the air traffic problems which affected airspace over the uk yesterday afternoon are still having a major impact today — and are expected to continue for several days. u nfortu nately. by one estimate, more that 1,500 flights were cancelled yesterday — either leaving or arriving at uk airports. that's more than a quarter of flights — and it's causing a major heading for thousands of travellers. we are going to try and get some help and some answers to your questions. joining me is doug maclean — a former air traffic control manager and kelly cookes, chief commercial officer at advantage travel partnership. great to see you both, thank you very much for coming on. hopefully we can shed some light and a bit of help here. dou, let's start with the technical stuff first. are we any

further forward technical stuff first. are we any furtherforward in knowing what technical stuff first. are we any further forward in knowing what has actually gone wrong here? i further forward in knowing what has actually gone wrong here?— actually gone wrong here? i think the explanation _ actually gone wrong here? i think the explanation given _ actually gone wrong here? i think the explanation given was - actually gone wrong here? i think the explanation given was very i actually gone wrong here? i think i the explanation given was very basic and very straightforward. there was and very straightforward. there was a problem with the fried dill flight data processing system, which captures all of the advance information and forwards information between air traffic control centres. that was a major problem. it was going to run out of data in probably four hours, so they had to manually input and they solved the problem probably i think about the middle of the afternoon yesterday and restored it. but so far they have actually explained what the problem was. but it is now a fairly rare occurrence to have these sorts of things happening. to have these sorts of things happening-— to have these sorts of things happening. to have these sorts of things ha eninu. , �* , to have these sorts of things haueninu. , h ., happening. interesting. let's get on to the business _ happening. interesting. let's get on to the business of— happening. interesting. let's get on to the business of what _ happening. interesting. let's get on to the business of what hell-

happening. interesting. let's get on to the business of what hell people | to the business of what hell people can get. kelly, let's come to you. —— what help people can get. what help should passengers be getting from their airlines here? qm. help should passengers be getting from their airlines here? 0k, good morninu. from their airlines here? 0k, good morning- i — from their airlines here? 0k, good morning- i guess— from their airlines here? 0k, good morning. i guess the _ from their airlines here? 0k, good morning. i guess the good - from their airlines here? 0k, good morning. i guess the good news i from their airlines here? 0k, good morning. i guess the good news is| morning. i guess the good news is we're _ morning. i guess the good news is we're seeing a more positive picture this morning, in that the later data is telling _ this morning, in that the later data is telling us — this morning, in that the later data is telling us only 5% of flights in and out — is telling us only 5% of flights in and out of— is telling us only 5% of flights in and out of uk so far today have been cancelleti _ and out of uk so far today have been cancelled. as you just said, the knockmn— cancelled. as you just said, the knock—on impact will last for a few days _ knock—on impact will last for a few days so _ knock—on impact will last for a few days. so very aware that people are still stranded or are still looking for information. the reality is it is not _ for information. the reality is it is not a — for information. the reality is it is not a straightforward answer, unfortunately, because it does depend — unfortunately, because it does depend largely on whether you are travelling — depend largely on whether you are travelling within the eu and also whether— travelling within the eu and also whether the airline that you are travelling — whether the airline that you are travelling where there is a uk or eu airiine~ _ travelling where there is a uk or eu airiine~ but— travelling where there is a uk or eu airline. but if for example you are travelling — airline. but if for example you are travelling within the eu and you are with any— travelling within the eu and you are with any eu or uk based airline, then_ with any eu or uk based airline, thenthe— with any eu or uk based airline, then the three basic things that you can expect — then the three basic things that you can expect are to be re—routed or given— can expect are to be re—routed or given an — can expect are to be re—routed or given an alternative way to get to

your destination as soon as possible _ your destination as soon as possible. accommodation and expenses, reasonable expenses while you are _ expenses, reasonable expenses while you are stranded, whether that is either— you are stranded, whether that is either in — you are stranded, whether that is either in the resort or at the airport _ either in the resort or at the airport. and thirdly, onward travel costs. _ airport. and thirdly, onward travel costs. if— airport. and thirdly, onward travel costs. if the — airport. and thirdly, onward travel costs, if the alternative transport that you — costs, if the alternative transport that you end up getting is not to your— that you end up getting is not to your original uk airport. so all of those _ your original uk airport. so all of those things are available. if you are travelling from outside of the eu with _ are travelling from outside of the eu with a — are travelling from outside of the eu with a non—eu airline, there is slightly— eu with a non—eu airline, there is slightly different options available. so it is definitely worth 'ust available. so it is definitely worth just checking with your provider. realty— just checking with your provider. really clear, great stuff, kelly. thank you for that. going to bring in another expert to help us here, paul charles. great to see you. what people will be trying to get their head around today, tomorrow or the day after is wondering how do we get everything back to normal? what is

