the moray even reach 20 here around the moray firth. gale is blowing for this second part of their weekend out towards the west. here is the outlook for the next few days. temperatures will remain elevated into the low 20s but be warned, at some point in the week ahead, it could actually turn very blustery, with all that action happening in the atlantic, the tail end hurricane is coming our way. back to you. thank you very much. and that's bbc news at ten. there's more analysis of the day's main stories on newsnight with mark urban, which isjust getting under way on bbc two. the news continues here on bbc one, as now it's time to join our colleagues across the nations and regions for the news where you are, but from the ten team, it's goodnight.

tonight we're on the front line of fortress europe. tonight, we have a special report from the tiny mediterranean island of lampedusa. it's become a migration flashpoint as thousands of people arrive and italy tries to stop them. translation: | told the un, - it's unthinkable for us to replicate what happened in america all those years ago by turning lampedusa — or anywhere else for that matter — into a new ellis island. we'll be discussing whether a new eu approach is urgently needed with a member of italy's governing party, a senior european

parliamentarian and a veteran correspondent. also tonight... we have new allegations about russell brand's treatment of women from a fellow comedian who worked with him for two years. if you could speak to any of these women who have made these allegations, what would you say to them? it would be difficult to speak to them without wanting to cry, quite frankly. i don't know, really. i can't apologise for them because i didn't perform any of the behaviour. i think everyone feels for them. and comedian meryl o'rourke will be telling us about the culture of the comedy circuit. good evening. the mediterranean is once again a hotspot for illegal crossings and people smugglers. the focus is on lampedusa, an island that belongs to italy but is closer to north africa. thousands have been arriving there in small boats — often at risk of drowning.

giorgia meloni, italy's right—wing prime minister, has described the activities of people smugglers as akin to a war, and demanded the european union support. the situation risks "dissolving the eu" according to the union's foreign policy chief. newsnight�*s emir nader is on lampedusa. give us a sense of the scale of the crisis. yes, well it's now nearly a decade since the 2013 lampedusa tragedy when 368 people drowned off the island and since then we've seen this central mediterranean route becoming the most dangerous migration route in the world. we here trying to speak to migrants. authorities have tried to stop us but we've had a few good conversations and it's quite

incredible, meeting people from way out in south asian countries like pakistan and bangladesh, all the way through to west african countries, people arriving here. and while in the eu overall the numbers of migrant arrivals are down from the peak of 2015 it has been something of a bottleneck because of changing roots and this tiny island is set to see record numbers this year. there's only a few thousand people there, how are they coping with this? ~ , ., ., this? well, yeah, given when, on the media reporting _ this? well, yeah, given when, on the media reporting we _ this? well, yeah, given when, on the media reporting we saw— this? well, yeah, given when, on the media reporting we saw before - this? well, yeah, given when, on the media reporting we saw before we i media reporting we saw before we arrived, i think expected an island in distress, kind of chaotic scenes but i think where is in the last couple of weeks we've seen may be 10,000 people arrived there has been a quick turnover of people. in the last 2a hours we've seen about 500

people leaving the island and now the numbers are down to about 300. walking through the town, life goes on. the italian summer is still in full swing. in fact, on. the italian summer is still in full swing. infact, no on. the italian summer is still in full swing. in fact, no locals... the aggressive language we've seen from italian political leaders, it is quite the opposite. the frustration of locals here is with political leaders because they know that a wider solution is needed to take the pressure off the island. it shows you that this is all in the management, the processing and distribution of people throughout italy and the rest of europe. these are obviously big political decisions to be made elsewhere. we've been here two or three days and now you can see our special report. is this little island in the mediterranean sea where the european union falls apart? so warned italy's political leaders.

