change party so significant change seems unlikely for either family or country. given years of economic growth and a key strategic position in southeast asia, maybe the status quo is acceptable to most cambodians. it is hard to know given the repression of political dissent. my guest is the veteran exiled opposition leader sam rainsy. has hun sen outwitted his enemies? sam rainsy, welcome to hardtalk. it

is a great pleasure to have you in the studio, i wonder the right now you are feeling very depressed, and thejuly election in cambodia for the national assembly the ruling people's party one 120 of the 125 seats. was that really the final nail in the coffin of your opposition movement? 140. your opposition movement? no, we continue _ your opposition movement? no, we continue the _ your opposition movement? iirr, we continue the fight. it is an uphill battle. but i think in the end, democracy will prevail. the end, democracy will prevail-— the end, democracy will revail. . .,~ ~ prevail. what makes you think that, prevail. what makes you think that. given — prevail. what makes you think that, given the _ prevail. what makes you think that, given the track - prevail. what makes you think that, given the track record i prevail. what makes you think that, given the track record of| that, given the track record of the last 30, a0 years, why on earth do you still believe what you call democracy will prevail?— you call democracy will revail? , , , prevail? because nobody is eternal- — prevail? because nobody is eternal. hun _ prevail? because nobody is eternal. hun sen _ prevail? because nobody is eternal. hun sen is - prevail? because nobody is eternal. hun sen is 72 - prevail? because nobody is| eternal. hun sen is 72 years old. and many cambodians among the young generation, they are hoping for a democratic change.

the point about hun sen he is clearly getting older but the whole point of this election is that as soon as the election was done he told the nation he is handing the reins of power to his son, who now sits in the parliament and will be cambodia �*s next prime minister. but parliament and will be cambodia 's next prime minister.— 's next prime minister. but for the cambodian _ 's next prime minister. but for the cambodian people - 's next prime minister. but for the cambodian people the - the cambodian people the succession within the same political clan, the same family, actually, isjust family, actually, is just unacceptable. family, actually, isjust unacceptable. it family, actually, is 'ust unacceptable.�* family, actually, is 'ust unacceptable. it is easy in a wa for unacceptable. it is easy in a way for you _ unacceptable. it is easy in a way for you to _ unacceptable. it is easy in a way for you to say - unacceptable. it is easy in a way for you to say that - unacceptable. it is easy in a way for you to say that with | way for you to say that with great confidence sitting here with me in the hardtalk studio and from your home in exile in paris, but the reality for cambodians is the hun sen regime if i can put it that way because he still is the leader of the ruling party even though he is handing over the premiership, the reality is he looks stronger today than ever.

he uses brutal force but if you recall the last election in 2013, when the opposition was allowed to participate in, we won nearly half of the popular vote, in spite of serious irregularities, had the election been more honest we would have one, definitely. so the support of the population is still there. h0 the support of the population is still there.— the support of the population is still there. no doubt, there was significant _ is still there. no doubt, there was significant support - is still there. no doubt, there was significant support for - was significant support for your cambodia national rescue party in that election but a lot has happened since then, not least to you personally. since 2015 you have been living in paris, you are portrayed by hun sen and the people close to him as a man enjoying a very comfortable life, out of touch with the reality that face ordinary cambodians today. and you also now face a whole host

of legal issues, not least the fact that on several different charges, you have been condemned to life in prison, should you return. so it is hard to see you can still present yourself as a credible leader of the opposition? for opposition _ leader of the opposition? ian" opposition leaders, in cambodia, you can face only three possible fates. 0ne cambodia, you can face only three possible fates. one is assassination, i escaped several assassination attempts. two is jail, i have lost my freedom several times. and third is exile. i am forced into exile. but i am just a symbol, what is important is the world of the people, especially the young generation, who have never seen any other leaders than hun sen for a0 years.