the logistics involved in what is the logistics involved in what is the timeframe? like the logistics involved in what is the timeframe?— the logistics involved in what is thetimeframe? ~' . , the timeframe? like a 'igsaw puzzle, with ieces the timeframe? like a 'igsaw puzzle, with pieces scattered i the timeframe? like a jigsaw puzzle, with pieces scattered all _ the timeframe? like a jigsaw puzzle, with pieces scattered all over- the timeframe? like a jigsaw puzzle, with pieces scattered all over the i with pieces scattered all over the world _ with pieces scattered all over the world it's — with pieces scattered all over the world it's hot _ with pieces scattered all over the world. it's not easy— with pieces scattered all over the world. it's not easy to _ with pieces scattered all over the world. it's not easy to bring i with pieces scattered all over the| world. it's not easy to bring them all back_ world. it's not easy to bring them all back together— world. it's not easy to bring them all back together again _ world. it's not easy to bring them all back together again to - world. it's not easy to bring themj all back together again to present anything — all back together again to present anything like _ all back together again to present anything like a _ all back together again to present anything like a normal— all back together again to present| anything like a normal operational day. essentially, _ anything like a normal operational day. essentially, when _ anything like a normal operational day. essentially, when the - anything like a normal operational. day. essentially, when the software outage _ day. essentially, when the software outage occurred, _ day. essentially, when the software outage occurred, it— day. essentially, when the software outage occurred, it sent _ day. essentially, when the software outage occurred, it sent a - day. essentially, when the software outage occurred, it sent a signal. day. essentially, when the software outage occurred, it sent a signal to| outage occurred, it sent a signal to the entire — outage occurred, it sent a signal to the entire aviation _ outage occurred, it sent a signal to the entire aviation industry, - outage occurred, it sent a signal to the entire aviation industry, everyl the entire aviation industry, every airiihe _ the entire aviation industry, every airiihe flying — the entire aviation industry, every airiihe flying irr— the entire aviation industry, every airline flying in and _ the entire aviation industry, every airline flying in and out— the entire aviation industry, every airline flying in and out of- the entire aviation industry, every airline flying in and out of the i the entire aviation industry, every airline flying in and out of the uk, that they— airline flying in and out of the uk, that they had _ airline flying in and out of the uk, that they had to _ airline flying in and out of the uk, that they had to put _ airline flying in and out of the uk, that they had to put a _ airline flying in and out of the uk, that they had to put a stop - airline flying in and out of the uk, that they had to put a stop on i airline flying in and out of the uk, i that they had to put a stop on most of those _ that they had to put a stop on most of those flights. _ that they had to put a stop on most of those flights. and _ that they had to put a stop on most of those flights. and when - that they had to put a stop on most of those flights. and when you i that they had to put a stop on most of those flights. and when you putl that they had to put a stop on mosti of those flights. and when you put a stop on— of those flights. and when you put a stop on flights, _ of those flights. and when you put a stop on flights, it _ of those flights. and when you put a stop on flights, it in— of those flights. and when you put a stop on flights, it in effect _ of those flights. and when you put a stop on flights, it in effect create i stop on flights, it in effect create several _ stop on flights, it in effect create several days _ stop on flights, it in effect create several days implications. - stop on flights, it in effect create several days implications. it- stop on flights, it in effect create i several days implications. it means that flight— several days implications. it means that flight crews _ several days implications. it means that flight crews go _ several days implications. it means that flight crews go out _ several days implications. it means that flight crews go out of - several days implications. it means that flight crews go out of their- that flight crews go out of their legal— that flight crews go out of their legal safety _ that flight crews go out of their legal safety hours _ that flight crews go out of their legal safety hours per - that flight crews go out of their legal safety hours per flying. itj legal safety hours per flying. it means — legal safety hours per flying. it means pilots— legal safety hours per flying. it means pilots can _ legal safety hours per flying. it means pilots can fly _ legal safety hours per flying. it means pilots can fly those i legal safety hours per flying. it i means pilots can fly those aircraft because _ means pilots can fly those aircraft because they _ means pilots can fly those aircraft because they are _ means pilots can fly those aircraft because they are also _ means pilots can fly those aircraft because they are also out - means pilots can fly those aircraft because they are also out of- means pilots can fly those aircraft| because they are also out of hours iegaiiy~ _ because they are also out of hours iegaiiy~ it — because they are also out of hours iegaiiy~ it meahs_ because they are also out of hours legally. it means the _ because they are also out of hours legally. it means the aircraft - because they are also out of hours legally. it means the aircraft are l legally. it means the aircraft are in the _ legally. it means the aircraft are in the wrong _ legally. it means the aircraft are in the wrong place. _ legally. it means the aircraft are in the wrong place. so _ legally. it means the aircraft are in the wrong place. so the - legally. it means the aircraft are | in the wrong place. so the airline piahhihg — in the wrong place. so the airline piahhihg teams _ in the wrong place. so the airline planning teams have _ in the wrong place. so the airline planning teams have to - in the wrong place. so the airline planning teams have to get - in the wrong place. so the airline i planning teams have to get together, as they— planning teams have to get together, as they have — planning teams have to get together, as they have ireen— planning teams have to get together, as they have been working _ planning teams have to get together, as they have been working all - planning teams have to get together, as they have been working all night, i as they have been working all night, to work— as they have been working all night, to work out— as they have been working all night, to work out when _ as they have been working all night, to work out when can _ as they have been working all night, to work out when can they— as they have been working all night, to work out when can they get - as they have been working all night, to work out when can they get theirl to work out when can they get their aircraft _ to work out when can they get their aircraft irack— to work out when can they get their aircraft back into _ to work out when can they get their aircraft back into the _ to work out when can they get their aircraft back into the various - aircraft back into the various airports _ aircraft back into the various airports around _ aircraft back into the various airports around the - aircraft back into the various airports around the uk - aircraft back into the various airports around the uk and i aircraft back into the various i airports around the uk and when aircraft back into the various - airports around the uk and when can aircraft _ airports around the uk and when can aircraft take —

