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tv   Newsnight  BBC News  August 25, 2023 10:30pm-11:11pm BST

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tornado and from this picture is a tornado and from this picture it looks like this one in fife did touch down and we did see a tornado. it was the showers and storms that gave rise to those funnel clouds, particularly across eastern, central and southern parts of scotland but as you can see from this picture, we have had showers and thunderstorms elsewhere and some of those are still rattling around right now. i think most of the thunderstorms will ease in intensity overnight but we will continue to see some showers here and there, some clear spells as well but actually quite a fresh night, 7—ii . tomorrow, at the start of the weekend, a mix of sunshine and showers but as the weekend goes on i think the showers will lose some of their intensity. still plenty around on saturday, sunny spells and scatter shout in england and wales, heavy infantry in central and wales, heavy infantry in central and eastern england and in scotland and eastern england and in scotland and northern ireland, more cloud filtering from the north, some showery rain and quite a brisk rain
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for western scotland and northern ireland, iii degrees in stornoway, maybe 22 in london. on sunday, sunshine and showers again for many but with this band of cloud and increasingly light and patchy rain getting into parts of northern ireland, temperatures again in the south—east could reach 22 degrees. the frontal system effecting northern ireland will push a little further east on sunday night but it will be weakening because this ridge of high pressure tries to build so actually monday, of course the bank holiday for many of us, looks set to be the driest day of the weekend. still one or two showers but some spells of sunshine as well.- spells of sunshine as well. thank ou. and that's bbc news at ten. there's more analysis of the day's main stories on newsnight with ben chu which is just getting under way on bbc two. the news continues here on bbc one, as now it's time to join our colleagues across the nations and regions for the news where you are, but from the ten team, it's goodnight.
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does the uk's sanctions regime on russian oil imports have a serious leak? a newsnight investigation finds that, despite the ban on imports of russian oil, the uk has indirectly consumed more than two million barrels of russian crude this year. we'll speak to an american congressman looking to close the same legal loophole in the us. also tonight... the spanish football federation president refuses to resign for kissing one of its world cup—winning stars on the lips, and now the team has gone on strike. is football's leadership institutionally misogynst? we'rejoined by the director
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of women in football. music: shape of you by ed sheeran and this ed sheeran track was the first to reach three billion spotify streams, but it wasn't the last. as the music digital streaming industry revolution advances, we've brought together a grammy—nominated artist, a streaming executive and a leading industry figure to discuss who's getting the fair share of the spoils. good evening. sanctions and embargoes were one of the central features of the western response to russia's invasion of ukraine. travel sanctions on kremlin—connected individuals, bans on exports of money and machinery to russia. and, of course, a ban on imports of russian oil. but newsnight has seen evidence that this prohibition might not have been as comprehensive as presented. that's because by no means all countries joined the boycott. indian imports of russian crude have increased substantially since the war began. and uk oil companies — by importing refined oilfrom india —
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might have effectively bought in more than two million barrels of russian energy indirectly, depite the ban. now, this is not a breach of the letter of the sanctions. it's certainly not illegal. but it does raise a question of whether this is a loophole in the sanctions regime that needs to be closed, and not just by the uk. here's emir with the story. we are here in southern greece. the picturesque laconia golf is a home to fishermen and an international tourist destination. but all is not as it seems. we are here to see how this idyllic location has now become a key artery for russian oil. the area is packed with huge tankers. we area is packed with huge tankers. we are just leaving greek territorial waters and we are approaching a number of tankers that have left russia and we believe they are here to exchange russian crude. and here
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they are, we find two tankers in the middle of a ship to ship transfer. these two boats you can see behind me are oil tankers. the boat in the distance is from russia and is moving oil to the boat nearest to us. here in international waters, this practice is legal and is one way in which russian oil continues to be exported throughout the world, often with the help of western shipping companies. and some of the millions of barrels of oil that passes through this area will ultimately find its way to countries that have bans on russian oil including the uk. industry data confirms what we see russian crude has picked up here to be transferred onwards to places like turkey and india. bbc newsnight has had exclusive access to figures calculated by the environmental campaign group global witness. since a ban on importing russian energy was imported by the uk with the g7 and eu injanuary, the numbers show the amount of russian energy that
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has been processed in indian refineries and made its way to the uk legally since then. the figures have been reviewed by bbc verify and shown to independent experts. so how does this russian energy still get to us? travelling thousands of miles by tanker to three refineries in india including the well�*s biggest refinery. here, the crude oil is mixed from products from other sources and refined into diesel. across the three refineries, russian oil makes up around 45% of what goes into the final product. in the six months following january this year, the uk imported 6.2 million barrels of refined energy from these three refineries, of which an estimated 2.33 million barrels was made with russian crude. the diesel is used to power uk planes. the figures are equivalent to one in eight of our flights, using fuel from these refineries. one in 20 british flights being powered purely by russian crude. so how much is this
