and king charles nagorno—karabakh. and king charles meets with president emmanuel macron in the elysee palace come up with a state banquet later. more on the speech from the prime minister rishi sunak, changing some of the government's policies when it comes to net zero. for more on that, let's speak to steve reid, the shadow secretary of state for environment. thanks forjoining us here on the bbc news. let's just get your reaction and your party's reaction to the prime minister's speech. reaction to the prime minister's seech. , , , ., reaction to the prime minister's seech. , _ ., . ., speech. this is yet more chaos from a government _ speech. this is yet more chaos from a government that _ speech. this is yet more chaos from a government that no _ speech. this is yet more chaos from a government that no longer - speech. this is yet more chaos from a government that no longer seems | speech. this is yet more chaos from i a government that no longer seems to have an economic or industrial strategy. first, we had late—night leaks from 10 downing street and midnight press releases and a pressed —— and a rushed speech. the speech rishi sunakjust gave, he has pretty much sold out the biggest economic opportunity of the 21st—century and that is for britain

to lead the world in transitioning to lead the world in transitioning to the good newjobs, well—paid secure jobs of the green economy. and in doing that, he is undermining business confidence and he is deterring inward investment that will pay the wages are british workers in the future. it is not just me doing —— saying that, that comes from the chairman of ford, one of the captain of british industry. let me ask you what labour would do differently if at all. let's start with one of the key changes that we have seen and that is effectively a delay on the ban of petrol or new petrol and diesel cars that was meant to be 2030, that has now been pushed back to 2035. would labour keep it at 2030?— keep it at 2030? yes, because industry has — keep it at 2030? yes, because industry has been _ keep it at 2030? yes, because industry has been gearing - keep it at 2030? yes, because industry has been gearing up l keep it at 2030? yes, because - industry has been gearing up towards 2030 as the date by which you can no longer buy a brand—new petrol vehicle. he could keep the car you have got if it is petrol, you don't have got if it is petrol, you don't have to get rid of that, this is

about the sales of new vehicles. if we still allow petrol vehicles to be sold at that point, we are not going to hit net zero targets for 2030, that means we will miss the next target for 2050, by which we are supposed to have a fully carbon—free economy. but worse than that, we will deter the inward investment that we need to really turbo—charge that we need to really turbo—charge that sector of the economy, which is where the big newjobs of the future will be. just think of this, britain could lead the world in this, but the government have decided to throw that out of the window and it will actually cost british consumers more because it costs more to fill up a car with petrol than it would be to power it with electricity. so everyone is a loser from what rishi sunak has just announced. that everyone is a loser from what rishi sunak hasjust announced.- sunak has 'ust announced. that is not what sunak hasjust announced. that is not what the _ sunak hasjust announced. that is not what the prime _ sunak hasjust announced. that is not what the prime minister - sunak hasjust announced. that is| not what the prime minister would say and nor would some of his party. there are some in his party who don't agree, but that is not what the prime minister would say. he says he is going to give more allowances for people to switch

their boilers, he has increase that amount for the upgrade scheme to £7,500. and he does say there are unacceptable costs to british families. and crucially, one more thing i would like to get your response on is that the prime minister says the uk is so far ahead of every other country in the world when it comes to some of the main targets and that the share of global emissions from the uk is less than 1%, that is what the prime minister said in his speech. so he would argue things are on track and this is a cost—of—living crisis where many families simply can't afford to make these changes.— make these changes. well, the cost-of-living _ make these changes. well, the cost-of-living crisis _ make these changes. well, the cost-of-living crisis was - make these changes. well, the | cost-of-living crisis was created make these changes. well, the - cost-of-living crisis was created by cost—of—living crisis was created by the conservatives and rishi sunak when they crash the economy last year. but the lower bills for british households will come by making these changes and not by delaying them. so labour wants to set up a privately owned company called gb energy to direct private

and public investment. into forms of sustainable energy that we can create at home in the uk, wind, wave, solar and nuclear, that gives control of our own energy supplies so we are no longer dependent on the likes of vladimir putin, and it also lowers costs. so we can lower people's household bills by maintaining the transition targets. rishi sunak is throwing it away and he seems to be doing that for what he seems to be doing that for what he in my view wrongly assumes to be the narrow party—political advantage of the conservative party. but in doing that, he is trashing our chance to be a global leader, to bring in that investment and to get the good secure well—paid jobs of the good secure well—paid jobs of the future by being a clean energy superpower. that can only now happen with the election of a labour government next year.- with the election of a labour government next year. let's go throu~h government next year. let's go through some _ government next year. let's go through some of _ government next year. let's go through some of the _ government next year. let's go through some of the other- government next year. let's go - through some of the other proposals or changes that the prime minister announced. i could do with a simple yes or no about whether the labour party if they were in government would do the same. so the prime minister said that there would be no

new taxes to discourage flying. would labour bring in any new taxes to discourage flying?— to discourage flying? there are no ro osals to discourage flying? there are no preposals for _ to discourage flying? there are no proposals for new _ to discourage flying? there are no proposals for new taxes _ to discourage flying? there are no proposals for new taxes for - to discourage flying? there are no proposals for new taxes for flying | proposals for new taxes for flying in any case. he is literally making things up and knocking them down, they are straw men he has popped up. there would be no proposal to have seven different bins in your home for recycling. seven different bins in your home for recycling-— for recycling. again, he was preposing — for recycling. again, he was preposing that _ for recycling. again, he was proposing that in _ for recycling. again, he was proposing that in the - for recycling. again, he was proposing that in the first . for recycling. again, he was - proposing that in the first place? it is inventing things and saying he won't do them. the key thing is he will ruin our chance to lead the world and the green economy of the future. ~ ., ,, , ., ., future. would you reverse that and brina in a future. would you reverse that and bring in a law _ future. would you reverse that and bring in a law for— future. would you reverse that and bring in a law for example - future. would you reverse that and bring in a law for example that - bring in a law for example that would bring in taxes to discourage people from flying and would you bring in proposals for a mandate people have seven bins for recycling?— people have seven bins for re clinu? ~ , ., ., people have seven bins for re clin? �* , ., ., recycling? absolutely not, and has pronounced _ recycling? absolutely not, and has pronounced that, _ recycling? absolutely not, and has pronounced that, rishi _ recycling? absolutely not, and has pronounced that, rishi sunak- recycling? absolutely not, and has pronounced that, rishi sunak put i pronounced that, rishi sunak put that out of thin air.— that out of thin air. these will help reduce — that out of thin air. these will help reduce carbon _ that out of thin air. these will| help reduce carbon emissions, physically some people say they should be taxes brought in to discourage people from flying. but

no discourage people from flying. emit no serious political party has proposed these things. what rishi sunak is actually doing is delaying our transition to the green economy and deterring inward investment and damaging our chance to get the good, well—paid jobs up and down our country that britain so desperately needs. we are facing a cost—of—living crisis right now in part because the conservatives failed to grow the economy for 13 years. that's why wages have been low and taxes are so high. no rishi sunak say give the tories are re—elected, they will keep the economy is shrunken and small, only labour will grow it so we can meet the challenges and sees them for the benefit of british workers up and down the country.— benefit of british workers up and down the country. thank you very much, down the country. thank you very much. steve _ down the country. thank you very much, steve reed, _ down the country. thank you very much, steve reed, the _ down the country. thank you very much, steve reed, the shadow. much, steve reed, the shadow secretary of state for the environment. now as promised, time for your questions answered. and as we have been talking about, the prime minister has been outlining plans to

change the government's green targets, mr sunak has pushed back on a ban of the sale of new petrol and diesel cars in the uk which was initially set for 2030, he has now moved that to 2035. the prime minister also says there will be far more time to transition from gas boilers to heat pumps and there will be new exemptions for the poorest households. but the prime minister says he remains committed to net zero by 2050 and wants to bring people with us. the announcement has raised questions about the environment, climate and politics. this country is proud to be a world leader in reaching net zero by 2050. but we simply won't achieve it unless we change. we are now going to have a better, more honest debate about how we get there. we will now have a more pragmatic, proportionate and realistic approach that eases the burden on families. orwell doubling down on the new green industries the future.—