closer to north africa than the mainland, lampedusa is just seven miles long. a tourist idyll, and the key gateway for would—be migrants who seek europe. nearly 130,000 have arrived to italy so far this year, double last yea r�*s number. at the port, we catch a ferry about to depart. repurposed to transfer migrants, it's been taking hundreds of people off the island the past days. 370 today, their boats loaded with them. so, those guys there are egyptian lads from alexandria, in the north of egypt. they've been on the boat for 25 hours. they arrived yesterday. they set off through the night. now they're going on this big commercial liner, which is taking them off lampedusa and they'll next

go to onwards to sicily, before being distributed throughout italy. last week, lampedusa was overwhelmed with arrivals. residents distributed food and water. 0thers protested that they're out of patience. in three days, 8,000 people arrived around the clock, more than the population of the island, and 20 times the capacity of the migrant centre. we take a trip to see it. we're the first international journalists to be let inside. it's managed by the red cross and police have been drafted in from across italy. we're told people are free to leave, but we don't see anyone do so. it feels like they've tidied up the place and thrown us a party. we try to speak to some of the migrants, but each time we're stopped from doing so and they won't explain why.

0utside, wejoin a briefing being held by the red cross. what's the red cross's message to politicians, to the eu? what are you calling for? well, we are not making making policy during these days. it's not the job of the red cross. what we we're doing here is to support people in need and to go beyond the numbers and considering each of them as a human being that needs help. but it's over capacity. so, you need more help. the capacity of the centre is not the matter. the real... the real mechanism that must work is this fact of the transfer very quickly. through the fence, we managed to speak with ahmed from egypt. he's waiting to be transferred. how long did he spend on the boat? three days. was it difficult? yeah. hard? yes. why? it was hard because, you know, it was just hard.

we're interrupted by two soldiers who ahmed is quick to reassure. he's asking me how things are and i'm telling him everything's fine and we're being provided for and so on. i asked to talk with others, but ahmed tells me they're too scared to speak. this tiny camp, no longer than 200 metres, has been thrust into the international political arena. after last week's surge, italy's georgia meloni visited the island with eu chief ursula von der leyen, announcing a ten—point plan, firm in language but light on detail. meloni's government called the arrivals an invasion and an act of war. fiery language, but it seems to have brought attention and more resources. meanwhile, the eu is preparing to transfer one billion euros to nearby autocratic tunisia, to bolster its economy and stop boats leaving. cracks, however, have been exposed in european cooperation. the french government has now said it will refuse to take arrivals from lampedusa.

back in town, locals are celebrating the annual festival for the island's patron saint, madonna di porto salvo, mary, protector of seafarers. here we find the island's mayor, freshly returned from calling for aid at the united nations in new york. translation: the islanders have been living with this _ phenomenon for 30 years, now. but to outsiders there is a perception that there is complete chaos here, islands in collapse, islands under attack. this is not the case. i'm not the one who can decide a solution because i'm just the mayor of a small island. but we have to choose whether to treat people the same or not. whether they are ukrainians fleeing war, or africans fleeing war and persecution. do we treat them all the same or do we treat them according to the colour

of their skin? pulled between international forces so much greater than its size, what happens in lampedusa will be determined by powerbrokers elsewhere. this doesn't feel like an island in crisis, or doomed to it. its people don't use the language of violence, like italy's political leaders. but they petition to confront the challenge, to find humane solutions so that locals who would offer seafarers protection aren't cast adrift. let's discuss whether there's a more effective and humane way of dealing with this with giangiacomo calovini, an mp with giorgia meloni's brothers of italy party who sits on the foreign affairs commitee. juan fernando lopez aguilar, former spanishjustice minister, now serving as a member of the european parliament, chairing the civil liberties and home affairs commitee. and with us in the studio

is annette dittert, london correspondent for the german broadcaster ard. welcome to you all. i don't know whether you could hear the report, but he spoke about a feeling among people including islanders that the political leadership of italy was using inflammatory language, talking about a war on the people smugglers if there wasn't a change of policy that could become an invasion. do you think the language is justified? good evening, i think so because, like you said in the video before, the situation in lampedusa is particularly difficult at the moment because we must remember that the situation has lasted for many years and not only in this period. like you said before, lampedusa is a small island. more or less 5000 people with some tourists and now it