any other leaders than hun sen for 40 veere— for 40 years. yes, let us stick with the exile _ for 40 years. yes, let us stick with the exile idea _ for 40 years. yes, let us stick with the exile idea for- for 40 years. yes, let us stick with the exile idea for a - with the exile idea for a minute. you do have a choice. it is a very tough choice but you could go back to cambodia, the factors you would immediately be arrested and probably be a prisoner for a very long time. but others in the opposition movement have chosen to stay in cambodia, in particular i'm thinking of ken sogavare who has despite years of harassment continue to oppose hun sen from inside cambodia and too many cambodians looks like a man of great courage, of great bravery. i great courage, of great bravery-— great courage, of great brave . ., , bravery. i am prevented, physically _ bravery. i am prevented, physically prevented - bravery. i am prevented, | physically prevented from bravery. i am prevented, - physically prevented from going back to cambodia. hun sen is banned airline companies, who would carry me back to cambodia.— would carry me back to cambodia. ., ., i. cambodia. how do you feel because — cambodia. how do you feel because there _ cambodia. how do you feel because there has - cambodia. how do you feel because there has been - cambodia. how do you feel- because there has been tension between you and kim football, you are collaborators and

cofounders of the cambodia national rescue party, but you seem to have parted company on several different issues. his daughter, he has not been convicted 227 years, i believe, currently under house arrest, his daughter has been quoted as saying quoting him, that a leader never asks supporters to do what he is not willing to do himself. is that a problematic idea for you?— idea for you? not at all. i will no idea for you? not at all. i will go back— idea for you? not at all. i will go back to _ idea for you? not at all. i will go back to cambodia | will go back to cambodia immediately when hun sen stops preventing me physically from moving there. i am ready to go but how can i go? no airline would carry me. and if i go by land i am prevented from entering cambodia. macro said. hun sen said he would ask his soldiers to dig trenches into fire me with machine—guns,

preventing me from just moving into cambodia. so, how can i do? ., ., , ., ., ., do? you have 'ust made a whole series of do? you have just made a whole series of extremely _ do? you have just made a whole series of extremely serious - series of extremely serious allegations directed at me to achieve. he is not here to refute them and what the cambodian government has always said is that you have been accorded due legal process and you have been convicted in cambodia's courts? it's almost impossible to be an active opponent of hun sen and his associates inside cambodia today, there are many political prisoners, street protest is virtually impossible, dissenting voices and newspapers have been closed down. so i appreciate it is very difficult. nonetheless you seem to have achieved something which is sort of extremely problematic for the opposition. you have split the opposition. there are many opponents of hun sen inside cambodia who now

find you to be problematic. i think this is a small group of people, which do not represent the general population. the general population continue to vote for another opposition party, we collect, in spite of the very little time left to prepare the last election, we collected nearly one quarter of the popular vote. and for this year election, we were prevented from running because hun sen new that the trend is very strong in favour of the opposition that i represent. but why is it then, the leader of the candlelight party, which since your party was dissolved, the candlelight party took on the candlelight party took on the mantle as the main opposition leader in cambodia

and its fiction leader is made and its fiction leader is made a point of saying, we have nothing to do with sam rainsy and we want nothing to do with him, why has that happened? this is because hun sen is paranoid. the previous name of the candlelight party i found that party. but hun sen would destroy anything which is related to me. so you can understand why the current leadership of the candlelight party want to distance —— —— disassociate themselves from me or they will be dissolved and put in jail. or they will be dissolved and put in jail-— put in “ail. you have chosen aaain put in jail. you have chosen again to — put in jail. you have chosen again to point _ put in jail. you have chosen again to point your- put in jail. you have chosen again to point your fire, - put in jail. you have chosen| again to point your fire, you have targeted hun sen in that answer. i'm asking you why seniorfigures in the cambodian opposition do not want to be associated with you and it

seems the answers which you did not want to get me, it seems the answers they want to distance themselves from a lot of your political rhetoric, which they find inflammatory and some of it even racist, nationalist, xenophobic and racist? i nationalist, xenophobic and racist? ~ , ., ., racist? i think it is out of fear. racist? i think it is out of fear- hun _ racist? i think it is out of fear. hun sen _ racist? i think it is out of fear. hun sen is - racist? i think it is out of i fear. hun sen is national... forgive me you had made many allegations about hun sen, i am not actually talking about me o2 i am asking you to account for your language over many years, going backa for your language over many years, going back a decade there are many examples of you using inflammatory, racially charged rhetoric, specially directed at the small, ethnic vietnamese population inside cambodia. and some of your fellow opponents of hun sen do not like your language? it is not like your language? it is not for this _ not like your language? it is not for this reason. - not like your language? it is not for this reason. it - not like your language? it is not for this reason. it is - not like your language? it 3 not for this reason. it is out of fear that they want to

