and quite a lot of opposition to it, and quite a lot of opposition to it, and quite a lot of opposition to it, and quite a lot of support for it. in effect, anyone aged 14 or younger now will not be able to legally buy cigarettes in england ever. i bet other nations follow on this one. the legal age of purchase will rise annually from the age of 18. the goal is a smoke—free britain, making cigarettes obsolete. has rishi sunak gone far enough, i wonder? i wonder what you are thinking. tell us. opponents say this is nanny state health fascism and an attack on ordinary people and their culture from metropolitan do—gooders. liz truss hates this idea. within 30 years, half the uk population could be banned from buying cigarettes, so by 2043, if be banned from buying cigarettes, so by 20113, if you are 35 and want a packet of 20 you will have to find an obliging 36—year—old. one tory mp points out that in a0 years�* time,

i�*ll be really going to be asking people aged 6a age idea? let�*s see what you think about this. maybe we should go even further. maybe he has bottled it. should wejust should go even further. maybe he has bottled it. should we just ban smoking? do get in touch. rishi sunak has been defending his plan to phase out smoking. he announced at the conservative party conference yesterday — that the ban on people buying cigarettes would go up by a year every year, so eventually no—one can buy them. the prime minister also confirmed he�*ll scrap the northern leg of the proposed hs2 rail line. rents in britain have reached record levels. the property website rightmove

says the average monthly rent was £1,278, while in london it rose by 12% compared with last year, to £2,627. complaints about two water companies have pushed up the number of customers contacting the regulator. many of the grievances about thames water and southern water were related to bills. the uk�*s cloud computing market is to face a competition probe over concerns it�*s being dominated by amazon and microsoft. media watchdog ofcom says the two make up 70—80% of the sector in the uk, while closest rival google has 5%—10%. a couple of things around this attempt to put flags into the

ashtray of history and make it obsolete by the turn of the next century. —— flags. cigarette sales would be phased out almost entirely as the last generations able to buy them die. and interestingly rishi sunak announced yesterday it wiped £1 billion of the shares of tobacco companies. so, attempts to create a smoke—free britain could cost the treasury in the short term, but it is estimated there will be massive savings in the long term. £85 billion by 2075, if we are still around. that is another issue. new zealand has adopted similar measures. last year they passed laws on a lifetime ban for smoking on those aged 1a and under. this is what rishi sunak said yesterday.

if we could stop the start, then we would be on our way to ending the biggest cause of preventable death and disease in our country. so i propose that in future we raise the smoking age by one year every year. that means a 1a—year—old... applause that means a 1a—year—old today will never legally be sold a cigarette, and that they and their generation can grow up smoke—free. so, deborah from action on smoking and hell. good morning, always nice to talk to you. and chris joins us

from the institute of economic affairs. he described this as hideously illiberal. good morning, deborah. ., ., ., ~ deborah. good morning. good to talk to ou. deborah. good morning. good to talk to yom the — deborah. good morning. good to talk to you. the telegraph _ deborah. good morning. good to talk to you. the telegraph worked - deborah. good morning. good to talk to you. the telegraph worked this - to you. the telegraph worked this out this morning, _ to you. the telegraph worked this out this morning, by _ to you. the telegraph worked this out this morning, by 2043, - to you. the telegraph worked this out this morning, by 2043, if - to you. the telegraph worked this out this morning, by 2043, if you | out this morning, by 20a3, if you are 35 and want a packet of 20 you will need to find an obliging 36—year—old, and in a0 years�* time, not that far away, you will still be around, we are going to have to ask 60—year—olds for age id to buy cigarettes. this is ludicrous. 60-year-olds for age id to buy cigarettes. this is ludicrous. well, i disagree- — cigarettes. this is ludicrous. well, i disagree- i— cigarettes. this is ludicrous. well, i disagree. i think _ cigarettes. this is ludicrous. well, i disagree. i think it _ cigarettes. this is ludicrous. well, i disagree. i think it is _ cigarettes. this is ludicrous. well, i disagree. i think it is part - cigarettes. this is ludicrous. well, i disagree. i think it is part of - cigarettes. this is ludicrous. well, i disagree. i think it is part of a . i disagree. i think it is part of a conversation being started about just how lethal smoking is, and that was what rishi sunak pointed out yesterday. it is not going to be illegal to purchase cigarettes, just

to sell, and there are alternatives. e—cigarettes are proving an alternative to smokers who really can�*t quit. alternative to smokers who really can't auit. . , .,, alternative to smokers who really can't auit. . , can't quit. can i stop you there? i 'ust want can't quit. can i stop you there? i just want to _ can't quit. can i stop you there? i just want to point _ can't quit. can i stop you there? i just want to point out, _ can't quit. can i stop you there? i just want to point out, you - can't quit. can i stop you there? i just want to point out, you said . can't quit. can i stop you there? i | just want to point out, you said we need to start a conversation about how lethal and dangerous smoking is. as long as i have been doing phone—ins, quite a long time, we have been having a conversation about how lethal and dangerous smoking is, so i don�*t quite get this. smoking is, so i don't quite get this. ., . , smoking is, so i don't quite get this. ., ., , ., ,, smoking is, so i don't quite get this. ., ., , ., , this. unfortunately, and this is a twin track approach, _ this. unfortunately, and this is a twin track approach, so - this. unfortunately, and this is a twin track approach, so the - twin track approach, so the government have also announced a doubling of support for stop smoking services to help smokers quit, and the majority want to. the vast majority, i don�*t know any smoker who wants their child to take up smoking. so the mass media campaigns that helped actually make clear to people just how harmful it is. our surveys show that the level of understanding among young people has

gone down and down, set only about half of 18—2a —year—olds know that smoking causes cancer, heart disease and respiratory disease. that is shocking, mind blowing. so this idea that everyone knows, or that everyone really understands just how harmful it is, that if you smoke, a lifelong smoker, up to two thirds of them will die prematurely, losing on average ten years of life. not only die early, but suffer disease and disability and be unable to work. things that smoking does. yes, but you know what kids are like. i have got to young adults that smoke. they don�*t care and they say they will give up by the time they are 30. seriously, there will be a situation not so far away that 35—year—olds will be asked for id. do you endorse

that? i will be asked for id. do you endorse that? 4' , will be asked for id. do you endorse that? ~ , a, will be asked for id. do you endorse that? ~ , ., ., ,~ will be asked for id. do you endorse that? ~ , a, a, a, that? i think if they are asked for id it will make _ that? i think if they are asked for id it will make life _ that? i think if they are asked for id it will make life easier - that? i think if they are asked for| id it will make life easier because we need to make something work for retailers as well because it will be difficult for retailers. and actually, if everyone buying tobacco has to show id itjust makes life simpler. and it reinforces that this is the most lethal legal substance and it was invented today it would be banned immediately. you need to stop the next generation. christopher snowdon, what do you say to deborah? ~ ., , , to deborah? well, about the supposed ianorance to deborah? well, about the supposed ignorance about _ to deborah? well, about the supposed ignorance about the _ to deborah? well, about the supposed ignorance about the dangers _ to deborah? well, about the supposed ignorance about the dangers of - ignorance about the dangers of smoking, — ignorance about the dangers of smoking, deborah spent a long time campaigning for plain packaging which _ campaigning for plain packaging which makes the warning is more noticeable, and maybe it is because young _ noticeable, and maybe it is because young people are smoking cigarettes brought— young people are smoking cigarettes brought in_ young people are smoking cigarettes brought in from abroad and they don't _ brought in from abroad and they don't understand the warnings in foreign _ don't understand the warnings in foreign languages, i don't know. but to foreign languages, idon't know. but to try— foreign languages, idon't know. but to try to— foreign languages, i don't know. but to try to understand your question about_ to try to understand your question about how— to try to understand your question about how preposterous this will

become — about how preposterous this will become in a fairly short space of time, _ become in a fairly short space of time, yes— become in a fairly short space of time, yes it _ become in a fairly short space of time, yes it will, but look, i think that is_ time, yes it will, but look, i think that is deliberate. in about five or six years. — that is deliberate. in about five or six years, once you have got 22—year—olds buying cigarettes and 21—year—olds can't, it has already become — 21—year—olds can't, it has already become absurd. it won't work. there will be _ become absurd. it won't work. there will be a _ become absurd. it won't work. there will be a market of people selling to one _ will be a market of people selling to one another, and the already existing — to one another, and the already existing black market will get biggen — existing black market will get bigger. at that point people like deboreh— bigger. at that point people like deborah all say this is preposterous, we need to have a level_ preposterous, we need to have a level playing field and ban it for everyone — level playing field and ban it for everyone. then finally we can get to the last— everyone. then finally we can get to the last step of this prohibition crusade — the last step of this prohibition crusade. �* ., , the last step of this prohibition crusade. �* . , ., ., crusade. and that is what we are askin: crusade. and that is what we are asking this _ crusade. and that is what we are asking this morning, _ crusade. and that is what we are asking this morning, maybe - crusade. and that is what we are | asking this morning, maybe rishi sunak has not gone far enough. you are doinu sunak has not gone far enough. you are doing your bit there, nikki. i - are doing your bit there, nikki. i am, are doing your bit there, nikki. am, i'm not are doing your bit there, nikki. i am, i'm not campaigning, i are doing your bit there, nikki. i am, i'm not campaigning, lam am, i�*m not campaigning, iam debating. deborah, what about that? what about going even further question but what about actually saying than the stuff? ==

question but what about actually saying than the stuff?— question but what about actually saying than the stuff? -- ban. there are nearly 6 — saying than the stuff? -- ban. there are nearly 6 million _ saying than the stuff? -- ban. there are nearly 6 million smokers - saying than the stuff? -- ban. there are nearly 6 million smokers in - are nearly 6 million smokers in england, and more if you count the uk as a whole. england, and more if you count the uk as a whole-— uk as a whole. would that be an infringement _ uk as a whole. would that be an infringement of— uk as a whole. would that be an infringement of civil _ uk as a whole. would that be an infringement of civil liberties? . uk as a whole. would that be an infringement of civil liberties? it j infringement of civil liberties? it wouldn't work and it wouldn't help wouldn�*t work and it wouldn�*t help smokers who are addicted. they need to be helped to quit and e—cigarettes have a role to play stop if you smoke, then vaping is much less harmful. but it needs to be done in a proportionate way. if we ban it overnight it definitely would not work. but certainly, when the age of sail was increased from 16 up to 18, smoking rate in 16 and 17—year—olds went down, and the rate of decline was even higher than 18, 19 and 20—year—olds in the us when they raised the age up to 21. so it won�*t necessarily stop everyone, but it will stop people entering into a life addiction. this is not free choice. the only free choice is the

first cigarette. two thirds of people who try one cigarette go on to become daily smokers, and that means addicted smokers. it then becomes extremely hard to quit and often takes many years, if people succeed at all. on average it takes 30 attempts. this is not a lifestyle choice. it is an addiction to a substance, tobacco, which if it was invented today would be banned. 3c} invented today would be banned. 30 attempts to smoke smoking? wow. it took me three. you attempts to smoke smoking? wow. it took me three-— took me three. you did really well because it — took me three. you did really well because it took _ took me three. you did really well because it took me _ took me three. you did really well because it took me much - took me three. you did really well because it took me much nearer l took me three. you did really well l because it took me much nearer 30. really? because it took me much nearer 30. reall ? , because it took me much nearer 30. really? yes. christopher, do you really think— really? yes. christopher, do you really think this _ really? yes. christopher, do you really think this is _ really? jazz christopher, do you really think this is mission creek towards banning it? fif really think this is mission creek towards banning it?— really think this is mission creek towards banning it? of course, they are banning — towards banning it? of course, they are banning it. _ towards banning it? of course, they are banning it, it— towards banning it? of course, they are banning it, it is— towards banning it? of course, they are banning it, it is an _ towards banning it? of course, they are banning it, it is an incremental. are banning it, it is an incremental ban~ _ are banning it, it is an incremental ban~ in— are banning it, it is an incremental ban~ inioo— are banning it, it is an incremental ban. in 100 years it will be completely banned. so it is pointless for people... no one can pretend _

pointless for people... no one can pretend this is not about prohibition when the prime minister has literally announced prohibition. it is has literally announced prohibition. it is a _ has literally announced prohibition. it is a weird — has literally announced prohibition. it is a weird kind of prohibition and will— it is a weird kind of prohibition and will create all sorts of absurdities, but the end game is to stamp _ absurdities, but the end game is to stamp this— absurdities, but the end game is to stamp this out completely. you start off with _ stamp this out completely. you start off with children being banned from buying _ off with children being banned from buying cigarettes, quite rightly obviously, and then you gradually increase _ obviously, and then you gradually increase the number of people who can't buy— increase the number of people who can't buy cigarettes, until eventually one glorious day, everyone is treated like a child. it is a kind _ everyone is treated like a child. it is a kind of— everyone is treated like a child. it is a kind of metaphor for society. labour— is a kind of metaphor for society. labour shadow health secretary has said he would like to see smoking phased out altogether, expecting it would be opposed by all sorts of vested interest. labour will support this, surprise surprise. malcolm in st austell, what do you think? goad st austell, what do you think? good morninu. st austell, what do you think? good morning- hope _ st austell, what do you think? good morning- hope you _ st austell, what do you think? good morning. hope you are _ st austell, what do you think? (13mg. morning. hope you are well. st austell, what do you think? good morning. hope you are well. a - st austell, what do you think? good morning. hope you are well. a lot i morning. hope you are well. a lot better since _ morning. hope you are well. a lot better since i _ morning. hope you are well. a lot better since i stopped _ morning. hope you are well. a lot better since i stopped smoking in

