today by a former senior criticisms today by a former senior civil servant of a former chancellor, for not doing stuff soon to sort it out. the former chancellor is rishi sunak. the current chancellorjeremy hunt has promised to spend what it takes to sort out this problem. but to do that, will they take what is spent on the education budget from the education budget already? the expectation is that there will be no new money. notjust a concrete problem, asbestos, dilapidated building stock, all needing much more than a lick of paint. 38% of school buildings in england are believed to be past their estimated design life. we are where we are, but why? that's another aspect to this. it means 700,000 pupils in england are learning in buildings which require major rebuilding or refurbishment. parents, teachers, senior leaders, builders, what have

you got to say? everybody is welcome. your phone or needs you. get in touch. text and call. the text messages are coming in already. now the news. former top civil servant at the department for education says the budget for repairing schools with failing concrete was halved. jonathan slater said it was frustrating that funding was only given a50 schools after a by rishi sunak. the government says it will do whatever it takes to fix the problem. keir starmer is expected to reshuffle his cabinet today, although most senior roles will be unchanged. former civil servant sue

gray is set to begin her role as chief of staff. the first supplies of the weight loss jab wegovy is arriving in the uk. it will be available via weight loss management clinics. and huddersfield and manchester victoria are the railway stations in britain with the highest rates of cancelled trains this year. network rail says it is working with train operators to make improvements. the state of our schools, and as i said there, as well, who knows what other public buildings. hospitals, court buildings. what do you see? what do you want to say? get in touch. the chancellorjeremy hunt did a big interview yesterday with

laura kuenssberg, and he said the government was undertaking an exhaustive programme of survey in schools, but admitted, this is key, we might find new information in the weeks and months ahead. is this a tip of an iceberg? who knows. some people have their suspicions it is a topic we will be returning to again and again. we will be talking about portacabin primary is and who knows what else. let's speak to some guests in a second, and hopefully your good self. 0ne bbc breakfast, the education secretary gillian keegan was asked by sally nugent whether the costs would be covered by new money or it would come from existing budgets. 50. by new money or it would come from existing budgets.— existing budgets. so, it will be from a combination _ existing budgets. so, it will be from a combination of- existing budgets. so, it will be - from a combination of department for education budgets and otherfunding. every review, we get an allocation

for building maintenance and for capitalfunding. 50 for building maintenance and for capital funding.— capital funding. so it is from a departmental— capital funding. so it is from a departmental budget? - capital funding. so it is from a departmental budget? so - capital funding. so it is from a departmental budget? so you | capital funding. so it is from a - departmental budget? so you are not spending money on something else? what do you think you might have to cut in order to pay for this? h0. what do you think you might have to cut in order to pay for this?- cut in order to pay for this? no, it is therefore _ cut in order to pay for this? no, it is therefore that _ cut in order to pay for this? no, it is therefore that purpose, - cut in order to pay for this? no, it is therefore that purpose, it - cut in order to pay for this? no, it is therefore that purpose, it is - is therefore that purpose, it is therefore building maintenance and for rebuilding schools, or for building new schools. so we will be rebuilding some of these schools. 0ne rebuilding some of these schools. one of the things that we have done, and our school rebuilding programme is very different from anything that has gone before, is the condition of the buildings is actually one of the number one criteria for how we prioritise which ones get rebuilt, which ones get refurbished, etc. let's go straight to some callers and get those text messages in. tell us where you are from, give us your name. that would be great. then in hungary, david and colchester. —— ben in haringey. where are you coming from? i

ben in haringey. where are you coming from?— ben in haringey. where are you coming from? ben in haringey. where are you comin: from? ., . , ., , coming from? i am in haringey, i was a buildin: coming from? i am in haringey, i was a building manager— coming from? i am in haringey, i was a building manager for _ coming from? i am in haringey, i was a building manager for 40 _ coming from? i am in haringey, i was a building manager for 40 years - a building managerfor a0 years there. i have now retired. but i still do agency work. the building schools for the future programme was cancelled by the conservative government as soon as they got in power, way back, because the building schools for the future programme was a programme to refurbish all of the schools within the country. and it was stopped by the country. and it was stopped by the conservative government, one of the conservative government, one of the first acts that they did. that hasn't helped the situation with the raac concrete. at one stage in my career, i was in charge of maintenance, not so much maintenance, not so much maintenance, but caretakers and cleaners, 320 of them. i used to advise schools that had work to do.

and the cuts that were brought in by osborne and the rest, it removed most of the budget. we ended up with a situation where there wasn't any money to refurbish schools. therefore, the cancellation of the programme fact at that. and also, i was a governorfor 35 programme fact at that. and also, i was a governor for 35 years, it in two main secondary schools in the borough. it's a familiar refrain i heard from the minister a minute ago about budgets. because we were always told up until recently, we were always told we have given the teachers and support staff, all of the staff, they always mention teachers, but the support staff in schools as well, they had to be paid rises, so therefore they said, well, you have to take it out of your own budget. so the schools were handed over from local authorities at one

stage in order to have schools run themselves, to a certain extent, they were given money, the budget that the local authorities had, they were running themselves. the people running the schools were head teachers, teachers and academics. they did not have the experience to deal with maintenance. therefore, when there were cuts to be had, it was always where they went, because the main purpose, and it was laudable, their main purpose was to educate children. it wasn't to do with maintenance of the building. stay right where you are, because evansis stay right where you are, because evans is with us, who spoke to rachel on friday, but the situation has changed somewhat. she is a head teacher at parkes primary in leicester. good morning to you, caz. really interesting stuff from ben. i

want to qualify it, because the chancellorjeremy hunt was asked about whether this was a result of austerity in that interview with laura kuenssberg, and he denied it. but others will say, you know, maintenance budgets over the years have been a very soft target for cuts. anyway, listening to ben, you were nodding, why were you agreeing so vigorously? ben were nodding, why were you agreeing so vigorously?— so vigorously? ben talked about rebuildin: so vigorously? ben talked about rebuilding schools _ so vigorously? ben talked about rebuilding schools for _ so vigorously? ben talked about rebuilding schools for the - so vigorously? ben talked about| rebuilding schools for the future programme, which was cut, a labour policy— programme, which was cut, a labour policy which — programme, which was cut, a labour policy which was cut. quite a lot of our secondary schools within the area _ our secondary schools within the area have — our secondary schools within the area have been rebuilt, and that is really— area have been rebuilt, and that is really good, as we sit here at the moment, — really good, as we sit here at the moment, because that means we havent— moment, because that means we haven't got it in as many schools as we could _ haven't got it in as many schools as we could have had without the policx — we could have had without the policy. certainly from listening to radio _ policy. certainly from listening to radio four — policy. certainly from listening to radio four this morning, the civil servant. — radio four this morning, the civil servant, jonathan slater, he was on and was _ servant, jonathan slater, he was on and was saying that they knew about raac after that point, they knew that up _ raac after that point, they knew that up to — raac after that point, they knew that up to 400 schools needed rebuilding, and the government decided — rebuilding, and the government decided to say, here is the funding

for 400. _ decided to say, here is the funding for 400, that is that. i think what he is _ for 400, that is that. i think what he is saying — for 400, that is that. i think what he is saying is quite right. he was talkin: he is saying is quite right. he was talking about _ he is saying is quite right. he was talking about the _ he is saying is quite right. he was talking about the fact _ he is saying is quite right. he was talking about the fact that - he is saying is quite right. he was talking about the fact that they i talking about the fact that they wanted to deal with 100 per annum, given the financial priorities they had. his accusation is that the chancellor, rishi sunak, cut that to 50. i chancellor, rishi sunak, cut that to 50. ., ., ., ., 50. i would not actually have that information. _ 50. i would not actually have that information, that _ 50. i would not actually have that information, that is _ 50. i would not actually have that information, that is something i 50. i would not actually have that information, that is something to j information, that is something to ask somebody who is more in the know _ ask somebody who is more in the know. ., , ., ask somebody who is more in the know. . , ., , know. that is what he said this mornin: know. that is what he said this morning full— know. that is what he said this morning full stops _ know. that is what he said this morning full stops if _ know. that is what he said this morning full stops if that - know. that is what he said this morning full stops if that is - know. that is what he said this i morning full stops if that is what he said, i would _ morning full stops if that is what he said, i would know— morning full stops if that is what he said, i would know those - morning full stops if that is what - he said, i would know those figures. i know— he said, i would know those figures. i know i_ he said, i would know those figures. i know i am — he said, i would know those figures. i know i am sitting in a primary school— i know i am sitting in a primary school where i was told in april that we — school where i was told in april that we had raac, the first notification that the school knew that we — notification that the school knew that we had raac, and very quickly we had _ that we had raac, and very quickly we had an— that we had raac, and very quickly we had an intrusive survey. an intrusive — we had an intrusive survey. an intrusive survey, for those people who don't— intrusive survey, for those people who don't realise this, it means they— who don't realise this, it means they take — who don't realise this, it means they take down all of the ceiling tiles in— they take down all of the ceiling tiles in order to look at the raac. the situation at that point was, if your— the situation at that point was, if your film — the situation at that point was, if your film ago was in good condition, your film ago was in good condition, you were _ your film ago was in good condition, you were 0k— your film ago was in good condition, you were 0k to stay open. but you would — you were 0k to stay open. but you

would go _ you were 0k to stay open. but you would go on — you were 0k to stay open. but you would go on a five year time span of when _ would go on a five year time span of when that— would go on a five year time span of when that would then be replaced. because _ when that would then be replaced. because it — when that would then be replaced. because it was considered safe. in our situation, the situation was as soon _ our situation, the situation was as soon as— our situation, the situation was as soon as they took off the ceiling tiles, _ soon as they took off the ceiling tiles, they— soon as they took off the ceiling tiles, they could see that the raac was critical, under school closure of the _ was critical, under school closure of the areas _ was critical, under school closure of the areas was done within 12 hours — of the areas was done within 12 hours. ~ . . ., ., ~ ,, ., ,': :: :: hours. according to mr slater, 300 400 schools, _ hours. according to mr slater, 300 400 schools, you _ hours. according to mr slater, 300 400 schools, you mentioned - hours. according to mr slater, 300| 400 schools, you mentioned them, a00 schools, you mentioned them, 300-a00 a00 schools, you mentioned them, 300—a00 schools needed to be repaired per because of the schools being built with post—war concrete. they were hoping they would get 100-200, they they were hoping they would get 100—200, they say the 100 was cut to 50 per year by the chancellor rishi sunak. that is what he says. we will see what rishi sunak says in response. now, we have the recruitment editor at tes, this was