airports around the uk and when can aircraft take off _ airports around the uk and when can aircraft take off from _ airports around the uk and when can aircraft take off from the _ airports around the uk and when can aircraft take off from the uk - airports around the uk and when can aircraft take off from the uk as - aircraft take off from the uk as well? — aircraft take off from the uk as well? that— aircraft take off from the uk as well? that is— aircraft take off from the uk as well? that is a _ aircraft take off from the uk as well? that is a very _ aircraft take off from the uk as well? that is a very complex i well? that is a very complex procedure _ well? that is a very complex procedure that— well? that is a very complex procedure that takes - well? that is a very complex procedure that takes several well? that is a very complex i procedure that takes several days well? that is a very complex - procedure that takes several days to recover _ procedure that takes several days to recover and — procedure that takes several days to recover and that _ procedure that takes several days to recover and that is _ procedure that takes several days to recover and that is why _ procedure that takes several days to recover and that is why even - procedure that takes several days to recover and that is why even though| recover and that is why even though the outage — recover and that is why even though the outage was _ recover and that is why even though the outage was fixed _ recover and that is why even though the outage was fixed yesterday i the outage was fixed yesterday afternoon. _ the outage was fixed yesterday afternoon, we _ the outage was fixed yesterday afternoon, we are _ the outage was fixed yesterday afternoon, we are going - the outage was fixed yesterday afternoon, we are going to- the outage was fixed yesterday afternoon, we are going to see j the outage was fixed yesterday i afternoon, we are going to see tens of thousands— afternoon, we are going to see tens of thousands of— afternoon, we are going to see tens of thousands of people _ afternoon, we are going to see tens of thousands of people affected i afternoon, we are going to see tens of thousands of people affected forl of thousands of people affected for two or— of thousands of people affected for two or three — of thousands of people affected for two or three more _ of thousands of people affected for two or three more days— of thousands of people affected for two or three more days yet. - of thousands of people affected for two or three more days yet.- two or three more days yet. whilst ou are two or three more days yet. whilst you are there. _ two or three more days yet. whilst you are there, from _ two or three more days yet. whilst you are there, from bethany i two or three more days yet. whilst i you are there, from bethany word, a viewer, she says: well my flight on saturday likely go ahead, will things be resolved by the weekend? yes, i am things be resolved by the weekend? yes, iam pretty things be resolved by the weekend? yes, i am pretty certain, things be resolved by the weekend? yes, iam pretty certain, as things be resolved by the weekend? yes, i am pretty certain, as long as the software — yes, i am pretty certain, as long as the software doesn't— yes, i am pretty certain, as long as the software doesn't fall— yes, i am pretty certain, as long as the software doesn't fall over- the software doesn't fall over agaih~ — the software doesn't fall over agaih~ we _ the software doesn't fall over again. we don't _ the software doesn't fall over again. we don't know- the software doesn't fall over again. we don't know the i the software doesn't fall over. again. we don't know the exact the software doesn't fall over- again. we don't know the exact cause yet of— again. we don't know the exact cause yet of why— again. we don't know the exact cause yet of why the — again. we don't know the exact cause yet of why the technology _ again. we don't know the exact cause yet of why the technology failed - again. we don't know the exact cause yet of why the technology failed but l yet of why the technology failed but you have _ yet of why the technology failed but you have to— yet of why the technology failed but you have to assume _ yet of why the technology failed but you have to assume they _ yet of why the technology failed but you have to assume they are - yet of why the technology failed but you have to assume they are on i yet of why the technology failed but you have to assume they are on topj you have to assume they are on top of it, _ you have to assume they are on top of it. they've — you have to assume they are on top of it, they've fixed _ you have to assume they are on top of it, they've fixed it, _ you have to assume they are on top of it, they've fixed it, they- you have to assume they are on top of it, they've fixed it, they have i of it, they've fixed it, they have found _ of it, they've fixed it, they have found a — of it, they've fixed it, they have found a way— of it, they've fixed it, they have found a way to _ of it, they've fixed it, they have found a way to deal _ of it, they've fixed it, they have found a way to deal with - of it, they've fixed it, they have found a way to deal with it i of it, they've fixed it, they have found a way to deal with it and i of it, they've fixed it, they have . found a way to deal with it and that it woffl— found a way to deal with it and that it won't happen _ found a way to deal with it and that it won't happen again. _ found a way to deal with it and that it won't happen again. also, - found a way to deal with it and that it won't happen again. also, by- found a way to deal with it and that| it won't happen again. also, by this weekend, _ it won't happen again. also, by this weekend, i— it won't happen again. also, by this weekend, i would _ it won't happen again. also, by this weekend, i would expect— it won't happen again. also, by this weekend, i would expect all- it won't happen again. also, by this weekend, i would expect all those. weekend, i would expect all those aircraft _ weekend, i would expect all those aircraft i _ weekend, i would expect all those aircraft i was — weekend, i would expect all those aircraft i was talking _ weekend, i would expect all those aircraft i was talking about - weekend, i would expect all those aircraft i was talking about to - weekend, i would expect all those aircraft i was talking about to be l aircraft i was talking about to be back— aircraft i was talking about to be back in — aircraft i was talking about to be back in place. _ aircraft i was talking about to be back in place, flying _ aircraft i was talking about to be back in place, flying in - aircraft i was talking about to be back in place, flying in their- aircraft i was talking about to be. back in place, flying in their usual scheduled — back in place, flying in their usual scheduled slots. _ back in place, flying in their usual scheduled slots. i— back in place, flying in their usual scheduled slots. i would - back in place, flying in their usual scheduled slots. i would be - scheduled slots. i would be confident, _ scheduled slots. i would be confident, as _ scheduled slots. i would be confident, as confident - scheduled slots. i would be confident, as confident as i scheduled slots. i would be . confident, as confident as you scheduled slots. i would be - confident, as confident as you can bem _ confident, as confident as you can

