and ai generated content is really impacting children's understanding. translation: for the newly emerged - generative ai it's like a growing - child who has learnt to speak. it is capable to understand and has its own creativity so it can solve more problems. the race to regulate artificial intelligence. amid the warnings that al poses an existential threat, suddenly that issue is rising quickly up the list of national security issues. why, what has changed? and what was decided this week at a summit of the tech titans in washington? we will get into all that with a stellar panel tonight anja manuel, executive director of the aspen security forum is here. and also with us from glasgow the political commentator and columnist for the scottish herald, brian taylor.

what will they make ofjoe biden's support for the car workers in michigan? the union calls strikes at three plants in north america. and how does that connect with the story at port talbot in wales. a green transition, that threatens 3,000 jobs, in spite of the governments significant new investment. good evening. how many of you sitting at home have seen the movie oppenheimer. this is a national emergency. the story of nuclear fission and the race to build the atom bomb. and the chain reaction it then set in place. from the nuclear arms race and proliferation, to the bay of pigs, and the cold war. now apply that thinking to ai.

we are at the advent of a technology so powerful, arguably just as destructive, and that has politicians rethinking their entire approach. suddenly rishi sunak seems troubled. we've got to put guardrails in place to protect ourselves, our country, our people from the very real risks that it poses. risks that the creators of ai themselves have highlighted. in recent weeks the prime minister's called an international safety summit, he has referred in his speeches to the existential risk, there's a new ai safety task force, that's engaging some of the biggest thinkers in the field. there is similar concern in washington. this week us lawmakers summoned the biggest names in tech for closed doors discussion. to encourage free debate, said the senators. or was it to shield us from the same doomsday prophecies voiced by geoffrey hinton once of google? "there are occasions," he wrote, "when i believe that probably we're "not going to be able to contain ai, we'rejust a passing phase "in the evolution of intelligence". that view is now shaping policy at all levels in the west. is that a good thing or will it

constrain the advances and resulting benefits ai could surely bring? with us to discuss it tonight politico's senior tech correspondent vincent manancourt. they have just written a fascinating article on this and the changing mood, vincent, at the top level, what has changed? can you hear me? rishi sunak has become mr doomsday... hello? we rishi sunak has become mr doomsday... hello? rishi sunak has become mr doomsda hello? ~ . doomsday... hello? we can hear you, no ahead. doomsday... hello? we can hear you, go ahead- rishi _ doomsday... hello? we can hear you, go ahead. rishi sunak _ doomsday... hello? we can hear you, go ahead. rishi sunak has _ doomsday... hello? we can hear you, go ahead. rishi sunak has become - doomsday... hello? we can hear you, go ahead. rishi sunak has become mr| go ahead. rishi sunak has become mr doomsday on — go ahead. rishi sunak has become mr doomsday on artificial _ go ahead. rishi sunak has become mr doomsday on artificial intelligence - doomsday on artificial intelligence on the world stage... i doomsday on artificial intelligence on the world stage. . ._ on the world stage... i think we need more _ on the world stage... i think we need more ai _ on the world stage... i think we need more al on _ on the world stage... i think we need more al on vincent's - on the world stage... i think we need more al on vincent's line. j on the world stage... i think we - need more al on vincent's line. we need more alon vincent's line. we will see if we can re—establish the

line. let's bring in our panel. anja, what do you think has changed in recent months?— in recent months? thank you for havin: in recent months? thank you for having me- _ in recent months? thank you for having me. this _ in recent months? thank you for having me. this is _ in recent months? thank you for having me. this is a _ in recent months? thank you for| having me. this is a fundamental in recent months? thank you for - having me. this is a fundamental new era in technology and regulation. so far i think the uk, the us and europe are being very careful and taking the regulation really seriously. you will notice the us has not rushed out with any new laws. senator schumer is hosting nine events like the ones you saw today with the tech leaders. he is trying to get to the right answer and trying to do it on a bipartisan basis. let me say one word about what we are concerned about what these new large language models everyone is talking about, left to their own devices they could write malicious code themselves, so there is a huge cyber threat. they are worried about deep fakes and election meddling, worried about military use such as bio weapons and elsewhere. being very careful about how we regulate them without

shutting down all innovation in the spaceis shutting down all innovation in the space is an important thing. let me ick u- on space is an important thing. let me pick up on that. _ space is an important thing. let me pick up on that, anja. _ space is an important thing. let me pick up on that, anja. i _ space is an important thing. let me pick up on that, anja. i read - space is an important thing. let me pick up on that, anja. i read a - pick up on that, anja. i read a letter in the scientific american, which is the here and now, the 2024 election and a ai model generates text, social e—mail tailored to use it personally and bombard you with those messages, takes into account those messages, takes into account those responses and tailors them accordingly to change our voting habits. we are already there. but what is not there is the regulation to prevent that, why? that what is not there is the regulation to prevent that, why?— what is not there is the regulation to prevent that, why? that is right, we are already _ to prevent that, why? that is right, we are already there. _ to prevent that, why? that is right, we are already there. the - to prevent that, why? that is right, we are already there. the reason i to prevent that, why? that is right, l we are already there. the reason the regulation isn't there is because most legislators and government officials don't have deep expertise in this ai and frankly, even the technologists i talk to on a daily basis in silicon valley are at a loss on how to do this