industries the future. joining me now, a industries the future. joining me now. a group — industries the future. joining me now. a group of— industries the future. joining me now, a group of guests - industries the future. joining me now, a group of guests and - industries the future. joining me i now, a group of guests and expert industries the future. joining me - now, a group of guests and expert to help us understand what exactly is going on —— all while doubling down. jonah fisher is our climate and environment correspondent. we have scientist and director of oxford university's net zero initiative myles allen. and our uk political correspondent rob watson. a lot of questions that people have been sending for this. jonah, starting with this question which a number of people have asked, what is net zero and what have the government previously pledged to maintain that at? , , ., ., previously pledged to maintain that at? ,_, ., at? this is a legal commitment enshrined _ at? this is a legal commitment enshrined in _ at? this is a legal commitment enshrined in law— at? this is a legal commitment enshrined in law during - at? this is a legal commitment enshrined in law during the - at? this is a legal commitment i enshrined in law during the trees are made premiership which is effectively that the uk will reach net zero greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. that doesn't mean there won't be any emissions of these gases which warm the atmosphere, but if there is, there will be compensatory

measures and perhaps technology used to take out some of that carbon dioxide or other gases out of the atmosphere. so effectively by 2050, if we reach net zero, we should no longer be contributing to the warming of the planet. another ruestion warming of the planet. another question for — warming of the planet. another question for all _ warming of the planet. another question for all three _ warming of the planet. another question for all three of - warming of the planet. another question for all three of you, i l question for all three of you, i will put this to all three of you from jacob. given the current policies will not come close in his view to achieving net zero by 2050, how does the uk government plans to cut these policies and still achieve net zero by 2050? he asks, does this mean the legal requirement to reach net zero by 2050 is meaningless? rob, the prime minister was asked about that in the news conference so i will let you take that first. jacob, in case you didn't see at all, essentially what the prime minister— all, essentially what the prime minister argued is even without these _ minister argued is even without these measures or the delay in these measures— these measures or the delay in these measures such as the introduction of electric— measures such as the introduction of electric vehicles, britain was on course — electric vehicles, britain was on course to— electric vehicles, britain was on course to meet them anyway. so that

was his— course to meet them anyway. so that was his assertion. weather scientists, where the industry agrees — scientists, where the industry agrees with that, that is precisely what _ agrees with that, that is precisely what he _ agrees with that, that is precisely what he asserted, that we would meet them anyway. what he asserted, that we would meet them anyway-— them anyway. let's bring you in on that, myles — them anyway. let's bring you in on that, myles allen. _ them anyway. let's bring you in on that, myles allen. that _ them anyway. let's bring you in on that, myles allen. that is - them anyway. let's bring you in on that, myles allen. that is certainly j that, myles allen. that is certainly not the change _ that, myles allen. that is certainly not the change -- _ that, myles allen. that is certainly not the change -- few— that, myles allen. that is certainly not the change -- few of _ that, myles allen. that is certainly not the change -- few of the - that, myles allen. that is certainly l not the change -- few of the climate not the change —— few of the climate change _ not the change —— few of the climate change committee _ not the change —— few of the climate change committee almost _ not the change —— few of the climate change committee almost scientist. | change committee almost scientist. we were _ change committee almost scientist. we were barely— change committee almost scientist. we were barely going _ change committee almost scientist. we were barely going to _ change committee almost scientist. we were barely going to meet - change committee almost scientist. we were barely going to meet our. we were barely going to meet our goals— we were barely going to meet our goals if— we were barely going to meet our goals if that — we were barely going to meet our goals if that before _ we were barely going to meet our goals if that before these - we were barely going to meet ourl goals if that before these changes, so i think— goals if that before these changes, so i think rishi _ goals if that before these changes, so i think rishi sunak— goals if that before these changes, so i think rishi sunak is— goals if that before these changes, so i think rishi sunak is very- goals if that before these changes, so i think rishi sunak is very keenl so i think rishi sunak is very keen on also _ so i think rishi sunak is very keen on also keeping _ so i think rishi sunak is very keen on also keeping up _ so i think rishi sunak is very keen on also keeping up maths - so i think rishi sunak is very keen on also keeping up maths as - so i think rishi sunak is very keen on also keeping up maths as longj so i think rishi sunak is very keen. on also keeping up maths as long as we can— on also keeping up maths as long as we can and — on also keeping up maths as long as we can and i— on also keeping up maths as long as we can and i think— on also keeping up maths as long as we can and i think what _ on also keeping up maths as long as we can and i think what is _ we can and i think what is depressing _ we can and i think what is depressing about - we can and i think what is depressing about the - we can and i think what is - depressing about the changes he we can and i think what is _ depressing about the changes he has told us _ depressing about the changes he has told us about— depressing about the changes he has told us about as _ depressing about the changes he has told us about as they— depressing about the changes he has told us about as they are _ depressing about the changes he has told us about as they are all - depressing about the changes he has told us about as they are all in - depressing about the changes he has told us about as they are all in the i told us about as they are all in the same _ told us about as they are all in the same direction. _ told us about as they are all in the same direction. if— told us about as they are all in the same direction. if he _ told us about as they are all in the same direction. if he was - told us about as they are all in the i same direction. if he was announcing some _ same direction. if he was announcing some measures _ same direction. if he was announcing some measures that _ same direction. if he was announcing some measures that make _ same direction. if he was announcing some measures that make it- same direction. if he was announcing some measures that make it more i some measures that make it more ambitious — some measures that make it more ambitious what _ some measures that make it more ambitious what we _ some measures that make it more ambitious what we are _ some measures that make it more ambitious what we are planning i some measures that make it more ambitious what we are planning toj some measures that make it more i ambitious what we are planning to do and some _ ambitious what we are planning to do and some that — ambitious what we are planning to do and some that make _ ambitious what we are planning to do and some that make it _ ambitious what we are planning to do and some that make it less— and some that make it less ambitious, _ and some that make it less ambitious, that— and some that make it less ambitious, that would - and some that make it less ambitious, that would be . and some that make it less ambitious, that would be ifj and some that make it less- ambitious, that would be if you like ambitious, that would be if you like a net _ ambitious, that would be if you like a net zero _ ambitious, that would be if you like a net zero reform _ ambitious, that would be if you like a net zero reform of— ambitious, that would be if you like a net zero reform of our— ambitious, that would be if you like a net zero reform of our net - ambitious, that would be if you like a net zero reform of our net zero i a net zero reform of our net zero strategy~ — a net zero reform of our net zero strategy~ but— a net zero reform of our net zero strategy~ but it _ a net zero reform of our net zero strategy. but it is _ a net zero reform of our net zero strategy. but it is all— a net zero reform of our net zero strategy. but it is all going - a net zero reform of our net zero strategy. but it is all going one i strategy. but it is all going one way and — strategy. but it is all going one way and that— strategy. but it is all going one way and that is _ strategy. but it is all going one way and that is what _ strategy. but it is all going one way and that is what doesn't i strategy. but it is all going one. way and that is what doesn't add strategy. but it is all going one - way and that is what doesn't add up to me _ way and that is what doesn't add up to me if_ way and that is what doesn't add up to me if we — way and that is what doesn't add up to me if we do— way and that is what doesn't add up to me. if we do everything - way and that is what doesn't add up to me. if we do everything slower, i to me. if we do everything slower, we are _ to me. if we do everything slower, we are just — to me. if we do everything slower, we are just going _ to me. if we do everything slower, we are just going to _ to me. if we do everything slower, we are just going to make - to me. if we do everything slower, we are just going to make it - to me. if we do everything slower, we are just going to make it morel we are just going to make it more difficult _ we are just going to make it more difficult to — we are just going to make it more difficult to reach _ we are just going to make it more difficult to reach that _ we are just going to make it more difficult to reach that target - we are just going to make it more difficult to reach that target and l difficult to reach that target and more _ difficult to reach that target and more difficult _ difficult to reach that target and more difficult for— difficult to reach that target and more difficult for us, _ difficult to reach that target and more difficult for us, for- difficult to reach that target and more difficult for us, for our- more difficult for us, for our children— more difficult for us, for our children in— more difficult for us, for our children in the _ more difficult for us, for our children in the 20 _ more difficult for us, for our children in the 20 30s - more difficult for us, for our children in the 20 30s and l

