where you can have your say on the biggest stories of the moment. should we save the high street? the dramatic collapse of wilko will see it shut 2a stores across the uk in the first phase of closures. it's a sad and sorry decline. it's added to the concerns of the boss ofjohn lewis, dame sharon white. she says our high streets risk becoming overrun with vacant shops and a "looting grounds" for crime. how do we bring for full and vitality back to your high street, your town centre? think of those shops we have cherished and loved

and lost, although shops and outlets that are transformed and change. woolworths, littlewoods, the style jerk. hmv, dorothy perkins, miss selfridge, and local shops. so much a part of my life growing up. many more growing up. but that is capitalism. some retailers like marks & spencer is have relocated, some retailers are doing well, thank you very much. this is a changing world, we've moved online. your thoughts will be fascinating. get in touch. this will be so raw for wilko employees, but what has gone wrong there? please do get in touch,

should we say the high street? what is your takeaway, literally? here is the news. a study of nhs staff has found female surgeons say they have been sexually harassed by colleagues. nearly two thirds of the 700 women who responded to a survey said they had faced unwanted attention, the third said they had been sexually assaulted. the latest official figures show wage growth has caught up with inflation for the first time in nearly two years. the office for national statistics says pay excluding bonuses rose by 7.8% between may and july compared to one

year ago. 2a wilko stores will close at the end of today, the first of 400 jobs likely to shut after a rescue deal collapse. more than 12,000 staff are expected to lose theirjobs. the leader of north korea has arrived in russia to meet president putin. the us believes the leaders will finalise an arms deal to help russia's war in ukraine. should we say the high street? it should adapt and change, do we accept things will never be the same again? is reality being clouded, has ourjudgment being clouded? there is much to be in the style jerk about. betting shops, charity shops ——

nostalgic about. some shops do well, some outlets thriving. the card factory, for example. brian mark doing well. what is the secret of their success? strong performances from zara. 08085 909693, 85058. we have all been there, some of us prefer to go out of town shopping centres. there are so many issues, there is parking, rentals, interest rates, everything. let's go for it. bill grimsby, author of the

vanishing high street. and jenny hill, who helps on the high street. and lisa, with you shortly, lisa. welcome, bill. vanishing high street. what has happened, and what do we do? ten street. what has happened, and what do we do? , ., , street. what has happened, and what do we do? , . , ., ., ., do we do? ten years ago i wrote the book which — do we do? ten years ago i wrote the book which sold _ do we do? ten years ago i wrote the book which sold out, _ do we do? ten years ago i wrote the book which sold out, and _ do we do? ten years ago i wrote the book which sold out, and i _ do we do? ten years ago i wrote the book which sold out, and i issued i do we do? ten years ago i wrote the book which sold out, and i issued to| book which sold out, and i issued to government the grimsby review. it is ten years ago to this month. that review concluded government needed to wake up to the fact our high street could no longer rely on retail as the main reason to go to town centres. the 21st—century was going to need is to reshape our town centres to make them attractive to go to and to turn them into a

community hub based on health, education, education, leisure, experiences. engage with technology, but more importantly own do what we did in the 20th century. i was part of it. we destroyed the high street in the 20th century, but prior to that, we also cloned every town in the country. they all look the same, there was no differential. now, because we've got out of town retailing, and because of the advent of online shopping, our town centres can no longer rely on retail as the main purpose. what we said is you need to put together a town centre commission so that we look at how we can provide local authorities predominantly with a model which says this is how you might produce a

20 year plan which will be your plan, different to everybody�*s, in order to make your town attractive, to live, work and visit and compete with others. and to brand your town base of your heritage or whatever it might be, and to make them all unique and ready for the 21st—century and embrace technology. unfortunately, not the government didn't do that... white marker they had their strategy, the high street strategy in 2021, which had some marvellous, bold words in it, and a fair bit of money. they have been on it. the amount of money they are putting behind, it is under the guise of levelling up. if you are a local authority, you don't get money

based on your population, your challenges. what you do is you get money based on what you submit. you submit a plan, money based on what you submit. you submita plan, you money based on what you submit. you submit a plan, you either get awarded it or you get nothing. we will get left behind towns, as a consequence, and the money will go to towns dubiously because they might be read walled towns that are marginal seats. might be read walled towns that are marginalseats. i'm might be read walled towns that are marginal seats. i'm afraid we published that in the disease marker review. ~ ., ., ., ., ., ., review. well, covid had a lot to do with it -- — review. well, covid had a lot to do with it -- covid — review. well, covid had a lot to do with it -- covid review. _ review. well, covid had a lot to do with it -- covid review. it - review. well, covid had a lot to do with it -- covid review. it is - review. well, covid had a lot to do with it -- covid review. it is worth| with it —— covid review. it is worth pointing out the less prosperous cities in other countries are those which are suffering most when it comes to the demise of the high street. the government said, in their strategy, street. the government said, in theirstrategy, new street. the government said, in their strategy, new high street has a g to transform town centres.

derelict buildings to be transformed, communities across the uk given the chance to earn their own pubs and theatres and sport grounds. it is a vision, it is a vision. is it a reality? just a quick one, before the calls, you say we destroyed the town centres in the 20th century. we destroyed the town centres in the 20th century-— 20th century. what do you mean? well, we 20th century. what do you mean? well. we went _ 20th century. what do you mean? well, we went out _ 20th century. what do you mean? well, we went out of— 20th century. what do you mean? well, we went out of town. - 20th century. what do you mean? well, we went out of town. i - 20th century. what do you mean? well, we went out of town. i was. well, we went out of town. i was part of it in the 1980s. we went out—of—town and basically people kept saying, oh, bring back our town centre, but you don't use it. you use your car and user convenience to use your car and user convenience to go use your car and user convenience to go out of town. i was the new store developer of tesco, doing all of that stuff in the 1980s. it is no good bemoaning the fact you don't have your high street. you can't hark back to the past. you need to face the challenges of the

21st—century and leave our kids and grandkids with a legacy which says, these towns have a purpose for communities to go to, for experiences, and in particularfor living, housing, and for health, education, entertainmentand education, entertainment and leisure. �* , ., , ., leisure. and planning comes into it as well. leisure. and planning comes into it as well- the _ leisure. and planning comes into it as well. the boss _ leisure. and planning comes into it as well. the boss of _ leisure. and planning comes into it as well. the boss of john _ leisure. and planning comes into it as well. the boss of john lewis - leisure. and planning comes into it| as well. the boss of john lewis and as well. the boss ofjohn lewis and waitrose, dame sharon white, spoke to the today programme on radio four. she said town centres should be the beating heart of our communities.— be the beating heart of our communities. ., ., , ., ., m communities. you only have to work down the high _ communities. you only have to work down the high streets, _ communities. you only have to work down the high streets, and - communities. you only have to work down the high streets, and aorta - communities. you only have to work down the high streets, and aorta be| down the high streets, and aorta be the beating hearts about communities. thatjoined up communities. that joined up nature ~~ _ communities. that joined up naturem -- _ communities. thatjoined up nature... —— they ought to be the

heating _ nature... —— they ought to be the beating hearts. unless all of it is looked _ beating hearts. unless all of it is looked at. — beating hearts. unless all of it is looked at, and a commission is the perfect _ looked at, and a commission is the perfect idea, you can bring businesses together, local authorities, government officials, towin— authorities, government officials, to join this — authorities, government officials, tojoin this thing authorities, government officials, to join this thing up so you have all the _ to join this thing up so you have all the pieces of the jigsaw in one place _ all the pieces of the 'igsaw in one lace. �* , ., place. 0k, lisa in belper, and helen and sarah. — place. 0k, lisa in belper, and helen and sarah. and _ place. 0k, lisa in belper, and helen and sarah, and jenny. _ place. 0k, lisa in belper, and helen and sarah, and jenny. good - place. 0k, lisa in belper, and helenl and sarah, and jenny. good morning, everybody. good morning. lisa, what is your experience as a small retailer? what do we need to do? do we go with the flow of capitalism washing it is right what has been said, town councils need to get together. said, town councils need to get touether. ., ., ., said, town councils need to get touether. ., ., , , together. there are good examples. we've not together. there are good examples. we've got one _ together. there are good examples. we've got one in _ together. there are good examples. we've got one in belper, _ together. there are good examples. we've got one in belper, and - together. there are good examples. we've got one in belper, and a - together. there are good examples. | we've got one in belper, and a town

council is involved in it, and so are the retailers. and the community groups. there's also another market town locally which have a similar organisation. i think it is about people in the local area getting together and actually promoting their area. and using the high street. we aren't online, we are literally a bricks and mortar shop. the things we sell are things people want to come in and squarish, touch and feel. you can't do that online. we hear a lot about customers who have gone online and have ordered things and it has come and it is not what they were expecting, not what it was put online as. we work together, we put on events, the town council is involved heavily. we wanted to be a destination for

