good morning. this is chris warburton in for nicky campbell on the nation's phone—in. really keen to see what you think about this incredible story we have been learning about this morning. the uk's first womb transplant: does it offer hope for you? they're calling it the "dawn of a new era", a new age in fertility treatment. surgeons in oxford having carried out the first ever womb transplant in the uk. and an incredible act of sisterly love. the recipient, a 34—year—old woman, donated the womb from her ao—year—old sister. now, six months on from the procedure, the recipient is having periods and is preparing to eventually have her own embryos implanted, already created

via ivf with her own eggs. for now, the plan is to focus on living donations from a relative with up to 30 transplants a year, but many women have apparently come forward to offer their wombs. what does this amazing procedure mean to you? if you have issues with your womb — does this give you new hope? or if you or your partner have been struggling to conceive for other reasons, tell us what that's been like and what it means to you to see science pushing these kind of barriers? became�*s first womb transplant, does it offer hope to you —— the uk's first womb transplant.

just after nine if you are listening on five live or whether you are watching on the bbc news channel, it's time for the news. a 34—year—old woman has received the uk's first womb transplant — performed at a hospital in oxford by a team of around 20 people. she was born without a uterus because of a rare medical disorder. the donor was her older sister, who already has two children. the bbc�*s seen graphic evidence compiled by prosecutors in romania — alleging that the social media influencer, andrew tate, coerced women into sexual acts. both mr tate and his brother tristan are accused of human trafficking and forming an organised crime group. they deny all the charges. police in pakistan have questioned three relatives of a 10—year—old girl who was found dead at her home in surrey. the body of sara sharif was discovered in woking

nearly two weeks ago. an international search is continuing for her father, stepmother and uncle — who all flew to pakistan the day before the girl's body was found. and india could become the first country to reach the south pole of the moon later. the unmanned chandrayaan—3 lander is expected to touch down this lunchtime. thanks for being with us this morning. the uk's first womb transplant, does it offer hope for you? call me on 08085 909693. some amazing details around the procedure around the operation and procedure. on the 25 years that it took to get to this point, the 25 years of research. currently more

than 15,000 women of child—bearing age in this country who have absolute uterine factor infertility, which is what it is called here, they were either born without a womb or had a hysterectomy due to cancer or had a hysterectomy due to cancer or other abnormalities of the womb. one of the charities involved here have said more than 500 women had contacted the charity wishing to take part in the programme and around a dozen had embryos in storage or were undergoing fertility treatment, a prerequisite for getting on the waiting list. the people involved in this, it's been amazing, the people at the oxford transfer centre. a quick clip from them because the consultant surgeon called isabel ouiroga, was involved in transplanting the womb. here she is. i in transplanting the womb. here she is. , , ., ., ., is. i believe when you hear women talkin: is. i believe when you hear women talking about _ is. i believe when you hear women talking about this _ is. i believe when you hear women talking about this problem, - is. i believe when you hear women talking about this problem, i - talking about this problem, i believe we have a duty to help them, because we know it works. it does

come with huge risk for the recipient and the living donor as well and it's not for everyone. women have other choices they could have surrogacy or adopt a child but for a small number of women this will be the right option for them. we talked about some of the emotion involved for the recipient, the donor, what they've been through, the professionals and medics have been through, so let's speak to a medic, someone who knows this line of work very well, adam dalen, professor of reproductive medicine leeds teaching hospitals nhs trust. good morning. leeds teaching hospitals nhs trust. good morning-— leeds teaching hospitals nhs trust. i good morning._ good good morning. good morning. good mornin: good morning. good morning. good morning and — good morning. good morning. good morning and thanks _ good morning. good morning. good morning and thanks for _ good morning. good morning. good morning and thanks for talking - good morning. good morning. good morning and thanks for talking to i morning and thanks for talking to us. and leah is an nhs midwife and the author of a novel. hello, good morning to you as well. talk us

through what kind of breakthrough we are talking about? i’d through what kind of breakthrough we are talking about?— are talking about? i'd like to congratulate _ are talking about? i'd like to congratulate the _ are talking about? i'd like to congratulate the team - are talking about? i'd like to congratulate the team in - are talking about? i'd like to - congratulate the team in oxford and london for their achievement because it is very exacting and to achieve this in the uk is fantastic news. worldwide there have probably been in the region of a hundred womb transplants already in the first baby reported was gothenburg sweden in 2014 and it's difficult to know the exact number but i think about 50 babies have been born worldwide but to enable the creation of families in the uk through wooden transplantation is a real breakthrough and this is predominantly for women who have been born without a uterus, about one in 5000 girls born in the uk without a uterus, they have ovaries,

functioning ovaries so they can produce eggs and we can collect eggs through the ivs process and fertilise them in a laboratory which has happened for this couple, so they have embryos already frozen which can be used and transplanted into whole womb because the operation has been successful, but up operation has been successful, but up until now the option for those who wish to have their own genetic children would be through surrogacy which is legal in the uk and surrogacy works very well for many people but this is obviously another opportunity to start a family and carry your own pregnancy which ultimately is extremely important. presents an opportunity and that's why were talking about hope and how hopeful people should be about this.

but talk is through the operation. from your understanding, what does it involve and how long is it take and what risks are involved as well? first of all the donor, i believe the sister of the lady had to go through a hysterectomy and hysterectomy to remove a uterus for many causes takes half an hour or so but for this sort of procedure it takes several hours because it's very important to ensure the blood vessels that need to be connected in her sister as the recipient need to be, and i don't like using the term, but to put it bluntly plumbed into the recipient so the blood vessels have to have a certain length and it's a much more complex hysterectomy for the donor and then the recipient herself has to go through very exacting surgery because she does not have and i don't like using the word plumbing,

but she does not have the same blood vessel she would have had how she had a uterus in the first place, so the blood vessels have to be connected into the blood vessels that supply the arteries that go into the legs so it's very complex surgery and takes many hours and i wasn't part of this team but i believe the operation took in the region of 17 hours or so so many hours requires a huge amount of skill so i do congratulate the team for achieving it. i skill so i do congratulate the team for achieving it.— for achieving it. i think the language _ for achieving it. i think the language you _ for achieving it. i think the language you are - for achieving it. i think the language you are choosing for achieving it. i think the i language you are choosing to for achieving it. i think the - language you are choosing to lose actually probably helps us a little bit in terms of knowing what happened. leah, one thing hand —— stands out is the technical aspect and the medical work involved but on

and the medical work involved but on an emotional level, the act of sisterly love involved here is something to behold as well. absolutely there is a huge element of altruism and generosity coming with any— of altruism and generosity coming with any transplant procedure and what would would argue natural for family— what would would argue natural for family members to want to help another— family members to want to help another family family members to want to help anotherfamily memberas family members to want to help another family member as happens with so_ another family member as happens with so many other transplants with kidneys _ with so many other transplants with kidneys for — with so many other transplants with kidneys for example which has become fairly routine for family members and it's— fairly routine for family members and it's incredibly moving to know not only— and it's incredibly moving to know not only you are donating an organ but potentially the gift of new life, that is really tremendous and it's incredibly moving and i was lucky— it's incredibly moving and i was lucky enough in 2019 to go to sweden and observe a transplant performed and observe a transplant performed and lay— and observe a transplant performed and by the — and observe a transplant performed and by the team and the palpable

feeling _ and by the team and the palpable feeling of emotion and joy and meaning — feeling of emotion and joy and meaning is tremendous, truly outstanding.— outstanding. that is what the ex - erts outstanding. that is what the exoerts have _ outstanding. that is what the experts have talked - outstanding. that is what the experts have talked about. i outstanding. that is what the l experts have talked about. did outstanding. that is what the - experts have talked about. did you think when he went into this line of work that you would see such a thing? work that you would see such a thin ? ~ , ,., , work that you would see such a thin? �* , ., work that you would see such a thin? ~ , ., ., , thing? absolutely not, i really didn't and _ thing? absolutely not, i really didn't and it — thing? absolutely not, i really didn't and it was _ thing? absolutely not, i really didn't and it was shot - thing? absolutely not, i really didn't and it was shot in - thing? absolutely not, i really didn't and it was shot in the i thing? absolutely not, i really i didn't and it was shot in the dark when _ didn't and it was shot in the dark when i _ didn't and it was shot in the dark when i e—mailto didn't and it was shot in the dark when i e—mail to see if i could speak— when i e—mail to see if i could speak to — when i e—mail to see if i could speak to him about his work and he replied _ speak to him about his work and he replied lry— speak to him about his work and he replied by inviting me to the procedure which i didn't expect and i procedure which i didn't expect and i found _ procedure which i didn't expect and i found myself in the hospital and observing — i found myself in the hospital and observing the operation was an incredible privilege and i think anybody— incredible privilege and i think anybody who is even tangentially related _ anybody who is even tangentially related to a pioneering surgery like this is— related to a pioneering surgery like this is incredibly lucky. it's a very— this is incredibly lucky. it's a very exciting time.— this is incredibly lucky. it's a very exciting time. there is the number to _ very exciting time. there is the number to call. _ very exciting time. there is the number to call. and _ very exciting time. there is the number to call. and if - very exciting time. there is the number to call. and if you - very exciting time. there is the i number to call. and if you want very exciting time. there is the i number to call. and if you want to drop some text, the uk's first womb