a problem a long time in the making, and we are notjust talking about raac but other manifestations of dilapidation. it’s raac but other manifestations of dilapidation— dilapidation. it's really apparent when ou dilapidation. it's really apparent when you read _ dilapidation. it's really apparent when you read the _ dilapidation. it's really apparent when you read the survey - dilapidation. it's really apparent when you read the survey that l dilapidation. it's really apparent i when you read the survey that was sent out _ when you read the survey that was sent out to — when you read the survey that was sent out to teachers _ when you read the survey that was sent out to teachers at _ when you read the survey that was sent out to teachers at schools i when you read the survey that was. sent out to teachers at schools they identified _ sent out to teachers at schools they identified as — sent out to teachers at schools they identified as being _ sent out to teachers at schools they identified as being at— sent out to teachers at schools they identified as being at risk— sent out to teachers at schools they identified as being at risk of- identified as being at risk of having — identified as being at risk of having raac_ identified as being at risk of having raac in _ identified as being at risk of having raac in their- identified as being at risk of. having raac in their buildings. identified as being at risk of- having raac in their buildings. when you read _ having raac in their buildings. when you read the — having raac in their buildings. when you read the instructions— having raac in their buildings. when you read the instructions to - having raac in their buildings. when you read the instructions to the i you read the instructions to the caretakers— you read the instructions to the caretakers when— you read the instructions to the caretakers when they _ you read the instructions to the caretakers when they are - you read the instructions to the | caretakers when they are meant you read the instructions to the i caretakers when they are meant to you read the instructions to the - caretakers when they are meant to go around _ caretakers when they are meant to go around the _ caretakers when they are meant to go around the school _ caretakers when they are meant to go around the school and _ caretakers when they are meant to go around the school and identify- caretakers when they are meant to go around the school and identify the i around the school and identify the raac, _ around the school and identify the raac, there — around the school and identify the raac, there are _ around the school and identify the raac, there are so— around the school and identify the raac, there are so me _ around the school and identify the raac, there are so me references around the school and identify the i raac, there are so me references to asbestos, _ raac, there are so me references to asbestos, panelling, _ raac, there are so me references to asbestos, panelling, the _ raac, there are so me references to asbestos, panelling, the fact- raac, there are so me references to asbestos, panelling, the fact that i asbestos, panelling, the fact that it could _ asbestos, panelling, the fact that it could he — asbestos, panelling, the fact that it could he in _ asbestos, panelling, the fact that it could be in the _ asbestos, panelling, the fact that it could be in the ceiling, - asbestos, panelling, the fact that it could be in the ceiling, where l it could be in the ceiling, where there _ it could be in the ceiling, where there is— it could be in the ceiling, where there is a — it could be in the ceiling, where there is a flat _ it could be in the ceiling, where there is a flat roof— it could be in the ceiling, where there is a flat roof and - it could be in the ceiling, where there is a flat roof and it - it could be in the ceiling, where there is a flat roof and it has i it could be in the ceiling, wherel there is a flat roof and it has not been _ there is a flat roof and it has not been properly— there is a flat roof and it has not been properly maintained. - there is a flat roof and it has not been properly maintained. we . been properly maintained. we are talking _ been properly maintained. we are talking about _ been properly maintained. we are talking about school _ been properly maintained. we are talking about school buildings i been properly maintained. we are| talking about school buildings that have been— talking about school buildings that have been neglected _ talking about school buildings that have been neglected for— talking about school buildings that have been neglected for years i talking about school buildings that have been neglected for years and decades — have been neglected for years and decades part— have been neglected for years and decades. part of— have been neglected for years and decades. part of the _ have been neglected for years and decades. part of the number- have been neglected for years and decades. part of the number of. decades. part of the number of schools— decades. part of the number of schools that _ decades. part of the number of schools that are _ decades. part of the number of schools that are affected, i decades. part of the number of schools that are affected, this. schools that are affected, this mysterious _ schools that are affected, this mysterious list _ schools that are affected, this mysterious list of— schools that are affected, this mysterious list of schools i schools that are affected, thisj mysterious list of schools that schools that are affected, this i mysterious list of schools that the government — mysterious list of schools that the government won't _ mysterious list of schools that the government won't release, - mysterious list of schools that the government won't release, it's i government won't release, it's partly— government won't release, it's partly because _ government won't release, it's partly because they _ government won't release, it's partly because they don't - government won't release, it's| partly because they don't really have _ partly because they don't really have a — partly because they don't really have a good _ partly because they don't really have a good grasp _ partly because they don't really have a good grasp of— partly because they don't really have a good grasp of how- partly because they don't really have a good grasp of how many schools — have a good grasp of how many schools have _ have a good grasp of how many schools have got _ have a good grasp of how many schools have got a _ have a good grasp of how many schools have got a raac- have a good grasp of how many schools have got a raac in i have a good grasp of how many schools have got a raac in it. i have a good grasp of how many. schools have got a raac in it. to have a good grasp of how many schools have got a raac in it. to be fair, schools have got a raac in it. to be fair. grainne. _ schools have got a raac in it. to be fair, grainne, they _ schools have got a raac in it. to be fair, grainne, they don't _ schools have got a raac in it. to be fair, grainne, they don't want i fair, grainne, they don't want

people to panic unnecessarily, so there are two sides to this. there are very considered people in the civil service saying, hang on, we can't be panic among —— pannek bungalows. tote can't be panic among -- pannek bungalows-— can't be panic among -- pannek bunralows. ~ ., ~ ., ., ., , bungalows. we need to know how many schools are affected, _ bungalows. we need to know how many schools are affected, school— bungalows. we need to know how many schools are affected, school has - bungalows. we need to know how many schools are affected, school has not i schools are affected, school has not been started — schools are affected, school has not been started properly _ schools are affected, school has not been started properly yet. - schools are affected, school has not been started properly yet. you i schools are affected, school has not been started properly yet. you are i been started properly yet. you are not seeing — been started properly yet. you are not seeing parents _ been started properly yet. you are not seeing parents every - been started properly yet. you are not seeing parents every day, i been started properly yet. you are not seeing parents every day, it's| not seeing parents every day, it's difficult _ not seeing parents every day, it's difficult to — not seeing parents every day, it's difficult to get _ not seeing parents every day, it's difficult to get communications i not seeing parents every day, it's i difficult to get communications out, you are _ difficult to get communications out, you are relying _ difficult to get communications out, you are relying on— difficult to get communications out, you are relying on e—mails- difficult to get communications out, you are relying on e—mails and i difficult to get communications out, you are relying on e—mails and as. difficult to get communications out, | you are relying on e—mails and as to communicate — you are relying on e—mails and as to communicate quite _ you are relying on e—mails and as to communicate quite important- communicate quite important information _ communicate quite important information. i— communicate quite important information. i can— communicate quite important information. i can see - communicate quite important information. i can see the i communicate quite important- information. i can see the argument for demanding — information. i can see the argument for demanding a _ information. i can see the argument for demanding a list, _ information. i can see the argument for demanding a list, but— information. i can see the argument for demanding a list, but there i information. i can see the argument for demanding a list, but there is i information. i can see the argument for demanding a list, but there is a i for demanding a list, but there is a worry— for demanding a list, but there is a worry about — for demanding a list, but there is a worry about fearmongering - for demanding a list, but there is a worry about fearmongering and i for demanding a list, but there is a worry about fearmongering and try| for demanding a list, but there is a i worry about fearmongering and try to keep control — worry about fearmongering and try to keep control of — worry about fearmongering and try to keep control of the _ worry about fearmongering and try to keep control of the story. _ worry about fearmongering and try to keep control of the story. when i worry about fearmongering and try to keep control of the story. when we . keep control of the story. when we talk about — keep control of the story. when we talk about the _ keep control of the story. when we talk about the number— keep control of the story. when we talk about the number of— keep control of the story. when we talk about the number of schools . talk about the number of schools affected. — talk about the number of schools affected. we _ talk about the number of schools affected, we know— talk about the number of schools affected, we know we _ talk about the number of schools affected, we know we have - talk about the number of schools affected, we know we have the l talk about the number of schools i affected, we know we have the ten year school — affected, we know we have the ten year school rebuilding _ affected, we know we have the ten year school rebuilding programme | year school rebuilding programme that the _ year school rebuilding programme that the conservative _ year school rebuilding programme that the conservative governmentj that the conservative government launched, — that the conservative government launched, and _ that the conservative government launched, and we _ that the conservative government launched, and we are _ that the conservative government launched, and we are three - that the conservative government launched, and we are three years| launched, and we are three years into it _ launched, and we are three years into it as— launched, and we are three years into it as of— launched, and we are three years into it. as of march _ launched, and we are three years into it. as of march this - launched, and we are three years into it. as of march this year, i launched, and we are three years| into it. as of march this year, they were _ into it. as of march this year, they were meant—