be... ~ . ~ confident, as confident as you can be... ~ j be... we will take confident, don't auali it, be... we will take confident, don't qualify it. that's — be... we will take confident, don't qualify it, that's great! _ be... we will take confident, don't qualify it, that's great! kelly, - qualify it, that's great! kelly, there is a question here from san bradshaw. due to fly from malaga to bristol yesterday and asks, do you think we will get reimbursed for the travel costs and hotel fees? yes. think we will get reimbursed for the travel costs and hotel fees? travel costs and hotelfees? yes. so as lona as travel costs and hotelfees? yes. so as long as they _ travel costs and hotelfees? yes. so as long as they are _ travel costs and hotelfees? yes. so as long as they are flying _ travel costs and hotelfees? yes. so as long as they are flying with - travel costs and hotelfees? yes. so as long as they are flying with an . as long as they are flying with an eu or— as long as they are flying with an eu or uk — as long as they are flying with an eu or uk based airline and as they said they— eu or uk based airline and as they said they are going back into the uk, then— said they are going back into the uk, then absolutely, yes. they should — uk, then absolutely, yes. they should be — uk, then absolutely, yes. they should be given any costs that they had to _ should be given any costs that they had to incur for any food, drinks etc, _ had to incur for any food, drinks etc, they— had to incur for any food, drinks etc, they should also be provided with a _ etc, they should also be provided with a new— etc, they should also be provided with a new flight and accommodation to look_ with a new flight and accommodation to look after them while they are stuck _ to look after them while they are stuck. what i would say is make sure that you _ stuck. what i would say is make sure that you do _ stuck. what i would say is make sure that you do keep all of those receipts— that you do keep all of those receipts and just keep talking to the airline, but under the current regulations, yes, you should absolutely be provided for those. great. _ absolutely be provided for those. great, some good news, despite the bad news of the delays and disruption go before that. let's try

and get to some of the longer term questions that have been posed by all of this disruption. doug, use your expertise to try and tell us about the system that has gone wrong, leave aside all the technical issues. is there a way now that changes could be made or should be made to try and avoid such a big, big technical issue happening again? because... the reason it was such a big issue is that the two air traffic control centres in the uk, one at swanwick and the other one at prestwick, are dealing with all of the uk airspace. so when the system had a problem, it affected the whole of the uk airspace and all of the traffic that was flying across the uk heading out for the north atlantic, etc. that is why it was

such a big disruption because it wasn'tjust an individual airport, wasn't just an individual airport, it wasn'tjust an individual airport, it was the whole of the uk airspace that was affected. these outages and this flight data processing system used to be, and talking ten or 12 years ago, relatively common. it was badly managed at the time and it really needed to be simplified and updated. that has happened and the system has run very smoothly and has been updated and updated since then. i'm quite curious about what the problem was that brought the system down because it's something that hasn't happened for probably the best part of a decade. yes. best part of a decade. yes, interesting. _ best part of a decade. yes, interesting. kelly, - best part of a decade. yes, interesting. kelly, let's- best part of a decade. yes, l interesting. kelly, let's come best part of a decade. yes, - interesting. kelly, let's come back to you because we still have so many people in the wrong place orjust getting home now, 2a hours later. as

you said, we've been pointing towards the airlines to get that compensation. people don't often feel sympathy for airlines here, but this isn't their fault, feel sympathy for airlines here, but this isn't theirfault, is it? so is there an unfair burden that they are having to kind of wear here? it’s having to kind of wear here? it's definitely not the airlines' fault and actually that does impact the compensation. so because it is classed — compensation. so because it is classed as— compensation. so because it is classed as something that is out of the airlines' control, that doesn't negate _ the airlines' control, that doesn't negate the — the airlines' control, that doesn't negate the compensation a customer could potentially apply for. unfortunately, they were hit with this yesterday, bank holiday, the worst— this yesterday, bank holiday, the worst possible time for that to hit. ithink— worst possible time for that to hit. ithihk the — worst possible time for that to hit. i think the key with this, as with everything, is communication. it's about— everything, is communication. it's about making sure that every part of that supply — about making sure that every part of that supply chain is working to ensure — that supply chain is working to ensure that the customer, whether they are _ ensure that the customer, whether they are yet to travel, whether they are at— they are yet to travel, whether they are at the _ they are yet to travel, whether they are at the airport, whether they are midway— are at the airport, whether they are midway through their trip and worrying _ midway through their trip and worrying about getting home, have the information that they need as

the information that they need as the situation progresses. but yes, airlines— the situation progresses. but yes, airlines were absolutely faced with airlines were absolutely faced with a really _ airlines were absolutely faced with a really difficult challenge on the busiest _ a really difficult challenge on the busiest weekend of the year. we reported — busiest weekend of the year. we reported on friday that it was the busiest _ reported on friday that it was the busiest departure day from the uk sihce _ busiest departure day from the uk since pre—covid and a lot of those were _ since pre—covid and a lot of those were weekend trips that would be travelling back on the sunday, monday — travelling back on the sunday, monday. so it was one of the worst possible _ monday. so it was one of the worst possible times it could have hit the airlines _ possible times it could have hit the airlines. . possible times it could have hit the airlines. , ,, ., ., , airlines. interesting. i know a bit more of a _ airlines. interesting. i know a bit more of a personal— airlines. interesting. i know a bit more of a personal point - airlines. interesting. i know a bit more of a personal point of- airlines. interesting. i know a bit| more of a personal point of view, airlines. interesting. i know a bit. more of a personal point of view, is there a mental checklist that you go through before you travel, things you kind of make sure our in order in case things go wrong like this? because part of the frustration yesterday was, for example, if there is bad weather, everyone knows, i better check whether my flight is going to take off or not because it is a storm coming. or if we have known there has been disruption for whatever reason we can kind of take precautions. but lots of people arrived at the airport yesterday with nothing wrong at all and then within minutes, this technical issue