receives 5000 migrants every two or three days so it's impossible for the island and for the people, however there is a strong emergency and the structures are no longer able to accommodate the african migrants. because of that we are going to ask in europe, to brussels, to the institutions that we need more support and more help because we are not able to help all these people from the north of africa. that's because we are going to ask something from brussels first. thank ou. something from brussels first. thank yom annette. _ something from brussels first. thank yom annette. we _ something from brussels first. thank you. annette, we saw— something from brussels first. thank you. annette, we saw ursula - something from brussels first. thank you. annette, we saw ursula von - something from brussels first. thank you. annette, we saw ursula von der leyen visiting the island. does she have answers, does the eu have answers to the crisis? ida. have answers, does the eu have answers to the crisis? no, that's the biggest _ answers to the crisis? no, that's the biggest problem _ answers to the crisis? no, that's the biggest problem at - answers to the crisis? no, that's the biggest problem at the - answers to the crisis? no, that's - the biggest problem at the moment, despite _ the biggest problem at the moment, despite the 27 eu countries have eight _ despite the 27 eu countries have eight shared border this problem has

existed _ eight shared border this problem has existed for— eight shared border this problem has existed for years and there is no joint _ existed for years and there is no joint policy. ursula von der leyen, when _ joint policy. ursula von der leyen, when she — joint policy. ursula von der leyen, when she went to lampedusa, it was symbolic— when she went to lampedusa, it was symbolic but welcomed by the italian government but all she did, the ten points— government but all she did, the ten points she — government but all she did, the ten points she announced, it is so vague and so _ points she announced, it is so vague and so unclear and also she does need _ and so unclear and also she does need the — and so unclear and also she does need the support of the 27 states. she needs — need the support of the 27 states. she needs the european parliament and there _ she needs the european parliament and there is no unity and that's the problem _ and there is no unity and that's the problem for— and there is no unity and that's the problem for her as well.— problem for her as well. right, well, talking — problem for her as well. right, well, talking of _ problem for her as well. right, well, talking of the _ problem for her as well. right, well, talking of the european i well, talking of the european parliament, let's bring in our next guest because you chair the civil liberties and home affairs committee and i know you've looked at immigration reform for many years. how would you fix this situation?