appropriately. you could on one extreme say, whoever creates the model has the liability if harm is done. that would shut down a lot of innovation. 0n the other hand, you can say we are going to regulate very little, like we did with social media and we have seen the harms that have come there. they are taking a moderate and bipartisan approach. it is never going to be as fast as the technology develops, but this is a positive development. brian, they need the chinese involved and if you think of it in the terms of oppenheimer, there is a suspicion that each superpower is going at different rates and they have to keep an eye on one another. the guardian reporting tonight that rishi sunak, who is considering inviting the chinese to his big summit at bletchley park in november is saying, we might band the chinese officials from half of the summit because we cannot trust they will not be spying on what we are doing?

they don't comment upon the guests attending _ they don't comment upon the guests attending summit orany they don't comment upon the guests attending summit or any of the arrangements around them. but if this is_ arrangements around them. but if this is true, — arrangements around them. but if this is true, it is weak and lame. the chinese _ this is true, it is weak and lame. the chinese state represents a threat — the chinese state represents a threat to — the chinese state represents a threat to the security of the united kingdom _ threat to the security of the united kingdom and the west, or it doesn't. banning _ kingdom and the west, or it doesn't. banning them from a single day and giving _ banning them from a single day and giving them a yellow card rather than _ giving them a yellow card rather than a _ giving them a yellow card rather than a red — giving them a yellow card rather than a red card strikes them as pathetic — than a red card strikes them as pathetic. you allow them to enter the meeting and the discussion and then you _ the meeting and the discussion and then you tell them to leave when the -ood then you tell them to leave when the good stuff _ then you tell them to leave when the good stuff gets going. will they be pleased? no, they are likely to retaliate — pleased? no, they are likely to retaliate in some fashion. if you genuinely— retaliate in some fashion. if you genuinely have an anxiety about their— genuinely have an anxiety about their presence, they should be excluded, as many are arguing. this is a debate — excluded, as many are arguing. this is a debate that has been going on for years— is a debate that has been going on for years in— is a debate that has been going on for years in the uk, is a debate that has been going on foryears in the uk, as is a debate that has been going on for years in the uk, as to whether the uk _ for years in the uk, as to whether the uk government likes of china, engages _ the uk government likes of china, engages with them and deals directly with individual business people and deal with— with individual business people and deal with government, or whether the best way— deal with government, or whether the best way is _ deal with government, or whether the best way is to apply sanctions and

disqualification from events like this _ disqualification from events like this that— disqualification from events like this. that debate does not appear to have been— this. that debate does not appear to have been resolved, at least according to the story being run by the guardian tonight. let�*s according to the story being run by the guardian tonight.— the guardian tonight. let's bring back vincent, _ the guardian tonight. let's bring back vincent, nice _ the guardian tonight. let's bring back vincent, nice to _ the guardian tonight. let's bring back vincent, nice to see - the guardian tonight. let's bring back vincent, nice to see you. . the guardian tonight. let's bring| back vincent, nice to see you. in the article you have written today, you talk about who is in the prime minister's ear and why there might have been the change of mood of what ai represents. here are the effective altiris, what do they believe? ' . �* , effective altiris, what do they believe? ' . ~ , . . believe? the effective altiris are a small band — believe? the effective altiris are a small band of _ believe? the effective altiris are a small band of techies _ believe? the effective altiris are a small band of techies like - believe? the effective altiris are a small band of techies like elon - small band of techies like elon musk, — small band of techies like elon musk, that _ small band of techies like elon musk, that really— small band of techies like elon musk, that really believe - small band of techies like elon musk, that really believe on i small band of techies like eloni musk, that really believe on the humanity— musk, that really believe on the humanity ending— musk, that really believe on the humanity ending potential - musk, that really believe on the humanity ending potential of. humanity ending potential of artificial— humanity ending potential of artificial intelligence. - humanity ending potential of artificial intelligence. that i humanity ending potential of. artificial intelligence. that has seen _ artificial intelligence. that has seen rishi _ artificial intelligence. that has seen rishi sunak— artificial intelligence. that has seen rishi sunak really- artificial intelligence. that has| seen rishi sunak really change artificial intelligence. that has - seen rishi sunak really change gears on artificial _ seen rishi sunak really change gears on artificial intelligence. _ seen rishi sunak really change gears on artificial intelligence. he - seen rishi sunak really change gears on artificial intelligence. he has - on artificial intelligence. he has this at — on artificial intelligence. he has this at safety _ on artificial intelligence. he has this ai safety summit _ on artificial intelligence. he has this ai safety summit in - on artificial intelligence. he has i this ai safety summit in november which _ this ai safety summit in november which will— this ai safety summit in november which will focus _ this ai safety summit in november which will focus on _ this ai safety summit in november which will focus on the _ this ai safety summit in november which will focus on the kind - this ai safety summit in november which will focus on the kind of- which will focus on the kind of frontier— which will focus on the kind of frontier risks _ which will focus on the kind of frontier risks of _ which will focus on the kind of frontier risks of the _ which will focus on the kind of frontier risks of the most - which will focus on the kind of- frontier risks of the most dangerous types _ frontier risks of the most dangerous types of artificial— frontier risks of the most dangerous types of artificial intelligence. - frontier risks of the most dangerous types of artificial intelligence. it - types of artificial intelligence. it is looking — types of artificial intelligence. it is looking at _ types of artificial intelligence. it is looking at whether _ types of artificial intelligence. itj is looking at whether generative types of artificial intelligence. it i is looking at whether generative ai can he _