people to come.— wanted to be a destination for --eole to come. g ., , ~ people to come. joined up thinking. somethin: people to come. joined up thinking. something you _ people to come. joined up thinking. something you don't _ people to come. joined up thinking. something you don't need - people to come. joined up thinking. something you don't need to - people to come. joined up thinking. | something you don't need to squish, for example, a book. find something you don't need to squish, for example, a book.— for example, a book. and the personal— for example, a book. and the personal touch. _ for example, a book. and the personal touch. customer- for example, a book. and the - personal touch. customer service is important. one of the things we've always done, we moved into ourfirst proper shop, always done, we moved into ourfirst propershop, because always done, we moved into ourfirst proper shop, because we started on the market, and we moved in, literally before the november lockdown. we were shutdown for nearly five months. we got all this hype ready and then we had five months of dead time. we had advertise our opening hours and we stuck to them, whether we had one customer or ten. there have been visitors who haven't. we did advertising. you get what you put

into it. as a small business, we've got a lot to work on.— got a lot to work on. helen will 'oin as. got a lot to work on. helen will join as- she — got a lot to work on. helen will join as. she might _ got a lot to work on. helen will join as. she might recognise i got a lot to work on. helen will i join as. she might recognise this stuff. helen, neatly sir. helen, need everybody else. on you go. i need everybody else. on you go. i would agree with everything you guys have said _ would agree with everything you guys have said. we are in the yorkshire dales. _ have said. we are in the yorkshire dales. i_ have said. we are in the yorkshire dales, i don't think we have a dales, idon't think we have a county— dales, i don't think we have a county council you meet people and have a _ county council you meet people and have a chat — county council you meet people and have a chat and something happens. that is— have a chat and something happens. that is how— have a chat and something happens. that is how it goes here. we are 'ust that is how it goes here. we are just planning... every business is independent here. we have no empty shops _ independent here. we have no empty shops we _ independent here. we have no empty shops. we are well supported, both by iocaim _ shops. we are well supported, both by local... and customers who are friends _ by local... and customers who are friends that — by local... and customers who are friends that we've gained over the years _ friends that we've gained over the years i_ friends that we've gained over the

years. i have had my shops for 18 years— years. i have had my shops for 18 years now — years. i have had my shops for 18 years now. it hasn't been an easy sale, _ years now. it hasn't been an easy sale, believe me. but you work at it. sale, believe me. but you work at it and _ sale, believe me. but you work at it. and things go wrong, you try something — it. and things go wrong, you try something different. we've not traded — something different. we've not traded online for quite some time. we have _ traded online for quite some time. we have a — traded online for quite some time. we have a new website being built. i would _ we have a new website being built. i would suggest it will be more of an advert— would suggest it will be more of an advert than people can sort of click and huy~ _ advert than people can sort of click and buy. we tend to do things via whatsapp, so a customer won something, i'd go around with my phone, _ something, i'd go around with my phone, show it. if they like it, they— phone, show it. if they like it, they pay— phone, show it. if they like it, they pay for it. phone, show it. if they like it, they pay for it— phone, show it. if they like it, they pay for it. that is how i work. what is your— they pay for it. that is how i work. what is your shop? _ they pay for it. that is how i work. what is your shop? sorry, - they pay for it. that is how i work. what is your shop? sorry, nikki, l they pay for it. that is how i work. what is your shop? sorry, nikki, i| what is your shop? sorry, nikki, i can't hear— what is your shop? sorry, nikki, i can't hearyou- — what is your shop? sorry, nikki, i can't hear you. what _ what is your shop? sorry, nikki, i can't hear you. what can - what is your shop? sorry, nikki, i can't hear you. what can i - what is your shop? sorry, nikki, i can't hear you. what can i get - what is your shop? sorry, nikki, i can't hear you. what can i get at i can't hear you. what can i get at our can't hear you. what can i get at your shop? _ can't hear you. what can i get at your shop? l _ can't hear you. what can i get at your shop? i am _ can't hear you. what can i get at your shop? i am a _ can't hear you. what can i get at your shop? i am a home - can't hear you. what can i get at your shop? i am a home and - can't hear you. what can i get at. your shop? i am a home and gifts sho -. we your shop? i am a home and gifts shop- we mainly _ your shop? i am a home and gifts shop. we mainly sell _ your shop? i am a home and gifts shop. we mainly sell leather- your shop? i am a home and gifts| shop. we mainly sell leather bags and sheepskin rugs. everything in

the shap. — and sheepskin rugs. everything in the shop, down to the cards i choose — the shop, down to the cards i choose i_ the shop, down to the cards i choose. i use british, yorkshire suppliers— choose. i use british, yorkshire suppliers if— choose. i use british, yorkshire suppliers if i can, british, most definitely _ suppliers if i can, british, most definitely. and i care about what i sell: _ definitely. and i care about what i sell. and — definitely. and i care about what i sell. and i— definitely. and i care about what i sell, and i am knowledgeable, and so are my— sell, and i am knowledgeable, and so are my staff — sell, and i am knowledgeable, and so are my staff-— are my staff. what i am hearing is a hoenix are my staff. what i am hearing is a phoenix rising _ are my staff. what i am hearing is a phoenix rising from _ are my staff. what i am hearing is a phoenix rising from the _ are my staff. what i am hearing is a phoenix rising from the ashes, - are my staff. what i am hearing is al phoenix rising from the ashes, there a form of regeneration. {illny phoenix rising from the ashes, there a form of regeneration.— a form of regeneration. guys like ou. a form of regeneration. guys like you. definitely. _ a form of regeneration. guys like you. definitely. i— a form of regeneration. guys like you. definitely. iwould- a form of regeneration. guys like you. definitely. iwould agree. i you. definitely. iwould agree. peole you. definitely. iwould agree. people are _ you. definitely. iwould agree. people are sick— you. definitely. iwould agree. people are sick of _ you. definitely. iwould agree. people are sick of buying - you. definitely. iwould agree.| people are sick of buying cheap rubbish — people are sick of buying cheap rubbish. they would prefer to spend a little _ rubbish. they would prefer to spend a little bit _ rubbish. they would prefer to spend a little bit more and get something that is— a little bit more and get something that is better quality. i would suggest _ that is better quality. i would suggest perhaps footfall is a little less, suggest perhaps footfall is a little less. but — suggest perhaps footfall is a little less, but that could be down to the weather _ less, but that could be down to the weather up — less, but that could be down to the weather up here because it is very wild at— weather up here because it is very wild at the — weather up here because it is very wild at the best of times. but we are a _ wild at the best of times. but we are a destination place, and for many— are a destination place, and for

many reasons. we have the wensleydale creamery, that is a big hole _ wensleydale creamery, that is a big hole. sometimes it is trying to get the people into the town, because it is slightly— the people into the town, because it is slightly up the road. just slightly _ is slightly up the road. just slightly. we have sheep in the field, — slightly. we have sheep in the field, and _ slightly. we have sheep in the field, and i'm looking at them now. it is field, and i'm looking at them now. it is a _ field, and i'm looking at them now. it is a very— field, and i'm looking at them now. it is a very relaxed approach. you ut our it is a very relaxed approach. you put your finger — it is a very relaxed approach. you put your finger on _ it is a very relaxed approach. ym. put your finger on something, this is a destination town. what about those places which aren't? we are getting into tales of two britains. what if it is a town which has a lot of problems in the first place, and it is not a town with a lot of economic regeneration going on? you can't force it- — economic regeneration going on? you can't force it. you need that spark, that one _ can't force it. you need that spark, that one person... we started a while _ that one person... we started a while back— that one person... we started a while back and it was a small group of people _ while back and it was a small group of people that acted as the start. you've _ of people that acted as the start.

you've got— of people that acted as the start. you've got to find the spark within the community. it could be a group, it doesn't— the community. it could be a group, it doesn't have to be a retailer. 0k, _ it doesn't have to be a retailer. 0k. but— it doesn't have to be a retailer. 0k. but is— it doesn't have to be a retailer. 0k. but is it _ it doesn't have to be a retailer. ok, but is it possible in every community, given the different challenges? we've got simon. is the high street in terminal decline? trio. high street in terminal decline? no, it is not. high street in terminal decline? no, it is not- the — high street in terminal decline? idfr, it is not. the high street is evolving. it has evolved over hundreds of years. i look after a business improvement district. every business improvement district. every business person business rate into a pot and they look to help the district also it improves the town. like your last caller, we are focused on destination. we want to make it a town where people come to. we need to make sure the business owners focus on the town as being an experienced, rather than

transaction. it is taken over with amazon and online shopping. we need to make sure people come here because it is really nice. we get investment of around £90,000 a year, but because we are big, we managed to bring in an extra £250,000 this year alone. we have new spaces, we've regenerated the area. we had a fantastic festival over the weekend, and ijust drew people in and puts us as a destination as a place where people buy things. we us as a destination as a place where people buy things-— people buy things. i've got a whiteboard _ people buy things. i've got a whiteboard going _ people buy things. i've got a whiteboard going on - people buy things. i've got a whiteboard going on in - people buy things. i've got a whiteboard going on in my i people buy things. i've got a - whiteboard going on in my mind, people buy things. i've got a _ whiteboard going on in my mind, some phrases we got from lisa and also from helen and your good self. we've got a destination city, and we've got a destination city, and we've got an experience, rather than a transaction. this is interesting.

