tv BBC News Now BBC News September 7, 2023 12:30pm-1:01pm BST
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this is bbc news. the headlines: the hunt continues for a former soldier who escaped from prison in london by clinging to the underside of a delivery van. daniel khalife had been accused of trying to gather information for iran. and a bbc investigation finds that dozens of young people with autism in england and wales have died after serious failings in care — despite repeated warnings. the uk will rejoin the european union's flagship science programme — horizon — under a new deal, after months of talks. more now on the manhunt for terror suspect daniel abed khalife, who escaped from wandsworth prison
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in london on wednesday morning. in the last hour, we're learned that he was accused of trying to gather information which might be useful to an enemy. and we understand that the enemy referred to is iran. we've also learned that mr khalife was due to stand trial in november. so far, he remains at large, despite a country—wide search, and additional security measures being put in place at ports and airports. more on that in a little, but now, let's look at some of the key questions arising from the escape. here's our analysis editor, ros atkins, who has been looking at the key questions arising from the escape. a terror suspect has escaped from prison. this is daniel khalife. he's accused of placing fake bombs at a military base while he was a soldier. and these are some of the questions we have about his escape. first of all, when did it happen? well, just before 8:00 on wednesday morning, from wandsworth prison in south west london, which is a category b prison — category a being the highest security. how did it happen?
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well, the bbc has been told he strapped himself to the underside ofa van. we've no details on how he may have been able to do that. where are the authorities looking? well, everywhere. all police forces and border forces have been asked to look for him. we know there have been delays at some airports as checks intensify. how rare are prison escapes? well, reasonably. there have been five since 2017. there was an escape from wandsworth in 2019. the last terror—related escape was back in 1994. and then, who's facing questions? well, a lot of people, the prison governor. how was this escape possible? why was a terror suspect working in the kitchen? the ministry ofjustice is being asked why was he placed in a category b prison? and then there's the government and the issue of staffing. one former head of security at wandsworth prison says on any day, 30%, up to 40% of front line staff are unavailable to work. we should say there's no evidence at the moment this escape is connected to the issue of staffing. more broadly, the government says that since last year,
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the number of front line staff within the whole prison service has gone up 20%. there has been some breaking developments on the story in the last few minutes. let's cross live to our newsroom and speak to our correspondence. daniel, let's hear more about these developments you have uncovered. lip more about these developments you have uncovered.— have uncovered. up until now, we have uncovered. up until now, we have been — have uncovered. up until now, we have been reporting _ have uncovered. up until now, we have been reporting that - have uncovered. up until now, we have been reporting that daniel i have been reporting that daniel khalife was accused of gathering information for a hostile state. we are now reporting that that hostile state is iran. so, he is charged with offences under the official secrets act, and is accused of terrorism offences. he is accused of gathering information that might be useful to an enemy. we are now reporting that the enemy, in quotes, that he is accused of gathering
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information for is iran. now, as someone who has been investigated for official secrets act offences, he is automatically investigated by counterterrorism police, and it is the counter terrorism police from the counter terrorism police from the met police, s o 15. the counter terrorism police from the met police, s 015. they have responsibility nationally for any offence is to do with espionage or hostile states. find offence is to do with espionage or hostile states.— hostile states. and how rare is it, daniel, hostile states. and how rare is it, daniel. for _ hostile states. and how rare is it, daniel, for there _ hostile states. and how rare is it, daniel, for there to _ hostile states. and how rare is it, daniel, for there to be _ hostile states. and how rare is it, daniel, for there to be a - hostile states. and how rare is it, daniel, for there to be a counterl daniel, for there to be a counter terror suspect linked to a foreign states like iran?— states like iran? well, it is becoming _ states like iran? well, it is becoming more _ states like iran? well, it is becoming more question. | states like iran? well, it is- becoming more question. earlier states like iran? well, it is— becoming more question. earlier this year, the senior counterterrorism police spoke quite openly, and came out and spoke about this, saying that they are spending more time than ever on investigating threats from hostile states and espionage activities. and they listed the sort of countries, and said that russia in particular, china, but also iran.