transplant, does it offer hope for you and if you've been struggling to conceive and when you see pushing the barriers of nature this way, what goes through your head, does it give you extra hope,. it would be great to speak to about this. we will come back to adam and leah in a moment but we've been joined will come back to adam and leah in a moment but we've beenjoined by fergus walsh the bbc medical editor. good morning. fergus walsh the bbc medical editor. good morning-— fergus walsh the bbc medical editor. good morning._ tell. fergus walsh the bbc medical editor. good morning._ tell us good morning. good morning. tell us how everyone — good morning. good morning. tell us how everyone is _ good morning. good morning. tell us how everyone is doing _ good morning. good morning. tell us how everyone is doing here, - good morning. good morning. tell us how everyone is doing here, the i how everyone is doing here, the recipient and the donor, how why they doing after this? thea;r recipient and the donor, how why they doing after this?— they doing after this? they are doinu they doing after this? they are doing really — they doing after this? they are doing really well. _ they doing after this? they are doing really well. both - they doing after this? they are i doing really well. both recovered from _ doing really well. both recovered from surgery— doing really well. both recovered from surgery on— doing really well. both recovered from surgery on the _ doing really well. both recovered from surgery on the donor- doing really well. both recovered from surgery on the donor spentl doing really well. both recovered i from surgery on the donor spent five days in_ from surgery on the donor spent five days in hospital. _ from surgery on the donor spent five days in hospital, and _ from surgery on the donor spent five days in hospital, and she _ from surgery on the donor spent five days in hospital, and she had - from surgery on the donor spent five days in hospital, and she had her- days in hospital, and she had her first period —

days in hospital, and she had her first period two _ days in hospital, and she had her first period two weeks _ days in hospital, and she had her first period two weeks after i first period two weeks after receiving _ first period two weeks after receiving her— first period two weeks after receiving her sister's - first period two weeks after receiving her sister's wombi first period two weeks after i receiving her sister's womb and first period two weeks after - receiving her sister's womb and i've spoken— receiving her sister's womb and i've spoken to _ receiving her sister's womb and i've spoken to the — receiving her sister's womb and i've spoken to the lead _ receiving her sister's womb and i've spoken to the lead surgeons - receiving her sister's womb and i've spoken to the lead surgeons and i receiving her sister's womb and i've i spoken to the lead surgeons and they say both— spoken to the lead surgeons and they say both sisters — spoken to the lead surgeons and they say both sisters are _ spoken to the lead surgeons and they say both sisters are doing _ spoken to the lead surgeons and they say both sisters are doing well - spoken to the lead surgeons and they say both sisters are doing well and i say both sisters are doing well and the transplanted _ say both sisters are doing well and the transplanted uterus _ say both sisters are doing well and the transplanted uterus is - the transplanted uterus is functioning _ the transplanted uterus is functioning normally- the transplanted uterus is functioning normally and i the transplanted uterus is i functioning normally and they the transplanted uterus is - functioning normally and they are allowing — functioning normally and they are allowing it — functioning normally and they are allowing it to _ functioning normally and they are allowing it to settle _ functioning normally and they are allowing it to settle for _ functioning normally and they are allowing it to settle for six - functioning normally and they are l allowing it to settle for six months or so _ allowing it to settle for six months or so before — allowing it to settle for six months or so before the _ allowing it to settle for six months or so before the younger- allowing it to settle for six months or so before the younger sister- allowing it to settle for six months| or so before the younger sister will io or so before the younger sister will go on _ or so before the younger sister will go on to— or so before the younger sister will go onto have — or so before the younger sister will go on to have embryos— or so before the younger sister will| go on to have embryos transferred. she and _ go on to have embryos transferred. she and her— go on to have embryos transferred. she and her husband _ go on to have embryos transferred. she and her husband because - go on to have embryos transferred. she and her husband because she l go on to have embryos transferred. i she and her husband because she was born with _ she and her husband because she was born with functioning _ she and her husband because she was born with functioning ovaries - born with functioning ovaries already— born with functioning ovaries already had _ born with functioning ovaries already had eight _ born with functioning ovaries already had eight embryos i born with functioning ovariesi already had eight embryos in born with functioning ovaries - already had eight embryos in storage and it— already had eight embryos in storage and it was— already had eight embryos in storage and it was a — already had eight embryos in storage and it was a prerequisite _ already had eight embryos in storage and it was a prerequisite to _ already had eight embryos in storage and it was a prerequisite to get - already had eight embryos in storage and it was a prerequisite to get on i and it was a prerequisite to get on the waiting — and it was a prerequisite to get on the waiting list _ and it was a prerequisite to get on the waiting list for— and it was a prerequisite to get on the waiting list for this _ and it was a prerequisite to get on the waiting list for this procedure i the waiting list for this procedure that couples _ the waiting list for this procedure that couples had _ the waiting list for this procedure that couples had embryos- the waiting list for this procedure that couples had embryos of- the waiting list for this procedure| that couples had embryos of their own in— that couples had embryos of their own in storage _ that couples had embryos of their own in storage and _ that couples had embryos of their own in storage and she's - that couples had embryos of their own in storage and she's hoping i that couples had embryos of theirl own in storage and she's hoping to -et own in storage and she's hoping to get pregnant— own in storage and she's hoping to get pregnant because _ own in storage and she's hoping to get pregnant because this- own in storage and she's hoping to get pregnant because this story. own in storage and she's hoping to get pregnant because this story is| get pregnant because this story is not over— get pregnant because this story is not over yet— get pregnant because this story is not over yet and _ get pregnant because this story is not over yet and in— get pregnant because this story is not over yet and in the _ get pregnant because this story is not over yet and in the autumn i get pregnant because this story is. not over yet and in the autumn and have _ not over yet and in the autumn and have a _ not over yet and in the autumn and have a baby— not over yet and in the autumn and have a baby next _ not over yet and in the autumn and have a baby next year _ not over yet and in the autumn and have a baby next year and - not over yet and in the autumn and have a baby next year and has i not over yet and in the autumn and i have a baby next year and has made it clear _ have a baby next year and has made it clear to _ have a baby next year and has made it clear to the — have a baby next year and has made it clear to the surgeons _ have a baby next year and has made it clear to the surgeons that - have a baby next year and has made it clear to the surgeons that she i it clear to the surgeons that she would _ it clear to the surgeons that she would like — it clear to the surgeons that she would like to _ it clear to the surgeons that she would like to have _ it clear to the surgeons that she would like to have two - it clear to the surgeons that she would like to have two childrenl it clear to the surgeons that she i would like to have two children and potentially — would like to have two children and potentially a — would like to have two children and potentially a donated _ would like to have two children and potentially a donated uterus - would like to have two children and potentially a donated uterus can i potentially a donated uterus can take two — potentially a donated uterus can take two pregnancies _

potentially a donated uterus can take two pregnancies and - potentially a donated uterus can take two pregnancies and then i take two pregnancies and then importantly_ take two pregnancies and then importantly the _ take two pregnancies and then importantly the uterus - take two pregnancies and then importantly the uterus will- take two pregnancies and then importantly the uterus will be i importantly the uterus will be removed, _ importantly the uterus will be removed, because _ importantly the uterus will be removed, because and - importantly the uterus will be removed, because and and i importantly the uterus will be i removed, because and and she is allowed _ removed, because and and she is allowed to— removed, because and and she is allowed to take _ removed, because and and she is. allowed to take immunosuppressive drugs _ allowed to take immunosuppressive drugs and _ allowed to take immunosuppressive drugs and they— allowed to take immunosuppressive drugs and they carry _ allowed to take immunosuppressive drugs and they carry long—term i drugs and they carry long—term health— drugs and they carry long—term health risks _ drugs and they carry long—term health risks and _ drugs and they carry long—term health risks and assumes - drugs and they carry long—term health risks and assumes she l drugs and they carry long—term i health risks and assumes she has finished _ health risks and assumes she has finished with _ health risks and assumes she has finished with using _ health risks and assumes she has finished with using the _ health risks and assumes she has finished with using the uterus, i health risks and assumes she has finished with using the uterus, iti finished with using the uterus, it will be _ finished with using the uterus, it will be removed. _ finished with using the uterus, it will be removed. find— finished with using the uterus, it will be removed.— finished with using the uterus, it will be removed. and as you say in the meantime _ will be removed. and as you say in the meantime she _ will be removed. and as you say in the meantime she has _ will be removed. and as you say in the meantime she has to - will be removed. and as you say in the meantime she has to take i the meantime she has to take immunosuppressive drugs, as you would expect. adam, i know we will lose you shortly because you have your professionaljob to do which is not talking to me, that question around hope at the heart of what we are talking about this morning. , how much hope do you think it gives to women who don't have a functioning womb and are seeing this this morning? alejos i think it gives a lot of hope but it's