regulations that are binding for the member_ regulations that are binding for the member states _ regulations that are binding for the member states. we _ regulations that are binding for the member states. we need _ regulations that are binding for the member states. we need to - regulations that are binding for the member states. we need to strikel regulations that are binding for the i member states. we need to strike the film member states. we need to strike the right balance — member states. we need to strike the right balance between _ member states. we need to strike the right balance between responsibility. right balance between responsibility and solidarity — right balance between responsibility and solidarity and _ right balance between responsibility and solidarity and that _ right balance between responsibility and solidarity and that is _ right balance between responsibility and solidarity and that is precisely. and solidarity and that is precisely the mandate _ and solidarity and that is precisely the mandate. the _ and solidarity and that is precisely the mandate. the whole - and solidarity and that is preciselyj the mandate. the whole european system _ the mandate. the whole european system has — the mandate. the whole european system has to— the mandate. the whole european system has to be _ the mandate. the whole european system has to be based _ the mandate. the whole european system has to be based on- the mandate. the whole european system has to be based on shared| system has to be based on shared responsibility— system has to be based on shared responsibility and _ system has to be based on shared responsibility and binding - responsibility and binding solidarity— responsibility and binding solidarity when _ responsibility and binding solidarity when needed i responsibility and binding i solidarity when needed and responsibility and binding - solidarity when needed and that is the aim _ solidarity when needed and that is the aim of— solidarity when needed and that is the aim ofthe— solidarity when needed and that is the aim of the european— solidarity when needed and that is l the aim of the european parliament, that is— the aim of the european parliament, that is our— the aim of the european parliament, that is our mandate _ the aim of the european parliament, that is our mandate for _ that is our mandate for negotiations, - that is our mandate for negotiations, that - that is our mandate for negotiations, that is i that is our mandate for. negotiations, that is what that is our mandate for - negotiations, that is what we that is our mandate for _ negotiations, that is what we had in april and _ negotiations, that is what we had in april and we — negotiations, that is what we had in april and we are _ negotiations, that is what we had in april and we are negotiating - negotiations, that is what we had in april and we are negotiating with i april and we are negotiating with the council— april and we are negotiating with the council that— april and we are negotiating with the council that resists _ april and we are negotiating with| the council that resists solidarity. solidarity — the council that resists solidarity. solidarity is — the council that resists solidarity. solidarity is part _ the council that resists solidarity. solidarity is part of— the council that resists solidarity. solidarity is part of the _ the council that resists solidarity. solidarity is part of the package. i solidarity is part of the package. there _ solidarity is part of the package. there has— solidarity is part of the package. there has to _ solidarity is part of the package. there has to be _ solidarity is part of the package. there has to be binding - solidarity is part of the package. i there has to be binding solidarity, particularly — there has to be binding solidarity, particularly by _ there has to be binding solidarity, particularly by member— there has to be binding solidarity, particularly by member states - there has to be binding solidarity, | particularly by member states who cannot— particularly by member states who cannot be — particularly by member states who cannot be overwhelmed _ particularly by member states who cannot be overwhelmed by- particularly by member states who cannot be overwhelmed by the - particularly by member states who i cannot be overwhelmed by the strict application _ cannot be overwhelmed by the strict application of — cannot be overwhelmed by the strict application of the _ cannot be overwhelmed by the strict application of the regulation. - cannot be overwhelmed by the strict application of the regulation. whichl

application of the regulation. which means— application of the regulation. which means the — application of the regulation. which means the country— application of the regulation. which means the country of— application of the regulation. which means the country of first - application of the regulation. which means the country of first entry- application of the regulation. which means the country of first entry is i means the country of first entry is the one _ means the country of first entry is the one responsible. _ means the country of first entry is the one responsible. not- means the country of first entry is the one responsible. not only. means the country of first entry is the one responsible. not only forl the one responsible. not only for saving _ the one responsible. not only for saving lives — the one responsible. not only for saving lives and _ the one responsible. not only for saving lives and asylum - the one responsible. not only for saving lives and asylum status i the one responsible. not only forl saving lives and asylum status but for all _ saving lives and asylum status but for all of _ saving lives and asylum status but for all of the — saving lives and asylum status but for all of the services _ saving lives and asylum status but for all of the services which - saving lives and asylum status but for all of the services which are i for all of the services which are entailed — for all of the services which are entailed international- for all of the services which are i entailed international protection. lampedusa — entailed international protection. lampedusa cannot— entailed international protection. lampedusa cannot be _ entailed international protection. lampedusa cannot be left- entailed international protection. lampedusa cannot be left on- entailed international protection. i lampedusa cannot be left on their own _ lampedusa cannot be left on their own it _ lampedusa cannot be left on their own it takes _ lampedusa cannot be left on their own. it takes european _ lampedusa cannot be left on their own. it takes european response i lampedusa cannot be left on their. own. it takes european response and there _ own. it takes european response and there has— own. it takes european response and there has be — own. it takes european response and there has be solidarity. _ own. it takes european response and there has be solidarity. let— own. it takes european response and there has be solidarity.— there has be solidarity. let us go back to giangiacomo _ there has be solidarity. let us go back to giangiacomo calovini - back to giangiacomo calovini because we heard the word solidarity several times and i remember hearing that during the migration process. it is aware that often gets used that really means, could you please take more of our emigrants or could you take what we think is your fair share? does at least feel there is solidarity in that sense from other eu countries?— solidarity in that sense from other eu countries? ., . ., ~ eu countries? no. we are thinking in the sirit eu countries? no. we are thinking in the spirit that — eu countries? no. we are thinking in the spirit that there _ eu countries? no. we are thinking in the spirit that there is _ eu countries? no. we are thinking in the spirit that there is not _ the spirit that there is not