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so, we have seen cases, other cases in recent years, where people are reduced and have even been convicted of trying to gather information for russia. —— where people are accused. and in this case, where daniel khalife is busy still on the run, he is accused of trying to gather information for iran. —— daniel khalife is obviously still on the run. . ~' khalife is obviously still on the run. . ~ , ., khalife is obviously still on the run. . ~ ., , , khalife is obviously still on the run. . ., , , , ., run. thank you for bringing us up to date on those _ run. thank you for bringing us up to date on those developments. - run. thank you for bringing us up to date on those developments. we i run. thank you for bringing us up to i date on those developments. we have had comments from the prime minister's official spokesman on the story, saying there are no plans for an independent inquiry on this escape. you said there were no plans he was aware of for an independent external investigation into the escape of this terror suspect from wandsworth prison. that hasjust coming to us from downing street. steve gillan is general secretary at the prison officers' association. hejoins me now.
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what is your reaction to what has happened with this manhunt? the media happened with this manhunt? tue: media coverage happened with this manhunt? tte: media coverage of happened with this manhunt? tt2 media coverage of this has been extensive, and from our perspective as a trade union, we don't want to see anybody escape from prison at all. i note with interest here that the prime minister's office has said there is no plans to have an independent inquiry into this. i think there should be, because i think there should be, because i think there should be, because i think the independent inquiry, if there was one, into this escape, would understand the difficulties that might members at wandsworth are absolutely facing. notjust absolutely facing. not just yesterday, absolutely facing. notjust yesterday, but on a daily basis, from short staffing levels to inexperienced, they got rid of experienced staff, with horrific budget cuts between 2010 and 2015. i think this is a wake—up call for government, and i actually think now that they need to engage and have a
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good relationship with alex chalk, actually, secretary of state. —— i have a good relationship. we have been telling alex chalk that we can't go on like this with the short staffing levels we have.— staffing levels we have. steve, do ou have staffing levels we have. steve, do you have reason _ staffing levels we have. steve, do you have reason to _ staffing levels we have. steve, do you have reason to believe - staffing levels we have. steve, do you have reason to believe that i you have reason to believe that wandsworth prison was understaffed? i will put it this way, it was understaffed. there is absolutely no doubt that wandsworth is understaffed. notjust yesterday, understaffed. not just yesterday, but understaffed. notjust yesterday, but on a daily basis. we have been raising this alarm bell, notjust at wandsworth, but across the country, and they are sending 300 people on a daily basis on detached duty to plug gaps around the system, because they can't retain staff. theyjust can't retain... they recruit staff, so let me give you an example. last year, they recruited over 4000 prison officers, and they retain 750. so, the attrition rate is awful. but wh , the attrition rate is awful. but why. steve? _ the attrition rate is awful. but why. steve? i— the attrition rate is awful. but why, steve? ithink_ the attrition rate is awful. but why, steve? i think there - the attrition rate is awful. but why, steve? i think there is i the attrition rate is awful. but why, steve? i think there is a| why, steve? i think there is a multitude _ why, steve? i think there is a multitude of _ why, steve? i think there is a multitude of things. - why, steve? i think there is a multitude of things. i - why, steve? i think there is a multitude of things. i think i why, steve? i think there is a l multitude of things. i think the advertisements that go out are
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misleading. they don't actually tell people that they have to work evenings, nights, bank holidays, anything like that. i think that young people coming into thejob, and the vast majority of them do a magnificentjob by the way, but they don't have the support mechanisms there in place. for example, and i don't like harping back to the past, but when ijoined, 30 odd years ago, you had a mental. you won't left by yourself, but i am seeing some of these young, inexperienced staff being left by themselves with loads of prisoners. —— you had a mentor. wandsworth prison holds many prisoners, 1600. and from the information i have there is 50% of that stuff available. so, there should have been hundred and 20 on duty for looking after 1600
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prisoners, but they are decimated. safety and security comes first and foremost. tote safety and security comes first and foremost. ~ , ., _ safety and security comes first and foremost. ~ , ., ., foremost. we should say that risoner foremost. we should say that prisoner escapes _ foremost. we should say that prisoner escapes like - foremost. we should say that prisoner escapes like this - foremost. we should say that prisoner escapes like this are | prisoner escapes like this are extremely rare compote of decades past. but what is the solution to this? isjust more past. but what is the solution to this? is just more funding? past. but what is the solution to this? isjust more funding? tia. past. but what is the solution to this? isjust more funding? no. -- compared — this? isjust more funding? no. -- compared to _ this? isjust more funding? no. -- compared to decades _ this? isjust more funding? no. -- compared to decades past. - this? isjust more funding? no. --| compared to decades past. funding this? isjust more funding? no. -- i compared to decades past. funding is paramount, because they have cut hundreds of millions of pounds for the budgets in 2010. and we have been saying for a while that cuts have consequences. but you know what i actually believe? my union believes they should be a royal commission, a noted royal commission notjust into prisons, but the whole criminaljustice notjust into prisons, but the whole criminal justice system. notjust into prisons, but the whole criminaljustice system. you can't be slashing police numbers, and you can't be slashing courts and closing courts, and then have a backlog. the system is in crisis, and by members are picking up the pieces from these policies. that is the reality of this. —— from poor policies.