is looking at whether generative ai can he used — is looking at whether generative ai can he used by— is looking at whether generative ai can be used by terrorists _ is looking at whether generative ai can be used by terrorists to - is looking at whether generative ai can be used by terrorists to create| can be used by terrorists to create bio can be used by terrorists to create hio weapons — can be used by terrorists to create bio weapons and _ can be used by terrorists to create bio weapons and even _ can be used by terrorists to create bio weapons and even perhaps - can be used by terrorists to create bio weapons and even perhaps all bio weapons and even perhaps ai causing _ bio weapons and even perhaps ai causing the — bio weapons and even perhaps ai causing the end _ bio weapons and even perhaps ai causing the end of— bio weapons and even perhaps ai causing the end of humanity. - causing the end of humanity. obviously— causing the end of humanity. obviously some _ causing the end of humanity. obviously some critics - causing the end of humanity. obviously some critics say i causing the end of humanity. i obviously some critics say this causing the end of humanity. - obviously some critics say this is very doomsday— obviously some critics say this is very doomsday scenario - obviously some critics say this is very doomsday scenario and - obviously some critics say this is very doomsday scenario and is l very doomsday scenario and is unlikely, — very doomsday scenario and is unlikely, but— very doomsday scenario and is unlikely, but rishi _ very doomsday scenario and is unlikely, but rishi sunak- very doomsday scenario and is unlikely, but rishi sunak has. unlikely, but rishi sunak has changed _ unlikely, but rishi sunak has changed gears _ unlikely, but rishi sunak has changed gears on _ unlikely, but rishi sunak has changed gears on that - unlikely, but rishi sunak has changed gears on that and l unlikely, but rishi sunak has. changed gears on that and that probably— changed gears on that and that probably dates _ changed gears on that and that probably dates back— changed gears on that and that probably dates back to - changed gears on that and that - probably dates back to conversations he had _ probably dates back to conversations he had in _ probably dates back to conversations he had in mate — probably dates back to conversations he had in mate with _ probably dates back to conversations he had in mate with some _ probably dates back to conversations he had in mate with some of- probably dates back to conversations he had in mate with some of the - he had in mate with some of the frontier— he had in mate with some of the frontier companies. _ he had in mate with some of the frontier companies. open- he had in mate with some of the frontier companies. open ai - he had in mate with some of the frontier companies. open ai is l he had in mate with some of the l frontier companies. open ai is the company— frontier companies. open ai is the company behind _ frontier companies. open ai is the company behind chat. _ frontier companies. open ai is the company behind chat. we - frontier companies. open ai is the company behind chat.— frontier companies. open ai is the company behind chat. we have this bod he company behind chat. we have this body he has — company behind chat. we have this body he has set _ company behind chat. we have this body he has set up, _ company behind chat. we have this body he has set up, it _ company behind chat. we have this body he has set up, it is _ company behind chat. we have this body he has set up, it is chaired - body he has set up, it is chaired by ian hogarth, the tech investor. he is bringing all the mines in the uk together to talk about where this is going, are the influences we have talked about, are they part of the panel and are they steering it in the direction of ai being a national security threat?— security threat? yes, so the frontier task _