2000! me better since i stopped smoking in 2000! ~ better since i stopped smoking in 2000! ., better since i stopped smoking in 2000! ~ ., , , 2000! me too, former smoker. yes, ou did 2000! me too, former smoker. yes, you did really — 2000! me too, former smoker. yes, you did really well. _ 2000! me too, former smoker. yes, you did really well. three _ 2000! me too, former smoker. yes, you did really well. three attempts l you did really well. three attempts to stop smoking and nailed it on the third one. it took me slightly longer. not as many as 30. banning smoking. really, this isjust another thing by the nanny state. can�*t help but feel that rishi sunak is doing a bit of headline grabbing. let�*s bump that out there and see what the response is. you know? yes. what the response is. you know? yes, he has not what the response is. you know? yes, he has got a — what the response is. you know? yes, he has got a pretty _ what the response is. you know? yes, he has got a pretty frosty response from some on the right of the party who cherish libertarian and liberalism and hate any notion of a nanny state. his party is somewhat riven on this. nanny state. his party is somewhat riven on this-— riven on this. yes. if you are going to ban smoking — riven on this. yes. if you are going to ban smoking because _ riven on this. yes. if you are going to ban smoking because it - riven on this. yes. if you are going to ban smoking because it is - riven on this. yes. if you are goingj to ban smoking because it is really dangerous, let�*s ban those metal boxes full of flammable liquid as well. sorry, ithink boxes full of flammable liquid as well. sorry, i think they are called car. i

well. sorry, i think they are called car. ., y ., well. sorry, i think they are called car. ., , ., ., well. sorry, i think they are called car. ., ., , , well. sorry, i think they are called car. ., y., ., , ., , , no, car. i thought you meant shapes. no, cars are full— car. i thought you meant shapes. no, cars are full of _ car. i thought you meant shapes. no, cars are full of flammable _ car. i thought you meant shapes. no, cars are full of flammable liquid, - cars are full of flammable liquid, that�*s dangerous. or that liquid you can buy in the supermarkets, alcohol. i think christopher was your previous speaker there. everybody is being treated as a child. everything is getting dumbed down. i don�*t if that is too much of an extreme view... down. i don't if that is too much of an extreme view. . ._ an extreme view... no, no. it is what people _ an extreme view... no, no. it is what people are _ an extreme view... no, no. it is what people are saying. - an extreme view... no, no. it is what people are saying. bridget| an extreme view... no, no. it is l what people are saying. bridget is an extreme view... no, no. it is - what people are saying. bridget is a smoker. let�*s hearfrom her. how do you feel about this, bridget? goad you feel about this, bridget? good morninu. i you feel about this, bridget? good morning. ithink— you feel about this, bridget? good morning. i think it _ you feel about this, bridget? good morning. i think it is _ you feel about this, bridget? good morning. i think it is a _ you feel about this, bridget? good morning. i think it is a bit - morning. i think it is a bit ridiculous, really. they are detecting to us what we do with our bodies _ detecting to us what we do with our bodies and — detecting to us what we do with our bodies and our own lives. i have been _ bodies and our own lives. i have been a — bodies and our own lives. i have been a smoker for quite a few years on and _ been a smoker for quite a few years on and off, — been a smoker for quite a few years on and off, and i can give up when i

want— on and off, and i can give up when i want to _ on and off, and i can give up when i want to but— on and off, and i can give up when i want to but i — on and off, and i can give up when i want to. but i actually enjoy it. it is stress — want to. but i actually enjoy it. it is stress relief for me. are they going _ is stress relief for me. are they going to — is stress relief for me. are they going to start saying to people no, you can't— going to start saying to people no, you can't smoke and start taking away— you can't smoke and start taking away fatty — you can't smoke and start taking away fatty foods for people that are obese _ away fatty foods for people that are obese to _ away fatty foods for people that are obese to make them healthy customers are they— obese to make them healthy customers are they going to take away alcohol to stop _ are they going to take away alcohol to stop people drinking to be healthy? drugs? allthese to stop people drinking to be healthy? drugs? all these sorts of things _ healthy? drugs? all these sorts of things we — healthy? drugs? all these sorts of things. we can do what we like with our bodies — things. we can do what we like with our bodies. i�*m things. we can do what we like with our bodies. �* ., ., .., things. we can do what we like with our bodies-— our bodies. i'm going to come to dan, an our bodies. i'm going to come to dan. an nhs _ our bodies. i'm going to come to dan, an nhs doctor _ our bodies. i'm going to come to dan, an nhs doctor who - our bodies. i'm going to come to dan, an nhs doctor who has - our bodies. i'm going to come to dan, an nhs doctor who has got| our bodies. i'm going to come to l dan, an nhs doctor who has got in touch with us. he is with us until 920 because he has work ahead. this is a matter of freedom, isn�*t it, to do to your own body what you want to do? , ., ., ., do to your own body what you want to do? ,., ., ., ., ., ~' do to your own body what you want to do? ,., ., ., ., ., ,, ,., do to your own body what you want to do? ,., ., ., ., ., ,, y., ., do? good morning and thank you for havin: me do? good morning and thank you for having me on _ do? good morning and thank you for having me on the _ do? good morning and thank you for having me on the show. _ do? good morning and thank you for having me on the show. firstly, - do? good morning and thank you for having me on the show. firstly, i - having me on the show. firstly, i think it is a massive step in the right direction. public health and generally prevention of diseases

rather than dealing with the consequences and the aftermath is the way forward. everyday we see not just lung cancer, multiple other conditions as a result of smoking, and it put a huge strain on the nhs. looking to address that is going to be beneficial long term. what looking to address that is going to be beneficial long term.— looking to address that is going to be beneficial long term. what do you sa to be beneficial long term. what do you say to bridget? _ be beneficial long term. what do you say to bridget? are _ be beneficial long term. what do you say to bridget? are you _ be beneficial long term. what do you say to bridget? are you still- be beneficial long term. what do you say to bridget? are you still with - say to bridget? are you still with us, bridget?— say to bridget? are you still with us, bridget? say to bridget? are you still with us, bridaet? , . g .,, us, bridget? yes, i am. my mum has never smoked _ us, bridget? yes, i am. my mum has never smoked in _ us, bridget? yes, i am. my mum has never smoked in her _ us, bridget? yes, i am. my mum has never smoked in her whole _ us, bridget? yes, i am. my mum has never smoked in her whole life. - us, bridget? yes, i am. my mum has never smoked in her whole life. yet | never smoked in her whole life. yet she got— never smoked in her whole life. yet she got cancer this year and unfortunately died within six months _ unfortunately died within six months. pancreatic cancer. she had never— months. pancreatic cancer. she had never smoked. she had not been around _ never smoked. she had not been around smokers. there is somebody else around smokers. there is somebody etse i_ around smokers. there is somebody etse i know— around smokers. there is somebody else i know at the moment who has a rare form _ else i know at the moment who has a rare form of— else i know at the moment who has a rare form of cancer and she had never— rare form of cancer and she had never smoked or been around smokers, so you _ never smoked or been around smokers, so you can't— never smoked or been around smokers, so you can't pin smoking, just smoking, _ so you can't pin smoking, just smoking, on people getting cancer.

yes, smoking, on people getting cancer. yes. there — smoking, on people getting cancer. yes, there is a point to it that some — yes, there is a point to it that some people do, but you can't blame smoking _ some people do, but you can't blame smoking on— some people do, but you can't blame smoking on every single cancer. half of the _ smoking on every single cancer. half of the doctors that i know, because i of the doctors that i know, because i used _ of the doctors that i know, because i used to— of the doctors that i know, because i used to be — of the doctors that i know, because i used to be in the health service, are preaching to patients to stop smoking, — are preaching to patients to stop smoking, but the majority of them smoke _ smoking, but the ma'ority of them smoke. . smoking, but the ma'ority of them smoke. , ., , .,, ., smoke. tell us about the pleasure of smokina. smoke. tell us about the pleasure of smoking. remind _ smoke. tell us about the pleasure of smoking. remind me. _ smoke. tell us about the pleasure of smoking. remind me. i— smoke. tell us about the pleasure of smoking. remind me. i do _ smoke. tell us about the pleasure of smoking. remind me. i do enjoy - smoke. tell us about the pleasure of smoking. remind me. i do enjoy it. | smoking. remind me. i do en'oy it. when i smoking. remind me. i do en'oy it. when r was — smoking. remind me. i do en'oy it. when i was with i smoking. remind me. i do en'oy it. when i was with my i smoking. remind me. i do en'oy it. when i was with my mum _ smoking. remind me. i do enjoy it. when i was with my mum and - smoking. remind me. i do enjoy it. when i was with my mum and my i smoking. remind me. i do enjoy it. - when i was with my mum and my mum was dying, _ when i was with my mum and my mum was dying, i— when i was with my mum and my mum was dying, i found it, when i was with my mum and my mum was dying, ifound it, not when i was with my mum and my mum was dying, i found it, not a comfort, _ was dying, i found it, not a comfort, but it helped me get through— comfort, but it helped me get through it. i am not a drinker stop i through it. i am not a drinker stop i don't _ through it. i am not a drinker stop i don't take — through it. i am not a drinker stop i don't take drugs or anything else. but smoking, that helped me get through— but smoking, that helped me get through that difficult time with my mum _ through that difficult time with my mum dying. i through that difficult time with my mum d inc. . through that difficult time with my mumd inc. . , ., through that difficult time with my mum dying-— mum dying. i am so sorry to hear about your _ mum dying. i am so sorry to hear about your mum. _ mum dying. i am so sorry to hear about your mum. but _ mum dying. i am so sorry to hear about your mum. but you - mum dying. i am so sorry to hear about your mum. but you are - mum dying. i am so sorry to hear- about your mum. but you are making an interesting point there and we have heard it before, we heard it from a former health secretaryjohn reid many years ago, it is a real

pleasure for people.— reid many years ago, it is a real pleasure for people. doctor dan? yes, i pleasure for people. doctor dan? yes. i am — pleasure for people. doctor dan? yes. i am sorry — pleasure for people. doctor dan? yes, i am sorry to _ pleasure for people. doctor dan? yes, i am sorry to hear _ pleasure for people. doctor dan? yes, i am sorry to hear that, - pleasure for people. doctor dan? yes, i am sorry to hear that, and| yes, i am sorry to hear that, and yes i agree that not all cancers are linked to smoking, but equally there is a strong link that smoking can increase your risk of cancer and we should be doing everything possible to try to reduce these risks in people. equally, there are a number of other drugs and things that are illegal, and given the information we now have i feel we should be making a strong act to do all we can to reduce the risk. it has been said before earlier in the programme that if cigarettes have been discovered now, that i don�*t think they would be permitted. now, that i don't think they would be permitted-— now, that i don't think they would be permitted.- equally, l now, that i don't think they would i be permitted.- equally, you be permitted. alcohol? equally, you could make — be permitted. alcohol? equally, you could make a _ be permitted. alcohol? equally, you could make a similar— be permitted. alcohol? equally, you could make a similar argument. -