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all worth it for russia? according to the figures in the first six months of 2023, the energy bought by the uk generated more than $122 million in revenue for russia. of which, at least $52 million went directly to the kremlin in tax revenues. so you have had chance to look at the calculations, they look roughly in the right ballpark to you? i roughly in the right ballpark to ou? . , , ., you? i have seen the figures and the do you? i have seen the figures and they do appear _ you? i have seen the figures and they do appear to _ you? i have seen the figures and they do appear to have - you? i have seen the figures and they do appear to have put - you? i have seen the figures and they do appear to have put veryl they do appear to have put very serious efforts to come up with very thorough estimates. in those estimates both relating to petroleum products coming to the united kingdom and those revenues going to russia are very much within the expected ballpark. we russia are very much within the expected ballpark.— russia are very much within the expected ballpark. we raised the issue with uk _ expected ballpark. we raised the issue with uk government, - expected ballpark. we raised the issue with uk government, they | expected ballpark. we raised the - issue with uk government, they told us the claim is not true, importers are required to provide proof goods are required to provide proof goods are not of russian origin and since the ban came into effect, there has been no impact —— import of russian oil and oil products into the uk. products are regarded as originating from a country if there has been a
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substantial and economically justified processing in that jurisdiction. so the government have told us that if the energy imported in this way is refined in a third country like india, it doesn't matter if it is 30, 50, 100% based on russian crude, it is no longer russian. and the government can say they have ended all imports of russian energy.— they have ended all imports of russian energy. these new figures are a wake-up _ russian energy. these new figures are a wake-up call _ russian energy. these new figures are a wake-up call for _ russian energy. these new figures are a wake-up call for us - russian energy. these new figures are a wake-up call for us and - russian energy. these new figures are a wake-up call for us and for i are a wake—up call for us and for everybody. russia is using the refining loopholes to sell oil to those countries. and so are our allies, including the uk. they need to close these loopholes that russia is using to sell its oil. and we call on our partners to end this trade. ., , , call on our partners to end this trade. . , , ., ., trade. the uk has been a leading su orter trade. the uk has been a leading supporter of _ trade. the uk has been a leading supporter of ukraine's _ trade. the uk has been a leading supporter of ukraine's war - trade. the uk has been a leading l supporter of ukraine's war efforts, implement and sanctions that look to disrupt the kremlin�*s energy revenues. but was it anticipated
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that russia would be able to exploit the refining loopholes so significantly, plugging losses that the sanctions to make? this is the first time we _ the sanctions to make? this is the first time we know _ the sanctions to make? this is the first time we know exactly - the sanctions to make? this is the first time we know exactly how - the sanctions to make? this is the i first time we know exactly how much thrat's— first time we know exactly how much that's worth — first time we know exactly how much that's worth to the kremlin, so we now understand that our purchases is funding _ now understand that our purchases is funding the _ now understand that our purchases is funding the war in ukraine to the cheers_ funding the war in ukraine to the cheers of— funding the war in ukraine to the cheers of tens of millions and that we can— cheers of tens of millions and that we can have a real impact by shutting _ we can have a real impact by shutting it off —— to the tune of. so shutting it off —— to the tune of. 50 russia — shutting it off —— to the tune of. so russia has essentiallyjust skirted — so russia has essentiallyjust skirted around the sanctions. big british— skirted around the sanctions. big british firms like bp and shell are buying _ british firms like bp and shell are buying thisjet fuel. british firms like bp and shell are buying this jet fuel. shell, british firms like bp and shell are buying thisjet fuel. shell, for example. _ buying thisjet fuel. shell, for example, still has a pledge proudly displayed on its website to withdraw from all _ displayed on its website to withdraw from all russian hydrocarbons. is from all russian hydrocarbons. [s the uk from all russian hydrocarbons. the uk the from all russian hydrocarbons. is the uk the only country doing this? no, so the is also importing this russian — no, so the is also importing this russian origin fuel, primarily as gasoline — russian origin fuel, primarily as gasoline -- _ russian origin fuel, primarily as gasoline —— the us. us drivers potentially being forced to buy russian — potentially being forced to buy russian origin fuel. and it is also happening — russian origin fuel. and it is also happening in the eu.— russian origin fuel. and it is also happening in the eu. could these
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ener: happening in the eu. could these energy companies _ happening in the eu. could these energy companies buying - happening in the eu. could these energy companies buying that. happening in the eu. could these - energy companies buying that energy not look elsewhere?— energy companies buying that energy not look elsewhere? these companies are seizin: not look elsewhere? these companies are seizing on — not look elsewhere? these companies are seizing on a _ not look elsewhere? these companies are seizing on a market _ not look elsewhere? these companies are seizing on a market opportunity. l are seizing on a market opportunity. they could _ are seizing on a market opportunity. they could absolutely replace it, but they— they could absolutely replace it, but they are choosing not to for financial — but they are choosing not to for financial reasons. we but they are choosing not to for financial reasons.— but they are choosing not to for financial reasons. we put the issues raised to some _ financial reasons. we put the issues raised to some of _ financial reasons. we put the issues raised to some of the _ financial reasons. we put the issues raised to some of the energy - raised to some of the energy companies involved. bp told us that within a week of the attack, bp decided not to enter to new contracts with russian energy companies. bp take compliance with sanctions very seriously. g7 governments have designed a system to maintain the flow of oil while limiting funds available to russia. refining energy in a third country changes its legal origin. but this energy we are purchasing is still significantly sourced from russia's oil fields.