distance themselves from me. i was invited to vietnam. i was received by the deputy prime minister by the foreign affairs minister, meaning that they consider me as representative of the cambodian people. and they respect me, receiving me as an official guest. so they respect me, receiving me as an official guest.— as an official guest. so be stopped _ as an official guest. so be stopped using _ as an official guest. so be stopped using the - as an official guest. so be stopped using the word, i as an official guest. so be l stopped using the word, for years you used a word to describe vietnamese people in cambodia which is regarded widely as a slur, as derogatory. have you stopped using that word? ida. derogatory. have you stopped using that word?— using that word? no, it is a matter. _ using that word? no, it is a matter. it _ using that word? no, it is a matter, it is _ using that word? no, it is a matter, it is a _ using that word? no, it is a matter, it is a controversy. | matter, it is a controversy. people who are native cambodian, who speak cambodian they consider, they do not consider any word that we use currently in cambodia as derogatory. currently in cambodia as derogatory-— currently in cambodia as deroaato . ., ., ., ., derogatory. you are not going

to apologise _ derogatory. you are not going to apologise for _ derogatory. you are not going to apologise for your - derogatory. you are not going to apologise for your use - derogatory. you are not going to apologise for your use of i to apologise for your use of language? you said this nine years ago, do you still believe it today, you said of the hun sen leadership that leadership is destroying our country, murdering it bit by bit and they are giving and then you used this racial derogatory word which i am not going to use, they are giving the vietnamese you meant, the chance to kill cambodia." due apologise for saying that? i did not say that, that is a bad translation. i said cambodia has lost territory to neighbouring countries, we lost an island because when hun sen signed a treaty giving that island belonging to cambodia to a neighbouring country. so i have nothing to apologise because this is the truth. there are many human rights workers that worry you have stirred up racism and to quote phil robertson that works for human rights watch in asia when

you are saying some of this, he said races is a problem that encompasses notjust his party but other parties as well, it is an ongoing problem in the way you are using the language he said, it could mean it bursts out into larger violence. ijust wonder if bursts out into larger violence. i just wonder if you have any regrets about the way xenophobic, nationalistic tone? no, not at all. for instance the spokesperson for the government, used the same term. so it means that it is common language, whether you are in the opposition or in the government. d0 the opposition or in the government.— the opposition or in the government. do you think nationalism _ government. do you think nationalism is _ government. do you think nationalism is a _ government. do you think nationalism is a vehicle i government. do you think. nationalism is a vehicle you can use to erode support for hun sen and now hun manet. we don't hun sen and now hun manet. - don't need nationalism there are enough serious problems facing the cambodian people, which is property, which is corruption, which is social injustice, which is

deforestation which is a modern form of slavery, so these issues are really big concerns that we have to address. fin that we have to address. on that we have to address. on that score — that we have to address. on that score look at the data, over two decades, cambodia over 0rnstein have delivered average growth rates of over 7%, heazlett cambodian is out of poverty and improved infant mortality rates, improved longevity of life in cambodia, on so many measures quality of life in cambodia, cambodians have experienced very positive developments? the have experienced very positive developments?— developments? the contrary would have _ developments? the contrary would have been _ developments? the contrary would have been surprising. | would have been surprising. because cambodia came from a very low level. after the deceptions caused by war, after massacre, cambodia was virtually reduced to ashes. so when you come from a near zero

level, your progress can be only noticeable. but the six, 7% per year is not extraordinary, it is in line with the growth enjoyed by neighbouring countries. but more importantly, you have to look at the quality of the growth. you have two see whether this growth has been sustainable and equitable. they have not been sustainable and equitable because cambodia has suffered from the highest deforestation rates in the world. and with the social fabric tearing down because of human trafficking, prostitution, how can that kind of growth be sustainable? what