and sarah is with us in doncaster. butjenny lewis, chair of tonbridge town team. we have you envision if people are watching. there is a fair bit of optimism going on, hope for the future, people can surf the waves of change if they have the right vision. 1 waves of change if they have the right vision-— right vision. i think so, yes. the hiuh right vision. i think so, yes. the high street _ right vision. i think so, yes. the high street has _ right vision. i think so, yes. the high street has evolved. - right vision. i think so, yes. the high street has evolved. you i right vision. i think so, yes. the i high street has evolved. you can't -et high street has evolved. you can't get away— high street has evolved. you can't get away from the move to online shopping — get away from the move to online shopping. that is costing us our chain— shopping. that is costing us our chain stores and big shops. but where — chain stores and big shops. but where you _ chain stores and big shops. but where you see a6 at what town centre. — where you see a6 at what town centre. it — where you see a6 at what town centre, it is full of independent shops, — centre, it is full of independent shops, which is the lifeblood. you io shops, which is the lifeblood. you go to— shops, which is the lifeblood. you go to the — shops, which is the lifeblood. you go to the high street for what you can't _ go to the high street for what you can't buy— go to the high street for what you can't buy online, and that is your independent shops. we have some successful— independent shops. we have some successful shops in tonbridge, that is the _ successful shops in tonbridge, that is the reason we haven't declined as barley— is the reason we haven't declined as barley in_ is the reason we haven't declined as barley in other places. what are they— barley in other places. what are they doing right? they are

diversifying, they got through the pandemic by trying different things. we had _ pandemic by trying different things. we had a _ pandemic by trying different things. we had a shop which was gift and homewares and they now have a little cafe. they've accepted people go to the high— cafe. they've accepted people go to the high street for leisure, a coffee — the high street for leisure, a coffee with friends. they've adapted it for the _ coffee with friends. they've adapted it for the way people are using the hi-h it for the way people are using the high street. is it for the way people are using the high street-— it for the way people are using the | high street-_ lt high street. is parking an issue? it can be. high street. is parking an issue? it can be- there _ high street. is parking an issue? it can be. there isn't _ high street. is parking an issue? it can be. there isn't anywhere i high street. is parking an issue? it can be. there isn't anywhere to i high street. is parking an issue? it. can be. there isn't anywhere to park for free _ can be. there isn't anywhere to park for free we — can be. there isn't anywhere to park for free. we have free parking on sundays. — for free. we have free parking on sundays, which helps, but parking costs— sundays, which helps, but parking costs are — sundays, which helps, but parking costs are going up. the cost of living _ costs are going up. the cost of living is— costs are going up. the cost of living is going up, and park and goes _ living is going up, and park and goes up— living is going up, and park and goes up alongside it.— living is going up, and park and goes up alongside it. anyone want to come back on — goes up alongside it. anyone want to come back on that? _ goes up alongside it. anyone want to come back on that? we've _ goes up alongside it. anyone want to come back on that? we've seen i goes up alongside it. anyone want to | come back on that? we've seen other towns where — come back on that? we've seen other towns where they've _ come back on that? we've seen other towns where they've lost _ come back on that? we've seen other towns where they've lost their - come back on that? we've seen other towns where they've lost their free i towns where they've lost their free parking, whether town centres have declined because there is no free parking. we still have hours, and hopefully that will last for a long time. we are all convinced that if it goes, it will affect the footfall

in the town, both for visitors and for the people who work in the shops. it is an added cost of their wages. it shops. it is an added cost of their wanes. , shops. it is an added cost of their wanes. . . shops. it is an added cost of their wanes. , ., ~ wages. it is all free parking in the actual town _ wages. it is all free parking in the actual town itself _ wages. it is all free parking in the actual town itself here. _ wages. it is all free parking in the actual town itself here. there i wages. it is all free parking in the actual town itself here. there are | actual town itself here. there are lots of _ actual town itself here. there are lots of places _ actual town itself here. there are lots of places to _ actual town itself here. there are lots of places to park. _ actual town itself here. there are lots of places to park. when i actual town itself here. there are lots of places to park. when it i actual town itself here. there are i lots of places to park. when it gets busy we _ lots of places to park. when it gets busy we have — lots of places to park. when it gets busy we have a _ lots of places to park. when it gets busy we have a very _ lots of places to park. when it gets busy we have a very big _ lots of places to park. when it gets busy we have a very big car- lots of places to park. when it gets busy we have a very big car park. busy we have a very big car park here _ busy we have a very big car park here i_ busy we have a very big car park here i mean. _ busy we have a very big car park here. i mean, it— busy we have a very big car park here. i mean, it is— busy we have a very big car park here. i mean, it is a— busy we have a very big car park here. i mean, it is a few- busy we have a very big car park here. i mean, it is a few quid i busy we have a very big car park here. i mean, it is a few quid to| here. i mean, it is a few quid to park. _ here. i mean, it is a few quid to park. we— here. i mean, it is a few quid to park. we have _ here. i mean, it is a few quid to park, we have the _ here. i mean, it is a few quid to park, we have the national- here. i mean, it is a few quid to park, we have the national car. here. i mean, it is a few quid to. park, we have the national car park as well _ park, we have the national car park as well it — park, we have the national car park as well it is — park, we have the national car park as well. it is not _ park, we have the national car park as well. it is not silly— park, we have the national car park as well. it is not silly money. - park, we have the national car park as well. it is not silly money. our. as well. it is not silly money. our traffic— as well. it is not silly money. our traffic warden— as well. it is not silly money. our traffic warden comes _ as well. it is not silly money. our traffic warden comes from - as well. it is not silly money. our traffic warden comes from as i as well. it is not silly money. our traffic warden comes from as farl as well. it is not silly money. our. traffic warden comes from as far as scarborough — traffic warden comes from as far as scarborough. providing... - traffic warden comes from as far as scarborough. providing... some. traffic warden comes from as far as . scarborough. providing... some days you can _ scarborough. providing... some days you can win— scarborough. providing... some days you can win yet~ _ scarborough. providing... some days you can win yet i— scarborough. providing... some days you can win yet-— you can win yet. i am not condoning that behaviour _ you can win yet. i am not condoning that behaviour -- _ you can win yet. i am not condoning that behaviour -- wing _ you can win yet. i am not condoning that behaviour -- wing it. _ you can win yet. i am not condoning that behaviour -- wing it. many i that behaviour —— wing it. many wilko shops are in traditional town

centres, and these town centres are convenient with shoppers without cars. since the pandemic there's been a shift to retail parks, out—of—town spaces, which has benefited the rivals of wilko, like beyond them. it was rumoured that b&m would take over. what a desperate time for wilko. anonymity if you require. why did it all go wrong question sarah, your thoughts on the high street?— on the high street? various things to talk about. _ on the high street? various things to talk about. in _ on the high street? various things to talk about. in doncaster, i on the high street? various things to talk about. in doncaster, there | to talk about. in doncaster, there are few places for free parking. it

is ok if you got a disabled badge, there are places you can park for free. you've got to park in a disabled place. if there isn't one, you are stuffed, for want of a better phrasing. as far as the out—of—town retail parks go, if you live at the other end of town, you pass two on your way. the parking is free in those places. why would you go into the town centre, take parking to get something you can get in a retail park, where it is free parking? normally you don't have to deal with the same number of crowds so i've got anxiety, quite bad at

times, around people. iwent so i've got anxiety, quite bad at times, around people. i went into town today. not today, saturday. sorry. i went in with my partner. we went in for a couple of specific things we couldn't get elsewhere. we had to go into the town centre. we did the shop and i was like, can we just go, because i've honed enough? we went home —— i've had enough. if we were to go to a retail park, i can quite happily do a few shops there, and even potentially move onto the next retail park. you sound re onto the next retail park. you sound pretty familiar _ onto the next retail park. you sound pretty familiar to — onto the next retail park. you sound pretty familiar to someone - onto the next retail park. you sound pretty familiar to someone in - onto the next retail park. you sound pretty familiar to someone in my i pretty familiar to someone in my life. it is something about the space out—of—town. the life. it is something about the space out-of-town._ life. it is something about the space out-of-town. the thing is, brin . in . space out-of-town. the thing is, bringing in _ space out-of-town. the thing is, bringing in the — space out-of-town. the thing is, bringing in the point _ space out-of-town. the thing is, bringing in the point of—

space out-of-town. the thing is, bringing in the point of online i bringing in the point of online shopping, it is like, i think amazon has contributed to the death of the high street because in doncaster, it is... they built retail units. technically it is in the town centre but out of the way a bit. they are all empty, shops and the shopping centre, there are a few in their empty. you canjust see it getting, you can see a declining in front of your eyes. every time i go into town, it isjust, oh, didn't that use the that shop questio oh, such and such has close oh, let me bring someone in.