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significantly sourced from russia's oilfields. billions have been spent tjy oilfields. billions have been spent by the uk and partners in supporting ukraine's war effort. now these countries must ask themselves whether this is fuel they want to keep burning. joining me now is democrat member of the us house of representatives lloyd doggett, who has been one of the leading forces in the us congress when it comes to sanctioning russia. thank you forjoining us on newsnight. can i start by saying, is this happening in the us as well? we heard it is happening in the uk, is it also happening in america? it does appear to be occurring here, about 12 million barrels of oil came in during the first five months of this year. and every penny, whether it is in the us or pound sterling in the uk, that is getting back to the russians, is paying for the war crimes that they are committing in ukraine and we have to put a stop to this. �* , . ~ ukraine and we have to put a stop to this. �*, ., ~ ., ., ., , this. let's talk about how that is done, is this. let's talk about how that is done. is that — this. let's talk about how that is done, is that about _ this. let's talk about how that is
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done, is that about putting - this. let's talk about how that is - done, is that about putting pressure on the companies themselves who are importing the soil or is it legislation? does the government need to act here?— need to act here? well, i think we need to act here? well, i think we need both- _ need to act here? well, i think we need both- i— need to act here? well, i think we need both. i do _ need to act here? well, i think we need both. i do think— need to act here? well, i think we need both. i do think we need - need to act here? well, i think we need both. i do think we need to i need both. i do think we need to expose those companies and the companies you mentioned as well are some major american companies like exxonmobil among those importing this gasoline from abroad. we need legislation, though. when i had sponsored the original sanctions legislation just after the invasion in 2022, i don't think we contemplated the possibility of circumvention. this is really very similar to money—laundering, but it is a laundromat that has occurred here on this and russia gets the money and it doesn't make any difference if it is crude and refined we need to plug this loophole. and i will be calling on the administration to do this administratively, which i think they can do, but also entering a
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legislation that would call on banning imports from any refinery that has russian oil. and we know that has russian oil. and we know that the refinery that america looks to a great deal, the one you mentioned, the largest in the world in india, is getting about 35% of the oil it refines from russia. and the oil it refines from russia. and in terms of _ the oil it refines from russia. and in terms of legislation, do you think you could secure bipartisan support for there is or has the mood fundamentally changed in america? we fundamentally changed in america? - would certainly look for that. i think that while the trump wing of the republican party continues to lean to putin instead of the freedom fighters in ukraine, that there is some broad bipartisan support for ukraine, particularly here at this independence day week. and i will be seeking support from republicans as well as democrats.— well as democrats. when you post our first well as democrats. when you post your first piece _ well as democrats. when you post your first piece of _ well as democrats. when you post your first piece of legislation - well as democrats. when you post your first piece of legislation last l your first piece of legislation last year, he said this would hurt and there would be paying on the american consumer as a result of this, but it would be a price worth
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paying. is it a price worth paying now to close of this loophole, how much pain can the american public take? ~ ~ ., , take? well, i think that will be the ma'or take? well, i think that will be the major question _ take? well, i think that will be the major question raised, _ take? well, i think that will be the major question raised, but - take? well, i think that will be the major question raised, but the - major question raised, but the amount of foreign oil coming in in this fashion from these refined products in this case in this fashion is i think modest enough that it will not have an impact on the price of the pump. but it is big enough that it will deny vital funds to russia, that it will be using to promote more aggression in ukraine. let's take a step back. the sanctions working, notjust the sanction, but sanctions more broadly, are they succeeding in what they set out to do or are they fundamentally failing?- they set out to do or are they fundamentally failing? well, i think the are fundamentally failing? well, i think they are lacking. — fundamentally failing? well, i think they are lacking, i— fundamentally failing? well, i think they are lacking, i think _ fundamentally failing? well, i think they are lacking, i think they - fundamentally failing? well, i think they are lacking, i think they have i they are lacking, i think they have accomplished something, i think we see that with the recent actions of the russian bank and the decline of the russian bank and the decline of the rouble. but there is not enough, we need to do more and the most important thing we need to do is not sanctions, but get to the ukrainians
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all the weapons they need as quickly as possible to use in this counter—offensive. as possible to use in this counter-offensive. ., , , counter-offensive. congressmen lloyd do . . ett counter-offensive. congressmen lloyd doggett thank you _ counter-offensive. congressmen lloyd doggett thank you for _ counter-offensive. congressmen lloyd doggett thank you forjoining - counter-offensive. congressmen lloyd doggett thank you forjoining us - doggett thank you forjoining us here on newsnight. doggett thank you for 'oining us here on newsnight._ despite overwhelming pressure to quit after he kissed a spanish world cup star on the lips following spain's world cup victory last week, the president of the spanish football federation, luis rubiales, insisted today he would not step down. translation: i will not resign. translation: iwill not resign. i will not resign. _ translation: iwill not resign. i will not resign. i _ translation: iwill not resign. i will not resign. i will— translation: iwill not resign. i will not resign. i will not resign. l jenni hermoso has this evening reiterated that she did not consent to be kissed. 81 spain players confirmed they will not play for the national team until rubiales is removed from his post, and the england team have tonight condemned a "sexist and patriarchal organisation". but is sexism and institutional misogyny a problem only in the country of the world cup—winning nation? or does it, as some argue, go further?