more difficult for us, for our. children in the 20 30s and 20 more difficult for us, for our- children in the 20 30s and 20 40s to meet _ children in the 20 30s and 20 40s to meet the _ children in the 20 30s and 20 40s to meet the target _ children in the 20 30s and 20 40s to meet the target in _ children in the 20 30s and 20 40s to meet the target in 2050. _ children in the 20 30s and 20 40s to meet the target in 2050.— meet the target in 2050. jonah, you look like you — meet the target in 2050. jonah, you look like you want _ meet the target in 2050. jonah, you look like you want to _ meet the target in 2050. jonah, you look like you want to add _ meet the target in 2050. jonah, you look like you want to add your- look like you want to add your thoughts. look like you want to add your thou~hts. , ., , ,., thoughts. interesting professor allen mention _ thoughts. interesting professor allen mention that _ thoughts. interesting professor allen mention that climate - thoughts. interesting professor i allen mention that climate change committee, — allen mention that climate change committee, they— allen mention that climate change committee, they are _ allen mention that climate change committee, they are the _ allen mention that climate change committee, they are the state - allen mention that climate changel committee, they are the state body which _ committee, they are the state body which is _ committee, they are the state body which is the — committee, they are the state body which is the adviser— committee, they are the state body which is the adviser to _ committee, they are the state body which is the adviser to the - which is the adviser to the government— which is the adviser to the government on— which is the adviser to the government on climate i which is the adviser to the - government on climate change which is the adviser to the _ government on climate change policy, it does— government on climate change policy, it does the _ government on climate change policy, it does the maths _ government on climate change policy, it does the maths for— government on climate change policy, it does the maths for the _ government on climate change policy, it does the maths for the governmentl it does the maths for the government to say— it does the maths for the government to say whether — it does the maths for the government to say whether it _ it does the maths for the government to say whether it will— it does the maths for the government to say whether it will hit _ it does the maths for the government to say whether it will hit its _ to say whether it will hit its targets _ to say whether it will hit its targets it _ to say whether it will hit its targets. it has _ to say whether it will hit its targets. it hasjust- to say whether it will hit its targets. it hasjust put- to say whether it will hit its targets. it hasjust put outi to say whether it will hit itsl targets. it hasjust put out a statement _ targets. it hasjust put out a statement following - targets. it hasjust put out a statement following on - targets. it hasjust put out a| statement following on from targets. it hasjust put out a - statement following on from rishi sunaks— statement following on from rishi sunak's press— statement following on from rishi sunak's press conference. - statement following on from rishi sunak's press conference. i- statement following on from rishi sunak's press conference. i will. sunak's press conference. i will 'ust sunak's press conference. i will just read — sunak's press conference. i will just read a _ sunak's press conference. i will just read a little _ sunak's press conference. i will just read a little part _ sunak's press conference. i will just read a little part of - sunak's press conference. i will just read a little part of it - sunak's press conference. i will just read a little part of it to - just read a little part of it to you — just read a little part of it to you it — just read a little part of it to you. it says. _ just read a little part of it to you. it says. we _ just read a little part of it to you. it says, we need - just read a little part of it to you. it says, we need to - just read a little part of it to you. it says, we need to gol just read a little part of it to - you. it says, we need to go away and do the _ you. it says, we need to go away and do the calculations, _ you. it says, we need to go away and do the calculations, but _ you. it says, we need to go away and do the calculations, but today's - do the calculations, but today's announcement _ do the calculations, but today's announcement is _ do the calculations, but today's announcement is likely- do the calculations, but today's announcement is likely to - do the calculations, but today's announcement is likely to takel do the calculations, but today's i announcement is likely to take the uk further— announcement is likely to take the uk further away _ announcement is likely to take the uk further away from _ announcement is likely to take the uk further away from being - announcement is likely to take the uk further away from being able . announcement is likely to take the| uk further away from being able to meet _ uk further away from being able to meet its _ uk further away from being able to meet its legal _ uk further away from being able to meet its legal commitments. - uk further away from being able to meet its legal commitments. thisl meet its legal commitments. this coupled _ meet its legal commitments. this coupled with _ meet its legal commitments. this coupled with the _ meet its legal commitments. this coupled with the recent _ meet its legal commitments. this. coupled with the recent unsuccessful offshore _ coupled with the recent unsuccessful offshore wind — coupled with the recent unsuccessful offshore wind option, _ coupled with the recent unsuccessful offshore wind option, this— coupled with the recent unsuccessful offshore wind option, this was - coupled with the recent unsuccessful offshore wind option, this was an - offshore wind option, this was an attempt — offshore wind option, this was an attempt to— offshore wind option, this was an attempt to get _ offshore wind option, this was an attempt to get new _ offshore wind option, this was an attempt to get new wind - offshore wind option, this was an attempt to get new wind farms . offshore wind option, this was an - attempt to get new wind farms going, -ives attempt to get new wind farms going, gives us— attempt to get new wind farms going, gives us concern _ attempt to get new wind farms going, gives us concern. already _ attempt to get new wind farms going, gives us concern. already earlier- gives us concern. already earlier this year. — gives us concern. already earlier this year. we _ gives us concern. already earlier this year, we had _ gives us concern. already earlier this year, we had heard - gives us concern. already earlier this year, we had heard from - gives us concern. already earlierj this year, we had heard from the climate — this year, we had heard from the climate change _ this year, we had heard from the climate change committee - this year, we had heard from the climate change committee that. this year, we had heard from the - climate change committee that they believed _ climate change committee that they believed there — climate change committee that they believed there was _ climate change committee that they believed there was a _ climate change committee that they believed there was a worryingly- climate change committee that they believed there was a worryingly slow progress _ believed there was a worryingly slow progress on — believed there was a worryingly slow progress on reaching _ believed there was a worryingly slow progress on reaching net— believed there was a worryingly slow progress on reaching net zero. - progress on reaching net zero. today. — progress on reaching net zero. today, this is that _ progress on reaching net zero. today, this is that immediatel today, this is that immediate verdict — today, this is that immediate verdict on _ today, this is that immediate verdict on what _ today, this is that immediate verdict on what rishi - today, this is that immediate verdict on what rishi sunak. today, this is that immediate l verdict on what rishi sunak has today, this is that immediate - verdict on what rishi sunak hasjust been _ verdict on what rishi sunak hasjust been saying — verdict on what rishi sunak hasjust been saying and _ verdict on what rishi sunak hasjust been saying and it _ verdict on what rishi sunak hasjust been saying and it doesn't - verdict on what rishi sunak hasjust been saying and it doesn't look - been saying and it doesn't look good — been saying and it doesn't look rood. . , been saying and it doesn't look iood. ., , , been saying and it doesn't look rood. ., , , ., ,, been saying and it doesn't look ood. ., , , ., 4' ,., good. that is interesting, thank you

for that update, _ good. that is interesting, thank you for that update, jonah. _ good. that is interesting, thank you for that update, jonah. another - for that update, jonah. another question, i don't have a name on this one. but it asks, the government suggests that the uk is contributing more to cutting climate change than other countries. that is certainly what the prime minister as saying in a news conference as well. this question asks, is that true? jonah, is that true? there are many different ways of measuring, rishi sunak would say the uk's contribution to greenhouse gas emissions is only 1%. there are many different ways you can look at it. if you look at how much co2 emissions have fallen since 1990, yes, we have had a dramatic fall, nearly half the amount of emissions we have made since 1990 has reduced. that is to a significant extent because we have moved away from generating electricity from coal to gas and renewables. so yes, we have done very well in the past in the uk in terms of cutting emissions compared to other countries. but i think what the concern that has been

expressed is the next step, can we continue to do that, does the ambition exist within government to continue what has been a very successful policy for the government so far? ., ,,., successful policy for the government so far? ., , . successful policy for the government sofar? ., . so far? professor allen, let me ask ou that so far? professor allen, let me ask you that question _ so far? professor allen, let me ask you that question is _ so far? professor allen, let me ask you that question is welcome - so far? professor allen, let me ask you that question is welcome is - so far? professor allen, let me ask| you that question is welcome is that correct? ., , , correct? the other thing is it is very flattering _ correct? the other thing is it is very flattering to _ correct? the other thing is it is very flattering to the _ correct? the other thing is it is very flattering to the uk - correct? the other thing is it is very flattering to the uk to - correct? the other thing is it is l very flattering to the uk to start the calculation in 1990. we started emitting _ the calculation in 1990. we started emitting greenhouse gases to the atmosphere and we kind of invented this problem back in the 18th century— this problem back in the 18th century with the industrial revolution. so we have actually contributed more than almost any other— contributed more than almost any other country per head of population to warming — other country per head of population to warming today. so it just other country per head of population to warming today. so itjust makes sense _ to warming today. so itjust makes sense that — to warming today. so itjust makes sense that we should lead to the world _ sense that we should lead to the world out — sense that we should lead to the world out of this, having led the world _ world out of this, having led the world into — world out of this, having led the world into it. and there is an opportunity here, this is what everybody is feeling slightly exacerbated —— —— about, there are so many— exacerbated —— —— about, there are so many opportunities to benefit from _ so many opportunities to benefit from the — so many opportunities to benefit from the transition away from fossil fuels as— from the transition away from fossil fuels as we — from the transition away from fossil fuels as we benefited from the