solidarity from brussels. that is because — solidarity from brussels. that is because we are asking for help. but first of— because we are asking for help. but first of all. — because we are asking for help. but first of all, we have to remember that no— first of all, we have to remember that no one — first of all, we have to remember that no one disputes that what is happening in the mediterranean as a human— happening in the mediterranean as a human emergency in which too many people. _ human emergency in which too many people, children and women, have lost their— people, children and women, have lost their lives. something that is unacceptable for us and at the same time we _ unacceptable for us and at the same time we cannot deny that europe has not been _ time we cannot deny that europe has not been able to deal with this tragedv — not been able to deal with this tragedy. that is because we are going _ tragedy. that is because we are going to — tragedy. that is because we are going to have to ask the institutions in brussels to find a solution — institutions in brussels to find a solution by defending the borders of lip through the presence of ships in the mediterranean sea. that. the departure — the mediterranean sea. that. the departure of these boats and we have to remember that the earn money with these _ to remember that the earn money with these people. this is our challenge because _ these people. this is our challenge because we have to stop these boats from north— because we have to stop these boats from north africa to europe, this is what _ from north africa to europe, this is what we _ from north africa to europe, this is what we have to do. back

from north africa to europe, this is what we have to do.— from north africa to europe, this is what we have to do. back in 2016, it was germany _ what we have to do. back in 2016, it was germany that _ what we have to do. back in 2016, it was germany that wanted _ what we have to do. back in 2016, it was germany that wanted solidarity| was germany that wanted solidarity and others, there were over a million people arriving two given what you have seen and the way that we have heard the debate has gone awry and underwrite in the european parliament between member states, do you think there is a danger of a radicalising effect in politics? that a populist response, clearly the italian government is partly a response to a populist response, do you feel that in germany also? it does not help when the italian government talks of a war and stokes a populist fear even more, that is not a good idea and if you look at the numbers, the pictures in italy are putting huge pressure on the government and italy needs help but if you look at the numbers, italy is processing far less asylum applications than germany and if you talk about solidarity, germany would have to send some asylum—seekers back to italy, actually. it is more

of a transit country. the biggest burden is that germany has been taken over by germany and that is also coming into a problematic phase. also coming into a problematic hase. ~ ., ., also coming into a problematic hase. ~' ., ., also coming into a problematicl phase-_ not also coming into a problematic hase. ~ ., ., not onl , phase. ukrainian refugees? not only, german is phase. ukrainian refugees? not only, germany is processing _ phase. ukrainian refugees? not only, germany is processing 200,000 - phase. ukrainian refugees? not only, i germany is processing 200,000 asylum applications plus having more than a million ukrainian refugees, plus the 1 million syrians from 2015. in the federal states we have to solve these problems are at the end of their capacity. and at the end of their capacity. and at the end of their resources as well.— their resources as well. let's go back because — their resources as well. let's go back because i _ their resources as well. let's go back because i want _ their resources as well. let's go back because i want to - their resources as well. let's go back because i want to bring - their resources as well. let's go back because i want to bring in l back because i want to bring in again. clearly the existing policy is to try to support north african countries like libya and tunisia, we heard another 124 million euros tunisia being announced today. today more enforcement and disruption efforts against the

people—smugglers. does that work? for years the european parliament has made it part of the job, for years the european parliament has made it part of thejob, but for years the european parliament has made it part of the job, but the external dimension, by adopting all the financial support that takes a huge effort in humanitarian aid and co—operation for development, so that makes sense and the countries of origin but we have to make sense but you can place in europe and a change of look as to migration itself, it is a fact. we have put in place legislation, balanced legislation, so that we can bring solidarity and not overwhelm the countries of first entry and then to make the guarantees and the procedures that are fully implemented by all of the member states. not others. and with that in