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policies. that is the reality of this. -- from poor policies. thank ou so this. -- from poor policies. thank you so much _ this. -- from poor policies. thank you so much for— this. -- from poor policies. thank you so much for sharing _ this. -- from poor policies. thank you so much for sharing your- you so much for sharing your insights. you so much for sharing your insiuhts. ., . , _, you so much for sharing your insiuhts. ., ., , u, insights. you are very welcome. lets brin: in insights. you are very welcome. lets bring in some — insights. you are very welcome. lets bring in some pretty _ insights. you are very welcome. lets bring in some pretty new— insights. you are very welcome. lets bring in some pretty new here - insights. you are very welcome. lets bring in some pretty new here in - insights. you are very welcome. lets bring in some pretty new here in the | bring in some pretty new here in the uk, that a police investigation is to be carried out into maternity failures at an nhs trust. officers carried said they would look into the care provided by the nottingham nhs trust. it is already at the centre of the largest maternity inquiry in the history of the nhs. in a statement, the chief of nottinghamshire police said she had met with the chair of the review to is discussed in the case is potentially significant. we want to make sure we do not hinder the progress, but i am in a position to say that we are launching a police investigation. she goes on to say she has appointed the adjustment, assistant chief constable to overlook operations and the subsequent investigation. she says we are currently looking into work
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being done in shrewsbury and telford bite was murcia police to understand how they conducted their investigation alongside donna ockenden's review and any lessons learned. we have met with donna kingdon, and plan preliminary discussions with some families in the future. we will have more on that story as and when we get it. russia has accused the us of �*inhumanity�*, after it confirmed it would send ammunition made with depleted uranium to ukraine. the rounds, which will be used by abrams tanks, are better at penetrating armour than conventional shells. but russia says they will leave radioactive residue, which could cause health problems. let's hear from colonel hamish de bretton—gordon, former commander of uk and nato and cbrn forces. thank you forjoining us. what do you make about the decision to send these kinds of weapons? first you make about the decision to send these kinds of weapons?— these kinds of weapons? first of all, the decision _ these kinds of weapons? first of all, the decision is _
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these kinds of weapons? first of all, the decision is absolutely . all, the decision is absolutely right. abrams tanks, their main armour piercing round contains depleted uranium, which is a very heavy metal, and in order to destroy other tanks, you basically need something very heavy travelling at great speed, 1500 metres per second, and that will destroy the russian tanks. i think there are two things here. first of all, the russians use depleted uranium in smooth self, so they are scaring bunkering. —— scaremongering. i appreciate the people who have experienced the chernobyl catastrophe in the 90s are very fearful when people mention nuclear isotopes or uranium. but the uranium used in nuclear power stations is highly enriched. you cannot create a new direction with depleted uranium. there is certainly a small hazard potentially of massive amounts of depleted uranium around the battlefield. but if it is not handled, they do make it poses a
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very low threats. the ability to defeat the russians and get them out of ukraine as quickly as possible is i think the most important one. i was hope that people in ukraine do not worry about this. what we need to focus on is helping them, and enabling them to prevail against this illegal russian invasion. what this illegal russian invasion. what we have heard _ this illegal russian invasion. what we have heard from _ this illegal russian invasion. what we have heard from sources in ukraine is that there are concerns, given the legacy of chernobyl, about any sort of uranium entering the country in this way.— country in this way. yes, absolutely, _ country in this way. yes, absolutely, and - country in this way. yes, absolutely, and i - country in this way. yes, - absolutely, and i understand that. and certainly come up with the zaporizhzhia nuclear power station, the russians have threatened to blow it up on a number of occasions, and unfortunately, it is the way that russian disinformation goes, to try to create this fear. but depleted uranium is an inert heavy metal, and will not create any extensive contamination like a nuclear power station would, so i would like to