important to highlight the breadth of fertility problems that we see which is common in the programme has been funded through charity and if i could make one plug, it is really important that the nhs funds fertility treatment much better than it does now. and there is a postcode lottery and there are many causes of infertility and if you think you have fertility problems see a gp and get refer to a fertility specialist because there are many things we can do and i think this highlights that for many years the uk has been at the forefront of fertility treatment and we were proud to announce back in 1978 the first ivf baby so we are leaders in the field and we need more funding and support because treatments work well and there is

hope for many people. we appreciate your time this morning professor adam and we are still busily a hazard, the nhs midlife. fergus walsh the bbc medical editor, we can talk about the nhs and the future funding in a moment but where are we in terms of what the hope is in the next few months and years because as things stand only a small percentage of people can have a similar procedure however it is funded. that team involved _ procedure however it is funded. that team involved in this have permission _ team involved in this have permission to— team involved in this have permission to do - team involved in this have permission to do 15- team involved in this have i permission to do 15 transplants team involved in this have - permission to do 15 transplants in total. _ permission to do 15 transplants in total. ten— permission to do 15 transplants in total. ten using _ permission to do 15 transplants in total, ten using deceased - permission to do 15 transplants in total, ten using deceased donorsl permission to do 15 transplants in i total, ten using deceased donors and five using _ total, ten using deceased donors and five using living — total, ten using deceased donors and five using living donors— total, ten using deceased donors and five using living donors as _ total, ten using deceased donors and five using living donors as we - total, ten using deceased donors and five using living donors as we saw- five using living donors as we saw each _ five using living donors as we saw each needs— five using living donors as we saw each needs to _ five using living donors as we saw each needs to be _ five using living donors as we saw each needs to be funded - five using living donors as we saw each needs to be funded and i five using living donors as we saw. each needs to be funded and needs five using living donors as we saw- each needs to be funded and needs to be funded _

each needs to be funded and needs to be funded by— each needs to be funded and needs to be funded by charity— each needs to be funded and needs to be funded by charity and _ each needs to be funded and needs to be funded by charity and all— each needs to be funded and needs to be funded by charity and all the - each needs to be funded and needs to be funded by charity and all the 20 i be funded by charity and all the 20 staff in_ be funded by charity and all the 20 staff in the — be funded by charity and all the 20 staff in the theatre _ be funded by charity and all the 20 staff in the theatre and _ be funded by charity and all the 20 staff in the theatre and in - be funded by charity and all the 20 staff in the theatre and in total- staff in the theatre and in total who gave — staff in the theatre and in total who gave up _ staff in the theatre and in total who gave up their— staff in the theatre and in total who gave up their time - staff in the theatre and in total who gave up their time in- staff in the theatre and in total- who gave up their time in february all donated — who gave up their time in february all donated that _ who gave up their time in february all donated that time _ who gave up their time in february all donated that time for _ who gave up their time in february all donated that time for free i who gave up their time in february all donated that time for free and. all donated that time for free and the team — all donated that time for free and the team are _ all donated that time for free and the team are conscious _ all donated that time for free and the team are conscious they i all donated that time for free andl the team are conscious they didn't want _ the team are conscious they didn't want to— the team are conscious they didn't want to add — the team are conscious they didn't want to add to _ the team are conscious they didn't want to add to a _ the team are conscious they didn't want to add to a waiting _ the team are conscious they didn't want to add to a waiting list - the team are conscious they didn't want to add to a waiting list so i want to add to a waiting list so they— want to add to a waiting list so they did — want to add to a waiting list so they did it— want to add to a waiting list so they did it on— want to add to a waiting list so they did it on a _ want to add to a waiting list so they did it on a sunday - want to add to a waiting list so they did it on a sunday when i want to add to a waiting list so i they did it on a sunday when the operating — they did it on a sunday when the operating theatre _ they did it on a sunday when the operating theatre was _ they did it on a sunday when the operating theatre was not - they did it on a sunday when the operating theatre was not beingl operating theatre was not being used, _ operating theatre was not being used. so — operating theatre was not being used. so this— operating theatre was not being used, so this is _ operating theatre was not being used, so this is not— operating theatre was not being used, so this is not going - operating theatre was not being used, so this is not going to- operating theatre was not being i used, so this is not going to become an everyday— used, so this is not going to become an everyday operation _ used, so this is not going to become an everyday operation but _ used, so this is not going to become an everyday operation but there i used, so this is not going to become an everyday operation but there arei an everyday operation but there are an everyday operation but there are a lot of— an everyday operation but there are a lot of women— an everyday operation but there are a lot of women who _ an everyday operation but there are a lot of women who could _ an everyday operation but there are a lot of women who could benefit i an everyday operation but there are| a lot of women who could benefit as you know _ a lot of women who could benefit as you know and — a lot of women who could benefit as you know and one _ a lot of women who could benefit as you know and one in— a lot of women who could benefit as you know and one in 5000 - a lot of women who could benefit as you know and one in 5000 women l you know and one in 5000 women are born without _ you know and one in 5000 women are born without a — you know and one in 5000 women are born without a functioning _ you know and one in 5000 women are born without a functioning womb i you know and one in 5000 women are born without a functioning womb and i born without a functioning womb and then thousands — born without a functioning womb and then thousands more _ born without a functioning womb and then thousands more who _ born without a functioning womb and then thousands more who lose - born without a functioning womb and then thousands more who lose theirl then thousands more who lose their uterus _ then thousands more who lose their uterus due — then thousands more who lose their uterus due to — then thousands more who lose their uterus due to cancer— then thousands more who lose their uterus due to cancer and _ then thousands more who lose their uterus due to cancer and there's- uterus due to cancer and there's about— uterus due to cancer and there's about 12 — uterus due to cancer and there's about 12 women _ uterus due to cancer and there's about 12 women who _ uterus due to cancer and there's about 12 women who are - uterus due to cancer and there's about 12 women who are going i uterus due to cancer and there's- about 12 women who are going through ivf about 12 women who are going through ivf to _ about 12 women who are going through ivf to get _ about 12 women who are going through ivf to get embryos _ about 12 women who are going through ivf to get embryos in— about 12 women who are going through ivf to get embryos in storage - about 12 women who are going through ivf to get embryos in storage and i ivf to get embryos in storage and there _ ivf to get embryos in storage and there is— ivf to get embryos in storage and there is the — ivf to get embryos in storage and there is the makings— ivf to get embryos in storage and there is the makings of— ivf to get embryos in storage and there is the makings of a - ivf to get embryos in storage and there is the makings of a waiting i there is the makings of a waiting list there — there is the makings of a waiting list there and _ there is the makings of a waiting list there and they _ there is the makings of a waiting list there and they hope - there is the makings of a waiting list there and they hope to - there is the makings of a waiting list there and they hope to do i there is the makings of a waiting i list there and they hope to do the next transplant _ list there and they hope to do the next transplant later— list there and they hope to do the next transplant later this - list there and they hope to do the