into it. as of march this year, they were meant to _ into it. as of march this year, they were meant to have _ into it. as of march this year, they were meant to have 83 _ into it. as of march this year, they were meant to have 83 contracts i were meant to have 83 contracts already— were meant to have 83 contracts already undertaken, _ were meant to have 83 contracts already undertaken, that - were meant to have 83 contracts already undertaken, that was i were meant to have 83 contracts i already undertaken, that was their target _ already undertaken, that was their target as— already undertaken, that was their target~ as of— already undertaken, that was their target. as of march, _ already undertaken, that was their target. as of march, they - already undertaken, that was their target. as of march, they only- already undertaken, that was their target. as of march, they only hadj target. as of march, they only had 24. target. as of march, they only had 24 they— target. as of march, they only had 24 they were _ target. as of march, they only had 24. they were meant _ target. as of march, they only had 24. they were meant to _ target. as of march, they only had 24. they were meant to have i target. as of march, they only had 24. they were meant to have four| 24. they were meant to have four building _ 24. they were meant to have four building projects _ 24. they were meant to have four building projects already- 24. they were meant to have four i building projects already completed, they've _ building projects already completed, they've only— building projects already completed, they've only got _ building projects already completed, they've only got one. _ building projects already completed, they've only got one. what - building projects already completed, they've only got one. what we - building projects already completed, they've only got one. what we are i they've only got one. what we are seeing _ they've only got one. what we are seeing today— they've only got one. what we are seeing today is _ they've only got one. what we are seeing today is forecast _ they've only got one. what we are seeing today is forecast from i seeing today is forecast from several — seeing today is forecast from several years _ seeing today is forecast from several years before - seeing today is forecast from several years before because seeing today is forecast from - several years before because they knew _ several years before because they knew there — several years before because they knew there was _ several years before because they knew there was going _ several years before because they knew there was going to - several years before because they knew there was going to be - several years before because they knew there was going to be an- knew there was going to be an initial— knew there was going to be an initial school _ knew there was going to be an initial school building, - knew there was going to be an initial school building, these . knew there was going to be an. initial school building, these are the 500 — initial school building, these are the 500 most— initial school building, these are the 500 most at— initial school building, these are the 500 most at risk— initial school building, these are the 500 most at risk schools. i initial school building, these are l the 500 most at risk schools. we initial school building, these are - the 500 most at risk schools. we are notjust— the 500 most at risk schools. we are not just talking — the 500 most at risk schools. we are not just talking about _ the 500 most at risk schools. we are not just talking about general- not just talking about general repairs — not just talking about general repairs. they— not just talking about general repairs. they are _ not just talking about general repairs. they are way- not just talking about general repairs. they are way behindi not just talking about general. repairs. they are way behind on targets, — repairs. they are way behind on targets, trying _ repairs. they are way behind on targets, trying to _ repairs. they are way behind on targets, trying to address - repairs. they are way behind on targets, trying to address the l targets, trying to address the conditions _ targets, trying to address the conditions of— targets, trying to address the conditions of the _ targets, trying to address the conditions of the schools. - targets, trying to address thei conditions of the schools. that targets, trying to address the conditions of the schools. that is what many _ conditions of the schools. that is what many are — conditions of the schools. that is what many are saying, _ conditions of the schools. that is what many are saying, many - conditions of the schools. that is i what many are saying, many people are saying this is a classic template of a false economy. we shall see. david, iwant template of a false economy. we shall see. david, i want to unleash... david in colchester, i want to unleash david on the world. it's very good talking about the school and the state of the school, but the problem for me is the effect it's going to have on the children. i two children not starting school

this week because their school has been closed due to engineering coming in to inspect the school. i don't know what is going to happen after that. other schools in the area, and secondary school that has been closed, and another school that had to close ten classes out of 49. the effect that is going to happen those children is massive. it's all great talking about money and the things we have to do to repair the schools, but what are we going to do about children's education? it is a ke oint. about children's education? it is a key point. grainne, _ about children's education? it is a key point. grainne, after- about children's education? it is a key point. grainne, after everything else the children have gone through, the cost to the taxpayer is going to be hundreds of millions of pounds. and that is a nightmare for any government, of any colour, isn't it, going ahead? it government, of any colour, isn't it, going ahead?—

going ahead? it really is, as the arent going ahead? it really is, as the parent who _ going ahead? it really is, as the parent who just _ going ahead? it really is, as the parent who just spoke _ going ahead? it really is, as the parent who just spoke was - going ahead? it really is, as the l parent who just spoke was talking about, _ parent who just spoke was talking about, the — parent who just spoke was talking about, the impact on the children and what — about, the impact on the children and what this is going to do to their— and what this is going to do to their education and disruption to their— their education and disruption to their learning, when i'm speaking to head teachers, they are talking about _ head teachers, they are talking about the — head teachers, they are talking about the difficult position they are in— about the difficult position they are in in— about the difficult position they are in in having to choose which ctasses — are in in having to choose which classes to — are in in having to choose which classes to prioritise. because, to them, _ classes to prioritise. because, to them, every single class is a priority _ them, every single class is a priority. you've got new starters, they— priority. you've got new starters, they are — priority. you've got new starters, they are talking about children that are nreant— they are talking about children that are meant to be going to school for the first— are meant to be going to school for the first time who are having their first day— the first time who are having their first day is— the first time who are having their first day is delayed. as the parent pointed _ first day is delayed. as the parent pointed out, the delays are unknown, they are _ pointed out, the delays are unknown, they are waiting for engineers to come _ they are waiting for engineers to come in — they are waiting for engineers to come in to— they are waiting for engineers to come in tojudge whether or not they are waiting for engineers to come in to judge whether or not the school— come in to judge whether or not the school is _ come in to judge whether or not the school is safe to open, where the repairs _ school is safe to open, where the repairs are — school is safe to open, where the repairs are needed. there is not a finat— repairs are needed. there is not a final end — repairs are needed. there is not a final end date where they know that we will _ final end date where they know that we will all _ final end date where they know that we will all be back to normal on this date, — we will all be back to normal on this date, it's a real unknown. the school— this date, it's a real unknown. the school leaders are talking about the classes _ school leaders are talking about the classes that have already been affected — classes that have already been affected by the lockdowns, classes that have — affected by the lockdowns, classes that have got exams coming up, where assessments need to be done in schoot — assessments need to be done in school. there is no ideal time to be missing _ school. there is no ideal time to be missing weeks of school. it's a really — missing weeks of school. it's a really difficult position to put teaders — really difficult position to put leaders in. there we go back to home

tearning _ leaders in. there we go back to home learning again? we know from the last time _ learning again? we know from the last time we had the lockdowns, how difficult _ last time we had the lockdowns, how difficult that was for families. it's difficult that was for families. it's not — difficult that was for families. it's not easy to say i need to be at home _ it's not easy to say i need to be at home and — it's not easy to say i need to be at home and teaching my children, taking _ home and teaching my children, taking the — home and teaching my children, taking the time off work for parents is not _ taking the time off work for parents is not an— taking the time off work for parents is not an option for many people. so is not an option for many people. so is putting _ is not an option for many people. so is putting a — is not an option for many people. so is putting a real strain on families and on _ is putting a real strain on families and on the — is putting a real strain on families and on the community once again. we do not and on the community once again. do not know and on the community once again. , do not know the extent or scale of the problem yet again. and in these current times, with the deluge of bad news we seem to be getting, a lot of people are very much fearing the worst. what about court buildings, what about hospitals, gp surgeries, what about other public buildings? i suspect this is not the last time we will be doing this phoning. we will speak to sarah skinner, ceo of the penrose trust, and trolls, not real name, in boston. —— and charles, not his real name. you are a teacher? i

boston. -- and charles, not his real name. you are a teacher?— name. you are a teacher? i don't think we are _ name. you are a teacher? i don't think we are surprised _ name. you are a teacher? i don't think we are surprised any - name. you are a teacher? i don't think we are surprised any more. name. you are a teacher? i don't. think we are surprised any more. i think we are surprised any more. i think itjust shows the think we are surprised any more. i think it just shows the false priorities, the wrong priority our governments have got. let's build something that's going to last 30 years, whether it is a school, a hospital or whatever, and then it is somebody else's problem, let them worry about it. we would be thinking, if it was something we were building, or something we were personally owning, we would think, it has a 30 year life, we had better look at it in 20 years. truth? it has a 30 year life, we had better look at it in 20 years.— look at it in 20 years. why didn't the die look at it in 20 years. why didn't they die -- _ look at it in 20 years. why didn't they die -- put _ look at it in 20 years. why didn't they die -- put it _ look at it in 20 years. why didn't they die -- put it in _ look at it in 20 years. why didn't they die -- put it in the - look at it in 20 years. why didn't they die -- put it in the diary? i look at it in 20 years. why didn't i they die -- put it in the diary? and it's 'ust they die -- put it in the diary? and it'sjust typical- — they die —— put it in the diary? fific it'sjust typical. it's they die —— put it in the diary? fific it's just typical. it's like anything else. we've always got money for invasions, for war or whatever, but the forward planning just doesn't exist. it's almost like a metaphorfor the planet. the planet is in a state of decline, but it will be really bad in 30 years,

we will leave it for somebody else. we will just we will leave it for somebody else. we willjust tinker about it and say how wonderful we are. it's just a lack of good governance. build something that lasts 30 years and don't do anything about it for 30 years. don't do anything about it for 30 ears. ., . ., ., ~ . , years. the word we are looking at is foresiuht, years. the word we are looking at is foresight, seeing _ years. the word we are looking at is foresight, seeing beyond _ years. the word we are looking at is foresight, seeing beyond the - years. the word we are looking at is foresight, seeing beyond the time l foresight, seeing beyond the time horizon. tell is about your school. how is it? it! horizon. tell is about your school. how is it? �* . horizon. tell is about your school. how is it?— how is it? i'd rather not, if that's ok, how is it? i'd rather not, if that's ok. because _ how is it? i'd rather not, if that's ok, because i'm _ how is it? i'd rather not, if that's ok, because i'm in _ how is it? i'd rather not, if that's ok, because i'm in special- how is it? i'd rather not, if that's - ok, because i'm in special education and the circumstances are... ok, because i'm in special education and the circumstances are. . .- and the circumstances are... speak in reneral and the circumstances are... speak in general terms? _ and the circumstances are... speak in general terms? i've _ and the circumstances are... speak in generalterms? i've been - and the circumstances are... speak. in generalterms? i've been teaching since 1974 and _ in generalterms? i've been teaching since 1974 and i _ in generalterms? i've been teaching since 1974 and i remember _ in generalterms? i've been teaching since 1974 and i remember the - in generalterms? i've been teaching since 1974 and i remember the days | since 1974 and i remember the days when we were teaching in prefabricated buildings. classes were very high and we got on with it. but itjust seems that everything is like today or tomorrow. we are thinking, the

children, if you're schools are built at a certain time they have 30 years, you know in 30 years' time the kids are going to be without somewhere. we are looking now and saying, oh, isn't the present government bad? yes, but they are no worse than any of the others. the pfi funding, you know? the way schools and hospitals were built... a lot of schools are paying a fortune in interest for the original building. it's a complicated thing. it is a complicated thing. a teacher in boston with a lesson in disillusionment. there we are. in some justification disillusionment. there we are. in somejustification as disillusionment. there we are. in some justification as well. i disillusionment. there we are. in some justification as well.- some 'ustification as well. i think we some justification as well. i think we will find _ some justification as well. i think we will find a _ some justification as well. i think we will find a way. _ some justification as well. i think we will find a way. you _ some justification as well. i think we will find a way. you will- some justification as well. i think we will find a way. you will have | some justification as well. i think i we will find a way. you will have to put up with kids in the church hall, the community centre, we will take