be permitted. alcohol? equally, you could make a similar argument. it . be permitted. alcohol? equally, you could make a similar argument. it is ingrained in culture, and that will be a difficult thing to address. equally, there are a number of long—term health implications with alcohol as well. in long-term health implications with alcohol as well.— alcohol as well. in an ideal world if ou alcohol as well. in an ideal world if you could _ alcohol as well. in an ideal world if you could wave _ alcohol as well. in an ideal world if you could wave your _ alcohol as well. in an ideal world if you could wave your wand, - alcohol as well. in an ideal world| if you could wave your wand, you would get rid of alcohol, would you? i think that if alcohol was newly discovered now, whether it would be permitted and license, i�*m not sure that it would be. that�*s a very different can of worms. is that it would be. that's a very different can of worms.- that it would be. that's a very different can of worms. is it? is it a different — different can of worms. is it? is it a different can — different can of worms. is it? is it a different can of _ different can of worms. is it? is it a different can of worms, - different can of worms. is it? is it a different can of worms, or - different can of worms. is it? is it a different can of worms, or is - different can of worms. is it? is it a different can of worms, or is it i a different can of worms, or is it comparable. zoe, hello.- comparable. zoe, hello. good morning- _ comparable. zoe, hello. good morning. christopher, - comparable. zoe, hello. good morning. christopher, are - comparable. zoe, hello. goodj morning. christopher, are you comparable. zoe, hello. good- morning. christopher, are you still there? yes. _ morning. christopher, are you still there? yes. i— morning. christopher, are you still there? yes, i am. _ morning. christopher, are you still there? yes, i am. zoe, _ morning. christopher, are you still| there? yes, i am. zoe, christopher there? yes, iam. zoe, christopher thinks this is bonkers. there? yes, i am. zoe, christopher thinks this is bonkers.— thinks this is bonkers. what do you sa ? i thinks this is bonkers. what do you say? i applaud _ thinks this is bonkers. what do you say? i applaud the _ thinks this is bonkers. what do you say? i applaud the government. i thinks this is bonkers. what do you i say? i applaud the government. what i am say? i applaud the government. what i am hearing — say? i applaud the government. what i am hearing where i live, there say? i applaud the government. what lam hearing where i live, there is a iam hearing where i live, there is a reat— lam hearing where i live, there is a real cocaine problem. i hear of

parties _ a real cocaine problem. i hear of parties with _ a real cocaine problem. i hear of parties with 15—year—old having cocaine. — parties with 15—year—old having cocaine. i— parties with 15—year—old having cocaine, i hear of pubs selling it behind — cocaine, i hear of pubs selling it behind the — cocaine, i hear of pubs selling it behind the bar. a cocaine, i hear of pubs selling it behind the bar.— cocaine, i hear of pubs selling it behind the bar. a massive problem, but let's not — behind the bar. a massive problem, but let's not talk _ behind the bar. a massive problem, but let's not talk about _ behind the bar. a massive problem, but let's not talk about that - behind the bar. a massive problem, but let's not talk about that just - but let�*s not talk about that just now. let�*s talk about this smoking business. do you applaud this decision? . ., business. do you applaud this decision?_ why? - business. do you applaud this decision? , ., wh ? �* , decision? yes, i do. why? because i think it is a — decision? yes, i do. why? because i think it is a public _ decision? yes, i do. why? because i think it is a public health _ decision? yes, i do. why? because i think it is a public health problem. i think it is a public health problem. ithink— think it is a public health problem. i think it _ think it is a public health problem. i think it puts a lot of strain on the nhs, _ i think it puts a lot of strain on the nhs, and ijust think it is a waste — the nhs, and ijust think it is a waste of— the nhs, and ijust think it is a waste of peoples money. £12 the nhs, and ijust think it is a waste of peoples money. £12 50 for a acket of waste of peoples money. £12 50 for a packet of 20. — waste of peoples money. £12 50 for a packet of 20, something _ waste of peoples money. £12 50 for a packet of 20, something like - waste of peoples money. £12 50 for a packet of 20, something like that. i packet of 20, something like that. my packet of 20, something like that. my goodness me. yes £12 50 a day, it is a lot— my goodness me. yes £12 50 a day, it is a lot of— my goodness me. yes £12 50 a day, it is a lot of money. it my goodness me. yes £12 50 a day, it is a lot of money.— is a lot of money. it is. hello, sandra- _ is a lot of money. it is. hello, sandra. what _ is a lot of money. it is. hello, sandra. what do _ is a lot of money. it is. hello, sandra. what do you - is a lot of money. it is. hello, sandra. what do you think? i is a lot of money. it is. hello, - sandra. what do you think? good mornin: , sandra. what do you think? good morning, nikki. _ sandra. what do you think? good morning, nikki. i—

sandra. what do you think? good morning, nikki. ithink— sandra. what do you think? good morning, nikki. ithink it- sandra. what do you think? (13mg. morning, nikki. i think it should be banned. and i think it should not be sold in supermarkets, newsagents because all the time you can buy it, people will buy it. also we should ban vapes. they are encouraging more and more young people to take up smoking. and more young people to take up smokina. ., ., ., ,, ., . . ., ., smoking. you would take tobacco out of sho -s smoking. you would take tobacco out of shops now. — smoking. you would take tobacco out of shops now, would _ smoking. you would take tobacco out of shops now, would you? _ smoking. you would take tobacco out of shops now, would you? i _ smoking. you would take tobacco out of shops now, would you? i would - of shops now, would you? i would actuall . of shops now, would you? i would actually- itut _ of shops now, would you? i would actually. but why _ of shops now, would you? i would actually. but why do _ of shops now, would you? i would| actually. but why do supermarkets need to sell tobacco? why? they must be making a good profit from it. but i would, yes. be making a good profit from it. but iwould. yes-— i would, yes. completely stop sellin: i would, yes. completely stop selling tobacco. _ i would, yes. completely stop selling tobacco. completely i i would, yes. completely stop i selling tobacco. completely stop selling tobacco. completely stop selling tobacco. completely stop selling tobacco. christopher snowdon?— selling tobacco. christopher snowdon? , ., _ ., , snowdon? obviously i would be a . ainst snowdon? obviously i would be against that. — snowdon? obviously i would be against that, but _ snowdon? obviously i would be against that, but i'm _ snowdon? obviously i would be against that, but i'm probably l snowdon? obviously i would be| against that, but i'm probably in snowdon? obviously i would be i against that, but i'm probably in a minority — against that, but i'm probably in a minority i— against that, but i'm probably in a minority iam _ against that, but i'm probably in a minority. i am almost _ against that, but i'm probably in a minority. i am almost passed - against that, but i'm probably in a i minority. i am almost passed caring, it's been— minority. i am almost passed caring, it's been 15_ minority. i am almost passed caring, it's been 15 years _ minority. i am almost passed caring, it's been 15 years banging _ minority. i am almost passed caring, it's been 15 years banging my head i it's been 15 years banging my head against _ it's been 15 years banging my head against a _ it's been 15 years banging my head against a brick— it's been 15 years banging my head against a brick wall— it's been 15 years banging my head against a brick wall on _ it's been 15 years banging my head against a brick wall on this - it's been 15 years banging my head against a brick wall on this nanny i against a brick wall on this nanny state. _ against a brick wall on this nanny

state. and — against a brick wall on this nanny state. and in— against a brick wall on this nanny state, and in general— against a brick wall on this nanny state, and in general most - against a brick wall on this nannyl state, and in general most people are just _ state, and in general most people are just eager— state, and in general most people are just eager to _ state, and in general most people are just eager to ban _ state, and in general most people are just eager to ban things. - state, and in general most peoplej are just eager to ban things. what they don't— are just eager to ban things. what they don't do. _ are just eager to ban things. what they don't do, they _ are just eager to ban things. what they don't do, they want - are just eager to ban things. what they don't do, they want to - are just eager to ban things. what they don't do, they want to get. are just eager to ban things. whatj they don't do, they want to get rid of. they don't do, they want to get rid of im _ they don't do, they want to get rid of im told — they don't do, they want to get rid of. i'm told that _ they don't do, they want to get rid of. i'm told that richie _ they don't do, they want to get rid of. i'm told that richie sue - they don't do, they want to get rid of. i'm told that richie sue nacki of. i'm told that richie sue nack introduces— of. i'm told that richie sue nack introduces policy— of. i'm told that richie sue nack introduces policy because - of. i'm told that richie sue nack introduces policy because it- of. i'm told that richie sue nackl introduces policy because it holds really _ introduces policy because it holds really well, — introduces policy because it holds really well, basically _ introduces policy because it holds really well, basically with - really well, basically with conservative _ really well, basically with conservative voters - really well, basically with| conservative voters which really well, basically with - conservative voters which does not suggest _ conservative voters which does not suggest a — conservative voters which does not suggest a man— conservative voters which does not suggest a man of— conservative voters which does not suggest a man of high— conservative voters which does not suggest a man of high principle, i conservative voters which does notl suggest a man of high principle, but i suggest a man of high principle, but i guess— suggest a man of high principle, but i guess he _ suggest a man of high principle, but i guess he is— suggest a man of high principle, but i guess he is a — suggest a man of high principle, but i guess he is a politician. _ suggest a man of high principle, but i guess he is a politician. and - suggest a man of high principle, but i guess he is a politician. and he's. i guess he is a politician. and he's right, _ i guess he is a politician. and he's right, it _ i guess he is a politician. and he's right, it does _ i guess he is a politician. and he's right, it does poll— i guess he is a politician. and he's right, it does poll well, _ i guess he is a politician. and he's right, it does poll well, about- i guess he is a politician. and he's right, it does poll well, about two| right, it does poll well, about two thirds _ right, it does poll well, about two thirds of— right, it does poll well, about two thirds of people _ right, it does poll well, about two thirds of people seem _ right, it does poll well, about two thirds of people seem to- right, it does poll well, about two thirds of people seem to be - right, it does poll well, about two thirds of people seem to be in. thirds of people seem to be in favour— thirds of people seem to be in favour of— thirds of people seem to be in favour of it _ thirds of people seem to be in favour of it. there's _ thirds of people seem to be in favour of it. there's nothing ii thirds of people seem to be in. favour of it. there's nothing i can do to— favour of it. there's nothing i can do to stop — favour of it. there's nothing i can do to stop it. _ favour of it. there's nothing i can do to stop it, that's _ favour of it. there's nothing i can do to stop it, that's the - favour of it. there's nothing i can do to stop it, that's the way - do to stop it, that's the way society— do to stop it, that's the way society is— do to stop it, that's the way society is going. _ do to stop it, that's the way society is going. we - do to stop it, that's the way society is going. we will- do to stop it, that's the way - society is going. we will become more _ society is going. we will become more and — society is going. we will become more and more _ society is going. we will become more and more bigoted - society is going. we will become more and more bigoted and - more and more bigoted and intolerant. _ more and more bigoted and intolerant, so— more and more bigoted and intolerant, so i'm _ more and more bigoted and intolerant, so i'm not- more and more bigoted and intolerant, so i'm not going| more and more bigoted and . intolerant, so i'm not going to more and more bigoted and - intolerant, so i'm not going to give myself— intolerant, so i'm not going to give myself a _ intolerant, so i'm not going to give myself a mental— intolerant, so i'm not going to give myself a mental health _ intolerant, so i'm not going to give myself a mental health problems i myself a mental health problems worrying — myself a mental health problems worrying about _ myself a mental health problems worrying about it. _ myself a mental health problems worrying about it. but _ myself a mental health problems worrying about it. but if- myself a mental health problems worrying about it. but if people i worrying about it. but if people think— worrying about it. but if people think they— worrying about it. but if people think they are _ worrying about it. but if people think they are somehow- worrying about it. but if people think they are somehow going i worrying about it. but if people i think they are somehow going to worrying about it. but if people - think they are somehow going to save money, _ think they are somehow going to save money, the _ think they are somehow going to save money, the economics _ think they are somehow going to save money, the economics of— think they are somehow going to save money, the economics of this - think they are somehow going to save money, the economics of this do- think they are somehow going to save money, the economics of this do not. money, the economics of this do not stand _ money, the economics of this do not stand up _ money, the economics of this do not stand up. smokers _ money, the economics of this do not stand up. smokers more _ money, the economics of this do not stand up. smokers more than - money, the economics of this do not stand up. smokers more than coverl stand up. smokers more than cover any costs— stand up. smokers more than cover any costs associated, _ stand up. smokers more than cover any costs associated, so _ stand up. smokers more than cover any costs associated, so if- stand up. smokers more than cover any costs associated, so if any- any costs associated, so if any nonsmokers _ any costs associated, so if any nonsmokers are _ any costs associated, so if any

