it is true to say you | are asking for the 596 and 896 for are asking for the 5% and 8% for those higher up as well? taste are asking for the 596 and 896 for those higher up as well?- those higher up as well? we are askin: for those higher up as well? we are asking for everyone _ those higher up as well? we are asking for everyone because - asking for everyone because everyone's pay has been eroded by the dispute is about people burning out so much and being trapped in a merry—go—round of rubbish contracts. 44% of school leaders apply to university meaning that most don't. —— school leavers. there are alternatives: getting a job, starting an apprenticeship — although there's been a 33% drop in new apprenticeship starts at intermeidate level since 2015/16. and there are degree apprenticehsips where you learn and earn over a six year period. firms like rolls royce, google and network rail all offer them. sima reports from the cell and gene therapy catapult lab in stevenage on the apprenticeship alternatives. for some, it's the best of both worlds. earning money and getting a qualification, and no debt at the end of it. degree apprenticeships have grown in popularity over the years. in this lab in hertfordshire, ted is completing a technician scientist apprenticeship.

at the end of a four—year course, he'll have a degree in bioscience. here, he's learning how to handle liquids to make sure they don't become contaminated. this course lets me learn every day of the week in the labs, hands—on, which is the best way of learning for me and employers really value experience. by the end of this, i'll have five years of experience and that's great for applying for new positions. and you'll get a degree qualification as well? that's right. at the end, i'll have a degree, which should really help me for applying to technician roles. i'll have no debt at the end and i'm making a salary throughout the course of the apprenticeship as well, which really helps for establishing my future. we understand that everybody who has completed this course over the last five years has gone on to get a job in the life sciences sector. we are told that the course is helping to fill a significant skills gap.

but new research from the charity sutton trust shows that there aren't enough degree apprenticeships on offer. it says three in five people don't pursue them due to a lack of availability. one of the key problems is that there aren't enough degree apprenticeship opportunities for young people. they've been very much promoted as an alternative to university but the number of those opportunities that are available to young people leaving school are a drop in the ocean of all the degree apprenticeships available. they're in the main going to older apprentices who are already employees. the other big issue we find is that there is socioeconomic segregation. so, some of the most competitive degree apprenticeships are even more exclusive than undergraduate degrees. competition is intense and the research also shows more degree apprentices are from wealthier areas. in the main, they're being given to existing employees of big organisations as continuing professional development, and that is a problem because degree apprenticeships are not being used as a tool for social mobility

in the way they really could be. the government created degree apprenticeships in 2015 to give students practical experience while earning earning a qualification. at the time the minister for skills and said all apprenticeships are one of the most powerful motors of social mobility and productivity growth. but if there aren't enough course places and there is little focus on school leavers, as some have claimed, do they actually achieve that objective? crown, you get your a—level results tomorrow, you are feeling confident and you have got plan b if it doesn't go according to plan but you don't want to go to university. what are you looking to pursue? i’m are you looking to pursue? i'm lookin: are you looking to pursue? i“n looking towards an apprenticeship in the financial sector. i looked at university, might school made me apply to newcastle and i got in but it isn't as attractive as it used to

be. ifeel like you it isn't as attractive as it used to be. i feel like you are paying so much and the quality of education sometimes doesn't match. to get my degree and get a graduate job when it is so competitive, they don't pay enough and i could be underworked when i could get an apprenticeship and i could get all of that experience, i could have four years of extra experience over someone with a degree and i have a qualification at the end and i'd be working for a company.— qualification at the end and i'd be working for a company. ross, you've heard what — working for a company. ross, you've heard what crown _ working for a company. ross, you've heard what crown said, _ working for a company. ross, you've heard what crown said, you - working for a company. ross, you've heard what crown said, you want - working for a company. ross, you've heard what crown said, you want to l heard what crown said, you want to go to university. why did you make that decision, assuming you get your results? i hope you do. for that decision, assuming you get your results? i hope you do.— results? i hope you do. for me, i've stru: led results? i hope you do. for me, i've struggled with _ results? i hope you do. for me, i've struggled with deciding _ results? i hope you do. for me, i've struggled with deciding exactly - struggled with deciding exactly what i struggled with deciding exactly what i want _ struggled with deciding exactly what i want to— struggled with deciding exactly what i want to do as i get older. talking to dominic. — i want to do as i get older. talking to dominic, it is something you have struggled _ to dominic, it is something you have struggled with. it is something a lot of— struggled with. it is something a lot of young people have, deciding what they— lot of young people have, deciding what they want to do at 17, 18. if you are — what they want to do at 17, 18. if you are going to go down the route of an— you are going to go down the route of an apprenticeship or alternative qualifications, you are specialising and for— qualifications, you are specialising