transition into fossil fuels 200 years— transition into fossil fuels 200 years ago that it is rather puzzling to understand why the government seems _ to understand why the government seems to— to understand why the government seems to want to create all this uncertainty around this at the moment— uncertainty around this at the moment when there was already plenty of uncertainty. moment when there was already plenty of uncertainty-— of uncertainty. thank you, another ruestion of uncertainty. thank you, another question from _ of uncertainty. thank you, another question from chris. _ of uncertainty. thank you, another question from chris. chris - of uncertainty. thank you, another question from chris. chris asks, i of uncertainty. thank you, another i question from chris. chris asks, 9096 question from chris. chris asks, 90% of people are onlyjust breaking even. how are they going to spend 25,000 plus on an electric car and 15,000 on a heat pump? what support is there for people to switch? rob, let's bring you in because the prime minister did mention some support and increasing the amount of funding if people want to switch boilers, didn't he? , . ~ if people want to switch boilers, didn't he? , ., ,, ., didn't he? yes, he talked about several thousand _ didn't he? yes, he talked about several thousand pounds - didn't he? yes, he talked about several thousand pounds being| several thousand pounds being available — several thousand pounds being available to _ several thousand pounds being available to encourage - several thousand pounds being available to encourage that. ii several thousand pounds being - available to encourage that. ican't available to encourage that. i can't answer— available to encourage that. i can't answer chris's _ available to encourage that. i can't answer chris's specifics _ available to encourage that. i can't answer chris's specifics as - available to encourage that. i can't answer chris's specifics as to - answer chris's specifics as to whether— answer chris's specifics as to whether how— answer chris's specifics as to whether how on _ answer chris's specifics as to whether how on earth - answer chris's specifics as to| whether how on earth people answer chris's specifics as to - whether how on earth people are supposed — whether how on earth people are supposed to— whether how on earth people are supposed to afford _ whether how on earth people are supposed to afford that. - whether how on earth people are supposed to afford that. i- whether how on earth people are supposed to afford that. i think i | supposed to afford that. i think i will defer— supposed to afford that. i think i will defer to _ supposed to afford that. i think i will defer to professor— supposed to afford that. i think i will defer to professor allen - supposed to afford that. i think i will defer to professor allen and | will defer to professor allen and joana _ will defer to professor allen and joana on — will defer to professor allen and joana on that— will defer to professor allen and joana on that to _ will defer to professor allen and joana on that to see _ will defer to professor allen and joana on that to see if— will defer to professor allen and

joana on that to see if they - will defer to professor allen and joana on that to see if they can. will defer to professor allen and . joana on that to see if they can dig in. joana on that to see if they can dig in but— joana on that to see if they can dig in but yes, — joana on that to see if they can dig in but yes, he— joana on that to see if they can dig in. but yes, he did _ joana on that to see if they can dig in. but yes, he did promise - joana on that to see if they can dig in. but yes, he did promise that. in. but yes, he did promise that very— in. but yes, he did promise that very specific— in. but yes, he did promise that very specific issue _ in. but yes, he did promise that very specific issue there - in. but yes, he did promise that very specific issue there would i in. but yes, he did promise that. very specific issue there would be considerable _ very specific issue there would be considerable help— very specific issue there would be considerable help with _ very specific issue there would be considerable help with transition i considerable help with transition boilers— considerable help with transition boilers -- — considerable help with transition boilers —— jonah. _ considerable help with transition boilers -- jonah.— boilers -- jonah. there is more money if _ boilers -- jonah. there is more money if people _ boilers -- jonah. there is more money if people want _ boilers -- jonah. there is more money if people want to - boilers -- jonah. there is more money if people want to swap i boilers -- jonah. there is more - money if people want to swap from having a gas boiler to an electric heat pump from £5,000 was how much the government would give you until today, now that will be raised up to £7,500. it will still be a pretty substantial investment notjust to get a heat pump, but also perhaps to better insulator the house and get perhaps different radiators installed. on the cost of electric cars, yes, they are expensive. now i think the hope that is being expressed is as the industry develops and as the scale increases, as perhaps the price of batteries come down in the future that electric cars themselves will not seem quite so expensive as they do now when compared to petrol and diesel cars. now when compared to petrol and diesel cars-— diesel cars. professor allen, the prime minister _ diesel cars. professor allen, the prime minister was _ diesel cars. professor allen, the prime minister was saying - diesel cars. professor allen, the prime minister was saying that i diesel cars. professor allen, the - prime minister was saying that every 60 seconds, a new electric vehicle

is registered, but they are still expensive as chris is saying. i think what this does illustrate is we do _ think what this does illustrate is we do need to have a conversation about— we do need to have a conversation about how— we do need to have a conversation about how we get to net zero and what _ about how we get to net zero and what is _ about how we get to net zero and what is becoming abundantly clear is we can't _ what is becoming abundantly clear is we can't get to net zero just on the back of— we can't get to net zero just on the back of the — we can't get to net zero just on the back of the consumer. other countries, _ back of the consumer. other countries, and this is why it is slightly— countries, and this is why it is slightly frustrating, we're not hearing — slightly frustrating, we're not hearing from the government what they are _ hearing from the government what they are going to do instead. yes, there _ they are going to do instead. yes, there is— they are going to do instead. yes, there is this — they are going to do instead. yes, there is this increase in the grant but by— there is this increase in the grant but by and — there is this increase in the grant but by and large, it isjust a shifting _ but by and large, it isjust a shifting back of the targets, rather than a _ shifting back of the targets, rather than a bringing forward of alternatives. we do need a conversation about alternatives. in the eu _ conversation about alternatives. in the eu for— conversation about alternatives. in the eu for example, they are talking about— the eu for example, they are talking about allowing people to use synthetic fuels carbon neutral fuels instead _ synthetic fuels carbon neutral fuels instead of— synthetic fuels carbon neutral fuels instead of necessarily requiring people — instead of necessarily requiring people to switch to electric, that might— people to switch to electric, that might be — people to switch to electric, that might be a cheaper option for some people _ might be a cheaper option for some people. these fuels will be more expensive — people. these fuels will be more expensive in the long—term. if the government is really committed to net zero. _ government is really committed to net zero, let's hear about these

other— net zero, let's hear about these other positive things that are going to happen, as well as the negative things— to happen, as well as the negative things we — to happen, as well as the negative things we are hearing about at the moment, — things we are hearing about at the moment, so it doesn'tjust become a bit of— moment, so it doesn'tjust become a bit of a _ moment, so it doesn'tjust become a bit of a cupboard that was a bit too difficult, _ bit of a cupboard that was a bit too difficult, let's not worry too much about _ difficult, let's not worry too much about it — difficult, let's not worry too much about it. , ., , ., about it. the question i will put to rob although _ about it. the question i will put to rob although we _ about it. the question i will put to rob although we did _ about it. the question i will put to rob although we did hear- about it. the question i will put to rob although we did hear from . about it. the question i will put to| rob although we did hear from the opposition labour party shortly. —— it doesn't become a case. michael s, in the current economic situation, this decision is very sound and should be accepted. —— michael says. he supports the changes of the prime minister and he asks if the opposition parties will reverse the decision. rob, you probably heard me speaking to shadow of secretaries —— shadow secretary of state for the environment steve reed, but why don't you answer that question? i will try to. hello, don't you answer that question? i willtry to. hello, michael. i didn't— willtry to. hello, michael. i didn't hear— willtry to. hello, michael. i didn't hear everything - willtry to. hello, michael. i didn't hear everything the l willtry to. hello, michael. i- didn't hear everything the spokesman said. essentially, _ didn't hear everything the spokesman said. essentially, i— didn't hear everything the spokesman said. essentially, i think— didn't hear everything the spokesman said. essentially, i think you - said. essentially, i think you probably— said. essentially, i think you probably will _ said. essentially, i think you probably will have _ said. essentially, i think you probably will have to - said. essentially, i think you probably will have to wait i said. essentially, i think you| probably will have to wait for labour — probably will have to wait for labour to _ probably will have to wait for labour to digest _ probably will have to wait for labour to digest everything i probably will have to wait for. labour to digest everything that rishi _ labour to digest everything that rishi sunak— labour to digest everything that rishi sunak said. _ labour to digest everything that rishi sunak said. i— labour to digest everything that rishi sunak said. i think- labour to digest everything that rishi sunak said. i think they i

