winner. m this onl had winner. this onl had 12,000 viewers this only had 12,000 viewers compared to 25,000 viewers when he went to the debate last election. when he is not there, viewers tune. when you look at the numbers, he was a winner but also the content of the debate, he was the over presence in the room even though he was not there. everybody�*s talking about it. people on the stage were mimicking him. he is the centre of gravity in the republican party, there is no denying that. . , party, there is no denying that. ., , that. he was called the elephant _ that. he was called the elephant not _ that. he was called the elephant not in - that. he was called the elephant not in the - that. he was called the i elephant not in the room. that. he was called the - elephant not in the room. how do you explain that, how does he have such a stronghold in the party even when he's not taking part in the debate? sorry about that. i have to

learn _ sorry about that. i have to learn to _ sorry about that. i have to learn to work the mute button. we have — learn to work the mute button. we have all been there. at learn to work the mute button. we have all been there.- we have all been there. at this oint, we have all been there. at this point. after _ we have all been there. at this point, after eight _ we have all been there. at this point, after eight years - we have all been there. at this point, after eight years of - point, after eight years of donald _ point, after eight years of donald trump being under the national— donald trump being under the national scene, running for president, being president, running _ president, being president, running for president again, it looks— running for president again, it looks like _ running for president again, it looks like yours and the rest of the — looks like yours and the rest of the national and international media needs to look— international media needs to look inward. donald trump knows he does _ look inward. donald trump knows he does not have to go anywhere except _ he does not have to go anywhere except where he wants to go, like on — except where he wants to go, like on the show, the interview and what — like on the show, the interview and what he wanted to say. even though _ and what he wanted to say. even though he — and what he wanted to say. even though he was not on the bbc or any other— though he was not on the bbc or any other media outlet they covered _ any other media outlet they covered every word he said from tucker _ covered every word he said from tucker carlson show. wherever he goes — tucker carlson show. wherever he goes he can get attention and coverage and what we saw last night—

and coverage and what we saw last night was proving where the republican presidential candidates think the republican party— candidates think the republican party is — candidates think the republican party is. that debate, for a distant _ party is. that debate, for a distant second place in the primary— distant second place in the primary and caucus process, was a circus — primary and caucus process, was a circus the _ primary and caucus process, was a circus. the moderators lost controk _ a circus. the moderators lost controk it _ a circus. the moderators lost control. it was embarrassing as a republican but it is where these — a republican but it is where these candidates think they have — these candidates think they have to _ these candidates think they have to be because donald trump behaves _ have to be because donald trump behaves that way and you all cover — behaves that way and you all cover him, every single word he says. _ cover him, every single word he says. no— cover him, every single word he says, no matter where he's. as ou says, no matter where he's. as you were _ says, no matter where he's. is you were speaking, we had a mug shot was taken of the former president and maybe even to underline your point, once that is provided to us, we will be showing it as well, as we have shown that the mugshots of other defenders. at the moment we are looking at the former president's plane about to take off back to newjersey. brian, we saw the former president surrendering and being built. what is the impact on him and

of course this is the fourth indictment but what is your sense of how it is impacting him? , ., _ , sense of how it is impacting him? , ., _ sense of how it is impacting him? , him? obviously, it is on his mind. him? obviously, it is on his mind- he — him? obviously, it is on his mind. he is _ him? obviously, it is on his mind. he is on _ him? obviously, it is on his mind. he is on a _ him? obviously, it is on his mind. he is on a plane, - him? obviously, it is on his mind. he is on a plane, it. him? obviously, it is on his| mind. he is on a plane, it is him? obviously, it is on his l mind. he is on a plane, it is a long flight but you have to keepin long flight but you have to keep in mind, he has been doing this, he has been under the assault for the better part of eight years so i don't want to say his youth were but it does not have the same numbing effect. being handcuffed rings you back to sense the reality and that would be the first time the former president has beenin time the former president has been in handcuffs or even submitted to a mug shot. he was told that he was going to go to jail but no—one laid a finger on him. he has been battle tested in controversy but this is just another thursday at this point. isjust another thursday at this point-— isjust another thursday at this point. isjust another thursday at this oint. �* ., ., ., this point. but to follow up on that, as this point. but to follow up on that. as we — this point. but to follow up on that, as we see _ this point. but to follow up on that, as we see the _