next transplant later this year. i list there and they hope to do thel next transplant later this year. fire next transplant later this year. are there next transplant later this year. there stipulations around next transplant later this year. bin; there stipulations around the donors? do they have to be a family member or relative as things stand? no, they don't have to be a family member~ — no, they don't have to be a family member. indeed, _ no, they don't have to be a family member. indeed, the— no, they don't have to be a family member. indeed, the case - no, they don't have to be a family member. indeed, the case in- no, they don't have to be a family. member. indeed, the case in sweden in 2013— member. indeed, the case in sweden in 2013 where — member. indeed, the case in sweden in 2013 where a — member. indeed, the case in sweden in 2013 where a woman _ member. indeed, the case in sweden in 2013 where a woman was - member. indeed, the case in sweden in 2013 where a woman was given i member. indeed, the case in sweden in 2013 where a woman was given a i in 2013 where a woman was given a womb— in 2013 where a woman was given a womb transplant— in 2013 where a woman was given a womb transplant and _ in 2013 where a woman was given a womb transplant and went - in 2013 where a woman was given a womb transplant and went on - in 2013 where a woman was given a womb transplant and went on to i in 2013 where a woman was given a i womb transplant and went on to have the first— womb transplant and went on to have the first baby — womb transplant and went on to have the first baby born _ womb transplant and went on to have the first baby born as _ womb transplant and went on to have the first baby born as a _ womb transplant and went on to have the first baby born as a result - womb transplant and went on to have the first baby born as a result of- womb transplant and went on to have the first baby born as a result of a i the first baby born as a result of a womb— the first baby born as a result of a womb transplant, _ the first baby born as a result of a womb transplant, she _ the first baby born as a result of a womb transplant, she was - the first baby born as a result of a womb transplant, she was given i the first baby born as a result of a i womb transplant, she was given her womb— womb transplant, she was given her womb by— womb transplant, she was given her womb by a _ womb transplant, she was given her womb by a friend _ womb transplant, she was given her womb by a friend but _ womb transplant, she was given her womb by a friend but they— womb transplant, she was given her womb by a friend but they have i womb transplant, she was given her womb by a friend but they have to i womb transplant, she was given herl womb by a friend but they have to be a very— womb by a friend but they have to be a very good _ womb by a friend but they have to be a very good tissue _ womb by a friend but they have to be a very good tissue match _ womb by a friend but they have to be a very good tissue match and - a very good tissue match and normally— a very good tissue match and normally in— a very good tissue match and normally in the _ a very good tissue match and normally in the live - a very good tissue match and normally in the live donor- a very good tissue match and i normally in the live donor cases a very good tissue match and - normally in the live donor cases and most _ normally in the live donor cases and most of— normally in the live donor cases and most of the — normally in the live donor cases and most of the nearly— normally in the live donor cases and most of the nearly 100 _ normally in the live donor cases and most of the nearly 100 transplants i most of the nearly 100 transplants around _ most of the nearly 100 transplants around the — most of the nearly 100 transplants around the world _ most of the nearly 100 transplants around the world have _ most of the nearly 100 transplants around the world have been - most of the nearly 100 transplants around the world have been with l around the world have been with living _ around the world have been with living donors. _ around the world have been with living donors, and _ around the world have been with living donors, and they've - around the world have been with| living donors, and they've mostly been _ living donors, and they've mostly been either— living donors, and they've mostly been either sisters— living donors, and they've mostly been either sisters or— living donors, and they've mostly been either sisters or mothers i living donors, and they've mostly been either sisters or mothers ofi been either sisters or mothers of the recipient _ been either sisters or mothers of the recipient but _ been either sisters or mothers of the recipient but the _ been either sisters or mothers of the recipient but the other- the recipient but the other programme _ the recipient but the other programme will— the recipient but the other programme will be - the recipient but the other programme will be a - the recipient but the other- programme will be a deceased the recipient but the other— programme will be a deceased donor programme — programme will be a deceased donor programme that _ programme will be a deceased donor programme that carries _ programme will be a deceased donor programme that carries with - programme will be a deceased donor programme that carries with it - programme will be a deceased donor programme that carries with it the i programme that carries with it the thing _ programme that carries with it the thing that— programme that carries with it the thing that you _ programme that carries with it the thing that you never _ programme that carries with it the

thing that you never know- programme that carries with it the thing that you never know when i programme that carries with it the . thing that you never know when that will occur _ thing that you never know when that will occur and — thing that you never know when that will occur and the _ thing that you never know when that will occur and the womb _ thing that you never know when that will occur and the womb will- thing that you never know when that will occur and the womb will be - will occur and the womb will be available, — will occur and the womb will be available, so _ will occur and the womb will be available, so the _ will occur and the womb will be available, so the living - will occur and the womb will be available, so the living donor. available, so the living donor programme _ available, so the living donor programme is _ available, so the living donor programme is more - available, so the living donor programme is more easy- available, so the living donor programme is more easy to. available, so the living donor- programme is more easy to schedule in terms _ programme is more easy to schedule in terms of— programme is more easy to schedule in terms of making _ programme is more easy to schedule in terms of making space _ programme is more easy to schedule in terms of making space when - in terms of making space when operating — in terms of making space when operating theatres _ in terms of making space when operating theatres are - in terms of making space when operating theatres are going i in terms of making space when operating theatres are going to in terms of making space when i operating theatres are going to be free _ operating theatres are going to be free in— operating theatres are going to be free. , a, free. in terms of funding, it doesnt free. in terms of funding, it doesn't come _ free. in terms of funding, it doesn't come cheap, - free. in terms of funding, it doesn't come cheap, any i free. in terms of funding, it doesn't come cheap, any ofi free. in terms of funding, it - doesn't come cheap, any of this. should this treatment be available on the nhs? that will be the question and we will have people on both sides of the end i guess you will have people arguing there are other more life—saving priorities that the nhs should be funding. {lit that the nhs should be funding. of course there are ethical questions here and — course there are ethical questions here and there _ course there are ethical questions here and there has _ course there are ethical questions here and there has been - course there are ethical questions. here and there has been resistance in the _ here and there has been resistance in the health— here and there has been resistance in the health service, _ here and there has been resistance in the health service, quite - here and there has been resistance in the health service, quite strongl in the health service, quite strong resistance — in the health service, quite strong resistance in — in the health service, quite strong resistance in some _ in the health service, quite strong resistance in some quarters- in the health service, quite strong resistance in some quarters and l in the health service, quite strong i resistance in some quarters and it's what _ resistance in some quarters and it's what the _ resistance in some quarters and it's what the team _ resistance in some quarters and it's what the team refer _ resistance in some quarters and it's what the team refer to _ resistance in some quarters and it's what the team refer to as _ what the team refer to as institutional— what the team refer to as institutional delays - what the team refer to as institutional delays and l what the team refer to as . institutional delays and they what the team refer to as - institutional delays and they were ready— institutional delays and they were ready to _ institutional delays and they were ready to go — institutional delays and they were ready to go nearly— institutional delays and they were ready to go nearly ten _ institutional delays and they were ready to go nearly ten years - institutional delays and they were ready to go nearly ten years ago i institutional delays and they were . ready to go nearly ten years ago but one thing _ ready to go nearly ten years ago but

one thing and — ready to go nearly ten years ago but one thing and another— ready to go nearly ten years ago but one thing and another means - ready to go nearly ten years ago but one thing and another means they. ready to go nearly ten years ago but . one thing and another means they had all of these _ one thing and another means they had all of these delays _ one thing and another means they had all of these delays and _ one thing and another means they had all of these delays and then _ one thing and another means they had all of these delays and then we - one thing and another means they had all of these delays and then we had i all of these delays and then we had coronavirus — all of these delays and then we had coronavirus so— all of these delays and then we had coronavirus so they _ all of these delays and then we had coronavirus so they watch - all of these delays and then we had coronavirus so they watch all - all of these delays and then we had coronavirus so they watch all of - coronavirus so they watch all of these _ coronavirus so they watch all of these other— coronavirus so they watch all of these other teams _ coronavirus so they watch all of these other teams around - coronavirus so they watch all of these other teams around the i coronavirus so they watch all of - these other teams around the world doing _ these other teams around the world doing this _ these other teams around the world doing this procedure _ these other teams around the world doing this procedure and _ these other teams around the world doing this procedure and have - these other teams around the world i doing this procedure and have really been waiting — doing this procedure and have really been waiting for— doing this procedure and have really been waiting for the _ doing this procedure and have really been waiting for the moment - doing this procedure and have really been waiting for the moment and i been waiting for the moment and there _ been waiting for the moment and there was— been waiting for the moment and there was a — been waiting for the moment and there was a lot _ been waiting for the moment and there was a lot riding _ been waiting for the moment and there was a lot riding on- been waiting for the moment and there was a lot riding on it, - there was a lot riding on it, because _ there was a lot riding on it, because one _ there was a lot riding on it, because one in _ there was a lot riding on it, because one in four- there was a lot riding on it, because one in four of- there was a lot riding on it, because one in four of the. because one in four of the procedures— because one in four of the procedures fails _ because one in four of the procedures fails and - because one in four of the procedures fails and it's . because one in four of the procedures fails and it's a| because one in four of the i procedures fails and it's a lot because one in four of the - procedures fails and it's a lot of surgery— procedures fails and it's a lot of surgery involved, _ procedures fails and it's a lot of surgery involved, lengthy- procedures fails and it's a lot of i surgery involved, lengthy surgery, eight _ surgery involved, lengthy surgery, eight hours — surgery involved, lengthy surgery, eight hours to— surgery involved, lengthy surgery, eight hours to remove _ surgery involved, lengthy surgery, eight hours to remove the - surgery involved, lengthy surgery, eight hours to remove the uterus. surgery involved, lengthy surgery, l eight hours to remove the uterus in nine hours — eight hours to remove the uterus in nine hours to— eight hours to remove the uterus in nine hours to implant _ eight hours to remove the uterus in nine hours to implant it— eight hours to remove the uterus in nine hours to implant it and - eight hours to remove the uterus in nine hours to implant it and they. nine hours to implant it and they are att— nine hours to implant it and they are all relieved, _ nine hours to implant it and they are all relieved, especially- nine hours to implant it and they are all relieved, especially the l nine hours to implant it and they. are all relieved, especially the two women _ are all relieved, especially the two women involved, _ are all relieved, especially the two women involved, but— are all relieved, especially the two women involved, but they're - are all relieved, especially the two women involved, but they're all. women involved, but they're all retieved — women involved, but they're all retieved for _ women involved, but they're all relieved for the _ women involved, but they're all relieved for the future - women involved, but they're all relieved for the future of - women involved, but they're all relieved for the future of the i relieved for the future of the service — relieved for the future of the service that _ relieved for the future of the service that it _ relieved for the future of the service that it was _ relieved for the future of the i service that it was successful. relieved for the future of the - service that it was successful. did ou sa service that it was successful. did you say one _ service that it was successful. did you say one in — service that it was successful. you say one in three or one in service that it was successful.“ you say one in three or one in four fails. ., you say one in three or one in four fails-_ that's _ you say one in three or one in four fails._ that's an - fails. one in four. that's an interesting _ fails. one in four. that's an interesting part _ fails. one in four. that's an interesting part of- fails. one in four. that's an interesting part of the - fails. one in four. that's an - interesting part of the discussion. let me bring in vicky from bishops stortford and we'd love to hear from you this money. hello, vicky. what did you want to share with us on this? i