security threat? yes, so the frontier task force - security threat? yes, so the frontier task force is - security threat? yes, so the frontier task force is very i security threat? yes, so the . frontier task force is very much focused — frontier task force is very much focused on _ frontier task force is very much focused on the _ frontier task force is very much focused on the frontier- frontier task force is very much focused on the frontier threatsi frontier task force is very much i focused on the frontier threats of these _ focused on the frontier threats of these frontier— focused on the frontier threats of these frontier models _ focused on the frontier threats of these frontier models and - focused on the frontier threats of these frontier models and it - focused on the frontier threats of these frontier models and it is i focused on the frontier threats of these frontier models and it is a i these frontier models and it is a fancy— these frontier models and it is a fancy way— these frontier models and it is a fancy way of— these frontier models and it is a fancy way of saying _ these frontier models and it is a fancy way of saying they- these frontier models and it is a fancy way of saying they really. fancy way of saying they really advanced _ fancy way of saying they really advanced artificial— fancy way of saying they really advanced artificial intelligencej advanced artificial intelligence models — advanced artificial intelligence models and _ advanced artificial intelligence models. and they— advanced artificial intelligence models. and they are - advanced artificial intelligence models. and they are looking| advanced artificial intelligence l models. and they are looking at advanced artificial intelligence - models. and they are looking at the national— models. and they are looking at the national security— models. and they are looking at the national security threats _ models. and they are looking at the national security threats and - models. and they are looking at the national security threats and that i national security threats and that can either— national security threats and that can either be _ national security threats and that can either be bio—terrorism - national security threats and that can either be bio—terrorism or. national security threats and that - can either be bio—terrorism or mass, widescate _ can either be bio—terrorism or mass, widescale sophisticated _ can either be bio—terrorism or mass, widescale sophisticated cyber- widescale sophisticated cyber attacks — widescale sophisticated cyber attacks. they're _ widescale sophisticated cyber attacks. they're looking - widescale sophisticated cyber attacks. they're looking at i widescale sophisticated cyberl attacks. they're looking at the sharp — attacks. they're looking at the sharp edge _ attacks. they're looking at the sharp edge of— attacks. they're looking at the sharp edge of artificial- sharp edge of artificial intelligence _ sharp edge of artificial intelligence and - sharp edge of artificial intelligence and i- sharp edge of artificial| intelligence and i think sharp edge of artificial- intelligence and i think one of sharp edge of artificial— intelligence and i think one of the pitches— intelligence and i think one of the pitches of— intelligence and i think one of the pitches of the _ intelligence and i think one of the pitches of the uk _ intelligence and i think one of the pitches of the uk government - intelligence and i think one of the pitches of the uk government is i pitches of the uk government is perhaps— pitches of the uk government is perhaps to — pitches of the uk government is perhaps to frame _ pitches of the uk government is perhaps to frame this _ pitches of the uk government is perhaps to frame this task - pitches of the uk government is perhaps to frame this task force | pitches of the uk government is . perhaps to frame this task force as some _ perhaps to frame this task force as some kind — perhaps to frame this task force as some kind of— perhaps to frame this task force as some kind of forerunner— perhaps to frame this task force as some kind of forerunner of- perhaps to frame this task force as some kind of forerunner of an - some kind of forerunner of an international— some kind of forerunner of an international governance - some kind of forerunner of an| international governance body some kind of forerunner of an . international governance body on artificial — international governance body on artificial intelligence. _ international governance body on artificial intelligence.— artificial intelligence. an'a, you talk to a lot * artificial intelligence. an'a, you talk to a lot of h artificial intelligence. an'a, you talk to a lot of security _ artificial intelligence. anja, you i talk to a lot of security personnel, particularly in the military sphere, the clear and present danger is more military decisions are delegated to ai and that is pretty much here, with the drones and a feature of the

wards we fight in the years to come. that says to me the walls will be short but utterly devastating. in that respect it does reflect the sort of oppenheimer syndrome that we were talking about? it sort of oppenheimer syndrome that we were talking about?— were talking about? it really does. from the military _ were talking about? it really does. from the military perspective - were talking about? it really does. l from the military perspective people are concerned about drones, as you know, but they are also worried about speeding up decision—making. so if someone else's and no one is contemplating this, and the us and european militaries have rules against this, they always have to have a human in the loop, sol against this, they always have to have a human in the loop, so i don't want your audience to be scared, but there is a frightening scenario where the decision—making is done by artificial intelligence and that reacts much faster than a human, so whoever has the ai involved shoots first. very dangerous, you already have ai fighter pilots that are performing better than human pilots.

so these are all things that need to be thought through. i would respectfully disagree with the other distinguished panellists have said we either have to have the chinese in these discussions or out. i think there is a happy medium and i do think the chinese want to talk about military uses of ai. they are concerned as the west is about how fast this technology is using. but that doesn't mean we need china involved in all the deeply technical discussions where it might result in... �* ., . , , discussions where it might result in... �* ., , , discussions where it might result in... before we wrap this up, brian, if they are — in... before we wrap this up, brian, if they are not _ in... before we wrap this up, brian, if they are not in _ in... before we wrap this up, brian, if they are not in the _ in... before we wrap this up, brian, if they are not in the room, - in... before we wrap this up, brian, if they are not in the room, what. in... before we wrap this up, brian, if they are not in the room, what is| if they are not in the room, what is the point of having, in the west, regulation system if the chinese are not part of it because they not playing by the same rules? that is we need to — playing by the same rules? that is we need to ask _ playing by the same rules? that is we need to ask with _ playing by the same rules? that is we need to ask with regard - playing by the same rules? that is we need to ask with regard to - playing by the same rules? that is we need to ask with regard to the | we need to ask with regard to the discussion— we need to ask with regard to the discussion that took place in washington. i am discussion that took place in washington. iam interested in technology but also ancient knowledge as well. his interests are being _ knowledge as well. his interests are being served? elon musk saying there is a strong _ being served? elon musk saying there is a strong consensus for regulation and then— is a strong consensus for regulation and then you hear him saying the