nonsmokers are out _ any costs associated, so if any nonsmokers are out there - any costs associated, so if any- nonsmokers are out there thinking this is— nonsmokers are out there thinking this is going — nonsmokers are out there thinking this is going to— nonsmokers are out there thinking this is going to mean— nonsmokers are out there thinking this is going to mean they- nonsmokers are out there thinking this is going to mean they pay- nonsmokers are out there thinkingj this is going to mean they pay less tax, this is going to mean they pay less tax. they— this is going to mean they pay less tax. they are — this is going to mean they pay less tax, they are completely— this is going to mean they pay less tax, they are completely wrong. i this is going to mean they pay less. tax, they are completely wrong. they will be _ tax, they are completely wrong. they will be paying — tax, they are completely wrong. they will be paying more _ tax, they are completely wrong. they will be paying more tax _ tax, they are completely wrong. they will be paying more tax because - tax, they are completely wrong. they will be paying more tax because they| will be paying more tax because they are currently— will be paying more tax because they are currently being _ will be paying more tax because they are currently being subsidised - will be paying more tax because they are currently being subsidised by- are currently being subsidised by smokers — are currently being subsidised by smokers apart— are currently being subsidised by smokers. apart from _ are currently being subsidised by smokers. apart from that, - are currently being subsidised by smokers. apart from that, i- are currently being subsidised by smokers. apart from that, i no i smokers. apart from that, i no longer— smokers. apart from that, i no longer care _ smokers. apart from that, i no longer care-— smokers. apart from that, i no lonuercare. . �* , longer care. christopher. don't stop carina. longer care. christopher. don't stop caring- you — longer care. christopher. don't stop caring. you sound _ longer care. christopher. don't stop caring. you sound disillusioned. - caring. you sound disillusioned. your whole demeanour, your body language is like oh, dear. like you have been banging your head against a brick wall forfreedom. and this isjust another brick a brick wall forfreedom. and this is just another brick in that war. as it were, yes. i know i have been up as it were, yes. i know i have been up against — as it were, yes. i know i have been up against it— as it were, yes. i know i have been up against it for— as it were, yes. i know i have been up against it for a _ as it were, yes. i know i have been up against it for a long _ as it were, yes. i know i have been up against it for a long time - as it were, yes. i know i have been up against it for a long time and i up against it for a long time and personally— up against it for a long time and personally i _ up against it for a long time and personally i think— up against it for a long time and personally i think it _ up against it for a long time and personally i think it is _ up against it for a long time and personally i think it is an- personally i think it is an important _ personally i think it is an important issue. - personally i think it is an important issue. a- personally i think it is an. important issue. a slippery personally i think it is an- important issue. a slippery slope personally i think it is an— important issue. a slippery slope is an important— important issue. a slippery slope is an important issue, _ important issue. a slippery slope is an important issue, and _ important issue. a slippery slope is an important issue, and i— important issue. a slippery slope is an important issue, and i think- important issue. a slippery slope is an important issue, and i think it. an important issue, and i think it exists _ an important issue, and i think it exists i— an important issue, and i think it exists i have _ an important issue, and i think it exists. i have spent _ an important issue, and i think it exists. i have spent many- an important issue, and i think it exists. i have spent many years. exists. i have spent many years debating — exists. i have spent many years debating these _ exists. i have spent many years debating these issues - exists. i have spent many years debating these issues with - exists. i have spent many years debating these issues with anti| debating these issues with anti smoking — debating these issues with anti smoking groups _ debating these issues with anti smoking groups who _ debating these issues with anti smoking groups who swear - debating these issues with anti smoking groups who swear onl debating these issues with antil smoking groups who swear on a debating these issues with anti - smoking groups who swear on a stack of bibles— smoking groups who swear on a stack of bibles they — smoking groups who swear on a stack of bibles they are _ smoking groups who swear on a stack of bibles they are not _ smoking groups who swear on a stack of bibles they are not interested - smoking groups who swear on a stack of bibles they are not interested in i of bibles they are not interested in prohibition, — of bibles they are not interested in prohibition, it— of bibles they are not interested in prohibition, it is _ of bibles they are not interested in prohibition, it is about _ of bibles they are not interested in prohibition, it is about protecting i prohibition, it is about protecting children. — prohibition, it is about protecting children. but— prohibition, it is about protecting children, but the _ prohibition, it is about protecting children, but the day— prohibition, it is about protecting children, but the day that - children, but the day that prohibition— children, but the day that prohibition is— children, but the day that prohibition is effectively. prohibition is effectively announced, _ prohibition is effectively announced, which- prohibition is effectively announced, which is- prohibition is effectively. announced, which is what prohibition is effectively— announced, which is what happened yesterday. — announced, which is what happened yesterday. i— announced, which is what happened yesterday, i haven't— announced, which is what happened yesterday, i haven't seen— announced, which is what happened yesterday, i haven't seen a - announced, which is what happened yesterday, i haven't seen a single i yesterday, i haven't seen a single public— yesterday, i haven't seen a single

public health _ yesterday, i haven't seen a single public health person _ yesterday, i haven't seen a single public health person come - yesterday, i haven't seen a single public health person come out. yesterday, i haven't seen a singlei public health person come out and say anything. _ public health person come out and sayanything. biot— public health person come out and say anything-— say anything. not a single one. i will be back— say anything. not a single one. i will be back with _ say anything. not a single one. i will be back with more _ say anything. not a single one. i will be back with more callers. i will be back with more callers. justine, interesting what we heard from sandra in petersfield, because you work in retail, don�*t you? welcome to the programme. goad welcome to the programme. good morninu. welcome to the programme. good morning- for— welcome to the programme. good morning. for me _ welcome to the programme. good morning. for me and _ welcome to the programme. good morning. for me and my _ welcome to the programme. (13mg. morning. for me and my colleagues and we have been talking about this for years. you get so much backlash asking for id that we have always said that any age restriction product should be requiring id, no matter the age, because it would stop so much abuse to the retail staff. , .

stop so much abuse to the retail staff. , , �* , ., stop so much abuse to the retail staff. , �* ,., , staff. justine in bristol, hopefully ou are staff. justine in bristol, hopefully you are still _ staff. justine in bristol, hopefully you are still thriving _ staff. justine in bristol, hopefully you are still thriving in _ staff. justine in bristol, hopefully you are still thriving in 2043, - staff. justine in bristol, hopefully you are still thriving in 2043, but| you are still thriving in 20a3, but if you are 35 you won�*t be able to buy a packet of 20, and if somebody is in their mid—30s, or passes for being in their mid—30s, you will have to ask them for id. how would you feel about that? i have to ask them for id. how would you feel about that?— you feel about that? i think that an bod , you feel about that? i think that anybody. no _ you feel about that? i think that anybody, no matter— you feel about that? i think that anybody, no matter your - you feel about that? i think that anybody, no matter your age, i you feel about that? i think that - anybody, no matter your age, should show id for any age restricted product. it would take out all the abuse. everybody would know that if you buy cigarettes, you have to show id. i you buy cigarettes, you have to show id. .., , , ., . , id. i completely agree with justine. and actually. _ id. i completely agree with justine. and actually. it _ id. i completely agree with justine. and actually, it is _ id. i completely agree with justine. and actually, it is the _ id. i completely agree with justine. and actually, it is the law— id. i completely agree with justine. and actually, it is the law in - and actually, it is the law in scotland _ and actually, it is the law in scotland already, it is called mandatory age verification. at the moment— mandatory age verification. at the moment it — mandatory age verification. at the moment it isjust a voluntary scheme _ moment it isjust a voluntary scheme. and that means you can be exposed _ scheme. and that means you can be exposed to— scheme. and that means you can be exposed to abuse. what we need is a law that _ exposed to abuse. what we need is a law that supports retailers, so when

they ask, _ law that supports retailers, so when they ask, they say i have to do this. _ they ask, they say i have to do this. it — they ask, they say i have to do this. it is — they ask, they say i have to do this, it is the law and i do it to everyone. _ this, it is the law and i do it to everyone. it _ this, it is the law and i do it to everyone, it is not personal. we want _ everyone, it is not personal. we want to — everyone, it is not personal. we want to make sure that this is something retailers can enforce. small— something retailers can enforce. small shopkeepers have a difficult enough _ small shopkeepers have a difficult enough time and we don't want to make _ enough time and we don't want to make it _ enough time and we don't want to make it more difficult. we did a big survey— make it more difficult. we did a big survey of— make it more difficult. we did a big survey of retailers, and retailers supported — survey of retailers, and retailers supported raising the age of sail, and retailers actually said that the tobacco _ and retailers actually said that the tobacco measures that had come in, which _ tobacco measures that had come in, which the _ tobacco measures that had come in, which the tobacco industry wound up to say, _ which the tobacco industry wound up to say. you _ which the tobacco industry wound up to say, you know, putting cigarettes out of— to say, you know, putting cigarettes out of sight — to say, you know, putting cigarettes out of sight putting cigarettes in plain— out of sight putting cigarettes in plain packaging would cause you real problems. _ plain packaging would cause you real problems, what they told us is, once this legislation came into effect, it did _ this legislation came into effect, it did not — this legislation came into effect, it did not have an impact on them. sol it did not have an impact on them. so i think— it did not have an impact on them. so i think it's — it did not have an impact on them. so i think it's important. also, retailers — so i think it's important. also, retailers only make a tiny amount of profit _ retailers only make a tiny amount of profit from _ retailers only make a tiny amount of profit from selling cigarettes. people — profit from selling cigarettes. people have more money to spend on other— people have more money to spend on other things and retailers would then make bigger profits. justine, i was 'ust then make bigger profits. justine, i was just thinking _ then make bigger profits. justine, i was just thinking that _ then make bigger profits. justine, i was just thinking that when - then make bigger profits. justine, i

was just thinking that when i - was just thinking that when i ordered a bottle of booze from amazon they ask for my id at the door, and the first time it happened i thought, are you serious question mark but then i got it. to check i was over 18. mark but then i got it. to check i was over 1&— mark but then i got it. to check i was over 18. quite flattering. yes, sometimes _ was over 18. quite flattering. yes, sometimes initialled _ was over 18. quite flattering. yes, sometimes initialled reactions - was over 18. quite flattering. yes, | sometimes initialled reactions are, are you kidding me? we do get that. "are you kidding me, i�*m old enough?" . and i�*m like, that�*s the law, you need to show id. we get people storming out. picking something off the shop floor and throwing it at you. slamming the door on the way out. i mean, people can be quite aggressive when you ask them for id. i can be quite aggressive when you ask them for id-— them for id. i 'ust want to nail something. _ them for id. i just want to nail something. that _ them for id. i just want to nail something. that is _ them for id. i just want to nail something. that is quite - them for id. i just want to nail something. that is quite an i something. that is quite an experience. i�*m sure it will be one that will be recognised by many people who work in retail who are listening or watching. deborah, people who work in retail who are listening orwatching. deborah, i�*m going to speak tojules in dorset

and a second, and i thank you so much for getting in touch. i know you have had a terrible health time because of passive smoking and we will come to you in a second. deborah, sometimes you get these stories and announcements and you have to see the wood for the trees. you have to stand back. 20a3, 20 years to go, it is not very long. if you are 36, you will be able to buy a packet of cigarettes. if you are 35, you won�*t. is this not absolutely nuts? i 35, you won't. is this not absolutely nuts?- 35, you won't. is this not absolutely nuts? 35, you won't. is this not absolutel nuts? ., �* ~ , absolutely nuts? i don't think it is because it is _ absolutely nuts? i don't think it is because it is about _ absolutely nuts? i don't think it is because it is about a _ absolutely nuts? i don't think it is because it is about a culture - because it is about a culture change. _ because it is about a culture change, and it is a culture change which _ change, and it is a culture change which people want to see. by that time. _ which people want to see. by that time, smoking will be obsolete anyway— time, smoking will be obsolete anyway because there are

alternatives. the cigarettes, nicotine _ alternatives. the cigarettes, nicotine patches, and other things for those — nicotine patches, and other things for those who feel they really need to use _ for those who feel they really need to use nicotine. and i know chris snowdon— to use nicotine. and i know chris snowdon vapes, so he understands that. _ snowdon vapes, so he understands that. i_ snowdon vapes, so he understands that. idon't— snowdon vapes, so he understands that. i don't want to see people not being _ that. i don't want to see people not being able — that. i don't want to see people not being able to have access to something they need to, but cigarettes kill you. it is the smoke that kills— cigarettes kill you. it is the smoke that kills you, the nicotine is why people _ that kills you, the nicotine is why people smoke. we need to see this as part of— people smoke. we need to see this as part of a _ people smoke. we need to see this as part of a broader movement, and a movement— part of a broader movement, and a movement the public want and the public— movement the public want and the public support. everyone recognises that this _ public support. everyone recognises that this is — public support. everyone recognises that this is not something that we want _ that this is not something that we want on _ that this is not something that we want on our children. iam i am told you were vaping. yes. another issue, _ i am told you were vaping. yes. another issue, isn't _ i am told you were vaping. yes. another issue, isn't it? - i am told you were vaping. .23 another issue, isn't it? vaping and another issue, isn�*t it? vaping and kids, we have to clamp down on that. one banner take time. that was announced yesterday more or less as