did you want to share with us on this? ., [15 did you want to share with us on this? ., [13 , .,, [1 this? i am 38 but when i was 23 i had my son _ this? i am 38 but when i was 23 i had my son and _ this? i am 38 but when i was 23 i had my son and i _ this? i am 38 but when i was 23 i had my son and i had _ this? i am 38 but when i was 23 i had my son and i had a _ this? i am 38 but when i was 23 i had my son and i had a cesarean | had my son and i had a cesarean because he did not want to come out, but afterwards my womb would not contract afterward so i was just bleeding out and i had to have a partial hysterectomy so i still have my eggs but i don't have my womb. so they had to take my womb out, so hearing this morning it's nice to think it might not be something i could get but it's nice to think it's something that might help someone in the future.- it's something that might help someone in the future. what did it mean for you _ someone in the future. what did it mean for you on _ someone in the future. what did it mean for you on a psychological. mean for you on a psychological level going through that experience? it's horrible i always wanted a lot of kids and i remember my mum saying to her it was the best day of her life and worst day of her life because some doctors came into my mum and said you've got a major decision. we do the operation or you

lose your daughter's life. fik. so lose your daughter's life. ok. so not having _ lose your daughter's life. ok. so not having a womb, it's horrible. to know that that option has been taken away from me. know that that option has been taken away from me— away from me. yes, indeed. how did ou away from me. yes, indeed. how did you manage — away from me. yes, indeed. how did you manage that _ away from me. yes, indeed. how did you manage that in _ away from me. yes, indeed. how did you manage that in terms _ away from me. yes, indeed. how did you manage that in terms of- away from me. yes, indeed. how did you manage that in terms ofjust - you manage that in terms ofjust getting on with your life, ultimately? i getting on with your life, ultimately?— getting on with your life, ultimatel ? ., ., , , ultimately? i was on antidepressants and i'm ultimately? i was on antidepressants and i'm still— ultimately? i was on antidepressants and i'm still on _ ultimately? i was on antidepressants and i'm still on them, _ ultimately? i was on antidepressants and i'm still on them, to _ ultimately? i was on antidepressants and i'm still on them, to be - ultimately? i was on antidepressants and i'm still on them, to be honest, | and i'm still on them, to be honest, so it's not been an easy road, but it's learning to love my son. if i didn't have him it would be a lot harder so i feel very sorry for the women who were not born with a womb who have never had that option. the fact i was able to have my son has helped a lot. obviously the women who haven't had the opportunity to have a child in the first place, i feel very sorry for them. at least i had the chance to have my son. you have not had the chance to have my son. you have got your _ had the chance to have my son. you have got your boy on your life, which is priceless. and in terms of

this, if you take yourself back those 15 years or so, how do you think you would have felt waking up listening to and hearing the news this morning in terms of what decision—making you might have made. i would be really happy and i know me and my mum would have had a discussion and she would have been like, if this is something we can do, you can have my womb. my mum would have offered that to me straightaway. she would have been happy to do it. and i would have accepted. so it is something we would have gone ahead and done. i would have gone ahead and done. i would have gone ahead and done. i would have definitely looked into it if it was something available when i could have had it done. it is could have had it done. it is amazing _ could have had it done. it is amazing to _ could have had it done. it is amazing to think— could have had it done. it is amazing to think how - could have had it done. it is amazing to think how much the science has progressed in such a short amount of time. we say that about a lot of things in life. let me bring in leah again. just

listening to vicky there, it really kind of hits home that actually this is the kind of technology that would have really have helped her, the kind of procedure that would have helped and i guess you must know a lot —— a lot of women have been through the situation vicky has. yes, it's a devastating situation to be told that your family has to be complete for you are —— before you're ready for it to be finished but is not as uncommon as one might think and it's always a devastating situation when it happens so for those women who have maybe had a child but have had to have a hysterectomy for whatever reason, it offers some hope. hysterectomy for whatever reason, it offers some hope-— hysterectomy for whatever reason, it offers some hope. yeah. vicky, thank ou for offers some hope. yeah. vicky, thank you for sharing _ offers some hope. yeah. vicky, thank you for sharing that _ offers some hope. yeah. vicky, thank you for sharing that with _ offers some hope. yeah. vicky, thank you for sharing that with us. - offers some hope. yeah. vicky, thank you for sharing that with us. take - you for sharing that with us. take care. all the best. lydia is with us as well. hi, lydia. hi. care. all the best. lydia is with us as well. hi, lydia.— as well. hi, lydia. hi, nice to be here. as well. hi, lydia. hi, nice to be here- teller _ as well. hi, lydia. hi, nice to be here. teller shal_ as well. hi, lydia. hi, nice to be here. teller shal story. - as well. hi, lydia. hi, nice to be here. teller shal story. you -

as well. hi, lydia. hi, nice to be here. teller shal story. you had j here. teller shal story. you had our here. teller shal story. you had your womb _ here. teller shal story. you had your womb removed _ here. teller shal story. you had your womb removed after - here. teller shal story. you had your womb removed after you i here. teller shal story. you had i your womb removed after you were diagnosed with cancer. tell us more about it. i diagnosed with cancer. tell us more about it. . . diagnosed with cancer. tell us more about it. ., , ., , about it. i was 24 when i was diagnosed — about it. i was 24 when i was diagnosed with _ about it. i was 24 when i was diagnosed with womb - about it. i was 24 when i was diagnosed with womb cancer| about it. i was 24 when i was - diagnosed with womb cancer which is rare for it to happen that young but there are a few of us out there and it does happen. and the treatment for early—stage womb cancer tends to always include a hysterectomy. i've not met a woman in my situation it hasn't had one and the results are great in terms of the cancer not coming back on the outcomes are very good with a hysterectomy for early—stage womb cancel but when you are premenopausal or you haven't had children or as many as you might like it's a huge thing and when i was young and put in that position i had to really think about how much having children meant to me, whereas before i would have naturally. i was not at the stage i wanted them then but it was put on me in a way where i had to really evaluate what that meant and it meant an awful lot and

losing that ability, you heard from vicky there, that was really powerful and ifeel for her vicky there, that was really powerful and i feel for her but it was also nice to hear someone who really understands. you know, because it can be quite hard to understand for some people just how much it means, but it really was everything at the time. cancer is hard for everybody, but i really was hurting about the fertility more than anything. hurting about the fertility more than anything-— hurting about the fertility more than an hina. ~ . , . ., than anything. what effect it have on our than anything. what effect it have on your life? _ than anything. what effect it have on your life? you _ than anything. what effect it have on your life? you you _ than anything. what effect it have on your life? you you had - than anything. what effect it have on your life? you you had to - than anything. what effect it have on your life? you you had to face | than anything. what effect it have i on your life? you you had to face up to future decisions where you don't know how you would have thought and you don't how to put we would have done that around starting a family, so how did you manage yourself during that period? it so how did you manage yourself during that period?— so how did you manage yourself during that period? it ages you, of course it makes _ during that period? it ages you, of course it makes you _ during that period? it ages you, of course it makes you feel— during that period? it ages you, of course it makes you feel older - during that period? it ages you, of| course it makes you feel older than 24 when i talk to my friends about