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joining me now is jane purdon, the director of the uk's women in football. thank you forjoining us. we heard that 81 spain players say they will not play for the national team until mr rubiales goes, but not many spanish male players havejoined that. is that a disappointment? same that. is that a disappointment? some have, it is that. is that a disappointment? some have. it is a — that. is that a disappointment? some have. it is a bit _ that. is that a disappointment? some have, it is a bit of _ that. is that a disappointment? some have, it is a bit of a _ have, it is a bit of a disappointment because we know that in this work, truly open up football for everybody, the men are so important, we heard the fifa president saying he was going to open the doors and a lot of people were rolling their eyes because we have been hammering on the doors for decades. but men hold the power in football so they have to share the power and listen to what women are saying. and every country and every football institution at some point has its moment of truth about women
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in football, they want women to come in football, they want women to come in and they love the idea that we are expanding audiences on the idea we are getting success for the countries, it is fabulous, but to do this properly involves deep self examination to say, i'll be including everybody?- examination to say, i'll be including everybody? this is the moment of— including everybody? this is the moment of truth _ including everybody? this is the moment of truth for _ including everybody? this is the moment of truth for spain - including everybody? this is the moment of truth for spain but i including everybody? this is the i moment of truth for spain but how much more advanced are we in england? if this happened here, would have played out differently? it would have played out differently in the sense that i think he would have been gone by now. we havejust done a members survey and the members are predominantly women but some men and nonbinary people and what the women members have told us is that over 80% have experienced discrimination in the football workforce and about 18% have experienced sexual harassment. these are very stark figures. but there is another side. an overwhelming majority also told us that they are
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very optimistic about the future for women in football and i think there is a sense of an industry changing and that has changed, i have worked in football for the quarter of a century and have witnessed a lot of the change and women are in the middle of this, we still have a long way to go and what it is helpful to talk about football, we also need to remember that there is probably over 100 different employers of football in this country and they will vary. we would say to any young woman, you can thrive in football and build a successful career here. but we still have a lot of work to do and again, while rain the members can do a lot, we really need the football industry to engage and listen and help to be part of the change. many of them are doing that. part of the change. many of them are doinu that. ~ ., , ., , doing that. where are the problem areas? clubs? _ doing that. where are the problem areas? clubs? the _ doing that. where are the problem areas? clubs? the fa? _ doing that. where are the problem areas? clubs? the fa? where - doing that. where are the problem areas? clubs? the fa? where can| doing that. where are the problem - areas? clubs? the fa? where can work progress change in the uk?—
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progress change in the uk? again, there are clubs _ progress change in the uk? again, there are clubs and _ progress change in the uk? again, there are clubs and clubs, - progress change in the uk? again, there are clubs and clubs, it - progress change in the uk? again, there are clubs and clubs, it is - there are clubs and clubs, it is hard to be broadbrush about this but we know that whether or more women in leadership positions in football than there used to be, for example both them the premier league have women as the chairs, there are not enough given that we are 51% of the population. the numbers in the boardrooms and management not look anything like that. that is changing. but the rate of change is sometimes painfully slow. and always, when you try to change a culture, you have to start with the leadership and get a leadership team who, unlike the leadership of the spanish federation, get it, they are listening and responsive and might be thinking about what they need to change within themselves. and be thinking about what they need to change within themselves.— change within themselves. and fan culture, change within themselves. and fan culture. so — change within themselves. and fan culture, so much _ change within themselves. and fan culture, so much positivity - change within themselves. and fan culture, so much positivity towards the women's game in england but what about fan culture? is that as welcoming as it might be? i don't want to write _
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welcoming as it might be? i don't want to write off _ welcoming as it might be? i don't want to write off all _ welcoming as it might be? i don't want to write off all of _ welcoming as it might be? i don't want to write off all of the - welcoming as it might be? i don't want to write off all of the fans i want to write off all of the fans and i am a football fan myself, but i sometimes hear stories from members and i think, gosh, i was going to football as a fan in the 80s and 90s and only rarely encountered trouble lewis because of my gender but i sometimes worry it is more widespread. it is certainly one dreaded social media, that can be a cesspit, particularly for high—profile female players. be a cesspit, particularly for high-profile female players. some distant still to _ high-profile female players. some distant still to go. _ high-profile female players. some distant still to go. thank _ high-profile female players. some distant still to go. thank you - high—profile female players. some distant still to go. thank you very much forjoining us tonight on newsnight. despite talk of a "vinyl revival" and a "cassette comeback", the way most people listen to music now is clear — it's digital streaming. yet a sense of injustice about this streaming economic model — where the artists get paid a tiny sum for each track played — is growing. the uk government has established an industry working group to look at fair pay for creators. in a moment we'll discuss this with an artist and producer, a streaming executive and a record company trade representative.
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but first, a look at the numbers. it's always been a winner—take—all industry of extremes. the winners — the rock giants — have for years racked up big numbers beyond the wildest dreams of the average musician. the same is true for actors and writers. but has the advent of streaming worsened the inequality in music? take the uk's current most successful musical artist, ed sheeran. his shape of you was the first song to hit three billion streams on spotify. at an estimated one third of a penny per stream in britain, that would be over £10 million in revenue, and still counting. sheeran is doing ok from streaming because he is incredibly popular. but that same third of a penny per stream model makes it hard for smaller artists to make money on spotify, the biggest music streaming giant. it's estimated you would have
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to listen to any one track from an album 3000 times to give a musician the same revenue as an old—fashioned cd album sale. most artists make very little money from streaming, but ratherfrom playing live. but without streaming, how would your audience find you to go to your concert or buy your cd? you can see how physical music sales — shown in red — have been displaced by streaming — shown in blue — since 1999. spotify is clearly making a lot in revenue — 11 billion euros last year. yet it still operates at a loss — 370 million euros in 2022. so where has the money gone? joining us to talk about that is orlando higginbottom — an artist, songwriter and producer also known as totally enormous extinct dinosaurs, gitte bendzulla, the chief operating officer
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of the french streaming firm deezer, and sophiejones, chief strategy officer, of the british phonographic industry, the trade body of the recorded music industry. orlando, you have had a few streams on your career, how the economics been working out for you? where has the money gone? it is been working out for you? where has the money gone?— the money gone? it is important to describe the _ the money gone? it is important to describe the viewers _ the money gone? it is important to describe the viewers just _ the money gone? it is important to describe the viewersjust how - the money gone? it is important to describe the viewersjust how i - the money gone? it is important to describe the viewersjust how i get | describe the viewers just how i get paid. there is an idea that streaming companies pay artists, streaming companies pay artists, streaming companies pay artists, streaming companies do not pay the artists at all, they pay the rights holders, which were the labels and publishers, and then the artists or the musicians have their deals with the musicians have their deals with the labels and publishers and they get the money from them. the arrangements between streaming companies and the rights holders are firmly closely held secret. there is a huge amount of money going around,