classes in churches. we have to put up classes in churches. we have to put up with that. because that is what we have been driven to. you know what i mean? i'm very angry about it. i what i mean? i'm very angry about it. ~ ., ~ what i mean? i'm very angry about it. ~ ., . it. i know. we will teach them in the churches, _ it. i know. we will teach them in the churches, we _ it. i know. we will teach them in the churches, we will— it. i know. we will teach them in the churches, we will teach - it. i know. we will teach them in | the churches, we will teach them it. i know. we will teach them in i the churches, we will teach them in the churches, we will teach them in the community centre... taste the churches, we will teach them in the community centre. . ._ the community centre... we will never surrender! _ the community centre... we will never surrender! keep _ the community centre... we will never surrender! keep calm - the community centre... we will never surrender! keep calm and | the community centre... we will- never surrender! keep calm and carry on. sarah skinner. _ never surrender! keep calm and carry on. sarah skinner. another _ never surrender! keep calm and carry on. sarah skinner. another manic - on. sarah skinner. another manic monday, we are all tearing our hair out. you are the ceo of the penrose trust. how is it looking for you? i trust. how is it looking for you? i have eight schools in the trust, three are affected. so i have, of those three high schools, one has ten classrooms out and the staff room. one has 16 rooms out and a gymnasium. and one has 12 classrooms out. and of course there are toilet

blocks there. i also had one school with an undetermined area, where i had a surveyor going into day, and that potentially is another ten classrooms, a dining hall and a kitchen. so, yes. to say it is manic is an understatement.— kitchen. so, yes. to say it is manic is an understatement. surveyors are brilliant but — is an understatement. surveyors are brilliant but they _ is an understatement. surveyors are brilliant but they don't _ is an understatement. surveyors are brilliant but they don't come - is an understatement. surveyors are brilliant but they don't come cheap. | brilliant but they don't come cheap. no. to be honest, at the moment, we had two schools with undetermined areas. we had a surveyor in one this morning. the most important thing is that i can't write to parents because ten classrooms out is very different to 20 classrooms out. so i need to let parents know today, so i needed someone to tell me where i am apt, really. needed someone to tell me where i am a t, reall . . ., needed someone to tell me where i am at, reall . . ., ., , apt, really. yeah, how worrying. it's incredibly _ apt, really. yeah, how worrying. it's incredibly frustrating. - apt, really. yeah, how worrying. it's incredibly frustrating. i - apt, really. yeah, how worrying. it's incredibly frustrating. i get l it's incredibly frustrating. i get your previous guest. your anger. at the moment it is wasted energy, i have to focus on just getting as many children in front of teachers as possible try to stop the

inconvenience to parents. that is my priority. children are better and safer in school. that is where i want them. i'vejust safer in school. that is where i want them. i've just got to find a plan. ijust heard from my estates manager, we secured six temporary classrooms. one school will be fine, and that means all year groups will be back this week. the other two schools, you know, i need a lot more classrooms. it's a bigger issue. during the pandemic, we had so many virologists, everybody had their favourite virologist. in the months to come, everybody will have their favourite concrete expert. i do not disparage surveyors, it's a brilliant speciality requiring a whole host of skills and expertise. we would love to hear from the surveying community. a viewerfrom

manchester, teaching assistant, what would you like to say? first manchester, teaching assistant, what would you like to say?— would you like to say? first of all, i think would you like to say? first of all, i think the — would you like to say? first of all, i think the lack— would you like to say? first of all, i think the lack of _ would you like to say? first of all, i think the lack of communication | i think the lack of communication from the government, the way they have left it right until the end of the summer holidays, when children and young people are going back to school this week and next, i think it is so irresponsible. also, we've got to look at, yes, they are going to be putting measures in place, these schools, but some of the children are going to have to be staying at home and working from home due to schools closing. that is having a detrimental impact on their education. some children, this is their last year high school and they are going to be getting their gcse exams this year. if this destruction goes on for long period, you know, that could be detrimental insofar as

their exams this year. what that could be detrimental insofar as their exams this year.— their exams this year. what is the feelin: in their exams this year. what is the feeling in the _ their exams this year. what is the feeling in the school _ their exams this year. what is the feeling in the school about - their exams this year. what is the feeling in the school about all- their exams this year. what is the feeling in the school about all of. feeling in the school about all of this? ~ . , . this? well, currently i am with arencies this? well, currently i am with agencies at — this? well, currently i am with agencies at the _ this? well, currently i am with agencies at the minute, - this? well, currently i am with agencies at the minute, so - this? well, currently i am with agencies at the minute, so i'm this? well, currently i am with - agencies at the minute, so i'm not aware. what i know is, from schools in my area and other areas, the thing is, ithink in my area and other areas, the thing is, i think it wasjust in my area and other areas, the thing is, i think it was just with shock at the lack of communication, you know? for parents, the way the government have not list a —— listed schools which are closing. some parents might be worrying today that they are sending their children into school, not knowing if the school building a safe or not. it school, not knowing if the school building a safe or not.— school, not knowing if the school building a safe or not. it was what we were saying — building a safe or not. it was what we were saying earlier— building a safe or not. it was what we were saying earlier on. - building a safe or not. it was what we were saying earlier on. is - building a safe or not. it was what we were saying earlier on. is it. we were saying earlier on. is it transparency or the risk of scaremongering? we have the very person to talk to. that is an excellent call. we have our chief political correspondent, henry zeffman. we havejust

political correspondent, henry zeffman. we have just lost political correspondent, henry zeffman. we havejust lost him. i can hear a fluffy line in the background there. we will get the line back to him in a second. let's have a look at some of these texts that have been coming in this morning. there is a good view, as you can imagine. state of schools, it doesn't matter which of little party was in charge when raac was in scrawled with a 30 year shelf life, the department for education is run by civil servants and they should have timetable to maintenance on school buildings, and it should have been done on time. regardless of the party in power at the time. that is chris. thank you, sir. and this, this is part of a pattern of this government. cut costs in the short term and end up paying a big in the long term. and yet we can find billions for hs2 to chop ten minutes of a trip to birmingham. ijust read them out. and this one, surely

responsibility for school sets with a local authority? why are they not been questioned over this issue on the upkeep of schools in areas? and this, james from stockport, it seems to me that government has known about this for a while but is now having to pay through the nose to get it fixed. i wonder who will be getting the contracts to fix this issue, and if this doesn't and in more kickbacks for ministers and their mates. that is cynicism. i can't take it. henry zeffman, chief political correspondent. i think we have got the line sorted out. good to have you for the first time on the nation's phone in. this is a nightmare for the government, isn't it? it nightmare for the government, isn't it? , ., , ., nightmare for the government, isn't it? _, , ., ., it? it is a complete nightmare for the government, _ it? it is a complete nightmare for the government, to _ it? it is a complete nightmare for the government, to say - it? it is a complete nightmare for the government, to say the - it? it is a complete nightmare for| the government, to say the least. this is not what they wanted as their own back—to—school moment. we were calling it that in westminster. now people are talking about disruption to actual real schools and the children who go there,

teachers and parents, and so on. i think the most damaging thing for the government here is how many unanswered questions there are that they can't get answer. potentially 100 more schools are affected and unknown at the moment. there is the question of how that might be remedied, to which we don't know the answer. the question of how long that might take, which we don't know the answer. how they will pay for it, we don't know the answer. and the question of whether there are all sorts of other public buildings, prisons, hospitals, courts, but also have this kind of concrete and might have this kind of concrete and might have this kind of concrete and might have this whole other issue all over again. have this whole other issue all over aaain. . ~ have this whole other issue all over aaain. , ,, ., have this whole other issue all over aaain. ., . , have this whole other issue all over aaain. ., , ., again. this kind of concrete is not 'ust to again. this kind of concrete is not just tory concrete _ again. this kind of concrete is not just tory concrete over _ again. this kind of concrete is not just tory concrete over the - again. this kind of concrete is not just tory concrete over the years, j just tory concrete over the years, is it? . , , is it? indeed, it was used, it seems. _ is it? indeed, it was used, it seems. very _ is it? indeed, it was used, it seems, very widely - is it? indeed, it was used, it seems, very widely in - is it? indeed, it was used, it seems, very widely in publicj seems, very widely in public buildings for decades, and conservatives will say, what could they have done other than deal with this issue when it arose? now labour

would say to my coatings. one is that they say the government was being warned about this, including by labour, some labour politicians, about a year ago. so there was no need for this issue to really erupt to just a few days before children to just a few days before children to go back to school. they would also say that, over the past ten, 13 years, they used the number 13 a lot because that is when the conservatives came into power in 2010, the government has cut and cut funding for school repairs and that is why the issue is now so grave, because there are buildings that basically should have been repaired or taken out of use some years ago, but because of the government are not spending, they are still in use. that is the labour case, and that is the charge that the government is going to have to answer if it wants to start building public faith that they are handling this well and it is not their fault. they are handling this well and it is not theirfault. so they are handling this well and it is not their fault.— is not their fault. so we need to -a to is not their fault. so we need to pay to fix _ is not their fault. so we need to pay to fix this. _ is not their fault. so we need to pay to fix this, it _ is not their fault. so we need to pay to fix this, it will _ is not their fault. so we need to pay to fix this, it will cost - pay to fix this, it will cost taxpayers hundreds of millions of pounds. where is the money to come from? because there seems to be...