it for months and they were so supportive and there was a stage where i was able to decide if i had a hysterectomy or not and that was taken away when my cancer was growing too much for a while that was a decision and it got to the point where a friend said to me you cannot have children if you are dead because that is how much i wanted to prioritise my fist —— fertility over the risk to my life essential when it got down to it so that was hard to navigate and i was 24 and i had to navigate and i was 24 and i had to go through the period of dating and i wasn't with my long—term partner and they were aware that i had had cancer and i did not have a womb and i cannot have children in that way and that is a lot of pressure and awkward conversations you do not want to have, so there is a lot of impact there and now i'm 31 and my friends are starting to have

children and i'm so happy for them but it is really hard and i went through years of own following everyone i know on social media, trying to minimise how much i was exposed to the triggers that upset me again and that's no way to live. you are describing it very well and it's all very understandable what you are saying. were you aware of what was being done in terms of the medical breakthrough? this is not the first worldwide surgery but were you aware what it was like and want to do respond when it heard the transport plea done in this country? i was. sorry, transport plea done in this country? iwas. sorry, my transport plea done in this country? i was. sorry, my dog transport plea done in this country? iwas. sorry, my dog is transport plea done in this country? i was. sorry, my dog is making noises. i was looking at my options because ivf is not covered on the nhs for people who had a hysterectomy or are born without a womb and i find that very unfair and i would have to pay no one else

does. not no one else, but most don't, so i was researching what was available when i came across the charity, so i have been going through the process of trying to get on the trial, having the test, going through ivf to get embryos ready and we have six on ice which is lovely news, but it felt very unbelievable and intangible like you can't really believe it might happen so the fact we did the first one it's been a success and it has worked, i am so pleased that woman and her partner, like so pleased. that makes it more real. that's exciting. i'm trying not to get my hopes up because really i cannot go through the pain of losing it twice but it is still lovely news. of losing it twice but it is still lovely news— of losing it twice but it is still lovely news. and the fact that clearly the — lovely news. and the fact that clearly the charities _ lovely news. and the fact that clearly the charities are - lovely news. and the fact that | clearly the charities are saying there are so many donors potentially coming forward as well.— coming forward as well. yeah. and there are so _ coming forward as well. yeah. and there are so many _ coming forward as well. yeah. and there are so many women - coming forward as well. yeah. and there are so many women in -

coming forward as well. yeah. and there are so many women in this i there are so many women in this situation. it's not the biggest group, the amount of women born without a womb and undeveloped womb are people going for a hysterectomy young but there are still tens of us. and the funding isn't really there and the charity raising money to do this out of basically the goodness of their heart, and the doctors giving their time for free, you know, we are so grateful and thatis you know, we are so grateful and that is amazing. they see how much it means. amazing to outline your situation and your story. i wish you the very best going forward. and who knows? who knows what the future holds, thank you so much for talking to us. she had her womb removed after being diagnosed with cancer but now she says this procedure we are learning about today is giving her real hope. that is what we are asking this morning. call 08085 909 693. text

85058. we will reflect your text. and we will talk to an nhs midwife who will be with us until ten o'clock. it is 931 and it is time to get the news. a 34—year—old woman who was born without a uterus is hoping to begin ivf treatment in the autumn — after surgeons in oxford carried out the uk's first ever womb transplant. she received the womb from her older sister who already has two children. one of the children rescued from a cable car in pakistan has told reporters he thought "it was over for him". eight people were brought down safely last night after wires on the car snapped — leaving it dangling above a ravine for around 14 hours. a public consultation on gun law reforms closes later. it was launched by the government

injune following the mass shooting in plymouth in august 2021. campaigners want better medical checks and higherfees for firearms licences — ministers say public safety is their priority. and the uk's biggest mortgage lender, halifax, says house prices are down on last year. but the bank also said mortgages are taking up more of people's incomes — making home ownership still a stretch for many. that's the news, shourjo sarkar has the sport. in rugby union, the england number eight, billy vunipola, has been banned for three games after being sent off against ireland. the suspension can be reduced by one match if vunipola completes "tackle school." that would mean he returns for england's second world cup match against japan. captain owen farrell will miss both of england's first matches at the tournament with suspension, at the world athletics championship in budapest, great britain has already had interest in the 800m heats this morning. watching for us, has been katharine merry.

katie hodgkinson is the world leader in the women's 800 metres and she went in the first heat this morning in searing heat in budapest. easy as you like, under the magical two minute barrier and qualified for the next round. scotland's jamie riquet is to come shortly on the track. in one hour, deena is back in the heat of 200 metres. and in the men's, the bronze medallist uk record holder from the 100 metres goes in the 200 metres heats as well.— metres heats as well. coverage of the athletics _ metres heats as well. coverage of the athletics continues _ metres heats as well. coverage of the athletics continues on - metres heats as well. coverage of the athletics continues on bbc- metres heats as well. coverage of. the athletics continues on bbc two. rangers manager michael beale has promised to "be extremely positive" when they go away to psv eindhoven next week for the second leg of their champions league play—off tie. the first leg at ibrox finished 2—2 last night.

good morning. thank you for your company. it is coming up to 25 minutes to ten, it is chris warburton. we will return to what we were talking about in terms of the uk's first ever womb transplant in just a moment. after ten o'clock on radio 5 live and bbc sounds, we will talk about gun laws if you want to join us for that. do our gun laws keep us safe? a home office consultation on reforming firearms laws closes tonight. it was launched after a mass shooting in plymouth in august 2021.

jake davison used a legally—held shotgun to kill his mother maxine davison, 51, and four others before shooting himself in the keyham area of the city. a devastating tragedy... and, for those who want the laws tightening, one that shows it is far too easy to get firearms licenses. campaigners are arguing for things like more robust medical checks and greater police powers to seize guns. but the british association for shooting and conservation has called this consultation the most important on firearms ownership in 35 years. it says some of the proposed reforms are harmful and need to be opposed. what do you think? do our gun laws make you feel safe — or do they need tightening? the home office says britain has "some of the toughest gun laws in the world" — do you agree?

are you one of the around 600,000 people with a legal firearms licence in the uk? what is your experience of the application and vetting procedure? do our gun laws keep us safe? yes, and let's really return to the first question we are asking this morning, the uk's first womb transplant, does it offer hope for you? call 08085 909 693. text 85058.

they are calling it the dawn of a new age infertility treatment. surgeons in oxford, the first womb transplant, a 54—year—old women donated her womb for her 40—year—old sister. it poses lots of questions around funding, we talked about that with fergus walsh. this one was paid for by a charity, it is not cheap, whether it would be in future funding with the nhs. an nhs midwife, the author of hard rouge, good morning. a couple of questions, new medical developments, it will be argued everyone has a right to this and a further unfunded expense will fall on the nhs. what funding will be cut if this arises? that is part of the debate, on social media this morning, plenty of people are bringing up a similar point. another listener said being someone who had a failed ivf and knows the dreadful

consequences of not having children, i am all for this procedure, anything to stop this headache can only be a good thing. this one, which is preferable? pregnancy via uterine transplant with a sister as the donor or the sister acting as a surrogate? is there a simple answer to that question, i wonder. preferable is loose and nebulous term. if we are talking about medical risk, clinical risk, then there is obviously less risk for the recipient with surrogacy because she is not receiving anything, she is giving an embryo to be implanted in someone else. but for the surrogate parent, it is absolutely not without risk. pregnancy and birth are some of the most interesting is the person can undertake. to say, it

will be easierfor the person can undertake. to say, it will be easier for the other person to carry a baby, and have it in her body and deliver it however that happens, to say that is potentially unproblematic or easy, is to underestimate what can go wrong and what can be the long—term consequences of any pregnancy. let’s consequences of any pregnancy. let's no to consequences of any pregnancy. let's go to carla- _ consequences of any pregnancy. let's go to carla. thank _ consequences of any pregnancy. let's go to carla. thank you _ consequences of any pregnancy. let's go to carla. thank you for getting in touch. and let's talk to eva in basildon. good morning. tell us about your situation. tell us about your diagnosis. you were born with the diagnosis, with a particular condition around this area. tell us about it. i condition around this area. tell us about it. . . condition around this area. tell us about it. ., , ,., ., condition around this area. tell us about it. ., _ ., about it. i was born with a syndrome which means — about it. i was born with a syndrome which means i _ about it. i was born with a syndrome which means i was _ about it. i was born with a syndrome which means i was born _ about it. i was born with a syndrome which means i was born without - about it. i was born with a syndrome which means i was born without a i which means i was born without a womb. yes. i knewl