place, the problems you see with the external borders have been completely overwhelmed by a massive influx of irregular migrants. many of them may be asylum—seekers but they are human beings. being rescued in the seas. there has to be some sense, some common sense. i am sick and tired of saying... people blaming each other. llllul’ith and tired of saying... people blaming each other. and tired of saying... people blamin: each other. ~ ., ., , , ., blaming each other. with that appeal for common-sense. .. _ blaming each other. with that appeal for common-sense. .. juan _ blaming each other. with that appeal for common-sense. .. juan fernando | for common—sense. .. juan fernando lopez aguilar for common—sense... juan fernando lopez aguilar i am sorry to jump for common—sense... juan fernando lopez aguilar i am sorry tojump in but we are out of time. and indeed, giangiacomo calovini. well... tonight russell brand has posted on social media, thanking his supporters and describing the week since news reports of allegations of sexual assault against him as "extraordinary and distressing".

since the allegations of rape and sexual assualt by mr brand were published by the sunday times and channel 4's dispatches last weekend — claims that he denies — more women have come forward with allegations about the comedian's behaviour. tonight on newsnight, we hear from someone whose comedy career started alongside brand's. he tells us that the former actor had a reputation for "getting angry" at women who wouldn't sleep with him. cole parker has been speaking to sima. i first started working with russell in about 1999. that was the same year i got signed to my first comedy agent, and then i was in the hackney empire new act final in 2000 with russell, and that was the night i think my agent signed him. how would you describe russell brand? he was fascinating to watch on stage. absolutely fascinating. quite challenging to work with. you know, you never knew what you were going to get. i'd bring russell on stage

and i'd go off to the bar or to the bathroom or something, and then i'd come out and russell might have left the stage after only a couple of minutes. he might have exposed himself or let off a fire extinguisher or screamed or done something avant garde and then left the stage, and i'd have to go back on and mop it up. what raised alarm bells for you in regards to his alleged treatment of women? russell's name was synonymous in the modelling industry in london from the early to late 2000, and a lot of the modeling agents would sit down and tell their models, tell their stable, you know, warn them about him. things like, you know, people would go back to his house and they'd fooled around and then if they didn't want to go all the way, he had a reputation for sometimes getting angry or a bit nasty if people wouldn't sleep with him the first time. and given the fact that he was, you know, a celebrity, a very good looking man, very funny, he didn't really need to sort of operate that way. there would have been plenty of people who'd have been happy to get themselves involved in a dalliance with him.

he didn't have to go with people who were reluctant to do so. later on, when i moved out to los angeles, where i live now, and russell was out here at the same time, i had a girlfriend and she knew another girl that russell was pursuing, shall we say. she did not want anything to do with russell. she was scared of him. she didn't go into any further details. but, you know, given the age difference and russell's reputation, we kind of, you know, sort of understood why that fear might have manifested. it sounds like you have an idea in your mind as to what russell brand is like. well, here's the saddest thing about when it all broke... everyone on the comedy circuit was disgusted but not surprised. there's been a lot of talk recently that the comedy industry enabled russell brand. i would stand up against that and say they didn't. he's denied all the allegations.

the police haven't arrested him or taken him in for questioning. so at the moment, in the eyes of the law, he is an innocent man. none of it's leaving a good taste in the mouth. and everyone does feel let down, but let down more by the industry that this was able to happen. for example, if anyone had known that russell was dating a 16—year—old back when he was doing it, back in the mid noughties, this would have gone around the circuit like wildfire. everybody would have known within a few days. everyone would phone each other, text each other... "have you heard about russell? oh my god!" everyone would have known about it. and that would have given light to possibly shutting it down much, much sooner. what do you think the comedy industry needs to do next to make sure that this, if it is true, doesn't happen again? the comedy industry has changed and improved a lot since ijoined it 25 years ago. and you've got the likes of people like katherine ryan and sarah pascoe, who are, you know, such powerhouses of talent and brilliance.