labour to digest everything that . rishi sunak said. i think they have indicated — rishi sunak said. i think they have indicated they— rishi sunak said. i think they have indicated they would _ rishi sunak said. i think they have indicated they would reverse - rishi sunak said. i think they have| indicated they would reverse some rishi sunak said. i think they have i indicated they would reverse some of the changes— indicated they would reverse some of the changes he — indicated they would reverse some of the changes he has— indicated they would reverse some of the changes he has made _ indicated they would reverse some of the changes he has made to - indicated they would reverse some of the changes he has made to targets. the changes he has made to targets so i guess— the changes he has made to targets so i guess we — the changes he has made to targets so i guess we will— the changes he has made to targets so i guess we will have _ the changes he has made to targets so i guess we will have to _ the changes he has made to targets so i guess we will have to wait - the changes he has made to targets so i guess we will have to wait for. so i guess we will have to wait for exactly _ so i guess we will have to wait for exactly what _ so i guess we will have to wait for exactly what labour _ so i guess we will have to wait for exactly what labour do. _ so i guess we will have to wait for exactly what labour do. it - so i guess we will have to wait for exactly what labour do. it is- so i guess we will have to wait fori exactly what labour do. it is worth pointing _ exactly what labour do. it is worth pointing out— exactly what labour do. it is worth pointing out that _ exactly what labour do. it is worth pointing out that partly _ exactly what labour do. it is worth pointing out that partly because i pointing out that partly because labour — pointing out that partly because labour is — pointing out that partly because labour is so _ pointing out that partly because labour is so far— pointing out that partly because labour is so far ahead - pointing out that partly because labour is so far ahead in - pointing out that partly because labour is so far ahead in the - labour is so far ahead in the opinion— labour is so far ahead in the opinion polls. _ labour is so far ahead in the opinion polls, it— labour is so far ahead in the opinion polls, it is— labour is so far ahead in the opinion polls, it is steppingl labour is so far ahead in the - opinion polls, it is stepping rather cautiously— opinion polls, it is stepping rather cautiously and _ opinion polls, it is stepping rather cautiously and doesn't _ opinion polls, it is stepping rather cautiously and doesn't want - opinion polls, it is stepping rather cautiously and doesn't want to - opinion polls, it is stepping rather cautiously and doesn't want to do| cautiously and doesn't want to do anything — cautiously and doesn't want to do anything to— cautiously and doesn't want to do anything to upset _ cautiously and doesn't want to do anything to upset the _ cautiously and doesn't want to do anything to upset the apple - cautiously and doesn't want to do anything to upset the apple cart. | cautiously and doesn't want to do| anything to upset the apple cart. i 'ust anything to upset the apple cart. i just wanted — anything to upset the apple cart. i just wanted to _ anything to upset the apple cart. i just wanted to go _ anything to upset the apple cart. i just wanted to go back— anything to upset the apple cart. i just wanted to go back to - anything to upset the apple cart. i. just wanted to go back to something professor— just wanted to go back to something professor allen— just wanted to go back to something professor allen was— just wanted to go back to something professor allen was talking - just wanted to go back to something professor allen was talking about. l professor allen was talking about. about _ professor allen was talking about. about this— professor allen was talking about. about this issue _ professor allen was talking about. about this issue of _ professor allen was talking about. about this issue of who _ professor allen was talking about. about this issue of who pays - professor allen was talking about. about this issue of who pays for. about this issue of who pays for climate — about this issue of who pays for climate change _ about this issue of who pays for climate change or— about this issue of who pays for climate change or who - about this issue of who pays for climate change or who carries . about this issue of who pays for climate change or who carries itj climate change or who carries it out, _ climate change or who carries it out, who — climate change or who carries it out, who deals _ climate change or who carries it out, who deals with _ climate change or who carries it out, who deals with it. - climate change or who carries it out, who deals with it. i- climate change or who carries it out, who deals with it. i was. out, who deals with it. i was slightly— out, who deals with it. i was slightly surprised _ out, who deals with it. i was slightly surprised because i out, who deals with it. i was. slightly surprised because rishi sunak— slightly surprised because rishi sunak didn't— slightly surprised because rishi sunak didn't say _ slightly surprised because rishi sunak didn't say that _ slightly surprised because rishi sunak didn't say that his - slightly surprised because rishi sunak didn't say that his visionl slightly surprised because rishi - sunak didn't say that his vision was somehow, — sunak didn't say that his vision was somehow, i— sunak didn't say that his vision was somehow, i don't _ sunak didn't say that his vision was somehow, i don't think— sunak didn't say that his vision was somehow, i don't think the - sunak didn't say that his vision was somehow, i don't think the way- sunak didn't say that his vision was| somehow, i don't think the way you deal somehow, idon't think the way you deal with— somehow, i don't think the way you deal with climate _ somehow, i don't think the way you deal with climate changes - somehow, idon't think the way you deal with climate changes by- somehow, i don't think the way you | deal with climate changes by people changing _ deal with climate changes by people changing their— deal with climate changes by people changing their lifestyles _ deal with climate changes by people changing their lifestyles or- deal with climate changes by people changing their lifestyles or it - deal with climate changes by people changing their lifestyles or it is - changing their lifestyles or it is not actually _ changing their lifestyles or it is not actually a _ changing their lifestyles or it is not actually a consumer- changing their lifestyles or it is not actually a consumer led - changing their lifestyles or it is - not actually a consumer led process. because _ not actually a consumer led process. because that — not actually a consumer led process. because that is — not actually a consumer led process. because that is actually _ not actually a consumer led process. because that is actually what - not actually a consumer led process. because that is actually what he - because that is actually what he seems _ because that is actually what he seems to— because that is actually what he seems to be _ because that is actually what he seems to be saying, _ because that is actually what he seems to be saying, but - because that is actually what he seems to be saying, but he - because that is actually what he seems to be saying, but he had| because that is actually what he . seems to be saying, but he had not spelt— seems to be saying, but he had not spelt it _ seems to be saying, but he had not spelt it out — seems to be saying, but he had not spelt it out in — seems to be saying, but he had not spelt it out in that _ seems to be saying, but he had not spelt it out in that way— seems to be saying, but he had not spelt it out in that way that - seems to be saying, but he had not spelt it out in that way that would i spelt it out in that way that would be easier— spelt it out in that way that would be easier for— spelt it out in that way that would be easier for people _ spelt it out in that way that would be easier for people to _ spelt it out in that way that would i be easier for people to understand, so i suppose — be easier for people to understand, so i suppose i— be easier for people to understand, so i suppose i am— be easier for people to understand, so i suppose i am looking _ be easier for people to understand, so i suppose i am looking sightly. be easier for people to understand, so i suppose i am looking sightly atj so i suppose i am looking sightly at the other— so i suppose i am looking sightly at the other end — so i suppose i am looking sightly at the other end of— so i suppose i am looking sightly at the other end of the _ so i suppose i am looking sightly at the other end of the telescope - so i suppose i am looking sightly at| the other end of the telescope from what professor _ the other end of the telescope from what professor allen _ the other end of the telescope from what professor allen was _ the other end of the telescope from what professor allen was saying. ifl what professor allen was saying. if it is what professor allen was saying. if it is his _ what professor allen was saying. if it is his view— what professor allen was saying. if it is his view that _ what professor allen was saying. if it is his view that actually, - what professor allen was saying. if it is his view that actually, it - what professor allen was saying. if it is his view that actually, it is - it is his view that actually, it is not about— it is his view that actually, it is not about people _ it is his view that actually, it is not about people like - it is his view that actually, it is not about people like us - it is his view that actually, it is i not about people like us changing our lifestyles _ not about people like us changing our lifestyles or _