happened and suddenly they are stranded. is there anything you can realistically do beforehand to try and make sure you are in the best position? i and make sure you are in the best osition? ~' ,., position? i think whenever something like this happens, _ position? i think whenever something like this happens, the _ position? i think whenever something like this happens, the first _ position? i think whenever something like this happens, the first thing - position? i think whenever something like this happens, the first thing i - like this happens, the first thing i always— like this happens, the first thing i always recommend to consumers is be mihdfut_ always recommend to consumers is be mindful of— always recommend to consumers is be mindful of how you are booking and who with _ mindful of how you are booking and who with if — mindful of how you are booking and who with. if you are booking with their— who with. if you are booking with their travel— who with. if you are booking with their travel agent for example, you have an _ their travel agent for example, you have an extra pair of hands there in the background working to make sure that you _ the background working to make sure that you get the information that you need — that you get the information that you need and somebody on the ground. i you need and somebody on the ground. iwoutd _ you need and somebody on the ground. iwoutd atso _ you need and somebody on the ground. i would also say make sure that you are checking your flight is operating as you would expect before you leave _ operating as you would expect before you leave home to get to the airport and before _ you leave home to get to the airport and before you leave your resort to id and before you leave your resort to go back— and before you leave your resort to go back on — and before you leave your resort to go back on your return trip. then atso _ go back on your return trip. then atso fihatty, _ go back on your return trip. then also finally, probably making sure you have — also finally, probably making sure you have all of the correct contact numbers — you have all of the correct contact numbers for your operator, for your airtihe _ numbers for your operator, for your airline. you've made sure that they have _ airline. you've made sure that they have got— airline. you've made sure that they have got your details. so a lot of challenge — have got your details. so a lot of challenge yesterday was around airtihes — challenge yesterday was around airlines not having passengers' detaits — airlines not having passengers' details to— airlines not having passengers' details to be able to contact them and give _ details to be able to contact them and give them the right information. so att— and give them the right information. so all of— and give them the right information. so all of those things are things that i_ so all of those things are things

that i would do anything that can help a _ that i would do anything that can help a consumer have an easier path when _ help a consumer have an easier path when things— help a consumer have an easier path when things like this do happen. top ti -s in a when things like this do happen. trip. tips in a frustrating situation. paul, hard and fast evidence is tricky but anecdotal evidence, is there any, when people sit at home and see events like this and are put off farm travelling from flying, just when the industry is trying to recover from the pandemic? just when the industry is trying to recoverfrom the pandemic? bill just when the industry is trying to recover from the pandemic? all the statistics and _ recover from the pandemic? all the statistics and data _ recover from the pandemic? all the statistics and data shows _ recover from the pandemic? all the statistics and data shows we - recover from the pandemic? all the statistics and data shows we are - statistics and data shows we are flying _ statistics and data shows we are flying more _ statistics and data shows we are flying more than _ statistics and data shows we are flying more than ever. _ statistics and data shows we are flying more than ever. we - statistics and data shows we are flying more than ever. we are l statistics and data shows we are - flying more than ever. we are almost back to _ flying more than ever. we are almost back to 2019— flying more than ever. we are almost back to 2019 levels _ flying more than ever. we are almost back to 2019 levels of— flying more than ever. we are almost back to 2019 levels of flights, - back to 2019 levels of flights, passenger _ back to 2019 levels of flights, passenger numbers. - back to 2019 levels of flights, passenger numbers. we - back to 2019 levels of flights, passenger numbers. we all. back to 2019 levels of flights, i passenger numbers. we all want back to 2019 levels of flights, - passenger numbers. we all want to see people. — passenger numbers. we all want to see people. family. _ passenger numbers. we all want to see people, family, travel- passenger numbers. we all want to see people, family, travel for- see people, family, travel for business. _ see people, family, travel for business, there _ see people, family, travel for business, there are _ see people, family, travel for business, there are many- see people, family, travel for- business, there are many reasons we do it _ business, there are many reasons we do it so _ business, there are many reasons we do it so it— business, there are many reasons we do it so it doesn't— business, there are many reasons we do it. so it doesn't really— business, there are many reasons we do it. so it doesn't really put- business, there are many reasons we do it. so it doesn't really put us- do it. so it doesn't really put us off. do it. so it doesn't really put us off we — do it. so it doesn't really put us off we always _ do it. so it doesn't really put us off. we always say— do it. so it doesn't really put us off. we always say we - do it. so it doesn't really put us off. we always say we may - do it. so it doesn't really put us off. we always say we may not| do it. so it doesn't really put us. off. we always say we may not fly with a _ off. we always say we may not fly with a particular _ off. we always say we may not fly with a particular airline _ off. we always say we may not fly with a particular airline again - off. we always say we may not fly with a particular airline again if. with a particular airline again if we are — with a particular airline again if we are left— with a particular airline again if we are left in— with a particular airline again if we are left in limbo _ with a particular airline again if we are left in limbo but - with a particular airline again if we are left in limbo but the - with a particular airline again if. we are left in limbo but the reality is, price _ we are left in limbo but the reality is, price is— we are left in limbo but the reality is. price is key _ we are left in limbo but the reality is, price is key. if— we are left in limbo but the reality is, price is key. if we _ we are left in limbo but the reality is, price is key. if we find - we are left in limbo but the reality is, price is key. if we find a - we are left in limbo but the reality is, price is key. if we find a good i is, price is key. if we find a good price _ is, price is key. if we find a good price for— is, price is key. if we find a good price for a — is, price is key. if we find a good price for a flight, _ is, price is key. if we find a good price for a flight, even— is, price is key. if we find a good price for a flight, even if- is, price is key. if we find a good price for a flight, even if it's - price for a flight, even if it's with— price for a flight, even if it's with an _ price for a flight, even if it's with an airline _ price for a flight, even if it's with an airline that - price for a flight, even if it's with an airline that has -