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we know that in 2021, spotify alone paid out 7 billion to rights holders. but there is no accountability to know where that goes and how that gets divided up and it gets very complicated. you have had millions _ and it gets very complicated. you have had millions of streams. is that bringing in a lot of money for you personally? it that bringing in a lot of money for you personally?— that bringing in a lot of money for you personally? it depends on, the music i self — you personally? it depends on, the music i self release, _ you personally? it depends on, the music i self release, as _ you personally? it depends on, the music i self release, as i _ you personally? it depends on, the music i self release, as i have - music i self release, as i have become completely independent, that does make me an income. not a great one, but i get a reasonable chunk of the pie, but it is not great. the music that i sound to universal, when my career started, i don't see anything. when my career started, i don't see an hina. ., ., anything. nothing? even though millions are _ anything. nothing? even though millions are listening _ anything. nothing? even though millions are listening to - anything. nothing? even though millions are listening to it? - anything. nothing? even though millions are listening to it? you | millions are listening to it? you don't see any return on that? yes. don't see any return on that? yes, and that is — don't see any return on that? yes, and that is an _ don't see any return on that? 1a: and that is an understandable side and that is an understandable side and there is a more complicated site to that, but the labels get too
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leveraged my catalogue every quarter, to get another big paycheque from the streaming services, and whether i owe them money or not, my music is part of their big pile of catalogue that they take around and sell to people. the money is going to the record labels. sophie, how can you justify that division of the pie? very little seems to be going to the artists but most of it goes to the record companies? i artists but most of it goes to the record companies?— artists but most of it goes to the record companies? i don't know the ins and outs — record companies? i don't know the ins and outs of _ record companies? i don't know the ins and outs of orlando's _ record companies? i don't know the ins and outs of orlando's situation, | ins and outs of orlando's situation, but it— ins and outs of orlando's situation, but it is— ins and outs of orlando's situation, but it is interesting to hear that as a _ but it is interesting to hear that as a self— but it is interesting to hear that as a self releasing artist you're doing — as a self releasing artist you're doing reasonably well in that space and i_ doing reasonably well in that space and i think— doing reasonably well in that space and i think that points to one thing that has— and i think that points to one thing that has happened in the streaming economy, _ that has happened in the streaming economy, it has opened up much more choice _ economy, it has opened up much more choice to— economy, it has opened up much more choice to artists to foster the kind of deal— choice to artists to foster the kind of deal they want to with a great range _ of deal they want to with a great range of— of deal they want to with a great range of labels, that is one of the changes — range of labels, that is one of the changes. the other thing, standing i’ilht changes. the other thing, standing right back, — changes. the other thing, standing right back, the industry was almost brought— right back, the industry was almost brought to — right back, the industry was almost brought to a freeze in the days of the early— brought to a freeze in the days of
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the early internet distribution and piracy, _ the early internet distribution and piracy, and — the early internet distribution and piracy, and actually, one of the things— piracy, and actually, one of the things labels have done is negotiated really hard with the platforms to form strong partnerships whilst maintaining a balance _ partnerships whilst maintaining a balance between paying artists under the contracts but also keeping that pipeline _ the contracts but also keeping that pipeline of new investment coming through— pipeline of new investment coming through because that new investment into new— through because that new investment into new talent and artists and of course _ into new talent and artists and of course in — into new talent and artists and of course in a — into new talent and artists and of course in a ferociously competitive market. _ course in a ferociously competitive market, every track and every artist is competing with every single other track that— is competing with every single other track that has ever been recorded. you are _ track that has ever been recorded. you are up— track that has ever been recorded. you are up against billions and billions. — you are up against billions and billions, 160 billion streams in the uk alone — billions, 160 billion streams in the uk alone in— billions, 160 billion streams in the uk alone in the latest reports are of 120,000 tracks uploaded to of120,000 tracks uploaded to spotify— of 120,000 tracks uploaded to spotify every single day. in that intensity — spotify every single day. in that intensity of competition, the battle for fan _ intensity of competition, the battle for fan attention is more intense than _ for fan attention is more intense than ever~ — for fan attention is more intense than ever. and that has shifted the metrics— than ever. and that has shifted the metrics of— than ever. and that has shifted the metrics of success. a few million streams— metrics of success. a few million streams might sound like a lot compared to the kind of metrics of selling _ compared to the kind of metrics of selling a _ compared to the kind of metrics of selling a cd, but we must measure
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commercial— selling a cd, but we must measure commercial success in the tens and hundreds— commercial success in the tens and hundreds of— commercial success in the tens and hundreds of millions of streams, and talking _ hundreds of millions of streams, and talking about ed sheeran, billions. we are _ talking about ed sheeran, billions. we are seeing more artists succeeding in the streaming economy then succeeding in the streaming economy than used _ succeeding in the streaming economy then used to be the case.— then used to be the case. because of their promotion _ then used to be the case. because of their promotion activities _ then used to be the case. because of their promotion activities and - their promotion activities and investment, they need a return? orlando, do you accept the argument that the record companies and the labels put a lot of investment in, then either return and they have lots of artists who are not successful and they are redistributing money within the industry to people who need support? they are getting a huge return, it goes up every year by billions. we want to see accountability on how that money gets to us and better deals and we want to see older deals being renegotiated from before the streaming era where the terms are terrible and had nothing to do with the way we are working now. so there is, the record labels do not need to complain about anything, they are