of growth be sustainable? what one can say _ of growth be sustainable? what one can say is _ of growth be sustainable? what one can say is the _ one can say is the international community has deepened its trading relationships with cambodia, cambodia is now seen as a low—cost manufacture to the world. low-cost manufacture to the world. , ., ., , low-cost manufacture to the | world-_ yes. world. yes, fortunately. yes, fortunately — world. yes, fortunately. yes, fortunately they _ world. yes, fortunately. yes, fortunately they continue - world. yes, fortunately. yes, fortunately they continue to i fortunately they continue to help cambodia, the international community. you approve of that? yes international community. you approve of that?— approve of that? yes to help the cambodian _ approve of that? yes to help the cambodian people. - the people. but they are also helinu the people. but they are also helping hun _ the people. but they are also helping hun sen _ the people. but they are also helping hun sen and - the people. but they are also helping hun sen and this - helping hun sen and this colleagues the people. but they are also helping to — the people. but they are also helping to stay _ the people. but they are also helping to stay in _ the people. but they are also helping to stay in power. - helping to stay in power. because hun sen holds the cambodian people hostage. he blackmailed the international community. they must have cambodian people. through... . so ou cambodian people. through... . so you have _ cambodian people. through... . so you have been _ cambodian people. through... . so you have been sitting - cambodian people. through... . so you have been sitting in - so you have been sitting in paris delivering that message saying the international community must get real and wake up to what is happening inside cambodia and put real pressure on hun sen. you've been saying it for so long and nothing is happening. look at

this record in as leanne. he has been fully embraced into the regional group. i think he has chaired the as ian summit three times. look at this relationship with emmanuel macron. despite the fact that the a.u. put limited trade sanctions on cambodia not so long ago hun sen was crowing about the warmth of this relationship with macron and the two were pin —— pictured holding hands. but the two were pin -- pictured holding hands.— the two were pin -- pictured holding hands. but look at the humid rights _ holding hands. but look at the humid rights organisation - holding hands. but look at the | humid rights organisation have said —— human rights organisation have said about the violations committed by hun sen. i am asking for personal sanctions, targeted sanctions against individuals, those responsible for serious human rights violations for the destruction of democracy in cambodia. destruction of democracy in cambodia-— destruction of democracy in cambodia. ., , cambodia. are you not prepared to live cambodia. are you not prepared to give hun _ cambodia. are you not prepared to give hun manet, _ cambodia. are you not prepared to give hun manet, the - cambodia. are you not prepared to give hun manet, the son - cambodia. are you not prepared to give hun manet, the son of. to give hun manet, the son of

hun sen, a chance? i to give hun manet, the son of hun sen, a chance?— hun sen, a chance? i think he is a prisoner _ hun sen, a chance? i think he is a prisoner of _ hun sen, a chance? i think he is a prisoner of the _ hun sen, a chance? i think he is a prisoner of the system. i is a prisoner of the system. remember what happened to syria in 2000 when al—assad was replaced by his son, more educated and more open, presumably, people expected there would be an improvement of the regime. hat there would be an improvement of the regime.— of the regime. not at all. the americans — of the regime. not at all. the americans are _ of the regime. not at all. the americans are hoping - of the regime. not at all. the americans are hoping that. americans are hoping that because they are aware he was educated at west point. he was also educated in part in the united kingdom. what the west sees in hun manet, i think, is the possibility of a leader who is more open than his father. this is exactly what the west expected from bashar al—assad. but the child is worse than the father because the regime remained the same and the sun is a prisoner of the system set