do i detect a bit of obfuscation here? , , do i detect a bit of obfuscation here? , . . ., here? jeremy hunt, the chancellor, was on sunday _ here? jeremy hunt, the chancellor, was on sunday with _ here? jeremy hunt, the chancellor, was on sunday with laura _ here? jeremy hunt, the chancellor, l was on sunday with laura kuenssberg yesterday and said that the government back i would spend whatever it takes. some people might have to promise that the government will find new money, be it from taxes, borrowing or reallocation of budgets in other parts of government for that. that doesn't seem to be quite what is going to happen. instead, it sounds like money that is already being used, already set to be used for school maintenance is going to now be used for this. and thatis going to now be used for this. and that is something which labour are also going to focus on, they are going to say you are just throwing good money after bad, and neglecting a whole host of other school maintenance issues. but then, of course, the government would throw it back to labour and say, ok, fine, how are you going to fund that? keir starmer is in the papers this morning saying if he becomes prime minister, labour market would not raise taxes. so there is not more revenue coming in. there is going to be political argy—bargy for sure. but i think the real reason this is

so bad for the government, the reason my phone is ablaze with anxious messages from people in government and the conservative party is just the sense of crisis, the sense that there is just this issue that it has no sort of quick and easy fix in sight. on the government are the government when the music stops. so you are getting texts from people in government and from that side of the house? note names, they are saying, they have their heads in their hands?— saying, they have their heads in their hands? that is right and the thin that their hands? that is right and the thing that has _ their hands? that is right and the thing that has changed _ their hands? that is right and the thing that has changed this - their hands? that is right and the - thing that has changed this morning, new development as we have had the former head of the department for education, an official rather than a politician, the permanent secretary forfour politician, the permanent secretary for four years, jonathan slater, he has been giving an interview, he has taken the issue which is an issue for the education secretary gillian

keegan to fix and he has laid it at the door of rishi sunak. he has said that rishi sunak was chancellor the treasury repeatedly rebuffed requests from the department for education for lots more money and he said the treasury was warned that there was a serious risk of life, risk of death, rather, to children in these schools and he identified in these schools and he identified in particular a spending review, these periodical reviews of how much these periodical reviews of how much the government is spending and prayer that happens every few years, in 2021 than rishi sunak was chancellor, the department for educationjonathan slater claims had asked for funding educationjonathan slater claims had asked forfunding for educationjonathan slater claims had asked for funding for repairs for certain schools to be doubled or tripled and rishi sunak halved it to 50 and now this is making conservative mps anxious. we now have a situation rishi sunak is not just having to think about how the

government grip is this going forward and what the government does to reassure parents and children that they will be ok at school but they are also going to have to account for what they did in the past and whether they are responsible for things being in this situation. . ~ responsible for things being in this situation. . ,, , ., . , situation. thank you so much henry settlement- — situation. thank you so much henry settlement. great _ situation. thank you so much henry settlement. great calls _ situation. thank you so much henry settlement. great calls and - situation. thank you so much henry settlement. great calls and text - settlement. great calls and text coming in. grainne listening to all of this and i know you want to make a quick comment. taste of this and i know you want to make a quick comment.— a quick comment. we are talking about why _ a quick comment. we are talking about why now. _ a quick comment. we are talking about why now, why _ a quick comment. we are talking about why now, why are - a quick comment. we are talking about why now, why are we - a quick comment. we are talking i about why now, why are we hearing about _ about why now, why are we hearing about this _ about why now, why are we hearing about this now and i think it's really— about this now and i think it's really important because when we look back— really important because when we look back and see where things have happened _ look back and see where things have happened and when, you are left asking _ happened and when, you are left asking why has the suddenly become an issue _ asking why has the suddenly become an issue because it was injuly 2018 when _ an issue because it was injuly 2018 when the _ an issue because it was injuly 2018 when the primary school in gravesend had a _ when the primary school in gravesend had a collapsed building which was because _ had a collapsed building which was because of a failure of the raac they had — because of a failure of the raac they had in the ceiling and thankfully it happened at the

weekend but it could have been a huge _ weekend but it could have been a huge tragedy and even then it took until december for the department for education to notify the school is to say— for education to notify the school is to say there might be an issue. and then — is to say there might be an issue. and then again, until march 22 until they send _ and then again, until march 22 until they send out the survey is to be 8600 _ they send out the survey is to be 8600 schools who they believed might have raac in the schools to say could _ have raac in the schools to say could you — have raac in the schools to say could you have a look and see what the state _ could you have a look and see what the state is — could you have a look and see what the state is in your schools of this raac _ the state is in your schools of this raac that — the state is in your schools of this raac. that is a massive gap in the christian— raac. that is a massive gap in the christian school leaders are asking is why— christian school leaders are asking is why didn't you do more earlier and sooner? why is the quality of the survey— and sooner? why is the quality of the survey so paul, why has itjust been~~~ _ the survey so paul, why has itjust been and — the survey so paul, why has itjust been and i_ the survey so paul, why has itjust been... and i think we are in the position— been... and i think we are in the position we're in now because there has been _ position we're in now because there has been a — position we're in now because there has been a lack of urgency behind locating _ has been a lack of urgency behind locating the raac and doing something about it and what we are hearing _ something about it and what we are hearing for— something about it and what we are hearing for schools, it is then that has been — hearing for schools, it is then that has been asking the department of education — has been asking the department of education for money and to address its inner— education for money and to address its inner and that is why we find

ourselves— its inner and that is why we find ourselves in the situation we do now _ ourselves in the situation we do now. . . ourselves in the situation we do now. , ., ., " ourselves in the situation we do now. , . . ~ , ., ourselves in the situation we do now. . . . ~ ourselves in the situation we do now. . . now. grainne, thank you so much. let's hear— now. grainne, thank you so much. let's hear from _ now. grainne, thank you so much. let's hear from you, _ now. grainne, thank you so much. let's hear from you, on _ now. grainne, thank you so much. let's hear from you, on phone, i let's hearfrom you, on phone, 85085. with apologies for lateness! more contributions to come on the state of the schools. al tansley has the 5 live news. the education secretary gillian keegan says the government will publish a list of schools affected by raac concrete this week — as many schools start the new term with buildings fully or partially closed. it's as a former top civil servant has said the government halved its budget for school repairs in 2021. the family of a 13—year—old girl who died of a sepsis infection are calling for patients and their loved ones to be given the right to ask for an urgent second opinion. martha mills would have been 16 today, but died two years ago — doctors have apologised for failing

to spot and treat her condition early enough. president zelensky has announced he's replacing the ukrainian defence minister, oleksii reznikov, saying it's time for a "new approach". he's been in thejob since before russia's invasion in february last year. and almost half of train services in britain were at least one minute late so far this year — that's according to bbc analysis of national rail data up to the end ofjuly. network rail says it's working closely with train operators to make improvements. that's the news, katie smith has the sport. mikel arteta says record signing declan rice was tremendous as he found the stoppage time winner for arsenal at the emirates as they beat rivals manchester united 3—1 — gabrieljesus also scored in the dying seconds. arsenal remain unbeaten in the pl this season while that's two losses in four for united. jadon sancho also took to social media to say he felt he was being made a scapegoat by the club. erik ten hag says the winger had been dropped from the matchday squad because of poor performances in training.

jurgen klopp has insisted mo salah is 100% committed to liverpool after he scored in their 3—0 win over aston villa — the club rejected a £150m bid for him last week from saudi arabian side al—ittihad. on to tennis and defending champion iga swiatek is out of the us open — knocked out in three sets byjelena ostapenko. later today, britonjack draper takes on eighth seed andrey rublev for a place in the quarterfinals. and europe's ryder cup captain luke donald names his six wildcard picks this afternoon — the action begins in rome later this month.

coming up on the radio and the telly, radio only from ten o'clock, right here, how do they end abuse in shops? shocking, strong words from the tesco chief executive ken murphy over the weekend, did you clock this? calling for a change in the law to make abuse or violence towards retail workers an offence in the uk and calling for body cameras. tesco are now offering body worn cameras to some of its staff after seeing physical assaults arise by one third in a year. what are you seeing on the shop floor? talking shops at ten o'clock, have you been verbally or physically assaulted at work? have you witnessed it? it is a bit of a thought that hell is going

on in our society and that is fair enough. that is coming up at 10am on the radio and i want to tell you what is happening on the bbc news channel as well. bbc news, i will do that in just channel as well. bbc news, i will do that injust a channel as well. bbc news, i will do that in just a second, oh, channel as well. bbc news, i will do that injust a second, oh, here channel as well. bbc news, i will do that in just a second, oh, here we are. precise words necessary. 11:30am, bbc news is hosting a special edition of your questions answered which is about raac concrete in schools. the very topic we are discussing at the moment, a panel of excellent experts on hand to answer your question so get in touch with your questions, using the hashtag or e—mail the programme. all coming up, thought under way, what a choice for you! it is 9:39am.

thank you for your contributions. some good ones. we still have grainne whose recruitment editor and senior content writer of the publication formally known as the times educational supplement. let me come to a chartered civil engineer now, did you see this coming? i will now, did you see this coming? i will not sa i now, did you see this coming? i will rrot say i saw _ now, did you see this coming? i will rrot say i saw it _ now, did you see this coming? i will not say i saw it coming _ now, did you see this coming? in it not say i saw it coming but my experience in the industry as they do not listen to the people that do see it coming. do not listen to the people that do see it coming-— do not listen to the people that do see it coming. those who did see it comin: , see it coming. those who did see it coming. did — see it coming. those who did see it coming. did you — see it coming. those who did see it coming, did you hear _ see it coming. those who did see it coming, did you hear them - see it coming. those who did see it coming, did you hear them saying i coming, did you hear them saying that they saw it coming?- coming, did you hear them saying that they saw it coming? there was a situation in the _ that they saw it coming? there was a situation in the 1970s. _ that they saw it coming? there was a situation in the 1970s. doctor- that they saw it coming? there was a situation in the 1970s. doctor adam l situation in the 19705. doctor adam neville, a concrete expert was talking about a different sort of concrete that was made of high

luminous cement and he predicted that was going to fail in 10—20 years. and he was vilified by the press in the industry. but he stood his ground because he is a competent chap and he eventually was vindicated because the outcome was exactly as he predicted. hana exactly as he predicted. how widespread _ exactly as he predicted. how widespread do _ exactly as he predicted. how widespread do you _ exactly as he predicted. how widespread do you feel - exactly as he predicted. how widespread do you feel this may be, calvin? in widespread do you feel this may be, calvin? , u. widespread do you feel this may be, calvin? , u, ., widespread do you feel this may be, calvin? , u, . ., calvin? in my career and not in an hinu calvin? in my career and not in anything like — calvin? in my career and not in anything like as _ calvin? in my career and not in anything like as high-profile i calvin? in my career and not inj anything like as high-profile as anything like as high—profile as this, there have been a number of things that i've been very concerned about. and i've been dubbed a troublemaker, it was actually said to me, you arejust a troublemaker, it was actually said to me, you are just a troublemaker. very often troublemakers are good! very often troublemakers are good! very necessary to get things changed! very necessary to get things chanced! . ., ., , changed! that was a guy, i never recorded it _ changed! that was a guy, i never recorded it at _ changed! that was a guy, i never recorded it at the _ changed! that was a guy, i never recorded it at the time, - changed! that was a guy, i never recorded it at the time, i - changed! that was a guy, i never recorded it at the time, i wish i l recorded it at the time, i wish i had, he was in the oil industry and he said myjob is to predict problems before they happen.