and such has close oh, let me bring someone in-— and such has close oh, let me bring someone in. lisa, very quickly. with sho -s someone in. lisa, very quickly. with shops becoming _ someone in. lisa, very quickly. with shops becoming empty, _ someone in. lisa, very quickly. with shops becoming empty, a _ someone in. lisa, very quickly. with shops becoming empty, a lot - someone in. lisa, very quickly. with shops becoming empty, a lot of- someone in. lisa, very quickly. with shops becoming empty, a lot of it i someone in. lisa, very quickly. with shops becoming empty, a lot of it isj shops becoming empty, a lot of it is down _ shops becoming empty, a lot of it is down to— shops becoming empty, a lot of it is down to the — shops becoming empty, a lot of it is down to the landlords as well. in some _ down to the landlords as well. in some cases, landlords not advertising the property is available. and then filling them and then hiking the rents up, instead of giving _ then hiking the rents up, instead of giving businesses chances to establish themselves and make that move _ establish themselves and make that move onto _ establish themselves and make that move onto the high street. it is a huge. _ move onto the high street. it is a huge. huge — move onto the high street. it is a huge, hugejump. we'vejust done that in_ huge, hugejump. we'vejust done that in the — huge, hugejump. we'vejust done that in the last four weeks. we only -ot that in the last four weeks. we only got the _ that in the last four weeks. we only got the lease on the 1st of august. we've _ got the lease on the 1st of august. we've gone from being in a little incubation— we've gone from being in a little incubation unit to the high street. and. _ incubation unit to the high street. and. oh. — incubation unit to the high street. and, oh, my god, it is a shock. if you've _ and, oh, my god, it is a shock. if you've got — and, oh, my god, it is a shock. if you've got little businesses that have _ you've got little businesses that have started small, you need the business — have started small, you need the business incubation units, but you need _ business incubation units, but you need them — business incubation units, but you need them to be advertise and help to advertise the business and make

it somewhere people want to go. again. _ it somewhere people want to go. again. a — it somewhere people want to go. again, a destination, and experience. it needs to remain full to give _ experience. it needs to remain full to give those businesses a chance to do what _ to give those businesses a chance to do what they want to do. let to give those businesses a chance to do what they want to do.— do what they want to do. let me ask ou all do what they want to do. let me ask you all another— do what they want to do. let me ask you all another aspect. _ do what they want to do. let me ask you all another aspect. it _ do what they want to do. let me ask you all another aspect. it was i you all another aspect. it was perhaps remiss of me to leave it out of my intro at the beginning. it is pointed out by this text, which says, in all of the intro, not a syllable about shoplifting, and issue of the high street. dame sharon white has talked about looting grounds for shoplifters. the asda chairman saint shoplifting has become decriminalised because of a lack of police action. an incredible testimony of people who worked in stores. as a general point, is it getting worse for you guys who run shops, such as helen and lisa? and

simon as well, you can contribute as well. he wants to come in? how much of a problem is it question can i jump of a problem is it question can i jump in. of a problem is it question can i 'um in. . of a problem is it question can i 'um in. , ,, ., of a problem is it question can i 'um in, , ., .. ~ �* of a problem is it question can i 'umin. , ,, ., . �* ., ., of a problem is it question can i 'umin. , ,, ., . �* ., jump in. yes, simon. we've got a big tesco. jump in. yes, simon. we've got a big tesco- we — jump in. yes, simon. we've got a big tesco- we also _ jump in. yes, simon. we've got a big tesco. we also have _ jump in. yes, simon. we've got a big tesco. we also have smaller- jump in. yes, simon. we've got a big tesco. we also have smaller stores. | tesco. we also have smaller stores. we work _ tesco. we also have smaller stores. we work with — tesco. we also have smaller stores. we work with a _ tesco. we also have smaller stores. we work with a neighbourhood - tesco. we also have smaller stores. | we work with a neighbourhood team. last week. _ we work with a neighbourhood team. last week, because _ we work with a neighbourhood team. last week, because of _ we work with a neighbourhood team. last week, because of our _ last week, because of our intelligence, _ last week, because of our intelligence, we _ last week, because of our intelligence, we managedj last week, because of our i intelligence, we managed to last week, because of our - intelligence, we managed to get a stakeout _ intelligence, we managed to get a stakeout into _ intelligence, we managed to get a stakeout into one _ intelligence, we managed to get a stakeout into one of _ intelligence, we managed to get a stakeout into one of our— intelligence, we managed to get a stakeout into one of our stores, i stakeout into one of our stores, which _ stakeout into one of our stores, which reclaim _ stakeout into one of our stores, which reclaim £12,000 - stakeout into one of our stores, which reclaim £12,000 worth i stakeout into one of our stores, which reclaim £12,000 worth ofj which reclaim £12,000 worth of stolen _ which reclaim £12,000 worth of stolen goods _ which reclaim £12,000 worth of stolen goods. it _ which reclaim £12,000 worth of stolen goods. it is _ which reclaim £12,000 worth of stolen goods. it is a _ which reclaim £12,000 worth of stolen goods. it is a real- which reclaim £12,000 worth of. stolen goods. it is a real problem. a lot _ stolen goods. it is a real problem. a lot of— stolen goods. it is a real problem. a lot of security— stolen goods. it is a real problem. a lot of security guards _ stolen goods. it is a real problem. a lot of security guards are - stolen goods. it is a real problem. a lot of security guards are told i a lot of security guards are told not to _ a lot of security guards are told not to challenge _ a lot of security guards are told not to challenge shoplifters i a lot of security guards are told i not to challenge shoplifters because of the _ not to challenge shoplifters because of the issue — not to challenge shoplifters because of the issue. but _ not to challenge shoplifters because of the issue. but working _ not to challenge shoplifters because of the issue. but working with - not to challenge shoplifters because of the issue. but working with the i of the issue. but working with the business — of the issue. but working with the business improvement— of the issue. but working with the business improvement districts i of the issue. but working with the i business improvement districts and

the neighbourhood, _ business improvement districts and the neighbourhood, and _ business improvement districts and the neighbourhood, and getting i business improvement districts and j the neighbourhood, and getting the intelligence — the neighbourhood, and getting the intelligence from _ the neighbourhood, and getting the intelligence from the _ the neighbourhood, and getting the intelligence from the police, - the neighbourhood, and getting the intelligence from the police, we i the neighbourhood, and getting thej intelligence from the police, we can tackle _ intelligence from the police, we can tackle it~ _ intelligence from the police, we can tackle it we — intelligence from the police, we can tackle it. we have _ intelligence from the police, we can tackle it. we have to— intelligence from the police, we can tackle it. we have to work- intelligence from the police, we can| tackle it. we have to work together. we aren't _ tackle it. we have to work together. we aren't independent— tackle it. we have to work together. we aren't independent businesses, i tackle it. we have to work together. i we aren't independent businesses, we have to _ we aren't independent businesses, we have to work— we aren't independent businesses, we have to work together— we aren't independent businesses, we have to work together as _ we aren't independent businesses, we have to work together as a _ we aren't independent businesses, we have to work together as a group. i you do, you do have to work together. we have a facebook page, a private facebook page for businesses in the town and if somebody spots anything we posted there on the police are notified. is it anything we posted there on the police are notified.— police are notified. is it getting worse? i know _ police are notified. is it getting worse? i know for _ police are notified. is it getting worse? i know for a _ police are notified. is it getting worse? i know for a fact i police are notified. is it getting worse? i know for a fact that i police are notified. is it getting i worse? i know for a fact that there are 9"°ups — worse? i know for a fact that there are 9"°ups out _ worse? i know for a fact that there are groups out there _ worse? i know for a fact that there are groups out there on _ worse? i know for a fact that there are groups out there on social i worse? i know for a fact that there i are groups out there on social media that shoplifters set up a news. they -et that shoplifters set up a news. they get taken _ that shoplifters set up a news. they get taken down but they spring up agaih _ get taken down but they spring up aaain. w get taken down but they spring up aaain. a a ,, , again. tick-tock? tick-tock is full of it and they _ again. tick-tock? tick-tock is full of it and they have _ again. tick-tock? tick-tock is full of it and they have a _ again. tick-tock? tick-tock is full of it and they have a euphemism | again. tick-tock? tick-tock is full i of it and they have a euphemism for tips on borrowing so that the algorithm doesn't clamp down on them. let's go to mel in birmingham