not about people like us changing our lifestyles or retooling - not about people like us changing our lifestyles or retooling our - our lifestyles or retooling our homes — our lifestyles or retooling our homes and _ our lifestyles or retooling our homes and cars, _ our lifestyles or retooling our homes and cars, slightly - our lifestyles or retooling our i homes and cars, slightly curious our lifestyles or retooling our - homes and cars, slightly curious as to why— homes and cars, slightly curious as to why he _ homes and cars, slightly curious as to why he didn't— homes and cars, slightly curious as to why he didn't spell— homes and cars, slightly curious as to why he didn't spell it _ homes and cars, slightly curious as to why he didn't spell it out - homes and cars, slightly curious as to why he didn't spell it out a - homes and cars, slightly curious as to why he didn't spell it out a bit i to why he didn't spell it out a bit more _ to why he didn't spell it out a bit more. , , ., ., , to why he didn't spell it out a bit more. , , �*, more. just to answer michael's ruestion more. just to answer michael's question myself, _ more. just to answer michael's question myself, i— more. just to answer michael's question myself, i would - more. just to answer michael's question myself, i would say . more. just to answer michael's - question myself, i would say having spoken just now to steve reed, we did ask him about the prime minister's decision to effectively extend the year in which the ban on new petrol and diesel vehicles would come in, that was initially set at 2030, but the prime minister says he will extend that by five years to 2035, but the labour party said it would stick to 2030, so hopefully, that answers some of your questions, michael. let's move on to a question from john, john is asking, why is this not being presented to parliament. there were concerns from the speaker of the house are lindsey hoyle today about that.— hoyle today about that. absolutely, i don't know — hoyle today about that. absolutely, i don't know whether _ hoyle today about that. absolutely, i don't know whether he _ hoyle today about that. absolutely, i don't know whether he had - hoyle today about that. absolutely, i don't know whether he had a - hoyle today about that. absolutely, i don't know whether he had a word| i don't know whether he had a word with the _ idon't know whether he had a word

with the speaker— i don't know whether he had a word with the speaker lindsey _ i don't know whether he had a word with the speaker lindsey hoyle, - i don't know whether he had a word| with the speaker lindsey hoyle, but he's certainly — with the speaker lindsey hoyle, but he's certainly not _ with the speaker lindsey hoyle, but he's certainly not happy _ with the speaker lindsey hoyle, but he's certainly not happy with - with the speaker lindsey hoyle, but he's certainly not happy with it - with the speaker lindsey hoyle, but he's certainly not happy with it and i he's certainly not happy with it and has said _ he's certainly not happy with it and has said strongly _ he's certainly not happy with it and has said strongly this _ he's certainly not happy with it and has said strongly this is— he's certainly not happy with it and has said strongly this is not- has said strongly this is not acceptable _ has said strongly this is not acceptable if— has said strongly this is not acceptable if the _ has said strongly this is not. acceptable if the government has said strongly this is not- acceptable if the government is going _ acceptable if the government is going to — acceptable if the government is going to announce _ acceptable if the government is going to announce a _ acceptable if the government is going to announce a major- acceptable if the government is. going to announce a major change acceptable if the government is- going to announce a major change in policy— going to announce a major change in policy which — going to announce a major change in policy which undoubtably, _ going to announce a major change in policy which undoubtably, this - policy which undoubtably, this appears — policy which undoubtably, this appears to— policy which undoubtably, this appears to be _ policy which undoubtably, this appears to be the _ policy which undoubtably, this appears to be the place - policy which undoubtably, this appears to be the place to - policy which undoubtably, this appears to be the place to dol policy which undoubtably, this i appears to be the place to do in parliament _ appears to be the place to do in parliament i— appears to be the place to do in parliament. i guess, _ appears to be the place to do in parliament. i guess, john, - appears to be the place to do in parliament. i guess, john, you| appears to be the place to do in i parliament. i guess, john, you just have _ parliament. i guess, john, you just have to _ parliament. i guess, john, you just have to ask— parliament. i guess, john, you just have to ask rishi _ parliament. i guess, john, you just have to ask rishi sunak— parliament. i guess, john, you just have to ask rishi sunak why - parliament. i guess, john, you just have to ask rishi sunak why he - parliament. i guess, john, you justj have to ask rishi sunak why he has done _ have to ask rishi sunak why he has done this — have to ask rishi sunak why he has done this it — have to ask rishi sunak why he has done this it is _ have to ask rishi sunak why he has done this. it is quite _ have to ask rishi sunak why he has done this. it is quite clear- have to ask rishi sunak why he has done this. it is quite clear this - done this. it is quite clear this has all— done this. it is quite clear this has all been _ done this. it is quite clear this has all been rather— done this. it is quite clear this has all been rather horrid, - done this. it is quite clear this has all been rather horrid, ini done this. it is quite clear this i has all been rather horrid, in the sense _ has all been rather horrid, in the sense that — has all been rather horrid, in the sense that the _ has all been rather horrid, in the sense that the bbc _ has all been rather horrid, in the sense that the bbc got - has all been rather horrid, in the sense that the bbc got a - has all been rather horrid, in the sense that the bbc got a leak. has all been rather horrid, in the i sense that the bbc got a leak this was coming, _ sense that the bbc got a leak this was coming, downing _ sense that the bbc got a leak this was coming, downing street - sense that the bbc got a leak this was coming, downing street got i sense that the bbc got a leak this i was coming, downing street got into a panic— was coming, downing street got into a panic and _ was coming, downing street got into a panicand had— was coming, downing street got into a panic and had to _ was coming, downing street got into a panic and had to suddenly- was coming, downing street got into a panic and had to suddenly start - a panic and had to suddenly start scrambling _ a panic and had to suddenly start scrambling so _ a panic and had to suddenly start scrambling. so i'm _ a panic and had to suddenly start scrambling. so i'm not— a panic and had to suddenly start scrambling. so i'm not sure - a panic and had to suddenly start scrambling. so i'm not sure thisi a panic and had to suddenly start. scrambling. so i'm not sure this was entirely— scrambling. so i'm not sure this was entirely how— scrambling. so i'm not sure this was entirely how things _ scrambling. so i'm not sure this was entirely how things were _ scrambling. so i'm not sure this was entirely how things were planned. . entirely how things were planned. but absolutely, _ entirely how things were planned. but absolutely, the _ entirely how things were planned. but absolutely, the speaker- entirely how things were planned. but absolutely, the speaker isn'ti but absolutely, the speaker isn't happy— but absolutely, the speaker isn't happy and — but absolutely, the speaker isn't happy and no _ but absolutely, the speaker isn't happy and no doubt, _ but absolutely, the speaker isn't happy and no doubt, many- but absolutely, the speaker isn't happy and no doubt, many mpsi but absolutely, the speaker isn't - happy and no doubt, many mps won't be very— happy and no doubt, many mps won't be very happy— happy and no doubt, many mps won't be very happy either _ happy and no doubt, many mps won't be very happy either-— be very happy either. another cuestion be very happy either. another question from _ be very happy either. another question from tom, - be very happy either. another question from tom, as - be very happy either. another question from tom, as soon | be very happy either. another. question from tom, as soon as everyone goes electric, which they eventually will, how will the government make up the massive resulting revenue shortfall? professor allen, what would you say to tom's question? i professor allen, what would you say to tom's question?— to tom's question? i think that is a really good — to tom's question? i think that is a really good question, _ to tom's question? i think that is a really good question, a _ to tom's question? i think that is a really good question, a lot - to tom's question? i think that is a really good question, a lot of - really good question, a lot of things— really good question, a lot of things have not been fully thought through _ things have not been fully thought through. in that respect, i think it