he said my job is to predict problems before they happen. yeah, if onl we problems before they happen. yeah, if only we had _ problems before they happen. yeah, if only we had more _ problems before they happen. yeah, if only we had more of— problems before they happen. yeah, if only we had more of those - problems before they happen. yeah, if only we had more of those people doing it with precision, that is the point. calvin, thank you. tony witness, sarah in hebden bridge, sarah, coming to you first, good morning. what do you think of of this? i morning. what do you think of of this? . ., , morning. what do you think of of this? . . , _, . ~y this? i am really concerned. my little boy is _ this? i am really concerned. my little boy is set _ this? i am really concerned. my little boy is set to _ this? i am really concerned. my little boy is set to start - this? i am really concerned. my little boy is set to start high - little boy is set to start high school — little boy is set to start high school for _ little boy is set to start high school for the _ little boy is set to start high school for the first - little boy is set to start high school for the first time - little boy is set to start high school for the first time onl school for the first time on wednesday. _ school for the first time on wednesday, the building l school for the first time on . wednesday, the building was school for the first time on - wednesday, the building was built in the 50s _ wednesday, the building was built in the 50s and — wednesday, the building was built in the 50s and it— wednesday, the building was built in the 50s and it is— wednesday, the building was built in the 50s and it is in— wednesday, the building was built in the 50s and it is in a _ wednesday, the building was built in the 50s and it is in a shocking - the 50s and it is in a shocking state — the 50s and it is in a shocking state of— the 50s and it is in a shocking state of repair— the 50s and it is in a shocking state of repair and _ the 50s and it is in a shocking state of repair and we - the 50s and it is in a shocking state of repair and we have i the 50s and it is in a shocking. state of repair and we have been told absolutely _ state of repair and we have been told absolutely nothing. - state of repair and we have been told absolutely nothing. shocking state of repair, _ told absolutely nothing. shocking state of repair, when _ told absolutely nothing. shocking state of repair, when you - told absolutely nothing. shocking state of repair, when you go - told absolutely nothing. shocking i state of repair, when you go there, what do you see?— what do you see? gosh, it has deteriorated _ what do you see? gosh, it has deteriorated since _ what do you see? gosh, it has deteriorated since the - what do you see? gosh, it has deteriorated since the first. what do you see? gosh, it has i deteriorated since the first time what do you see? gosh, it has - deteriorated since the first time we went to _ deteriorated since the first time we went to view— deteriorated since the first time we went to view it _ deteriorated since the first time we went to view it at _ deteriorated since the first time we went to view it at the _ deteriorated since the first time we went to view it at the welcome - went to view it at the welcome evening — went to view it at the welcome evening for— went to view it at the welcome evening for the _ went to view it at the welcome evening for the intake. - went to view it at the welcome evening for the intake. wateri went to view it at the welcome - evening for the intake. water marks everywhere, — evening for the intake. water marks everywhere, crumbling _ evening for the intake. water marks everywhere, crumbling plaster, - everywhere, crumbling plaster, uneven — everywhere, crumbling plaster, uneven floors, _ everywhere, crumbling plaster, uneven floors, they— everywhere, crumbling plaster, uneven floors, they have - everywhere, crumbling plaster, uneven floors, they have beeni everywhere, crumbling plaster, - uneven floors, they have been worn away~ _ uneven floors, they have been worn away. very — uneven floors, they have been worn away. very shabby, _ uneven floors, they have been worn away. very shabby, very, _ uneven floors, they have been worn away. very shabby, very, very- uneven floors, they have been worn away. very shabby, very, very old. i away. very shabby, very, very old. and now— away. very shabby, very, very old. and now potentially _ away. very shabby, very, very old.

and now potentially unsafe. - away. very shabby, very, very old. and now potentially unsafe. find i away. very shabby, very, very old. and now potentially unsafe.- and now potentially unsafe. and it was ever thus, _ and now potentially unsafe. and it was ever thus, when _ and now potentially unsafe. and it was ever thus, when you - and now potentially unsafe. and it was ever thus, when you hear- and now potentially unsafe. and it i was ever thus, when you hear about this problem in the news, for example. you notice new things that are going wrong, don't you? i own, i have never noticed that damp patch in the corner... i have never noticed that damp patch in the corner. . ._ in the corner. .. i worry about collapsing — in the corner. .. i worry about collapsing ceilings _ in the corner. .. i worry about collapsing ceilings and - in the corner. .. i worry about collapsing ceilings and all. in the corner. .. i worry about| collapsing ceilings and all the in the corner. .. i worry about - collapsing ceilings and all the rest of it, _ collapsing ceilings and all the rest of it. you — collapsing ceilings and all the rest of it, you cannot— collapsing ceilings and all the rest of it, you cannot help _ collapsing ceilings and all the rest of it, you cannot help but - collapsing ceilings and all the rest of it, you cannot help but worry. collapsing ceilings and all the rest i of it, you cannot help but worry and all the _ of it, you cannot help but worry and all the secrecy— of it, you cannot help but worry and all the secrecy around _ of it, you cannot help but worry and all the secrecy around it. _ of it, you cannot help but worry and all the secrecy around it. i- of it, you cannot help but worry and all the secrecy around it. i have - all the secrecy around it. i have been _ all the secrecy around it. i have been on — all the secrecy around it. i have been on the _ all the secrecy around it. i have been on the school _ all the secrecy around it. i have been on the school website - all the secrecy around it. i have been on the school website for| been on the school website for updates — been on the school website for updates and _ been on the school website for updates and there _ been on the school website for updates and there is _ been on the school website for updates and there is nothing . updates and there is nothing whatsoever _ updates and there is nothing whatsoever. the _ updates and there is nothing whatsoever. the school- updates and there is nothing whatsoever. the school willi updates and there is nothing i whatsoever. the school will not earmark— whatsoever. the school will not earmark the _ whatsoever. the school will not earmark the rebuild, _ whatsoever. the school will not earmark the rebuild, 15 - whatsoever. the school will not earmark the rebuild, 15 or- whatsoever. the school will not earmark the rebuild, 15 or 20 i whatsoever. the school will not i earmark the rebuild, 15 or 20 years a-o earmark the rebuild, 15 or 20 years ago and _ earmark the rebuild, 15 or 20 years ago and i_ earmark the rebuild, 15 or 20 years ago and i think— earmark the rebuild, 15 or 20 years ago and i think a _ earmark the rebuild, 15 or 20 years ago and i think a government i ago and i think a government minister— ago and i think a government ministerwent_ ago and i think a government ministerwent to— ago and i think a government minister went to look- ago and i think a government minister went to look and i ago and i think a government i minister went to look and promised and still— minister went to look and promised and still nothing. _ minister went to look and promised and still nothing. it— minister went to look and promised and still nothing. it is— minister went to look and promised and still nothing. it is in— minister went to look and promised and still nothing. it is in a - minister went to look and promised and still nothing. it is in a bad i and still nothing. it is in a bad state — and still nothing. it is in a bad state of— and still nothing. it is in a bad state of disrepair, _ and still nothing. it is in a bad state of disrepair, it _ and still nothing. it is in a bad state of disrepair, it is- and still nothing. it is in a bad state of disrepair, it is not- and still nothing. it is in a bad| state of disrepair, it is notjust and still nothing. it is in a bad i state of disrepair, it is notjust a bit shabby. _ state of disrepair, it is notjust a bit shabby. it _ state of disrepair, it is notjust a bit shabby. it is _ state of disrepair, it is notjust a bit shabby, it is well— state of disrepair, it is notjust a bit shabby, it is well known i state of disrepair, it is notjust a i bit shabby, it is well known locally as being _ bit shabby, it is well known locally as being the — bit shabby, it is well known locally as being the school— bit shabby, it is well known locally as being the school that— bit shabby, it is well known locally as being the school that is- bit shabby, it is well known locally as being the school that is falling. as being the school that is falling down _ as being the school that is falling down. . , as being the school that is falling down. . ~ . as being the school that is falling down. . . . , ., , down. really? what is the worst part of it? i down. really? what is the worst part of it? i think — down. really? what is the worst part of it? i think there _ down. really? what is the worst part of it? i think there are _ down. really? what is the worst part of it? i think there are one _ down. really? what is the worst part of it? i think there are one or - down. really? what is the worst part of it? i think there are one or two i of it? i think there are one or two new blocks _ of it? i think there are one or two new blocks that _ of it? i think there are one or two new blocks that have _ of it? i think there are one or two new blocks that have been - of it? i think there are one or two | new blocks that have been added, of it? i think there are one or two i new blocks that have been added, the main building— new blocks that have been added, the main building itself, _ new blocks that have been added, the main building itself, you _ new blocks that have been added, the

main building itself, you can- new blocks that have been added, the main building itself, you can tell, i main building itself, you can tell, it's like _ main building itself, you can tell, it's like something _ main building itself, you can tell, it's like something from - main building itself, you can tell, it's like something from the i main building itself, you can tell, i it's like something from the eastern bloc, _ it's like something from the eastern bloc. guite — it's like something from the eastern bloc, quite depressing. _ it's like something from the eastern bloc, quite depressing. but - it's like something from the eastern bloc, quite depressing. but you i it's like something from the eastern bloc, quite depressing. but you can| bloc, quite depressing. but you can see it _ bloc, quite depressing. but you can see it as— bloc, quite depressing. but you can see it as markedly _ bloc, quite depressing. but you can see it as markedly in _ bloc, quite depressing. but you can see it as markedly in a _ bloc, quite depressing. but you can see it as markedly in a bad - bloc, quite depressing. but you can see it as markedly in a bad state. . see it as markedly in a bad state. we worry— see it as markedly in a bad state. we worry about _ see it as markedly in a bad state. we worry about asbestos, - see it as markedly in a bad state. we worry about asbestos, this i we worry about asbestos, this concrete. _ we worry about asbestos, this concrete, yeah, _ we worry about asbestos, this concrete, yeah, i— we worry about asbestos, this concrete, yeah, ido— we worry about asbestos, this concrete, yeah, i do not- we worry about asbestos, this| concrete, yeah, i do not know, we worry about asbestos, this i concrete, yeah, i do not know, what do you _ concrete, yeah, i do not know, what do you do? — concrete, yeah, i do not know, what do you do? you _ concrete, yeah, i do not know, what do you do? you cannot _ concrete, yeah, i do not know, what do you do? you cannot keep- concrete, yeah, i do not know, what do you do? you cannot keep your. do you do? you cannot keep your child _ do you do? you cannot keep your child at— do you do? you cannot keep your child at home? _ do you do? you cannot keep your child at home?— do you do? you cannot keep your child at home? asbestos of courses in another huge _ child at home? asbestos of courses in another huge problem _ child at home? asbestos of courses in another huge problem but - child at home? asbestos of courses in another huge problem but tony, | in another huge problem but tony, good morning. listen to sarah. goad good morning. listen to sarah. good morninu. good morning. listen to sarah. good morning. unfortunately _ good morning. listen to sarah. good morning. unfortunately i _ good morning. listen to sarah. (ems morning. unfortunately i think it's just the state of life nowadays. things to wear, everything has a life span and i think the reality is of course in an ideal world, we would all have new buildings built regularly and everything will be hunky—dory as such but the reality is we have got a cost of living crisis going on as well at the moment. regardless of what government says, i think it is always going to be a continuous