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doing great, every year it gets better and better and every year more and more musicians are turning around and saying, i don't feel like i am getting paid properly. we need a more equitable _ i am getting paid properly. we need a more equitable distribution? - i am getting paid properly. we need a more equitable distribution? youl a more equitable distribution? you represent a streaming provider. why do the streaming providers seemingly pay so little for every track? what is the economicjustification? should not be higher? the pie is biggerfor the record companies at the artists? bigger for the record companies at the artists? ., ., , bigger for the record companies at the artists?— the artists? orlando is right to say that music streaming _ the artists? orlando is right to say that music streaming companies l the artists? orlando is right to say l that music streaming companies are paying _ that music streaming companies are paying 70%— that music streaming companies are paying 70% of— that music streaming companies are paying 70% of the _ that music streaming companies are paying 70% of the revenues, - that music streaming companies are paying 70% of the revenues, so - that music streaming companies are paying 70% of the revenues, so to i paying 70% of the revenues, so to paying 70% of the revenues, so to pay for _ paying 70% of the revenues, so to pay for the — paying 70% of the revenues, so to pay for the subscription _ paying 70% of the revenues, so to pay for the subscription to - pay for the subscription to independent _ pay for the subscription to independent artists, - pay for the subscription to independent artists, and i pay for the subscription to i independent artists, and this supports _ independent artists, and this supports the _ independent artists, and this supports the fans _ independent artists, and this supports the fans in - independent artists, and this supports the fans in the - independent artists, and this. supports the fans in the music industry— supports the fans in the music industry and _ supports the fans in the music industry and it _ supports the fans in the music industry and it believes - supports the fans in the music industry and it believes that. supports the fans in the music - industry and it believes that every artist _ industry and it believes that every artist should — industry and it believes that every artist should get _ industry and it believes that every artist should get fair— industry and it believes that every artist should get fair enumerationj artist should get fair enumeration for their— artist should get fair enumeration for their art _ artist should get fair enumeration for their art. what _ artist should get fair enumeration for their art. what we _ artist should get fair enumeration for their art. what we believe - artist should get fair enumeration for their art. what we believe is i artist should get fair enumeration for their art. what we believe is aj
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for their art. what we believe is a truly— for their art. what we believe is a truly music— for their art. what we believe is a truly music is _ for their art. what we believe is a truly music is currently— for their art. what we believe is a truly music is currently very - truly music is currently very undervalued _ truly music is currently very undervalued and _ truly music is currently very undervalued and this - truly music is currently very undervalued and this is- truly music is currently very undervalued and this is why truly music is currently very . undervalued and this is why we truly music is currently very - undervalued and this is why we have announced _ undervalued and this is why we have announced a — undervalued and this is why we have announced a march _ undervalued and this is why we have announced a march that _ undervalued and this is why we have announced a march that we - undervalued and this is why we have announced a march that we are - announced a march that we are starting — announced a march that we are starting to— announced a march that we are starting to explore, _ announced a march that we are starting to explore, the - announced a march that we are starting to explore, the next i starting to explore, the next generation— starting to explore, the next generation of— starting to explore, the next generation of music - starting to explore, the next i generation of music streaming payment — generation of music streaming payment model— generation of music streaming payment model that _ generation of music streamingj payment model that highlights generation of music streaming - payment model that highlights the value of— payment model that highlights the value of music. _ payment model that highlights the value of music. find _ payment model that highlights the value of music.— payment model that highlights the value of music. and how much does deezer pay — value of music. and how much does deezer pay for _ value of music. and how much does deezer pay for each _ value of music. and how much does deezer pay for each streamed - value of music. and how much does deezer pay for each streamed song | value of music. and how much does i deezer pay for each streamed song to the artists? i deezer pay for each streamed song to the artists? .., ., , ., ., the artists? i cannot tell you that. is that confidential? _ the artists? i cannot tell you that. is that confidential? i _ the artists? i cannot tell you that. is that confidential? i would - the artists? i cannot tell you that. is that confidential? i would need | is that confidential? i would need to check— is that confidential? i would need to check that _ is that confidential? i would need to check that. 70%— is that confidential? i would need to check that. 70% of— is that confidential? i would need to check that. 70% of the - is that confidential? i would need | to check that. 70% of the revenue is that confidential? i would need i to check that. 70% of the revenue is publicly— to check that. 70% of the revenue is publicly stood — to check that. 70% of the revenue is publicly stood-— publicly stood. there is a lack of transparency. — publicly stood. there is a lack of transparency, we _ publicly stood. there is a lack of transparency, we do _ publicly stood. there is a lack of transparency, we do not - publicly stood. there is a lack of transparency, we do not know. l publicly stood. there is a lack of - transparency, we do not know. would you agree with that? to transparency, we do not know. would you agree with that?— you agree with that? to pick up on a coule of you agree with that? to pick up on a couple of things _ you agree with that? to pick up on a couple of things orlando _ you agree with that? to pick up on a couple of things orlando was - you agree with that? to pick up on a| couple of things orlando was saying, as we _ couple of things orlando was saying, as we have _ couple of things orlando was saying, as we have seen, the market returning _ as we have seen, the market returning to growth, the labels have increased _ returning to growth, the labels have increased significantly the amount they are _ increased significantly the amount they are spending on artist and repertoire, and to the marketing and promotion. _ repertoire, and to the marketing and promotion, and that has gone up significantly, it has doubled in the last four— significantly, it has doubled in the last four years and we have seen royalty— last four years and we have seen royalty rates going up. and we have seen artists' income as a proportion of revenue —
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seen artists' income as a proportion of revenue going up faster than the revenue _ of revenue going up faster than the revenue. there have been positive moves _ revenue. there have been positive moves as— revenue. there have been positive moves as the market has returned to health— moves as the market has returned to health but _ moves as the market has returned to health but we have also had the competition and markets authority looking _ competition and markets authority looking at the industry and concluding there are not excessive profits _ concluding there are not excessive profits and — concluding there are not excessive profits and back to the point about how we _ profits and back to the point about how we can — profits and back to the point about how we can balance paying for what has already— how we can balance paying for what has already been created and ensuring _ has already been created and ensuring the new investment keeps coming _ ensuring the new investment keeps coming through, there is not an endless — coming through, there is not an endless supply in that although the industry— endless supply in that although the industry is in pretty rude health but there — industry is in pretty rude health but there is a lot to fund to keep that extraordinary success of british— that extraordinary success of british music going. on the transparency point, you were talking about _ transparency point, you were talking about the _ transparency point, you were talking about the government processes, that is one _ about the government processes, that is one of— about the government processes, that is one of the _ about the government processes, that is one of the things that has been a bil is one of the things that has been a big area _ is one of the things that has been a big area of— is one of the things that has been a big area of focus and we all agree and have — big area of focus and we all agree and have developed a transparency code that _ and have developed a transparency code that without getting into areas of real— code that without getting into areas of real commercial sensitivity, it is going — of real commercial sensitivity, it is going to — of real commercial sensitivity, it is going to be a step change in the way in _ is going to be a step change in the way in which artists are informed about— way in which artists are informed about the — way in which artists are informed about the broadbrush policies around how platforms work and the money is distributed _ how platforms work and the money is distributed. | how platforms work and the money is distributed. ., ., , , .,