“p is a prisoner of the system set up ljy is a prisoner of the system set up by the father. this is true in syria as well as in cambodia.— in syria as well as in cambodia. ~ ., ., ., cambodia. whether or not that caettin cambodia. whether or not that getting through _ cambodia. whether or not that getting through in _ cambodia. whether or not that getting through in places - cambodia. whether or not that getting through in places like l getting through in places like washington and london it does not seem to cut any ice in the capital that matters the most when it comes to diplomacy and thatis when it comes to diplomacy and that is beijing's because regime has an ironclad alliance with hun sen and the current cambodian government. nothing you say or do will change that, is it? �* .., , you say or do will change that, isit? , ,., . is it? because the strategic alliance between _ is it? because the strategic alliance between hun - is it? because the strategic alliance between hun sen | is it? because the strategic i alliance between hun sen and beijing's is crucial to hun sen. is essential to hun sen. and for china, china has decided to make cambodia a military stronghold, an outpost for china in her expansionist

policy. for china in her expansionist oli . . , for china in her expansionist oli _ ., , , for china in her expansionist oli . ., , , ., policy. china is building a ort in policy. china is building a port in cambodia - policy. china is building a port in cambodia that - policy. china is building a i port in cambodia that many people believe could be used by the chinese navy ultimately. that is why the west must accept the fact that hun sen and hun manet will depend on china for their very survival. hun sen is positive towards the means of the chinese government and the sophisticated means they have to control the population. you have a strategic choice to make of your own. 0bviously strategic choice to make of your own. obviously you hope your own. obviously you hope you are still speaking to the cambodian people and getting your message across to the cambodian people. as your message to them today in terms of the geopolitical rivalry between the united states and china, which is so important to your naiad —— neighbourhood in southeast asia, are you telling the canadian people that if you were in power you would make a

fundamental shift and aligning cambodia much more with the united states and western interest than with beijing? is that what you say? i interest than with bei'ing? is that what you say?_ that what you say? i call on the international _ that what you say? i call on i the international community, especially the 17 countries who signed the agreement in 1991 to implement that treaty, that international treaty that mandates cambodia to be a neutral and independent country. neutral and independent count . �* neutral and independent country-— neutral and independent count .�* ., , , country. but that ship has sailed. that _ country. but that ship has sailed. that is _ country. but that ship has sailed. that is more - country. but that ship has sailed. that is more than | country. but that ship has i sailed. that is more than 30 years ago. you seriously think that the international community, perhaps you think the united states in the lead, is going to go out of its way, given the problems in the world today, make a big effort to go back to that treaty? flit today, make a big effort to go back to that treaty? of course. the last statement _ back to that treaty? of course. the last statement by - back to that treaty? of course. the last statement by the - the last statement by the french government recalls the paris peace agreement because it is very important for cambodia to stick to their principles and for cambodia to

remain a neutral and independent country, not to allow any foreign power to build military bases on her soil. build military bases on her soil, y., , build military bases on her soil. i. , , build military bases on her soil. , soil. so your message is you still want — soil. so your message is you still want to _ soil. so your message is you still want to believe - soil. so your message is you still want to believe that - soil. so your message is you still want to believe that the j still want to believe that the 1991 peace accord can be implemented some 30 something years later but in the meantime, what will you do now? you sit there in paris and have told me you absolutely cannot go home, there is no room to manoeuvre from any opposition group in today's cambodia. what can you really offer the cambodian people? this can chance cambodian people? this can change at — cambodian people? this can change at any _ cambodian people? this can change at any time. - cambodian people? this can change at any time. the - cambodian people? this can i change at any time. the former king was exiled for many years and hun sen himself had to flee the country to escape a massacre from the khmer rouge. so what i call for as a free and fair election so the cambodian people can decide,

through real elections. [30 cambodian people can decide, through real elections.- through real elections. do you believe that _ through real elections. do you believe that there _ through real elections. do you believe that there ever - through real elections. do you believe that there ever could i believe that there ever could believe that there ever could be a popular uprising, some sort of street movement that was capable of bringing down the current regime? i do was capable of bringing down the current regime?- the current regime? i do not call for that. _ the current regime? i do not call for that. i _ the current regime? i do not call for that. i just _ the current regime? i do not call for that. i just call- the current regime? i do not call for that. i just call for i call for that. i just call for peaceful democratic process meaning free and fair elections. and this is according to the paris peace agreement, this must be organised with the support of the international community. if you stop respecting an international treaty, where are we going to? what is the use of signing any international treaty if you do not respect them? ., ~' ., ~' ,., them? samak three, i thank you forjoining _ them? samak three, i thank you forjoining me — them? samak three, i thank you forjoining me on _ them? samak three, i thank you forjoining me on hard _ them? samak three, i thank you forjoining me on hard pork. i them? samak three, i thank you forjoining me on hard pork. -- i forjoining me on hard pork. —— sam mack three —— rainsyi —— rainsy i thank you for