thing _ and then you hear him saying the thing could go wrong if it is mishandled. he is partly arguing in the interests of the planet, but i am sure — the interests of the planet, but i am sure he _ the interests of the planet, but i am sure he is also arguing and others — am sure he is also arguing and others will— am sure he is also arguing and others will be arguing in the interests of the large companies. they— interests of the large companies. they will— interests of the large companies. they will be looking for a form of regulation — they will be looking for a form of regulation that perhaps recognises their existing strengths and a form of regulation that assists those existing — of regulation that assists those existing strengths and guides it down _ existing strengths and guides it down that path. i am just concerned about— down that path. i am just concerned about that — down that path. i am just concerned about that. we are not sure of the detait— about that. we are not sure of the detail from — about that. we are not sure of the detail from the meetings, but the response — detail from the meetings, but the response to be the regulation was going _ response to be the regulation was going to _ response to be the regulation was going to be in any time soon in the usand— going to be in any time soon in the us and perhaps globally. we going to be in any time soon in the us and perhaps globally.— us and perhaps globally. we will have to leave _ us and perhaps globally. we will have to leave it _ us and perhaps globally. we will have to leave it there, _ us and perhaps globally. we will have to leave it there, thank - us and perhaps globally. we will have to leave it there, thank you all very much. really fascinating article in the politico, if you can have a look. president biden says the car makers in america need to improve their offer to workers, as the strikes begin at three plants in the midwest. the strike called by the united auto workers union will affect three companies — ford, chrysler and general motors. this afternoon, president biden said he "respected" workers' right

to call a work stoppage and urged the company to give them a greater share of the profit. last night, after negotiations broke down, the uaw announced a targeted strike at a few big three auto plants. let's be clear, no—one wants a strike. i'll say it again, no—one wants a strike. but i respect the workers' right to use their options under the collective bargaining system. and i understand the workers' frustration. over generations, auto workers sacrificed so much to keep the industry alive and strong, especially through the economic crisis and the pandemic. workers deserve a fair share of the benefits they helped create for an enterprise. mr biden is under pressure, anja, to support workers he has championed for decades. but on the other hand, a total shutdown would be a significant blow to the economy just as he his ramping up his sales pitch on bidenomics. have you cut your mike, anja? apologies. you're absolutely right,

this is a difficult political issue for the president and the democratic party. this has been a very pro union president we have had, but you also have you also have the dollars of the reduction act to try and get new technology ramped up in the united states and the strikers are saying that labour wasn't considered when the deal went through. i don't know if that is the case or not, but more negotiations are necessary and summer training, more negotiations are necessary and summertraining, so more negotiations are necessary and summer training, so everyone gets the benefit of these newjobs that are coming through clean technology. if you want to get to 270 votes in the electoral college, you need the union on board because the of michigan, a big state important to the president, they haven't give their endorsement to the president? that is absolutely right and that is the heartland. it used to be called in the united states the blue wall, those big blue collar states,

michigan, wisconsin, illinois and increasingly, they are going toward sometimes populist republicans with trump taking some of those states in 2016. this is a real political concern. i 2016. this is a real political concern-— 2016. this is a real political concern. . ., . ~ . , concern. i want to talk about this in the context _ concern. i want to talk about this in the context of— concern. i want to talk about this in the context of the _ concern. i want to talk about this in the context of the steelworksl concern. i want to talk about this | in the context of the steelworks in port talbot and south wales, they will get £500 million from the government into greenaway but that could mean the loss of 3000 jobs. i'm not saying job losses is at the heart of it in the car industry in america, but it is the transition. when you look at transitions in the past in coal mining and shipbuilding, we have not done it very well and you can see why there is a great deal of concern across heavy industry at the moment? coming throu~h is heavy industry at the moment? coming through is the — heavy industry at the moment? coming through is the demand _ heavy industry at the moment? coming through is the demand and _ heavy industry at the moment? coming through is the demand and the - heavy industry at the moment? coming through is the demand and the desire l through is the demand and the desire placed _ through is the demand and the desire placed upon companies and placed upon business generally by the various— upon business generally by the various governments that they have to move _ various governments that they have to move towards a greener agenda because _ to move towards a greener agenda because the governments have set