issue and a problem because it is with everything. unfortunately, you know, yeah, ijust feel it is quite difficult. i cannot honestly believe that the crisis is as bad as we are being told because i would have thought the government would have had some indication and inclination on this quite some time ago? but yes, that's my thoughts, i work in the education industry so i do visit quite a few schools and i have seen the state of schools but i have also worked overseas and seen the same thing so it's not you.— thing so it's not you. that's interesting, _ thing so it's not you. that's interesting, can _ thing so it's not you. that's interesting, can i— thing so it's not you. that's interesting, can i ask - thing so it's not you. that's interesting, can i ask you i thing so it's not you. that's i interesting, can i ask you about that, overseas? it's one of the things i was thinking about this morning, comparable countries, have they faced the same problems? we know about the cladding crisis. is it happening elsewhere? yes.

know about the cladding crisis. is it happening elsewhere?- know about the cladding crisis. is it happening elsewhere? yes, it is. i can onl it happening elsewhere? yes, it is. i can only speak— it happening elsewhere? yes, it is. i can only speak on _ it happening elsewhere? yes, it is. i can only speak on my _ it happening elsewhere? yes, it is. i can only speak on my experience. it happening elsewhere? yes, it is. i i can only speak on my experience. i spent quite a number of years working in new zealand. my last school in particular, i mean, we have had issues with asbestos piping heating going off and not being able to be repaired because basically it's not cost—effective enough to get the piping removed so the alternative was the education sector provided heaters for the classroom but they were inadequate. theyjust went up... it was a plaster over an issue. i have also seen ceilings where they have actually, there have been leaks not repaired and its done damage to the ceiling on the ceiling has been partly hanging down with materials. so it is notjust this country, it's all countries. i tend to feel with only being over here

for the last seven or eight months now, i think we have got to put everything in perspective. i am not seeing or seeming to dampen this down but i would really be quite concerned of the government was so badly organised that they did not know about these issues previously and beforehand. it is not something that has just crept up on this government or even the last government or even the last government but the reality is, you know... ., ., , . , know... you cannot believe any government — know... you cannot believe any government would _ know... you cannot believe any government would let - know... you cannot believe any government would let the - know... you cannot believe any government would let the slip i know... you cannot believe any. government would let the slip so much that they will take their eye off this particular door? i am re off this particular door? i am pretty sure. _ off this particular door? i am pretty sure, listening - off this particular door? i am pretty sure, listening to i off this particular door? i am pretty sure, listening to the | pretty sure, listening to the minister this morning, they have obviously been aware of this for quite some time. i do not think it is a question of pointing the finger atjust one person. ifeel this has been a long—term issue. and you know, if you build a building and you say you should get 30 years out of it, the bottom line is you probably expect to get more than that, that should be the minimum.

so, you know, i know some of these buildings have been put up for 50, 60, 70 years but the reality is we have to do the best with what we have to do the best with what we have got and in an ideal world, as i say, unless you absolutely tax people to death for money to get all these repairs done, the reality is, unfortunately, we tend to focus on when things reach a crisis point and then we react on it. i think it's quite a british thing, that. much as a big statement! isn’t quite a british thing, that. much as a big statement!— a big statement! isn't it? there is a big statement! isn't it? there is a text sopporter _ a big statement! isn't it? there is a text supporter of _ a big statement! isn't it? there is a text supporter of what - a big statement! isn't it? there is a text supporter of what you i a big statement! isn't it? there is a text supporter of what you say, | a text supporter of what you say, broadly speaking. this is a complete overreaction, small element of risk and anything in life, there is the very remote possibility someone will get injured but we know that there are likely hundreds of people who will be injured on the roads. should we take all traffic of the roads? this is from martin in essex and we

are getting inevitable text saying this is health and safety gone mad. and we should grin and bear it and there is not that much to bear anyway. grainne what do you think of those views, this is hyped up and soaked up? if those views, this is hyped up and soaked op?— those views, this is hyped up and soaked u? . ., . . , . soaked up? if we had not already had a school that — soaked up? if we had not already had a school that had _ soaked up? if we had not already had a school that had a _ soaked up? if we had not already had a school that had a collapse - soaked up? if we had not already had a school that had a collapse perhapsl a school that had a collapse perhaps you could _ a school that had a collapse perhaps you could see that side of the argument. i think it's important to reassure _ argument. i think it's important to reassure parents that schools are on top of _ reassure parents that schools are on top of the _ reassure parents that schools are on top of the and that they are responding to the survey being sent out by— responding to the survey being sent out by the _ responding to the survey being sent out by the government and they are making _ out by the government and they are making sure there is somebody coming into the _ making sure there is somebody coming into the school to check the school to make _ into the school to check the school to make sure it's safe before the children— to make sure it's safe before the children go back. that is the most important — children go back. that is the most important thing, no parent is worrying _ important thing, no parent is worrying that their child is going to a school that is unsafe however i think— to a school that is unsafe however i think it _ to a school that is unsafe however i think it is _ to a school that is unsafe however i think it is also brought to light the fact— think it is also brought to light the fact that many stories like that of your— the fact that many stories like that of your previous caller, the school that the _ of your previous caller, the school that the child goes to they did not feel as _ that the child goes to they did not feel as well looked after, they do not feel—

feel as well looked after, they do not feel the building is a naked state~ — not feel the building is a naked state i— not feel the building is a naked state. i have visited schools and been _ state. i have visited schools and been taken aback by the state of the classrooms, windows had to be repaired. — classrooms, windows had to be repaired, children are routinely wearing — repaired, children are routinely wearing coats in class because it is so called — wearing coats in class because it is so called. we kind of sort of shrug and accept — so called. we kind of sort of shrug and accept these lower standards, perhaps _ and accept these lower standards, perhaps it — and accept these lower standards, perhaps it is a bit like the frog in boiling _ perhaps it is a bit like the frog in boiling water, slowly getting to the point when now we are going this is quite _ point when now we are going this is quite dire _ point when now we are going this is quite dire and we need to address at that perhaps is the problem we find ourselves— that perhaps is the problem we find ourselves in. we have slowly got into the — ourselves in. we have slowly got into the situation and suddenly it seems _ into the situation and suddenly it seems quite dreadful. let�*s into the situation and suddenly it seems quite dreadful.— into the situation and suddenly it seems quite dreadful. let's go with somebody who _ seems quite dreadful. let's go with somebody who knows _ seems quite dreadful. let's go with somebody who knows all _ seems quite dreadful. let's go with somebody who knows all about i seems quite dreadful. let's go with i somebody who knows all about raac, diana livingstone followed by patricia in lincolnshire, good to have you here with us on the nation's phone in. contact us on 08085 909693, textus en 85085. after 10am on the radio we are talking about violence in shops, from 11:30am on the bbc news channel we

are talking about raac. diane, what do you know about raac? goad do you know about raac? good morninu. do you know about raac? good morning- i _ do you know about raac? good morning. i moved _ do you know about raac? good morning. i moved to _ do you know about raac? (ems morning. i moved to livingston from edinburgh 22 years ago. two years after moving into my lovely new house, we were told raac had been used in our property. we were all told that in the report, the tail end of a hurricane could bring our houseis end of a hurricane could bring our house is done which set panic into everyone. and quite a lot of the houses had been bought from the council and homeowners obviously were sitting there wondering what they were going to do. i had a plaster, i was a tenant, i was not a homeowner, i had a plaster and i called him out because there was a large crack in the bedroom wall and bathroom wall and he came out and started knocking back the plaster to re—skin the role and he came and got me and said, i'm sorry, i cannot

touch this and i thought what? and i went up the stairs with him and he showed me the will and in between each brick the concrete, inferior concrete was crumbling. you could actually start picking it out in between the bricks. and of course i panicked. i had my children there, i panicked. i had my children there, i panicked. but in saying that, i was moved out of my house 15 years ago, 16 years this december on my house was still standing up until about five years ago when they demolished it ready to build new properties on top? and in fact some of them, the homeowners are still in doubt now, not many but there are still homeowners in some of these houses now who are waiting on a new properties being built for them. those houses are still standing and that's 20 years after the issue came to light. no we were all put under a state of fear because what happened as the council came out with signs

that they put on all of the property is seeing dangerous ref! yes! not aood. not is seeing dangerous ref! yes! not good. not good at all and put fear into a lot of people. we had people coming every day, we found out about the report, one family a gentleman came out and he had a letterfrom his mortgage company saying his final payment in his mortgage had just that they been paid. the house was now completely has. lgratith just that they been paid. the house was now completely has.— was now completely has. with a dangerous _ was now completely has. with a dangerous roof. _ was now completely has. with a dangerous roof. i'm _ was now completely has. with a dangerous roof. i'm sorry, - was now completely has. with a dangerous roof. i'm sorry, yes, | dangerous roof. i'm sorry, yes, exactl . dangerous roof. i'm sorry, yes, exactly- the — dangerous roof. i'm sorry, yes, exactly. the tenants, _ dangerous roof. i'm sorry, yes, exactly. the tenants, we - dangerous roof. i'm sorry, yes, exactly. the tenants, we were i dangerous roof. i'm sorry, yes, i exactly. the tenants, we were 0k exactly. the tenants, we were ok because obviously the local council and housing associations we were wet and housing associations we were wet and so on and so forth, we had to be moved on, we had to be given a new home whereas the homeowners, i believe, do not quote me, but i believe, do not quote me, but i believe were given £40,000 for the property. believe were given £40,000 for the ro -e . . .,