joining me on hard pork. —— hardtalk. hello. let's have a look at the weather forecast for the week ahead. 0n weather forecast for the week ahead. on wednesday it was cloudy with showers across scotland and the best of the sunshine for southern counties of northern ireland and england and wales largely dry with a lot of sunshine, blue sky here in norfolk and light winds in pembrokeshire. it will turn warner at —— warmer as we had through the rest of the week across the board. humid but not dry, wet and windy particularly on friday. 0n dry, wet and windy particularly on friday. on thursday we draw more of a south—easterly wind sending a warm muggy airfrom the near continent our way so that you point will rise as will the temperature. but there is a lot of low cloud around to

start the day on thursday, domestic conditions as well that will not last for too long and be bent back by the sunshine quite regularly. highest temperatures may be for western areas of wales. most places are largely dry but there will should be showers taking out in the west as temperatures start to rise. mild and muggy on thursday night, looking towards the atlantic where there is a deeper area of low pressure sending these weather fronts spinning away with bouts of heavy rain pushing northwards and eastwards through the day. heavy downpours, thundering places, gusty winds especially across western areas of wales. muqqy across western areas of wales. muggy and warm underneath the cloud and rain in the north and the rain dragging its hills, driver most of the was sunshine across scotland and temperatures in the high teens. the rain is still pushing northwards and eastwards on friday night and a very muggy and sticky feeling night in the south around 18 or 19 degrees. 0n south around 18 or 19 degrees. on saturday there is fresh

feeling hour, still warm but rain clears the north and scotland could have a few showers towards the west but some sunshine and temperatures across the board in the low— mid 20s celsius and it looks very similar as we had through saturday night and into sunday. low pressure centred out towards the north and the western that could be a few showers across northern ireland and western scotland whether we will also pick up at times. warmest and driest across east anglia in the south—east of england. 25 celsius here. there is uncertainty as we head into the start of next week but the low pressure is likely to stick towards the north and the west. cloudy here and quite showery across areas of scotland and northern ireland, perhaps into north—west england as well but the highest temperature in the driest weather is across east anglia and the south—east of england temperatures higher peaking at 27— 28 celsius, the same is due on tuesday. uncertainty deepens as the week

went on, you could draw very warm airfrom parts of went on, you could draw very warm air from parts of france and temperatures could possibly rise into the low— mid 30s or we could see the low pressure start to move across the whole of the uk and introduce this cooler and more showery conditions. this is certainly one outcome. looking at london, temperature drops him back down to the low 20s and we start to draw in more showers. cooler and more showery the further north and west you go. 0r and more showery the further north and west you go. or we could drag in the very warm air into the middle and end of the next working week. towards the north and west will be cooler and more showery and towards the south and the east looks dry and warm but how long for and how warm will it get estimate goodbye.

live from london, this is bbc news. the names of the first victims of maui's wildfires have been released ahead ofjoe biden's visit to hawaii next week. students in england, wales and northern ireland are receiving exam results today but are being warned that a—level results in england are set to drop for a second year running. and: another casting controversy for the movie industry. should an israeli orjewish actor have been picked to play the israeli prime

minister golda meir? hello, i'm tadhg enright. president biden says he will travel to hawaii next week to inspect the response to the deadly wildfires on the island of maui. he's been criticised by his political opponents, who've said he's been slow to see the devastation. he'll meet the survivors and emergency workers. the white house says he'll visit scenes of wildfire damage and discuss next steps in the recovery operations with officials. so far, officials have confirmed that 110 people have died in the fires, but that number is expected to rise as the search continues. only 38% of the affected area has been searched, and just a handful of victims have been identified.