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distributed. i want to bring you back because _ distributed. i want to bring you back because the _ distributed. i want to bring you back because the governmentl distributed. i want to bring you i back because the government has distributed. i want to bring you - back because the government has a task force, the uk government, if it were to introduce legislation to change the division of the pie to give more to the artists, from a streaming company's perspective, streaming compa ny�*s perspective, would streaming company's perspective, would that be aggressive or positive? i would that be aggressive or ositive? , ., , positive? i still tend to believe that in the _ positive? i still tend to believe that in the music _ positive? i still tend to believe that in the music industry - positive? i still tend to believe i that in the music industry we are pursuing — that in the music industry we are pursuing a — that in the music industry we are pursuing a common _ that in the music industry we are pursuing a common goal- that in the music industry we are pursuing a common goal with. that in the music industry we are| pursuing a common goal with our players _ pursuing a common goal with our players and — pursuing a common goal with our players and that _ pursuing a common goal with our players and that is _ pursuing a common goal with our players and that is improving - pursuing a common goal with our players and that is improving the | players and that is improving the economics — players and that is improving the economics for— players and that is improving the economics for everyone - players and that is improving the | economics for everyone involved. obviously — economics for everyone involved. obviously including _ economics for everyone involved. obviously including the _ economics for everyone involved. obviously including the artists. i economics for everyone involved. i obviously including the artists. and with the _ obviously including the artists. and with the new— obviously including the artists. and with the new initiative _ obviously including the artists. and with the new initiative which - obviously including the artists. and with the new initiative which we - obviously including the artists. and with the new initiative which we are striving _ with the new initiative which we are striving for. — with the new initiative which we are striving for. the _ with the new initiative which we are striving for, the new— with the new initiative which we are striving for, the new payment - with the new initiative which we are i striving for, the new payment model that is— striving for, the new payment model that is intended _ striving for, the new payment model that is intended to— striving for, the new payment model that is intended to give _ striving for, the new payment model that is intended to give a _ striving for, the new payment model that is intended to give a boost- striving for, the new payment model that is intended to give a boost to i that is intended to give a boost to professional— that is intended to give a boost to professional artists, _ that is intended to give a boost to professional artists, i— that is intended to give a boost to professional artists, i think- that is intended to give a boost to professional artists, i think we - that is intended to give a boost to| professional artists, i think we are in a good — professional artists, i think we are in a good path _ professional artists, i think we are in a good path forward _ professional artists, i think we are in a good path forward without - in a good path forward without government— in a good path forward without government legislation. - in a good path forward without government legislation. legislation would be welcome? _ government legislation. legislation would be welcome? you _ government legislation. legislation would be welcome? you can - government legislation. legislation would be welcome? you can do - government legislation. legislation would be welcome? you can do it i pursuing a goal which we have pursued, you mentioned - pursuing a goal which we have i pursued, you mentioned piracy, pursuing a goal which we have - pursued, you mentioned piracy, that was how— pursued, you mentioned piracy, that was how the — pursued, you mentioned piracy, that was how the current _ pursued, you mentioned piracy, that was how the current streaming - pursued, you mentioned piracy, thati was how the current streaming model has been _ was how the current streaming model
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has been implemented. _ was how the current streaming model has been implemented. when - was how the current streaming model has been implemented. when piracy. has been implemented. when piracy threatened _ has been implemented. when piracy threatened the _ has been implemented. when piracy threatened the industry _ has been implemented. when piracy threatened the industry and - has been implemented. when piracy threatened the industry and the - threatened the industry and the livelihood — threatened the industry and the livelihood of— threatened the industry and the livelihood of artists _ threatened the industry and the livelihood of artists of— threatened the industry and the livelihood of artists of all - threatened the industry and the livelihood of artists of all kinds, and music— livelihood of artists of all kinds, and music streaming _ livelihood of artists of all kinds, and music streaming helped - livelihood of artists of all kinds, and music streaming helped tol livelihood of artists of all kinds, - and music streaming helped to bounce back and _ and music streaming helped to bounce back and provided _ and music streaming helped to bounce back and provided a _ and music streaming helped to bounce back and provided a stage _ and music streaming helped to bounce back and provided a stage to _ and music streaming helped to bounce back and provided a stage to reach - back and provided a stage to reach artists— back and provided a stage to reach artists globally— back and provided a stage to reach artists globally and _ back and provided a stage to reach artists globally and that _ back and provided a stage to reach artists globally and that should - artists globally and that should remain— artists globally and that should remain our— artists globally and that should remain ourfocus, _ artists globally and that should remain our focus, to _ artists globally and that should remain our focus, to make - artists globally and that should i remain our focus, to make music accessible — remain our focus, to make music accessible and _ remain our focus, to make music accessible and to _ remain our focus, to make music accessible and to provide - remain our focus, to make music accessible and to provide artists. accessible and to provide artists with a _ accessible and to provide artists with a living _ accessible and to provide artists with a living whilst _ accessible and to provide artists with a living whilst still - accessible and to provide artists. with a living whilst still enhancing the value — with a living whilst still enhancing the value and _ with a living whilst still enhancing the value and highlighting - with a living whilst still enhancing the value and highlighting the - with a living whilst still enhancing i the value and highlighting the value of music _ the value and highlighting the value of music ln— the value and highlighting the value of music. . , the value and highlighting the value of music. ., , ., ., of music. in the last word to orlando, — of music. in the last word to orlando. do _ of music. in the last word to orlando, do you _ of music. in the last word to orlando, do you believe - of music. in the last word to - orlando, do you believe legislation would be the wrong move? or is it ultimately what might need to happen to give artists like yourself a fareshare? it to give artists like yourself a fareshare?— to give artists like yourself a fareshare? ., , , , ., ., , fareshare? it happens already in certain areas _ fareshare? it happens already in certain areas of— fareshare? it happens already in certain areas of royalties - fareshare? it happens already in certain areas of royalties so - certain areas of royalties so publishing a site is written into copyright law and i think that we need to have more conversation about it, people need to understand and musicians need to be empowered to sign the right kind of deals and not sign the right kind of deals and not sign exported deals and we can move
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in the right direction, musicians like streaming but not the amount of money we are getting.— money we are getting. thank you for 'oinin: us money we are getting. thank you for joining us on — money we are getting. thank you for joining us on newsnight _ money we are getting. thank you for joining us on newsnight tonight. - that's all from us tonight. faisal�*s back on tuesday. until then, enjoy your bank holiday weekend. goodnight.