themselves targets, the agreed targets— themselves targets, the agreed targets internationally. so in the case _ targets internationally. so in the case of _ targets internationally. so in the case of the port talbot is niss, it is 500 _ case of the port talbot is niss, it is 500 million to move away from coal -based — is 500 million to move away from coal —based generation to electricity base generation, but that loses hundreds and hundreds of 'obs, that loses hundreds and hundreds of jobs. even _ that loses hundreds and hundreds of jobs, even thousands ofjobs in the process _ jobs, even thousands of 'obs in the rocess. ~ . . ., ,, , process. what about the 'obs it is creatina ? process. what about the 'obs it is creating? we * process. what about the 'obs it is creating? we shouldn't _ process. what about the jobs it is creating? we shouldn't give - process. what about the jobs it is creating? we shouldn't give the l creating? we shouldn't give the impression the move to green is job negative, there are lots ofjobs, thatjoe biden says are being created? that joe biden says are being created? , . ., that joe biden says are being created? , . . ., created? our behalf at the argument, if the sorting — created? our behalf at the argument, if the sorting out _ created? our behalf at the argument, if the sorting out the _ created? our behalf at the argument, if the sorting out the plans _ created? our behalf at the argument, if the sorting out the plans are - if the sorting out the plans are moving — if the sorting out the plans are moving it _ if the sorting out the plans are moving it away from being dependent upon coat— moving it away from being dependent upon coal could take away 1%, more than i% _ upon coal could take away 1%, more than i% of— upon coal could take away 1%, more than 1% of the uk's total emissions and therefore it is a pretty big deat— and therefore it is a pretty big deal and — and therefore it is a pretty big deal and the other argument is, the plant _ deal and the other argument is, the plant would not survive as it presently is, it has to update. when you look— presently is, it has to update. when you took at— presently is, it has to update. when you look at the arguments in the us it is interesting, but the argument is about— it is interesting, but the argument is about the company is being driven

by the _ is about the company is being driven by the need — is about the company is being driven by the need to meet these targets. targets— by the need to meet these targets. targets which are essentially set by governments. the auto companies, backing _ governments. the auto companies, backing the — governments. the auto companies, backing the autoworkers, i understand why he does, but the auto companies _ understand why he does, but the auto companies are saying, we are potentially losing money because at the same _ potentially losing money because at the same point as continue to supply merrick— the same point as continue to supply merrick and — the same point as continue to supply merrick and the globe with existing... | merrick and the globe with existing- - -_ merrick and the globe with existin: . .. , . ,., , existing... i understand, sorry i 'ust cut existing... i understand, sorry i just cut across _ existing... i understand, sorry i just cut across you. _ existing... i understand, sorry i just cut across you. we - existing... i understand, sorry i just cut across you. we will - existing... i understand, sorry i | just cut across you. we will take existing... i understand, sorry i i just cut across you. we will take a quick break around the world and here in the uk, you are watching bbc news. let's look at some other stories making news. train drivers in the aslef union have announced further strike dates in their long—running dispute about pay. they'll walk out on the 30th of september and on the 4th of october, coinciding with the annual conservative party conference in manchester. spain's high court has imposed a restraining order on the former head of the country's football federation, luis rubiales. he's now not allowed within 200 metres of the strikerjenni hermoso, after kissing her on the lips following the women's world cup final — an act she says was without her consent. but the top spanish women players are continuing their boycott of the national team, demanding more changes in the sport's leadership.

tiktok has been fined almost 350 million euros by the eu for child data breaches. an investigation found that children's accounts were set to public by default. the social media platform says it disagrees with the decision and has since introduced privacy changes. you're live with bbc news. some important news today about the loyalty schemes we sign up to. and whether they are everything they are cracked up to be. the consumer group which? has been monitoring the big supermarket giants and has accused sainsbury�*s and tesco of using some pretty dodgy tactics. the suggestion is that the price goes up for a couple of weeks and then the club card or loyalty scheme discount is applied, taking it back down to the price that it was a couple of weeks ago. so, example — a jar of nescafe gold blend instant coffee was advertised at sainsbury�*s

for £6 with a nectar card, that a saving of £2.10 on the "regular" price of £8.10. but which says the regular price had also been £6 at sainsbury�*s, until it went up to £8.10 just two days before. here's an example from tesco. heinz salad cream clubcard — price £3.50. regular price £3.90 — even though its regular price had been £2.99 several weeks before. it was increased to £3.90, 22 days before the clubcard promotion. harry kind is the consumer expert at which? how long did you do this survey for and how wide was the basket of goods you are looking at? we and how wide was the basket of goods you are looking at?— you are looking at? we did this over six months. — you are looking at? we did this over six months, tracked _ you are looking at? we did this over six months, tracked prices - you are looking at? we did this over six months, tracked prices and - you are looking at? we did this over six months, tracked prices and 141 l six months, tracked prices and 141 different prices and that is a combination of the tesco club card