and is a part of this and i will... is multifaceted. good morning, wayne. you quit retail 12 years ago, you've seen it all, come and go, what you want to say? i you've seen it all, come and go, what you want to say?— you've seen it all, come and go, what you want to say? i think the roblem what you want to say? i think the problem is _ what you want to say? i think the problem is firstly _ what you want to say? i think the problem is firstly so _ what you want to say? i think the problem is firstly so many - problem is firstly so many businesses were not willing to change with online shopping. i had a senior role for a company 12 years ago and i left to re—employ. customer service and when you go to out—of—town units which look great, you look how many staffers inside. the staffing levels are so low and it shows how much those companies are making. when it comes to out—of—town retail i think out—of—town retail i think out—of—town is dead in the water. died. i used to work for a company were on a saturday in an out—of—town store we would have 60 members of staff fully trained on the floor and now i can go to the store now and

it's a tenth of the staff and another no anything. so why should i go to the high street or the town centre to go in the shop?- go to the high street or the town centre to go in the shop? there is no customer _ centre to go in the shop? there is no customer service. _ centre to go in the shop? there is no customer service. here - centre to go in the shop? there is no customer service. here is i centre to go in the shop? there is no customer service. here is mel| centre to go in the shop? there is i no customer service. here is mel in birmingham. you work in retailfor a long time. i birmingham. you work in retail for a lona time. ., ~' ., :: long time. i worked in retail20 ears long time. i worked in retail20 years and _ long time. i worked in retail20 years and l— long time. i worked in retail20 years and i was _ long time. i worked in retail20 years and i was made - long time. i worked in retail 20 | years and i was made redundant long time. i worked in retail 20 i years and i was made redundant and it isn't— years and i was made redundant and it isn't nice _ years and i was made redundant and it isn't nice to be out of a job and i understand and what we need to do and look— i understand and what we need to do and look at _ i understand and what we need to do and look at why. why are we making money _ and look at why. why are we making money in _ and look at why. why are we making money in retail? a lot of it is due to the _ money in retail? a lot of it is due to the internet and a lot of it is due to — to the internet and a lot of it is due to i — to the internet and a lot of it is due to i would say the trends. the shops are — due to i would say the trends. the shops are not buying the right product — shops are not buying the right product for the customers to get so if you _ product for the customers to get so if you can _ product for the customers to get so if you can get it cheaper on the infinite — if you can get it cheaper on the infinite why would you go into a store? — infinite why would you go into a store? i— infinite why would you go into a store? i worked infinite why would you go into a store? iworked in infinite why would you go into a store? i worked in a infinite why would you go into a store? iworked in a diy infinite why would you go into a store? i worked in a diy store for 20 years— store? i worked in a diy store for 20 years and are cut down on staff and it _ 20 years and are cut down on staff and it is— 20 years and are cut down on staff and it is heartbreaking when you go

out there _ and it is heartbreaking when you go out there and a store that used to have _ out there and a store that used to have so— out there and a store that used to have so many staff with very little staff and — have so many staff with very little staff and you are running around like a _ staff and you are running around like a headless chicken and basically you have no staff to serve the club _ basically you have no staff to serve the club customers and the customers are disheartened and they walk away and it— are disheartened and they walk away and it all— are disheartened and they walk away and it all starts at the top. unfortunately, the people at the top don't see _ unfortunately, the people at the top don't see that. i don't understand why they— don't see that. i don't understand why they don't see that the need to id why they don't see that the need to go back— why they don't see that the need to go back onto the floor and revisit the floor— go back onto the floor and revisit the floor and have a lot of what's going _ the floor and have a lot of what's going on— the floor and have a lot of what's going on in— the floor and have a lot of what's going on in their stores. mel, thank ou ve going on in their stores. mel, thank you very much- _ going on in their stores. mel, thank you very much. thank— going on in their stores. mel, thank you very much. thank you - going on in their stores. mel, thankl you very much. thank you everybody with superb contributions this morning. i will come to texas after we have a news and sport right now, let me give you the government statement. we are talking about your high street, do we need to save it or do we need to just accept that evolution? let me see what the government says. a government spokesperson says the big levelling up spokesperson says the big levelling up programme is reviving high street across the country with a multi—million future high street fund helping to renew and reshape

town centres and high streets in a way to drive growth and improves experiences for local people. levelling up and regeneration will also create new powers for retailers to run high street rental auctions ending the blighted boarded up town centres to give local opportunities to the community and our planning changes supports high street by enabling premises to ban quickly to changing consumer demands while the business rate relief scheme announced in the autumn statement of 2022 will support high street businesses with an estimated 2.1 billion 1,000,000,020 23-24. more to billion 1,000,000,020 23—24. more to come. get billion 1,000,000,020 23-24. more to come. get in touch. here is the news. a report suggests almost one — here is the news. a report suggests almost one third _ here is the news. a report suggests almost one third of _ here is the news. a report suggests almost one third of female - here is the news. a report suggests| almost one third of female surgeons in the nhs have been sexually assaulted by a colleague in the past

five years. nearly two thirds of women that responded to the study said they had been sexually harassed. officialfigures said they had been sexually harassed. official figures show uk wage growth has caught up with the rising prices for the first time in almost two years. regular pay, excluding bonuses, rose by 7.8% in may— july compared to last year. 24 wilko stores were shot at the end of trading today. a deal to rescue the retailer has collapsed meaning all 400 shops are expected to close by next month putting more than 12,000 jobs at risk. and... the north korean president arrived in russia where you will meet president putin. president putin wants to buy weapons from him. .. president putin wants to buy weapons from him. ., . , , ~ president putin wants to buy weapons from him. ., . , , ,, .,, from him. former welsh striker rob earnshaw has _ from him. former welsh striker rob earnshaw has told _ from him. former welsh striker rob earnshaw has told us _ from him. former welsh striker rob earnshaw has told us he _ from him. former welsh striker rob earnshaw has told us he thinks i from him. former welsh striker rob earnshaw has told us he thinks the i earnshaw has told us he thinks the boss rob— earnshaw has told us he thinks the boss rob page will survive in his role and — boss rob page will survive in his role and that he is a very good manager~ _ role and that he is a very good manager. welsby lavia 2—0 to keep their 2024—

manager. welsby lavia 2—0 to keep their 2024 hope still intact but it was only— their 2024 hope still intact but it was only their second win in 14 matches— was only their second win in 14 matches and the fa of wales said page's— matches and the fa of wales said page's position will still be reviewed. scott the manager steve clarke _ reviewed. scott the manager steve clarke says to my's friendly guessing there will be the perfect barometer for how far his team has come _ barometer for how far his team has come we — barometer for how far his team has come. we have commentary on five live for— come. we have commentary on five live for you — come. we have commentary on five live for you a — come. we have commentary on five live for you a 7:45pm and scotland have _ live for you a 7:45pm and scotland have won — live for you a 7:45pm and scotland have won all five of their spot in the tournament could be secured is not if— the tournament could be secured is not if norway draw with georgia. paul pogba has been provisionally suspended from playing after he was found _ suspended from playing after he was found elevated levels of testosterone in his system. if found guilty— testosterone in his system. if found guilty of— testosterone in his system. if found guilty of doping he could face a ban of 2-4_ guilty of doping he could face a ban of 2—4 years and his agents as they are waiting — of 2—4 years and his agents as they are waiting a second sample. star quarterback aaron rodgers has suffered — quarterback aaron rodgers has suffered a suspected achilles injury on his— suffered a suspected achilles injury on his new yorkjets debut against the buffalo bills. it was minutes into the — the buffalo bills. it was minutes into the first quarter of the match.

coming up at ten, the latest national and international news right here on bbc radio 5 live and bbc sounds and we're going to talk about sexual harassment at 10am for our listenings. truly shocking accounts from file or female surgeons who have been harassed and assaulted by colleagues. sexual harassment and assault and rape have been referred to as surgeries open secret. let's open up to other workplaces as well. one of the key things here is that women say they feel reporting incidents will damage

their careers and they lack the confidence that any action will be taken if they are going to report an incident in the first place. how do you feel about what is happening here? have you experienced anything like this at your work? is 2023, not 1973 and what did happen? were you able to reported? and does that aspect of senior colleagues taking advantage ofjunior members of staff time with you? that is coming up at 10am. sexual assault at work and you can get in touch with us now. we are talking about saving the high street and the giants have been falling one after another, either

going out of business completely or going out of business completely or going online and transforming the way they do things and keeping their brand in some way, shape orform but it not like it was before stop wilko, the first wilko shop closures will begin today the first 24 of 400 stores, including those in liverpool, halifax and falmouth. a further 20 are closing on thursday. i said earlier but it was to have thousand jobs but it's actually 12,000 jobs i'm really pleased that joanne got in touch and works in wilko. and the next manager of wilko also who lost his job six weeks ago and i'm so sorry about that, guys and i'm so sorry about that, guys and everything is going on with you and everything is going on with you and your colleagues and friends. thank you very much for getting in touch. joanne, where did all go wrong? touch. joanne, where did all go wron: ? �* .