which means i was born without a womb. yes. i knew i could not have children. i obviously visited doctors in london and my mother, she was one of the managers in a fertility clinic. as soon as i was 20, she made me go through all the ivf treatment. i had three rounds of ivf, i have got 19 eggs, and with my partner i've got seven embryos. yes, we then obviously and about 2018, got approached by the womb transplant team because i had always followed them since i found out my diagnosis. they got in touch with me, i was at centre park, when i got the e—mail, would you come down? we had all the psychic test done, we

were ready to go, they asked if i had anyone who would be a donor for me, my auntie said she would do it. she was a match as well with the blood type. it was already set to 90, blood type. it was already set to go, and just before, one week after covid—19 hit, it got put on hold, and after that, we did not know how long covid—19 was going to be around for, so we chose to go down the surrogacy route at my best friend offered to be a surrogate for us. we put two embryos back, they both took, and one of them got diagnosed at 20 weeks that it had a severe

disability. they were both boys. it was spina bifida and i can't see the word, and the professor, we went to london, and the professor said it's probably a medical termination. because the baby is getting worse. it took a long time to come to the decision. we had to wait 30 weeks to allow the other baby to grow. before any termination could happen. obviously, with my condition, i would never want that anyway. he was so severely disabled, that's what they recommended. now, we have one

beautiful baby who was born in december. i was approached again by the womb transplant when my baby was eight weeks old, i was no longer eligible. so that got stopped because i have but one child. 50 eligible. so that got stopped because i have but one child. so you are further— because i have but one child. so you are further down _ because i have but one child. so you are further down the _ because i have but one child. so you are further down the priority - because i have but one child. so you are further down the priority list. i are further down the priority list. it probably will not happen in that respect. how is your baby getting on now? are you doing well as a family? my now? are you doing well as a family? my baby is fine, he is loving life. you must look back on that, that is years you took us through in a few minutes. obviously, with the laws of your other baby, that must have been so much to have gone through. —— the

loss of your baby. it so much to have gone through. -- the loss of your baby-— loss of your baby. it put a lot of ressure loss of your baby. it put a lot of pressure on _ loss of your baby. it put a lot of pressure on my _ loss of your baby. it put a lot of pressure on my partner - loss of your baby. it put a lot of pressure on my partner and i loss of your baby. it put a lot of| pressure on my partner and me, loss of your baby. it put a lot of- pressure on my partner and me, our relationship. we obviously went through a phase when we were not together because when you hear the amount of risk that comes with a womb transplant, it is daunting for them as well. everything is ok now. it was very traumatic, all of it was dramatic. even the surrogate, it is big for them as well. it is dramatic. even the surrogate, it is big for them as well.— big for them as well. it is huge for them. big for them as well. it is huge for them- she — big for them as well. it is huge for them. she had, _ big for them as well. it is huge for them. she had, i— big for them as well. it is huge for them. she had, i don't _ big for them as well. it is huge for them. she had, i don't how- big for them as well. it is huge for them. she had, i don't how to i them. she had, i don't how to exlain them. she had, i don't how to explain it. _ them. she had, i don't how to explain it. it _ them. she had, i don't how to explain it, it was _ them. she had, i don't how to explain it, it was traumatic i them. she had, i don't how toj explain it, it was traumatic for them. she had, i don't how to i explain it, it was traumatic for her as well, with the baby being disabled and the procedure to go through. disabled and the procedure to go throu~h. ~ ., i. disabled and the procedure to go throu:h.~ ., i. disabled and the procedure to go throu~h. ~ . ., disabled and the procedure to go. through-_ we through. what you say it now? we don't talk about _ through. what you say it now? we don't talk about it. _ through. what you say it now? we don't talk about it. not _ through. what you say it now? we

don't talk about it. not really. i i don't talk about it. not really. i don't talk about it. not really. i do not feel like i have processed it yet. although we had the funeral for the baby, you are given another baby and you have to look after them. it is very hard. it and you have to look after them. it is very hard-— is very hard. it must be a very challenging — is very hard. it must be a very challenging psychological i is very hard. it must be a very i challenging psychological situation. talking about psychology, giving you were born with the condition, you were born with the condition, you were born with the condition, you were born without a womb in the first place, what was that like in terms of what people were talking to you about as you were growing up? you are not going to understand it at a young age. when do you remember first understanding the condition and what the implications were for you? do you remember trying to understand and get to grips with it? no i was about 14,.i understand and get to grips with it? no i was about 14,.— understand and get to grips with it? no i was about 14,. i have never had eriods no i was about 14,. i have never had periods are — no i was about 14,. i have never had periods are anything _ no i was about 14,. i have never had periods are anything like _ no i was about 14,. i have never had periods are anything like that. i i periods are anything like that. i had no idea, my mother and my auntie

burst out crying. i have no idea what they were going on about. ever since i was 16, 16 or 17, i started to understand. ever since that day, i started saving money for surrogacy because i knew that was the route i had to go down. let's face it, it is very expensive. had to go down. let's face it, it is very “pensive-— very expensive. you are putting money away — very expensive. you are putting money away all _ very expensive. you are putting money away all the _ very expensive. you are putting money away all the time? i very expensive. you are putting money away all the time? what very expensive. you are putting i money away all the time? what were you going without as you were growing up that other people were taking for granted in that respect? i knew i could not have a child, and that for me is always what i've always wanted. both my parents are together. i am very family oriented. and then my sister had them. when my sisterfirst and then my sister had them. when my sister first told and then my sister had them. when my sisterfirst told me and then my sister had them. when my sister first told me she was having a baby i locked myself in the bathroom. it took me 20 minutes before i could come down and say

congratulations. i before i could come down and say congratulations.— congratulations. i imagine that is common in _ congratulations. i imagine that is common in families _ congratulations. i imagine that is common in families where i congratulations. i imagine that is| common in families where people congratulations. i imagine that is i common in families where people are having fertility problems, struggling to conceive, and a relative, it's a piece of cake, it must be difficult emotionally, you're explain that very well. what do you make of this news this morning about the first ever womb transplant in this country? what do you think you would have thought if you think you would have thought if you are seeing less back in 2018 when you started going down this road? i when you started going down this road? . when you started going down this road? , ., road? i feel gutted it is not me. but i am road? i feel gutted it is not me. but i am over— road? i feel gutted it is not me. but i am over the _ road? i feel gutted it is not me. but i am over the moon - road? i feel gutted it is not me. but i am over the moon it i road? i feel gutted it is not me. but i am over the moon it is i road? i feel gutted it is not me. i but i am over the moon it is going to give other women like myself and some of the other —— the opportunity to do it themselves. you do not have the added stress of lawyers and rules and regulations as you do during the surrogacy process.

absolutely. you have been through a horrendous situation, but you have got your little boy. i hope you have had a good summer as a family. thank you so much for sharing that with us. it is an incredible story. thank you very much. all the best. even in basildon. an amazing story.- you very much. all the best. even in basildon. an amazing story. that's a tremendous — basildon. an amazing story. that's a tremendous story, _ basildon. an amazing story. that's a tremendous story, i _ basildon. an amazing story. that's a tremendous story, i commend i basildon. an amazing story. that's a tremendous story, i commend her i basildon. an amazing story. that's a. tremendous story, i commend her for tremendous story, i commend herfor sharing the story when she has not been able to reflect on it or talk about those who are nearest and dearest. what is really remarkable about the programme this morning, people hear this news about the womb transplant and think it is obscure, really difficult to find women who can benefit from this, who is born without a womb? that is really unusual, but already on the programme this morning we have heard from two women, one who had a

hysterectomy, and one who was born without a uterus who would have loved to have been involved in a programme like this. this is not niche surgery that potentially could affect a tiny number of families. this could be a real watershed moment in fertility treatment. there will be people who say you were born without a uterus, you do not have a uterus, you can adopt, lots of children need families, that is absolutely true, but we have moved past that point in society where we say that to infertile couples who are seeking ivf or other forms of fertility treatment. we do notjust say, well, that is your situation and you are not meant to have children so go and adopt. we acknowledge as a society that women and families deserve choices. knowing that the uterus transplant is potentially going to be a possibility for families is potentially going to be a possibility forfamilies in is potentially going to be a possibility for families in this country, it adds to the choice and this programme shows how many people