prices, sainsbury�*s nectar prices and that is before and after both the sainsbury�*s nectar scheme was launched and it allowed us to see the previous prices before the scheme came into see if the regular price, the usual price, the cordless price, the usual price, the cordless price that people who don't have a nectar card would be paying, it really was this inflated price, whether itjust really was this inflated price, whether it just shot really was this inflated price, whether itjust shot up before the nectar and the clubcard deal started. ., , . ., , started. how did these reductions com ared started. how did these reductions compared with — started. how did these reductions compared with prices _ started. how did these reductions compared with prices at _ started. how did these reductions compared with prices at rival- compared with prices at rival supermarkets?— compared with prices at rival supermarkets? compared with prices at rival su ermarkets? , ., supermarkets? often you will find that exclusive _ supermarkets? often you will find that exclusive special _ supermarkets? often you will find that exclusive special members i supermarkets? often you will find i that exclusive special members only deal would be available to everyone just down the road at asda. for example, the coffee was available for £6 at tesco, at asda, waitrose and was 50p cheaper at lidl. these are the kind of average prices that people are paying and it's not really a case of lower prices for

loyal members, it is about higher prices for everyone else. that is what it seems to be from our research. {lit what it seems to be from our research-— what it seems to be from our research. _, , , ., ., �* research. of course, if you don't have a clubcard, _ research. of course, if you don't have a clubcard, you _ research. of course, if you don't have a clubcard, you are - research. of course, if you don't have a clubcard, you are being l have a clubcard, you are being penalised and they want us to sign up penalised and they want us to sign up for these club cards because we give our data away for free. could it be explained that prices are being manipulated daily at the moment as supermarkets deal with inflation and supply lines, could it be that? . ., . . be that? inflation at that particular— be that? inflation at that particular time _ be that? inflation at that particular time on - be that? inflation at that particular time on those | be that? inflation at that - particular time on those foods can find exactly within the club cards and nectar prices, it seems a little bit suspect. and that is played out by the fact it is not an inflation that we would see in all of those other supermarkets at the exact same time. this is why it is important the competition and markets authority takes a look at what has gone on and says, is this a genuine reduction for consumers? or is there

some manipulation going on? otherwise, we have people out there buying things they didn't want because they thought they were getting a special limited time only deal. and that is just not right during a cost of living crisis. share during a cost of living crisis. are ou a during a cost of living crisis. are you a clubcard _ during a cost of living crisis. are you a clubcard connoisseur, do you sign up for all these deals? i had you a clubcard connoisseur, do you sign up for all these deals?- sign up for all these deals? i had a tesco one — sign up for all these deals? i had a tesco one once _ sign up for all these deals? i had a tesco one once and _ sign up for all these deals? i had a tesco one once and now _ sign up for all these deals? i had a tesco one once and now i - sign up for all these deals? i had a| tesco one once and now i regularly turn out _ tesco one once and now i regularly turn out every single one of them, life is— turn out every single one of them, life is too— turn out every single one of them, life is too complicated. i followed this story — life is too complicated. i followed this story because you are talking about— this story because you are talking about coffee and salad cream a few minutes _ about coffee and salad cream a few minutes ago. i gather the jammie dodgers, — minutes ago. i gather the jammie dodgers, this is absolutely serious. i'm dodgers, this is absolutely serious. i'm sure _ dodgers, this is absolutely serious. i'm sure the — dodgers, this is absolutely serious. i'm sure the answer given by alistair— i'm sure the answer given by alistairand i'm sure the answer given by alistair and others, they insist on offering _ alistair and others, they insist on offering beneficial deals while inflation is making price changes very volatile. i studied the information with which it is given with great— information with which it is given with great interest.— information with which it is given with great interest. an'a, there is such psychology h with great interest. an'a, there is such psychology that h with great interest. anja, there is

such psychology that goes - with great interest. anja, there is such psychology that goes into i such psychology that goes into pricing, it would stand to reason that there are supermarkets in the states doing similar things? i am states doing similar things? i am sure there are, _ states doing similar things? i am sure there are, i _ states doing similar things? i am sure there are, i am _ states doing similar things? i am sure there are, i am not - states doing similar things? i am sure there are, i am not an - sure there are, i am not an expert... — sure there are, i am not an expert- - -— sure there are, i am not an exert... ~ . . . . . expert... what about salad cream? much more — expert... what about salad cream? much more careful _ expert... what about salad cream? much more careful about _ expert... what about salad cream? much more careful about loyalty i much more careful about loyalty cards _ much more careful about loyalty cards. e—commerce _ much more careful about loyalty cards. e—commerce is— much more careful about loyalty cards. e—commerce is extreme, | much more careful about loyalty i cards. e—commerce is extreme, if much more careful about loyalty - cards. e—commerce is extreme, if you are one _ cards. e—commerce is extreme, if you are one person— cards. e—commerce is extreme, if you are one person and _ cards. e—commerce is extreme, if you are one person and you _ cards. e—commerce is extreme, if you are one person and you google - cards. e—commerce is extreme, if you are one person and you google and i are one person and you google and -et are one person and you google and get the _ are one person and you google and get the same — are one person and you google and get the same price _ are one person and you google and get the same price on— are one person and you google and get the same price on amazon i are one person and you google and get the same price on amazon that are one person and you google and i get the same price on amazon that it could _ get the same price on amazon that it could be _ get the same price on amazon that it could be different _ get the same price on amazon that it could be different to _ get the same price on amazon that it could be different to the _ get the same price on amazon that it could be different to the person - could be different to the person sitting _ could be different to the person sitting next— could be different to the person sitting next door— could be different to the person sitting next door to _ could be different to the person sitting next door to you. - could be different to the person sitting next door to you.- sitting next door to you. harry, the call sitting next door to you. harry, they call it _ sitting next door to you. harry, they call it the _ sitting next door to you. harry, they call it the anchor - sitting next door to you. harry, they call it the anchor pricing, l they call it the anchor pricing, this higher pricing and then you get a discount and you think you are getting a 25% discount, but really you're only getting 15%. does that matter, you are still ripping off customers?— matter, you are still ripping off customers? ~ , , . , customers? absolutely it matters. if customers--- — customers? absolutely it matters. if customers... we _ customers? absolutely it matters. if customers... we know _ customers? absolutely it matters. if customers... we know customers i customers? absolutely it matters. if| customers... we know customers are drawn in by a flashy offer. if they are choosing something which is not what they wanted, isn't as good