touch. joanne, where did all go wron: ? �* , ., , touch. joanne, where did all go wronu? h , touch. joanne, where did all go wron.? �*, , ~' wrong? it's the top, people like lisa wilkinson _ wrong? it's the top, people like lisa wilkinson who _ wrong? it's the top, people like lisa wilkinson who i _ wrong? it's the top, people like lisa wilkinson who i feel - wrong? it's the top, people like lisa wilkinson who i feel should wrong? it's the top, people like i lisa wilkinson who i feel should be boiled or —— brought in from the parliamentary committee. lisa wilkinson is _ parliamentary committee. lisa wilkinson is not _ parliamentary committee. lisa wilkinson is not here - parliamentary committee. lisa wilkinson is not here to defend yourself and i'm sure we should give her the opportunity to do that but you reckon a come from the top. mismanagement? absolutely, mismanagement, greed and total incompetence. mismanagement, greed and total incompetence-— incompetence. how is this incompetence _ incompetence. how is this incompetence manifesting incompetence. how is this - incompetence manifesting itself in people? in the way you have done business in the shop floor? lack of investment. _ business in the shop floor? lack of investment, you _ business in the shop floor? lack of investment, you have _ business in the shop floor? lack of investment, you have people - business in the shop floor? lack of investment, you have people like i investment, you have people like procter & gamble and unilever, the debt which occurred and you have to think that during lockdown, they made mountains of money, eye watering sum is a word of the profit go? it wasn't to the people to buy the stock. what happened to it? after the second lockdown, the shop never ever really recovered. we got

stocking in dribs and drabs and it never ever recovered. lots of things didn't end up turning up, just came on in bits and pieces. where did all that money go? it's a sad, it's utterly sad and i feel for my colleagues today but i do believe this comes from the very top itself. isn't it a general malaise in the high street? things have been changing, have you not been a part of that? in changing, have you not been a part of that? , ., , ., ., of that? in some way, shape or form i su ose of that? in some way, shape or form i sunpose it — of that? in some way, shape or form i sunpose it is. _ of that? in some way, shape or form i suppose it is, but _ of that? in some way, shape or form i suppose it is, but where _ of that? in some way, shape or form i suppose it is, but where i _ of that? in some way, shape or form i suppose it is, but where i am, - i suppose it is, but where i am, it's full of second—hand shops, cafe is, nail bars, there is nothing up there, there are very few, when wilko does go, it's going to leave a massive gaping hole. and it really well. ., , ., ,

massive gaping hole. and it really well. ., , ., ., well. for sure and its offer for you and our well. for sure and its offer for you and your friends _ well. for sure and its offer for you and your friends and _ well. for sure and its offer for you and your friends and colleagues i well. for sure and its offer for you i and your friends and colleagues and you have seen this... find and your friends and colleagues and you have seen this. . ._ you have seen this... and i feel for every single _ you have seen this... and i feel for every single one of _ you have seen this... and i feel for every single one of them today. i every single one of them today. luke, speak tojoanne about this and the scene reverberates with you, luke. what has this happened? in mi; luke. what has this happened? in my oinion luke. what has this happened? in my opinion after— luke. what has this happened? in my opinion after covid _ luke. what has this happened? in my opinion after covid and _ luke. what has this happened? in my opinion after covid and when - luke. what has this happened? in my opinion after covid and when it started — opinion after covid and when it started there was a huge decrease in footfall_ started there was a huge decrease in footfall into the town centre and i think_ footfall into the town centre and i think that — footfall into the town centre and i think that plays a part in it. | think that plays a part in it. disagree think that plays a part in it. i disagree with that. a - think that plays a part in it. i l disagree with that. a moment think that plays a part in it. i - disagree with that. a moment ago you said that from — disagree with that. a moment ago you said that from the _ disagree with that. a moment ago you said that from the second _ disagree with that. a moment ago you said that from the second lockdown i said that from the second lockdown that wilt— said that from the second lockdown that will kill never go back to where — that will kill never go back to where it _ that will kill never go back to where it was in the first place. stock — where it was in the first place. stock never got back. we were so busy and we are actually a very busy store. where we are there's not much competition. there is being down or anything like that at all and we are very busy store. what i'm saying is

in that regard, the stock, the levels of stock never recovered of what was going out on the shelves in the cayman in dribs and drabs. luke, our next the cayman in dribs and drabs. luke, your next manager _ the cayman in dribs and drabs. luke, your next manager of _ the cayman in dribs and drabs. luke, your next manager of wilko - the cayman in dribs and drabs. luke, your next manager of wilko and you lost your job your next manager of wilko and you lost yourjob in the last few your next manager of wilko and you lost your job in the last few weeks. come back on that. i understand what you are _ come back on that. i understand what you are in _ come back on that. i understand what you are in however, it's a case of swiv— you are in however, it's a case of surrpty and — you are in however, it's a case of supply and demand. the stock going out is _ supply and demand. the stock going out is hot _ supply and demand. the stock going out is not necessarily going to come back again _ out is not necessarily going to come back again if you're not getting the footfall _ back again if you're not getting the footfall coming into the shop. a lot of it how— footfall coming into the shop. a lot of it now and we are in the 21st century— of it now and we are in the 21st century where you can order something of amazon and its like you are dressed _ something of amazon and its like you are dressed in the same day. would ou have are dressed in the same day. would you have done _ are dressed in the same day. would you have done something _ are dressed in the same day. hmjc you have done something differently in the boardroom? did you say the time that they should be doing this and you're not sure if that was the right decision, strategy, if it were spot on, did you think that? mat

spot on, did you think that? not reall , spot on, did you think that? not really. not _ spot on, did you think that? not really, not really, nikki. ithink the scaremongering from the likes of the scaremongering from the likes of the bbc_ the scaremongering from the likes of the bbc made out that covid was here to kill_ the bbc made out that covid was here to kill everybody and covid is a lie and coming — to kill everybody and covid is a lie and coming a cashless society. 0k,~~~ — and coming a cashless society. 0k,... ., ., , and coming a cashless society. 0k...-_ 0k. - and coming a cashless society. 0k...-_ 0k. we i and coming a cashless society. . 0k,..._ 0k, we have 0k,... covid iza ly... 0k, we have lost him- — 0k,... covid iza ly... 0k, we have lost him- and _ 0k,... covid iza ly... 0k, we have lost him. and i _ 0k,... covid iza ly... 0k, we have lost him. and i have _ 0k,... covid iza ly... 0k, we have lost him. and i have lost - 0k,... covid iza ly... 0k, we have lost him. and i have lost the - 0k,... covid iza ly... 0k, we have lost him. and i have lost the plot. j lost him. and i have lost the plot. his substantive point is that going back to the logical part of that before the other stuff and i think there was something about salvation in there, but there is no salvation for wilko and the point is he was making is part of a general trend of the moment. you say otherwise. you

did mention lisa wilkinson and she spoke to the times in august and she said everybody has thrown everything and everything again trying to make wilko a success of suppress what she said to keep it going. it couldn't be kept going because it couldn't be kept going, that's what she said about that. a little wilko interlude and thank you ever so much, joanne and thank you ever so much, joanne and thank you ever so much, joanne and thank you, luke. matthew, mark and thank you, luke. matthew, mark and john. phil, hello, you run a toy shop. how are things there? things are starting — shop. how are things there? things are starting to _ shop. how are things there? things are starting to gear _ shop. how are things there? things are starting to gear up _ shop. how are things there? things are starting to gear up for - are starting to gear up for christmas as september tends to be the time when people think about christmas and going forward so think families are knocking around. it is

tough, it has been a tough few years but we are hanging on there because we are not the toy shop, we have stationery and stuff and we do offer supplies for local companies, so that helps to keep us going. ads, supplies for local companies, so that helps to keep us going. a few sleeless that helps to keep us going. a few sleepless nights _ that helps to keep us going. a few sleepless nights along _ that helps to keep us going. a few sleepless nights along the - that helps to keep us going. a few sleepless nights along the way though? sleepless nights along the way thou . h? , sleepless nights along the way thouuh? , ., _ , though? yes, obviously when you see the big boys — though? yes, obviously when you see the big boys going _ though? yes, obviously when you see the big boys going down _ though? yes, obviously when you see the big boys going down like - though? yes, obviously when you see the big boys going down like £10, - the big boys going down like £10, yes, but you tend to be able to be a bit more fleet on your foot in the nationals, i think, bit more fleet on your foot in the nationals, ithink, so bit more fleet on your foot in the nationals, i think, so you can try and adapt. l nationals, i think, so you can try and adapt-— and adapt. i think one of callers corners were — and adapt. i think one of callers corners were saying _ and adapt. i think one of callers corners were saying earlier - and adapt. i think one of callers corners were saying earlier on l and adapt. i think one of callers i corners were saying earlier on that the secret of sustaining it is to have things that people want to squash. do toys come into that? to feel and see an squeamish. if my word of the day. do toys come into that category?—