and for me — qualifications, you are specialising and for me it is too early to do that— and for me it is too early to do that and — and for me it is too early to do that and university gives me a wider perspective — that and university gives me a wider perspective of what i can move into as i perspective of what i can move into as i get— perspective of what i can move into as i get older and graduate. 0bviously... eden, let's hearfrom obviously... eden, let's hearfrom you. you are still doing your course. i don't know if you know what you want to do when you get your degree. you regretting student experience? your degree. you regretting student exerience? . , your degree. you regretting student exnerience?— experience? ideally university is su - osed experience? ideally university is sopposed to _ experience? ideally university is sopposed to be _ experience? ideally university is supposed to be about _ experience? ideally university is supposed to be about the - experience? ideally university is supposed to be about the real. experience? ideally university is - supposed to be about the real world and i supposed to be about the real world and i don't _ supposed to be about the real world and i don't think— supposed to be about the real world and i don't think that _ supposed to be about the real world and i don't think that it _ supposed to be about the real world and i don't think that it really- supposed to be about the real world and i don't think that it really is- and i don't think that it really is any more _ and i don't think that it really is any more. students— and i don't think that it really is any more. students have - and i don't think that it really is any more. students have had . and i don't think that it really is| any more. students have had to and i don't think that it really is- any more. students have had to grow up any more. students have had to grow up really— any more. students have had to grow up really fast — any more. students have had to grow up really fast over— any more. students have had to grow up really fast over the _ any more. students have had to grow up really fast over the last _ any more. students have had to grow up really fast over the last few- up really fast over the last few years — up really fast over the last few years with _ up really fast over the last few years with all _ up really fast over the last few years with all the _ up really fast over the last few years with all the issues - up really fast over the last few years with all the issues they. up really fast over the last few. years with all the issues they are facing _ years with all the issues they are facing in — years with all the issues they are facing. in terms _ years with all the issues they are facing. in terms of— years with all the issues they are facing. in terms of what - years with all the issues they are facing. in terms of what i - years with all the issues they are facing. in terms of what i want . years with all the issues they are | facing. in terms of what i want to do, facing. in terms of what i want to do. i_ facing. in terms of what i want to do. i want — facing. in terms of what i want to do. i want to— facing. in terms of what i want to do, i want to pursue _ facing. in terms of what i want to| do, i want to pursue cybersecurity because _ do, i want to pursue cybersecurity because the — do, i want to pursue cybersecurity because the government - do, i want to pursue cybersecurity because the government labelled | do, i want to pursue cybersecurity i because the government labelled my degree _ because the government labelled my degree a _ because the government labelled my degree a mickey— because the government labelled my degree a mickey mouse _ because the government labelled my degree a mickey mouse degree - because the government labelled my degree a mickey mouse degree so. because the government labelled my degree a mickey mouse degree so it| degree a mickey mouse degree so it made _ degree a mickey mouse degree so it made mew — degree a mickey mouse degree so it made mew it— degree a mickey mouse degree so it made mew it is— degree a mickey mouse degree so it made me... it is politics, _ made me... it is politics, philosophy— made me... it is politics, philosophy and _ made me... it is politics, philosophy and law - made me... it is politics, philosophy and law and l made me... it is politics, i philosophy and law and they made me... it is politics, - philosophy and law and they said it wasn't _ philosophy and law and they said it wasn't going — philosophy and law and they said it wasn't going to _ philosophy and law and they said it wasn't going to be _ philosophy and law and they said it wasn't going to be as— philosophy and law and they said it wasn't going to be as worthwhile . philosophy and law and they said it| wasn't going to be as worthwhile in the future — wasn't going to be as worthwhile in the future so — wasn't going to be as worthwhile in the future so they— wasn't going to be as worthwhile in the future so they steered - wasn't going to be as worthwhile in the future so they steered me - the future so they steered me towards — the future so they steered me towards stem, _ the future so they steered me towards stem, which - the future so they steered me towards stem, which is - the future so they steered me i towards stem, which is obviously guite _ towards stem, which is obviously quite valuable. _ towards stem, which is obviously quite valuable. as _ towards stem, which is obviously quite valuable. as someone - towards stem, which is obviously quite valuable. as someone who| towards stem, which is obviously i quite valuable. as someone who is going _ quite valuable. as someone who is going to _ quite valuable. as someone who is going to come _ quite valuable. as someone who is going to come out _ quite valuable. as someone who is going to come out with _ quite valuable. as someone who is going to come out with a _ quite valuable. as someone who is going to come out with a lot - quite valuable. as someone who is going to come out with a lot of - going to come out with a lot of debt — going to come out with a lot of debt the _