this point. but to follow up on that, as we see the plane - this point. but to follow up on i that, as we see the plane going down the runway, is that still the sense after four indictments on the sense afterfour indictments on criminal the sense after four indictments on criminal charges and a gruelling election campaign schedule, are people in his inner circle saying he is worried?— in his inner circle saying he is worried? , , is worried? the polling numbers if they showed _ is worried? the polling numbers if they showed he _ is worried? the polling numbers if they showed he was _ is worried? the polling numbers if they showed he was dropping | if they showed he was dropping it would be more concerning. i hate to compare polling to the real world of things but i think he can turn those numbers and people see these prosecution, the da is going too far and he looks at the datapoint of the prosecution, smith at some point is now down to the 50s. he has been tested, he is the best executive producer of television, the images you are seeing, the way you are seeing them the way he wants you to see them. it is

not like he's not ready this fight. he has the resources, nearly unlimited resources to take on federal government. that is an advantage. we will see where it land. sure, it is concerning but this is not the first time, it is the fourth time, he has been under investigation for nearly seven years, what is another year? brisbane davis, coming back to you, this indictment in georgia is one of the largest. —— congressmen davis. do you think the impact on the former president, the fact he seems to get stronger, is it going too far to bring this indictment against him?— far to bring this indictment against him? look, i do not know the — against him? look, i do not know the details _ against him? look, i do not know the details of - against him? look, i do not know the details of the - know the details of the indictment, the details of the entire — indictment, the details of the entire case but president trump is going — entire case but president trump is going to — entire case but president trump is going to be able to have a chance — is going to be able to have a chance to _ is going to be able to have a chance to fight. i do not know if the — chance to fight. i do not know if the 19— chance to fight. i do not know if the 19 others who were

indicted, because they went along with his crazy idea that somehow votes could be found in georgia, — somehow votes could be found in georgia, and they are not getting _ georgia, and they are not getting their legal fees paid lry getting their legal fees paid by donors, by president trump and his— by donors, by president trump and his team, through those same — and his team, through those same donors. i would be very worried — same donors. i would be very worried if— same donors. i would be very worried it i_ same donors. i would be very worried if i was president trump _ worried if i was president trump by not helping them out. and wondering what are they going — and wondering what are they going to _ and wondering what are they going to say? how are they going — going to say? how are they going to _ going to say? how are they going to implicate him? because prosecutors are looking to take down _ prosecutors are looking to take down the — prosecutors are looking to take down the president. they are not looking to take down mike roman— not looking to take down mike roman or people no—one knows. they're _ roman or people no—one knows. they're looking to take down the president and those individual indicted with the president of worried about whether or not they will be able — whether or not they will be able to _ whether or not they will be able to pay for their kids or grandkids's college. i worry about— grandkids's college. i worry about what kind of impact that may have _ about what kind of impact that may have on this case. bryant, do ou may have on this case. bryant, do you think — may have on this case. bryant, do you think that _ may have on this case. bryant, do you think that is _ may have on this case. bryant, do you think that is something | do you think that is something i worried about?—

i worried about? yes, 100%. mark meadows, _ i worried about? yes, 10096. - mark meadows, communications between him and the prosecutors, a recent flip harrison floyd, now changing his story with respect to obstruction ofjustice charges. he has little control over that. the most of control is to flow a lot of money. but that is, if there is an achilles to the overall strategy is the sort of human response of other people who are not used to this kind of scrutiny, attention, vitriol and targeting that is happening. hi vitriol and targeting that is happening-— vitriol and targeting that is haueninu. ., , happening. if that is the case, what do you — happening. if that is the case, what do you know _ happening. if that is the case, what do you know about - happening. if that is the case, what do you know about what| happening. if that is the case, i what do you know about what the legal strategy is from the trump team?— legal strategy is from the trump team? legal strategy is from the trum team? , , ., trump team? they will tell you it is the truth. _ trump team? they will tell you it is the truth. each _ trump team? they will tell you it is the truth. each case - trump team? they will tell you it is the truth. each case is - it is the truth. each case is different. 0bviously, it is the truth. each case is different. obviously, the new york case is different to the fulton county case but, listen,