that category? yes, i think so, television _ that category? yes, i think so, television adverts _ that category? yes, i think so, television adverts sell - that category? yes, i think so, television adverts sell all i that category? yes, i think so, television adverts sell all toys| television adverts sell all toys these days, but there's nothing quite like taking your child into a toy shop, your three or four—year—old and just seeing the face and let them have a look around. none of the don't touch this don't touch that. you can have a feel, you don't want them to break things, per my three and a half year old grandson asked if my dad can go to a shop to have a look at the poor patrol toys. i don't want anything but i just want to have a patrol toys. i don't want anything but ijust want to have a look patrol toys. i don't want anything but i just want to have a look at something and touch them. he usually gets something obviously but there is that. �* , gets something obviously but there is that. . , , , ., is that. and toys r us is online now as well. is that. and toys r us is online now as well- you _ is that. and toys r us is online now as well. you mentioned _ is that. and toys r us is online now as well. you mentioned the - is that. and toys r us is online now as well. you mentioned the joy, i as well. you mentioned thejoy, the sheer unmitigated excitement of going into the toy department when a

kid, i remember, but the toy department i went into, in edinburgh, but it was in a magnificent building on the corner of princes street and that has closed down and when i heard that closed down and when i heard that closed down, a part of my childhood went. i remember going down the steps and sing all the displays and toys at christmas and the tree and, oh, my goodness me, stop me. emily, in rugby, you work in a small shop. how do we save the high street? do we just how do we save the high street? do wejust go how do we save the high street? do we just go with change? what how do we save the high street? do we just go with change?— how do we save the high street? do we just go with change? what do you think? i think. _ we just go with change? what do you think? | think, |— we just go with change? what do you think? | think, | sell— we just go with change? what do you think? ithink, i sell toiletries, i think? ithink, i sell toiletries, whereby— think? ithink, i sell toiletries, whereby wilko, next door to one, we have a _ whereby wilko, next door to one, we have a lot _ whereby wilko, next door to one, we have a lot of — whereby wilko, next door to one, we have a lot of customers that will say. _ have a lot of customers that will say, mainly elderly and there were stubborn _ say, mainly elderly and there were stubborn of conversation with you and they — stubborn of conversation with you and they will talk about anything they like —

and they will talk about anything they like and that i think is what you're _ they like and that i think is what you're going to miss stop we have toyat— you're going to miss stop we have loyal customers and i think that such— loyal customers and i think that such a — loyal customers and i think that such a shame. hopefully we are all i’llht such a shame. hopefully we are all right but— such a shame. hopefully we are all right but wilko is such a sad situation _ right but wilko is such a sad situation. it right but wilko is such a sad situation-— right but wilko is such a sad situation. , , , , ., situation. it is, it is, but your oint is situation. it is, it is, but your point is well _ situation. it is, it is, but your point is well made, - situation. it is, it is, but your point is well made, and i situation. it is, it is, but your point is well made, and not l situation. it is, it is, but your. point is well made, and not the first person to say that. you introduce a very personal connection and people will always love a nutter. some breaking news, the regulators of england's water companies are going to be investigated for failing to enforce the law over sewage discharge. the office for environmental protection says the environment agency and the government have been issued with information notice and given two months to respond and the office for environmental protection says it believed the regulators may have

misinterpreted the law, allowing sewage releases to take place too frequently. it's interesting. raw sewage, of course, you may well have noticed, raw sewage, while swimmers, it was discharged into england public waterways but england public waterways less so in some parts of the country, english waterways had 300,000 times only a small fraction of the spills have been deemed a breach of permit. this is an interesting development. the regulators of the water companies are going to be investigated for failing to enforce the law over sewage discharge. there more on that on the bbc website and of the app and of course on five live. right here with the big discussion of the day, your chance to express your opinion. give me your experience or expertise and expectations. that's what we're doing here and we do it

with people who are on the front line, whether they be working in shops, shoppers. emily, thank you for that. tommy and dustin as well and dave, you closed your shop in 2015. what was it? it and dave, you closed your shop in 2015. what was it?— and dave, you closed your shop in 2015. what was it? it was a winter sorts 2015. what was it? it was a winter sports retail _ 2015. what was it? it was a winter sports retail shop. _ 2015. what was it? it was a winter sports retail shop. we _ 2015. what was it? it was a winter sports retail shop. we were i 2015. what was it? it was a winter sports retail shop. we were in i 2015. what was it? it was a winter sports retail shop. we were in a l sports retail shop. we were in a destination centre, one of the places that was attached to an indoor snow slope so a great venue. it got to a stage where everybody that came through the door, you are second—guessing if they were just coming to try something on and is known as show roaming and we had a sign on the wall with a wikipedia describing description of show roaming to show that is not right though there are doing. we have all the stock paying the rent on the

lights on and what's more frustrating is they wouldn't even ask me if i would do better price. they werejust take ask me if i would do better price. they were just take pictures of the stuff, try it on and that they walk out. ., ., ., ., _ ., out. hang on, the goodbye online... yes, the misconception _ out. hang on, the goodbye online... yes, the misconception of— out. hang on, the goodbye online... yes, the misconception of buying i yes, the misconception of buying online is that it is always going to be cheaper a lot of the time it is, below the time it isn't stop people would come in the shop, pick something up, tried on and ask what model is it? and they wanted you to write stuff down. we are to go to the level of damaging all the bar code so people can scan them, it's ridiculous. this is a point is not being mentioned. you can change people. whatever you do in the high street, people are and what a better price. as a consumer, yes, of course, i want the better, i was brought up in cells i'm always going to ask if there is a deal to be had.

anything that is why i used to get wound up... brought up in sales... people get the phone out the door. as a deal available? sometimes a bit of bartering, is another cards? would it have been the cards? yes. would it have been the cards? yes, absolutely- — would it have been the cards? yes, absolutely. hundred _ would it have been the cards? yes, absolutely. hundred and _ would it have been the cards? yes, absolutely. hundred and £20 i would it have been the cards? yes, absolutely. hundred and £20 and l would it have been the cards? yes, absolutely. hundred and £20 and i | absolutely. hundred and £20 and i will rive absolutely. hundred and £20 and i will give you _ absolutely. hundred and £20 and i will give you 115 — absolutely. hundred and £20 and i will give you 115 for _ absolutely. hundred and £20 and i will give you 115 for it. _ will give you 115 for it. absolutely, all day long. really? yes, i'm going to take your money. and this is quite a frustrating thing and as a small retailer, i wouldn't have minded people asking me for a day like that instead of walking out because you might allow your likely militia taking money for the day. your likely militia taking money for the da . �* , ., ,_ the day. 0k, here's a thing. say it's £119 and _ the day. 0k, here's a thing. say it's £119 and |—

the day. 0k, here's a thing. say it's £119 and | get _ the day. 0k, here's a thing. say it's £119 and i get my _ the day. 0k, here's a thing. say it's £119 and i get my phone i the day. 0k, here's a thing. say it's £119 and i get my phone andj the day. 0k, here's a thing. say| it's £119 and i get my phone and i say here you go, dave, i can get this online for hundred and ten quid. will you do that 1109. it's going to eat into margins, isn't it? it is, but some margin is better than no margin and that's the point in trying to make. some big retailers, if you go into them and say, this is online of a price, will you match? as long as it is a dot co .uk business and it is in stock, we will match it. no problem with that at all, but as the deviousness of trying something on and then walking away. yes, very frustrating and i got a point where i have had enough of this of this because it's going to get worse and worse. as the huge amazon death star is getting bigger and bigger... d0 amazon death star is getting bigger and bigger---_ amazon death star is getting bigger| and bigger---_ i and bigger... do you use amazon? i do now,

and bigger... do you use amazon? i do now. you. _ and bigger... do you use amazon? i do now. you. but — and bigger... do you use amazon? i do now, you, but i _ and bigger... do you use amazon? i do now, you, but i resisted - and bigger... do you use amazon? i do now, you, but i resisted for i do now, you, but i resisted for years and the thing is, another point i wanted to make a lot of small shops and as a retailer i was always told the stock is keen a love the retails shops, especially retail shops and specialist shops such as a local bike shop, you go in there and say have you got this? but i will get in for you because i have got in stock and how long will it take. it will take a week. if i can get that from one of the big massive ones or from one of the big massive ones or from amazon the day after, why would i wait a week?— i wait a week? thank you, dave. we've got _ i wait a week? thank you, dave. we've got it- _ i wait a week? thank you, dave. we've got it. nice _ i wait a week? thank you, dave. we've got it. nice talking - i wait a week? thank you, dave. we've got it. nice talking to i i wait a week? thank you, dave. | we've got it. nice talking to you. here is sandra in lincoln and michael in colchester. list a bit of shoplifting stuff here as it were. michael, it's one of the aspects of this conversation with the demise of the high street and a lot of opportunistic shoplifting. a lot of it related to organised crime as well and it's on the up. you working