going to come out with a lot of debt. the word _ going to come out with a lot of debt. the word you _ going to come out with a lot of debt. the word you are - going to come out with a lot of| debt. the word you are looking going to come out with a lot of - debt. the word you are looking for is life _ debt. the word you are looking for is life tax. — debt. the word you are looking for is life tax. by— debt. the word you are looking for is life tax, by the _ debt. the word you are looking for is life tax, by the way. _ debt. the word you are looking for is life tax, by the way. as - debt. the word you are looking fori is life tax, by the way. as someone who is— is life tax, by the way. as someone who is going — is life tax, by the way. as someone who is going to— is life tax, by the way. as someone who is going to come _ is life tax, by the way. as someone who is going to come out— is life tax, by the way. as someone who is going to come out with - is life tax, by the way. as someone who is going to come out with load | who is going to come out with load of debt, _ who is going to come out with load of debt, being— who is going to come out with load of debt, being told _ who is going to come out with load of debt, being told by— who is going to come out with load of debt, being told by the - of debt, being told by the government— of debt, being told by the government and - of debt, being told by the . government and institutions of debt, being told by the - government and institutions that of debt, being told by the _ government and institutions that my degree _ government and institutions that my degree isn't— government and institutions that my degree isn't worthwhile _ government and institutions that my degree isn't worthwhile is _ government and institutions that my degree isn't worthwhile is very- degree isn't worthwhile is very disheartening _ degree isn't worthwhile is very disheartening and _ degree isn't worthwhile is very disheartening and sad, - degree isn't worthwhile is very. disheartening and sad, actually. we've _ disheartening and sad, actually. we've got— disheartening and sad, actually. we've got about _ disheartening and sad, actually. we've got about 90 _ disheartening and sad, actually. we've got about 90 seconds, i disheartening and sad, actually. - we've got about 90 seconds, dom? apprenticeship used to be a dirty word and looked down on but now it is a route into industry and you get four years of experience and a qualification at the end as well as experience in industry. i0. qualification at the end as well as experience in industry.— experience in industry. 10, you decided to _ experience in industry. 10, you decided to go _ experience in industry. 10, you decided to go back _ experience in industry. 10, you decided to go back into - experience in industry. 10, you i decided to go back into education with two children under five. briefly, why did you make that decision? . briefly, why did you make that decision? , , ., decision? the thing is, when you enter into _ decision? the thing is, when you enter into certain _ decision? the thing is, when you enter into certain sectors, - decision? the thing is, when you enter into certain sectors, the i enter into certain sectors, the apprenticeship route is impossible, especially— apprenticeship route is impossible, especially if you are a mature student~ _ especially if you are a mature student. it has a full—time requirement, the wages are very low and you _ requirement, the wages are very low and you have the cost of living crisis — and you have the cost of living crisis to — and you have the cost of living crisis to deal with. it's a great opportunity for younger people who are maybe unsure about a career path it— are maybe unsure about a career path it isn't— are maybe unsure about a career path. it isn't one that fits all. in

regard — path. it isn't one that fits all. in regard to —