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reassure the people in ukraine that this is something they should not concern themselves. it has been used for 30 years. i have handled depleted uranium rounds for the 24 years when i was a tank commander, and i don't know of any issues with it. ithink it is and i don't know of any issues with it. i think it is good to highlight the potential very small risks, so that when this war is over, hopefully as quickly as possible, those rounds can be safely destroyed and got rid of. but i don't think, i think it is a very, very small risk, and i hope the people of ukraine listen to that, rather than propaganda and disinformation coming out of the kremlin. to propaganda and disinformation coming out of the kremlin.— out of the kremlin. to stay with us for a second- _ out of the kremlin. to stay with us for a second. we _ out of the kremlin. to stay with us for a second. we just _ out of the kremlin. to stay with us for a second. we just have - out of the kremlin. to stay with us for a second. we just have the - for a second. we just have the latest from antony blinken, who is of course in ukraine is the moment. he hasjust been of course in ukraine is the moment. he has just been speaking, of course in ukraine is the moment. he hasjust been speaking, so of course in ukraine is the moment. he has just been speaking, so let's have a quick listen. tt is he hasjust been speaking, so let's have a quick listen.— have a quick listen. it is so easy to sometimes _ have a quick listen. it is so easy to sometimes gets _ have a quick listen. it is so easy to sometimes gets lost - have a quick listen. it is so easy to sometimes gets lost in - to sometimes gets lost in distractions, numbers of how many people lost their lives or were wounded. but the larger effects are.
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—— what the larger effects are. but it all comes down to the human dimension, to the lives, the stories of men, women and children. like the men, women and children who were imprisoned in the basin of this building next to us, which normally was a school. —— in the basement. and were held there for a month, 127 people in a room not even fit for one person for human habitation. children as young as eight—month—old not allowed to come out, and this is just one building in one village, in one community, in ukraine. and this is a story that we have seen again, and again, and again.— and again, and again. well, let's brin: the and again, and again. well, let's bring the kernel— and again, and again. well, let's bring the kernel back _ and again, and again. well, let's bring the kernel back in. - and again, and again. well, let's bring the kernel back in. you - and again, and again. well, let's bring the kernel back in. you are listening to antony blinken there as well. another trip to ukraine. he
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has had number of trips to ukraine since the invasion. how critical do you think this trip is? —— colonel. absolutely critical. the us and the germans are providing the bulk of ammunition and hardware needed to defeat this illegal invasion. and the fact he is there reassuring ukrainians and also stating that the abrams tanks are on their way, and hopefully, more to follow, and the ammunition that is so much required to keep and sustained ukraine forces, is absolutely key. and let's hope that the rest of the western leaders back up what he is saying, and also back up the deeds, and make sure all the equipment is required. as i've said, it is the civilians who have suffered so terribly in ukraine, because the russians attack hospitals and schools directly, so anything we can give them, including depleted uranium rounds to ensure the defeat is as soon as possible is
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essential, but let's hope that this will be over soon, and that mr antony blinken doesn't need to go back again and doesn't need to give any more hardware and software to enable the ukrainians to defeat this illegal invasion.— enable the ukrainians to defeat this illegal invasion. thank you so much, former commander— illegal invasion. thank you so much, former commander of _ illegal invasion. thank you so much, former commander of the _ illegal invasion. thank you so much, former commander of the uk - illegal invasion. thank you so much, former commander of the uk and i illegal invasion. thank you so much, i former commander of the uk and nato cbr enforces. —— cbrn forces. around the world and across the uk. this is bbc news. bbc news — bringing you different stories from across the uk. you can wash your clothes, dry your clothes. but we've modernised it massively. there's been a big increase, mainly young people with families. and i think a lot of that is to do with the fact that you don't have to have cash to put into the machine. people are coming in with lots and lots of washing to do. doing it in a launderette,
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you can put three washing machine—fulls in one of these big washers. half an hour or 40 minutes later, it's all done. don't forget, you're using their machine, their electricity and their water. most people are on water meters, aren't they, these days? 0h, pete, me head. it's going round and - round just looking at it. the laundrette will always... people will always have a need to change clothes. so, you know, shopping may go online, everything else goes online, but actually, we'll wear clothes and we'll always wear clothes. for more stories from across the uk, head to the bbc news website. you're live with bbc news. the uk government has announced it will be rejoining the european union's horizon science research programme — after striking a post—brexit deal. it left the 100 billion euro — or £85 billion — programme when it left the eu bloc. let's speak now to lord martin rees. he's the uk's astronomer royal, and an astrophysicist and cosmologist based at the university of cambridge.