is frustrating that we are only having — is frustrating that we are only having one side of this argument. we need to— having one side of this argument. we need to have a big general discussion about how we get to net zero and _ discussion about how we get to net zero and who should pay. and at the moment, _ zero and who should pay. and at the moment, the presumption is the consumer— moment, the presumption is the consumer pays, but if you think about_ consumer pays, but if you think about it. — consumer pays, but if you think about it, who benefits from you healing — about it, who benefits from you heating your home with natural gas? you are _ heating your home with natural gas? you are paying an awful lot for that natural _ you are paying an awful lot for that natural gas — you are paying an awful lot for that natural gas at the moment. the person— natural gas at the moment. the person who benefits most is the shareholder of the company who owns the gas _ shareholder of the company who owns the gas when it comes out of the north— the gas when it comes out of the north sea — the gas when it comes out of the north sea. why are we not hearing about _ north sea. why are we not hearing about how — north sea. why are we not hearing about how they will contribute to our transition to net zero? we are only hearing — our transition to net zero? we are only hearing about things going backwards. if we are going to act less on— backwards. if we are going to act less on demand what consumers will be asked _ less on demand what consumers will be asked to — less on demand what consumers will be asked to do, we are going to have tojust _ be asked to do, we are going to have tojust by— be asked to do, we are going to have tojust by simple be asked to do, we are going to have to just by simple arithmetic act more _ to just by simple arithmetic act more on — to just by simple arithmetic act more on supply, which means we should _ more on supply, which means we should be — more on supply, which means we should be asking the fossil fuel industry— should be asking the fossil fuel industry to play a much bigger role industry to play a much bigger role in this— industry to play a much bigger role in this transition than they are being — in this transition than they are being asked to at the moment. but that will— being asked to at the moment. but that will require a government have a real— that will require a government have a real bottle and actually stand up to the _ a real bottle and actually stand up to the industry. and we haven't heard _ to the industry. and we haven't heard that _ to the industry. and we haven't heard that from any party so far.

jonah, _ heard that from any party so far. jonah, what would you say to tom? professor allen is touching on a real elite fundamental question in terms of tackling climate change, the role of us as individuals, how much we can do in terms of changing the way we live our lives and how much of it has to come from government in terms of putting out the framework, the systems in place to really guide human behaviour. from listening to rishi sunak today, it really felt like he was putting the emphasis very much back on us to make the decisions. he would give us the choices, we would have it laid out in front of us, but we would not be forced one way or the other. there is another way to look at it and there are other countries perhaps going further down that path, there needs to be a much more proactive role of government in terms of pushing people down certain patterns to make the decision which is actually going to give us a chance of reaching net zero by 2050. —— certain patterns. abs, chance of reaching net zero by 2050. -- certain patterns.— -- certain patterns. a question from trace . is -- certain patterns. a question from tracey- is this _ -- certain patterns. a question from tracey. is this a _ -- certain patterns. a question from tracey. is this a political— -- certain patterns. a question from

tracey. is this a political or - tracey. is this a political or economic decision or a personal act of revenge by rishi sunak against borisjohnson? rob, iwill ask of revenge by rishi sunak against borisjohnson? rob, i will ask you to answer that one. it boris johnson? rob, i will ask you to answer that one.— to answer that one. it does seem rather obvious _ to answer that one. it does seem rather obvious for _ to answer that one. it does seem rather obvious for me, _ to answer that one. it does seem rather obvious for me, good - rather obvious for me, good question. _ rather obvious for me, good question, tracey. _ rather obvious for me, good question, tracey. in- rather obvious for me, good question, tracey. in many. rather obvious for me, good - question, tracey. in many ways, rishi — question, tracey. in many ways, rishi sunal— question, tracey. in many ways, rishi sunak was _ question, tracey. in many ways, rishi sunak was asked _ question, tracey. in many ways, rishi sunak was asked that - question, tracey. in many ways, rishi sunak was asked that in i rishi sunak was asked that in several— rishi sunak was asked that in several different— rishi sunak was asked that in several different guises - rishi sunak was asked that in several different guises by. rishi sunak was asked that in| several different guises by my colleagues _ several different guises by my colleagues at _ several different guises by my colleagues at the _ several different guises by my colleagues at the speech - several different guises by my colleagues at the speech in i several different guises by my - colleagues at the speech in downing street _ colleagues at the speech in downing street well, — colleagues at the speech in downing street well, of— colleagues at the speech in downing street. well, of course _ colleagues at the speech in downing street. well, of course he _ colleagues at the speech in downing street. well, of course he said - colleagues at the speech in downing street. well, of course he said it - street. well, of course he said it wasn't _ street. well, of course he said it wasn't political— street. well, of course he said it wasn't political or— street. well, of course he said it wasn't political or an _ street. well, of course he said it wasn't political or an attack - street. well, of course he said it wasn't political or an attack on . wasn't political or an attack on boris — wasn't political or an attack on borisjohnson. _ wasn't political or an attack on borisjohnson, but _ wasn't political or an attack on borisjohnson, but it— wasn't political or an attack on borisjohnson, but it is- wasn't political or an attack on borisjohnson, but it is hard i wasn't political or an attack on i borisjohnson, but it is hard not wasn't political or an attack on - borisjohnson, but it is hard not to read _ borisjohnson, but it is hard not to read him _ borisjohnson, but it is hard not to read him saying _ borisjohnson, but it is hard not to read him saying that _ borisjohnson, but it is hard not to read him saying that previous- read him saying that previous leaders — read him saying that previous leaders had _ read him saying that previous leaders had not _ read him saying that previous leaders had not levelled - read him saying that previous leaders had not levelled with| read him saying that previous- leaders had not levelled with people as to what _ leaders had not levelled with people as to what these _ leaders had not levelled with people as to what these targets _ leaders had not levelled with people as to what these targets might - leaders had not levelled with people| as to what these targets might mean for them _ as to what these targets might mean for them as— as to what these targets might mean for them as anything _ as to what these targets might mean for them as anything but _ as to what these targets might mean for them as anything but an - as to what these targets might mean for them as anything but an attack i for them as anything but an attack on boris _ for them as anything but an attack on borisjohnson. _ for them as anything but an attack on borisjohnson. as— for them as anything but an attack on boris johnson. as to _ for them as anything but an attack on boris johnson. as to whether. for them as anything but an attack . on boris johnson. as to whether this is about— on boris johnson. as to whether this is about economics, _ on boris johnson. as to whether this is about economics, i— on boris johnson. as to whether this is about economics, i mean, - on boris johnson. as to whether this is about economics, i mean, i- on boris johnson. as to whether this is about economics, i mean, i thinki is about economics, i mean, i think n1any_ is about economics, i mean, i think many people — is about economics, i mean, i think many people think _ is about economics, i mean, i think many people think that _ is about economics, i mean, i think many people think that when - is about economics, i mean, i think many people think that when it - is about economics, i mean, i think. many people think that when it comes to the _ many people think that when it comes to the issue _ many people think that when it comes to the issue of— many people think that when it comes to the issue of climate _ many people think that when it comes to the issue of climate change, - many people think that when it comes to the issue of climate change, it- to the issue of climate change, it is not _ to the issue of climate change, it is not a _ to the issue of climate change, it is not a great _ to the issue of climate change, it is not a great passion _ to the issue of climate change, it is not a great passion for- to the issue of climate change, it is not a great passion for rishi i is not a great passion for rishi sunak— is not a great passion for rishi sunak and _ is not a great passion for rishi sunak and he _ is not a great passion for rishi sunak and he genuinely- is not a great passion for rishi. sunak and he genuinely doesn't is not a great passion for rishi - sunak and he genuinely doesn't think that these _ sunak and he genuinely doesn't think that these changes _ sunak and he genuinely doesn't think that these changes should _ sunak and he genuinely doesn't think that these changes should be - sunak and he genuinely doesn't think that these changes should be made l sunak and he genuinely doesn't thinki that these changes should be made as previous— that these changes should be made as previous leaks — that these changes should be made as previous leaks set _ that these changes should be made as previous leaks set out. _

