getting rid of a policy that has been here since 1992, i remember charles kennedy talking about a penny on income tax to help the nhs. you must miss it. well, if you remember during the coalition, one of the lib dems' achievements was cutting income tax on lower earners and we aren't going to trash that tradition. there is an issue about taxation at the moment, but the last thing you do is to tax earners. they are the people who have done well and the tax base has got to change. there is no economic or political sense in taxing families through their income, so i think it is sensible and appropriate that ed davey is shifting the emphasis. maybe needing to protect household finances, but what about getting growth into the economy? what about tax cuts?

well, this was the liz truss economics and it led to disaster. there is no magical connection between cutting income tax one day and getting growth the next. economic growth is a difficult process. it is about raising productivity and things we have been talking about for 50 or 60 years. getting the economy moving will involve things like long—term industrial strategy, concentrating on improved training, something we have been trying to do for a long time. butjust income tax is a magic money tree economics that makes no sense. there is a short term feeling that an election is coming closer with rishi sunak�*s queen's speech. have the lib dems got to compromise some of their ideas on things like house—building where the target has been for 300,000 houses to make things affordable for young people and now they are talking about cutting that in half and just going for affordable quality housing, in order to win over

conservative voters? well, the country does need more housing, but there is no point in building very large numbers of luxury flats which sit unoccupied because they have been put up for investment purposes, often by people overseas. we see a lot of that in london. the real priorities affordable housing, including social housing. but that is not a good signal to send, saying you are going to cut the number of houses. i saw on a stand, the young lib dems had a sign saying to just build more houses on their t—shirts. i am in favour of that. then why cut the numbers? it if you have 30,000 houses at the moment and you add 1%, that is not going to affect the price of housing a lot. it is important, i appreciate, but it has to be prioritising the end of the market which is affordable. there are some here who say

ed davey�*s position on europe is too much trying to win votes rather than saying what he really believes, which is, let'sjust rejoin. there is no question ofjust rejoining tomorrow. that makes no sense. ed davey is sensibly saying we don't want to reopen the argument to be had for three years. people have moved on for better or worse. we are still a strongly pro—europe party. we have a route map tojoining the single market and the customs union. in ten years' time, europe will be a very different place. ukraine will be a member. there will be different levels of membership and something that may suit britain better than the previous arrangement. so let's think long term rather than what is going to happen tomorrow. that is the message from ed davey. let's focus on the immediate problems facing the country. we are pro—europe and we want to undo some of the damage, but this is not tomorrow's problem. isn't keir starmer looking quite strong on this now? we have seen him in europe,

shaking hands with macron, visiting the netherlands. your party used to be the one that reached out to the continent. we are, and we will be. there is no doubt about that. keir starmer has made it clear that the labour party doesn't want to touch the single market and the customs union, which is the basis of our economic alignment with europe. he is much more in brexit mode than we are. we accept the reality of the situation and that the public don't have an appetite for going back to those arguments. we have to think positively in the future about re—engaging with europe in a way that makes sense. we are committed to europe, we are the pro—european party, more than keir starmer. you do hear people saying on the doorstep that if they don't want to vote conservative, they would like the other parties to work together. you saw it in oxford west and abingdon. your party has an arrangement

with the greens, why not have one with labour in seats where it's clear that you could be the second challenge then you step back? well, working with other parties is something we do locally and nationally. i encouraged that as party leader. but what the public don't want a kind of stitch up between parties where we say this is yours, and this seat is yours. people don't want that. doesn't that happen anyway? it happens because the public themselves make up their mind about who can best when a certain seat. we know that roughly half of labour and lib dem voters will vote tactically. as long as we have the unfair, very inefficient first past the post system, that is what people have to do. they don't need us to tell them what to do. proportional representation, that is a longer discussion for the future. thank you for your time. it's an interesting conference. there are all sorts of policies popping up. we just saw one for a penny charged on fat clothes that might be added

on fast clothes that might be added to the recycling budget so you have to pay more for something that is fast clothes maybe the leadership don't like that, but there are some original thinking going on here. the former prime minister, gordon brown, has called for a global windfall levy on oil— producing countries, to help poorer nations tackle climate change. speaking ahead of the cop 28 summit in dubai in november, mr brown said the levy would help kick—start a wider agreement for a climate finance fund to support the global south this winter. we've got an explosive situation in the world today. we've got droughts, floods and fire storms hitting the poorest countries in the world, and yet at the same time we have got these unprecedented profits, windfall profits that have been made by the petro states and oil companies, and the extent of it is that it is 4 trillion, 4,000 billion in revenues in the last year, 2.5 trillion

of that a windfall, money that is unearned but money that should go to helping those very people that are suffering from the high energy prices, and suffering from climate change as a result of historic emissions. that's why i am proposing that the chair of the cop28, which is the united arab emirates, come forward with a proposal to kick—start a new financing mechanism to deal with the mitigation and adaptation in the south and they then ask, after they pay a windfall levy, i suggest 25 billion, they then ask the rest of the rich countries to guarantee finance so we can eventually get to $1 trillion a year, which is what is necessary to deal with the developmental and climate change needs of the global south. just to bring in some breaking news now from the metropolitan police. we have got a statement from the