undercover security and high street shops. what are you seeing? l undercover security and high street shops. what are you seeing? 1 see shops. what are you seeing? i see everything- _ shops. what are you seeing? i see everything. nothing _ shops. what are you seeing? i see everything. nothing surprises me. talking _ everything. nothing surprises me. talking about going back to wilko is, i used — talking about going back to wilko is, i used to cover will cause undercover— is, i used to cover will cause undercover and basically we covered ltford _ undercover and basically we covered ltford one _ undercover and basically we covered ilford one week and we had 42 stops in five _ ilford one week and we had 42 stops in five days— ilford one week and we had 42 stops in five days and people say shoplifting is on the up and it wasn't — shoplifting is on the up and it wasn't pick and mix either. in the maiority— wasn't pick and mix either. in the majority of— wasn't pick and mix either. in the majority of those people who i stopped. — majority of those people who i stopped, nicky, were foreign and i'm telling _ stopped, nicky, were foreign and i'm telling you _ stopped, nicky, were foreign and i'm telling you now as well, it's the white _ telling you now as well, it's the white people who kick off and they're — white people who kick off and they're the ones who give you trouble — they're the ones who give you trouble. this will be they're the ones who give you trouble. this will he go around is because — trouble. this will he go around is because you cannot do it on your own any more _ because you cannot do it on your own any more |_ because you cannot do it on your own an more. ~' , any more. i think there is huge dancer any more. i think there is huge danger in _ any more. i think there is huge danger in jumping _ any more. i think there is huge danger in jumping to _ any more. i think there is huge l danger in jumping to stereotypes here, but, listen, whati danger in jumping to stereotypes here, but, listen, what i would say is there are links to organised crime and this was highlighted in a brilliant feature in the five live breakfast show this morning. it's

not just breakfast show this morning. it's notjust economic crimes in people who are desperate, sometimes thus masquerading as links to organised crime. thank you. sandra in lincoln, parking is a problem, isn't it? yes. it's exoensive _ parking is a problem, isn't it? yes. it's expensive and _ parking is a problem, isn't it? yes. it's expensive and i _ parking is a problem, isn't it? yes. it's expensive and i think— parking is a problem, isn't it? yes. it's expensive and i think for the older— it's expensive and i think for the older generation, _ it's expensive and i think for the older generation, which - it's expensive and i think for the older generation, which i - it's expensive and i think for the i older generation, which i represent, that's— older generation, which i represent, that's a _ older generation, which i represent, that's a consideration. _ older generation, which i represent, that's a consideration. if _ older generation, which i represent, that's a consideration. if you - older generation, which i represent, that's a consideration. if you just i that's a consideration. if you just wanted _ that's a consideration. if you just wanted to— that's a consideration. if you just wanted to nip _ that's a consideration. if you just wanted to nip into— that's a consideration. if you just wanted to nip into town - that's a consideration. if you just wanted to nip into town for i that's a consideration. if you just wanted to nip into town for one i that's a consideration. if you just i wanted to nip into town for one or two items, — wanted to nip into town for one or two items, then, _ wanted to nip into town for one or two items, then, no, _ wanted to nip into town for one or two items, then, no, it— wanted to nip into town for one or two items, then, no, it makes- wanted to nip into town for one or two items, then, no, it makes it i wanted to nip into town for one or. two items, then, no, it makes it too expensive _ two items, then, no, it makes it too expensive so — two items, then, no, it makes it too expensive so we _ two items, then, no, it makes it too expensive so we go _ two items, then, no, it makes it too expensive so we go to _ expensive so we go to the out—of—town _ expensive so we go to the out—of—town stores. i expensive so we go to the out—of—town stores. the i expensive so we go to the i out—of—town stores. the bus expensive so we go to the _ out—of—town stores. the bus services are not— out—of—town stores. the bus services are not as _ out—of—town stores. the bus services are not as good — out—of—town stores. the bus services are not as good as— out—of—town stores. the bus services are not as good as they _ out—of—town stores. the bus services are not as good as they used - out—of—town stores. the bus services are not as good as they used to i out—of—town stores. the bus services are not as good as they used to be i are not as good as they used to be for getting — are not as good as they used to be for getting into _ are not as good as they used to be for getting into town _ are not as good as they used to be for getting into town and - are not as good as they used to be for getting into town and the - are not as good as they used to bei for getting into town and the other thing. _ forgetting into town and the other thing. i_ forgetting into town and the other thing. i know— for getting into town and the other thing. i know it— for getting into town and the other thing, i know it seems _ for getting into town and the other thing, i know it seems odd, - for getting into town and the other thing, i know it seems odd, but. for getting into town and the other| thing, i know it seems odd, but for a lot— thing, i know it seems odd, but for a tot of— thing, i know it seems odd, but for a tot of elderly— thing, i know it seems odd, but for a lot of elderly people, _ thing, i know it seems odd, but for a lot of elderly people, the - thing, i know it seems odd, but for a lot of elderly people, the need i a lot of elderly people, the need for a _ a lot of elderly people, the need for a toilet— a lot of elderly people, the need for a toilet and _ a lot of elderly people, the need for a toilet and all— a lot of elderly people, the need for a toilet and all the _ a lot of elderly people, the need for a toilet and all the public- for a toilet and all the public toilets — for a toilet and all the public toilets in _ for a toilet and all the public toilets in town _ for a toilet and all the public toilets in town seem - for a toilet and all the public toilets in town seem to - for a toilet and all the publici toilets in town seem to have for a toilet and all the public- toilets in town seem to have been closed, _

toilets in town seem to have been closed, so — toilets in town seem to have been closed, so they— toilets in town seem to have been closed, so they decide _ toilets in town seem to have been closed, so they decide that - toilets in town seem to have been closed, so they decide that it - closed, so they decide that it may be the _ closed, so they decide that it may be the out—of—town _ closed, so they decide that it may be the out—of—town parking - closed, so they decide that it may be the out—of—town parking is- be the out—of—town parking is better, — be the out—of—town parking is better, most— be the out—of—town parking is better, most of— be the out—of—town parking is better, most of the _ be the out—of—town parking is better, most of the big - be the out—of—town parking isi better, most of the big stores be the out—of—town parking is- better, most of the big stores have a toilet— better, most of the big stores have a toilet and — better, most of the big stores have a toilet and that's _ better, most of the big stores have a toilet and that's contributing - better, most of the big stores have a toilet and that's contributing to l a toilet and that's contributing to a toilet and that's contributing to a toss_ a toilet and that's contributing to a toss of— a toilet and that's contributing to a loss of footfall— a toilet and that's contributing to a loss of footfall in _ a toilet and that's contributing to a loss of footfall in the _ a toilet and that's contributing to a loss of footfall in the high - a loss of footfall in the high street _ a loss of footfall in the high street. w i, a loss of footfall in the high street. ,,., i, , i, a loss of footfall in the high street. i, , i, street. sandra, it is a brilliant oint street. sandra, it is a brilliant point and _ street. sandra, it is a brilliant point and is — street. sandra, it is a brilliant point and is something - street. sandra, it is a brilliant point and is something that i street. sandra, it is a brilliant| point and is something that we street. sandra, it is a brilliant - point and is something that we have discussed and we did some really powerful phone—ins on people who when you need to go, you need to go and it's a massive issue and sometimes you are required to spend money as well if you go in a shop so you have to buy something first. yes, yes. that doesn't happen in the out-of-town — yes, yes. that doesn't happen in the out—of—town stores, _ yes, yes. that doesn't happen in the out—of—town stores, does _ yes, yes. that doesn't happen in the out—of—town stores, does it? - out—of—town stores, does it? parking. _ out—of—town stores, does it? parking. 6 _ out—of—town stores, does it? parking, a mass— out—of—town stores, does it? parking, a mass of— out—of—town stores, does it? | parking, a mass of issues and out—of—town stores, does it? - parking, a mass of issues and lots of texts and that this morning. and thank you for all the communications and i will come to some texts, it has been very lively this morning, lots of interesting calls and texts

and variety and colourful contributions. viewers to bbc news and bbc to leave us now. live from london, this is bbc news. libyan officials say at least 2,000 people have been killed and thousands may be missing

after a powerful storm led to catastrophic flooding in the country's east. a major study suggests female surgeons working in nhs hospitals in the uk are subjected to a culture of sexual harrassment and assaults by male colleagues. north korean leader kimjong—un has arrived in russia to meet president putin. is a potential arms deal on the agenda? hello. we start in libya — where floods are reported to have killed 2,800 people after a powerful storm swept through the east of the country. the figures come from the leader of the east libyan government, which is not recognised internationally. widespread flooding and mudslides caused by torrential rain destroyed