value at something on the same shelf, let alone down the street, that really is a bad option. i would also point out that deals are great when they can be accessed by everyone. we know for a fact these loyalty cards won't work if you are under the age of 18, you are not eligible, if you don't have a fixed and permanent uk address, you are not eligible. if you are a tourist, you are losing out. if you forget your bitter plastic, you are having to pay more for the exact same stuff. ., , ., . ~ ., . ~ stuff. lovely to talk to you, thank ou ve stuff. lovely to talk to you, thank you very much- — stuff. lovely to talk to you, thank you very much. going _ stuff. lovely to talk to you, thank you very much. going to - stuff. lovely to talk to you, thank you very much. going to a - stuff. lovely to talk to you, thank you very much. going to a short l you very much. going to a short break and i will ponder that brian thinks salad cream is frippery. we will be right back. hello there, good evening. it's been another day of contrasts across the uk, with a band of really quite heavy rain across southern scotland, the central belt, eastern areas of northern ireland and parts of northern england throughout the day. to the north of that weather front,

some brightness towards the south, lots of sunshine such as here in bedfordshire. again, it was warm for the time of year, and it will turn more humid in the south over the course of the weekend. still, fresher conditions persist further north. some showers just about everywhere, particularly through the day on sunday. still some wet weather to come, too, overnight tonight, but that band of showery rain is gradually starting to weaken. some heavy, thundery downpours move in across the channel islands, maybe into the south—west of england, too, in time for tomorrow morning. a range of temperatures mid to high single figures towards the north, 12 or 13 degrees celsius in the south, where we're drawing in more of a south—easterly wind, pushing that humid air towards us from the near continent. here, we'll see the best of the day, sunshine again tomorrow. and temperatures could rise to 26 or 27 degrees celsius, largely dry further north, but still a few showers across the north—west of england, where again, it is going to be feeling cooler. now we're going to see that humid air hang on through the day on sunday. it's going to help to spark off some heavy, thundery downpours towards the south of england. there could be some frequent lightning, particularly as we head into the evening, but that band of showers moves northwards and eastwards. some showers, too, approaching

western scotland, where again, it is feeling fresher, but the humid air hangs on towards the south and the east. now, throughout the day on sunday, that band of thundery rain is just set to push northwards and eastwards. we'll see some cold fronts just push through from the west on monday. this is likely to give us some heavy rain at times, but it will sweep away that humid air, to be replaced with something a lot fresher as we head into the start of next week. various weather fronts waiting out in the atlantic. it is going to be really very unsettled, but some sunshine ahead of that band of rain on monday. some sunny spells behind, but also a rash of showers, too. temperatures starting to drop, and that humid air will be replaced by the cooler conditions as we head through monday night and into tuesday. so, the details still likely to change as we head through next week, but generally feeling a lot more like autumn. unsettled, wet and windy at times, also cooler. bye— bye.

hello, i'm christian fraser. you're watching the context on bbc news. so much to admire in scotland. who wouldn't want to live there? and yet the beautiful west highlands are emptying and the young population is dwindling. what does the scottish government do about it?

welcome back. welcome back. italy's interior ministry says nearly 7,000 migrants who've crossed from north africa have arrived on the island of lampedusa in just two days. that's more than the island's local population. the mayor of lampedusa has called for immediate assistance from the italian government and the eu. the european commission says it stands ready to help. but i am not sure that is the position of italy's closest neighours. the italian minister matteo salvini has accused france and germany of leaving his country to face the problem alone. in the last hour we spoke to luca barana, a research fellow at iai, an italian relations think tank — his research focussing on eu and italian migration policies. the situation that we are witnessing over the last 12 months has been an intensification of already existing trends that started in 2020. numbers in spontaneous arrivals

in italy and irregular crossings of the central mediterranean sea have been increasing since 2020.