metropolitan police. they have put online to say that enough firearms have returned to arm duties for the metropolitan police to be able to meet its counterterrorism responsibilities without military help. a statement from the force said, as of lunchtime on monday the number of officers who had returned to arm duties were sufficient enough for us to no longer require external assistance to meet our counterterrorism responsibilities. a limited number of officers from other uk police forces continue to support non—counterterrorism arm policing. and of course that is following on from a number of armed officers handing in their weapons after a police officer was charged with murdering 24—year—old man, chris kaba. specialist british army bomb

disposal teams have been training their ukrainian counterparts to clear russian minefields. ukraine is now the most heavily mined country in the world — with hundreds of thousands of explosive devices littering the ground and slowing ukraine's offensive operations. the training by british army sapppers — who faced similar deadly obstacles in afghanistan — was specifically requested by ukraine. 0ur defence correspondent jonathan beale reports from poland where they've been carrying out the training. mine detectors beep imagine doing this while under enemy fire. trying to find and make safe a deadly hidden device which could also kill you. it's what these experienced ukrainian engineers have been doing for the past year. now, here in neighbouring poland, honing their skills, with the help of british sappers who faced a similar threat in the heat and dust of afghanistan. back in ukraine, this is what they are facing —

ground littered with russian mines and explosives. ukraine is now the most heavily mined country in the world. and it's what has bogged down their advance. russia's laid hundreds of thousands of mines across ukraine, scattered over an area the size of florida. in some places, the minefields are ten kilometres deep. and in just one square metre, there could be as many as five mines. sappers like den are now being targeted by russian forces. so they mostly have to conduct their work at night. and there are simply not enough of them. would you describe being a sapper in ukraine at the moment as being the most dangerousjob in the world? yes, absolutely.

a lot of them being killed by mines, by russian artillery because they are working on the front line? yeah. have you lost many friends? what message would you like to send the west? keep going. we need your help. is that because you are worried that the west won't keep going? because we won't make it by our own. when we make staff safe, we should make sure the teams cover. we should make sure the teams in cover. this training and support is appreciated. the uk has also supplied ukraine with 1,500 mine detectors. the hope that it will make a difference. we are fellow soldiers

at the end of the day. we share experiences throughout the course of our experiences and their experiences, and we train together. and do you think you have given them the skills to stay alive? we have added to them. the clock is ticking on ukraine's offensive. and still in their way are the minefields and booby—traps laid on an industrial scale. now it's time for a look at the weather with stav danaos. hello there. apart from some rain across the north and the west of the uk, today potentially could be one of the better days of this week as things are set to turn very windy with gales and heavy rain, particularly around the middle part of the week. but this afternoon looks largely fine and dry for most of us, that is away from the north west of the uk, where here rain will continue to affect the north and west of scotland. a few showery bursts as well, further south and west

across western england and western wales. but a good deal of sunshine around, particularly towards southern and eastern parts of the country which will stay dry all day and will feel quite warm as well. in the brisk south—westerly wind up to 23 degrees in the south—east, generally the high teens further north and west. as we head through tonight, it'll be dry for most areas. the winds pick up a little bit across the north and the west. we start to see some rain eventually pushing into northern ireland as a weather front approaches. i think anywhere is going to be particularly cold tonight. lowest values around seven to nine degrees across north—east england and eastern scotland. a couple of weather fronts, though, invade as we move through tuesday. so although we start dry and bright through central and eastern areas, we'll start to see some rain pushing across england. pushing across england and wales. some of this could be thundery nature and longer spells of rain also affecting northern ireland, western scotland with that other weather front. so a bit of a mixed day on tuesday. but again, not too bad in

the sunshine across the southeast, again, could be up to 23 celsius, high teens further north. by wednesday, though, we could see a stormy spell of weather. storm agnes, named by the met office, could bring some disruption maybe towards northern and western parts of the uk. here it is on the pressure charts, gathering speed, deepening rapidly as it approaches ireland. but as the storm approaches our shores, it will start to weaken, but still pack quite a punch with some gale—force winds 60 to 70mph an hour around the irish sea coast may be in excess of up to 80mph. and also very windy conditions across northern and eastern scotland. and with the strong winds throughout wednesday, heavy rain will pile up the western side of the country across northern ireland, up in towards scotland because see some localised flooding in fact across the east and south east of england. i think you will escape the worst of it. we're seeing some sunshine, one or two showers, but it will be quite blustery wherever you are. and then signs as we end the week and push into the weekend high pressure could build in bring is increasing amounts of drier and sunnier weather. take care.

live from london, this is bbc news. scenes of panic and chaos as more people leave nagorno—karabakh for armenia following azerbaijan's seizure of the disputed territory. they don't believe they can be saved under the rule, so they are fleeing with all their possessions. ukraine claims 33 officers were killed in crimea last friday. us screenwriters reach a tentative deal with studio bosses , which could end a five—month strike. the british military offers to support armed police after dozens of london's firearms officers turn in their weapons. welcome to bbc news.