that these changes should be made as previous leaks set out. but _ that these changes should be made as previous leaks set out. but clearly, . previous leaks set out. but clearly, there _ previous leaks set out. but clearly, there is _ previous leaks set out. but clearly, there is a _ previous leaks set out. but clearly, there is a huge _ previous leaks set out. but clearly, there is a huge amount _ previous leaks set out. but clearly, there is a huge amount of- previous leaks set out. but clearly, there is a huge amount of politics i there is a huge amount of politics in this _ there is a huge amount of politics in this there _ there is a huge amount of politics in this. there is— there is a huge amount of politics in this. there is a _ there is a huge amount of politics in this. there is a view— there is a huge amount of politics in this. there is a view here - there is a huge amount of politics in this. there is a view here at. in this. there is a view here at westminster, _ in this. there is a view here at westminster, call— in this. there is a view here at westminster, call it _ in this. there is a view here at westminster, call it cynical, . in this. there is a view here at. westminster, call it cynical, that he is _ westminster, call it cynical, that he is really— westminster, call it cynical, that he is really responding _ westminster, call it cynical, that he is really responding in- westminster, call it cynical, that he is really responding in part i westminster, call it cynical, that he is really responding in part to| he is really responding in part to the fact— he is really responding in part to the fact that _ he is really responding in part to the fact that the _ he is really responding in part to the fact that the conservatives l he is really responding in part to. the fact that the conservatives are a long _ the fact that the conservatives are a long way — the fact that the conservatives are a long way behind _ the fact that the conservatives are a long way behind in— the fact that the conservatives are a long way behind in the _ the fact that the conservatives are a long way behind in the opinion . a long way behind in the opinion polls— a long way behind in the opinion polls and — a long way behind in the opinion polls and that _ a long way behind in the opinion polls and that they— a long way behind in the opinion polls and that they draw- a long way behind in the opinion polls and that they draw some l polls and that they draw some encouragement _ polls and that they draw some encouragement from - polls and that they draw some encouragement from a - polls and that they draw some - encouragement from a by—election a short— encouragement from a by—election a short while _ encouragement from a by—election a short while ago — encouragement from a by—election a short while ago in _ encouragement from a by—election a short while ago in west _ encouragement from a by—election a short while ago in west london - encouragement from a by—election a i short while ago in west london where the conservatives— short while ago in west london where the conservatives held _ short while ago in west london where the conservatives held on _ short while ago in west london where the conservatives held on to- short while ago in west london where the conservatives held on to a - short while ago in west london where the conservatives held on to a seat, l the conservatives held on to a seat, in part— the conservatives held onto a seat, in part by— the conservatives held on to a seat, in part by opposing _ the conservatives held on to a seat, in part by opposing a _ the conservatives held on to a seat, in part by opposing a measure - the conservatives held on to a seat, in part by opposing a measure thati in part by opposing a measure that you might — in part by opposing a measure that you might call— in part by opposing a measure that you might call a _ in part by opposing a measure that you might call a green _ in part by opposing a measure that you might call a green measure . in part by opposing a measure thatl you might call a green measure and that the _ you might calla green measure and that the view— you might call a green measure and that the view in _ you might call a green measure and that the view in downing _ you might call a green measure and that the view in downing street - you might call a green measure and that the view in downing street is. that the view in downing street is maybe _ that the view in downing street is maybe this — that the view in downing street is maybe this is _ that the view in downing street is maybe this is one _ that the view in downing street is maybe this is one of— that the view in downing street is maybe this is one of those - that the view in downing street is| maybe this is one of those dividing lines _ maybe this is one of those dividing lines which — maybe this is one of those dividing lines which would _ maybe this is one of those dividing lines which would work _ maybe this is one of those dividing lines which would work in - maybe this is one of those dividing lines which would work in politics. | lines which would work in politics. where _ lines which would work in politics. where you — lines which would work in politics. where you say, _ lines which would work in politics. where you say, right, _ lines which would work in politics. where you say, right, climate - where you say, right, climate change. — where you say, right, climate change. on _ where you say, right, climate change, on the _ where you say, right, climate change, on the one _ where you say, right, climate change, on the one hand, - where you say, right, climate l change, on the one hand, there where you say, right, climate - change, on the one hand, there is us, pragmatic, _ change, on the one hand, there is us, pragmatic, sensible, - change, on the one hand, there is. us, pragmatic, sensible, reasonable, realistio _ us, pragmatic, sensible, reasonable, realistio 0n— us, pragmatic, sensible, reasonable, realistic. 0n the _ us, pragmatic, sensible, reasonable, realistic. 0n the other— us, pragmatic, sensible, reasonable, realistic. 0n the other hand, - us, pragmatic, sensible, reasonable, realistic. 0n the other hand, a - realistic. 0n the other hand, a bunch — realistic. 0n the other hand, a bunch of— realistic. 0n the other hand, a bunch of zealots. _ realistic. 0n the other hand, a bunch of zealots. so _ realistic. 0n the other hand, a bunch of zealots. so clearly, l realistic. 0n the other hand, a - bunch of zealots. so clearly, there is politics — bunch of zealots. so clearly, there is politics involved, _ bunch of zealots. so clearly, there is politics involved, there - bunch of zealots. so clearly, there is politics involved, there is- bunch of zealots. so clearly, there is politics involved, there is no- is politics involved, there is no doubt — is politics involved, there is no doubt about— is politics involved, there is no doubt about that. _ is politics involved, there is no doubt about that. we - is politics involved, there is no doubt about that.— is politics involved, there is no doubt about that. ~ . ., ., doubt about that. we have run out of time, unfortunately. _ doubt about that. we have run out of time, unfortunately. but— doubt about that. we have run out of time, unfortunately. but i _ doubt about that. we have run out of time, unfortunately. but i must- time, unfortunately. but i must thank you all. jonah fisher, professor allen and rob watson. and thanks to all of you, jacob, chris,

michael, tracey, tom and mark and andrew, we did not get your questions, unfortunately. thank you all of you for sending your questions in. this of course is bbc news, do stay with us throughout the evening, there's plenty more on the prime minister's announcement on the bbc website. hello there. despite some heat early on in the month, it's been pretty wet and windyjust recently and the rivers are now starting to look pretty ferocious. in fact, capel curig has seen a significant amount of rainfall in the last few days. just take a look at this. this is our september rainfall total so far. 226 millimetres, and i suspect we could be threatening the record before this month is through, with 366. shap, as well, seeing 202 millimetres of rainfall in the last few days. now, this was the story earlier on today, as we've seen this weather

front sweeping its way steadily south and east, bringing some heavier pulses of rain at times. that still has to clear away, but centred close to this area of low pressure, we keep some showers in the far north—west. clearer skies elsewhere. it is going to be a chilly start to our thursday morning, with single figures for many. but as we go through the morning, there will be some sunshine around as well. so early—morning rain in the south—east clears away. sunny spells elsewhere and scattered showers developing from the west. closest to this low pressure, we see a frequent rash of showers, and gales still likely here. some of the showers across england and wales could be heavy, with rumbles of thunder, and they'll develop and push further inland as we go through the afternoon, with highs of 13 to 19 degrees. if we move out of thursday, we're still likely to see more showers around on friday. and the wind direction swings to more of a north—westerly, as the low slowly drifts its way steadily eastwards.

so a cooler feel on exposed coasts, plenty of showers, particularly out towards the west to begin with. some of those will filter a little further inland, but there's potential for less thunder and lightning across england and wales as we go through friday. again, highs between 12 and 18 celsius. into the start of the weekend, a brief ridge of high pressure builds and is likely to quieten things down for the beginning of the weekend, in any case. but waiting out in the wings is another area of low pressure, which is going to push its way steadily eastwards. it means a relatively dry and sunny start to the weekend. there is a potential we'll keep the sunshine in the south. wet and windier conditions dominate, really, from sunday onwards, once again.

at six — a ban on the sale of petrol and diesel cars in the uk is being delayed until 2035 as the prime minister says he is softening his approach to green policies. rishi sunak says a change of direction is needed on tackling climate change, with the current approach imposing unacceptable costs on british families. i am interested in the right long—term thing for the country and actually bringing people along with me and minimising those costs on families and that is why i think what we are announcing today, it is a break from the past, it is a change, it is a different way to approach these decisions.

this was rishi sunakjunking plenty of what _ this was rishi sunakjunking plenty of what borisjohnson this was rishi sunakjunking plenty of what boris johnson and others used _ of what boris johnson and others used to— of what boris johnson and others used to talk up and also sketching out a _ used to talk up and also sketching out a case — used to talk up and also sketching out a case for why he thinks he deserves— out a case for why he thinks he deserves to win the election. and the other big story today, a surprise fall in inflation. prices are still rising, but not as fast. we're guaging reaction in devon. after food prices slow. we will be asking what it means for tomorrow's interest rate decision. will they rise again? i've been talking to the marine biologists here in plymouth leading research into the surprising link between cars and plastic pollution in the sea. rolling out the red carpet in paris as the king and queen begin their three—day state visit to france. and in london, a significant and serious development, say the met. an officer is to be charged with the murder of chris kaba, shot dead in south london a year ago.

harry a year ago. kane