price for a flight, even if it's with an airline that has let l price for a flight, even if it'si with an airline that has let us price for a flight, even if it's - with an airline that has let us down in the _ with an airline that has let us down in the past. — with an airline that has let us down in the past, we _ with an airline that has let us down in the past, we will— with an airline that has let us down in the past, we will go _ with an airline that has let us down in the past, we will go with - with an airline that has let us down in the past, we will go with it. - with an airline that has let us down in the past, we will go with it. so. in the past, we will go with it. so no, there — in the past, we will go with it. so no, there is— in the past, we will go with it. so no, there is still— in the past, we will go with it. so no, there is still a _ in the past, we will go with it. so no, there is still a massive - no, there is still a massive temptation— no, there is still a massive temptation to _ no, there is still a massive temptation to travel- no, there is still a massive temptation to travel and l no, there is still a massive. temptation to travel and it's important _ temptation to travel and it's important economically - temptation to travel and it's important economically that temptation to travel and it's . important economically that we temptation to travel and it's - important economically that we do, not important economically that we do, hotiust_ important economically that we do, hotiust for— important economically that we do, not just foriobs _ important economically that we do, not just forjobs but _ important economically that we do, not just forjobs but to _ important economically that we do, not just forjobs but to keep - important economically that we do, not just forjobs but to keep the - not just forjobs but to keep the world _ not just forjobs but to keep the world economy— not just forjobs but to keep the world economy turning. - not just forjobs but to keep the world economy turning. interesting. kell , i world economy turning. interesting. kelly. i want — world economy turning. interesting. kelly. i want to _ world economy turning. interesting. kelly, i want to come _ world economy turning. interesting. kelly, i want to come back - world economy turning. interesting. kelly, i want to come back to - world economy turning. interesting. kelly, i want to come back to you i kelly, i want to come back to you with some more viewer questions. it's an interesting one. someone here talking about flying with easyjet, sitting on the tarmac and then that flights being cancelled. they are saying they are not entitled to compensation. just waiting for a bit more detail to come through on that specific incident. as we wait for that, is there anything that you can add to that? ., ., ., that? there were a few unfortunate incidents like _ that? there were a few unfortunate incidents like this _ that? there were a few unfortunate incidents like this yesterday - that? there were a few unfortunate incidents like this yesterday and - incidents like this yesterday and those _ incidents like this yesterday and those were the people that were in the eye _ those were the people that were in the eye of— those were the people that were in the eye of the storm, almost. these are the _ the eye of the storm, almost. these are the people that had perhaps boarded — are the people that had perhaps boarded the flight and then the outage — boarded the flight and then the outage happened and they had to be off—loaded. so again, like i mentioned earlier, this is classed as a technical glitch and because it is outside — as a technical glitch and because it is outside of the airline's control,

then— is outside of the airline's control, then the — is outside of the airline's control, then the consumers generally wouldh't _ then the consumers generally wouldn't be entitled to any compensation for this. what i would say to— compensation for this. what i would say to those consumers is check your travel _ say to those consumers is check your travel insurance, see what you are covered _ travel insurance, see what you are covered for— travel insurance, see what you are covered for because there might be alternative — covered for because there might be alternative ways that you can seek some _ alternative ways that you can seek some compensation. and alternative ways that you can seek some compensation.— some compensation. and i'm 'ust auoin to some compensation. and i'm 'ust going to read fl some compensation. and i'm 'ust going to read this, i some compensation. and i'm 'ust going to read this, kelly, i some compensation. and i'm 'ust going to read this, kelly, to h some compensation. and i'mjust going to read this, kelly, to you. | some compensation. and i'm just| going to read this, kelly, to you. i don't know if there is an answer but this is clearly... this is a story that we all can empathise with. we don't want to be in this position. michael has written in and said: i have now had two flights cancelled by british airways since saturday, including one yesterday, where we were sat on the flight for six hours with just pretzels and water. the airline not answering the phone or responding to messages online. i can't rebook through the website but there is a flight available tonight. i don't believe british airways will reimburse me if i go ahead and book it myself but is it worth going to

the airport to see if their staff there can put me on a flight? that is a tough call, kelly? it is there can put me on a flight? that is a tough call, kelly?— is a tough call, kelly? it is and generally _ is a tough call, kelly? it is and generally what _ is a tough call, kelly? it is and generally what we _ is a tough call, kelly? it is and generally what we will - is a tough call, kelly? it is and generally what we will say - is a tough call, kelly? it is and generally what we will say is l is a tough call, kelly? it is and . generally what we will say is don't clo- generally what we will say is don't clog up _ generally what we will say is don't clog up the airports because that doesn't _ clog up the airports because that doesn't help with the supply chain issues _ doesn't help with the supply chain issues. the reality is if you are a consumer— issues. the reality is if you are a consumer and if you are in resort or stuck, _ consumer and if you are in resort or stuck, then— consumer and if you are in resort or stuck, then actually if you are struggling to get through on the phone _ struggling to get through on the phone lines it can be a good idea to id phone lines it can be a good idea to go to— phone lines it can be a good idea to go to the _ phone lines it can be a good idea to go to the airport, where you know there _ go to the airport, where you know there will— go to the airport, where you know there will be people on the ground to talk— there will be people on the ground to talk to — there will be people on the ground to talk to. sol there will be people on the ground to talk to. so i will try and exhaust _ to talk to. so i will try and exhaust all of the other options first and — exhaust all of the other options first and if you are getting nojoy with those, then it might be worth going _ with those, then it might be worth going to _ with those, then it might be worth going to the airport just to see if there _ going to the airport just to see if there is— going to the airport just to see if there is a — going to the airport just to see if there is a person there that you can talk to _ there is a person there that you can talk to go — there is a person there that you can talk to go to— there is a person there that you can talk to. go to the booking desk, see if they— talk to. go to the booking desk, see if they can _ talk to. go to the booking desk, see if they can put you on that flight if they can put you on that flight if you _ if they can put you on that flight if you can — if they can put you on that flight if you can see there is still availability on there. thank you very much _ availability on there. thank you very much for— availability on there. thank you very much for that _ availability on there. thank you very much for that question - availability on there. thank you | very much for that question and availability on there. thank you i very much for that question and a miserable story to go with it, unfortunately. let's go back to some of the technicals here. john wants to know, was air traffic control