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day are orphans living in an area until the attacks killed their parents. these children's stories, they been hidden from the world. they are another generation whose voice were destroyed by the. to reach the camp. islamic state forced us to come here. other men were killed and they burned our food. there is a little in the way of medicine and food. some of the children are suffering from fever. they are in the grip of the african saharan region. and it had a big impact here. last year,...
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there's little in the way of medicine or food. and some of the children are suffering from a fever. jihadists may be on the retreat in the middle east, but their grip of the african sahel region is growing, and it's had a big impact here. last year, help from the west was pushed aside as support on the streets for russia grew. the military operation by the french ended as wagner fighters took up arms in mali. just days ago, prigozhin appeared in this video promising to rid countries of islamist threats. some of his supporters claim the clip was filmed in africa, possibly even in mali. we are forjustice and happiness for the african peoples. - we terrify islamic state, - al-qaeda and other gangsters. but the west has accused wagner of human rights violations in africa. these pictures released by the french military before they left allegedly show fighters burying bodies in a mass grave in eastern mali. this month, bases like this started pulling out leaving more areas in
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mali under islamic influence. the big question now is what role can wachner play in africa and who is left to stand up to this islamic threat. more than 80 spanish soccer players will boycott games for spain's national team until football federation president luis rubiales is removed from his post. rubiales has refused to resign after intense backlash for kissing forward player yenny hermoso, and also grabbing his crotch in celebration after spain's win over england in the women's world cup final. guy hedgecoe's sent this report from madrid and a warning, it contains footage some may find offensive. when the spanish team lifted the world cup last sunday, it was a historic moment. but the way in which the national football federation president,
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luis rubiales, celebrated has made the last few days bittersweet ones for spanish football. the controversial kiss he gave star strikerjenni hermoso has been hogging the headlines. so too have this image of him celebrating the world cup victory just feet away from spain's queen letizia. after days of mounting pressure, mr rubiales had been expected to resign. but at an extraordinary general meeting of the football federation, where he still appeared to enjoy some support, he insisted the kiss was consensual and he remained fiercely defiant. translation: is that so serious that i have to leave, _ while having done the bestjob for spanish football? do you really believe that i have to resign? well, i am going to tell you something, i will not resign. i will not resign. applause this was supposed to be a week when spain celebrated women's football, and the greatest ever achievement by its national team, but instead all of that has been overshadowed by one man's behaviour
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and the backlash against him. the world cup winning squad has issued a statement in whichjenni hermoso insisted that the kiss was not consensual. the episode has fed into an intense debate in spanish society about gender equality and sexual consent. translation: this is a critical moment in this country. - people are moving towards more gender equality. but this looks like an abuse of power and that's what we are fighting against. players from other countries have also spoken out. it's really sad that it totally ruined what was supposed to be the most special moment probably in hermoso's career, and spain's career. the government says it's taking action to remove mr rubiales from office and this should be spanish football's #metoo moment. mr rubiales's celebrations have triggered an institutional crisis in spanish football.
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the question now is how much this episode may have damaged spain's image as a modern sports superpower. guy hedgecoe, bbc news, madrid. donald trump continues to protest his innocence after the release of his mugshot thursday. hours after the former president was proccessed at the fulton county jail in atlanta his campaign website began selling mugshot branded mugs, tshirts, and wine coolers. then for the first time in two years trump posted on x, formerly known as twitter, to share the mugshot and the address of his website, with an all capital letters caption: "election interference. never surrender! " our correspondent barbara plett usher has the latest. donald trump is making the most of his mugshot. he's already turned it into a symbol of his campaign which may galvanise more republican
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support because it's increased after each indictment. the mugshot may drum home his message which he is a political martyr and he will never surrender. but when it comes to the campaign and how it will play out, there is no doubt his legal cases will force him to burn more cash. it's hard enough to run a campaign, never mind when you counting 91 felony counts in 4g restrictions. it's complicated because of all the defendants. this all sorts of legal manoeuvres. for location. many of the top heber plans to request a separate trial so that they are not all lumped together and one of the defendants has got such a deal so you are looking at the possibility
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of multiple trials in multiple

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