would potentially make that choice. you are right, hearing its urgency it is the dawn of a new age, but to hear from it is the dawn of a new age, but to hearfrom people it is the dawn of a new age, but to hear from people and to speak to people who say this would have made the world of difference to me and to my partner and to our lives, is something entirely different. let's talk to another caller,. what are you thinking as you hear the stories this morning? i you thinking as you hear the stories this morning?— this morning? i struggled with my own fertility _ this morning? i struggled with my own fertility because _ this morning? i struggled with my own fertility because of— this morning? i struggled with my own fertility because of problems| own fertility because of problems with my— own fertility because of problems with my ovaries when i was younger, i with my ovaries when i was younger, i lost _ with my ovaries when i was younger, i lost weight — with my ovaries when i was younger, i lost weight and got pregnant naturally, i have had two children. if i naturally, i have had two children. if i could _ naturally, i have had two children. if i could donate my womb that i am not going _ if i could donate my womb that i am not going to — if i could donate my womb that i am not going to use again to someone who would — not going to use again to someone who would really benefit from it, the mental health anguish that you

io the mental health anguish that you go through, i know i certainly did, it's go through, i know i certainly did, its awful— go through, i know i certainly did, it's awful and if i could make that easier, _ it's awful and if i could make that easier, for— it's awful and if i could make that easier, for someone else, they deserve — easier, for someone else, they deserve an— easier, for someone else, they deserve an opportunity to be a mother, — deserve an opportunity to be a mother, i_ deserve an opportunity to be a mother, i would do it.- deserve an opportunity to be a mother, i would do it. have you soken mother, i would do it. have you spoken to _ mother, i would do it. have you spoken to womb _ mother, i would do it. have you spoken to womb transplant i mother, i would do it. have you spoken to womb transplant uk, | mother, i would do it. have you i spoken to womb transplant uk, they said more than 500 women had contacted the charity to take part in the programme. that is before most people have heard the news today. i most people have heard the news toda . ., , . most people have heard the news toda. ., , ., ., most people have heard the news toda. ., , ., , today. i only heard about it this morninu. today. i only heard about it this morning. thank _ today. i only heard about it this morning. thank you _ today. i only heard about it this morning. thank you very i today. i only heard about it this morning. thank you very much | today. i only heard about it this i morning. thank you very much for that. morning. thank you very much for that- amy — morning. thank you very much for that- amy is _ morning. thank you very much for that. amy is with _ morning. thank you very much for that. amy is with us, _ morning. thank you very much for that. amy is with us, she - morning. thank you very much for that. amy is with us, she is i morning. thank you very much for that. amy is with us, she is a i that. amy is with us, she is a consultant gynaecology oncology surgeon at royal preston hospital. good morning. ground—breaking, it's amazing. the medical side of it is one thing, what they are able to do, and the breaking down of science barriers, and on the other side, we

are getting incredible human stories this morning and what it could mean for people. this morning and what it could mean for --eole. , ., _ this morning and what it could mean for --eole. . ., _ , ., ., for people. obviously, my role as a cancer surgeon _ for people. obviously, my role as a cancer surgeon is _ for people. obviously, my role as a cancer surgeon is to _ for people. obviously, my role as a cancer surgeon is to remove - for people. obviously, my role as a | cancer surgeon is to remove cancer, and it means removing people's uterus, in very young women, i take away their opportunity to carry a pregnancy. so this case that has been reported this morning, it will give hope to some people that it is not cut and dry that they will never ever be able to carry a pregnancy. i am sure a lot of young callers, there has been a lot of chat about how there are other ways to be a mother, and that will always be the case, but for some women, it might not be an option to go down the surrogacy route or the adoption rate for whatever reason, so this gives people another option, hopefully, that they can consider. thea;r

people another option, hopefully, that they can consider.— people another option, hopefully, that they can consider. they must be very difficult — that they can consider. they must be very difficult conversations _ that they can consider. they must be very difficult conversations you i very difficult conversations you have with these patients. what are the typical questions and conversations? the typical concerns, worries, psychological concerns that those women have?— those women have? being told you have cancer— those women have? being told you have cancer will _ those women have? being told you have cancer will be _ those women have? being told you have cancer will be devastating i those women have? being told you have cancer will be devastating for| have cancer will be devastating for anyone, and when you are a young person, it has all kinds of implications for everyone, when you are young, and the fact it could alter your life forever and the opportunities you may be able to undertake in your life will be devastating. initially, ithink everyone focuses on the here and now, i must get this cancer treated, otherwise i might die. but what otherwise i might die. but what other options do i have? do you really have to do this? it is about working with individuals to reach the right treatment for them. one, i

suppose in any case, the decision you are making is going to put you on a lengthy road of one form or another. . on a lengthy road of one form or another. , .. , ., another. even in this case, we are not another. even in this case, we are rrot talking — another. even in this case, we are not talking about _ another. even in this case, we are not talking about something i another. even in this case, we are not talking about something that l another. even in this case, we are| not talking about something that is straightforward or easy.— straightforward or easy. definitely not. i read the _ straightforward or easy. definitely not. i read the paper _ straightforward or easy. definitely not. i read the paper that - straightforward or easy. definitely not. i read the paper that is i straightforward or easy. definitely not. i read the paper that is in - straightforward or easy. definitely not. i read the paper that is in the british journal after the news reported this morning, 17 hour surgeries, lots of surgeons operating on them, and all of the preoperative pathway that both ladies will have gone through, the medication, the preoperative and post—operative follow—up. it is a huge undertaking for anyone. it will not be possible for every woman who has a struggle conceiving because of the lack of a uterus for whatever reason that may be. yes, it is a

culmination of, i think they have been working for 25 years. to get to this point. it is a huge amount of work that has gone into this what seems to be currently very successful procedure. both ladies are doing very well. that successful procedure. both ladies are doing very well.— successful procedure. both ladies are doing very well. that is what we have been told. _ are doing very well. that is what we have been told. let's _ are doing very well. that is what we have been told. let's talk _ are doing very well. that is what we have been told. let's talk to - are doing very well. that is what we have been told. let's talk to the - have been told. let's talk to the lead consultant for reproductive medicine services at st george's university hospital foundation trust. good morning to you, professor. thank you forjoining us. we are talking about hope. some people have got in touch saying if only this had been around when i was going through the difficulties that i was facing. there were other people waking up this morning and hearing that and thinking it could potentially apply to me. what do you see in terms of the number of people this could benefit in the near future? it

this could benefit in the near future? , . m this could benefit in the near future? , . .. ~ future? it is a huge achievement. a landmark moment _ future? it is a huge achievement. a landmark moment in _ future? it is a huge achievement. a landmark moment in the _ future? it is a huge achievement. a landmark moment in the uk - future? it is a huge achievement. a landmark moment in the uk to - future? it is a huge achievement. a| landmark moment in the uk to help women who have been born without a womb and as my oncology colleague said just now, for those who have their womb removed as part of cancer treatment. this is a huge moment to celebrate medical success, as we know, more than 90 have been done worldwide and over 50 babies have been born in safety, has been established, and the protocol to monitor and follow—up, donors, recipients and the offspring. we need to know that there is a monitoring taking place. when it comes to is this going to be a

routine? i do not think so. the hope is there for those women, those who have got serious womb problems for fertility. we need to look at the two sides of it. each case will be assessed on a case—by—case basis. it is really heartening to hear these stories on your programme. i have been listening to patients who have shared their stories which are incredible. we have to look at the funding side of it as well.- funding side of it as well. there are a lot of _ funding side of it as well. there are a lot of questions _ funding side of it as well. there are a lot of questions there, a l are a lot of questions there, a whole another hour to discuss funding and whether it would be routinely funded on the nhs. thank you very much, i would like to end by speaking to beth and in bridgend.

what have you been thinking as you have followed this debate? j liaise have followed this debate? i have had endometriosis _ have followed this debate? i have had endometriosis from - have followed this debate? i have had endometriosis from the - have followed this debate? i have had endometriosis from the age l have followed this debate? i have | had endometriosis from the age of 13, i had no make the right person i3, i had no make the right person to have a child with and i wanted to be responsible and it would have been nice to meet someone to have a child with, that did not happen, i took a different career path and i would love to donate my womb and make someone else happy. that would be really important to me. it can affect your mental health. i think you get up and get on with it basically. but i think it's important, it's important to donate my womb and let someone else have happiness. that would be good. you come into this world to do good for

other people, that would be a massive opportunity for me to make someone happy. massive opportunity for me to make someone happy-— massive opportunity for me to make someone happy. it's time to say goodbye to viewers on bbc news and bbc 2. we're continuing this conversation on 5 live.

live from london. this is bbc news. andrew tate prosecution files reveal graphic claims of coercion ahead of his trial. zimbabweans go to the polls, after a campaign dominated by soaring inflation it wishes to be the first country to reach moon's south pole. and surgeons carry out the first womb transplant in the uk she is doing really well and has started her menstrual periods which means her prospects of having a baby are very high. bbc news has seen graphic evidence compiled by prosecutors in romania alleging that the social media personality, andrew tate, coerced women into sexual acts.

the case file also includes claims of sexual violence