well. i believe deborah is against that. there are serious consequences. people go on about underage... it has been illegal to sell turn tickets, we do not enforce that, a lot of them are illegal and unregulated in the first place. the government is not doing enough, and trading standards. you have more than1 million adult trading standards. you have more than 1 million adult users of disposable vapes, some would go back to smoking, if they were old enough, in due course. it is another panic measure. the first instinct of government is to prohibit and ask questions later.— questions later. thank you very much. questions later. thank you very much- what — questions later. thank you very much. what happened? - questions later. thank you very much. what happened? good i questions later. thank you very - much. what happened? good morning. i aoloaise. much. what happened? good morning. i apologise- the — much. what happened? good morning. i apologise- the only _ much. what happened? good morning. i apologise. the only reason _ much. what happened? good morning. i apologise. the only reason i _ much. what happened? good morning. i apologise. the only reason i knew - apologise. the only reason i knew you were — apologise. the only reason i knew you were doing this debate is because _ you were doing this debate is because i_ you were doing this debate is because i am on my way to a hospital appointment, i because i am on my way to a hospital appointment, lam normally because i am on my way to a hospital appointment, i am normally in work by this— appointment, i am normally in work by this time — appointment, i am normally in work by this time and would have no idea what was _

by this time and would have no idea what was going on, i saw you on a screen _ what was going on, i saw you on a screen and — what was going on, i saw you on a screen and i— what was going on, i saw you on a screen and i felt i needed to contribute.— screen and i felt i needed to contribute._ i - screen and i felt i needed to contribute._ i am| screen and i felt i needed to - contribute._ i am doing contribute. thank you. i am doing that somewhat _ contribute. thank you. i am doing that somewhat naively _ contribute. thank you. i am doing that somewhat naively because i l contribute. thank you. i am doing i that somewhat naively because i am not a _ that somewhat naively because i am not a scientist, i don't have lots of facts — not a scientist, i don't have lots of facts to— not a scientist, i don't have lots of facts to hand, but my overriding view as— of facts to hand, but my overriding view as we — of facts to hand, but my overriding view as we were not designed to pump stuff into— view as we were not designed to pump stuff into our— view as we were not designed to pump stuff into our lungs. our lungs are designed — stuff into our lungs. our lungs are designed to enable us to breathe to live and _ designed to enable us to breathe to live and that is what they are for. for me. — live and that is what they are for. for me. it— live and that is what they are for. for me, it does not matter whether it is smoking, vaping, we were not designed _ it is smoking, vaping, we were not designed to— it is smoking, vaping, we were not designed to do that. i have lost... i designed to do that. i have lost... i have _ designed to do that. i have lost... i have been— designed to do that. i have lost... i have been an avid anti—smoker all of my— i have been an avid anti—smoker all of my life _ i have been an avid anti—smoker all of my life partly because of the stench — of my life partly because of the stench from my father who was a chain _ stench from my father who was a chain smoker all day long. it used to turn— chain smoker all day long. it used to turn my— chain smoker all day long. it used to turn my stomach. in fact, both of my boys— to turn my stomach. in fact, both of my boys have smoked and i found it completely— my boys have smoked and i found it completely appalling because a couple — completely appalling because a couple of years ago i lost my left lun- couple of years ago i lost my left lung and — couple of years ago i lost my left lung and my right lung is questionable, hence i am on my way for a scan _ questionable, hence i am on my way for a scan appointment today.

because — for a scan appointment today. because it has been what... the diagnosis — because it has been what... the diagnosis was smoking—related cancer. — diagnosis was smoking—related cancer. i— diagnosis was smoking—related cancer. i have never even held a cigarette — cancer. i have never even held a cigarette in _ cancer. i have never even held a cigarette in my hand ever. so that is completely down to people around me smoking. it does still fill me with horror. you walk down the street — with horror. you walk down the street sometimes and someone will blow out— street sometimes and someone will blow out the cigarette smoke. i almost — blow out the cigarette smoke. i almost have to duck when i see it so i am almost have to duck when i see it so i am not _ almost have to duck when i see it so i am not inhaling it. almost have to duck when i see it so lam not inhaling it. because almost have to duck when i see it so i am not inhaling it. because of the vulnerability now, my health, i am still having — vulnerability now, my health, i am still having to exercise severe caution — still having to exercise severe caution around covid, i go around in a mask. _ caution around covid, i go around in a mask. i_ caution around covid, i go around in a mask, i don't socialise, i keep a mask, idon't socialise, i keep myself— a mask, i don't socialise, i keep myself at — a mask, i don't socialise, i keep myself at home most of the time, and it is down— myself at home most of the time, and it is down to _ myself at home most of the time, and it is down to smoking—related cancer. — it is down to smoking—related cancer. i_ it is down to smoking—related cancer. i hope the scan goes well, certainly— cancer. i hope the scan goes well, certainly been through loads. thank you. certainly been through loads. thank ou. ~ ., ., certainly been through loads. thank ou. . ., ., ., certainly been through loads. thank ou. ., ., ., certainly been through loads. thank ou. . ., ., ., i certainly been through loads. thank| you-— i think you. what do we need to do? i think it should have _

you. what do we need to do? i think it should have been _ you. what do we need to do? i think it should have been banned - you. what do we need to do? i think it should have been banned years i it should have been banned years a-o. it should have been banned years ago. i_ it should have been banned years ago. i am — it should have been banned years ago. i am very grateful to think of it being _ ago. i am very grateful to think of it being banned. is there a lot of difference — it being banned. is there a lot of difference between a 35—year—old not... _ difference between a 35—year—old not... sorry, the other way round, tell me _ not... sorry, the other way round, tell me the — not... sorry, the other way round, tell me the way around? 35-year-old cannot buy it. — tell me the way around? 35-year-old cannot buy it, 36-year-old _ tell me the way around? 35-year-old cannot buy it, 36-year-old will- tell me the way around? 35-year-old cannot buy it, 36-year-old will be . cannot buy it, 36—year—old will be able to in 20a3, some people pointing out that absurdity. able to in 2043, some people pointing out that absurdity. from my ersonal pointing out that absurdity. from my personal opinion. — pointing out that absurdity. from my personal opinion, that _ pointing out that absurdity. from my personal opinion, that is _ pointing out that absurdity. from my personal opinion, that is absurd. - pointing out that absurdity. from my personal opinion, that is absurd. is i personal opinion, that is absurd. is there _ personal opinion, that is absurd. is there a _ personal opinion, that is absurd. is there a difference between a 35—year—old and 36—year—old? so, 35-year-old and 36-year-old? so, what do we — 35—year—old and 36—year—old? sr, what do we need to do? go further? quicker? i what do we need to do? go further? quicker? ., ., ~ what do we need to do? go further? quicker? ., ., ,, ., ., quicker? i would have liked to have seen it banned _ quicker? i would have liked to have seen it banned years _ quicker? i would have liked to have seen it banned years ago. - quicker? i would have liked to have seen it banned years ago. decadesl seen it banned years ago. decades a-o. seen it banned years ago. decades ago. but— seen it banned years ago. decades ago. but i— seen it banned years ago. decades ago. but i don't know... i hold my hands _ ago. but i don't know... i hold my hands up. — ago. but i don't know... i hold my hands up. i— ago. but i don't know... i hold my hands up, i don't know how to manage it, hands up, i don't know how to manage it. i'm _ hands up, i don't know how to manage it. i'm glad _ hands up, i don't know how to manage it, i'm glad we seem to be going that way— it, i'm glad we seem to be going that way and lives will be saved by that. _ that way and lives will be saved by that. a _ that way and lives will be saved by that. a lot — that way and lives will be saved by that. a lot of nhs time and resources will be freed up. but how

you go— resources will be freed up. but how you go about it, crikey, it is a book— you go about it, crikey, it is a book -- — you go about it, crikey, it is a book —— bogmire. you go about it, crikey, it is a book -- bogmire.— you go about it, crikey, it is a book -- bogmire. thank you for caettin book -- bogmire. thank you for getting in _ book -- bogmire. thank you for getting in touch. _ book -- bogmire. thank you for getting in touch. great - book -- bogmire. thank you for getting in touch. great word. i book -- bogmire. thank you for i getting in touch. great word. take care. you know about rishi sunak�*s measures, does it go far enough? is this as christopher snowdon has said hideously illiberal? what do you think? get in touch. and here is the news from deena campbell. rishi sunak insists his plan to phase out smoking is the right thing to do, describing it as the biggest public health intervention in a generation. during his speech at

the conservative conference, he said he wants to raise the legal age for buying cigarettes by one year, every year. the prime minister also confirmed he�*ll scrap the northern leg of the proposed hs2 rail line. figures show that rents in britain have reached record levels. the property website rightmove says the average monthly rent in london has increased by 12%, compared with last year, to over £2,600, and there�*s been a 10% rise elsewhere in britain. the uk�*s cloud computing market is to face a competition inquiry over concerns it�*s being dominated by amazon and microsoft. media watchdog ofcom says the two make up 70—80% of the sector in the uk, while closest rival google has 5—10%. five people have been arrested afterjust stop oil protesters halted a west end performance of les miserables. a video shared by the group showed its members storming the stage and asking the audience tojoin the rebellion. shourjo sarkar has the sport. in the opening match of the cricket world cup

in ahmedabad, new zealand have won the toss, and put england into bat. they�*ve just started their innings. reigning world champions england are without ben stokes, who is nursing a hip problem. harry brook has taken his place in the team. you can listen to ball—by—ball commentary on 5 sports extra right now — pick it up through bbc sounds. newcastle manager eddie howe says he hopes his team�*s fantastic result in the champions league last night gives them inner belief that they can be successful in the competition. newcastle thumped paris st—germain a—1 in their group match, in what was the first champions league fixture at stjames�* park for 20 years. meanwhile, defending champions manchester city needed two late goals to win 3—1 away at rb leipzig. for celtic, though, it�*s two defeats in two, after they were beaten 2—1 at home by lazio. and american teenager coco gauff has beaten veronika kudermetova in straight sets to reach the quarterfinals of the china open tennis. france�*s caroline garcia is also through.

at ten o�*clock, viewers on bbc two and bbc news will be able to follow the latest national and international stories. on the radio, online, it is another important one, he kept us waiting, but now we know, rishi sunak confirmed yesterday the northern leg of the hs2 project is being bend. —— being binned. the

other stuff, the 36 billion, other improvements, local transport, trams, buses, rail, roads, redirecting the spiralling costs to build better daily connections that you depend on. new railway stations, transport hubs, electrified lines, investment in roads, resurfacing, filling the potholes on the tram systems for leeds, a long list, it is a big backlash, as there would be, but labour say, is a big backlash, as there would be, but laboursay, ok, let�*s look at the numbers and we will see. the plan is being put in place with the money that has been taken from hs2, will those plans help you? that is at 10am, get in touch now.

this is going... incremental plan announced yesterday by rishi sunak, is it enough? should it be moved more rapidly towards a complete ban? provocative question. far be it from us to ask one... some of the absurdities of a 60—year—old in times to come being asked for id, 61—year—old is not. david, newcastle, joanna and peter burrow, hello. simon clark, director of smokers lobby group forest largely funded by the tobacco industry. what do you think, karima?— funded by the tobacco industry. what do you think, karima? pleasure to be with ou. i

do you think, karima? pleasure to be with you- i am _ do you think, karima? pleasure to be with you. i am so _ do you think, karima? pleasure to be with you. i am so excited. _ do you think, karima? pleasure to be with you. i am so excited. when - do you think, karima? pleasure to be with you. i am so excited. when i - with you. i am so excited. when i heard rishi sunakfinance banning smoking, i was elated. i heard rishi sunakfinance banning smoking, iwas elated. i have heard rishi sunakfinance banning smoking, i was elated. i have been smoking, i was elated. i have been smoking for 38 years of my life. i got cancer, cancer of the womb and lungs. i gave up smoking, my cancer is in remission, i have neverfelt more healthy, i can run, jump, skip, ican do more healthy, i can run, jump, skip, i can do the splits. more healthy, i can run, “ump, skip, i can do the splitsh more healthy, i can run, “ump, skip, i can do the splits.�* i - more healthy, i can run, “ump, skip, i can do the splits.�* i am - i can do the splits. brilliant. i am elated, i can do the splits. brilliant. i am elated. happy- — i can do the splits. brilliant. i am elated. happy- i— i can do the splits. brilliant. i am elated, happy. iwalked- i can do the splits. brilliant. i am elated, happy. i walked on - i can do the splits. brilliant. i am elated, happy. i walked on the i elated, happy. i walked on the street, i see young people, as young as 12, smoking, killing themselves. they have no clue what they are doing to their body, destroying themselves. there are easier ways to kill yourself in this world, easier ways. kill yourself in this world, easier wa s. . . " . kill yourself in this world, easier wa s. ,, ~ ways. goodness me. i think it is a aood ways. goodness me. i think it is a good idea. _ ways. goodness me. i think it is a good idea, increasing _ ways. goodness me. i think it is a good idea, increasing it— ways. goodness me. i think it is a good idea, increasing it by - ways. goodness me. i think it is a good idea, increasing it by a - ways. goodness me. i think it is aj good idea, increasing it by a year, year on year? fit]!!! good idea, increasing it by a year, year on year?— year on year? all i can say to everybody — year on year? all i can say to everybody out _ year on year? all i can say to everybody out there, - year on year? all i can say to j everybody out there, please, year on year? all i can say to i everybody out there, please, if year on year? all i can say to - everybody out there, please, if you can, do everything in your power, stop smoking today, you will see