and they are really sort of bringing equality to the industry, which is so, so needed because with more equality you can have more eyes and less chance of this happening, more people speaking out. and you need to have, i think, more men speaking out as well. there's been a lot of criticism that there's not enough men in the comedy industry who are speaking out about this. and that, sadly, is true, and that must change. if you could speak to any of these women who have made these allegations, what would you say to them? it's difficult to speak to them without wanting to cry, frankly. i don't know, really. i don't know. i can't apologise for them because i didn't perform any of the behaviour. i think everyone feels for them. all i can say is we support you. we support you. sima kotetcha there. we contacted russell brand and his team about these allegations but so far haven't heard back.

earlier, stand—up comedian meryl o'rourke came in and we talked about what does or doesn't happen on the circuit son the circuit, including when a "reputation" of unacceptable behaviour takes hold. it did and didn't surprise me. it didn't surprise me because being a contemporary of russell brand's, i was approached in 2020 to ask if i had any stories, while they were collecting evidence. but it did surprise me, because it's so unusual that any of these stories actually do come to fruition and somebody does actually get called out for their behaviour. so, to be clear, you had no negative experiences personally? no, i never met him. absolutely. but in general and with others, i mean, nish kumar has has said it's an open secret that there are predators on the comedy scene. do you think that's a fair characterisation? i think there are predators in every industry. i think in the comedy scene, quite often people don't really know

what to do with us. so, for instance, we don't have stage doors, like theatres do. banter is encouraged and sometimes crosses a line. we're allowed to drink at work. some people have even done drugs at work, so it's not really treated like the office. and people do get very confused as to what's acceptable and what isn't acceptable, which, you know, as a grown adult, ifind a bit odd because we're colleagues. a lot of us have worked in offices before and i think sometimes that feeds into the behaviour. a lot of people leave offices to want the decadent lifestyle of the comedy world. but actually with russell brand in particular, he was on the comedy circuit for a very short time. he was picked up by television very early. and i feel i should also say that a lot of people in the comedy circuit are feeling a spotlight on us when actually all of the reports that have come out have been his behaviour in the tv industry and in hollywood. so, when one hears stories about there being lists of shame of, you know, "don't get find yourself in a dressing room with this man,"

or is that apocryphal or do you think there's substance to that? there are, like with any walk of life, there are different whatsapp groups and different facebook groups that different people are in. i actually choose not to be in those whatsapp groups, because i find the discussions quite difficult. i have named people and being greeted with a wall of, "oh, he's so nice" and at the same time seeing people i really like being called out for things that i personally don't find predatory, but other people do. also, it can be quite negative for the women that aren't included in those whatsapp groups. this constant talk of a list. and there are a lot of women thinking, "well, why haven't i seen the list?" i don't think there is a list. we do have conversations with each other. we double check with each other, "i saw you gigged with him. "was he creepy with you, like he was with me?" and in terms of i guess the kind of humour that was around, particularly in the noughties, i mean, people characterise it as laddish or sexually charged.

i mean, you were presumably doing similar humour from a female perspective. i mean, we've always called it laddish, but being a woman, we had sexual agency. it was a time of very big and encouraged sexual agency. ok, so you're out there doing similar kind of material. 0k, well, tell me if that's wrong. it was the spice girls imes. i used to wear crop tops and fluff out my hair and be very honest and open. and people would say, "well, you can't be sexy on stage because people won't laugh at that." and yet the men were encouraged to be very sexual on stage. and off stage, were there double standards in terms of behaviour? yes, yes, i guess so. i was single when i started on the comedy circuit. people would ask me out quite often. they would be surprised if i said no, because i'd talked about sex on stage, because that's one thing some people find confusing, that this is your mind. why doesn't it match up with what your body is doing? you know, they're two separate things.

a lot of people just say, "well, you know, that was the noughties"