they will do it over the airways. he is shaping the with his tweets, if you can get this moved to the federal jurisdiction, they will have a much more favourablejury jurisdiction, they will have a much more favourable jury pool. if you look at statistics your odds are better than other primarily black cherry and fulton county. 0ther defendant frankly did not sign up to this. is, frankly did not sign up to this. �* , . frankly did not sign up to this. . , . ., frankly did not sign up to this. m . ., ., ., ., this. a piece of information cominu this. a piece of information coming into _ this. a piece of information coming into us _ this. a piece of information coming into us from - this. a piece of information coming into us from a - this. a piece of information coming into us from a cbsl this. a piece of information - coming into us from a cbs news, former president trump is working with a local bonding company in georgia to cover his $200,000 bail. charles shaw the ceo of the company, has assisted, trump in posting bail and that will be posted today and that will be posted today and leah den, the bonding agent

confirmed that this was arranged earlier this week remotely. that is coming in from cbs news. congressmen, listening to what brian was saying, what do you anticipate seeing from the former president going forward. we have seen the four indictments, the surrender and now we're looking ahead after the first debate to a campaign schedule. what do you think will see from the former president? he what do you think will see from the former president?— the former president? he will air his references _ the former president? he will air his references to - the former president? he will air his references to the - air his references to the pebble. _ air his references to the people, and his fault numbers are likely— people, and his fault numbers are likely to go up, especially after— are likely to go up, especially after the _ are likely to go up, especially after the performance last night _ after the performance last night during the republican debate of those who are far behind _ debate of those who are far behind him. iagree debate of those who are far behind him. i agree with brian that when— behind him. i agree with brian that when you look at some of the folks — that when you look at some of the folks that have been charged with him, the trump tearn — charged with him, the trump team should be worried and the person— team should be worried and the person that should be most worried _ person that should be most worried about is the person

that— worried about is the person that report are saying they are most — that report are saying they are most worried about and that is mark— most worried about and that is mark meadows. i served with mark— mark meadows. i served with mark meadows. i served with mark meadows and wait with him when _ mark meadows and wait with him when he — mark meadows and wait with him when he was chief of staff and his sociopathic narcissus and he will— his sociopathic narcissus and he will save himself regardless of who — he will save himself regardless of who have who is on his way. what _ of who have who is on his way. what information do you think you might give to harm the former president?- you might give to harm the former president? you would have to ask — former president? you would have to ask the _ former president? you would have to ask the prosecutors l former president? you would | have to ask the prosecutors at all levels _ have to ask the prosecutors at all levels. the smith, be it fani — all levels. the smith, be it fani willis or anyone else. i think— fani willis or anyone else. i think we _ fani willis or anyone else. i think we will find out once these _ think we will find out once these cases again. is think we will find out once these cases again.- these cases again. is this something _ these cases again. is this something of _ these cases again. is this something of particular l something of particular concern, mark meadows, his former chief of staff? 0bviously, he has a lot of information but congressmen is right, this is a supreme narcissist. he has a record of lying to everybody so even if market flips, he will not be

the most credible witness. —— mark meadows. you will have most likely another case of him lying and this man isjust a pathological liar at a level we have not seen and you are right, he will protect himself. mark meadows has a credibility issue. they will bring in his peers from congress and they will tell you he was a liar. his administration, they will call him a liar as well. they are all going to call him a liar so mark meadows has a problem with the ability but you still have to worry about him. ~ you still have to worry about him. . ., , ., him. we saw images of the former president's - him. we saw images of the former president's plane i him. we saw images of the i former president's plane taking off, leaving atlanta. congressmen, what bryantjust congressmen, what bryant just said congressmen, what bryantjust said about the credibility issue. is that something difficult for prosecutors to deal with?— difficult for prosecutors to