your health will become better straightaway, he will learn the benefits of calling it the demon tobacco, it is the devil.- tobacco, it is the devil. yeah, smoking _ tobacco, it is the devil. yeah, smoking is — tobacco, it is the devil. yeah, smoking is satanic. _ tobacco, it is the devil. yeah, smoking is satanic. within . tobacco, it is the devil. yeah, smoking is satanic. within 30 tobacco, it is the devil. yeah, - smoking is satanic. within 30 years, half the uk population will not be able to buy cigarettes, do you think that government should go further? yeah, listen, ifi that government should go further? yeah, listen, if i had my way, i would ban cigarettes, alcohol, gambling, i would get rid of every satanic nasty thing as human beings... you understand? all of these things, they cause nothing but misery to us people. we are slaves to the rhythm. misery to us people. we are slaves to the rhythm-— misery to us people. we are slaves to the rh hm. ~ . , to the rhythm. what else can we ban? no one is going _ to the rhythm. what else can we ban? no one is going to _ to the rhythm. what else can we ban? no one is going to deprive _ to the rhythm. what else can we ban? no one is going to deprive me - to the rhythm. what else can we ban? no one is going to deprive me of - to the rhythm. what else can we ban? no one is going to deprive me of my i no one is going to deprive me of my dram. ., .. no one is going to deprive me of my dram. ., . ., ., no one is going to deprive me of my dram. ., ., ., ., .,

dram. you are allowed a little ti le, dram. you are allowed a little tipple. how — dram. you are allowed a little tipple, how about _ dram. you are allowed a little tipple, how about that? - dram. you are allowed a little tipple, how about that? great dram. you are allowed a little i tipple, how about that? great to hear you are in such good health as well. . .. hear you are in such good health as well. . ., ,., ., ., well. joanna in peterborough, what do ou well. joanna in peterborough, what do you think _ well. joanna in peterborough, what do you think about _ well. joanna in peterborough, what do you think about this? _ well. joanna in peterborough, what do you think about this? i - well. joanna in peterborough, what do you think about this? i am - well. joanna in peterborough, what do you think about this? i am 41, i do you think about this? i am 41, smokin: do you think about this? i am 41, smoking since — do you think about this? i am 41, smoking since i _ do you think about this? i am 41, smoking since i was _ do you think about this? i am 41, smoking since i was 14, - do you think about this? i am 41, smoking since i was 14, i - do you think about this? i am 41, smoking since i was 14, i have i do you think about this? i am 41, i smoking since i was 14, i have tried so many— smoking since i was 14, i have tried so many times to quit smoking, the only way— so many times to quit smoking, the only way i_ so many times to quit smoking, the only way i feel... i don't have the willpower. — only way i feel... i don't have the willpower. the only way i will be able to _ willpower. the only way i will be able to do — willpower. the only way i will be able to do it as if you ban it. you have _ able to do it as if you ban it. you have to — able to do it as if you ban it. you have to ban _ able to do it as if you ban it. you have to ban it so it is not easily available — have to ban it so it is not easily available to any of us. and it is illegal. — available to any of us. and it is illegal. most of us would not break the law. _ illegal. most of us would not break the law. we would have no choice but to stop. _ the law. we would have no choice but to stop. you — the law. we would have no choice but to stop. you have to stop it.— to stop. you have to stop it. simon clark, to stop. you have to stop it. simon clark. speak _ to stop. you have to stop it. simon clark. speak to _ to stop. you have to stop it. simon clark, speak to joanna, _ to stop. you have to stop it. simon clark, speak to joanna, director i to stop. you have to stop it. simon clark, speak to joanna, director of| clark, speak tojoanna, director of the smokers lobby group, the only way to do it, to stop people, save money. simon, far away. way to do it, to stop people, save money. simon, faraway. i way to do it, to stop people, save money. simon, far away. i am way to do it, to stop people, save money. simon, far away.- money. simon, far away. i am a nonsmoker. _ money. simon, far away. i am a nonsmoker. i— money. simon, far away. i am a nonsmoker, i have _ money. simon, far away. i am a nonsmoker, i have never- money. simon, far away. i am a i nonsmoker, i have never smoked, i nonsmoker, i have neversmoked, i run a lobby group defending people who choose to smoke. i am sorry, but i don�*t have a lot of sympathy for

your argument because people have free will and i know some people find it difficult to give up smoking but there are millions upon millions of people who have given up. for some people, it is very difficult. other people give up overnight. should people have free will to take drugs? _ should people have free will to take drugs? ht_ should people have free will to take dru:s? �* ., ., ., ,, drugs? at the moment, we are talking about a legal— drugs? at the moment, we are talking about a legal drug. _ drugs? at the moment, we are talking about a legal drug. make _ drugs? at the moment, we are talking about a legal drug. make tobacco i about a legal drug. make tobacco ille . al, about a legal drug. make tobacco illeual, it about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal. it is _ about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal, it is not _ about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal, it is not free _ about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal, it is not free will, - about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal, it is not free will, it i about a legal drug. make tobacco illegal, it is not free will, it is i illegal, it is not free will, it is illegal. — illegal, it is not free will, it is illeaal. .. . illegal, it is not free will, it is illeaal. . , ., ., illegal. that is true. i am arguing auainst illegal. that is true. i am arguing against making — illegal. that is true. i am arguing against making tobacco - illegal. that is true. i am arguing against making tobacco illegal. against making tobacco illegal because i have met many people over the years, one of the reasons i do the years, one of the reasons i do the job the years, one of the reasons i do thejob i do because i have met people who get a great deal of enjoyment and pleasure from smoking, they know about the health risks, they know about the health risks, they are not stupid. they put the pleasure they get above the health risk. that is what we are allowed to do in a free society. i am overweight, probably morbidly obese. it is not my choice, i would like to lose weight, but i don�*t want the government banning things to force

me to lose weight. we seem to have given up on the idea of personal responsibility. we will have a personal response ability for our own health. we do not need to... to nanny us. as nicky has pointed out, the ludicrous policy which is a cynical pre—election stunt by the prime minister, this will create the ludicrous situation in ten years�* time where a 29—year—old will not be able to buy cigarettes legally, but able to buy cigarettes legally, but a 30—year—old will be able to. i don't agree with the age every year, that is— don't agree with the age every year, that isjust _ don't agree with the age every year, that isjust stupid. like you say, 29 cannes. _ that isjust stupid. like you say, 29 cannes, 30—year—old can't... —— 29-year-old — 29 cannes, 30—year—old can't... —— 29—year—old. we'll have to take response — 29—year—old. we'll have to take response military, iagree, but smoking... _ response military, iagree, but smoking... what about the nonsmoker i smoking... what about the nonsmoker i stand _ smoking... what about the nonsmoker i stand next— smoking... what about the nonsmoker i stand next to? a whole range of reasons _ i stand next to? a whole range of reasons not — i stand next to? a whole range of reasons not to have cigarettes allowed. — reasons not to have cigarettes allowed. i_ reasons not to have cigarettes allowed. i am struggling. reasons not to have cigarettes allowed. lam struggling. but

reasons not to have cigarettes allowed. i am struggling. but there is a whole — allowed. i am struggling. but there is a whole host of reasons for their not to _ is a whole host of reasons for their not to be _ is a whole host of reasons for their not to be cigarettes in the world, really _ not to be cigarettes in the world, really. take everything into account. _ really. take everything into account. . ., ., really. take everything into account. ,, ., ., really. take everything into account. . ., ., . account. simon, hold back, nina in glasaow account. simon, hold back, nina in glasgow coming — account. simon, hold back, nina in glasgow coming up, _ account. simon, hold back, nina in glasgow coming up, still— account. simon, hold back, nina in glasgow coming up, still got i account. simon, hold back, nina in glasgow coming up, still got the i glasgow coming up, still got the wonderful karima, and malcolm clarke from cancer research uk. nina, freedom, is it freedom, mel gibson, very fine portrayal? freedom, is it what it is about for you?— very fine portrayal? freedom, is it what it is about for you? come on... that is not — what it is about for you? come on... that is not a — what it is about for you? come on... that is not a smoker's _ what it is about for you? come on... that is not a smoker's cough, i what it is about for you? come on... that is not a smoker's cough, bad i that is not a smoker�*s cough, bad line. malcolm clarke. we will get you back. malcolm clarke, should we be heading to a band? what do you talk up —— what you think about this prohibition? == talk up -- what you think about this prohibition?— prohibition? -- ban. the starting oint is prohibition? -- ban. the starting point is smoking _ prohibition? -- ban. the starting point is smoking is _ prohibition? -- ban. the starting point is smoking is the _ prohibition? -- ban. the starting point is smoking is the biggest i point is smoking is the biggest cause — point is smoking is the biggest cause of— point is smoking is the biggest cause of cancer—

point is smoking is the biggest cause of cancer and _ point is smoking is the biggest cause of cancer and the - point is smoking is the biggesti cause of cancer and the biggest cause _ cause of cancer and the biggest cause of— cause of cancer and the biggest cause of cancer— cause of cancer and the biggest cause of cancer has _ cause of cancer and the biggest cause of cancer has no - cause of cancer and the biggest cause of cancer has no place i cause of cancer and the biggest cause of cancer has no place in| cause of cancer and the biggest. cause of cancer has no place in our future _ cause of cancer has no place in our future we — cause of cancer has no place in our future we are _ cause of cancer has no place in our future. we are talking _ cause of cancer has no place in our future. we are talking about - future. we are talking about people's _ future. we are talking about people's lives. _ future. we are talking about people's lives, the - future. we are talking about people's lives, the loss i future. we are talking about people's lives, the loss of i future. we are talking about i people's lives, the loss of loved ones _ people's lives, the loss of loved ones to— people's lives, the loss of loved ones to smoking _ people's lives, the loss of loved ones to smoking related - people's lives, the loss of loved. ones to smoking related disease, and. _ ones to smoking related disease, and. yes. — ones to smoking related disease, and. yes. we _ ones to smoking related disease, and. yes. we are _ ones to smoking related disease, and, yes, we are also _ ones to smoking related disease, and, yes, we are also talking i ones to smoking related disease, i and, yes, we are also talking about the impact — and, yes, we are also talking about the impact of— and, yes, we are also talking about the impact of the _ and, yes, we are also talking about the impact of the smoking—relatedl the impact of the smoking—related disease _ the impact of the smoking—related disease on — the impact of the smoking—related disease on people's— the impact of the smoking—related disease on people's livelihoods, i disease on people's livelihoods, their— disease on people's livelihoods, their ability— disease on people's livelihoods, their ability to _ disease on people's livelihoods, their ability to work, _ disease on people's livelihoods, their ability to work, the - disease on people's livelihoods, i their ability to work, the economic impact _ their ability to work, the economic impact on — their ability to work, the economic impact on our— their ability to work, the economic impact on our society, _ their ability to work, the economic impact on our society, and - their ability to work, the economic impact on our society, and i- their ability to work, the economic impact on our society, and i thinkl impact on our society, and i think we have _ impact on our society, and i think we have to — impact on our society, and i think we have to get _ impact on our society, and i think we have to get to _ impact on our society, and i think we have to get to a _ impact on our society, and i think we have to get to a stage - impact on our society, and i think we have to get to a stage which i impact on our society, and i think. we have to get to a stage which this announcement _ we have to get to a stage which this announcement yesterday _ we have to get to a stage which this announcement yesterday does, i we have to get to a stage which this i announcement yesterday does, raising the age _ announcement yesterday does, raising the age of— announcement yesterday does, raising the age of sate — announcement yesterday does, raising the age of sate of— announcement yesterday does, raising the age of sale of tobacco _ announcement yesterday does, raising the age of sale of tobacco products, i the age of sale of tobacco products, criticat— the age of sale of tobacco products, critical step — the age of sale of tobacco products, critical step on — the age of sale of tobacco products, critical step on the _ the age of sale of tobacco products, critical step on the road _ the age of sale of tobacco products, critical step on the road to - critical step on the road to creating _ critical step on the road to creating the _ critical step on the road to creating the first—ever- critical step on the road to - creating the first—ever smoke—free generatioh — creating the first—ever smoke—free generatioh it— creating the first—ever smoke—free generation. it is _ creating the first—ever smoke—free generation. it is about _ creating the first—ever smoke—free generation. it is about the - generation. it is about the smoke-free _ generation. it is about the smoke—free generation, l generation. it is about the l smoke—free generation, our generation. it is about the - smoke—free generation, our young people _ smoke—free generation, our young pe0pte~ but — smoke—free generation, our young pe0pte. but as_ smoke—free generation, our young people. but as other _ smoke—free generation, our young people. but as other callers - smoke—free generation, our young people. but as other callers have i people. but as other callers have said, _ people. but as other callers have said. people _ people. but as other callers have said. pe0pte now— people. but as other callers have said, people now currently- people. but as other callers have i said, people now currently smoke, nine out _ said, people now currently smoke, hihe out of— said, people now currently smoke, nine out often— said, people now currently smoke, nine out of ten people _ said, people now currently smoke, nine out of ten people who - said, people now currently smoke, nine out of ten people who smokei nine out of ten people who smoke started _ nine out of ten people who smoke started before _ nine out of ten people who smoke started before they— nine out of ten people who smoke started before they were - nine out of ten people who smoke started before they were 21, - nine out of ten people who smoke started before they were 21, a - nine out of ten people who smoke started before they were 21, a lot| started before they were 21, a lot of people — started before they were 21, a lot of pe0pte want _ started before they were 21, a lot of people want to _ started before they were 21, a lot of people want to quit _ started before they were 21, a lot of people want to quit and - started before they were 21, a lot of people want to quit and i- started before they were 21, a lot of people want to quit and i have | of people want to quit and i have trouble _ of people want to quit and i have trouble quitting. _ of people want to quit and i have trouble quitting. yesterday, - of people want to quit and i have trouble quitting. yesterday, noti of people want to quit and i have i trouble quitting. yesterday, not in the big _ trouble quitting. yesterday, not in the big announcement, _ trouble quitting. yesterday, not in the big announcement, but- trouble quitting. yesterday, not in the big announcement, but in- trouble quitting. yesterday, not in