believe were given £40,000 for the ro -e . , ., , . property. listen, hold fire. diane, thank ou property. listen, hold fire. diane, thank you so _ property. listen, hold fire. diane, thank you so much _ property. listen, hold fire. diane, thank you so much for— property. listen, hold fire. diane, thank you so much for getting i property. listen, hold fire. diane, thank you so much for getting in i thank you so much for getting in touch, some breaking news now. about the by—election in the seat of nadine dorries, she was taking her time after saying she was standing down, taking her time on the timeline as to when she was going to stand down. she has been excoriating about rishi sunak, she wrote in her resignation letter, there was a stinger in every line. our political correspondent nick eardley can tell us about what is happening in mid bedfordshire? good morning. what do we know? �* , ., , we know? blockbuster few months in olitics, we know? blockbuster few months in politics. these _ we know? blockbuster few months in politics. these big — we know? blockbuster few months in politics, these big tests _ we know? blockbuster few months in politics, these big tests of _ we know? blockbuster few months in politics, these big tests of the - politics, these big tests of the rishi — politics, these big tests of the rishi sunak government and the popularity of the labour party as well _ popularity of the labour party as well. what i can tell you is the by—election in mid bedfordshire is going _ by—election in mid bedfordshire is going to _ by—election in mid bedfordshire is going to be in mid october. i do not have an _ going to be in mid october. i do not have an exact date yet because it hasn't _ have an exact date yet because it hasn't actually been finally confirmed. but i put my money on the

12th of— confirmed. but i put my money on the 12th of october, or the 19th. there have _ 12th of october, or the 19th. there have been— 12th of october, or the 19th. there have been a — 12th of october, or the 19th. there have been a big row about whether the government would start the formal— the government would start the formal process in parliament which leads— formal process in parliament which leads to _ formal process in parliament which leads to a — formal process in parliament which leads to a by—election. i've just found _ leads to a by—election. i've just found out— leads to a by—election. i've just found out they are going to do that today— found out they are going to do that today so— found out they are going to do that today so that process is going to start _ today so that process is going to start which will mean that really key by—election will be held in mid—october. probablyjust after the mid—october. probably just after the other— mid—october. probably just after the other key— mid—october. probablyjust after the other key by—election which is happening in scotland, in rutherglen, i think that will be on the 5th _ rutherglen, i think that will be on the 5th of— rutherglen, i think that will be on the 5th of october, big race between the 5th of october, big race between the snp _ the 5th of october, big race between the snp and the labour party but the one in— the snp and the labour party but the one in mid _ the snp and the labour party but the one in mid bedfordshire will be really— one in mid bedfordshire will be really important because it's one of those _ really important because it's one of those seats the conservatives have held for— those seats the conservatives have held for decades, since the 1920s, i think— held for decades, since the 1920s, i think i_ held for decades, since the 1920s, i think i am _ held for decades, since the 1920s, i think i am right in saying but both labour— think i am right in saying but both labour and — think i am right in saying but both labour and the liberal democrats think— labour and the liberal democrats think they— labour and the liberal democrats think they have a decent chance of unseating — think they have a decent chance of unseating the tory so it's going to be a closely watched one. a massive, massive _ be a closely watched one. a massive, massive test — be a closely watched one. a massive, massive test for rishi sunak.- massive test for rishi sunak. nadine dorries has been _ massive test for rishi sunak. nadine dorries has been something - massive test for rishi sunak. nadine dorries has been something of - massive test for rishi sunak. nadine dorries has been something of a i dorries has been something of a human hand grenade recently, hasn't

she? . . human hand grenade recently, hasn't she? ., , ., human hand grenade recently, hasn't she? . , . human hand grenade recently, hasn't she? . ., , she? that is a polite way of putting it for some — she? that is a polite way of putting it for some people _ she? that is a polite way of putting it for some people in _ she? that is a polite way of putting it for some people in government. | it for some people in government. she has— it for some people in government. she has been absolutely excoriating of rishi _ she has been absolutely excoriating of rishi sunak saying he is not up to the _ of rishi sunak saying he is not up to the job. — of rishi sunak saying he is not up to the job, he doesn't have the x factor— to the job, he doesn't have the x factor of— to the job, he doesn't have the x factor of someone like boris johnson _ factor of someone like boris johnson. nadine dorries was four years— johnson. nadine dorries was four years a _ johnson. nadine dorries was four years a very close ally and cheerleader for boris johnson. years a very close ally and cheerleader for borisjohnson. she has decided to finally pack it in after— has decided to finally pack it in after saying she was going to do so for several— after saying she was going to do so for several weeks. after saying she was going to do so for severalweeks. i after saying she was going to do so for several weeks. i think that and the way— for several weeks. i think that and the way she — for several weeks. i think that and the way she left, the criticism that some _ the way she left, the criticism that some of— the way she left, the criticism that some of her local politicians had of the way _ some of her local politicians had of the way she dealt with her resignation, that will play big and that by—election campaign. but i think— that by—election campaign. but i think more broadly what is going to tell us. _ think more broadly what is going to tell us, what it will tell people like me — tell us, what it will tell people like me at westminster and what we will study— like me at westminster and what we will study closely as does it suggest support for the conservatives isjust plummeting? in those _ conservatives isjust plummeting? in those areas — conservatives isjust plummeting? in those areas they used to call heartlands, you'd expect to be a safe tory— heartlands, you'd expect to be a safe tory seat, they are struggling to get— safe tory seat, they are struggling to get the — safe tory seat, they are struggling

to get the vote out and hold onto their— to get the vote out and hold onto their seats. a big test for sir keir starmer. — their seats. a big test for sir keir starmer, we will be talking a lot about _ starmer, we will be talking a lot about the — starmer, we will be talking a lot about the labour party today with that expected reshuffle to get under way soon _ that expected reshuffle to get under way soon. of the labour party top team _ way soon. of the labour party top team big — way soon. of the labour party top team. big test for him, can he show that in— team. big test for him, can he show that in those — team. big test for him, can he show that in those old tory heartlands, labour _ that in those old tory heartlands, labour is — that in those old tory heartlands, labour is doing really well? quick one for you- _ labour is doing really well? quick one for you. i'm _ labour is doing really well? quick one for you. i'm looking - labour is doing really well? quick one for you. i'm looking at the i one for you. i'm looking at the clock. i think it's important. the liberal democrats and labour will both be hopeful of doing well in the seat because in previous by—elections, we have seen what some people espy as a tacit agreement not to put the resources into a seat for the other party might win. that is not going to happen here? ila. the other party might win. that is not going to happen here? no, and that is really _ not going to happen here? no, and that is really interesting. _ not going to happen here? no, and that is really interesting. there i that is really interesting. there are some — that is really interesting. there are some conservatives who think if labour— are some conservatives who think if labour and — are some conservatives who think if labour and the liberal democrats are going _ labour and the liberal democrats are going gung _ labour and the liberal democrats are going gung ho for this there is a chance — going gung ho for this there is a chance the _ going gung ho for this there is a chance the tories can come through the middle — chance the tories can come through the middle and if you split the anti—conservative thought you might -et a

anti—conservative thought you might get a conservative mp re—elected but it's going _ get a conservative mp re—elected but it's going to be a big campaign and we will— it's going to be a big campaign and we will follow closely over the next six or— we will follow closely over the next six or seven weeks. we we will follow closely over the next six or seven weeks.— six or seven weeks. we will, thank ou so six or seven weeks. we will, thank you so much- _ six or seven weeks. we will, thank you so much. that _ six or seven weeks. we will, thank you so much. that was _ six or seven weeks. we will, thank you so much. that was nick- six or seven weeks. we will, thank. you so much. that was nick buckley. allen in colchester, the great honour of being the last: a state of our schools. good morning. honour of being the last: a state of ourschools. good morning. iwill have to hurry you but i know you have to hurry you but i know you have stuff to say about your son who is in year ten. i have stuff to say about your son who is in year ten-— is in year ten. i am not overly worried. _ is in year ten. i am not overly worried, but _ is in year ten. i am not overly worried, but first _ is in year ten. i am not overly worried, but first i'd - is in year ten. i am not overly worried, but first i'd like i is in year ten. i am not overly worried, but first i'd like to i is in year ten. i am not overly i worried, but first i'd like to say, i do not blame the schools my son go to, they are great but year six, they were off with covid—i9 the last few months, ifeel like in they were off with covid—i9 the last few months, i feel like in the year ten now, he is going up to his options years, and also the social skills you build in school which i find more worrying than actually online learning. but we have not been given a return date on top

maybe online learning starts this friday but the return date could be as late as half term in october and ifind as late as half term in october and i find that as late as half term in october and ifind that quite as late as half term in october and i find that quite disturbing and we are surrounded by grammar schools and private schools in colchester. i think they do not suffer as much as what state schools do and maybe they should open their doors to state school children. that should open their doors to state school children.— school children. that is an interesting _ school children. that is an interesting point - school children. that is an interesting point becausel school children. that is an | interesting point because a school children. that is an - interesting point because a lot of the private schools that have been around for a long time, beautifully built in days of yore. it will come to that, there has to be some collaboration? let me tell you that the news channel will be leaving us now. and we will be carrying on our conversation after that very interesting point. such a good point, thank you for coming on this morning. thank you! some great calls this morning.

live from london, this is bbc news ukraine's president zelensky is replacing the country's defence minister, saying it's time for a new approach. over 100 schools in england and scotland will be closed or partially shut today over safety concerns about lightweight concrete. we'll have the latest from the africa climate summit in kenya, where we'll go live as the continent's leaders discuss how it can take climate action. and organisers at the burning man festival in the united states have postponed the finale because of

treacherous weather conditions leaving thousands stranded. we start in ukraine where president zelensky has announced that's he's replacing the country's defence minister, saying it's time for a new approach. oleksii reznikov had been in post since before the start of the full—scale russian invasion in february last year. his removal is thought to be part of mr zelensky�*s determination to tackle corruption in all government departments. president zelensky has nominated rustem umerov, who's currently in charge of ukraine's privatisation programme — as the new defence minister. here's mr zelensky giving that update. translation: this week, _ the parliament will be asked to make a staff related decision. i would like to outline it now. i have decided to replace the ministry of defence of ukraine.

oleksii reznikov has been through more than 550