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it is good to have you on the programme with us. what is your reaction to this news? uk is now going to be back with horizon. tt is going to be back with horizon. it is a rare piece _ going to be back with horizon. it is a rare piece of— going to be back with horizon. tit 3 a rare piece of good news that will cheer up all scientists, notjust in the uk, but internationally. that we are back as a member of this horizon project, which is the largest collaborative group of scientists in the world, and of course, scientists international, and it has been frustrating that it has taken so long to add to sort out the agreements that has been announced this morning to bring us back into this morning to bring us back into this european community. —— science is international. many of our collaborators are in europe, and many projects require the expertise for more than one country, so it is good news, and i think there is rare degree of agreement in the
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scientific ability that we are glad to be back in. for scientific ability that we are glad to be back in.— to be back in. for those not necessarily _ to be back in. for those not necessarily sick _ to be back in. for those not necessarily sick dharmic - to be back in. for those not - necessarily sick dharmic familiar with the significance of horizon why is it important to be back and it's? —— for those not necessarily familiar. it -- for those not necessarily familiar-— -- for those not necessarily familiar. ., ., ., ., ., familiar. it allowed a coordination between countries _ familiar. it allowed a coordination between countries which - familiar. it allowed a coordination between countries which was - familiar. it allowed a coordination between countries which was not | between countries which was not necessarily easy to organise. many important projects in biology and in physics involve people in dharmic with expertise spread across europe, and if you want to collaborate successfully with a newer, and be a match for the us, which is a far bigger country, then we need to have collaboration and encourage edge. the horizon programme has been very, very successful in forging and strengthening collaborations across europe, and this supports the exchange of academics and students, among european universities and research institutes. if i can say one other thing, it is notjust european scientists that are happy
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about this. i know that some of the exit enthusiasts said that we should emphasise more strongly getting talent from north america and asia, and for some reason, they fought it was best not to be in horizon if you want to do this, but that is absolutely not the case. because if you are a young scientist in say, india, and you wanted to move to somewhere in the west, then you would be more likely to come to the west and to england, knowing that we are in the european union, and because if you were thought to be isolated from the rest of europe, that would be a deterrent, and no dharmic nubile young talent from around the world would avoid the uk and go to canada or somewhere else instead. it will strengthen the aspirations of uk to be a so—called site superpower by the end of the decade. what i good all around,
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although i was reading somewhere that this actually does mean though that this actually does mean though that the uk won't be joining some of the nuclear research alliances. white is that?— the nuclear research alliances. white isthat? ., _ white is that? will obviously, there were some horse _ white is that? will obviously, there were some horse trading, - white is that? will obviously, there were some horse trading, with - white is that? will obviously, there l were some horse trading, with some deal, and will be part of your atom, which is the european consortium which is the european consortium which is the european consortium which is nuclear energy, but we do have quite a strong programme with nuclear fusion ourselves. have quite a strong programme with nuclearfusion ourselves. —— have quite a strong programme with nuclear fusion ourselves. —— why is that? one piece of good news is that we arejoining something that? one piece of good news is that we are joining something called the copernicus programme, which is a programme that satellites to monitor the and the climate. we were unfortunately excluded from that during the last four years, and incidentally, it has been frustrating it is taken so long to get this agreement, so we do welcome metals dharmic edge. —— welcome it. something we were also excluded from wasn't because galileo, which is something like gps for such, and this is a european agreement on