hacked or was there a cyber attack? doug? hacked or was there a cyber attack? dou: ? ., �* , hacked or was there a cyber attack? dou~? ., �* _., doug? no. i'm very positive about that. i'm doug? no. i'm very positive about that- m not— doug? no. i'm very positive about that. i'm not going _ doug? no. i'm very positive about that. i'm not going into _ doug? no. i'm very positive about that. i'm not going into the - that. i'm not going into the operational security of the system but the systems are very secure and there have been no incidents like that, as far as i know, anywhere in the world. so the system is safe. interesting, doug. thank you very much. you chose your words very carefully there and we appreciate that, we get the message and we understand. ijust got that, we get the message and we understand. i just got another message coming in from a viewer. i'm wondering if you can help, and easyjet flight was on was due to fly from belfast to bristol yesterday, around 6.00 in the evening. status of this, still delayed, not cancelled. 50 still delayed not cancelled, so passengers cannot

access any of the easyjet app or functionality for rebooking flights or hotels. have easyjet got a duty of care to keep these things updated, kelly?— of care to keep these things updated, kelly? of care to keep these things udated, kell ? , , ., updated, kelly? yes, they have. i think like paul— updated, kelly? yes, they have. i think like paul mentioned - updated, kelly? yes, they have. i think like paul mentioned earlier, j think like paul mentioned earlier, the battle — think like paul mentioned earlier, the battle that we have at the moment — the battle that we have at the moment is that some of the flights, some _ moment is that some of the flights, some of— moment is that some of the flights, some of the aircraft are in the wrong — some of the aircraft are in the wrong locations, so there is not an intention— wrong locations, so there is not an intention to — wrong locations, so there is not an intention to cancel the flight completely. it is still a delayed flight, — completely. it is still a delayed flight, so — completely. it is still a delayed flight, so they are still planning on operating it as soon as possible. in on operating it as soon as possible. in the _ on operating it as soon as possible. in the meantime, yes, they do absolutely have a duty of care to look after — absolutely have a duty of care to look after those consumers, both in terms _ look after those consumers, both in terms of— look after those consumers, both in terms of communicating with them and also providing for them if they need accommodation, if they need food, things— accommodation, if they need food, things like — accommodation, if they need food, things like that, while they are waiting — things like that, while they are waiting for their status to be updated _ waiting for their status to be updated on that flight. this is where — updated on that flight. this is where that communication piece is so important. _ where that communication piece is so important, to make sure that the consumer— important, to make sure that the consumer is understanding where the airlines— consumer is understanding where the airlines are _ consumer is understanding where the airlines are at, where that flight is at, _ airlines are at, where that flight is at. but — airlines are at, where that flight

is at, but that is of course very challenging with the amount of cancellations and movement that we saw yesterday. gk. cancellations and movement that we saw yesterday-— saw yesterday. 0k. doug, kelly and paul saw yesterday. 0k. doug, kelly and paul. thank— saw yesterday. 0k. doug, kelly and paul. thank you _ saw yesterday. 0k. doug, kelly and paul, thank you all _ saw yesterday. 0k. doug, kelly and paul, thank you all very _ saw yesterday. 0k. doug, kelly and paul, thank you all very much. - saw yesterday. 0k. doug, kelly and paul, thank you all very much. we i paul, thank you all very much. we hope we helped answer some of your questions. thank you. you are watching bbc news. i'm lewis vaughanjones. thank you for your company. i want to bring you a bit of breaking news out of germany. germany drop the sex assault probe into rammstein front man. some of their background was german police

opened an investigation into sexual assault allegations against the front man from the metal band rammstein. a number of women with allegations, but we are just getting this breaking news from afp news agency that germany has dropped that sex assault probe into the rammstein singer, front man. plenty more details of that on the website as always. as we get any more updates from germany, we will bring them to you. next come here in the uk... a critical report into a mental health trust which lost track of patient deaths was edited to remove blame from its leadership. injune, auditors grant thornton revealed how the norfolk and suffolk foundation trust had failed to record thousands of deaths properly. but bbc newsnight has found multiple references of "poor", "weak" and "inadequate" governance

were removed before publication. the trust and auditors say it was part of a fact checking exercise. nikki fox reports. at a time when demand for mental health services is at an all time high, one nhs trust stands accused of being too focused on managing its reputation. we came here when we heard the news that tim had died. caroline aldridge's son tim died while he was waiting for mental health help. ijust sat there and tried to think... how would life ever be the same again? bereaved relatives like caroline believe more than 1,000 patients of the norfolk and suffolk mental health trust died avoidable deaths. because the figure was disputed by the trust, local nhs bosses brought in auditors grant thornton.

they produced a highly critical report. but the bbc can reveal before publication it was radically changed, reducing blame on executives. 15 mentions of poor, inadequate or weak governance were removed. a draft version read... while the published version said... references to a lack of transparency and a culture of fear were also removed. i think it's despicable. i think it's a real betrayal of their bereaved relatives, of their service users, their carers, their staff. we've seen year after year, poor governance and this sort of cover up culture where nobody accepts any responsibility for their actions. hi, rob. nice to meet you. the trust says its standard practice to check the factual

accuracy of draft reports. but according to the parliamentary and health service ombudsman, the changes go way beyond what he would normally expect. the differences in the texts at key points are so huge that this is not just a bureaucratic drafting issue. this is still quite a damning report. absolutely. but at the heart of the health service is public trust. if people are not told the truth about what has happened, then their relationship with the health service will be in further decline than it already is. the report authors grant thornton told us...