the big announcement, but in a i the big announcement, but in a press release _ the big announcement, but in a press release afterwards, _ the big announcement, but in a press release afterwards, rishi _ the big announcement, but in a press release afterwards, rishi sunak- the big announcement, but in a press release afterwards, rishi sunak and i release afterwards, rishi sunak and the government— release afterwards, rishi sunak and the government announced - release afterwards, rishi sunak and the government announced new- the government announced new important — the government announced new important funding— the government announced new important funding for— the government announced new important funding for smoking i important funding for smoking cessation _ important funding for smoking cessation services, _ important funding for smoking - cessation services, evidence—based smoking _ cessation services, evidence—based smoking cessation— cessation services, evidence—based smoking cessation services, - smoking cessation services, awareness _ smoking cessation services, awareness campaigns, - smoking cessation services, awareness campaigns, and| smoking cessation services, _ awareness campaigns, and enforcement of existing _ awareness campaigns, and enforcement of existing regulations _ awareness campaigns, and enforcement of existing regulations as _ awareness campaigns, and enforcement of existing regulations as well. - of existing regulations as well. these — of existing regulations as well. these are _ of existing regulations as well. these are the _ of existing regulations as well. these are the things _ of existing regulations as well. these are the things that - of existing regulations as well. these are the things that will. these are the things that will actually— these are the things that will actually help _ these are the things that will actually help people - these are the things that will actually help people right - these are the things that willl actually help people right now these are the things that will- actually help people right now to stop actually help people right now to st0p smoking, _ actually help people right now to stop smoking, stopping - actually help people right now to stop smoking, stopping smoking actually help people right now to - stop smoking, stopping smoking not only will— stop smoking, stopping smoking not only will then — stop smoking, stopping smoking not only will then reduce _ stop smoking, stopping smoking not only will then reduce people's - stop smoking, stopping smoking not only will then reduce people's risk. only will then reduce people's risk of getting — only will then reduce people's risk of getting cancer— only will then reduce people's risk of getting cancer but _ only will then reduce people's risk of getting cancer but 50 _ of getting cancer but 50 different... _ of getting cancer but 50 different... su- of getting cancer but 50 different... �* . , ,., , different... all absolutely true, how old are _ different... all absolutely true, how old are you, _ different... all absolutely true, how old are you, malcolm? - different... all absolutely true, how old are you, malcolm? i i different... all absolutely true, | how old are you, malcolm? i am different... all absolutely true, - how old are you, malcolm? i am in my 40s. you how old are you, malcolm? i am in my 405- you will — how old are you, malcolm? i am in my 40s. you will be _ how old are you, malcolm? i am in my 40s. you will be able _ how old are you, malcolm? i am in my 40s. you will be able to, _ how old are you, malcolm? i am in my 40s. you will be able to, let _ how old are you, malcolm? i am in my 40s. you will be able to, let me - how old are you, malcolm? i am in my 40s. you will be able to, let me do - 40s. you will be able to, let me do this calculation... _ 40s. you will be able to, let me do this calculation... it _ 40s. you will be able to, let me do this calculation... it will _ 40s. you will be able to, let me do this calculation... it will be - this calculation... it will be around about 2053 that he will not be able to buy cigarettes. let around about 2053 that he will not be able to buy cigarettes.- be able to buy cigarettes. let me ease our be able to buy cigarettes. let me ease your calculation, _ be able to buy cigarettes. let me ease your calculation, the - ease your calculation, the government— ease your calculation, the government itself- ease your calculation, the government itself has - ease your calculation, the i government itself has said ease your calculation, the - government itself has said we will need _ government itself has said we will need to— government itself has said we will need to get— government itself has said we will need to get to _ government itself has said we will need to get to a _ government itself has said we will need to get to a smoke—free - government itself has said we will need to get to a smoke—free uk . government itself has said we will| need to get to a smoke—free uk by 2030. _

need to get to a smoke—free uk by 2030. meaning— need to get to a smoke—free uk by 2030, meaning less _ need to get to a smoke—free uk by 2030, meaning less than - need to get to a smoke—free uk by 2030, meaning less than 5% - need to get to a smoke—free uk by 2030, meaning less than 5% of - need to get to a smoke—free uk by| 2030, meaning less than 5% of the population. — 2030, meaning less than 5% of the population. adult— 2030, meaning less than 5% of the population, adult population, - 2030, meaning less than 5% of the population, adult population, in . population, adult population, in england — population, adult population, in england smoke. _ population, adult population, in england smoke. we _ population, adult population, in england smoke. we are - population, adult population, in england smoke. we are a - population, adult population, in england smoke. we are a long i population, adult population, in i england smoke. we are a long way from _ england smoke. we are a long way from that— england smoke. we are a long way from that condition. _ england smoke. we are a long way from that condition. new - england smoke. we are a long way from that condition. new research| from that condition. new research published — from that condition. new research published by— from that condition. new research published by cancer— from that condition. new research published by cancer research - from that condition. new research published by cancer research uk. published by cancer research uk shows _ published by cancer research uk shows the — published by cancer research uk shows the most _ published by cancer research uk shows the most deprived - published by cancer research uk shows the most deprived groups| published by cancer research uk . shows the most deprived groups are even further — shows the most deprived groups are even further away, _ shows the most deprived groups are even further away, potentially - shows the most deprived groups are even further away, potentially 20 i even further away, potentially 20 plus years — even further away, potentially 20 plus years away _ even further away, potentially 20 plus years away a _ even further away, potentially 20 plus years away. a lot _ even further away, potentially 20 plus years away. a lot needs - even further away, potentially 20 plus years away. a lot needs to l even further away, potentially 20| plus years away. a lot needs to be done _ plus years away. a lot needs to be done now — plus years away. a lot needs to be done now to — plus years away. a lot needs to be done now to support _ plus years away. a lot needs to be done now to support people - plus years away. a lot needs to be done now to support people to - plus years away. a lot needs to be| done now to support people to quit smoking _ done now to support people to quit smoking yes. _ done now to support people to quit smoking. yes, this— done now to support people to quit smoking. yes, this is— done now to support people to quit smoking. yes, this is about - done now to support people to quiti smoking. yes, this is about making smoking _ smoking. yes, this is about making smoking over— smoking. yes, this is about making smoking over time _ smoking. yes, this is about making smoking over time less— smoking. yes, this is about making smoking over time less available, i smoking over time less available, less appealing _ smoking over time less available, less appealing to _ smoking over time less available, less appealing to people, - smoking over time less available, less appealing to people, so - smoking over time less available, less appealing to people, so that| less appealing to people, so that over time — less appealing to people, so that over time we _ less appealing to people, so that over time we get— less appealing to people, so that over time we get to _ less appealing to people, so that over time we get to a _ less appealing to people, so that over time we get to a situation . less appealing to people, so that . over time we get to a situation that overtime we get to a situation that fewer— over time we get to a situation that fewer and _ over time we get to a situation that fewer and fewer— over time we get to a situation that fewer and fewer people _ over time we get to a situation that fewer and fewer people smoke - over time we get to a situation that fewer and fewer people smoke and | fewer and fewer people smoke and that is— fewer and fewer people smoke and that is really— fewer and fewer people smoke and that is really important— fewer and fewer people smoke and that is really important for- fewer and fewer people smoke and that is really important for all- fewer and fewer people smoke and that is really important for all our. that is really important for all our lives _ that is really important for all our lives. g .. .. .. ~' that is really important for all our lives. g .. .. .. ,, , .. that is really important for all our lives. g .. .. , .. ., lives. 0k, joe, in stoke, you are slightly- -- _ lives. 0k, joe, in stoke, you are slightly... ma — lives. 0k, joe, in stoke, you are slightly... did you _ lives. 0k, joe, in stoke, you are slightly... did you have - lives. 0k, joe, in stoke, you are slightly... did you have here - lives. 0k, joe, in stoke, you are slightly... did you have here the argument from malcolm clarke, we have to do something, this is a very good way of doing it? i have to do something, this is a very good way of doing it?— good way of doing it? i disagree because i good way of doing it? i disagree because i am — good way of doing it? i disagree because i am working _ good way of doing it? i disagree because i am working class - good way of doing it? i disagree because i am working class and | good way of doing it? i disagree - because i am working class and proud of it and this i feel is yet again

another working class hitting stunt. stopping smoking in pubs, it killed the pub trade. we are being told... we need to ban smoking. are we going to start doing this with alcohol? because a lot of people are dying and having alcohol—related disease in the nhs. are we going to start with alcohol? where does it stop? i certainly don't feel in this day and age a government should be telling me as an adult what i can do with my body? it is my body, my father nor smoke from when he was 11 and had cancer and he died of cancer but it did not stop him smoking —— my father—in—law. he carried on smoking until the day he died. therein you

have your personal responsibility. as an adult, when i turned 18, i was told that i was able to do the things that i couldn't do as a child, drinking, smoking, whatever. i don't smoke, i vape. i don't drink. i have the odd tipple. now and again. drink. i have the odd tipple. now and aaain. . .. drink. i have the odd tipple. now and again-— drink. i have the odd tipple. now and aain. . .. _, , . and again. this, for you, is a bunch of metropolitan _ and again. this, for you, is a bunch of metropolitan do-gooders - and again. this, for you, is a bunch of metropolitan do-gooders taking | of metropolitan do—gooders taking away a pleasure for many ordinary people like yourself. nina, glasgow, you are in the camp ofjo. speak to me, good morning. ithink we you are in the camp ofjo. speak to me, good morning. i think we have a better line. we haven't got a better line. answer that question, malcolm clarke, byjo in stoke—on—trent. malcolm clarke, she is annoyed, jo says it is her personal pleasure and personal choice to do whatever she

wants to do to her body. i get personal choice to do whatever she wants to do to her body. i get that, and i wants to do to her body. i get that, and l accept — wants to do to her body. i get that, and i accept for _ wants to do to her body. i get that, and i accept for some _ wants to do to her body. i get that, and i accept for some people... - and i accept for some people... people — and i accept for some people... people have grown up and got used to smoking _ people have grown up and got used to smoking it _ people have grown up and got used to smoking. it is something that is available — smoking. it is something that is available. it smoking. it is something that is available. .. , smoking. it is something that is available. .. . .. smoking. it is something that is available. .. , .. ., smoking. it is something that is i available._ she available. it does not mean... she en'o s it. available. it does not mean... she enjoys it- it _ available. it does not mean... she enjoys it. it does _ available. it does not mean... she enjoys it. it does not _ available. it does not mean... she enjoys it. it does not mean - available. it does not mean... she enjoys it. it does not mean there i enjoys it. it does not mean there are not— enjoys it. it does not mean there are not bad — enjoys it. it does not mean there are not bad impacts. we know smoking costs the _ are not bad impacts. we know smoking costs the average person almost £2000~~ — costs the average person almost £2000... ll costs the average person almost £2000... , ., y ., £2000... it is their money, not ours. £2000... it is their money, not yours- what— £2000... it is their money, not yours- what we _ £2000... it is their money, not yours. what we know _ £2000... it is their money, not yours. what we know is... - £2000... it is their money, not yours. what we know is... let l £2000. .. it is their money, not i yours. what we know is... let her send yours. what we know is... let her 5pend her— yours. what we know is... let her spend her money _ yours. what we know is... let her spend her money how _ yours. what we know is... let her spend her money how she - yours. what we know is... let her spend her money how she wants l yours. what we know is... let her. spend her money how she wants to. but then we complain about it. people's — but then we complain about it. people's lives... _ but then we complain about it. people's lives... we _ but then we complain about it. people's lives... we have - but then we complain about it. people's lives... we have got i but then we complain about it. i people's lives... we have got an addiction — people's lives... we have got an addiction that for the majority of people. — addiction that for the majority of people, they do want to quit. the government has quite rightly said we need to— government has quite rightly said we need to do— government has quite rightly said we need to do more to help support those _ need to do more to help support those people who want to quit to quit and — those people who want to quit to quit and support people along the journey _