deal with? ~ ,,., , deal with? absolutely it will be. but the _ deal with? absolutely it will be. but the problem - deal with? absolutely it will be. but the problem is, i be. but the problem is, president trump has not been of 0atley— president trump has not been of 0atley honours in what he has said. — 0atley honours in what he has said. in— 0atley honours in what he has said. in his _ 0atley honours in what he has said, in his actions throughout his time — said, in his actions throughout his time as _ said, in his actions throughout his time as president and afterwards. —— overtly. the prosecution does not like mark meadows. they want to believe mark— meadows. they want to believe mark meadows and those who give them _ mark meadows and those who give them information because they want _ them information because they want to— them information because they want to take down president trump — want to take down president trump and make sure he's not president— trump and make sure he's not president ever again so we will see who — president ever again so we will see who wins the battle of credibility and the end i think prosecutors at all levels have thrown — prosecutors at all levels have thrown in _ prosecutors at all levels have thrown in with mark meadows, the sociopathic narcissist, we will see — the sociopathic narcissist, we will see how it turns out. it would _ will see how it turns out. it would be _ will see how it turns out. it would be entertaining at least. we're — would be entertaining at least. we're still seeing pictures of the former president's plane. looking at those pictures, i would like to bring former democratic stephanie murphy. she sat in the house of

representative as well. congressmen murphy great to have your back on bbc news. webb is speaking about the ins and outs of this case in georgia and as you served on the january six committee, i want to ask you what role of the investigation played in the conclusions you came to on the committee? let conclusions you came to on the committee?— committee? let me 'ust say it is aood committee? let me 'ust say it is good to h committee? let me 'ust say it is good to be _ committee? let me 'ust say it is good to be back i committee? let me just say it is good to be back with - committee? let me just say it is good to be back with you i is good to be back with you with the rodney, and brian and rodney, i hope you did not refer to me in the same way as you did your previous colic as a psychopathic narcissist but it is great to be here with you all. in all seriousness, georgia was just all. in all seriousness, georgia wasjust a all. in all seriousness, georgia was just a number of targeted key states that the former president sought to overturn the election, the outcome of the election in those states, georgia, arizona, pennsylvania, wisconsin, mexico etc. georgia has a da has decided to prosecute this. ——

has a da who has decided to prosecute this. this is one part of an overall scheme that included pressuring federal officials at the department of justice, his own vice president as well said election officials so georgia isjust as well said election officials so georgia is just one as well said election officials so georgia isjust one piece as well said election officials so georgia is just one piece of the overall effort in the run—up to january 6th to change election. run-up to january 6th to change election. . , run-up to january 6th to change election. ._ ,f~ election. the way the db went about this. — election. the way the db went about this, calling _ election. the way the db went about this, calling it _ election. the way the db went about this, calling it a - about this, calling it a criminal conspiracy, do you agree with the charges she has brought? l agree with the charges she has brou:ht? ., ., .,, agree with the charges she has brouuht? ., ., ., , ., ., brought? i am not as familiar with the georgia _ brought? i am not as familiar with the georgia rico - brought? i am not as familiarj with the georgia rico statute and i trust she brought the charges she thought she has the evidence and what i do want to make a point about is that, while the former president and his allies keep saying this is a party or other politician,

powerful people prosecuting him, the reality is, in georgia as in new york, florida and dc, he was indicted because of the prosecutors presented evidence to grand jurors composed of average americans who are called upon do that civic duty and those average americans found probable cause that a crime was committed so he's painting it differently to the way it actually works in our legal system. and if he decides to go to trial, he can put the burden of proof on the prosecutors to convince a jury of his peers, again, average americans, they have to convince them beyond a reasonable doubt that he committed a crime and i think our legal system is working as it should. brian, do you agree the legal system is working as it should? it is