they added... "the final report was entirely independent and robust." the trust said it provided further information to ensure the report was evidence based and it had been open and honest. i'm truly, truly sorry to the families and friends of all of those loved ones. the trust's executives have apologised for ignoring bereaved relatives who said they'd lost count of patient deaths. but those like caroline feel until there's accountability at the top, the scale of the mental health crisis will never be known. nikky fox, bbc news. live now to nikki fox. nikki, this paints a picture of an nhs trust that seems to be prioritising reputational management. is this something that's widespread? with this report, it does, doesn't it? we spoke to a number of staff that work at the trust and they say

this kind of culture appears to be seeping in to the day—to—day running of things as well. they have told us that some of the things that should be raised as safety concerns, things like staffing shortages and patience' mental health appointments being cancelled are not being flagged. they also say, some of them, that they are being encouraged to blame other emergency services when failures happen. so why is this happening? well, they say that a lot of this is down to the pressure that mental health services are under. a doubling of referrals in children's and young people's mental health since before the pandemic, and that isjust one example since before the pandemic, and that is just one example where certain sections of services have seen a massive rise in demand. some staff say they just haven't massive rise in demand. some staff say theyjust haven't got massive rise in demand. some staff say they just haven't got the massive rise in demand. some staff say theyjust haven't got the time to fill in the paperwork for these kinds of things, when they are

trying to deal with so many people in crisis and they believe that it's this kind of pressure and a lack of any solution to it that is fostering this culture. nhs england says it is putting £2.3 million a year extra into mental health but some people argue that it is also the staffing thatis argue that it is also the staffing that is the problem. {lilia argue that it is also the staffing that is the problem.— argue that it is also the staffing that is the problem. 0k, thank you ve much that is the problem. ok, thank you very much for— that is the problem. 0k, thank you very much for that. _ i want to take you to polar now, some distressing breaking news from poland we are just receiving here from adam easton. ia people have died from a legion or outbreak in poland. ia people have died and 159 are poland. 1a people have died and 159 are in hospital after an outbreak of legionnaires' disease in the south—eastern city. the polish health ministry says the bacteria

most likely entered the city's water supply system but it is not clear why. the bacteria entered the city's water supply system. no evidence of sabotage at this time but 1a people have died. 159 in hospital and all the people who have died were also suffering from other illnesses as well and the water supply system has been decontaminated and additional chlorine added to the water. those are the latest details we are getting from poland. we will bring you more on that as we get it. for the moment, it is time here to take a quick pause and let's get the weather with carol. hello again. for the next couple of days, we're looking at a mixture of bright spells, sunny spells and some showers. worth pointing out, though, today, pollen levels across much of england are going to be high. so we're talking weeds at this time of year. now, what we have today is low pressure in charge of our weather. this front wrapped all the way

around it is producing some showers, heaviest across the north of scotland, closest to the centre of the low pressure and it's all slowly slipping southwards as we go through the course of today. so our first weather front continuing to slip south, rejuvenating, producing some heavier rain in the afternoon across parts of wales, the midlands, the home counties and east anglia and the weather front across scotland also slipping south. now, in between for northern england, northern ireland, there'll be some sunny spells and fewer showers and in light winds, our temperatures 1a in the north to 21 as we push down towards the south. now through this evening and overnight, ourfirst front continues to head south eastwards before clearing. our second one pushes into northern england, north wales, northern ireland, bringing some showers, but follow the curl round, we're going to see some more showers across the north of scotland. but there will also be a fair bit of clear sky tonight, so it's going to be a cooler night than last night, particularly so in the countryside. so tomorrow, a ridge of high pressure builds across us, so things are quite quiet in terms

of the weather. there will be areas of cloud bubbling up through the day, producing some showers. you might hear the odd rumble of thunder, for example, in the afternoon in east anglia and the odd sharp shower here. temperatures, 15 to about 20 degrees north to south. so just down a degree or so. then into thursday, we've got this area of low pressure with its fronts coming in from the atlantic. now, the northern extent of this is still open to a bit of question, but this is what we think at the moment. 50 across scotland and eastern england, it will start off dry with some sunny spells, but our fronts coming in from the west, will push northwards and eastwards introducing thicker cloud and some rain. the heaviest rain will be across southern england. and you could hear the odd rumble of thunder in southern coastal counties. temperatures 1a to 19 degrees, so, again, slipping just that little bit more. and then as we move on into friday, there'll be low cloud, mist and fog to clear from the south and also the far north of scotland. in between, there'll be sunshine and showers and temperatures climbing a little bit at the weekend.

live from london. this is bbc news. pakistan's high court suspends former prime minister imran khan's conviction on corruption charges. passengers face days of disruption after problems with the uk's air traffic control system cause the cancellation of more than 1,500 flights.

every regional leader in spain's football federation calls on its president to resign — after he kissed a player at the women's world cup. the former uk conservative cabinet minister nadine dorries formally quits as a member of parliament. welcome to the programme. we start in pakistan where the high court has suspended former prime minister imran khan's recent conviction on corruption charges. mr khan has been in prison since he was sentenced to three years on august 5th — on charges of unlawfully selling state gifts during his tenure as prime minister. as a result of the conviction, he was also barred for five years from contesting elections.

the suspension of the conviction does not necessarily mean that