quit and support people along the “ourne . . .. quit and support people along the “ourne . .. .. ., ,. journey. 0k, simon clark, come in. it is journey. 0k, simon clark, come in. it is hilarious _ journey. 0k, simon clark, come in. it is hilarious listening _ journey. 0k, simon clark, come in. it is hilarious listening to _ journey. 0k, simon clark, come in. it is hilarious listening to malcolm i it is hilarious listening to malcolm telling people how they should spend their own money. if people choose to spend money on tobacco, it is a matterfor spend money on tobacco, it is a matter for them spend money on tobacco, it is a matterfor them as spend money on tobacco, it is a matter for them as adults. how dare he tell people, you shouldn't spend your money on tobacco? the ludicrous situation we have got. i totally agree with everything jo said. if it is a war on working class people, today smoking is mostly a working class habit, we have middle—class do—gooders, as you call them, nicky, telling people how to live this perfect life. the reality is, smoking is a convert for a great many people, a pleasure as well —— smoking is a comfort. they know the health risks, people are not stupid, we have had so many anti—smoking measures introduced in the last 20 years which have not had a huge impact on smoking rates. the smoking ban did not have much effect. the biggest impact of the last ten, 12 years has been e—cigarettes. smokers

who want to quit have voluntarily switched to another reduced risk nicotine project they enjoy and they have chosen to do that and that is what the government needs to do, continue educating people about the health risks of smoking, encourage people to switch to a reduced risk form of nicotine. fin people to switch to a reduced risk form of nicotine.— people to switch to a reduced risk form of nicotine. on the other hand, sarah in doncaster, _ form of nicotine. on the other hand, sarah in doncaster, you _ form of nicotine. on the other hand, sarah in doncaster, you love - form of nicotine. on the other hand, sarah in doncaster, you love this - sarah in doncaster, you love this idea, why? sarah in doncaster, you love this idea. why?— sarah in doncaster, you love this idea, why? basically... i have my ersonal idea, why? basically... i have my personal reasons _ idea, why? basically... i have my personal reasons why _ idea, why? basically... i have my personal reasons why i _ idea, why? basically... i have my personal reasons why i dislike - personal reasons why i dislike smoking _ personal reasons why i dislike smoking. when i was at university, i tried a _ smoking. when i was at university, i tried a couple of cigarettes, i thought. _ tried a couple of cigarettes, i thought, i don't know why anyone would _ thought, i don't know why anyone would do — thought, i don't know why anyone would do this, tastes disgusting. if you kiss _ would do this, tastes disgusting. if you kiss anyone who smokes, for me, not an— you kiss anyone who smokes, for me, not an enjoyable experience. but my grandad _ not an enjoyable experience. but my grandad died two months before my young _ grandad died two months before my young sister was born, which was massively— young sister was born, which was massively traumatic... traumatic

when _ massively traumatic... traumatic when you — massively traumatic... traumatic when you lose anyone. it was massively _ when you lose anyone. it was massively traumatic for my mum who was seven— massively traumatic for my mum who was seven months pregnant. he had smoked _ was seven months pregnant. he had smoked for— was seven months pregnant. he had smoked for his life, he died of lung cancer _ smoked for his life, he died of lung cancer but— smoked for his life, he died of lung cancer but i— smoked for his life, he died of lung cancer. but i really... what this chap _ cancer. but i really... what this chap is — cancer. but i really... what this chap is saying about how we need to educate _ chap is saying about how we need to educate people on more safer choices of getting _ educate people on more safer choices of getting nicotine into the system, yes, brilliant. if it is a way of getting — yes, brilliant. if it is a way of getting nicotine into the system without— getting nicotine into the system without actually negatively affecting the rest of the body, yes, great~ _ affecting the rest of the body, yes, great is _ affecting the rest of the body, yes, areat. . . , , .. affecting the rest of the body, yes, reat. , , , , ., ., great. is this the best way to go about it, rishi— great. is this the best way to go about it, rishi sunak's - about it, rishi sunak's announcement? how do we stop people smoking, save in the long term all of the money? how do we save people? some people might say it is paternalistic to saving them from themselves. you like the idea, should we go further?- themselves. you like the idea, should we go further? yeah, i think we should because, _ should we go further? yeah, i think we should because, i _ should we go further? yeah, i think

we should because, i mean, - should we go further? yeah, i think we should because, i mean, i - should we go further? yeah, i think we should because, i mean, i have| we should because, i mean, i have seen~~~ _ we should because, i mean, i have seen~~~ it— we should because, i mean, i have seen~~~ it is— we should because, i mean, i have seen... it is quite shocking when you see — seen... it is quite shocking when you see them. you see kids ten and 12 years _ you see them. you see kids ten and 12 years old. — you see them. you see kids ten and 12 years old, they are not vaping, they— 12 years old, they are not vaping, they have — 12 years old, they are not vaping, they have a — 12 years old, they are not vaping, they have a cigarette in their hands. — they have a cigarette in their hands, you're thinking, you're not old enough to be making that choice about _ old enough to be making that choice about something that addictive. it really— about something that addictive. it really shocks me. can i come in? | really shocks me. can i come in? i know really shocks me. can i come in? know what really shocks me. can i come in? i know what you are so exercised about this, simon, £1 billion was wiped off the share price for big tobacco companies... i off the share price for big tobacco companies- - -_ off the share price for big tobacco companies... i do not work for the tobacco industry, _ companies... i do not work for the tobacco industry, pretty _ companies... i do not work for the i tobacco industry, pretty outrageous thin- tobacco industry, pretty outrageous thing to— tobacco industry, pretty outrageous thing to say. fire tobacco industry, pretty outrageous thing to say-— thing to say. are you not funded by them? yes. _ thing to say. are you not funded by them? yes. we _ thing to say. are you not funded by them? yes, we received _ thing to say. are you not funded by| them? yes, we received donations. why would — them? yes, we received donations. why would i — them? yes, we received donations. why would i be _ them? yes, we received donations. why would i be interested - them? yes, we received donations. why would i be interested in - them? yes, we received donations. why would i be interested in the . why would i be interested in the share _ why would i be interested in the share price? just why would i be interested in the share price?— why would i be interested in the share rice? . .. ., .. share price? just throwing that one in. pre share price? just throwing that one in- pretty below — share price? just throwing that one in. pretty below the _ share price? just throwing that one in. pretty below the belt, - share price? just throwing that one in. pretty below the belt, frankly. i in. pretty below the belt, frankly. you want to _ in. pretty below the belt, frankly. you want to have _ in. pretty below the belt, frankly. you want to have a _ in. pretty below the belt, frankly. you want to have a serious - you want to have a serious conversation about the actual issues or do— conversation about the actual issues or do you _ conversation about the actual issues or do you want to throw out comments about— or do you want to throw out comments about the _ or do you want to throw out comments about the share price of the tobacco companies — about the share price of the tobacco companies which have nothing to do

with me _ companies which have nothing to do with me whatsoever? it is hilarious to listen— with me whatsoever? it is hilarious to listen to — with me whatsoever? it is hilarious to listen to you, nicky, adding people — to listen to you, nicky, adding people on— to listen to you, nicky, adding people on to say, should we go further? — people on to say, should we go further? pretty draconian policy being _ further? pretty draconian policy being introduced by the government, banning _ being introduced by the government, banning young generations of adults from buying cigarettes. and you are saying _ from buying cigarettes. and you are saying to _ from buying cigarettes. and you are saying to people, should we go further? — saying to people, should we go further? what do we want? do we want a situation _ further? what do we want? do we want a situation where we have complete prohibition— a situation where we have complete prohibition of cigarettes and tobacco? and a massive black market _ tobacco? and a massive black market... terminal gangs. | tobacco? and a massive black market... terminal gangs. i think ou market... terminal gangs. i think you missed _ market... terminal gangs. i think you missed something _ market... terminal gangs. i think you missed something -- - market... terminal gangs. i think| you missed something -- criminal you missed something —— criminal gangs. i said, you missed something —— criminal gangs. isaid, should you missed something —— criminal gangs. i said, should we go further? to other people i said, isn't this utterly ludicrous? it is myjob. being fair, that is. utterly ludicrous? it is my “ob. being fair, that isi utterly ludicrous? it is my “ob. being fair, that is. you have been a little bit selective, _ being fair, that is. you have been a little bit selective, simon. - being fair, that is. you have been a little bit selective, simon. i- being fair, that is. you have been a little bit selective, simon. i think. little bit selective, simon. i think it is interesting _ little bit selective, simon. i think it is interesting are _ little bit selective, simon. i think it is interesting are not _ little bit selective, simon. i think it is interesting are notjust - little bit selective, simon. i think it is interesting are not just this i it is interesting are notjust this programme, other programmes i have been listening to this morning, people — been listening to this morning, people saying the same thing, should we go _ people saying the same thing, should we go even _ people saying the same thing, should

we go even further? this is why the country— we go even further? this is why the country is _ we go even further? this is why the country is in — we go even further? this is why the country is in such a mess on issues like this. _ country is in such a mess on issues like this. it — country is in such a mess on issues like this. it is — country is in such a mess on issues like this, it is never enough. the public— like this, it is never enough. the public health lobby, massively funded. — public health lobby, massively funded, never satisfied, always looking — funded, never satisfied, always looking for what they call the next logical— looking for what they call the next logical step. tomorrow it will be alcohol. — logical step. tomorrow it will be alcohol, your dram, nicky, things other— alcohol, your dram, nicky, things other people get pleasure from, that is the _ other people get pleasure from, that is the ludicrous world we are creating _ is the ludicrous world we are creating here.— is the ludicrous world we are creating here. is the ludicrous world we are creatin: here. , .. , creating here. loads of texts coming in. let me creating here. loads of texts coming in- let me do _ creating here. loads of texts coming in- let me do a _ creating here. loads of texts coming in. let me do a couple _ creating here. loads of texts coming in. let me do a couple for _ creating here. loads of texts coming in. let me do a couple for you. - in. let me do a couple for you. karima, previous caller, what a legend, smokers in denial about the dangers, finally seeing a government with teeth. this one, must be a vape donating to the company. they will go into drugs and vapes if you ban smoking. the smoking ban will have the opposite effect because when you tell someone they cannot do something, they want to do it more.

it will become more appealing to teenagers and all the business will be handed to the black market. prohibition does not work. we have been shown time and time again. for example, american states, legalised cannabis, the age of first use has increased as it is no longer a rebellious thing to do. that is from graham in northumberland. this one here, apologies for reading it out, those on the other sides of the argument, once again do—gooders sticking theirfat argument, once again do—gooders sticking their fat unwanted noses into other people's business. a phrase used in early one i think as well. what about drinking, says this one? drinking would also be banned if invented today. thank you, massive this morning. my thanks to everybody for taking part, viewers of bbc two and bbc news leave us now.

live from london, this is bbc news. leaders of almost 50 european countries are in spain for a summit of the european political community with the russian invasion of ukraine top of the agenda. also at the summit, rishi sunak will call for more co—ordinated action to address the number of migrants arriving in europe. we have a special report from inside nagorno—karabakh, as azerbaijan's president cancels planned talks with the armenian prime minister.

this was the front line with the armenian rebels holding this ridgeline overlooking their city down there in the valley. and, the men's cricket world cup is underway with england taking on new zealand in the opening game. hello, you are watching bbc news. ukraine's president zelensky has arrived in the spanish city of granada, where forty seven eu and non—eu leaders are gathered for a summit. ukraine is on the agenda and so is the nagorno—karabakh conflict. there had been hopes of peace talks but azerbaijan has boycotted the meeting, complaining of pro—armenian bias. migration is the other big topic up for discussion. prime minister rishi sunak is on his way — he wants more action on illegal migration and he'll ask for what he calls "creative europe—wide solutions".

he'll co—chair a meeting with georgia meloni,