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satellites, and we're still not in that, because of some of the security implications. as of course, the european space agency exists under a european protocol. it wasn't involved in the u you, so that unfortunately has been unaffected by these changes. —— so that unfortunately. —— involved in the eu. also with some of the expense of science is what we have to collaborate. the particle accelerator at stern in geneva, which is the board is best, has a consortium of people that have been in, and are still in, and there is alsoa in, and are still in, and there is also a consortium of astronomers who when i collected a building the bass biggest telescope in south america, and we are now still in that. —— do what's bigger telescope. just and we are now still in that. -- do what's bigger telescope.— what's bigger telescope. just to sa , we what's bigger telescope. just to say. we have — what's bigger telescope. just to say, we have just _ what's bigger telescope. just to say, we have just had _ what's bigger telescope. just to l say, we have just had some copy what's bigger telescope. just to - say, we have just had some copy that has come in from downing street to come up with the prime minister's official spokesman saying it was a conscious choice not to,
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participate, which you are talking about. he said that the government was committed to international collaboration in global fusion was committed to international collaboration in globalfusion in due course. what other ways can the uk collaborate when it comes to nuclear fusion and research uk collaborate when it comes to nuclearfusion and research in uk collaborate when it comes to nuclear fusion and research in that area? ~ ., _, , , area? well, of course, it is indeed the case that _ area? well, of course, it is indeed the case that we _ area? well, of course, it is indeed the case that we have _ area? well, of course, it is indeed the case that we have a _ the case that we have a self—sustaining fusion community. we are involved in one very large collaboration called it er, which is double's biggest fusion test project, in the south of france. —— which is the world's. the exciting thing about fusion is that there are several private companies developing different designs, and it is a competitive commercial project, although any commercial payoff is a long way away. i think this is something that is good that it is flourishing and uk. we have lost
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progress in nuclearfission, and we can't build any nuclear power stations, may be in the next generation, if fusion becomes feasible, we will have a leading position again.— feasible, we will have a leading position again. lord martin rees, astronomer— position again. lord martin rees, astronomer royal, _ position again. lord martin rees, astronomer royal, thank - position again. lord martin rees, astronomer royal, thank you - position again. lord martin rees, astronomer royal, thank you for| astronomer royal, thank you for joining us. astronomer royal, thank you for joining us— astronomer royal, thank you for joining us._ staying i astronomer royal, thank you for i joining us._ staying with joining us. thank you. staying with our science — joining us. thank you. staying with our science team, _ joining us. thank you. staying with our science team, let's _ joining us. thank you. staying with our science team, let's bring - joining us. thank you. staying with our science team, let's bring you l our science team, let's bring you new news from japan. japan has launched a rocket carrying a small lunar lander. this is the moment the craft left the center, south of the island of kyushu. japan's hoping the mission will successfully touch down on the near side of the moon early next year. if it does, it'll become just the fifth country to reach the lunar surface.
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a piano used by freddie mercury to compose some of queen's biggest hits has been sold at auction for £1.7 million. bohemian rhapsody, killer queen and don't stop me now were among the songs he wrote at the yamaha baby grand, which he kept in his london home. more on that and the rest of the day's news, on the bbc website.
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the government order virgin reviews after the jailbreak by a terror suspect in south london —— orders reviews. khalife is still on the run. ~ ., reviews. khalife is still on the run, ~ ., ., reviews. khalife is still on the run. . ., ., , reviews. khalife is still on the run. ~ ., ., , ., reviews. khalife is still on the run. ., ., , ., ., run. who was on duty that morning? and what roles? _ run. who was on duty that morning? and what roles? from _ run. who was on duty that morning? and what roles? from the _ run. who was on duty that morning? and what roles? from the kitchen i run. who was on duty that morning? and what roles? from the kitchen to the prison gate. were the protocols followed? ., ., , ., ., followed? khalife was awaiting trial for leavin: followed? khalife was awaiting trial for leaving fake _ followed? khalife was awaiting trial for leaving fake bombs _ followed? khalife was awaiting trial for leaving fake bombs at _ followed? khalife was awaiting trial for leaving fake bombs at a - followed? khalife was awaiting trial for leaving fake bombs at a military base and thought to be gathering information for iran. network rail pleads guilty to health and safety failings over a derailment which killed three people. britain rejoins the eu's horizon research programme. we revisit the
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